Another detail that ill probably touch on later is that because there's so much debunk content and so much hate watching between very opposite communities, you WILL end up getting certain folks in your algorithm sometimes even if you're not looking for that content. Ill probably talk about this in the future
Please do that and reflect on your "no one is entitled to a community" take. Expecting people to immediately pick up on nuances that take years of life experiences and education to cultivate and not be willing to help people understand and talk to people where they are at is tribalistic.
@@ThothGrowthI completely stand by my no one is entitled to community take. I think people are thinking I meant ANY community, and what I mean is EVERY community. If you are harmful to a community and don't wanr to get your shit together then you don't belong there and will be excluded. Maybe you can go somewhere else. That's not tribalism thats survivalism.
@@FDSignifire I think you should try to explain the context better because it comes across as you calling leftism broadly, a community when it's part of society. If you mean your specific community, 100% agree. There has to be space at a broader level for these people who end up being manipulated and honestly, groomed by red pill spaces. Dunking and debunking is half the battle. Whether you want to or not, you are an ambassador towards leftist politics, while you aren't entitled to welcome those people into your personal community, I do think you have a responsibility to not brow beat or hate keep them from the overall left. Not trying to be disrespectful, I just think you project personal disdain towards the viewers of that content (I don't blame you for having distaste of them) on your analysis and it comes across as framing leftist points to justify ostracizing them and telling them to pick themselves up by the bootraps. People with no one to turn to will turn to whoever takes them in. If they need to politically align and be educated in all the nuances of systemic injustice before we're allowed to talk to them about social anxiety and loneliness, it's a losing battle. Thanks for reading
"We live in a world where fresh&fit can shit on women all the way to the bank for three years and only get punished for something other than misogyny" is a great phrase to summarize this that hits hard, thank you for putting into words something that had been bugging me but I couldn't really express clearly.
@@fast1nakus I can agree that it shouldn't be illegal, but maybe it shouldn't be so profitable, because I think that many if not most of the influencers under the manosphere are grifters, selling bad takes to a gullible or desperate audience in order to profit. I mean, saying that a partner should fear you in order to respect you is not only an INSANE take, but bad and idiotic advice, so it's wild that those two made bank saying that kind of stuff. And we see them cry on camera when doing and saying insane things hurts their pocket, but no tears are shed when peddling poisonous rhetoric that actually hurts people that believe it. It's kinda funny that all the alpha male bravado went away with the monetization, not gonna lie.
There's a few responses insinuating that certain folks dont hate or have issues with women. They're saying "I was juat looking for how to talk girls" etc. I feel like once you hear "women need to be scared of you" and some of the many awful things that come from red pill spaces, and you stick around... It's because youre ok with those awful things. I dont think anyone could have ever told me those types of things and i wouldn't have immediately recoiled in disgust. If you came for "how to talk to girls" and stayed for "women shouldn't vote"... You're a misogynist.
i dont like fresh and fit and they have terrible advice but if you genueinly think that these people watching them weren't trying to get better w women thats just wrong. also u said if they stick around its cause ur ok with those things, thats also a bad take, some people may think the way they treat women is terrible but they find their advice helpful or vice versa. reason redpill people attract younger men is because the left don't try to talk to men at all. i dont think the argument that they already had these ideas is a bad point people are usually in the middle politically and are pushed to either side based on life experiences like u said in this video that it can be based in their childhood
I agree with their audience one day growing up, but the danger lies in the violence they promote being inflicted onto the public or their(the viewers) domestic partners in private
You made a good point on "misogyny starts at 3 years old". Children see children do, and if we have patriarchy as a default, no bonus points for guessing what children see
Just to add to this, children also learn from imitation. a 5yr old will imitate a 10yr old that wants to imitate a 15yr old and so on. a ton of what we see in the pro-misogyny spaces are people who uses the same critical thinking that would pass as wisdom to someone under 18. One could say that this is the perfect age that all children try to imitate and learn from.
The programming runs so deep, and FD naming it as grooming was so spot on. I've got a 2.5 year old boy and find myself highly aware of how many subtle inferences to gender construct there really are in the most innocent-seeming media. It starts so early, is so normalized, and is presented literally everywhere - even members of my family have begun to reinforce the most trivial things into 'this is what boys do, this is what girls do' type of rhetoric and I find myself fighting an uphill battle. It's nothing I'm not willing to fight against, it's just very eye-opening to see how deep and incessant this is.
@@Solinaru Reminds me of the phrase 'teach children how to think, not what to think' because of exactly what you said. Children are doing their best impressions of whomever they find admirable, that's how they learn and find out who they really are. It's incredibly dark to know that there are many forces out there that know this and capitalize on it.
@@SolinaruThis was a really neat comment. I think the methods of misogyny and patriarchy often get you what you want when you're young, for example talking over female peers or putting them down for instance - because you have more confidence in acting that way due to societal encouragement and reinforcement - in some contexts is a tactic that works when adults arent regulating things, as is the "do x and get y" logic you're taught from every direction with regards to dating, and these things get carried into adulthood or at least harm your thinking and are hard to unlearn.
Trans feminist author Julia Serano talks about the idea of femal/feminine mystification in her book Whipping Girl. It's the idea that not only are men groomed to hate women, but they are groomed to never seek out or understand femininity. Any time a boy tries to do something feminine, he gets put in his place. Has too many friends that are girls? He might be gay. Interested in stuff girls are interested in? Might be gay, def not okay. The problem of growing up in the center of society is that you are discouraged from ever learning anything about the margins. If you're too interested, then that marks you for potential marginalization. Women know a lot about men and masculinity; they have to to survive. Men end up mystified by the opposite sex, to both of their detriment.
Yep! My own brother had a brief redpill period right after his divorce. It took us as a family to continuously check him for him to realize he was just hurt.
Idk man people who talk like that tend to have the same thing repeatedly happen to them. You can't just chalk it all up to "hurt" cause it's convenient. Part of that is our natural survival instinct as well
I remember seeing a video of Jason Wilson on Instagram instructing a young boy in karate, and the boy was crying bc he was frustrated that he couldn’t kick through a board. Jason said something to the effect of “it’s okay to cry, men cry when they want to do better” and I thought that was really powerful. Jason calmly talked the boy through the move, and on the next try, the boy kicked through the board. He was so happy and hugged Jason for helping him, which Jason seemed to gladly reciprocate. As someone who grew up wrestling from the age of 5, and with my dad being the coach of my high school, (a guy who felt he had to display “traditional masculinity”), I often wish that I’d had this approach to learning as a young kid, and seeing that video was heartwarming. As a recent college grad, I plan on coaching my local high school in wrestling, and I want to teach these impressionable boys/men (14-18) some valuable masculinity lessons, lessons that don’t involve the putting down of women (especially bc we have a women’s wrestling team, which is awesome in and of itself).
Wow, that quote is actually so powerful. That actually made me think and feel something as a woman. Him being able to help that young boy and not shame him for his tears is super helpful and may help him as he grows up
It's nice that, as a real man, he can get in touch with some emotion and be strong enough to share his vulnerability. For someone else, it could even be a step in growth.
It's cultivation theory, isn't it? Red pill content doesn't take "normal men" and turn them into raging misogynistic dickwads, it's proliferation simply makes the raging misogynistic dickwad mindset seem more normal and accepted, and thus, those people already predisposed to that mindset feel emboldened to be louder and more open about their beliefs.
you’re right but it’s worth mentioning that the misogyny and patriarchal thinking aren’t all that uncommon in the first place; basically every man is groomed into the mindset by their parents, authority figures, and peers
Not when they start listening as literal boys. These ideas are formative for them- they haven't had a chance to become 'normal men' before these grifters take advantage of them.
@@bumfricker2487 A lot of the stuff Andrew Tate’s fans say though is not normalized. They are definitely pushing the Overton window. Pushing the radical to be more so
not enough people are willing to admit that the source of a lot of bad behavior is not online influence but rather the discourse present in real life. non-online people still have violent misogynistic thoughts because they were primed to have this thinking from patriarchal thinking. i honestly think placing the blame on influencers is just another way of passing off responsibility for bad behavior from educators and adults in society as a whole to this abstract Big Bad. no one wants to admit they uphold patriarchy even in subtle ways. “i don’t say i want to oppress women out loud” doesn’t mean actions/other words don’t show this.
@@afrosamourai400considering the internet is mostly high speed high volume opinions i think it’s fair to say it’ll exacerbate any problem. but the internet does reflect reality to an extent so the pipeline many ppl love talking about does actually start in everyday society, which is what a lot of ppl ignore (bc blaming The Internet Misogynists is easier than admitting patriarchy has a stronghold on humanity)
i'm sorry but how did you come to this conclusion "non-online people still have violent misogynistic thoughts because they were primed to have this thinking from patriarchal thinking". have you spent a second of your life listening to redpill man and trying to understand them, instead of forcing them into an artificial box in your head you have created using your idealogy?
@@Fighting31406 Or the video games, or pen-and-paper RPG's.... If the right and center can have a moral panic or genuine societal reform, that moral panic will light right up.
I don't have children (woman in my 30's) but I have witnessed my relatives with children (men and women) and how they speak to their kids. There's this default rhetoric of the girls having to guard themselves, not put themselves in certain situations (paving the way for future potential victim blaming), that they have to manage and monitor and constantly be on guard for what boys and men "will" do in future. For the boys? "I don't care what he does as long as he doesn't bring it to my door". Direct quote from my sister in law. Like, wtf??? It's either that or really domineering authoritative parenting. When one of the 5 year old boys was running around excitedly playing, his Dad stood over him and shouted at him for a solid two minutes. I'm a grown woman and even I went into fight or flight mode and I really didn't feel safe. It's effed up. If I said anything I would be told to keep out of it, or that I'm too soft. It's normalising abuse and desensitising boys from a very young age, cutting them off from emotional expression and communication and then putting the responsibility for managing this dysfunction onto girls instead of just f*cking doing their jobs as parents.It is disgusting.
I’m probably not your typical viewer. I am a widowed mother of three sons. My oldest is 22 and my twins are 14. I have to stay abreast of the latest awfulness, so I can make sure they are not falling for any of it. So far so good. It’s rough out here. Voices like yours are so important for so many reasons. Thank you.
Late to this video and comment. Trans guy here with a 15 year old son. Staying on top of what is happening out there is really important. Also having ongoing and both specific and general conversations is important. And maybe the most important, making sure your kids have a really diverse "bubble." My son's bubble ranges from me, a hard-core leftist queer parent, to his kickboxing coach who is maybe the most masculine guy you could ever meet who is also seriously anti-toxic masculinity. My son has female friends who have spent considerable time kicking the crap out of him (in a safe and appropriate way while kickboxing) and female STEM teachers that he looks up to. We have little control over the media our kids are exposed to but quite a bit of control over their environments. My son seems to think Tate is a total moron and that physical prowess isn't particularly masculine or feminine because of the adults he admires and communities he is a part of. Not that you aren't doing these things. Just thought I'd mention what I've seen and done that seems to have helped.
That "respect is based on fear" shit, b'god. I've been in a romantic relationship where the threat of physical violence (and eventually the actuality of it) was always present. No, it did no engender in me "respect" for my partner that he had to resort to punching walls and shoving me and destroying my possessions because he was "upset". Each instance of abuse or property destruction just eroded my trust and sense of safety until I had to leave for self protection. People stuck in DV situations don't "respect" their abuser; they learn to shape their lives to appease the abuser until they can find some avenue towards safety. Some never find it, but that doesn't mean they respect or even fear their abuser, so much as pity and resent them and are just waiting them out. Abusers teach their partners to lie and conceal themselves and seek escape, because abusers don't want to be in a relationship with another person with agency, they want a bangmaid to vent their frustrations upon. And they will all eventually end up alone as they deserve to be.
This is the same issue some men have understanding attractiveness , especially in men who are not traditionally attractive. A lot of the time guys believe being an asshole is what attracts women, "the bad boy trope". But that's just 1 attribute, "the bad boy" usually has other features, namely : confidence or what presents as confidence. That can present as being at ease in any space (because you are confident in yourself) not caring about what other people think of them and therefore not taking any crap.
I know right, what a stupid idea people have in terms of respect and fear. They very often do not go hand in hand… I fear a hateful, violent person entering a mall with an AR-15 intending to kill multiple. Do I respect them? Hell the fuck no, they’re scum and have no qualities for me to admire. Contrast that maybe with a benevolent boss or a really cool team leader. Do I fear them? Probably not because they don’t need threats and coercion to get me to listen to them. Do I respect them? Yes because they have authority, but they use that authority wisely and have attributes to them that make me appreciate them, and that make me willing to work with them. Such a childish view people have regarding respect and fear. It only takes a few minutes of even some mild thinking to realize respect isn’t “based in fear”.
It's even nonsense in the most benign scenarios. If I respect my plumber for the quality work they do, does this mean, on some primal level, that I fear my plumber? Wtf?
ngl when me and my friends heard fresh and fit were gone we all let out this collective sarcastic “oh noooo” so i’m happy to receive some coverage of it from someone who knows what they’re talking about
Myron went too far and the demonetization was justified. They still have their free speech. But FnF will be fine, this isn’t their first rodeo. They will come back bigger and better than ever. Would have been better if yt had deplatformed them. Law 15: Crush your enemy totally.
You have helped me so much to not become a bitter, man-hating asshole. There are days where the only way I know there are conscious men out there is tuning in to you and Eliot Sang. Y'all give me hope for the world, and, even though I'm not your "target" audience, I want you to know you have helped me out of some really dark experiences and I appreciate you so much.
sorry to hear what you went through, if its any consolation, as a man, i have had to also work on many aspects of myself that were misogynistic. not all men are assholes, it just happens to be that millions of western men, for some reason, tend to resonate with destructive views about women. times will change of course - but there are always two sides to the coin. i've watched and seen a lot of female content that is misandristic, where they teach women to see men as tools, objects to manipulate. it goes both ways, as long as there is misogynistic content made by men to hate women, there will also be misandristic content made by women to hate men. it's a rather awful cycle that i hope we as humans grow out of. it would be nice to live in a world where gender carries little meaning as to how we ought to treat people, we should just treat people equally and fairly rather than making silly arbitrary rules like (female does this, male does that), it's so silly...
@@ash9259 damn dude, made me tear up. Our journey on this planet be it short or long, we are capable of changing and saying, I was wrong. I commend you and everyone who’s self-correcting and educating themselves further.
Same. I hadn't realized how much hope I'd lost when it came to men on the internet until I ran into dudes like FD Signifier and Noah Samson and, oddly, Ethan Klein and found myself so relieved and comforted to find men online dunking on the BS that had been making me feel so uncomfortable.
@@ash9259i am truly happy to hear of your journey and that of any man in your situation. Stories like this really give me hope and make me less scared about eventually and potentially having a son. That being said, please be careful with the "both sides' argument. While there is a lot of anti -men content on the internet, it rarely translates into real-world violence. Meanwhile, feminicide is on the rise not to mention the judicial attacks on our rights. And i mean globally, not just in Western societies.
Ironically, I went through a slight red pill phase while I was in a relationship, and it took me getting dumped to snap out of it and grow up. Most of these guys will never have an experience like that because they either drive every rational person in their lives away or if they do have this kind of experience, end up blaming women instead.
I really appreciate you being able to acknowledge this phase and taking responsibility for it. I totally see how men can be vulnerable to this content. And it’s only male voices speaking about that, the causes and what it takes to get out that will save men. ❤
@@blammelaThanks! It was mostly the toxic hustle culture stuff and some other things that I realized were really pulling me away from other important things in my life. It's helped me realize that all the money in the world and pursuing an image isn't worth losing what I hold dear.
Fiq you're an educator man... I found your channel during covid and you didnt really convert me nor change me, what you did was better. You helped me and possibly others articulate and understand what we felt but couldn't express correctly. You're also a great masculine reference and model for black men and masculine people. Thank you.
I really appreciate you making the point that these people already had a lot of these thoughts before they got these videos in their feed. Fresh and fit never organically came into my feed, and I predominately saw them through people, making videos, criticizing them, and commenting on their foolishness. When I first saw them, my immediate thought was these are two dudes, who grew up nerds, who started working out, and then started a podcast. Two dudes to were probably rejected through most of their lives who needed to make it about anything other than themselves That’s why they only invite “camera ready” women, who often aren’t well read on the topic they’re discussing. to me that was very very clear so I never really took them seriously but they are fascinating, in that they drew attention to the fact that there are actually a sizeable group of people who agree with that foolish bullshit. But you’re so right to point out that even if that is a decently sized group, it’s still not ultimately very many people.
@cman5116 It helps that they barely had a clue what they were getting into. F&F ran a very specific kind of sideshow, so their extra attractions were chosen very intentionally. It's not inherently nefarious, it's just 'good business' when you're selling fairytale bullshit to the terminally clueless drowning in self pity.
@cman5116 Paying a very specific type of woman to make an appearance on their circus and then pretending that represented anything more than their specific business decisions is still disingenuous as absolute hell. And it's one reason I could never take clowns like them seriously.
I recently reconnected with a red pilled former friend because we both work out at the same gym and his place in his life echoes so many of the things you mention here. Bitter father, recently divorced, Rocky relationship with kids, struggling financially, insecure about appearance (insane because he’s handsome and jacked), boom it’s the feminist’s fault. Trying to ignore those distractions and focus more on building him up and praising both our work towards personal improvement. It’s tough though. Much easier to write someone off and stick to what you know.
