T7 Jin was the final form of over 20+ years of fine tuning and tweaking a moveset and it really was perfect. It's impossible to make another moveset and have it turn out as well on the first try. They really should bring T7 Jin back
@ obviously they would keep his tekken 8 elements his animations can no longer be changed and heat has to stay but the properties can be changed of his moves to make his playstyle more similar to what it once was. Get rid of scourge or make it trash, bring back zen cancel, fix 2,1,4, make electric launch and wind hook fist only knock down, take out the one button electrics, make demon paw not track, nerf 1+2 reach, take all tracking out of his heat smash, even maybe rework zen to be more like it used to be. there are tons of things they could do. Jin was designed to have work put in and I want that back.
@branbelmont326 but see, you did nothing to describe why he wouldn't get murdered in this game. Make him the only Mishima who can't launch without df:2 so that that -10 move just plagues him and nerf all of his other good moves in a game with wind bear fist, free just frames for Lee, Nina's steps, etc. I like a more authentic kyokushin base but nerfing a character to shut up down players is awfully counter intuitive.
@ bro he’s literally top tier right now and I main Jin and I did in tekken 7. He was top tier in t7 too. You could literally put heat onto t7 Jin and make all the same moves heat engagers and he would be insanely good in this game what are you even talking about. They nerfed a ton of things from t7 Jin too if you don’t remember? Knockdown 10 frame wallsplat? Launching hellsweep??? You don’t sound very familiar with t7 Jin to me
I remember T7 Jin as a bottomless pit for exploring. People were finding new crazy stuff even after 4,5,6 years after the release of the game This was the best part of this character in my opinion
T7 Jin is a character that demands respect due to the commitment and expertise required to main him effectively. T8 Jin screams RESPECT ME as he commits backflips with angry red eyes before getting a wallbound from here to mars at the press of a button. Reductive jokes aside, I dont hate that he's been simplified to become more accessible, I hate that his weaknesses were patched up as he was simplified rather than becoming more pronounced to make up for the fact, and his iconic, cold as hell, grounded karate fighting style has been superseded by flips and bright red VFX. It looks flashy sure, but that was something that Jin never was. Heihachi and Kazuya had tyrannical, dripped out overlord vibes and Jin was the practical, down to earth foil to them in every regard, becoming an extreme example of their aesthetics when it comes to DvJ. He's been homogenised in every sense in T8 imho, and thats what I hate most, even though the VFX inclusion makes sense (wanting the MC to stand out and pairs with the story beats well).
That's a great take and yeah I appreciate them making Jin easier because it just makes sense... Kazuya has always been the main character that's super hard and technical to play and it wasn't necessary for Jin to follow that same archetype... But yeah I wish they would've made him less flashy like story mode Jin without the devil powers and maybe in heat he gets the devil stuff
I am sorry but Jin in T7 was just as annoying to deal with. - A 51 damage launching hellsweep that tracked well to the side. - F4 into guaranteed d2 which was the bread & butter after nerfs. You NEVER saw jins go for raw ws4 pickup btw lets not pretend that was everyones bnb. - Tracking electric. Not just pseudo homing. - Safe evasive launcher with pushback into 70+ damage and some of the best wall carry combos no execution required. - Safe counterhit low launcher that got nerfed in S4 (or was it S3?) and thank god for that. Still annoying when it gave a knd into guaranteed d2. When i picked him up in the later stages of T7 i surpassed all of my previous characters winrate wise within a few months. T7 Jin was just as stupid and you didn't had to do his advanced stuff to make him work. I saw TTG jins with poor electrics and i was a TTG jin that couldn't zen cancel and didn't even knew his frames very well. T7 Jin was the only mishima that carried his players. He was not a kazuya.
I have a younger cousin who just got into T8 as his first Tekken game in his life and he wants to main Jin so badly because of his flashy moveset (also because he's the main character). This right here gave me a reality check where I realized that oldhead Tekken fans (including myself) have been living in a bubble where we have an already defined notion about what makes a good wharacter and what doesn't. But guess what? Jin's popularity is rising even more than he ever did, people are loving the character, at the very least the casuals. Even one of my sparring buddies who never got into playing Jin in T7 just picked him up and he has become his sub character. While I personally don't like Jin in T8, I still appreciate the fact that Bamco tried to make the character MUCH more accessible to newbies. The main problem that I have however is with how overtuned he is. I don't mind the idea of sacrificing execution for the sake of accessibility as long as there's a price to be paid, however unfortunately Jin got away with diabolical things scot-free.
Casuals did not pave the way for tekken 8. Us hardcore tekken veterans did. They did too much to bring in casuals and pretty much gave fuckall to the veteran player base. Also skill ceiling they removed from law is totally pointless. Noobs played law in 7 doing dragon tails and backflips all day, and sophisticated law player would do DSS to showoff the time he invested in the character. Similarly they nerfed all the while running moves, in my opinion that is straight up disrespect to the time all the veterans put in the game to learn difficult stuff. Steve’s wall combo, shiro combo, jin’s zen cancels, along with million other things they made easy, gave every character one win button, that is just too much for casuals and nothing for the loyal fanbase like me who has been investing time and money since tekken 7 season 1.
Electric used to be a a staple move to show that you are a technical player, that you are good with a Mishima but with T8 Jin an Orangutan high on drugs can do electrics
He has electrics from stance, but the most used is still the usual electric, which has the same input as before. In fact he's the only char with a 14 frame electric, as opposed to 13 frame electric.
@@edgelord121 if we're talking high level play then sure, but forget 13 frame electrics which require extremely fast and precise input, we're talking about easy mode electrics here
I'm sorry but are you a pro ? Is it bothering you that much that a scrub Jin is doing electrics from a stance that's interruptable? Let me guess, you play Reina and think she's a hard character when all you do is spam ff2 strings?
The funny thing to me is that the devs seem to realize that being more grounded and martial arts based works better for a Tekken character. It's literally the climax of t8 story mode. And yet every character rework ended up making them more high fantasy anime in an attempt to increase their appeal
New intro is amazing btw I went to Japan over the summer with my brother, and both realized in arcades the difference in skill level in Japan, especially the blue collar workers that probably spend their afternoons after work grinding these games like crazy. Tekken 7 I tried Bryan, not being used to losing heat and all my extensions, and got absolutely toyed with by a Heihachi. Eye opening and honestly fun to see even if I lost tremendously.
Imo the problem is that the devs don't consider execution as a balancing factor and I don't think you're properly rewarded for playing a executionally demanding character
@@thenomix-upmix-up717 issue was akuma could skip execution and still get big rewards he just broke the game in a fundamental level, thats why we all hated him, not the death combos(those are cool...if frustrating to be on the receiving end lol)
@@Akario3 That's a straight up lie. Akuma's worthless without the execution. Otherwise he'd have been played by everyone online and would have had 90% win ratio in online ranked. But not only he was very unpopular, he also had an abysmal win ratio online.
@@desrtskuseason 4 made akumas execution a joke, with the ex tatsu he got, jab into an easy qcb 3+4 for a 10f 40ish damage launcher, suddenly anyone could do his combos, and it was natural off D3 aswell for an unseeable low launcher, he had routes and wall combos easy enough for people too, so no he wasn’t worthless without execution
I miss everything about Jin, his voice lines, move set, he used to be so cool. Jin was always my main and my all time favorite fictional character but Tekken 8 ruined him so bad I don’t even want to play him
@@Zippyd00da132 the devs themselves said that one of the core things about vf is that it's easy to play for beginners. Having a character be accessible for new players doesn't mean they dont have depth to explore later as you try to master them
It depends on if you can leverage the difficulty in a positive manner tbh. I think the bigger issue is that Bamco has 0 new player on-boarding. New players pick Jin, because he’s cool and then they have no-idea how to play or even where to learn how to play, so they just get curb stomped and eventually quit, because that’s not fun. Regardless of making Jin easier or harder, this is still a glaring issue they haven’t really addressed with T8.
