"Tim Duncan is Overrated" Stop Lying about Duncan’s Career
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YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW GOOD TIM DUNCAN WAS OMG YOU HAVE NO IDEA GOW GOOD TIM DUNCAN WAS
W unc
Yes we do 😂 his career ended a decade ago not 30 years, we watched him
Blud was genuinely tweaking
Spent half of career below 50% as a big.
@@FlexSZN23at least he’s not a dead rapist
This is so random. Tim Duncan slander just came outta nowhere
cause of jimmy
@@missioofn8321nah. it’s been happening like weeks before the video. I’ve been seeing it all over tiktok before the vid.
none of it was really slander
Bc people keep putting him in top 3 convos which is crazy
Duncan gets praised more now than he did when he played.
People be saying anything nowadays 😭
Tim Duncan was great and very fundamental
Jimmy is a blazers fan
@@brziperiodya man for real.
Including this dude hating on Sean Elliot like he does in this video. Okay boomer casual.
Jimmy knows what will get clicks. He knows Timmy had become arguably the most respected player ever and knows that hating will get the clicks. I see what you doing Jimmy
@@brziperiodso he clearly knows what a good team is😂😂😂
"Get coached by Ty Lue" is the biggest compliment I've ever seen someone give to Ty Lue 😂
Foreaalll😂
comparing ty lue and gregg popovich 🤦♂️
theres a bigger difference than apples and oranges. . . at least they both fruit 😂
I don't understand what makes ty lue a tire above a frank Vogel or Mike Budenholzer
You can say Mike Brown if you want.
😂😂😂
If Tim Duncan was a “flashy “ player he would be in the Goat convo. Resume speaks for itself .
No he wouldn't, he won 5 titles, but only 3 finals MVPs, he never averaged 30, he never won back to back, let alone a 3peat, and he didn't win a bunch of regular season MVPs. He is a great player but this is wild to claim he wasn't flashy enough, Kareem wasn't flashy, Bill wasn't flashy, hell I don't think wilt would be considered flashy, but all are considered some of the best to ever do it, and 2 of them come up in GOAT conversations all the time.
Not saying 30 is the only stat that matters, but compared to guys like Kareem and wilt who averaged 30 as defensive monsters, it's hard to put Tim over those guys. Hell I'd say If tim didn't get number 5 he would be sitting next to or even behind Hakeem at this point.
Stop this flashy excuse
@@IsaacMSingleton1this is a very stupid take.No way you’re argument is that he didn’t average 30 and then to say he ONLY won 3 fmvp out of his 5 chips like that’s bad.Kareem won 6 rings and only has 2 fmvp.Mvp has became a media driven award for the longest we don’t even really know who deserved it.
@@von1626 yes and Kareem won 2, but Kareem won 1 on 2 separate teams, and was the first player to ever do that, so he has an argument when it comes to finals MVPs, he also was a better scorer than Duncan, arguably a better rebounder, just as good of a defender, also a great leader. I'm just saying I don't think Duncan is the best big man ever, let alone best player ever, and being flashy has 0 to do with it. It's the fact he never was better than Kareem that holds him back from the GOAT conversation. When comparing Tim and Kareem, you see Kareem averaged 34 on 57 percent, Tim averaged 25 on 50, then they are at least comparable everywhere else on the court, I just don't buy that Duncan is held back due to flash.
Tim Duncan was the reason why the Spurs were always a contender.....
Take David Robinson, Sean Elliott, Tony Parker, Manu, Stephen Jackson, away and give him nesterovic, sczerbiak, oluwakandi, Anthony peeler...,..I guarantee things look different and they don't win a title
@@colereviewsytask gregg popovic, he said it countless times that duncan was the reason not the other way around. and the irony is: guess who was the spurs starting center between 2003 and 2006? rasho nesterovic
@@colereviewsytyou can say that to practically every superstar that won it all. No matter how great a player is, a great team is needed to win championships.
@@colereviewsyt You can say this about literally any superstar.
@@colereviewsytdamn so take the whole team wtf this take so trash😂😂
I am afraid that in the next 10-15 years when Jokic retires that we will have some people that legitimately watched him throughout his prime and disrespect his legacy just like Jimmy with Timmy
Yeah, when Luka retires people will say "oh that fat slow kid". Unfortunately, this is how it is.
probbly not jokic is much better than Duncan as a player offensively when you factor in playmaking and scoring . Duncan wasnt that great offensively and always had stacked talent. don't compare Duncan to a guy that cant you triple doubles in his sleep. jokic does more for his team
Hey idiot, jokic isnt close to what duncan was defensively. Also it is much easier for jokic to put up stats now compared to duncan in the 2000s.
No, people will look at his shiny numbers and say, wow he was so great, imagine if he didn't play with scrubs. Timmy is easier to disrespect because he was in a slow era with deflated stats, and his best attributes were defense and leadership, which don't show up in the stat sheet.
Yea jokic and doncic are heading down that path coz they are white
Don't forget that Tony was benched in that 2003 playoff run. Manu was showing flashes but wasn't the guy yet. Robinson was barely holding on as an old man role player who was just a body to put on Shaq. Duncan carried that team and had what should have been credited a quad double in the championship game. They just miscounted the blocks.
35mpg is a lot for a benched player. manu was 26 years old as well... faced no dirk mavs, foot issues shaq, kidd nets... lol he had the better team every series
@@bboywolfthe mavs won just as many game with Dirk as they did without him in that series? Also foot issues Shaq when he played 38 minutes per game?
@@sebastiansanchez375 are you slow? if they won 1 game without him the chances are they win the series lol it was 2-1 game 4 in dallas.
yes shaq foot issues, he played 38 mpg and was dealing with a sore foot and knee all year...100 articles on it, google it lol
@@bboywolf Yeah and? Tony went from the starting pg to the backup pg during the playoff run because he wasn't performing. Manu was still a rookie that wasn't used to the NBA yet. Go watch the finals. The second best player on that team was Stephen Jackson.
