Jimmy knows what will get clicks. He knows Timmy had become arguably the most respected player ever and knows that hating will get the clicks. I see what you doing Jimmy
Thank you LOW. People act like the Spurs were this ultra prestigious franchise before Duncan got there. That’s reverse engineering and revisionist history at its finest.
Only a TRUE dysfunctional organization builds a perfect team around their star player. Actually, the CAVS are a GREAT organization cuz they gave Lebron bums to carry for years
@@johnfinance8053and what did those seasons lead to? And how was D Rob affected by that injury? The point is people talk about the spurs like they were this dynasty driven franchise when Duncan got there, putting em on the same level as a Boston or LA which is stupid.
@@jayvoorYes but my point is people arguing like the Spurs were some subpar franchise before Duncan got there is just as disingenuous. Lets just be real, they werent a dynasty before he got there but they were still a consistently elite team with the infrastructure to be great. I think Low is combatting a bad point with another bad point
No he wouldn't, he won 5 titles, but only 3 finals MVPs, he never averaged 30, he never won back to back, let alone a 3peat, and he didn't win a bunch of regular season MVPs. He is a great player but this is wild to claim he wasn't flashy enough, Kareem wasn't flashy, Bill wasn't flashy, hell I don't think wilt would be considered flashy, but all are considered some of the best to ever do it, and 2 of them come up in GOAT conversations all the time.
Not saying 30 is the only stat that matters, but compared to guys like Kareem and wilt who averaged 30 as defensive monsters, it's hard to put Tim over those guys. Hell I'd say If tim didn't get number 5 he would be sitting next to or even behind Hakeem at this point.
@@IsaacMSingleton1this is a very stupid take.No way you’re argument is that he didn’t average 30 and then to say he ONLY won 3 fmvp out of his 5 chips like that’s bad.Kareem won 6 rings and only has 2 fmvp.Mvp has became a media driven award for the longest we don’t even really know who deserved it.
@@von1626 yes and Kareem won 2, but Kareem won 1 on 2 separate teams, and was the first player to ever do that, so he has an argument when it comes to finals MVPs, he also was a better scorer than Duncan, arguably a better rebounder, just as good of a defender, also a great leader. I'm just saying I don't think Duncan is the best big man ever, let alone best player ever, and being flashy has 0 to do with it. It's the fact he never was better than Kareem that holds him back from the GOAT conversation. When comparing Tim and Kareem, you see Kareem averaged 34 on 57 percent, Tim averaged 25 on 50, then they are at least comparable everywhere else on the court, I just don't buy that Duncan is held back due to flash.
I am afraid that in the next 10-15 years when Jokic retires that we will have some people that legitimately watched him throughout his prime and disrespect his legacy just like Jimmy with Timmy
probbly not jokic is much better than Duncan as a player offensively when you factor in playmaking and scoring . Duncan wasnt that great offensively and always had stacked talent. don't compare Duncan to a guy that cant you triple doubles in his sleep. jokic does more for his team
No, people will look at his shiny numbers and say, wow he was so great, imagine if he didn't play with scrubs. Timmy is easier to disrespect because he was in a slow era with deflated stats, and his best attributes were defense and leadership, which don't show up in the stat sheet.
Take David Robinson, Sean Elliott, Tony Parker, Manu, Stephen Jackson, away and give him nesterovic, sczerbiak, oluwakandi, Anthony peeler...,..I guarantee things look different and they don't win a title
@@colereviewsytask gregg popovic, he said it countless times that duncan was the reason not the other way around. and the irony is: guess who was the spurs starting center between 2003 and 2006? rasho nesterovic
@@colereviewsytyou can say that to practically every superstar that won it all. No matter how great a player is, a great team is needed to win championships.
for real. kobe said it himself in an interview, they were always watching out for the spurs; thats how much of a rivalry they had. im sure the spurs say the same thing about the lakers. duncan is one of the greatest to ever play the game and he deserves all the respect and more
I mean tim Duncan was and is the reason Kobe and Lebron don’t have as much titles as they could of had. All while not having another hall of famer in his run. Had elite role players but not HOF. Can’t say the same about Kobe or Lebron.
Don't forget that Tony was benched in that 2003 playoff run. Manu was showing flashes but wasn't the guy yet. Robinson was barely holding on as an old man role player who was just a body to put on Shaq. Duncan carried that team and had what should have been credited a quad double in the championship game. They just miscounted the blocks.
35mpg is a lot for a benched player. manu was 26 years old as well... faced no dirk mavs, foot issues shaq, kidd nets... lol he had the better team every series
@@sebastiansanchez375 are you slow? if they won 1 game without him the chances are they win the series lol it was 2-1 game 4 in dallas. yes shaq foot issues, he played 38 mpg and was dealing with a sore foot and knee all year...100 articles on it, google it lol
@@bboywolf Yeah and? Tony went from the starting pg to the backup pg during the playoff run because he wasn't performing. Manu was still a rookie that wasn't used to the NBA yet. Go watch the finals. The second best player on that team was Stephen Jackson.
@@bboywolf bro Tony Parker was in his second year in the league, nowhere near the all star he would eventually become, and Manu was a ROOKIE. David Robinson was wayyyy past his prime. The Spurs do not win that championship without Tim Duncan.
Before I watch the video, imagine doing exactly what it takes to win 5/6 rings and being called overrated because you didn't play for stats and less to no rings.
I feel the point is how long Duncan had a great situation to keep being relevant. Imagine Jordan as a rookie getting to a team with Dr J still with 4 good years in him. Then as Dr J gets older Jordan gets Pippen, Phill Jackson and 2 other solid role players with potential to be Finals MVP. Also they dont break up in 98 when Jordan is 34, but actually keep going with all of them in their primes until Jordan is 39. Plus Kobe Bryant added to the team instead of Kawhi. See how its actually kinda crazy how good the entire spurs were even without talking about Duncan? Low is just not being honest. Sure all greats had help, but not 16 years of really good help. All the other all time greats achieved close to the same winning than Duncan, but also did it in almost half the window of time Duncan had.
@sergeistalin7916 Tim duncan defined the spurs with his leadership something everyone who played with him says. All greats had alot of help and to be dismissive of his achievements because he was so good for so long is exactly why this video was made. Maybe if Jordan didn't leave his team twice he'd have a similar long career but we're not allowed to diss the golden goat 🤔
Guarantee most of the guys disrespecting Duncan didn’t watch him play his career. Just like young guys who disrespect MJ didn’t watch him play, just some high lights. And they just want to elevate modern guys like LeBron and Steph, that’s all it is.
@@timmyg831you’re just completely wrong. 1 you guys bitch about Lebron all the time “wahh wahh 6 losses” why would Lebron fans downplay someone who beat him?. It’s mainly Jordan and Kobe fans who downplay Timmy. Kobe fans don’t want to admit Kobe wasn’t the best in the 2000s and Jordan fans don’t want to admit the bulls weren’t the greatest. People “disrespect” Jordan because old heads do the same to every modern player.
@@deadlylightningspirit4295 …BS that push that narrative, it’s boring talking about LeBron, you guys and media love talking about him a lot. 🥱 His time has past, there are other players now more exciting to watch.
Despite the coaching situation, the Spurs were primed to get to the NBA finals. Just had to outlast Jordan and Hakeem. Duncan was a mega boost to get them over the top - plus MJ retired lol. Before Robinson got there and plays his rookie season in 1990, the Spurs were 21-61. By the time Duncan got there, David Robinson had already won: ROY, DPOY, MVP, ALL NBA 7x, NBA ALL DEFENSE 7x, 1x scoring champ ... he was a monster. The Spurs record with David Robinson before Timmy got there: 1989 - (21 - 61) 1990 - (56-26) - David Robinson's 1st season. 1991 - (55-27) 1992 - (47-35) 1993 - (49-33) 1994 - (55-27) 1995 - (62-20) 1996 - (59-23) 1997 - (20-62) - David Robinson gets hurt and only plays 6 games 1998 - (56-26) - Duncan's rookie season. 1999 - (37-13) - Shortened (*) season. Won chip. Duncan's 2nd season. Duncan wins finals MVP - Final's averages: 27.4 / 14r / 2.4a / 2.2 blk / 1 stl - Timmy was really that guy. IMO, before the injury David Robinson was on track to being a top 10-15 player all time. Tim took the baton and RAN with it.
A mega boost? The guy was arguably one of the best players in the league by year 2. He’s the greatest power forward ever and arguably the best 2 way player ever. He was highly competitive, smart on and off the court, and a great leader. You young guys are dumb. Period.
@@Vjl5280 Duncan is not a power forward. Biggest lie in the NBA. 9-years at PF and 10 at Center in the NBA. Add his 4 years at Wake Forest. That’s 14 at Center plus his international games at Center. Played in college as a center. Only played PF when David Robinson was on the team out of necessity. Ran the high low like GTown when Alonzo and Dikembe both started. Y’all just tell stories and never watched it live.
Robinson did all of that, yet he still couldn't win a thing until Duncan came along. Its impossible to say he was on track to being a top 10-15 player with absolutely no playoff success on his resume.
It's crazy how people have re-written history to make the Spurs and Bulls into "all-time great" organizations and front offices to downplay Duncan's and Jordan's greatness. When they have literally done *NOTHING* before or after them. Gotta spin a narrative to push your favorite player(s), I guess.
95-96 season: 2nd in conference - Conference Semi-finals 94-95 season: 1st in conference - Conference Finals 93-94 season: 4th in conference - 1st round 92-93 season: 5th in conference - Semifinals 91-92 season: 5th in conference - 1st round 90-91 season: 2nd in conference - 1st round 89-90 season; 2nd in conference - Semifinals They weren't exactly *terrible* before Duncan. Robinson's age and injuries are part of why they tanked 96-97
@@Dekartz 👏🏽NOW SHOW WHAT SUCESS THEY HAD IN THE PLAYOFFS SINCE DAVID ROBINSON WAS THERE 1 CONF FINALS CORRECT 👏🏽 what an great organization and drafted Sean Elliot over Glen rice what a very smart organization that TIM DUNCAN IS THE REASON WE KNOW THE SPURS FOR WHAT THEY ARE HE MADE THEM WHAT THEY ARE 💯
@@DonaldMcLemore-n6d don't be disingenuous. you know damn well shaq wouldn't 3peat without Kobe. Not to mention Kobe had much more impressive finals runs later on in his career without a superstar by his side like shaq had.
@@ballerboi4980 Jordan without Pippen, etc. There's a reason Shaq won all three Finals MVPs. No one puts Kobe ahead of Shaq on the all time list, except fan boys. Kobe was great, Shaq was better.
Also, this idea that somebody had help and that’s why they were great is dumb. Every great player who had multiple championships had a lot of help. MJ had Pippen, Rodman, Horace Grant. Kobe had Shaq, Pau, and great role players. Curry had KD, Klay, and Draymond. You can’t find a single all time great with multiple championships that didn’t have a lot of help
Exactly. Lebron carried his Cavs to the Finals with no talent only to get bludgeoned by the Spurs who were a far better team. You can't win without a good to great supporting cast.
duncan didnt have to be great offensively he had the luxury of relaxing at times while tony could take over or manu hits a big shot horry stephen jackson steve kerr you name it he had it . he didn't average 30pppg not once in his career he can't be the goat . he's not Leebron Kobe or Jordan and shouldn't be in those discussion
@@coreyshafarman8918 So do you think lebron should be in the conversation of Goat 🐐,when Timmy beat him 2x to his 1, and Blame that lost on Pop for taking Tim out of the game.?
