Edit: This video aged like room-temperature milk. So my brain is smooth and I forgot to mention concepts like an additional world level and / or difficult bounties for the spectacle of the challenge and some or no additional reward. Might incentivize more co-op stuff. Just wanted to throw that out there.
I'm down for addtional world level, being able to experience abyss level difficulty in the overworld as someone who has a good collection of characters and great artifacts after grinding so much for so many years now.
there is a difference between more and more difficult endgame content and.. just more endgame content. i wouldnt mind if we had endgame content that in regards to its difficulty is somewhere situated between abyss floor 11 and 12. I just want an opportunity to fight stuff without constantly fighting the same enemies for 15 days i want quantity and variety, thats it really
Yeah, I agree with that. Maybe it wouldn't feel so bad if the phases weren't the same, but I guess they keep them that way so you can try the different units you pulled on the same enemies as the previous phase. I'm so tired of things that dig.
Finally someone thinking, thank you! This game has potential for so much more, as we could see during Divine Ingenuity event. Hoyo simply wastes 90% of potential of this game. I was thinking the same regarding difficulty. To fit most players something between 11 and 12 floor would be great, or - something like most easy versions of floor 12. I myself not rarely have enough of struggle at floor 12, I would appreciate a bit easier but FUN content a lot.
@@MyVanir I always thought that Elysian Realm would be perfect for Genshin. Especially since in Elysian Realm there are certain buffs that change character's (valkyrie's) abilities almost entirely.
tbh i think the reason most harder events didnt get received well was because they came out too early in the game where were not alot of stuff was figured out and power levels in characters still varied as well as not everyone having characters built up.
@@Kittysune12Defeating pre-nerf Childe was one of the most memorable experiences in the game. Especially since he was very strategic - I had to touch walls to remove mark that will otherwise insta-kill me. Childe now? I forgot how his second phase looks like because he dies before leaving the bubble, that's how weak he feels.
@@Kittysune12I was thinking the same. And I have reason to believe that the game outright coddles you at this point. I remember going through Raiden's Story 2 with my omega scuffed Raiden and the game just _would not let me die._ So... okay, I straight up cannot fail these fights. Now what?
A good endgame content might be the add things that could encourage exploration. Like maybe there are permanent shops that you can trrade region exclusives and boss mats for to get primos or maybe have endgame content that encourages co op. The labyrinths are the only.viable end game content i see but ill be honest i think having more skill based minigames would work for each region.
I think one of their bigger concerns that they don't want to mention directly is giving out more currency than they need to. I love the idea of more co-op content, though! More skill-based minigames would also be great. There are quite a few of them that appeared throughout events that I was hoping would be added permanently at some point, but they never came Q ~ Q
I wish there was a shop to trade in boss drops. Like you know how you're hoping for a triple to get exactly 46 drops, but you get a double so you have 45. That means one more fight will leave you with one or two extra.
how to make current abyss more user friendly 1. let us preview our characters, for those that frequently change artifacts onto other characters due to not having dedicated artifacts for those characters yet it can be a hassle of choosing your character then seeing they do no damage exiting the abyss equipping artifacts and weapons then reentering the abyss. 2. genshin has some pretty good combat music tracks so why not let us change the music or have a rotation of songs that we like. hearing the same combat music for three years when enkanomiya has such a banger, this grievance is annoying especially considering the teapot has this feature already with the collectable music disks. 3. might as well through some friendship xp for completing a floor for the first time. doing a "difficult" combat adventure seems like it would strengthen bonds.
Those sound like great ideas. 1: I couldn't tell you how many times I've had to back out because I forgot to swap artifact sets around. 2: I was thinking about music earlier when I was scripting this, but it didn't match the topic of the video. I was kind of playing with the idea of combat music from the region where most of the enemies are from or something to that effect. Your idea sounds better, though xd 3: Friendship experience is a real slog, I wouldn't mind a little bonus here or there.
Another key thing I'd like to see in the Abyss to make it more friendly: let us trial any chamber we've unlocked access to. Currently, say you are having trouble with 12-2, so you are experimenting with teams. Well, each time you swap teams, you have to do 12-1 again first. This is a large part of what makes the Wenut, something that requires a bit different team make-up than people usually run, such a huge pain. But if you could just trial 12-2 to test the teams, and then do it for real starting at 12-1, you'd be set. Although given that you don't need to 3 star all three chambers in a single run, but instead all that matter is that you 3 star a chamber on any given run, they could also just scrap the entire "start at X-1" thing entirely, though that would kind of trash the difference between a floor and a chamber.
"No rewards" is a bad idea, I think. "Rewards endgame players value" may be the best thing they may do. KQM recently put out a guide on resinless grinding, a way to get like +16 worth of artifact xp and 150k mora daily by collecting respawning items and killing elite enemies. If you don't find it fun to relax to a good podcast while doing some longform grinding this thing is quite a chore. If they put some kind of a rougelike or something like that into the game that gives mora and artifact xp and it would take less time than resinless routes it would be quite a worthwhile endgame content imo.
@@anteprs7908 are you sure you answered the right comment? I did not argue for difficulty at all, my point was centered around developers not needing to make rewards big or contain primogems. They just need to contain rewards that players who are in late stages of clearing content would value, and that, in my eyes, would make that endgame content. If that mode would be varied, for example procedurally generated, I would be doubly happy. Also, it is strange of you to advice stopping playing the game to the person who talks about doing multi-hour grind runs on daily basis, which would imply that this person considers the game to be their comfort zone. Overall, I just do not understand the point you are trying to make, since it doesn't mesh well the point of my original message, unless you try trolling.
@@e100pavelwrong click was the comment bellow you my net lagged hahaha but as for your comment i rather anybody who ask for difficult endgame leave and go ww since they are plague on this game .
@@anteprs7908 well, from what I've seen the combat there is not as expressive as in genshin. Casual or not, genshin's combat system is a work of art, and people who like pushing it to the limit ask for more canvas to do so. Variety can be a nice thing for everyone, too, as long as you aren't forced into it. I 100%ed every region in 4 months since starting playing, yet I know people who did not 100% Mondstadt in 3 years. One day they may do it, because it', the only content left, and I may finish fishing achievement, since it's the only content I have left, and you may find yourself excited that exists as a reason for you to return to the game. You never know
For a rogue like, they had labyrith warriors, an event way back with Childe and Xinyan in Inazuma and that event lives in my heart as the best one to date. I really wish they'd make it permanent, since it plays quite a bit like Elysian Realm for HI3rd players and Simulated Universe for HSR players, almost as a mash-up of the two.