@@bboywolf bro Tony Parker was in his second year in the league, nowhere near the all star he would eventually become, and Manu was a ROOKIE. David Robinson was wayyyy past his prime. The Spurs do not win that championship without Tim Duncan.
Tim Duncan disrespect is just nasty.
Jordan is the goat.
Guarantee most of the guys disrespecting Duncan didn’t watch him play his career. Just like young guys who disrespect MJ didn’t watch him play, just some high lights. And they just want to elevate modern guys like LeBron and Steph, that’s all it is.
@@timmyg831you’re just completely wrong. 1 you guys bitch about Lebron all the time “wahh wahh 6 losses” why would Lebron fans downplay someone who beat him?. It’s mainly Jordan and Kobe fans who downplay Timmy. Kobe fans don’t want to admit Kobe wasn’t the best in the 2000s and Jordan fans don’t want to admit the bulls weren’t the greatest. People “disrespect” Jordan because old heads do the same to every modern player.
@@deadlylightningspirit4295 …BS that push that narrative, it’s boring talking about LeBron, you guys and media love talking about him a lot. 🥱 His time has past, there are other players now more exciting to watch.
He said it was a hot take so I think he did what he had to do lol
Thank you LOW. People act like the Spurs were this ultra prestigious franchise before Duncan got there. That’s reverse engineering and revisionist history at its finest.
Only a TRUE dysfunctional organization builds a perfect team around their star player. Actually, the CAVS are a GREAT organization cuz they gave Lebron bums to carry for years
They won 60 games on average for 3 years prior to him being drafted lol before DRob got injured
@@johnfinance8053and what did those seasons lead to? And how was D Rob affected by that injury? The point is people talk about the spurs like they were this dynasty driven franchise when Duncan got there, putting em on the same level as a Boston or LA which is stupid.
The only reason they were able to get Tim Duncan thru the draft was because the 1995 NBA MVP was injured.
@@jayvoorYes but my point is people arguing like the Spurs were some subpar franchise before Duncan got there is just as disingenuous. Lets just be real, they werent a dynasty before he got there but they were still a consistently elite team with the infrastructure to be great. I think Low is combatting a bad point with another bad point
It's crazy how people have re-written history to make the Spurs and Bulls into "all-time great" organizations and front offices to downplay Duncan's and Jordan's greatness. When they have literally done *NOTHING* before or after them.
Gotta spin a narrative to push your favorite player(s), I guess.
Organizations can be run great for a while then be terrible. Krause was objectively great at his job. For a modern example, look at the Warriors
@@ajlundy7550and most would argue alot of that success still hinges on curry, even at bare minimum it’s 50/50 damn near.
@@ajlundy7550yea because those organizations your talking about all had an ALL TIME GREAT PLAYER TO BUILD AROUND 💯
95-96 season: 2nd in conference - Conference Semi-finals
94-95 season: 1st in conference - Conference Finals
93-94 season: 4th in conference - 1st round
92-93 season: 5th in conference - Semifinals
91-92 season: 5th in conference - 1st round
90-91 season: 2nd in conference - 1st round
89-90 season; 2nd in conference - Semifinals
They weren't exactly *terrible* before Duncan. Robinson's age and injuries are part of why they tanked 96-97
@@Dekartz 👏🏽NOW SHOW WHAT SUCESS THEY HAD IN THE PLAYOFFS SINCE DAVID ROBINSON WAS THERE 1 CONF FINALS CORRECT 👏🏽 what an great organization and drafted Sean Elliot over Glen rice what a very smart organization that TIM DUNCAN IS THE REASON WE KNOW THE SPURS FOR WHAT THEY ARE HE MADE THEM WHAT THEY ARE 💯
The people who say “tim had so much help” are the same people that think manu and tony were established nba players for their first chip and not a rookie and sophomore…
Edit:Just got to the bit where Low is going off about this exact thing 🤣
26 year old manu ginobili isn't established enough for you
@@bboywolfthat 7.6 ppg on 44% shooting is definitely established
@@sebastiansanchez375lol 😂
@@getyaphinsup dgaf, did manu flop? he was playing 30mpg lol
@@sebastiansanchez375 he avg 10 in the playoffs and led the team in steals... 10 4 3 1.7 steals is established role player to me lol
Also, this idea that somebody had help and that’s why they were great is dumb. Every great player who had multiple championships had a lot of help. MJ had Pippen, Rodman, Horace Grant. Kobe had Shaq, Pau, and great role players. Curry had KD, Klay, and Draymond. You can’t find a single all time great with multiple championships that didn’t have a lot of help
Exactly. Lebron carried his Cavs to the Finals with no talent only to get bludgeoned by the Spurs who were a far better team. You can't win without a good to great supporting cast.
duncan didnt have to be great offensively he had the luxury of relaxing at times while tony could take over or manu hits a big shot horry stephen jackson steve kerr you name it he had it . he didn't average 30pppg not once in his career he can't be the goat . he's not Leebron Kobe or Jordan and shouldn't be in those discussion
@@ryanr20091 I agree, I don’t thinkthe GOAT, or should even be in the convo. But he’s definitely top 10 all time
Tim stopped Lebron from surpassing MJ in rings
He only had 2 finals MVP though.
Lebron’s booty cheeks management stopped LeBron
@@freetheworld2671Tim has 3 final mvp
Let’s stop this narrative when Kawhi won FMVP in 2014. Steph fans also try and use this narrative and it’s false.
Actually lbj stopped Duncan from being undefeated in the finals like mj
Jxmy wasn't even disrespecting Timmy. He was just saying that the mfs who's saying he's the greatest of all time are capping which, as a spurs fan, he's not wrong. He's the greatest pf of all time but not the greatest ever
U not a real spurs fan if u don’t got tim Duncan top 3 all time
Barely anyone calls him the GOAT that’s a stupid point
Nah nobody is saying Duncan is the goat. Obviously those people are delusional, but having a problem with him being top 5 is insane.
