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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- This video dispels the myths of high dollar bikes in the recreational riding community. I compare weight to performance and relate the actual numbers you can expect. How much speed do you really buy for an additional 2-10 thousand dollars, find out.
This video contains the only truth you will hear on bicycle costs. What is the high dollar light weight bike actually worth? What does a high end racing bike mean to a recreational rider? discussed is the most important frame specification NEVER mentioned by the manufacture.
PLEASE READ:
This video is not for racing, the variables in racing make justifying a price to bike in generalizations impossible. This is practical advice for the recreational cyclist who wants a good dependable bike that functions as well as any bike.
I use the motorcycle analogy because it includes R&D yet sells for less money. Even Honda's out of the crate racing motocross bike sells for less. The complexities of R&D in producing a motocross racing machine is obviously more than a bicycle that is going to have a half horsepower motor mounted...engine NOT included on the bicycle.
NOTE: I will ban and report All violent and vulgar language. I intend to keep the wonderful sport of bicycling pure.
This guy appears practical and honest: I am a recreational weekend rider, toured Europe and saw the Tour de France, as many college kids do. I could afford one of the high-tech bikes, and was close to buying one today. I invest in tech, in fact, as an angel investor CEO for decades so I earn my living by evaluating best-in-class: after this video, admittedly anecdotal which does make it false, I am convinced this good man just saved me 10-14,000 bucks. Recreational cyclists have no business--other than ego and conspicuous consumption (coined by an economist from my undergraduate school Carleton, thank you) in "race shavings" that are critical but only to racers. My only quibble is with his comment that it is "hard to say what high end bikes really cost" as in fact we can indeed know the real metrics (PRC et al) which are easily discerned within my profession's competence: pennies per hour in China, so he is correct. Thank you.
Apologies: I omitted "NOT" in my note:
"admittedly anecdotal which does NOT make it false" is what I should have written.
+Marais Paris TY for posting your thoughtful comment.
Also interesting is the parallel phenomenon of Designer Labels and expensive watches. Why would someone want a $20,000 wrist watch? Best answer I ever heard was from a Silicon Valley Venture Cap. exec. "If you show up at a meeting wearing a $20,000 wrist watch (and wearing a well tailored designer suit) people will take you seriously." It's human nature to be impressed by beautiful possessions. That being said, I like this video and agree that a $15k road bike for a non-pro rider is just plain dumb.
Thanks for your great comment. One day, several years ago, my crazy brilliant lawyer called me and said "Stop what you are doing right now, go out and buy a Louis Vuitton briefcase!" for an upcoming meeting with a Saudi. I did just that (never before or since) and paid 1500 bucks for some stupid design with interlocking L's and V's. But guess what? Your story about the VC exec is exactly right: People get impressed by superficial things. It worked: I got a contract w Royal Family, for years, and the first thing he talked about was the brief case. People!! Cheers
+Chris Johannes BRAVO! Loved my Gitane in France, as student in the Pyrenees. I agree with you 100%. Except you are not over the hill. You are smart.
+Marais Paris Wow! TY for sharing that.
I believe its the Apple syndrome. You buy expensive stuff just to prove you can, even though it doesnt worth half the price. Its a brilliant marketing strategy made for people that dont like to think. And there are a lot of people that dont like to think :)
Abed Nego Its all marketing! Its all about bottom line profits.
Abed Nego Well said always think like that myself .Another thing is with the so called Apple mentality is to buy stuff on credit because they cant afford to buy outright
Apple is perhaps not a good choice as an example. I was buying high end Dell notebooks every two years. After noting that my wife's Macbook was as good as new after three years of heavy duty for her master's program, I swallowed hard, paid the 500 premium and bought a MacBook Pro. Six years later, it's still my workhorse. I've upgraded the HDD to a SSD and increase the RAM and the performance is actually better than when it was new. Sometimes you do get what you pay for.
Andrew Piereder Apple uses the same components as everybody else. You get WAY more bang for your buck with a PC. It's marketing and you've wrapped yourself in Apple's blanket, it's so warm and soft!
Sabyasachi Chakraborty underclocking got nothing to do with
How on earth do you expect me to brag to my colleagues at the yacht club and the country club about a $300 bike??? There are reputations at stake here!
***** Nothing more funny to a skilled cyclist than watching an unskilled cyclist on a high end carbon racing bike waddling down the road at 13 mph, out of position with square pedal stokes at 30 RPM. So what is there to brag about here....??? I'm embarrassed for you.
I thought my sarcasm was rather blatant... you sir have proved me wrong.
***** Sorry, just adding to your comment how one of these inexperienced cyclist are seen by those of us riding and racing for the last half century. If they are trying to impress, the just can't, like seeing a lawnmower engine in an Indy race car.
funnzie I work in Calabasas, CA (stupid amounts of money here) I see these types of guys everyday. $10k+ bikes, $1k in gear on, riding 4-5 wide talking business. I laugh not because I'm an experienced cyclist, but just because I think it's a pretentious waste of money.
I raced BMX for years and remember kids coming in with titanium race bikes and all this high end gear and getting spanked by kids with bikes half as much. You can't buy skill.
Same with guys who own Porsches and Ferraris... just because you own one, doesn't mean you know how to drive it. I beat a brand new 911 turbo on the drag strip with a little 1991 GMC pickup truck.
From what mr cyclone said, It seems that prices are raised because of this social class phenomenon. The bike companies use this to raise the prices and in the end it hurts our pockets because people want to brag about their bikes and not their performance.
I have a $500 hybrid which is very comfy but pretty heavy at 15kg or close to. I hired a carbon 'endurance' type road bike worth $1600 for a weekend to see what the difference would be (the carbon road bike weighed about 8kg). Over my 11km training ride, the carbon bike was only 1 minute quicker which surprised the heck out of me - I thought I would be much quicker. Much less comfy too. I think I would go quicker still on the road bike once I really got used to it but it certainly made me think that most important bit is the engine, not the bike.
quedecree If you call a 11km ride a "ride" then no wonder you can't tell the difference.
***** Ouch. hehehe Be nice now. :P
Bumble Bee Ok...I will :D
***** Hey, I gotta start somewhere.
quedecree Of course we all start somewhere. I started riding a bike on Januray 35 this year, my first ride was 3 km in half an hour...now I can do 30km in one hour. I ride an old and beat up cheap road bike. I changed the bottom bracket today and when I got the old one out it was filled with rust and the part in wich the bearings sit was gone. There's no need to say now it rides like a charm.
Obviously the bike won't make you a better rider, but I would not be able to appreciate this kind of bikes because I just can't ride that much. I understand that and we all should...this bikes are not for the average rider, I ride for fun but also I run errands and buy my groceries, go to offices to do paperwork or pay bills, visit friends etc but I'm no pro and I don't do this for a living.
And those super expensive bikes are made for those people. Look for a channel here, I think is DurianRider and check his videos.
Buy a cheap heavy bike and it will make you strong like a bull. Back in the day I bought a $150 mountain bike. My buddy bought a super light $1000 race bike. My bike was much heavier, but I still beat him because I was more athletic.
Agree! I have a $1200 bike and a $400 bike. The $1200 bike is a piece of crap and the $400 Schwinn USA is a tank - MUCH better bike, rides better, derailleur works much better, wheels are better - too bad Schwinn USA went bankrupt - the new Schwinn's suck, you may as well buy a Huffy
Kip Shaffer Yes I agree. The guy wasn't really my buddy, he was a co-worker. We were cool but sometimes he was a douche, and a snob. Anyway, I just went out and bought a bike because I didn't like running that much. So I bought a bike to just to exercises on. The bike was good and sturdy, but not a light weight race bike. He went out and bought a high dollar race bike and then started talking shit about my cheap Wall Mart bike. lol Anyway, I could beat him running and I also beat him riding my heavier bike to shut him up. His bike was flimsy and mine was a tank. Unless you are a world class athlete cyclist you don't need a $1000+ dollar bike.
hawkermustang
Heavy built bikes are like tanks and instill confidence in the rider. I have my late grandfathers bike built in the early twenties, he was active in the Irish civil war "an anti partitionist" and used to transport Enfield rifles strapped to the crossbar . He was fourteen, the British caught him and broke both his legs, then put him in a prison ship for two years. I use this bike every morning to get my danish and paper from the local newsagent. These old cycles are a credit to the men who built them. Cycling is supposed to be enjoyable, what joy is there in an expensive lightweight cycle that deforms or shatters when you hit a pothole?
hawkermustang
you don't know a thing about bikes
Alan Belloso You don't need to "know a thing" about bikes to enjoy riding them. Ignorance is bliss. In my opinion, it's all mind over matter, and perspective(as with everything). Hawker's story solidifies my point. It's your choice to accept it or deny it.
Watched it at .5 speed because I enjoyed the video so much I didn't want it to end.
Thank you. I don't know why more viewers don't use the speed increase if too slow. For my over-seas viewers they appreciate the slow speed.
The dislikes on this video prove to me that the bike industry has a large portion of the biking community completely brainwashed. No bike is truly worth the ridiculous cost these "high end" bikes cost nowadays. $11.5K for a bike...please. I paid $17, 500 for my daughter's brand spanking new Honda Civic. I have been an avid road cyclist for nearly 20 years. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to buy a bike from Wal-Mart anytime soon, but I'm not paying several thousand either. My current bike cost me $1,500 ( my limit). At a certain point, it's not about the bike, it's more about the rider. Case in point: I often ride friends into the ground on their Dura Ace equipped S5s and Dogmas. However, I have also been blown away by a guy riding a 30 year-old Trek. Don't believe the hype people. These bikes are not worth the cost. You are only making the manufactures and others rich. If you stop buying them at these insane prices, watch how fast the prices will start to drop: supply and demand.
I think its the thought of 40 mins of sleepy voice not getting to the point
+DJJPlus4 Yes this is true. It is a con the price they ask. But this video is trying to make out that cheapo components outperform more expensive one's. That's just nonsense and the guy who did this video knows it. If he was dropping chains all the time on a Dura Ace crankset then it's his fault for an improperly set up bike. It doesn't mean the chainset is to blame! I mean come on!
+DJJPlus4 Actually, the dislikes are because he talks at half speed with 3 times as many words are necessary. Its also a SLIDESHOW. TH-cam is for VIDEOS, not slow slideshows.
+Gary Sellars Talk to any honest bike mechanic...ask them what is the difference between Shimano Dura-Ace and Shimano Alivio in performance...their reply will be..."nothing".
funnzie
I believe the pull ratios might be different, on top of that new dura ace offers an 11 speed cassette. I don't think an 11t cog might be available on an alivio group. technically and mechanically both are similar on paper, on practice the difference between them are more like the differences between a good craft beer and a 24oz can of king cobra.
Hey man, dont let all the negative comments bring you down brother, great video making great points. Theres a lot of Lance Armstrong wanabes in my area with 15,000$ bikes. Its all about the image to them, they dont even eat properly and often bonk. I just have a 700$ Scott speedster. Great bike.
***** Thanks. But it's not the negative comments, it is the furthering of the myths in the comments I respond to. I don't want a new cyclist to think they can't enter the sport because of money. They don't need $2000.00 to be a cyclist.
funnzie
Correct! and they are also intimidated by people who have 2,000$ bikes, and they dont ride at all because they are ashamed to show up with a 500$ bike. So sad, so so sad. Like you said, its about fitness, not gear.
When you live in a successful wealthy area like I do, people get caught up in the whole, more money you pay, the better. And for some of them, they are already fit, and they just want to show of on an expensive bike often not even wearing helmets.
***** I've been riding since Lance Armstrong was a good guy
Not Lance Armstrong he's a joke to the sport
Serious question: What's the point of this video? It's not for the racer as you say, but what kind of recreational cyclist is going to consider buying a high end race bike anyway? I didn't see anything in the 37 minutes that wasn't either blatantly obvious, totally irrelevant or complete bollocks.
Monkey You have thousands, maybe millions of cyclists and would be cyclists, believing a sub-22 pound bike is going to make them very fast, it does not. This is not obvious to most people or they would not be buying these bikes. If it is obvious to you, then you must be very wise and / or experienced.
funnzie I'm neither wise (I'm 20) nor particularly experienced as I've only been racing for 3 years, and for the record I agree that top end off the peg bikes are horribly over-priced, which is why I built my S-Works up myself, but I think bikes do make far more of a difference than you credit them with. I also think the group of people who are happy to potter along at 25kph is much smaller than you think; most people want a Ferrari, that Trek is the cycling equivalent. Now I understand that most people aren't Michael Schumacher or indeed Greg LeMond, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't buy top of the range equipment, or won't feel the benefits of it. They may not be able to use the full potential of it, but even my dad who is far from svelte could feel the difference my bike made. I'm not going to go so far as to accuse you of misinformation, because you obviously mean well, I just think you've misunderstood the majority of people who are "cyclists" as opposed to people who simply ride bikes.
Monkey Yes, the range of cyclists experience levels are to numerous to single out each one. I thought I made it very clear: recreational cyclists are everyone who does not race, from the x-pro to the beginner. Just go to a big bike event and ride behind solo riders (non-drafting) and you will find most speeds are 17 to 20 MPH on flat terrain. It is very rare to see solo (or non-drafting groups) riders above 20 MPH over the 50 to 100 miles. Mainly because of the 18 MPH rule: Nearly all your effort over 18 MPH goes into pushing air. You can all buy a "Ferrari" bike, but remember non of them come with an engine.
funnzie You're missing the point; why shouldn't people spend their money how they like, even if the differences the bike makes is smaller that they would be if the rider were an elite athlete. The same argument can be said of everything; why should anyone buy nice things when mediocre things will normally do the job just fine? Because nobody likes mediocrity, particularly when it comes to things they're passionate about, and cycling is definitely a passion. Nobody who cares about cycling wants a mediocre bike (and I think mediocre is generous in the case of the Motobecane) so why should you sit there on your high horse and tell the people who love their sport that they shouldn't buy that new saddle, or an expensive groupset or whatever because they don't ride fast enough?
