Coilover Springs, Spring Rates, and Calculations - Filthy Motorsports
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2016
- A detailed explanation of how coilover springs work, how to calculate your spring rate, how to fix incorrect springs and how to set up your coilover springs by Ben Brazda, owner of Filthy Motorsports.
Corrections / Updates:
4:11 - I should have said "sprung weight"
4:59 - I should have said "sprung weight"
For the article associated with this video, visit www.crawlpedia.com/coilover_sp...
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As an ASE Master Tech since late 70’s, coil spring rate was not on my radar much as mostly OEM supported products were used. Moving away from stock designs for a better ride involves an understanding first, knowledge of products and experience. This guy does a very good job of all. Building a vehicle for me for a change and a vintage truck, like the 67 C10 truck, is not a rock crawler but a daily driver that needs improving. That brought here!
Learning is the first step, before opening a wallet and letting it fly. The old saying is true in suspension as it is for speed, “How fast can you afford to go?” or “How good do you want it to ride & handle?” I would spend money if I knew before what is was getting, this video helps a bunch! Thanks...
That was the best explanation of coil over calculations and understanding I have ever heard
Thanks for the feedback, so glad you liked it! Don't forget to subscribe, we've got a lot more videos like this in the pipeline.
@@Filthymotorsports
Do you have a video to help decide if I want or need dual rate (1 piece) coils?
That was a surprisingly *"Clean"* explanation by *"Filthy"* Motorsports! 👍
Thanks a metric butt ton! No rock crawler here, but the principle is the same and I've been battling with my spring length/rate of my new coilovers. The manufacturer has already sent me new ones with a higher rate and same length (and now I really wish that I had had a little more dialogue with them). Ended up the original ones they included in the kit for my car the same spring rates for a car roughly 700lbs lighter and with a different front to rear weight ratio. They kept binding and realized at one point while resetting the preload, that the free height of them were permanently 5mm or so shorter. However, these new springs are having the same issues once the coilovers settle. At first they drive great, and then I'm bottoming out it feels horrible.
I appreciate the way you explained everything, it was easy to follow and understand (well after countless hours of research and troubleshooting. I am going to use your method to get the corner weights even if it's a rough number. And I have a feeling that it's likely I'll need a taller spring instead of just a stiffer one. I prefer a smoother ride and wanted adjustable damping for the constantly varying weight. I use the car to load up luggage and deliver all over OR and WA and there are okay to absolute crap roads and no shortage of potholes. I really need to dial in the rear springs so the car will be able to handle a load of 450lbs (rounding up) at the start of work and still have room for unexpected road conditions
Ben, you the man.....thanks for the info.
I appreciate the time you put into making these videos!! 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
this is one of the best videos i have seen about springs , quality and knowledgeable advice is what we consumer are really missing.i will definitely consider them on my new suspension requirement
So glad to hear that, thank you!
One of the most informative and clear descriptions on TH-cam. Excellent. Please keep them coming! Would be good to see some shots of real set ups of what you are describing, along with your cut away parts etc. Superb!
Thank you for the feedback! Once we get through our tech videos we are planning to move on to covering real world examples and setups. So, stay tuned!
These are really impressive. I know, I'm 4 years behind latest comment. But still.
I just want to thank you for this video! After battling with the rear suspension of my SUV, it was soft but wasn’t right. In the end it required a little spacer for the rear coil springs. Somehow it did wonders for the ride quality and control (the coils were a little shorter than the travel of the rear suspension). In the end I placed a small 20mm spacer and now the ride is way better and it feels as if the socks can do their job much better than before. I have never imagined I required a little preload
So glad to hear it!
Great job with the explanation setting the coil over up
I now know 💯 % absolutely who I'm buying my King Coilover Shocks from... I have heard the name
FILTHY MOTORSPORTS... But, shit... you're freaking FILTHY SMART and ABLE TO SOLVE YOUR CUSTOMERS PROBLEMS WELL ENOUGH to mak 100% SURE that are makin' SOME MOOLAH, BY NOT doing ANY rework if possible for anyone involved.
