Rethinking Minecraft's Food System
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2024
- Minecraft has a lot of foods, but the player only needs to care about a few. But how do we improve this system without making it too complex? I've developed a mod to do just that.
Mindful Eating:
www.curseforge.com/minecraft/...
Abnormals: teamabnormals.com/
Patreon: / minecraftabnormals
Discord: / discord
Twitter: / camcamburger
0:00 Introduction
1:16 Mechanics
2:21 Implementation
4:41 Balancing
6:18 Playtesting
7:34 User experience
9:42 Conclusion
I would say simply adding an enchantment glint to the hunger bar would invoke the feeling of strength and refinement and would be really great positive reinforcement as enchantments are already associated with those exact attributes... it'd also honestly be pleasing to look at which does help a lot
Ooh that's a good idea!
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy Woohoo,new video!And new icon aswell!How many times did you change it by now?I think the old one with the creeperface was better.
Since I'm not likely to achieve a lot of my dreams,so I can only imagine...but my thought was to make a mod that adds a stamina bar to make player actions more dynamic.
And also a 2nd mod that retrofits the entire HUD.Like instead of 10 hearts,it'll be 3 with a number next to it,that'll change to green if poisoned & ??? when withered for example.And apply that to XP, hunger,stamina & the armor bar.
Maybe a 3rd mod that increases the number of hearts after certain achievements,to make progress feel more rewarding...like +2 permanent armor after killing Enderdragon.Or increased airbubbles for finding a Sea monument.
I only changed it once. I miss the creeper too :P
Stamina bar was outside my scope, and mods have probably done it already. Also I think the lack of numbers makes it easier to tell how much health you have etc at a glance, which is less annoying than having to read it every time especially when in the middle of something.
And I don't think new abilities are very Minecrafty. In Minecraft Dungeons, all the powers come from your items so you can swap them out at any time.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy You know the "how did we get here?" achievement? All it is,is a novelty for completing a convoluted task.Getting 2 extra permanent hearts from it would be a decent idea,especially when other mods give you powerful abilities for little cost.Atleast that is how I thought of it.
It is supposed to be a novelty. It's about the journey, not the destination. That way people only do it if they feel like it.
Instead of a shin, I would deffinetly try to replicate the "bouncy" animation things like the golden Apple have. Using a visual language that MC players are allready familiar with
The Regeneration one? Can't believe I didn't think of that lol
hunger effect has the same if im correct, not sure
i mean when you're starving they jump around, so its a negative thing
@@peppermint5117 the hunger effect causes the ham to shake occasionally, as opposed to a wave from one end
@@peppermint5117 that's only for when they shake, which is also shown on the health bar when you are at 2 hearts or lower
@@huskitroop748 there's also a slight shake if your saturation is 0
My initial reaction to eating the carrot:
First I thought the icons were green feathers that implied a connection between vegetables and movement.
Then the sheen. It moving from right to left implied a kind of 'regeneration effect' to me. But since your hunger wasn't going up or down, I read it as "In this state, movement doesnt cost hunger"
I thought the sheen is the saturation, but that's only because I've seen lots of mods use the saturation as a yellow outline on the hunger bar.
@@tomsterbg8130 same
The big problem that they absolutely need to change at some point is just the hunger bar degradation speed. Especially with the CAC update, I'm sick of having to eat a whole cow every time I climb a relatively small mountain or hill. The inconsistency also needs to be fixed. Sometimes you can go several minutes of activity without needing to eat. Other times you lose half a hunger point with every other jump. It's so weird and makes it hard to gauge how much food to bring with you sometimes.
Honestly, a full update of food needs to be done. I want complex food and cooking like Farmer’s Delight and a damn good reason to do it outside of being a gourmand. Having complex food give you more saturation than just the full hunger bar could work wonders (where you’re basically sacrificing multiple meal’s worth of food to make a single meal) so it lasts way longer. Nutrition would also be a welcomed change since it would give a reason to have multiple sources of food!
Also I just want to make an oyakodon with sliced green onions! Seriously, hire/contract the guys who did Farmer’s delight!
food + end update would be lit
@@jemm113 There's no need to add a complex mechanic to a game that's founded on simple on the surface level but complex if you want to get into the nitty gritty of it. Besides, food is already enough of a hassle as it is that having to invest more time into a specific mechanic would just be frustrating. Just nerf things like saturation given by steak and buff saturation given by hard to craft items like Pumpkin Pie or any of the Soups, along with tweaking the numbers of saturation and food spent by doing certain activities (Sprint and Sprint Jumping, for example, should probably cost less resources given just how much more important travelling has gotten in Minecraft with each update)
@@thesilentrookie7715 while I can appreciate simplicity, people WANT complex food. And the best way to do that is by making the more complex, hence the deeper system, more complex with things like extra effects. The base system of making bread and simple steaks can stay, but layers can be added.
Adding more food sources is simple, you can just choose which vegetable or grain you want to grow or is available. Complexity can be added by way of more crafting recipes and crafting blocks that can also be purely decorative to other players.
Addendum: the nutrition mechanics aren’t necessary for any of this, but I would find it fun to be a mechanic you can toggle on world gen (also a toggle for complex or simple food source generation) and funny to be required for hardcore (or its own mode of superhardcore).
@@jemm113food and farming update
Enchantments and XP update
Atmospheric update (background sounds, wind, waving leaves and water, improved tree and overworld terrain generation)
End update
I think everyone's impression of the flashing is because, in UI design, flashing elements are used to draw the player's attention and direct their eye to a specific piece of information. This is almost always negative, so players interpret it as some kind of warning.