Monkey It's you that is missing the point. It's about educated spending, not blindly believing that more money equals better/faster ride. I love cycling, I can afford to spend some money sometimes, but I ride a 22 year old steel frame Peugeot that I got for £200, and I spend all my commute passing thousands of pounds worth of carbon bikes every single day. I don't get overtaken. My bike is better. Plus it looks a million times better!
Don't spend as little as you can, and I would never brave the London traffic on a cheap department store bike, but you don't need to spend anything like they would have you beleive. Like I said, spend intelligently, not blindly.
thank you for showing the price comparison bw the Trek and the Kawasaki, it truly puts things in perspective. bicycle prices have just gotten out of control in the last 20 years.
Actually, bike prices have dropped dramatically every year for the last 20! They've just added a lot of high end stuff that almost daily gets debunked as not worth the investment. Good, reliable bikes worthy of a multi-day camping or supported ride are still available for well under a thousand (I'm finding the best VALUES in new bikes between $800 and $1200). I belong to a touring page that has many riders touring whole continents on $500 bikes.
Mark thank you for your comment but my experience in Ohio bike prices have drastically increased since I have entered the bike market in 1994. I only disagree with your first 2 sentences but am happy to hear that bikes may be selling for decent prices where you are. Enjoy the ride.
Example:
Currently- Surly Steamroller $825- is a single speed STEEL fixed bike, no gears and only one brake (nothing fancy at all).
Back in 1994- Diamond Back Sorrento 21 speed MTN bike $299 or GT Timberline 21 speed MTN Bike $429.
Conversely, you can get 2013 Jamis Auroras all over the country, with fenders and rear rack of reasonable quality for around $825. That same bike would have been well over $1400, in a previous year's model, in the 90's and something comparable, but not so up to date would have been even higher in the '80's.
Mark- just so I'm clear, are you saying that the average cost of a new bike has become cheaper in recent years?? I'm only asking because now a bottom tier bike at a bike shop starts at $600-$700, when in the 90's you could easily find a bike for $350 that manufactures with the same quality of materials. If I had to buy a new bike for under $400 now it would be at a Walmart with super cheap components and a rusty frame within 2 years.
My knowledge of bikes is limited from mid 1990's to current times so I have no idea what pricing was like in the 80's.
I routinely pass 2-5k dollar bikes on my $700 bike. It's about fitness as he says.
So do I, on a 13 year old $600 MTB. And I'm not even fit.
2063 people spent too much on their bikes
vnitto
who sets the standard for too much money? You? If not who then? I get the video
and they point he's making, no one has to spend thousands to ride, but if they
chose to then so be it. They not wasting thousands on alcohol, or getting fat
at way over prices restaurants. Many of my friends who know I ride and have a
bike I've paid in the $2000 range say anything outside of a $150.00 department
store bike is too much and I say my investment is well worth it as someone
turning 50 in a month can out preform almost all of them physically any day of
the week . Are they right?
@@andrewlabat9963 oh wow, somebody with a brain in this comment section
Tried to watch this again. Still couldn't get through it.
Should I cut off the tassels on the end of my handlebars? Also my banana seat is a bit long. I like my kickstand though, so even if it ads weight I'm gonna keep it.
Go for the Carbon Banana
Excellent well put together video. Was long, but worth it in my opinion. And I totally agree for the most part about 98% of what you shared. Thanks for taking the time to help the cycling community with your experience and knowledge base. Saving that $11000 or even $4000 would be well spent on a awesome month long biking trip in another country. I have been through probably a good 30 bicycles (i know i have a problem lol)...most of which were purchased used for the very same reason you mention in the video. I was unwilling to contribute to the rediculous profit these companies are making off of hard working people; so I let someone else spend the $5k (before taxes) on the bike and after they are finished because the newness is gone and there is another new expensive bike to buy.... I buy their bike from them for 1/4th the price they paid. As a matter of fact, just bought a well preserved cannondale R3000 CAAD7 for 550 dollars. I thought it was good to compare the 11k race bicycle to a 4k motorcycle. I had a $9k yamaha R1 which could do 190mph in less time that it takes a pro to change a flat; so there is no way on earth a bicycle should cost anywhere close to that. Thanks again.
Yin Yang Thank you. It is my hope to bring more to cycling and fitness with this video and to let beginners and upgraders know the bike is small part of fitness and speed.
The people who gave this video a thumbs down must have bought a TREK and want to believe its worth every penny.....LOL
treks ARE good bikes,you obviously don't know that
I owned a Trek 7.2 FX, a hybrid, for about 4 years. It was in bad shape by then as I rode it as a work commuter 6 days/wk through all weather; muddy rain and dirty snow. I just recently bought a new Trek 7.2 FX and it is a joy compared to my old one, which had serious problems. It's already developing wear and defects after a week though, which my old 7.2 FX did. My old 7.2 cost me about $400. This one cost me $530.
I test rode a Trek 7.3 FX and it seems like a stronger more durable bike. The shifting feels tight and accurate, and doesn't have as much "give" or feels "loose". The frame geometry and handlebars were also preferable to the 7.2. But it's about $100 more, at $650.
So yeah $600 seems about the cost for a good solid bike..
Most of the TREK frames are built by Giant.
how do you know that? you do realize trek has their own factory
mtnbikr66 The only thing that comes out of Trek's own factory is their high end carbon stuff. The aluminum frames either come from Giant or Merida.
Will have to watch this when I have time. At 37 minutes and with your relaxed cadence I can't stay awake.
Sorry. I talk slow so you may understand, because this is new material you don't hear anywhere else. The video is about the importance of fitness and health, not about bikes. For those willing to hear, let them hear.
audio was kinda weak I needed to put some headphones on to hear it better.
also you sounded like an out of shape cyclist haha Joke! but you definitely have
thought me some. I rode a cheap bike for years and still do and darn my suntour RD is still working LOL!
Then why comment sb, i agree with the sound quality alen, it was low at the highest possible volume,
TH-cam has a useful option in Settings to bump playback speed to 1.5x. Sounded normal at 1.5X, allowing the 37 minutes to become 25.
Ughhh, this hurts my head. Cycling isn't cheap. If you want a cheap sport, go run. I totally understand your issues with spending $11k on a bike, I race and I would never send that much. But you're either completely uninformed or blatantly misinforming people. It's not just weight you are paying for... It's stiffness, it's durability, power transfer, performance, and ride comfort. Even if you don't care about any of that, you're gonna want a bike that shifts gears and won't blow spokes every 500km which is something you can't guarantee on a $300 bike. Is the $11k bike a good value? Absolutely not, but unless you are a pro, a doctor, or a shop owner, you won't be riding these bikes. That being said, a high-end aluminum bike at $1500 or a low end carbon bike at $2k is going to be a hell of a lot better ride for the average person then a $300 steel frame POS and waaaay more durable. If you are riding 10-15k kilometers a year. Paying $1700 more is completely justifiable and well worth it. Not too mention you could probably turn around and sell it for $1200 the next year. $1000/year for a huge increase in quality of life is a price I am willing to pay.
You display your ignorance. There is nothing wrong (any many things right) with a steel frame for receational riding. They have a very nice ride at a slight weight penalty. Far better than aluminum as anyone knowledgeable will agree. There are lots of custom steel frame makers, probably in your area. Why do you think they exist if Chinese bikes are so cheap--because it is a fantastic frame material that can easily be tailored to suit anyone.
Good advice and wise questions throughout the video. The margin on much of the stuff is vulgar. Just bought a Schwinn Varsity from the 60s, put new alloy 700c rims with larger city tires and better brakes on it, city/mountain bike handlebars, better seat and pedals, greased bearings and cleaned it up and you wouldn't believe the attention and kudos I get from the folks with high end bikes. They openly express envy that I had the know-how to do it myself. THAT'S why they pay such prices. Because many will take advantage of them, knowing these people never fixed their own bikes when they were kids.
*****
There were so many of them made back then that they are quite plentiful now 50+ years later.I had no particular interest in a10-speed, but was just trying to accumulate parts to build up a Schwinn like I had as a kid. My wife surprised me with a message showing a photo of the Varsity for a few bucks on Ebay, asking if it was a good price. I said it was,she bought it, and two days later we drove over to pick it up. Now for a little better rear derailleur and we're off! Can't tell you how many cyclists show interest, many being too young to remember the Varsity/Continental, and the high percentage who say they'd like to do the same to one. The bike isn't light, but without the steel rims it's a real transformation. For a durable city bike, it's hard to beat one of these.
+Rusty Shackleford Didn't Schwinn become Giant once they moved to Tawain ?reason a lot of people don't like Giants
+melbman43 Wikipedia tells me a different story..
+melbman43 Nearly all the bikes in the world are now made in a few factories in the orient. If you can design a bike and have the money to go into production, you can be a bike manufacturer. I am seeing consistent quality out of these few factories. So the brand name you choose in a bike, is by design only, you are buying their expertise in design, the actual manufacturing quality control is the same for all. This is probably why when buying a bike name that you never heard of such as Gravity, Windsor, Mercer, they all have the same build quality. This is why I am pleased with all my no-name bikes, they were all built in the same factory that build Giant, Trek, Specialized, Bianchi....
I appreciate the time and commitment that you put into the video. With that said, I too have logged a lot of miles on bikes but not in a racing platform. I ride charity centuries throughout the year as well as daily rides for training for them. Yet, the first bike that I rode a century on was a 100 dollar flea market Raleigh race/touring bike. Eventually I got laughed at at the feed stops with such an old steel framed bike, but I always finished the 100 miles with it.
I believe it was the laughter that compelled me to purchase my first 900 dollar Trek road bike with an aluminum frame, but almost immediately I saw the difference. I was able to finish the century faster with less time on the bike which meant less pain and soreness. Later I upgraded to a Canondale Six partial carbon and eventually purchased the Super Six all carbon compact. I must be honest here and state that I enjoy cycling very much and riding the Super Six carbon is the biggest reason I continue to do so. For a cyclist like me, as I grow older and want to ride the distance oriented events and not spend all day on the bike, the carbon frame has been a positive step for me. Bottom line: it was worth the four thousand dollars for me, but I also agree with you that one can get by with a less expensive bike for similar uses as mine. Thanks again.
I totally agree with most of what you've said. Nobody needs a super high dollar bike, but then again almost no one buys the super high dollar bike. I still think it would have been more relevant to compare a $3000 racing bike to an entry level bike since that is what most people step up to if they are interested in a faster racing bike. The bikes don't get any faster above that price point and most people don't spend much more than that. While steel is repairable in some limited cases it is also more easily damaged than alluminum, (Modern alloy frames have proved very durable) and it is not repairable beyond just a minor bend or misalignment. I think many recreational cyclists are suited better by a touring bike to be honest or at least a bike with rack mounts and most road bikes above $1200 will not come them.
It is not the cost of a road racing bike, it is the purpose. Any road hight tech racing bike is unnecessary to cycling up to 100 miles a day. The low tech, yet very strong and durable aluminum bike given as an example will provide an excellent bike for 95% of all roadies. The reason racing bikes are expensive is because of the R&D and design for racing...only racing. Racing conditions such as sprinting, jumps, aggressive climbing, powerful time trialing, drafting use the technology...not sustained recreational speeds. I am separating racing from recreation, even though a recreational rider may train with racing techniques, all the bike has to be is strong enough to support that training. A racing bike is designed to save micro seconds at the finish line and seconds in a race....these seconds don't matter to the recreational rider and your fitness.
I agree but you compare it to a racing bike that most racers won't even buy or use. I just think it is more appropriate to make the argument with a bike that recreational road cyclists might be tempted to buy and show them why it isn't necessary. For example Alberto Contador won the Tour de France, the Giro, and the Vuelta on a middle of the range Trek carbon frame. He was basically on a $5000 because while it was a few grams heavier he felt it was stiffer, showing that even the best in the world dont need the gooci level builds shown. It's still difficult to give the recreational cyclist a specific price point because the type of bike they need depends on the type of riding they want to do. Many people are doing long tours off road now, they don't need racing tech but they will benefit from disk brakes, bigger tires and many will enjoy a comfortable but expensive upgraded saddle (many use a Brooks)
The same issue is going on in the mountain bike world. Many non can have more fun with better suspension, better tires, bigger brakes and nicer components, they don't NEED them but they are more fun. The problem starts when they start thinking that they have to have these things and more in order to enjoy riding. The best bike is the bike that youre on and while upgrading can bring us benefits it doesn't mean that we cant get out riding right now.
Yes, I used the highest dollar lightest bike I could find, I needed to use this bike because even at the extreme comparison of the aluminum road bike, it was difficult to find any difference in performance under recreational riding conditions. And this extends to any road racing bikes, even the lower cost carbon bikes are not necessary for performance and comfort riding recreationally simply because racing technology is not used when riding recreationally at a constant pace of 17 to 20mph (average rec cyclist). Narrow tires, extensive R&D for frame stiffness under sprint power...all the technology used for racing is only good for racing. This video is entitled the true cost of riding, and that is what I am illustrating, the cost of a bike that performs well for 100 miles for most riders. If you wish to use carbon racing bike technology, then you will save a few minutes per hour in the hills and mountains, and your fitness remains the same.
I totally agree with you, as I have said before.
