The "Much Darker Story" is him saying at that point in time Roman left the company due to Leukima, the story could rather easily could of ended badly. Leukima being a hard fight and his mental health at the time being awful, Wolf saying "This is Not that story" Is that we live in the world where things worked out oddly brilliantly.
"My real name is Joe, and I've been living with leukemia for 11 years." If that sentence doesn't grind your mind to a halt the first time you hear it, something wrong with your ass.
The "sadder" version of the story was what if Roman never recovered and returned. Also while this video doesn't say it Roman actually returned long before the 2020 lockdown and announced he was in remission. He just went away again at the start of the lockdown because of his weaker immune system and higher risk of infection.
Raw is the name of WWE’s weekly show that airs every Monday. It’s actually the longest running weekly TV show of all time. Smackdown is the name of their Friday show.
@@Airier RAW is the flagship show of WWE. ROH (Ring of Honor) is a "competing" indie-wrestling promotion. maybe you have seen that somewhere before, therefore the confusion.
The sadder story, if I were to guess, is Joe never recovers, and that promo, not even the remission one Wolf missed, is the last promo Roman Reigns ever gives.
i remember that night well. no one knew, outside of a few higher ups, that roman was gonna come out there and say what he did. that's why seth and dean were legit crying because they found out at the same time as everyone else.
You know, my sister watched this video before I did. And when we watched it together during the section about Roman being so hated, at one point I was like "you know, they should just make him a heel. He's already hated by everyone. That'd probably make him super interesting. At least I think so." And then my sister just gives me that look of "yes, would be interesting. What an idea. Haha." And when we got to that face at the end here I was like "OH. That's why you gave me that look."
Roman choked when he went quiet and forgot his lines. That’s what choking means in this context. Actually, in general. It’s only used in other ways in, for example, other sports (like a team losing in a cup final) cause it works well in that context too. But choking is exactly what Roman did there, he literally choked - his brain froze and he opened his mouth but nothing comprehensible came to mind and he just went silent.
Also, the video didn't cover it, but Roman did return in 2019 to announce that he's in remission and returned as a full time wrestler. He was not really in the top title picture in 2019, instead he spent the entire year in a feud with other wrestlers. The pandemic in 2020 started to hit and Roman didn't want to show up and wanted to stay at home with his family because of his health condition.
7:36 "One bad day on the internet... It doesn't bother me.. it shouldn't bother me. it bothers me. It bothers me a lot! AND THAT ONE STILL GREEN!" (Referencing one of my favorite moment in TFS -DBZA)
11:15 Raw is the show on Mondays under the WWE Smackdown is the show on fridays under WWE These are treated as "Brands" so normally a guy you see on Raw will not show up on Smack Down and vice versa. WWE also has a show called "Main Event" where the lower named stars wrestle on in "Dark Matches" matches that are taped before the main shows.
Became a member to catch this early, looking forward to your reaction to the next part. I too, was one of those wrestling fans that grew resentful of the way WWE was pushing Roman in the beginning of his career, sadly it took his leukemia announcement for most of us to snap back to reality and realize how badly we treated him over the years This next part of the video however proved all his haters wrong and solidified him as one of the best comeback stories of his generation ☝️
It seems to me that Wolf omitted one important thing: WWE kept pushing Roman to the moon regardless of his crowd reaction beacuse he actually was a top seller and a beloved wrestler among families, which are the most profitable audience (multiplied tickets for non-televised shows, toys, merchandise, loyalty to the product since the kids will watch whaterver happens without questioning too much from a critical standpoint). Unfortunately, tv shows crowds are usually filled by hardcore fans, who are willing to pay hundreds if not thousands of money to attend them. SO, that's where the dissonance come from (also happened with John Cena for a good chunk of his career).
Also, even Cena was still less flawed than Roman was in his "Big Dawg" persona. His moveset may have ended up weaker even than pre-heel turn Roman and of course his gimmick was all kinds of white bread, but Cena was always charismatic on the mic.
What probably happened in the John Cena/Roman Reigns segment was Roman being thrown in the deep end by WWE creative. This Cena vs Reigns match they were building to was easily the biggest of Roman’s career and they probably wanted to see how he would handle himself in the most high pressure situation. Cena is the ultimate company guy. He would never go off script, refuse to do something or go into business for himself. He must have been told to pull no punches and not to help Roman if he can’t keep up. I still have no idea how this wasn’t the end of main event Roman Reigns, but it worked out well in the end.
No. Cena's big enough to go off script, and if he was the ultimate company guy, he would have stayed with the company. Randy Orton, HHH and Seth Rollins are ultimate company guys. This was Cena burying the guy he was brought back to help. The angle was planned, but he want a lot farther than he needed to.
