I'm a software developer. I have tens of thousands of lines of codes stored on my computers, some of the code being decades old. A flipped bit in any of those text files would likely manifest as a syntax error when I compiled the source code. In all those years and all those lines of code I have not once experiences such a syntax error from a flipped bit. I think the problem is overblown for the typical user. For a corporation that keeps a giant multi-terabyte database in memory for months on end maybe it could be an issue.
It's mostly expensive if you buy the Synology branded stuff. It's worse than the Apple tax (and I'm an Apple user). There is memory from Crucial and Kingston that is compatible, but a Synology NAS may complain at startup in the Kingston case (I have not heard or experienced this for Crucial). With that said, do it at your own risk, but 32GB of DDR4 ECC Crucial memory is about $170 as opposed to the exorbitant amounts that Synology is charging. With that said, I'd be very interested in hearing about any horror stories regarding non-branded memory where the manufactures profess compatibility (both Kingston and Crucial do). I have so far not heard any.
Any system with long uptimes should be using ECC, almost without regard for the system size (An exception at the microcontroller level, but they use a different kind of memory cell anyway). The longer the uptime the more chance for errors to propagate through the calculations. All modern 64bit machines are large machines, 1GB of memory is substantial in regard to bit flip error rates. A corrupted pixel in a video is inconsequential but if the corrupted bit is within a CPU instruction, a starting constant in a long calculation, or part of some compressed data then the effect can have a chain reaction. eg. JPG images are very sensitive, due to the high level of compression one bit flip can destroy the color over half or more of the photograph. (While an uncompressed bitmap would only slightly scew one pixel, at the cost of 10 times the data so maybe a few scewed pixels.) Yes the 10% cost may appear huge at exascale but consider the impact of error uncertainty when a single computation set uses weeks of machine time and $100k just in electricity cost.
Thanks for your video. Please can you indicate what memory can be put in the DS1821+. Can you make a recommendation of 32G RAM. In the DS1821+ it is possible to put 64G unofficial. You can indicate specific references. Thank you in advance
Ryzen 9 7950X supports ECC RAM. Also, some consumer motherboards, like the ASRock X670E Taichi mention the support for ECC & non-ECC DIMMs. Will a combo like that work with ECC RAM 100%?
Pretty much all Asrock AM4 mobo's support ECC with AMD, but you have to check the processor. Generally, AM4 processors with integrated graphics do *not* support ECC unless it's the Pro version (like 4000 series / Cezanne). Also, the Asrock website is excellent for showing their mobo specs, and each mobo page has a RAM support list that includes which ones are ECC compatible.
I heard a story - not sure if this is true - that some Super Mario speedrunner got a glitch from cosmic ray which made the player character basically invulnerable so he got the record, not sure if true again so take with a grain of salt.
Ok question - lets say I use non-ECC and corrupt a file like a photo when writing it to my NAS. What stops me from just seeing the photo is corrupted and writing it again? Are there worse scenarios to worry about? People just say if its "mission critical" I should buy ECC without any real explanation.
*you* will only know the file is corrupt if it becomes illegible, or visibly corrupted (half the image becomes a mess for instance). however, you can also have situations where it isn't immediately apparent the data is corrupted, like a movie where the audio cuts out for 4 min at the 1 hour mark, or a text document with a typo that wasn't there before. however, without ecc, *your system* will have no idea if it's corrupt. so most likely, you will save the file, delete it from your sd card, or pc, or whatever else - and then go about your life. one day you'll try to open the file, and voila - it's corrupted. also, if you're using something like truenas, which employs zfs - a flipped bit can corrupt the in-memory file system data structures, and cause you to lose your entire pool (all the data on the disks)
@Kavi Gosai That's oddly specific scenario. One of the openzfs devs said himself that there is nothing in zfs that requires ecc more than any other filesystem on the market.
ECC is NOT needed. Your METAL case is a Faraday cage (look it up), and all modern OSes can detect memory corruption, which I have never seen, plus most are now also using compression, which can detect errors as well. Now, bad memory can also happen in ECC memory, so, what are you buying? ECC memory also is on the lower speed. Memory speed is not in Megahertz, it is in MegaTRANSFERS!!
Metal case being faraday cage have no relation to memory errors, look up "Alpha particles", you're also being wrong about OS ability to detect bit errors. IMHO, you need to educate yourself properly on those topics.
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I'm a software developer. I have tens of thousands of lines of codes stored on my computers, some of the code being decades old. A flipped bit in any of those text files would likely manifest as a syntax error when I compiled the source code. In all those years and all those lines of code I have not once experiences such a syntax error from a flipped bit. I think the problem is overblown for the typical user. For a corporation that keeps a giant multi-terabyte database in memory for months on end maybe it could be an issue.
It's mostly expensive if you buy the Synology branded stuff. It's worse than the Apple tax (and I'm an Apple user). There is memory from Crucial and Kingston that is compatible, but a Synology NAS may complain at startup in the Kingston case (I have not heard or experienced this for Crucial). With that said, do it at your own risk, but 32GB of DDR4 ECC Crucial memory is about $170 as opposed to the exorbitant amounts that Synology is charging.
