exactly carebears and katherine to some extent was the only well written female. Elena and BONNIE🥺 deserved better writing. Wouldn't it be so great if it was Katherine and Stefan Klaroline Bonenzo at the end.
The problem was the originals. The writers killed a lot of their plans simply because Klaus was popular. They should have sticker to the original plan and kill off Klaus season 3 and move one. The show became stagnant 4-5 then they didn't know what to do after the originals left.
I adore human Elena! She was kind, strong, self-assured, had a life outside of Stefan and Damon, set boundaries, outsmarted vampires on several occasions, stood up for her friends, etc. I could go on! I never understood the hate she received. Vampire Elena, on the other hand, felt like she regressed as a character!
100% agree! But I also blame the writers more than Elena’s character for not knowing how to handle vampire Elena outside of her relationship with Damon
I wouldn't even say she's that selfish, I'd say she's self-centered. Whenever anything happens, she immediately assumes it's somehow about her or her fault, but that's kind of understandable too, when you take into account what has happened to her in the early seasons. Her parents died because she'd asked them to pick her up from a party, and because Stefan saved her instead of them (and we know her father could've survived, he was still conscious). It isn't her fault but she probably has some survivor's guilt. Elena was the reason Katherine and Klaus came to Mystic Falls. Katherine came back because she wanted to trade Elena for her freedom. This resulted in Caroline being turned into a vampire, and Tyler's werewolf curse being triggered. Klaus came back literally just because of Elena, because he needed her to break his curse. This resulted in another one of Elena's family members, Jenna, dying. In the very beginning of the show, we know that Stefan stayed in Mystic Falls, again, because of Elena, because he wanted to know her, and then Damon followed and killed a bunch of people. None of that was Elena's fault but people keep being low-key obsessed with her or wanting her for their own reasons. I mean, I'm not really surprised that after all that she got paranoid and started assuming that everything was about her
I read this one description of Elena that I agree with. Elena was selfishly selfless. Like, every selfless thing she did was inherently selfish too. Like killing Kol and everyone in his sireline. She says it's because Kol was going to kill Jeremy. They need the cure for all vampires. But, really, she had Jeremy kill Kol because she wanted to get the cure because she can't accept that she's now a vampire
One small I thing I would add to the whole "Elena is a bad friend because of what Damon did to Caroline" (which was definitely brushed over in the show) is that Klaus not only tried to kill Elena, he also killed her aunt Jenna (and her ex boyfriend, Tyler's mother, I forget about it all the time) And Caroline still hooked up with him. So she really doesn't get the moral high ground.
she shouldn’t have slept with him, but caroline didn’t pursue a relationship with klaus, and she didn’t expect her best friends to be happy about it. she was very ashamed whereas elena wasn’t at all.
@@BabyGirlTiny that was because tyler kept acting all self-righteous and throwing it in her face every two minutes. yes she did sleep with the man who killed his mom and that was wrong, but tyler was also a dick to her in their relationship and after, and i don’t even remember an instance where he was all that supportive of her or acted like a real friend. so context matters.
@@lily3_he had every right to throw it in her face lmfao. What do you mean. There is no context for you to claim that Tyler should get over Caroline sleeping with the man that killed his mother.. give that same grace to Elena then
@@BabyGirlTiny i never said he had to get over anything. i gave a reason as to why she said it since you asked. and no i still wouldn’t give that grace to elena because elena wasn’t sorry…like at all. she treated both her friends like the devil because she slept with and was in love with someone her friends see as the devil. whereas caroline acknowledged that she wasn’t right for what she did and literally tells him to leave. so…there’s no context for you to claim that elena is somehow on the same playing field as caroline as far as accountability goes.
Elena is an example of good as a human and bad as a vampire same with Cami from the TO, she was so good as a person and went into crazy ex mode after turning. Caroline is the opposite she shined after turning, same with Hayley
not sure if this was truly what happened behind the scene, but i've heard that them making cami annoying and stuff after turning into a vampire was just an "excuse" to wrote her off the show. since leah had gotten so much hate, which i know at least this part is true, due to her character's relationship with klaus and requested to leave.
Just remember Stefan gets a lot of hate for everything but Damon and Klaus give TVD fans a little smile and they forget all bad things. Boring doesn’t make a bad couple, it makes a good couple
Nah boring doesn’t make a good couple. Especially when it comes to something that’s meant to entertain. If this wasn’t a show boring would be good. But because it is a show boring is bad. Stefan and Elena didn’t need drama, but their personalities when they are together is just boring. Elena shows more personality with Damon, and I’m not even a delena shipper.. I hate Damon. Stefan and Elena were cute in the beginning, but it started becoming boring when the writers decided that neither of them have a personality around each other. To me, stefan is at his most interesting, when he’s with Lexi. And i don’t ship them together either. The fact that stefan showed more personality in the one episode with Lexi, shows just how boring they are
It could be that Stefan gives “I’m a good person better than the others” when he isn’t and Damon and Klaus know that they aren’t good people and they don’t try to make people think they are?
Okay, before I watch the whole video, I wanted to write here my personal view on Elena Gilbert. I actually adored and really loved Elena in the first 3 seasons, it really felt like she is a good friend who loves her friends, and would do anything for them and also her family of course. And I also felt really bad for everything she went through and I kinda still do. And also I think the talent that Nina Dobrev has really helped me to sympathize with her a lot. But after the 4th season I just couldn't stand Elena, she became so insufferable, and I mostly blame Damon for that, and the whole Delena thing(I also hate Damon, but it's a whole another story). It really felt like the writers tried so hard to make them work by changing both Damon and Elena in a way that made no sense and made them worse on their own way. And by the finale I just didn't care about her at all.
And I also wanted to add that I don't really mind characters changing for the worst and being flawed, it's the way that writers trying so hard to make her look like an angel that does no wrong which made me so annoyed all the time.
I whole heartedly agree! Her story with Damon did drag her character down. Her absolute best was the storyline with Klaus becoming the hybrid. That was peak Elena.
I love Elena. I don’t understand why people say she’s selfish when she literally tried to martyr herself dozens of times so nobody else got hurt. You can’t really be selfish and self-sacrificing simultaneously. I also don’t get the cheating accusations? The only time she really cheated was when she kissed Damon at the end of S2 when he was dying. By the time they kissed again, Stefan had essentially dumped her. He had told her repeatedly he didn’t want her to keep looking for him and to let him go. She actually hung on way longer than most of us would, I think. Okay, off to finish the second half of the video!
Yeah plus Damon was *DYING* and she had genuine reason to believe he wasn't gonna survive so I kinda excuse it tbh bc it wasn't from a "I want to kiss you" place but a "goodbye friend who ik wants to kiss me before he dies" place xd
my issue with Elena isn’t her flaws but the fact that they’re never acknowledged. everyone is flawed but they’re reprimanded. she is selfish and a bad friend but everyone claims otherwise and bc of this she acts above everyone else. the other characters do bad things, it’s acknowledged, and (usually) atoned for but Elena gets away with selfish deeds while being characterized as the victim
So when were Stefan reprimanded for being a terrible person? When was Bonnie reprimanded for the bad stuff she did? When was Caroline or Tyler? The only one whose bad traits are acknowledged is Damon because he was written as the antihero
@yuckyfairy you said she is flawed but never reprimanded while everyone else is. I'm asking who else is reprimanded. Elena literally has characters try to change her when she misbehaved or Caroline judge her to her face about her decisions. You have Elena saying she can't hold grudges against people because she too isn't perfect so how exactly are her faults not acknowledged? And her being a bad friend, give us an example don't mention her being with Damon because Caroline slept with Klaus. Give another example that makes her a bad friend.
@@leeanngouttiere9077 yeah except GOOD writers of fiction don’t actively rewrite events that contradict things that were previously written. They add to them, they don’t go back on it.
i feel like elena gets an unfair amount of hate from viewers. i think for the most part the show does a good job of making her a likable, sympathetic character. people always seem bothered by the fact that all of the characters make elena the center of their universe and constantly make sacrifices for her, but thats not her fault...it's theirs. they're all deliberately and purposely choosing to make these sacrifices for her. and there are multiple times throughout the show when she asks them NOT to, or when she is willing to sacrifice herself for the group -- but they always interject and stop her from doing so. the other characters choosing to behave stupidly isn't a reflection of elena, it's a reflection of them.
Thank you! I honestly don’t understand the hate she gets, but the love Katherine does. When you compare the two who is the most self-centered? Especially the stupid excuses Katherine makes when she does something out of pocket. Her excuse is that she’s a survivor but most of her torment has nothing to do with it. Yes, there are moments that Elena has made dumb decisions but I’ve never been against her as a character. People are just hating to hate her. She isn’t purposefully asking to be the center of attention but she’s supposed to be, she’s the MAIN CHARACTER, what do people expect from a female lead? To be sidelined? Honestly, hating her but loving other characters like Katherine, Klaus etc, makes no sense in the realm of her being a whiny character, comparing the two is ridiculous. People just can’t stand her because she’s relatable. Also, they aren’t watching the show through the supernatural lens they are meant too. How can you not feel for a girl that has lost so many people before the age of eighteen? Then on top of that she lost her human life. Like come on, make it make sense.
Right? It’s like viewers getting angry that the characters in Buffy the Vampire Slayer have most of their lives revolve around Buffy and slaying vampires. Like, Buffy is the main character and she kills vampires. The surrounding characters are going to be all up in her business. The same with Elena in TVD, or the Halliwell sisters in Charmed. Side characters always get invested in the main characters and their lives.
The other characters definitely make it all about Elena and that is not entirely her fault. She has issues but so does everybody else. And remember Elena and her friends are all just kids when they were constantly being dated by these older men disguised as vampires, especially her and Caroline.
I never understood why some fans didn't like elena to me she was a good character in the first 4 seasons but the writers really messed up in the later seasons i understand why nina decided to leave the show
Nina Dobrev was always signed on for only 6 seasons. She never wanted to go passed that point, I’m not sure why but that’s what she’s said in interviews.
How is Elena saying "don't kill this person you will regret it, I know because I did it and regretted it" how is that making it about herself and not her relating to Caroline?
@theashwoodfaerie2 duh. That was literally said. And who else is she supposed to use as an example? Caroline don't kill this girl, I know a friend of a friend of a cousin of an ex classmate who did the same thing and they regretted it. Ever heard of drawing from personal experience to try and connect with people? That's what Elena was doing.
Thank you!! Elena turned it off when she was hurting because of a family member as well. She knew instantly that Caroline was going to turn it off. Of course she is going to use personal experience. Like c'mon people.
@KarishmaChanglani other point. Elena didn't choose to turn it off. She asked them to let her keep it off, but of course everyone else had to "help" (actually what they meant was fix) Elena even when she didn't want them to. They couldn't let her just be. Elena wanting to sacrifice herself while everyone is telling her how stupid she's being while they risk their lives to save her. Elena wanting to find Stefan while everyone just wants her to pretend and move on. Elena sad about Jeremy, they force her to shut off her emotions cause sad Elena is no fun. Elena doesn't want to turn it on. Suddenly, she must be forced to turn it on cause an Elena who puts herself first isn't fun.
My problem isn’t with Elena per say it’s mostly with how the fandom treats her So many ppl in and outside of the show had a problem with Elena marty complex and which tbh I don’t understand I don’t understand how me wanting to risk my live the life of one person to save many more is bad not to mention when ppl call her a cry baby they say she’s always crying and I shit you not I haven’t seen a single scene of Elena crying where that wasn’t the point it was always a sad scene where she’s supposed to cry plus if your whole family is dead that’s shit you think about ya know on your wedding day and shit parents both adopted and birth are dead your aunts dead your brother was dead for a time too like that shits so sad and depressing when you think about it or like when she got Jeremy compelled away like yea it was wrong but to be honest I probably would’ve done the same in her place like is elena right all the time no but she’s a real person who goes thru real struggles that I feel are always downplayed and I’ll always defend Elena great video tho ❤
I’ve actually seen a lot of commentary that her martyr complex is her being suicidal which makes so much sense. Everyone overlooks how depressed she was. She became withdrawn and lost interest in activities after her parents passed away. She talks about old Elena being more fun. She was very ready to put her life on the line multiple times and was so at peace with drowning to death when she had Stefan save Matt. It really took becoming a vampire for her to value her human life and start dreaming of a future again. Before that, she was repeatedly ready to die and seemed to have survivor’s guilt
Most of the hate she gets is for season 3 when she daggered Rebekah, killed, Kol and Finn, and lied to Elijah which makes no sense since the originals terrorized her. As for the cheating a Stefan, someone pointed out that Damon compelled Elena to believe she is too good for hom that's why she never acknowledged her feelings until she became a vampire.
