Enzo explains choosing the right brake pedal force and pressure
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มี.ค. 2020
- In this episode Enzo explains how to setup your brake pedal force and pedal travel so it suits the car you're driving in your simulator. In the video we're using our Sim Pedals Ultimate because of the large range of brake forces this pedal can handle (up to 136kg, measured at the pedal plate).
The same concept to modify brake force and travel is also used on our Sim Pedals Sprint, except there is a maximum brake force of 65kg on those pedals.
Heusinkveld products used by Enzo in this video:
Sim Pedals Ultimate - heusinkveld.com/products/sim-...
Sim Rig GT - heusinkveld.com/products/sim-... - เกม
Had my Ultimate+ for a few weeks. I settled in on soft factory set up with 45kg. 65 felt good but i found it a bit too fatiguing over longer drives. Works good allaround for all the different cars ive tried. Nice middle of the road set up.
Nice video on how to adjust them to your likings. However I am wondering what are your thoughts and recommendations when it comes to competitiveness? I own the Sprint pedals and really love them. I exclusively use them in iRacing, more specifically in the Porsche 911 Cup car and the Porsche 911 RSR GTE. I started with the default rubber installed (xl), which was already a big improvement to my previous potentiometer pedals. But recently I have switched to a harder setting (m) which made it even better for me. I'm considering going to the stiffest setting (s) and cranking the preload to its maximum to eliminate the initial travel. Would you recommend that? I'm not racing in real life and I don't have that ambition, so for me it's purely about being competitive in iRacing. Thanks and keep up the good work!
We cannot give a recommendation unfortunately. There are just so many people out there with their own preferences and so many cars with so many differences with the feel in the brakes. Just make sure you tried different settings on different cars and look where you are fastest with. If you want to be competitive make sure you find a nice balance between feel and not pressing to much kilo's. If you press too much and your competition does not, you might be the one getting tired before your competition.
A heads up for Sprint owners: if you install multiple of the softest/thickest rubbers, there will be a "delay" in the 'final compressed state' of the rubbers when braking. In other words, if you apply a static force on the pedal with your foot and observe the input level in the HE software, you will notice an initial high input that will then significantly decrease over the next couple of seconds as the soft/thick rubbers slowly continue to compress slightly under the static load, thus consequently lowering the load on the load cell. It's like an unintended trail braking effect that you won't discover unless you observe the input graph, since you keep a static force with your foot. The way I've gotten around this in order to get the softer feel/longer travel I like, is to install the 3 hardest rubbers. Then there's no significant delayed compression effect. The only issue with that setup is that there's not enough spacers included in the kit, so I choose to run the hardest rubber just directly against the preload nut. I don't see any big issues with that since the hardest/thinnest rubber doesn't compress much, but never the less an additional spacer, given that this configuration is possible, would have been appreciated. Besides this afaik unmentioned, curious phenomena (which I became aware of by luck) I'm very happy with the performance of the pedals! 😊👍
Kristoffer Lindgren I think you have answered some of my issue. I’ve seen on my traces for eg. a 80% initial force then a immediate drop of 5% pressure, which I can hold. Unless I apply the brake at a slightly slower rate. There’s always a 5% drop off in pressure. So I’ll try a firmer 3rd rubber. Thanks for the heads up.
Do you really mean the brake gets softer with the hardest rubber?
@@kezman82a no. What I'm saying is that I'm getting around the delayed compression issue by using 3 of the hardest rubbers instead of 2 of the softer. It adds up to about the same amount of total rubber, but without getting the delayed compression that the larger/softer rubbers produce.
@@Krilin84 got it! 😁
might could use soft Die Spring to eliminate this issue
Hi Enzo, great video ! what settings would you use for the dallara P217 ?
Any luck on getting answer and if not what did you settle on?
@@MiserableRacer Hey, I personally use two green rubbers and about 90KG's with the Ultimate pedals for the Dallara P217 in iRacing
Great Video but I have some questions. What do you mean by N kg of brake pressure? Is it just the calculation that the load cell of the Ultimate brake can take up to 200 kg and you use just n% of it's range or is it the actual pressure on the pedal? Second question is about the travel. Do real race cars have that much travel on the brake pedal? I thought I have heard that they have very little pressure.
It's the actual pressure the load cell can take. It totally depends on the race car how far the travel is. And nowadays also personal preferences. In some cars a lot of things can be adjusted.
Can you do one for he pedals and rf2
What are you looking or feeling for when adjusting Brake Pre-load? I took the brake apart just to adjust the angle and not sure if I put the preload back to where it was originally.
