I don't know why an extra 1d4/2 damage on average needs to be restricted to once per turn. I'm glad it ignores resistance to cold damage and you still get cold damage. Come on, I think the Ranger can have a d6 damage boost and not have it be limited to once per turn. They desperately need the DPR. I like that Hunter's Mark can actually do something now but the concentration and bonus action transfer still sucks. I don't see what Remove Curse has to do with the cold or frigid or even fear. I would think Fear or Slow would be both superior spells and more thematic. Cone of Cold is a decent blast spell. I like Fortifying Soul. Seems pretty solid. Frozen Soul doesn't seem to go past resistances and I doubt 2d4 is doing much at level 15. At least made it 2d8? Not even half as good as Spirit Guardians? A 3rd level spell? That's rough. Immunity to grapple, prone and restrained are great. Overall, I think this has a lot of promise but needs some bumps.
The 1d4 damage is *not* once per turn. It is once *per target* per turn. A lot of Ranger's kit seems to be pushing them towards multiple target focus, which is something 5e didn't have previously. It's odd, and I'm not sure if I like it, but they're clearly trying to push Ranger into being the kings of multi-target damage.
The unfortunate thing about Fear and Sleet Storm (which would be better choices) is that they also both require Concentration so it conflicts with Hunter’s Mark lol.
Why are they so afraid of the ranger being too good? After being "sub-par" since 2014, you'd think they could throw them a true bone. Especially in UA! Let the players love the ranger. Maybe they'll buff afterwards?
I think this subclass is so close to being really great. I think it’s still my favourite we have seen in 2024 but yeah, it just needs a bit of work to get there!
A potential buff to ranger could be that at some level they gain the ability to concentrate on hunter's mark and a 2nd spell at the same time, and if concentration is lost they lose it on both spells. When they get advantage on concentration saves for hunter's mark, this could also apply so if they have conjure animals and hunter's mark, they get advantage on concentration since hunter's mark is involved
An interesting concept. I think a lot of people just think that dropping the concentration requirement for it somewhere in tier 2 makes sense but I like what you’re cooking with.
This may sound crazy: but ignore concentration for HM. Idc how strong it sounds, it was in the UA and people thought it was too strong despite the class... as a WHOLE... has a bad rep for being bad.
I’ve literally had this exact same thing all the time. I mean let’s just make the ranger the best ‘concentration’ class out there. I mean imagine at level 20 the ranger could somehow concentrate on four spells at once
Personally I think it should specifically be Hunter's Mark and 1 other Ranger Spell, that way you can't go too crazy with it by stacking it with Spells like Hex or Bytopia forbid, 2024 Conjure Minor Elementals, because that can just get way too silly. But just being able to Concentrate or more than 1 Spell at a time would be a massive boon for Rangers since their Spell balance is so heavily warped by having too many overpowered options for Concentration Spells like Spike Growth (especially since they can use Heavy Crossbow Mastery combo on their own) and Conjure Animals (the 2nd most egregious of the new Conjure Spells since it just blows Call Lightning out of the water), making the mistakes of 2014 Ranger not keeping Hunter's Quarry from 4e and instead resurrecting the garbage of Favored Enemy from 3.5 in a worse form to go from a misguided decision into a massive screwup that stills haunts Ranger in 2024 and beyond. Though in all honesty, I now think that the issue is less Hunter's Mark having Concentration, and instead just how there's just way too many Concentration Spells in general, especially in just the PHB alone. With Ranger, 1st Rank sees just under 1/2 the Spells have Concentration (6/14), 2nd Rank also has just under 1/2 use it but 2 of them are among the most overpowered Spells in a Rank with few truly good Spells (8/18), 3rd Rank finally has a way fewer with just over 1/4 having Concentration and some actually good non-Concentration Spells (5/16), 4th Rank is trash with only 1 very niche Spell not having Concentration (6/7), and 5th Rank finally has decent balance again with only 2 and some actually good Spells that don't use Concentration (2/6). But the real issue is over on poor Warlock, whose 2nd Rank alone is the worst of all since they actually lost a good non-Concentration Spell to leave them with 2 others and the other 5/6 of the list has Concentration (10/12), meaning that they are even more limited in what they can do without Concentration.
I interpret hunters rime basically the opposite of how you did. If you don’t want to use hunters mark, this is a perfect feature for you to use out of combat and just go into your next fight with temp hp. It removes reliance on concentrating on HM
I think Ice knife is completely useless for a ranger due the action economy. It is also weaker than Hail of thorn for a ranger. Besides that, the class has a problem regarding its theme: most os creatures from ice environments are IMMUNE to cold instead of resistant to it. That means the Polar strikes feature will be many times worthless in campaigns such as Rime of Frost maiden. The same applies to Ice Knife, Ice storm and Cone of Code spells. I think a good fix would for the subclass would be: - Armor of Agathys instead of ice knife. - Allow extra used of fortifying soul by spending 3th level spell slots; - Ignore immunity to cold if not at level 3 at level 11 (It is just 1d4/1d6 in the end). - Give the subclass a winter wolf as a mount at level 11 (let me dream!);
Why not: - BOTH armor of Agathys AND ice knife. -I like the extra fortifying soul -I also like this in concept, but I wonder if there's a thematic way to have it do something to cold immune without removing cold immunity. Like... if they're cold immune that 1d4/6 is added to the hit roll instead since you'd still get the damage from original weapon. -Ice Elemental mount that's visually a wolf... or whatever you want it to look like.
Ya, the amount of damage immunity is out there is problematic and seems kind of antiquated. Anyone can punch an incorporeal spirit and only face resistance or less, but every element adjacent monster needs to have immunity to that element, because screw an elemental focused character archetype
@ Regarding having both spells, I think that should a general rule. If we look to paladin subclasses, they all recieve two additional spells of each level. But my concern with Winter Walker is the usability of Ice knife. The spell is a suboptimal choice for rangers. I personally think it is a trap choice.
Adding a Speed reduction (even -15ft) to Hunter’s Rime might push it over the top, as far as making Hunter’s Mark relevant. Seems like chilling a target should limit their movement somehow
I guess they feat the combo of 3rd lvl Ranger, 2nd level Warlock throwing Lance of Lethargy Frostbolts at Hunter's Marked enemies, reducing their speed to 0
I actually think Frozen Haunt is kinda cool since if you upcast hunters mark it’ll last up to 24 hours with a 5th level slot, making this form last longer too
I think it would be good to have ONE ranger subclass who can select/switch (every short rest? Long rest?) benefits associated with a certain clime (arctic, desert, etc). Would make for a stronger subclass and also avoid what feels like a step backward for the ranger…back to the days when a player needs to make choices for their Ranger at the beginning of the campaign based on what kind of biome they’re going to be in. It just further pigeonholes the Ranger and makes them more situational.
