Kubica had 4 and a half seasons before his accident and although he was great and would’ve gone on to become a champion, Norris has had longer and before this season, albeit less than Robert did, he has impressed
@cebulakzachodni3426 this list is ranking F1 drivers and their time in the sport as I mentioned during the video multiple times. Otherwise jacky Ickx and Mario Andretti would shoot up the rankings. Robert simply didn’t have long enough in the era to prove what more he could dl
Michael Schumacher is the guy who got more fans to F1. Fairly not putting you wrong Michael Schumacher was the first and only guy who was the first F1 driver who was the first billionaire sportsperson considered all the sports in the world like golf, boking, UFC whatever it is . Michael made it clear that F1 is the way unlike other sportsperson
I listened to the full video, never do I do that for so long. You did an awesome job not only with this challenge, also your excellent pronounciation of the drivers, but also effortlessly digging up the careers of a Luigi Musso versus a Johnny Herbert, as if they were racing just yesterday. Even Peter Windsor would have had trouble remembering the old guys. I agree with your number 1, but would put Senna and Max just behind. Racing is not only results, it is also the wow factor and those 2 must complete the top3 for that.
If I'm being honest with you, I think his 2nd, 3rd and 4th should be his top 3 drivers with Hamilton also sort of in that conversation. Senna and Clark probably make the top 10 somewhere though. Stewart and Lauda also had great careers and achieved unbelievable accomplishments.
@Torero2901 yea but it doesn’t make you instantly the best driver if you occasionally do wow moments, I’d much rather have lots of less fantastic moments that are still great so that the truly brilliant ones don’t need to stand out
Great video! Here is my ranking, I have 5 factors, 1) at least 2x wdc, excluded greats like Moss and Button 2) career MVP years. I did best 2 drivers every year and the result was Msc Alo Sen Fan Cla Ver Ham Pro Lau Ste Asc 3) adjusted Elo from Mr.V's garage, Alo Ver Fan Asc Cla Sen Pro Fit Vet Msc 4) gap between the driver vs. 2nd best driver in his generation, Sen Msc Fan Cla Ste Lau Ver Pro Alo Fit 5) absolute speed updated from AWS, Sen Msc Ver Ham Alo. Final Ranking is Sen Fan Alo Msc Cla Ver Pro Ste Asc Lau Ham Fit Vet
@nedzosf1gridbox best example is 89. The 2 races Senna crashed, he was well ahead of Prost, so points scored really don’t capture their difference in speed. It seems the Ergast Motor Racing Data does not go back for 80s, but if anyone has their 90% average lap times per race, or their average race finishing time difference, you will know what I mean even if you don’t have the time to watch race by race. Prost scored many second places but finsihed half a minute behind. I think speed is much more fundamental than points, imagine if you had 10 cloned Sennas and 10 Prosts in the same car racing for 100 years, the WDC result won’t be 1:1 like 88 and 89, it will be more like 100:0 to Senna due to the fundamental speed difference. Amazon (AWS Insight) had a fastest F1 driver rank and Senna is first even including today's drivers while Prost was the only other driver from 80s in the top 20 about 0.5 second behind. Quote from a twitter poster: ”Senna was hit by a Berger at the start in Brazil, putting him in 11th at the flag; had a mechanical failure while leading in Phoenix, giving the win to Prost; engine failure in Canada with just 3 laps left; broken differential before even starting in France; jammed gearbox while leading Silverstone, that put him off; engine failure at Monza while leading with just 9 laps left, handing the win to Prost; crashed out by a black flagged Mansell in Estoril; DSQ’d from the win in Suzuka.” Other than these races, Senna never lost to Prost. Alonso cant do that to Hamilton nor can Fangio do that to Ascari.
@nedzosf1gridbox care to elaborate why u say so? I have 88 89 each race's quali data and it is close to 0.5 gap b.w prost and senna. What do u think their gap is?
Nedzo been a while! I’ll have to get more in depth with the video when I have a chance, very cool upload btw. Two notes though in the meantime: as you know I rank Vettel much higher and is Heiki really that low? Although I suppose it is still top 100 which is impressive
Where would you rank Seb? He is my fav driver of all time but I'm not sure if I could put him in the Top 10 due to his latter years. If he retired after like 2017 then I think he would easily be in the Top 10 though.
@@nedzosf1gridbox I'd say he fell off after 2017. If you rewatch the 2017 season or just skim through some highlights, Seb was arguably the best driver that year. His failed 2018 title challenge was more on him than Ferrari but 2017 was almost entirely Ferrari letting him down.
@@craigshilo4137 to add, it obviously wasn’t his best years but he certainly had an overperforming stint at Aston Martin. Also don’t forget how good he was in 2015
"Schumacher should have won 1998" - Dude have you watched that season with your TV turned off? Compared to the McLaren, the 98 Ferrari was a gherkin on wheels. The fact that Schumacher even managed to keep it close until the very last race was basically a miracle. Similarly, over the course of the 2006 season, the Renault was consistently faster, especially in the first half (and more) of the season. That plus unreliability ended that title fight. Schumacher never lost a title that was realistically achievable in the car he was driving.
I've always had Jim Clark as my GOAT and today I finally found someone else who agrees with me lmao. Great list! Can you elaborate on what Maldonado is doing so high up the rankings? That's my burning question
I implore you to watch my video on him: th-cam.com/video/CPJwCFx94tg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=55nXDRyuu7dF1YKZ This details the reasons why. Essentially he’s overhated and never truly got a chance to prove himself
Btw I would put Vettel and Raikkonen above Hamilton, Alonso and Max Verstappen because I based on Prime Domination means I based it on how good a driver is on their prime and how dominant they are on their prime. Example: Michael Shumacher for me is the GOAT because not only because he brings Ferrari in winning championships but his prime in 2002 and 2004 where amazing but not only that he was so dominant in those years 2002 he finished on the podium every race and then 2004 he won the first 12 out of the 13 races. You see prime dominance. That is why I ranked Vettel so high not only in 2011 and 2013 his prime those years was on the roof but the way he dominated 2011 and 2013 years where just unbelievable.