From what I’ve seen, new players usually don’t pick the main characters in Tekken anyways. I always tell them to pick who they feel and its usually wildly different
By the end of T7, Jin was nerfed to the point that CBM gave up on him. If a hardcore Jin main gives up on a character, that speaks volumes and is a sign that the character was not viable in tournaments anymore. They NEEDED to make many changes to Jin for T8 so the legacy players could become uncomfortable with Jin and not easily counter him like he was in T7. In T7, Jin had weak lows(easy to see hell sweep, d4, d3+3, stance 4: his best low is db4 since it’s not launch punishable). CBM was the only guy doing 90% of F4 CH pickups. Literally no one else did it in tournaments that I saw. It’s ridiculously hard for a FUNDAMENTAL move in Jins arsenal. IF you want to fix it, the only way is to replace the move, make a new move. Because what other options do we have for a mid CH move? Literally nothing, hence why it’s a fundamental move for Jin. One button electrics are only from stance, so you have to enter the stance which is often not a great idea in neutral unless you have properly conditioned your opponent to be weary of your stance. Which is only possible because they gave Jin legit threatening options (the flip, electric, the knee chop). If you used stance in T7, you’re getting launched real quick! So they took a lot of useless stuff and actually made it a strength. Scourge is a bit OP, that’s prob the only move that could use some tuning. I think if you remove three hits from his CH combo that’d be better balanced(knock off 20 damage or so from its CH combos). With this said, Jin def needed a new low, 100%. Jin specialist are artist. There’s a lot of creativity with this character. He’s also the most known and therefore the most understood character. So anyone playing him is immediately at a disadvantage due to knowledge checks. If you fight Kuma, you’re not gonna have the same issue. So they literally had not choice but to change a lot. To get him back into the mix. Not to mention, T7 Jin had the second to worst win to lose ratio in the game. I’m just saying, there’s PLENTY of justification for buffs for T8 Jin. He’s not an easy character to play even in t8. Every character in t8 has their BS that you gotta figure out. So he needed his stuff too. It’s just matching the rest of the cast.
I don't think one pro dropping him means him not being viable. I'm pretty sure raef and danielmado were still doing incredibly well in tournaments up til the end of tekken 7.
I didn't see many people complain about him even in the season 1 of T7 (when CH f4 pickup was easy and CH db4 was a full launcher) yet they kept nerfing him again and again
Before I watch the video, I bet TMM will rant about how broken and easy T8 Jin is compared to T7 and how badly he wants him to be like T7 Jin even though TMM said that Jin is OP when we still had T7. So basically he wants Jin to be playing T7 in T8 so he is around F tier with no actual C and D tiers in the game.
The only major change that seems more like a nerf than anything else is the change in his voice. While before he looked like a 22-year-old adult, now he looks like a baby in an adult's body and in canon he is supposed to be 23 years old.
The developers destroyed my main character Steve. Miguel was also a main of mine and doesn't exist, and again Bandai brings a Final Fantasy character. tekken is no longer the same. too much has been changed, jin isn't well done either. Tekken needs a fresh start
That 1st combo was never that difficult. People love to exagerate. I could do it with very Little practice and consistently in Tekken 7. I dont Even play Jin
I think they should try to compromise and strike a balance with T8 Jin. He has too many simple buttons that are easy to use and get big reward, it would be great if they could keep the simple style for beginners who want to learn but have advanced stuff for the hardcore Jin players.
@@KingOfDarknessAndEvilThere's still a very very very big difference in a high execution Jin player and no execution Jin player. Yes he is easier to pick up and play but still requires execution if you wanna master him to his highest level.
Mained him since T4, the moment I saw him back flip in the trailer I was immediately put off. Dude used to be hard and you need everything in his kit to win but now it's just so easy to win man, back then it felt like I deserved my wins.... Started maining Kazuya now and currently enjoying my time but damn I miss the old Jin...
@@astral9807 i think he wanted to say that if they kept jin the same and added nothing new then the guy would still be crying about nothing new being added
Yeah I was put off too but I thought to myself that's probably because DVJ will be absent from T8 so giving DVJ moves to Jin will be a middle ground so legacy Jin and DVJ mains would share T8 Jin. That was until I saw the DVJ trailer reveal and facepalmed. It just doesn't make sense besides lore reasons for Jin to have moves like d2, Dive kick, Samsara, his claw from zen stance and so on ,they're all belong to DVJ. Bring back my edgy karate boy. Id rather have DVJ broken over Jin.
I am not main Jin but It is one of my secondary character, and for me is the hardest, I barely win using him, for me Reina is easier than Jin, and for MainMan, Reina is hard, is not harder tan Jin
I love how jin is like the only character who has the thing where the opponent stumbles back across the whole room… and he jin is still able to continue a combo😂 Just imagine a movie scene where jin lands that ch and the guy stumbles back over chairs and knocking glass cups off a table
You dont need to imagine that in a movie. Look at Dimitrius Johnson KOing a person in real life (In UFC) with a flying knee after a guy stumbled, in a similar fashion as a character hit by Jin's f+4 CH.
I've always with agreed with TheMainMan in terms of T8 Jin needing toning down but a lot of these are dramatic takes for TH-cam lol. F4 zen cancel was a super difficult "pro mechanic" move? Hell no. I've abused that in T7 all the way to Emperor because it's easier to get a combo than just a normal F4 CH and I'm not a pro player. You also seriously didn't expect Jin to be anime'd for T8 while everyone else was getting new BS moves with Heat? You want him grounded even though he literally has devil genes like Kazuya who, by the way, has some anime moves of his own. While I still miss T7 Jin, I totally understand the direction they took in T8. Does he need toning down? YES. Is he Akuma/Geese levels of BS? No.
man electrics sounded so much better in tekken 7, tekken 8 was an upgrade to basically everything including the sound effect on regular attacks, but they kinda dropped the ball with electrics. it was a downgrade, sad to see
From a sound design perspective Electrics in T8 sound amazing, they look amazing too. They just changed Jin’s ‘dah’, but DJ’s new sound has grown on me heaps
@@ricey3952 it sounds way less distinct now. it kinda blends in more as a generic video game sound effect and its less raw electricity, also shorter duration i believe
Couldn’t agree more on your thoughts on Jin. Was my main and I loved playing him and never thought I would lose all interest in him in 8. He’s just not fun to practice or play in my opinion in 8. Very grateful I have Reina and Heihachi though.
Yeah Reina, spam ff2 strings and reach Tekken God easy mode. What's so hard about her exactly? As for Heihachi, he's not hard or easy. He's just a bit easier to counter cause alot of his moves are weak to SS but that's the trade off you get for doing the dmg numbers that he does.
I'm new to Tekken with tekken 8 and i really like jin. It was really fun learning it since I wanted to play a mishima character but I can see why people would prefer the previous version of him.
This is some crazyass revisionist history considering TMM kept giving Jin shit throughout Tekken 7 Season 1 and Season 2, it's only when he got the CH standing 4 nerf(changed the launch type from a crumple to an instant S! launch) in Season 3 and onwards where he stopped ragging on the character, and even then every once in a while up to the final version of the game(Season 5 with the "new tactics" shit) he would throw shade at the character every so often. But don't even mind all of that, just in this video alone, you know when he says "Jin kinda excelled at everything" at 6:29, look at how some of those 1 jabs are whiffing before or after df1. Your average Tekken 7 character's jab wouldn't whiff at those ranges. I find it funny that the "perfect" character had some slight range issues(his old 1+2 in Tekken 7 was also inconsistent as shit) and his powercrush was one of the shittier ones among the cast. I'm not saying Jin wasn't a top tier character in T7, I'm just saying that calling his T7 version "perfect" is such a load of crap. You can call him "all-rounded", you can call him "the versatile S tier". Perfect isn't the word for T7 Jin. Hell, they even nerfed his old ff4 oki grounded hitting axekick in Season 4, which is another flaw he had, his lack of s threatening "steel pedal" type move. He only had Black Out aka his"while opp is grounded d2(grounded d1+2 in T8)". EDIT: Yes he mentions the range and the shitty oki at the 8 minute mark. I don't see how that changes my point that he and several people back in T7 still called him "perfect" IN SPITE of those things. The video is underplaying that. But I will say this. T8 Jin causing people to retroactively crave T7 Jin instead is lowkey funny lol.
I remember him having a massive issue with his jabs and df1, used to complain about shit range all the time. Didn't hear it so much here when it makes his point not to. He did always say he was perfect though. Notably his complaints when fighting Jin were always when he was losing 😂, suddenly several moves were a "problem".