Been a long time, but hopefully you will read this. I just set it to where there is no "slack" in the pedal. So tighten the preload up right to where it meets the top plastic bit on the rubber closest to the pedal face. That, in my opinion, is the correct preload.
It's true to varying degrees that the momentum of breaking is used by the breaking foot for much of the pressure needed, for example, in F1 the driver's momentum adds I think 90 pounds of force. That's very different in a chair that has no such momentum, momentum that can be felt and adjusted to while breaking, offering an additional, visceral dimension of sensitivity of force on the break pedal. Left entirely to the leg muscle without any fully body adjustments to refine the sensitivity make similar forces for a sim pedal less than ideal, I would imagine, at least for myself, I cannot yet feel delicately while slamming with full force into the pedal.
There are a lot of discussion out there about if there is a momentum or not and if there is, how much it is. One thing to remember is that in a race car a driver is strapped very tight. So this momentum can only be achieved by the weight of the leg. And the moment of max braking force is very short. A driver only presses the 130+ kilo's on a brake in an F1 car for maybe 3 tenth of a second max. It's a hard push and then gently releasing the force on the brake.
I think it's not so much about "momentum", but about the setting. When you're on a real race track and in a real car experiencing all kinds of G forces, it feels natural to kick the brake pedal with full force. Not so much in your living room in a stationary position.
He sprints the stock rubbers that come on the pedal what class is it I haven’t changed mine yet
Read the manual
@@CertifiedSlamboy thanks Karen lol
👍
Hi Enzo , what about f12021 setup for brake and throttle , what is optimal??
Hello HD,
There is no one right answer on what is optimal, as this all comes down to personal preference! If you want to realistically simulate a modern F1 car, using one or two green rubbers, with at least 110kg on the brake pedal would be good suggestion!
Best regards,
Enzo
@@HeusinkveldEngineering my bad I did not tell you I have sprints , guess those green ones would be medium + h
It would be more similar to installing a single S or M rubber!
@@HeusinkveldEngineering tnx for info
@@HeusinkveldEngineering i understand having those heavy brakes could be realsitc but also when u brake in real life you get the slowing down g forces which helps in allowing ur foot to put more strength into braking which u dont get at home so it makes it easier/ and less strength to press the brake in a real f1 car , am i wrong?
I think I've made the mistake of trying to replicate the brake pedal stiffness and pressure to what I'm used to with my road car, the heavy and stiff brake pedal on default just caught me out and instead of trying to get used to that I immediately lowered everything with way more travel. I've been driving all types of cars this way in sim racing with the road pedal feel. Will I have lost a bunch of time doing that you reckon? And should I practice to get used to a harder/ stiffer pedal with less travel in order to get faster? I'm thinking the answer is yes, but I'd like your expert opinions :p
No, actually that's quite wrong. You will get most by not switching that depending on the car. How do I know? I do change it based on the car category for my pedals and it feels very different - with this you need to get used to that - so you lose a week or two to getting adjusted. That's why it's so hard for me to chase people who race everything with the same pedal feel - you are most comfortable with the one you are most used to - but this is the difference between real world drivers and sim racers, sim racers are just used to mostly their one favorite setting and rarely switch, real world drivers have driven various cars and are used to having to adjust do different cars. So the choice is whether you want it more realistic or do you want better lap times. And as for the overall setting, something in the middle is probably give you the best overall results if you switch often, otherwise you can choose the setting for the category which you race for the most time.
@@arcelivez True I've just left it as is in the end haha
@@misterdog7 I think arcelivez is correct.
Sims basically allow you to generate as much braking efficiency with whatever hardware you have, so moving to a more accurate brake force will just cost you lap time while you're re-training your muscle memory.
That said, in the video, Enzo mentioned that it's almost impossible to effectively modulate your brake pressure with a very soft pedal (30-35kg), so with that in mind, although you'll need to spend some time adapting, you'll probably be able to trail brake more effectively with a stiffer brake.
@@arcelivez You are right keep changing is pointless but i disagree on not changing. The OP wants to know if he should have a stuffer pedal not if he should keep changing it.
I was like you and had pedal travel like my real car but over the past 6 months ive changed to one with a tiny bit of travel around 15mm to 20mm 1 to 2cm then its rovk hard and my lap times have improved and my consistency have gone up dramatically. My wieght transfer it much much better and I'm trail braking like a pro.