@@boubacardiallo5945Most people say he is top 5 all time which is ridiculous,tell me why he should be top 5-6 all time
@@engidohaile201Why shouldn't he be? After Bron, Jordan, and Kareem, there's a lot of room for interpretation depending on what you value personally.
"So I was on Twitter." And thats where you fucked up😭🤣😭🤣
You can an argurment for 11 guys beings GOATs. However in my opinion Tim is in the 6 to 10 range.
No Sean Elliott slander, dude was a decent starter for a long time.
So just forget about the David Robinson era prior to Duncan right ? Forget they won 62 games 2 years prior to Duncan rookie year lol. They were establishing a winning culture before Duncan. That injury to Robinson just happened to time perfect with Duncan coming out the same year. I’m not saying without Duncan they still go on to have the same success.. but to use switching head coaches and role players in years prior but undermining what the organization and Robinson were still accomplishing as your rebuttal is kinda odd lol. Idk i think Jimmy is kinda on par with how Duncan’s career should be viewed. He was never known to be the best player in the league , just a great consistent player that knew how to play the game the right way combined with Pops system lol
But that's the thing; perspective is not everything... We live in a time where this type of logic is the bread and butter of how think and that's not right.
it’s not hate or disrespect at all, he’s just saying that recently people have been acting like he’s top 3 of all time
So what??
You can still make the case nah?
@@bigfundamental1096pretty debunked case tbh
The big issue I had was when he knocked Duncan for having HOF players and coaches. If you look at most of the players considered top 10 players ever, damn near every one of them needed HOF players/coaches to win championships.
Jordan won 6 and he had Pippen, Phil Jackson and Rodman (second 3 peat).
Kareem won 6 and he had Oscar Robertson and Bob Dandridge (Milwaukee) and Magic, James Worthy, Silk Wilkes, and Pat Riley (Lakers). (Also Bob McAdoo)
Magic won 5 and he had Kareem, Worthy, Wilkes and Pat Riley. (Also Bob McAdoo)
Larry Bird won 3 and he had Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, and Dennis Johnson. (Also Tiny Archibald and Bill Walton)
Shaq won 4 and he had Kobe, Phil Jackson, Wade, and Pat Riley.
Kobe won 5 and he had Shaq, Phil, and Pau Gasol.
Lebron won 4 and he had/has Wade, Bosh, Erik Spoelstra, Kyrie, and AD. (Also Ray Allen)
Steph won 4 and he had/has Klay, Draymond, Steve Kerr, and KD.
It doesn't make sense knocking Tim Duncan for winning 5 championships with a HOF coach (Pop) and some HOF teammates (Parker, Ginobili, David Robinson, Kawhi) if you're not going to do the same to the others.
Lebrons is disingenuous. What was Bosh, Kyrie or Love doing before pairing with Lebron. What have they done since? The only proven star was Wade and he was 2-3 years away from his knees giving out.
@@panashe5268 This wasn't about them. They were stars on bad/mediocre teams who won when they got to play next to an all time great. My point was that most top 10 players win championships with great players and coaches and that shouldn't be used to discredit them.
@@panashe5268 well then Lebron fans are just the best at being victims lol. Every time dude lost and you all acted as if he had YMCA rosters, lol. No wonder stars do not want to join him, because once dude hog the ball, and the team lose, its everyone's fault but Lebron. "But but Lebron averaged... and his team only averaged..." What law says all stats are equal, especially postseason stats ? Julian Edelman has postseason stats comparable of Jerry Rice, has 3 rings like Rice, 1 SB MVP like Rice. So... Edelman = top 5 wide receiver all time ? Also, Lebron is the king of cap and y'all look at the world under the same lense as him, acting as if he was relatable. Good lord, niggas, please.
@@panashe5268what was Lebron doing be fair when it time to be fair Lebron wasn’t doing anything either
More Finals mvps and regular mvps than Kobe yet you guys say he's overrated 🤣🤣🤣
The whole Kawhi arc shows how much the "hyper competent franchise" narrative is bogus ! They had a generational player, capable of shutting down mfing Lebron James, but made a mess with him because he had a bit much more ego than Ducan (and the man seems to have been right about his poor health).
The had A LOT of luck and maybe some good scouting talent to get Ducan, Wembanyama, Robinson, and especially Kawhi (nobody predicted him to be this good). They have some skills and competence yes, to devellop these players but they had incredible luck in getting them in the first place, and at the right time too. they had to go and get international players like Parker and Ginobili to make it work, nobody in the league with Ginobili talent at that time could have made sacrifices like him (becoming a 6th man) and, in a way, it's unheard of since (Westbrook was considered washed by many when he made that move and that's the closest, no #2 on a team makes that kind of sacrifice).
in 15 years, Tim Duncan had 5 titles in an era he had to face Kobe and Shaq, Lebron with the Heat (Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh), the Bad Boys Pistons, The Durant, Harden, Westbrook Thunder, the Steve Nash Suns, The Kobe and Gasol Lakers. So many great teams it really is incredible that they had so many titles.
The only constants are Popovich, an unproven coach and Duncan, the power foward capable of going toe to toe with Shaq. Guess who they think is overrated?
They were actively making the playoffs every year with DR then tanked effectively to get tim, then won the finals the next season. THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN BY ACCIDENT. put some respect on the spurs
Did you not hear about the amount of coaches they had in a ten year span? Also does that mean the nuggets were very competent when they had Melo because they made the playoffs almost every year and had the same number of conference finals appearances?
even with the changing of coaches they were consistently making deepish playoff runs multiple times. And no the nuggets were not competent with melo because they got bounced out the playoffs every year in the first round. it takes a competent organization to make good changes when you see your team not reach their peak.@@sebastiansanchez375
@@sebastiansanchez375You don’t win 50+ games for nearly a decade straight without being a competent franchise. Who cares if the coaches change if their record is great?