The easiest way to change this would be to portray it as passive, shining when the player is idle like you theorized, much slower, and always progressing to terminate at the end of its loop, rather than abruptly in the middle of the bar when the player's activity state changes.
Another approach could be to actually turn it into a warning, flashing when the player performs an activity that will drain hunger normally, and leaving it dull during actions with drain slowed by the active food type.
The way the UI behaves is a very important part of how the player can intuit or understand what's going on, consciously or not.
Yeah, it's been fun to experiement with. I've learnt a bit about UX design at uni so understanding these impressions is key
Exactly.
I actually think the yellow flash works here because yellow is already associated with bonus effects because of absorption hearts and golden apples, and the player wouldn’t expect for an innocuous food item to hurt them
the hunger system really needs an update especially with all the food coming out
sure you can keep adding new food but people will only eat steak and golden carrots or gapples
add new ways for food to be unique mojang not just half a hunger bar
I thought they would start with dried kelp but unfortunately no
Only purpose for dried kelp is to act as fuel and it isn't even useful for cooking food because campfires exist
They should change dried kelp to fill 2 hunger points (1 x 🍖) instead of 1 (1/2 x 🍖)
They should update the food system and add more food to the game.
@@Officewaffle Not to mention that bamboo is just as good of a fuel
and even easier to make automatic farms for it’s the best fuel
for turning sand into glass or anything else because
the bamboo storage system will overflow if you afk or go on long adventures
especially if you have a big bamboo farm.
at this point minecraft is barely a survival game, its so easy even on the hardest difficulty simply because changing numbers doesnt make the game harder, it just makes it frustrating, once you get 1 wooden sword you can basically kill any mob in the surface or caves, so there's no survival anymore.
I think my only real problem is keeping consistency, for example, a player is most likely going to have to carry several food items and also grind for them along with keeping a balanced diet without running out of energy (running, swimming, etc) and getting the required foods. So probably just simplifying it so casual players understand the concept and also can keep it aside while still managing to play the game (build, explore, cave, etc). So keeping the diet but also being able to manage it and not have to multitask without it feeling like a chore.
To me at least, the sheen on the hunger bar and the way the "chicken legs" change to green cabbage-like things seems to suggest that eating vegetables gives a boost to the player's energy or stamina while sprinting or jumping.
I liked the part where you ate an entire carrot, a loaf of bread, a full bottle of honey, a cookie, an entire rabbit stew, and a pumpkin pie within a single minute and then went for a swim.
Gorgability ftw
It honestly looks like some kind of “eat your veggies” thing. More energy but you get hungry quicker maybe. Possibly with a speed boost and faster regen.
eat your damn veggies
I think one way to improve Minecraft’s food system is to replicate what Breath of the Wild has with cooking, where you can mix and match ingredients and get different dishes with different effects. It’s one of my favourite mechanics from BOTW, though it’d probably clash with potion brewing in Minecraft a bit.
I don't know, I feel like Minecraft could use some more "advanced" crafting features kind of like brewing. I feel like such a system would be a nice addition.
BotW has potions though.
@@TinyDeskEngineer It would be really fun if they did something that involved experimentation, like the BOTW cooking system. This was somewhat the original intention with brewing: The recipes would've been different for every world; but this was removed since it made things too complicated. BOTW has constant recipes, but the sheer amount of them as well as the fact that they dynamically change with the amounts of ingredients used is what makes it more worth it to put together things on your own than use a wiki.
Finally! Someone that talks about the barebones food system and ways to improve it! I always pray the next update it's something like ''The Chef Update'' lol.
There's videos on youtube that touch on the subject but refer to preestablished mods for solutions, which I always find like a missed opportunity for an interesting discussion on a broad topic I feel it's very welcoming to all opinions and levels of knowledge.
While there's a variety of foods in the game, players are stuck with golden carrots (being an end game food source, it's baffling that it's so easy to get in such a short time for experienced players) and steaks (a food source any average player can get lots of by making a hole in the ground and dropping two cows in) since they have a high saturation value and restore a considerable amount of hunger points. Yes, you COULD optimize your consumption by eating low saturation foods at a low level of hunger but when you get to the point you have a pen full of cows/pigs/chickens (you can do this fairly quick as an average player) there really isn't a point to do so. I can just breed 2 pair of cows to make up for the extra two steaks I had to eat, I have to breed them anyway.
The idea of having different food types have a different effect on the player I think is a step in the right direction to have a more dynamic and engaging experience, but I feel that the reward being ''you lose less hunger for this specific task'' is really limiting and something the average player would barely notice if we take into account that food sources (farms, breeding, automation) stay the same, in fact food sources might be a discussion a youtube comment could not do justice. Getting back at the subject, I feel a more simple to understand reward should be something like:
- If you eat more high carb foods, you do more damage (AKA a steak-only diet)
- If you eat more vegetables, you take less damage from enemies/falling (Farms)
- If you eat more sugary foods, your average time sprinting increases/you sprint faster
A simple visual effect can help the player notice such effects during gameplay. Maybe the swing on your sword can change from white to red, or be bigger. The hurt sound when taking damage could change to a metallic ''clank'' sound. The camera zooms father out when sprinting. And so on and so on.
We know Mojang also tries to avoid setting a bad example with Minecraft by removing certain features like fireflies or not being able to feed parrots cookies, encouraging the player to have a varied diet seems like a no brainer in a game whose main audience is children but I think this would deter from the overall experience. Having a window with different percentages of every food type I don't think it's something a new player or an average player would understand and having little pop ups explaining what they do while you hover on them I think would make things even worse.