10 minutes in, Airier is like "he was stuck as a good guy, rather than a heel, which he might have been able to do better as.." Me: 'Massive evil grin' Soooon..... 😈 PS: Don't worry, it isn't an Undertaker gimmick.. it is so much more 😈
Roman Reigns returned from fighting leukaemia before 2020 - but I'm fairly sure Super Eyepatch Wolf neglected to mention that because 2019 was a notoriously awful year for both Reigns and the company itself
I nearly broke my neck in 2012; i have a ruptured disc in my neck, spinal stenosis and permanent nerve damage. I was forced to quit MMA by doctors at the age of 18. My grandfather passed away March 2017, 9 Months later in Christmas 2017 my Aunt passed away from cancer. Then Christmas Day 2021 my Grandfather passed away fron a heart attack and my uncle took his own life February 2023. Lots of death in my family, it has honestly changed how i view my own life. Then theres this; 13 stiches in my forehead, 8 staples in my left thumb, 6 broken ribs, broken toe, broken right ankle, 2 dislocated shoulders, 10 concussions, sliced my foot on broken glass, almost cut my pinky toe off with a box cutter. And this has all happened before i turn 30. And the crazy thing is, when all this was happening in my personal life; people still treated me like the bad guy at work. Its like i had a bit of anger from losing loved ones, i was still dealing with the effects from my concusions. I was pissed off but i did my job. I lost friends because i was real. But the best part is, im still breathibg!
I hope you'll be able to do the rest in one sitting , because the story of Roman from the point you left off shows incredible change ( Its cool if you dont I actually like how you format the breaks in the video it feels episodic)
by "a much sadder story" he meant a sort of alternate reality where roman reigns never came back, because of the leukemia. for one reason or....another.
Roman actually came back a couple months before quarantine happened but had to leave because of a covid scare, so that’s what he means when he says that Roman hasn’t been seen in months
Don't know if the first video mentioned this, but a big problem with Romans initial push was Vince McMahon's idea that you needed to have one single big name to be the face of the entire company, rather than build up a number of household names. Vince had done it with Hulk Hogan back in the day, then John Cena later. As brutal as Cena's words were, he wasn't wrong: when John Cena went part-time, rather than try to make a new star out of Roman, he just tried the hammer Roman into a Cena shaped hole. Also, the table in the middle of the ring is a very common thing. In real sports like MMA or boxing the competitors have to sign a contract acknowledging where and on what date the champion in competitor will compete for the belt. They do the same thing in wrestling, just they make a big show out of it for obvious reasons, which, yes, usually ends with someone going through the table.
Cena had two advantages over roman during his darkest periods of popularity. 1: He was great on the mic, and even if the crowd hates how you are being written/booked it can give you a lot more wriggle room even with the haters. and 2: From near as I could tell he was very popular with the younger demo so a lot of his matches a chorus of younger voices going 'LETS GO CENA' and a chorus of older voices going 'CENA SUCKS' so at least it felt like someone was in his corner and he was indeed SELL THAT MERCH so even if a loud part of the demo didn't like him he was doing his job as the face of the company well enough (that job being: making money )
I’m not afraid to admit I cried a little bit when Roman/Joe revealed his leukaemia was back. Even watching it back now I still get a little choked up. As someone with family who has gone through similar struggles with cancer, I’ll never not respect what he’s been able to accomplish. That’s a legit tough mf right there. Throw ‘em up for the Tribal Chief. F cancer!☝️
I've never been a fan of Cena, but this to me is his absolute lowest point. They brought him back to *help* a guy who was struggling not just professionally but emotionally from being put through the wringer by WWE and the fans for *years* ...and Cena buries him worse than CM Punk did. Like Cena's famous for burying talent, but this takes the cake. The only redeeming part of that is that he actually seems to feel bad about it now. Cena has said Roman's ability to elevate others is what he admires about him the most.
1:07 Alright. John Cena. The short version of John Cena was that he was presented as invincible to the point of being harmful to stories. "Here's this interesting new cha- John Cena beat them." "Well what about- Cena beat them." "Now we have a fascinating riva- Cena wins lol" What made this especially annoying was that after they lost to Cena, Vince would give up on this interesting new character and they lost all momentum like Gohan post Cell.. A feud with Cena SHOULD have been something fans were excited for, but instead they started to dread it because it could be the end of the character not being treated like a joke. The Nexus were like a tidal wave of destruction, an invading force threatening the entire landscape of the WWE... Then after their feud with Cena, they're a bunch of losers. Bray Wyatt was a calculating cult leader, but after losing to Cena, he became a directionless nutjob. Rusev loses to Cena and goes from an unstoppable monster, to a literal cuck. Zack Ryder was an underdog fan favourite, but just by being NEAR Cena, he was turned into a comedy prop and hapless loser. Even on the rare times Cena DID lose, those losses were invalidated and ignored. He decisively loses the world title to CM Punk twice, and yet despite NOT being the champion, he gets top billing anyway and is treated as the most important guy instead of the champion who BEAT him. He gets annihilated by Brock Lesner, but just comes back in two weeks like nothing happened (Hell, he looked STRONGER). He loses clean to Kevin Owens and then just beats him a month later, then again the next month as though he just reloaded his old save on the loss. And yeah. That's the SHORT version. For the long version, I recomend Just Alyx's "John Cena: What Fans Want vs. What Corporate Wants" which was made in the middle of the Cena animosity and Wrestletalks' "10 Worst Missteps WWE Made With John Cena" which is more of a post Cena autopsy. 