TMM always has a hate boner for Jin, no matter what game he’s in. You can find videos of him arguing with Jin players at length about T7 Jin. This is just content farming. How can you put Jin above Drag, Law, Claudio, Shaheen, Xiaoyu, Alisa (etc!) in tier lists when they’re all broken af. Also not considering that due to Jin’s popularity, every bastard knows how to counter him… It’s just weird, until you realise that TMM has been a Kaz cosplayer since day one.
Another thing they gave jin in T8 which made him even better is 2,4 zen cancel. Not many talk about it. So if a jin player tries to punish with 2,4 and the opponent is in float state, in T7 you just get that. In T8, if you accidentally do 2,4 on a float you can just go into zen and then pick up the combo.
my fav Jin in all series, the combo freedom you had with him... It was unparalleled with any other Jin from the other iterations. the 3,1f cancels I miss them so much!
Honestly, a lot of people will disagree (understandably so), but since its impossible to return Jin to a specialist character now, a final battle devilless Jin with his legacy moves thats more difficult would be an interesting dlc
When options for staying on the ground was mentioned. First thing that came to mind was Jin’s ff4. I was always able to pressure my vortex by including that option. And on top of that that quick 4-3 option that makes him tumble onto the ground. Very good options. I think that goes to show that Jin just had a tool for everything. I don’t really play him in T8 because he’s simplified. Now I opt for Lee
I have played Tekken since 2 (I was in elementary school) and really started playing during 4 (in high school). The ridiculous dash cancel stuff is not what made past Tekken games fun. It was always how the game used 3 dimensions to add complexity to movement and counterplay. Making Jin more difficult will push him down the tier list, only to be replaced by someone else. I actually think Jin feels great (I don't play him), he just has no weaknesses in a game that does not have strong side movement. As someone who gets to play the game 5 hours a week, I enjoy not having to struggle against combos; it is the overwhelming pressure of heat, capture by 50/50s. the lack of defensive counterplay, and (at times) the high damage output that sometimes hurts the game.
I think it's more of the system change, not only jin but pretty much everyone ( other than maybe heihachi and devil jin ) is easier in T8 than previous games, hack even kazuya is much easier in T8 than previous games, law is much easier, dragunov is easier, lee while still hard is a bit easier
Dude Adrian, 1. You did NOT respect Jin during T7 at all, and you couldn't lose to him without moaning about how "perfect" he was. And 2. T7 Jin was a DYSFUNCTIONAL character. Broken but not as in OP, broken because he literally didn't work. Jabs whiffing, 1+2 whiffing after 1st hit, 2,1,4 whiffing point blank, df1 whiffing point blank, barely any lows to speak of. Combos off axis were garbage (and still are in T8, bf2,4 still drops for no reason)... Also, I'm sick of people bereaving the F4 pick up. No other character had to pay such an execution demand to get ANYTHING out of his MOST fundamental tool. But because it was Jin and you are a hater it was fine. Imagine Kazuya had to do any of that for his combos... ha jokes, outside of PWEFG from df2 (which is entirely optional) they were all easy, consistent and dealt 70% with his ridiculous wall combo. Worst is how you just make people parrot all this load of crap man. So tiring.
@@hyunka2756 exactly. TMM is just not good at the game, that’s the only conclusion to be drawn here. Imagine spending 8 hours a day playing player matches and ranked and still be utterly terrible at the game. If he loses, his opponent is a sweaty tournament player who is a loser.
I agree with everything you said except barely any lows that’s a reach d3,3 was decent db4 is always good and his hs launched(if it landed)Lee had demanding combos as well jins ss was terrible too
@@azteckjumbie9344 Dude I played T7 Jin, played him in T3-5 as a kid, and I would play him even if he were the worst character there is. I'm not the reason for anything, I never asked for buffs or OP moves. But T7 Jin and his T-Rex hands have nothing to do with balance, the character was crippled mostly by his 3d model, and on top of that he also had stuff like F4 being so hard to convert when every other character would kill you for a good CH with ease. And no, mainman is not correct and results say so. Dedicated Jin mains never won anything significant or dropped the character. Also, to all people whining about T8, Tekken 7 is still up and running. You don't have to play it just because it's the latest. Your ideal game is still there, go enjoy it 👍
Besides the lasers T8 Jin has almost every move of DJ and a better version of them. As things are right now you have 0 reason to play DJ unless you like the character.
I always liked devil jin more but I can't even play him anymore bro has like no tools Jin robbed him for his whole bag even kazuya to a small extent while he's left in the dumpster
@@neocrimson3542 Yeah I still play him regardless because I like him too much although I don't like at all that b3 is a heat engager and the charge punch is too op. Mcr is kinda ass because you can get jabbed out of it and floated for 70+ damage with a wall but I like the option that it gives despite being risky.
Tekken 7 Jin combos was literal art. Watching good Tekken 7 Jin players was so fun and refreshing.... Now I don't even care about the character anymore 😭
Another Jin hate video..... Look man, I understand you want a tryhard character but for all means and purposes Jin really was weak in T7 and needed the buffs in T8. He was nowhere near Leroy, Zafina, Fahk, Kuni, Steve, Geese or Akuma. Even if you perfected everything that he had he wasn't even top 10 and had the lowest winrate in the entire game. In T8, he's changed but again people have to understand that what he received isn't a full on buffs. He lost his magic 4 launch from T7, he lost the down 3 3 poke, he lost the df2 ch launcher, his parry isn't as good and he also lost the hell sweep launch. All of that just to gain what? Normal jab range like every other character, electrics that launch on normal hit like every other mishima, scourge and f4 ch combo became easy like every other character's combo. In T7 he wasn't just hard, he was just unreliable. There's countless times where even pros would drop the f4 combo not because it was hard but because it was inconsistent. As for scourge, pros rarely even use that move if you watch the Jins in the highest level because it's reactable and launch punishable. Yes it is a scrub killer move but everyone seems to have one in this game why shouldn't he? Jin doesn't even need that many changes in T8, I would just make his scourge -16 on block and remove the CH property on 214. Nothing else about him needs to get touched. As for his demon paw, yes it's hard to SS but it's not just his demon paw, the SS in T8 needs a buff in general because there are too many moves that aren't homing but track way too much but of course TMM only talks as if Jin has these issues. Jin with everything that he has in T8 still feels more fair to play against than the likes of Yoshi, Nina, Lars,Jun, Lili etc.. who will all start spamming their random bs strings and you always have to be the defensive one against them. Jin players still need decent defense in a game that encourages you to spam and pressure nonstop
T8 Jin's buff to his hand reach is the craziest weakness patch I have ever seen in Tekken. He literally can keepout with jab and df1. It is not they buffed it, they gave it a CRAZY reach.
don't forget that he had the worst powercrush in the game - super slow, short range high at 20f people can jab check and duck on reaction (because of the delay caused by absorbing a hit) - 34 dmg with no Oke, no wallsplat and resets neutral. I think that also added to the difficulty for beginners and intermediate.
I miss how t7 didn’t have so many giant moves that hit from 3.5 meters away. That and the back dash. Really want old KBD back you can even keep all the rush down. I don’t think rush down needed to be buffed, keep out nerfed, and movement nerfed. The archetype I liked I like the most (t7 Lee) just doesn’t exist anymore because even Lee is a rush down character now. If fighting games want to go in a certain direction fine whatever but they are losing things along the way. Like t7 Jin. We don’t have to be treated like babies and coddled constantly. Casuals aren’t going to play the game in 1, 2, 5 etc years and nobody bought the game bc KBD was nerfed and there are giant range 3 mids…you could say t7 had problems but you don’t need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Edit: It can be true that’s is a weird choice for your protagonist to be one of the hardest characters to play in the genre but the solution doesn’t need to be on the other extreme
That is the problem of Tekken before where the main protagonist isn't what you choose if you start with the game, you choose the characters that were initially debuted that you like the fighting style or character design. T8 changed that making anyone new to the game choose the poster boy.
People who did watch TMM back in the day know how much he shitted on every aspect of this character back in the day, but now he says he always liked him.