I think because Rebekah wanted a friend and was starting to trust Elena. However, Elena had no reason to trust them and didn't know when to believe her. Stefan also allowed Klaus to kill Rebekah and he gets no hate for this so why is Elena different? You can say everybody was horrible to Rebekah. I agree about some of the problems with Elena but this show is a disaster when it came to characters.
I liked elena as well in seasons 1-3 which is what makes me SO sad what they did to her character afterwards. I do blame damon for her regression as well, because he was horrible for her to begin with. Between her transition to vampirism and being with him, changed her for the worst. I also would like to say I hated damon, everyone is so quick to defend him but nothing about him is worth defending
I feel like the biggest reason why Elena feels underdeveloped is because when they took her character from the book they decided to make her good from the beginning, instead of making her a defensive petty mean girl. The whole arc that the original story had for Elena was gotten rid of to make her more 'relatable and likeable' but it had the opposite effect, because the show itself seems to assert that she is perfect and has no need to change.
At least in the early seasons, Elena pretended she wasn't a self-centered ghoul! After Season 4, Elena becomes completely self-centered and whiny! I tried to cut Elena a little slack during her Vampire transition season, but how she treated Caroline bugged me!
Caroline always tried to steal Stefan away from Elena and she sucked at keeping secrets and she was shallow and a hypocrite by saying Elena was wrong to be with Damon but then Caroline turns around and sleeps with Klaus.
@@AngelicMistyStorm To be fair to Caroline, Damon did r*pe her. And yes, Klaus killed Elena so what Caroline did wasn't right either (it was mostly done to please the klaroline shippers tbh) but least she didn't actually get with the guy.
@@gregoryschweitzer1735 Klaus did more then kill elena Klaus killed elena aunt and Tyler’s mom that’s why Tyler got so upset with Caroline. Plus Elena & Damon was also forced. Elena & Stefan should have been endgame. #stelena
@@AngelicMistyStorm I admittedly forgot about Jenna since she is rarely if ever brought up again. And him killing Tyler's mother and then Caroline sleeping with him is something between Caroline and Tyler and a legitimate reason for him to be mad which is why I didn't bring it up. I agree that Damon and Elena felt very forced at times. But I personally don't like Stefan and Elena either. Partly due to the travellers casting that spell that draws the doppelgangers together. But mostly because it low-key would freak me out being with someone who was with someone who looked exactly like me and while Katherine and Stefan was sexual assault due to her compulsions on him, it would bother me a lot. I don't understand how Elena is able to be with two guys that were with Katherine
My problem with Elena is how her flaws are never acknowledged, instead, they're covered up to make her something she is not. The writers also, messed up her character a lot. In the first 2-3 seasons, I loved her, even when she made mistakes. After, that the writers just messed up her character. I personally feel, like the old Elena would have never done what the vampire Elena did. Like - being with Damon. While, her and Damon had great chemistry and all. Damon KILLED her brother, when she rejected him, He forced himself upon her multiple times. He SA'ed and abused her Best Friend. I always thought in the earlier seasons that there would be a thing with Elena and Damon but it would never be a actual relationship because of all the things he had done (kinda like how Klaroline was ). Also, in season 6, after Damon "died", she started using these magical drugs to hallucinate him knowing that is caused her to attack other people and even killing them, which was so out of character. And when Stefan, slept with Rebekah, she judged him so hard and told him that he shouldn't have done it because Rebekah tried to kill her ( after she pretended to be her friend and then stabbed her in the back literally and figuratively and in a vulnerable moment. And I know, that she did it for a reason but she never bothered to apologize or explain herself to Rebekah) WHILE she sleeping with someone who had ACTUALLY killed her brother. And Damon sleeping with her mother before her is just so icky. - She was so selfless and caring in the earlier season and then she went to go make a plan to kill thousands and thousands of vampires just to get a cure. Season 1, Elena would have absolutely hated being a vampire and she would have looked for the cure, but when she would have found out that her being human meant killing so many people, she would have NEVER done it. - She was so mad at Stefan, who was looking for a cure for her ( and not because he thought she was a broken toy or a project of whatever but because he KNEW that the last thing Elena ever wanted was to be a vampire, especially since she mentioned it so many times in the previous seasons) when he made Jeremy kill newly turned vampires ( who were horrible people), which meant they couldn't harm Jeremy very much and even if they tried, Stefan was there for supervision and then she went on the make an entire plan to get Jeremy to go kill an ORIGINAL( and yeah I know that Kol was after them, but he also promised to leave them all alone as long as they left the cure alone, but they did it anyways and released another dangerous creature to go kill other innocent people) - She started becoming a bad friend in later seasons ( yes, I know other characters were bad friends too, and I'm not defending them either). Like, she slept with Damon, and Caroline completely judged her for it ( and she had every right to, that was her best friend, sleeping with someone who SA'ed and abused her for weeks ). And when Caroline called her out for it, Elena quite literally slut shamed her for sleeping with Damon when they did. When, she turned off her humanity, she was horrible to Caroline, and when she turned it back on, she never bothered to apologize to her about it, and when asked to, she just said, that she didn't want to take responsibility for it and didn't want to recall it and brushed it over.
YESSS! THANK YOU! I hated how the show never fully addressed Damon's horrible actions during the seasons or held him accountable. And What I hated even more is how Elena kept making excuses for him. When the old Elena would've wanted nothing more than for Damon to be punished for his crimes. Damon is not only murderer he's also an abuser and a r#pist . He killed Jeremy, he turned Vicky and Elena's mom, he tried to force himself on Elena MULTIPLE TIMES, emotionally abused Caroline and SA'ed her and Andy. But the show keeps trying to pass him off as some misunderstood hero when that title belongs to Tyler. Better man my ass.
Elena is one of my favorite characters ever and there's nothing I hate more than people hating characters for crying a lot in response to awful situations so I am SAT for this
As some who's lost a parent, Elena did pretty well for a teen orphan. Seasons 1-4 happen over the course of three years post-car accident. Personally, I don't think Elena's shock about Stefan moving on is because she's selfish. They both sacrificed so much for each other at the peril of their relationships with other characters. She moved on with his brother (yikes) who also expressed an even more extreme level of love and devotion. Stefan moving on with Rebecca who is the direct cause of Elena being forced into transition because she prioritized her old ass, immortal family over the lives of child orphans is a huge red flag for Stefan. If Elena never turned, her and Stefan probably would've stayed together longer and broken up over something else but the writers wanted Delena so bad. Elena-haters' biggest enemy is context and as someone who loved Delena as a teen, I just have to turn off my feminist brain to actually enjoy TVD and TO.
I think the problem was that she got involved with Damon who was no better than how Stefan was acting at the time and he literally tortured and abused her friend. Stefan was absolutely horrible in S3 and I don't blame her for breaking up with him but getting into a toxic relationship with Damon was not good for her either. I just wish she had found someone who truly loved her because she was Elena and not Katherine.
I think people forget that Elena is a teenager who experienced a lot of trauma and that stunted her in some ways, this applies to most of the main characters as well. However, the writers also forget that from time to time and the lack of consistency is why there is so much room for fan disagreements. It’s hilariously frustrating how cherry picked most people’s opinions are because the show was all over the place and contradicted itself on a regular basis.
She went through trauma with her parents dying and her biological father and mother coming back into her life causing havoc and then her father, who in my opinion was the only person who actually tried to protect her from being used in the war between the vampires as everyone's object, dies and her aunt is killed right in front of her. She has to take care of her brother and is taken advantage by these older vampires who see her as a replacement for their previous love interest. This girl needed therapy but was put through more trauma by a bunch of feuding adults who should have known better than to use a child for their own goals and she is stuck in her dysfunctional relationship with Damon at the end. She honestly did deserve a lot better from the writers as did Caroline and Bonnie.
@bethbrown8249 Thank you! I always have to chuckle at the heated arguments and long essays in the comments sections, and would mostly just like to reply: It's not that deep. The writers often seemed to not know themselves what they were going for, and were not very consistent with their caracter arks. 😅
My biggest problem with Elena is her hypocrisy. Elena almost ALWAYS makes excuses and denies her wrongdoings. My problem with Elena is not her doing bad things but the writers insisting that she’s “such a good person” and “can do no wrong.” If the writers actually embraced Elena being a flawed character and making bad decisions I think she would’ve been a more likable character A small comparison to Katherine- Katherine is a very loved character even though objectively she is a very terrible person. Katherine typically owns up to her evil deeds bc she knows she's a bad person and has done terrible things so she embraces it.
How is Elena a hypocrite when she literally keeps telling people she can't judge them because she too has done bad things. The one character that literally never judges anyone.
I actually liked Elena and never understood why so many people gave her crap. She dated both brothers, which is the worst she did. Yes, it was wrong, but Carolina dated practically everyone on the show and no one seems to get annoyed with her for it. Carolina was a terrible friend to Elena, always secretly jealous of her. Plus, in friend code, you don't date your friend's ex, but Carolina dated Stefan, who was Elena's ex. And let's not forget, Carolina hooked up with Klaus after he killed her boyfriend's mom. The only person who probably kept to friend codes and was a decent person is Bonnie.
Only 2 minutes in, but I don't know what people are talking about. Elena most certainly is not narcissistic. If anything, she's pathologically self-sacrificing. Edit: 15 minutes in, and regarding people saying that she makes everything about her -- no sweaty, she's just the protagonist. She's the main character, and the writers make everything about her. I think you just have a problem with narratives as a concept.
@@angelaholmes8888 The amount of times in the show where I'm just thinking: "Elena, shut up and let people resolve this in a way that doesn't require you directly handing yourself over to the enemy every single time."
Also, I have watched a lot of reactors groan whenever Elena makes a decision and call her dumb but when she's proven right, they just don't acknowledge it. For example, when she went to the vampire house to save Stefan, or when she made her first deal with Elijah or when she woke up Elijah...
Bonnie constantly sacrificing herself and dying so that Jeremy won’t die and Elena won’t lose a brother her last family is what’s everything wrong with the writers writing about Elena and people around her. And why they don’t like her. Totally justifiable. Everyone protecting elena and her feelings and everything being about her LIKE EVERYTHING is absurd snd not realistic and unfair. Bonnie went thru A LOT and she wasn’t treated special even though she is the one who had actual magical powers??!!!!! Her character sucks.