What I’d Change: *Frigid Explorer* - Your ability to ignore Cold Resistance is universal, and you gain the ability to change any damage you deal with a spell to Cold damage. At level 15, this lets you ignore enemy Cold Immunity. - Instead of adding 1d4 Cold damage, you inflict a minor curse, subtracting 1d4 from the target’s next Saving Throw. *Hunter’s Rime* - I think I’d get rid of the THP ability; this level should be good enough without it - Your Hunter’s Mark also disables the Dash action *Winter Walker Spells* - New List 3: Bane or Wrathful Smite 5: Rime’s Binding Ice (reprint this, you cowards!) 9: Remove Curse (I actually like that this is here; if I were to replace it, I’d choose Protection from Energy or Slow) 13: Ice Storm 17: Raise Dead *Fortifying Soul* - Make this a Magic action instead of requiring a Short Rest, and let uses of this be restored by expending a spell slot - Could this be straight-up Frightened Immunity, but a shorter duration? *Chilling Retribution* - I don’t know what I’m missing, but this seems bad because of the timing; this feels like a worse version of Hunter’s Multiattack Defense that also prevents an enemy that hits you from moving on to attacking your allies, the latter of which feels useful only when you go down. And you can’t do that because you can’t take the Reaction. This doesn’t even deserve to be limited use. - At least change the timing, but I’m tempted to say scrap this. *Frozen Haunt* - This is great as is.
I dont understand why it deals with frightened, like not just a dabble but half the freatures too. Sure people who hear stories of them felling icy monsters may be scared, but the monsters themselves? Why would they be? And we already have 2 ranger subclasses that thematically implement frightening: the gloomstalker (fairly universal fear of being preyed upon), and fey wanderer (using mind magic to frighten). For thematics, their reaction ability could inflict restrained, as ice crawls up from the point of contact. Its slightly stronger than their frighten (having disadv on dex saves), but how is frightening thematic? You just stabbed me, am I glowering at you to scare you?
Chilling retribution is horribly flawed. It is a reaction when you are hit so will only normally take effect on their turn. They are then frightened and immobile until the end of YOUR turn which will mean that they are free to move again and not frightened either by the time their turn comes around again. That makes it very circumstantial, there is really no point activating this unless they have more attacks this round otherwise you are just burning your reaction to NOT give you a chance of an opportunity attack.
This subclass screams “play close in melee with Cleave mastery” to me. Because the 1d4 damage is once per turn per target, it has a little synergy there. Now you’re playing a STR primary ranger in medium armor, which means CON or WIS will need to suffer. It might also work well as a dip on a fighter for the rider and the THP on hunter’s mark cast, which is not insignificant. I don’t like how the level 15 emanation only deals damage after initial activation at the start of our turns; it seems like it’ll be pretty easy for enemies to avoid the damage by not standing close to you, and you have to use your other class features to lock them down for a measly 2d4 damage reward.
It's close to being super cool. But WotC needs to remove concentration from the hunter's mark altogether since they call it a class feature themselves. Just make it a non-spell feature you can cast a certain number of times per day. And increase the damage scaling earlier so they don't fall off a cliff damage wise after lvl 11ish.
Being centered around Hunters Mark would of actually been amazing if they would of made it not take concentration, and after casting it you can move for free, or on an attack.
@@weirdo1060 and still not worth using once you get higher level spells. It eating your concentration beyond having access to higher level spells makes it not worth casting, even if it doesn't take a spell slot.
Probably the only changes I would make at first glance to really spruce it up would be: 1) ignoring cold resistance is great but I think it should upgrade to ignoring cold immunity at higher levels, probably turning immunity into resistance 2) the targets of its Hunter’s Mark should have their movement speed reduced 3) at higher levels, their strikes should do the extra cold damage on every attack, not just once per turn, it’s a good restriction for third level but isn’t necessary all the way through Great analysis!
Its always weird they take the class thats basically a suravor/hubter and give the damage that most things are heavily immune/resisted too it just never fealt right when it is done
The problem with HM isn't exactly a problem with HM itself but the concentration requirement. I get why they kept it, it makes sense early, but by the time you get third level spells removing concentration from HM is valid.
@@InsightCheck The simplest way to do this is to just move Tireless ot level 13 and Relentless Hunter to level 10 and improve Relentless Hunter to remove Concentration for Hunter's Mark.
I like the capstone being tied to hunters mark, it makes me want to cast it. Yes, the concentration cost is pretty high, but to me thats an issue of hunters mark. Compared to your examples, the other costs arent so bad. Paladin capstones are only 10 minutes to HM's minimum 1 hour without upcasting, and to reuse it costs a 5th level spell slot instead of just a 4th. As for the zealot barbarian capstone, it relies on raging which, without short rests and at max level, means you only have that feature for an hour max. It would take a 17th level barb 6 short rests to regain enough rages to have their capstone last the same amount of time as a ranger using one 4th+ level spellslot (which at the same level they would have 4 slots available), or upcasting the first time with a 3rd level slot to make it last 8 hours, which I forgot to mention with the paladin comparison.
The level 11 feature for Ranger subclasses is usually an offensive feature while the level 15 feature is usually defensive. Wotc should take the Frozen Soul portion of Frozen Haunt and drop it down to level 11 and take Chilling Retribution and move it up to combine with Partially incorporeal at level 15 as an enhancement of the emanation. IC is onto something with Fortifying Soul. Just have the Advantage be used on the next Frightened save you are faced with until the end of the next Long Rest. So, that's only 1 save but at any time during the rest of the day. I think these changes help the design overall.
Idk how i feel about the cold damage focus Thematically fun Mechanically your d4/6 ignoring resistance isn't that much, and does nothing against all the creatures with cold immunity Then getting Cone of cold at level 17 seems silly when i also get conjure volley which is basically cone of cold but better in every way
The only flaw in this subclass is that it has too few features linked to Hunter's Mark. One nice thing about frozen heart tied to HM is that you can upcast HM and have it last all day.