What's worse is the cost of these road bikes. You are paying more and getting less tech in most cases. No suspension (forks and shock), no linkages and different leverage ratios for the suspension to run on and up until recently, no hydraulic brakes. I'd rather spend $4,000 on a mtb instead of a road bike of equal price.
This video showcases need vs want. If you aren't racing, you don't need an expensive bike. If you want to feel like u can race or actually race, then the sport has been hyped to the point of buying bikes more expensive than motorcycles in some cases.
+funnzie it makes sense because people need to feel secure by a brand, one of the best guitarrist of the world Brian May still uses his guitar made of the cheapest equipment, and uses a coin to play it... if you are good and have confidence in yourself, you dont need brands just research and intelligence. Good video !!
Carlos Gascon Brand loyalty is good. Using racing bikes in the recreational community is bad. Applying racing standards to the recreational community is dangerous and expensive and unnecessary.
funnzie
Brand loyalty is not good. It leads to people blindly purchasing products from the same manufacturer on the assumption that they will be good because they were made by that manufacturer. Smart people compare every product on its own merits, because even manufacturers that usually make good products screw up every now and then. Without having their products constantly scrutinized by prospective customers, manufacturers start to produce underperforming, overpriced junk. Take a look at Apple and the Total War games. Lots of moronic fanboys line up to pre-order complete garbage because "omfg, it's Apple!", "omfg, it's Total War!".
Buying very expensive things is stupid, because past a certain amount, you're not paying for quality anymore; you're paying for image and bragging rights ("look how much money I have!").
NoisemakerArrow Yes you are correct, we need to research purchases. As a business owner, brand loyalty is coming to me - first - giving me the first opportunity to offer my product and services. If what I offer does not compete with the rest of the world in value then I agree with you. IF I do offer a good value but at a higher cost (not outrageous) I would hope the customer would still use me out of loyalty accepting I may offer more for that price.
Carlos Gascon Nonsense. It took Brian and his Dad TWO WHOLE YEARS to make that guitar by hand. It was made out of an old fireplace, cheap for them to acquire but still QUALITY wood. They used their imagination with the materials for pickups, whammy bar etc. but none of them were POOR materials.If you costed the time and effort to make that guitar, and paid Brian's dad to make it for you, it would have cost £1000s!! Often the raw materials are only the fraction of the cost of ANY product (custom or branded), it's the time, effort and overheads required to make a product that results in the high final cost.I agree that to follow a brand blindly is stupid, but you cannot say that brands like Paul Reed Smith or Gibson (in guitars) or Look and Specialized (in bikes) are junk just because somebody had the considerable time and effort (and Dad) to build a one off custom guitar.Plus I'd like to see anyone (and their Dad) make a 900g carbon road frame in their garage that can win the TdF!!
Great video. In the UK, cycling has been affected by the consumerism that is more typical of America: bike magazines full of product reviews, magazine articles based on the advantages of this or that component, page after page of ads. I feel that people who are new to cycling are getting misled - cycling should be about skill and physical condition. It shouldn't be about products.
cefnonn Once fitted correctly and have at least the minimum equipment as stated in the video, then fitness is the focus of cycling. You are correct. If the bike magazine has bike advertisements in it, then only a fool would believe anything written in it. The magazine and bike manufacturer are working together to a single goal...making money. Why would anyone read such a magazine?
***** If you believe that a magazine would give a bad review to a bike that just spent $25.000 on a series of large advertisements, then I cant' help you. I want to separate racing from bike riding so we can enjoy cycling unfettered by UCI rules and racing demands. We would have the most innovative and beautiful bikes from all materials if it wasn't for UCI rules in racing. Racing is holding the recreational riding community back from very useful bikes. After reading how this or that racer trains, and the hero worship, or the latest training tips, or the newest bike that is "super fast".... I just can't take in this garbage anymore. I am about truth, and the truth of cycling is that it is a fitness sport, a spiritual active meditation, a pure pollution free mode of transportation, a magnificent symbiosis of man and machine, a wonderful independence from complex machine travel. It is my love for cycling that produced this video for those who want the essence of the experience.
Thank you for your video. A question that could be asked is : what are the working conditions of the workers making the motobecane. Are they treated well ? And what is it for the 5'000 $ bike ? Because, when I choose my mountainbike, I made sure to select a brand that had well treated, formed and paid employees. This made the mountainbike a little bit expensiv(i)er, but I believe it's worth it.
Pfff good point!
Since nearly all bikes are made in one of three factories in the orient, the conditions would be similar. But I can't know the truth of these factories. No one can know the truth except the factory employees. Remember the bike companies only make the frame, the components all come from Shimano, Sunrace, Suntour, and smaller factories lessor known. To build a complete bike takes many factories and employees, how each employee in the 10 or more different factories are being treated is unknown. Maybe all the employees are treated well except the ones making the brake cables in some unknown factory, should we then boycott the bike. It is not up to me to make the unreasonable assumption that I know how every employed is treated, it is not up to me to promote rebellion for the mis-treated. Simply because the truth is too far removed to know anything for sure. IT IS the responsibility of the mis-treated employees to decide to rebel or to continue. America and me are not the police of the world..why? Because only those who have lived it can know the truth. During the US civil war I would not have wanted Russia to side with the Southern Confederates just because they convinced Russia the North was wrong and evil. Media (news) does not give us truth, only a few minutes of video where the cameras are aimed where they decide. IF you want to protect the workers of another country you must move there and then live there for over 10 years before making the decision to help them rebel or continue as is. Even 10 years is really too short, only those born into the life and lived it for 40 or more years know the absolute truth...the complete truth that never will be broadcast with accuracy or empathy to the rest of the world.
continuing my rant, the bicycle companies you featured like trek also have cheap , affordable bikes. im sure you could find a trek 1.1 for maybe $600, with Sora's and a carbon fork. same goes for specialized, who makes an $18,000 S-works Venge Mclaren while still making a great value bike, the Allez base model that goes for $550-650. not to mention that these aluminum carbon-forked bikes are from major well known brands. just thought id point that out.
UHHH! HE WASN'T COMPARING NAME BRANDS, WELL, MAYBE A LITTLE. HE IS ASKING A SIMPLE QUESTION, THAT ALL BIKE SHOPPERS HAVE WONDERED ABOUT... IS THERE THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE? I BELIEVE THAT FUNNZIE ANSWERED MY QUESTION. THANKS FUNNZIE. CLAP CLAP CLAP!!
yes i know he wasnt really comparing brands, but you have to give some credit to Trek and the other companies that i mentioned. he makes it sound like they only make overpriced carbon bikes.
Tommy Dunham Please stop using caps. You can promote your argument with normal font. Caps does not make your argument look better.
The basic Specialized Allez has no carbon fork though. I own one and am really enjoying it but can't help but wonder if I should have spent more money for a carbon fork. What's your take on that? Are carbon forks essential?
Ian Cameron
I am a mountain biker and will get a cyclocross bike for extra versatility in training, however, from what I remember with the solid forks of my day, it depends on what you want. I am not sure if the newer carbon forks have the same types of ride characteristics that you would see with different MTB static forks, however, if the carbon is a weight thing, and you are wanting to race, then definitely. However, if you are not attempting to race then that is a different story. I think the carbon forks have different ride characteristics, however, I can't remember.
I agree with some of the points you make, but things like talking about the ultegra 'self destruction' and not being able to keep the chain on is clearly an issue with mechanical setup or the componentry is worn / damaged. These kind of comments discredit your opinion, especially when there are multiple throughout that aren't all completely valid. Weight is also a huge thing, I'm a commuter / recreational cyclist and started with a $300 bike, weighing in at 12 kilos. I recently spent 5 times that to upgrade to a second hand carbon bike with high range componentry, weighing in around 8 kilos. The difference in effort is very noticeable, as well as improvements to almost all areas of the bike - saddle, shifters, wheels, bars, brakes and less obvious things like quality of tyres. All these things make it more pleasant to use. Yes it does the same thing, but it is more enjoyable.
In saying that, there is a exponential law of diminishing value just like most high performance vehicles. Look at drag racing as an analogy - The first 50 horsepower you tune from an engine will be many times cheaper than the last 10. R&D costs money and the top level bikes most likely enable the entry level to be priced lower than otherwise possible.
In a nutshell, I think the take home from this is look at what you are getting for your money. Look at the secondhand market. Test ride. Evaluate weather the extra money you'd spend would be better spent elsewhere.
Thank you funnzie, it was a great analysis, all true, I love mountain biking, and I've seen many people buy bicycles for $ 2,500 and $ 4,000, and there is no big difference, really a lowcost bike with good geometry and average cost components is sufficient.
If your buying a top end bike from a shop I highly doubt you'de need to replace anything because first of all you would have test rode several to narrow it down and finally the shop would swap parts to suit you, thats what shops do!
Nobody will take the advice of someone who fails to use the correct 'you're'.
That's nice, dumb-dumb.
schlooonginator grammar ;)
And you're missing a semi-colon after, 'TH-cam', and a comma after, 'Besides'.
Living in a computer age is a poor excuse for having terrible literacy skills, FFS. (For fuck sake)
MistaP73 Agree. When bad grammar/punctuation become acceptable it makes us all seem like 8th grade dropouts. Seriously, check out a blog/any blog in UK/Scotland. You notice right away that their spelling/grammar has very few errors and they use made-up words/slang sparingly.
MistaP73
.....says the person who started a sentence with a conjunction. :P
But Martin, how will I impress my neighbors and cycling buddies unless I blow a bundle on a ridiculously over priced high dollar racing bike with lots of multi-colored parts with prominent logos on them?
Climbing the hardest hill with a 200 dolars bike faster then them lmao
Super Kyle I hear what you are saying. As a true cyclist who has raced at high levels and trained intensely for over 40 years... I am only impressed by fitness and bike skills. I find it sad to see someone who is unfit and unfitted to a bike correctly riding $2000 plus bikes. It may have been marketing or sales, not their ego that placed them on that bike.
qpae123 Climbing near the front of your club ride on a long hill with a constant cadence using the gears rather than trying to be the rabbit is always a better ploy than to not have the legs for the next climb around the next corner. Doing that week after week will impress the group, more than being a rider on the latest gold plated carbon bicycle, or being the rabbit of the group on single hill. But i do not think this review of funnzie, was made for a group of riders that consistently fly past most riders in single file and attack each hill, and fly down the difficult decent.
Correct me if i am wrong this video was created to show that it is possible to purchase a decent inexpensive bicycle to ride 30/50 miles a day (10,000+ Miles annually), without needing to purchase a very expensive bicycle. A beginning cyclist can develop into a recreational rider, and sometimes a continues to become a weekend club rider.
The rider that does several multiples of 10,000 miles reaches a level of bicycle knowledge and experience they will purchase a frame, wheels and drive train components of their choice for their riding needs. At that level of riding experience the social and economic genre will have a major influences on the riders choice of a bicycle and equipment.
I do not believe this video addresses the issue of what equipment an experienced rider will use, choose, or decide upon. I believe this video was for the beginning rider that will become a recreational rider.
My only real issue with this video, is the presentation: the recording volume is far to low. There is no excitement, entertainment, or perceived believe by the presenter to encourage the new or recreational rider to watch the entire video. Almost a million hits is respectable number but this video and its message should have exceeded 20 or 30,000,000 viewers.
Jr Namida This video presents a subject never spoke of. I must compete with my little 40 minute video with millions of hours of misinformation and marketing in mass media. I spoke slowly on purpose with logic and understanding for those who wish to listen. If you listen the rest of my bike videos the pace is faster, but still controlled for the beginner. This video is NOT a suggestion of branded equipment, I will do one later. This video is information only, and everyone may use some, none or all in their decision to become fit. This video was to promote fitness and illustrate the little value of the machine, other than; safety, dependability and reasonable performance.
Whenever I'm suffering from insomnia I listen to one of your videos. Thanks for helping me sleep again dude
23yidarmy Glad to help. This is the only video I made with slowed speech. I slowed down on purpose because no one is listening to logic. Race bikes are fast in racing where seconds count. Recreational riding on a race bike will also save you seconds, but who cares.
i am a recreational rider with a group. This group consist of all kinds of riders.Some ex semi pro's ,state reps,national championships etc etc. I am an ex footbal player......Have riden a 105 shimano,aluminium frame/carbon forks bike for the past 4 years. There are some impressive bikes in my group but have always kept pace with the more "fancy" bikes. After 4 years and in need to replace the drive train ,did the sums and it was a lot cheaper to buy "the same' kind of bike every 2 years trading in the old one rather than "upgrade" to a more expensive machine. It made a lot more sense thinking about the issue this way. Had i bought a $3000 plus bike i could not have thoughof replacing the bike every two years. Now, I am very happy after buying my new bike for $850 to maintain the same level of "competitiveness" in my recreational activity. Already started saving for my new machine which at around 1000 dollars is around $10 a week ,a lot less with a trade in.
Alvaro Salvo Group riding, if drafting, is the same as racing. If you are keeping up with the group on your bike, then great, you are reaping the rewards of fitness and enjoying group riding as well. Beginners should realize that after training seriously on a bike for about 5 years you will be at your genetic limit. Increasing speed after this is by very small margins. The only way to stay in a group after genetic limits is to buy a lighter bike and wheels. Recreational riding (no drafting) the weight is as the video proves, unimportant after 22 pounds.
funnzie I think this is where you are causing a lot of confusion and enlisting many disagreements. Group rides and club rides, even with ex pros and current cat 1-2 riders are still much much slower than a real race and is considered by most as recreational riding.