I truly can’t watch the show anymore because I truly hate the Damon character and it’s Julie Plec and Caroline Dries fought. Kevin Williamson, season 1- season 4 episode 1 head writer and show runner, wrote a true believable love triangle and it came to a end starting season 4 episode 2
Am I the only one who doesn't see it as Elena making it to be about herself when she told Caroline what it was like for her when she turned off her humanity? I just see it as Elena telling about her experiences of something she has been through and didn't Stefan also do that to Elena when she turned off her humanity? I know that when people make the same mistake as me and I share experiences of it, I don't do it to make things about me, only to tell them about the consequences it can have and how you can feel etc, I mean don't we all share our experience about things we gone trough with people in the same situations 🤷♀
Damon and Stefan were never really that developp after season 3. Stefan being reducing to the hero who is somehow, because of Julie Plec obssession for Damon, responsable for everything that Damon does and Damon being this on-off villain-hero that just go kill someone when Elena piss him off (something that Ian was tired of ). They are just loved because the actors are charming but the writing is poorly handled. Klaus developpement tho is fantastic
Elena Gilbert is honestly one of my favorite characters on TVD, sure she was annoying at times but she was always one of my favorite characters on the show, mainly because of Nina’s amazing portrayal of her, I do think that the writers really messed up her character in later seasons though. I don’t blame Nina for leaving the show
I’m not sure I’d say it wasn’t true she didn’t love Damon in that moment because it’s possible to know something and continue lying to yourself and everyone in your life. I almost feel like the part where it turns out she met Damon first felt a little more retconned if anything
You know when Elena was talking to Caroline when she planned to turn off her humanity, I never saw it as Elena making it about herself. I always thought she was trying to warn her about the possible mistakes she would make by giving her a personal example. To be honest there aren't that many moments where Elena makes things about herself (from my memory anyway. Though I haven't watched it in a while, nor do I plan to,) and when she does it's always understandable since it usually DOES have something to do with her. I also never really saw that much of a change from human Elena to vampire Elena, but everyone else has and it's making me wonder what exactly they're seeing that I'm not. She seemed more ruthless and I guess emotional or outspoken, but nothing dramatic like tvd fans seem to think, and now that you mentioned it, her character wasn't expanded on. We don't know ANYTHING about her. Her character changed to fit the plot. For instance that whole thing with her father being an Augustine member and how she dealt with it truly shocked me. I was like "This isn't Elena. It can't be 😅." Also, I never really cared much for Katherine. I didn't dislike her but I didn't like her Either. The fact that she ended up being their last "big bad" seemed completely ridiculous to me. Idk, honestly I don't think she should've stayed that long. Also, I was shocked when many of the fans mentioned (in their fanfics) that Damon was a ra▪︎ist, especially since there weren't any hints dropped or anything. I feel like Caroline's reaction would've been MUCH more severe than it was. I can only assume this thought comes about from the scene when he first attacks her. If so it's understandable, but I thought he killed her and when it was discovered he didn't I assumed she passed out and he only fed from her which Is what I believe they tried to show. Also, I just realized out of the Salvatore brothers, Stefan is the only one implied to have killed young children, while Damon didn't (but was lead to believe otherwise.) I wish this would've been expanded on. I feel like TVD could've been darker, with most vampires being morally grey and maybe when Elena became a vampire or even Caroline, we could've seen her changing morality. I think it would've been interesting and with the existence of compulsion and vampires' general physical superiority, darker themes could've been explored. I've only read two fanfics that depicted the Salvatores, Elena and her gang as morally grey and found it refreshing and fascinating and even added novel elements (specifically vampire powers. Sadly it only appeared briefly.) Also psychic's in the novel seemed to be able to cast spells and I feel like that could've been incorporated well. Lastly, I feel like they should've handled Elena's blood differently. Since doppelganger blood was used to create vampires, I like the thought of it having some influence over them (maybe enhancing their powers or siring them to her, etc.) IDK, I guess I kinda wish she had powers or something. Since her blood was so powerful, show it. Maybe her blood could boost all spells. Maybe she could create vampires of her own, perform blood magic, or have vampiric abilities while being technically human. Heck she could've been a psychic for all I care, I wished that gave us SOMETHING. Haah~ That's all I gotta say. If a skilled fanfic writer is seeing this, PLEASE write something that incorporates these themes. (Moral ambiguity, mature rating, Elena with powers Oh! And some elements from the novel (specifically the powers of vampires.)
This is actually a really good explanation of how I feel about Elena. I never thought she was a horrible person. At least, no worse than the rest of the characters. I mean… we have a group of sexy serial killers on our hands, let’s all calm down. I love them, too, but Elena is so far from the worst person here! I admittedly stopped watching the show after the whole sire plot ruined Delena because even if I shipped them after that, it felt like they had stripped Elena of her autonomy in a way that they couldn’t come back from. The retcon of “you can only be sired if you were in love with them” is so messy, too, because that has interesting implications for our boy Tyler, don’t you think? 😂
I feel like shows with an ensemble cast and a defined main protagonist, it’s pretty common for that character to get hated on. I see this issue mostly with female led shows more often because that’s what I like to watch. When it’s a long running show and you have dealt with most of the main character issues it would be natural to give some attention to the others. If done well, their main plot points would be weaved in slowly, foreshadowing it. You see the main character being helped by their friends and now you can see them being a friend back. Exploring the world through these characters, making sure the overall theme is the same while still giving interesting conflict to the other characters. The only show I can think of ( as I’m writing this ) with well balanced ensemble cast is Avatar the last air bender (the animated version). Otherwise the hate is usually oh I like this character better, I wish I was following their journey instead. Which is not a fair criticism to the character in question. Still I understand the feeling because there is a lack of variety in main characters. The stories that get made or chosen to be adapted usually follow a formula for their main character but that’s a writing issue. I know there is behind the scenes problems that play into this as well but most of the time, instead of hating a character I’m usually like this is clearly a writing issue.
also, i don't see how anyone can have an issue with elena's selfishness and be okay with damon's. damon is incredibly selfish and constantly acts in his own self interest throughout the show, regardless of who it hurts. i mean the man killed jeremy just because he felt slighted by elena rejecting him. he constantly throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way. fans are way more forgiving of his selfish antics than they are of elena's.
My biggest issue with Elena is how everyone was willing to die for her. I get wanting to save your friend, but to die for your friend? that’s way too much. I get Damon and stefan but not anyone else. That and her personality was generic. Which, as I properly watch the show I don’t hate her as much as I did when ive only seen glimpses of it. But she’s still not a character I can say I liked. I don’t hate her anymore, and can admit she’s a pretty okay character. But I’m in season 4 so that could change
i liked elena a lot when i started watching the show and that’s all because of Nina. But i completely agree the reason why the fans didn’t like her. First main characters are always getting shit on especially the right chosen one, because fans hate on main characters especially when they are in comparison with other characters. Like Elena with Caroline and Stefan with Damon. Fans hate when the writers try to shove it in down our throats that this character is better then this one and ofc we are gonna feel for the characters that are more insecure like Care and Damon. That’s one. So then we have two gorgeous brothers in love with her and trying to keep her alive and would burn the world for her which sometimes included elena‘s friends. So ofc everyone is annoyed and jealous of that because we have Bonnie and Caroline in the other hand too. And Caroline and Bonnie went trhough shit but sometimes alone BONNIE especially even more, but she didn’t have Stefan and Damon or others to be there for her and baby her and care for her. Her pain and her suffering went under the rug, she wasn’t allowed to have feelings and to retaliate when they did they treated her as a villain and annoying. But Elena is treated as this breakable object that we should protect constantly and she was allowed to have feelings of not even being able to choose a brother in s3 and they went along with it. Everything was about her and yeah she is the main character but everyone tried to save her and her problems so that she can be okay and that’s fucling annoying bc bonnie didn’t have that support system and sometimes caroline too. And that’s the writers being obsessed with Elena and Nina. They tried soooo much to insert her everywhere even when she wasn’t in this show, they tried so hard to make her as this special amazing person when she is just okay and should have been treated like that. Bc bonnie or caroline are much better characters or the same as elena so it’s just ridiculous to put her at this crazy pedestal and that’s what’s annoying. She was just a normal girl same as caroline and bonnie and yet she was treated as this amazing special girl that everyone loves and would sacrifice themselves for her and it’s only about her pain and her loss and her feelings and how special she is and yes she is a crybaby and a damsel in distress that everyone is saving whether emotionally or physically. That’s annoying. I hated s5 but i liked that they inserted the doppelgänger storyline of elena and stefan being destined to fall in love and how that started everything to the point of elena and stefan falling in love in s1 which starts everything. So it makes her a little grounded that she wasn’t that special. And i liked that she fell for Damon which is something not planned. I like that stroyline. And i didn’t like that Elena fell off and from s5 on she wasn’t treated as a heroine of the story and main character but rather just damon‘s girlfriend and it was all about their relationship drama. This is the part i didn’t like. But at the same time i liked that she started messin up and it felt more normal, she wasn’t treated as that special special character anymore, not in the same way anyway, but then she started being very annoying and also worse so it’s the same circle. She also was being worse then before but also better. And Katherine is the better one because she had NO ONE to save her and baby her and sacrifice themselves for her(apart from some guys, but she manipulated them and accept it not like it was with elena as if she is that special and amazing and that’s just the way it is). Even Klaus was a manchild but Katherine‘s family was killed, and she had to run for so long and she saved herself countless times and didn’t have a family like Klaus or friends and people like elena to save them. And she still was treated bad in comparison with Elena but people still like Kath more bc she is the real one. And she is inspiring tbh. So that’s why people don’t like Elena. She was treated special, everything was abt her and her feelings and everyone sacrificeing themselves for her and it was annoying when you have other characters like kath bonnie caroline who didn’t get the same grace. But i personally liked Elena being easy going and she is just cute and likes having fun and has relationship problems with damon in s5 and that felt a little realistic but still it was a downfall of her character.
Can't lie, I'm not Elena's biggest fan but I think that's mostly because of her dynamic with the Salvatores. Their habit of bulldozing right over her just because they think they know best doesn't get nearly enough pushback, which is annoying because we know that Elena is more than capable of making herself heard. Maybe if they didn't tend to make everything worse, it wouldnt bother me so much but, then again, I'm a hardcore Salvatore hater so maybe not...
I’m sorry but I actually really enjoyed elena , I don’t get why ppl hated on her , like she didn’t ask to be the doppelgänger and all the chaos that fallowed, ppl say she’s annoying but like what young teen isn’t, yes she’s obviously going to make mistakes and not have a clear vision on things she young and shes sone one that has suffered a lot of loss , yes she can be a but ungrateful, annoying, and sometimes a bit unlikable but I still very much enjoyed her character and a good lead
Elena has the anxious/dissociative attachment style. Maybe Borderline personality mixed in. The trauma and loss she went through, mixed with the almost flip-flopping of her actions / emotions and morals is so clear!! I suppose it’s a matter of personal perspective but I don’t think the writers intended on doing that but it makes sense in retrospect. Just food for thought 😂
I’m borderline I don’t see it for her. What she does have is survivor’s guilt and pathological grief that instead of going to therapy she got into harmful relationships with vampires. The Salvatores should have left
2:24 I never interpreted her reaction like that 🤔 I always thought that she said "are you trying to hurt me?" Because Stefan chose Rebekah to try to move on. You know, the person that killed Elena and that's why she became a vampire. Of all the women in Mystic Falls he chose Rebekah, who killed Elena. On the other hand, of all the men in Mystic Falls, Elena chose Damon, Stefan's brother so... Who is she to judge?? 😅
I remember when Caroline turned her humanity off and Elena made it about her. Bonnie’s grams died because of the tomb spell and her mum became a vampire because of Esther. Not everything was her fault though she is extremely self centred and to be honest I liked Katherine more when I rewatched the show each time. She definitely had a reason for being selfish though she suffered so much loss every time Elena cried on screen I cried too 😭
She absolutely did not make Caroline turning her humanity off about her. She was trying to use personal experience to convince Caroline she was making bad choices but that’s not making it about her.
This I the dumbest take ever. If you are an recovering drug addict and saw someone about to start taking drugs, would you not try to talk them out of it by talking about your own struggle with drugs.? How is that making it about you. Are we forgetting that she's also the only one to understand Caroline and suggest they just leave her alone if she's not hurting anyone. Which is different to how everyone treated Elena when she turned her humanity off.
@@olavihekandjo2928 if you are so incompetent that you can’t understand my point I think you have bigger issues than my “horrible take”. Your so called “take” makes zero sense. Drugs vs killing and torture? I think not. The fact that multiple characters on the show had to tell elena that she is not the end all and be all of life is telling. You can’t convince me otherwise.
@MATTELMADE again. Elena didn't make the situation about her. I Didnt understand your take? You literally said she made it about herself. And that's a lie. Elena pulled from personal experience. Don't do it, you will regret it. I went through the same thing and regretted making that same decision. I used an example from real life because we don't have vampires in the real world. So, drug use compared to turning off their humanity.
@MATTELMADE Just because other characters said it doesn't mean they were right. When Rebekah first said it, she was literally only inviting Matt to their party to hurt him as revenge against Elena. When Stefan said it, he just had sex with Elena's killer in an effort to hurt Elena while also trying to use Rebekah to get to the cure for Elena. When Caroline said, she was has Elena running around trying to save a girl that Caroline was about to kill, and Elena just pulled from personal experience to try and talk Caroline out of it.
The same things you listed to why Elena is selfless other characters did more selfless acts. It’s not sexism Damon never said he was a good guy we as the viewers are not meant to see him as a good guy But Elena it’s shoved down our throats that’s she’s a good girl that’s the difference.. we don’t overlook her trauma we don’t bring it up because the show never lets us forget it. We watch Bonnie, Caroline, Tyler etc go through Trauma every season their trauma is overlooked. Damn Jeremy lost his parents too. He lost his Aunt & Uncle too! All of his girlfriends died!! his trauma is overlooked. This video is giving white guilt. You’re literally grasping for straws trying to defend her
Elena lost everyone within a year of each other and she was orphaned twice. Nobody cares about Caroline's blonde bitch trauma she should have stayed dead when Katherine killed her. Elena lost more than everyone. People having trauma doesn't mean her trauma should be ignored either
What kills me is when people on Reddit complain she’s a cry baby and weak. She lost her entire family in traumatic ways- she’s allowed to cry. And she also stabbed herself in the stomach to save her friends with Elijah, sacrificed herself in a ritual (it wasn’t her fault her friends kept interfering- she was okay with sacrificing herself), started to slit her own throat to test Ric, and much more all while HUMAN. People don’t give her enough credit for all she did as a human with no powers
13:33 -- Klaus didn't just try to kill Elena, he did kill Elena. Also Jenna and Jules. Elena was bought back by the spell that John gets Bonnie do causing his life to be linked to Elena's.
i don’t even think her comment to no humanity caroline was an example of selfishness. she was just trying to relate to her and get through to her. saying “hey i’ve been through this situation and it’s awful” isn’t centering yourself. it’s an attempt to reach the other person by displaying empathy through proof of similar experiences. elena was always the center of each plot because she was a doppelgänger. so when people argue she made everything about her it was so annoying because it literally WAS about her. caroline was a far worse character, albeit she had great character development, but she doesn’t get nearly as much hate.