Using primes as a judgement almost always leads to subjectivity skewing the results e.g. why would Raikkonen's prime be above any Max when he literally has the most dominant season in the sports history?
A bit tiring but I enjoyed it, good top 100 here; although I must say Jean-Pierre Jarier was a very good driver and you could've included him, definitely one of the best to never win a race
I would put Hamilton around Vettels level, because Hamilton got lucky having the best car of his generation to win so many Championships ever. Verstappen on other hand is considered one of the best drivers ever to race in F1, so he should be above Hamilton. I dont understand how you consider somebody as less significant and known as Clark the best F1 driver of all time. The disrespect Räikkönen is also unreal, when his around Alonso’s level, when his just got unlucky with the car, when he could have won more Championships. Everybody also knew Senna was better, than Prost, so how is he behind Prost then, when Senna was the one who had balls at making epic overtakes compared to Prost that is just used to driving alone in the lead of the race. Bottas also aint worse, than Perez, when his shown that his much better teamate to Hamilton, than Perez was for Verstappen. Leclerc also I belive is bit better, when he just hasent had the opportunity to win a Championship yet with his poor Ferrari car, while he is top tier talent in F1.
You sound very arrogant assuming anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Räikkönen after 2013 was average at best and longevity counts. Senna was not better than Prost just because he had more balls, the reason Prost won so much from the front is because he was better. He outscored senna as teammates both years at McLaren and would’ve challenged in 1990 if not for Suzuka. The only reason people nowadays think senna is better is because of the glazing F1 themselves do for no apparent reason. If you went into this with an open mind rather than assuming everyone who disagrees with you is instantly wrong you’d learn something
@@nedzosf1gridbox I didnt say anybody who disagree with me is instantly wrong. Thats your own arrogant assumption you just made yourself. Prost only won one more Championship, than Senna did. Still Senna was the crowd favorite for being able to overtake so many cars and Prost wasent the crowd favorite, when he wasent as good at that. I think Prost is one of the greatest drivers to drive in F1, but I would put Senna just little bit above Prost.
@@Jout8-re1ij crowd favourites don’t mean shit. Schumacher was hated yet was the best while Damon Hill, Lando Norris and co were loved despite not being worthy champions. Also you said “everyone knows senna is better than Prost”. Sounds very much like saying disagreeing with you is wrong
I will be honest judging these f1 drivers are subjective. You can ranked them in their overall career like you did. You can ranked them based on success career like Hamilton and Vettel. You can judge them nased on prime. And you can judge them based on how they can adapt in a very poor f1 car like Fernando Alonso who is top 5 best f1 drivers of all time if I ranked him based on that. It is really subjective.
Lol, pretty damn good stuff again. Vettel I believe should move up, I think Bottas > Perez, Fangio and Schumacher top 2 for me, G. Hill down, Piquet down, Stewart up, Webber up and Norris and Russell change positions. Then again I'm likely to do this myself at some point during the holiday. 😂🤣
Perez' ranking is Absolutely DIABOLICAL mate! Bottas has nearly DOUBLE the amount of podiums, and nearly double the wins too! The only good things anyone seems to have to say of Perez are "he defended against Hamilton in '21" and "he won Sakhir in a ForceIndia!" I have never seen someone get as many chances in this sport as Perez has.
Bottas spent six or seven seasons in podium capable machinery, Perez only had four, so DOUBLE the podiums and wins means absolutely nothing, adjusted for time spent in those cars they’re actually fairly equal. Perez in sauber in 2012 was fantastic, the same in Force India in 2016 and 18, and Racing point in 2020. The reason why people only talk about the things you mention above is because they haven’t watched the sport long enough to know his entire career. I didn’t want recency bias to affect this list because I don’t want to jump on the bandwagon of Perez hate and forget about the first decade of his career
@@nedzosf1gridbox I agree, but Bottas in that williams stint was more or less equal to perez' entire career pre-race winning machinery. I do believe his performances in the last 3-4 seasons (2021 wasn't a good year for him, especially if you consider the fact that his performances can almost directly be compared to bottas') should be used to bring him down. Also Russell didn't beat Hamilton in 2023, LH basically whitewashed GR last season and almost got 2nd place over a very poor Perez
@@nedzosf1gridbox I agree George was very unlucky in some races, doesn't change the fact that Lewis 1) beat him and 2) performed better over the course of the season.
This is a long video lol, I'll have to give it a listen when I'm let's say practicing some matchups on a video game like Tekken 8 honing my competitive skills to try and go beyond my Tekken King rank future online. Then leave my thoughts at the end. It's an ambitious tier list to make, be interesting to see where you place them, 22 minutes in Hamilton the only man in the top 10, I don't think anyone can realistically disagree with that. I think Berger winning a title if he'd driven in the Schumacher era I may disagree with. I can't see him winning in a Ferrari alongside Schumacher at least, but maybe in a Williams while they had the dominance and lacked that superstar driver. Those are my thoughts so far, I agree Berger had some misfortune to be around such an S tier list of drivers in the era he drove in.