I can see what you tried to do with the hunger bar, but I couldn't understand it. I think the hunger bar is not the issue here, as you're trying to add extra steps to something simple to understand as if you'd try to add an extra letter between A and B.
Anyways, great video! It was nice to talk about a feature I think it's often overlooked by the larger minecraft community but it has been a part of the game since almost the very beginning. There's even a lot more to talk about! Such a s food sources, ways to interact with food, cooking, ''what would happen with effects if we mix different food types?'' Maybe those topics will come up spontaneously if anyone's willing to discuss my points, until then 👋
Thanks for the comment! You bring up some good points. If I tried this again, I would probably strip back the hunger system to a more basic form before introducing diet based mechanics.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy perhaps time for another go ?
Maybe, but I'm pretty busy with other stuff for now
I think that reversing the bar shine would make it seem more like a punishment rather than a benefit. Perhaps if you gave the bar a subtle gold glow whenever the player wasn’t doing an exhausting activity (and a lessened version when doing one with reduced exhaustion) that would make it clearer.
You could alternatively add a subtle hunger-like effect to the bar whenever you are doing an exhaustion causing activity and reduce its effect when on the proper food group.
I think this would be better because knowing which activities cause hunger in vanilla is pretty difficult.
I could not figure out what was happening, other than the leaves being the food group but I don’t think that is because it’s a bad visual system but because I could only see the one instance. If I was experimenting in game I’m sure I would have figured it out.
I was planning to reverse the bar shine *and* only have it play when exhaustion reduction *isn't* applied, to clarify. But this feedback is also helpful, thank you!
Had the same thought about figuring out how it worked. Didn’t know from that one example, but would have quickly figured it out after trying even just one other food group
I like this except, gold foods already have a positive association, so just make the icons to gold versions while the positive thing is happening.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy You could try adding something like a lock, chain, or shield symbol to communicate the hunger resistance. It could even be paired with different symbols to communicate buffs you get from foods, like a pickaxe or a feather displayed on the shield.
A little thought: to make the food at the early game simple, cooking beef and making simple foods like break could be simplified, maybe making the campfire faster could make getting simple food at the early game easier. But, at the end game, food could be made by merging the existing ingredients into one
For example, at the early game your diet could consist of beef, carrots, potatoes, and other vegetables. However, the late game would be recipes instead of single item food, as you'd have a greater range of ingredients to choose from
Food progression like this would be perfect. Sort of like Breath of the Wild’s food, where you can combine certain ingredients to stack up some huge buffs.
I only use golden carrots and my storage is full of unused foods, so getting some dramatic buffs would be a great incentive to prevent that late game uselessness.
Only problem would be avoiding potion territory, so no potions are rendered obsolete (unless potions are included as advanced food ingredients).
Would love to eat 3 meals a day if I’m active or maybe 1 meal if I’m less active and have a single item that immediately fills my hunger and saturation to the max. The weaknesses could be it takes longer to eat and requires multiple rarer ingredients.
Maybe potions become the only way to add activity-specific buffs to food.
well that is how it works in farmer's delight
@@StatueOfEthan it kinda fucks with speed runs though. And how would you classify “late into the game”? And would all your carrots or potatoes just disappear or become inedible or something?
@@znahejebe4063 I don't think the game would have to change carrots or potatoes. "Late game" for food would be I guess having the resources to farm emeralds to get golden carrots.
I think food with more buffs that fill more saturation and hunger in one go would only benefit speed runners so theyre more protected and don't need to slow down to eat as often. It might even give speed runners a method to get them early if they're lucky (like Piglins having a nether-specific entree or finding them in Village chests)
Campfire are already really fast and reliable at cooking
The glint across the hunger bar felt similar to the vanilla "jumping" of the food shanks when they are decreasing, so it felt like the hunger bar was currently decreasing.
I must say, while I haven't really been a fan of abnormals mods, this is a really cool and well thought out idea. Hearing about your design process was also very interesting. Good video!
If you paused the video at around 0:54, and DON'T KNOW HOW THE MOD ALREADY WORKS, please leave a comment with your guess as to what was happening in that clip. Thank you!
It makes you lose hunger slower.
i think it means it restores health regardless of whether the bar is full? gold in MC is associated with healing, and the sheen moves across like your health when it's regenerating. edit: ok i did think "food run out slower" at first but that didnt sound quite right
you are using up your lettuce points for running (which decreases) instead of saturation (which stays the same until you run out of lettuce points)
I think the bar changes green because you ate a vegetable. I think the glowing means the saturation is high
you heard 'lettuce points' first from me folks! xD
I cannot even begin to describe how exited I am to try this system
*excited
Saaaame so hyped
Maybe make the hunger bar animated similar to how the hearts are animated when you have regeneration? Otherwise definetly looks very good so far!
Yeah, I agree. Having high saturation is a lot like having regen, but for food. That bouncing animation also makes it look like the bar is happy, so I think ppl would get the message even if they'd never seen the regen effect before.
That will give the impression that hunger is being replenished passively
unfortunately in vanilla when your hunger bar is jumping it means it's completely empty, it would be really confusing. if this mechanic wasn't established by mojang before I think it would work really well
I'm always eagerly awaiting a follow up video to this one.
I'd figure that the sheen means that you're using lots of hunger, and the lettuce or whatever means that you most recently ate a vegetable.
My first guess is that the sheen means you ate recently so you can't get hungry until some time has passed. If not, an idea for improvement myb.