Also I think the term for changing things that they already established is 'retcon' (I think that's how it's spelled, I've never had to write it before)
For me the difference between Caroline and Elena is this: Yes, Caroline hooks up with Klaus but she NEVER dated him. She never threw Klaus on Elena's face and she even felt guilty afterwards. Elena made the choice to actively date the man who abused her friend and killed her brother. To me this is more a writers thing so I dont really blame Elena. At this point they want Delena to happen so bad that they actually make Caroline come across as insufferable because she A) her best friend is having feelings for her abuser and B) at this point she just learned she has been sired and therefore she thinks that she is being manipulated by Damon. But instead of having a moment with Elena and Caroline having a conversation of how Damon treated Caroline and her trauma with him, and Elena seeing her POV in this, the writers just make Caroline annoying and turn her into the bad guy for not supporting her friend. It also really bugs me that the writers dont really let her have flaws. All the flaws we see do not exist in the context of the show, which means that those flaws are not intentional. They want Elena to be most compassionate person ever, but she actually has moments where she is not, where she does some things that were kind of crazy - killing Kol for instance knowing that it would kill many vampires. Just a season earlier she was telling Esther how wrong this was. And I think one episode prior to this Stefan gave a whole speech about how bad she would feel if she killed Rebekah. And yet, Elena wants to kill all these vampires and no one disagrees? Its so weird.
uff, it's been so long since I watched this show, I used to love it as a teen, tho. Never thought Elena was selfish or something; I thought she was annoying for different reasons :'D Although, I can't really recall them anymore. She just used to get on my nerves. Mainly bc main character syndrome, I believe, not bc she was supposedly selfish or anything like that
In defense of Caroline in the "how dare she judge Elena for loving Damon when she hooked up with Klaus." In the first moments of Klaroline, Team Elena were pushing Caroline to flirt and distract Klaus so they can do their plot to kill him, fully knowing that Klaus "fancied"" her. And even despite all that, she never hooked up with him. She repeatedly rejected him BECAUSE she knew he was a horrible person. She was kinder to him than the rest of them because he was different around her. The only time she hooked up with him was in the woods when Katherine was dying. And after that, she made him promise not to come back to MF. She never sought him out even though she knew where he was. Even though she has real feelings for him. How do I know this? She kept the voicemail he sent her, inviting her to join him in NOLA. Kept it for YEARS. Just everything she showed in the TO finale. Caroline DID have genuine feelings for Klaus but she never acted on it outside of when they needed her to be the blonde distraction and the only hookup in the woods. But Elena didn't have that issue with Damon. So, yeah that's the difference between the two of them.
Nooo Caroline is one of my top favorites. She didn't want Elena with Damon cause Damon literally abused Caroline.. idk how Elena could date Damon after that.
After Elena turned her humanity off she never really felt like the same character, even after she turned it back on. It just felt like she had a lot more depth in seasons 1-4. Seasons 5-6 she just felt like such a bland character
I liked human Elena, not my fave but when she became a vampire? Couldnt stand her. I liked no humanity Elena, kinda wanted her to stay that way actually.
My only problem with Elena is in season 4 when she is just casually talking about killing Kol and his entire sire line as a 'means to an end'. it is so out of character for her.
Yes I know, I still think it was a mistake on the writers part because Caroline would never even have hooked up with him (I think actually we found out that later the writers knew this and they were never meant to be a thing)
I agree that most of the hate human Elena receives is unwarranted. Unfortunately, the writers ruined her character from season 4 onwards when they had her get together with Damon. I don't mind how Elena acted in season 4 - she had just turned into a vampire, was sired to Damon and was still trying to navigate her new life as a vampire. Most of her actions in season 4 are explainable. What is not explainable is how Elena never acknowledged how horrible she was becoming and never sought to find her way back to her old self. That would have made an interesting storyline and the writers could have redeemed her character. My only criticism about human Elena is that she was willing to kill an Original and, therefore, an entire bloodline of vampires. That completely undermined her compassionate nature. I do think this is a result of lazy writing, though. The same thing happened in season 4, only this time she actually assisted in killing Kol. I also think this was a mistake - no matter how horrible Elena had become, she would never have agreed to the killing of an entire bloodline.
I don't get when people say every guy was in love with her like no they weren't it was only Stefan, Damon and some other guy I forgot his name but every other guy was either her friend, relative or wanted to kill her. Meanwhile Caroline slept with a new guy in every season
Elena seems like a person who has a narrative in her head of how her life should look and Damon is not that look. Stefan is what she mentally wants and when she gets it she is shocked that hes not like the fairytale in her head.
I have a question for you: As an aspiring TH-cam Essayist how do you record these videos in one take? I can’t speak for more than 2 minutes without getting winded. Any advice?
It depends on the topic! Sometimes if I feel confident in it or if it’s a more casual video I can speak for ages in one take; but other times I prepare and read a whole script. It can take weeks or even months of practice
And you don’t have to necessarily do it in one take for it to be a successful video! I think my favourite videos are the highly planned and scripted ones
The other reasons why the sire line storyline is so bad is because a big theme with Elena in season 2 and 1 is her autonomy and how Stefan was the one of the 2 who respected that. And is one of the reasons why she was hesitant about Damon. But then they do this.
One of the reasons why I grown to dislike Elena is because she is always very passive, she never seams to know what she wants, or how she feels, she never seams able to do anything for herself. But yeah the writters did her dirty here as they did pretty much all the other characthers. And she never seams to suffer any consequence for her actions either.
I accidentally came across your video but am so glad I did! Absolutely great video, and dare I say voice of the reason even? Because I wasn't exactly a fan of Elena (tho I quite liked her), and yet I found all the hate to be out of proportion at best and making no sense at worst. Like you don't have to like her per se but to act like she is the worst character on the show (mind you usually as a person and not even writing-wise) is hard to understand for me. Like yes, the writers did her wrong, especially in season 4th and onward but they also destroyed pretty much everyone else, to the point where I personally stopped watching around the middle of season 6. The funny thing is that I was always a delena girl, because I did find them more interesting, and yet my favorite seasons are 1-3 (and liked 4 till like a half?). You raised a lot of interesting points or counterarguments to the most common reason people hate Elena which I totally agree with. Especially the one about Caroline because she literally similar thing one could argue worse even, by being with Klaus. Like she had no reason to act all judgy towards her, I'm sorry. It really became kinda full circle because ppl started not liking her for whatever reason and because they didn't like her they weren't willing to extend the same grace to her they did to other characters they did like (as you pointed out with Damon, and Klaus etc. who did much worse things) and then judged her more harshly for less than others. Also funny thing how she was considered Mary Sue and the worst, most selfish person at the same time by fandom. Like she is supposed to have some flaws and make mistakes, and irrational decisions sometimes, she is a teen (God forbid a female character has a flaw/ make a mistake/ is unlikable/ bad friend for a second). Also, she definitely has from the start of the show (because of the accident where her parents died) survivor's guilt which actually explains a lot of her actions. And even later on, she IS the reason why Klaus and the originals even come to town (and before that Salvatore brothers and Katherine) she again feels guilty, but it wasn't even her fault, she was just existing. If anything it would be the brothers' fault for putting her in the middle of it all, tho of course we wouldn't have a show without it. To put it simply her greatest flaw for the longest time was that she could be a little annoying sometimes... (I don't want to start another topic but intrestengly enough with celebrities it's quite similar situation - there is usually more backlash for female celebrity who is 'annoying'/ we don't like rn (mostly cuz it's trendy) than male celebrities who actually did something problematic, hmm). They really did her a disservice but not only her, so again it's unfair to act like she is the worst thing/character ever in the show. Oh, and acting annoyed over her being the center of attention when she is literally the main character is just so stupid, I'm sorry. At some point it just became 'trendy' to hate on her imo.
thats what it is. shes the main character but didnt feel like one but also was the focus. so everything that i hated about her was them not giving her depth. we are constantly told she compassionate and ridden with grief but who is she?
Elena annoyed me mostly. I actually preferred Bonnie and even Caroline to her. I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention the fact that Nina and Ian were dating for a good portion of "Delena" and it all falling apart. Maybe we'll get that in a Delena as vid? 😊
I thought that they did too much saying, "Elena's a good person." Without showing us, her selfishness was a very normal thing for a young adult to have in her circumstances, especially because supernatural creatures obsessing over her for any reason was literally why all of their lives went to shit. I just thought that the reason people hated her is because the writers didnt allow any opinions of her to change so while we watched her flaws, we were being serenaded by only her positive traits and it made those flaws extremely apparent. If the writers had allowed the other characters to be realistic about her, like they let the characters be about everyone else, i imagine that the hate wouldve been a lot less
![ทางเดินชีวิต - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ x อ.ไข่ มาลีฮวนน่า [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1f3wcG16dd4/mqdefault.jpg)
The writers are the true villains of The Vampire Diaries.
Absolutely. Good thing one of them had been getting her shows canceled after TVD.
Truer words have never been spoken.
julie plec is more evil than klaus
@@godisjihyo3615 Oh, she is. She even purposely casted a Black girl to play as a character who is a SIave in Vampire Academy.
Julie pllec makes Thanos look like mr Rogers.
@@godisjihyo3615
100% agree that the male characters were much more richly written than the female characters on this show.
Yes, except for Carebear
exactly carebears and katherine to some extent was the only well written female. Elena and BONNIE🥺 deserved better writing.
Wouldn't it be so great if it was Katherine and Stefan
Klaroline
Bonenzo at the end.
@@aladdout9454 true, Bonnie was ok but I feel like they could have gone more into her back story, but Julie Plec you know
I never hated Elena, I just hated what they did do her character, along with everyone else's. The writers seriously sücked on this show.
this!! i actually love her character during the first few seasons !
She was way worse in the books... In the books she really was an airheaded self centred vain prat.... They made her way less of a butthole in the show
I agree, she started out very strong like many of the others did
@@SerenaSkybourne yep, unfortunately she fell victim to julie plecs writing and obsession with making TVD ‘the damon salvatore show’ 😖😖
The problem was the originals. The writers killed a lot of their plans simply because Klaus was popular. They should have sticker to the original plan and kill off Klaus season 3 and move one. The show became stagnant 4-5 then they didn't know what to do after the originals left.
I adore human Elena! She was kind, strong, self-assured, had a life outside of Stefan and Damon, set boundaries, outsmarted vampires on several occasions, stood up for her friends, etc. I could go on! I never understood the hate she received. Vampire Elena, on the other hand, felt like she regressed as a character!
100% agree! But I also blame the writers more than Elena’s character for not knowing how to handle vampire Elena outside of her relationship with Damon
I agree! Vampire Elena became a bit too consumed by her romantic connection with Damon
Same.
I wouldn't even say she's that selfish, I'd say she's self-centered. Whenever anything happens, she immediately assumes it's somehow about her or her fault, but that's kind of understandable too, when you take into account what has happened to her in the early seasons. Her parents died because she'd asked them to pick her up from a party, and because Stefan saved her instead of them (and we know her father could've survived, he was still conscious). It isn't her fault but she probably has some survivor's guilt. Elena was the reason Katherine and Klaus came to Mystic Falls. Katherine came back because she wanted to trade Elena for her freedom. This resulted in Caroline being turned into a vampire, and Tyler's werewolf curse being triggered. Klaus came back literally just because of Elena, because he needed her to break his curse. This resulted in another one of Elena's family members, Jenna, dying. In the very beginning of the show, we know that Stefan stayed in Mystic Falls, again, because of Elena, because he wanted to know her, and then Damon followed and killed a bunch of people. None of that was Elena's fault but people keep being low-key obsessed with her or wanting her for their own reasons. I mean, I'm not really surprised that after all that she got paranoid and started assuming that everything was about her
I read this one description of Elena that I agree with. Elena was selfishly selfless.