SOLD!!!
I'M A CUSTOMER FOR SURE BROTHER...
Thank you!!
Ben's very helpful, and given me a lot of info. I'll be ordering a set of kings from him soon.
So glad to hear it, thanks for letting us know!
That was a surprisingly *Clean* explanation by *Filthy* Motorsports! 👍
Lol!
Shit I was worried that I couldn't keep up with what he's saying... what a guy... man he really knows his shit!!!
H&R springs on stock shock absorbers, car lowered with 3cm and sometimes on roads with holes, the shocks hit them self from having a lower travel... what do you recommend?
New shocks are not an option !
Thank you
Ben thanks for the info. I drive a Chevy Trax to and from work a total of 16 miles round trip. The car rides very rough even with new tires and new struts and shocks. The road is of poor quality but the ride I believe shouldn’t be so hard and jarring. Any suggestions? Thanks.
I would like to make my jeep TJ (daily car) more confortable, any suggestions? not extreme Offroad, just for fun sometimes.
Do you have to have king shocks to take advantage of their exchange program or just buy their springs?
I have a 07 fj cruiser, and got arb bumper with fog lights no plan for winch, I like to level front , would I do it with kings 25001-124 in front thank you for you input
Maybe you can help me
I have a 3000gt and I'm looking for helper springs so I can lower the rear another inch or two but don't know which helper springs to get and only info I can get on my coilovers is 7 kg/mm (392 lbs/in)
Big help! Thank you.
I have a 96 XJ that I want to change the suspension in front. I know nothing about coilovers but am interested. Are they used with the standard coil springs? Where would I start for putting together a decent suspension kit on my jeep?
Question will civic si 2013 springs fit crv whit out problems
Great video! What coil springs would you recommend for RAM 1500 4th gen for smooth ride on 2.5" adjustable shocks? Or may be you have information about axels weights on this car so i can calculate springs rate by myself. Thank you
Great video! how much shoud be the ridding sag for a MX ATV? how much front and how much rear? Thank you! (I have Yamaha Raptor 700R)
Hey i have some icon stage 1 and they come with 13” 650 pound springs . I feel like theres too much preload on them due to the lift i have which is about 3” . Would it be better if i swapped them for a bigger spring spring like 14” either 650 pounds or 700 pounds this way it will have less preload? Will this feel smoother at all ?
Is a 18" free length with 600lb rate a good choice for fox 2.5 dsc coilovers on a toyota tundra that does not have heavy bumper or winch. I was recommended some Eibach 3.0 springs in that spec.
I have a 2002 chevy S10 ZR2 4x4 V6 4.3L with factory bilstein 4600 shocks with a factory 3inch lift. 4inch wider fenders. it weighs about 4800lbs I'm gonna replace my shocks with factory bilstein shocks what coil overs would you recommend for these shocks or vehicle
I really hope you answer this one!
Just installed king 12” 2.0 coilovers on a 2010 JKU. Had to have 5” of preload to get it to sit at ride height matching the rear (which is 4” of lift, previously had 3.5” spring with 1/2” spacer).
How do I lessen the preload while retaining the same height?
i have 2013 mustang gt with koni yellows and ford racing springs the ride sucks what kind of springs would u use to make the car softer its just too stiff ?
If I replace a 12k 8” spring on coil over to a 5” 10k spring whet all changed. Leaving ride height the same also. Just changing spring
Hi Ben, i love in the UK and i have a 2004 2.5 diesel toyota hilux dual cab pick up with winch bumpers front and rear and was hoping you would be able to tell me what a suitable spring rate would best suit my rig.
Many thanks
Howard
For a suspension struct of 18 inches how to find the dimensions of the coils to be used and also how to find its stiffness?
Hi Ben I have a 2004 toyota hilux double cab 2.5diesel do you have an idea on what the unsprung weight will be?