And how he barely landed the f4 CH combo but now says on a good day he could land it 80%, and how he'd often see Daniel Mado drop the combo when DM would almost exclusively go for the D2 follow-up. CBM and Atif would land it regularly, but they both abandoned Jin and saw major success after. Uncs is remembering things the way he wants them to be; Like how in every Akuma video he tries to demonstrate the +6~ d3 FADC but never does it(in Practice Mode where there's no pressure).
@@Shodan130 could you tell me where exactly he says that? like.. legit i dont watch insane amounts of TMM , where does he say that, roughly? He legit says, its not anime enough, yea?
@@finnT_YT he made a big deal of the lack of "wow factor" and the animations. the animations that are quite true to alot of martial arts application. they just don't look very video gamey. i wasn't making a direct quote. rather an extraction from the points that was made. which was that the game was "bland" he also made complaints that the game was "clunky" but thats to be expected when you play VF for the first time. like tekken it feels weird until you get it.
TMM sees Bryan getting a mid ch launcher from mid screen with easy pickup and a billion damage: fair and honest Tekken fundamentals TMM sees Jin hit an f4 in T8: EASY PICKUP THANK YOU HAWAWA
Its not fair for Jin to have hard execution when Lili and Bryan have easy execution from their CH keep out tools. It made sense in T7, cause his f4 was undeniably better than theirs. But now they're basically the same in range and tracking, so why should Jin be hindered with execution here, when his move is no longer superior to theirs? Execution for the sake of making him inaccessible makes no sense, if other chsracters with the same tool have a move just as good, but a combo eassier to do?
Season 1 jin f4 pickup was easy, db4 ch launched, uf2 ch launched, zen was easier as you didnt need the up input to cancel, and parry was a lot more forgiving
honeslty, i didn’t mind the extremely difficult zen cancel change. i wish they’d went somewhere in the middle because they made him way too easy now. i’ll never stop playing him though.
Great video, one on Dragunov would also be pretty nice. From how bad he was at the end of Tekken 7 to his downright godlike status in this game.. From a 18 damage wall combo to one of the best, the execution on his combos with the F3 loops etc. It is always sad to see respected characters, which they both were, downgraded to this status.
I just wish Jin didnt have all of the flashy magic moves in Tekken 8. In 7, he was so grounded with a really great moveset, that flowed beautifully. Then they changed everything :(
I absolutely LOVED playing Jin in T7. In T8 he’s just so unbelievably easy it sucked all of the fun out of mastering him. I havnt learned a single T8 tech for him and yet I got him to Emperor 😢
Maybe I play too honestly, but I really don't see the issue. You can still do pretty much everything from 7 in 8. He feels pretty much the same to me, just with some extra moves. Again, I play Jin similarly to how I use Kazuya, and I don't play against him much, so maybe it appears differently. To that point though, to reiterate, he still has pretty much all of his Tekken 7 combos, moves and frames. Just avoid using the new stuff if you think he's too easy
Ngl, even though this video is talking about Jin, this is how I feel about the state of tekken 8 it's so much more volatile with less skill ceiling and less skill expression.
As much as I agree, I think the idea of "this character requires skill to play" is an imaginary barrier because in the end it doesnt matter and none cares. Even CBM dropped Jin for Noctis in T7 towards the end.
These videos make me so sad I’ve been playing tekken casually and got into online in t8 and I’ve been a defensive Steve player and watching this just makes me sad on how much I missed out on 😢
But in T7 I couldn't press x to believe in my heart
How the hell we supposed to press x to believe in his heart while he's asleep in all episodes💀
Think brother Think!
T9 kaz is still on the ground being healed the entire game
@@prasanthraonilapu8809 worst case scenario that he'd end up being DLC
😂😂
Biggest nerf was the dah electric
No it wasn’t ,that sound bite doesn’t need to be tainted by the monstrosity that is T8 Jin. It’s a gem much like T7 Jin
Easily
The fastest and easiest decision of my life was to instantly install the dah mod along with the electric sfx
Exactly 200% that dah was much better
For me its 1+2
T7 Jin was the final form of over 20+ years of fine tuning and tweaking a moveset and it really was perfect. It's impossible to make another moveset and have it turn out as well on the first try. They really should bring T7 Jin back
@@branbelmont326 7 Jin would get murdered in this game. That should be the elephant in the room
@ obviously they would keep his tekken 8 elements his animations can no longer be changed and heat has to stay but the properties can be changed of his moves to make his playstyle more similar to what it once was. Get rid of scourge or make it trash, bring back zen cancel, fix 2,1,4, make electric launch and wind hook fist only knock down, take out the one button electrics, make demon paw not track, nerf 1+2 reach, take all tracking out of his heat smash, even maybe rework zen to be more like it used to be. there are tons of things they could do. Jin was designed to have work put in and I want that back.
@ you would be surprised how much of t8 characters strength comes from the heat mechanic itself. Heat smash, burst, dash, engage heals etc
@branbelmont326 but see, you did nothing to describe why he wouldn't get murdered in this game. Make him the only Mishima who can't launch without df:2 so that that -10 move just plagues him and nerf all of his other good moves in a game with wind bear fist, free just frames for Lee, Nina's steps, etc. I like a more authentic kyokushin base but nerfing a character to shut up down players is awfully counter intuitive.
@ bro he’s literally top tier right now and I main Jin and I did in tekken 7. He was top tier in t7 too. You could literally put heat onto t7 Jin and make all the same moves heat engagers and he would be insanely good in this game what are you even talking about. They nerfed a ton of things from t7 Jin too if you don’t remember? Knockdown 10 frame wallsplat? Launching hellsweep??? You don’t sound very familiar with t7 Jin to me
I will always miss jin's "DAH" when a electric was performed his t8 line doesn't hit the same
Mod it back in.
Dah was cool with the 6 sfx. It looks pretty dyeh now though
Kinda feel this way about hwoarangs “TWAH” > “TAHH”
"Deh" from Devil Jin hits crazy hard, looks like he's putting a lot of power
@@trcr3flexxx397 You just reminded me of that oooof, though I've gotten used to the new grunt lol.
I remember T7 Jin as a bottomless pit for exploring. People were finding new crazy stuff even after 4,5,6 years after the release of the game
This was the best part of this character in my opinion
Mostly because they buffed his wall travel but he was broken in season 2
Super versatile and very expressive
T7 Jin is a character that demands respect due to the commitment and expertise required to main him effectively. T8 Jin screams RESPECT ME as he commits backflips with angry red eyes before getting a wallbound from here to mars at the press of a button.
Reductive jokes aside, I dont hate that he's been simplified to become more accessible, I hate that his weaknesses were patched up as he was simplified rather than becoming more pronounced to make up for the fact, and his iconic, cold as hell, grounded karate fighting style has been superseded by flips and bright red VFX. It looks flashy sure, but that was something that Jin never was. Heihachi and Kazuya had tyrannical, dripped out overlord vibes and Jin was the practical, down to earth foil to them in every regard, becoming an extreme example of their aesthetics when it comes to DvJ. He's been homogenised in every sense in T8 imho, and thats what I hate most, even though the VFX inclusion makes sense (wanting the MC to stand out and pairs with the story beats well).
Please shut up.
Jin Kazama --> Jim Mashama
The flips are an eyesore indeed.
That's a great take and yeah I appreciate them making Jin easier because it just makes sense... Kazuya has always been the main character that's super hard and technical to play and it wasn't necessary for Jin to follow that same archetype... But yeah I wish they would've made him less flashy like story mode Jin without the devil powers and maybe in heat he gets the devil stuff
I am sorry but Jin in T7 was just as annoying to deal with.
- A 51 damage launching hellsweep that tracked well to the side.
- F4 into guaranteed d2 which was the bread & butter after nerfs. You NEVER saw jins go for raw ws4 pickup btw lets not pretend that was everyones bnb.
- Tracking electric. Not just pseudo homing.
- Safe evasive launcher with pushback into 70+ damage and some of the best wall carry combos no execution required.
- Safe counterhit low launcher that got nerfed in S4 (or was it S3?) and thank god for that. Still annoying when it gave a knd into guaranteed d2.
When i picked him up in the later stages of T7 i surpassed all of my previous characters winrate wise within a few months.
T7 Jin was just as stupid and you didn't had to do his advanced stuff to make him work.
I saw TTG jins with poor electrics and i was a TTG jin that couldn't zen cancel and didn't even knew his frames very well.