The best take so far on the drama, coming from a long time gamer and someone who worked on the business side of game publishing. What most people don’t realize is that the vocal minority is extremely misrepresentative of a game’s playerbase, and this is doubly so when it comes to F2P games. Less than 1% of HSR players complete MoC. Single digit percentages of MMO players engage in end game content, even though they’re invested subscribers. Building content for a tiny fraction of a F2P playerbase has diminishing returns, and as you have stated, can also alienate far more players than it can appease. Said appeasement would also be ephemeral, cf. all the snapshottable Steam thumbs down reviews of games where the person has already invested five hundred hours into the game. Balancing endgame is difficult when you have a nearly four year old game where the largest segment of players are new. What is difficult for someone a year into the game is too easy for someone with a three year old account. And the account of someone who has played for two years free to play is very different than a dolphin who has dropped $1000 in his first twelve months. There is no scenario where you can appease the majority of players from a balance perspective when it comes to end game - and remember that even still, only a single digit percentage at best of the millions of players even clear the current end game, which most YT commentators say is “too easy.” The solution you suggested of one time rewards is exactly the approach MHY did with HSR, with variant versions of SU like Gold & Gears. Relatively easy development and one time rewards that consume a large amount of time while offering a much higher difficulty level than existing content. The real problem with Genshin is not that the game lacks content, but that it constantly adds and then removes content. Instead of introducing permanent game modes, it adds limited one time events. From a dev perspective it’s horribly inefficient. From a psychological perspective, it’s clear MHY wants you to engage in the game loop habitually. This is why stamina is capped at under 24 hours. This is why domains are locked per day. This is why if you miss a story event, you are SOL… Content creators may bitch and scream, but they’re a minority perspective yelling to a minority audience. Genshin still sits at the top of the industry, making money hand over fist and setting revenue records even during a “boycott.” Any changes coming to Genshin will be ones that appeal to the largest part of the playerbase. This is why we have a new catchup banner system for instance, allowing new players to get old characters they missed. This also will accelerate the banner calendar, allowing everyone to get the characters they want sooner. The central design pillar of Genshin after all is character collection. Does this suck for people who want harder content? Yes, but it also sucks for people who want, say, Soulslike combat, or rhythm game mechanics… Genshin at its core is meant to be engaged horizontally over time, not vertically. This is why the elemental reaction system is the core mechanic of its combat system, which involves building a broad roster. This is a gotta catch em all game since day one, as are 99% of all gacha games. This isn’t an MMO or a Soulslike.
I agree! Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts! It seems like a pretty complicated thing to me, despite how simple some people make it out to sound, but I spent a few days thinking on the topic and I didn't even get to cover everything I wanted to (aimed to keep the video on the short-ish side). Again, thanks for sharing, always nice to hear the thoughts of someone who has more experience than me in these applications.
I think adding a new game mode similar to the simulated universe from HSR that you spend resin and get an artifact main stat selector casual players will play it because they want to see to see their characters deal more damage + they get the selector which makes gearing way easier if you're not looking for the godliest artifacts. And hardcore players will like it because it's a new thing to grind + it solves the mundane artifact farming sessions (+ I might finally get a 50 cv artifact been playing since launch and still haven't got one yet)
The problem with rewards forcing people to do new content can be solved by offering rewards that matters only for that content, like they do for the TCG. It's not ideal for people who want to have fun and *rewarding* content, but if this is a problem, at least there is a workaround for that. Also given that all other primogems-rewarding activity are made mandatory for all players, it doesn't seem to be an issue for MiHoyo (like you cannot skip story or exploration, serenitea pot require significant time investment before you can ignore it). But I do agree that probably numbers of combat-focused players are just not high enough to warrant any development of interesting new content, which is kinda sad
Rewards exclusive to that content also works! I'm just not sure how you'd apply that to combat, though. Maybe through stat buffs that only apply to that content, or something ?
@@ALittleSIMPlehonkai impact 3rd has a similar thing in elysian realm, you needed it's specific currency for upgrades and to unlock other characters you have, didn't play in while, I might be a bit off it also had gacha currency rewards anyways but getting most was easy, and highest difficulty(with a pretty big jump in difficulty) is pretty much just to flex
Something to note is that in 3.7, when floor 12 of the abyss was arguably the hardest is has ever been people generally didn't like it. And it wasn't because the enemies were unfair or something they were pretty much doable, the problem was that like you said yourself the majority of the players are not here for hardcore combat, as cool as that might be. Plus, every time, hoyo makes a hard enemy, like the sumeru beasts or the geo and cry lectors, they are met with an overall negative reception. So, for as cool it would be for genshin to add more endgame, it somewhat makes sense why they are not. But hey, Natlan, being the nation of war, might add another permanent combat mode or another similar thing along those lines.
For real, Ive been flamed many times for not having a life apparently when voicing out the lack of more endgame content. I will say tho it not that I want harder content per se, but I just want MORE end game content. Id prolly pipe down if i had a second abyss with a twist (I.e. Labrynth warriors was a god send), not necessarily die hard cant clear content, but at least its more to do. But I digress, more end game content means more free primos, they aint doing that for sure.
this might be 100% accurate, maybe its the player fault after all. and + the CC at that time must be overreact it, gaslighting the player to hate 3.7 abyss. after 3.7, 3.8 - 4.5 is just easier. u damm right. also yea more endgame content on natlan, that is make sense.
Honestly, 3.7 was a bad abyss on one half. The half with the Sumeru Beasts were really good imo. But putting Cryo and Hydro Heralds in one floor, then the Lector Boss on the other? Dogwater. It restricted the hell out of testing new comps in abyss, forced you to run Hydro, Pyro, Electro/Dendro in one team etc. Restricting your teams to a select few units on one half feels absolutely horrible to play. It is restrictive, not hard.
No, it makes absolutely no sense they are not adding more end-game, cause why even thinking it has to be very hard?... We need diverse content in the first place. Only then we can talk about difficulty. This game barely scratches it's own potential, we could get so much more diverse gameplay it's crazy. People were exploring it themselves with Divine Ingenuity event. Hoyo could at least add this as permanent and let us make content ourselves! No money for Hoyo as long as they waste huge potential of this game!