Thanks Howard
i'm trying to get the specs on some aftermarket coilover springs but with the way they've stamped them not sure what the specs are, they are stamped "70 5 230 10kg"the 10k is rate and the 70 is probably inner spring diameter with the 230 being length, could the 5 be the number of coils or something to do with the wire diameter, or tensile strength? never seen springs marked like this before.....
Hi. I want to upgrade my truck a king set. I have a Nissan Navara MY19 (this model is not sold in the USA) which is the new model of the Frontier (in fact in the Latinamerican countries it keeps the Frontier name). It’s quite different in a lot of aspects, but the front suspension remains almost the same of the previous model (still on production for the USA). However the rear suspension is a 5 link type with coil springs (no more leaf springs for this truck).
If I don’t know the stock spring rates of my truck, how can I calculate the unsprung weight?
I guess measuring the total weight of the truck, then lift the truck until just before the wheels hang over, then measure the weight again and finally deduct the second measurement to the first one....
Could it work?
Thanks a lot!
Thank you for all the great videos ! Do you know the max measurement of exposed threads for a king 2.5 OEM on a 2010 f150 4wd
Depends on the application and circumstances. If you are concerned, send us a photo via email and we can let you know. Cheers!
I have Jeep JL diesel with coilovers. On the front I have triple bypass and king 2.5 coilovers up front with with top 3-12-300 and bottom 3-14-300 on 12” shock.
On the rear I have 3-12-200 and bottom of 3-14-250.
I set the coilovers at zero preload front and rear and had to add bit of preload in the rear to get it to level out with the front.
Could I drop the top rate in the front to 250 so I could take some of the height out of the front? I think the Jeep is sitting too tall and could come down some in the front and then take some of the preload from the rear.
this seem like it was more specific the off road motor sport how ever still very helpful thanks
The concepts are the same for all coilovers no matter how they are used, but yes, our customer base is primarily off-road vehicles. Thanks for watching!
I have a central that I’m trying to play in the dirt with. I’m running Ebach 250s, but the ride seems really rough and they’re 12 inches on Fox shocks.
Do you have the best and most clearest information videos I’ve ever seen. I just purchased fox 2.5 coil overs and fox 2.5 shocks for the rear what would you recommend for an upper control arm that’s a good complement with the foxes? Thank you
So glad to hear it! What specific vehicle do you have?
Please help me understand how if a vehicle is compressed down 10" then the spring is only compressed 2"? Is that because of the shocks?
Awesome. Cheers
Ah! I see the light. Thanx Ben.
No worries. It's easy once you know the tricks!
muito prazer, gosto muito de ver seus videos, obrigado por me ajudar, no meu ponto de vista a mola fora do carro tendo um espaço entre os elos de 5 centímetros por exemplo, quando montar no carro, com o peso, a mola deve fica com 2,5 centímetros entre os elos, para que tenho a mesma pressão de retorno e compressão. se você montar e a mola ficar com menos de 2,5 centímetros ideal é usar uma mola com mais carga até os elos ficarem da forma certa,. estou certo ou errado ? obrigado e brande abraço
hey, i have the fox factory 2.5 w/ remote resi & dsc. How hard is it to replace the springs on those?
Very easy, same concept as the Kings.
Thanks for your videos and your pro knowledge, but I have a question. What is typical compression percentage of upper spring until it can not compresd any more becouse of those blocking nuts ? I mean if I would have 8 inch spring, should it be blocked when it gets to 4 inch ? Like 50% does it depend on spring height ?
There is no universal answer to that question as it really depends on the application, I would need to see a photo of the coilovers as they sit installed under the weight of the vehicle.
Now I don't drive a truck, only cars. Tell me, for most sedans, are the dampers underpowered and then they make up for it with heavier springs? Or are they too soft and floaty because not enough is done to take care of nvh that could be a problem with a stiffer suspension?
hi why do they say the BC shocks compared to other brands are not as good as bilsten shocks for track cars ? can you explain the differences ? Bc have 3 ranges of shocks .. is servicing a must for these kind of shocks and what should we look at before we replace them ?