Stop trying to help men that don't want to help themselves. If he wants to have that POV, he needs to live with it and see where it takes him (nowhere) before he'll be willing to grow and change. Let him be sad and lonely, he's choosing that.
@@HammerStudioGames nah fuck that sometimes we want to but can't. leaving somebody like that to his own devices isn't going to make anything better, and alienated helpless folk like me who don't have toxic views need somebody to set literally anything up for us because we're not overcoming all these social barriers or crawling out of the pit without help. it's too hard and it hurts too much alone.
@@jhouston206Cause a problem left alone to fester gets worse. Problems cause more problems. Leaving them alone does nothing good, because there are clever people out there who know how to use these people to their advantage.
@@HammerStudioGamesThese POVs can lead you into an early grave, maybe think about that before discouraging others from trying to help. As a friend you have capital that strangers don't and you're likely to be heard if you play your cards right and use the rapport and credibility you have in an empathetic way. I've had to do this with male friends who're doing insane shit. It's shitty but someone has to try.
Thank you for saying this. Seeing their brand of misogyny being “ok’d” until now, when they finally get demonitized but for something else, has been pretty discouraging.
The home field advantage-that’s what I call what conservatives have. They are working with the status quo and trying to maintain it. It is the norm. They have a “home field” advantage.
It also helps that their base waffles between terminally clueless and terminally misinformed, and will often do whatever they can to hold onto whatever advantages they feel like they're owed for whatever reason. Next to zero ability to tell fairytales from reality and a desire to hold on to what they have at all costs can be a pretty nasty combo, and one that's often just as easy to sell to a new crop of suckers just by changing the language or targets just enough.
Thanks for discussing how bigots aren't just innocent victims of evil robots. Making it clear that this bigotry *already exists* is so important. Trans people like myself get told that identity politics is a weapon of the elite to divide us, and that no one *actually* hates trans women, they were just told to by politicians and media. That sanitizes so much of reality and completely neglects the fact that this hatred is real and, like you said, predisposed in the world.
The elite use already existing bigotry to distract people from the real problem. The Holocaust is a great example. Rich people used fascist to stay in Power. Those fascist used jewish people as a scapegoat. Jewish people were called greedy elite, when those greedy elites were simply using jewish people as scapegoats. That worked because the System of capitalism can't function without bigotry. All forms of bigotry are Tools used to benefit Capitalism. Capitalism inherently benefits from Patriarchy, Racism, Queerphobia, and Ableism. One reason for it is that as you already mentioned, a divided working class is easier to exploit. Conservatives will blame immigrants and black people for "taking their jobs" when the people doing them harm is rich people. Western countries exploit foreign countries especially African countries of the earths natural resources, which they've been able to do because of European Colonization. What the people that told you that got wrong, is that they were not radicalised. Our current society is inherently bigoted. those people were not suddenly turned into transphobes/bigots, that happened to them at a very young age. They aren't innocent. Theres a certain amount of blame that can be put on White Supremacy, Colonialism, and Capitalist society. But at the end of the day, people choose to be bigots. I am 14 years old, growing up with right wing parents. They are the Textbook Definition of bigots. Every Single marginalised group you can think of, they hate them. They are the people I have to spend most of my time with, yet I am not a bigot. I have done some shitty things in the past, mostly because of ignorance, but I have grown since then, and my growth isn't over. I went down the alt right pipeline, but not because I hated oppressed groups, it happened because I was manipulated and deliberately missinformed. I used to watch blaire white, and because shes a trans woman, I thought she had credibility. But when I actually researched the people she was slandering, I realised how wrong I was. I was always far left, even before I knew about politics. But going down the alt right pipeline taught me that I should never blindly listen to what anyone on the internet says. Being openminded and curious helped me realise that I'm a trans man, and that I wasn't abnormal for being uncomfortable in my body. I wasn't deradicalized by left tube, I decided to help and educate myself
Exactly. Half the nation didn’t fall for maga bullshit because they were hypnotized into believing it. The people who already had hateful views are the ones who were drawn to the maga world.
What a shitty thing to say to someone already experiencing discrimination. These bigots were told to hate people they didn't even know and they were all like "yay, someone else to blame for all my problems!" As a cis person, making excuses for that behavior would make me an enabler, plain and simple.
Yeah. It’s the most common, and most consistent form of bigotry. Probably because it’s universal, nobody really thinks it’s unusual enough to question it. “Civilization” was literally built at the expense of women. So, basically, misogyny is a pillar of society. Historically, gender was the blueprint for every other kind of prejudice. So, those spaces being a stepping stone to extremism makes perfect sense.
@@tailoredfor831Am not trying to be rude but historians do know how women were treated in society. Read history books they talk about how women were trates back then.
It's good how you used phrases like "don't cry" or "--like a girl" because it shows just how prevalent that way of thinking is and how most people are susceptible. Because of how normalized certain values are, I think the biggest group of people out there are those who don't know they are racist or sexist YET.
true as well ! it started ALLLL BEFORE WE BECAME ADULTS . even me being 20 , the system was already a patriarchy & women & men was already running doing things both wrong to their lengths ! what ISNT right is where the actual content to support these men & women HELPFULLY isn’t actually MAINSTREAM ! its hard for both sides , it juss more dangerous for 1 group of people than it is for for another . its not right for either 💯
That’s pretty much woke people. They claim they are more “enlightened” than the rest of us, but when you actually look at what they say and think it’s pretty racist. I was taken aback when my self proclaimed “woke” roommate said how she really felt about black people, and ever since then I’ve noticed a lot of people don’t actually know they are racist, sexist, etc because they don’t care to look outside their personal bubble, or are parroting what other people tell them to say and think. It’s pretty crazy when you realize how much “free though” is promoted these days, but most people aren’t actually thinking.
You are the most reasonable voice on this topic. Im sick of leftists blaming women the same way right wing men do. I'm more worried about mine and my daughter's reproductive rights than men being lonely....as if women aren't lonely and rejected.
@@JoeMama-gi1soyes they do. just because a man wants to have sex with women does not mean that woman wants to have sex with them. women crave emotional connection, men do too. Sometimes those things are absent for that person. It’s not a gender thing. Everyone gets lonely
@@JoeMama-gi1so who is measuring the damn frequency and also how would you know that? do you have stats or data to back this? loneliness is loneliness. Why are you trying to have a “who gets more lonely contest?” we’re all human and get lonely
The red pill says that all love is transactional, and that you need to be worthy of love. You help friends out of the Red Pill world by showing them unconditional, non-transactional love. Good stuff FD
As someone who has had people in their life who have dealt with alcohol and drug issues, the idea that you won't get help until you choose to seems very analagous to "step one is admitting you have a problem." It also seems that the success of recovery, as with addiction, may well depend on the strength of your support network, which is why so many boys and men who feel that they're all alone have such a hard time even recognizing the problem in the first place, let alone working toward recovery.
Which also begs the question of why men don't genuinely support other men. Most men are very transactional and do not think of helping ANYONE unless they can see a personal benefit. Women are caring and communal. We reach out and take care of each other. Of my best friends got sick and needed a caregiver, I would do it. Men very RARELY take on caregiver roles willingly. How many men do you think would take in and do everything for their homie they claim to love? Very few. And that's an exclusively male problem.
I am a 41yr old CIS black man and I got into both you and Fresh & Fit around the same time in 2019. I still get their clips on my feed on a pretty regular basis, but I haven't watch but maybe 3 full episodes of theirs ever! I realized that they were clowns pretty f*cking quickly and for the life of me can't understand how any male over 25 can buy into that red pill nonsense. I have a good relationship with my mom & grandmother. I have been around my sisters, aunts, and female cousins my whole life!!! I grew up in the NOI were being chauvinistic/misogynistic is an everyday thing and I knew that most of that stuff is B.S. even then!
It’s because you have healthy female relationships so it’s harder to convince you to dehumanize them. Some compartmentalize and want a fantasy partner. That’s why these clowns promote cheating on their partners and all that. They only see some women as human. Some men like the rhetoric because it means that they don’t have to work hard to improve themselves and they can blame women for their shortcomings.
@TheInsiderzone The Nation of Islam, but there are other various Black-American Muslim organizations like the Fruit of Islam (FOI), but I still only got a surface level of understanding towards them.
I fell into the red pill after my wife divorced and cheated on me. I couldn’t live with it and felt like it was my fault. The RP was the only thing besides my mom telling me it wasn’t my fault. Eventually after overdosing on the content i came to realize that there’s no way it HAS to be this way. It’s been 3 years now and I’m newly married again to a wonderful women. I appreciate this video because i still am looking for positive male role models to share with others. This video defines exactly the issue and gives a solution i love it
I agree with your synopsis. I think the same happens with white nationalist and other anti black content. I've never believed the "poor happless white fell down the rabbit hole unawares" narrative. These folks are predisposed.
I will say that finding this channel was so transformative for me as a Black gay man, who prior to your vids ONLY listened to Black women feminist or Black gay male creators. I've shared your content with so many of my Black gay male friends, and we have really enjoyed listening and learning AND, it has made me so much more open to listening to other hetero, cis, critically thinking Black men like Foreign. Each video is really like being back in grad school and reminds me to keep an open mind!
"If I have helped any of you in any way, it's most likely because you at some point...decided to help yourself," you hit the nail right on the head with this video. I went through a "red pill" phase in my late teens/early twenties. Before seeking better personal development resources, which led me to people like Art of Manliness, Jason Wilson, and then You. I have watched clips of Andrew Tate and others occasionally but view them as amateur comedians; I wouldn't take life advice from someone who couldn't even be a professional clown.
Calling Tate a comedian is pretty harmful ngl, it reduces the horrific things he says and does to jokes. They're not jokes. There's no joke in telling boys to violently oppress women. He's a monster and should be viewed as such.
I too used to look at Art of Manliness. I quit after he continued to platform Jack Donovan. I would encourage you to go back and go thru their articles deep in the site and I think youll be really surprised at how toxic that site actually is underneath. Its cleverly disguised but I feel like that site is definetly white supremecists in nature and actually much worse then just that.
@@Jane-oz7pp I understand your point. I will counter by saying comedians have told jokes since the dawn of time at the expense of someone else's feelings. We have existing comedians today that, if you go back and watch their older specials, they'd be "canceled" in today's standards. What Andrew Tate and the larger red pill group say as a whole is despicable, but if you don't take it seriously, or better yet, ignore him, then no harm no foul. He has no power. He isn't like, a Donald Trump. That's more so someone you need to worry about what he says.
I'm in my 20s. I'm young. I should be dreaming of love, but this whole manosphere thing is really putting me in a 24/7 alert state of mind. I had never thought so badly of men until I came across all that cult. It makes me wish I didn't get close to any man. ''If men really are like this, they are no different from beasts and I shouldn't go near them for my own good'', that's the kind of thinking. Every time I come across channels like this and comment sections like the one in this video, I feel like I'm moving a bit away from the dangerous abyss of misandry, in my case a consequence of the manosphere.
Spending less time online consuming that content helps. We sometimes make these pockets of the internet reflections of every man’s belief systems and that’s not true. Also, consuming progressive content will get you exposed to more men who don’t share these thoughts.
@@pisceanbeauty2503 I don't consume that kind of content on a daily basis, just enough to keep me informed. The first time I went in, I heard that it was about men's mental health. I have a father and brothers, 1 eldest (who unfortunately has fallen into that rotten hole) and two little ones, naturally I was interested, and I was disappointed to see that most of it was simply hatred towards women. Although I don't want to, it's important to know, even if it's to avoid this kind of men. And on a rational level I know that not all men are like that, in the same way that I know that all women cannot be judged by the actions of a few. Alarm bells go off with men because no matter how much society has advanced, men still have what allowed them to subjugate everything that was physically weaker. Some are resentful enough to do foolish things. If this shit doesn't stop we're going to see women dying for it.
Same I thought boys/men were cool growing up... funny too . back when I had no phone until I got to see fresh and fit telling us we are hoes like bruh I haven't even tested the waters and already you attacking me.. just because some girl rejected u... this brought so much hatred..it just felt like betrayal until I realize its only certain bozos doing it
If it helps, I'm a man and those clowns are the polar opposite of everything I've both personally held dear and believed about masculinity since I was a literal child. And the same thing goes for every man I've personally known. None of this sideshow bullshit has ever represented anyone I've known personally, and I spent years zigzagging the country and meeting new people almost like it was earning me money. It's definitely good to know that they're out there and what to look for. Like any form of abuse, it typically starts slowly, so it's always a good idea to know what to look for and to know what real red flags would look like. But for your own sake, please don't forget about the internet's natural ability to amplify the worst and the dumbest side of anything. The internet naturally makes things look worse than they generally are, because outrage farming is a great way to make money these days. But it still generally does a terrible job at actually representing reality, especially as most people would understand it. I'm not trying to tell you not to be careful, or even not to vet the shit out of a potential partner. I'd just hate to see someone give up before things really even got started, just because of the internet's natural ability to amplify stupid. It's a great and important idea to be careful, but it probably isn't time to seal yourself away and not take the chance to experience a little of the most interesting facet of ife just yet. Just stay informed and be careful first.
I love that you shouted out the Art of Manliness! I used to go to their content all the time when I was fresh out of high school and trying to figure this whole "being a man" thing out. They offer a ton of great practical advice for everything from fashion to business to day to day lifestyles skills (I deadass learned how to tie a tie from their site) without all the grossness of, say, a Fresh and Fit. I often wonder why I didn't become a red pill weirdo as I fit all the markers we associate with that group in my late teens. I was a socially awkward young man with no dating experience, very passive, chronically online, had experiences being bullied and mistreated by women and girls in my life, and of course, grew up seeing casual misogyny everywhere. I think the main difference makers were my mother and father always encouraging me to talk and share my emotions, getting therapy in college, and finding spaces like The Art of Manliness that were having healthy conversations around traditional masculinity that weren't being overtly toxic to women or being condescending to men (particularly young men, which I was at the time) who were just trying to figure all this shit out.
That’s great. Your on the right path. The teen years and early 20s are difficult for a lot of people. Girls and guys alike. We all have different life experiences and insecurities, even the outwardly beautiful people. It’s just important to be kind.
My friend is a Middle School art teacher. She's been really worried about right wing man-o-sphere influence on her students. She says most of the boys talk way more about Andrew Tate then any other pop culture. My hope is that concerned parents are taking notice and putting pressure on TH-cam.
Yeah every so often my teacher friend has war stories about one of her boys saying inappropriate things to her face. To which she will just immediately dissect why what they have said is wrong. As she wants to get them off the edgy misogynistic humour as soon as possible, as she begins each school year.
I wonder if this is in specific communities as I was in education and my mom and her friends are teachers but they never came across this. Mind you, they deal with mostly black children and as older women who have raised sons way bigger than them know how to put the fear of God and them in young boys early on.
@abrashio how long since your mom and her friends were teaching? This is relatively new. I remember in 2017 my teacher friend chaperoned a middle school dance for Halloween and the kids who dressed up all dressed up as their favorite TH-camr. She had never seen that until that year. Now she said that kids are less open about talking about their favorite TH-camrs because they are actively hiding it from adults but yet their favorite TH-camrs ideology/beliefs come out more in what they say, write and do.
I'm super curious to check out the Art of Manliness folks! I'm not at all bothered by men wanting to be traditionally masculine or women ascribing to conventional femininity if that's what they want and what makes them happy. What bothers me is their apparent lack of interest in promoting their preferred way of being. Instead their real interests seems to be to denigrate those who are different from them. Perhaps I'm naïve, but I feel like it should be easy to say "If you want to be a traditionally masculine man and attract a traditionally feminine woman, here's what you do" while failing to demean us feminist modern women. I even think it's possible to make distinctions and point out why a "traditional" man or woman isn't attracted to certain "modern" behaviors without being disrespectful. But, as Fiq said, that's not what gets views and makes money. After all, Mr. Samuels spent years putting out videos trying to help men by instructing them to dress well and groom themselves to attract women, but only blew up once people caught a clip of him humbling a woman.
If you’ve seen any of KS videos it is very obvious he tries to humiliate women every single time by trying to “prove” to them they are worth less or shouting over them. It’s not a one off video it’s the consistent media of his that made him famous. He’s also said in many videos that he as a “man” is above them (above women) according to the god of the Bible. (Reference to how in Christianity men are placed In hierarchy above women)
@@zandi3426 Yep! Earlier this year I decided to watch all of his content (I do not recommend binging. Spread it out lol!) and saw precisely everything you described here. He was nearly the very definition of misogynistic. He went well past "strongly prejudiced against" and full on hated us. Especially Black women.
I think because their main purpose is to make “all” women available to them. In real life,the real “traditionally feminine women” will not be available to all of them and I think they know that. It’s just a fantasy. So their solution is shaming women who are different to their ideal so the FeMaLEee will “act right”😂. And for a few I think they just like making fun of women. It’s clearly a show. They provide zero solutions for the real issues.
As a martial arts instructor myself I have been greatly influenced by Jason Wilson myself. I think traditional martial arts with this kind of leadership can fill the void of male role models in the mainstream.
As an academic, I am so thrilled about your transparency and dedication to learning . I work in the law and the court has to take a second and third look at many issues . This is so dope!