First of: Great video, you clearly have crazy knowledge of F1. But I can't fathom putting Fangio over people like Hamilton or Verstappen. I know he was very dominant in his day, but F1 was infinitely less professional and competive than the later decades. He was very talented, sure, and it's hard to compare eras this far apart, but I don't think he would be anything special if you transported him to any decade past the 80s (when F1 really attracted global prestige and dedicated talent). Yes, his high finishing rate may come partially down to him managing his car, but let's not pretend finishing a race back then wasn't much more down to luck than today. Clark is a similar story, though not as egregious to me. Ofc just my opinion, not meant as disrespect.
I have to disagree. F1 was just as professional. It was less competitive in terms of field spread but the guys at the top were just as good as today. The worst era for field spread and competition was the mid 1990s (see Jean-Denis Deletraz, Giovanni Lavaggi, Taki Inoue and others). If you put Hamilton or Verstappen in a 1950s car and they tried to compete in a race from the time they would crash and die. The truth is that although the eras were different, it’s easy to hold drivers to the same standards as now because you look at the guys at the top and compare them. Also, Fangio literally sits in the top ten drivers of all time in terms of finishing percentages, he reached the end of 86% of races he started. There are no drivers from the 1950s who have a similar amount of starts as him with that high a finishing rate. Giuseppe Farina has 79% and Ascari has 71% from half to two thirds of the races which should work in their favour but it doesn’t. Fangio was a master of nursing unreliable cars to the end, he had a higher finishing percentage than Sebastian Vettel
@nedzosf1gridbox well, we're just going to have to disagree. Much less consistency needed in the 50s and 60s to compete at the front. Put Fangio in a 2024 F1 car, how is he going to cope with 6G cornering, 1000hp and actual wheel to wheel racing? How many racers in the 1950s went through junior formulas forming their talent and proving they deserve their seats? How many teams back then were a few blokes in a small garage doing it as a hobby? Way less consistency/talent to compete at the front IMO. Agree to disagree I guess.
@ruserification742 I think this is an interesting conversation because your first point about fitness is fair. Drivers didn’t always go through junior formulas, some did but often the ones who went on to be champions in the 1950s and early 60s established themselves either before the war (WW2) in Grand Prix racing or did club racing. For example Fangio won Turismo Carretera (modern day Argentine touring cars) in the early 1940s and then moved to European competition in the latter half of the decade. Farina was established before the war, Ascari more so from 1946-50, Mike Hawthorn started on bikes and did Formula Two. Junior series existed back then but there were so many regional ones and essentially F1, endurance racing and other events saw drivers switch readily between them so there wasn’t one concrete path to the top. There weren’t many privateer teams especially during the 50s, the likes of Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Mercedes, Talbot-Lago, Gordini, BRM, HWM, Cooper, Alta and co all had varying amounts of engineers with the big names having more. Only during the mid to late 1960s did drivers essentially make a one-man band approach and do it all themselves. Glad I could answer your questions and I hope some misconceptions have been clarified
Nearly a year ago I detailed an in depth look into my top 10, albeit now the order has changed somewhat the principles are still there. It was a very long video lol Here’s the link: th-cam.com/video/QUPh6NwpZes/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xH8_TYSyHaHyliCa
@@nedzosf1gridbox I'm just starting.. my father was a fan when he was a kid and he saw what he calls the best part of the F1, with Senna, Prost, Lauda, Piquet, etc. Then when he got older, our country (Argentina) didn't have any pilots in the category, so the sport became less popular, but as you know, Colapinto just landed in F1 and the whole country is supporting him. Now we both see his races together
@marcosmonte307 Argentina is a very underrated nation in F1 terms because before Colapinto your last good driver who had success was Reutemann. I’m actually planning on starting a channel in Spanish very soon and likely Argentina and its drivers will turn up regularly
Could elaborate further on why Senna/Prost finish where they did. Interesting that you would put Prost above Lauda (due to being a 'better' version of him), but not Senna. Imo they're inseparable beyond opinion. Both maximised the machinery they were given, which was the pre-requisite as to why Lauda>anyone below him. Why is Lewis not ranked higher as well? Sure, he 'only' wins when everything is going right (2007,2010,2012,2018, and 2021 would disagree) but why would that be considered against him? Also why isn't Max ranked higher especially after this season? He's accomplished nothing less than what Senna has across his career.
@@mauriceabdalla7397 Prost was Lauda’s risk management style of driving on steroids. Sacrificed qualifying for race pace, and with more reliable machinery, and a normal points system, without Suzuka 1990 too would’ve been a seven time champion. Could’ve had three titles for Renault but reliability fucked him, and at McLaren only lost to Lauda on merit by one point. The only reason he lost to senna in 88 was the dropped scores taking away nearly two race wins worth of points, and even without Suzuka 89 would’ve won the title because Ayrton retired in Adelaide. We’ll never know how 1990 Japan would’ve panned out but he would’ve had a chance. The only thing senna had over him was banzai qualifying laps, but Prost had ruthless consistency in an era of bad reliability. Lewis isn’t ranked higher because if you look at how the rest of these top guys (Senna, Prost, Fangio etc), none of them lost on merit to a teammate who wasn’t also top 10 material ever, apart from Lauda to John Watson in 1982 and 83. No one else lost to a non-top ten driver apart from Lewis, who has lost to three of them, Button, Rosberg and Russell, all of whom are great drivers but should not have beaten a so called GOAT across a season, especially as easily as Jenson did in 2011. Even at their worst the likes of Schumacher, Prost, senna and co never lost to non-iconic teammates. For me, while his prime is amongst the best, I can’t ignore the fact that Lewis cannot do anything special in the non-fastest car in any given season (he was getting outperformed by kovalainen in the first half of 2009) and every other time he’s been error prone and worse than the likes of button or Russell. Put it this way, Schumacher never lost to Barrichello or Massa, senna and Prost never lost to the likes of Gerhard Berger or their other less successful teammates. As for Verstappen, I don’t want to succumb to recency bias. Verstappen now is in a very similar position to what Sebastian Vettel was in 2013, coming off the back of four successive titles and unprecedented dominance. Even though he has the same or better numbers than Prost or senna, you have no qualms with him being outside the top ten. That’s why I can’t put max there yet. I don’t want him to do a Seb and never seriously compete for a title again and then drop down the pack. It’s easier to rank drivers whose careers have finished for this reason. If max goes on to win for another four years, absolutely he’ll overtake those in front of him but I can’t right now for the reasons I’ve just detailed
@@nedzosf1gridbox Interesting read, hard to disagree with your analysis on Prost as I do believe his raw talent and ruthless metronomic way of always doing *just* enough to win should place him higher in the public's pov. However, the arguments on if they used the modern points system he would've won more, doesn't hold merit in my books. The rule book didn't change randomly at any stage during any season he was racing (looking at you AD '21) so it shouldn't matter. As for Hamilton, I agree he should never have been beaten by those teammates, maybe bar Rosberg in '16 as he somehow elevated himself to become a worthy world champion, something the likes of Barrichelo could never dream of (2009 was his only real opportunity and he never grabbed it). Only discourse I would have is your angle of why he isn't better than those ahead of him. LH is my favourite driver ever and I understand he isn't anywhere near perfect. Without the team's backing, a capable car, and a motivated mindset, he just always seems to struggle, which those you ranked ahead of him never lacked. I just think it's a shame that the way you looked at things means he is inevitably never going to move forward and is probably going to be viewed as 'worse' than Verstappen, even if he ends up winning the next 3 championships in a 2023 dominant style. Anyways, appreciate the opinion and glad to be educated.