1:30 Oh, yeah. It's one of the most OVERUSED tropes in wrestling. The champion and challenger go to sign the contract for their fight in the middle of the ring, snipe at each other on the microphone, get into a fight. Someone goes through the table. When I say overused, I mean that horror movies use JUMPSCARES less than wrestling uses that trope. 4:02 Not scripted. But planned ahead of time. They were improvising their lines, but they were doing a "worked shoot" See, a "Shoot" is when a fight or insult is real and not part of the script. For example, Steve Austin breaking his neck mid-match was a "Shoot". He genuinely broke his neck. That was not a part of the story and very nearly ruined the entire story around his character. Meanwhile, a work is all the fictional stuff you normally see. So a "Worked Shoot" is where they bring something from the real life into the fictional storyline. Breaking the fourthwall to do so. Personally, I'm not a fan. It's like Ironman telling Captain America: "Your actor is overpaid. Now I'm gonna beat you up!" You've taken the audience out of the story by directly acknowledging it's artificial, but then trying to use the artificality to build excitement for the fiction. 9:21 Yeah. You're probably spot on. And he had the bodytype Vince has a fetish for. The problem, is that Vince "Grape with a silent G my employees" McMahon could never write a compelling good guy because he didn't HAVE any sense of right and wrong. Imagine if Lex Luthor tried to create a superhero, then make Lex senile. Make him a 90's Lex written by someone who wants to make their villains as grossly evil as possible to be "edgy", make that Lex Luthor a manchild who still thinks poop is funny. Take away the slightest shred of dignity or intelligence from this Lex and make him a cartoonish parody of conservative America, then have THAT Lex write dialogue for his "superhero"... Roman was the guy who had to play that Lex's idea of what a superhero is. So... yeah, I'm sorry, but you were completely right. 14:31 There was a small, but non-zero minority when this news broke that were convinced this was a trick "Nah... nah, they can't fool me! They want to trick me into feeling sorry for him! Think that'll make me like him huh?!!"
The sadder story is one where either Joe ends up dying to his leukemia or it prevents him from returning to wrestling. He was able to win and come back until the pandemic where he had to go away again because of health concerns of course
To bring some more context of how badly the leadership of WWE (i.e. Vince Mcmahon and the many people who worked to appease Vince Mcmahon) wanted Roman to succeed in WWE, they went and got the guy public speaking and or acting lessons (I forget whether it was both or just acting lessons but he definitely got acting lessons) to help his in ring character work. Thankfully, when Roman finally did change his character up and became to villain of the weekly TV stories, he shined as now he not only had something he could use to his strength in the Tribal Chief character, he had the acting ability to truly sell the character and the performances, which made the storylines even better.
I point this out on Eyepatch wolf's video but I'll mention it again here, Roman was actually only gone for about 4 months, even when he came back though he wasn't suddenly cheered or anything, he got the 'welcome back, we're happy you're healthy again' pop but the thing is Roman still represented the coporate pushed face the crowd didn't want. For a good eight months after his return (and before covid) Roman matches were strange because people no longer felt right booing him due to the illness but he wasn't really getting over either so a good chunk of the time his matches were fiarly flat in terms or crowd response. When Covid hit Roman walked out as he was a 'at high risk' person for covid and didn't return until about 6 months later which was show in the video when he interuppted the Fiend/Browman match. But yeah there is a good 8-10 month period SEW doesn't cover, maybe for time contraints or a narative reason but honestly it's one of the strangest feelins wanting to boo a guy because he's the coporate chosen but not wanting to boo him because the actual Joe has just recovered from illness, thankfully they turned him heel and honestly it was the smartest thing they ever did for him. Sorry for the long post.
The "much sadder story" would just be if that was his actual retirement. If his entire career was a giant disaster in the largest spotlight in the industry and then it ended with cancer. But this isn't that story because he came back years later and reinvented himself.
Lots of wrestling fans were in the same seat when he announced his blood cancer. A sort of shame and guilt over being unwilling to recognize that he had improved out of sheer spite.
Roman choked against Cena by forgetting his lines. Cena does not get scripted lines. At best, Cena gets points he needs to hit. Roman is different. Roman was given scripted lines and that night, he forgot. Cena is also untouchable, so not even Vince would stop him if he got off script. The sadder story mentioned is an alternate reality where Roman's leukemia does not go back into remission and he unfortunately would not return. Also, Roman returned after 5 months, but decided to take a break when the pandemic started because he is immuno-compromised.
So from what I gather the trash talk is scripted in the sense points are approved and they cant swear but you still go out with a large degree of freedom to say what you want. CM Punk when he did his famous pipe bomb knew he was allowed to say what he wanted about the company WWE for his brand but when he starts talking about stuff that could of fucked with the WWE money they cut him off
They used to be a lot more scripted, but now the talent is given talking points and just Ad Lib. Some do need full scripts because hey don't have those skills, though.