Like, every selfless thing she did was inherently selfish too. Like killing Kol and everyone in his sireline. She says it's because Kol was going to kill Jeremy. They need the cure for all vampires. But, really, she had Jeremy kill Kol because she wanted to get the cure because she can't accept that she's now a vampire
One small I thing I would add to the whole "Elena is a bad friend because of what Damon did to Caroline" (which was definitely brushed over in the show) is that Klaus not only tried to kill Elena, he also killed her aunt Jenna (and her ex boyfriend, Tyler's mother, I forget about it all the time) And Caroline still hooked up with him. So she really doesn't get the moral high ground.
she shouldn’t have slept with him, but caroline didn’t pursue a relationship with klaus, and she didn’t expect her best friends to be happy about it. she was very ashamed whereas elena wasn’t at all.
@@lily3_didn’t she tell Tyler to get over it
@@BabyGirlTiny that was because tyler kept acting all self-righteous and throwing it in her face every two minutes. yes she did sleep with the man who killed his mom and that was wrong, but tyler was also a dick to her in their relationship and after, and i don’t even remember an instance where he was all that supportive of her or acted like a real friend. so context matters.
@@lily3_he had every right to throw it in her face lmfao. What do you mean. There is no context for you to claim that Tyler should get over Caroline sleeping with the man that killed his mother.. give that same grace to Elena then
@@BabyGirlTiny i never said he had to get over anything. i gave a reason as to why she said it since you asked. and no i still wouldn’t give that grace to elena because elena wasn’t sorry…like at all. she treated both her friends like the devil because she slept with and was in love with someone her friends see as the devil. whereas caroline acknowledged that she wasn’t right for what she did and literally tells him to leave. so…there’s no context for you to claim that elena is somehow on the same playing field as caroline as far as accountability goes.
I used to pray for a time like this 😂 I had imaginary arguments in my head DEFENDING MISS ELENA back in my TVD days.
Elena is an example of good as a human and bad as a vampire same with Cami from the TO, she was so good as a person and went into crazy ex mode after turning. Caroline is the opposite she shined after turning, same with Hayley
Oh my god yes Camille had so much light, goodness, intelligence, and compassion, but being a vampire sucked the light out of her.
not sure if this was truly what happened behind the scene, but i've heard that them making cami annoying and stuff after turning into a vampire was just an "excuse" to wrote her off the show. since leah had gotten so much hate, which i know at least this part is true, due to her character's relationship with klaus and requested to leave.
Please don't compare Elena and Cami. Cami is way better than Elena.
Just remember Stefan gets a lot of hate for everything but Damon and Klaus give TVD fans a little smile and they forget all bad things. Boring doesn’t make a bad couple, it makes a good couple
Nah boring doesn’t make a good couple. Especially when it comes to something that’s meant to entertain. If this wasn’t a show boring would be good. But because it is a show boring is bad.
Stefan and Elena didn’t need drama, but their personalities when they are together is just boring. Elena shows more personality with Damon, and I’m not even a delena shipper.. I hate Damon.
Stefan and Elena were cute in the beginning, but it started becoming boring when the writers decided that neither of them have a personality around each other.
To me, stefan is at his most interesting, when he’s with Lexi. And i don’t ship them together either. The fact that stefan showed more personality in the one episode with Lexi, shows just how boring they are
It could be that Stefan gives “I’m a good person better than the others” when he isn’t and Damon and Klaus know that they aren’t good people and they don’t try to make people think they are?
@@AshCerto if you say so
Yes the Stefan hate but ppl fall all over themselves for Damon and klaus prob the characters that have done the most horrible things 🤔
@@kloe6095 exactly. That’s why I left at if you so.
Okay, before I watch the whole video, I wanted to write here my personal view on Elena Gilbert.
I actually adored and really loved Elena in the first 3 seasons, it really felt like she is a good friend who loves her friends, and would do anything for them and also her family of course. And I also felt really bad for everything she went through and I kinda still do. And also I think the talent that Nina Dobrev has really helped me to sympathize with her a lot. But after the 4th season I just couldn't stand Elena, she became so insufferable, and I mostly blame Damon for that, and the whole Delena thing(I also hate Damon, but it's a whole another story). It really felt like the writers tried so hard to make them work by changing both Damon and Elena in a way that made no sense and made them worse on their own way. And by the finale I just didn't care about her at all.
And I also wanted to add that I don't really mind characters changing for the worst and being flawed, it's the way that writers trying so hard to make her look like an angel that does no wrong which made me so annoyed all the time.
I whole heartedly agree!
Her story with Damon did drag her character down. Her absolute best was the storyline with Klaus becoming the hybrid. That was peak Elena.
I often think Elena and Damon were a great example of the build up to them getting together was actually better than them finally being together
@beccaf262 yeah, I can see that
I love Elena. I don’t understand why people say she’s selfish when she literally tried to martyr herself dozens of times so nobody else got hurt. You can’t really be selfish and self-sacrificing simultaneously.
I also don’t get the cheating accusations? The only time she really cheated was when she kissed Damon at the end of S2 when he was dying. By the time they kissed again, Stefan had essentially dumped her. He had told her repeatedly he didn’t want her to keep looking for him and to let him go. She actually hung on way longer than most of us would, I think.
Okay, off to finish the second half of the video!
Yeah plus Damon was *DYING* and she had genuine reason to believe he wasn't gonna survive so I kinda excuse it tbh bc it wasn't from a "I want to kiss you" place but a "goodbye friend who ik wants to kiss me before he dies" place xd
Agree!
my issue with Elena isn’t her flaws but the fact that they’re never acknowledged. everyone is flawed but they’re reprimanded. she is selfish and a bad friend but everyone claims otherwise and bc of this she acts above everyone else. the other characters do bad things, it’s acknowledged, and (usually) atoned for but Elena gets away with selfish deeds while being characterized as the victim
So when were Stefan reprimanded for being a terrible person?
When was Bonnie reprimanded for the bad stuff she did?
When was Caroline or Tyler?
The only one whose bad traits are acknowledged is Damon because he was written as the antihero
@@olavihekandjo2928 I feel like you missed my point
@yuckyfairy you said she is flawed but never reprimanded while everyone else is. I'm asking who else is reprimanded.
Elena literally has characters try to change her when she misbehaved or Caroline judge her to her face about her decisions. You have Elena saying she can't hold grudges against people because she too isn't perfect so how exactly are her faults not acknowledged?
And her being a bad friend, give us an example don't mention her being with Damon because Caroline slept with Klaus. Give another example that makes her a bad friend.
I believe the word you're looking for is retcon/retconning. Retroactively changing how stuff happened.
Yep, the big thing for me was them making it so Damon and Elena met first despite that directly contradicting all the interactions in season 1.
That’s the exact word!
That’s what writers of fiction do. They make stuff up.
@@leeanngouttiere9077 yeah except GOOD writers of fiction don’t actively rewrite events that contradict things that were previously written. They add to them, they don’t go back on it.
i feel like elena gets an unfair amount of hate from viewers. i think for the most part the show does a good job of making her a likable, sympathetic character. people always seem bothered by the fact that all of the characters make elena the center of their universe and constantly make sacrifices for her, but thats not her fault...it's theirs. they're all deliberately and purposely choosing to make these sacrifices for her. and there are multiple times throughout the show when she asks them NOT to, or when she is willing to sacrifice herself for the group -- but they always interject and stop her from doing so. the other characters choosing to behave stupidly isn't a reflection of elena, it's a reflection of them.
Thank you! I honestly don’t understand the hate she gets, but the love Katherine does. When you compare the two who is the most self-centered? Especially the stupid excuses Katherine makes when she does something out of pocket. Her excuse is that she’s a survivor but most of her torment has nothing to do with it. Yes, there are moments that Elena has made dumb decisions but I’ve never been against her as a character. People are just hating to hate her. She isn’t purposefully asking to be the center of attention but she’s supposed to be, she’s the MAIN CHARACTER, what do people expect from a female lead? To be sidelined? Honestly, hating her but loving other characters like Katherine, Klaus etc, makes no sense in the realm of her being a whiny character, comparing the two is ridiculous. People just can’t stand her because she’s relatable. Also, they aren’t watching the show through the supernatural lens they are meant too. How can you not feel for a girl that has lost so many people before the age of eighteen? Then on top of that she lost her human life. Like come on, make it make sense.
Right? It’s like viewers getting angry that the characters in Buffy the Vampire Slayer have most of their lives revolve around Buffy and slaying vampires. Like, Buffy is the main character and she kills vampires. The surrounding characters are going to be all up in her business. The same with Elena in TVD, or the Halliwell sisters in Charmed. Side characters always get invested in the main characters and their lives.
The other characters definitely make it all about Elena and that is not entirely her fault. She has issues but so does everybody else. And remember Elena and her friends are all just kids when they were constantly being dated by these older men disguised as vampires, especially her and Caroline.
"I think you found a way to get out of bed this morning, and that makes you the strongest person i know"-Alaric Saltzman to Elena Gilbert
I never understood why some fans didn't like elena to me she was a good character in the first 4 seasons but the writers really messed up in the later seasons i understand why nina decided to leave the show
Nina Dobrev was always signed on for only 6 seasons. She never wanted to go passed that point, I’m not sure why but that’s what she’s said in interviews.
How is Elena saying "don't kill this person you will regret it, I know because I did it and regretted it" how is that making it about herself and not her relating to Caroline?
Because she's using HERSELF as the example instead of saying "Caroline this isn't you. The Caroline we all knew would never hurt someone."
@theashwoodfaerie2 duh. That was literally said. And who else is she supposed to use as an example?
Caroline don't kill this girl, I know a friend of a friend of a cousin of an ex classmate who did the same thing and they regretted it.
Ever heard of drawing from personal experience to try and connect with people? That's what Elena was doing.
Thank you!! Elena turned it off when she was hurting because of a family member as well. She knew instantly that Caroline was going to turn it off. Of course she is going to use personal experience. Like c'mon people.
@KarishmaChanglani other point. Elena didn't choose to turn it off. She asked them to let her keep it off, but of course everyone else had to "help" (actually what they meant was fix) Elena even when she didn't want them to. They couldn't let her just be.
Elena wanting to sacrifice herself while everyone is telling her how stupid she's being while they risk their lives to save her.
Elena wanting to find Stefan while everyone just wants her to pretend and move on.
Elena sad about Jeremy, they force her to shut off her emotions cause sad Elena is no fun.
Elena doesn't want to turn it on. Suddenly, she must be forced to turn it on cause an Elena who puts herself first isn't fun.
My problem isn’t with Elena per say it’s mostly with how the fandom treats her So many ppl in and outside of the show had a problem with Elena marty complex and which tbh I don’t understand I don’t understand how me wanting to risk my live the life of one person to save many more is bad not to mention when ppl call her a cry baby they say she’s always crying and I shit you not I haven’t seen a single scene of Elena crying where that wasn’t the point it was always a sad scene where she’s supposed to cry plus if your whole family is dead that’s shit you think about ya know on your wedding day and shit parents both adopted and birth are dead your aunts dead your brother was dead for a time too like that shits so sad and depressing when you think about it or like when she got Jeremy compelled away like yea it was wrong but to be honest I probably would’ve done the same in her place like is elena right all the time no but she’s a real person who goes thru real struggles that I feel are always downplayed and I’ll always defend Elena great video tho ❤
Also yea I can admit while Elena was annoying as a human she got soooo much worse as a vampire like even I couldn’t stand her at points
Also I highly recommend getting into teen wolf if you like the vampire diaries
I’ve actually seen a lot of commentary that her martyr complex is her being suicidal which makes so much sense. Everyone overlooks how depressed she was. She became withdrawn and lost interest in activities after her parents passed away. She talks about old Elena being more fun. She was very ready to put her life on the line multiple times and was so at peace with drowning to death when she had Stefan save Matt. It really took becoming a vampire for her to value her human life and start dreaming of a future again. Before that, she was repeatedly ready to die and seemed to have survivor’s guilt
Most of the hate she gets is for season 3 when she daggered Rebekah, killed, Kol and Finn, and lied to Elijah which makes no sense since the originals terrorized her.
As for the cheating a Stefan, someone pointed out that Damon compelled Elena to believe she is too good for hom that's why she never acknowledged her feelings until she became a vampire.