@@Caellyanj j j oh oh oh ok oh pho o jooo j j j pho j oh j o Jo Jo Jo Jo j
Personally, I find that changing the hunger bar icons may not be the way to go. I think the hunger bar, much like the health and air bars, are a quick way to show your survival status. Having them vary in such a large way and show stamina reduction variation seems to contradict the purpose of the hunger bar.
I think the changes you've made are more akin to buffs/status effects or even stats, so I don't think they need to be shown in "information I need grabbing my attention at all times" so probably not in the HUD. I would suggest that this information be kept in on the side of your inventory, much like status effects are.
I am also concerned about the complexity of it all. Maybe I missed it, but how do you convert the information of what food group is associated to which activities?
You absolutely nailed it !
Great comment! 👍
NGL, this is a great Counter-argument
another point when it comes to the hunger bar, perhaps changing *all* of the icons isnt the way to go. like lets say youve eaten meat and it fills up the hunger bar halfway, and then you decide that it would be more suitable to eat vegetables. then perhaps the other half of the hunger bar has a different icon to show what kind of buff it gives or whatever, and then when youve depleted the little lettuce leaves the buff changes to the meat again.
And the fact that Minecraft is still considered a "kids game" or at least kids should be able to understand the basics and not have to learn all the complexities of this to just play Minecraft.
The detail of changing hunger bar icons according to the last eaten meal is great. It really helps with understanding of these mechanics.
Initial reaction at the start 1:00 I thought it was a weaker type of saturation at first, then I assumed it was just a retexture of regular saturation designated for veggies. I really like this idea, can't wait to see more of your content!
The hunger bar animation gave me originally the feeling that the hunger bar was going to Regen itself, but since I felt that didn't make sense I assumed it meant that it had more saturation and wouldn't drain as fast. So, although my second guess was right, it wasn't my first impression.
Food groups seems like the best way to improve food in Minecraft. Making the last food eaten less efficient would give people the incentive to have a variety of foods while also not annoying players too much. I think adding in more foods that combine multiple ingredients would be cool too, late game you could have a stockpile of vegetable and chicken soup for example. You could say we end up with the same problem but that way people would have to have a chicken farm, carrot farm and whatnot. Compared to just having one farm and they would still need to change it up at some point if the exact same food is less efficient after X amount of times eating it.
Some mods, like Farmer's Delight, add foods that belong to four groups :P
I can tell you the repeat food punishment it won't end well as don't starve's character "Warly" has that effect.
He is considered one of the most frustrating(Not hard just frustrating) characters to play as it often forces you to do content you don't want to do and punishes you for forgetting what food you had recently.
@@Warcrafter4 The games are quite different. Survival in Minecraft is almost secondary especially compared to Don't starve where surviving is the game.
The way I envision it is more rewarding the player for mixing up food groups rather than punishing them for not.
I am open to other possibilities I just know in it's current form it leaves a lot to be desired.
I was listening till you said less efficient,punishing the player for eating the same food is annoying,would at a minimum need to be a gamerule(DISABLED by default)
I've been playing with this mod for a while and I've had to look back on the Curseforge page multiple times to check while food group is best for my next activity so maybe adding something to the foods description to say which activities go best or an in-game guide
The design philosophy behind this mod is amazing, more mod creators should take notes from it.
I'd personally suggest replacing the "sheen" with a slow pulsation, it would give a more "protected" feel to your hunger.
Very interesting concepts here. I do think theres one issue with a lot of mods like this that want to encourage variety: The inventory size limit. Getting benfits from varied food is inherently discouraged by the fact that doing that will take up more inventory space than a simple stack of bulk food, so the buffs given by eating the right food groups would have to be strong enough to counteract that. A comparison could be stardew valley, a game with an equally limited inventory, where food buffs can have a pretty huge effect, which when translated into minecraft would be on the level of giving a slight fortune enchant, more loot in chests, and so on. But at that point, its just kind of reinventing the potion system... I dunno, really.
Yeah, I didn't want to intrude on potions at all. I don't want to encourage carrying multiple foods around, but just for the player to think about what activity they're likely to do next and plan their food accordingly.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy I was thinking the same things. While I personally love the ideas of this system and would love to see food choice become more meaningful, I do see a lot of players wanting to min-max the system and have every benefit at once. They already do that considering Golden Carrots are the best food in the game and many make entire villager trading halls just to get them.
Late game it might be feasible to have a Shulker Box with stacks of a bunch of different foods, but early to mid game there isn't a way to take full advantage of the system without constantly swapping your foods or wasting inventory space.
Another thing to consider is the highly dynamic nature of Minecraft. I can't being to tell you how many times I've planned to do a lot of building, realize I need to go collect a few materials, get distracted by a cave, and suddenly I'm facing a horde of mobs. What is one to do in that instance if they wind up with a bad food for the task, other than sticking with one food as they already do? While expecting a player to plan their meals according to the task works in theory, I don't think it holds up to normal gameplay, at least not without dragging out your activities and forcing you to think about food before doing anything.
@@untapped8776 I mean, there's no debuffs, right? Worst case you're on regular food state.
You could maybe change the sheen to a sort of "Each individual hunger symbol bounces up for a quick second" animation similar to hearts when you are healing, i feel like that little bit of positive and clear visual cohesion would clue players in a little easier that this is a beneficial effect
I think that the leafy hunger bar is used to signal that the player is currently under some form of effect from eating the carrot, and has the purpose of helping the player keep track of the current effect they have active, and the sheen that the bar takes on when you sprint makes me think of strength or immunity, so I would guess that it means that the effect of the carrot activates when you sprint, and that the effect reduces the increased hunger drain caused by sprinting.