As for your question about whether him being well like is why they pushed him as the face so hard, it's extremely unlikely. That would be a decision by both Creative and Vince McMahon, at that time, and the fact that he got along and was liked by members of the locker room wouldn't really have an effect on that. In WWE at that time the writers and wrestlers didn't interact all that much directly. The general consensus on why they chose Roman over Dean and Seth to be the next face of the company is most likely nepotism. Roman is a member of the Anoa'i family. They're a very prolific family from the Samoan Isles who have a long history in wrestling. The general consensus is they saw all 3 members as a potential replacement for Cena but went with Roman because of his family history.
I dont believe its a nepotism thing when so many members of the Anoa'i family were performing way before Roman. I think it adds to it for sure but the biggest thing was that he had the aesthetic that Vince liked and was someone who was shown to at least be a good company man
@@roadrunneruntd True. While I'm sure his ancestry helped, the two biggest reasons why he would be pushed over Dean and Seth would definitely be his looks and that he was a homegrown talent. Unlike Ambrose and Rollins he didn't have the stigma of being an indy darling, which was a definite thing at that time. The only exceptions then were Daniel Bryan and CM Punk and have that background was definitely more of a detriment than a help. I wasn't thinking of those reasons when I wrote my initial comment. Thanks for correcting me on that.
@JohnSmith-rm1po Not really cause what you're like backstage isn't necessarily what you're like in front of the camera. There are plenty of guys that weren't liked backstage that got big pushes as faces because someone higher up liked them. For example when they tried pushing Lex Luger over Bret after Hogan left, a large number of the guys in the locker room supposedly threatened to walk out if they put the belt on him.
So the thing that isn’t mentioned is that even though Roman is booed by the men women and children still loved him which what happened to cena before, he was in Roman’s shoes but outside of the briefcase hit Roman never experienced full concentrated hatred than John Cena experienced June 11, 2006 at ECW One night stand in New York City. Any true wrestling fan knows how bad that was for one man to endure and going against a fan favorite and having home team advantage in Rob Van Dam. If out of anything you do just watch John Cena’s entrance from that event.
I have a friend whom has recently gotten into wrestling after watching it with me and another pal pretty regularly. Eventually one day he was like now that I get it. I get it. Its a fictional work of art but its the only one that takes place in our timeline, in real time. There isnt going to be a time jump, there isn't going to be a recast (well..... Usually). The people are on screen are characters but they are characters that exist in our world, they are real people. The magical thing about wrestling is we all know it is to some degree scripted, but these people beat their bodies up to entertain us. When a character grans their scripted title win, it is still a real person achieving a real goal. Wrestling promos when they are purely scripted usually suck and sound fake. The people that are good at promos aren't the people that learned how to read a script, they're the ones that can be given an overview of the point they need to get across and just speak. Without Vince we are getting back to a point where more people are allowed to do that.
Which is stupid cuz it’s literally fraud. Besides, a secret that big doesn’t stay a secret forever, and so many people would’ve lost their jobs over it, so why even bother?
You should watch the documentary video of Undertaker vs Mankind in the Hell in a Cell match. Not only is it just worth the watch, but it gives a good idea of how dangerous the job can be.
Not to spoil too much, but the next gimmick isn't quite "Undertaker" though there are a few points shared in common. But...*Smiles* It's something special.
The "Much Darker Story" is him saying at that point in time Roman left the company due to Leukima, the story could rather easily could of ended badly. Leukima being a hard fight and his mental health at the time being awful, Wolf saying "This is Not that story" Is that we live in the world where things worked out oddly brilliantly.
"My real name is Joe, and I've been living with leukemia for 11 years."
If that sentence doesn't grind your mind to a halt the first time you hear it, something wrong with your ass.
The "sadder" version of the story was what if Roman never recovered and returned. Also while this video doesn't say it Roman actually returned long before the 2020 lockdown and announced he was in remission. He just went away again at the start of the lockdown because of his weaker immune system and higher risk of infection.
At the press even for WrestleMania 40, Roman Reigns said that though he's been cancer-free for several years now, he's still taking oral chemo drugs.
The sadder story is a hypothetical one, where Reigns doesn't get recover and return and probably dies.
Raw is the name of WWE’s weekly show that airs every Monday. It’s actually the longest running weekly TV show of all time. Smackdown is the name of their Friday show.
Ah, that makes sense.
@@Airier RAW is the flagship show of WWE. ROH (Ring of Honor) is a "competing" indie-wrestling promotion. maybe you have seen that somewhere before, therefore the confusion.
@@VanezBanecompeting nah. ROH is a filtering system for WWE from the indies.
@@VanezBaneRing of Honor isn’t WWE’s rival, it’s just another wrestling company. WWE’s rival company right now is All Elite Wrestling (AEW)
@@JordanBDC they dont even consider them rivals
The sadder story, if I were to guess, is Joe never recovers, and that promo, not even the remission one Wolf missed, is the last promo Roman Reigns ever gives.
i remember that night well. no one knew, outside of a few higher ups, that roman was gonna come out there and say what he did. that's why seth and dean were legit crying because they found out at the same time as everyone else.