I appreciate this take brother, and I agree completely. These folks usually just rotate to another platform. Also, bro you know misogyny and racism is entertainment. That’s why bro 😂
I actually don't watch any of that shit, precisely because I don't find misogyny, racism, bigotry, trans phobia, etc entertaining. Not even remotely. Am I really the weird one here?
I liked the message at the end - live well and show people that there's a better way to navigate the world that isn't seeped in misogyny. "Arguing"/"debating"/"logic-ing" someone else out of a position that they've been "groomed into" might not be entirely possible, especially with the layers of social conditioning and just the way "humans be" (biases and all), but if you can put some cracks in the armor (through positivity/etc) - that can lay the foundation for them to break out of this toxicity on their own.
@@deadmanperipherals By the same token, I'm not going to suffer stupid just because someone else made self pity their entire identity. I'm not going to waste time arguing with them, but I'm also not going to waste time acknowledging their existence. Life is just too short to suffer stupid IMO.
@@deadmanperipherals I appreciate the good advice, but I also feel like I should've been more clear (now that I understand your intentions more, it feels like you at least deserve that much). Part of it is that I just don't suffer stupid well. Most of it, though, is that my friends (never a word I use lightly in any context) are an eclectic group of people. Many of whom are kind of kicked at by the world at large for various reasons. We sometimes jokingly and lovingly refer to all of them collectively as the 'island of misfit toys'. Part of my responsibility, as their friend, is providing them a safe space to be who they are. People that get in the way of that or even explicitly threaten people like them are a problem I absolutely will not tolerate. If we're at someone's home and someone starts mouthing off, they're leaving whether they like it or not. It's just not even a question. I just won't let the safety or wellbeing of people I care about be compromised, least of all by some self pitying dork who tried learning all about the real world through the internet. I don't owe those people anything, but I owe those I keep in my sphere the best I can provide.
Red pill is for people who need to do some self reflection. I dipped into it when I was struggling mentally with dating then I saw the material was just hateful and super misogynistic and when I caught that and did the work on myself I got out before getting too deep
Here’s a dark thing about the algorithms… after my messy separation with my severely mentally ill wife, I started getting recommended red pill content on mass. I would’ve been looking up content or googling things trying to understand how we ended up here. Sometimes the algorithm’s are reading vulnerable moments in men’s lives as “he is struggling so therefore this guy will like this.” I watched some of it and didn’t buy in, and eventually started getting recommended other types of videos too like this one, or Richard Reeves, or Robert Reich on the systemic issues behind why life is harder now for many men.
I'm glad to see the findings of the research papers about the 'supply and demand' model of content algorithms is finally being uncovered. I was writing about this in my Ma. in 2020, but as someone with no platform it was like screaming into the void while everyone was still chirping about 'the pipeline' as if the pipeline existed in a void and just sucked in people who weren't already pre-disposed to having those views in the first place.
thank you for this. I have three younger brothers all in their twenties who are good guys but could definitely benefit from therapy yet I'm the only one who goes as they're not open to it/don't think they need it, though I've tried help them and suggested it. It's frustrating doing the work to try undo the damage done by men in my life yet most men around me won't do the same. Don't get me started on my dad. All of them undermine me and my mam and talk to us like we know less than them. If they won't listen to us women it's nice to know they may listen to a guy like you
I actually do deal with the whole “watching/reading things just to feel rage” problem, not with your channel, but just with particular opinions I disagree wkth or dislike about like movies and stuff. I’ve been in therapy for this, and I’m having to learn to trust in the value of my own feelings and opinions
Hey I'm really curious about this. My friends been going through a similar issue. What did you find causes this if you're cool with sharing and what helped?
@@FloatingErgonaut so for me it’s complicated and definitely didn’t happen overnight, and there’s also probably a lot of underlying issues specific to me that led to my situation (years of self-loathing, light emotional abuse, a craving for external validation, etc). So I’m like a huge MCU fan (pretty much always have been) and I tend to get hypersensitive to criticism of it. Like I get super angry when I see some so-called intellectual try to claim that Endgame was trying to say that heroes should just pursue power with no responsibility, Blade was a better martial arts movie than Shang-Chi, it’s all propaganda, the Avengers are just fighting to preserve the status quo and even wanting things to change makes you a villain, etc. it was arguably bad for a while, but twitter in particular turbocharged it. Like I became constantly inundated with “the thing you like is bad” tweets that were often coated in a thick layer of self-righteousness. As far as things I can recommend, if your friend is on twitter, get them off of that hellsite for sure. Limiting other social media may also be helpful. I’m off almost all sites except TH-cam and a limited amount of Facebook per day, you can limit your friend’s access to certain sites if they allow you to using the Screentime feature on iPhones at least. Other than that, I recommend therapy, and positive i statements as long as they don’t bolster like some bigoted belief or something. Have them say out loud things like “my opinion is a valuable treasure,” or “my thoughts are mine and they are valuable and special.” And keep in mind it’s a process, even I’m not completely out of the woods with this one (if you couldn’t already tell), but I’m trying to be better, and the things I said above have been helping a lot. Good luck to you and your friend, and I’ll keep you guys in my prayers!
@@markmerk1296 Thanks for explaining. I don't use twitter for this reason and tell my friend to get off it - it just makes you angrier over time. Twitter has value as a town square, but it isn't a good place to hang out in. I think these companies profit off of negative emotions since they are self reinforcing and have a tendency to make you fixate. I've been telling my friend that the stuff he sees online isn't representative of how people act irl and as he's been socializing more he's been seeing that point. Hell, I think even the people who're insane online aren't necessarily that way irl, humans change a lot based on context. Thanks for sharing! My friend (and me) are also people who've struggled with the issues you mentioned, including varying degrees of abuse, so I get it. I only use youtube now and hang out a lot in comments on free days because it lets me practice putting my thoughts into words. Wish you the best!
As a long-time TH-cam watcher, I can say for a fact that I never watched anything all the way through that I didn't want to watch or at least in which I was interested in the subject matter. The target audience of redpill content isn't as impressionable or unsuspecting as apologists want to believe. Here's the thing: The proliferation of online manosphere content is rooted in its overly simplistic, easily digestible nature that, at its core, largely absolves the viewer/listener from any sort of self-reflection or introspection. The viewer is the virtuous, blameless protagonist (ie the "nice guy") just trying to do their best in life only for their dreams and aspirations to be dashed by the obviously malicious, irredeemable antagonist/scapegoat ("wahmyn"/feminism). It is a seductive and addictive main character syndrome story arc during a time period where every young man has some sort of main character syndrome. It is the same formula that helped Fox infotainment cable channel garner its cultish following. It can be so seductive, addictive, and comforting to be told that someone else is to blame for one's problems, even something as intimate as having sex, because then you don't have to change.
Wow this is the first time ever seeing your channel... And I must say that I am completely floored by your intelligence, emotional intelligence, perspective, and analytical abilities. Because I 100% agree. I actually wanted to introduce your channel to my 3 sons...but was pleasantly surprised (and downright releaved) to find out that they already follow you... Wishing you much success. New subby
I would say your analysis of the radicalization pipeline was authentic to my experience. When I first got on the internet, more than any sort of political content I preferred videos and the like about pop culture. Around the time I got online, the pop culture space was becoming increasingly political. I was served videos both from right wing dipshits like No B.S and the Literature Devil, but I found that to be much less compelling than videos by people like Mother's Basement and Jack Saint, after which I moved rapidly leftward
The algorithm presented you a soft choice by the outcome of your decisions. That's not the pipeline most, even Fiq, expressed. You were predisposed to left wing content, so you chose those and that's where your bubble formed around. Had you been predisposed to preferring right wing content you probably wouldn't be here lol. Hope that explains the process in terms of your experiences.
@@snowmanmanvideoThat is interesting and I think accurate. Mostly true for me. The times I get right wing content it seems a mistake I often ignore on videos unless it's someone reaction to and breakdown of it. But text based info has been different for me in the past. I have been following the development of these reactionary men since there have been blogs that breakdown the written side of the manosphere (red pill, including, MGTOW etc) I have seen and read their early forums and even read terrible places that promote the worst extremes of racism and hatred of all kinds. I of course was never influenced by it but I had wanted to understand and had a voyeuristic curiosity about why they thought the way they did. I do not really do that anymore because I think it was a form of digital self harm lol. I never truly understood a perfect why other than fearing a loss of power in society and losing the ability to easily exploit others creates a rage in these kind of people.
This video is enlightening. I am a older white guy and found this channel a few weeks ago in YT recommended algorithm. I know of F & F from sporadic viewings of H3. I watch that kind of video because I like to laugh and keep up with current social media and what young people are viewing and injesting. Great video. My Mom was the smartest emotional person I knew, she taught me and my siblings how to behave and respect everyone. Thank you for your content.
"No one is a blank slate." I have many reasons to believe this. Thank you for affirming that understanding I have. I will leave it open to change if need be. But I am inclined to agree (for other reasons I don't have the time or faculty to get into now) that we gravitate to what we have some sort of soft preference for or have found some favor with. Good stuff. Now I'll continue watching pass 08:28.
Wow! For the first time in a long time, I found a straight black man who’s got actual statistics, not angry, and not a sexist a$$ whole. 👏🏾 now it’s time to find the karate man too ! Thank you too REAL Men who are in touch
Thank you for pointing out that we've had to do the work to even get here. I took the red pill in high school, but coming out of my enlistment I'm the most progressive I've ever been thanks to older, wiser friends who opened my mind up to views very similar to your own. You are one of those positive male role models.
FD Signifier is one of the most insightful and well spoken TH-cam personalities that I watch. It has taken me many years to get to a place where I am open to these kinds of discussions. A younger me definitely had problems understanding the difficulties that those of different races, gender, and queerness than myself face in everyday life (because there weren't TH-cam videos to explain them in an intelligent and thoughtful way in my day). Although I wasn't actively being racist or misogynistic or homophobic, I could not relate as a lot of these problems as they didn't apply to me (being a sis-het white male). I feel like I have grown a lot in the last decade, and a lot of my understanding of society would be similar, yet far less refined without others (like FD) who are able to express these kinds of conversations in such a succinct way. I'm not saying I'm 100% "woke" or anything, but I feel that even wanting to hear about these concepts and being open to learning new things is the largest part of the battle. Although I agree with FD Signifier that we will gravitate to content that supports our already existing philosophies, I hope he realizes how helpful it is to have someone that expresses the feelings I have in such a honest, complete, and well thought out manner (I assume he does understand, hence why he makes all these great videos). 😁
I had a similar youth, and around the same time as FD. While I don't think I would have fallen down the red pill path based on who I am (although I can't know that for sure), I will say I was bitter and depressed as I couldn't find a girlfriend. I am generally i think a nice person. Even then I did things to help people, and gender didn't matter, and I didn't expect anything in return. But I could never figure out why plenty of girls wanted to be my friend, but were not interested in anything romantic in nature. Eventually I cam to understand in retrospect that the issue was me. I had no self confidence and it showed. It was pretty amazing how in one year I found a job that led to a career and I was really happy with that. It led to me being more confident in myself. At the same time I really got into weightlifting and studied how to train effectively. And while I think the physical changes has less to do with how women saw me than I thought at the time, what it did do was really improve my image of myself. These two things combined, and with being a little older by this point, really changed how I presented myself, and girls took notice of that. Unfortunately there is no set of instructions for everyone on how to become more confident, but once you figure it out, it will change your life.
@@Ava-nf2qq it's profoundly unhelpful to just drop that and book. what's the next sentence? what are we supposed to do with that? i've long since internalized it and I'm just waiting to die because i have no social status or connection.
@@kaiserruhsamwe are all alienated by living in a system where we are compelled to be productive, but also deliberately kept apart by those who take our production like a dairy farmer steals cows tit juice. i've found that human connection *is* possible, face to face, or through interest communities, just by matching the vibes and chillling. don't, like, interrogate people, but do, sometimes, share a thought with a coworker or ask their opinion on some anodyne thing, and just let those words hang in the air. it might feel uncomfortable at first, but then cozy. then, you can volley that back. create little in-jokes! dare to be "scared" of the smallest person there. odds are, everyone you meet feels just as lonely and alienated as you are.
@@tinoesroho doesn't really work like that consistently for neurodivergent people. i'm happy for you, but the people around me are pretty impenetrable and I don't have much means or opportunity to find community locally, but I also can't afford to leave. this is all much bigger than one person making a genuine friend or getting a date of course. i don't think we're abolishing capitalism in my lifetime but I don't see any way for my circumstances to improve under it.
Just want to point out that what you had earlier said about algorithms prioritizing right-wing and prejudiced content over progressive or left-wing content, is actually correct. Different researches in the field of Communication reveal that even on an account without activity, right-wing content is more recommended and becomes more visible. These platforms are not neutral and much that happens on them is not the result of user interactions, but their own bias.
Given how much money there is both in right wing media and outrage farming in general, I absolutely believe it. If you don't count Fox, almost the entirety of right wing media in the US is owned/funded by 3 people. It doesn't matter the specific media, format, message, etc, it's *all* coming from less than a handful of people. And their combined advertising budgets are larger than some countries entire GDP. And with social media specifically, the consumer is the actual product. That makes for a particularly nasty combo IMO.
@@RevShifty When I put in Brie Larson hate is a grift I get all of them cringe videos of her looked crazy photoshopped photos of AOC, Daisy Ridley with red Superman laser beam eyes In literally every video TH-cam is definitely focused on pushing them
You are absolutely correct , a lot of the time people will force toxic people to forefront of social consciousness with negative attention . One of the most powerful thing u can do on the internet is ignore something, i think that has the potential for people to realize this trend and start fighting against it .
Seriously. Ignoring the sideshow bullshit is not only best for your mental wellbeing IMO, but in an era where outrage farming is a very established way of making money it's almost a necessity. Massive numbers of people, businesses, 'gurus', overly branded nobodies, etc are all trying to treat your attention as a commodity that they're all vying for, and sometimes the best thing you can do is agree with them and refuse to give them any of it. I have zero clue who F&F, Tate, or any other manosphere or RP goblin is until I suddenly see them called out on channels like this a few times. Me and them have *very* different understandings of the world and travel in very different circles, so I never have a clue what sideshow is in town or their unique flavor of freakshow until someone from a positive space makes me aware. And that's just the way I like it, personally.
I started watching this video cuz I'm a woman and it's unfortunately rare on the internet to see a man talking like he lives on earth. But goddamn I stayed cuz of the way you roasted them. Thank you for the chuckles too 😂
I don't know if redpill-esque content was a factor, but this guy I was friends with like a decade ago who was one of the friendliest and chillest dudes I knew suddenly started espousing really fucked up stuff about gender, race, immigration, etc in 2015 overnight when he started regularly partaking in hard, experimental, and party drugs. Ironically, he even started saying that addiction is a choice and his word on the matter is law since he had become a pretty severe addict by that point. And he wasn't the only guy I knew whose public persona did a heel turn after they started partying more. At the time it confused the hell out of me but now I realize it was probably just because their inhibitions and self control withered and they didn't care anymore about seeming reasonable and not alienating people.
I remember searching online for dating and other manly advice almost 15 years ago and coming across AoM and Brett's content helped me Big Time. And yeah it's likely that I was more inclined to watch and follow such content that critiqued and was self criticising than affirming. I have a younger brother and we both grew up in the same household and it breaks my heart to know just how different the guy has grown up to be. He's not much into red pill content because he's not terminally online but he's still got a lot of those ideas and values that he's picked up along the way. Heck I even bought a ton of Art Of Manliness merch and my friends all laughed when they saw the books and coasters because it was funny to them that one needs to learn how to be a man. Thank you for helping me understand this. Also I still think Facebook and social media in general are a good reason to blame polarization. People have tendencies and social media scratches that itch good.
Content like Art of Manliness helped me as a teen for sure - it was far superior redpill content. I credit that and new agey manosphere - its a thing, yes, basically imagine hippies who think you can attract women by having more (literal) feminine energies or who think resolving your traumas will make women "subconscioisly" be attracted to you and stuff. The AoM guy seemed to also focus on practical shit like, "Wanna be a man? Here's how to have a conversation" which is exactly the kind of thing manosphere stuff DOESN'T do. I think its a good start but that ultimately it's often too reliant on older ideals of manliness and masculinity - it's very traditional and I think sometimes falls prey to romanticizing the past by failing to criticize it and the individuals it holds up as admirable (like Churchill, for instance) Likewise too much focus on the atomic family, the role of the father, etc. It could do with some reaching out to people with radically different ideas on masculinity. It's still a much better place to go to though and following that advice wouldn't lead to a life of loneliness, which I think means it's doing a good service to humanity.
@@FloatingErgonaut That 'new agey manosphere' has actually been a thing since at least the early 1980s. People have been claiming 'there's a problem with masculinity in this country' for literal decades already. You ever want to throw a conservative manosphere type for a loop, point out how it was literally the first iteration of the MRA scene that coined the term toxic masculinity. They called themselves the New Romantics IIRC, and they attributed society looking down on men showing any sort of emotional depth to the concept of toxic masculinity. There is absolutely nothing new under the sun. Even blaming the falling marriage rate or divorce for why men 'don't have any guidance or role models' is at least 6 decades old by now. The more things change, the more things stay the same.