I think because Rebekah wanted a friend and was starting to trust Elena. However, Elena had no reason to trust them and didn't know when to believe her. Stefan also allowed Klaus to kill Rebekah and he gets no hate for this so why is Elena different? You can say everybody was horrible to Rebekah. I agree about some of the problems with Elena but this show is a disaster when it came to characters.
I liked elena as well in seasons 1-3 which is what makes me SO sad what they did to her character afterwards. I do blame damon for her regression as well, because he was horrible for her to begin with. Between her transition to vampirism and being with him, changed her for the worst. I also would like to say I hated damon, everyone is so quick to defend him but nothing about him is worth defending
I feel like the biggest reason why Elena feels underdeveloped is because when they took her character from the book they decided to make her good from the beginning, instead of making her a defensive petty mean girl. The whole arc that the original story had for Elena was gotten rid of to make her more 'relatable and likeable' but it had the opposite effect, because the show itself seems to assert that she is perfect and has no need to change.
They kind of gave Elena's book arc to Caroline, in the show. It made Caroline likeable and stunted Elena's character
At least in the early seasons, Elena pretended she wasn't a self-centered ghoul! After Season 4, Elena becomes completely self-centered and whiny! I tried to cut Elena a little slack during her Vampire transition season, but how she treated Caroline bugged me!
that is of course the truest truth
Caroline always tried to steal Stefan away from Elena and she sucked at keeping secrets and she was shallow and a hypocrite by saying Elena was wrong to be with Damon but then Caroline turns around and sleeps with Klaus.
@@AngelicMistyStorm To be fair to Caroline, Damon did r*pe her. And yes, Klaus killed Elena so what Caroline did wasn't right either (it was mostly done to please the klaroline shippers tbh) but least she didn't actually get with the guy.
@@gregoryschweitzer1735 Klaus did more then kill elena Klaus killed elena aunt and Tyler’s mom that’s why Tyler got so upset with Caroline. Plus Elena & Damon was also forced. Elena & Stefan should have been endgame. #stelena
@@AngelicMistyStorm I admittedly forgot about Jenna since she is rarely if ever brought up again. And him killing Tyler's mother and then Caroline sleeping with him is something between Caroline and Tyler and a legitimate reason for him to be mad which is why I didn't bring it up. I agree that Damon and Elena felt very forced at times. But I personally don't like Stefan and Elena either. Partly due to the travellers casting that spell that draws the doppelgangers together. But mostly because it low-key would freak me out being with someone who was with someone who looked exactly like me and while Katherine and Stefan was sexual assault due to her compulsions on him, it would bother me a lot. I don't understand how Elena is able to be with two guys that were with Katherine
My problem with Elena is how her flaws are never acknowledged, instead, they're covered up to make her something she is not. The writers also, messed up her character a lot. In the first 2-3 seasons, I loved her, even when she made mistakes. After, that the writers just messed up her character. I personally feel, like the old Elena would have never done what the vampire Elena did. Like
- being with Damon. While, her and Damon had great chemistry and all. Damon KILLED her brother, when she rejected him, He forced himself upon her multiple times. He SA'ed and abused her Best Friend. I always thought in the earlier seasons that there would be a thing with Elena and Damon but it would never be a actual relationship because of all the things he had done (kinda like how Klaroline was ). Also, in season 6, after Damon "died", she started using these magical drugs to hallucinate him knowing that is caused her to attack other people and even killing them, which was so out of character. And when Stefan, slept with Rebekah, she judged him so hard and told him that he shouldn't have done it because Rebekah tried to kill her ( after she pretended to be her friend and then stabbed her in the back literally and figuratively and in a vulnerable moment. And I know, that she did it for a reason but she never bothered to apologize or explain herself to Rebekah) WHILE she sleeping with someone who had ACTUALLY killed her brother. And Damon sleeping with her mother before her is just so icky.
- She was so selfless and caring in the earlier season and then she went to go make a plan to kill thousands and thousands of vampires just to get a cure. Season 1, Elena would have absolutely hated being a vampire and she would have looked for the cure, but when she would have found out that her being human meant killing so many people, she would have NEVER done it.
- She was so mad at Stefan, who was looking for a cure for her ( and not because he thought she was a broken toy or a project of whatever but because he KNEW that the last thing Elena ever wanted was to be a vampire, especially since she mentioned it so many times in the previous seasons) when he made Jeremy kill newly turned vampires ( who were horrible people), which meant they couldn't harm Jeremy very much and even if they tried, Stefan was there for supervision and then she went on the make an entire plan to get Jeremy to go kill an ORIGINAL( and yeah I know that Kol was after them, but he also promised to leave them all alone as long as they left the cure alone, but they did it anyways and released another dangerous creature to go kill other innocent people)
- She started becoming a bad friend in later seasons ( yes, I know other characters were bad friends too, and I'm not defending them either).
Like, she slept with Damon, and Caroline completely judged her for it ( and she had every right to, that was her best friend, sleeping with someone who SA'ed and abused her for weeks ). And when Caroline called her out for it, Elena quite literally slut shamed her for sleeping with Damon when they did. When, she turned off her humanity, she was horrible to Caroline, and when she turned it back on, she never bothered to apologize to her about it, and when asked to, she just said, that she didn't want to take responsibility for it and didn't want to recall it and brushed it over.
YESSS! THANK YOU! I hated how the show never fully addressed Damon's horrible actions during the seasons or held him accountable. And What I hated even more is how Elena kept making excuses for him. When the old Elena would've wanted nothing more than for Damon to be punished for his crimes. Damon is not only murderer he's also an abuser and a r#pist . He killed Jeremy, he turned Vicky and Elena's mom, he tried to force himself on Elena MULTIPLE TIMES, emotionally abused Caroline and SA'ed her and Andy. But the show keeps trying to pass him off as some misunderstood hero when that title belongs to Tyler. Better man my ass.
Elena is one of my favorite characters ever and there's nothing I hate more than people hating characters for crying a lot in response to awful situations so I am SAT for this
I agree, I would be crying allll the time if I was her 😂
Fr
Elena was super brave. and she actually took action to try to protect her friend.
As some who's lost a parent, Elena did pretty well for a teen orphan. Seasons 1-4 happen over the course of three years post-car accident. Personally, I don't think Elena's shock about Stefan moving on is because she's selfish. They both sacrificed so much for each other at the peril of their relationships with other characters. She moved on with his brother (yikes) who also expressed an even more extreme level of love and devotion. Stefan moving on with Rebecca who is the direct cause of Elena being forced into transition because she prioritized her old ass, immortal family over the lives of child orphans is a huge red flag for Stefan. If Elena never turned, her and Stefan probably would've stayed together longer and broken up over something else but the writers wanted Delena so bad. Elena-haters' biggest enemy is context and as someone who loved Delena as a teen, I just have to turn off my feminist brain to actually enjoy TVD and TO.
I think the problem was that she got involved with Damon who was no better than how Stefan was acting at the time and he literally tortured and abused her friend. Stefan was absolutely horrible in S3 and I don't blame her for breaking up with him but getting into a toxic relationship with Damon was not good for her either. I just wish she had found someone who truly loved her because she was Elena and not Katherine.
Thank you for taking the time to make this. In depth and brilliant. I never hear anyone defend Elena. ❤
I think people forget that Elena is a teenager who experienced a lot of trauma and that stunted her in some ways, this applies to most of the main characters as well. However, the writers also forget that from time to time and the lack of consistency is why there is so much room for fan disagreements. It’s hilariously frustrating how cherry picked most people’s opinions are because the show was all over the place and contradicted itself on a regular basis.
She went through trauma with her parents dying and her biological father and mother coming back into her life causing havoc and then her father, who in my opinion was the only person who actually tried to protect her from being used in the war between the vampires as everyone's object, dies and her aunt is killed right in front of her. She has to take care of her brother and is taken advantage by these older vampires who see her as a replacement for their previous love interest. This girl needed therapy but was put through more trauma by a bunch of feuding adults who should have known better than to use a child for their own goals and she is stuck in her dysfunctional relationship with Damon at the end. She honestly did deserve a lot better from the writers as did Caroline and Bonnie.
@bethbrown8249 Thank you! I always have to chuckle at the heated arguments and long essays in the comments sections, and would mostly just like to reply: It's not that deep. The writers often seemed to not know themselves what they were going for, and were not very consistent with their caracter arks. 😅
My biggest problem with Elena is her hypocrisy.
Elena almost ALWAYS makes excuses and denies her wrongdoings.
My problem with Elena is not her doing bad things but the writers insisting that she’s “such a good person” and “can do no wrong.” If the writers actually embraced Elena being a flawed character and making bad decisions I think she would’ve been a more likable character
A small comparison to Katherine-
Katherine is a very loved character even though objectively she is a very terrible person. Katherine typically owns up to her evil deeds bc she knows she's a bad person and has done terrible things so she embraces it.
exactly this
She was for sure hypocritical, like taking away Jeremy’s memories twice and then not liking being left out of the loop herself
@@SerenaSkybourne which she got called out for and ultimately did to protect her little brother.
How is Elena a hypocrite when she literally keeps telling people she can't judge them because she too has done bad things.
The one character that literally never judges anyone.
I do agree that is annoying along with everybody's worship of her.
I actually liked Elena and never understood why so many people gave her crap. She dated both brothers, which is the worst she did. Yes, it was wrong, but Carolina dated practically everyone on the show and no one seems to get annoyed with her for it. Carolina was a terrible friend to Elena, always secretly jealous of her. Plus, in friend code, you don't date your friend's ex, but Carolina dated Stefan, who was Elena's ex. And let's not forget, Carolina hooked up with Klaus after he killed her boyfriend's mom. The only person who probably kept to friend codes and was a decent person is Bonnie.
I mean Elena dated Damon after Damon abused Caroline, idk how she could get past that.
Bonnie was the only one who had some sense but was ignored in favor of the more problematic characters. (Cough, Damon, cough)
Oh, I *just* came home! Perfect timing for me, I'll destress with this video. ☺️
Only 2 minutes in, but I don't know what people are talking about. Elena most certainly is not narcissistic. If anything, she's pathologically self-sacrificing.
Edit: 15 minutes in, and regarding people saying that she makes everything about her -- no sweaty, she's just the protagonist. She's the main character, and the writers make everything about her. I think you just have a problem with narratives as a concept.
Totally agree
that's true too
@@angelaholmes8888 The amount of times in the show where I'm just thinking: "Elena, shut up and let people resolve this in a way that doesn't require you directly handing yourself over to the enemy every single time."
Also, I have watched a lot of reactors groan whenever Elena makes a decision and call her dumb but when she's proven right, they just don't acknowledge it.
For example, when she went to the vampire house to save Stefan, or when she made her first deal with Elijah or when she woke up Elijah...
Bonnie constantly sacrificing herself and dying so that Jeremy won’t die and Elena won’t lose a brother her last family is what’s everything wrong with the writers writing about Elena and people around her. And why they don’t like her. Totally justifiable. Everyone protecting elena and her feelings and everything being about her LIKE EVERYTHING is absurd snd not realistic and unfair. Bonnie went thru A LOT and she wasn’t treated special even though she is the one who had actual magical powers??!!!!! Her character sucks.
never clicked so fast on a notification
I truly can’t watch the show anymore because I truly hate the Damon character and it’s Julie Plec and Caroline Dries fought. Kevin Williamson, season 1- season 4 episode 1 head writer and show runner, wrote a true believable love triangle and it came to a end starting season 4 episode 2
Am I the only one who doesn't see it as Elena making it to be about herself when she told Caroline what it was like for her when she turned off her humanity?
I just see it as Elena telling about her experiences of something she has been through and didn't Stefan also do that to Elena when she turned off her humanity? I know that when people make the same mistake as me and I share experiences of it, I don't do it to make things about me, only to tell them about the consequences it can have and how you can feel etc, I mean don't we all share our experience about things we gone trough with people in the same situations 🤷♀
14:18 "weirdly obsessed with her" - shows a picture that includes Elena's brother, her step-uncle & a guy who doesn't actually hook up with her lol
😂😂
Can't wait for a Caroline Forbes video
Damon and Stefan were never really that developp after season 3. Stefan being reducing to the hero who is somehow, because of Julie Plec obssession for Damon, responsable for everything that Damon does and Damon being this on-off villain-hero that just go kill someone when Elena piss him off (something that Ian was tired of ). They are just loved because the actors are charming but the writing is poorly handled. Klaus developpement tho is fantastic
Elena Gilbert is honestly one of my favorite characters on TVD, sure she was annoying at times but she was always one of my favorite characters on the show, mainly because of Nina’s amazing portrayal of her, I do think that the writers really messed up her character in later seasons though. I don’t blame Nina for leaving the show
I’m not sure I’d say it wasn’t true she didn’t love Damon in that moment because it’s possible to know something and continue lying to yourself and everyone in your life. I almost feel like the part where it turns out she met Damon first felt a little more retconned if anything
I wanted to write a long ass comment explaining why people dislike Elena... then I remembered I'm Katherine Pierce.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
You know when Elena was talking to Caroline when she planned to turn off her humanity, I never saw it as Elena making it about herself. I always thought she was trying to warn her about the possible mistakes she would make by giving her a personal example. To be honest there aren't that many moments where Elena makes things about herself (from my memory anyway. Though I haven't watched it in a while, nor do I plan to,) and when she does it's always understandable since it usually DOES have something to do with her.