Wait, they didn't even know. Dude...
😮
You know, my sister watched this video before I did. And when we watched it together during the section about Roman being so hated, at one point I was like "you know, they should just make him a heel. He's already hated by everyone. That'd probably make him super interesting. At least I think so." And then my sister just gives me that look of "yes, would be interesting. What an idea. Haha." And when we got to that face at the end here I was like "OH. That's why you gave me that look."
Roman choked when he went quiet and forgot his lines. That’s what choking means in this context. Actually, in general.
It’s only used in other ways in, for example, other sports (like a team losing in a cup final) cause it works well in that context too. But choking is exactly what Roman did there, he literally choked - his brain froze and he opened his mouth but nothing comprehensible came to mind and he just went silent.
Also, the video didn't cover it, but Roman did return in 2019 to announce that he's in remission and returned as a full time wrestler. He was not really in the top title picture in 2019, instead he spent the entire year in a feud with other wrestlers. The pandemic in 2020 started to hit and Roman didn't want to show up and wanted to stay at home with his family because of his health condition.
7:36 "One bad day on the internet... It doesn't bother me.. it shouldn't bother me. it bothers me. It bothers me a lot! AND THAT ONE STILL GREEN!" (Referencing one of my favorite moment in TFS -DBZA)
“HOW THE HELL DO ALL THESE SQUARES MAKE A CIRCLE!”
11:15
Raw is the show on Mondays under the WWE
Smackdown is the show on fridays under WWE
These are treated as "Brands" so normally a guy you see on Raw will not show up on Smack Down and vice versa.
WWE also has a show called "Main Event" where the lower named stars wrestle on in "Dark Matches" matches that are taped before the main shows.
Became a member to catch this early, looking forward to your reaction to the next part.
I too, was one of those wrestling fans that grew resentful of the way WWE was pushing Roman in the beginning of his career, sadly it took his leukemia announcement for most of us to snap back to reality and realize how badly we treated him over the years
This next part of the video however proved all his haters wrong and solidified him as one of the best comeback stories of his generation ☝️
It seems to me that Wolf omitted one important thing: WWE kept pushing Roman to the moon regardless of his crowd reaction beacuse he actually was a top seller and a beloved wrestler among families, which are the most profitable audience (multiplied tickets for non-televised shows, toys, merchandise, loyalty to the product since the kids will watch whaterver happens without questioning too much from a critical standpoint). Unfortunately, tv shows crowds are usually filled by hardcore fans, who are willing to pay hundreds if not thousands of money to attend them. SO, that's where the dissonance come from (also happened with John Cena for a good chunk of his career).
Also, even Cena was still less flawed than Roman was in his "Big Dawg" persona. His moveset may have ended up weaker even than pre-heel turn Roman and of course his gimmick was all kinds of white bread, but Cena was always charismatic on the mic.
What probably happened in the John Cena/Roman Reigns segment was Roman being thrown in the deep end by WWE creative. This Cena vs Reigns match they were building to was easily the biggest of Roman’s career and they probably wanted to see how he would handle himself in the most high pressure situation. Cena is the ultimate company guy. He would never go off script, refuse to do something or go into business for himself. He must have been told to pull no punches and not to help Roman if he can’t keep up. I still have no idea how this wasn’t the end of main event Roman Reigns, but it worked out well in the end.
No. Cena's big enough to go off script, and if he was the ultimate company guy, he would have stayed with the company. Randy Orton, HHH and Seth Rollins are ultimate company guys. This was Cena burying the guy he was brought back to help. The angle was planned, but he want a lot farther than he needed to.
10 minutes in, Airier is like "he was stuck as a good guy, rather than a heel, which he might have been able to do better as.."
Me: 'Massive evil grin' Soooon..... 😈
PS: Don't worry, it isn't an Undertaker gimmick.. it is so much more 😈
Roman Reigns returned from fighting leukaemia before 2020 - but I'm fairly sure Super Eyepatch Wolf neglected to mention that because 2019 was a notoriously awful year for both Reigns and the company itself
I nearly broke my neck in 2012; i have a ruptured disc in my neck, spinal stenosis and permanent nerve damage. I was forced to quit MMA by doctors at the age of 18.
My grandfather passed away March 2017, 9 Months later in Christmas 2017 my Aunt passed away from cancer. Then Christmas Day 2021 my Grandfather passed away fron a heart attack and my uncle took his own life February 2023. Lots of death in my family, it has honestly changed how i view my own life.
Then theres this; 13 stiches in my forehead, 8 staples in my left thumb, 6 broken ribs, broken toe, broken right ankle, 2 dislocated shoulders, 10 concussions, sliced my foot on broken glass, almost cut my pinky toe off with a box cutter. And this has all happened before i turn 30.
And the crazy thing is, when all this was happening in my personal life; people still treated me like the bad guy at work. Its like i had a bit of anger from losing loved ones, i was still dealing with the effects from my concusions. I was pissed off but i did my job. I lost friends because i was real.