Let's be real here, Hoyo, at least the team that works on Genshin, don't know how to program a balanced combat mode. People are saying that Abyss is hard because enemies hit hard or too tanky. In some ways it is. But it's actual difficulty comes from rng behavior of those enemies. Basically they behave unpredictable, which can be a problem for most of players who can't pay attention to such minor details. Nor do they have patience to do that. If the player have characters that are hyper invested, have cons and options of weapons, that player probably won't feel any problems with rng, but players who stuck in the middle between that hyper investment and f2p options, usually tend to struggle in abyss due to various rng problems that they mistake for "strong" enemies. I'll try to explain what i mean here - let's take a current 4.4 12-2 for example. On the first half we have two waves of elete eremites, on the second half - Wenut that loves to stall time. On a side, i do a challenge where i play only catalysts users, and my account technically f2p for the most part (i bought welkin 3-5 times and 1 time bp), and i managed to clear this abyss with 36*. Though my major problem came from 12-2. As a person who limited myself to a certain characters i had to strategize a lot on how to approach that particular room. And what i noticed the most, and what was annoying the most - is enemies behavior. Not their tankiness, not the dmg they were doing, but simply their behavior. Let's talk about eremites first. The problem here was (a) grouping them together and (b) place my characters that way so the crocodile won't sprint towards me and bird won't spawn behind me. Basically i needed to move in the tight timing window, not to catch any attacks and face enemies at the right spot so i could finally cast a shield (c4 Yanfei) and start attacking with Neuv. Same goes for snake and scorpion later. If at least one of those started behaving somewhat different from what i wanted (like scorpion immediately going under the ground, or crocodile dashing) - it was an instant restart. Also, because my Neuvellette is c0 - the huge portion of my frustration came from constant interruption, which can be solved either with a good shielder (apparently 30k Yanfei is not enough) or his c1 (which is already not a free to play friendly option). As for the Wenut, i don't why, but this guy is more predictable, he has fixated pattern of behavior except (!) the moment he starts his rotation. Like there's two ways: he either cruising from one side to another, or jumps out of the ground on the place you stand. The rest of his movements is the same. And this difference can be crucial to your winning, because it's much easier to kill him if he starts his rotation from jumping out of the ground. The moments he started cruising around - were instant restart, no matter how good i did on the first half. When your win depends on rng, and not your skill, builds, characters you have - it is not fun, it's a bad balancing of the game. The solution here is either "grind for better artifacts/characters" or "spend more money". And i'll tell you, most of casual players feel the latter when they're trying to do abyss. Because balance in that mode is basically non-existent. You start to feel like you're basically forced to pull for a specific characters that can "solve" your struggles, but it's just a bad game design. But if we look at it from another perspective - abyss exists solely because of marketing a new character that can be a solution. Veteran players don't feel that pressure anymore because they already pulled everything they need (characters like Kazuha, Furina, Raiden, Nahida, Neuvellette etc), but new players are forced to face that awful advertisement. And that's what Hoyo is aiming for. That's why the company doesn't care about veteran players. Why would they create any new mode for veteran players who want to test their character somewhere beside spiral abyss, when the current abyss is doing just fine for the new players as a possible endgame? Excessive anxiety? That's just an excuse for their laziness and incompetence. Because if they'll create another unbalanced mode where your win depends on the rng - they either will have to deal with the backlash from new players who will accuse them in aggressive advertisement of the characters, or with another disappointment of the og players and whales. With current abyss it's not that serious, because who really cares. And of course there's also a question of giving more primos, and we all know how stingy Hoyo is. So yeah. This my opinion. I like the battle system in the game, and i wish we had some permanent endgame mode similar to Simulated Universe in HSR (which was Labyrinth Warriors back in 2.3 i think), but i also see how unbalanced current abyss is, and know that Hoyo won't give more primos than they want, so i kinda understand why we'll never have anything new for the endgame. Because Hoyo doesn't care about veterans, it's just a casual game for casual players who never played other proper games in their life, but too greedy to miss any rewards so they want everything to be easy and casual. Sadge.
I somewhat agree, enemy unpredictability can be the make-it-or-break-it when it comes to clearing in time, but I do think some amount of RNG is important. From a speed-running or min-maxing perspective, it's an absolute nightmare, but things get too boring if they're predictable. I think the biggest problem people face with the wenut is setting up properly for the few small damage windows you get before he flies up and you get to knock him down for the larger vulnerability period. You have to start using a lot of things way earlier, oftentimes being unable to hit him, so it messes with some debuffs you can apply or changes your rotation priority, otherwise he starts flying off again before you get to finish your burst window. Those opportunities are a little hard to take advantage of, and I think that's why they generally put the wenut on a chamber where the other side can be done relatively quickly. If you can clear the first part quickly, you'll have two good damage windows (and several small ones) for the wenut. Just for the record, I do consider it to be a poorly-designed enemy, but it's mostly because I spend all my time waiting xd I outlined why I think we don't get more content in the video, but I honestly don't believe it to be laziness. Incompetence with balancing, maybe, but there are a lot of elements in the game that are given careful attention to detail and almost never get seen. I really just think it's not a high priority because the majority of people focus on other aspects of the game. I doubt HoYo will give more Primos than they think they need to, but newer combat content doesn't necessarily have to change the balance they've set. If we look at HSR, for example, they added Pure Fiction and just split the rewards with Memory of Chaos instead, so now we have a larger variety of content without changing the pull economy. Thanks for your comment! I've had a lot to think about!
@@ALittleSIMPle i agree that there should be some amount of rng, but not in the way it's done in genshin. Like, do you remember cursed 3.4, 3.5, 3.6 abysses? With sacrificial beast or whatever? The whole win was dependent on will they do their special move (so you can stun them) or not. And i kid you not, those things could cancel their movements midcast! I saw it with my own eyes. The rng should be in the abilities of enemies (variety), not in their movements (cancelations, wide jumps or dashes, that suitable for open world). It was really annoying when instead of doing its ultimate ability those beasts would suddenly do smth else and roll or sprint on the other side of the room. This type of rng is not fun! Especially if the enemy has a hefty amount of hp and you're on a time limit. As for the Wenut, i don't like him for many reasons, one is that i'm a geo main (on my main account), and until Navia came i had to skip last abyss he was in, because i didn't have many non-geo units at the time (first time after a year of 36* abyss i had to give up). Nor do i have now, but Navia atleast can nuke that beatch. This is also a specifics i don't like sometimes about abyss. It's one thing when you're forced to bring or not bring a shielder/archer/healer, and completely another when you need a specific element to win. Like 3.7 was a burgeon gatekeep for many (if i remember correctly) with three cryo heralds and baptist at the end. Yes, there were showcases of clearing it with even Eula teams or whatever, but i can only imagine the amount of attempts it took. Same with guides for abyss as well. A small difference in builds/cons and the guide is not working for you anymore. Like i remember i couldn't clear Wenut on my second account back in 3.4 or when it was there i don't really remember, until i got c6 Sucrose. The rest of my team and build was a copy of a guide i found that was suitable for me. But it didn't work until i got c6 Sucrose (i had her c2 at the time). Which is also turns us back to the aggressive advertisement Hoyo does with abyss. "You can't clear it without a specific unit" kind of thing. And guides for abyss unintentionally also work that way. At this point i find HSR more balanced game, even if it crippled my boy Jing Yuan at the start and then decided not to do so with Argenti. Life is unfair. And it's also sad that Genshin has a potential, but it's killed by devs and people who don't even do abyss. Like i'm at the point when i'm started questioning myself why am i even playing, what am i grinding for? I'm not interested in the story (also, where's my skip button? If the combat became optional, why the hell story is still not? I demand equality!), the exploration kinda meh~ especially in Sumeru (had to do it 3 times, because i'm a masochist apparently and have 3 f***ing accounts), the only "fun" thing is coop and a combat occasionally, but i can't even go full rotation in open world because everything dies even to a meme build phys Qiqi. Eh~ nothing changes, i'll quit soon anyway... Why do i even bother?