T7 Jin was the only mishima that carried his players. He was not a kazuya.
I have a younger cousin who just got into T8 as his first Tekken game in his life and he wants to main Jin so badly because of his flashy moveset (also because he's the main character). This right here gave me a reality check where I realized that oldhead Tekken fans (including myself) have been living in a bubble where we have an already defined notion about what makes a good wharacter and what doesn't. But guess what? Jin's popularity is rising even more than he ever did, people are loving the character, at the very least the casuals. Even one of my sparring buddies who never got into playing Jin in T7 just picked him up and he has become his sub character. While I personally don't like Jin in T8, I still appreciate the fact that Bamco tried to make the character MUCH more accessible to newbies. The main problem that I have however is with how overtuned he is. I don't mind the idea of sacrificing execution for the sake of accessibility as long as there's a price to be paid, however unfortunately Jin got away with diabolical things scot-free.
It makes sense. Statistics pretty much confirms that he's the most character in T8.
You can make character accessible and with low execution without making him braindead and flawless. Jin in T8 is still a badly designed character.
I like and respect this take as someone who took up tekken at the very end of 7 and really only started playing Jin in 8
@@icewind-g4m they basically said the same thing on the second half of the comment
Casuals did not pave the way for tekken 8. Us hardcore tekken veterans did. They did too much to bring in casuals and pretty much gave fuckall to the veteran player base. Also skill ceiling they removed from law is totally pointless. Noobs played law in 7 doing dragon tails and backflips all day, and sophisticated law player would do DSS to showoff the time he invested in the character. Similarly they nerfed all the while running moves, in my opinion that is straight up disrespect to the time all the veterans put in the game to learn difficult stuff. Steve’s wall combo, shiro combo, jin’s zen cancels, along with million other things they made easy, gave every character one win button, that is just too much for casuals and nothing for the loyal fanbase like me who has been investing time and money since tekken 7 season 1.
Electric used to be a a staple move to show that you are a technical player, that you are good with a Mishima but with T8 Jin an Orangutan high on drugs can do electrics
He has electrics from stance, but the most used is still the usual electric, which has the same input as before. In fact he's the only char with a 14 frame electric, as opposed to 13 frame electric.
Orangutan high on drugs is still smarter and more capable than most of tekken fanbase so not the best example.
He has the worst electric out of them and it being automatic from stance is inconsequential outside of beginner level.
@@edgelord121 if we're talking high level play then sure, but forget 13 frame electrics which require extremely fast and precise input, we're talking about easy mode electrics here
I'm sorry but are you a pro ? Is it bothering you that much that a scrub Jin is doing electrics from a stance that's interruptable?
Let me guess, you play Reina and think she's a hard character when all you do is spam ff2 strings?
LOVE THE NEW INTRO!!!
i actually wanna watch the intro now
It's only for the revisited series
who ever it is who made it, must be extremely good looking... 🤔
Word, that shit cold as hell 🔥
The funny thing to me is that the devs seem to realize that being more grounded and martial arts based works better for a Tekken character. It's literally the climax of t8 story mode. And yet every character rework ended up making them more high fantasy anime in an attempt to increase their appeal
Wanna hear a joke?
Tekken 8 Jin
Wanna hear another joke?
Thinking that T7 Jin required "skill" and was "balanced"
New intro is amazing btw
I went to Japan over the summer with my brother, and both realized in arcades the difference in skill level in Japan, especially the blue collar workers that probably spend their afternoons after work grinding these games like crazy.
Tekken 7 I tried Bryan, not being used to losing heat and all my extensions, and got absolutely toyed with by a Heihachi. Eye opening and honestly fun to see even if I lost tremendously.
I snuck out of my Amish cabin to watch this computer video
lmao
Based
Imo the problem is that the devs don't consider execution as a balancing factor and I don't think you're properly rewarded for playing a executionally demanding character
Yeah you’ve hit the nail on the head. A lot skills we’ve developed over previous Tekkens aren’t as rewarded in general
If they did, we would have to deal with a lot more Akumas... and we all loved Akuma so much, right? sigh
@@thenomix-upmix-up717 issue was akuma could skip execution and still get big rewards
he just broke the game in a fundamental level, thats why we all hated him, not the death combos(those are cool...if frustrating to be on the receiving end lol)
@@Akario3 That's a straight up lie. Akuma's worthless without the execution. Otherwise he'd have been played by everyone online and would have had 90% win ratio in online ranked.
But not only he was very unpopular, he also had an abysmal win ratio online.
@@desrtskuseason 4 made akumas execution a joke, with the ex tatsu he got, jab into an easy qcb 3+4 for a 10f 40ish damage launcher, suddenly anyone could do his combos, and it was natural off D3 aswell for an unseeable low launcher, he had routes and wall combos easy enough for people too, so no he wasn’t worthless without execution
I miss everything about Jin, his voice lines, move set, he used to be so cool. Jin was always my main and my all time favorite fictional character but Tekken 8 ruined him so bad I don’t even want to play him
Lol who's the new favorite
@ Jin’s still my favorite all time, but if we are talking strictly Tekken 8 I’d have to say Lili and Reina
Nah he still cool idk what you talking about
@@-nexusxv-8514Jin is gay as hell in 8 his poses are terrible too
@@Supreme_Asura poses?
This was the real Jin Kazama who required proper skill to play without all the anime backflips
How would T7 Jin honestly fair against T8 Drag, Nina, Yoshi, Claudio, Feng, and Clive?? Cmon now
Now we need tag 2 jin revisited
Would love to see him do it ngl
Guys, this video already exists.
Same as tekken 6 with new moves and same bound combo. And tag assault
Tag 2 was a broken mess lol and very unpopular game.
@TriggerzConnors Biggest difference is that Jin gained zen stance cancels. A big buff that defined his gameplay for a whole decade.
Problem is he is main character. In most of the games MCs are easy to pick up and play. Marketing wise it won't make sense for him to be hard.
Tell that to Virtua Fighter. I wonder if they'll make Akira easier.
@Zippyd00da132 VF doesn't have much of a market btw. Atleast as of now.
@@Zippyd00da132 the devs themselves said that one of the core things about vf is that it's easy to play for beginners. Having a character be accessible for new players doesn't mean they dont have depth to explore later as you try to master them
It depends on if you can leverage the difficulty in a positive manner tbh.
I think the bigger issue is that Bamco has 0 new player on-boarding.
New players pick Jin, because he’s cool and then they have no-idea how to play or even where to learn how to play, so they just get curb stomped and eventually quit, because that’s not fun.
Regardless of making Jin easier or harder, this is still a glaring issue they haven’t really addressed with T8.
From what I’ve seen, new players usually don’t pick the main characters in Tekken anyways. I always tell them to pick who they feel and its usually wildly different
YOOO THIS NEW INTRO FOR REVISITED IS AWESOME
By the end of T7, Jin was nerfed to the point that CBM gave up on him. If a hardcore Jin main gives up on a character, that speaks volumes and is a sign that the character was not viable in tournaments anymore. They NEEDED to make many changes to Jin for T8 so the legacy players could become uncomfortable with Jin and not easily counter him like he was in T7. In T7, Jin had weak lows(easy to see hell sweep, d4, d3+3, stance 4: his best low is db4 since it’s not launch punishable). CBM was the only guy doing 90% of F4 CH pickups. Literally no one else did it in tournaments that I saw. It’s ridiculously hard for a FUNDAMENTAL move in Jins arsenal. IF you want to fix it, the only way is to replace the move, make a new move. Because what other options do we have for a mid CH move? Literally nothing, hence why it’s a fundamental move for Jin.
One button electrics are only from stance, so you have to enter the stance which is often not a great idea in neutral unless you have properly conditioned your opponent to be weary of your stance. Which is only possible because they gave Jin legit threatening options (the flip, electric, the knee chop). If you used stance in T7, you’re getting launched real quick! So they took a lot of useless stuff and actually made it a strength.
Scourge is a bit OP, that’s prob the only move that could use some tuning. I think if you remove three hits from his CH combo that’d be better balanced(knock off 20 damage or so from its CH combos). With this said, Jin def needed a new low, 100%.