The biggest point you didn't mention is Popavich's record without Tim Duncan now is under 500. A 2023 tweet broke it down well 8 seasons 5 losing seasons 2 1st round exits 294-323 record (.476) 12-16 playoffs So not only was Greg a rookie coach, but also a washed coach right after. That's the greatest sign that Tim is the common factor.
I don't think JxH personally did any slander. He said he's top 6/7 all time and not 3rd best, that's it, don't see a problem with that. But people hear overrated and think it means shit.
The people who say “tim had so much help” are the same people that think manu and tony were established nba players for their first chip and not a rookie and sophomore… Edit:Just got to the bit where Low is going off about this exact thing 🤣
Woah it took mj 6 years too have Scottie as a teammate and then like another 4 years for Dennis Rodman. Duncan for sure has had more complete teams and greater teams for longer and it make sense if you made that argument with lebron not MJ. Because playing with d wade, Chris Bosh, kyrie Irving, Anthony Davis, Kevin love, is what people think Duncan had.
@@Hurmspeedy MJ had Pippen, Oakley, Paxson, Armstrong, Grant then Rodman, Kukoc and Harper that's not a bad cast at all most of them were all star star, and a some became HOFers
I agree with LOW. I think Tim deserves to be in the goat conversation. I dont think he is the goat but i think he should be mentioned. Him being top 5-7 (i have him at 6) is reasonable
I feel the point is how long Duncan had a great situation to keep being relevant. Imagine Jordan as a rookie getting to a team with Dr J still with 4 good years in him. Then as Dr J gets older Jordan gets Pippen, Phill Jackson and 2 other solid role players with potential to be Finals MVP. Also they dont break up in 98 when Jordan is 34, but actually keep going with all of them in their primes until Jordan is 39. Plus Kobe Bryant added to the team instead of Kawhi. See how its actually kinda crazy how good the entire spurs were even without talking about Duncan? Low is just not being honest. Sure all greats had help, but not 16 years of really good help. Having him from 5 to 10 is normal, but his point is for people having him in the top 5. Which is kinda a reach.
@@sebastiansanchez375 say what you will but Kawhi won a Finals MVP for Duncan and that Spurs team while being very young in his career. A young Kawhi was a far better defender than a young Kobe that's forsure.
@@Flyhrbetter defender? Sure But the problem with talking about his fmvp when Duncan had a case for both the 07 and 14 fmvp. I'm not arguing he should have won but he was still one of the best players on the team and very impactful on defense.
@@arvidbjoerk5307 Everyone agrees with that, the point is he had a lot of players that made an impact outside of Duncan. In every team if a superstar drops from 26/13/3 to 15/10/3 they probably still are the best player in the team, but the rest of the team is always thrash. In Duncans case they keep getting insane young players with talent enough to be FMVPs, that part is not normal.
Jxmy wasn't even disrespecting Timmy. He was just saying that the mfs who's saying he's the greatest of all time are capping which, as a spurs fan, he's not wrong. He's the greatest pf of all time but not the greatest ever
Jimmys fans in the comments "You're missing his point, did you even listen to the video or are you trying to push propaganda? Nice click bait" Jimmy in the video: "Duncan had ALWAYS been surrounded by a winning culture, he benefited from an established winning system and organization as well as HoFers" LOW: Ginobli and Parker were rookies, Pop was a rookie HC who had inherited a dumpster fire coaching position, and the Spurs were actively tanking prior to getting Duncan, the Spurs winning culture didn't come about until Duncan got there" Jimmy's fans: "ugh, missing Jimmys point"
I could see both arguments tbh but realistically Timmy did start with pop and from there on pop did build the roster and the culture and rookies or not or second year players they still elite Hof.....fact is you did have 6 hall of famers .. Robinson ,parker, manu, timmy and pop nd late Leonard ... No dynasty's with out pop and Timmy doe facts
The Spurs were winning 50+ games every year with David Robinson, they weren’t garbage before Duncan got there. Why do you think this blob didn’t mention the record of the Spurs? Why didn’t you? Oh, that’s right, because it would show that the Spurs were a competent organization that couldn’t win during the Jordan Bulls and Hakeem Rockets years. You are being willfully ignorant and it is not disrespectful to say Duncan is not top-3.
I mean they have a point. LOW didn’t bring up production, he talked about status. Someone can be a rookie and average 20/5/5. Just cause you’re new to the league doesn’t mean you can’t hoop or outplay other superstars especially in a 7 game series. Magic won FMVP in his rookie season…
@@sebastiansanchez375 what are u talking about he is a hall of fame player 😭🤣😂 nd came off the bench but in 4th quarter clutch moments he was on the floor stop it .... He brought the euro step so stop the cap
Just for the casuals, the Spurs were pretty damn good team in the 90s. They wasn’t great but they were good. They were a playoff team every year in the 90s. Their worst year was ‘96 when David Robinson was injured and they tanked, which led to Tim Duncan as the #1 pick in ‘97. So yes they didn’t when a Championship until Duncan came but they were a pretty consistent franchise yrs prior to Duncan arriving.
It’s crazy to hear someone say the Spurs were a bad franchise. When Robinson came that franchise turned around. I’m a 90s kid I don’t need to look up stats to tell me who was good. Spurs was always in the playoffs, because he wasn’t alive or was a baby at the time he’s always making claims 90s teams are horrible. ‘95 Spurs was supposed to be in Finals that year. Robinson was MVP but Hakeem Olajuwon gave him the business in conf finals.
The whole Kawhi arc shows how much the "hyper competent franchise" narrative is bogus ! They had a generational player, capable of shutting down mfing Lebron James, but made a mess with him because he had a bit much more ego than Ducan (and the man seems to have been right about his poor health). The had A LOT of luck and maybe some good scouting talent to get Ducan, Wembanyama, Robinson, and especially Kawhi (nobody predicted him to be this good). They have some skills and competence yes, to devellop these players but they had incredible luck in getting them in the first place, and at the right time too. they had to go and get international players like Parker and Ginobili to make it work, nobody in the league with Ginobili talent at that time could have made sacrifices like him (becoming a 6th man) and, in a way, it's unheard of since (Westbrook was considered washed by many when he made that move and that's the closest, no #2 on a team makes that kind of sacrifice). in 15 years, Tim Duncan had 5 titles in an era he had to face Kobe and Shaq, Lebron with the Heat (Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh), the Bad Boys Pistons, The Durant, Harden, Westbrook Thunder, the Steve Nash Suns, The Kobe and Gasol Lakers. So many great teams it really is incredible that they had so many titles. The only constants are Popovich, an unproven coach and Duncan, the power foward capable of going toe to toe with Shaq. Guess who they think is overrated?
The big issue I had was when he knocked Duncan for having HOF players and coaches. If you look at most of the players considered top 10 players ever, damn near every one of them needed HOF players/coaches to win championships. Jordan won 6 and he had Pippen, Phil Jackson and Rodman (second 3 peat). Kareem won 6 and he had Oscar Robertson and Bob Dandridge (Milwaukee) and Magic, James Worthy, Silk Wilkes, and Pat Riley (Lakers). (Also Bob McAdoo) Magic won 5 and he had Kareem, Worthy, Wilkes and Pat Riley. (Also Bob McAdoo) Larry Bird won 3 and he had Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, and Dennis Johnson. (Also Tiny Archibald and Bill Walton) Shaq won 4 and he had Kobe, Phil Jackson, Wade, and Pat Riley. Kobe won 5 and he had Shaq, Phil, and Pau Gasol. Lebron won 4 and he had/has Wade, Bosh, Erik Spoelstra, Kyrie, and AD. (Also Ray Allen) Steph won 4 and he had/has Klay, Draymond, Steve Kerr, and KD. It doesn't make sense knocking Tim Duncan for winning 5 championships with a HOF coach (Pop) and some HOF teammates (Parker, Ginobili, David Robinson, Kawhi) if you're not going to do the same to the others.
Lebrons is disingenuous. What was Bosh, Kyrie or Love doing before pairing with Lebron. What have they done since? The only proven star was Wade and he was 2-3 years away from his knees giving out.
@@panashe5268 This wasn't about them. They were stars on bad/mediocre teams who won when they got to play next to an all time great. My point was that most top 10 players win championships with great players and coaches and that shouldn't be used to discredit them.
@@panashe5268 well then Lebron fans are just the best at being victims lol. Every time dude lost and you all acted as if he had YMCA rosters, lol. No wonder stars do not want to join him, because once dude hog the ball, and the team lose, its everyone's fault but Lebron. "But but Lebron averaged... and his team only averaged..." What law says all stats are equal, especially postseason stats ? Julian Edelman has postseason stats comparable of Jerry Rice, has 3 rings like Rice, 1 SB MVP like Rice. So... Edelman = top 5 wide receiver all time ? Also, Lebron is the king of cap and y'all look at the world under the same lense as him, acting as if he was relatable. Good lord, niggas, please.
Just to note since for whatever reason most people don't know this when they're overrating Bill Russells 11 NBA championship rings In Russels rookie season 1956-57 - there were only 8 total teams in the NBA. Then in 1961-62 they added a new team - 9 teams. 1966-67 -10 teams. In 1967-68 - 12 teams. In 1968-69 Russels last season 14 teams. And besides the ridiculously limited teams, the NBA was a mess. There weren't team salary caps. I don't even think there were salary minimums. The Celtics had a relatively stacked team and half the teams were new franchises trying to get off the ground. The competition was astronomically less compared to now. For me at least it's extremely difficult to rank players pre 1970 and even pre 1980 to a lessor degree. There were even at the very least a decent percentage of pro calibar players not playing pro basketball during Russels timeline for a wide array of reasons. Compared to today when there's a global network feeding guys into the NBA system. And so much about the game has changed... it's comparing apples to oranges. When looking at most top 50 or top 100 players list it's amazing how overrated the old school players are, pre 1970. They end up comprising over 35% on the average best players list. To put it in perspective the total number of players in the NBA on a yearly basis added up from 1950-1970 (they had smaller team rosters as well) is equivalent to the combined players for 3 years any time during the last 30 years. Even if you create a fantasy land where you don't penalize old school players for their limited competition and skill levels, they should only comprise 15% if one was to consider total player volume, not that one necessarily should, but smaller/limited competition should certainly be taken into account.
I don't completely disagree with a lot of what LOW said but you also made some really disingenuous points. Sure the Spurs fired multiple head coaches before Duncan but they also won an average of 58 games in the 3 seasons prior... FIFTY EIGHT. You then mentioned how they haven't been great since Duncan left even though they won 67 and 61 games in back to seasons, a FRANCHISE RECORD with him practically retired. Even after Kawhi left they were a 50 win team before completely rebuilding which most teams eventually do. It just feels like some of the arguments were in bad faith is all.