Sorry for the late reply, your question got tagged as spam. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with BC shocks but for what it's worth, the overall quality of a shock is based on the materials, the size and design of the components, the tightness of the tolerances, and the proper arrangement of the valving shims.
Ben thank you for all the awesome information!, however I thought of something, aren't springs the real "shock absorbers" here since springs are the energy absorbing units and the shock is the energy dissipating unit? I am still doing tons of research on the difference between compression damping and spring rates. I heard you said keeping the spring as neutral as possible so the shock could do its work however you also mentioned in some applications higher spring rates prevent bottoming. Went a little off track but defiantly would be nice to see a king shock expert elaborating the differences in a video! Thanks.
Thanks for the question, that is a VERY common misconception so make sure to watch our video on ride quality. In short, a spring only knows one thing, to compress a given mount under a set load, and then kick back. A shock absorber is tuned to act differently between high forces and low forces and fast movement and slow movements, offering incredible control over the vehicle. If you have bad shock absorbers, then you need a heavy spring (poor ride quality). If you have good shocks, you want a soft spring to let the shock do most of the work. Hope that helps!
(Think of it this way - If a trophy truck lands from 6 feet in the air, that would require an extremely heavy spring to "absorb" all of that energy within 6 feet or before the suspension bottoms out. That heavy spring would then make the truck completely unmanageable for driving. Instead, they use relatively light springs to effectively make the vehicle neutral, and have massive shocks to absorb that energy by forcing oil through small passages in the piston where it can be fine tuned for the best control.)
One confusing thing is that the name ‘shock absorber’ is exactly what it isn’t. The name ‘damper’ is a much better description as that is what it does - it dampens the movement of the suspension.
How would i make measurements for utv springs, would it have to Be the same as the ones described?
Correct, the process is the same for all coilovers with linear rate springs.
If you can’t find coils in the exact right length as the OEM.. would you go with shorter or longer ones as a replacement? Looking for a stiffer spring rate but can’t find 13” length 2.25” coils.. only 12 or 14”
That is a tough one to answer without more information. If you go longer you run the risk of coil binding but if you go shorter you might run out of preload adjustability. I still don't understand why some shocks are built using custom length 13" coil springs when they could easily have been made to use an industry standard 14" spring.
I have a diesel Chevy Colorado that I plan on putting baja kits long travel kit on. They have king 2.5's specifically tuned for the extra suspension travel, but I have a winch and bumper. Would I be able to email you and adjust springs with y'all?
We'd be happy to help!
I have 94 Nissan pick hardbody with Dana44 swap it’s v6 manual what springs and Coilovers recommend for used (most daily some off-road nothing crazy))
I'm happy to help, please contact us and we'd be happy to go over your application. Cheers!
I am looking for a king 10” 2.5 100 or 75 psi
Hello i have utv 1900kg witch unimog axles . I want make a 4 link with king or profender coliovers 14-16 inch . Front axles with whels are 350kg and rear axles with whels are 325kg .
Front weight are 52% -988kg, rear are 48%-912 kg . What coils rate will be good for front and rear ? thanks for the answer
Happy to help: www.filthymotorsports.com/Shock_Review_p/fm-shockrev.htm
What is the purpose of the tender spring. My fox 14 inch coil overs have Eibach 350 top 350 bottom with a tender spring in between.
You do not need a tender spring on a 14" coilover with 350 spring rates. Remove the tender and replace the springs as a proper dual rate.
I have an Icon Vehicle Dynamics coilover for my Jeep Jk I can't seem to get help as I am an international customer. Please Filthy help me select a proper spring for my Jeep. I find my Jeep sagging too much. I have a smittybilt front bumper, poison spyder side armor and poison spyder rear tire carrier with 37" nitto trail grapplers. I have too much preload at the moment. I am not a rock crawler and I do offroad wheeling most of the time.
No problem, what are your current spring rates, free heights and the height of the springs as they sit under the weight of the vehicle?