@@atomicgrave4340 Possibly an unpopular opinion, but I actually like the consecrated beasts. They had punishing attacks so you couldn't just faceroll them, and they didn't have nonsense resistances like some of the more recent enemies we have (like the wenut). You could stun them and that prevented them from hitting you, but even if you didn't find the opportunity to create that window, it didn't (directly) affect your damage (as far as I recall, at least). While I agree that choosing some units can make your experience significantly rougher, I still don't think I agree that you need a specific unit to clear. I do remember the Hydro and Cryo Heralds from 3.7, and while I did clear them with Burgeon, I also cleared with a number of other things, some of which were pretty cringe, including Nilou Bloom and Xiao (they're both C0). I think it just encourages people to be creative with what they have. Regarding HSR, I'm pretty happy with how it's turning out so far. I like that we have options and the character designs got me down bad. Poor Jing Yuan is on his own little roller coaster, but he certainly seems better now than he did before! And I, too, would appreciate a cutscene skip (for both Genshin and Star Rail). I play Genshin on two accounts (down from three) and while I do enjoy the story, going through it a second time is redundant. It's also the reason I haven't started an alt account for Star Rail. I'd love to try other characters I can't pull for on my main, but I don't wanna sit through all the cutscenes again xd You have my respect for piloting three accounts, it's a lot of work. But it's good to take a break every once in a while. It's only a game, no need to stress~
@@ALittleSIMPle nah~ the stun did affect the dmg, because while stunned, their dmg resistance was reduced to a half i think. So for people who didn't have overbuild characters - it was a way to save time for the second half and win faster. I didn't like them exactly because they'd cancel their own abilities in favor of rolling away from you or your stationary abilities. As for the need of the specific character, i was referring more to the way how many people see it. "I can't delete this electro shield fast, i bet i need a dendro character. Who's the best dendro character on the market? Nahida. I guess i need Nahida then" or "I saw how people were easily doing this thing called abyss with Raiden, i don't have her, maybe that's why i'm struggling. I should get Raiden" etc. There're many thoughts processes, but overall sometimes if you stumble upon smth you can't overcome, you tend to look for easier solutions: either not do it, or get a specific character that will help because people are saying it will help. I'm not saying that you can't overcome the obstacle with creativity, but as a geo main i felt many more restrictions in abyss than any other element users have. Like only recently i was able to clear abyss with geo teams on both sides. For the majority of 3.0 patches starting from 3.4 i couldn't do it with only geo. It literally was not possible unless i had c6 Itto or c6 Albedo or whatever (which i didn't have). So i was forced to use non-geo characters, and that's what i didn't like. That's why Wenut is the worst enemy there. There're just too many enemies that designed without keeping geo in mind. The exclusive dude you've mentioned in the video as well. Trying different teams for abyss is fine, creativity and whatnot, but many people won't think outside of the box. Plus there's still should be some type of synergy in the team, which is also a hard thing to understand for many players. Like you can't put 4 dps characters on the team and await to clear the content. In the open world, maybe, in abyss - no. I'm not saying you can't clear the abyss without Kazuha, Raiden, Furina etc, you def can (i'm a prime example of it), but most people won't be able to understand that, not only from meta point but also from the basics sometimes. If you get what i mean. They'll feel pressured to get a specific characters because the abyss structured that way for the new players so they'd feel the need so they could overcome the obstacles. At least that's how i felt at the beginning, but i never gave in. I don't have Raiden, Nahida, Furina etc on my main, and the only options i allowed myself to have were Ayato and Baizhu, only because i like Ayato's gameplay and i needed non-geo dps anyway, and because i was waiting for Baizhu since 1.1. And yes, the reason why i don't have second account in HSR because i don't wanna burn out like in Genshin. My second account in GI was created in times when there's no way of linking a ps4 account to Hoyo account (and i couldn't bring my ps4 on vacation with me), later they added the option, but i was already too deep into grinding so i decided to keep it. Though it's such a normie account, i'm getting bored of it. And my third account is the catalyst only account where i can use only catalyst characters. It's always fun to think out of the box when doing archer challenges and other stuff that designed with specific weapon type in mind. Unfortunately, even here the game doesn't give you so much freedom, forcing you to play characters you don't want, because ofc the game needs to sell them. Eh~
well genshin is 95% causal players + it by the devs statment a causal open world gacha so adding difficult content in a casual game (somethign that extremely anti causal ) is bad and stupid it like asking for easy mode in souls game it will simple be middle finger the to the mayority of the player and insult the games overall genre.Casual play for the exploration ,story and build and gathering chrs to use in the open world that the real and only endgame of genshin IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT LEAVE you are not the target audience for this game .
gotta say, this is a great video! i loved how you went through your ideas and pondered what could and couldn't work... it's a very engaging type of video, and i'm sure you'll get a lot of audience in the following days! i appreciate this because honestly, when most people comment or post about what new endgame or new gamemode that they want to see in Genshin, they don't really think of the consequences or the technical difficulties that would entail like everyone must have noticed by now that the existing gamemodes we have in the game are constantly updated because it seems that's what their vision is: a gamemode that doesn't take away from the main point of the game (exploration) but also have longevity (Teapot, TCG, and on a slightly related vein... Fishing LOL).. a roguelite/roguelike does sound like it would provide infinite replayability, but then there are things to think about: what kind of update can they give in this gamemode? more buffs, more characters or more stages? how would the development of that gamemode affect the overall development of the game? 'cause that takes resources, a whole new kind of planning on top of their insane release schedule and much more and not gonna lie? i'm glad they haven't reran the Labyrinth Warriors event: that event had a lot of potential, but it was still barebones imo: at most, you can choose between two paths with different buffs, and that's the only thing that changed LMAO only the buffs, not the placement of rooms or anything (obviously, it changed placement of rooms depending on the "stage" you unlock in the following days, but it's not like the placement of rooms change when you pick the same level everytime like Hades or a similar roguelike/roguelite LOL), though i do recognize that it was an event and it only gave us a taste of what we can expect if they ever tackle it again there's a lot of decisions to weigh when it comes to these things... and i am glad you've shown that in this video thanks! you get a sub from me bro
Thanks! I put a lot of thought into the video (though, sometimes I think not enough xd) Even though some of the older events were a bit more barebones, it does give me hope that we get more refined things in the future. A roguelike mode makes me somewhat nervous, 'cause we have that in Star Rail, and while it's fun for a while, I think I got bored of it after a couple of weeks. Arknights has its own roguelike, and I'm having trouble starting the new one 'cause the previous iteration burned me out xd But I guess there are a lot of ways they could do it, it could be neat!