This is a really interesting idea and feels more like vanilla than vanilla itself, if that makes sense. Great work.
Thank you very much!
My first guess as to what the animation is was that it was a sort of regeneration. The animation going left looks as if it was filling up. If it was going to the right, however, I would have guessed it was decreeing faster, like the others. Whichever kind of animation you choose, I would suggest it not being directional, as it makes people think of increasing the speed of something changing. Some kind of flashing, or better yet, a static change would work the best in my personal opinion. If I may, I would suggest having additional icons show up behind the already present ones, feeling the spaces in between already present parts of the bar. This way, the bar can look as if there is more, therefore lasting longer, without the need to change its size.
The moving glint gave the impression of a diferent property to the food for example this particular food strenghts the speed or such
Neat ideas. I pondered my own fleshed-out system a number of years ago, but I struggled to make it so the game didn't become _Chef Simulator 2016_ lol
I think it keeps the hunger from going down with the sheen, and the leaves indicate a balanced diet of plants and meats
The problem with this implementation is that it dramatically complicates a system that shouldn't be complex. The player shouldn't have to do several minutes of research just to determine the most efficient food to eat for the activity (or group of activities) they are going to do that day. It bogs down gameplay and (debatably) becomes an even greater annoyance than the vanilla system.
Oh I don't expect players to determine exactly which food would be best, just have a vague idea of which food would be suitable for an activity they're planning.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy That's true, but even just getting a vague idea of the suitable foods for activities requires either external research or lengthy experimentation. I agree that Minecraft's food system is highly flawed, but adding additional complexity onto it doesn't feel like an ideal way to remedy the issue. Not to say I dislike what you've done, it's very creative and makes for an awesome mod, but it isn't a replacement or bandage for the greater problem with food in the game (that it isn't particularly challenging, engaging, or fun, and only serves as an additional time sink to detract from other aspects of the game)
Once people do know what does what it shouldn't be a problem imo
Initial Reactions to 1:02 Tbh, the sheen on the leaf bar looks like it's related to you sprinting around. My initial guess would be that carrots = vegetables, which grants a speed boost while sprinting (although it doesn't look like you're moving any faster, so I'm guessing that's not it).
Second guess is that it's something related to "protection" or reducing the rate at which your hunger decreases. My instinct tells me that this is related to the vegetable food group, BECAUSE the sheen only activates once the whole hunger bar turns into vegetables.
Edit (SPOILER): Turns out I guessed more or less correctly. I don't really like this concept though. There's no prior indication on what food group protects against what activity, and it feels weird to have food groups relate to any activity anyway, because that's just not really how food works in life. People eat food for reasons completed detached from their job or activity. I'll make another comment giving my counter-suggestion.
My first thought on the sheen was that you had a temporary effect that prevented hunger decay, and it showed you were protected from the effects of running
The leaves indicate that you have a certain passive buff (in this case the buff involves sprinting) and the sheen is meant to show that buff is activating.
the sheen moving across the hunger can be confusing. all of the hunger should have a rotating sheen around the outside of each food bar. this may need some tweaking because apple skin's saturation effect may make it hard to see, but a constant rotating sheen would be a more obvious "protection" than the linear moving one
Farmers Delight has food that gives a status effect which makes you not lose saturation for a period of time. The status effect has a golden hunger bar displayed on it.
I think that making the hunger bar golden, like literally looking like gold, would give the idea of "oh, I'm loosing less hunger!"
Also by adding a small indicator of a foot, a sword, or a pickaxe above the food bar to indicate what you lose less hunger from ✨
I know I'm a lot late, but when I first say the hunger effects that you added, I guessed that it changed based on food type and that the glow represented an activity was being done that would have a reduced saturation loss, exactly what ended up being the case. I'm a big fan of this system, and I think you are really close to making something incredible.
I think the wild update should really build around food to add survival back into survival. Also I kindof thought that the animation represented the jolt of energy you recieve shortly after eating something sugary.
The moving glint on the hunger bar gave me the impression of shielding when I first saw it, so I'd say it aligns quite well with your original goal. However, it gives the impression of regeneration, as a few others have mentioned, so maybe having it start in the middle of the food bar and go outwards in either direction, adding a border around the icons (though this may conflict with appleskin) or just having a pulsing glint might work better.
To answer the question at the begining of the video:
The way the hunger bar look seem to be the last food type you've eaten (there is meat, vegetables and maybe other ones i don't think about)
The glowing thing first make me think that the hunger bar goes up like in the regeneration effect but since it don't move i'm guessing that it's like enchantement, it represent a sort of stronger/better version.
This is a really good idea, nice job 👍
honest first impression: I have no idea what the green icons are or what they or the gold sheen is trying to communicate.
Edit: I see now what the green icon is, but if that happened to be my very first food (and bread often is) I would still be confused until I ate more stuff to explore the behavior. Props for the fruit icon, super clear what it is. Really the rest are too. Just the veggie icon is difficult.
As for the shimmer, I get now what you are going for but it didn't come across to me. I would do an opposite direction animation in a negative connotation color like red to communicate draining and then modulate color intensity and maybe animation speed to reflect how fast the drain occurs.
The gold animation you have now looks more like a buff and might be better used for... golden food? Maybe those simply have no good or bad activities and always drain somewhat slower, but not as slow as having the right match of food and activity. Like if a food drains 4x slower for the right activity make golden for 2x slower for all activities. Then players who don't want to engage with the new food system can just eat their golden carrots for a fairly normal experience.