@@sebastiansanchez375 You're right he did my bad but he was hardly a star at that point. Again I think he's one of the greats, I just think we dont need to pretend the Spurs haven't been successful without him. We can just appreciate his greatness without creating narratives
LOW didn’t bring up production either, he talked about status. Someone can be a rookie and average 20/5/5. Just cause you’re new to the league doesn’t mean you can’t hoop or outplay other superstars especially in a 7 game series. Magic won FMVP in his rookie season…
Players are not the system. Pop, RC and Duncan built the system. Robinson built the character of the franchise. Saying that the players changed actually supports the system argument, but you don't seem to realize it
6:07 Look at those records tho. The team was almost in the playoffs every year and pretty decent at that. Robinson was also hurt the year before Tim came in.
Jxmmy only tried to say that he thinks that Duncan isn't top 5 and is more around nr 7 or so and while I personally think that's still incorrect as Tim is around No4 on the list. It isn't that wild of a take. He's only claiming that Duncan used to be underrated not being in the top 10 by the general public but is now being overrated by being counted as top 3/top5.
Tim was always put into he too 5 tho. It was never a time where he wasn’t too 5. The only people who didn’t have him top 5 was casuals. I think Jxmmy starting to lose it his last couple of takes have been crazy.
People keep saying KG could've replaced Duncan. No, he couldn't. Pop became a no nonsense, in your face, "imma get you out of the game for that bs" type of coach because Timmy, as great as he was, allowed Pop to coach him. Timmy was a unique superstar. His ego wasn't hurt for being berrated, singled out or yelled at; it only hurt when he felt responsible for losing. Later on he even took less money so his teammates could be payed more, and relegated his own role and numbers with the advent of the perimeterer centered offenses. If Timmy made those sacrifices, how could Manu not play off the bench? How could Parker not work his butt off to change Spurs' style when the league became more guard oriented? How could anyone else not sacrifice for the team, when their foundational player is the one sacrificing the most? That's Bill Russell type leadership. KG had a different character (not better, not worse, just different). I don't think Pop would've grown as a coach, nor KG as player if both had to put up with one another. Ergo: the Spurs wouldn't have become a dinasty.
They were actively making the playoffs every year with DR then tanked effectively to get tim, then won the finals the next season. THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN BY ACCIDENT. put some respect on the spurs
Did you not hear about the amount of coaches they had in a ten year span? Also does that mean the nuggets were very competent when they had Melo because they made the playoffs almost every year and had the same number of conference finals appearances?
even with the changing of coaches they were consistently making deepish playoff runs multiple times. And no the nuggets were not competent with melo because they got bounced out the playoffs every year in the first round. it takes a competent organization to make good changes when you see your team not reach their peak.@@sebastiansanchez375
@@sebastiansanchez375You don’t win 50+ games for nearly a decade straight without being a competent franchise. Who cares if the coaches change if their record is great?
It cracks me up every time low starts to pop off. You would think he hates doing this but ik he loves it. He be so annoyed, pissed, and talking crazy EVERY VIDEO then he ends the video so chill it’s always a fun watch😂
Tim Duncan is a top 10 player of all time. We're talking about a man that beat Shaq and Kobe in the playoffs. And honestly, 4-10 all time are a complete toss up. If you put Timmy 4th or 5th after MJ, LeBron, and Kareem, I feel like that just means you value defense and consistency, cause he's definitely the best defender amongst the remaining people in the top 10 people and it's not really close. But it's still perfectly valid pick to put him in your top 5. I don't order anybody past 4 anyway, they just exist in that range.
@@coloneldusty447613.3 ppg with 6.5 rbs and 1.8 asts on 28 mpg is top ten all time play? Crazy standards. That was Robinson’s stats vs Kobe and Shaq when he won in 99.
@@sebastiansanchez375 Robinson was another big that the lakers had to account for besides Duncan he might not have been in his prime but was still crucial in that title . that was Robinsons team and he made the spurs into contenders not duncan who walked into what was already established
@@sebastiansanchez375 Robinson was the defensive anchor on the team. Not Tim. Who do you think was dealing with world breaker Shaq? Definitely not Duncan.
Bro, Tim Duncan is in my top5. He was my top4 but with Lebrons record breaking of points, he went to 5th and Lebron os #4 now. I think he's competing with Magic for the 5th all time.
Super simplified version, Tim Duncan elevated the perception of the Spurs organization and their coaching like Brady did for the Patriots. Looked trash before they were there, went into absolute dynasty mode while they were there, and right back to competing for bottom 5 in the league once they left.
Ion like how low just put ty lue in the same convo as pop riles and phil like cmon bruh. Yk lebron hasnt had nearly the front office’s these other dudes had. You coulda left bron alone
The Spurs were always consistent. Not always the same players but ALWAYS a good team. And how many players... only all time greats who had great teammates like Tim had LoL. Jimmy said nothing wrong in his video.
Prior to TD... how many times did they even sniff the finals? Maybe once... they lost in the wcf... consistent, but never as consistent as they were when td arrived.
Low is laughably incorrect about the Sputs b4 Tim Duncan. They were in the playoffs every year after drafting Robinson and even when they lost in the playoffs, it was to either the WCF champs or the NBA Finals champ. They were a 55+ win team from 88-89 to 95-96, 5 out of 7 years during that span.
I mean what so you think of the mid 2000’s to 2011 nuggets who had melo? They had 4 50+ win seasons and a 49 win season between 2004/05 - 2010/11 and had the same number of WCF appearances as Robinson had prior to Duncan getting drafted? And made the playoff every year of his career?
@@ed4l63 that means they literally added tim duncan to a 55+ win team with an mvp hof player lol no other top 10 player ever joined a team that successful
i think Duncan is clearly behind jordan, lebron, shaq, and kareem, but after that, i could see him being as high as 5, and he's certainly top 10. the man just got it done year in and year out and was just good at literally everything. also the spurs would have won 0 rings without Duncan. they had minimal success before him and minimal success after him. only other point i can make is that you are incorrect about Kareem not sniffing a championship for a decade, he literally won in his second season with his best supporting player being a declining Oscar Robertson. and he won MVP that year.
So you really gone ignore the fact that they had 7 winning seasons and 50 plus wins 6 of the seasons b4 Tim got there… yea they had a lot of coaches because they underachieved.. the teams was good David got hurt season before Tim got there that why record was bad
They achieved nothing. Regular season wins totals with playoff failures isn’t success. Someone like Kobe however was drafted to a team that won 12 without him and another 4 years after. Played for a coach who has 6 without him. What has SA or Pop done without Duncan?
I’m a Spurs fan and the the Spurs org/Pop argument is kinda silly. Jordan, Kobe, and Shaq all had Phil Jackson. The Lakers are a powerful organization that are able to sign essentially any player they want. But this argument is held only to Duncan.
Tim Duncan is a top 5/6 player of all time and that's irrefutable especially because he's viewed as the best ever in one position. Every other person that's seen as the best in a position is also viewed as top 5....PG - Magic, SG - MJ, SF - Bron, C - Kareem. Even if we are gonna put Bill Russell as 5th for good measure, then Tim Duncan has to come in next before anyone else.
Literally no one called tim duncan a role player here this video lmao😂😂😂 low trying to be a sleek ...stop this bs man someone making a take that tim duncan is not a top 5 player of all time is not that big of a deal ...just stop this
I'm a big Jimmy fan but he deserves LOW clapping him hard here lol. Timmy D IS the foundation of the whole Spurs dominant era. Could well be a Chicago like wait till they on top again and who knows when they will be back in the finals. Jimmy tried to act like he wasn't disrespecting him then ended up disrespectful lol.
Tim Duncan literally made the spurs the historic franchise they are today. He's like Tom Brady to the partriots. He's establish that culture and reverence they just done a good job keeping it (not thr winning) since he retired
Idk bout that one chief pop orcastrated the dynasty literally built starting with Timmy and building the culture and let manu do manu shyt when at the time was unheard of ...euro ball into modern basketball...
wouldn’t say tim duncan is overrated. tim is exactly who he is and was. Is he the greatest power forward ever…NO, ESPN has helped push that narrative. How when he played most of his career as a center. Is he a top 5 player ever…NO. How when you have the KB24’s,The Birds,The Magic Johnsons,The LBJ’s, The Kareem and Jordans. Is he a top 5 PF…Yes? In our opinion the greatest pf of all time debate should rightfully go to the always underrated Karl Malone. People forget that TD came in the league at the right time and dominated a league that became guard orriented . But let’s not forget when he entered the league the eldestatemen of the PF position was Malone who was STILL dominating the league and the position for 6-8 yrs afterwards. People ALWAYS FORGET smh
Duncan is #5 or 6 on my list only players that are better is LeBron, Jordan, Kareem, Wilt & possibly Magic… that’s literally it. If Duncan was “flashy” people would literally call him the goat.
And only 1 conference finals appearance to show for it in like 7 years. All the rest are 1st or second round exits not to mention after he came back from that injury he was not close to the same guy he was prior to it which is why mentioning that is important.
@@sebastiansanchez375 So because Kobe wasn’t winning after Shaq that means that means he wasn’t good with Gasol? Kobe was trash because he wasn’t winning rings, got it.
If you're gonna put Kobe in the GOAT debate based on accolades, stats and overall impact on the game, then just by merit of those virtues alone then Tim Duncan belongs in that debate also.
Saying the Spurs weren't competent before Duncan arrived doesn't mean they were so when he was there lol, Jimmy was right. They made consistently great moves and freshened up their roster for over 17 years.
Bruh putting all this emotion into this when he said TD is SLIGHTLY overrated. At the beginning of the video he says Tim is the 5-10 spot and is the best PF of all time. And you ain’t even show the whole vid come on low I fwu but this not it
@@judahmourneth3211 what’s LeBron‘s record against Kobe in the playoffs?? oh I forgot they never met. When the Cavs were winning 60 games a year someway somehow they couldn’t get to the Finals inals while the Lakers were going there three years in a row
The Tim Duncan disrespect is definitely crazy. Duncan faced the Shaq/Kobe Lakers 4 times in the playoffs and went 2-3. '98-'99 - Spurs won 4-0. Phil Jackson wasn't coach for the Lakers yet. '00-'01 - Lakers won 4-0. '01-'02 - Lakers won 4-1. However, Duncan was clearly the best player on the court. He led both teams in scoring, rebounding, and blocks, and tied for the second most steals. '02-'03 - Spurs won 4-2. '03-'04 - Lakers won 4-2. Spurs lost Robinson and Lakers added Malone and Payton. Duncan definitely held his own against one of the greatest teams ever that had two top 10 (or top 15 at worst) players off all-time. But Duncan gets diminished for having Pop, who ended up being one of the greatest coaches ever, but Shaq and Kobe don't get diminished for having Jackson who was arguably THE greatest coach ever even before he joined the Lakers? Get that crap out of here.
Crazy the amount of comments hating on this take when it’s not even that crazy. Dude literally said he was 7th best ALL TIME, and we r acting like jimmy said he was a role player. I feel like putting mj, bron, magic, and kareem at least above Duncan makes sense for most fans. It’s also an opinion, like tf
You clearly didn't watch the Jimmy video bc he slanders LeBron. Secondly, downplaying Duncan would be downplaying Bron's competition, so it only helps LeBron for Duncan to be uplifted instead of slandered. You gotta think before you speak, or ur gonna just look like a hater.