@@ALittleSIMPle i've seen some of your recent videos, and it seemed to me that you were giving your points a lot of thought! don't be too hard on yourself ahaha i gotta agree, it also makes me excited on whatever they'll cook up for GI's future gamemodes... speaking of SU, it's one of the reasons why i left the game ahaha i couldn't stomach SU anymore after a few weeks and i couldn't see myself playing it in the future... more power to those who like it though! ooooh didn't know Arknights had a gamemode, that's pretty interesting
A significant portion of your statements centered around the Spiral Abyss, a challenging endgame feature in Genshin Impact. I seen somewhere saying that fewer than 10% of players engage with the Abyss on a monthly basis. This statistic suggests that a majority of players adopt a more casual approach, indicating a preference for content beyond the demanding endgame challenges. It's crucial to recognize that catering solely to the endgame may not necessarily enhance Genshin Impact's popularity. In fact, an exclusive focus on endgame content might alienate casual players, potentially leading to dissatisfaction and negative sentiments towards the game. Balancing content to appeal to a broader player base, including those with varying levels of commitment, is key to maintaining Genshin Impact's widespread appeal.
Yes! I actually think I mentioned all of that in the video. The idea was to point out why endgame combat content isn't on MiHoYo's priority list, even if some people (including myself) may want it.
@@danielbarnes1241 That's not necessarily the case. The majority of the player base does not partake in Genshin content outside of the game. And of those that do, the majority of those either probably rarely do so or do mostly "cosmetic" things... looking at some fan-art, cosplay, etc.. And of those, only a small portion comment. So, basically, we are in a social media bubble of like-minded players, but not one that necessarily reflects the game's player base as a whole. Think about some stuff they've done, like make WL ascension domain easier. Nobody who watches guide videos and such asked for that. Yet Genshin made those things easier. Why did they do that? Well, they most likely either got feedback saying that was a painful experience or they looked at the statistics of when players quit the game, how long they took to complete the domain, how often they died, etc., and found that particular situation was an issue for too many players. Likewise, look at some other QoL features they've added, like the "what talent to focus on" thing, as well as the "artifact loadout" thing. These are not for aimed at players that view guides and such. They're aimed at casuals that don't have a clue.
and how many player have 100% exploration in all zones? Because I don´t know anyone, I think the number of hardcore exploration fans is also pretty limited and I see more and more casuals being burned out by it. Casuals don´t like abyss because it is stiff, but I know many that enjoy the combat events. Genshin needs a roguelike and more interesting battle endgame
All we currently have is Spiral Abyss, a Time Gated DPS Check, I would enjoy a mode were endurance and DPS of your party would count into consideration(For example, more defensive units like Dehya and Qiqi would be more viable in this type of content), and if the mode was Co-Op, It would be even more fun The mode could be a Raid Boss or a Rogue Like
Thanks for talking about this subject. Also, you forgor to mention the event "Divine Ingenuity" where we could build our own customized domains. It was not perfect but it was a start. You could either build fun and casual domains, or like me make it as hard as possible and have fun with friends that enjoy that. It was a breath of fresh air while it lasted but was forgotten as any other limited event... I agree with your point or not putting primo rewards to any difficult or challenging content. So it remain optional to the primo addicts. Lastly I would like to add the argument for content creators as it would be something new to make content with. Even if casuals would not wish to partake in this additional content, they might enjoy watching their favorite streamers attempts, have fun or suffer trying to clear new challenges. I guess it would be overall a small but not negligible bonus publicity for Genshin, thus driving more engagement and bringing new players in. The cherry on top would be if the content was co-op, streamers would have also the opportunity to do collaborations with those challenges. It should always be playable solo to not exclude anyone, and to make it fair use the general rule of multiplying the boss health per players joining as in any existing co-op content in Genshin Impact.
Oh, you're right! I didn't include it because I didn't remember there being a combat element, but you could put enemies in your domains, huh? I didn't get to dabble with a lot of players' custom domains, I think I was busy during that event, so it just slipped my mind. Extra combat content could definitely be interesting from a content creator perspective. People love watching people mald xd And I'd also love to see co-op become a little more prominent instead of feeling like an afterthought. Though, some of my recent co-op experiences had me feeling like some of the servers might not be up to snuff xd
YES!! Divine Ingenuity. I said about it in my own comment. It was amazing, me and my frend never had so much fun in Genshin! And... we could see clearly how this game has huge potential... that is just being wasted. They could at least give us that as permanent. At this point it doesn't even matter if something is polished or not, we really need like... anything! In general, what is often missed, including in this video - we need simply diverse content, that's what is most important. It shouldn't be just talk about hard content, that's a terrible misunderstanding. Hardcore players might get tired and want a bit easier but fun content as well.
@@ALittleSIMPleYes, you could put a limited cast of enemies ranging from easy mobs to over-world bosses. My favorite was the ability to put multiples waves of ruin guards during a electro hypostasis boss fight. To make it extra difficult for my crazy endgame players, I've put every mob to lvl95(it was the maximum I could) but the player character would only be at lvl70. It was the most dodging intense gameplay we've ever experienced. But I've also created some casual domain with parkour and agility challenges for my friends to have fun. 10/10 event if only it was permanent like many players wanted... Indeed co-op experience may vary due to many factors. The most problematic is always lag/desynchronization between players due to connection factors. This is when you see a friend not moving, stuck in a running animation, teleporting all over the place... Lag is the n1 enemy of any multiplayer game. We also have take into account that not every player has the same gaming platform, ultimately exacerbating the connection between all co-op players. For example if the host of the multiplayer session is lagging it will impact even those who don't. It's like the saying "we are as strong as our weakest...". But Genshin has proven us that it can work decently well within the co-op options in domains and events when most of the players have no issues.
well genshin is 95% causal players + it by the devs statment a causal open world gacha so adding difficult content in a casual game (somethign that extremely anti causal ) is bad and stupid it like asking for easy mode in souls game it will simple be middle finger the to the mayority of the player and insult the games overall genre.Casual play for the exploration ,story and build and gathering chrs to use in the open world that the real and only endgame of genshin IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT LEAVE you are not the target audience for this game .
An idea I’ve had for a little while is something akin to a raid boss Basically as a community or a large group of players we’d be given a boss to fight with an insanely large amount of health more than what could be conceivable for anyone to achieve even for the perfect team with max investment into the characters however the boss’s health rolls over every attempt and everyone else’s attempts contribute to the same health pool. This obviously works for old players because it’s basically just gonna be a damage sponge which you can wail on to your hearts content but it should also being something that newcomers would still be able to contribute to and obtain rewards for. This is a lot like in a game called xenoblade chronicles x which had a similar feature if you’d like an idea of how it’d work.