But the best part is, im still breathibg!
You sound really obnoxious. Bet thats why you lost those friends :)
Sorry to hear all of that, man. Hope you’re staying strong and everything.
I hope you'll be able to do the rest in one sitting , because the story of Roman from the point you left off shows incredible change ( Its cool if you dont I actually like how you format the breaks in the video it feels episodic)
by "a much sadder story" he meant a sort of alternate reality where roman reigns never came back, because of the leukemia. for one reason or....another.
Roman actually came back a couple months before quarantine happened but had to leave because of a covid scare, so that’s what he means when he says that Roman hasn’t been seen in months
Don't know if the first video mentioned this, but a big problem with Romans initial push was Vince McMahon's idea that you needed to have one single big name to be the face of the entire company, rather than build up a number of household names. Vince had done it with Hulk Hogan back in the day, then John Cena later. As brutal as Cena's words were, he wasn't wrong: when John Cena went part-time, rather than try to make a new star out of Roman, he just tried the hammer Roman into a Cena shaped hole.
Also, the table in the middle of the ring is a very common thing. In real sports like MMA or boxing the competitors have to sign a contract acknowledging where and on what date the champion in competitor will compete for the belt. They do the same thing in wrestling, just they make a big show out of it for obvious reasons, which, yes, usually ends with someone going through the table.
Cena had two advantages over roman during his darkest periods of popularity. 1: He was great on the mic, and even if the crowd hates how you are being written/booked it can give you a lot more wriggle room even with the haters. and 2: From near as I could tell he was very popular with the younger demo so a lot of his matches a chorus of younger voices going 'LETS GO CENA' and a chorus of older voices going 'CENA SUCKS' so at least it felt like someone was in his corner and he was indeed SELL THAT MERCH so even if a loud part of the demo didn't like him he was doing his job as the face of the company well enough (that job being: making money )
The thing is, Roman merch sold like hotcakes as well, even in 2015
@@berserkerciaran fair enough
The “sadder” version could be “and then he died” or that wrestling never brought him back even after he fought off the disease
I’m not afraid to admit I cried a little bit when Roman/Joe revealed his leukaemia was back. Even watching it back now I still get a little choked up. As someone with family who has gone through similar struggles with cancer, I’ll never not respect what he’s been able to accomplish. That’s a legit tough mf right there.
Throw ‘em up for the Tribal Chief. F cancer!☝️
I've never been a fan of Cena, but this to me is his absolute lowest point. They brought him back to *help* a guy who was struggling not just professionally but emotionally from being put through the wringer by WWE and the fans for *years* ...and Cena buries him worse than CM Punk did.
Like Cena's famous for burying talent, but this takes the cake. The only redeeming part of that is that he actually seems to feel bad about it now. Cena has said Roman's ability to elevate others is what he admires about him the most.
20:55 You misheard him. The sadder version of the story was the one that ended there, without what is about to follow.
I recommend checking out Wrestling With Wregret. He has a lot more wrestling videos, and they're all great and in-depth.
1:07 Alright. John Cena. The short version of John Cena was that he was presented as invincible to the point of being harmful to stories. "Here's this interesting new cha- John Cena beat them." "Well what about- Cena beat them." "Now we have a fascinating riva- Cena wins lol"
What made this especially annoying was that after they lost to Cena, Vince would give up on this interesting new character and they lost all momentum like Gohan post Cell.. A feud with Cena SHOULD have been something fans were excited for, but instead they started to dread it because it could be the end of the character not being treated like a joke. The Nexus were like a tidal wave of destruction, an invading force threatening the entire landscape of the WWE... Then after their feud with Cena, they're a bunch of losers. Bray Wyatt was a calculating cult leader, but after losing to Cena, he became a directionless nutjob. Rusev loses to Cena and goes from an unstoppable monster, to a literal cuck. Zack Ryder was an underdog fan favourite, but just by being NEAR Cena, he was turned into a comedy prop and hapless loser.
Even on the rare times Cena DID lose, those losses were invalidated and ignored. He decisively loses the world title to CM Punk twice, and yet despite NOT being the champion, he gets top billing anyway and is treated as the most important guy instead of the champion who BEAT him.
He gets annihilated by Brock Lesner, but just comes back in two weeks like nothing happened (Hell, he looked STRONGER).
He loses clean to Kevin Owens and then just beats him a month later, then again the next month as though he just reloaded his old save on the loss.
And yeah. That's the SHORT version. For the long version, I recomend Just Alyx's "John Cena: What Fans Want vs. What Corporate Wants" which was made in the middle of the Cena animosity and Wrestletalks' "10 Worst Missteps WWE Made With John Cena" which is more of a post Cena autopsy.
1:30 Oh, yeah. It's one of the most OVERUSED tropes in wrestling. The champion and challenger go to sign the contract for their fight in the middle of the ring, snipe at each other on the microphone, get into a fight. Someone goes through the table. When I say overused, I mean that horror movies use JUMPSCARES less than wrestling uses that trope.