@@RevShifty That's absolutely fascinating. Yeah, those new agey dudes were kinda helpful. It played a role in getting me away from the manosphere as a whole, honestly. I agree that there's nothing new under the sun! There have been things conservatives spout that I've literally seen mentioned by people 2000 years ago. They honestly do keep coming up with the same shit over and over again hah
@@FloatingErgonaut I'm sorry, I just realized my initial response comes across a whole lot more dismissive than I intended. Conservative complaints and culture warrior nonsense are always the same, regardless of time or place, and they're always absurd. Because the mythical time they all want to return to never actually existed. Not once, ever, at least not like they claim it did. It's just a fantasy to whip the terminally clueless into a frenzy with, and once that starts they'll usually fall for anything. I definitely didn't mean to imply I have anything against anyone looking for positive examples of men or masculinity, so if that's how that sounded I apologize. It's more that society will always have its issues (the nature of very large populations all in one place together), but I think people claiming to have a solution cause far more damage than whatever it is they're claiming is the problem is usually does. Talking about the need or desire for a more complex, nuanced picture of positive manhood is one thing; claiming you have the solutions to all of societies supposed ills through this one absurd fantasy is something else entirely IMO. One I can support and get behind, the pretty needs to be brought out back, shot in the head, and then burned to ash to make sure it doesn't somehow come back. I was lucky growing up. My father was a volunteer firefighter and ambulance tech, on top of working 12+ hours a day. We didn't have a lot to directly do with one another for a lot of my childhood, but I understood he was doing really important things for people in an emergency and I wasn't so selfish that I wanted to rob them of his help. He very clearly and directly showed me what real care, help, and what a real sense of community looked like; it took me many years to process the full value and depth of what that all really meant, but I am the person I am today because I absorbed it all anyway.
It definitely matters. Hurting these people in their pockets is one of the best ways to get at these people. Mess with their money and it’ll make them move to smaller platforms where they won’t get as much reach. I do think youtube should delete their account but I’m cheering that at the very least, their pockets are hurt and now it’s making them ask for money and look even worse than they did before.
That small mention of how the Matrix is actually an allegory for estrogen and the trans experience created by two trans women made me so happy and vindicated. It’s actually crazy how some people will take something and apply a completely wrong interpretation to fit their narrative in current society that completely deviates from the artist’s original intention. Thank you so much for pointing out this stupidity that not enough people have pointed out.
First off they didn't write the matrix they adapted it. And they only force fed that transition crap in the matrix 4 after both transitioned and now everyone is trying to retcon. It's embarrassing brodi don't just believe everything they say
@@TheForkOnTheLeftist I see how it could be retconned and later said to be something different that the original intent, however the alpha male ideology of blue and red pill ideology about society is biased and makes everything more black and white. I don’t mind self hope advice and trying to help younger men in these hard times. I think it becomes a problem when traditional and biased view points about society, gender, and sexual relations become integrated in these talks with people like Jordan Peterson and Hamsa who may on paper be helping younger men feel better but still have a sense of fear mongering and preach “rejecting wokism, feminism” etc. which can also ironically hurt marginalized groups of people while propping up and making younger men more close minded and continue more marginalization. And given your mention of “transition crap”, I get the initial impression that you’re more in line with the red and blue pill idea.
@@charlieblueberg01 nah I'm more in line with "life isn't fair stop complaining and win". I happen to think it's not fair for anyone. Once you accept that, a lot of these conversations become superfluous. I only said transitioning crap to sound more dramatic if I'm being honest. Live and let die as far as I'm concerned with people's personal choices. As long as me and mine aren't forced to indulge, I don't see the issue
Damn I remember AOM from like 10 years ago when it was just a blog. And you know, real talk one of the things I remember noticing and appreciating about it was how relentlessly constructive it was. The author(whose name escapes me all these years later) never inderectly validated negative self concepts, or juxtaposed the ideas he presented against so called (that is, stereotypically)"unmanly" attributes. Really was a treasure tbh, just an honest, earnest seeming dude trying to find ways to maximize his enjoyment of and presence in his life and share what he found with others. Good stuff. I remember hearing you bring up Jason Wilson a few times, I'll have to check him out too.
People need to get familiar with the "do not recommend" feature on youtube. Because I watch relationship content, the red pill stuff sometimes ends up on my feed. As soon as I see it, I move it off. Just because you mentioned redpill, I'm going to see other things that mention redpill.
Throughout the last year and a half, I began to resent the men’s fashion and self improvement community for refusing to speak out against the growing influence of the horrible red pill ideologies and grifters radicalising vulnerable people A lot of content creators from that community have drifted from making men’s fashion, style and grooming content to becoming a red pill oriented and cringy AF hustle bro I have never liked anything that has come out of the manosphere because of the amount of harm they’ve done to the public Great video mate 👍
Because it makes more view. You just need to say submission, career women, modern women, FemalEee, feminist, women hitting the wall, and you content will be filling with men saying Facts and sharing 😂
This does apply to me when i think about it. I wasnt always this far left and effective in the political and social spaces. From the very beginning i wanted to be a good person, i just didnt know how. I grew up in the south surrounded by bootstrap preachers, racists, misogynists, old world nostalgia, and reagan obsessed folks. So my understanding of how to be good was incredibly skewed from the beginning. But i didnt know that, i was using the same tools i was given from the world around me to try and be a good person. Which lead me to unwitting passive racism, classism, and just all around useless person with a sense of superiority. I was a hardline centrist back then. But i guess actively trying to be a good person leads you down a path of education (if its available to you atleast) and years later i end up where i am now. A communist, feminist, anti-racist trying to help other people find their way down the same path i took to be better. I probably never would have got here if i wasnt trying to be good from the beginning. Maybe people dont need to be taught HOW to be good, they actually need to be convinced that being good is a valid option and worth doing.
I definitely had a low point in my life after a breakup. I watched a bit of red-pill stuff, and I did learn some valuable things, emphasis on some, but the clear misogyny eventually turned me off. It was after I stopped consuming those videos I was able to get into a healthy, long term relationship that I'm still currently in
I've mentioned this previously, but had I come across Manosphere material during my junior year of college, I might have become immersed in that sphere. My mental state was quite fragile at that time. It's probably why I saw a lot of young men in the space who reminded me of myself. And I grew disheartened by their internalize belief that they were life "failures" at 19 simply because they had little to no success with women.
I know one of my friend who begin to share their videos to our group friend. I was like bro we are just 22 and you just had a break up. She didn’t leave you because of hypergamy.
You and Jason Wilson are the truth! Thank you!!! I work with a community organization that works on violence prevention. We do our best to try and create an on ramp for men that have no awareness that there even is a different narrative. That is hard to do, slow progress.
I'm a man, who first started volunteering at a DV shelter while still in high school. It definitely shaped a lot about how I view and even handle a lot of different things. More things than most people might think, at least at first. I think that's at least part of why it's so difficult for me to wrap my head around people who went down that road. My father was a volunteer first responder growing up, and I was raised to be a decent human being before anything else. My own experiences with victims of DV cemented that to a degree I don't know if I have the skills to explain, and that was all when I was still a teenager. A whole chunk of the world based around selfishness and being a terrible person has just never once resonated with me. In any fashion. That makes it a lot harder to empathize with than I'm used to.
Dude I won’t through a mgtow phase for like 6 months back in 2017 , and when I actually got to see one of the dudes I used to listen to I realized … wait me and these people are not the same AT ALL .. walked away from BS and never looked back. I’m Embarrassed that I even gave it the time of day but unfortunately, I was super brokenhearted coming out of a really bad relationship and super vulnerable dangerous place to be whilst making life decisions lol
@@Sequoia98 thank you 🙏🏾 actually Yeah that phase of my lasted 6 months the in fact I had to apologize to many of my female friends for the things I was saying during that time. Thank goodness a lot of them knew me long and well enough to know that wasn’t really me and forgave me quickly .
Small correction - very small - but the algorithm also works by "things that a lot of people who watch this content also watch" and it is very aggressive with that. Nothing more "joyful" than watching what is perfectly normal video game related content without a hint of nasty elements and all of the sudden your feed is now sprinkled with transphobic, homophobic, misogynistic and racist content. And heaven help you if you watch any of that content, the algorithm will go "oh yeah you love this stuff here you go down to the most awful garbage imaginable." Yes, it is a damning condemnation of the state of young men that the algorithm even found that link, but its not all "what you are looking for at the moment" and more "and now you get exposed to things that agree with and inflame biases already present."
I actually don't think this point was given nearly enough focus in the video. I don't often get recommended obvious right wing propaganda as video recommendations but what I do get all the dang time is advertisements for right wing groups like Daily Wire, EpochTimes, PragerU or Sean Spicer's whatever as preroll or promoted videos. And I'm just trying to watch competitive Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh vids, anime and game reviews and funny clips from cartoons. This is all little baby level content (that I enjoy, no hate) and I've got Ad Sense turned off to boot but TH-cam is tacitly saying this content is acceptable for the current viewer based on the video being watched. I agree with FD that most folks falling into these spheres are already predisposed and that society as it currently exists on a macro scale is doing most of the priming but TH-cam is normalizing this behavior for literal children like nothing before it. For a lot of kids, social media is their form of escapism from the rest of the world but never before has it been so inundated with right wing propaganda. Used to be if you wanted to get away you had to go to a library and pick out a book, then it was going to movies. Then came television and cartoons which brought along heavy advertisement but typically family friendly variety. All of these forms of entertainment helped to shape children in their formative years into the people they would later become but none of them shoved hateful propaganda in your face if you weren't looking for it. TH-cam does. Point being kids today trying to escape from the society that's trying to indoctrinate them are not going to find a haven on TH-cam and this further normalizes conservative rhetoric during the most crucial points in their development when they have the greatest chance to rebel against it. And I believe this fact is by design.
It's kinda reassuring to know that there's not some nefarious algorithm out there created by sAtAn--that the truth is actually mundane. You are one of my favorite content creators and appreciate everything you do to be a force for good.
damn dude, im thankful that the algo led me to you. not that i’m some “red pilled” individual, but more so because im not. i mostly watch documentaries and think pieces both for and against my ideologies just to keep me in tune with talking points. this channel is refreshing because it allows me to reinforce alot of my beliefs, develop new angles to think in, while also not feel like ppl are talking over me just to look smart. keep doing you dude. your content is important and appreciated!
I think your point about most men growing out of this type of content is relatable. There was a about a year when I was very depressed and started falling down a rabbit hole of Sargon, TL:DR, Amazing Atheist, and the whole "Anti-SJW" crowd. Admittedly, I was already on the left when I got into it. I realized that all this content did was make me angrier and more toxic towards those around me. I had that "nice guy" mentality for a long time. I totally fell for it. If I were in that place today it could have been Fresh and Fit or Tate. Although, I'd like to think that they are too ridiculous even for me at the time.
To be honest due to everything that they’ve done in the past, I don’t think their channels going to get demonetized ever. They broke so many TH-cam guidelines. They’re lucky their channel is still even up.
I hadn't thought about Art of Manliness in years. I used to read through their site ages ago, and looking back, I think it was sort of foundational in getting away from toxic concepts of being a man and probably open to things like this content. Excellent call out and neat to see their still around doing the same thing.
I was very nervous about what you were going to say at the end of the video because while a lot of this stuff is because of people’s own internal biases I was afraid you were going to tell us to cut off those friends. I really appreciate that you didn’t take that route, the message you gave at the end about trying to be supportive and help where you can was really great
That section towards the end where you discuss your own journey out of this headspace is incredibly helpful to hear. I feel like I’m in that position where I can look back and see that I had that worse phase but there’s plenty of unlearning and difficult thoughts ahead to push through. For so long I have felt I was alone in so much, your content and community makes me feel less so.
I was around long before the whole 'incel' thing, but I definitely started going down that path in my teens and twenties. I was fortunate enough to encounter a good group of people online who became my friends, back in the USENET days. They figuratively kicked my ass about the whole "nice guy" thing, provided much better examples of how to be a decent person, and were very supportive when I began questioning my own sexual and gender identity as a result. Without that, I think I would have remained stuck in the misogynist and queer-phobic "religious right" bullshit I was raised in.
20:10 Thank you for pointing this out. I had the same exact experience, and the turning point was when I realized I was not as nice as a person as I gave myself credit for, and it was time to unpack some things, rather than listen to red pill cancer.
Totally agree on the influence of TH-cam allowing channels like “Fresh and Fit” to gain traction. It’s alarming how the algorithm might favor certain views. It’s clear many come to these platforms with set beliefs, and instead of radicalization, they find reinforcement. We need more balanced content. Also, it’s crucial to remember self-improvement starts with intent but systemic change is key.
Real as always. When a man can speak of reaching out and maintaining unconditional love and accepting another man where he is there is hope for all of us. You are loving kind and wise. Respect
The grooming lens is a very helpful framework. Patriarchal grooming existed before the internet, so the logic that the algorithm didn't "make" people bigoted is sound to me. It just feeds into the preexisting conditioning.
Racism didn’t get them demonetized, neither did misogyny; neither did homophobia it was probably that Hizler salute, because there is one group that insulting will result in fast consequences and repercussions. My problem isn’t with them, it’s with a system that overlooks Injustice unless you’re perceived to be powerful enough to hurt them back.
Hearing you name drop AoM felt amazing! When I was deep in my misogyny mindset, that was the site that helped me get over that hangup and figure out so many things. The podcast isn't part of my rotation, but I'm a regular reader of his site, which I'd also suggest people check out!
Men have to set themselves free as the first step. They have to see how they're played, not by other women but by the system they come up in and the impact that other men have on us. We chain ourselves to expectations and chasing things that aren't important to create some shield we think will protect us from scrutiny and insult. We have to learn to recognize this and apply it to our lives, and recognize reactionary behavior, recognize ideas that conflate aggression with strength rather than discipline, self control, and allowing oneself to be vulnerable. When we can learn to apply this to all facets of our lives we will break the chains that bind us.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 84 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องศึก vs เมืองไทย"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3kuzsAIDf1c/mqdefault.jpg)
Another detail that ill probably touch on later is that because there's so much debunk content and so much hate watching between very opposite communities, you WILL end up getting certain folks in your algorithm sometimes even if you're not looking for that content.
Ill probably talk about this in the future
FD, you can take Tate and apply it to Trump and his ilk.
Please do that and reflect on your "no one is entitled to a community" take. Expecting people to immediately pick up on nuances that take years of life experiences and education to cultivate and not be willing to help people understand and talk to people where they are at is tribalistic.
@@ThothGrowthI completely stand by my no one is entitled to community take. I think people are thinking I meant ANY community, and what I mean is EVERY community. If you are harmful to a community and don't wanr to get your shit together then you don't belong there and will be excluded. Maybe you can go somewhere else. That's not tribalism thats survivalism.
@@FDSignifire I think you should try to explain the context better because it comes across as you calling leftism broadly, a community when it's part of society. If you mean your specific community, 100% agree. There has to be space at a broader level for these people who end up being manipulated and honestly, groomed by red pill spaces.
Dunking and debunking is half the battle.
Whether you want to or not, you are an ambassador towards leftist politics, while you aren't entitled to welcome those people into your personal community, I do think you have a responsibility to not brow beat or hate keep them from the overall left.
Not trying to be disrespectful, I just think you project personal disdain towards the viewers of that content (I don't blame you for having distaste of them) on your analysis and it comes across as framing leftist points to justify ostracizing them and telling them to pick themselves up by the bootraps. People with no one to turn to will turn to whoever takes them in. If they need to politically align and be educated in all the nuances of systemic injustice before we're allowed to talk to them about social anxiety and loneliness, it's a losing battle.
Thanks for reading
That’s interesting
"We live in a world where fresh&fit can shit on women all the way to the bank for three years and only get punished for something other than misogyny" is a great phrase to summarize this that hits hard, thank you for putting into words something that had been bugging me but I couldn't really express clearly.
We live in a world where people can shit on men, criminalize their behavior, and make bank on it for generations.
Did they do something wrong?
It's the reason I keep coming back to Fiq's channel. He just casually says the most profound things.
@fast1nakus I mean did they get arrested? Fined by the government? So it's not illegal, and they haven't dealt with any legal ramifications.
@@fast1nakus I can agree that it shouldn't be illegal, but maybe it shouldn't be so profitable, because I think that many if not most of the influencers under the manosphere are grifters, selling bad takes to a gullible or desperate audience in order to profit. I mean, saying that a partner should fear you in order to respect you is not only an INSANE take, but bad and idiotic advice, so it's wild that those two made bank saying that kind of stuff. And we see them cry on camera when doing and saying insane things hurts their pocket, but no tears are shed when peddling poisonous rhetoric that actually hurts people that believe it. It's kinda funny that all the alpha male bravado went away with the monetization, not gonna lie.
There's a few responses insinuating that certain folks dont hate or have issues with women. They're saying "I was juat looking for how to talk girls" etc.
I feel like once you hear "women need to be scared of you" and some of the many awful things that come from red pill spaces, and you stick around... It's because youre ok with those awful things. I dont think anyone could have ever told me those types of things and i wouldn't have immediately recoiled in disgust.
If you came for "how to talk to girls" and stayed for "women shouldn't vote"... You're a misogynist.
i dont like fresh and fit and they have terrible advice but if you genueinly think that these people watching them weren't trying to get better w women thats just wrong.
also u said if they stick around its cause ur ok with those things, thats also a bad take, some people may think the way they treat women is terrible but they find their advice helpful or vice versa. reason redpill people attract younger men is because the left don't try to talk to men at all.
i dont think the argument that they already had these ideas is a bad point people are usually in the middle politically and are pushed to either side based on life experiences like u said in this video that it can be based in their childhood
Spitting nothing but facts
💯💯💯
They might have been trying to get better... But they're still misogynists. Can you please admit this. That's the point of contention here.