Low yelling about the Spurs not being "consistent" but Jimmy specifically said the organization surrounded Tim with good talent. Low don't realize that by bringing up how much player movement the Spurs had proves Jimmy's point that they made it a priority to put good competent players around Tim Duncan
You can't compare the Spurs before Pop ran the show as GM and coach, with afterwards. It became vastly different. The Spurs after that point are the model that every small market team tries to follow. They made the playoffs 20 years in a row, and won a title after Timmy's decline. Why are you trying to say the Spurs weren't a premier organization during Ducan's career? Pop is venerated as one of the greatest coach's ever. Are you denying that cuz that was part of the point Higholler was making. Also, when has an NBA org gotten more buy in by their 3 best players? Duncan, Parker and Ginobli are still pretty much on the team.
He is overrated, not a role player obviously but he’s the only one in the top 10 convo who gets none of the same pushback the rest get. If anybody you want to compare him with had two stars in Ginobli/TP the whole time they would have repeated, not losing to 8 seeds and losing in the Olympics. You don’t hear anybody talk about any of his failures (because they didn’t watch and get their opinions from revisionists)
I mean everybody has those same failures, wether it’s wilt literally being able to barley win a chip, Bill playing against ppl who still had day jobs, LeBron in ‘11, MJ getting dog walked by the pistons and essentially dodging Hakeem. Also like showed in the video, these players essentially grew together, manu rookie and TP 2nd year. There is no way to know how good those two become with anyone not named Tim Duncan and I have no reason to assume it would’ve worked bc you have situations like Vince n Tracy etc.
@@calebstevens9446 Except everyone else gets knocked for it and nobody says anything about Duncan because they didn’t watch basketball till 2015. Losing in the Olympics & losing to an 8 seed is generational losing that nobody else would get away with. Tony & Manu were 25ppg caliber guys who sacrificed immensely to be Spurs and now a bunch of teens act like Duncan played with role players
@@businessk3014that’s just not true. The main discredit I see for Duncan is that he’s never been able to defend his championship with ample opportunity. Which is a completely fair criticism, but the only time you need to pull out that stain is if you’re speaking to some1 who has Duncan much higher than he’s supposed to be, anytime any1 has him 5-8, everybody just goes “huh yeah” and moves on. There’s nothing to say, as long as they stay consistent in THEIR list and what they value.
@@calebstevens9446 everything I said was a fact. You being super sensitive to anything negative about Duncan doesn’t negate it. You lost a bunch of criticism about actual top 10 guys and everyone has heard it a million times, I say Duncan lost to an 8 seed and people don’t even know what I’m talking about. Hes not held to a fraction of the standard the rest are
@@businessk3014 idek what you’re saying anymore I’m a clippers fan with no loyalty to Duncan. This is y I can’t have conversations with niggas anymore. “Sensitive to criticism”? Huh?????????????? I think we’re done speaking.
Is it also an "opinion" to just provide factually false information? Cause that's what Jimmy did. Look man, I love Jimmy, easily my favorite basketball YTer and it's not even close but dick riding is just terrible. If someone makes a mistake, you call them out on it no matter who it is or how much you like them.
I was waiting for this because Jxmmy was outta pocket for that I’m a diehard lifelong San Antonio Spurs fan pre David Robinson so I’ve been here throughout it all, to say Timmy is overrated is like spitting in that man’s face. I’m still baffled at how he didn’t win 1 DPOY, but has been talked about as arguably the greatest defender of all time just because you don’t like consistency and someone who isn’t flashy doesn’t mean they don’t warrant the spot in historically top 5 or otherwise.
No player in NBA history has won more than 1 title without a current All-NBA teammate. Apart from Duncan, who did it 4 times. Top 5 all time without question.
@@theincandescent130+ years in the NBA and the team haven’t even made a finals without him. Being a a good regular season team isn’t success, is it? HOF is such a weak argument, and one lead by people who can’t comprehend that players don’t play the same every season, do they?
What people mean about consistency they mean about spurs front office making great decisions throughout duncan’s career and barely wasting his career like the lakers did with kobe (in his prime) for example, also gregg popovich wasn’t a rookie coach his whole career bruh, he literally became a top 3 coach ever if not 1. I got Duncan top 4 all time tho, he’s done a lot with no much help compared to other greats.
What has he done after ? Look at spurs now they got a generational talent are they good ? Yes the game have change but still pops can’t make miracles happen the players can .
@@holypopy wemby is in his rookie season bruh you can’t expect them being a playoff team just because he got there and after duncan spurs were actually a great team until kawhi left and then after 2019 they were on rebuild and now they got wemby, coaches are a big part of a team success and if you don’t realize that go watch more ball
@@jwc7215 phil jackson had mj, pippen, shaq and kobe, spo had d wade, lebron, bosh, jimmy, kerr had kd, steph, curry, klay, out of all those coaches pop had the less talent and still got more chips than all of them but phil, after duncan spurs actually got very good seasons until kawhi left and made the playoffs until 2019, they had one of the worst teams until now. Duncan didn’t make him a top 3 coach, pop made himself a top 3 coach ever. Without pop duncan doesn’t have at much success and without duncan pop neither.
![ละลาย (LALALYE) - DAOU PITTAYA ต้าห์อู๋ พิทยา [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wo6r9TgausI/mqdefault.jpg)
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW GOOD TIM DUNCAN WAS OMG YOU HAVE NO IDEA GOW GOOD TIM DUNCAN WAS
W unc
Yes we do 😂 his career ended a decade ago not 30 years, we watched him
Blud was genuinely tweaking
Spent half of career below 50% as a big.
@@FlexSZN23at least he’s not a dead rapist
People be saying anything nowadays 😭
Tim Duncan was great and very fundamental
Jimmy is a blazers fan
@@brziperiodya man for real.
Including this dude hating on Sean Elliot like he does in this video. Okay boomer casual.
Jimmy knows what will get clicks. He knows Timmy had become arguably the most respected player ever and knows that hating will get the clicks. I see what you doing Jimmy
@@brziperiodso he clearly knows what a good team is😂😂😂
This is so random. Tim Duncan slander just came outta nowhere
cause of jimmy
@@missioofn8321nah. it’s been happening like weeks before the video. I’ve been seeing it all over tiktok before the vid.
none of it was really slander
Bc people keep putting him in top 3 convos which is crazy
Duncan gets praised more now than he did when he played.
"Get coached by Ty Lue" is the biggest compliment I've ever seen someone give to Ty Lue 😂
Foreaalll😂
comparing ty lue and gregg popovich 🤦♂️
theres a bigger difference than apples and oranges. . . at least they both fruit 😂
I don't understand what makes ty lue a tire above a frank Vogel or Mike Budenholzer
You can say Mike Brown if you want.
😂😂😂
Thank you LOW. People act like the Spurs were this ultra prestigious franchise before Duncan got there. That’s reverse engineering and revisionist history at its finest.
Only a TRUE dysfunctional organization builds a perfect team around their star player. Actually, the CAVS are a GREAT organization cuz they gave Lebron bums to carry for years
They won 60 games on average for 3 years prior to him being drafted lol before DRob got injured
@@johnfinance8053and what did those seasons lead to? And how was D Rob affected by that injury? The point is people talk about the spurs like they were this dynasty driven franchise when Duncan got there, putting em on the same level as a Boston or LA which is stupid.
The only reason they were able to get Tim Duncan thru the draft was because the 1995 NBA MVP was injured.
@@jayvoorYes but my point is people arguing like the Spurs were some subpar franchise before Duncan got there is just as disingenuous. Lets just be real, they werent a dynasty before he got there but they were still a consistently elite team with the infrastructure to be great. I think Low is combatting a bad point with another bad point
If Tim Duncan was a “flashy “ player he would be in the Goat convo. Resume speaks for itself .
No he wouldn't, he won 5 titles, but only 3 finals MVPs, he never averaged 30, he never won back to back, let alone a 3peat, and he didn't win a bunch of regular season MVPs. He is a great player but this is wild to claim he wasn't flashy enough, Kareem wasn't flashy, Bill wasn't flashy, hell I don't think wilt would be considered flashy, but all are considered some of the best to ever do it, and 2 of them come up in GOAT conversations all the time.
Not saying 30 is the only stat that matters, but compared to guys like Kareem and wilt who averaged 30 as defensive monsters, it's hard to put Tim over those guys. Hell I'd say If tim didn't get number 5 he would be sitting next to or even behind Hakeem at this point.
Stop this flashy excuse
@@IsaacMSingleton1this is a very stupid take.No way you’re argument is that he didn’t average 30 and then to say he ONLY won 3 fmvp out of his 5 chips like that’s bad.Kareem won 6 rings and only has 2 fmvp.Mvp has became a media driven award for the longest we don’t even really know who deserved it.
@@von1626 yes and Kareem won 2, but Kareem won 1 on 2 separate teams, and was the first player to ever do that, so he has an argument when it comes to finals MVPs, he also was a better scorer than Duncan, arguably a better rebounder, just as good of a defender, also a great leader. I'm just saying I don't think Duncan is the best big man ever, let alone best player ever, and being flashy has 0 to do with it. It's the fact he never was better than Kareem that holds him back from the GOAT conversation. When comparing Tim and Kareem, you see Kareem averaged 34 on 57 percent, Tim averaged 25 on 50, then they are at least comparable everywhere else on the court, I just don't buy that Duncan is held back due to flash.
I am afraid that in the next 10-15 years when Jokic retires that we will have some people that legitimately watched him throughout his prime and disrespect his legacy just like Jimmy with Timmy
Yeah, when Luka retires people will say "oh that fat slow kid". Unfortunately, this is how it is.
probbly not jokic is much better than Duncan as a player offensively when you factor in playmaking and scoring . Duncan wasnt that great offensively and always had stacked talent. don't compare Duncan to a guy that cant you triple doubles in his sleep. jokic does more for his team
Hey idiot, jokic isnt close to what duncan was defensively. Also it is much easier for jokic to put up stats now compared to duncan in the 2000s.
No, people will look at his shiny numbers and say, wow he was so great, imagine if he didn't play with scrubs. Timmy is easier to disrespect because he was in a slow era with deflated stats, and his best attributes were defense and leadership, which don't show up in the stat sheet.
Yea jokic and doncic are heading down that path coz they are white
Tim Duncan was the reason why the Spurs were always a contender.....
Take David Robinson, Sean Elliott, Tony Parker, Manu, Stephen Jackson, away and give him nesterovic, sczerbiak, oluwakandi, Anthony peeler...,..I guarantee things look different and they don't win a title
@@colereviewsytask gregg popovic, he said it countless times that duncan was the reason not the other way around. and the irony is: guess who was the spurs starting center between 2003 and 2006? rasho nesterovic
@@colereviewsytyou can say that to practically every superstar that won it all. No matter how great a player is, a great team is needed to win championships.
@@colereviewsyt You can say this about literally any superstar.
@@colereviewsytdamn so take the whole team wtf this take so trash😂😂
I was a huge Lakers fan in the early 2000’s. I know for a fact how dominant Tim Duncan was
for real. kobe said it himself in an interview, they were always watching out for the spurs; thats how much of a rivalry they had. im sure the spurs say the same thing about the lakers. duncan is one of the greatest to ever play the game and he deserves all the respect and more
Never forget that the Spurs stopped the Lakers from having a 4-peat. I think Duncan damn near has a quadruple double in the elimination game.