When you have too much travel in the pedal you have too learn muscle memory with distance memory which without looking at the pedal is extremely hard to do consistently if possible at all when your talking 100s of a second, i have mine set up so in Iracing when i press the pedal to its max travel you hear the cars brakes Squeaking then it has a very tiny bit more travel then its all pressure based no move movement or what there is isnt noticeable too the human eye and imo that is how it works in a real race car. The travel is the brake pads moving too the brake disk then you get a tiny bit more travel which i believe is the brake fluid compressing completely then the pads are being pressed again the disk as hard as you press.
Trust me @mister dog just try it.
@@theoldhenk7531 agreed. Keep changing is stupid. Just set it hard with little travel then just adjust it in game software using the brake force too get it to your liking.
Can these elastomers be put in the Sprints?
Which would be the closest set up to a rally car?
Its Write in the manual...
i still dont understand how measure the kg how do we no which kg we are using?
You don't need to measure it if you have the rubber that he has, but if you wanna measure you could use your scale, put a piece of flat wood the size of the scale on the feet of the scale and push on the pedal with the wood touching the pedal and your hand touching the scale. But it's all about feel, how you want your pedals to feel, you don't need to know the exact force being applied
Hi, this is explained in the manual for the Ultimate pedals. Every 25 RAW steps on the Ultimate brake pedal is roughly 1 KG.
@@EnzoFazzi the manual explain the old version of board v1 and 2 not v3 which is way different resolution from the old board so is totally different
@@AccuracyGaming the V3 controller is a 12 bit controller just like the V1.
@@EnzoFazzi they are different resolution reading .
Out of Stock!!! When will the sprint pedals be in stock???
Enzo, I notice you extend your leg with knee and ankle extension to press the brake.
For modulation, you seem to lock your ankle and modulate with your knee and hardly with your ankle.
Is this just preference or other reasons?
I know with me when I set mine to 50 kg... no way I could use my ankle to press the brakes.. I'm definitely using almost all knee and leg for braking
That’s how race cars drivers do it they use their full leg muscles with their ankle locked, and formula drivers literally use their body weight when their getting push toward by the g forces from the braking zones
Edit: Meant forward not toward.
@@Pradozj22 they don't. They are strapped solid to the seat, which is static in relation to the pedal, so their body doesn't come into it. Only their leg will "weigh more" due to the g force produced on it by deceleration.
ravey1981 right more like that, thx.
So if I race gt3 cars in ACC and fórmula cars in IRacing and F1 games then I need to change the rubber back and forth if I want to have the realistic feeling for each type of cars and recalibrate everything. 🤔😔. Hmmm, there is no easier way?
just play with the brake force in the smart control software it’s enough imo!
hi, try to find compromise :
good feeling pedal and adjust braking force increasing in control panel
simracing is all about compromise and a muscle memory...
i think it's not really recommended changing every time
just my opinion
AMS + Heusinkveld Pedals = bliss.
I have this issue in Iracing where i can’t brake as late as others do, meaning i have to brake earlier to be able to make the turn, so i’m always getting outbraked, how the heck is it possible to NOT have the same amount of brake power to brake at the same braking points as others? (it’s not brake bias of the car) is purely brake power
If it's a spec series then they're just better at finding the right amount of pressure quickly and accurately than you are, faster reaction time and more precise, also they might very well be on the edge of grip but know how to balance it better. If it's not a spec then it could be a combination of that + a setup that can handle higher levels of braking vs. your setup. Practice is the key...time and experience.
johndough247 It’s pretty much the same in all the series i race (skip, F3, VRS Sprint), I’m precisely always 2-3 sec slower then fastest lap times. Is it possible that the signal got interference from another source? But you’re right pratice IS the key! And hot tires!
Mmm, should a gt3 spec car not have about 80-85 kg brake pressure instead of the proposed 40-50 kg's? I am pretty sure both the gt3 cars as well as v8 supercars have around that amount of pressure.
If you have actual 'proof'of the amount of kg's on certain race cars. Please let us know. We love to have this information :) There are so many racecars out there in so many years our guess is that it differs a lot. But these are the kg's reported back to us from some of the driver's we are in contact with.
@@HeusinkveldEngineering I mainly base my 80 kg estimation on online articles/forums and Rfactor2's brake pressure numbers. In these 2 articles for instance they are talking about 70 -100 kg for v8 supercars if you search for 'kg':
www.supercars.com/news/championship/the-longest-seven-seconds-of-jones-life/
www.highlineactive.com.au/post/2016/10/02/physio-and-v8-supercars
Furthermore, if you select (certain) cars in Rfactor 2 > then advances > max pedal force, you will see 70 - 90 kg's for most GT cars, including GT3 cars.