Maverdick MWO Group rides that involve drafting (pace-lines) depending on the experience level of the group can be very demanding when riding on heavy bikes and wheels. The constant change of pace in a group means you are continually accelerating to stay on a wheel as the group "yo-yo's" in speed. This is where the weight of the bike becomes important. Obviously fitness levels determine your ability to ride in these groups, no matter what the weight of the bike. This is why I apply racing standards to group riding.
This video is the equivalent of criticizing a person for buying a Mercedes-Benz instead of a Toyota Corolla. It's true that both cars will get you where you want to go. However, the undeniable bottom line is that it's not about what gets you there, but how you are getting there. And, you don't need to spend 12K on a Trek, when you can get a Ridley for about 1/3 of that. Further, when compared with a POS aluminum Motobecane, you will get a far better ride, without the need to upgrade one g-ddamned thing, so naturally, you will ride more. My first road bike was an AL Felt F85, made with 7005 SL aluminum, and I rode it for 3,900 miles. I still have it; it's my back up. My HM Carbon Ridley cost me 4 times what I paid for my Felt, but it rides 4 times better, and it's faster. Plus, it is what I wanted. There's no point in riding a bike, if you're not going to ride what you want.
An old joke amongst bike mechanics:
Q: What shifts better than a $30 Shimano rear derailleur?
A: Nothing
NWA Longriders This is what 48 years of serious riding has taught me. If there are any differences in shifting speed it would be measured in mili-seconds.
This is a complete lie, by the way. High-end, costly rear deraillerus are not only lighter and have better welds and cuts, but as such, they also shift faster and more smoothly. It's not worth it unless you're a pro I don't think, but it's still the case, but will cost you quite a bit more money just for that.
I just want to thank you funnzie, for making this video and for laying out the facts in such a clear, concise, practical and rational manner. I am not a person who would ever buy one of those 8 to 11.5 thousand dollar bicycles anyway. That doesn't mean that it haven't always had a question in my mind every time I saw prices in that range. The question being, "What could possibly be so fantastic about any bicycle that could make the value that high?" I'm obviously a little different than many if not most people. When I look at a product I always look at the price verses the intrinsic value. To me that means looking at what it cost to make this product. I look at the actual base material it is made from. Then I look at the labor cost. I know all of the people between the manufacturer and the end user have to make something in order to get that product to the end retail buyer/consumer. Everyone has to make a living.I have no problem with that.
When I look at a carbon frame bike for instance I cannot justify paying several thousand dollars or several hundred dollars if it goes over $500.00. Why? You may ask. The reason is that I have personally priced out the materials it costs to make that or a bike frame. The carbon fiber materials plus the resin can all be purchased for way under one hundred dollars. There are only so many configurations you can have in carbon fiber and resin materials. Let's not forget that a manufacturer is going to buy those materials at a much lower, wholesale price than I can because he, she is purchasing the resin in huge barrels and lots of them. He or she is buying the Carbon Fiber mesh cloth in huge quantities and I KNOW that the prices go down significantly when you buy in larger quantities. Quite frankly I doubt a manufacturer has more than US$50.00 per frame including labor costs. Since most of the frames are made in China their labor cost is even lower.
So how do they justify the prices? That is simple. In sales and marketing the general rule is that the fair price or fair market value is, "Whatever the market will bear." If someone is ready, willing and able to pay $11,500.00 US for a bicycle there is someone who will gladly make one for them and let that buyer stroke his or her ego by knowing that he or she bought the most expensive bike on the market. If it isn't ego then please tell me, why else would anyone pay more for a bicycle than some people in our country can afford to pay for their family car which is no doubt used? As funnzie pounted out they could almost buy 3 brand new motor cycles for the price of one of these high end bikes. Does it even make sense to pay a price equal to the cost of one motorcycle? It obviously depends upon who you are. I suppose there is the possibility that a bike racer "might" be led to believe that buying that most expensive bike will make the difference of whether they win or lose that big race. Just because someone led them to believe it does not make it so. We have to ask at some point if we are that top athlete who will be competing for the all time top position in bicycle racing. Isn't it that class of bicycle racer really the only person who would "need" that possible edge? If there really is an edge that is.
Wouldn't it make more sense for us to concentrate our time efforts and finances on perfecting our style, figuring out the best gear and cog configuration for our individual body and style of riding? Maybe we don't need a new bike but a little tweaking of the one we already own. Personally, I'm going to take the advice funnzie has set forth. First of all on my list is that I'm going to make sure my bike is properly aligned. Who needs to be fighting against that constant drag.
One warning for everyone. Make sure the bike shop you're depending on is more interested in you and your best interest than they are in selling you a more expensive bike. A case in point, I recently took my brand new bike into one of the two bike shops in town. Actually, I went to both. At one shop they were very helpful. At the other shop I was mostly insulted. I was asked; "What's the point of fixing up this bike?" Then I was told that they sold the type of bike already set up to do what I wanted to do for a mere $1,800.00. All he could do was dismiss anything positive about my brand new bike. All he was interested in was how he could get me to spend the big bucks and make a commission. Just be sure your bike dealer isn't a used car salesman in disguise. Not that all used car salesmen are bad or dishonest. It's just a stereotype I probably passed on in bad taste but I'm sure it got my point across.
Everyone, have a wonderful day!
DavidBruce Allen There is a value to these racing bikes in racing. But to the recreational rider (anyone who does not race) then all you say applies. It is too bad some bikes shops do this to you. I have not witnessed this yet, maybe they can tell by looking at me they can't BS me.
I think this is a rare case where persuaded ignorance is anything but bliss. If you are walking into a sport blinded by so called "research," you sir are the reason we all pay way too much for straightforward sports. At the end of the day, you need to be asking yourself how much fun you had. This should be your motivation, not the cost of your equipment. People can get so incredibly caught up in the numbers that they miss the whole point! I could not agree more with this guy. Excellent video and wise words!
britney murphy Thank you, you got the video was about people, not machines. Engines that are missing on bikes. Fitness and the true reason for riding...joy.
someone needs to respond to this video with a 3 minute summary, you could explain all the properties of the planets in the universe in less time.
I dozed off after 0:01, how about a 3 second summary. This video is like touring all the planets in the universe - in slow motion.
As an added note, the comparison between the motorcycle and the bicycle was hilarious. I always wondered why I could buy a Kawasaki KLR 650 for around $6500, less than these elite bicycles
lcar4000 Yes, thank you. The Honda out of the crate motocross racing bikes also cost less, about $7500.00. R&D for motocross far exceeds that of any bicycle.
I've been watching all your bike related videos and found them extremely usefull. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. Hope you continue to feel encourage to produce more. Thanks!
Thanks a lot and i love you funnzie. You just saved me from investing in
a Specialized 2014 rockhopper composite which after discount was coming
to 1000$. I am from india and my family of 3's entire grocery including
all the provisions and vegetables costs 100$/month. So that money is a
huge amout of saving for me. And frankly i am glad to not be a part of
this CULT of Cycling !!! I am currently planning to get a simple fuji
hybrid just to start shedding some weight. I am 122kgs thats about
270lbs i guess. FOr the long run i have already started looking for a
good sturdy Steel Frame to build my custom cycle. Thanks Once again.
Totally appretiate what you have done here .
Thank you. Yes, there is a huge difference in a bike needed for racing and a bike needed for recreational / commuting. A "good" bike is simply one that fits you, and is strong enough for your riding conditions, body weight, skill and strength.
Good for you! A steel bike is usually a comfortable ride and a hybrid is a smart choice for all kinds of terrain. As funnzia says. it's best if it fits you really well and is in good running order. The saddle may need some tweaking, but if your position is correct, your weight will be balanced and hands and bottom should be ok with fair distances.
Please see my design video, choice of materials in design is only the first step, any material can be designed for comfort, or any kind of use. As long as production is consistent design is the single most important decision in bike characterizes. Also please remember, the comfort characteristic of a bike is 70% fork, 20% tires and tire pressure, 5% wheel design, and 5% frame. With this formula even a stiff riding aluminum bike with a carbon fork can ride like a full steel or full carbon bike. Sometimes you just need to lower the air pressure 10psi. :)
Little things matter for professionals, realistically the only weight that matters is the COMBINED bike+rider weight. A climb for a 180# rider on a 20# bike requires the same energy as a 185# rider on a 15# bike.
Most high end bikes in the 3-6k range are around 16-17# vs a 20# bike from around $1500 at retail.
If paying 1k a pound is something you wish to do, by all means do so. Once going beyond the retail 3k mark every ounce will cost you hundreds. Also i am referencing LBS brands, bikesdirect/used/ect will be cheaper.
Nothing new about this, back in the "good old days" pro riders would pay absurd money for a fully custom steel frame barely lighter than mass produced models.
IF it is true that a rider loses 1 second per minute, per pound on a steep climb over 6%, than on a ten minute climb at 10mph the difference 5 pounds would make would be ~45m. That is pretty large if you are going to race, if not, it may be well worth the peace of mind durable components bring. With all the extra money you could even get a nice fluid trainer and book a vacation mid winter to some cycling paradise. If you shed 5 pounds in the process it'll be even and you'll have a nice tan.
All4Grogg In my racing days I used custom steel frames because of fit, performance, comfort, dependability and alignment. After getting a high end Italian frame completely out of alignment I went custom. But that was racing, a totally different cycling dimension than recreational riding. Today as a rec rider, I ride out of alignment bikes, and heavier low tech components, because fitness is my goal and bikes just need to be comfortable, safe, dependable, and perform reasonably over 100 miles. I have found the most I need to spend is $700 for this. But money has nothing to do with quality, we must research and test to find value. I hope to make a video with these values I have found.
As a bicycle mechanic (No Retail Sales) I love this guy. I don't think I have ever had one of these mail order bikes come in without some serious problems. Bent cranks, chainrings, forks and rims are common place. As a cycling enthusiast I cringe. He is right in the fact that very few of us need a 11 thousand dollar bike. A yugo will get you to work the same as a Porche but its not nearly as fun. Weight wise idk where his numbers come from but there is a world difference in a 19lbs and 22lbs bike. CHEAP bicyles are bikes that make people quit riding. You will notice a lot of these mail order bikes dont even list the weight until you see the shipping price. I recently had a girl bring in her "New Areo Tri-bike" aka cheap road model with cheap areobars. Bent chainring right out of the box, normal. But then when I lifted it into the stand, all 28lbs of it I for sure felt the price difference. People ofter come to me about new bikes and I'll even go if asked to help them shop, no problem, I love to do it. Once again I do no retail sales. But I warn them for lack of a better word to plan on starting between 1000-2000 dollars, it's just the way things work. Plus ride as many as possible. Everyone is built different so are bikes. If a shop doesn't encourage test rides get out its a bad sign. These bike prices were not randomly made up, they represnt what the market dictates. But like I said I'm just a simple bicyle mechanic with a billing rate at about 54 dollars an hour so keep buying those cheap bikes. They only end up in three places, my shop, your garage ceiling, or Craigs list.
Your comparison of Yugo to a Porsche is horrible. Driving a Yugo in a cross the state race against a Porsche, the Yugo driver would likely lose by 35%+ assuming there was no speed limit. Whereas if you took his $650 Motobacane vs an $11K Trek on a 300 mile race, the Trek rider might win by 3%, and my gut feeling is that this guy would mop the floor with you on that Trek bike.
Unless you are making your living off the Trek, why would you want to spend $11K for a bike?
Another poor assessment to your analysis is that you fail to understand that the average bike rider isn't going to have massive break downs on that Motobacane. However, the average person will have problems with a Yugo. A far closer comparison is a $18K Nissan Altima to a $80K Mercedes. And yes, the Altima is a far better value for the average Joe, which is what this video is about. If you think it's worth spending an extra $10,5K for a bike to get to the finish line 3% faster, by all means, spend away. But the average Joe or even casual competitor's success doesn't depend on 1-3% better times. Who cares if a casual competitor comes in 60th place or 64th place?
But if you got tons of money, and the big racing decals make you feel so much better, than yes....maybe the extra $10.5K is worth it.
You two are missing the point. It Is a hyperbole. There are very few people riding 11k bicycles. But there are a whole lot of people buying 1500 to 3000 dollar bike from shops. Already put together with parts that don't need to be immediately upgraded so some Internet company can advertise a 600 dollar bicycle. Most of the population think a 2000 dollar bicycle is ridiculous but a 600 dollar one sounds closer to budget. In reality I shouldn't say anything because mail order bicycles are a cash cow for me but I've seen first hand the disappointment of these bargain bikes. If you want to buy a used bicycle on Craig's List for 600 dollars that's one thing, you understand a certain risk is there. But you expect a new bicycle to be perfect for lack of a good word. And as far as weight goes like it or not a few pounds on the bike makes a world of difference. I'm not talking about racing, different subject all together, but for the everyday bicycle enthusiast.
This was a very intuitive point of view. Very valid points. For those who say that this video is saying the less expensive bike is better, that is not what he said. Watch the whole video and you will see the point. A pro rider may buy a more expensive bike. They also will, and often do have a bike custom built for them with the parts they like and use. He is speaking to the average rider not the experienced rider. Yes the Trek is super nice, but in the end a bike that fits your riding style is still better for you, not a bike that you have to change your style or size in order to ride. That was the point of this video.
Alexis ace 333 Well said, thank you.
This is an excellent video.
I have seen so many cyclists waste very great amounts of money on bicycles and equipment which will bring no benefit to them.
But why does this happen?
The problem is that consumerism has become such a powerful force. The belief that buying things will make you happy is continuously promoted in advertising.
There are publications and blogs which tell you that they give unbiased reviews of bicycles. Well they are not biased between one make of bicycle and another, but they are hugely biased in that they always promote the idea that you need to buy a new bicycle. The best piece of advice any publication or blog could give you is, "you don't need to buy a new bicycle" but you will never see that. The advertisers for the publication or blog want the readers to be customers.