Good video and very informative. I'm kind of wondering why Remove Curse is on their spell list when something like Sleet Storm is right there. I guess they are cautious about adding more Concentration spells to the Ranger to clash with Hunter's Mark.
That was my assumption. Sleet Storm and Fear feel like better fits but as they require concentration, they conflict with HM. Just another example of how the fixation with Hunter’s Mark impacts the design and flavour of the class.
I think they should just lean in hella hard on the hunters mark thing. Flip it all the way around and make it their class resource. But they should also make something like, every time you stop concentrating on hmark you can give someone advantage on their next attack. Just incentivize the use of it and reward the player when they use another spell too.
PF2e Ranger handles its version of Hunters Mark (Hunt Prey) simply, its not a spell and doesnt cost a resource. Boom, done. For me, I just gave them free uses based on Wis modifier and its free against favored enemies.
Even using the Tasha's Favored Foe was better than using hunter's mark, though the concentration on that was annoying. It was too low of damage to be worth concentration too.
It is certainly a class I want to try because it looks fun and I love the Ranger class. I do think it could be a fun subclass away from the winter/arctic environments though.
I really think this subclass feels like a lot of fun. It’s probably my favourite of the 2024 Ranger subs thematically. Really curious to see where they take it.
lvl 3 feature encourages you to drop concentration and use Hunter's Mark again to regain temp hp lvl 15 feature punishes you for dropping concentration on Hunter's Mark.
Despite everything I really like this subclass and it makes hunter’s mark more worth while. Remove curse while yes has nothing to do with the cold, is thematic for a ranger who has to survive a landscape of paranormal activities. And while I don’t think 1d4/1d6 is all that much damage, I don’t think it’s a big deal to me when I have hunter’s mark going and possibly a magic weapon that deals extra damage. Overall, I’m excited to see this class in action
Remove curse is pretty niche, especially when sleet storm is right there. Even bestow curse might be more interesting. Not a fan of the HM features, especially for the last one [HM as in Hunter's mark, because like a pokemon that learns an HM, they're stuck with it] Also bypassing could resistance would be nice if it applied to your ranger spells as well as your attacks. For attacks alone it's kind of a pittance. It's essentially just 1d6 once per turn, if you're concentrating on HM you'd be giving up 1d6 force for 1d6 cold to target a different creature.
I like the ice theme but I really don't like that they are trying to firce me to use Hunter's Mark again. I want to shoot magic arrows not focus on a single individual. Cone of Cold being so late in levels is weird because I am pretty sure the spell isn't that powerful to be locked to level 17. I would also like all of my arrows to deal cold damage that ignores immunity not just resistance.
Yeah, the problem with Ranger subclasses moving forward is going to be the over realiance of the base class in Hunter's Mark, so WOTC is going to continue putting emphasys on it so you can "benefit" from using the spell and it's related features (even though is not always the best past certain levels).
Cool concept, and I like it. I’m always curious why an element theme like this doesn’t have an offensive feature that uses an opposite element, like fire or radiant damage. The defensive buffs vs cold are great, if not obvious, but why not add radiant or fire dmg to attacks instead of cold?
I have a Homebrew that Hunter's Mark doesn't need Concentration at 9th level, and doesn't need an Action at 13th level... still haven't playtested it yet, but it sits more comfortably in my mind...
I moved the 13th level feature to 5th level (rangers are the only class that don't have a ribbon feature alongside Extra Attack), and changed how hunter's mark works to be in line with the Fey Wanderer, where the player can choose to reduce it to 1 minute to negate concentration.
@KevinVideo I'm increasingly of the opinion that if you have a feature that your class/subclass is based around, it should be able to be 'up' all the time. I had one dungeon that was a series of three encounters leading up to the Boss Fight, and my party ended up rushing through all the exploration, not investigating the rooms, and even not getting much into dialog with the final boss, because they wanted to do the fight before the Barbarian's ten minute Rage ran out. Exploration is already the "weakest" part of d&d, having class mechanics that grant combat benefits for rushing it is *bad*. As such, I've increased the duration for class/subclass defining features, so they last "8 hours, or until the end of a Short Rest". That way, you'll have access to them whenever you need them, but may run out if it gets dropped because you're Incapacitated, or something. They're making Hunter's Mark the same way. Yeah, you get lots of free castings, but the class is *designed* such that you should have it available every combat.
For this subclass to be perfect, they should've replaced Pass Without a Trace with Rimme's Binding Ice, everyone already has PWaT prepared, they just didn't do this bc of the Multi Book Keeping bullshit, and Remove Curse is kinda tematic, but still a good choice, it their Emanation was 2d4+Wis it would be so much better, but still I loved this Ranger and really want a Tasha's book for 5.24 which fixes the Ranger, C'mon more than 10 years with this class beeing so poorly designed
wish the spell list gave armor of agathys (would be cool with the hunters mark giving temp hit points and thematically). Fortifying soul is underwhelming and reactive, and a little off brand, i would like it to be something else that locks down enemies, your supposed to be a hunter after all. Dunno, it doesnt do much that a short rest doesnt already.
Ranger's can always hope they do a redesign of Ranger (Quickly, within the year) and remove Hunter's Mark from the "Core" of the class. Otherwise the class is dead in tier 3 and 4. Thankfully not many players make it to this tier in campaign and you can ignore the class in 1-shots.
I wanted to run a campaign for my now ex friend where you could gain subclasses based off stuff you do in the campaign as he liked p o w e r and i thought it was fun. Winter Walker looks like a "curse" you get if you beat a monster like the Winter Wrath from Minecraft Dungeons from that region being eternally c o l d.
@@XanderHarris1023 See but thats the issue, because the class and subclasses are mechanically tied to hunters mark, which its entire existence is to be a single target dpr bump. You'd think the class would be actually good at it. But they're not, and they need help in tier 3/4 which this subclass doesnt actually provide a answer for.
the 3/11 are fine, but the "weapon" part of the "1d4 frost damage once per turn" is so lawlzy, you get cone of cold and icestorm and it doesn't even benefit from your 3rd level feature like... they do this on purpose, they want rangers to be memey bad.
i absolutely hate that ranger has been completly tied in with hunter's mark, the spell is boring, the added bonuses with leveling it are boring, and it saddens me that it is the entirety of the class now.