I agree with their audience one day growing up, but the danger lies in the violence they promote being inflicted onto the public or their(the viewers) domestic partners in private
You made a good point on "misogyny starts at 3 years old". Children see children do, and if we have patriarchy as a default, no bonus points for guessing what children see
Just to add to this, children also learn from imitation. a 5yr old will imitate a 10yr old that wants to imitate a 15yr old and so on.
a ton of what we see in the pro-misogyny spaces are people who uses the same critical thinking that would pass as wisdom to someone under 18. One could say that this is the perfect age that all children try to imitate and learn from.
The programming runs so deep, and FD naming it as grooming was so spot on. I've got a 2.5 year old boy and find myself highly aware of how many subtle inferences to gender construct there really are in the most innocent-seeming media. It starts so early, is so normalized, and is presented literally everywhere - even members of my family have begun to reinforce the most trivial things into 'this is what boys do, this is what girls do' type of rhetoric and I find myself fighting an uphill battle. It's nothing I'm not willing to fight against, it's just very eye-opening to see how deep and incessant this is.
@@Solinaru Reminds me of the phrase 'teach children how to think, not what to think' because of exactly what you said. Children are doing their best impressions of whomever they find admirable, that's how they learn and find out who they really are. It's incredibly dark to know that there are many forces out there that know this and capitalize on it.
@@SolinaruThis was a really neat comment. I think the methods of misogyny and patriarchy often get you what you want when you're young, for example talking over female peers or putting them down for instance - because you have more confidence in acting that way due to societal encouragement and reinforcement - in some contexts is a tactic that works when adults arent regulating things, as is the "do x and get y" logic you're taught from every direction with regards to dating, and these things get carried into adulthood or at least harm your thinking and are hard to unlearn.
Trans feminist author Julia Serano talks about the idea of femal/feminine mystification in her book Whipping Girl. It's the idea that not only are men groomed to hate women, but they are groomed to never seek out or understand femininity.
Any time a boy tries to do something feminine, he gets put in his place. Has too many friends that are girls? He might be gay. Interested in stuff girls are interested in? Might be gay, def not okay.
The problem of growing up in the center of society is that you are discouraged from ever learning anything about the margins. If you're too interested, then that marks you for potential marginalization. Women know a lot about men and masculinity; they have to to survive. Men end up mystified by the opposite sex, to both of their detriment.
Yep! My own brother had a brief redpill period right after his divorce. It took us as a family to continuously check him for him to realize he was just hurt.
Ya they're just hurt/bitter or incels
Idk man people who talk like that tend to have the same thing repeatedly happen to them. You can't just chalk it all up to "hurt" cause it's convenient. Part of that is our natural survival instinct as well
@@TheForkOnTheLeftistyeah man I think it's more so how you're going about things or where you're looking, you know?
My brother was interested in red pill because his girlfriend at the time broke up with him… he was also hurt 😂😢
@@TheForkOnTheLeftistdoesn’t excuse the kind of behavior exemplified by the fresh and fit podcast or incelsw
I remember seeing a video of Jason Wilson on Instagram instructing a young boy in karate, and the boy was crying bc he was frustrated that he couldn’t kick through a board. Jason said something to the effect of “it’s okay to cry, men cry when they want to do better” and I thought that was really powerful. Jason calmly talked the boy through the move, and on the next try, the boy kicked through the board. He was so happy and hugged Jason for helping him, which Jason seemed to gladly reciprocate. As someone who grew up wrestling from the age of 5, and with my dad being the coach of my high school, (a guy who felt he had to display “traditional masculinity”), I often wish that I’d had this approach to learning as a young kid, and seeing that video was heartwarming. As a recent college grad, I plan on coaching my local high school in wrestling, and I want to teach these impressionable boys/men (14-18) some valuable masculinity lessons, lessons that don’t involve the putting down of women (especially bc we have a women’s wrestling team, which is awesome in and of itself).
Wow, that quote is actually so powerful. That actually made me think and feel something as a woman. Him being able to help that young boy and not shame him for his tears is super helpful and may help him as he grows up
So true. I never shame my son for having emotions, but help him and my daughters world through them, use their words, and communicate effectively.
I love this! And I love you for wanting to be a role model. Men can only be taught these things by men through exposure to men ❤
Thank you for sharing your story with us. I'm very excited for you, you're going to be an excellent coach!
🤦🏽♀️
I ain’t gonna lie, it was funny to watch Myron cry, regardless of how long term the demonetization is
Amen
the way he phrased what he was crying about was so insulting to his audience too
So satisfying.
Aw man me too
It's nice that, as a real man, he can get in touch with some emotion and be strong enough to share his vulnerability. For someone else, it could even be a step in growth.
It's cultivation theory, isn't it? Red pill content doesn't take "normal men" and turn them into raging misogynistic dickwads, it's proliferation simply makes the raging misogynistic dickwad mindset seem more normal and accepted, and thus, those people already predisposed to that mindset feel emboldened to be louder and more open about their beliefs.
Yes it normalises it.
you’re right but it’s worth mentioning that the misogyny and patriarchal thinking aren’t all that uncommon in the first place; basically every man is groomed into the mindset by their parents, authority figures, and peers
Not when they start listening as literal boys. These ideas are formative for them- they haven't had a chance to become 'normal men' before these grifters take advantage of them.
@@bumfricker2487definitely not every man but more than just some men. More than enough for it to be a problem
@@bumfricker2487 A lot of the stuff Andrew Tate’s fans say though is not normalized. They are definitely pushing the Overton window. Pushing the radical to be more so
not enough people are willing to admit that the source of a lot of bad behavior is not online influence but rather the discourse present in real life. non-online people still have violent misogynistic thoughts because they were primed to have this thinking from patriarchal thinking. i honestly think placing the blame on influencers is just another way of passing off responsibility for bad behavior from educators and adults in society as a whole to this abstract Big Bad. no one wants to admit they uphold patriarchy even in subtle ways. “i don’t say i want to oppress women out loud” doesn’t mean actions/other words don’t show this.
True but internet doesn't help
@@afrosamourai400considering the internet is mostly high speed high volume opinions i think it’s fair to say it’ll exacerbate any problem. but the internet does reflect reality to an extent so the pipeline many ppl love talking about does actually start in everyday society, which is what a lot of ppl ignore (bc blaming The Internet Misogynists is easier than admitting patriarchy has a stronghold on humanity)
i'm sorry but how did you come to this conclusion "non-online people still have violent misogynistic thoughts because they were primed to have this thinking from patriarchal thinking". have you spent a second of your life listening to redpill man and trying to understand them, instead of forcing them into an artificial box in your head you have created using your idealogy?
It's almost like the internet has become "blame the music."
@@Fighting31406 Or the video games, or pen-and-paper RPG's.... If the right and center can have a moral panic or genuine societal reform, that moral panic will light right up.
I don't have children (woman in my 30's) but I have witnessed my relatives with children (men and women) and how they speak to their kids. There's this default rhetoric of the girls having to guard themselves, not put themselves in certain situations (paving the way for future potential victim blaming), that they have to manage and monitor and constantly be on guard for what boys and men "will" do in future. For the boys? "I don't care what he does as long as he doesn't bring it to my door". Direct quote from my sister in law. Like, wtf??? It's either that or really domineering authoritative parenting. When one of the 5 year old boys was running around excitedly playing, his Dad stood over him and shouted at him for a solid two minutes. I'm a grown woman and even I went into fight or flight mode and I really didn't feel safe. It's effed up. If I said anything I would be told to keep out of it, or that I'm too soft. It's normalising abuse and desensitising boys from a very young age, cutting them off from emotional expression and communication and then putting the responsibility for managing this dysfunction onto girls instead of just f*cking doing their jobs as parents.It is disgusting.
You need a license to drive a car or own a gun, but not to create a human.
It's a saying " you raise girls to be good wife's but not boys to be good husband's deserving of them."
It takes a village....why don't you ask to watch the kids often so you can help them be well rounded people.
@purpleglitter9596 lmao did you even read their whole post? Reason's in there
I’m probably not your typical viewer. I am a widowed mother of three sons. My oldest is 22 and my twins are 14. I have to stay abreast of the latest awfulness, so I can make sure they are not falling for any of it.
So far so good.
It’s rough out here. Voices like yours are so important for so many reasons.
Thank you.
Late to this video and comment. Trans guy here with a 15 year old son. Staying on top of what is happening out there is really important. Also having ongoing and both specific and general conversations is important. And maybe the most important, making sure your kids have a really diverse "bubble."
My son's bubble ranges from me, a hard-core leftist queer parent, to his kickboxing coach who is maybe the most masculine guy you could ever meet who is also seriously anti-toxic masculinity. My son has female friends who have spent considerable time kicking the crap out of him (in a safe and appropriate way while kickboxing) and female STEM teachers that he looks up to.
We have little control over the media our kids are exposed to but quite a bit of control over their environments. My son seems to think Tate is a total moron and that physical prowess isn't particularly masculine or feminine because of the adults he admires and communities he is a part of.
Not that you aren't doing these things. Just thought I'd mention what I've seen and done that seems to have helped.
That "respect is based on fear" shit, b'god. I've been in a romantic relationship where the threat of physical violence (and eventually the actuality of it) was always present. No, it did no engender in me "respect" for my partner that he had to resort to punching walls and shoving me and destroying my possessions because he was "upset". Each instance of abuse or property destruction just eroded my trust and sense of safety until I had to leave for self protection. People stuck in DV situations don't "respect" their abuser; they learn to shape their lives to appease the abuser until they can find some avenue towards safety. Some never find it, but that doesn't mean they respect or even fear their abuser, so much as pity and resent them and are just waiting them out. Abusers teach their partners to lie and conceal themselves and seek escape, because abusers don't want to be in a relationship with another person with agency, they want a bangmaid to vent their frustrations upon. And they will all eventually end up alone as they deserve to be.
THIS! 👏 👏 👏
This is the same issue some men have understanding attractiveness , especially in men who are not traditionally attractive. A lot of the time guys believe being an asshole is what attracts women, "the bad boy trope". But that's just 1 attribute, "the bad boy" usually has other features, namely : confidence or what presents as confidence. That can present as being at ease in any space (because you are confident in yourself) not caring about what other people think of them and therefore not taking any crap.
Great point and I'm sorry you know it so well. ❤️
I know right, what a stupid idea people have in terms of respect and fear. They very often do not go hand in hand… I fear a hateful, violent person entering a mall with an AR-15 intending to kill multiple. Do I respect them? Hell the fuck no, they’re scum and have no qualities for me to admire. Contrast that maybe with a benevolent boss or a really cool team leader. Do I fear them? Probably not because they don’t need threats and coercion to get me to listen to them. Do I respect them? Yes because they have authority, but they use that authority wisely and have attributes to them that make me appreciate them, and that make me willing to work with them.
Such a childish view people have regarding respect and fear. It only takes a few minutes of even some mild thinking to realize respect isn’t “based in fear”.
It's even nonsense in the most benign scenarios. If I respect my plumber for the quality work they do, does this mean, on some primal level, that I fear my plumber? Wtf?
ngl when me and my friends heard fresh and fit were gone we all let out this collective sarcastic “oh noooo” so i’m happy to receive some coverage of it from someone who knows what they’re talking about
Immediately after had a bunch of rightoids trying to complain about censorship. Had to giggle.
Myron went too far and the demonetization was justified. They still have their free speech. But FnF will be fine, this isn’t their first rodeo. They will come back bigger and better than ever. Would have been better if yt had deplatformed them. Law 15: Crush your enemy totally.
@@rohenry9962I honestly don’t think they’ll come back stronger.
@@munax-pd9tu Idk, time will tell.
When I told my friends they said ''who?''
You have helped me so much to not become a bitter, man-hating asshole. There are days where the only way I know there are conscious men out there is tuning in to you and Eliot Sang. Y'all give me hope for the world, and, even though I'm not your "target" audience, I want you to know you have helped me out of some really dark experiences and I appreciate you so much.
sorry to hear what you went through, if its any consolation, as a man, i have had to also work on many aspects of myself that were misogynistic. not all men are assholes, it just happens to be that millions of western men, for some reason, tend to resonate with destructive views about women. times will change of course - but there are always two sides to the coin.
i've watched and seen a lot of female content that is misandristic, where they teach women to see men as tools, objects to manipulate. it goes both ways, as long as there is misogynistic content made by men to hate women, there will also be misandristic content made by women to hate men. it's a rather awful cycle that i hope we as humans grow out of.
it would be nice to live in a world where gender carries little meaning as to how we ought to treat people, we should just treat people equally and fairly rather than making silly arbitrary rules like (female does this, male does that), it's so silly...
@@ash9259 damn dude, made me tear up. Our journey on this planet be it short or long, we are capable of changing and saying, I was wrong. I commend you and everyone who’s self-correcting and educating themselves further.
@@ash9259I can't believe you just "all lives matter-ed" the misogyny that women face every day. Used misandry nonironically too my god...
Same. I hadn't realized how much hope I'd lost when it came to men on the internet until I ran into dudes like FD Signifier and Noah Samson and, oddly, Ethan Klein and found myself so relieved and comforted to find men online dunking on the BS that had been making me feel so uncomfortable.
@@ash9259i am truly happy to hear of your journey and that of any man in your situation. Stories like this really give me hope and make me less scared about eventually and potentially having a son.
That being said, please be careful with the "both sides' argument. While there is a lot of anti -men content on the internet, it rarely translates into real-world violence. Meanwhile, feminicide is on the rise not to mention the judicial attacks on our rights. And i mean globally, not just in Western societies.
Ironically, I went through a slight red pill phase while I was in a relationship, and it took me getting dumped to snap out of it and grow up. Most of these guys will never have an experience like that because they either drive every rational person in their lives away or if they do have this kind of experience, end up blaming women instead.
I really appreciate you being able to acknowledge this phase and taking responsibility for it.
I totally see how men can be vulnerable to this content. And it’s only male voices speaking about that, the causes and what it takes to get out that will save men. ❤
@@blammelaThanks! It was mostly the toxic hustle culture stuff and some other things that I realized were really pulling me away from other important things in my life. It's helped me realize that all the money in the world and pursuing an image isn't worth losing what I hold dear.
Fiq you're an educator man... I found your channel during covid and you didnt really convert me nor change me, what you did was better.
You helped me and possibly others articulate and understand what we felt but couldn't express correctly. You're also a great masculine reference and model for black men and masculine people. Thank you.
I feel the same way, he helped actually get the words for feelings I always felt but could not articulate.
I really appreciate you making the point that these people already had a lot of these thoughts before they got these videos in their feed. Fresh and fit never organically came into my feed, and I predominately saw them through people, making videos, criticizing them, and commenting on their foolishness. When I first saw them, my immediate thought was these are two dudes, who grew up nerds, who started working out, and then started a podcast. Two dudes to were probably rejected through most of their lives who needed to make it about anything other than themselves
That’s why they only invite “camera ready” women, who often aren’t well read on the topic they’re discussing. to me that was very very clear so I never really took them seriously but they are fascinating, in that they drew attention to the fact that there are actually a sizeable group of people who agree with that foolish bullshit. But you’re so right to point out that even if that is a decently sized group, it’s still not ultimately very many people.
💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗
@cman5116 It helps that they barely had a clue what they were getting into. F&F ran a very specific kind of sideshow, so their extra attractions were chosen very intentionally. It's not inherently nefarious, it's just 'good business' when you're selling fairytale bullshit to the terminally clueless drowning in self pity.
@cman5116 Paying a very specific type of woman to make an appearance on their circus and then pretending that represented anything more than their specific business decisions is still disingenuous as absolute hell. And it's one reason I could never take clowns like them seriously.
@cman5116babe u r embarrassing yourself
@cman5116nah, you’re just misunderstanding her point and that’s fine lol
I recently reconnected with a red pilled former friend because we both work out at the same gym and his place in his life echoes so many of the things you mention here. Bitter father, recently divorced, Rocky relationship with kids, struggling financially, insecure about appearance (insane because he’s handsome and jacked), boom it’s the feminist’s fault. Trying to ignore those distractions and focus more on building him up and praising both our work towards personal improvement. It’s tough though. Much easier to write someone off and stick to what you know.
Stop trying to help men that don't want to help themselves. If he wants to have that POV, he needs to live with it and see where it takes him (nowhere) before he'll be willing to grow and change. Let him be sad and lonely, he's choosing that.
I’m tired on non-douches having to help the dbags with their redemption story. Why does the rest of society have to make up for others’ poor choices?
@@HammerStudioGames nah fuck that sometimes we want to but can't. leaving somebody like that to his own devices isn't going to make anything better, and alienated helpless folk like me who don't have toxic views need somebody to set literally anything up for us because we're not overcoming all these social barriers or crawling out of the pit without help. it's too hard and it hurts too much alone.
@@jhouston206Cause a problem left alone to fester gets worse. Problems cause more problems. Leaving them alone does nothing good, because there are clever people out there who know how to use these people to their advantage.
@@HammerStudioGamesThese POVs can lead you into an early grave, maybe think about that before discouraging others from trying to help. As a friend you have capital that strangers don't and you're likely to be heard if you play your cards right and use the rapport and credibility you have in an empathetic way. I've had to do this with male friends who're doing insane shit. It's shitty but someone has to try.