@ if Lewis won the next three championships in dominant fashion he’d move ahead of senna but no higher because everyone in front of him took every opportunity they had. The best drivers truly outperform the expectations of every car they drive, and Lewis can’t do that. I appreciate you explaining you’re a fan of his, although I do believe that shouldn’t alter your opinions, I’m a neutral so I don’t have this problem
@@nedzosf1gridbox what would change between Lewis & Senna beyond him becoming a 10 time world champion? Sure, he’d be more *dominant* but that surely doesn’t justify being better than someone who took (nearly) every opportunity he got? Also was your reasoning on why Prost>Senna also applicable to why Lauda>Senna? And where do you see Max finishing his career, assuming he ends up on potentially 6 or 7 world championships, and would the narrative of how he won those championships change anything (i.e. if he had another season like this one) (Bonus Q - do you see anyone on the current grid breaking into the top 10)
@mauriceabdalla7397 the thing is senna like Lewis didn’t take every chance. And while I don’t think highly as much of only being good in dominant cars, doing so nine times out of eleven is more impressive than senna’s record. As to the senna Lauda point you’re correct
@@nedzosf1gridbox Why you then put Hamilton as so much better driver compared to Rosberg in your rankings, if Rosberg was able to beat Hamilton with equal machinery still. Verstappen is also better, than Hamilton, when he is considered one of the best drivers ever to race in F1 by many, while Hamilton has just got lucky with the best car on the grid to win so many Championships with it.
Rosberg beat Hamilton one season out of 3. If we go by your metric Daniel Ricciardo is a better driver than Max. Lewis isn’t the best but you have to be good to win in the best car, just look at Norris this season
@@nedzosf1gridbox How is Bottas worse, than Perez also, when Bottas was much better teamate for Hamilton, than Perez was for Verstappen. I belive Hamilton is around Vettels level of F1 driver. Just, because you win the Championship many times dosent mean you are the best driver ever, when sometimes you get easily the best car on the grid with not as hard competition. That was also the case with Keke Rosberg, so its kind of funny how you put him above Nico Rosberg, while Keke only got one race win in that year. The disrespect on Räikkönen is also unreal, when his around Alonsos level driver, when he could have won more Championships, if he wasent unlucky with the Mclaren that was given to him. Senna is also better, than Prost, when Senna had the balls to make epic overtakes, while Prost is used to driving alone in the lead of the race and I dont understand how you pick somebody as random as Clark as the best F1 driver of all time. Leclerc also propably should be rated bit higher, when his just been unlucky with his Ferrari car reliaibility issues, while he does have a lot of pace.
norris above kubica, WOW
what is wrong with u
Kubica had 4 and a half seasons before his accident and although he was great and would’ve gone on to become a champion, Norris has had longer and before this season, albeit less than Robert did, he has impressed
Even if that is his opinion, Robert Kubica still can drive in WEC and winning even with that arm which could be amputated. And doesn't bottle a start.
@cebulakzachodni3426 this list is ranking F1 drivers and their time in the sport as I mentioned during the video multiple times. Otherwise jacky Ickx and Mario Andretti would shoot up the rankings. Robert simply didn’t have long enough in the era to prove what more he could dl
Barrichello is super underated here in Brazil because we needed (still need) another Senna, but god damn his consistency is legendary.
He was consistent but as I said didn’t have the minerals to be a champ
Consistently 4th
Michael Schumacher is the guy who got more fans to F1. Fairly not putting you wrong Michael Schumacher was the first and only guy who was the first F1 driver who was the first billionaire sportsperson considered all the sports in the world like golf, boking, UFC whatever it is . Michael made it clear that F1 is the way unlike other sportsperson
I listened to the full video, never do I do that for so long.
You did an awesome job not only with this challenge, also your excellent pronounciation of the drivers, but also effortlessly digging up the careers of a Luigi Musso versus a Johnny Herbert, as if they were racing just yesterday. Even Peter Windsor would have had trouble remembering the old guys.
I agree with your number 1, but would put Senna and Max just behind. Racing is not only results, it is also the wow factor and those 2 must complete the top3 for that.