The biggest problem is the Ranger Class. I've played one shots. Ditching Hunters Mark for other spells is still more powerful even WITH the class features buffing it. Wholly poor design and still they double down with MORE Hunters Mark features. Seriously cannot see ANYONE playing this for a long campaign without multiclassing out after a few frustrating levels in tier 2 when the bad design really shows. Ranger Class works for low level one shots when Hunters Mark is still a good spell. Not worth it for anything else. A one level dip gives you a better Ranger than a full class Ranger. Hate it too. Ranger was my first character and I want to play another one. But I won't play this.
Everything runs off Hunter's Mark because DMs don't run a lot of encounters and players will stack multiple buff spells on the ranger if there is no limiter. People who say this isn't warranted never played 3rd edition or PF1 when EVERY SINGLE CASTER walked around with 3-10 buffs on themselves for their 2 fights a day. I literally had a separate character sheet for my fully buffed up casters back then.
I think hunter's mark focus isn't bad, problem is hunter's mark itself is bad which makes the entire ranger bad. Best Ranger at the momment is the Beast Master, because you use your bonus action to control your pet and never cast hunter's mark. They need to give hunter's mark some quality of life improvements. Namely: - Free cast, casting the spell is a free action. Same for moving the mark to another creature. Now you free up the bonus action to do actual things and allows the ranger to better use said mark that specially at low levels expires on the turn it is cast. - Make the LVL 13 feature come at lvl 6 or so. Ranger's don't have CON proficiency they have a nearly 50% chance to lose the mark on every hit, specially when multi-attack becomes the norm (lvl 5+) they need protection or the hunter's mark lasts a single turn. - Turn the lvl 13 feature into hunter's mark no longuer requiring concentration when cast using your favoured enemy feature. Done all problems with 2024 Ranger are pretty much fixed here. Now Beast Masters can use hunter's mark, and melee hunters don't have to cast it every single turn because of concentration.
sneak attack doesn't compete with other rogue features. Giving a class spell casting and then essentially forcing them use a single spell for your concentration and usually your bonus action is very limiting.
@@MaMastoast Do you feel the same about rage? You can’t concentrate on a spell while you rage. There are plenty of class features that you need to work around.
@@jacobmonroe3899 Rage preventing concentration always has *always* been a consideration when allocating the barbarian's power budget, and has no impact in relation to any of its other base class's abilities. Doubling down on HM for whatever reason is a new development for the ranger, a class that has historically had a variety of great options for their concentration [-in addition to the potential synergy with other caster classes who bring their own uses for concentration]. Rage-barbarian has been well established, "rage"-ranger, not so much
@@elliotbryant3459 I guess I am just not understanding. Do you never run out of slots as a ranger? I can tell you, I do plenty. You can still concentrate on any spell you choose. These are free uses, so when you run out of your spell slots, use hunters mark. You don’t have to give up anything.
@ So many of the class's advancement features only benefit HM. [L1, 13, 17 and 20 from the base class as well as L3 and 15 for this subclass]. So when you're not using HM you lose all these class features until you cast it again. It's like if they gave the paladin free castings of bless but made it so that they need to be concentrating on it for all of their auras and improved divine smite to work.
I just don't get the hunters mark hate. It allows rangers to have increased consistent damage. It allows you to save the spell slots for more things than just combat. Lots of ranger spells no longer require concentration like barkskin. Lastly, it matches a similar feature of a half-caster class with the paladin smites which also trade not having scaling outside of using spell slots.To me, this even adds to the "vibes per round" as even when you don't hit your hunters marks it still has combat utility.
Like I mentioned in the video I don’t really care about whether HM is “good” or not. It’s just that the entire design of the class is telling you that you should be using it because if you don’t, you’re sacrificing features. An amazing vibes per round implementation would have been a subclass dedicated to HM. But baking into the main class implicitly tells a player “this is what you should be doing” even if it isn’t saying that.
It forces you to use your concentration on the spell or miss out on a bunch of class features. There are a bunch of other cool concentration spells, which then are devalued, and you feel bad for using, because you then miss out on the HM only features. Thats bad design. Luckily there's an easy homebew fix to this issue. Just remove concentration from HM when a ranger reaches 6th or 7th lvl.
What’s annoying is that they didn’t fully commit to make HM a core feature to the class like Divine Smite is for the Paladin. I don’t want to have to pick between a lackluster spell that a bunch of class features depend on and more fun concentration spells.
I think the next redesign of Ranger will likely modify Hunter’s Mark itself. Paladins have smite, rangers have hunters mark. I’m guessing they’ll create different types of hunters marks.
@@InsightCheck but that's my point. Druids have 2 wild shape features, fighters have 3 extra attacks features, etc. This is not uncommon for the classes main thing to have 2 features. Yeah they could be different but that seems more like throwing features on a class with no cohesion. Hunter's mark is a core class feature like metamagic for the sorcerer and anyone has access to a version of it via feats. That being said, they both have multiple class features related to it. That's a good design in my opinion rather than a random assortment of unrelated features. Not saying you are wrong it's just that I don't agree.
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I don't know why an extra 1d4/2 damage on average needs to be restricted to once per turn. I'm glad it ignores resistance to cold damage and you still get cold damage. Come on, I think the Ranger can have a d6 damage boost and not have it be limited to once per turn. They desperately need the DPR. I like that Hunter's Mark can actually do something now but the concentration and bonus action transfer still sucks. I don't see what Remove Curse has to do with the cold or frigid or even fear. I would think Fear or Slow would be both superior spells and more thematic. Cone of Cold is a decent blast spell. I like Fortifying Soul. Seems pretty solid. Frozen Soul doesn't seem to go past resistances and I doubt 2d4 is doing much at level 15. At least made it 2d8? Not even half as good as Spirit Guardians? A 3rd level spell? That's rough. Immunity to grapple, prone and restrained are great. Overall, I think this has a lot of promise but needs some bumps.
The 1d4 damage is *not* once per turn. It is once *per target* per turn.
A lot of Ranger's kit seems to be pushing them towards multiple target focus, which is something 5e didn't have previously. It's odd, and I'm not sure if I like it, but they're clearly trying to push Ranger into being the kings of multi-target damage.
@The_Crimson_Witch yeah but it is practically that. Focus fire is more important than ever and so this essentially just becomes a d4 per turn.
The unfortunate thing about Fear and Sleet Storm (which would be better choices) is that they also both require Concentration so it conflicts with Hunter’s Mark lol.
@@InsightCheck you know how I feel about that. "All my homies..." but alas, maybe one day they will finally remove concentration from HM (cope).