I also never really saw that much of a change from human Elena to vampire Elena, but everyone else has and it's making me wonder what exactly they're seeing that I'm not. She seemed more ruthless and I guess emotional or outspoken, but nothing dramatic like tvd fans seem to think, and now that you mentioned it, her character wasn't expanded on. We don't know ANYTHING about her. Her character changed to fit the plot. For instance that whole thing with her father being an Augustine member and how she dealt with it truly shocked me. I was like "This isn't Elena. It can't be 😅."
Also, I never really cared much for Katherine. I didn't dislike her but I didn't like her Either. The fact that she ended up being their last "big bad" seemed completely ridiculous to me. Idk, honestly I don't think she should've stayed that long.
Also, I was shocked when many of the fans mentioned (in their fanfics) that Damon was a ra▪︎ist, especially since there weren't any hints dropped or anything. I feel like Caroline's reaction would've been MUCH more severe than it was. I can only assume this thought comes about from the scene when he first attacks her. If so it's understandable, but I thought he killed her and when it was discovered he didn't I assumed she passed out and he only fed from her which Is what I believe they tried to show.
Also, I just realized out of the Salvatore brothers, Stefan is the only one implied to have killed young children, while Damon didn't (but was lead to believe otherwise.) I wish this would've been expanded on. I feel like TVD could've been darker, with most vampires being morally grey and maybe when Elena became a vampire or even Caroline, we could've seen her changing morality. I think it would've been interesting and with the existence of compulsion and vampires' general physical superiority, darker themes could've been explored. I've only read two fanfics that depicted the Salvatores, Elena and her gang as morally grey and found it refreshing and fascinating and even added novel elements (specifically vampire powers. Sadly it only appeared briefly.) Also psychic's in the novel seemed to be able to cast spells and I feel like that could've been incorporated well.
Lastly, I feel like they should've handled Elena's blood differently. Since doppelganger blood was used to create vampires, I like the thought of it having some influence over them (maybe enhancing their powers or siring them to her, etc.) IDK, I guess I kinda wish she had powers or something. Since her blood was so powerful, show it. Maybe her blood could boost all spells. Maybe she could create vampires of her own, perform blood magic, or have vampiric abilities while being technically human. Heck she could've been a psychic for all I care, I wished that gave us SOMETHING.
Haah~ That's all I gotta say. If a skilled fanfic writer is seeing this, PLEASE write something that incorporates these themes. (Moral ambiguity, mature rating, Elena with powers Oh! And some elements from the novel (specifically the powers of vampires.)
This is actually a really good explanation of how I feel about Elena. I never thought she was a horrible person. At least, no worse than the rest of the characters. I mean… we have a group of sexy serial killers on our hands, let’s all calm down. I love them, too, but Elena is so far from the worst person here! I admittedly stopped watching the show after the whole sire plot ruined Delena because even if I shipped them after that, it felt like they had stripped Elena of her autonomy in a way that they couldn’t come back from. The retcon of “you can only be sired if you were in love with them” is so messy, too, because that has interesting implications for our boy Tyler, don’t you think? 😂
I feel like shows with an ensemble cast and a defined main protagonist, it’s pretty common for that character to get hated on. I see this issue mostly with female led shows more often because that’s what I like to watch. When it’s a long running show and you have dealt with most of the main character issues it would be natural to give some attention to the others. If done well, their main plot points would be weaved in slowly, foreshadowing it. You see the main character being helped by their friends and now you can see them being a friend back. Exploring the world through these characters, making sure the overall theme is the same while still giving interesting conflict to the other characters. The only show I can think of ( as I’m writing this ) with well balanced ensemble cast is Avatar the last air bender (the animated version).
Otherwise the hate is usually oh I like this character better, I wish I was following their journey instead. Which is not a fair criticism to the character in question. Still I understand the feeling because there is a lack of variety in main characters. The stories that get made or chosen to be adapted usually follow a formula for their main character but that’s a writing issue. I know there is behind the scenes problems that play into this as well but most of the time, instead of hating a character I’m usually like this is clearly a writing issue.
Can you do a Buffy video if you watched it or another charmed video
Can't wait for your take on Katherine Pierce ❤🖤
also, i don't see how anyone can have an issue with elena's selfishness and be okay with damon's. damon is incredibly selfish and constantly acts in his own self interest throughout the show, regardless of who it hurts. i mean the man killed jeremy just because he felt slighted by elena rejecting him. he constantly throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way. fans are way more forgiving of his selfish antics than they are of elena's.
She’s a woman.
People will forgive male characters, not female characters.
I've been waiting to hear your opinion on elena gilbert after Bonnie video. Let go
My biggest issue with Elena is how everyone was willing to die for her. I get wanting to save your friend, but to die for your friend? that’s way too much. I get Damon and stefan but not anyone else.
That and her personality was generic. Which, as I properly watch the show I don’t hate her as much as I did when ive only seen glimpses of it. But she’s still not a character I can say I liked. I don’t hate her anymore, and can admit she’s a pretty okay character.
But I’m in season 4 so that could change
i liked elena a lot when i started watching the show and that’s all because of Nina. But i completely agree the reason why the fans didn’t like her.
First main characters are always getting shit on especially the right chosen one, because fans hate on main characters especially when they are in comparison with other characters. Like Elena with Caroline and Stefan with Damon. Fans hate when the writers try to shove it in down our throats that this character is better then this one and ofc we are gonna feel for the characters that are more insecure like Care and Damon. That’s one.
So then we have two gorgeous brothers in love with her and trying to keep her alive and would burn the world for her which sometimes included elena‘s friends. So ofc everyone is annoyed and jealous of that because we have Bonnie and Caroline in the other hand too.
And Caroline and Bonnie went trhough shit but sometimes alone BONNIE especially even more, but she didn’t have Stefan and Damon or others to be there for her and baby her and care for her. Her pain and her suffering went under the rug, she wasn’t allowed to have feelings and to retaliate when they did they treated her as a villain and annoying. But Elena is treated as this breakable object that we should protect constantly and she was allowed to have feelings of not even being able to choose a brother in s3 and they went along with it. Everything was about her and yeah she is the main character but everyone tried to save her and her problems so that she can be okay and that’s fucling annoying bc bonnie didn’t have that support system and sometimes caroline too. And that’s the writers being obsessed with Elena and Nina. They tried soooo much to insert her everywhere even when she wasn’t in this show, they tried so hard to make her as this special amazing person when she is just okay and should have been treated like that. Bc bonnie or caroline are much better characters or the same as elena so it’s just ridiculous to put her at this crazy pedestal and that’s what’s annoying. She was just a normal girl same as caroline and bonnie and yet she was treated as this amazing special girl that everyone loves and would sacrifice themselves for her and it’s only about her pain and her loss and her feelings and how special she is and yes she is a crybaby and a damsel in distress that everyone is saving whether emotionally or physically. That’s annoying. I hated s5 but i liked that they inserted the doppelgänger storyline of elena and stefan being destined to fall in love and how that started everything to the point of elena and stefan falling in love in s1 which starts everything. So it makes her a little grounded that she wasn’t that special. And i liked that she fell for Damon which is something not planned. I like that stroyline. And i didn’t like that Elena fell off and from s5 on she wasn’t treated as a heroine of the story and main character but rather just damon‘s girlfriend and it was all about their relationship drama. This is the part i didn’t like. But at the same time i liked that she started messin up and it felt more normal, she wasn’t treated as that special special character anymore, not in the same way anyway, but then she started being very annoying and also worse so it’s the same circle. She also was being worse then before but also better. And Katherine is the better one because she had NO ONE to save her and baby her and sacrifice themselves for her(apart from some guys, but she manipulated them and accept it not like it was with elena as if she is that special and amazing and that’s just the way it is). Even Klaus was a manchild but Katherine‘s family was killed, and she had to run for so long and she saved herself countless times and didn’t have a family like Klaus or friends and people like elena to save them. And she still was treated bad in comparison with Elena but people still like Kath more bc she is the real one. And she is inspiring tbh. So that’s why people don’t like Elena. She was treated special, everything was abt her and her feelings and everyone sacrificeing themselves for her and it was annoying when you have other characters like kath bonnie caroline who didn’t get the same grace. But i personally liked Elena being easy going and she is just cute and likes having fun and has relationship problems with damon in s5 and that felt a little realistic but still it was a downfall of her character.
Can't lie, I'm not Elena's biggest fan but I think that's mostly because of her dynamic with the Salvatores. Their habit of bulldozing right over her just because they think they know best doesn't get nearly enough pushback, which is annoying because we know that Elena is more than capable of making herself heard.
Maybe if they didn't tend to make everything worse, it wouldnt bother me so much but, then again, I'm a hardcore Salvatore hater so maybe not...
I’m sorry but I actually really enjoyed elena , I don’t get why ppl hated on her , like she didn’t ask to be the doppelgänger and all the chaos that fallowed, ppl say she’s annoying but like what young teen isn’t, yes she’s obviously going to make mistakes and not have a clear vision on things she young and shes sone one that has suffered a lot of loss , yes she can be a but ungrateful, annoying, and sometimes a bit unlikable but I still very much enjoyed her character and a good lead
I’m such a fan of hers!
Yay an actual positive Elena Gilbert video.
Elena has the anxious/dissociative attachment style. Maybe Borderline personality mixed in. The trauma and loss she went through, mixed with the almost flip-flopping of her actions / emotions and morals is so clear!! I suppose it’s a matter of personal perspective but I don’t think the writers intended on doing that but it makes sense in retrospect. Just food for thought 😂
I’m borderline I don’t see it for her. What she does have is survivor’s guilt and pathological grief that instead of going to therapy she got into harmful relationships with vampires. The Salvatores should have left
2:24 I never interpreted her reaction like that 🤔 I always thought that she said "are you trying to hurt me?" Because Stefan chose Rebekah to try to move on. You know, the person that killed Elena and that's why she became a vampire. Of all the women in Mystic Falls he chose Rebekah, who killed Elena. On the other hand, of all the men in Mystic Falls, Elena chose Damon, Stefan's brother so... Who is she to judge?? 😅
Proof of the brilliance of Nina Dobrev: I absolutely could NOT stand Elena, and yet I cannot help but LOVE Katherine.
I remember when Caroline turned her humanity off and Elena made it about her. Bonnie’s grams died because of the tomb spell and her mum became a vampire because of Esther. Not everything was her fault though she is extremely self centred and to be honest I liked Katherine more when I rewatched the show each time. She definitely had a reason for being selfish though she suffered so much loss every time Elena cried on screen I cried too 😭
She absolutely did not make Caroline turning her humanity off about her. She was trying to use personal experience to convince Caroline she was making bad choices but that’s not making it about her.
This I the dumbest take ever. If you are an recovering drug addict and saw someone about to start taking drugs, would you not try to talk them out of it by talking about your own struggle with drugs.? How is that making it about you.
Are we forgetting that she's also the only one to understand Caroline and suggest they just leave her alone if she's not hurting anyone. Which is different to how everyone treated Elena when she turned her humanity off.
@@olavihekandjo2928 if you are so incompetent that you can’t understand my point I think you have bigger issues than my “horrible take”. Your so called “take” makes zero sense. Drugs vs killing and torture? I think not. The fact that multiple characters on the show had to tell elena that she is not the end all and be all of life is telling. You can’t convince me otherwise.
@MATTELMADE again. Elena didn't make the situation about her. I Didnt understand your take? You literally said she made it about herself. And that's a lie. Elena pulled from personal experience.
Don't do it, you will regret it. I went through the same thing and regretted making that same decision.
I used an example from real life because we don't have vampires in the real world. So, drug use compared to turning off their humanity.
@MATTELMADE
Just because other characters said it doesn't mean they were right.