Facts I was just thinking bout this Gilbert arenas said this on his podcast
6:07 Look at those records tho. The team was almost in the playoffs every year and pretty decent at that. Robinson was also hurt the year before Tim came in.
I would take a guy who said Kawhi is barely better than John Stockton opinion with a grain of salt
So why did the AI computer program with no bias That used every number imaginable say Tim Duncan was the second best player of all time.
Source?
@@UTNatlChamps th-cam.com/users/live750T0RA2f60?si=r_eqyKv0Amr2Srra
Look up players choice Tim Duncan goat.
@@dannybachner899 2ndGoat
JimxHighroller is a Kobe stan, any player that threatens Kobe’s place at the all time ranking will be unreasonably criticized.
12:00 Kareem won a chip with Oscar before he got to the Lakers. Js
Ion like how low just put ty lue in the same convo as pop riles and phil like cmon bruh. Yk lebron hasnt had nearly the front office’s these other dudes had. You coulda left bron alone
Finally i see someone who gets how great Timmy was plus he did all of that in 19 seasons and same team with out asking a Manager what players he wants
I’m a Spurs fan and the the Spurs org/Pop argument is kinda silly. Jordan, Kobe, and Shaq all had Phil Jackson. The Lakers are a powerful organization that are able to sign essentially any player they want. But this argument is held only to Duncan.
I will always stand on Timmy being 4th all time.
Timmy got his while Shaq, Kobe, Dirk, and LBJ played in their prime.
Low is laughably incorrect about the Sputs b4 Tim Duncan. They were in the playoffs every year after drafting Robinson and even when they lost in the playoffs, it was to either the WCF champs or the NBA Finals champ. They were a 55+ win team from 88-89 to 95-96, 5 out of 7 years during that span.
Spurs did not win any rings without Duncan.
@@ed4l63 they had an mvp and multiple 55+win seasons
@@bboywolf with nothing to show for it though. At some point, you have to want to be champions. Not just a great regular season team.
I mean what so you think of the mid 2000’s to 2011 nuggets who had melo? They had 4 50+ win seasons and a 49 win season between 2004/05 - 2010/11 and had the same number of WCF appearances as Robinson had prior to Duncan getting drafted? And made the playoff every year of his career?
@@ed4l63 that means they literally added tim duncan to a 55+ win team with an mvp hof player lol no other top 10 player ever joined a team that successful
W take Low
Bro, Tim Duncan is in my top5. He was my top4 but with Lebrons record breaking of points, he went to 5th and Lebron os #4 now.
I think he's competing with Magic for the 5th all time.
Saying the Spurs weren't competent before Duncan arrived doesn't mean they were so when he was there lol, Jimmy was right.
They made consistently great moves and freshened up their roster for over 17 years.
Because Timmy made it happen. The organization completely collapsed without him.
@@jwc7215 if they don’t lose Kawhi, they would still be one of the better teams in the Western Conference
You just contradicted yourself
Because they drafted Duncan dumbazzz...
Tim Duncan is overrated because the people ahead of him ALL HAD BETTER PEAKS/RESUMES THAN HIM. It’s that simple, Ion even know why Low uploaded this video spewing nonsense, yelling at the camera thinking he’s right. This man just said that Magic was coached by Phil Jackson. Prime example of a content creator who doesn’t prep before uploading, and just speaks off of emotion. Shit sad frfr 😂
Also, it’s sports, just because you’re the better team ON PAPER, doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re the better team CHEMISTRY WISE. But of course Low being the all-world athlete that he is would know it all 😎
When the hell did Kobe have a playoff run like Duncan in 2003. You are so slow you think averaging 35 points on a losing team is better than carrying a team who wouldn't make the playoffs without you to a championship. Try to think a little before you post
I think my most fucking hated critique of tim duncan by casuals isn't here, but it's that "he never faced big competition in the finals" I don't even remember who initially said this take, i believe it was a youtuber maybe bsolz? idk but it got traction.
yeah it's totally tim duncans fault that the eastern conference was a fucking garbage fire after jordan left and all his toughest matchups were before the finals. really lets judge him for that; ignoring the all time great talent they fucking beat.
Players are not the system. Pop, RC and Duncan built the system. Robinson built the character of the franchise.
Saying that the players changed actually supports the system argument, but you don't seem to realize it
It takes a well ran team and organization to only miss the playoffs 4 times since their INCEPTION (pre 2020).
Just looked it up and saw that Jimmy Highroller has over 2 million subscribers…. I never heard of him and I’m glad I haven’t, idk how he has a following because that guy’s basketball knowledge is WAY below mine 🤷🏽♂️
Tim Duncan literally made the spurs the historic franchise they are today. He's like Tom Brady to the partriots. He's establish that culture and reverence they just done a good job keeping it (not thr winning) since he retired
Jimmy Highroller made an updated Goat pyramid not too long ago, the old one is the one on screen
Jimmy must have signed with Klutch sports. We all know he calls Lebby his King. Probably wants to lie on Duncan for his Kings sake.
You clearly didn't watch the Jimmy video bc he slanders LeBron. Secondly, downplaying Duncan would be downplaying Bron's competition, so it only helps LeBron for Duncan to be uplifted instead of slandered. You gotta think before you speak, or ur gonna just look like a hater.
I was waiting for this because Jxmmy was outta pocket for that I’m a diehard lifelong San Antonio Spurs fan pre David Robinson so I’ve been here throughout it all, to say Timmy is overrated is like spitting in that man’s face. I’m still baffled at how he didn’t win 1 DPOY, but has been talked about as arguably the greatest defender of all time just because you don’t like consistency and someone who isn’t flashy doesn’t mean they don’t warrant the spot in historically top 5 or otherwise.
That 2003 run is the second greatest of all time after the 95 rockets in my opinion 💯
My absolute favorite games to watch growing up were KG vs Duncan and KG vs Weber.
Literally every time was a good time.
But fvck bro, Tim was an absolute unit and steady eddy.