A high end bike has replaced the sports car in the male mid-life crisis....
+C Challinor I'd prefer the sports car : )
+C Challinor With the power of the information in this video, now you can have both the sports car (used for $11,000) and a new bicycle.
People think the more money they spend for a bike will make them a better faster & more committed cyclist.. And they love the bragging rights that wow factor instantly gives when you are out cycling among other cyclist .. Only problem with that is usually within a year that high dollar bike is collecting dust in the garage.. It's like a person that's just starting to learn how to play guitar & they go out & drop five to ten thousand dollars for a Les Paul because it will make them play just like Slash & think just because they spent that much money that this guitar god playing ability will instantly happen & who needs time & practice to be good at it.. Just more proof that people even the smart ones can be really dumb..
Absolutely wonderful analogy!!! Thank you. I am a musician, I have been practicing for over 46 years to develop my style and performance. I play acoustic guitar and piano. I have been training on bike for that long also. There is a minimum in equipment or instrument to practice or train well. This video explains that.
Yes & you explain it in a way that relates to a seasoned pro or a novice that's just getting into the sport.. It was that structure that gave me the idea for the analogy ( throwing money at it will not make you the best it will not make you good or great & chances are it will ultimately cause you to become disinterested in the sport of cycling because that person will look at the kings ransom they spent & feel disgusted thinking that dedication & commitment was included with the price of the bike so why didn't I get it ) Wrong!! That's something you supply and it's something you can't buy.. Just like a Gibson that costs 10 grand & the person that buys it. They better be willing to commit to learning it & dedicate the time & effort to do so, otherwise they are going to have a really nice wooden paper weight that looks a lot like a really expensive Les Paul. ; - )
Almost forgot to mention that I started cycling at the age of 22 & stopped at 36 & that day i was on the same bike i started with at the age of 22.. (I'm 42 now) My Home borders the Chickamauga Battlefield National Park & i biked every road 2 to 4 times a week . I didn't challenge myself to go somewhere new I let it become boring & slowly phased it out.. So my excuse is I didn't get lazy I got bored .. Then I try not to ask myself what's the difference...lol
It is crazy the money some people spend on a bike. I did the same thing you did! I have a mail order bicycle for $300.00. It is many years later and I still ride this bicycle!! Good video- Thank you!!
Thank you. Yes, a recreational rider can ride without a racing bike and be just as fit and happy as those who spend thousands!
Very good video. Worth watching from beginning to end. I have done videos myself--but they are nowhere near the detail presented here. This man knows his business. Everyone. Watch this video.
Just get a bike just right for you, why is that so hard to understand?
Some may prefer high-end bikes, some may not need them.
It doesn't matter which bike you're on, as long as you love cycling.
+Jack Kang For those of us living in poverty this video provides valuable information in the true cost of riding in America. You now have accurate information from someone who does not profit from your purchase.
This was interesting. I can agree with a lot of points. But... I WILL say that 2 years ago, I started riding on a Walmart road bike that was about 300 bucks. After 20 miles, it was almost unbearable to continue. After a year of riding 20 miles 4 times a week, I bought a Felt Z5. I paid 1300 bucks for it. I added a Selle SMP saddle which was 250 bucks, and left the rest stock. It instantly improved my comfort and distance times. I am 6'5'' and weigh 212 pounds. The Felt is a 61cm frame, which is the first frame that has really ever fit me correctly. I now ride 30 to 45 miles 4 times a week, depending on how I feel that day. I DEFINITELY think that 11 grand is insane for a bike, no matter what the technology may be.... But the Z5 has been fantastic for me personally. Also, my average speed (according to "map my ride") went from 12.5 mph on the wally world bike, to 16 to 18 mph on the Felt Z5. So in my opinion, proper fit and better quality has made cycling 100 times more enjoyable for me. I like to listen to all points of view and decide for myself what to go by. I did enjoy your video. :)
I think "middle of the road" bikes are the way to go. It's the way to do most things in life, honestly.
nutnfan1 I didn't think there was anyone in the world like you. Life in moderation. Thank you. That is all.
Trevor s FIU Thanks for the positive feedback! :)
When he spoke of reasonably priced bikes, I don't believe Wal-Mart bikes are anywhere in his mix. Wal-Mart stuff, IMHO, is purely entry level equipment.
Very nice to hear it fit you correctly. I have my GMC denali 6061 alloy and at 14 kg I still maintain a 22mph speed on it. I do have my carbon bike with 60mm carbon wheels but it can't come close to the GMC for run rides!!
Very refreshing to hear someone with a resume such as yours dispelling the hype of the top tier equipment. Since it adds little to no value, it speaks to the incredible effect marketing has on consumers. Explains, why our mailboxes are filled with Junk mail nearly every day.. Marketing works. I have an old Japanese road bike with a great frame I will be replacing the Crankset and headset this year. I will save a ton of money and still have a fantastic bike when done. Cheers.
+Robert Martin Thank you. Recreational cyclists have forgotten that a bicycle does not come with an engine.
What most consumers don't seem to understand is that most companies spend around 5% of the total cost of the end product to make it(including R and D). So most of the cost is marketing/people with too much money to spend. 95% of the price is pure profit.
I was a production manager for 22 years, I wish it only cost us 5%. Profit cannot be known by anyone but a few executives, we must use comparisons and reach our conclusion of value through the competition of the free market.
Some good points made here by Funnzie. However several misleading. I.E. Transmission costs. Shifters;$700.00? Crank $2000.00? Cassette: 500.00 chain; $100.00. Top end components don't cost this much. Even Campy Super Record EPS shifters are much less than 700.00. Shimano Dura Ace cranks or Even Campy are around $500.00 not $2000.00. Cassette $500.00? Nope I use Ultegra with my Dura Ace and can get them for about $60.00 and chains are about $40.00. A complete Shimano DI2 electronic group set can be purchased for about $2300.00. So quite a bit of inaccuracy here.
Now the question that high end bicycle cost is inflated is no doubt. As Funnzie showed you can purchase a motorcycle for less than the cost of a high end road bike...even some mid range bikes. But it seems the cyclists purchasing these have there reasons because there is indeed plenty of market for them and I see plenty of them on the road. I guess part of the appeal is a rider can purchase very close to or maybe even the same bike his favorite rider in the peleton rides. An appeal that can't be done with many other sports, after all F1 fans can't to go out and purchase the Mercedes F1 that Lewis Hamilton or Nico Rosberg drives....even if they had the funds! Most middle to upper middle class cyclists can. With a bit saving or scrimping they can afford a high end bike but wont likely wont reach the financial level to run down to car dealership and purchase a Ferrari or McClaren.
The next to last thing is I definitely haven't experienced any of the issues that Funnzie noted about his Ultegra and Dura Ace equipped bikes. I have ridden 10's of thousand of miles on Ultegra and Dura Ace components and the only problem I ever experienced was on my Ultegra 9spd STI Triple shifter would stick when temps fell below 45 degrees...its still shifted but you had to stab at it a couple times. It shifted fine when warm and I still use it.
Lastly the ultimate point of this article is true...you don't need to spend 15K on a high end bike to enjoy the sport of cycling....just like a driver doesn't have to spend 300K on a Ferrari to enjoy a Sunday drive down the coast. A lot of comfort and quality can be purchased for $800.00 to 2000.00. I highly recommend not overlooking the comfort factor and purchasing from a quality bike shop familiar with proper bike fitting. Even a 15K bike can be torture to ride if your fit is not correct!!! Maybe even consider a bike fit cost session into your bicycle purchase budget.
Thank you. The video only covers recreational riding, so a racing cyclist may want or need to have the highest cost bike available, depends on the racers goals and finish placement. a 16k bike will never give a win to a mid field finisher if they are riding a 4k road racing bike. The drivetrain costs were for the year this video was made and included the cost of PowerMeter crank wish was 2k then. The drivetrain components were probably not the same model year you have, remember there are 30 or more years of models, they all did not function well or exactly the same. I included the high end racing drivetrains problems so viewers would know there are problems at all levels. The prices were gathered from the internet for the year the video was made and were accurate.
This is the silliest bike explanation I've ever seen. It's like watching your grandpa explain how the internet works.
Here's the basic skinny on and I think it could have been explained better if Mr. funnzie wasn't so biased. Most people don't need a bike anywhere close to $11k, but there is a niche for those riders. Steel and Aluminium frames work just fine, but the future is carbon and carbon composites. What people don't understand is that not all carbon frames are made the same. You have companies like Trek and Specialized just to name a few that spend millions in R&D developing methods in creating stronger and lighter carbon frames. They develop these frames for the advanced rider, not the weekend cyclist. There's no weight scam. What they develop for the $15,000 bike eventually trickles down to the $700 bike. Most people don't go into a bike shop and tells the rep they want the most expensive bike in the store. Trek for example, sells the 1.2 for $769. With that, you get a pretty great aluminum frame, carbon fork and a Shimano drive train. It's comparable to the Motobecane which had a "list price" of by the way of $1299.
As with ANY bike, the cost will rise depending on the drivetrain (which, by the way you can customize to your liking on the $15k bike before you buy it). There's no myth about weight. Lighter bikes and more aerodynamic bikes are scientifically faster. I think what this video is trying to say and completely missing is that being faster doesn't really matter. Speed is pointless unless you're pushing yourself to the limit. Once you're close to that limit however, every ounce and every millisecond counts. At that point, cycling is more than racking up mile, it's about racking up wins.
Lastly, the true cost of anything is in the demand. A $50 watch will work just as well as a $50,000 watch. Also, how can you honestly do a comparison video claiming the more expensive bike is crap when you only have your own bike for reference. That's a bit like saying a Ferrari F12 is probably garbage compared to a Honda Civic I used to own. It's idiotic and I honestly don't understand why this has over 1.2 million views.
+cmike2780 What video did you watch??? These comments have nothing to do with the video. The video proves price has nothing to do with dependability, performance, strength. I never said the Trek was "crap". This bike is necessary for those racing, the video states under recreational riding conditions, the race bikes don't offer anything except high cost. The high cost of the bike is tuned for racing, not recreational riding. So while you can save seconds on a race bike in a race, any seconds saved in your recreational ride is not worth mentioning. You are full of the myths and just keep repeating them, anyone who uses price to determine quality are inexperienced cyclists just pretending to be high mileage riders who have decades of experience and miles. To my viewers, here is a perfect example of someone commenting with only a very limited knowledge of cycling preaching the myths.
+funnzie I'm talking about the worthless 37 min video you made. I'm not repeating myths, you're too stubborn, hardheaded and egotistical to accept anyone's opinion. You categorize "recreational" as somehow non dependent on quality parts. I've been cycling all my life and my father owned a bike shop. High mileage cycling doesn't make you an expert any. That's like calling myself a professional race car driver because I drive 20,000 miles a year.
To the viewers, here's an example of someone pretending to know what they're talking about. If you want reliable knowledge, look elsewhere...or better yet, go to a local bike shop. This guy's views are as outdated as his videos. They look like those cheesy 80's infomercial for crying out loud. FYI, we stopped calling them "race bikes" decades ago. They're called road bikes and further broken down by specific purposes such as all-around performance, endurance/gravel, triathlon/time trial & touring.
The only one using price to determine quality is you buddy. You specifically chose to compare an $11.5k bike against a $650 one. I don't even know who your target audience is. The elderly biking for the first time? People stuck in the 80's who still think synthesized music should be played in public? I've been around bikes all my life and the people spending $11k on a bike know what they're buying. Those buying the $650 bike also know what they're buying. There's no scam. There's no deception. Lighter bikes with the right drive-train can make a huge difference on a climb, even if you're just a "recreational" cyclist who rides 100 miles a week. Will it make you as fast as a pro cyclist? of course not. Just do all of us a favor and actually ride one of these "race bikes" (lol) at your local bike shop. They usually have demo's available. Then do a review instead of just comparing pictures you found on the internet.
+cmike2780 Again, your comments don't reflect the video content. I think you didn't watch the video, and are commenting on what you think was in the video. Again more myths "make a huge difference" NO! the video states what the difference is between a very strong dependable road bike (the Motobecane) and a top of the line racing bike, a few minutes faster per hour in the mountains and a few seconds per hour in the flats. That is what race bikes are made for, saving seconds in a race. I own 7 different bikes ranging in weight from 22 pounds to 35 pounds, they all perform about the same..why? Because the bikes fit me, are adjusted and maintained, use high quality tires, but mostly because I have learned the skill of smooth pedal strokes, a wide range cadence, and a constant changing of power through the 360 degree crank cycle and alternating out of saddle climbing with seated. This efficiency is a skill and part of the learning process of cycling. You can train for the skills or try and purchase an expensive bike to do the skills for you....the latter does not work however. Bikes don't come with engines, once correctly fit and positioned and the bike can support your strength/skill level, that is all the bike can do for you to any degree beyond what the video states, the rest is the engine. Focus on the engine after fit and position and you will be a great cyclist and reap the benefits of fitness. That carbon bike will not make you even 1% more fit. That is the true cost of riding in America, for most the example of the Motobecane Grand Record will support this. OR any bike equivalent to the Motobecane.I use general terms for road bikes in the video, because I am not reviewing a specific bike but referring to the mass of "road bikes" one would choose from. I identify bikes by frame angles and handlebars. With all the hybrid bikes out there, the only accurate identity of a bike is by frame angles. A drop bar bike with a short wheelbase and a 73 to 75 headtube angle I classify as full race bikes. 71 to 72 degree headtubes and longer wheelbase with drop bars are sport and touring road bikes....with flat bar bikes in the category labeled as hybrid or adventure bikes. Headtubes of shallower angles are for mountain off road bikes and comfort bikes. With all new designs surfacing this covers most bikes in an accurate form. There are many types of bikes now designed to function well in specific environments, so your comment about my classification and labeling is also a myth and misleading.I have learned the SCAM!! is coming from people like you pretending to be a cyclist, but all you know is techno garbage. So for my viewers out there, it is your choice who you listen to, and your choice what you buy. I hope this video has taught you the importance of fitness and health, not how a bike is going to do it for you. That is the MYTH, the bike is does NOT give you speed or health.