@@The_Crimson_Witchunfortunately anti synergistic with hunter's mark
And a class that only has 2 attacks in the base
IC: "We'll start by reading the flavor text; it's actually pretty cool."
Icy what you did there.😂
Haha I made that exact pun like 4 times in this video hoping someone would appreciate it lol. Yours is even better though :P
Why are they so afraid of the ranger being too good? After being "sub-par" since 2014, you'd think they could throw them a true bone. Especially in UA! Let the players love the ranger. Maybe they'll buff afterwards?
I think this subclass is so close to being really great. I think it’s still my favourite we have seen in 2024 but yeah, it just needs a bit of work to get there!
A potential buff to ranger could be that at some level they gain the ability to concentrate on hunter's mark and a 2nd spell at the same time, and if concentration is lost they lose it on both spells. When they get advantage on concentration saves for hunter's mark, this could also apply so if they have conjure animals and hunter's mark, they get advantage on concentration since hunter's mark is involved
An interesting concept. I think a lot of people just think that dropping the concentration requirement for it somewhere in tier 2 makes sense but I like what you’re cooking with.
This may sound crazy: but ignore concentration for HM.
Idc how strong it sounds, it was in the UA and people thought it was too strong despite the class... as a WHOLE... has a bad rep for being bad.
I’ve literally had this exact same thing all the time. I mean let’s just make the ranger the best ‘concentration’ class out there. I mean imagine at level 20 the ranger could somehow concentrate on four spells at once
Personally I think it should specifically be Hunter's Mark and 1 other Ranger Spell, that way you can't go too crazy with it by stacking it with Spells like Hex or Bytopia forbid, 2024 Conjure Minor Elementals, because that can just get way too silly. But just being able to Concentrate or more than 1 Spell at a time would be a massive boon for Rangers since their Spell balance is so heavily warped by having too many overpowered options for Concentration Spells like Spike Growth (especially since they can use Heavy Crossbow Mastery combo on their own) and Conjure Animals (the 2nd most egregious of the new Conjure Spells since it just blows Call Lightning out of the water), making the mistakes of 2014 Ranger not keeping Hunter's Quarry from 4e and instead resurrecting the garbage of Favored Enemy from 3.5 in a worse form to go from a misguided decision into a massive screwup that stills haunts Ranger in 2024 and beyond.
Though in all honesty, I now think that the issue is less Hunter's Mark having Concentration, and instead just how there's just way too many Concentration Spells in general, especially in just the PHB alone. With Ranger, 1st Rank sees just under 1/2 the Spells have Concentration (6/14), 2nd Rank also has just under 1/2 use it but 2 of them are among the most overpowered Spells in a Rank with few truly good Spells (8/18), 3rd Rank finally has a way fewer with just over 1/4 having Concentration and some actually good non-Concentration Spells (5/16), 4th Rank is trash with only 1 very niche Spell not having Concentration (6/7), and 5th Rank finally has decent balance again with only 2 and some actually good Spells that don't use Concentration (2/6). But the real issue is over on poor Warlock, whose 2nd Rank alone is the worst of all since they actually lost a good non-Concentration Spell to leave them with 2 others and the other 5/6 of the list has Concentration (10/12), meaning that they are even more limited in what they can do without Concentration.
@@halozoo2436 That’s my though process to hunters mark plus one other all the way through level 20 for a total of 4 with hunters mark included
I interpret hunters rime basically the opposite of how you did. If you don’t want to use hunters mark, this is a perfect feature for you to use out of combat and just go into your next fight with temp hp. It removes reliance on concentrating on HM
I hate that Hunter's Mark still requires concentration. Which is why it will never require concentration at my table.
I think Ice knife is completely useless for a ranger due the action economy. It is also weaker than Hail of thorn for a ranger. Besides that, the class has a problem regarding its theme: most os creatures from ice environments are IMMUNE to cold instead of resistant to it. That means the Polar strikes feature will be many times worthless in campaigns such as Rime of Frost maiden. The same applies to Ice Knife, Ice storm and Cone of Code spells.
I think a good fix would for the subclass would be:
- Armor of Agathys instead of ice knife.
- Allow extra used of fortifying soul by spending 3th level spell slots;
- Ignore immunity to cold if not at level 3 at level 11 (It is just 1d4/1d6 in the end).
- Give the subclass a winter wolf as a mount at level 11 (let me dream!);
Why not:
- BOTH armor of Agathys AND ice knife.
-I like the extra fortifying soul
-I also like this in concept, but I wonder if there's a thematic way to have it do something to cold immune without removing cold immunity. Like... if they're cold immune that 1d4/6 is added to the hit roll instead since you'd still get the damage from original weapon.
-Ice Elemental mount that's visually a wolf... or whatever you want it to look like.
Ya, the amount of damage immunity is out there is problematic and seems kind of antiquated. Anyone can punch an incorporeal spirit and only face resistance or less, but every element adjacent monster needs to have immunity to that element, because screw an elemental focused character archetype
@ Regarding having both spells, I think that should a general rule. If we look to paladin subclasses, they all recieve two additional spells of each level. But my concern with Winter Walker is the usability of Ice knife. The spell is a suboptimal choice for rangers. I personally think it is a trap choice.
Adding a Speed reduction (even -15ft) to Hunter’s Rime might push it over the top, as far as making Hunter’s Mark relevant. Seems like chilling a target should limit their movement somehow
I was thinking at the very least preventing the use of the dash action in addition to disengage
I guess they feat the combo of 3rd lvl Ranger, 2nd level Warlock throwing Lance of Lethargy Frostbolts at Hunter's Marked enemies, reducing their speed to 0
I actually think Frozen Haunt is kinda cool since if you upcast hunters mark it’ll last up to 24 hours with a 5th level slot, making this form last longer too
Thanks!
I didn’t even know you could do this lol! Thank you :)
I think it would be good to have ONE ranger subclass who can select/switch (every short rest? Long rest?) benefits associated with a certain clime (arctic, desert, etc). Would make for a stronger subclass and also avoid what feels like a step backward for the ranger…back to the days when a player needs to make choices for their Ranger at the beginning of the campaign based on what kind of biome they’re going to be in. It just further pigeonholes the Ranger and makes them more situational.
Even though I really dont want to go after Hunter's Mark again, it competes with too much Ranger exclusive spells over concentration and spell slots.
100%
What I’d Change:
*Frigid Explorer*
- Your ability to ignore Cold Resistance is universal, and you gain the ability to change any damage you deal with a spell to Cold damage. At level 15, this lets you ignore enemy Cold Immunity.