Those fing bank shots bro
The spurs are an organization of success because before and while tim was there they made it to the playoffs almost every year maybe didn't win the finals but made it to the playoffs
Saying Tim Duncan is overrated is like saying ice cream is overrated! San Antonio did nothing before Tim Duncan and everything when he came there
I don't completely disagree with a lot of what LOW said but you also made some really disingenuous points. Sure the Spurs fired multiple head coaches before Duncan but they also won an average of 58 games in the 3 seasons prior... FIFTY EIGHT. You then mentioned how they haven't been great since Duncan left even though they won 67 and 61 games in back to seasons, a FRANCHISE RECORD with him practically retired. Even after Kawhi left they were a 50 win team before completely rebuilding which most teams eventually do. It just feels like some of the arguments were in bad faith is all.
Tim played in the 67 win season bro.
And outside of the 1 season after Duncan retired they haven’t won 50 games in a season.
@@sebastiansanchez375 You're right he did my bad but he was hardly a star at that point. Again I think he's one of the greats, I just think we dont need to pretend the Spurs haven't been successful without him. We can just appreciate his greatness without creating narratives
LOW didn’t bring up production either, he talked about status. Someone can be a rookie and average 20/5/5. Just cause you’re new to the league doesn’t mean you can’t hoop or outplay other superstars especially in a 7 game series. Magic won FMVP in his rookie season…
The Tim Duncan disrespect is definitely crazy. Duncan faced the Shaq/Kobe Lakers 4 times in the playoffs and went 2-3.
'98-'99 - Spurs won 4-0. Phil Jackson wasn't coach for the Lakers yet.
'00-'01 - Lakers won 4-0.
'01-'02 - Lakers won 4-1. However, Duncan was clearly the best player on the court. He led both teams in scoring, rebounding, and blocks, and tied for the second most steals.
'02-'03 - Spurs won 4-2.
'03-'04 - Lakers won 4-2. Spurs lost Robinson and Lakers added Malone and Payton.
Duncan definitely held his own against one of the greatest teams ever that had two top 10 (or top 15 at worst) players off all-time. But Duncan gets diminished for having Pop, who ended up being one of the greatest coaches ever, but Shaq and Kobe don't get diminished for having Jackson who was arguably THE greatest coach ever even before he joined the Lakers? Get that crap out of here.
Hakeem was better
@@ryanr20091 Oh absolutely! Olajuwon is my favorite player of all time.
@@celestialdemon1316 yeah that's why I'm not all that impressed with duncan . I have seen much better.
wouldn’t say tim duncan is overrated. tim is exactly who he is and was. Is he the greatest power forward ever…NO, ESPN has helped push that narrative. How when he played most of his career as a center. Is he a top 5 player ever…NO. How when you have the KB24’s,The Birds,The Magic Johnsons,The LBJ’s, The Kareem and Jordans. Is he a top 5 PF…Yes? In our opinion the greatest pf of all time debate should rightfully go to the always underrated Karl Malone. People forget that TD came in the league at the right time and dominated a league that became guard orriented . But let’s not forget when he entered the league the eldestatemen of the PF position was Malone who was STILL dominating the league and the position for 6-8 yrs afterwards. People ALWAYS FORGET smh
Tim Duncan was AMAZING!!!
Duncan created the dynasty, not inherited it
Didn’t Duncan get a ring in his second season? Duncan is 2-1 against lebron in the finals and could of been 3-0 if Ray Allen didn’t make that 3 in game 6 and next year did them dirty with a gentleman sweep. He is the greatest powerfoward ever.
He is overrated, not a role player obviously but he’s the only one in the top 10 convo who gets none of the same pushback the rest get. If anybody you want to compare him with had two stars in Ginobli/TP the whole time they would have repeated, not losing to 8 seeds and losing in the Olympics. You don’t hear anybody talk about any of his failures (because they didn’t watch and get their opinions from revisionists)
I mean everybody has those same failures, wether it’s wilt literally being able to barley win a chip, Bill playing against ppl who still had day jobs, LeBron in ‘11, MJ getting dog walked by the pistons and essentially dodging Hakeem. Also like showed in the video, these players essentially grew together, manu rookie and TP 2nd year. There is no way to know how good those two become with anyone not named Tim Duncan and I have no reason to assume it would’ve worked bc you have situations like Vince n Tracy etc.
@@calebstevens9446 Except everyone else gets knocked for it and nobody says anything about Duncan because they didn’t watch basketball till 2015. Losing in the Olympics & losing to an 8 seed is generational losing that nobody else would get away with. Tony & Manu were 25ppg caliber guys who sacrificed immensely to be Spurs and now a bunch of teens act like Duncan played with role players
@@businessk3014that’s just not true. The main discredit I see for Duncan is that he’s never been able to defend his championship with ample opportunity. Which is a completely fair criticism, but the only time you need to pull out that stain is if you’re speaking to some1 who has Duncan much higher than he’s supposed to be, anytime any1 has him 5-8, everybody just goes “huh yeah” and moves on. There’s nothing to say, as long as they stay consistent in THEIR list and what they value.
@@calebstevens9446 everything I said was a fact. You being super sensitive to anything negative about Duncan doesn’t negate it. You lost a bunch of criticism about actual top 10 guys and everyone has heard it a million times, I say Duncan lost to an 8 seed and people don’t even know what I’m talking about. Hes not held to a fraction of the standard the rest are
@@businessk3014 idek what you’re saying anymore I’m a clippers fan with no loyalty to Duncan. This is y I can’t have conversations with niggas anymore. “Sensitive to criticism”? Huh?????????????? I think we’re done speaking.
It cracks me up every time low starts to pop off. You would think he hates doing this but ik he loves it. He be so annoyed, pissed, and talking crazy EVERY VIDEO then he ends the video so chill it’s always a fun watch😂
What people mean about consistency they mean about spurs front office making great decisions throughout duncan’s career and barely wasting his career like the lakers did with kobe (in his prime) for example, also gregg popovich wasn’t a rookie coach his whole career bruh, he literally became a top 3 coach ever if not 1. I got Duncan top 4 all time tho, he’s done a lot with no much help compared to other greats.