If I'm being honest with you, I think his 2nd, 3rd and 4th should be his top 3 drivers with Hamilton also sort of in that conversation. Senna and Clark probably make the top 10 somewhere though. Stewart and Lauda also had great careers and achieved unbelievable accomplishments.
I think the “wow” factor is overrated. That usually means over exuberance where it’s unnecessary
@@nedzosf1gridbox "the wow factor is overrated"??
It is literally the whole REASON people watch sports... 👋
@Torero2901 yea but it doesn’t make you instantly the best driver if you occasionally do wow moments, I’d much rather have lots of less fantastic moments that are still great so that the truly brilliant ones don’t need to stand out
Great video!
Here is my ranking, I have 5 factors, 1) at least 2x wdc, excluded greats like Moss and Button
2) career MVP years. I did best 2 drivers every year and the result was Msc Alo Sen Fan Cla Ver Ham Pro Lau Ste Asc
3) adjusted Elo from Mr.V's garage, Alo Ver Fan Asc Cla Sen Pro Fit Vet Msc
4) gap between the driver vs. 2nd best driver in his generation, Sen Msc Fan Cla Ste Lau Ver Pro Alo Fit
5) absolute speed updated from AWS, Sen Msc Ver Ham Alo.
Final Ranking is Sen Fan Alo Msc Cla Ver Pro Ste Asc Lau Ham Fit Vet
Senna was never that fast over a race distance, or overly so in qualifying over Prost. I don’t know where this notion comes from
@nedzosf1gridbox best example is 89. The 2 races Senna crashed, he was well ahead of Prost, so points scored really don’t capture their difference in speed. It seems the Ergast Motor Racing Data does not go back for 80s, but if anyone has their 90% average lap times per race, or their average race finishing time difference, you will know what I mean even if you don’t have the time to watch race by race. Prost scored many second places but finsihed half a minute behind.
I think speed is much more fundamental than points, imagine if you had 10 cloned Sennas and 10 Prosts in the same car racing for 100 years, the WDC result won’t be 1:1 like 88 and 89, it will be more like 100:0 to Senna due to the fundamental speed difference. Amazon (AWS Insight) had a fastest F1 driver rank and Senna is first even including today's drivers while Prost was the only other driver from 80s in the top 20 about 0.5 second behind.
Quote from a twitter poster: ”Senna was hit by a Berger at the start in Brazil, putting him in 11th at the flag; had a mechanical failure while leading in Phoenix, giving the win to Prost; engine failure in Canada with just 3 laps left; broken differential before even starting in France; jammed gearbox while leading Silverstone, that put him off; engine failure at Monza while leading with just 9 laps left, handing the win to Prost; crashed out by a black flagged Mansell in Estoril; DSQ’d from the win in Suzuka.” Other than these races, Senna never lost to Prost. Alonso cant do that to Hamilton nor can Fangio do that to Ascari.
@@Hmhm_racer using AWS to prove your points does the opposite
@nedzosf1gridbox care to elaborate why u say so? I have 88 89 each race's quali data and it is close to 0.5 gap b.w prost and senna. What do u think their gap is?
@Hmhm_racer AWS also said Heikki Kovalainen and Jarno Trulli were in the top ten drivers of all time
Nedzo been a while! I’ll have to get more in depth with the video when I have a chance, very cool upload btw. Two notes though in the meantime: as you know I rank Vettel much higher and is Heiki really that low? Although I suppose it is still top 100 which is impressive
Vettel fell off hard after 2013
Where would you rank Seb? He is my fav driver of all time but I'm not sure if I could put him in the Top 10 due to his latter years. If he retired after like 2017 then I think he would easily be in the Top 10 though.
@@nedzosf1gridbox I'd say he fell off after 2017. If you rewatch the 2017 season or just skim through some highlights, Seb was arguably the best driver that year. His failed 2018 title challenge was more on him than Ferrari but 2017 was almost entirely Ferrari letting him down.
@@craigshilo4137 Seb is hovering between 11-15th for me
@@craigshilo4137 to add, it obviously wasn’t his best years but he certainly had an overperforming stint at Aston Martin. Also don’t forget how good he was in 2015
"Schumacher should have won 1998" - Dude have you watched that season with your TV turned off? Compared to the McLaren, the 98 Ferrari was a gherkin on wheels. The fact that Schumacher even managed to keep it close until the very last race was basically a miracle. Similarly, over the course of the 2006 season, the Renault was consistently faster, especially in the first half (and more) of the season. That plus unreliability ended that title fight. Schumacher never lost a title that was realistically achievable in the car he was driving.
I never watched 1998 in depth, only the classics like Spa and Japan so I’ll give you that, and it’s similar for 2006. Thanks for enlightening me
I've always had Jim Clark as my GOAT and today I finally found someone else who agrees with me lmao. Great list!
Can you elaborate on what Maldonado is doing so high up the rankings? That's my burning question
I implore you to watch my video on him:
th-cam.com/video/CPJwCFx94tg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=55nXDRyuu7dF1YKZ
This details the reasons why. Essentially he’s overhated and never truly got a chance to prove himself
Btw I would put Vettel and Raikkonen above Hamilton, Alonso and Max Verstappen because I based on Prime Domination means I based it on how good a driver is on their prime and how dominant they are on their prime. Example: Michael Shumacher for me is the GOAT because not only because he brings Ferrari in winning championships but his prime in 2002 and 2004 where amazing but not only that he was so dominant in those years 2002 he finished on the podium every race and then 2004 he won the first 12 out of the 13 races. You see prime dominance. That is why I ranked Vettel so high not only in 2011 and 2013 his prime those years was on the roof but the way he dominated 2011 and 2013 years where just unbelievable.