When Rebekah first said it, she was literally only inviting Matt to their party to hurt him as revenge against Elena.
When Stefan said it, he just had sex with Elena's killer in an effort to hurt Elena while also trying to use Rebekah to get to the cure for Elena.
When Caroline said, she was has Elena running around trying to save a girl that Caroline was about to kill, and Elena just pulled from personal experience to try and talk Caroline out of it.
The same things you listed to why Elena is selfless other characters did more selfless acts. It’s not sexism Damon never said he was a good guy we as the viewers are not meant to see him as a good guy But Elena it’s shoved down our throats that’s she’s a good girl that’s the difference.. we don’t overlook her trauma we don’t bring it up because the show never lets us forget it. We watch Bonnie, Caroline, Tyler etc go through Trauma every season their trauma is overlooked. Damn Jeremy lost his parents too. He lost his Aunt & Uncle too! All of his girlfriends died!! his trauma is overlooked. This video is giving white guilt. You’re literally grasping for straws trying to defend her
true
Elena lost everyone within a year of each other and she was orphaned twice. Nobody cares about Caroline's blonde bitch trauma she should have stayed dead when Katherine killed her. Elena lost more than everyone. People having trauma doesn't mean her trauma should be ignored either
What kills me is when people on Reddit complain she’s a cry baby and weak. She lost her entire family in traumatic ways- she’s allowed to cry. And she also stabbed herself in the stomach to save her friends with Elijah, sacrificed herself in a ritual (it wasn’t her fault her friends kept interfering- she was okay with sacrificing herself), started to slit her own throat to test Ric, and much more all while HUMAN. People don’t give her enough credit for all she did as a human with no powers
13:33 -- Klaus didn't just try to kill Elena, he did kill Elena. Also Jenna and Jules. Elena was bought back by the spell that John gets Bonnie do causing his life to be linked to Elena's.
i don’t even think her comment to no humanity caroline was an example of selfishness. she was just trying to relate to her and get through to her. saying “hey i’ve been through this situation and it’s awful” isn’t centering yourself. it’s an attempt to reach the other person by displaying empathy through proof of similar experiences. elena was always the center of each plot because she was a doppelgänger. so when people argue she made everything about her it was so annoying because it literally WAS about her. caroline was a far worse character, albeit she had great character development, but she doesn’t get nearly as much hate.
Also I think the term for changing things that they already established is 'retcon' (I think that's how it's spelled, I've never had to write it before)
For me the difference between Caroline and Elena is this: Yes, Caroline hooks up with Klaus but she NEVER dated him. She never threw Klaus on Elena's face and she even felt guilty afterwards. Elena made the choice to actively date the man who abused her friend and killed her brother. To me this is more a writers thing so I dont really blame Elena. At this point they want Delena to happen so bad that they actually make Caroline come across as insufferable because she A) her best friend is having feelings for her abuser and B) at this point she just learned she has been sired and therefore she thinks that she is being manipulated by Damon. But instead of having a moment with Elena and Caroline having a conversation of how Damon treated Caroline and her trauma with him, and Elena seeing her POV in this, the writers just make Caroline annoying and turn her into the bad guy for not supporting her friend. It also really bugs me that the writers dont really let her have flaws. All the flaws we see do not exist in the context of the show, which means that those flaws are not intentional. They want Elena to be most compassionate person ever, but she actually has moments where she is not, where she does some things that were kind of crazy - killing Kol for instance knowing that it would kill many vampires. Just a season earlier she was telling Esther how wrong this was. And I think one episode prior to this Stefan gave a whole speech about how bad she would feel if she killed Rebekah. And yet, Elena wants to kill all these vampires and no one disagrees? Its so weird.
love your vids!🫶🏻
In conclusion: The vampire diaries writers had no idea what to do with their characters, I don't like Elena but she had potential
How do you think they should've written Elena?
uff, it's been so long since I watched this show, I used to love it as a teen, tho. Never thought Elena was selfish or something; I thought she was annoying for different reasons :'D Although, I can't really recall them anymore. She just used to get on my nerves. Mainly bc main character syndrome, I believe, not bc she was supposedly selfish or anything like that
In defense of Caroline in the "how dare she judge Elena for loving Damon when she hooked up with Klaus."
In the first moments of Klaroline, Team Elena were pushing Caroline to flirt and distract Klaus so they can do their plot to kill him, fully knowing that Klaus "fancied"" her. And even despite all that, she never hooked up with him. She repeatedly rejected him BECAUSE she knew he was a horrible person. She was kinder to him than the rest of them because he was different around her.
The only time she hooked up with him was in the woods when Katherine was dying. And after that, she made him promise not to come back to MF. She never sought him out even though she knew where he was. Even though she has real feelings for him. How do I know this? She kept the voicemail he sent her, inviting her to join him in NOLA. Kept it for YEARS. Just everything she showed in the TO finale.
Caroline DID have genuine feelings for Klaus but she never acted on it outside of when they needed her to be the blonde distraction and the only hookup in the woods.
But Elena didn't have that issue with Damon. So, yeah that's the difference between the two of them.
Nooo Caroline is one of my top favorites. She didn't want Elena with Damon cause Damon literally abused Caroline.. idk how Elena could date Damon after that.
He also r@ped her. (Caroline!) Caroline had every right to be angry with Elena.
I am a elena gilbert defender
After Elena turned her humanity off she never really felt like the same character, even after she turned it back on. It just felt like she had a lot more depth in seasons 1-4. Seasons 5-6 she just felt like such a bland character
I liked human Elena, not my fave but when she became a vampire? Couldnt stand her. I liked no humanity Elena, kinda wanted her to stay that way actually.
I think I only like her because the actress that plays her is my fav 😅
My only problem with Elena is in season 4 when she is just casually talking about killing Kol and his entire sire line as a 'means to an end'. it is so out of character for her.
Karoline hooked up with klaus…she didn’t have a relationship with him despite being strongly attracted to him. 🤷🏼♀️
Yes I know, I still think it was a mistake on the writers part because Caroline would never even have hooked up with him (I think actually we found out that later the writers knew this and they were never meant to be a thing)
@@SerenaSkybourne yes…the show became tedious in the latter seasons. However the chemistry between karoline and klaus was 🔥😍
I agree that most of the hate human Elena receives is unwarranted. Unfortunately, the writers ruined her character from season 4 onwards when they had her get together with Damon. I don't mind how Elena acted in season 4 - she had just turned into a vampire, was sired to Damon and was still trying to navigate her new life as a vampire. Most of her actions in season 4 are explainable. What is not explainable is how Elena never acknowledged how horrible she was becoming and never sought to find her way back to her old self. That would have made an interesting storyline and the writers could have redeemed her character.
My only criticism about human Elena is that she was willing to kill an Original and, therefore, an entire bloodline of vampires. That completely undermined her compassionate nature. I do think this is a result of lazy writing, though. The same thing happened in season 4, only this time she actually assisted in killing Kol. I also think this was a mistake - no matter how horrible Elena had become, she would never have agreed to the killing of an entire bloodline.
I need to watch this soon, thank you
I don't get when people say every guy was in love with her like no they weren't it was only Stefan, Damon and some other guy I forgot his name but every other guy was either her friend, relative or wanted to kill her. Meanwhile Caroline slept with a new guy in every season
At the end of the day, I can never blame Elena for being toxic when she was a TEEN dating several people over the age of 100. Not her fault.
I will say tho, the racist micro aggressions are not excusable, teen or not.
Elena seems like a person who has a narrative in her head of how her life should look and Damon is not that look. Stefan is what she mentally wants and when she gets it she is shocked that hes not like the fairytale in her head.
SERNEA YOU SLAY SO HARD
Also that scene with Stefan when he slept with Rebekah. It was about Elena and it was to hurt Elena.
I have a question for you: As an aspiring TH-cam Essayist how do you record these videos in one take? I can’t speak for more than 2 minutes without getting winded. Any advice?
It depends on the topic! Sometimes if I feel confident in it or if it’s a more casual video I can speak for ages in one take; but other times I prepare and read a whole script. It can take weeks or even months of practice
And you don’t have to necessarily do it in one take for it to be a successful video! I think my favourite videos are the highly planned and scripted ones
I still like Katherine better
Thanks bae
Who doesn’t 😂
Watch the show more.
I love this series so much
I am SEATED. 🧛♀️❤️
The other reasons why the sire line storyline is so bad is because a big theme with Elena in season 2 and 1 is her autonomy and how Stefan was the one of the 2 who respected that. And is one of the reasons why she was hesitant about Damon. But then they do this.
would you ever review Teen Wolf?
Katherine, Rebekah, & Caroline still sweeped the floor with her
Not really all of them were dumb cry babies
I still dislike Elena…still selfish and whiny and self righteous 🤢
Fair enough! Just sharing my thoughts as to why I didn’t hate her but you definitely don’t need to like her :)
@@SerenaSkybourne yes of course. I didn’t mean to argue with you. I was just expressing my dislike of her character 😂
One of the reasons why I grown to dislike Elena is because she is always very passive, she never seams to know what she wants, or how she feels, she never seams able to do anything for herself. But yeah the writters did her dirty here as they did pretty much all the other characthers. And she never seams to suffer any consequence for her actions either.
I accidentally came across your video but am so glad I did! Absolutely great video, and dare I say voice of the reason even? Because I wasn't exactly a fan of Elena (tho I quite liked her), and yet I found all the hate to be out of proportion at best and making no sense at worst. Like you don't have to like her per se but to act like she is the worst character on the show (mind you usually as a person and not even writing-wise) is hard to understand for me. Like yes, the writers did her wrong, especially in season 4th and onward but they also destroyed pretty much everyone else, to the point where I personally stopped watching around the middle of season 6. The funny thing is that I was always a delena girl, because I did find them more interesting, and yet my favorite seasons are 1-3 (and liked 4 till like a half?).
You raised a lot of interesting points or counterarguments to the most common reason people hate Elena which I totally agree with. Especially the one about Caroline because she literally similar thing one could argue worse even, by being with Klaus. Like she had no reason to act all judgy towards her, I'm sorry.
It really became kinda full circle because ppl started not liking her for whatever reason and because they didn't like her they weren't willing to extend the same grace to her they did to other characters they did like (as you pointed out with Damon, and Klaus etc. who did much worse things) and then judged her more harshly for less than others. Also funny thing how she was considered Mary Sue and the worst, most selfish person at the same time by fandom. Like she is supposed to have some flaws and make mistakes, and irrational decisions sometimes, she is a teen (God forbid a female character has a flaw/ make a mistake/ is unlikable/ bad friend for a second). Also, she definitely has from the start of the show (because of the accident where her parents died) survivor's guilt which actually explains a lot of her actions. And even later on, she IS the reason why Klaus and the originals even come to town (and before that Salvatore brothers and Katherine) she again feels guilty, but it wasn't even her fault, she was just existing. If anything it would be the brothers' fault for putting her in the middle of it all, tho of course we wouldn't have a show without it.
To put it simply her greatest flaw for the longest time was that she could be a little annoying sometimes... (I don't want to start another topic but intrestengly enough with celebrities it's quite similar situation - there is usually more backlash for female celebrity who is 'annoying'/ we don't like rn (mostly cuz it's trendy) than male celebrities who actually did something problematic, hmm). They really did her a disservice but not only her, so again it's unfair to act like she is the worst thing/character ever in the show.
Oh, and acting annoyed over her being the center of attention when she is literally the main character is just so stupid, I'm sorry.
At some point it just became 'trendy' to hate on her imo.
thats what it is. shes the main character but didnt feel like one but also was the focus. so everything that i hated about her was them not giving her depth. we are constantly told she compassionate and ridden with grief but who is she?
Elena annoyed me mostly. I actually preferred Bonnie and even Caroline to her. I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention the fact that Nina and Ian were dating for a good portion of "Delena" and it all falling apart. Maybe we'll get that in a Delena as vid? 😊
I thought that they did too much saying, "Elena's a good person." Without showing us, her selfishness was a very normal thing for a young adult to have in her circumstances, especially because supernatural creatures obsessing over her for any reason was literally why all of their lives went to shit. I just thought that the reason people hated her is because the writers didnt allow any opinions of her to change so while we watched her flaws, we were being serenaded by only her positive traits and it made those flaws extremely apparent. If the writers had allowed the other characters to be realistic about her, like they let the characters be about everyone else, i imagine that the hate wouldve been a lot less
Please do a video about Katherine Pierce❤️❤️❤️please and thank you
yall want complex characters until they’re complex
I’m 40 and emotional cheating is worse