I see Kobe in GOAT debates all the time but all of a sudden I’m supposed to believe that just putting Tim Duncan in the top 5 is nasty lol
One was debated with Jordan during his prime. One was never in the top 10 convo till years after he retired.
Context for the teenagers
@@businessk3014that is true lmaoo ngl Duncan was definitely in the top 10 convos though
After 2007 when he had 2 MVPs and 4 chips he was definitely in top 10 conversations in my circles lmao
I mean tim Duncan was and is the reason Kobe and Lebron don’t have as much titles as they could of had. All while not having another hall of famer in his run. Had elite role players but not HOF. Can’t say the same about Kobe or Lebron.
@@businessk3014 man stop if you didn’t have Duncan in the top 10 in 2016 when he retired you were tripping.
Don't forget that Tony was benched in that 2003 playoff run. Manu was showing flashes but wasn't the guy yet. Robinson was barely holding on as an old man role player who was just a body to put on Shaq. Duncan carried that team and had what should have been credited a quad double in the championship game. They just miscounted the blocks.
35mpg is a lot for a benched player. manu was 26 years old as well... faced no dirk mavs, foot issues shaq, kidd nets... lol he had the better team every series
@@bboywolfthe mavs won just as many game with Dirk as they did without him in that series? Also foot issues Shaq when he played 38 minutes per game?
@@sebastiansanchez375 are you slow? if they won 1 game without him the chances are they win the series lol it was 2-1 game 4 in dallas.
yes shaq foot issues, he played 38 mpg and was dealing with a sore foot and knee all year...100 articles on it, google it lol
@@bboywolf Yeah and? Tony went from the starting pg to the backup pg during the playoff run because he wasn't performing. Manu was still a rookie that wasn't used to the NBA yet. Go watch the finals. The second best player on that team was Stephen Jackson.
@@bboywolf bro Tony Parker was in his second year in the league, nowhere near the all star he would eventually become, and Manu was a ROOKIE. David Robinson was wayyyy past his prime. The Spurs do not win that championship without Tim Duncan.
More Finals mvps and regular mvps than Kobe yet you guys say he's overrated 🤣🤣🤣
Before I watch the video, imagine doing exactly what it takes to win 5/6 rings and being called overrated because you didn't play for stats and less to no rings.
Welcome to being an NBA player pre LeBron era 😂
I feel the point is how long Duncan had a great situation to keep being relevant.
Imagine Jordan as a rookie getting to a team with Dr J still with 4 good years in him.
Then as Dr J gets older Jordan gets Pippen, Phill Jackson and 2 other solid role players with potential to be Finals MVP.
Also they dont break up in 98 when Jordan is 34, but actually keep going with all of them in their primes until Jordan is 39.
Plus Kobe Bryant added to the team instead of Kawhi.
See how its actually kinda crazy how good the entire spurs were even without talking about Duncan? Low is just not being honest.
Sure all greats had help, but not 16 years of really good help.
All the other all time greats achieved close to the same winning than Duncan, but also did it in almost half the window of time Duncan had.
@sergeistalin7916 Tim duncan defined the spurs with his leadership something everyone who played with him says. All greats had alot of help and to be dismissive of his achievements because he was so good for so long is exactly why this video was made. Maybe if Jordan didn't leave his team twice he'd have a similar long career but we're not allowed to diss the golden goat 🤔
@@sergeistalin7916So that's means any player could win 5 rings with that spurs team correct according to you
he's overrated exactly for that reason people meat ride him because he's different
Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying TD is Jordan but the Spurs owes their success to Duncan as much as the Bulls owe theirs to MJ
People don’t watch basketball.. saying Tim Duncan is a ROLE PLAYER is WILDDD! 🥴
Yeah, anyone saying that is not even a casual.
Except no one said that in this video ...low just put up a straight lie for a title ...
Timmy is one of few NBA players who have been legit from college until end of his NBA career. I hated Timmy as a UNC fan. But that boy was him.
Nobody said that. The title is some bs clickbait
Exactly. They only know basketball from highlights and youtube commentary
Tim Duncan disrespect is just nasty.
Jordan is the goat.
Guarantee most of the guys disrespecting Duncan didn’t watch him play his career. Just like young guys who disrespect MJ didn’t watch him play, just some high lights. And they just want to elevate modern guys like LeBron and Steph, that’s all it is.
@@timmyg831you’re just completely wrong. 1 you guys bitch about Lebron all the time “wahh wahh 6 losses” why would Lebron fans downplay someone who beat him?. It’s mainly Jordan and Kobe fans who downplay Timmy. Kobe fans don’t want to admit Kobe wasn’t the best in the 2000s and Jordan fans don’t want to admit the bulls weren’t the greatest. People “disrespect” Jordan because old heads do the same to every modern player.
@@deadlylightningspirit4295 …BS that push that narrative, it’s boring talking about LeBron, you guys and media love talking about him a lot. 🥱 His time has past, there are other players now more exciting to watch.
He said it was a hot take so I think he did what he had to do lol
Despite the coaching situation, the Spurs were primed to get to the NBA finals. Just had to outlast Jordan and Hakeem. Duncan was a mega boost to get them over the top - plus MJ retired lol.
Before Robinson got there and plays his rookie season in 1990, the Spurs were 21-61. By the time Duncan got there, David Robinson had already won: ROY, DPOY, MVP, ALL NBA 7x, NBA ALL DEFENSE 7x, 1x scoring champ ... he was a monster. The Spurs record with David Robinson before Timmy got there:
1989 - (21 - 61)
1990 - (56-26) - David Robinson's 1st season.
1991 - (55-27)
1992 - (47-35)
1993 - (49-33)
1994 - (55-27)
1995 - (62-20)
1996 - (59-23)
1997 - (20-62) - David Robinson gets hurt and only plays 6 games
1998 - (56-26) - Duncan's rookie season.
1999 - (37-13) - Shortened (*) season. Won chip. Duncan's 2nd season. Duncan wins finals MVP - Final's averages: 27.4 / 14r / 2.4a / 2.2 blk / 1 stl - Timmy was really that guy.
IMO, before the injury David Robinson was on track to being a top 10-15 player all time. Tim took the baton and RAN with it.
A mega boost? The guy was arguably one of the best players in the league by year 2. He’s the greatest power forward ever and arguably the best 2 way player ever. He was highly competitive, smart on and off the court, and a great leader. You young guys are dumb. Period.
@@Vjl5280 Duncan is not a power forward. Biggest lie in the NBA. 9-years at PF and 10 at Center in the NBA. Add his 4 years at Wake Forest. That’s 14 at Center plus his international games at Center.
Played in college as a center. Only played PF when David Robinson was on the team out of necessity. Ran the high low like GTown when Alonzo and Dikembe both started.
Y’all just tell stories and never watched it live.
@@dmv_p he’s a power forward.
@@Vjl5280 smh lost
Robinson did all of that, yet he still couldn't win a thing until Duncan came along. Its impossible to say he was on track to being a top 10-15 player with absolutely no playoff success on his resume.
It's crazy how people have re-written history to make the Spurs and Bulls into "all-time great" organizations and front offices to downplay Duncan's and Jordan's greatness. When they have literally done *NOTHING* before or after them.
Gotta spin a narrative to push your favorite player(s), I guess.
Organizations can be run great for a while then be terrible. Krause was objectively great at his job. For a modern example, look at the Warriors
@@ajlundy7550and most would argue alot of that success still hinges on curry, even at bare minimum it’s 50/50 damn near.
@@ajlundy7550yea because those organizations your talking about all had an ALL TIME GREAT PLAYER TO BUILD AROUND 💯
95-96 season: 2nd in conference - Conference Semi-finals
94-95 season: 1st in conference - Conference Finals
93-94 season: 4th in conference - 1st round
92-93 season: 5th in conference - Semifinals
91-92 season: 5th in conference - 1st round
90-91 season: 2nd in conference - 1st round
89-90 season; 2nd in conference - Semifinals
They weren't exactly *terrible* before Duncan. Robinson's age and injuries are part of why they tanked 96-97
@@Dekartz 👏🏽NOW SHOW WHAT SUCESS THEY HAD IN THE PLAYOFFS SINCE DAVID ROBINSON WAS THERE 1 CONF FINALS CORRECT 👏🏽 what an great organization and drafted Sean Elliot over Glen rice what a very smart organization that TIM DUNCAN IS THE REASON WE KNOW THE SPURS FOR WHAT THEY ARE HE MADE THEM WHAT THEY ARE 💯
2003 is still the greatest carry job of a superstar en route to a chip in NBA history
2011 dirk
@@big_thund3rJJ Barea
2011 Mavs say hello
It's up there, but surely its Hakeem.
@@jwc7215The first one in particular because Drexler wasn’t there.
He put Timmy in tier 3 of all time players that’s when I knew he was hating
That depends on who was in tier 1 and tier 2.
Putting Kobe ahead of Shaq given the fact Shaq 3peated as Finals MVP.
@@DonaldMcLemore-n6d don't be disingenuous. you know damn well shaq wouldn't 3peat without Kobe. Not to mention Kobe had much more impressive finals runs later on in his career without a superstar by his side like shaq had.
@@ballerboi4980 Jordan without Pippen, etc. There's a reason Shaq won all three Finals MVPs. No one puts Kobe ahead of Shaq on the all time list, except fan boys. Kobe was great, Shaq was better.
@@ballerboi4980 Kobe was voted number 12 all time. Shaq was voted number 9. No serious pundit puts Kobe ahead of Shaq on that Lakers dynasty.
Also, this idea that somebody had help and that’s why they were great is dumb. Every great player who had multiple championships had a lot of help. MJ had Pippen, Rodman, Horace Grant. Kobe had Shaq, Pau, and great role players. Curry had KD, Klay, and Draymond. You can’t find a single all time great with multiple championships that didn’t have a lot of help
Exactly. Lebron carried his Cavs to the Finals with no talent only to get bludgeoned by the Spurs who were a far better team. You can't win without a good to great supporting cast.
duncan didnt have to be great offensively he had the luxury of relaxing at times while tony could take over or manu hits a big shot horry stephen jackson steve kerr you name it he had it . he didn't average 30pppg not once in his career he can't be the goat . he's not Leebron Kobe or Jordan and shouldn't be in those discussion
@@ryanr20091 I agree, I don’t thinkthe GOAT, or should even be in the convo. But he’s definitely top 10 all time
@@coreyshafarman8918 So do you think lebron should be in the conversation of Goat 🐐,when Timmy beat him 2x to his 1, and Blame that lost on Pop for taking Tim out of the game.?
The biggest point you didn't mention is Popavich's record without Tim Duncan now is under 500.
A 2023 tweet broke it down well
8 seasons
5 losing seasons
2 1st round exits
294-323 record (.476)
12-16 playoffs
So not only was Greg a rookie coach, but also a washed coach right after. That's the greatest sign that Tim is the common factor.
I don't think JxH personally did any slander. He said he's top 6/7 all time and not 3rd best, that's it, don't see a problem with that. But people hear overrated and think it means shit.