I don’t just use primes hence the different ranking for me and you
Using primes as a judgement almost always leads to subjectivity skewing the results e.g. why would Raikkonen's prime be above any Max when he literally has the most dominant season in the sports history?
A bit tiring but I enjoyed it, good top 100 here; although I must say Jean-Pierre Jarier was a very good driver and you could've included him, definitely one of the best to never win a race
Great to see you stayed the whole way through, I knew he got a few pole positions but never knew if he was better than he seemed
Good list i can agree with most picks
I would put Hamilton around Vettels level, because Hamilton got lucky having the best car of his generation to win so many Championships ever. Verstappen on other hand is considered one of the best drivers ever to race in F1, so he should be above Hamilton. I dont understand how you consider somebody as less significant and known as Clark the best F1 driver of all time. The disrespect Räikkönen is also unreal, when his around Alonso’s level, when his just got unlucky with the car, when he could have won more Championships. Everybody also knew Senna was better, than Prost, so how is he behind Prost then, when Senna was the one who had balls at making epic overtakes compared to Prost that is just used to driving alone in the lead of the race. Bottas also aint worse, than Perez, when his shown that his much better teamate to Hamilton, than Perez was for Verstappen. Leclerc also I belive is bit better, when he just hasent had the opportunity to win a Championship yet with his poor Ferrari car, while he is top tier talent in F1.
You sound very arrogant assuming anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Räikkönen after 2013 was average at best and longevity counts. Senna was not better than Prost just because he had more balls, the reason Prost won so much from the front is because he was better. He outscored senna as teammates both years at McLaren and would’ve challenged in 1990 if not for Suzuka. The only reason people nowadays think senna is better is because of the glazing F1 themselves do for no apparent reason. If you went into this with an open mind rather than assuming everyone who disagrees with you is instantly wrong you’d learn something
@@nedzosf1gridbox
I didnt say anybody who disagree with me is instantly wrong. Thats your own arrogant assumption you just made yourself. Prost only won one more Championship, than Senna did. Still Senna was the crowd favorite for being able to overtake so many cars and Prost wasent the crowd favorite, when he wasent as good at that. I think Prost is one of the greatest drivers to drive in F1, but I would put Senna just little bit above Prost.
@@Jout8-re1ij crowd favourites don’t mean shit. Schumacher was hated yet was the best while Damon Hill, Lando Norris and co were loved despite not being worthy champions. Also you said “everyone knows senna is better than Prost”. Sounds very much like saying disagreeing with you is wrong
@@Jout8-re1ij Who cares if Senna was a crowd favourite. You're being emotional about your ranking, while OP isn't
I will be honest judging these f1 drivers are subjective. You can ranked them in their overall career like you did. You can ranked them based on success career like Hamilton and Vettel. You can judge them nased on prime. And you can judge them based on how they can adapt in a very poor f1 car like Fernando Alonso who is top 5 best f1 drivers of all time if I ranked him based on that. It is really subjective.
Best top 100! Lol i made it through the whole video in 1 sitting. I would have put hulkenberg above Gasley but its a good top 100.
Fair. Glad you enjoyed it!
mick was better than magnussen in the later part of the season
Well done, he beat magnussen who himself got dropkicked by Hulkenberg
Lol, pretty damn good stuff again. Vettel I believe should move up, I think Bottas > Perez, Fangio and Schumacher top 2 for me, G. Hill down, Piquet down, Stewart up, Webber up and Norris and Russell change positions. Then again I'm likely to do this myself at some point during the holiday. 😂🤣
Can't really argue the gut I didn'tsee race, but I think Couldhart, Maldonado and Bottas are a bit high. Russel above Massa is also a bit to high.
How so?
Perez' ranking is Absolutely DIABOLICAL mate! Bottas has nearly DOUBLE the amount of podiums, and nearly double the wins too! The only good things anyone seems to have to say of Perez are "he defended against Hamilton in '21" and "he won Sakhir in a ForceIndia!" I have never seen someone get as many chances in this sport as Perez has.
It seems like this dude is just nerd with his opinions and pride on it on who is better, while they dont seem to be that much in exact order.
Bottas spent six or seven seasons in podium capable machinery, Perez only had four, so DOUBLE the podiums and wins means absolutely nothing, adjusted for time spent in those cars they’re actually fairly equal. Perez in sauber in 2012 was fantastic, the same in Force India in 2016 and 18, and Racing point in 2020. The reason why people only talk about the things you mention above is because they haven’t watched the sport long enough to know his entire career. I didn’t want recency bias to affect this list because I don’t want to jump on the bandwagon of Perez hate and forget about the first decade of his career
@@nedzosf1gridbox I agree, but Bottas in that williams stint was more or less equal to perez' entire career pre-race winning machinery. I do believe his performances in the last 3-4 seasons (2021 wasn't a good year for him, especially if you consider the fact that his performances can almost directly be compared to bottas') should be used to bring him down. Also Russell didn't beat Hamilton in 2023, LH basically whitewashed GR last season and almost got 2nd place over a very poor Perez
@@mauriceabdalla7397 we can agree to disagree on Bottas and Perez but Lewis wasn’t as good as you think in 23
@@nedzosf1gridbox I agree George was very unlucky in some races, doesn't change the fact that Lewis 1) beat him and 2) performed better over the course of the season.