Halo ben my name is jacques.im intrested in building a mini sand rail like the ones from badland buggys.do u sugest i build the car first and then order the shocks?i must stil make a begining with my car.shocks is a prety expensive item (Rand 8500/shock) so i dont want to make mistake
Thanks Ben
You need to plan the build from the beginning but I prefer to wait until the very end to order the shocks so we have the best chance of having them built and valved correctly right out of the box. Hope that helps!
@@Filthymotorsports try
I have a suspension lift kit on my 06 grand Cherokee, can I still install these?
Yes, we can have these built to fit:
www.filthymotorsports.com/King_OEM_Cherokee_WK_Shocks_p/king-25001-162.htm
Let me know!
Filthy Motorsports can't explain how happy I am to get that fast of a reply thank you so much!!
Dude... thank you.
Glad to hear it helped you!
We are building a buggy for SAE Baja , but we cant make up our mind on which coilover to use.
springs are cheap. try a few different setups , then fine tune for performance
Where does the nitrogen come into play on spring rates, and coilover setups?
It has no significant effect.
I am only getting 180 for fortuner how is that even possible. i am running 550 lbs springs
Hi, I have a quick question. I have an chevy avalanche which I modified with a long travel suspension kit, supposed to be 14 inches of travel. it's a 2.5 coilover king shock in the front, using a 14 inch spring 3.00x14x700. I had to max out the preload so that I could get to the needed height, so to reduce the stress on the shock and spring I had to change the rod end to a +2 inch rod end. That worked, and I was able to get the correct height without maxing out on my pre load. After that, I added an aftermarket iron bull bumper, plus a 10,000lb winch with synthetic rope. After installation, the front of the truck droped in height like 2 inches....and then again I had the same problem. So I decided to change the springs to a higher spring rate. well aparently the highest rate King makes is 800lb, which is what I'm running right now. After installation I had to use 95% of my preload to get the truck to the correct height, but the ride feels a bit stiffer than when I was riding with my 700lb spring. Am I screwed? and this is what it is? or do you have any recommendations or thoughts that could help me with maintining my correct riding height but get a more supple ride. To be fair, the part that feels harsher is the low speed bumps. When I go high speed in the desert, it feels like the faster I go, the smoother the truck gets. Thanks! Jon
Sorry, I had a mistake in my information. The spring is 3.00x16x800, it's a 16 inch spring, and it is being compressed down to 12 inches exactly with the load of the truck on both left and righ front sides.
I tried doing the calculations you showed in the video, but with a ride height of 6inches which means I need a 10 inch squat, 3200lb of sprung weight per wheel, the rate that comes out is 320lb spring......yet I'm running an 800 and can barely make it....where did I go wrong?
Hi Jon,
Could you email me a few photos of the current setup? (sales@filthymotorsports.com)
I'm concerned about you adding the 2" extended rod end, if the coilovers were properly matched to your travel to begin with the rod end will significantly reduce your available travel.
Alright, thanks a lot!!
What would happen if someone ran different Length springs on the left and right but same brand and rate? 7” passenger side and 8” or the driver side
As long as they are the same rate and can be preloaded to provide the desired ride height they would act exactly the same.
can you ship to outside UK?
Not directly, but we can ship to the freight forwarder of your choice.
awsome vid.. i have a Q? i did the math on my rail.. i have dual coil. currnet setup 12"coil 175/250 springs. doing the math current front weight is approx. 175lb i think my spring combo is too stiff weight.. was thinking 100/175 some help please
Thanks for the question. What is your desired ride height (shaft exposed)?
Thanks for the quick answer.. its the front of my rail. The current hieght is what i want.. since i have two sides do i multiple the 175lb i got the formula or is that accurate for both sides?
How much shaft do you have exposed now at your desired ride height?
You should do more videos! 🌝👍
Working on it! Just need to find more hours in the day or more days in the week! :)
I must be missing something. If a 14” 100# spring compresses 10” with a 1000 pounds on it why does cutting it in half and making each a 7” spring make it want to compress each spring 10”. Wouldn’t each spring take 500# of load and compress 5” giving your total travel of 10”
Both springs are always supporting the full wight of the vehicle. If I stand on your shoulders, and I lift 100 lbs., we are both lifting that 100 lbs. Does that help?