- Instead of adding 1d4 Cold damage, you inflict a minor curse, subtracting 1d4 from the target’s next Saving Throw.
*Hunter’s Rime*
- I think I’d get rid of the THP ability; this level should be good enough without it
- Your Hunter’s Mark also disables the Dash action
*Winter Walker Spells*
- New List
3: Bane or Wrathful Smite
5: Rime’s Binding Ice (reprint this, you cowards!)
9: Remove Curse (I actually like that this is here; if I were to replace it, I’d choose Protection from Energy or Slow)
13: Ice Storm
17: Raise Dead
*Fortifying Soul*
- Make this a Magic action instead of requiring a Short Rest, and let uses of this be restored by expending a spell slot
- Could this be straight-up Frightened Immunity, but a shorter duration?
*Chilling Retribution*
- I don’t know what I’m missing, but this seems bad because of the timing; this feels like a worse version of Hunter’s Multiattack Defense that also prevents an enemy that hits you from moving on to attacking your allies, the latter of which feels useful only when you go down. And you can’t do that because you can’t take the Reaction. This doesn’t even deserve to be limited use.
- At least change the timing, but I’m tempted to say scrap this.
*Frozen Haunt*
- This is great as is.
I dont understand why it deals with frightened, like not just a dabble but half the freatures too. Sure people who hear stories of them felling icy monsters may be scared, but the monsters themselves? Why would they be? And we already have 2 ranger subclasses that thematically implement frightening: the gloomstalker (fairly universal fear of being preyed upon), and fey wanderer (using mind magic to frighten). For thematics, their reaction ability could inflict restrained, as ice crawls up from the point of contact. Its slightly stronger than their frighten (having disadv on dex saves), but how is frightening thematic? You just stabbed me, am I glowering at you to scare you?
Chilling retribution is horribly flawed. It is a reaction when you are hit so will only normally take effect on their turn. They are then frightened and immobile until the end of YOUR turn which will mean that they are free to move again and not frightened either by the time their turn comes around again. That makes it very circumstantial, there is really no point activating this unless they have more attacks this round otherwise you are just burning your reaction to NOT give you a chance of an opportunity attack.
This subclass screams “play close in melee with Cleave mastery” to me. Because the 1d4 damage is once per turn per target, it has a little synergy there.
Now you’re playing a STR primary ranger in medium armor, which means CON or WIS will need to suffer.
It might also work well as a dip on a fighter for the rider and the THP on hunter’s mark cast, which is not insignificant.
I don’t like how the level 15 emanation only deals damage after initial activation at the start of our turns; it seems like it’ll be pretty easy for enemies to avoid the damage by not standing close to you, and you have to use your other class features to lock them down for a measly 2d4 damage reward.
It definitely sounds like that play style would be super fun with this subclass.
The flavor of the class reminds me of the fear and awe the Bree folk hold Strider and the other rangers of the north in the Fellowship of the Ring.
It's close to being super cool. But WotC needs to remove concentration from the hunter's mark altogether since they call it a class feature themselves. Just make it a non-spell feature you can cast a certain number of times per day. And increase the damage scaling earlier so they don't fall off a cliff damage wise after lvl 11ish.
Being centered around Hunters Mark would of actually been amazing if they would of made it not take concentration, and after casting it you can move for free, or on an attack.
It's a free built-in spell for rangers now. Before the 2024 revision, one had to select it over other competing spells for use.
@@weirdo1060 and still not worth using once you get higher level spells. It eating your concentration beyond having access to higher level spells makes it not worth casting, even if it doesn't take a spell slot.
Probably the only changes I would make at first glance to really spruce it up would be:
1) ignoring cold resistance is great but I think it should upgrade to ignoring cold immunity at higher levels, probably turning immunity into resistance
2) the targets of its Hunter’s Mark should have their movement speed reduced
3) at higher levels, their strikes should do the extra cold damage on every attack, not just once per turn, it’s a good restriction for third level but isn’t necessary all the way through
Great analysis!
It seems only natural this subclass should get armor of agathys on their spell list.
Its always weird they take the class thats basically a suravor/hubter and give the damage that most things are heavily immune/resisted too it just never fealt right when it is done
The problem with HM isn't exactly a problem with HM itself but the concentration requirement. I get why they kept it, it makes sense early, but by the time you get third level spells removing concentration from HM is valid.
Yeah I think many feel like the requirement for concentration on HM should just drop entirely somewhere in tier 2 for Rangers.
The concentration is the most critical issue, but the bonus action is also pretty problematic for beast master.
@@InsightCheck The simplest way to do this is to just move Tireless ot level 13 and Relentless Hunter to level 10 and improve Relentless Hunter to remove Concentration for Hunter's Mark.
Great video, IC, glad you could make it this week
Also, take this algorithm, here's your engagement
Hahaha thanks :P
I like the capstone being tied to hunters mark, it makes me want to cast it. Yes, the concentration cost is pretty high, but to me thats an issue of hunters mark. Compared to your examples, the other costs arent so bad. Paladin capstones are only 10 minutes to HM's minimum 1 hour without upcasting, and to reuse it costs a 5th level spell slot instead of just a 4th. As for the zealot barbarian capstone, it relies on raging which, without short rests and at max level, means you only have that feature for an hour max. It would take a 17th level barb 6 short rests to regain enough rages to have their capstone last the same amount of time as a ranger using one 4th+ level spellslot (which at the same level they would have 4 slots available), or upcasting the first time with a 3rd level slot to make it last 8 hours, which I forgot to mention with the paladin comparison.
About hunters time: creatures like goblins, panthers, tigers and such now have disengage build into their actions. I expect more monsters to have it.
I can see it happening for sure based on what we are seeing of new monsters.
Apparently all versions of the vampires have that ability too.
The level 11 feature for Ranger subclasses is usually an offensive feature while the level 15 feature is usually defensive. Wotc should take the Frozen Soul portion of Frozen Haunt and drop it down to level 11 and take Chilling Retribution and move it up to combine with Partially incorporeal at level 15 as an enhancement of the emanation.
IC is onto something with Fortifying Soul. Just have the Advantage be used on the next Frightened save you are faced with until the end of the next Long Rest. So, that's only 1 save but at any time during the rest of the day. I think these changes help the design overall.