This is a long video lol, I'll have to give it a listen when I'm let's say practicing some matchups on a video game like Tekken 8 honing my competitive skills to try and go beyond my Tekken King rank future online. Then leave my thoughts at the end. It's an ambitious tier list to make, be interesting to see where you place them,
22 minutes in Hamilton the only man in the top 10, I don't think anyone can realistically disagree with that. I think Berger winning a title if he'd driven in the Schumacher era I may disagree with. I can't see him winning in a Ferrari alongside Schumacher at least, but maybe in a Williams while they had the dominance and lacked that superstar driver. Those are my thoughts so far, I agree Berger had some misfortune to be around such an S tier list of drivers in the era he drove in.
can you give me the link for the tier list ?
tiermaker.com/create/f1-drivers-all-time-1436965
First of: Great video, you clearly have crazy knowledge of F1. But I can't fathom putting Fangio over people like Hamilton or Verstappen. I know he was very dominant in his day, but F1 was infinitely less professional and competive than the later decades. He was very talented, sure, and it's hard to compare eras this far apart, but I don't think he would be anything special if you transported him to any decade past the 80s (when F1 really attracted global prestige and dedicated talent). Yes, his high finishing rate may come partially down to him managing his car, but let's not pretend finishing a race back then wasn't much more down to luck than today. Clark is a similar story, though not as egregious to me. Ofc just my opinion, not meant as disrespect.
I have to disagree. F1 was just as professional. It was less competitive in terms of field spread but the guys at the top were just as good as today. The worst era for field spread and competition was the mid 1990s (see Jean-Denis Deletraz, Giovanni Lavaggi, Taki Inoue and others). If you put Hamilton or Verstappen in a 1950s car and they tried to compete in a race from the time they would crash and die. The truth is that although the eras were different, it’s easy to hold drivers to the same standards as now because you look at the guys at the top and compare them. Also, Fangio literally sits in the top ten drivers of all time in terms of finishing percentages, he reached the end of 86% of races he started. There are no drivers from the 1950s who have a similar amount of starts as him with that high a finishing rate. Giuseppe Farina has 79% and Ascari has 71% from half to two thirds of the races which should work in their favour but it doesn’t. Fangio was a master of nursing unreliable cars to the end, he had a higher finishing percentage than Sebastian Vettel
@nedzosf1gridbox well, we're just going to have to disagree. Much less consistency needed in the 50s and 60s to compete at the front. Put Fangio in a 2024 F1 car, how is he going to cope with 6G cornering, 1000hp and actual wheel to wheel racing? How many racers in the 1950s went through junior formulas forming their talent and proving they deserve their seats? How many teams back then were a few blokes in a small garage doing it as a hobby? Way less consistency/talent to compete at the front IMO. Agree to disagree I guess.
@ruserification742 I think this is an interesting conversation because your first point about fitness is fair. Drivers didn’t always go through junior formulas, some did but often the ones who went on to be champions in the 1950s and early 60s established themselves either before the war (WW2) in Grand Prix racing or did club racing. For example Fangio won Turismo Carretera (modern day Argentine touring cars) in the early 1940s and then moved to European competition in the latter half of the decade. Farina was established before the war, Ascari more so from 1946-50, Mike Hawthorn started on bikes and did Formula Two. Junior series existed back then but there were so many regional ones and essentially F1, endurance racing and other events saw drivers switch readily between them so there wasn’t one concrete path to the top. There weren’t many privateer teams especially during the 50s, the likes of Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Mercedes, Talbot-Lago, Gordini, BRM, HWM, Cooper, Alta and co all had varying amounts of engineers with the big names having more. Only during the mid to late 1960s did drivers essentially make a one-man band approach and do it all themselves. Glad I could answer your questions and I hope some misconceptions have been clarified
Mansfield Town
Yep
Why Jim Clark would be the number 1 and Senna the number 5? I'm new in F1 and I don't understand, someone explain me why those 10 are the best 10
Nearly a year ago I detailed an in depth look into my top 10, albeit now the order has changed somewhat the principles are still there. It was a very long video lol
Here’s the link: th-cam.com/video/QUPh6NwpZes/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xH8_TYSyHaHyliCa
@nedzosf1gridbox thanks bro!
@ my pleasure to help any newer fan get acquainted with F1 history
@@nedzosf1gridbox I'm just starting.. my father was a fan when he was a kid and he saw what he calls the best part of the F1, with Senna, Prost, Lauda, Piquet, etc. Then when he got older, our country (Argentina) didn't have any pilots in the category, so the sport became less popular, but as you know, Colapinto just landed in F1 and the whole country is supporting him. Now we both see his races together
@marcosmonte307 Argentina is a very underrated nation in F1 terms because before Colapinto your last good driver who had success was Reutemann. I’m actually planning on starting a channel in Spanish very soon and likely Argentina and its drivers will turn up regularly
Could elaborate further on why Senna/Prost finish where they did. Interesting that you would put Prost above Lauda (due to being a 'better' version of him), but not Senna. Imo they're inseparable beyond opinion. Both maximised the machinery they were given, which was the pre-requisite as to why Lauda>anyone below him. Why is Lewis not ranked higher as well? Sure, he 'only' wins when everything is going right (2007,2010,2012,2018, and 2021 would disagree) but why would that be considered against him? Also why isn't Max ranked higher especially after this season? He's accomplished nothing less than what Senna has across his career.
