I am always so amused at how your 10 to 12 minutes of YT time turns into a half-an-hour to an hour or more of happy referencing, searching, reading, and note taking for me! Thorough as ever, thank you so much for mentioning both the conundrum and the camel issues. Off to eSword, Logos, and rabbit-holes galore, Tally-ho!
Thank you, Carmen. Wonderful, as always. I like the suggestion that it could have meant all the animals that were outdoors at the time appointed by the Lord and not those indoors or under cover, as it prefigures the Passover in a way.
Thank you Dr. Imes for all the work that you put into this! As you said something about the animals being indoor and outdoor my mind was pondering the significance of "doors" in many decreation stories in the Bible. -Garden of Eden: animals in the garden are safe, they are not for food. outside they are chased down by nimrods - Noahs ark: in the ark behind that door (one of the few details we get about the construction of the ark)the animals are safe, outside they get decreated - passover night: the people are supposed to put their animals inside the house with the blood smeared on its doorposts so their firstborn don't get destroyed --> so this plague might be foreshadowing a tiny bit of the passover night animals being safe behind a door while God is decreating to limit human evil might be something, I don't know. I would love to see you responding to my thoughts. And again: Im so thankful for your dedication to the scriptures!
Another good one, Carmen. As you were reading your translation, I thought "Hold on. Pharaoh sends his chariots pulled by horses after the Hebrews after they leave. Where did they get the other horses?". Then you explained how that could have happened. Thanks for staying at least one step ahead of me all the time. Side note: Gen 2 tonight at home group. Will be using material from BGI.
Such a good observation, Brian! Yes, they must have quickly replenished their horses through trade . . . or brought them indoors during the hail . . . or . . . it's a mystery! Hope your home group goes well!
Pointing out deber is so good! I never realized they were signs over plagues. Dr. Heiser points to Psa. 91 as describing this term (deber), along with others, in reference to demonic entities. Could some of the judgments been demonic entities specifically?
Excellent again. Couple questions: About what time period (BCE) would this have occurred? and I've read that taxes were collected by Egyptian Pharaohs by counting cattle so would this plague also have been God's way of directly reducing the wealth of Pharaoh?
Most scholars who think the exodus is a historical event date it to the 14th or 12th century BC. I haven't come across the idea that Pharaoh collected cattle as taxes. That seems unlikely to me, given that most Egyptians didn't own cattle and were paid in grain. I would make more sense if he collected grain as tax. I'm still learning, though, and I could be wrong!
In my Norwegian Bible translation, the word pest is used instead of plague. Plague is only used of the angel of death. I also discovered Genesis 12:17 that Pharaoh and his house were afflicted because of Sarai.
Hey Carmen, I noticed something interesting in Exodus 9 while reading the KJV. It uses both 'cattle' and 'beast.' Cattle are like cows and sheep, while beasts are any kind of animals. From Exodus 9:20, It seems like maybe the servants of Pharaoh who feared the LORD still had some livestock even though verse 6 says all the livestock died. I wonder what you think about this?
@@CarmenJoyImesPhD Is it possible they could have acquired from Israelites. And Israelites could've created some wealth during the process of selling their livestock to Egyptians. Moreover, during these signs and wonders the intensity of Egyptians being hard on Israelites could've been very less because many servants of the pharaoh believed LORD
Good stuff as usual but as I'm new to the channel, I would like to know what version of the bible are you reading from? I've got 23 versions of the bible on my study program and it doesn't match any of them.
I'm translating directly from the Hebrew, so you won't find an exact match in a published English translation. I'm writing a commentary on Exodus for Baker Academic, for which translating from Hebrew is the first step. Welcome aboard!
@Carmen Joy Imes After I asked, I had a thought that's what you were doing...very impressive 😀. Thank you so much for your videos. I look forward each week to them. Cheers!
Good question! It does say "all" (kol) in v. 6. On its own, however, that word is not enough to conclude the full extent of the sign. It could be hyperbolic. For example, Genesis 41:57 says "All the world came to Egypt to buy grain from Joseph", but I don't know anyone who argues that the Incas came from South America. "All" refers to the extent of the known world and is hyperbolic. "All" in Exodus could mean "all without exception" (=every animal) or "all without distinction" (=every kind of animal).