The people who say “tim had so much help” are the same people that think manu and tony were established nba players for their first chip and not a rookie and sophomore…
Edit:Just got to the bit where Low is going off about this exact thing 🤣
26 year old manu ginobili isn't established enough for you
@@bboywolfthat 7.6 ppg on 44% shooting is definitely established
@@sebastiansanchez375lol 😂
@@getyaphinsup dgaf, did manu flop? he was playing 30mpg lol
@@sebastiansanchez375 he avg 10 in the playoffs and led the team in steals... 10 4 3 1.7 steals is established role player to me lol
Crazy how he’ll say this about Duncan but will be on his knees for mj as if Jordan didn’t actually have what he thinks Duncan had
Woah it took mj 6 years too have Scottie as a teammate and then like another 4 years for Dennis Rodman. Duncan for sure has had more complete teams and greater teams for longer and it make sense if you made that argument with lebron not MJ. Because playing with d wade, Chris Bosh, kyrie Irving, Anthony Davis, Kevin love, is what people think Duncan had.
@@Hurmspeedybro MJ also had THE greatest coach of all time what are you talking about
@@soodhooku the “greatest coach” phil Jackson? The one who had Jordan, pippin, Rodman, Kobe, Shaq, pau, Dwight, Lamar Odom.
@@soodhookuPhil coached 3 of the top 8 players of all time and 2 of them he had at the same damn time! NO SHIT he was gonna win hella rings.
@@Hurmspeedy MJ had Pippen, Oakley, Paxson, Armstrong, Grant then Rodman, Kukoc and Harper that's not a bad cast at all most of them were all star star, and a some became HOFers
I agree with LOW. I think Tim deserves to be in the goat conversation. I dont think he is the goat but i think he should be mentioned.
Him being top 5-7 (i have him at 6) is reasonable
I feel the point is how long Duncan had a great situation to keep being relevant.
Imagine Jordan as a rookie getting to a team with Dr J still with 4 good years in him.
Then as Dr J gets older Jordan gets Pippen, Phill Jackson and 2 other solid role players with potential to be Finals MVP.
Also they dont break up in 98 when Jordan is 34, but actually keep going with all of them in their primes until Jordan is 39.
Plus Kobe Bryant added to the team instead of Kawhi.
See how its actually kinda crazy how good the entire spurs were even without talking about Duncan? Low is just not being honest.
Sure all greats had help, but not 16 years of really good help.
Having him from 5 to 10 is normal, but his point is for people having him in the top 5. Which is kinda a reach.
@@sergeistalin7916kobe = kawhi is nasty work
@@sebastiansanchez375 say what you will but Kawhi won a Finals MVP for Duncan and that Spurs team while being very young in his career. A young Kawhi was a far better defender than a young Kobe that's forsure.
@@Flyhrbetter defender? Sure
But the problem with talking about his fmvp when Duncan had a case for both the 07 and 14 fmvp.
I'm not arguing he should have won but he was still one of the best players on the team and very impactful on defense.
@@arvidbjoerk5307 Everyone agrees with that, the point is he had a lot of players that made an impact outside of Duncan.
In every team if a superstar drops from 26/13/3 to 15/10/3 they probably still are the best player in the team, but the rest of the team is always thrash. In Duncans case they keep getting insane young players with talent enough to be FMVPs, that part is not normal.
Tim stopped Lebron from surpassing MJ in rings
He only had 2 finals MVP though.
Lebron’s booty cheeks management stopped LeBron
@@freetheworld2671Tim has 3 final mvp
Let’s stop this narrative when Kawhi won FMVP in 2014. Steph fans also try and use this narrative and it’s false.
Actually lbj stopped Duncan from being undefeated in the finals like mj
Jxmy wasn't even disrespecting Timmy. He was just saying that the mfs who's saying he's the greatest of all time are capping which, as a spurs fan, he's not wrong. He's the greatest pf of all time but not the greatest ever
U not a real spurs fan if u don’t got tim Duncan top 3 all time
Barely anyone calls him the GOAT that’s a stupid point
Nah nobody is saying Duncan is the goat. Obviously those people are delusional, but having a problem with him being top 5 is insane.
@@boubacardiallo5945Most people say he is top 5 all time which is ridiculous,tell me why he should be top 5-6 all time
@@engidohaile201Why shouldn't he be? After Bron, Jordan, and Kareem, there's a lot of room for interpretation depending on what you value personally.
he never called him a role player. u getting mad at jimmy for something he never said…I expected u to be above clickbaiting
He isnt lol
Exactly. He not even slick with it
Did it say role player in the title before?
@@allen_mcnasty yes
Jimmys fans in the comments "You're missing his point, did you even listen to the video or are you trying to push propaganda? Nice click bait"
Jimmy in the video: "Duncan had ALWAYS been surrounded by a winning culture, he benefited from an established winning system and organization as well as HoFers"
LOW: Ginobli and Parker were rookies, Pop was a rookie HC who had inherited a dumpster fire coaching position, and the Spurs were actively tanking prior to getting Duncan, the Spurs winning culture didn't come about until Duncan got there"
Jimmy's fans: "ugh, missing Jimmys point"
I could see both arguments tbh but realistically Timmy did start with pop and from there on pop did build the roster and the culture and rookies or not or second year players they still elite Hof.....fact is you did have 6 hall of famers .. Robinson ,parker, manu, timmy and pop nd late Leonard ... No dynasty's with out pop and Timmy doe facts
@@KarinaMartin-gj8ydmanu was elite out the gate? He couldn’t even win ROTY much less be elite
The Spurs were winning 50+ games every year with David Robinson, they weren’t garbage before Duncan got there. Why do you think this blob didn’t mention the record of the Spurs? Why didn’t you? Oh, that’s right, because it would show that the Spurs were a competent organization that couldn’t win during the Jordan Bulls and Hakeem Rockets years. You are being willfully ignorant and it is not disrespectful to say Duncan is not top-3.
I mean they have a point. LOW didn’t bring up production, he talked about status. Someone can be a rookie and average 20/5/5. Just cause you’re new to the league doesn’t mean you can’t hoop or outplay other superstars especially in a 7 game series. Magic won FMVP in his rookie season…
@@sebastiansanchez375 what are u talking about he is a hall of fame player 😭🤣😂 nd came off the bench but in 4th quarter clutch moments he was on the floor stop it .... He brought the euro step so stop the cap
So why did the AI computer program with no bias That used every number imaginable say Tim Duncan was the second best player of all time.
Source?
@@UTNatlChamps th-cam.com/users/live750T0RA2f60?si=r_eqyKv0Amr2Srra
Look up players choice Tim Duncan goat.
@@dannybachner899 2ndGoat
“Selflish” at 8:03 is wild 🤣🤣🤣
Just for the casuals, the Spurs were pretty damn good team in the 90s. They wasn’t great but they were good. They were a playoff team every year in the 90s. Their worst year was ‘96 when David Robinson was injured and they tanked, which led to Tim Duncan as the #1 pick in ‘97. So yes they didn’t when a Championship until Duncan came but they were a pretty consistent franchise yrs prior to Duncan arriving.
Thank you
It’s crazy to hear someone say the Spurs were a bad franchise. When Robinson came that franchise turned around. I’m a 90s kid I don’t need to look up stats to tell me who was good. Spurs was always in the playoffs, because he wasn’t alive or was a baby at the time he’s always making claims 90s teams are horrible. ‘95 Spurs was supposed to be in Finals that year. Robinson was MVP but Hakeem Olajuwon gave him the business in conf finals.
They also won in a short ass season and mj retired
The whole Kawhi arc shows how much the "hyper competent franchise" narrative is bogus ! They had a generational player, capable of shutting down mfing Lebron James, but made a mess with him because he had a bit much more ego than Ducan (and the man seems to have been right about his poor health).
The had A LOT of luck and maybe some good scouting talent to get Ducan, Wembanyama, Robinson, and especially Kawhi (nobody predicted him to be this good). They have some skills and competence yes, to devellop these players but they had incredible luck in getting them in the first place, and at the right time too. they had to go and get international players like Parker and Ginobili to make it work, nobody in the league with Ginobili talent at that time could have made sacrifices like him (becoming a 6th man) and, in a way, it's unheard of since (Westbrook was considered washed by many when he made that move and that's the closest, no #2 on a team makes that kind of sacrifice).
in 15 years, Tim Duncan had 5 titles in an era he had to face Kobe and Shaq, Lebron with the Heat (Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh), the Bad Boys Pistons, The Durant, Harden, Westbrook Thunder, the Steve Nash Suns, The Kobe and Gasol Lakers. So many great teams it really is incredible that they had so many titles.
The only constants are Popovich, an unproven coach and Duncan, the power foward capable of going toe to toe with Shaq. Guess who they think is overrated?
The big issue I had was when he knocked Duncan for having HOF players and coaches. If you look at most of the players considered top 10 players ever, damn near every one of them needed HOF players/coaches to win championships.
Jordan won 6 and he had Pippen, Phil Jackson and Rodman (second 3 peat).
Kareem won 6 and he had Oscar Robertson and Bob Dandridge (Milwaukee) and Magic, James Worthy, Silk Wilkes, and Pat Riley (Lakers). (Also Bob McAdoo)
Magic won 5 and he had Kareem, Worthy, Wilkes and Pat Riley. (Also Bob McAdoo)
Larry Bird won 3 and he had Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, and Dennis Johnson. (Also Tiny Archibald and Bill Walton)
Shaq won 4 and he had Kobe, Phil Jackson, Wade, and Pat Riley.
Kobe won 5 and he had Shaq, Phil, and Pau Gasol.
Lebron won 4 and he had/has Wade, Bosh, Erik Spoelstra, Kyrie, and AD. (Also Ray Allen)
Steph won 4 and he had/has Klay, Draymond, Steve Kerr, and KD.
It doesn't make sense knocking Tim Duncan for winning 5 championships with a HOF coach (Pop) and some HOF teammates (Parker, Ginobili, David Robinson, Kawhi) if you're not going to do the same to the others.
Lebrons is disingenuous. What was Bosh, Kyrie or Love doing before pairing with Lebron. What have they done since? The only proven star was Wade and he was 2-3 years away from his knees giving out.
@@panashe5268 This wasn't about them. They were stars on bad/mediocre teams who won when they got to play next to an all time great. My point was that most top 10 players win championships with great players and coaches and that shouldn't be used to discredit them.
@@panashe5268 well then Lebron fans are just the best at being victims lol. Every time dude lost and you all acted as if he had YMCA rosters, lol. No wonder stars do not want to join him, because once dude hog the ball, and the team lose, its everyone's fault but Lebron. "But but Lebron averaged... and his team only averaged..." What law says all stats are equal, especially postseason stats ? Julian Edelman has postseason stats comparable of Jerry Rice, has 3 rings like Rice, 1 SB MVP like Rice. So... Edelman = top 5 wide receiver all time ? Also, Lebron is the king of cap and y'all look at the world under the same lense as him, acting as if he was relatable. Good lord, niggas, please.
@@panashe5268what was Lebron doing be fair when it time to be fair Lebron wasn’t doing anything either
No Sean Elliott slander, dude was a decent starter for a long time.
"So I was on Twitter." And thats where you fucked up😭🤣😭🤣
Just to note since for whatever reason most people don't know this when they're overrating Bill Russells 11 NBA championship rings
In Russels rookie season 1956-57 - there were only 8 total teams in the NBA. Then in 1961-62 they added a new team - 9 teams. 1966-67 -10 teams. In 1967-68 - 12 teams. In 1968-69 Russels last season 14 teams.