Thank you for saying this. Seeing their brand of misogyny being “ok’d” until now, when they finally get demonitized but for something else, has been pretty discouraging.
But not really surprising.
they dont hate women. give me one clip or video where he says he hate women (excluding zherka)
This
The home field advantage-that’s what I call what conservatives have. They are working with the status quo and trying to maintain it. It is the norm. They have a “home field” advantage.
It also helps that their base waffles between terminally clueless and terminally misinformed, and will often do whatever they can to hold onto whatever advantages they feel like they're owed for whatever reason. Next to zero ability to tell fairytales from reality and a desire to hold on to what they have at all costs can be a pretty nasty combo, and one that's often just as easy to sell to a new crop of suckers just by changing the language or targets just enough.
You're a real underdog.
Thanks for discussing how bigots aren't just innocent victims of evil robots. Making it clear that this bigotry *already exists* is so important. Trans people like myself get told that identity politics is a weapon of the elite to divide us, and that no one *actually* hates trans women, they were just told to by politicians and media. That sanitizes so much of reality and completely neglects the fact that this hatred is real and, like you said, predisposed in the world.
The elite use already existing bigotry to distract people from the real problem. The Holocaust is a great example. Rich people used fascist to stay in Power. Those fascist used jewish people as a scapegoat. Jewish people were called greedy elite, when those greedy elites were simply using jewish people as scapegoats. That worked because the System of capitalism can't function without bigotry. All forms of bigotry are Tools used to benefit Capitalism. Capitalism inherently benefits from Patriarchy, Racism, Queerphobia, and Ableism. One reason for it is that as you already mentioned, a divided working class is easier to exploit. Conservatives will blame immigrants and black people for "taking their jobs" when the people doing them harm is rich people. Western countries exploit foreign countries especially African countries of the earths natural resources, which they've been able to do because of European Colonization. What the people that told you that got wrong, is that they were not radicalised. Our current society is inherently bigoted. those people were not suddenly turned into transphobes/bigots, that happened to them at a very young age. They aren't innocent. Theres a certain amount of blame that can be put on White Supremacy, Colonialism, and Capitalist society. But at the end of the day, people choose to be bigots. I am 14 years old, growing up with right wing parents. They are the Textbook Definition of bigots. Every Single marginalised group you can think of, they hate them. They are the people I have to spend most of my time with, yet I am not a bigot. I have done some shitty things in the past, mostly because of ignorance, but I have grown since then, and my growth isn't over. I went down the alt right pipeline, but not because I hated oppressed groups, it happened because I was manipulated and deliberately missinformed. I used to watch blaire white, and because shes a trans woman, I thought she had credibility. But when I actually researched the people she was slandering, I realised how wrong I was. I was always far left, even before I knew about politics. But going down the alt right pipeline taught me that I should never blindly listen to what anyone on the internet says. Being openminded and curious helped me realise that I'm a trans man, and that I wasn't abnormal for being uncomfortable in my body. I wasn't deradicalized by left tube, I decided to help and educate myself
Thank you! After the Trump presidency, I quit taking insight from people telling me what not to worry about. 😂
@@LoneWulf278 Damn straight.
Exactly. Half the nation didn’t fall for maga bullshit because they were hypnotized into believing it. The people who already had hateful views are the ones who were drawn to the maga world.
What a shitty thing to say to someone already experiencing discrimination. These bigots were told to hate people they didn't even know and they were all like "yay, someone else to blame for all my problems!" As a cis person, making excuses for that behavior would make me an enabler, plain and simple.
Thank you for stating this so clearly. Misogyny is acceptable discrimination.
Yeah. It’s the most common, and most consistent form of bigotry. Probably because it’s universal, nobody really thinks it’s unusual enough to question it. “Civilization” was literally built at the expense of women. So, basically, misogyny is a pillar of society. Historically, gender was the blueprint for every other kind of prejudice. So, those spaces being a stepping stone to extremism makes perfect sense.
We don't know how past civilizations treated or honored their women so how can you say it was built at the expense of women?
@@tailoredfor831Yes we do??? LOL JUST READ what the hell???
@@tailoredfor831Am not trying to be rude but historians do know how women were treated in society. Read history books they talk about how women were trates back then.
@@mochabearry Lmao 😂
It's good how you used phrases like "don't cry" or "--like a girl" because it shows just how prevalent that way of thinking is and how most people are susceptible. Because of how normalized certain values are, I think the biggest group of people out there are those who don't know they are racist or sexist YET.
true as well ! it started ALLLL BEFORE WE BECAME ADULTS . even me being 20 , the system was already a patriarchy & women & men was already running doing things both wrong to their lengths ! what ISNT right is where the actual content to support these men & women HELPFULLY isn’t actually MAINSTREAM ! its hard for both sides , it juss more dangerous for 1 group of people than it is for for another . its not right for either 💯
That’s pretty much woke people. They claim they are more “enlightened” than the rest of us, but when you actually look at what they say and think it’s pretty racist. I was taken aback when my self proclaimed “woke” roommate said how she really felt about black people, and ever since then I’ve noticed a lot of people don’t actually know they are racist, sexist, etc because they don’t care to look outside their personal bubble, or are parroting what other people tell them to say and think. It’s pretty crazy when you realize how much “free though” is promoted these days, but most people aren’t actually thinking.
@@tiahnarodriguez3809 Wow, the ignorance in this comment.
Do you even know what woke means? Where it came from, while saying this ignorant crap?
You are the most reasonable voice on this topic. Im sick of leftists blaming women the same way right wing men do. I'm more worried about mine and my daughter's reproductive rights than men being lonely....as if women aren't lonely and rejected.
Women don't get lonely lmao
@@JoeMama-gi1soyes they do. just because a man wants to have sex with women does not mean that woman wants to have sex with them. women crave emotional connection, men do too. Sometimes those things are absent for that person. It’s not a gender thing. Everyone gets lonely
@@taylormade9748 woman do not get the same intensity or frequency of male loneliness, it is simply inconceivable for them
@@JoeMama-gi1so who is measuring the damn frequency and also how would you know that? do you have stats or data to back this? loneliness is loneliness. Why are you trying to have a “who gets more lonely contest?” we’re all human and get lonely
Which leftists are blaming women?
The red pill says that all love is transactional, and that you need to be worthy of love. You help friends out of the Red Pill world by showing them unconditional, non-transactional love. Good stuff FD
@cman5116 sorry you feel that way man.
@cman5116dude is preaching fantasy. even God's love is conditional. 😂
@@mafamac4069 it's almost like god was man made.
None of these guys ever heard of hypergamy
@@mafamac4069 When does God ever mention love?
As someone who has had people in their life who have dealt with alcohol and drug issues, the idea that you won't get help until you choose to seems very analagous to "step one is admitting you have a problem." It also seems that the success of recovery, as with addiction, may well depend on the strength of your support network, which is why so many boys and men who feel that they're all alone have such a hard time even recognizing the problem in the first place, let alone working toward recovery.
Which also begs the question of why men don't genuinely support other men. Most men are very transactional and do not think of helping ANYONE unless they can see a personal benefit. Women are caring and communal. We reach out and take care of each other. Of my best friends got sick and needed a caregiver, I would do it. Men very RARELY take on caregiver roles willingly. How many men do you think would take in and do everything for their homie they claim to love? Very few. And that's an exclusively male problem.
I am a 41yr old CIS black man and I got into both you and Fresh & Fit around the same time in 2019. I still get their clips on my feed on a pretty regular basis, but I haven't watch but maybe 3 full episodes of theirs ever! I realized that they were clowns pretty f*cking quickly and for the life of me can't understand how any male over 25 can buy into that red pill nonsense. I have a good relationship with my mom & grandmother. I have been around my sisters, aunts, and female cousins my whole life!!! I grew up in the NOI were being chauvinistic/misogynistic is an everyday thing and I knew that most of that stuff is B.S. even then!
Same here grew up in the NOI and even after leaving over 5 years ago still struggling to deprogram myself from the BS ingrained in me since childhood
It’s because you have healthy female relationships so it’s harder to convince you to dehumanize them. Some compartmentalize and want a fantasy partner. That’s why these clowns promote cheating on their partners and all that. They only see some women as human. Some men like the rhetoric because it means that they don’t have to work hard to improve themselves and they can blame women for their shortcomings.
What is NOI?
@TheInsiderzone The Nation of Islam, but there are other various Black-American Muslim organizations like the Fruit of Islam (FOI), but I still only got a surface level of understanding towards them.
You should be able to click on the little dots and essentially block them from your algorithm if you want them scrubbed
I fell into the red pill after my wife divorced and cheated on me. I couldn’t live with it and felt like it was my fault.
The RP was the only thing besides my mom telling me it wasn’t my fault. Eventually after overdosing on the content i came to realize that there’s no way it HAS to be this way.
It’s been 3 years now and I’m newly married again to a wonderful women. I appreciate this video because i still am looking for positive male role models to share with others.
This video defines exactly the issue and gives a solution i love it
Second marriage divorce rates are worse then the first. Definition of insane
The algorithm doesn’t radicalize, it reinforces. It doesn’t create, it builds upon. It doesn’t make good people bad, it makes bad people worse.
I agree with your synopsis. I think the same happens with white nationalist and other anti black content. I've never believed the "poor happless white fell down the rabbit hole unawares" narrative. These folks are predisposed.
I will say that finding this channel was so transformative for me as a Black gay man, who prior to your vids ONLY listened to Black women feminist or Black gay male creators. I've shared your content with so many of my Black gay male friends, and we have really enjoyed listening and learning AND, it has made me so much more open to listening to other hetero, cis, critically thinking Black men like Foreign. Each video is really like being back in grad school and reminds me to keep an open mind!
"If I have helped any of you in any way, it's most likely because you at some point...decided to help yourself," you hit the nail right on the head with this video. I went through a "red pill" phase in my late teens/early twenties. Before seeking better personal development resources, which led me to people like Art of Manliness, Jason Wilson, and then You. I have watched clips of Andrew Tate and others occasionally but view them as amateur comedians; I wouldn't take life advice from someone who couldn't even be a professional clown.
Calling Tate a comedian is pretty harmful ngl, it reduces the horrific things he says and does to jokes. They're not jokes. There's no joke in telling boys to violently oppress women. He's a monster and should be viewed as such.
Gerbert Johnson is way better
@@Jane-oz7pp
Nah he’s hilarious
I too used to look at Art of Manliness. I quit after he continued to platform Jack Donovan. I would encourage you to go back and go thru their articles deep in the site and I think youll be really surprised at how toxic that site actually is underneath. Its cleverly disguised but I feel like that site is definetly white supremecists in nature and actually much worse then just that.
@@Jane-oz7pp I understand your point. I will counter by saying comedians have told jokes since the dawn of time at the expense of someone else's feelings. We have existing comedians today that, if you go back and watch their older specials, they'd be "canceled" in today's standards. What Andrew Tate and the larger red pill group say as a whole is despicable, but if you don't take it seriously, or better yet, ignore him, then no harm no foul. He has no power. He isn't like, a Donald Trump. That's more so someone you need to worry about what he says.
I'm in my 20s. I'm young. I should be dreaming of love, but this whole manosphere thing is really putting me in a 24/7 alert state of mind. I had never thought so badly of men until I came across all that cult. It makes me wish I didn't get close to any man. ''If men really are like this, they are no different from beasts and I shouldn't go near them for my own good'', that's the kind of thinking. Every time I come across channels like this and comment sections like the one in this video, I feel like I'm moving a bit away from the dangerous abyss of misandry, in my case a consequence of the manosphere.
I felt the same way for a couple of years, moving away from that took some work and time
Spending less time online consuming that content helps. We sometimes make these pockets of the internet reflections of every man’s belief systems and that’s not true. Also, consuming progressive content will get you exposed to more men who don’t share these thoughts.
@@pisceanbeauty2503 I don't consume that kind of content on a daily basis, just enough to keep me informed. The first time I went in, I heard that it was about men's mental health. I have a father and brothers, 1 eldest (who unfortunately has fallen into that rotten hole) and two little ones, naturally I was interested, and I was disappointed to see that most of it was simply hatred towards women. Although I don't want to, it's important to know, even if it's to avoid this kind of men. And on a rational level I know that not all men are like that, in the same way that I know that all women cannot be judged by the actions of a few. Alarm bells go off with men because no matter how much society has advanced, men still have what allowed them to subjugate everything that was physically weaker. Some are resentful enough to do foolish things. If this shit doesn't stop we're going to see women dying for it.
Same I thought boys/men were cool growing up... funny too . back when I had no phone until I got to see fresh and fit telling us we are hoes like bruh I haven't even tested the waters and already you attacking me.. just because some girl rejected u... this brought so much hatred..it just felt like betrayal until I realize its only certain bozos doing it
If it helps, I'm a man and those clowns are the polar opposite of everything I've both personally held dear and believed about masculinity since I was a literal child. And the same thing goes for every man I've personally known. None of this sideshow bullshit has ever represented anyone I've known personally, and I spent years zigzagging the country and meeting new people almost like it was earning me money.
It's definitely good to know that they're out there and what to look for. Like any form of abuse, it typically starts slowly, so it's always a good idea to know what to look for and to know what real red flags would look like. But for your own sake, please don't forget about the internet's natural ability to amplify the worst and the dumbest side of anything. The internet naturally makes things look worse than they generally are, because outrage farming is a great way to make money these days.
But it still generally does a terrible job at actually representing reality, especially as most people would understand it. I'm not trying to tell you not to be careful, or even not to vet the shit out of a potential partner. I'd just hate to see someone give up before things really even got started, just because of the internet's natural ability to amplify stupid. It's a great and important idea to be careful, but it probably isn't time to seal yourself away and not take the chance to experience a little of the most interesting facet of ife just yet. Just stay informed and be careful first.
I love that you shouted out the Art of Manliness! I used to go to their content all the time when I was fresh out of high school and trying to figure this whole "being a man" thing out. They offer a ton of great practical advice for everything from fashion to business to day to day lifestyles skills (I deadass learned how to tie a tie from their site) without all the grossness of, say, a Fresh and Fit.
I often wonder why I didn't become a red pill weirdo as I fit all the markers we associate with that group in my late teens. I was a socially awkward young man with no dating experience, very passive, chronically online, had experiences being bullied and mistreated by women and girls in my life, and of course, grew up seeing casual misogyny everywhere. I think the main difference makers were my mother and father always encouraging me to talk and share my emotions, getting therapy in college, and finding spaces like The Art of Manliness that were having healthy conversations around traditional masculinity that weren't being overtly toxic to women or being condescending to men (particularly young men, which I was at the time) who were just trying to figure all this shit out.
That’s great. Your on the right path. The teen years and early 20s are difficult for a lot of people. Girls and guys alike. We all have different life experiences and insecurities, even the outwardly beautiful people. It’s just important to be kind.
Not gonna lie Myron crying them “high value” tears made my day. 😂😂😂😂
My friend is a Middle School art teacher. She's been really worried about right wing man-o-sphere influence on her students. She says most of the boys talk way more about Andrew Tate then any other pop culture. My hope is that concerned parents are taking notice and putting pressure on TH-cam.
Yeah every so often my teacher friend has war stories about one of her boys saying inappropriate things to her face. To which she will just immediately dissect why what they have said is wrong. As she wants to get them off the edgy misogynistic humour as soon as possible, as she begins each school year.
future incels lol
I wonder if this is in specific communities as I was in education and my mom and her friends are teachers but they never came across this. Mind you, they deal with mostly black children and as older women who have raised sons way bigger than them know how to put the fear of God and them in young boys early on.
@@MoniqueinLAnothing funny about it. They need good male role models in this modern age of high divorce rates and single parenthood
@abrashio how long since your mom and her friends were teaching? This is relatively new. I remember in 2017 my teacher friend chaperoned a middle school dance for Halloween and the kids who dressed up all dressed up as their favorite TH-camr. She had never seen that until that year. Now she said that kids are less open about talking about their favorite TH-camrs because they are actively hiding it from adults but yet their favorite TH-camrs ideology/beliefs come out more in what they say, write and do.
I'm super curious to check out the Art of Manliness folks! I'm not at all bothered by men wanting to be traditionally masculine or women ascribing to conventional femininity if that's what they want and what makes them happy. What bothers me is their apparent lack of interest in promoting their preferred way of being. Instead their real interests seems to be to denigrate those who are different from them. Perhaps I'm naïve, but I feel like it should be easy to say "If you want to be a traditionally masculine man and attract a traditionally feminine woman, here's what you do" while failing to demean us feminist modern women. I even think it's possible to make distinctions and point out why a "traditional" man or woman isn't attracted to certain "modern" behaviors without being disrespectful. But, as Fiq said, that's not what gets views and makes money. After all, Mr. Samuels spent years putting out videos trying to help men by instructing them to dress well and groom themselves to attract women, but only blew up once people caught a clip of him humbling a woman.
If you’ve seen any of KS videos it is very obvious he tries to humiliate women every single time by trying to “prove” to them they are worth less or shouting over them.
It’s not a one off video it’s the consistent media of his that made him famous.