Also, please please... FABRIC
A fabric port is coming out soon :)
My idea: Change the outlines of the icons to a bright red (or a darker red if that appears too harmful) while doing an exhausting activity. While using the proper food, this red color could be weakened, changed to a different color (like orange), or not show up at all.
My personal opinion would be the last option. Players would then associate the absence of the red outline to the icon on the hunger bar, which would then be associated with the food they are eating; therefore, successfully teaching a player the system. If this display conflicts with the saturation, an alternative could be simply showing the outline on all hunger nodes that do not have saturation (this would mean none would be visible with full saturation which I do not find a problem, for players rarely have the bar full, plus, is acts as a small reward to having full saturation).
My reaction to the food bar design was the same as the majority. I didn't know what to make, assumed it was some sort of buff because of the type of video, but had no indication as to what kind of buff, and was pretty unsure.
As a fix for the sheen, you could have the food bar strengthen whenever that form of saturation is used. Perhaps increase the size and strength of the colors slightly as if they are clenching.
This is one of the best mods I’ve seen in a long time! It’s simple but amazing, easily blends into vanilla, quality of life. I love it!
I also love food and the new custom icons and animations are super cool!
If they ever do change the hunger system something similar to this would be pretty cool, I love this idea because your not punished for eating as you did before.
I quite like it. I think I’d want to change some of the icons however, especially to replace the leaf with something that looks like a more substantial vegetable like a beetroot or potato. And also there’s a connotation between the meat haunch hunger bar and “default” or “normal” that you’d have to fight if you put it on the same level as the new icons. So I’d suggest replacing it with a different meat-based icon. That said, the players would figure that out easily enough.
Another way of nerfing meat is to make animal breeding more time consuming, instead of just jumping into the mosh pit and spamming wheat. I think large animals should still give a lot of total nutrition, much more so than in vanilla even, but have that be an investment of a greater amount of crops. But that’s in the realm of a larger mod like Animania.
Any plans to port the mod to the major modding versions 1.7.10 or 1.12.2? I’ve been meaning to finally make a GregTech 6 modpack and think this would fit nicely.
Thanks for your feedback! No plans to backport, but I believe AppleCore has exhaustion events so maybe those could be used in some way
Nah, keep the meat haunch hunger bar for meats. 1) it looks good 2) it's familiar for old players and 3) the way this system works if you changed the meat icon the haunches would only appear in the beginning of the game before the player has eaten something. If anything change the 'default' hunger bar to something different.
I'd recommend just pretending the player's last eaten food was in the meat group whenever they load into a new world.
I agree. I love the idea, but the visual, non-verbal communication about what the mod is about is lacking a bit
The way that you implemented this kinda reminded me of the food system from Monster Hunter World; where the ingredients that you can use are divided in 3 types (meat, fish and vegetables); each with a particular buff associated to it (attack, defense, and elemental resistance respectively), and depending on how much of each ingredient you used on a meal you would get a stronger or weaker version of that buff. So for example if you had a weak weapon and were against a fire monster, you would use meat and vegetables; or if you had a weak armor, you would use just fish; meaning you could plan your meal according to the kind of monster you were planning to fight against and the equipment you had
I'm working on a magic survival game called Gateway, and this video was very helpful for me.
I think the shimmering represents that your hunger will not go down, like your character is currently full. The icons changing however I'm not too sure of. Maybe that you're getting a boost from vegetables or that your "diet" has changed?
Edit: after seeing what it means I think this is a really unique and smart way of approaching hunger in the game. I hope its compatible with Farmer's Delight, it's my favorite mod because I love the new foods it brings and adding cooking mechanics to any game instantly makes it more likeable for me.
Edit, again: Okay I hope that it'll be easy to make resource packs for modded-in food because I really wanna add Farmer's Delight to my gameplay.
I think farmer's delight works already thanks to diet having the food groups for plenty of mods.
Basically thanks to the diet mod this mod can work will a lot of mods already, I know twilight forest and the abnormal mods works for example.
Farmer's delight last time I checked did worked.
Yeah, I might need to balance farmer's delight foods with this system first though
@@walls171 what diet mod exactly?
That is an amazing food system, I love it. For the sheen of the hunger bar, I would suggest keeping it immobile, just having the entire hunger bar glow up then down. All icons at the same time instead of one after the other. I think that would help with the "protect" feel you mentioned.
As someone who challenged himself to eat only rabbits for an entire season on my server, I can confirm that it is definitely lacking. Making it faster to eat would really help hahaha
Thanks! That sounds like something worth trying out.
I think you could place the effect icons of certain food type next to these bars in menu, so it'd be more obvious to what food type does what
Fun fact that i saw very similar system already in Vintage Story (standalone, very good game initially based on minecraft), with difference with 5th diet element was milk instead of sugar here, and bonus was additional HP instead of various bonuses
I feel like when you eat the carrot you enter some sort of vegetarian state that gives you a different effect (not like status effects, but some sort of thing that works with different kinds of food), idk what the shimmer is about tho
Edit: Ok I was very far off lol
I think this system has a similar problem as the combat one, too complex for new players or players that don't tend to read changelogs. One of the main appeals of minecraft's current food system is that it's, well, simple. You have food, you eat food, you run. Some food better, some food worse.