@@CarmenJoyImesPhD thank you so much for your reply. I agree that we cannot conclude the full context. Just trying to hang on to faith and it's not always easy!
@@SeekingHisWill77 sometimes people lose faith because they start with assumptions about what the Bible is claiming and then can't square that with reality. I'm always trying to help people read the Bible for what it's trying to affirm, stripping away our assumptions that are misplaced. Blessings to you!
@@CarmenJoyImesPhD subbing now:) I try hard to avoid assuming anything, and even though all these searches in scriptures, I am grateful for all His direction for study.
Concerning the reference to "all", I know you must have combed many commentators for their explanations. But for me they all, except hyperbole, seem very unlikely. The one thought I had was whether the Hebrew word of "all" can function like the Greek word for all πᾶς. This word in Greek can carry the sense of "every kind of". Could the Hebrew just be communicating that every kind of animal -- not every animal -- died?
What a fascinating proposal! It does seem to me like hyperbole must be a factor in these narratives, since there is so much overlap in the affect of the signs, not just on animals, but also on vegetation. I'll have to think about whether kol can mean "every kind of"! Thank you, Bob.
I lean towards hyperbole for the reason you gave in chapter 8 with the words the land is "ruined"... int heir minds, yes, it was... but it's only going to get worse.
I am always so amused at how your 10 to 12 minutes of YT time turns into a half-an-hour to an hour or more of happy referencing, searching, reading, and note taking for me! Thorough as ever, thank you so much for mentioning both the conundrum and the camel issues. Off to eSword, Logos, and rabbit-holes galore, Tally-ho!
How delightful! I'm so glad that these videos inspire you to dig deeper. Feel free to circle back to comment with new insights you find!
Thank you,Dr Imes🌹🌹🌹🌹
Of course, Brenda!
Love this and love u
Aw, thanks, Diane!
Thank you, Carmen. Wonderful, as always. I like the suggestion that it could have meant all the animals that were outdoors at the time appointed by the Lord and not those indoors or under cover, as it prefigures the Passover in a way.
Yes, it does! Good point.
Thank you Dr. Imes for all the work that you put into this!
As you said something about the animals being indoor and outdoor my mind was pondering the significance of "doors" in many decreation stories in the Bible.
-Garden of Eden: animals in the garden are safe, they are not for food. outside they are chased down by nimrods
- Noahs ark: in the ark behind that door (one of the few details we get about the construction of the ark)the animals are safe, outside they get decreated
- passover night: the people are supposed to put their animals inside the house with the blood smeared on its doorposts so their firstborn don't get destroyed --> so this plague might be foreshadowing a tiny bit of the passover night
animals being safe behind a door while God is decreating to limit human evil might be something, I don't know.
I would love to see you responding to my thoughts. And again: Im so thankful for your dedication to the scriptures!
Fascinating observation! I like this.
Another good one, Carmen. As you were reading your translation, I thought "Hold on. Pharaoh sends his chariots pulled by horses after the Hebrews after they leave. Where did they get the other horses?". Then you explained how that could have happened. Thanks for staying at least one step ahead of me all the time. Side note: Gen 2 tonight at home group. Will be using material from BGI.
Such a good observation, Brian! Yes, they must have quickly replenished their horses through trade . . . or brought them indoors during the hail . . . or . . . it's a mystery!
Hope your home group goes well!
Pointing out deber is so good! I never realized they were signs over plagues. Dr. Heiser points to Psa. 91 as describing this term (deber), along with others, in reference to demonic entities. Could some of the judgments been demonic entities specifically?
Hmmm... that's a new idea to me. I would have to see Heiser's argument to see if this seems workable to me.
Excellent again. Couple questions: About what time period (BCE) would this have occurred? and I've read that taxes were collected by Egyptian Pharaohs by counting cattle so would this plague also have been God's way of directly reducing the wealth of Pharaoh?
Most scholars who think the exodus is a historical event date it to the 14th or 12th century BC. I haven't come across the idea that Pharaoh collected cattle as taxes. That seems unlikely to me, given that most Egyptians didn't own cattle and were paid in grain. I would make more sense if he collected grain as tax. I'm still learning, though, and I could be wrong!
In my Norwegian Bible translation, the word pest is used instead of plague. Plague is only used of the angel of death. I also discovered Genesis 12:17 that Pharaoh and his house were afflicted because of Sarai.