And besides the ridiculously limited teams, the NBA was a mess. There weren't team salary caps. I don't even think there were salary minimums. The Celtics had a relatively stacked team and half the teams were new franchises trying to get off the ground. The competition was astronomically less compared to now.
For me at least it's extremely difficult to rank players pre 1970 and even pre 1980 to a lessor degree. There were even at the very least a decent percentage of pro calibar players not playing pro basketball during Russels timeline for a wide array of reasons. Compared to today when there's a global network feeding guys into the NBA system. And so much about the game has changed... it's comparing apples to oranges. When looking at most top 50 or top 100 players list it's amazing how overrated the old school players are, pre 1970. They end up comprising over 35% on the average best players list. To put it in perspective the total number of players in the NBA on a yearly basis added up from 1950-1970 (they had smaller team rosters as well) is equivalent to the combined players for 3 years any time during the last 30 years. Even if you create a fantasy land where you don't penalize old school players for their limited competition and skill levels, they should only comprise 15% if one was to consider total player volume, not that one necessarily should, but smaller/limited competition should certainly be taken into account.
Underrated comment
You can an argurment for 11 guys beings GOATs. However in my opinion Tim is in the 6 to 10 range.
To be fair Phil Jackson was a rookie coach when he took over the Bulls too
I don't completely disagree with a lot of what LOW said but you also made some really disingenuous points. Sure the Spurs fired multiple head coaches before Duncan but they also won an average of 58 games in the 3 seasons prior... FIFTY EIGHT. You then mentioned how they haven't been great since Duncan left even though they won 67 and 61 games in back to seasons, a FRANCHISE RECORD with him practically retired. Even after Kawhi left they were a 50 win team before completely rebuilding which most teams eventually do. It just feels like some of the arguments were in bad faith is all.
Tim played in the 67 win season bro.
And outside of the 1 season after Duncan retired they haven’t won 50 games in a season.
@@sebastiansanchez375 You're right he did my bad but he was hardly a star at that point. Again I think he's one of the greats, I just think we dont need to pretend the Spurs haven't been successful without him. We can just appreciate his greatness without creating narratives
LOW didn’t bring up production either, he talked about status. Someone can be a rookie and average 20/5/5. Just cause you’re new to the league doesn’t mean you can’t hoop or outplay other superstars especially in a 7 game series. Magic won FMVP in his rookie season…
I don’t think most ppl really know how to rank non perimeter players at all , to me that shows true lack of understanding of the game
Players are not the system. Pop, RC and Duncan built the system. Robinson built the character of the franchise.
Saying that the players changed actually supports the system argument, but you don't seem to realize it
6:07 Look at those records tho. The team was almost in the playoffs every year and pretty decent at that. Robinson was also hurt the year before Tim came in.
Jxmmy only tried to say that he thinks that Duncan isn't top 5 and is more around nr 7 or so and while I personally think that's still incorrect as Tim is around No4 on the list. It isn't that wild of a take.
He's only claiming that Duncan used to be underrated not being in the top 10 by the general public but is now being overrated by being counted as top 3/top5.
Tim was always put into he too 5 tho. It was never a time where he wasn’t too 5. The only people who didn’t have him top 5 was casuals. I think Jxmmy starting to lose it his last couple of takes have been crazy.
People keep saying KG could've replaced Duncan.
No, he couldn't.
Pop became a no nonsense, in your face, "imma get you out of the game for that bs" type of coach because Timmy, as great as he was, allowed Pop to coach him.
Timmy was a unique superstar. His ego wasn't hurt for being berrated, singled out or yelled at; it only hurt when he felt responsible for losing. Later on he even took less money so his teammates could be payed more, and relegated his own role and numbers with the advent of the perimeterer centered offenses.
If Timmy made those sacrifices, how could Manu not play off the bench? How could Parker not work his butt off to change Spurs' style when the league became more guard oriented? How could anyone else not sacrifice for the team, when their foundational player is the one sacrificing the most?
That's Bill Russell type leadership.
KG had a different character (not better, not worse, just different). I don't think Pop would've grown as a coach, nor KG as player if both had to put up with one another.
Ergo: the Spurs wouldn't have become a dinasty.
He called it a hot take, and you got hot. Mission accomplished.
it’s not hate or disrespect at all, he’s just saying that recently people have been acting like he’s top 3 of all time
So what??
You can still make the case nah?
@@bigfundamental1096pretty debunked case tbh
They were actively making the playoffs every year with DR then tanked effectively to get tim, then won the finals the next season. THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN BY ACCIDENT. put some respect on the spurs
Did you not hear about the amount of coaches they had in a ten year span? Also does that mean the nuggets were very competent when they had Melo because they made the playoffs almost every year and had the same number of conference finals appearances?
even with the changing of coaches they were consistently making deepish playoff runs multiple times. And no the nuggets were not competent with melo because they got bounced out the playoffs every year in the first round. it takes a competent organization to make good changes when you see your team not reach their peak.@@sebastiansanchez375
@@sebastiansanchez375You don’t win 50+ games for nearly a decade straight without being a competent franchise. Who cares if the coaches change if their record is great?
Facts I was just thinking bout this Gilbert arenas said this on his podcast
It cracks me up every time low starts to pop off. You would think he hates doing this but ik he loves it. He be so annoyed, pissed, and talking crazy EVERY VIDEO then he ends the video so chill it’s always a fun watch😂
Tim Duncan is a top 10 player of all time. We're talking about a man that beat Shaq and Kobe in the playoffs. And honestly, 4-10 all time are a complete toss up. If you put Timmy 4th or 5th after MJ, LeBron, and Kareem, I feel like that just means you value defense and consistency, cause he's definitely the best defender amongst the remaining people in the top 10 people and it's not really close. But it's still perfectly valid pick to put him in your top 5. I don't order anybody past 4 anyway, they just exist in that range.
Just Duncan? No Robinson still a top 10 player? No Parker no Ginobli?
@@coloneldusty447613.3 ppg with 6.5 rbs and 1.8 asts on 28 mpg is top ten all time play? Crazy standards. That was Robinson’s stats vs Kobe and Shaq when he won in 99.
@@sebastiansanchez375 Robinson was another big that the lakers had to account for besides Duncan he might not have been in his prime but was still crucial in that title . that was Robinsons team and he made the spurs into contenders not duncan who walked into what was already established
@@sebastiansanchez375 Robinson was the defensive anchor on the team. Not Tim. Who do you think was dealing with world breaker Shaq? Definitely not Duncan.
Bro, Tim Duncan is in my top5. He was my top4 but with Lebrons record breaking of points, he went to 5th and Lebron os #4 now.
I think he's competing with Magic for the 5th all time.
Super simplified version, Tim Duncan elevated the perception of the Spurs organization and their coaching like Brady did for the Patriots. Looked trash before they were there, went into absolute dynasty mode while they were there, and right back to competing for bottom 5 in the league once they left.
Ion like how low just put ty lue in the same convo as pop riles and phil like cmon bruh. Yk lebron hasnt had nearly the front office’s these other dudes had. You coulda left bron alone
Ima say this Tim Duncan had it made in San Antonio but he also made San Antonio
People don’t realize that Gregg Pop was actually the GM for the Spurs prior to him becoming the head coach of the Spurs
It's like you didn't even listen to what he said
Because he wants to embarrass Jimmy for YT views and doesn’t care about being intellectually honest.
The Spurs were always consistent. Not always the same players but ALWAYS a good team. And how many players... only all time greats who had great teammates like Tim had LoL. Jimmy said nothing wrong in his video.
EXACTLY
Prior to TD... how many times did they even sniff the finals? Maybe once... they lost in the wcf... consistent, but never as consistent as they were when td arrived.
Low is laughably incorrect about the Sputs b4 Tim Duncan. They were in the playoffs every year after drafting Robinson and even when they lost in the playoffs, it was to either the WCF champs or the NBA Finals champ. They were a 55+ win team from 88-89 to 95-96, 5 out of 7 years during that span.
Spurs did not win any rings without Duncan.
@@ed4l63 they had an mvp and multiple 55+win seasons
@@bboywolf with nothing to show for it though. At some point, you have to want to be champions. Not just a great regular season team.
I mean what so you think of the mid 2000’s to 2011 nuggets who had melo? They had 4 50+ win seasons and a 49 win season between 2004/05 - 2010/11 and had the same number of WCF appearances as Robinson had prior to Duncan getting drafted? And made the playoff every year of his career?
@@ed4l63 that means they literally added tim duncan to a 55+ win team with an mvp hof player lol no other top 10 player ever joined a team that successful
i think Duncan is clearly behind jordan, lebron, shaq, and kareem, but after that, i could see him being as high as 5, and he's certainly top 10. the man just got it done year in and year out and was just good at literally everything. also the spurs would have won 0 rings without Duncan. they had minimal success before him and minimal success after him. only other point i can make is that you are incorrect about Kareem not sniffing a championship for a decade, he literally won in his second season with his best supporting player being a declining Oscar Robertson. and he won MVP that year.
How is he clearly behind Shaq?
Tim Duncan is the most selfless superstar ever.
GOAT leader!
he aint no damn kobe mj Kareem or Lebron lets just keep him out of goat discussions he was barely impressive as a scorer
So you really gone ignore the fact that they had 7 winning seasons and 50 plus wins 6 of the seasons b4 Tim got there… yea they had a lot of coaches because they underachieved.. the teams was good David got hurt season before Tim got there that why record was bad
They achieved nothing. Regular season wins totals with playoff failures isn’t success.
Someone like Kobe however was drafted to a team that won 12 without him and another 4 years after. Played for a coach who has 6 without him.
What has SA or Pop done without Duncan?
I’m a Spurs fan and the the Spurs org/Pop argument is kinda silly. Jordan, Kobe, and Shaq all had Phil Jackson. The Lakers are a powerful organization that are able to sign essentially any player they want. But this argument is held only to Duncan.
Tim Duncan is a top 5/6 player of all time and that's irrefutable especially because he's viewed as the best ever in one position. Every other person that's seen as the best in a position is also viewed as top 5....PG - Magic, SG - MJ, SF - Bron, C - Kareem. Even if we are gonna put Bill Russell as 5th for good measure, then Tim Duncan has to come in next before anyone else.
Literally no one called tim duncan a role player here this video lmao😂😂😂 low trying to be a sleek ...stop this bs man someone making a take that tim duncan is not a top 5 player of all time is not that big of a deal ...just stop this
I'm a big Jimmy fan but he deserves LOW clapping him hard here lol. Timmy D IS the foundation of the whole Spurs dominant era. Could well be a Chicago like wait till they on top again and who knows when they will be back in the finals. Jimmy tried to act like he wasn't disrespecting him then ended up disrespectful lol.
Tim Duncan literally made the spurs the historic franchise they are today. He's like Tom Brady to the partriots. He's establish that culture and reverence they just done a good job keeping it (not thr winning) since he retired
I love jxmy videos but that one was out of nowhere, slander completely out of nowhere
No discredit to pop but just like the patriots we can say it probably was the superstar player making the system look better that it was
Idk bout that one chief pop orcastrated the dynasty literally built starting with Timmy and building the culture and let manu do manu shyt when at the time was unheard of ...euro ball into modern basketball...