What has he done after ? Look at spurs now they got a generational talent are they good ? Yes the game have change but still pops can’t make miracles happen the players can .
Pop is only top 3 coaches because he had Duncan. Before and after Timmy he did nothing but lose.
@@holypopy wemby is in his rookie season bruh you can’t expect them being a playoff team just because he got there and after duncan spurs were actually a great team until kawhi left and then after 2019 they were on rebuild and now they got wemby, coaches are a big part of a team success and if you don’t realize that go watch more ball
@@jwc7215 phil jackson had mj, pippen, shaq and kobe, spo had d wade, lebron, bosh, jimmy, kerr had kd, steph, curry, klay, out of all those coaches pop had the less talent and still got more chips than all of them but phil, after duncan spurs actually got very good seasons until kawhi left and made the playoffs until 2019, they had one of the worst teams until now. Duncan didn’t make him a top 3 coach, pop made himself a top 3 coach ever. Without pop duncan doesn’t have at much success and without duncan pop neither.
He beat those players during their “Peak”
No player in NBA history has won more than 1 title without a current All-NBA teammate.
Apart from Duncan, who did it 4 times.
Top 5 all time without question.
Exactly most people don't know that because they think of Tony Parker and manu in the late 2000s. No one won with less
@@dannybachner899 Seriously. I absolutely love Tony and Manu but they were borderline all-stars during their primes.
He was surrounded by Hall of Famers his entire career. They were a 60 win team before they got him.
@@theincandescent1 And how many players were on that 60 win team that were still on the team when Duncan got there. Lol
@@theincandescent130+ years in the NBA and the team haven’t even made a finals without him. Being a a good regular season team isn’t success, is it?
HOF is such a weak argument, and one lead by people who can’t comprehend that players don’t play the same every season, do they?
To be fair Phil Jackson was a rookie coach when he took over the Bulls too
I agree with Jimmy
i think Duncan is clearly behind jordan, lebron, shaq, and kareem, but after that, i could see him being as high as 5, and he's certainly top 10. the man just got it done year in and year out and was just good at literally everything. also the spurs would have won 0 rings without Duncan. they had minimal success before him and minimal success after him. only other point i can make is that you are incorrect about Kareem not sniffing a championship for a decade, he literally won in his second season with his best supporting player being a declining Oscar Robertson. and he won MVP that year.
How is he clearly behind Shaq?
6:00, ok this is a straight up lie, the spurs where mostly successful in the 90's baring that year before Duncan arrived.
90-96 then 98 onwards the spurs were successful. Do ur research youngin before u spread misinformation.
I wonder who was drafted for the 1998 season that led to all that success that I’m sure has been maintained since his retirement.
@@sebastiansanchez375 True but that doesn't sound like a counter to what he said, apparently they were still a good team 59-23 and even the year before that, btw they got the #1 pick because of that David Robinson injury so they were actually successful before TD just once TD came in they were MORE successful. Also, Tim Duncan was a role player in the 2015-16 season and they went 67-15 second seed, sure you can say tim duncan was a fair leader but they had kawhi and Lamarcus Aldridge, duncan was at 8.3ppg, next year without time duncan (he retired) they were 61-23, they actually dropped the year after to 47-35 (7th seed) because kawhi got injured and funny enough after kawhi went to go play with the raptors and win a championship they were still 7th seed 48-34. I mean I do like listening to LOW's but ngl he is actually kinda delusional here. As @charles9489 said he is actually spreading misinformation ironically as he claims others are spreading misinformation.
@@richardsaid973 yeah duncan was a role player at times and really wasn't ever good enough to be on par with the goats offensively.
Legend of Pissing
Lebron just gets the “bouncing around” lol SMH
He said “got coached by Ty lue” like that means anything.
Which is a very casual/disingenuous take anyway when you sit back and think that in 21 years, he's only played for 3 teams. People just get mad about Bron changing teams bc he didn't wait til his career was almost over to change teams.
There is a legitimate case to be made that Tim Duncan is top three all time with Jordan and LeBron, bumping out Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
What's the case? Kareem is the most accomplished basketball player of all-time. If anyone is getting pushed out then it's Jordan for having a losing record without Pippen or Bron for only having 4 rings in 20 years.
@@lookatcodyman654 Duncan was a better defender than Jabbar and had to uplift rosters that were arguably less talented around him than Jabbar had to when the latter began to win championships, especially when comparing the two when they were starting off. While Duncan had very little roster consistency and his main co star was an injury impacted David Robinson and two unproven players at the time in Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli, Kareem was surrounded by guys like Bob Dandrige and Oscar Robinson, as well as important secondary pieces like John McGlocklin, with Lucius Allen later coming into the picture for the brunt of his run with the Bucks. You can even argue that later in their careers that, while reduced in their dependency on him, Duncan was still the centerpiece of the Spurs team on the offensive and defensive side of the ball in contrast to Kareem who, while very much important to the 80s Lakers no doubt, was second to Magic. Duncan was also arguably the better rebounder of the two, especially on the defensive side of the glass in the low post when looking at their per 100 possessions stats head to head. To be fair to Kareem, the first four years of his career when it comes to rebounding stats are not recorded, so it does leave a bit of a data gap. Additionally, when it comes to raw numbers, Kareem does have the leg up on Duncan. Another stat in Duncan's favor is his VORP rating as he is almost a full 6 points clear of Kareem when it comes to VORP, registering a 91.1 career rating to Kareem's 85.7. It isn't a seismic gap, but it is enough of one that still shows a difference and that is despite Duncan playing one less season. On top of that, while Kareem's career peak saw meteoric numbers in Box Plus/Minus whether it was overall, offensive exclusively, or even at times on the defensive end, the tail off of those Box Plus/Minus numbers later in his Lakers run was very noticeable to where it even began to dip into the negatives. Now...that should be expected for a player when they get older, but in Duncan's case that's not as such. Duncan never had a single season where he had a negative overall Box Plus/Minus. In fact his Box Plus/Minus in his final year wasn't only a positive score, but his defensive Box Plus/Minus was still as high as it was in his prime and led the league at 3.1. Even with age reducing his role offensively, Duncan was still a massive contributor to the Spurs defense in his final years in the league. Now again, due to a lack of data missing, Kareem's Box Plus/Minus scores are technically incomplete, so I am only working from the data available. Still, from start to finish, Duncan was the bedrock for Popovich to build his system off of for the Spurs. I think that both players are elite centers and the margin between the two of them is slim. That said, I think because of his longevity as a focal point to the Spurs throughout his entire career, especially on the defensive side of the ball, Tim Duncan has the slightest edge over Kareem. It's so close though that I can accept people still rating Kareem higher than Duncan and putting Duncan as either a 3B or 4th. Kareem is one of the greatest centers in the history of the NBA. The only reason why I say Duncan would push out Kareem instead of LeBron and Jordan is because they both play an inherently more valuable position in the NBA as ball dominant wings who control possession the majority of the game and have the offense run through them as opposed to the big man.