Jin specialist are artist. There’s a lot of creativity with this character. He’s also the most known and therefore the most understood character. So anyone playing him is immediately at a disadvantage due to knowledge checks. If you fight Kuma, you’re not gonna have the same issue. So they literally had not choice but to change a lot. To get him back into the mix. Not to mention, T7 Jin had the second to worst win to lose ratio in the game.
I’m just saying, there’s PLENTY of justification for buffs for T8 Jin. He’s not an easy character to play even in t8. Every character in t8 has their BS that you gotta figure out. So he needed his stuff too. It’s just matching the rest of the cast.
I don't think one pro dropping him means him not being viable. I'm pretty sure raef and danielmado were still doing incredibly well in tournaments up til the end of tekken 7.
💀
@donnieboy426 danielmado dropped him for marduk at the end of tekken 7 (he still used jin sometimes tho)
I didn't see many people complain about him even in the season 1 of T7 (when CH f4 pickup was easy and CH db4 was a full launcher) yet they kept nerfing him again and again
Book
Before I watch the video, I bet TMM will rant about how broken and easy T8 Jin is compared to T7 and how badly he wants him to be like T7 Jin even though TMM said that Jin is OP when we still had T7. So basically he wants Jin to be playing T7 in T8 so he is around F tier with no actual C and D tiers in the game.
Understanding what goes on inside this young Swedish man's mind is a truly difficult task at hand.
The only major change that seems more like a nerf than anything else is the change in his voice. While before he looked like a 22-year-old adult, now he looks like a baby in an adult's body and in canon he is supposed to be 23 years old.
Mainman cried about Tekken 7 Jin the entire time too though 😂
Loved the technical nuances in fighting games
They gotta chill and stop watering down the high skill stuff in new fighting games
Adrian conveniently forgetting how much he malded T7 Jin lol
TMM trying to get Jin nerfed so bad😂😂😂
The developers destroyed my main character Steve. Miguel was also a main of mine and doesn't exist, and again Bandai brings a Final Fantasy character. tekken is no longer the same. too much has been changed, jin isn't well done either. Tekken needs a fresh start
Nah the NEW main man intro??? LOVE IT. hope it’s not just for revisited videos
crying about jin and loving clive is wild work
6
I'd love to see more of these Tekken revisited vids, I think one on negan would be really cool, since he's kind of lost to the sands of time now
That 1st combo was never that difficult. People love to exagerate. I could do it with very Little practice and consistently in Tekken 7. I dont Even play Jin
I think they should try to compromise and strike a balance with T8 Jin. He has too many simple buttons that are easy to use and get big reward, it would be great if they could keep the simple style for beginners who want to learn but have advanced stuff for the hardcore Jin players.
I mean what incentive would they have to do that? He’s super popular as he is now
He's exactly that in tekken 8 minus hardcore stuff in high level play.
@@doublejacketjimmy391"He's exactly like that except he's not like that"
@@KingOfDarknessAndEvilThere's still a very very very big difference in a high execution Jin player and no execution Jin player.
Yes he is easier to pick up and play but still requires execution if you wanna master him to his highest level.
Mained him since T4, the moment I saw him back flip in the trailer I was immediately put off. Dude used to be hard and you need everything in his kit to win but now it's just so easy to win man, back then it felt like I deserved my wins.... Started maining Kazuya now and currently enjoying my time but damn I miss the old Jin...
If they made no changes to jin and left him the same in T8, you dude would be whining and crying still, lol.
@@KDBSPORTS_ENTwhat even is ur point here? He’d still be crying if they left jin in the state he liked? How? lmao
@@astral9807 i think he wanted to say that if they kept jin the same and added nothing new then the guy would still be crying about nothing new being added
Yeah I was put off too but I thought to myself that's probably because DVJ will be absent from T8 so giving DVJ moves to Jin will be a middle ground so legacy Jin and DVJ mains would share T8 Jin. That was until I saw the DVJ trailer reveal and facepalmed. It just doesn't make sense besides lore reasons for Jin to have moves like d2, Dive kick, Samsara, his claw from zen stance and so on ,they're all belong to DVJ. Bring back my edgy karate boy. Id rather have DVJ broken over Jin.
I am not main Jin but It is one of my secondary character, and for me is the hardest, I barely win using him, for me Reina is easier than Jin, and for MainMan, Reina is hard, is not harder tan Jin
I love how jin is like the only character who has the thing where the opponent stumbles back across the whole room… and he jin is still able to continue a combo😂
Just imagine a movie scene where jin lands that ch and the guy stumbles back over chairs and knocking glass cups off a table
Reina has it as well, i think its her CD3 on CH
@@loto7197 Nah, they just fall down
Lars can do it with f1,2,3 CH
You dont need to imagine that in a movie. Look at Dimitrius Johnson KOing a person in real life (In UFC) with a flying knee after a guy stumbled, in a similar fashion as a character hit by Jin's f+4 CH.
Feng
I've always with agreed with TheMainMan in terms of T8 Jin needing toning down but a lot of these are dramatic takes for TH-cam lol. F4 zen cancel was a super difficult "pro mechanic" move? Hell no. I've abused that in T7 all the way to Emperor because it's easier to get a combo than just a normal F4 CH and I'm not a pro player. You also seriously didn't expect Jin to be anime'd for T8 while everyone else was getting new BS moves with Heat? You want him grounded even though he literally has devil genes like Kazuya who, by the way, has some anime moves of his own.
While I still miss T7 Jin, I totally understand the direction they took in T8. Does he need toning down? YES. Is he Akuma/Geese levels of BS? No.
i didnt watch the video, but with pro mechanic he probably meant converting f4 on ch into combo without going into zen, that was extremely hard
@@Nico-tz7ut No he specifically says that zen cancel is a "pro mechanic" at 11:45
man electrics sounded so much better in tekken 7, tekken 8 was an upgrade to basically everything including the sound effect on regular attacks, but they kinda dropped the ball with electrics. it was a downgrade, sad to see
From a sound design perspective Electrics in T8 sound amazing, they look amazing too. They just changed Jin’s ‘dah’, but DJ’s new sound has grown on me heaps
Its iconic sure but lets not pretend its not a 20 year old stock electricity sound effect lol
@@nolanburgess5447 nostalgia just blinds people, the new electric sound is heavy and amazing
I miss some sound effects in T7 like the backdashing sound effect in infinite azure and electrics
@@ricey3952 it sounds way less distinct now. it kinda blends in more as a generic video game sound effect and its less raw electricity, also shorter duration i believe
Couldn’t agree more on your thoughts on Jin. Was my main and I loved playing him and never thought I would lose all interest in him in 8. He’s just not fun to practice or play in my opinion in 8. Very grateful I have Reina and Heihachi though.
Yeah Reina, spam ff2 strings and reach Tekken God easy mode.
What's so hard about her exactly?
As for Heihachi, he's not hard or easy. He's just a bit easier to counter cause alot of his moves are weak to SS but that's the trade off you get for doing the dmg numbers that he does.
Lmao ashii your way to GoD XDDD
try dvj now is reealy fun to practice
I'm new to Tekken with tekken 8 and i really like jin. It was really fun learning it since I wanted to play a mishima character but I can see why people would prefer the previous version of him.
This is some crazyass revisionist history considering TMM kept giving Jin shit throughout Tekken 7 Season 1 and Season 2, it's only when he got the CH standing 4 nerf(changed the launch type from a crumple to an instant S! launch) in Season 3 and onwards where he stopped ragging on the character, and even then every once in a while up to the final version of the game(Season 5 with the "new tactics" shit) he would throw shade at the character every so often.
But don't even mind all of that, just in this video alone, you know when he says "Jin kinda excelled at everything" at 6:29, look at how some of those 1 jabs are whiffing before or after df1. Your average Tekken 7 character's jab wouldn't whiff at those ranges. I find it funny that the "perfect" character had some slight range issues(his old 1+2 in Tekken 7 was also inconsistent as shit) and his powercrush was one of the shittier ones among the cast. I'm not saying Jin wasn't a top tier character in T7, I'm just saying that calling his T7 version "perfect" is such a load of crap. You can call him "all-rounded", you can call him "the versatile S tier". Perfect isn't the word for T7 Jin. Hell, they even nerfed his old ff4 oki grounded hitting axekick in Season 4, which is another flaw he had, his lack of s threatening "steel pedal" type move. He only had Black Out aka his"while opp is grounded d2(grounded d1+2 in T8)".