I'd love to see more co-op content. It feels like such an afterthought sometimes. A raid boss would be neat, but I can see how a poor implementation of it would have players very upset xd
@@ALittleSIMPle haha yeah no matter what they do someone’s gonna be angry. I feel like it’s better to at least try these types of ideas though in events and whatnot despite that though it’s not like there’s a whole lot of risk to adding a new game mode just look at the tcg.
I think this idea could work, but it would be much more ideal if it wasn't just one boss shared per server but if each server had a few difficulties and their own HP pool differences depending on AR and whatnot, because some people might want to participate but wouldn't want to feel completely useless against an HP bar that looks like it isn't moving, and the more content hungry players with a bunch of built characters need a HUGE HP pool that's able to handle the kinds of numbers whales can achieve with C6 characters.
@@sneakretster that makes sense maybe players can be grouped by world level with the health of the boss scaling by that metric And yeah figuring out what health to use would be a nightmare to figure out without making it too hard/easy but I would imagine the devs collect enough data on players to figure something out, I am imagining this boss to have like tens of billions of hp at the highest level but even that might not be enough for everyone playing the game
My idea for endgame content is an endless wave mode. Enemies start off 20 levels lower than your average character level for the team and become a level higher per wave clear, with world bosses showing up at certain break points. Mobs are randomized. Cycling through every world boss that can be 1v4 (so no oceanid) give players half of the primos you can acquire here, full mora, and other goodies. When the waves repeat at whatever level and you go through the waves again, players get the remaining primos. From there, it keeps scaling up "infinitely" (think of how Tetris is infinite) but the world bosses are now all of the weekly bosses at that appropriate level (so if the mods you're eating through are level 100, you now have to fight a 100 level Raiden). The weekly bosses would have a transition to their stage (such as Dvalin's being the floor literally gives way to reveal the platforms of his arena). If you manage to survive through the weekly boss cycle once, you have a chance to receive the rewards you would have gotten from one of them (imagine a selector for which boss mats you want). World bosses and mobs are only from regions you have cleared the Archon Quests from, and weekly bosses are only the ones you've unlocked. Resets every week. No timer. This is about how long you can survive, not how fast you can do it. In this way, it includes literally everyone according to their account level and progression, updates with every new region, incentivizes more ways of approaching combat, and also is new player friendly so that they can get hard-to-get mats quicker. I would imagine the primo rewards would be about half of what you get in spiral abyss, but still I think it would be different enough, and most importantly accessible enough, to make a proper addition to Genshin. Plus I just think it's funny to imagine people treating it like Tetris where they try to fully "beat" it by crashing their own game.
Every single genshin player cares about endgame content. And it won't mean it gets to be P2W. You don't about gachas so you end up being a genshin hater.
I play Genshin for exploration. With the Abyss, it's a mix of fun and lamenting for the rewards. I feel like I personally don't need more combat-related endgame, but wouldn't mind it if: 1. There were no rewards, so that I could skip it in peace if I didn't like it 2. If I were to try it, no content that requires long, uninterrupted engagement. Spiral abyss is fun because it's short and intense. Labyrinth warriors felt like one long never-ending daily commission. I think it's telling that in surveys there's always an option to say, 'I liked the event because I could finish it in an adequate amount of time'. I feel like A LOT of players asking for endgame are asking for Genshin to take more of their time. I don't mind either, but only if it's sectioned into small self-sufficient portions or, like exploration or story, can be paused at any time. 3. No forced coop. Key word forced. [Edit: unless it's a tournament, see below. Would watch it as a viewer] Tbh, I agree that a lot of complaints come from a vocal minority. I can only think about it in terms of content I'd probably watch on YT. For example, Abyss tournaments. Like that TCG event they sometimes hold, or those fan-made tournaments, with a drafting stage. I feel like it would make for engaging content both for combat-oriented players and for the viewers. Or maybe even have a seperate arena for this, with waves of enemies. Allow random and hand-picked matches, and have several options for victory (time for speedrunners, survivability for tanks (whoever can take on more waves), biggest hit for number lovers). HoYo would have to come out and swear on their grandparents' names that there would never ever be even a 500 mora rewards for this, but that's an option. But like I said, I'm not personally invested, so maybe I'm completely off the mark.
I pretty much dropped spending for the game entirely after they said that, have barely pulled anyone since and have nearly 100k primogems since there is no point in pulling for anything. If wuthering waves is decent i will continue my spending there.
@@ALittleSIMPle yeah basically. The biggest reason i hate new characters is the artifacts.. impossible to get anything decent, might as well just use who i have already established lol. At least in star rail i can use stuff to get the proper main stat artifact for the set i want to use, even if it isn't good. I will still play it for the story though and do daily's when i feel like it to keep building primo's. I might pull on Arlecchino she interests me.
the elemental reaction combat system is genuinely so interesting, but it's wasted on genshin because spiral abyss straight up just isn't fun or interesting once you have bennett, xingqiu, xiangling, and fischl built
I've been reading that HoYo's looking to hire people to develop some content, so maybe it'll get interesting soon-ish. I get to huff some copium for a while.
Big fail of Genshin's community was to equate end-game content with highly challenging content... So community got divided and yeah, it had to flop. While it makes no sense. Yeah, there is a high need for challenging content, also because of hyperinvestment... but most important is simply - diverse content to use our characters, that's all. I'm afraid this video still barely touched the possibilities. Genshin has HUGE potential for much more. You know where you could see it? Divine Ingenuity - event with custom domains. I never had so much fun in Genshin, my friends were telling the same. Some domains didn't feel like Genshin, but completely different game... But it was Genshin. It's what it could have been... if it's huge potential was not being totally wasted. Small example - I made fighting domain for archers were... best reactions were overload - for AoE and burning - for single target... Would you even think about it? I wouldn't, until I made this domain. There is so much that can be done with those characters, elements and mechanics, seriously. Just content is needed. If Hoyo doesn't want to give us any... then it could at least give as Divine Ingenuity as permanent, we would make content for ourselves! I will make more fun content than Abyss, bro! Besides, what about end-game content in overworld, for example? We had some events like that. Why not improve it and add some repeatable exploration-fighting content? Other thing - what about defensive content? Could be a bit like Theatre Mechanicus, but let's focus on characters, come on... As for events with bosses mentioned in the video - there were great, super fun! No, it's not just like Abyss. Bosses had special mechanics and at least in some cases it was really cool. As for difficulty - I believe there could be done something to satisfy many players, I don't think it's that hard to find solutions. There is soooo much potential in this game! Well, no money for Hoyo until they start treating us, players and the game seriously, simple.
well genshin is 95% causal players + it by the devs statment a causal open world gacha so adding difficult content in a casual game (something that extremely anti causal ) is bad and stupid it like asking for easy mode in souls game it will simple be middle finger the to the mayority of the players and insult the games overall genre.Casual play for the exploration ,story and build and gathering chrs to use in the open world that the real and only endgame of genshin IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT LEAVE you are not the target audience for this game then.