With that said, I'd be very interested in hearing about any horror stories regarding non-branded memory where the manufactures profess compatibility (both Kingston and Crucial do). I have so far not heard any.
Thank you for in-detail info. looking forward to your next videos.
Any system with long uptimes should be using ECC, almost without regard for the system size (An exception at the microcontroller level, but they use a different kind of memory cell anyway). The longer the uptime the more chance for errors to propagate through the calculations. All modern 64bit machines are large machines, 1GB of memory is substantial in regard to bit flip error rates. A corrupted pixel in a video is inconsequential but if the corrupted bit is within a CPU instruction, a starting constant in a long calculation, or part of some compressed data then the effect can have a chain reaction.
eg. JPG images are very sensitive, due to the high level of compression one bit flip can destroy the color over half or more of the photograph. (While an uncompressed bitmap would only slightly scew one pixel, at the cost of 10 times the data so maybe a few scewed pixels.)
Yes the 10% cost may appear huge at exascale but consider the impact of error uncertainty when a single computation set uses weeks of machine time and $100k just in electricity cost.
Thank you for educating me and my little pea brain
Having trouble finding ECC ram for DS1821+. Recommendation needed for dual channel ram to make up 32G please. No message.
Thanks for your video. Please can you indicate what memory can be put in the DS1821+. Can you make a recommendation of 32G RAM. In the DS1821+ it is possible to put 64G unofficial. You can indicate specific references. Thank you in advance
Ryzen 9 7950X supports ECC RAM.
Also, some consumer motherboards, like the ASRock X670E Taichi mention the support for ECC & non-ECC DIMMs.
Will a combo like that work with ECC RAM 100%?
Pretty much all Asrock AM4 mobo's support ECC with AMD, but you have to check the processor. Generally, AM4 processors with integrated graphics do *not* support ECC unless it's the Pro version (like 4000 series / Cezanne).
Also, the Asrock website is excellent for showing their mobo specs, and each mobo page has a RAM support list that includes which ones are ECC compatible.
3:30 also literal cosmic rays. It’s nuts.
I heard a story - not sure if this is true - that some Super Mario speedrunner got a glitch from cosmic ray which made the player character basically invulnerable so he got the record, not sure if true again so take with a grain of salt.
The Asustor AS6704T NAS that I use has the Intel N5105 which doesn't support ECC.
Ok question - lets say I use non-ECC and corrupt a file like a photo when writing it to my NAS.
What stops me from just seeing the photo is corrupted and writing it again?
Are there worse scenarios to worry about?
People just say if its "mission critical" I should buy ECC without any real explanation.
*you* will only know the file is corrupt if it becomes illegible, or visibly corrupted (half the image becomes a mess for instance). however, you can also have situations where it isn't immediately apparent the data is corrupted, like a movie where the audio cuts out for 4 min at the 1 hour mark, or a text document with a typo that wasn't there before. however, without ecc, *your system* will have no idea if it's corrupt. so most likely, you will save the file, delete it from your sd card, or pc, or whatever else - and then go about your life. one day you'll try to open the file, and voila - it's corrupted. also, if you're using something like truenas, which employs zfs - a flipped bit can corrupt the in-memory file system data structures, and cause you to lose your entire pool (all the data on the disks)
@Kavi Gosai That's oddly specific scenario. One of the openzfs devs said himself that there is nothing in zfs that requires ecc more than any other filesystem on the market.
ECC is not an acronym, but an initialism. If it were an acronym, we would be pronouncing it as 'eck' , not 'eee cee cee' 😀
I'm so angry about how grammatically correct this comment is that I think I'm going to need to have a bit of a sit down!
@@nascompares Big fan of your channel - keep up the good work!
Still absolutely fuming that you out grammared (grammarred?) me...
Asrock AM4 mobos ftw.
Can I install ecc 2666mhtz 8gb ram on my ds920+?
"it has no advantages for home users"
Enter AI personal assistants with home nas backup. 🤔
Will ECC memory work with the 1819+? I.e. does the mobo and CPU support it?
If the EU can legally force Apple to switch to USB-C. Why can’t we force manufacturers to make ecc a legal standard?
Because ecc is unneeded in a computer
ECC is NOT needed. Your METAL case is a Faraday cage (look it up), and all modern OSes can detect memory corruption, which I have never seen, plus most are now also using compression, which can detect errors as well.
Now, bad memory can also happen in ECC memory, so, what are you buying?
ECC memory also is on the lower speed.
Memory speed is not in Megahertz, it is in MegaTRANSFERS!!
Metal case being faraday cage have no relation to memory errors, look up "Alpha particles", you're also being wrong about OS ability to detect bit errors. IMHO, you need to educate yourself properly on those topics.
@@jankkhvej I think the guy is beyond being educated on such things. That or he is trolling.
Delete your comment Jesus christ..