While i do feel like it need an overwhoul and that this is a really well crafted and interesting mod, only watching this video has made me really confused about how it works
That was my worry with designing this mod too
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy These were my first impressions while watching the video though! I am planning on playtesting if i have some free time soon, so my feedback may change :)
Thanks! Let me know if you have any feedback from playtesting
My guess: The golden sheen would slow the rate of the food bar decreasing.
I actually kinda guessed right at the beginning,
I had no idea what the icon change did other than it changes to vegetables after eating carrots and I thought the thing on the bar meant that after eating you can't lose any hunger and while not the same as just slowing it down its close enough
My initial thoughts on the green food icon with the sheen is that its slowly filling your hunger up rather than filling it all immediately.
1:00 it looks like some kind of passive buf provided by the type of food you eat
i would think it froze my hunger state for awhile, it does mostly resemble some sort of regen effect but that really wouldn't make sense obv, but the icon change indicates some sort of status effect and the golden glow indicates its good and given its the hunger bar the only other option i see is it allowing you to bunny hop to your hearts content without worrying about losing hunger for awhile.
1:11 figured something along the lines of slowing down how fast you lose food bar as you’re jumping/jump sprinting
I’d add an ice/freeze effect like as if the hunger bars were stuck frozen.
That would make me think eating is disabled.
I really appreciate how you break down exactly what you're doing in the code bit into simple phrasing that even non-programmers can understand. I've always struggled to understand the use of enums, and your explanation made perfect sense to me. Likewise, the explanation of events also seemed much more self explanatory once you phrased it how you did.
I'm glad I was able to explain it clearly! I was worried I was a little too dry there lol
I think turning it grey and making the outline bolder would work best for simplicity. Maybe adding a status effect that goes with it would also work?
This is actually a really good idea! Cool mod!
Dude, I absolutely love the takes made by you guys on modding for the game. It is well thought out and honestly brilliant.
I also love your method of making videos and breaking things down, they are engaging and really enjoyable. Thank you so much for spending your time to make these! They are a gem :D
I'm glad you appreciate them! I enjoy teaching people :)
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademySuggestion: make it so that the more you eat one food, the less effective it is. Until it refuses to be eaten.
To me it looks like the sheen combined with the change from drumsticks to leaves shows that you have eaten a solid variety of foods, which is probably meant to be a good thing
i think that you have to balance your food like in real life like it can change some stats i.e. buffs (swiftness, haste, jump boost, etc) and debuffs (slowness, blindness, nausea, etc) and you need to eat both vegetables and meats to keep a good combo, and maybe there are later parts that have to do with water, like rlcraft, but thats my best guess to what it could be from the little clip i was given.
i just reached 1:40 and boom there comes my first thought
6:23 i can kind of see how having niche food groups can help with the food realism and certain situations, but it just conflates one of my biggest issues with Minecraft, and thats inventory space and how all the tools you need and food and such takes up so much room already, adding several more stacks of food would just make it worse, so i feel this would have to be used in conjunction with a mod with backpacks or a tool belt for things like sword and pickaxe, but still that leaves the player wanting.
9:44 i'm not gonna add another comment at the end, but i will say that while some of the ideas are good, like the saturation and food groups are good for different things, the only things i feel like could use a bit of touching up are the balancing issues if it changes things to be too hard (which might be good to keep on the side for some hard mod pack like rlcraft) but the inventory is my main issue, but it seems like a good idea and you appear to have made good progress already.
thank you for the video, i may not watch the next video, but i like to see people work on things they enjoy and you seem to have found what you want, you go man, keep up the good work👍
Comment for 0:57
The way the sheen propagates implies directional movement to the left, so my hypothesis there is that the hunger bar will replenish over a temporary window of time. Don't know what to make of the leaf icons though.
I would like to see how the new hunger icons look when you have the hunger status effect
Maybe rotten versions of the food
Edit: maybe you should also make it so if you ate the same food a lot that then eating something different it would give a bonus
If you download the mod you can see for yourself ;)
8:12 you can see the issue and 8:15 it is even worst with the layout, you made it while keeping in mind that it is readable, but it drawn attention too much, high contrast and all, the vanilla bars feel symmetrical (even if hearts and drumsticks have different color and shape), it feels too flashy, If it was up to me I'd make the icons have similar vibe to the drumsticks, if player wants to check what buff they have they have to look dawn anyway
I particularly love the concept of changing eating speed rates for different foods
The part at 3:16 reminds me so much of the Jackson Hole Town Square livestream when it was just "truck" truck" "truck" "truck" "dog" "dog" "red truck" "red truck".
I honestly wouldn't mind a mod that would just tell me what "player" is doing in my chat, I find stuff like that incredibly funny.
Also, if you still need it my initial reaction to seeing the leaves(which I didn't quite realize they were leaves at first) was that it was some kind of health indicator, and that maybe eating a "healthier" food like a vegetable gave some kind of effect, like faster/longer sprinting. That was pretty much exactly what my thought was when you asked.
Food, I love food, heck yeah food baby, we love food, food, food, I love food
I really like the idea behind the mod! It does a good job at encouraging diverse eating without forcing certain food restrictions on the player.
I interpreted the animation to represent active digestion. That could equate to a period of time when there is a boosted effect/drain reduction based on the type of food last eaten, as indicated by the different icons.
It was easy enough to figure out that the hunger bar changing was related to what you'd last eaten, but the sheen was confusing and wasn't easy to guess what it's function was.
My suggestion would be to change the sheen into a sort of upwards motion, rather then a right to left/left to right motion. And maybe add something else to show that you're having a positive effect on your hunger because of what you're doing.