+funnzie Glad you used the "engine" as example. Ever seen what happens when you put a seemingly average, run of the mill engine from a Honda Civic or Ford Focus into a much light frame? Do a search for an Ariel Atom. If you're going to extremes and focusing this analogy on someone overweight, well then obviously a lighter bike won't make a difference. Is that your target audience? Fat people who've never biked before and gullible enough to pay thousands of dollars on a road bike? Who is your "recreational" cyclist exactly?...because a rider in their mid 30's in average shape is more than capable of benefiting performance from a lighter bike. You're a greatly underestimating the skill set of most riders. Head tube angles, while important in rider position in not an indicator of Pro vs Amateur. Is one more comfortable than the other, of course it is. Thank you captain obvious!
If you have 7 different bikes that perform exactly the same, then logically you've wasted your money on 6 unnecessary bikes. I don't know what bikes you have, so let's say they're as much as the Motobecane at $650. That's $4,550 worth of bikes serving the same purpose and the same performance and you're rattling off about how insanely expensive bikes are? Just saying. You sir got scammed. Quantity does not equal quality.
+Architek Photography You like to argue, this is of little value to my viewers, I am going to answer this last comment and then I am done with you. I have 7 bikes, all of them perform a different function for different terrain and conditions and cargo. I don't use my road bike to off road in the mountains, I don't use my road bike for caring heavy cargo... and so on. I don't know what "scam" your're talking about, anyone using one bike for everything isn't thinking clearly.
Wow. I kept looking for the "speed it up" button to click. On and on with little substance. It could have been a good topic if it were condensed down to 2.5 minutes. The point is valid, so many riders forget the most important component is between the seat and the pedals, but sitting through this thing is a waste of time that could been on the saddle.
I mostly agree with your conclusions. Historically I have mostly ridden entry- mid-level bikes for years. For the most part they did OK, but I would wear out componets as expected. About 15 years ago I dropped about 3K on a road bike. A friend of mine owned a shop and he and I worked together to build a "dream bike". I have never regretted spending that money, not even for a second. The bike still rides like brand new. I have had no mechanical breakdowns. The only thing I have replaced was the saddle. The wheels are about due for a true, but they have not been touched since my friend built them and trued them shortly after a short "settle in" period. The frame is stiff and responsive, the Campy Chorus group still works like brand new, it's comfotable, responsive and looks and feels awesome. I am not recommending everyone do what I did, but for me, I don't regret spending the money on the nice frame and good components. I also am meticulous on maintenance. I keep it cleaned and lubed.
Manufacturers don't list the weight of their bicycles because they off many different frames sizes and components so the weight varies. Weight is not the only reason for a carbon frame. strength, stiffness, geometry and aerodynamics are also major factors. if you think 11,500.00 is too expensive then simply don't buy it. Furthermore it is virtually impossible for a carbon frame to be out of alignment. But like he said this is for recreational riders so some of what he says I can agree with. If money was no object I would buy the 11,500.00 trek without blinking. It has nothing to do with "bling" factor it's because it's what I want. Now this "hubaloo" about the more expensive components being less durable to the point of him constantly dropping chains and breaking derailleurs then he must have had some bad luck.
If bike makers have the time to take a studio photo for every single model, they can easily weight every model they offer.
As for the different sizes, they can weight a middle size for all models to simplify comparison.
Abdul
They could but They don't manufacture components. All of these big companys only manufacture frames. When they say that they have made a bike a pound or two lighter they are talking about the frame only. If your'e that concerned about what the bike weighs you can go to a LBS and get the one that your'e interested in weighed.
Thomas Winfree
That's true, bike vendors mainly make the frame (exception is Trek, which makes most of the components). Still they are the ones choosing the components that go on their bikes. They are responsible for the total weight of the full bike. So, I see no conflict in listing the total weight of the bike they built (frame) and put together (components).
Abdul Umm, no. Shjmano, SRAM, Campy make most of the components. Trek makes frames and that's about it.
TheVoiceofReason
Trek owns Bontrager which makes, stems, handlebars, seat, seat post, wheel, tries, bearings, and more. All of those things effect the weight of a bike more than Sram and Shimano drive train and brakes
So your point is people spend more on bikes than they need? Why does anyone need a $150,000 sports car? Or why does my wife need a $400 purse? Yes we are a consumerist society who spends and spends.
It's a relief to view this video, and then all the comments below, and reevaluate not only what I intend to look for in my first major bike purchase (read: expensive) but the reasons I like to ride. I don't intend to race, although I'd enter one for fun. You've reminded me that I've had some really fun times on the bike I already own, and it would just be nice to find something like my Klein Quantum that fits me better! 53 cm is no good for a 6'.
Adam Cox Yes, way too small for you, unless you have very short legs. Normally a 6 foot rider with an inseam of 32 inches would use a 58cm. With compact frames today, this has become much more confusing. You will need to read frame specs very carefully for standover and top tube lengths. Then decide how upright you want to be on the bike, the more compact the frame the longer the head tube and more upright position you will be in.
Hi,
I really enjoyed your video,
Having spent £1000,s in the past building my various mountain bikes, and enjoying them, it went really crazy on the prices for bikes/ components etc.
It frustrated me to see people showing up week after week with more and more gear, what I call bike jewellery, and exactly as you explained, if you don’t have the skill they are no use to you.
I recently picked a Boardman cx team from this year, I bought it second hand from someone who never used it, I paid £400, plus fitting my pedals and cages,
I’m commuting and riding single track on it,
I can honestly say I’ve never enjoyed a bike as much at any cost,
The components are competent, and if I break anything, it’s not the end of the world.
I believe the main reason that the high dollar bikes are the cost that they are, is that people are prepared to pay the money, we have been lead down this path for far too long.
Cheers
Justin
Thank you, we are reminded they are just bicycles with an average engine output of 00.15 horsepower.
I appreciate the thoughts, efforts and intentions of the funzie, but this is far too long-winded: the sound is very poor (volume very low. I appreciate that its long-windedness is to give the viewer complete information and for an in-depth defence against criticism from the expensive bike industry and riders, but a short, punchy synopsis at the start covering the main points, and follow with an invite to watch further if in need of more detail would result in many more views.
I'm only sticking it to the end because my 25-year-old son, who does not earn a lot of money for his very hard work, paid £1,000 for his bike. I an 65, and when I rode a BSA, Flying Scot, Raleigh or Peugot, they lasted, as did my brothers' one of whom was a serious racer who did a lot of training miles.
Anyway, no offence intended, and I am very appreciative of your motives.
Thanks, from George in Scotland.
that was great! Thank you for taking the time to make the video, it was HIGHLY informative. :)
Mr. funnzie, thank you sir, for taking your time to make this informative video. It's probably been over 15 years since I've been on a bike, and my, how bike shopping's changed. Sooo many options, sooo much money. You helped me out by clearing up a couple questions I've had, while providing me with some insight. Thank you!
SQTierHog You're welcome. Today it almost costs more to upgrade a bike than to buy a new one. Start with a fun bike you like to ride, make sure it fits you correctly and step back into the fitness world of outdoor recreation where you will find more than just fitness.
Sir, thanks for the reply. Yes, the best way to get fit (other than eating healthy), is getting outside and enjoy what's out there. Well, instead of buying a new bike, I dusted off my 1996 Cannondale. Last time I rode it was the late 90's, but I've always kept it stored well. After washing and re-greasing it up a bit, I took it out for a ride. I forgot how enjoyable it is to simply ride a bike...Thank you again!
I do agree with everything are saying so far but I have to leave before I fall asleep. How is it possible to speak so slowly and still be awake!
Just this video, I spoke slowly because I knew this presentation goes against the mainstream thinking of the cycling community. So my intent was to ease you in slowly to the truth, because the media is full of cyclists parroting what some pro said and never tested the advice for themselves as a recreational cyclist. All my other videos are at a higher pace.
I always speak slowly and clearly when doing my tutorial videos. Not everyone's first language is English. Thanks for making this video. I have been told by more than one person that cycling is a fools paradise.
Yes, for those who think the bike is going to do the work for them...a fools paradise. For the rest of us, we know it is a sport...a fitness sport where we take great care of the engine of the bike.
All those miles and he still hasn't learned to use a helmet.
+Phil Houck How safe is a sport if you can participate in it for 50 years and 500,000 miles and still be going strong without injury? How dangerous is driving an automobile instead? The chance of hitting my head with a helmet is 100% - The chance of hitting my head in the last 50 years has been 0%. Myths and lies are multiplied when all you do is repeat what you hear instead of researching truth.
+funnzie And tomorrow you could fall and be seriously injured. You could be a vegetable for the rest of your life. There is no excuse for not taking reasonable precautions. I've always worn a helmet and one day a dog ran right out in front of me and I wound up falling on my head. Without a helmet, I wouldn't be writing this. You've been very lucky. Tomorrow your luck can fail.
+Phil Houck I do take the proper precautions. Martial arts has taught me how to fall safely without serious injury. I have trained my upper body for strength to support the head and prevent serious injury. And I ride with skill and caution, never exceeding line-of-sight and braking distance. Why would you wish me to go from a 0% head injury record to a 100% head injury record by wearing a helmet. The helmet makes my head larger making it impossible to keep my head from hitting the pavement using my martial arts skill. You need to stop repeating what people tell you and do the research, helmets provide very little protection, SKILL and STRENGTH and INTELLIGENCE provide 95% of your safety, the equipment is only 5%.
+Phil Houck You know more pedestrians have head injuries from falls than cyclists. So if you go with your precautions, everyone walking around should be wearing helmets, not cyclists. Also a head injury in your automobile is much more likely than on a bicycle, so you better wear a helmet when you drive too. So you'll be wearing a helmet most of your life now....so now do you feel safe....There is a limit and everyone decides what there safety measures will be, listen or soon you'll be wearing that helmet by law 24 hours a day....for precaution.
+funnzie Sorry but I see your arguments about head injuries in cars and on the street as seriously flawed. Where did you get this information? The reading I did about head injuries in cars made it clear that these injuries were suffered because the drive/passenger was not using a seatbelt. Moreover with seatbelts and multiple airbags available in the majority of cars, people are effectively wearing helmets. I would like to see the stats on pedestrian head injuries.
I don't deny that you are probably far better prepared for a fall than the vast majority of riders, providing you have adequate warning of a crash event, but that does not mean you're impervious to head injuries. No matter the level of accomplishment of a rider, a helmet adds to their safety. And to claim that by wearing a helmet you go from "0% head injury record to a 100% head injury record by wearing a helmet" is simply unsustainable. I cannot imagine any organization that is concerned with head injuries would agree that you're better off without a helmet.
Sorry but I cannot agree with any of your arguments. Tomorrow, you'll go out for a ride and despite all the miles you have in experience, there's always a real chance you'll sustain an injury that will leave you helpless for the rest of your life when a helmet would have made all the difference. Drop the denial and get with reality.
This is my last word on the subject.
Thank you for the video! I am looking at getting a road bike purely for something to ride to work and a little fitness on the weekends. I think you just saved me a ton of money and also turned my focus towards what is important when riding (Correct fit, balance, configuration, engine, etc.).
I will agree that this is a little long winded and that the volume had to be turned up all the way, but I certainly appreciate the value and effort you were trying to convey!
I am now on my way to purchasing a used aluminum frame Vincitore Velo Razzo road bike (with a Carbon Fiber Fork) for about $250.
Before watching this video I was convinced that I needed a Cervelo P3 Carbon Frame (or similar) for at least $2,000 - $5,000 ...
+Jasen Yardley You are welcome. Racing bikes are for racing and saving seconds in a race. I think you made a wise decision when not needing those seconds on your way to work. Leave home a 30 seconds earlier and save thousands of dollars.
Hi Funnzie, thanks so much for your video. I am new to cycling and am interested in learning more about bikes. What you shared made a lot of sense to me. This video has made me consider what is important. The bike or the rider of the bike? I think it is true that people are being fooled into spending more money than is necessary, after all, is this not the way of the world. You could make the same video possibly about any other industry. People pay mostly for the brand and the symbolic value these brands represent. Also, people like to stand out and be different.
What was refreshing in your video was that you were thinking about what people need to ride successfully and safely. I can only take your word for it that you managed to ride so far on relatively inexpensive bikes. That is the main message I got from your video. It makes a change from from the normal competitive trend you often see.
Simon Gibson I made the video after testing bikes to find out the minimum for safety, dependability and performance. You are now armed with good information on what it costs to enter the bicycle sport and get equipment that matches your skill. Skill and strength and intension of riding determines how much spend past this.
Trek's high end bikes are not made in China.
He took the Trek Madone 7 series and calculated how much it would cost to produce based on China's wages. That is an inaccurate comparison because the "11,500" Madone is not made in China.
Don't be a fool! All high end bikes are made in China. No one in the world can make these bikes any cheaper, hence why they are made there.
Whatthehell ishappening I’m not sure why I am entertaining your ignorant comment, but if you do simple research, you’ll find that Trek’s high end bikes are manufactured in Waterloo, Wisconsin. Some are even manufactured in Hartmansdorff, Germany and the Netherlands. That being said, why am I a fool?