He’s also said in many videos that he as a “man” is above them (above women) according to the god of the Bible. (Reference to how in Christianity men are placed In hierarchy above women)
@@zandi3426 Yep! Earlier this year I decided to watch all of his content (I do not recommend binging. Spread it out lol!) and saw precisely everything you described here. He was nearly the very definition of misogynistic. He went well past "strongly prejudiced against" and full on hated us. Especially Black women.
I think because their main purpose is to make “all” women available to them. In real life,the real “traditionally feminine women” will not be available to all of them and I think they know that. It’s just a fantasy. So their solution is shaming women who are different to their ideal so the FeMaLEee will “act right”😂. And for a few I think they just like making fun of women. It’s clearly a show. They provide zero solutions for the real issues.
As a martial arts instructor myself I have been greatly influenced by Jason Wilson myself. I think traditional martial arts with this kind of leadership can fill the void of male role models in the mainstream.
the glee with which they hated on black women continues to blow my mind.
what a world we live in.
As an academic, I am so thrilled about your transparency and dedication to learning . I work in the law and the court has to take a second and third look at many issues . This is so dope!
I have seen preschool boys police each other’s masculinity, we gotta do our part to equip these kids with the tools to break out of that thinking
I appreciate this take brother, and I agree completely. These folks usually just rotate to another platform. Also, bro you know misogyny and racism is entertainment. That’s why bro 😂
But also use this a way to grift in a different way and steal more wealth from their audience
@@vlogily8043 steal? the audience willingly give it to them
*What exactly do you mean by "misogyny"?*
I actually don't watch any of that shit, precisely because I don't find misogyny, racism, bigotry, trans phobia, etc entertaining. Not even remotely. Am I really the weird one here?
I liked the message at the end - live well and show people that there's a better way to navigate the world that isn't seeped in misogyny. "Arguing"/"debating"/"logic-ing" someone else out of a position that they've been "groomed into" might not be entirely possible, especially with the layers of social conditioning and just the way "humans be" (biases and all), but if you can put some cracks in the armor (through positivity/etc) - that can lay the foundation for them to break out of this toxicity on their own.
@@beowulf_of_wall_st real talk. Fighting immaturity with immaturity just causes more pettiness and resistance.
*What exactly do you mean by "misogyny"?*
@@deadmanperipherals By the same token, I'm not going to suffer stupid just because someone else made self pity their entire identity. I'm not going to waste time arguing with them, but I'm also not going to waste time acknowledging their existence. Life is just too short to suffer stupid IMO.
@@RevShifty aye man do you. Cool thing about life is you can just keep to yourself and be happy in that sense
@@deadmanperipherals I appreciate the good advice, but I also feel like I should've been more clear (now that I understand your intentions more, it feels like you at least deserve that much).
Part of it is that I just don't suffer stupid well. Most of it, though, is that my friends (never a word I use lightly in any context) are an eclectic group of people. Many of whom are kind of kicked at by the world at large for various reasons. We sometimes jokingly and lovingly refer to all of them collectively as the 'island of misfit toys'. Part of my responsibility, as their friend, is providing them a safe space to be who they are. People that get in the way of that or even explicitly threaten people like them are a problem I absolutely will not tolerate. If we're at someone's home and someone starts mouthing off, they're leaving whether they like it or not. It's just not even a question.
I just won't let the safety or wellbeing of people I care about be compromised, least of all by some self pitying dork who tried learning all about the real world through the internet. I don't owe those people anything, but I owe those I keep in my sphere the best I can provide.
Red pill is for people who need to do some self reflection. I dipped into it when I was struggling mentally with dating then I saw the material was just hateful and super misogynistic and when I caught that and did the work on myself I got out before getting too deep
Good for you! I wish you the best ❤
Here’s a dark thing about the algorithms… after my messy separation with my severely mentally ill wife, I started getting recommended red pill content on mass. I would’ve been looking up content or googling things trying to understand how we ended up here. Sometimes the algorithm’s are reading vulnerable moments in men’s lives as “he is struggling so therefore this guy will like this.” I watched some of it and didn’t buy in, and eventually started getting recommended other types of videos too like this one, or Richard Reeves, or Robert Reich on the systemic issues behind why life is harder now for many men.
I'm glad to see the findings of the research papers about the 'supply and demand' model of content algorithms is finally being uncovered. I was writing about this in my Ma. in 2020, but as someone with no platform it was like screaming into the void while everyone was still chirping about 'the pipeline' as if the pipeline existed in a void and just sucked in people who weren't already pre-disposed to having those views in the first place.
thank you for this. I have three younger brothers all in their twenties who are good guys but could definitely benefit from therapy yet I'm the only one who goes as they're not open to it/don't think they need it, though I've tried help them and suggested it. It's frustrating doing the work to try undo the damage done by men in my life yet most men around me won't do the same. Don't get me started on my dad. All of them undermine me and my mam and talk to us like we know less than them. If they won't listen to us women it's nice to know they may listen to a guy like you
I actually do deal with the whole “watching/reading things just to feel rage” problem, not with your channel, but just with particular opinions I disagree wkth or dislike about like movies and stuff. I’ve been in therapy for this, and I’m having to learn to trust in the value of my own feelings and opinions
Hey I'm really curious about this. My friends been going through a similar issue. What did you find causes this if you're cool with sharing and what helped?
@@FloatingErgonaut so for me it’s complicated and definitely didn’t happen overnight, and there’s also probably a lot of underlying issues specific to me that led to my situation (years of self-loathing, light emotional abuse, a craving for external validation, etc). So I’m like a huge MCU fan (pretty much always have been) and I tend to get hypersensitive to criticism of it. Like I get super angry when I see some so-called intellectual try to claim that Endgame was trying to say that heroes should just pursue power with no responsibility, Blade was a better martial arts movie than Shang-Chi, it’s all propaganda, the Avengers are just fighting to preserve the status quo and even wanting things to change makes you a villain, etc. it was arguably bad for a while, but twitter in particular turbocharged it. Like I became constantly inundated with “the thing you like is bad” tweets that were often coated in a thick layer of self-righteousness. As far as things I can recommend, if your friend is on twitter, get them off of that hellsite for sure. Limiting other social media may also be helpful. I’m off almost all sites except TH-cam and a limited amount of Facebook per day, you can limit your friend’s access to certain sites if they allow you to using the Screentime feature on iPhones at least. Other than that, I recommend therapy, and positive i statements as long as they don’t bolster like some bigoted belief or something. Have them say out loud things like “my opinion is a valuable treasure,” or “my thoughts are mine and they are valuable and special.” And keep in mind it’s a process, even I’m not completely out of the woods with this one (if you couldn’t already tell), but I’m trying to be better, and the things I said above have been helping a lot. Good luck to you and your friend, and I’ll keep you guys in my prayers!
@@markmerk1296 Thanks for explaining. I don't use twitter for this reason and tell my friend to get off it - it just makes you angrier over time. Twitter has value as a town square, but it isn't a good place to hang out in. I think these companies profit off of negative emotions since they are self reinforcing and have a tendency to make you fixate.
I've been telling my friend that the stuff he sees online isn't representative of how people act irl and as he's been socializing more he's been seeing that point. Hell, I think even the people who're insane online aren't necessarily that way irl, humans change a lot based on context.
Thanks for sharing! My friend (and me) are also people who've struggled with the issues you mentioned, including varying degrees of abuse, so I get it. I only use youtube now and hang out a lot in comments on free days because it lets me practice putting my thoughts into words.
Wish you the best!
As a long-time TH-cam watcher, I can say for a fact that I never watched anything all the way through that I didn't want to watch or at least in which I was interested in the subject matter. The target audience of redpill content isn't as impressionable or unsuspecting as apologists want to believe.
Here's the thing: The proliferation of online manosphere content is rooted in its overly simplistic, easily digestible nature that, at its core, largely absolves the viewer/listener from any sort of self-reflection or introspection.
The viewer is the virtuous, blameless protagonist (ie the "nice guy") just trying to do their best in life only for their dreams and aspirations to be dashed by the obviously malicious, irredeemable antagonist/scapegoat ("wahmyn"/feminism).
It is a seductive and addictive main character syndrome story arc during a time period where every young man has some sort of main character syndrome. It is the same formula that helped Fox infotainment cable channel garner its cultish following. It can be so seductive, addictive, and comforting to be told that someone else is to blame for one's problems, even something as intimate as having sex, because then you don't have to change.
Wow this is the first time ever seeing your channel... And I must say that I am completely floored by your intelligence, emotional intelligence, perspective, and analytical abilities. Because I 100% agree. I actually wanted to introduce your channel to my 3 sons...but was pleasantly surprised (and downright releaved) to find out that they already follow you...
Wishing you much success. New subby
I would say your analysis of the radicalization pipeline was authentic to my experience. When I first got on the internet, more than any sort of political content I preferred videos and the like about pop culture. Around the time I got online, the pop culture space was becoming increasingly political. I was served videos both from right wing dipshits like No B.S and the Literature Devil, but I found that to be much less compelling than videos by people like Mother's Basement and Jack Saint, after which I moved rapidly leftward
The algorithm presented you a soft choice by the outcome of your decisions. That's not the pipeline most, even Fiq, expressed. You were predisposed to left wing content, so you chose those and that's where your bubble formed around. Had you been predisposed to preferring right wing content you probably wouldn't be here lol.
Hope that explains the process in terms of your experiences.
@@snowmanmanvideoThat is interesting and I think accurate. Mostly true for me. The times I get right wing content it seems a mistake I often ignore on videos unless it's someone reaction to and breakdown of it. But text based info has been different for me in the past. I have been following the development of these reactionary men since there have been blogs that breakdown the written side of the manosphere (red pill, including, MGTOW etc) I have seen and read their early forums and even read terrible places that promote the worst extremes of racism and hatred of all kinds. I of course was never influenced by it but I had wanted to understand and had a voyeuristic curiosity about why they thought the way they did. I do not really do that anymore because I think it was a form of digital self harm lol. I never truly understood a perfect why other than fearing a loss of power in society and losing the ability to easily exploit others creates a rage in these kind of people.
This video is enlightening. I am a older white guy and found this channel a few weeks ago in YT recommended algorithm. I know of F & F from sporadic viewings of H3. I watch that kind of video because I like to laugh and keep up with current social media and what young people are viewing and injesting. Great video. My Mom was the smartest emotional person I knew, she taught me and my siblings how to behave and respect everyone. Thank you for your content.
"No one is a blank slate." I have many reasons to believe this. Thank you for affirming that understanding I have. I will leave it open to change if need be. But I am inclined to agree (for other reasons I don't have the time or faculty to get into now) that we gravitate to what we have some sort of soft preference for or have found some favor with. Good stuff. Now I'll continue watching pass 08:28.
Wow! For the first time in a long time, I found a straight black man who’s got actual statistics, not angry, and not a sexist a$$ whole. 👏🏾 now it’s time to find the karate man too ! Thank you too REAL Men who are in touch
Thank you for pointing out that we've had to do the work to even get here. I took the red pill in high school, but coming out of my enlistment I'm the most progressive I've ever been thanks to older, wiser friends who opened my mind up to views very similar to your own. You are one of those positive male role models.
FD Signifier is one of the most insightful and well spoken TH-cam personalities that I watch. It has taken me many years to get to a place where I am open to these kinds of discussions. A younger me definitely had problems understanding the difficulties that those of different races, gender, and queerness than myself face in everyday life (because there weren't TH-cam videos to explain them in an intelligent and thoughtful way in my day). Although I wasn't actively being racist or misogynistic or homophobic, I could not relate as a lot of these problems as they didn't apply to me (being a sis-het white male). I feel like I have grown a lot in the last decade, and a lot of my understanding of society would be similar, yet far less refined without others (like FD) who are able to express these kinds of conversations in such a succinct way. I'm not saying I'm 100% "woke" or anything, but I feel that even wanting to hear about these concepts and being open to learning new things is the largest part of the battle.
Although I agree with FD Signifier that we will gravitate to content that supports our already existing philosophies, I hope he realizes how helpful it is to have someone that expresses the feelings I have in such a honest, complete, and well thought out manner (I assume he does understand, hence why he makes all these great videos). 😁
I had a similar youth, and around the same time as FD. While I don't think I would have fallen down the red pill path based on who I am (although I can't know that for sure), I will say I was bitter and depressed as I couldn't find a girlfriend. I am generally i think a nice person. Even then I did things to help people, and gender didn't matter, and I didn't expect anything in return. But I could never figure out why plenty of girls wanted to be my friend, but were not interested in anything romantic in nature.
Eventually I cam to understand in retrospect that the issue was me. I had no self confidence and it showed. It was pretty amazing how in one year I found a job that led to a career and I was really happy with that. It led to me being more confident in myself. At the same time I really got into weightlifting and studied how to train effectively. And while I think the physical changes has less to do with how women saw me than I thought at the time, what it did do was really improve my image of myself. These two things combined, and with being a little older by this point, really changed how I presented myself, and girls took notice of that.
Unfortunately there is no set of instructions for everyone on how to become more confident, but once you figure it out, it will change your life.
also the message all men need to hear, no one owes you love or a relationship
@@Ava-nf2qq it's profoundly unhelpful to just drop that and book. what's the next sentence? what are we supposed to do with that? i've long since internalized it and I'm just waiting to die because i have no social status or connection.
@@kaiserruhsamwe are all alienated by living in a system where we are compelled to be productive, but also deliberately kept apart by those who take our production like a dairy farmer steals cows tit juice. i've found that human connection *is* possible, face to face, or through interest communities, just by matching the vibes and chillling. don't, like, interrogate people, but do, sometimes, share a thought with a coworker or ask their opinion on some anodyne thing, and just let those words hang in the air. it might feel uncomfortable at first, but then cozy. then, you can volley that back. create little in-jokes! dare to be "scared" of the smallest person there. odds are, everyone you meet feels just as lonely and alienated as you are.
@@kaiserruhsam*That is why Fresh and Fit exist.*
@@tinoesroho doesn't really work like that consistently for neurodivergent people. i'm happy for you, but the people around me are pretty impenetrable and I don't have much means or opportunity to find community locally, but I also can't afford to leave.
this is all much bigger than one person making a genuine friend or getting a date of course. i don't think we're abolishing capitalism in my lifetime but I don't see any way for my circumstances to improve under it.
Just want to point out that what you had earlier said about algorithms prioritizing right-wing and prejudiced content over progressive or left-wing content, is actually correct. Different researches in the field of Communication reveal that even on an account without activity, right-wing content is more recommended and becomes more visible. These platforms are not neutral and much that happens on them is not the result of user interactions, but their own bias.
Given how much money there is both in right wing media and outrage farming in general, I absolutely believe it. If you don't count Fox, almost the entirety of right wing media in the US is owned/funded by 3 people. It doesn't matter the specific media, format, message, etc, it's *all* coming from less than a handful of people. And their combined advertising budgets are larger than some countries entire GDP.
And with social media specifically, the consumer is the actual product. That makes for a particularly nasty combo IMO.
@@RevShifty
When I put in Brie Larson hate is a grift I get all of them cringe videos of her looked crazy photoshopped photos of AOC, Daisy Ridley with red Superman laser beam eyes
In literally every video
TH-cam is definitely focused on pushing them
You are absolutely correct , a lot of the time people will force toxic people to forefront of social consciousness with negative attention .
One of the most powerful thing u can do on the internet is ignore something, i think that has the potential for people to realize this trend and start fighting against it .
Learning not giving attention to things is a skill. Wish I was better at it to be honest.
Seriously. Ignoring the sideshow bullshit is not only best for your mental wellbeing IMO, but in an era where outrage farming is a very established way of making money it's almost a necessity. Massive numbers of people, businesses, 'gurus', overly branded nobodies, etc are all trying to treat your attention as a commodity that they're all vying for, and sometimes the best thing you can do is agree with them and refuse to give them any of it.
I have zero clue who F&F, Tate, or any other manosphere or RP goblin is until I suddenly see them called out on channels like this a few times. Me and them have *very* different understandings of the world and travel in very different circles, so I never have a clue what sideshow is in town or their unique flavor of freakshow until someone from a positive space makes me aware. And that's just the way I like it, personally.
I started watching this video cuz I'm a woman and it's unfortunately rare on the internet to see a man talking like he lives on earth. But goddamn I stayed cuz of the way you roasted them. Thank you for the chuckles too 😂
I don't know if redpill-esque content was a factor, but this guy I was friends with like a decade ago who was one of the friendliest and chillest dudes I knew suddenly started espousing really fucked up stuff about gender, race, immigration, etc in 2015 overnight when he started regularly partaking in hard, experimental, and party drugs. Ironically, he even started saying that addiction is a choice and his word on the matter is law since he had become a pretty severe addict by that point. And he wasn't the only guy I knew whose public persona did a heel turn after they started partying more. At the time it confused the hell out of me but now I realize it was probably just because their inhibitions and self control withered and they didn't care anymore about seeming reasonable and not alienating people.
Have you ever considered what part of his lived experience may have contributed to him changing his behaviour?
I remember searching online for dating and other manly advice almost 15 years ago and coming across AoM and Brett's content helped me Big Time. And yeah it's likely that I was more inclined to watch and follow such content that critiqued and was self criticising than affirming. I have a younger brother and we both grew up in the same household and it breaks my heart to know just how different the guy has grown up to be. He's not much into red pill content because he's not terminally online but he's still got a lot of those ideas and values that he's picked up along the way.
Heck I even bought a ton of Art Of Manliness merch and my friends all laughed when they saw the books and coasters because it was funny to them that one needs to learn how to be a man.