4:02 Not scripted. But planned ahead of time. They were improvising their lines, but they were doing a "worked shoot" See, a "Shoot" is when a fight or insult is real and not part of the script. For example, Steve Austin breaking his neck mid-match was a "Shoot". He genuinely broke his neck. That was not a part of the story and very nearly ruined the entire story around his character.
Meanwhile, a work is all the fictional stuff you normally see.
So a "Worked Shoot" is where they bring something from the real life into the fictional storyline. Breaking the fourthwall to do so.
Personally, I'm not a fan. It's like Ironman telling Captain America: "Your actor is overpaid. Now I'm gonna beat you up!" You've taken the audience out of the story by directly acknowledging it's artificial, but then trying to use the artificality to build excitement for the fiction.
9:21 Yeah. You're probably spot on. And he had the bodytype Vince has a fetish for. The problem, is that Vince "Grape with a silent G my employees" McMahon could never write a compelling good guy because he didn't HAVE any sense of right and wrong. Imagine if Lex Luthor tried to create a superhero, then make Lex senile. Make him a 90's Lex written by someone who wants to make their villains as grossly evil as possible to be "edgy", make that Lex Luthor a manchild who still thinks poop is funny. Take away the slightest shred of dignity or intelligence from this Lex and make him a cartoonish parody of conservative America, then have THAT Lex write dialogue for his "superhero"... Roman was the guy who had to play that Lex's idea of what a superhero is. So... yeah, I'm sorry, but you were completely right.
14:31 There was a small, but non-zero minority when this news broke that were convinced this was a trick "Nah... nah, they can't fool me! They want to trick me into feeling sorry for him! Think that'll make me like him huh?!!"
The sadder story is one where either Joe ends up dying to his leukemia or it prevents him from returning to wrestling. He was able to win and come back until the pandemic where he had to go away again because of health concerns of course
To bring some more context of how badly the leadership of WWE (i.e. Vince Mcmahon and the many people who worked to appease Vince Mcmahon) wanted Roman to succeed in WWE, they went and got the guy public speaking and or acting lessons (I forget whether it was both or just acting lessons but he definitely got acting lessons) to help his in ring character work. Thankfully, when Roman finally did change his character up and became to villain of the weekly TV stories, he shined as now he not only had something he could use to his strength in the Tribal Chief character, he had the acting ability to truly sell the character and the performances, which made the storylines even better.
I point this out on Eyepatch wolf's video but I'll mention it again here, Roman was actually only gone for about 4 months, even when he came back though he wasn't suddenly cheered or anything, he got the 'welcome back, we're happy you're healthy again' pop but the thing is Roman still represented the coporate pushed face the crowd didn't want.
For a good eight months after his return (and before covid) Roman matches were strange because people no longer felt right booing him due to the illness but he wasn't really getting over either so a good chunk of the time his matches were fiarly flat in terms or crowd response.
When Covid hit Roman walked out as he was a 'at high risk' person for covid and didn't return until about 6 months later which was show in the video when he interuppted the Fiend/Browman match.
But yeah there is a good 8-10 month period SEW doesn't cover, maybe for time contraints or a narative reason but honestly it's one of the strangest feelins wanting to boo a guy because he's the coporate chosen but not wanting to boo him because the actual Joe has just recovered from illness, thankfully they turned him heel and honestly it was the smartest thing they ever did for him.
Sorry for the long post.
The Naruto hair guy is actually wearing a piece of WWE merch. That's Enzo Amore's hair.
The "much sadder story" would just be if that was his actual retirement. If his entire career was a giant disaster in the largest spotlight in the industry and then it ended with cancer. But this isn't that story because he came back years later and reinvented himself.
Lots of wrestling fans were in the same seat when he announced his blood cancer. A sort of shame and guilt over being unwilling to recognize that he had improved out of sheer spite.
To this day, Roman announced he has a leukemia still hurts my heart so much.
10:36 raw is a WWE promotion. Monday Night RAW, Friday Night SMACKDOWN, both WWE but difrent shows.
Roman choked against Cena by forgetting his lines. Cena does not get scripted lines. At best, Cena gets points he needs to hit. Roman is different. Roman was given scripted lines and that night, he forgot. Cena is also untouchable, so not even Vince would stop him if he got off script.
The sadder story mentioned is an alternate reality where Roman's leukemia does not go back into remission and he unfortunately would not return. Also, Roman returned after 5 months, but decided to take a break when the pandemic started because he is immuno-compromised.
So from what I gather the trash talk is scripted in the sense points are approved and they cant swear but you still go out with a large degree of freedom to say what you want. CM Punk when he did his famous pipe bomb knew he was allowed to say what he wanted about the company WWE for his brand but when he starts talking about stuff that could of fucked with the WWE money they cut him off
They used to be a lot more scripted, but now the talent is given talking points and just Ad Lib. Some do need full scripts because hey don't have those skills, though.
@JohnSmith-rm1po Otherwise known as the Era where Vince was REALLY losing his mind.