Also for the grains icon, I'd personally have something like a single wheat stalk instead of whatever it is currently, its not the easiest to identify at a glance in my opinion
the green bar animation gives me the impression that I now have multiple hunger bars corresponding to different types of food, which become visible when i eat that type of food. The glowing on the green bar doesn't really indicate anything to me intuitively, but if i had to guess i'd say it means high saturation?
0:55
My prediction is that different categories of foods are more efficient for different activities. Green - Locomotion, Meat - Regeneration, etc.
My intial reaction to the hunger bar (though probably usesless sonce its been a year):
The new texture i though just means u last had a vegetable, and is probably a tie in to different mechanic based 9n eating a variety of food. The shine on the bar i thought meant a buff to some stats. Maybe speed or saturation or something like that.
the hungerbar jitters, like how it shakes when you’re starving, could be used while someone is doing something that makes you exhausted quicker, instead of a sheen-
I think the overlay should be reversed - the "moving bar" should be applied when performing an activity that drains hunger quicker.
I didn't understand the idea at the beginning of the video, and even after the explanation, I couldn't put those two together. I'm pretty sure I would understand the meaning of icons when playing, a single example was just not enough.
A great idea though! I would love to see some slight negative effects for certain activities, it would make it more balanced (imho).
Also, the cooked porkchop is the best food! It can be fully automated and you need just a tiny bit less of it than golden carrots.
I'll consider these, thanks for your feedback!
Not sure if I need some nerfs because I wanted to make sure that using it to its full potential made it so you don't have to worry as much about eating frequently.
Also porkchop might be automatable through hoglins but chicken cookers are much easier to set up
0:48 My guess would be that the green hunger bar signifies that you just ate a plant based food and the animation signifies some sort of saturation, either the vanilla saturation system or a new custom one!! :D
I would think that eating the carrot made the hunger bar change to a different one to signify that the next thing you should eat, shouldnt be a carrot or similar for better effect
Also, where do you get just the assets for this stuff?
My suggestion is instead of changing the food bar just add little icons that indicate for what activity is that food good at
Something like eating a chicken shows a sword with a green arrow that might make the player think that the food makes them stronger and even if they don't notice a change in damage at least they would keep eating that food for combat since it must be doing something related to combat
Icons could only be shown briefly after eating and then disappear so that HUD doesn't get flooded with info
It's a good idea the difficult part is making it intuitive
My first thought of the hunger icon change was that the subtle sheen was supposed to show how long the duration of the effect would last, that the sheen would move faster as the effect got to its end or something.
My first guess for that first item is that you would move faster.
Making it look more durable is a really good idea. My first thought was like an armour outline but he suggestions you got for making them Bigger or bolder are probably the option I would go with.
I’m assuming that after eating the carrot, the leaf icons represent that the last food you ate was a vegetable (which presumably has some relevance that the player will understand as they play) and the sheen represents that their hunger meter is somehow protected for the time being, meaning it won’t go down for a while
a cute lil animation idea for the exhaustion reduction could be an arrow blinking/pointing up right next to the hunger bar, as a sort of "boost" indication :)
The sheen seems like either a stamina boost, you can run further and get hungry slower, or the hunger bar is taking some time to fill
A specific idea with meats Mojang have mentioned is only allowing meat to be obtained from sustainably farmed animals. So you couldn't just put a bunch of cows in a 1x1, the game would detect it and rarely drop steak. If you make a large pen with water, lots of food, and interact with them more often, you could get more steak.
As well, all meats would instantly fill you up, but would take much much longer to eat. Then, you could just eat once in a while and it would become less annoying.
Not sure where Mojang have mentioned that but I'm planning a mod with a similar idea
I think the term your looking for is "humanely," rather than "sustainably." May be tricky to code the game to detect that though.
I think the shimmering on the hunger bar is too intrusive, during the gameplay I'd find myself watching the hunger bar because of the animation instead of the actual gameplay, I'm not sure what it would be like if I played the mod tho
And another thing, the system you have is a good idea but I can't vision myself using this as I'd normally try to just get whatever food I can and mass produce it for convenience, namely being crops like wheat and potatoes (bread and baked potatoes)
Most players would do the same as well, unless they want to be 100% efficient.
A better idea would require nerfing the ability to get/make food, namely being most of the crops in game.
Like mabye wheat doesnt grow in a icy tundra? Mabye you have to make sure the crops dont get diseased or eaten by animals?
Mabye youd need to skin animals before being able to cook them?
Or having the proper equipment to bake/cook food? Last time I checked you cant just go to a table in real life and manifest an entire cake with frosting and berry toping from some bundles of wheat, milk, eggs, and sugar without even baking it
A good example to look at for ideas on a hunger system is a survival game called dont starve, which i think handles hunger almost perfectly.
Yeah, the system isn't for everybody. I guess I'll see how people handle it in playtesting - I can introduce nerfs if I feel the need to.
to answer the question at the start, i get the impression that different things that take hunger are affected by the most recent meal you ate- and based on the green icon and the fact a carrot was used, i expect vegetables (read carrots beets and kelp) would grant a buff that minimizes hunger loss when sprinting! i would make assumptions then that Meat would likely cause less hunger loss when fighting, and sugary foods such as cake might recover health faster before even experimenting with the system.
the sheen looks like its some sort of energy
but i think it would make more sense for the exhaustion protection to look more like AppleSkins saturation effect. Making the glow/outline from yellow to something else might work, or maybe dont make the sheen/glint directional.
MY GUESS: The bar of leaves means that the next food item you consumed has to be a type of food other than vegetables.