Don't believe everything your told, but if you want to believe that ,than so be it. Just to give you a little background, I use to work for a very high end road bike company, so I know what I know. Thanks for the reply thou..
So the warehouse in Waterloo is just there for show as part of a conspiracy to make us believe bikes are manufactured here instead of China? Pfft.
If you purchased an all carbon motorcycle i'm sure it would be more than 11,500
I listen to this video every time when I'm having trouble falling asleep. This guy os awesome!
This is guy is telling real stuff and I know what you mean. You should check out this "Sleep With Me Podcast" channel If you haven't yet :-)
Thanks for your wisdom sir. It goes to show that as long as you enjoy riding a bike, cost is not even a problem or heavily considered. Just be practical or be cost-effective on upgrades, the tires, wheelsets, brakes, and saddles for comfort and safety. But not spend a gargantuan 3k-8k on a bike...
You are welcome. The bike need only match your; 1. body weight 2. strength 3. skill 4. intention of riding 5. terrain. 6. body dimensions. After this the rest is for racing. See my drivetrain video of low cost very strong drivetrains.
Don't know what Ultegra parts you've ran, but I have ran my all Ultegra LOOK 555 which I do maintain very well for 10,000 plus miles now with no more than a readjustment, and I paid a whopping $1800.00 for mine on sale. Well, well worth the money.
Have Ultegra on my Greg Lemond Racer.... Haven't been abused but they work great....
The year it was made is as important as the model. You can't just say all 28 years of Dura-Ace is flawless unless you have tested each model year. All you can state is the year you own functioned or did not.
They charge these prices because they can and gullible people will buy what they have been told is 'the best'. That's what commercialism is all about, advertising, illusions and bragging rights.
People will pay vast percentages of their budget to get the illusion of 5% improvement 'on paper' ! And the manufacturers are constantly looking to improve things in order to sell even higher priced components to people who study the numbers.
(Almost) everyone is more willing to pay for improvements than to work for them.
they charge those prices because it takes research and experimentatiln. the molds cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to make when you take labor into account. a $200-600 bike is not nearly as good of a bike as a $3,000 bike in a million years . quality and strength really are better. a $650 bike is never going to weigh 14 lbs and be as strong as a $2,000 bike. get real sir.
Those fractions of grams in weight saving per item don't make any difference to the average commuter. They do make a difference to competitive athletes who need to gain hundredths of seconds but for every day riding a more utilitarian bike makes much more sense. If it's cheap to make then it's cheap to repair.
Looks like you are one of those who fell for the hype and actually believes he needs to spend $3000 plus to get a bike that's worth having !
it's not fractions of grams it;s multiple to tens of grams per component which quickly add up to lbs. I don't know anybody that actualy commutes to work on a bike other than retards!! most people drive a car to work because of reality like rain and riding a bike takes way too much time out of the day. about $3000 is where it stops making any difference . $650 bikes have tapered cranks that fall off in the middle of a ride. more expense for the most part does mean a better bike . the difference overall between that and what I own $1500 is 12 lbs overall that I don't have to lug around and way more reliability in strength and not failing. then there is frame stiffnes and aerodynamics that make me not lose 20% of my energy in pedal strokes and even more in drag. you don't have to be a racer to recognize that difference. a $650 bike also is more likely not to be aligned very well and more likely to have tons of quality check concerns a more expensive bike never has. sounds like to me a poor person who can't afford nice things crying sour grapes. a good middle ground bike is $1500-2000 to keep for years and year where the $650 bike will probably only last a few seasons at most. theh difference in bearings alone makes for over 20% less pedalling effort. that and they require less maintanance andn are actually serviceable unlike lesser priced bearings.
a gram is 1/32 of an ounce. the point is the difference in component weight is important because it will add up to lbs when you add them all up.
your video is contradictory to common sense and it'self.
It's not my video
I finally found this channel after 6 years of hiatus from cycling. For those negative comments I want to say this. Years ago I follow all the advice found on this channel. I was able to keep on with the guys with $8000++ road bikes on my $1000 accessories included hybrid bikes. I'm so glad I found this channel again because I just bought a new bike and I'm getting ready to hit the road again. Thank you.
Thank you. The energy of the outdoors, the joy of fitness, the discipline of the pure lifestyle....Welcome back my old friend.
@@funnzie Thank you so much for your prompt reply. Since you replied to me I would love to share something with you. I'm coming back the the hobby that I love so much but I'm a little scared. I'm just in my low 40s but back the un days a sued to be a good cycles, now I'm 40 pounds overweight and with circulatory issues on my legs. I bought a Specialized Sirrus 2.0 and I will be starting cycling this weekend. I would love to see a videos on how to start cycling after a log hiatus and overweight. Thank you for your replay. Cheers.
Cycling should improve the circulation in the legs, muscle tone in the legs act as a pump to help return blood to the heart. This I have read, but don't know if true. My question is where are those extra pounds located on your body. For me all the extra weight goes to my belly fat, for others they are more fortunate with fat evenly spread across the body. The belly fat gets in the way of leg movement on a bicycle, and so a very upright body position is needed on the bike. One of my bikes has a steering tube extension to get the handlebars higher. As we sit more upright on a bike, (as opposed to the aerodynamic position of a racing or time trial bike), we place more body weight on the saddle. You may need to experiment with many saddles until you find one that works for you. Also, if you don't possess the skill of out of saddle riding it must learned and the bike needs to be adjusted for long stretches of out of saddle pedaling. Now, if you have never used pedals that lock your to your feet (clipless or toe-clips and straps) out of saddle pedaling requires you to use locked feet for safety. You don't want to slip off the pedals when pedaling out of the saddle! The gears must be adjusted perfectly too, gear slippage during out of saddle pedaling can be dangerous if you don't have good skills; leaning too far forward while out of the saddle pedaling and have a gear slip will cause a sudden weight shift forward and you lose control of the bike. IF using locked in pedals for the first time, you will need full concentration while riding, something we should be doing anyway. Full concentration means when you get physically tired you remain mentally alert by forcing you mind to be active and quick. When physically tired it is easy to settle into a sluggish mindset. I have learned this concentration mindset when training at high intensity, ignoring the discomfort of high heart-rates and focusing on my pedal strokes, body position and overall efficiency.
For training the body, the focus needs to be on getting the first 30 pounds off. Training needs a pure lifestyle. Many people exercise so they can eat crap food, this is a ridiculous way to live. The PURE lifestyle is providing high quality food (fuel) so you have the energy next day to continue training. Crap food becomes the enemy of the body, lifestyle, and cycling. Pure food is prepared by you with organic/natural ingredients; and the ingredients are made by God with the least amount of man's interference. Restaurant food is 99.9999% unlikely to be pure, microwave cooking is deadly. I prepare all my meals (one day a month may be bought) and it takes very little time, and I make plenty for many days of left-overs, which is just a re-heating prep. Raw foods (nuts, fruits, vegetables) are certainly quick too.
Your heart will be under a strain for the first year of training with the extra weight, so low intensity will be your riding style until the weight is off. I am not a doctor, so your doctor needs to be involved in your training and return to a pure lifestyle. Do NOT engage in commercial diet plans, there is NOT a secret diet food or strategy. It is dangerous to use pills/drinks/powders/potions/ made by man to speed up weight loss, these pills or potions can be anything. I believe God gave us the food we need, we have perverted His food with pesticides, herbicides, chemical additives for flavor. Commercial farming has certainly depleted the minerals in the soil, but hopefully by eating organic you obtain higher levels of minerals. IF you don't have a PURE lifestyle and engage in fitness, the results will be erratic, or dangerous, or failure. We add fitness to our lives to take control of our lives, if food drives you then your true passions in life are missing. Crap food as reward for a bad day or life is destructive, PURE lifestyles are NOT destructive. Destructive lives are a horrible spiral to death. PURE lifestylists don't give up. PURE lifestylist get up when knocked down. PURE lifestylists know it is a self love.
Is self love selfish? NO! Those who don't love themselves expect others to do it for them; that is selfish.
Excellent video, thank-you! And your patience interacting in the comments is commendable!
Clifford Davis Thank you.
I don't think it's fair to show all those cheep bikes direct brand bikes in comparison with more established brands, because those bikes cut out all local bike shops. I think a fair comparison would be say an 800 dollar entry level road bike with a high end racing machine. Buying those "no middle man" bikes does nothing to promote the cycling community... I mean yeah the bikes direct frames are pretty comparable with an entry level trek, specialized or what not, but to cut out the local bike shops really sucks
I don't know what this guy's scam is, but I'm not buying it. True, you can over-spend on a bike, and many bikes are over-priced but there is a vast, vast difference in what you get in a cheap bike and what you get in a bike that costs just a bit more. You can't get a decent set of wheels on a cheap bike. You usually get a crap frame on a cheap bike. You can go right down the line and prove that this guy is full of it!
Martin , Great video, I agree with you, there is too much marketing hype that is influencing recreational cyclists to buy bikes they should not buy.
Thank you. Now we can truly buy "fast bikes", they are called Ebikes. :)
I love the video. I played semi-pro football from age 41 to 47 and was never less than second string on teams that had many former college and some former pro-football players. As a safety who didn't play college football I knew I could only level the playing field via hard work. In fact I trained in ways and at times that the younger guys couldn't conceive. Kinda want a bike that will be reliable but force me to train in ways that others won't. I'm also the same guy who mows my lawn with a push mower while wearing a hoodie and pulling a power sled. But I guess I am simply into making sure it is always me who can make the difference.
Personally and firstly, Bicycles are priceless to a cyclist who has passion, so this can be also effect about pricing. In addition, bicycle is a sport; real hardcore sport If you go thourgh, you gain everything; generally health, cardio vascular healt, balancing blood pressere....and more more, being fit, POWER, ENDURANCE, MENTAL POWER, psychological power to get on problems more confidently, self confidence, truth freedom (you dont need any fuc..ng fuel) and more more more with bicycle, It is nature, not killing by cancer, animals, people in long term with exhaust gases. By bicycle, your immune system is getting perfect, you cannot be catched easily no more. Moto cycle has tax wages, fuel cost, experience tire issues, etc, in few year, you will look and say "ohh I wish I buy that 10000 dolars bicycle, since motorcycle's cost in few years reached to 50000 thousand :D. In metropol, you are faster than a ferrari, speed cannot be issue especially in crowded metropol. Sum up, you gain everything with riding bicycle that definetly you cannot do the same with moto cycle and other motor vehicles.
this video is to the people that have NO intention of getting into racing at all. little factors like a few grams off the shift lever weight would be something that a professional racer or just any biker that loves to go fast and improve on speed would want. the way this guy is presenting the video is directed to people completely new to biking and have no intention of being fast or shedding weight off their bikes. he made it seem that bikes over 3000$ were complete nonsense, which they arent. i cant tell if hes being cheap, bashing on expensive bikes that he cant afford, or simply not presenting his information well enough.
I guess what you are saying is the guy who made the video accurately advertised who the audience is.
my comment was adressed to those complaining that he was innacurate in what he said
no actually i dont really road bike often lol. just had to respond to all the uncalled for hate that the video was getting
I am bashing the manufacturers of bikes in excess of $4000.00. Yes I am. I project they can be made for less than half that...oh wait, they are. And for bikes in the $10,000 plus market, they are an insult to every experienced rider and any human with common sense who values fitness, health and peace for this earth. Buy a $2000.00 17 pound carbon bike and feed the hungry with the rest.
funnzie obviously the bike manufacturers make the bikes at a fraction of the price they are sold for. They have to make some profit from it or its not worth doing. also the bikes shops have to make some money out of it to stay open. nobody does something for nothing. if you want to ride faster with less effort, spend the extra money and get a better bike
infotainment and some seldom mentioned facts, hearable infos beside any other work - high informative and enough time to think about the own bicycle history and rethink already made decisions - all that while listening. Like it. :)
Thank you.
Hi Martin, I miss these great cycling videos. I hope you're well, happy and healthy.
Yes, well, thank you. Still riding, don't own a car, so bikes for transportation, commuting and work hauling equipment. But also for off road and on road exploring my wilderness. After my video on "Riding 100 miles for the First Time", there hasn't been much more to say.
The same is true about motorcycle and car tires. What are you going to do, buy cheap tires? It's only $50 for the part of your bike most likely to make a difference in speed and safety.
Sorry but the suggestion that cheaper groupsets work more reliably than Dura Ace and no mechanic can set up Dura Ace is baseless. Perhaps you've anecdotal experience, but that's it.
I think there is a middle ground between all that you need for the lowest price and the insane prices that the high end bikes. I am not a great cyclist; however, I have a great road bike and a great mountain bike. I appreciate the quality and the technology that went into my bikes. Yes, I could have a bought a great bike for a lot less. I can afford my bikes, and I feel I get my money's worth. Yes there are cheaper bikes but I enjoy my purchases. I am not trying to disparage what you are doing or saying. I applaud what you are doing. If you can inspire people to get out there and get riding you are doing a good thing. Gerry in Calgary.