Incentives in gacha games are important to keep players motivated. To think if the number of players who want more endgame content is the minority, the number of players who are willing to do endgame contents without rewards would be even less. As for ideas for endgame contents, they actually have many options to give players more things to do. Some of which they have already come up with and they just need to tune them to make better fits as permanent. They can also make contents that take use of the co-op mode. Friendless people can still play co-op contents thanks to the matching system. But all in all, Genshin is just a cashcow which is still working wonders despite its never evolving gameplay. Being in the cashcow stage, a product tends to only operate as a cash-generator. Forget about the appeal of further investment in a cashcow. The earnings are then funneled to develop future products that will be replacement of the current one. People who are content with the current state of the game never really give it a chance to evolve and reach its full potential. From HYV's perspective, it's certainly pointless to develop further contents and have to give out more rewards if they are still making the same amount of money. Then again, that will only work if things are kept like this even when other games penetrate their market in the future.
I absolutely agree that incentives are important. My zero-reward proposal is really only applicable to things that would take very little development time to implement while also not disrupting the pull economy they've established. Definitely not perfect, but I just want something to hit. Co-op is definitely something I'd like to see utilized more, and they also have a lot of things started that could be converted to permanent content, it just doesn't seem they've actually done anything to put any of them in place, which is a shame. I'm not totally certain I agree with "never-evolving gameplay," since new characters can offer new dynamics to teams, or create new teams altogether, on top of there being new ways to explore the world as more regions get released, but I do agree that there is more to be desired. I'm hoping upcoming titles force some priority shifts. Thanks for the comment!
The thing is, the game is evolving and improving. Just not in the direction you want which like. I get sucks for you but I hope you find the game you are looking for!
@@ALittleSIMPle Thanks for your input and btw, I agree with your analysis on why some endgame contents like the 13th floor Spiral Abyss is not exactly a tempting idea. However, just because inventing new endgame contents is a challenging task doesn't mean players should expect HYV to give up on that idea totally. I think I need to make myself clearer as to what I meant by the gameplay is not evolving. It's true that they introduce new mechanics in both the combat and the exploration modes from time to time but the gameplay stays exactly the same. For exploration, you fight, solve puzzles and collect chests but once you reach 100% clearance, there's nothing else the map can offer other than taking a permanent place on your device memory. For combat, it all depends on whether you have the characters that go with that certain mechanic or not. The most recent example is Xianyun. Plus, no matter how many new combat mechanics they introduce, we will only need 2 teams to clear Spiral Abyss.
@@ashi8848 It's funny how often people bring up the same argument like yours. Ditto what I just said above. Despite what you tend to believe, the gameplay is exactly the same since its release. As someone who has played all kinds of content the game has offered, 100% map and collectibles, have multiple characters and team comps almost maxed out and is ready to try something new, I stand to lose nothing. I understand how business works so I just accept why Genshin will never expand further. The ones who are at a loss here are people who should have benefited more in terms of experience if the game lived up to its potential, and I'm not even suggesting only combat contents but different contents in general. But guess what, the most it will ever do is offer not even that interesting minigames once in a while and take them away after 3 weeks. Don't worry if I will be able to find another game to play. New is not always better but it will at least be giving me new experiences which Genshin could never.
@@myvu889 I understand what you mean and do agree, but do you think you have any idea how they could go about improving. Maybe it's cuz I don't play a variety of games I can't seem to come up with a good idea they could implement. Minigames are fun, but they'd get old quickly and I think the same applies to combat content. Is there a way they could utilise the map that would be interesting or any other thing they could do?
Not sure if you included this point, but a good chunk of the player-base plays this game on their phone, which is almost certainly more difficulty than playing it on a PC with a keyboard and mouse.
Speaking from my experience as a mobile player, there are some certain aspects that can pose as hindrances. On top of my mind, playing archers with charged attacks is not the easiest thing on mobiles. That said, people are accustomed to playing on their devices of choice. If you are used to playing on PC, switching to mobile would take time to get acquainted to and vice versa.
A good idea would be to have a customisable game mode, with settings that raise and lower the difficulty and rewards that scale accordingly. There'd also have to be a limit to the amount of rewards you can get per week, but still allow you to play freely afterwards.
So one of the things I liked about that one abyss a while back that kicked a lot of players butts was that it forced me to use entirely different teams than I usually would. I'm the sort of player who likes to build characters, but I often find my main team punches through pretty much everything quickly enough that I don't actually need to swap it. That abyss forced me to and I actually had a ton of fun trying out different teams to see what would work. Now, I don't think a game mode that just required different characters would vibe well would work for more casual players. I don't expect anyone else to jave nearly every character built. But whay if they took a page out of Honkai's book and allowed people to "borrow" characters that they don't usually play from their friends, and then gave us content that somehow pushed us to try unusual or different teams? What if this was a roguelike, like SU in Honkai that gave weekly or monthly rewards but could be done just for fun in a way that allows the boffs to keep it feeling new? I think that could be really fun :)
I feel like the game's been around long enough now that they can release more F12 lvl content that stretches the amount of full teams you can run (i.e. 2 teams, then 3, then 4 up to 6 etc) where you can't use the same characters again
That's an idea I toyed with, but I wasn't sure it would work with the way Genshin's pull economy is set up. I think it's a little difficult for some people to get three or more full teams. It's absolutely obtainable after some time, but how much time, I'm not too certain. Definitely an interesting idea to think about, though! I'd have to check the accounts of all my friends who quit and see what they had to work with after however much time they played.
What I thought of is a boss, but it has different modifiers (like 10% extra dmg or 2 bosses with half hp each) that you beat either in Co op or solo, a bounty hunt type content, like having an NPC ask you for a certain boss materials from a special boss that requires no resin to claim those mats, yet can't be used on characters either, and idk, get like 60 primos for 1-2 of those mats with claiming it once per day, a maximum of 5 per month or something. I'd find it fun for a while
I'd honestly love it if they just added a difficulty that buffed bounties by like, 20 times. Even if there weren't rewards involved, I'd still go and hit it. I'll really just take anything at this point.
My guy, another banger, see these are the types of discussions that I like to have, unfortunately my friend 100% judges everything I say and defends any choice they make. My idea is that the "Data" that they get NEEDS to be public, because without it we're basically at a dead end. I also would encourage a public dialog with the devs and idk, POLLS, Public Polls that can easily be sent in game like the surveys, with a reward for participating. Rather than being like Blizzard and TELLING us what we want, ASK what we want and publish the results in an unbiased manner and implement the majority votes. Surely the millions they make can afford a simple public Poll right? Unless they're afraid of what the actual results will be.