@@lookatcodyman654didn’t kareem famously struggle before Magic got to LA?
@@sebastiansanchez375 In Kareem's first season in LA, with Lucius Allen following him there from the Bucks, the Lakers went 40-42 missing the playoffs and finishing one win below their expected win total of 41. In Kareem's defense, he did have to carry a semi depleted Lakers team. Outside of Allen, the only co star Kareem had with the Lakers in year one was Gail Goodrich. This forced Kareem to put up astronomical numbers on both ends of the court and be an elite ball distributor for the team to even have a shot. Numbers which propelled him to be the league MVP over Dave Cowens and Bob McAdoo, two of the elite centers in the NBA during the 70s that also had fantastic seasons in 75-76. The Lakers also had to move Bill Sharman out of the coaching seat and into the GM office, because, by that point, he lost the Laker locker room after an abysmal 30-52 season the year before. In fact, it got somewhat tougher for Kareem as Jerry West came on as a rookie head coach and they had to lean even more on Kareem after Goodrich left and put their hopes on Lucius Allen and Cazzie Russel, who had an abysmal year before, to be his supporting cast. Kareem, as expected, stepped up to the plate and had another monster year and got rewarded with back to back MVPs and got LA back to the playoffs only to be bounced by the eventual NBA Champions in the Portland Trail Blazers, but no harm no foul there. They remedied the roster issues in the late 70s by getting Adrian Dantley, Jamaal Wilkes, and Charles Scott through trades and adding Norm Nixon through the draft to stay competitive and it made Kareem's job easier. Still, it was clear that they needed something else and Jerry West, as serviceable as he was, maxed out his potential with that team as coach. Seeing the writing on the wall, Sharman swapped Dantley for a now 31 year old Spencer Haywood to be a role player, drafted Magic Johnson, put Paul Westhead and later Pat Riley in charge, and the rest is history. Long story short, yes Kareem needed Magic to win rings in LA but it wasn't like Jabbar got the late 60s and early 70s Laker teams to play with either. The Lakers got Jabbar from the Bucks because they needed to start from scratch in order to keep up with the Celtics.
how are we gonna penalize tim duncan for playing with a hof teammate and hof coach, but then still consider jordan the goat?? wouldn’t he also have to suffer those same penalties?
Duncan is great, but placing him in the top ten is a big ask.
Does LOW understand that this was a hot take?
So? A hot take is something you believe in that others disagree with. For example "Wemby is a top 10 player". I don't believe it but you might.
There is no way anyone who knows basketball would talk about Duncan like that
@@arvidbjoerk5307 if you really think jimmy believes what he said about in Duncan than go ahead, I’m just making sure it’s understood that this was a hit take
Just because it was a hot take, doesn’t mean he has to like it.
@@BederProductionswhy would make a take you don’t believe??? Tf lol
Hot take doesn’t mean it’s void of criticism, it simply means it’s an opinion that would generally go against popular belief and potentially upset people.
I hate the HOF teammates argument for any player bc it’s contextless. It doesn’t show how good they were at the time. Tim Duncan won FOUR rings where he was the best player on a team with no other all nba level talent. Robinson wasn’t all nba in 99, TP or Manu wasn’t all nba in 03 05 or 07 and they were each AS reserves once in 05 and 07. No one else in the top 50 oat can say that they won more than 1 in those conditions but TD has 4. Mike did it in 91, Hakeem in 94, Dirk in 2011, Greek in 2021, Jokic last year. These rings are looked at as carry jobs but for Tim it’s like oh well the spurs were too good. Talk about goal post moving holy shit lmao
Spurs fans know the truth Duncan was the system
I’ll take Tim over any big man drafted after 2000. He wasn’t just good. He was dependable as hell.
The Spurs were always consistent. Not always the same players but ALWAYS a good team. And how many players... only all time greats who had great teammates like Tim had LoL. Jimmy said nothing wrong in his video.
EXACTLY
Prior to TD... how many times did they even sniff the finals? Maybe once... they lost in the wcf... consistent, but never as consistent as they were when td arrived.
You can't compare the Spurs before Pop ran the show as GM and coach, with afterwards. It became vastly different. The Spurs after that point are the model that every small market team tries to follow. They made the playoffs 20 years in a row, and won a title after Timmy's decline. Why are you trying to say the Spurs weren't a premier organization during Ducan's career? Pop is venerated as one of the greatest coach's ever. Are you denying that cuz that was part of the point Higholler was making. Also, when has an NBA org gotten more buy in by their 3 best players? Duncan, Parker and Ginobli are still pretty much on the team.