Are the pedals compatible with xbox
Using a drivehub yes
yes but : imo three rubber is better even for gt3
nissan gt3 pedal travel : th-cam.com/video/X-d0KwgZghE/w-d-xo.html
v8 supercar : th-cam.com/video/qdWSyrqEnE4/w-d-xo.html
Thnx for the links. Always nice to watch! There is not a one solution fits all. Different brand of car, different year or the start or the end of the race. If you look at this Porsche GT3R from 2015 there is a shorter travel than in your examples (th-cam.com/video/KERipgTmwFw/w-d-xo.html). Messing around with different travel distances in different cars can be rewarding for your laptimes or consistancy.
Meanwhile clowns on reddit and other forums claim that realistic setup is 100kg of resistance for GT3 cars and literally zero travel.
Hello Lukáš, in real racing cars you'll indeed find a wide variety of brake pedal behaviour. Some are soft, some are rock hard (F3 is a good example), some are in the middle. Even for GT3 cars you'll find various setups in real life. We'd like to develop our pedals in such a way that you can simulate any kind of real race car with them.
Best regards,
your HEUSINKVELD Team
@@HeusinkveldEngineering Thanks for your answer. What about gas pedal? What is the force required to press Heusinkveld gas pedal to 100%?
Hello Lukáš,
Thanks for your question.
You can find more information about our Sim Pedals Sprint and Sim Pedals Ultimate+ on the product pages on our website:
heusinkveld.com/shop/sim-pedals/sim-pedals-sprint/
heusinkveld.com/shop/sim-pedals/sim-pedals-ultimate-plus/
Or at the support page of our website:
heusinkveld.com/support/product-manuals/
For further questions, you can always reach out to our customer support email:
support@heusinkveld.com
Best regards,
your HEUSINKVELD Team
Huesinkveld i know you can do it. We need a brake pedal where you can change how strong it feels in software l i know wishful thinking but how cool would it be if games could then implement that into there games so the brake pedal swts it stiffness to match the car your driving but still give you the option too adjust if you want too.
BY THE WAY IF YOU BRING THIS OUT I WOULD BE GREATFUL FOR A FREE SET FOR ME AND MY COUSIN AND A NICE DRINK 🤣🤣
love all my HE gear and all working like the day i brought them so thank you.
I know it is called "simulation" but I would argue, that replicating real-world braking forces in your living room is pointless. Anything more than 25 kg is overkill and actually makes you slower.
Hello gabox01,
Thanks for your comment.
The optimal pedal feel is highly subjective, even for world class drivers. We are aware of real world F1 drivers who indeed set their pedal very soft when they're simracing. On the other hand, we also know world class simracers (absolutely top level) who race with brake pedal forces of around 60-80kg. A trained leg can push a lot of force :)
Best regards,
Your HEUSINKVELD Team.
Jeez how the heck can you apply 40Kg on the pedals, i own the sprints and if i put 40kg i can’t achieve 100% unless i use both legs!
Train on your legs
We need to press 100 kg in race cars 😂
A race car maybe but in front on a standing pc my girly legs should be fine! lol
What do you weigh? You should be able to press 40 kg with your right leg if you are healthy and able to get up from the couch without assistance ;)
Now, if you want to do this 15 times every 90 seconds (depending on track and laptime) is another question.
@@silviutudorescu8114 Sorry to hear that, of course you could also try a setting with lower force, more like a street car brake.
In any case, have fun with your hobbies is the first prio for them!
I still totally don't understand this at all. Why on earth would you want your pedals to be that hard to press? I'd much more prefer the brake to be as light as the throttle or clutch, which makes it a lot easier to depress as well as to control how far/ deep you depress it. Makes no sense to me to have a hugely stiff brake pedal on my sim (unless you're actually used to having a very heavy brake due to racing for real perhaps?).
Modulation. The idea is that, if you have a higher initial setting on the load cell, then it's easier for you to lift exactly the amount you want. Suppose you're braking at the limit of grip for the car you're driving, and need to let up by 5% - easing off the brake from 20kg to 19kg is easier for you to control than easing from 5kg to 4.75kg.
@Delta Lima Hey, our pedals use loadcells, which means they're force based pedals. For the brake pedal, this means that your digital output (what the game sees), is based on how hard you press on the pedal, not how far the pedal travels. The different rubbers allow you to set a certain amount of travel for a given amount of force. This means that a higher KG setting will essentially give you a bigger range to modulate. A reason to go for a stiffer pedal (less travel) is that it helps getting to max. brake pressure faster.
Those explanations really made it a lot clearer for me. Thanks!