EDIT: Yes he mentions the range and the shitty oki at the 8 minute mark. I don't see how that changes my point that he and several people back in T7 still called him "perfect" IN SPITE of those things. The video is underplaying that. But I will say this. T8 Jin causing people to retroactively crave T7 Jin instead is lowkey funny lol.
100% TMM is responsible for much of the anti Jin sentiments and it started in T7 as you pointed out
Hey you mind want to check out 8:02, kind of says the exact same things in the latter half of your comment
Yeah right . He comment all just like on the video😂😂@@KingOfDarknessAndEvil
I remember him having a massive issue with his jabs and df1, used to complain about shit range all the time. Didn't hear it so much here when it makes his point not to. He did always say he was perfect though. Notably his complaints when fighting Jin were always when he was losing 😂, suddenly several moves were a "problem".
TMM always has a hate boner for Jin, no matter what game he’s in.
You can find videos of him arguing with Jin players at length about T7 Jin.
This is just content farming.
How can you put Jin above Drag, Law, Claudio, Shaheen, Xiaoyu, Alisa (etc!) in tier lists when they’re all broken af. Also not considering that due to Jin’s popularity, every bastard knows how to counter him…
It’s just weird, until you realise that TMM has been a Kaz cosplayer since day one.
These retrospective videos are my favorite
This new intro is FIRE!! Great job
Another thing they gave jin in T8 which made him even better is 2,4 zen cancel. Not many talk about it. So if a jin player tries to punish with 2,4 and the opponent is in float state, in T7 you just get that. In T8, if you accidentally do 2,4 on a float you can just go into zen and then pick up the combo.
Nice new intro! I like the way jin is now but i still like T3 and TT1 Jin probably the best
my fav Jin in all series, the combo freedom you had with him... It was unparalleled with any other Jin from the other iterations. the 3,1f cancels I miss them so much!
Honestly, a lot of people will disagree (understandably so), but since its impossible to return Jin to a specialist character now, a final battle devilless Jin with his legacy moves thats more difficult would be an interesting dlc
When options for staying on the ground was mentioned. First thing that came to mind was Jin’s ff4. I was always able to pressure my vortex by including that option. And on top of that that quick 4-3 option that makes him tumble onto the ground.
Very good options.
I think that goes to show that Jin just had a tool for everything.
I don’t really play him in T8 because he’s simplified. Now I opt for Lee
Bro them intros are getting better and better
The little intro with the vhs is awesome...as always.
I have played Tekken since 2 (I was in elementary school) and really started playing during 4 (in high school). The ridiculous dash cancel stuff is not what made past Tekken games fun. It was always how the game used 3 dimensions to add complexity to movement and counterplay. Making Jin more difficult will push him down the tier list, only to be replaced by someone else. I actually think Jin feels great (I don't play him), he just has no weaknesses in a game that does not have strong side movement. As someone who gets to play the game 5 hours a week, I enjoy not having to struggle against combos; it is the overwhelming pressure of heat, capture by 50/50s. the lack of defensive counterplay, and (at times) the high damage output that sometimes hurts the game.
Love these throwback and comparison videos.
I think it's more of the system change, not only jin but pretty much everyone ( other than maybe heihachi and devil jin ) is easier in T8 than previous games, hack even kazuya is much easier in T8 than previous games, law is much easier, dragunov is easier, lee while still hard is a bit easier
for me dvj is difficult in t8 rather than in t7
Dude Adrian, 1. You did NOT respect Jin during T7 at all, and you couldn't lose to him without moaning about how "perfect" he was. And 2. T7 Jin was a DYSFUNCTIONAL character. Broken but not as in OP, broken because he literally didn't work. Jabs whiffing, 1+2 whiffing after 1st hit, 2,1,4 whiffing point blank, df1 whiffing point blank, barely any lows to speak of. Combos off axis were garbage (and still are in T8, bf2,4 still drops for no reason)... Also, I'm sick of people bereaving the F4 pick up. No other character had to pay such an execution demand to get ANYTHING out of his MOST fundamental tool. But because it was Jin and you are a hater it was fine. Imagine Kazuya had to do any of that for his combos... ha jokes, outside of PWEFG from df2 (which is entirely optional) they were all easy, consistent and dealt 70% with his ridiculous wall combo. Worst is how you just make people parrot all this load of crap man. So tiring.
@@hyunka2756 exactly. TMM is just not good at the game, that’s the only conclusion to be drawn here. Imagine spending 8 hours a day playing player matches and ranked and still be utterly terrible at the game.
If he loses, his opponent is a sweaty tournament player who is a loser.
I agree with everything you said except barely any lows that’s a reach d3,3 was decent db4 is always good and his hs launched(if it landed)Lee had demanding combos as well jins ss was terrible too
Does not negate the fact he's 100% Correct and players like you are the Reason T8 is like this..
@@azteckjumbie9344 Dude I played T7 Jin, played him in T3-5 as a kid, and I would play him even if he were the worst character there is. I'm not the reason for anything, I never asked for buffs or OP moves. But T7 Jin and his T-Rex hands have nothing to do with balance, the character was crippled mostly by his 3d model, and on top of that he also had stuff like F4 being so hard to convert when every other character would kill you for a good CH with ease. And no, mainman is not correct and results say so. Dedicated Jin mains never won anything significant or dropped the character.
Also, to all people whining about T8, Tekken 7 is still up and running. You don't have to play it just because it's the latest. Your ideal game is still there, go enjoy it 👍
Besides the lasers T8 Jin has almost every move of DJ and a better version of them. As things are right now you have 0 reason to play DJ unless you like the character.
I always liked devil jin more but I can't even play him anymore bro has like no tools Jin robbed him for his whole bag even kazuya to a small extent while he's left in the dumpster
Jin reworked
DJ is made
Jin reworked
DJ is unmade
Comedy
@@neocrimson3542 Yeah I still play him regardless because I like him too much although I don't like at all that b3 is a heat engager and the charge punch is too op. Mcr is kinda ass because you can get jabbed out of it and floated for 70+ damage with a wall but I like the option that it gives despite being risky.
@@fabled2821how poetic
I understand why they felt like they had to make Jin the accessible Mishima. There is already Devil Jin if you want an execution heavy Jin, right?
Unfortunately, they ruined Devil Jin in a different way.
the new intro is sick brother
Tekken 7 Jin combos was literal art. Watching good Tekken 7 Jin players was so fun and refreshing.... Now I don't even care about the character anymore 😭
Another Jin hate video.....
Look man, I understand you want a tryhard character but for all means and purposes Jin really was weak in T7 and needed the buffs in T8. He was nowhere near Leroy, Zafina, Fahk, Kuni, Steve, Geese or Akuma. Even if you perfected everything that he had he wasn't even top 10 and had the lowest winrate in the entire game.
In T8, he's changed but again people have to understand that what he received isn't a full on buffs.
He lost his magic 4 launch from T7, he lost the down 3 3 poke, he lost the df2 ch launcher, his parry isn't as good and he also lost the hell sweep launch.
All of that just to gain what? Normal jab range like every other character, electrics that launch on normal hit like every other mishima, scourge and f4 ch combo became easy like every other character's combo.
In T7 he wasn't just hard, he was just unreliable. There's countless times where even pros would drop the f4 combo not because it was hard but because it was inconsistent.
As for scourge, pros rarely even use that move if you watch the Jins in the highest level because it's reactable and launch punishable. Yes it is a scrub killer move but everyone seems to have one in this game why shouldn't he?
Jin doesn't even need that many changes in T8, I would just make his scourge -16 on block and remove the CH property on 214. Nothing else about him needs to get touched.
As for his demon paw, yes it's hard to SS but it's not just his demon paw, the SS in T8 needs a buff in general because there are too many moves that aren't homing but track way too much but of course TMM only talks as if Jin has these issues.
Jin with everything that he has in T8 still feels more fair to play against than the likes of Yoshi, Nina, Lars,Jun, Lili etc.. who will all start spamming their random bs strings and you always have to be the defensive one against them. Jin players still need decent defense in a game that encourages you to spam and pressure nonstop
TOTALLY AGREE BRO . JIN WAS SO HARD TO PLAY BACK IN THE DAYS I USED TO PRACTICE ELECTRICS FOR HOURS NOW ITS MORE EASY AND I LOVE IT.