Thank you, yes, you got one of my points; we don't need more than a strong bike for fitness. But I think you missed another one. These road racing bikes are designed for extremely strong and genetically gifted cyclists who with the skill of pedal strokes and handling can push a bike to the limit in a sprint. The remainder of the expense is on aerodynamics and shifting precision. IF you are one of these high level athlete then you can appreciate the technology, and should have it at any price...that is the nature of racing. BUT this is a recreational video and unless you are one of those few powerful racers, you will never really appreciate the technology. Everyone notices the light weight, it "feels" great...but as the video states for recreational riding the weight does not affect anything much (when under 21 pounds) . After half a million miles of racing and riding, I appreciate riding, being fit, being outdoors and having pure transportation with access to wilderness. The bike just has to match my; dimensions, skill, strength, body weight, and intension of riding. ( I don't think you meant middle ground to be a $7000.00 bike ) :)
My experience of high end drivetrain parts is that they save a few grams but don't work any better and wear out faster. Top of the line rim brakes are a marginal improvement, but at the end of the day they are still rim brakes. That said, I would love to have electronic power shift and do away with stretching, sticking cables for good. A power meter would help me greatly too, i always burn myself out on adverse gradients and winds no matter how hard i try and maintain a constant level of effort.
nemthefearless We all have our genetic limits, unfortunately. After about 5 years of intelligent training you will be reaching your limit. After that the only way to go faster is to improve your pedal stroke and cadence, then find the most aerodynamic position your body will accept. Once you have exhausted skill and training methods of improving the bike is the only thing left, but it is a small improvement for a lot of money.
nemthefearless get a cadence monitor that helps more trust and get a heart beat monitor to and get a nice steady rhythm going where you will go fast and still save energy your going to have to experiment alot with gears just saying it took me 1 year to find the perfect gear ratio and the cadence also being aero helps and being bike smart watch videos on GCN they help alot
Umm, why spend so much time and effort exposing how luxury items are priced like... luxury items? Does it ride 15x better than the cheap bike? No more or less so than how a Ferrari drives 15x better than an Acura. In any case, just to compare apples to apples, that $11.5k Trek's frame is made in Wisconsin, the Dura Ace Di2 in Japan, the Aeolus CF rims in the US, the hubs in Switzerland. The tires are probably made in Thailand, but for the same $ you can get some made in France or Italy or Germany. First world jobs vs a race to the bottom in terms of worker welfare.
I spent the time so you would know the truth of weight when riding recreational. And the actual cost of riding today. I tested components and found strong parts for the least amount of money. So now you have a base line of price representing a strong dependable bike, spend all you want above this, but don't go below.
funnzie Summarized that way, it makes total sense -- thanks. Crappy bikes are no fun, but it doesn't take a fortune to get a very good result. For me, first comes fit (size/stoutness) and adjustments (tuning/truing/lubing/psi/etc), then *maybe* gizmos -- all the exotic materials in the world won't fix bad fit or sloppy maintenance. I would *never* blow the big bucks without first getting a professional fitting to get the most out of what I already have.
Come to think of it, next time around I'd skip the electronic everything unless the price comes *way* down. I've had very good luck with it, but my mechanical bike is no less enjoyable, and the extra cost could have bought me a decade of great tubular tires and some physical therapy to avoid injury, or a cycling vacation somewhere.
The overall point he is making is true. The recreational cyclist doesn't need to spend 4K on a bike when they can get an 800 dollar bike and be just as happy and just as fast. Recreational being the optimal word.
When I was younger and more gullible. I was talked into a brand new Specialized Allez sport tripple. 6 months later I bought a $40 used trek hybrid off of craigslist, so I could pull my son around in his trailer. That Trek was so much more enjoyable to to ride, and worked so much better. I sold my Allez within a month of buying my used Trek.
Yes, you now know why in recreational riding the high dollar racing bikes don't make any difference, because they are designed for racing. And even a low cost road bike as you mentioned does not work well for you because of your intension of riding.
For the most part, you get what you pay for in life. Purchase an inexpensive item and it will likely perform at an inferior level compared to a much more expensive item. I purchased a 2010 Trek 4.5 Madone for $2,000 in 2010 and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. I am a recreational cyclist (cycle ~4,000 miles/year) but I wanted something that gave a decent performance without excessive expense. Weight makes a huge difference in performance and especially the wheelset. Just today I forgot to put my water bottle on my bike when I went out for a ride and the less weight on my bike really showed. My bike was flying and I didn't realize why until a few miles in. If you plan on riding the bike for many years I think the cost is worth it. It is all about your priorities and what you are willing to sacrifice for performance. Thanks for an informative video.
This video illustrate how you don't get what you pay for. For a beginner cyclist a road racing bike will be slower, difficult and dangerous to handle and probably will not fit them if they are out of shape. When you "faster" it is just 1mph faster on average over a simple aluminum road bike. The speed you "feel" does not translate into speed on the road to any great extent. No racer is going from an aluminum road bike to a carbon, relieving 4 to 5 pounds and taking 5 minutes off their 25 mile time trial. In the mountains or hills they may be taking 1 minute off a time trial with a low weight high performance carbon racing bike. Racing road bike technology is targeted at racing, recreational riding cannot take advantage of the technology.
I don’t know where you are getting your
statistics from but I disagree with your numbers. There is a huge difference
between my $2,000 all Carbon Trek bike and a $500 lower end aluminum bike. I
have never ridden a high end $10k+ bike so can’t comment on the performance
difference. I also agree a beginner cyclist should not be riding a performance
bike, as like you said, it is dangerous. When I first got clipless pedals I had
three falls within a year from not being able to disengage my shoe from the
pedals. Have you ever cycled on a higher end bike? If you have, you would not
be dismissing them as a waste of money. I have limits on what I will fork over
for a new bike and will not go much higher than $2k as I am only a recreational
cyclist.
I am getting my statistics for 500,000 miles of road and trail. As the video illustrates there is very little difference between the Motobecane Grand Record (used as an example) and a high end carbon racing bike....in recreational use. Recreation use is the key phrase you are missing. All the technology and cost you are paying for in a carbon road racing bike is targeted at racing, i.e. Sprinting, drafting, jumps, high intensity climbing, 25mph plus speeds...FYI - my sponsored racing included custom made steel frames to my specifications equipped with Campagnolo Super Record, and the best wheels in the world built by a custom wheel builder.
Maybe Wiggo should start using $300 bikes...!
ultegra and dura ace are primo components.Way better than their lower priced grupos,tho good.I agree about frame material tho.If you dont have the legs and lungs,No amount of money will buy a bike that will get you up hill faster
not entirely true. less weight = better climbing, stiffer frame = better transfer = better climbing. so actually it will, and quite a bit so. now i dont have a super high end bike but i have a carbon frame with a decent ($400) wheelset, and my dad (who is about on the same level) has a steel frame with a much nicer wheelset, and my bike will outclimb his any day and its not close at all. we can trade bikes (same body dimensions = 54cm frame/pedals/seat position) and he can climb away from me on the carbon bike. For the average road cyclist that wants a quality bike that will last and perform, get an Aluminum Road bike with Shimano 105 50/34, and get a good road shoe, and a quality saddle.
Interesting.I never knew that.I did, but my buds,cat 3 and 2, never had a problem kicking butt with their old steel SLX Ciocc.Honestly I never had the pleasure of riding a Carbon bike but had no problem dropping people on the hills when I put on my sew ups. I do dig alu bikes tho..I have an old Vitus 997 that has become whippy but can still climb great!
Alu tends to beat you up the most. its stiffer than steel but doesnt absorb shock like carbon. just something to consider if you ride rough roads and/or long distances. the transfer is really good though.
My Vitus is way comfortable. Alot more so than my old Steel Colnago Master Piu. I do like carbon stuff tho,not so much the carbon stems and bars.Wish I could find an old Vitus carbon 9.Those were beautiful bikes!I ride a 49cc or a 51cc,stiffness has never been an issue for my frame size!Revenge of the short guys!
ray brad
Trek 2300 composite,may also be an option.
I do buy a standard bike and let it be refitted to my wants by a bikemechanic providing the brands i use. He then recalculates the bikecost. So Buying a standard bike and replace parts i don't want isn't adding up to the total cost of the bike.
I also have to mention that i know my mechanic really well, so this might not be the case if you buy your first bike.
I do like your point of view, a normal biker doesn't need a high end bike. SO TRUE
+Sander Moens Yes, parts swapping on a new bike is dependent on your dealer and or manufacturer of the bike. Factory direct purchasing means you pay for all the changes you need to make.
Thanks for this helpful TH-cam lesson in bike buying. You've made a lot of sensible points that should help most recreational riders make more informed purchases. I would like to add a few points of my own to maybe fill out the picture a bit.
1. Since you stated that steel bikes are the only bikes that can be realigned should there be a crash, I think it might have made more sense for you to have chosen the Motobecane Gran Premio (30 speed/$799) or the Motobecane Gran Premio Elite (22 speed/$899), both of which are Reyolds 520 steel frame bikes (with carbon fiber forks) as the alternative to the expensive high end carbon fiber bike.
2. Sometimes a mile and a half difference for a solid but not elite club rider makes the difference between being able to ride with a "B" group vs a "C" group without the fear of getting dropped. So, for example, someone who is at the top of a "C" level group could ride at the back or the middle of the "B" level group with a bike that weighs 5 or more pounds less. Obviously, the key is the engine, and losing body fat/weight will, in the long run, be more effective than trimming 5 pounds from a bike's weight, but still...1.5 mph is not insignificant, even for recreational club riders, depending on the goal(s) of that rider. By the same token, there are plenty of carbon fiber bikes out there that "only" cost $2,000.00 compared to around $900 for the Motobecane double crank Gran Premio Elite.
(I have 2 steel frame bikes, 1 aluminum bike, and 1 carbon fiber bike. I happen to prefer steel frame bikes myself, but I do see some benefits to the aluminum and carbon fiber bikes that I own. The aluminum bike is more of an "endurance"/comfort bike, while the carbon fiber bike with pure race geometry is lighter, more finicky in its handling, and a little better on hills. But for balance, the steel frame Italian bikes are the most comfortable, the most stable, yet magically the most nimble without being twitchy. The key, IMO, is FIT. I've had all 4 bikes professionally fitted, and they're each a little different, depending on frame geometry and especially stem height and length. The options for quill stems for the 1" threaded steering tube on the steel bikes provide the most flexibility, and those bikes tend to fit me "better", although the geometry on the aluminum endurance bike fits pretty well also. And the carbon fiber bike, after I swapped out the 100mm stem for an 80mm stem isn't bad -- it depends on how limber I'm feeling on any given day. And at age 60, that's generally a real crap shoot.)
***** The only thing I would add is when buying your first bike I suggest the 21 pound bike will allow you to get fit,, and ride with those who are the same fitness. Then after training and good lifestyle of 5 years you will be reaching your genetic limitations. If after reaching your genetic strength limits you want to climb faster or ride in pelotons, then consider purchasing the lightest carbon bike you can afford to ride with other riders using carbon bikes. After 5 years you may not need the extra 1mph (carbon bike) to keep up with same fitness riders on carbon bikes. Remember to work at an aerodynamic riding position, and perfect pedal strokes as your best speed advantage.
2,500 snobs and kids didn't agree with wise men.
+AzulShiva This video is for recreational riders confused about how much you need to spend to get a good road bike. The video explains this and much more, dispelling myths of speed. The engine of the bike provides 95% of the speed, the bike can only provide an additional 5% over the minimum bike recommended. This video has saved many people a lot of money and opened up their opportunity for fitness. Go ahead and spend an extra $2000.00 on a bike and observe how much speed you gain....but then it's too late, you've spent the money already.
+AzulShiva You didn't watch the video! WRONG - WRONG -WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I went through great lengths to give you a good strong bike example. NOT THE CHEAPEST BIKE IN THE SHOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (to my viewers) this is another commenter who did not watch the video, be very aware of this.
Miss-information like this from uninformed sources is why bicycle shops in our country are struggling to sell bikes. bicycle shops not only will provide a better quality product that IS worth the money, They will also provide a solid assembly, and any future support needed for the product. Judging by what you are riding, You are clearly making your decisions based on your own stuborn thoughts. No new cyclist needs, or should follow any of this information, they should go to their local bicycle shops and speak with people who love riding and can guide them toward the bike that will suite their riding. Bicycle shop employees for the most-part love to ride, and have plenty of experience with the bikes to be able to help.
1) Bike shops are struggling, but not because of videos like this.
2) Any bike over $800 is of very little benefit for the average bike rider. And arguably $400.
3) The average bike riders are buying sub $500 bikes anyway, except for a few that like racy decals.
4) Bike shops are being hit by the economy and the internet.
5) The information in this video is sound for the 98% of the public.
thanks dude this has helped what type of frame and budget to spent, instead of going for the high end bike and spend loads aswell for accessories. Low to Mid range bikes can give the extra fun you need
Yes! this is recreational riding...fun....fitness....transportation....tranquility....wilderness escape....and list goes on.....don't need a road racing bike for this.
One of the best road racers in northern Virginia summed it up best in the 'sixties: it's 90 percent rider and 10 percent equipment. The engine is the most important thing to concentrate on.
Thanks for posting this.
Jefferson Martin The 10 / 90 is racing. In recreational riding it is more like 5 / 95
funnzie Very true. It is a shame that here in Philadelphia many enthusiast-level, recreational riders are the target of what I consider predatory sales methods espousing high end bikes to folks who won't clock 200 miles a year.
Fact remains that the basic diamond frame bicycle is pretty the same as it was in the early 20th century, regardless of how many useless distractions called 'engineering' are applied.
I would like to know how he gets 10,000's of miles out of a drive train? In my 40+ years in the bike industry I have never seen a chain and cassette last 10K. What's the secret?
Agreed,most people don't NEED a high bucks bike to get enjoyment out of cycling. However, many people WANT an nicer bike to enhance THEIR cycling experience.
All of the bikes featured are "mail order" bikes meaning you're on your own for proper assembly and service. Or, pay your local LBS to get it going and keep it going eroding your savings. I don't quite get the concept of buying a cheap bike then upgrading it to suit your needs. You could go to your LBS and purchase an off the shelf bike and be ahead of the game financially and get the shipping, proper fitting, assembly, service and warranty as part of the deal.