@@ChaosInfinityProductionsHard to believe he lost it harder than the "IT WAS ME, AUSTIN" days, but *apparently...* 😂
Thats on me I thought all stuff was done with "you need to say these 10 lines of dialog but you can add on to it as well" as that's how it always felt
As for your question about whether him being well like is why they pushed him as the face so hard, it's extremely unlikely. That would be a decision by both Creative and Vince McMahon, at that time, and the fact that he got along and was liked by members of the locker room wouldn't really have an effect on that. In WWE at that time the writers and wrestlers didn't interact all that much directly.
The general consensus on why they chose Roman over Dean and Seth to be the next face of the company is most likely nepotism. Roman is a member of the Anoa'i family. They're a very prolific family from the Samoan Isles who have a long history in wrestling. The general consensus is they saw all 3 members as a potential replacement for Cena but went with Roman because of his family history.
I dont believe its a nepotism thing when so many members of the Anoa'i family were performing way before Roman. I think it adds to it for sure but the biggest thing was that he had the aesthetic that Vince liked and was someone who was shown to at least be a good company man
@@roadrunneruntd True. While I'm sure his ancestry helped, the two biggest reasons why he would be pushed over Dean and Seth would definitely be his looks and that he was a homegrown talent. Unlike Ambrose and Rollins he didn't have the stigma of being an indy darling, which was a definite thing at that time. The only exceptions then were Daniel Bryan and CM Punk and have that background was definitely more of a detriment than a help. I wasn't thinking of those reasons when I wrote my initial comment. Thanks for correcting me on that.
@JohnSmith-rm1po Not really cause what you're like backstage isn't necessarily what you're like in front of the camera. There are plenty of guys that weren't liked backstage that got big pushes as faces because someone higher up liked them. For example when they tried pushing Lex Luger over Bret after Hogan left, a large number of the guys in the locker room supposedly threatened to walk out if they put the belt on him.
So the thing that isn’t mentioned is that even though Roman is booed by the men women and children still loved him which what happened to cena before, he was in Roman’s shoes but outside of the briefcase hit Roman never experienced full concentrated hatred than John Cena experienced June 11, 2006 at ECW One night stand in New York City. Any true wrestling fan knows how bad that was for one man to endure and going against a fan favorite and having home team advantage in Rob Van Dam.
If out of anything you do just watch John Cena’s entrance from that event.
I have a friend whom has recently gotten into wrestling after watching it with me and another pal pretty regularly. Eventually one day he was like now that I get it. I get it.
Its a fictional work of art but its the only one that takes place in our timeline, in real time. There isnt going to be a time jump, there isn't going to be a recast (well..... Usually). The people are on screen are characters but they are characters that exist in our world, they are real people.
The magical thing about wrestling is we all know it is to some degree scripted, but these people beat their bodies up to entertain us. When a character grans their scripted title win, it is still a real person achieving a real goal.
Wrestling promos when they are purely scripted usually suck and sound fake. The people that are good at promos aren't the people that learned how to read a script, they're the ones that can be given an overview of the point they need to get across and just speak. Without Vince we are getting back to a point where more people are allowed to do that.
"Fun" fact: there were (and still are) people who think the leukemia thing was part of a storyline (or simply faked).
Which is stupid cuz it’s literally fraud.
Besides, a secret that big doesn’t stay a secret forever, and so many people would’ve lost their jobs over it, so why even bother?
@@mangamango5569 What can you do, haters don't think logically
True, and this is exactly why Ambrose refused to cut that promo because it would’ve been super offensive, even if it happened back in the day.
16:53 we need a new server admin, this one’s shitacki mushrooms
Bro is milking this video, lol.
The next part might be the last or 2nd to last part of this series.
bro he's js milking tf out of this vid i mean almost 1 mon?
Its been around two weeksm when does the last part come out? All of the other parts came out like a week apart
Roman actually came back in early 2019 he just didn’t mention it in the video
You should watch the documentary video of Undertaker vs Mankind in the Hell in a Cell match. Not only is it just worth the watch, but it gives a good idea of how dangerous the job can be.
when's the next (hopelly final) part of the video?
Monday. Gonna upload it later today.
Lol yes, WWE Monday Night Raw and WWE Smackdown are both flagship shows owned by WWE
Id like to recommend Wrestling Isnt Wrestling by uptomyknees
This is the video that got me into wrestling. I've been a fan ever since.
Not to spoil too much, but the next gimmick isn't quite "Undertaker" though there are a few points shared in common. But...*Smiles* It's something special.
The “sadder story” is if reigns permanently retired or died of cancer, BUT that never happened ever so Y’know don’t worry about it
Sorry about your friend, dude.
Dude stop hiding criticisms of this video lol
You need to see MASK | Animal Crossing Full Movie, Beter then it has any right to be.
Can't wait for the next part!!
Just watch a video you may like makarimo reviewing your cursed Warhammer models
video noise level of the original is way to low
It's sad how much you are milking this video, you've made more videos about this 1 video, than supereyepatchwolf has made about wrestling in general.
can you please react to the helluva short hells belles please
Funny you should mention that... 😎
@@Airier cool
; D