I won't accept this bs. I understand kids didn't watch Jordan but Duncan won his last chip in 2014. Y'all ain't that young. He top 5 all time!
wouldn’t say tim duncan is overrated. tim is exactly who he is and was. Is he the greatest power forward ever…NO, ESPN has helped push that narrative. How when he played most of his career as a center. Is he a top 5 player ever…NO. How when you have the KB24’s,The Birds,The Magic Johnsons,The LBJ’s, The Kareem and Jordans. Is he a top 5 PF…Yes? In our opinion the greatest pf of all time debate should rightfully go to the always underrated Karl Malone. People forget that TD came in the league at the right time and dominated a league that became guard orriented . But let’s not forget when he entered the league the eldestatemen of the PF position was Malone who was STILL dominating the league and the position for 6-8 yrs afterwards. People ALWAYS FORGET smh
Duncan is #5 or 6 on my list only players that are better is LeBron, Jordan, Kareem, Wilt & possibly Magic… that’s literally it. If Duncan was “flashy” people would literally call him the goat.
Bruh just casually ignores the fact that the spurs were winning games before Duncan with Robinson being as dominant as he was
And only 1 conference finals appearance to show for it in like 7 years. All the rest are 1st or second round exits not to mention after he came back from that injury he was not close to the same guy he was prior to it which is why mentioning that is important.
@@sebastiansanchez375 So because Kobe wasn’t winning after Shaq that means that means he wasn’t good with Gasol? Kobe was trash because he wasn’t winning rings, got it.
If you're gonna put Kobe in the GOAT debate based on accolades, stats and overall impact on the game, then just by merit of those virtues alone then Tim Duncan belongs in that debate also.
Saying the Spurs weren't competent before Duncan arrived doesn't mean they were so when he was there lol, Jimmy was right.
They made consistently great moves and freshened up their roster for over 17 years.
Because Timmy made it happen. The organization completely collapsed without him.
@@jwc7215 if they don’t lose Kawhi, they would still be one of the better teams in the Western Conference
You just contradicted yourself
Because they drafted Duncan dumbazzz...
Bruh putting all this emotion into this when he said TD is SLIGHTLY overrated. At the beginning of the video he says Tim is the 5-10 spot and is the best PF of all time. And you ain’t even show the whole vid come on low I fwu but this not it
He made Kobe cry on national TV
Kobe has a winning record against Tim Duncan in the playoffs. And the Spurs never successfully defended any of their championships.
@@theincandescent1*winning record with Shaq
@@lorddj9910without shaq too
Hakeem has a winning record against Jordan, lebron is 16-6 vs Kobe.
@@judahmourneth3211 what’s LeBron‘s record against Kobe in the playoffs?? oh I forgot they never met. When the Cavs were winning 60 games a year someway somehow they couldn’t get to the Finals inals while the Lakers were going there three years in a row
I see how he stopped the video because Jimmy Highroller right afterwards says Timmy the reason for the system
Duncan created the dynasty, not inherited it
Magic was never coached by phil jackson just saying and i dont understand what is being argued
W take Low
Let’s be honest from that 2007 spurs championship Tim Duncan was past his prime and the spurs were a far better team built around him
What do people mean massive disrespected ?Saying that Tim is not a top 5 player in NBA HISTORY is not a massive disrespect, hot take at worst
The Tim Duncan disrespect is definitely crazy. Duncan faced the Shaq/Kobe Lakers 4 times in the playoffs and went 2-3.
'98-'99 - Spurs won 4-0. Phil Jackson wasn't coach for the Lakers yet.
'00-'01 - Lakers won 4-0.
'01-'02 - Lakers won 4-1. However, Duncan was clearly the best player on the court. He led both teams in scoring, rebounding, and blocks, and tied for the second most steals.
'02-'03 - Spurs won 4-2.
'03-'04 - Lakers won 4-2. Spurs lost Robinson and Lakers added Malone and Payton.
Duncan definitely held his own against one of the greatest teams ever that had two top 10 (or top 15 at worst) players off all-time. But Duncan gets diminished for having Pop, who ended up being one of the greatest coaches ever, but Shaq and Kobe don't get diminished for having Jackson who was arguably THE greatest coach ever even before he joined the Lakers? Get that crap out of here.
Hakeem was better
@@ryanr20091 Oh absolutely! Olajuwon is my favorite player of all time.
@@celestialdemon1316 yeah that's why I'm not all that impressed with duncan . I have seen much better.
people looked at the 2013 and 2014 spurs and think thats how it has been for 20+ years
Crazy the amount of comments hating on this take when it’s not even that crazy. Dude literally said he was 7th best ALL TIME, and we r acting like jimmy said he was a role player. I feel like putting mj, bron, magic, and kareem at least above Duncan makes sense for most fans. It’s also an opinion, like tf
My question Is, how many people have Duncan ranked Top 3-5? To use that small of a sample size to say he’s overrated Is silly.
13:25 Asian David Robinson! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Jimmy must have signed with Klutch sports. We all know he calls Lebby his King. Probably wants to lie on Duncan for his Kings sake.
You clearly didn't watch the Jimmy video bc he slanders LeBron. Secondly, downplaying Duncan would be downplaying Bron's competition, so it only helps LeBron for Duncan to be uplifted instead of slandered. You gotta think before you speak, or ur gonna just look like a hater.
Low yelling about the Spurs not being "consistent" but Jimmy specifically said the organization surrounded Tim with good talent. Low don't realize that by bringing up how much player movement the Spurs had proves Jimmy's point that they made it a priority to put good competent players around Tim Duncan
People get to emotional about others top 10
You can't compare the Spurs before Pop ran the show as GM and coach, with afterwards. It became vastly different. The Spurs after that point are the model that every small market team tries to follow. They made the playoffs 20 years in a row, and won a title after Timmy's decline. Why are you trying to say the Spurs weren't a premier organization during Ducan's career? Pop is venerated as one of the greatest coach's ever. Are you denying that cuz that was part of the point Higholler was making. Also, when has an NBA org gotten more buy in by their 3 best players? Duncan, Parker and Ginobli are still pretty much on the team.
He is overrated, not a role player obviously but he’s the only one in the top 10 convo who gets none of the same pushback the rest get. If anybody you want to compare him with had two stars in Ginobli/TP the whole time they would have repeated, not losing to 8 seeds and losing in the Olympics. You don’t hear anybody talk about any of his failures (because they didn’t watch and get their opinions from revisionists)
I mean everybody has those same failures, wether it’s wilt literally being able to barley win a chip, Bill playing against ppl who still had day jobs, LeBron in ‘11, MJ getting dog walked by the pistons and essentially dodging Hakeem. Also like showed in the video, these players essentially grew together, manu rookie and TP 2nd year. There is no way to know how good those two become with anyone not named Tim Duncan and I have no reason to assume it would’ve worked bc you have situations like Vince n Tracy etc.
@@calebstevens9446 Except everyone else gets knocked for it and nobody says anything about Duncan because they didn’t watch basketball till 2015. Losing in the Olympics & losing to an 8 seed is generational losing that nobody else would get away with. Tony & Manu were 25ppg caliber guys who sacrificed immensely to be Spurs and now a bunch of teens act like Duncan played with role players
@@businessk3014that’s just not true. The main discredit I see for Duncan is that he’s never been able to defend his championship with ample opportunity. Which is a completely fair criticism, but the only time you need to pull out that stain is if you’re speaking to some1 who has Duncan much higher than he’s supposed to be, anytime any1 has him 5-8, everybody just goes “huh yeah” and moves on. There’s nothing to say, as long as they stay consistent in THEIR list and what they value.
@@calebstevens9446 everything I said was a fact. You being super sensitive to anything negative about Duncan doesn’t negate it. You lost a bunch of criticism about actual top 10 guys and everyone has heard it a million times, I say Duncan lost to an 8 seed and people don’t even know what I’m talking about. Hes not held to a fraction of the standard the rest are
@@businessk3014 idek what you’re saying anymore I’m a clippers fan with no loyalty to Duncan. This is y I can’t have conversations with niggas anymore. “Sensitive to criticism”? Huh?????????????? I think we’re done speaking.
its called "Own Opinion" whats wrong with that?
Is it also an "opinion" to just provide factually false information? Cause that's what Jimmy did. Look man, I love Jimmy, easily my favorite basketball YTer and it's not even close but dick riding is just terrible. If someone makes a mistake, you call them out on it no matter who it is or how much you like them.
6:45 untrue. Duncan could have been replaced by a similar great like kg and the spurs would have been successful. Maybe not 5 but who knows.
I was waiting for this because Jxmmy was outta pocket for that I’m a diehard lifelong San Antonio Spurs fan pre David Robinson so I’ve been here throughout it all, to say Timmy is overrated is like spitting in that man’s face. I’m still baffled at how he didn’t win 1 DPOY, but has been talked about as arguably the greatest defender of all time just because you don’t like consistency and someone who isn’t flashy doesn’t mean they don’t warrant the spot in historically top 5 or otherwise.
No player in NBA history has won more than 1 title without a current All-NBA teammate.
Apart from Duncan, who did it 4 times.
Top 5 all time without question.
Exactly most people don't know that because they think of Tony Parker and manu in the late 2000s. No one won with less
@@dannybachner899 Seriously. I absolutely love Tony and Manu but they were borderline all-stars during their primes.
He was surrounded by Hall of Famers his entire career. They were a 60 win team before they got him.
@@theincandescent1 And how many players were on that 60 win team that were still on the team when Duncan got there. Lol
@@theincandescent130+ years in the NBA and the team haven’t even made a finals without him. Being a a good regular season team isn’t success, is it?
HOF is such a weak argument, and one lead by people who can’t comprehend that players don’t play the same every season, do they?
Where ever you place Kobe you have to put tim above him. Tim was a better player. Kobe was more flashy
What people mean about consistency they mean about spurs front office making great decisions throughout duncan’s career and barely wasting his career like the lakers did with kobe (in his prime) for example, also gregg popovich wasn’t a rookie coach his whole career bruh, he literally became a top 3 coach ever if not 1. I got Duncan top 4 all time tho, he’s done a lot with no much help compared to other greats.
What has he done after ? Look at spurs now they got a generational talent are they good ? Yes the game have change but still pops can’t make miracles happen the players can .
Pop is only top 3 coaches because he had Duncan. Before and after Timmy he did nothing but lose.
@@holypopy wemby is in his rookie season bruh you can’t expect them being a playoff team just because he got there and after duncan spurs were actually a great team until kawhi left and then after 2019 they were on rebuild and now they got wemby, coaches are a big part of a team success and if you don’t realize that go watch more ball
@@jwc7215 phil jackson had mj, pippen, shaq and kobe, spo had d wade, lebron, bosh, jimmy, kerr had kd, steph, curry, klay, out of all those coaches pop had the less talent and still got more chips than all of them but phil, after duncan spurs actually got very good seasons until kawhi left and made the playoffs until 2019, they had one of the worst teams until now. Duncan didn’t make him a top 3 coach, pop made himself a top 3 coach ever. Without pop duncan doesn’t have at much success and without duncan pop neither.
Wasn’t expecting that reaction to him saying he’s slightly over placed by 3 or 4 spots