Good
my name a 1953 chev truck that weighs 2200 lb and it has Camaro front clip and I would like purchase some coil over
Happy to help! Send us an email and we'll get you set up!
why couldn't you just use longer coil springs instead of a tender spring?
You could, but the springs would be so light that they would end up resting on the shock body so while those number work on paper, they are not ideal in practice. Great question!
rock crawer why do you need an spuid helper spring just to slip out of place
A tender/helper spring is only needed when the math works out to needing springs that are too light to work well (less than 100 lbs/in.) and because heavier springs would go loose at full extension, a tender spring is needed to keep them tight.
Hellllllllpppppppp!! I'm going crazy!🤯🤯😂🤣😂🤣
QA1 is the way to go!
the floor looks like a tiled low res game texture that didn't load up but the cutscene is playing XD
Just go to the nearest truck stop and use the cat scale. Park in the middle of the plates to get precise weight between front axle and back. I think its only fifteen dollars just don’t let the truckers looking at you weird bother you.
Be careful buying King shocks I bought some for my Kawasaki Teryx Le 2014 the backs are way too long they will not stand behind them and let me return them and get me new ones one person told me to turn the spring all the way to the top does not fix the problem shocks still too long no travel
Hi Tom, sorry to hear about the frustration, we stopped selling parts for the Teryx years ago because there were simply too many variations in their production to keep up and it was causing problems. I'm guessing you ordered these through someone other than Filthy Motorsports?
Heths Amathing !!!!! Now !!!! I have a 07 hummer h3, I want my cake and eat it TOO!!!!! I want the smoothest ride and the sturdiest shock just in case Im in Jurassic Park, Im a street rider a highway glider but just in case my curiosity gets the best of me on the 70 from denver to cali, I have the original oe, ac delco company. Does King have a monotube equal or better than Belstein ? Can King make a coilover for my H3 ? How do you compare King Belstein Fox for a Hummer H3 ? What is the best sturdy and smooth ? Some like it Dirty I like it Sturdy.
Hi Daniel, there is a lot more to it than that, you may want to check out or video on Ride Quality: th-cam.com/video/FtAP774EaIA/w-d-xo.html
+Filthy Motorsports I have watched your videos, I still would like your opinion or comparison between the King and a Fox they both seem higher quality than belstein. I simply want the best choice. I have oe ac delco now. You gave me a good explanation of the deficiency of belstein thank you. Does King make a shock for a hummer that meets oe specs, I dont mind a 1.5 inch lift front, this is what I am coming to conclude. I trust your best judgement. Thank you.
I'm
when you put 2 springs for 1000lbs (200lbs spring) ,so the car go lower not to 10 inch but 2.5 inch!
Dude my names Filthy Rich my mom named me that in 1964 i had greasey hands and she said your filthy Rich hence my name
Can I get the springs in red 😆
my coil/spring just snapped on my king coil overs pulling out of my driveway...... fml.
On a new or used set? Did you order them from us? That is highly unusual unless the springs are old, rusted and/or abused.
good morning. I purchased the superlift suspension kit that comes with the king coil overs. it's a complete kit. put around 3k miles on my truck everything plus truck was all brand new. never left the road and the coil just snapped...
did Not purchase from you guys.. you just seem very informative & thought I see why it happend or what I should do. it's sitting very uneven now. is it very bad for the other side or my bushings and things?? thank u so much for your time
Email me a few photos (sales@filthymotorsports.com) and I'll see what I can do. I assume you tired reaching out to the vendor you purchased the kit through?
the delay after when he said,"HI" was for "I'm a genius of this shit"
??
This was absolutely pointless for me he’s talking about trucks.
The concepts still hold true, however, race car dynamics are very different from rock crawlers, desert trucks, and mud trucks. This video is definitely focused more on the latter.