Interesting translation choice!
Yes, the "plague" in Gen. 12:17 is the same word as the death of the firstborn in Exod. 11:1. So intriguing!
Hey Carmen,
I noticed something interesting in Exodus 9 while reading the KJV. It uses both 'cattle' and 'beast.' Cattle are like cows and sheep, while beasts are any kind of animals.
From Exodus 9:20, It seems like maybe the servants of Pharaoh who feared the LORD still had some livestock even though verse 6 says all the livestock died.
I wonder what you think about this?
"All" could be hyperbole. Or perhaps they quickly re-acquired animals after the death of the ones that died.
@@CarmenJoyImesPhD Is it possible they could have acquired from Israelites. And Israelites could've created some wealth during the process of selling their livestock to Egyptians. Moreover, during these signs and wonders the intensity of Egyptians being hard on Israelites could've been very less because many servants of the pharaoh believed LORD
I read somewhere that Egyptians saw sheep/goats as gods. I'm not sure if that was relegated to one of the kingdom eras
They do have a few sheep/ram gods (Banaebdjedet, Heryshef, Kherty, and Khnum), but apparently did not see the average sheep as sacred as a result.
Good stuff as usual but as I'm new to the channel, I would like to know what version of the bible are you reading from? I've got 23 versions of the bible on my study program and it doesn't match any of them.
I'm translating directly from the Hebrew, so you won't find an exact match in a published English translation. I'm writing a commentary on Exodus for Baker Academic, for which translating from Hebrew is the first step.
Welcome aboard!
@Carmen Joy Imes After I asked, I had a thought that's what you were doing...very impressive 😀. Thank you so much for your videos. I look forward each week to them. Cheers!
Was Deber deity in the Egypt culture as well as Cannan? Is this part of what Moses was fighting as well?
I'm not aware of a deity named Deber in either culture. Can you say more about what you mean?
@@CarmenJoyImesPhD There is a DDD entry on Deber, do you have that resource?
Page 231 entry for "Deber" in the Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible in logos, not sure about the physical copy
@@storyofscripture it's not on my shelf, but I'll put it on my library list to check out! Thank you.
@@CarmenJoyImesPhD Its an expensive book, borrow at the library, Dr. Heiser recommended bible nerd people own it
does the original text of the Torah say "all" the livestock of Egypt died or just livestock, without the word "all"? What is the word used for "all"?
Good question! It does say "all" (kol) in v. 6.
On its own, however, that word is not enough to conclude the full extent of the sign. It could be hyperbolic. For example, Genesis 41:57 says "All the world came to Egypt to buy grain from Joseph", but I don't know anyone who argues that the Incas came from South America. "All" refers to the extent of the known world and is hyperbolic.
"All" in Exodus could mean "all without exception" (=every animal) or "all without distinction" (=every kind of animal).
@@CarmenJoyImesPhD thank you so much for your reply. I agree that we cannot conclude the full context. Just trying to hang on to faith and it's not always easy!
@@SeekingHisWill77 sometimes people lose faith because they start with assumptions about what the Bible is claiming and then can't square that with reality. I'm always trying to help people read the Bible for what it's trying to affirm, stripping away our assumptions that are misplaced.
Blessings to you!
@@CarmenJoyImesPhD subbing now:) I try hard to avoid assuming anything, and even though all these searches in scriptures, I am grateful for all His direction for study.
Concerning the reference to "all", I know you must have combed many commentators for their explanations. But for me they all, except hyperbole, seem very unlikely. The one thought I had was whether the Hebrew word of "all" can function like the Greek word for all πᾶς. This word in Greek can carry the sense of "every kind of". Could the Hebrew just be communicating that every kind of animal -- not every animal -- died?
What a fascinating proposal! It does seem to me like hyperbole must be a factor in these narratives, since there is so much overlap in the affect of the signs, not just on animals, but also on vegetation. I'll have to think about whether kol can mean "every kind of"! Thank you, Bob.
I lean towards hyperbole for the reason you gave in chapter 8 with the words the land is "ruined"... int heir minds, yes, it was... but it's only going to get worse.
Thanks for weighing in!
It's taco Tuesday here, I'm not Jewish.
No reason why you can't eat Tacos and read the Torah! (I'm not Jewish either).