Tony Parker really went his whole career getting and all even haircut with no fade or edge up
As a Lakers fan, Kobe had the better peak overall, but Duncan had more consistency throughout his entire career and I really wished Kobe and Duncan had a chance to play and win together. That would have been a new threepeat maybe even four peat duo
At the end of the day Tim Duncan having an arguable top 10 peak and top 5 defensive peak along with his goat level longevity is what would get him in the top 5. But if you value peak over everything saying at his best Duncan is one of the 3 best players ever is kinda crazy. Just depends on what you value
I feel like your arguments didn't really even adress what he's getting at. The video your reacting to basically states that Duncan was consistently around talent and good coaching which may have elevated his resume and led to him being overrated. Although its hard to blame duncan for things out of his own control but it is factual that he had a lot of support achieving his accolades. I think its also important to note that Tim Duncans personal statistics are not as impressive as those ranked above or around him, but we respect his impact in winning to establish his value. Thats why the fact that he had so much help is detrimental to his argument for top 5.
tim duncan and billlrussel have a similar problem when it comes to them being in the same class Lebron Jordan Kobe . they just didn't score enough and times looked like role players instead of superstars. hell, what makes Duncan even better than ''prime' shaq? there was never a time period where Duncan was better than his contemporaries even when he won that first title he wasn't better than shaq. you always had guys better than Duncan as players overall whether it was shaq kobe and later Lebron and wade Howard. that last title he was a role player barely in double digits
Duncan has a winning finals record over LBJ 2-1
And? What does team success have to do with individuals
Steph Curry and Tim Duncan have a lot in common now that I’m hearing his arguments. Both had rookie head coaches and Warriors hadn’t won a championship in 40 years until Steph won.
its called "Own Opinion" whats wrong with that?
Is it also an "opinion" to just provide factually false information? Cause that's what Jimmy did. Look man, I love Jimmy, easily my favorite basketball YTer and it's not even close but dick riding is just terrible. If someone makes a mistake, you call them out on it no matter who it is or how much you like them.
What is actually happening is people are seeing how ludicrous the LeBron goat debate is, and they’re just throwing anybody in the goat debate now. Because if you’re calling LeBron the goat then you’re definitely overrating him. But yes Timmy is top 10 no question.
First, I would like to say I enjoy hearing your opinion on this matter and especially the intensity you have - Shows how much you care about Duncan and his legacy. But I have to admit it is a bit distracting when you yell into the mic. I have to adjust the volume multiple times throughout your video. I think you can keep this intensity without shouting so close to the microphone.
If the full video said that this was a take with no background or research before the take on Tim Duncan. That was the point of the video to start shit up😅
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Jimmy is not disrespecting Tim Duncan whatsoever, he's just saying he's (slightly) outside of the top 5 and giving credit to how good the Spurs system was. I think that is absolutely true. He should be in everyone's top 10, but putting him in top 3-5 is a bit much imo
People really have magic in their top 5 even tho he got drafted with The Goat Kareem (at the time) and to one of the greatest franchises ever but in the same breath will slander Tim for having pop and fucking Manu on his team🤦🏾♂️
The spurs organization = pop he was the coach and personnel decision maker. Counting everything before and nothing after is losing the whole point
Why is it that every top 10 player has to be torn down? Holy shit, and with Timmy, a guy who don’t give af and NEVER promoted himself, is getting slander. Whyyyy
I think Duncan revaluation is connected to Jokic and vice versa... The way Duncan led mid players with the example, being unselfish, giving them confidence and doing the easiest thing possible... We know how much Jokic changes the shooting percentages of his teammates, i think Duncan did something similar
This shit made me stand up and cheer. Disrespecting Duncan is a litmus test to see exactly how much you really know about basketball. Guys like Manu and Parker great players but only in the Hall because they rode Timmy there. Only Kawhi was good enough to win a title as a #1.
Tim Duncan was a generational player. He was the one who changed the spurs and made them into the great organization we see them as today. What was Chicago before Jordan made them into what they were? There’s a lot of teams who benefited from 1 generational player and for the spurs it was Tim. Will I put Tim in my top 10? No, I remember hating the spurs back then and I’m a bulls fan. Not a hate of malice but respected and wish the bulls back then can draft a player and build around him just like the spurs did with Duncan
Thanks for this man.
Thats like people giving Belichek all these kudos when before Brady he was 45% win rate.
Annoying man...
i think the spurs not being a great franchise before tim got there doesnt matter. timmy played for the spurs for 20 years and yes when he got there the spurs sucked but that doesnt change that while he was there they made all the right decisions to support him. they brought the right players, the cemented a great culture, they gave freedom to pop to do whatever the fuck he wanted, etc. how many times we see teams waste a superstar by making all the wrong choices. that shit has nothing to do with the team history. the fact that timmy was great doesnt mean you can take away the help the spurs gave to him. i agree that tim duncan is underrated not overrated but tim is not the same player without manu tony pop and the spurs front office making the right moves
that being said timmy pretty much won the first 2 titles by himself. but i doubt he would have been able to win the rest without the others helping him
I’m not saying agree but what were those team records before Tim got there? Lol looks like 50 win teams
Low yelling aging David Robinson, at first I heard Asian David Robinson. I'm like wtf was the Asian David Robinson?
My top starting lineup that I've had the opportunity to watch would be:
C: Shaquille O'neil
PF: Tim Duncan
SF: Lebron James
SG: Michael Jordan
PG: Stephen Curry
I can't imagine putting anyone else other than Tim Duncan as PF. Huge David Robinson fan and Hakeem was incredible but Shaq was just otherworldly. Rest are just obvious choices.
Yeah, Duncan sacrificed numbers during most of his prime to help elevate Parker and Ginobili and others. If it was somebody like Kobe he would've requested that player to be traded expeditiously (which he did when it came to Bynum). The fact he trusted the process and the team was able to consistently able to develop good players around Tim with late round draft picks and nobody's shows how great of a player Tim was. You wouldn't get that out of most Superstars outside of LeBron (Maybe) who could elevate a team an organization internally.