Idk how i feel about the cold damage focus
Thematically fun
Mechanically your d4/6 ignoring resistance isn't that much, and does nothing against all the creatures with cold immunity
Then getting Cone of cold at level 17 seems silly when i also get conjure volley which is basically cone of cold but better in every way
i wonder if that could be used with a white/silver dragonborn's breath weapon...
The only flaw in this subclass is that it has too few features linked to Hunter's Mark.
One nice thing about frozen heart tied to HM is that you can upcast HM and have it last all day.
That’s an interesting point. Still not sure I’m into it but a good consideration!
Good video and very informative. I'm kind of wondering why Remove Curse is on their spell list when something like Sleet Storm is right there. I guess they are cautious about adding more Concentration spells to the Ranger to clash with Hunter's Mark.
That was my assumption. Sleet Storm and Fear feel like better fits but as they require concentration, they conflict with HM. Just another example of how the fixation with Hunter’s Mark impacts the design and flavour of the class.
Appreciate the input! That art for the remorhaz is great!
I think they should just lean in hella hard on the hunters mark thing. Flip it all the way around and make it their class resource. But they should also make something like, every time you stop concentrating on hmark you can give someone advantage on their next attack. Just incentivize the use of it and reward the player when they use another spell too.
We made mark the feature of a job specialization and damage boost a feature of the job itself.
PF2e Ranger handles its version of Hunters Mark (Hunt Prey) simply, its not a spell and doesnt cost a resource. Boom, done.
For me, I just gave them free uses based on Wis modifier and its free against favored enemies.
Even using the Tasha's Favored Foe was better than using hunter's mark, though the concentration on that was annoying. It was too low of damage to be worth concentration too.
It is certainly a class I want to try because it looks fun and I love the Ranger class. I do think it could be a fun subclass away from the winter/arctic environments though.
I really think this subclass feels like a lot of fun. It’s probably my favourite of the 2024 Ranger subs thematically. Really curious to see where they take it.
lvl 3 feature encourages you to drop concentration and use Hunter's Mark again to regain temp hp
lvl 15 feature punishes you for dropping concentration on Hunter's Mark.
Despite everything I really like this subclass and it makes hunter’s mark more worth while. Remove curse while yes has nothing to do with the cold, is thematic for a ranger who has to survive a landscape of paranormal activities. And while I don’t think 1d4/1d6 is all that much damage, I don’t think it’s a big deal to me when I have hunter’s mark going and possibly a magic weapon that deals extra damage. Overall, I’m excited to see this class in action
This is probably my favourite Ranger sub for 2024. It really speaks to me.
If you upcast hunters mark, the capstone can last all day. That's actually pretty cool
Haha, get it?
I see what you did there :P
i realy love ranger but the hunters mark restrictions kill it for me, do you have an idea for a homebrew to make ranger actually fun again?
Remove curse is pretty niche, especially when sleet storm is right there. Even bestow curse might be more interesting.
Not a fan of the HM features, especially for the last one [HM as in Hunter's mark, because like a pokemon that learns an HM, they're stuck with it]
Also bypassing could resistance would be nice if it applied to your ranger spells as well as your attacks. For attacks alone it's kind of a pittance. It's essentially just 1d6 once per turn, if you're concentrating on HM you'd be giving up 1d6 force for 1d6 cold to target a different creature.
I like the ice theme but I really don't like that they are trying to firce me to use Hunter's Mark again. I want to shoot magic arrows not focus on a single individual.
Cone of Cold being so late in levels is weird because I am pretty sure the spell isn't that powerful to be locked to level 17. I would also like all of my arrows to deal cold damage that ignores immunity not just resistance.
Yeah, the problem with Ranger subclasses moving forward is going to be the over realiance of the base class in Hunter's Mark, so WOTC is going to continue putting emphasys on it so you can "benefit" from using the spell and it's related features (even though is not always the best past certain levels).
Pretty much this. They’ve just kind of locked themselves into continually doing it over and over.
Cool concept, and I like it. I’m always curious why an element theme like this doesn’t have an offensive feature that uses an opposite element, like fire or radiant damage.
The defensive buffs vs cold are great, if not obvious, but why not add radiant or fire dmg to attacks instead of cold?
I have a Homebrew that Hunter's Mark doesn't need Concentration at 9th level, and doesn't need an Action at 13th level... still haven't playtested it yet, but it sits more comfortably in my mind...
I moved the 13th level feature to 5th level (rangers are the only class that don't have a ribbon feature alongside Extra Attack), and changed how hunter's mark works to be in line with the Fey Wanderer, where the player can choose to reduce it to 1 minute to negate concentration.
@KevinVideo I'm increasingly of the opinion that if you have a feature that your class/subclass is based around, it should be able to be 'up' all the time.
I had one dungeon that was a series of three encounters leading up to the Boss Fight, and my party ended up rushing through all the exploration, not investigating the rooms, and even not getting much into dialog with the final boss, because they wanted to do the fight before the Barbarian's ten minute Rage ran out.
Exploration is already the "weakest" part of d&d, having class mechanics that grant combat benefits for rushing it is *bad*.
As such, I've increased the duration for class/subclass defining features, so they last "8 hours, or until the end of a Short Rest". That way, you'll have access to them whenever you need them, but may run out if it gets dropped because you're Incapacitated, or something.
They're making Hunter's Mark the same way. Yeah, you get lots of free castings, but the class is *designed* such that you should have it available every combat.
For this subclass to be perfect, they should've replaced Pass Without a Trace with Rimme's Binding Ice, everyone already has PWaT prepared, they just didn't do this bc of the Multi Book Keeping bullshit, and Remove Curse is kinda tematic, but still a good choice, it their Emanation was 2d4+Wis it would be so much better, but still I loved this Ranger and really want a Tasha's book for 5.24 which fixes the Ranger, C'mon more than 10 years with this class beeing so poorly designed
wish the spell list gave armor of agathys (would be cool with the hunters mark giving temp hit points and thematically). Fortifying soul is underwhelming and reactive, and a little off brand, i would like it to be something else that locks down enemies, your supposed to be a hunter after all. Dunno, it doesnt do much that a short rest doesnt already.
Ranger's can always hope they do a redesign of Ranger (Quickly, within the year) and remove Hunter's Mark from the "Core" of the class. Otherwise the class is dead in tier 3 and 4. Thankfully not many players make it to this tier in campaign and you can ignore the class in 1-shots.
I wanted to run a campaign for my now ex friend where you could gain subclasses based off stuff you do in the campaign as he liked p o w e r and i thought it was fun.