@@mauriceabdalla7397 Prost was Lauda’s risk management style of driving on steroids. Sacrificed qualifying for race pace, and with more reliable machinery, and a normal points system, without Suzuka 1990 too would’ve been a seven time champion. Could’ve had three titles for Renault but reliability fucked him, and at McLaren only lost to Lauda on merit by one point. The only reason he lost to senna in 88 was the dropped scores taking away nearly two race wins worth of points, and even without Suzuka 89 would’ve won the title because Ayrton retired in Adelaide. We’ll never know how 1990 Japan would’ve panned out but he would’ve had a chance. The only thing senna had over him was banzai qualifying laps, but Prost had ruthless consistency in an era of bad reliability. Lewis isn’t ranked higher because if you look at how the rest of these top guys (Senna, Prost, Fangio etc), none of them lost on merit to a teammate who wasn’t also top 10 material ever, apart from Lauda to John Watson in 1982 and 83. No one else lost to a non-top ten driver apart from Lewis, who has lost to three of them, Button, Rosberg and Russell, all of whom are great drivers but should not have beaten a so called GOAT across a season, especially as easily as Jenson did in 2011. Even at their worst the likes of Schumacher, Prost, senna and co never lost to non-iconic teammates. For me, while his prime is amongst the best, I can’t ignore the fact that Lewis cannot do anything special in the non-fastest car in any given season (he was getting outperformed by kovalainen in the first half of 2009) and every other time he’s been error prone and worse than the likes of button or Russell. Put it this way, Schumacher never lost to Barrichello or Massa, senna and Prost never lost to the likes of Gerhard Berger or their other less successful teammates. As for Verstappen, I don’t want to succumb to recency bias. Verstappen now is in a very similar position to what Sebastian Vettel was in 2013, coming off the back of four successive titles and unprecedented dominance. Even though he has the same or better numbers than Prost or senna, you have no qualms with him being outside the top ten. That’s why I can’t put max there yet. I don’t want him to do a Seb and never seriously compete for a title again and then drop down the pack. It’s easier to rank drivers whose careers have finished for this reason. If max goes on to win for another four years, absolutely he’ll overtake those in front of him but I can’t right now for the reasons I’ve just detailed
@@nedzosf1gridbox Interesting read, hard to disagree with your analysis on Prost as I do believe his raw talent and ruthless metronomic way of always doing *just* enough to win should place him higher in the public's pov. However, the arguments on if they used the modern points system he would've won more, doesn't hold merit in my books. The rule book didn't change randomly at any stage during any season he was racing (looking at you AD '21) so it shouldn't matter. As for Hamilton, I agree he should never have been beaten by those teammates, maybe bar Rosberg in '16 as he somehow elevated himself to become a worthy world champion, something the likes of Barrichelo could never dream of (2009 was his only real opportunity and he never grabbed it). Only discourse I would have is your angle of why he isn't better than those ahead of him. LH is my favourite driver ever and I understand he isn't anywhere near perfect. Without the team's backing, a capable car, and a motivated mindset, he just always seems to struggle, which those you ranked ahead of him never lacked. I just think it's a shame that the way you looked at things means he is inevitably never going to move forward and is probably going to be viewed as 'worse' than Verstappen, even if he ends up winning the next 3 championships in a 2023 dominant style. Anyways, appreciate the opinion and glad to be educated.
@ if Lewis won the next three championships in dominant fashion he’d move ahead of senna but no higher because everyone in front of him took every opportunity they had. The best drivers truly outperform the expectations of every car they drive, and Lewis can’t do that. I appreciate you explaining you’re a fan of his, although I do believe that shouldn’t alter your opinions, I’m a neutral so I don’t have this problem
@@nedzosf1gridbox what would change between Lewis & Senna beyond him becoming a 10 time world champion? Sure, he’d be more *dominant* but that surely doesn’t justify being better than someone who took (nearly) every opportunity he got? Also was your reasoning on why Prost>Senna also applicable to why Lauda>Senna? And where do you see Max finishing his career, assuming he ends up on potentially 6 or 7 world championships, and would the narrative of how he won those championships change anything (i.e. if he had another season like this one) (Bonus Q - do you see anyone on the current grid breaking into the top 10)
@mauriceabdalla7397 the thing is senna like Lewis didn’t take every chance. And while I don’t think highly as much of only being good in dominant cars, doing so nine times out of eleven is more impressive than senna’s record. As to the senna Lauda point you’re correct
Massa > Bottas. Bottas annihilated Massa nonstop.
These two statements contradict each other
@@nedzosf1gridbox Yes it is contradiction. It means it should be Bottas > Massa
@madjayax731 if that’s your opinion fair enough
No Schumi?
Schumacher gets ranked later in the video
Keke Rosberg too high and Nico Rosberg to low in my opinion
How so?
Yo Mansfieldddddd
Yea, up the Stags
Hamilton lost to Rosberg..
@@britewires4305 in 2016 yea… what’s your point
@@nedzosf1gridbox
Why you then put Hamilton as so much better driver compared to Rosberg in your rankings, if Rosberg was able to beat Hamilton with equal machinery still. Verstappen is also better, than Hamilton, when he is considered one of the best drivers ever to race in F1 by many, while Hamilton has just got lucky with the best car on the grid to win so many Championships with it.
Rosberg beat Hamilton one season out of 3. If we go by your metric Daniel Ricciardo is a better driver than Max. Lewis isn’t the best but you have to be good to win in the best car, just look at Norris this season
@@nedzosf1gridbox
How is Bottas worse, than Perez also, when Bottas was much better teamate for Hamilton, than Perez was for Verstappen. I belive Hamilton is around Vettels level of F1 driver. Just, because you win the Championship many times dosent mean you are the best driver ever, when sometimes you get easily the best car on the grid with not as hard competition. That was also the case with Keke Rosberg, so its kind of funny how you put him above Nico Rosberg, while Keke only got one race win in that year. The disrespect on Räikkönen is also unreal, when his around Alonsos level driver, when he could have won more Championships, if he wasent unlucky with the Mclaren that was given to him. Senna is also better, than Prost, when Senna had the balls to make epic overtakes, while Prost is used to driving alone in the lead of the race and I dont understand how you pick somebody as random as Clark as the best F1 driver of all time. Leclerc also propably should be rated bit higher, when his just been unlucky with his Ferrari car reliaibility issues, while he does have a lot of pace.