T8 Jin's buff to his hand reach is the craziest weakness patch I have ever seen in Tekken. He literally can keepout with jab and df1. It is not they buffed it, they gave it a CRAZY reach.
don't forget that he had the worst powercrush in the game
- super slow, short range high at 20f people can jab check and duck on reaction (because of the delay caused by absorbing a hit)
- 34 dmg with no Oke, no wallsplat and resets neutral.
I think that also added to the difficulty for beginners and intermediate.
I miss how t7 didn’t have so many giant moves that hit from 3.5 meters away. That and the back dash. Really want old KBD back you can even keep all the rush down.
I don’t think rush down needed to be buffed, keep out nerfed, and movement nerfed.
The archetype I liked I like the most (t7 Lee) just doesn’t exist anymore because even Lee is a rush down character now.
If fighting games want to go in a certain direction fine whatever but they are losing things along the way. Like t7 Jin. We don’t have to be treated like babies and coddled constantly.
Casuals aren’t going to play the game in 1, 2, 5 etc years and nobody bought the game bc KBD was nerfed and there are giant range 3 mids…you could say t7 had problems but you don’t need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Edit:
It can be true that’s is a weird choice for your protagonist to be one of the hardest characters to play in the genre but the solution doesn’t need to be on the other extreme
Opposite opinion: in T7 nearly everyone has infinite range moves with tons of phantom range
That intro is total 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
That is the problem of Tekken before where the main protagonist isn't what you choose if you start with the game, you choose the characters that were initially debuted that you like the fighting style or character design. T8 changed that making anyone new to the game choose the poster boy.
I just noticed that VHS player in TMMs intro has Russian signs on it, lol.
People who did watch TMM back in the day know how much he shitted on every aspect of this character back in the day, but now he says he always liked him.
And how he barely landed the f4 CH combo but now says on a good day he could land it 80%, and how he'd often see Daniel Mado drop the combo when DM would almost exclusively go for the D2 follow-up.
CBM and Atif would land it regularly, but they both abandoned Jin and saw major success after.
Uncs is remembering things the way he wants them to be; Like how in every Akuma video he tries to demonstrate the +6~ d3 FADC but never does it(in Practice Mode where there's no pressure).
could you tell me what you mean by he shit on him, maybe? Some sources... senor nova seiken fan?
nevermind back in the day. brother is talking about grounded martial arts then blasted VF a week ago for not being anime and flashy enough
@@Shodan130 could you tell me where exactly he says that? like.. legit i dont watch insane amounts of TMM , where does he say that, roughly? He legit says, its not anime enough, yea?
@@finnT_YT he made a big deal of the lack of "wow factor" and the animations. the animations that are quite true to alot of martial arts application. they just don't look very video gamey. i wasn't making a direct quote. rather an extraction from the points that was made. which was that the game was "bland"
he also made complaints that the game was "clunky" but thats to be expected when you play VF for the first time. like tekken it feels weird until you get it.
Intro goes soo hard man❤
TMM sees Bryan getting a mid ch launcher from mid screen with easy pickup and a billion damage: fair and honest Tekken fundamentals
TMM sees Jin hit an f4 in T8: EASY PICKUP THANK YOU HAWAWA
man sleeps when jin has the easy pick up in T5,T6,TTT2, MOST of T7. but now it's an issue
Here comes the T8 braindead jin meatriders, "leave my braindead ass character alone tmm 😭"
Its not fair for Jin to have hard execution when Lili and Bryan have easy execution from their CH keep out tools. It made sense in T7, cause his f4 was undeniably better than theirs. But now they're basically the same in range and tracking, so why should Jin be hindered with execution here, when his move is no longer superior to theirs?
Execution for the sake of making him inaccessible makes no sense, if other chsracters with the same tool have a move just as good, but a combo eassier to do?
Season 1 jin f4 pickup was easy, db4 ch launched, uf2 ch launched, zen was easier as you didnt need the up input to cancel, and parry was a lot more forgiving
Steve as next t7 revisited would be dopeeee
As a Jin main I agree. Forgot to mention that Jin doesn't have sidestepping in T7
Hardest staple in t7 is by far the shiro combo jin f4 is not even close
scrupman just mad he cant react to d2 omegalul
"TROPHY UNLOCKED: Achieved online rank "Tekken Omega LUL" "
honeslty, i didn’t mind the extremely difficult zen cancel change. i wish they’d went somewhere in the middle because they made him way too easy now. i’ll never stop playing him though.
Great video, one on Dragunov would also be pretty nice. From how bad he was at the end of Tekken 7 to his downright godlike status in this game.. From a 18 damage wall combo to one of the best, the execution on his combos with the F3 loops etc. It is always sad to see respected characters, which they both were, downgraded to this status.
The new intro is fire
It's like he and Feng swapped places from Tekken 7 to Tekken 8
I just wish Jin didnt have all of the flashy magic moves in Tekken 8. In 7, he was so grounded with a really great moveset, that flowed beautifully. Then they changed everything :(
not to mention. wing hook fist is just a knock down on normal hit. while in t8 it's now a launcher on normal hit.
You’re thinking about T6, in T7 it also launched on normal hit
@@emranali097he's talkinh about whf not ewhf lol
@@emranali097it never launched on normal hit ever until t8
@@ThályssonSilvaW ahh mb yea I thought he meant EWHF, Tbf I wouldn’t see the point of doing WHF anyway.
@@emranali097execution issue is usually the case for whf
Mainman and editorman really cooked for that intro🔥
I absolutely LOVED playing Jin in T7. In T8 he’s just so unbelievably easy it sucked all of the fun out of mastering him. I havnt learned a single T8 tech for him and yet I got him to Emperor 😢
The fact that the 'Doriya' remained means Jin's electric battle cry was redone. It is so bad. Let us complain enough so it is changed.
Tekken revisited is the best, love the intro
think alot of characters have been made easier to play in t8 not just jin
Untill Tekken 7
Pros were respected.
But the present situation is BAMBOOZLED by devs just to welcome new players
So what should have been changed about him tho? Should every other character have gotten easier to use except him? Need a good opinion
A friend of mine who was a Jin specialist and main in T7 dropped him and has now picked up Kazuya and Dvj. He said Jin's too gimmicky now.
He just didn't believe in Jin's heart.
and devil jin is not gimmicky xd
Jin is gmimmicky but he has picked up Devil Jin?
LOL
@@FallenStarGMV that's what I'm saying ROFL
@@FallenStarGMV yup.
Maybe I play too honestly, but I really don't see the issue. You can still do pretty much everything from 7 in 8. He feels pretty much the same to me, just with some extra moves. Again, I play Jin similarly to how I use Kazuya, and I don't play against him much, so maybe it appears differently.
To that point though, to reiterate, he still has pretty much all of his Tekken 7 combos, moves and frames. Just avoid using the new stuff if you think he's too easy
Do you make your intros TMM? ik you said you used to do 3d work.
Ngl, even though this video is talking about Jin, this is how I feel about the state of tekken 8 it's so much more volatile with less skill ceiling and less skill expression.
What's the song playing in TMM's new Intro?
Ambatakam
Darude - Sandstrom
@@FLOW533 are you sure it's Darude - Sandstorm? it sound different
@@syaredzaashrafi1101no its definitely darude sandstorm
what's the bgm on geometric plane, it's very ambient
As much as I agree, I think the idea of "this character requires skill to play" is an imaginary barrier because in the end it doesnt matter and none cares.
Even CBM dropped Jin for Noctis in T7 towards the end.
These videos make me so sad I’ve been playing tekken casually and got into online in t8 and I’ve been a defensive Steve player and watching this just makes me sad on how much I missed out on 😢
Incredible intro!!
Tekken Tag arcade theme in the intro is just too perfect
Goated intro plz keep using it.
I'm liking all the revisited stuff I've been seeing in the FGC it's fun
Biggest nerf was ever making T8
developers make the old powerful air combo weak but the new air combo stronger with every character since the dawn of Tekken
Can't believe he didn't talk about his best punish
Zen 1+2