Winter Walker looks like a "curse" you get if you beat a monster like the Winter Wrath from Minecraft Dungeons from that region being eternally c o l d.
messaging for the algorithm! My intitial thoughts are that the ranger is lacking dpr. But Im keen to see what it you have to say
Counter point. The point of Ranger is not highest dpr. That being said, there are still areas where it could improve.
@@XanderHarris1023 See but thats the issue, because the class and subclasses are mechanically tied to hunters mark, which its entire existence is to be a single target dpr bump. You'd think the class would be actually good at it. But they're not, and they need help in tier 3/4 which this subclass doesnt actually provide a answer for.
the 3/11 are fine, but the "weapon" part of the "1d4 frost damage once per turn" is so lawlzy, you get cone of cold and icestorm and it doesn't even benefit from your 3rd level feature like... they do this on purpose, they want rangers to be memey bad.
I wish we weren't so reliant on hunters mark so much
Same lol
Yay for rangers
Yay indeed haha
Hunters rime is great against goblins.
i absolutely hate that ranger has been completly tied in with hunter's mark, the spell is boring, the added bonuses with leveling it are boring, and it saddens me that it is the entirety of the class now.
Rangers started sucking after first and second edition and never got better.
The biggest problem is the Ranger Class. I've played one shots. Ditching Hunters Mark for other spells is still more powerful even WITH the class features buffing it. Wholly poor design and still they double down with MORE Hunters Mark features. Seriously cannot see ANYONE playing this for a long campaign without multiclassing out after a few frustrating levels in tier 2 when the bad design really shows. Ranger Class works for low level one shots when Hunters Mark is still a good spell. Not worth it for anything else. A one level dip gives you a better Ranger than a full class Ranger. Hate it too. Ranger was my first character and I want to play another one. But I won't play this.
Everything runs off Hunter's Mark because DMs don't run a lot of encounters and players will stack multiple buff spells on the ranger if there is no limiter.
People who say this isn't warranted never played 3rd edition or PF1 when EVERY SINGLE CASTER walked around with 3-10 buffs on themselves for their 2 fights a day. I literally had a separate character sheet for my fully buffed up casters back then.
I think hunter's mark focus isn't bad, problem is hunter's mark itself is bad which makes the entire ranger bad.
Best Ranger at the momment is the Beast Master, because you use your bonus action to control your pet and never cast hunter's mark.
They need to give hunter's mark some quality of life improvements. Namely:
- Free cast, casting the spell is a free action. Same for moving the mark to another creature. Now you free up the bonus action to do actual things and allows the ranger to better use said mark that specially at low levels expires on the turn it is cast.
- Make the LVL 13 feature come at lvl 6 or so. Ranger's don't have CON proficiency they have a nearly 50% chance to lose the mark on every hit, specially when multi-attack becomes the norm (lvl 5+) they need protection or the hunter's mark lasts a single turn.
- Turn the lvl 13 feature into hunter's mark no longuer requiring concentration when cast using your favoured enemy feature.
Done all problems with 2024 Ranger are pretty much fixed here. Now Beast Masters can use hunter's mark, and melee hunters don't have to cast it every single turn because of concentration.
If you decide to stop using sneak attack, you won’t be a very effective rogue either.
sneak attack doesn't compete with other rogue features. Giving a class spell casting and then essentially forcing them use a single spell for your concentration and usually your bonus action is very limiting.
@@MaMastoast Do you feel the same about rage? You can’t concentrate on a spell while you rage. There are plenty of class features that you need to work around.
@@jacobmonroe3899 Rage preventing concentration always has *always* been a consideration when allocating the barbarian's power budget, and has no impact in relation to any of its other base class's abilities. Doubling down on HM for whatever reason is a new development for the ranger, a class that has historically had a variety of great options for their concentration [-in addition to the potential synergy with other caster classes who bring their own uses for concentration]. Rage-barbarian has been well established, "rage"-ranger, not so much
@@elliotbryant3459 I guess I am just not understanding. Do you never run out of slots as a ranger? I can tell you, I do plenty. You can still concentrate on any spell you choose. These are free uses, so when you run out of your spell slots, use hunters mark. You don’t have to give up anything.
@ So many of the class's advancement features only benefit HM. [L1, 13, 17 and 20 from the base class as well as L3 and 15 for this subclass]. So when you're not using HM you lose all these class features until you cast it again.
It's like if they gave the paladin free castings of bless but made it so that they need to be concentrating on it for all of their auras and improved divine smite to work.
Absolutely hate the naming for the paladin. Why couldn't it just be elements???
I just don't get the hunters mark hate. It allows rangers to have increased consistent damage. It allows you to save the spell slots for more things than just combat. Lots of ranger spells no longer require concentration like barkskin. Lastly, it matches a similar feature of a half-caster class with the paladin smites which also trade not having scaling outside of using spell slots.To me, this even adds to the "vibes per round" as even when you don't hit your hunters marks it still has combat utility.
Like I mentioned in the video I don’t really care about whether HM is “good” or not. It’s just that the entire design of the class is telling you that you should be using it because if you don’t, you’re sacrificing features. An amazing vibes per round implementation would have been a subclass dedicated to HM. But baking into the main class implicitly tells a player “this is what you should be doing” even if it isn’t saying that.
It forces you to use your concentration on the spell or miss out on a bunch of class features.
There are a bunch of other cool concentration spells, which then are devalued, and you feel bad for using, because you then miss out on the HM only features. Thats bad design.
Luckily there's an easy homebew fix to this issue. Just remove concentration from HM when a ranger reaches 6th or 7th lvl.
What’s annoying is that they didn’t fully commit to make HM a core feature to the class like Divine Smite is for the Paladin. I don’t want to have to pick between a lackluster spell that a bunch of class features depend on and more fun concentration spells.
I think the next redesign of Ranger will likely modify Hunter’s Mark itself. Paladins have smite, rangers have hunters mark. I’m guessing they’ll create different types of hunters marks.
@@InsightCheck but that's my point. Druids have 2 wild shape features, fighters have 3 extra attacks features, etc. This is not uncommon for the classes main thing to have 2 features. Yeah they could be different but that seems more like throwing features on a class with no cohesion.
Hunter's mark is a core class feature like metamagic for the sorcerer and anyone has access to a version of it via feats. That being said, they both have multiple class features related to it. That's a good design in my opinion rather than a random assortment of unrelated features. Not saying you are wrong it's just that I don't agree.