Thank you for helping me understand this.
Also I still think Facebook and social media in general are a good reason to blame polarization. People have tendencies and social media scratches that itch good.
Content like Art of Manliness helped me as a teen for sure - it was far superior redpill content. I credit that and new agey manosphere - its a thing, yes, basically imagine hippies who think you can attract women by having more (literal) feminine energies or who think resolving your traumas will make women "subconscioisly" be attracted to you and stuff.
The AoM guy seemed to also focus on practical shit like, "Wanna be a man? Here's how to have a conversation" which is exactly the kind of thing manosphere stuff DOESN'T do. I think its a good start but that ultimately it's often too reliant on older ideals of manliness and masculinity - it's very traditional and I think sometimes falls prey to romanticizing the past by failing to criticize it and the individuals it holds up as admirable (like Churchill, for instance)
Likewise too much focus on the atomic family, the role of the father, etc. It could do with some reaching out to people with radically different ideas on masculinity.
It's still a much better place to go to though and following that advice wouldn't lead to a life of loneliness, which I think means it's doing a good service to humanity.
@@FloatingErgonaut That 'new agey manosphere' has actually been a thing since at least the early 1980s. People have been claiming 'there's a problem with masculinity in this country' for literal decades already. You ever want to throw a conservative manosphere type for a loop, point out how it was literally the first iteration of the MRA scene that coined the term toxic masculinity. They called themselves the New Romantics IIRC, and they attributed society looking down on men showing any sort of emotional depth to the concept of toxic masculinity.
There is absolutely nothing new under the sun. Even blaming the falling marriage rate or divorce for why men 'don't have any guidance or role models' is at least 6 decades old by now. The more things change, the more things stay the same.
@@RevShifty That's absolutely fascinating. Yeah, those new agey dudes were kinda helpful. It played a role in getting me away from the manosphere as a whole, honestly.
I agree that there's nothing new under the sun! There have been things conservatives spout that I've literally seen mentioned by people 2000 years ago. They honestly do keep coming up with the same shit over and over again hah
@@FloatingErgonaut I'm sorry, I just realized my initial response comes across a whole lot more dismissive than I intended. Conservative complaints and culture warrior nonsense are always the same, regardless of time or place, and they're always absurd. Because the mythical time they all want to return to never actually existed. Not once, ever, at least not like they claim it did. It's just a fantasy to whip the terminally clueless into a frenzy with, and once that starts they'll usually fall for anything.
I definitely didn't mean to imply I have anything against anyone looking for positive examples of men or masculinity, so if that's how that sounded I apologize. It's more that society will always have its issues (the nature of very large populations all in one place together), but I think people claiming to have a solution cause far more damage than whatever it is they're claiming is the problem is usually does. Talking about the need or desire for a more complex, nuanced picture of positive manhood is one thing; claiming you have the solutions to all of societies supposed ills through this one absurd fantasy is something else entirely IMO. One I can support and get behind, the pretty needs to be brought out back, shot in the head, and then burned to ash to make sure it doesn't somehow come back.
I was lucky growing up. My father was a volunteer firefighter and ambulance tech, on top of working 12+ hours a day. We didn't have a lot to directly do with one another for a lot of my childhood, but I understood he was doing really important things for people in an emergency and I wasn't so selfish that I wanted to rob them of his help. He very clearly and directly showed me what real care, help, and what a real sense of community looked like; it took me many years to process the full value and depth of what that all really meant, but I am the person I am today because I absorbed it all anyway.
@@RevShiftyYes I agree. Even the “women are not feminine anymore is an old grift.
It definitely matters. Hurting these people in their pockets is one of the best ways to get at these people. Mess with their money and it’ll make them move to smaller platforms where they won’t get as much reach. I do think youtube should delete their account but I’m cheering that at the very least, their pockets are hurt and now it’s making them ask for money and look even worse than they did before.
Should youtube also delete toxic feminist's accounts and misandrist accounts?
@@abdulbabatunde9151 Yes. Next time you engage please don’t try to deflect.
That small mention of how the Matrix is actually an allegory for estrogen and the trans experience created by two trans women made me so happy and vindicated. It’s actually crazy how some people will take something and apply a completely wrong interpretation to fit their narrative in current society that completely deviates from the artist’s original intention. Thank you so much for pointing out this stupidity that not enough people have pointed out.
First off they didn't write the matrix they adapted it. And they only force fed that transition crap in the matrix 4 after both transitioned and now everyone is trying to retcon. It's embarrassing brodi don't just believe everything they say
@@TheForkOnTheLeftist I see how it could be retconned and later said to be something different that the original intent, however the alpha male ideology of blue and red pill ideology about society is biased and makes everything more black and white. I don’t mind self hope advice and trying to help younger men in these hard times. I think it becomes a problem when traditional and biased view points about society, gender, and sexual relations become integrated in these talks with people like Jordan Peterson and Hamsa who may on paper be helping younger men feel better but still have a sense of fear mongering and preach “rejecting wokism, feminism” etc. which can also ironically hurt marginalized groups of people while propping up and making younger men more close minded and continue more marginalization. And given your mention of “transition crap”, I get the initial impression that you’re more in line with the red and blue pill idea.
@@charlieblueberg01 nah I'm more in line with "life isn't fair stop complaining and win". I happen to think it's not fair for anyone. Once you accept that, a lot of these conversations become superfluous. I only said transitioning crap to sound more dramatic if I'm being honest. Live and let die as far as I'm concerned with people's personal choices. As long as me and mine aren't forced to indulge, I don't see the issue
This man, I'm not sure what his name is.
But it is nice to see someone capable of thinking for themselves.
Good for you
I have a brother who is getting into the whole red pill thing and this video has really helped me to understand and empathize better.
Maybe the real fresh and fit was the friends we made along the way
Please 😂😂😂😂
V good 👏🏽
😂😂
I’m sending this to my three sons. Multi level lesson, if not for them at least to prepare them with being around boys stuck in that system.
Damn I remember AOM from like 10 years ago when it was just a blog. And you know, real talk one of the things I remember noticing and appreciating about it was how relentlessly constructive it was. The author(whose name escapes me all these years later) never inderectly validated negative self concepts, or juxtaposed the ideas he presented against so called (that is, stereotypically)"unmanly" attributes. Really was a treasure tbh, just an honest, earnest seeming dude trying to find ways to maximize his enjoyment of and presence in his life and share what he found with others. Good stuff.
I remember hearing you bring up Jason Wilson a few times, I'll have to check him out too.
People need to get familiar with the "do not recommend" feature on youtube. Because I watch relationship content, the red pill stuff sometimes ends up on my feed. As soon as I see it, I move it off.
Just because you mentioned redpill, I'm going to see other things that mention redpill.
Throughout the last year and a half, I began to resent the men’s fashion and self improvement community for refusing to speak out against the growing influence of the horrible red pill ideologies and grifters radicalising vulnerable people
A lot of content creators from that community have drifted from making men’s fashion, style and grooming content to becoming a red pill oriented and cringy AF hustle bro
I have never liked anything that has come out of the manosphere because of the amount of harm they’ve done to the public
Great video mate 👍
Because it makes more view. You just need to say submission, career women, modern women, FemalEee, feminist, women hitting the wall, and you content will be filling with men saying Facts and sharing 😂
This does apply to me when i think about it. I wasnt always this far left and effective in the political and social spaces. From the very beginning i wanted to be a good person, i just didnt know how. I grew up in the south surrounded by bootstrap preachers, racists, misogynists, old world nostalgia, and reagan obsessed folks. So my understanding of how to be good was incredibly skewed from the beginning. But i didnt know that, i was using the same tools i was given from the world around me to try and be a good person. Which lead me to unwitting passive racism, classism, and just all around useless person with a sense of superiority. I was a hardline centrist back then. But i guess actively trying to be a good person leads you down a path of education (if its available to you atleast) and years later i end up where i am now. A communist, feminist, anti-racist trying to help other people find their way down the same path i took to be better. I probably never would have got here if i wasnt trying to be good from the beginning. Maybe people dont need to be taught HOW to be good, they actually need to be convinced that being good is a valid option and worth doing.
I definitely had a low point in my life after a breakup. I watched a bit of red-pill stuff, and I did learn some valuable things, emphasis on some, but the clear misogyny eventually turned me off. It was after I stopped consuming those videos I was able to get into a healthy, long term relationship that I'm still currently in
I'm curious which parts of red pill are misogyny.
I love how you can just break things down and articulate and invite deeper meaningful conversations on masculinity thank you so much ❤
I've mentioned this previously, but had I come across Manosphere material during my junior year of college, I might have become immersed in that sphere. My mental state was quite fragile at that time. It's probably why I saw a lot of young men in the space who reminded me of myself. And I grew disheartened by their internalize belief that they were life "failures" at 19 simply because they had little to no success with women.
🙋🏽♀️💫
I know one of my friend who begin to share their videos to our group friend. I was like bro we are just 22 and you just had a break up. She didn’t leave you because of hypergamy.
You and Jason Wilson are the truth! Thank you!!! I work with a community organization that works on violence prevention. We do our best to try and create an on ramp for men that have no awareness that there even is a different narrative. That is hard to do, slow progress.
I'm a man, who first started volunteering at a DV shelter while still in high school. It definitely shaped a lot about how I view and even handle a lot of different things. More things than most people might think, at least at first.
I think that's at least part of why it's so difficult for me to wrap my head around people who went down that road. My father was a volunteer first responder growing up, and I was raised to be a decent human being before anything else. My own experiences with victims of DV cemented that to a degree I don't know if I have the skills to explain, and that was all when I was still a teenager. A whole chunk of the world based around selfishness and being a terrible person has just never once resonated with me. In any fashion. That makes it a lot harder to empathize with than I'm used to.
Dude I won’t through a mgtow phase for like 6 months back in 2017 , and when I actually got to see one of the dudes I used to listen to I realized … wait me and these people are not the same AT ALL .. walked away from BS and never looked back. I’m
Embarrassed that I even gave it the time of day but unfortunately, I was super brokenhearted coming out of a really bad relationship and super vulnerable dangerous place to be whilst making life decisions lol
I really hope you are doing better now❤. It will be really helpful to find true friends on your journey and even genuine friendships with women.
@@Sequoia98 thank you 🙏🏾 actually
Yeah that phase of my lasted 6 months the in fact I had to apologize to many of my female friends for the things I was saying during that time. Thank goodness a lot of them knew me long and well enough to know that wasn’t really me and forgave me quickly .
That took some courage. Big hugs.
@@Mikinaak2023 🙏🏾🖤
Small correction - very small - but the algorithm also works by "things that a lot of people who watch this content also watch" and it is very aggressive with that. Nothing more "joyful" than watching what is perfectly normal video game related content without a hint of nasty elements and all of the sudden your feed is now sprinkled with transphobic, homophobic, misogynistic and racist content. And heaven help you if you watch any of that content, the algorithm will go "oh yeah you love this stuff here you go down to the most awful garbage imaginable."
Yes, it is a damning condemnation of the state of young men that the algorithm even found that link, but its not all "what you are looking for at the moment" and more "and now you get exposed to things that agree with and inflame biases already present."
I actually don't think this point was given nearly enough focus in the video. I don't often get recommended obvious right wing propaganda as video recommendations but what I do get all the dang time is advertisements for right wing groups like Daily Wire, EpochTimes, PragerU or Sean Spicer's whatever as preroll or promoted videos. And I'm just trying to watch competitive Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh vids, anime and game reviews and funny clips from cartoons. This is all little baby level content (that I enjoy, no hate) and I've got Ad Sense turned off to boot but TH-cam is tacitly saying this content is acceptable for the current viewer based on the video being watched.
I agree with FD that most folks falling into these spheres are already predisposed and that society as it currently exists on a macro scale is doing most of the priming but TH-cam is normalizing this behavior for literal children like nothing before it. For a lot of kids, social media is their form of escapism from the rest of the world but never before has it been so inundated with right wing propaganda. Used to be if you wanted to get away you had to go to a library and pick out a book, then it was going to movies. Then came television and cartoons which brought along heavy advertisement but typically family friendly variety. All of these forms of entertainment helped to shape children in their formative years into the people they would later become but none of them shoved hateful propaganda in your face if you weren't looking for it. TH-cam does.
Point being kids today trying to escape from the society that's trying to indoctrinate them are not going to find a haven on TH-cam and this further normalizes conservative rhetoric during the most crucial points in their development when they have the greatest chance to rebel against it. And I believe this fact is by design.
It's kinda reassuring to know that there's not some nefarious algorithm out there created by sAtAn--that the truth is actually mundane. You are one of my favorite content creators and appreciate everything you do to be a force for good.
damn dude, im thankful that the algo led me to you. not that i’m some “red pilled” individual, but more so because im not. i mostly watch documentaries and think pieces both for and against my ideologies just to keep me in tune with talking points. this channel is refreshing because it allows me to reinforce alot of my beliefs, develop new angles to think in, while also not feel like ppl are talking over me just to look smart. keep doing you dude. your content is important and appreciated!
90% of the red pill video titles can be porn titles too with how often they use slam and destroy
appreciate you and men like you. I wish women's voices carried as much weight, but until they do, thank you.
I think your point about most men growing out of this type of content is relatable. There was a about a year when I was very depressed and started falling down a rabbit hole of Sargon, TL:DR, Amazing Atheist, and the whole "Anti-SJW" crowd. Admittedly, I was already on the left when I got into it. I realized that all this content did was make me angrier and more toxic towards those around me. I had that "nice guy" mentality for a long time. I totally fell for it. If I were in that place today it could have been Fresh and Fit or Tate. Although, I'd like to think that they are too ridiculous even for me at the time.
To be honest due to everything that they’ve done in the past, I don’t think their channels going to get demonetized ever. They broke so many TH-cam guidelines. They’re lucky their channel is still even up.
They did tho
I hadn't thought about Art of Manliness in years. I used to read through their site ages ago, and looking back, I think it was sort of foundational in getting away from toxic concepts of being a man and probably open to things like this content. Excellent call out and neat to see their still around doing the same thing.
You’ve helped me so much that it’s hard for me to comprehend. Thank you from the very bottom of my heart.
I was very nervous about what you were going to say at the end of the video because while a lot of this stuff is because of people’s own internal biases I was afraid you were going to tell us to cut off those friends. I really appreciate that you didn’t take that route, the message you gave at the end about trying to be supportive and help where you can was really great
That section towards the end where you discuss your own journey out of this headspace is incredibly helpful to hear. I feel like I’m in that position where I can look back and see that I had that worse phase but there’s plenty of unlearning and difficult thoughts ahead to push through. For so long I have felt I was alone in so much, your content and community makes me feel less so.
I was around long before the whole 'incel' thing, but I definitely started going down that path in my teens and twenties. I was fortunate enough to encounter a good group of people online who became my friends, back in the USENET days. They figuratively kicked my ass about the whole "nice guy" thing, provided much better examples of how to be a decent person, and were very supportive when I began questioning my own sexual and gender identity as a result. Without that, I think I would have remained stuck in the misogynist and queer-phobic "religious right" bullshit I was raised in.
20:10 Thank you for pointing this out. I had the same exact experience, and the turning point was when I realized I was not as nice as a person as I gave myself credit for, and it was time to unpack some things, rather than listen to red pill cancer.
Art of manliness taught me to shave, groom and tons of other stuff. He really is an invaluable positive influence
Excellent breakdown, and worth the price of admission for the "y'all killin me with this shit" speech at the end. We're here for it.
I feel like I'm late with this one, but I've gotta ask: which one is Fresh and which one is Fit?
Lmao
That is both me laughing and my answer to your question
Neither 😂
Coconuts and Barbados
Totally agree on the influence of TH-cam allowing channels like “Fresh and Fit” to gain traction. It’s alarming how the algorithm might favor certain views. It’s clear many come to these platforms with set beliefs, and instead of radicalization, they find reinforcement. We need more balanced content. Also, it’s crucial to remember self-improvement starts with intent but systemic change is key.
Real as always. When a man can speak of reaching out and maintaining unconditional love and accepting another man where he is there is hope for all of us. You are loving kind and wise. Respect
It’s really good to see this analysis that I think a lot of good creators have been missing.
The grooming lens is a very helpful framework. Patriarchal grooming existed before the internet, so the logic that the algorithm didn't "make" people bigoted is sound to me. It just feeds into the preexisting conditioning.
Racism didn’t get them demonetized, neither did misogyny; neither did homophobia it was probably that Hizler salute, because there is one group that insulting will result in fast consequences and repercussions. My problem isn’t with them, it’s with a system that overlooks Injustice unless you’re perceived to be powerful enough to hurt them back.
Hearing you name drop AoM felt amazing! When I was deep in my misogyny mindset, that was the site that helped me get over that hangup and figure out so many things. The podcast isn't part of my rotation, but I'm a regular reader of his site, which I'd also suggest people check out!
Men have to set themselves free as the first step. They have to see how they're played, not by other women but by the system they come up in and the impact that other men have on us. We chain ourselves to expectations and chasing things that aren't important to create some shield we think will protect us from scrutiny and insult. We have to learn to recognize this and apply it to our lives, and recognize reactionary behavior, recognize ideas that conflate aggression with strength rather than discipline, self control, and allowing oneself to be vulnerable. When we can learn to apply this to all facets of our lives we will break the chains that bind us.