It can be hard to have discussions like these, some people are really set in their ways. I'm reading through everyone's (or mostly everyone's) thoughts and it feels like some people come into these videos with a comment already loaded in the barrel. A company being transparent with their players would go a really long way, I'd love to know more about what statistics they collect and what they reflect. Unfortunately, that opens up a lot of windows for PR nightmares and I doubt MiHoYo would ever willingly do that xd One thing I am curious about is how many people complete the in-game surveys. I know a few of my friends don't do them at all, and some of them just click whatever option just for the rewards. It's possible their internal data is more telling than actual surveys, which is a little unfortunate. It devalues the information obtained from the players that are making meaningful submissions. Thanks for your comment!
@ALittleSIMPle Pretty much, I like to discuss these things and to keep my mind open, but time and time again we get left in the dark so it'd be interesting for them to be more transparent. But the sad part is I feel that even Dawei isn't able to do so as I recall him in an interview crying tears for Honkai Impact 3rd and how it was #1 for him while at the same time Genshin Impact and Honkai Star Rail were breaking record sales and he hasn't been that emotional about their success. I can understand that Honkai and Gun Girl Z is their baby, is it me or does it seem disingenuous to Genshin and Star Rail never provoking that reaction? I'm not throwing shade either because I know those were his babies, but it feels wrong to blatantly ignore Genshin Impact's massive success and say that Honkai Impact 3rd is #1 and undefeatable. Sorry for the ramble but these questions just bug me 😩
With regards to Abyss, there was a period during Sumeru when Abyss was pretty hard. There were consecrated beasts in it that could not be stunned or I believe even frozen, they would happily send you flying or squish you against the wall where you can hardly do anything to avoid damage. And there were tons and tons of complaints that Abyss is too hard and that it's not the right kind of challenge. Given where we are in the Fontaine, it's about the same time and Abyss is nowhere that hard as it used to be. My conclusion is that despite what developers said during that aged interview, they were testing what harder Abyss will do with the playerbase and based on the experience they tuned it down to make it more accessible.
While we still have no info about it, the devs recently announced that they're hiring for UGC content. Among the few details we have, we know that combat will be included. And while this might not bear fruit for a few months at least, it's something to look forward to and hope that it's close if not exactly what the game needs.
I’ve seen there was a fairly recent video making the rounds about the rougelike event Genshin had briefly. I really loved that and at the time I thought those were tests for new gamemodes. They technically were since Simulated Universe exists, but all those surveys and tests never brought a change in the game (aside from Zhongli) By this point I quit Genshin a few patches ago, but I basically stopped doing Spiral Abyss in the first year, not because I didn’t want endgame combat, but because I just really hated the gameplay loop.
I enjoyed the roguelike event! There's an item we recently acquired in the game that seems to hint at a possible return (hopefully soon!) I can understand your reason for quitting, it's certainly not for everyone. Hope things are going well!
damn man u are doing great, i remember our talk from ur last stream i am the 700th subscriber xd a lot of fun i will surely come again, love illuman999
The best system I think is one that borrows from Arknights's Rogue-like mode. It uses a reward track, and you gain progress along this even on runs that don't reach the end, so you can do more runs with a weaker account and still get all the rewards. This reward track does not expire, so there's no FOMO, no rush. The reward track is expanded every month, so hardcore/high-playtime players don't get mega-long droughts of rewards. What characters you have access to, and their level caps, are impacted by a special currency and RNG, adding randomness to it, as well as to having a more developed roster, adding value to various characters you might not otherwise play. But you can use the equivalent of trial characters, so still friendly to newer/casual players. And to unlock characters takes a special currency, with lower tier characters being cheaper than higher rarity ones, which means those lower tier characters have value. Each run also has an end (multiple ones, actually, with a base path and other ones that are harder to complete), which combined with the RNG factors mean things don't get too stale. And on top of that, they add entire new versions of it once in a while, with some new mechanics, new buffs/debuffs, their own reward path, so yet another way they stop things from getting stale, while also avoiding the issue of something like a character costume being way, way too far down the reward path. A system like this could work well with Genshin. Much of it has already been done in various events. Unlocking buffs/debuffs? Been done. Randomized nodes as you go along, been done. Character and character level cap unlocking? Been done. Reward track? That's the BP, pretty much. The biggest issue would be what rewards to give. Not because Genshin doesn't have rewards it could offer players, but because Genshin devs suck and are super stingy with things like Fragile Resin (why are these not a reward staple from events?) and permanent wishes (again, why aren't these given out more freely?), on top of other things like artifact xp and more talent/weapon mats... things we can always use. But the short of it, there are a ton of gacha games out there that have had similar concerns to the ones Genshin has, and, like Arknights, at least some of them have come up with systems that are designed to appeal to a variety of players, to still be casual friendly, low anxiety, while also offering up something to the more invested players. The issue isn't a matter of "it can't be done" or "it would take revolutionary thought". It isn't a matter of "we can't reward players because anxiety." It isn't a matter of not enough murder boners, because Genshin routinely tosses out other bits of low boner count content. It's that Genshin devs can't be bothered, because Genshin has no real competition, so they can be lazy and it doesn't matter. And that said, Wanderer is probably my least favorite weekly boss fight. Just has a lot of bad mechanics. First part is just a bag of hp, as it is too trivial so the special mechanics mean nothing. Then you get a period of time where you don't really do much, especially if you have a good healer. Then you get the stupid bit when it charges the hard hitting attack, which far too many characters can't interact with the 3 floating things. And then you either get either another trivial finishing bit or some more running around.
Genshin has a lot of routes they could take and a lot of things that were implemented in events, which is somewhat surprising that they haven't resurfaced in a more permanent manner. Seems odd to put the development time into something you only use once or twice. I did see a notice that HoYo is hiring people for developing user generated content, though, so maybe we'll have something on the way soon...? I've been busy with TH-cam and stuff, so I haven't gotten to try IS4 very much, but I hope you're enjoying it! Also, I agree, Scaramouche fight was neat for the spectacle once, after that, it's a lot of nothing.
I think that I don't want harder content. I just want the same as floor 11/12 but with more replayability. Like how simulated universe or the roguelike mode from 2.1 isn't hard for anyone after they start being able to grind artifacts and level characters to 90, etc. Simulated universe and the variations of it are optional, have good rewards, are fun to play and allow you to play with your well built characters. I don't care if there is less rewards. I just want more to do with the combat. Or at least make weekly bosses and enemies more about challenge at higher levels (or maybe a world level 9/10 where enemies are level 100 in the overworld and have more aggressive mechanics). Like in the video, Weekly bosses have been just boring asf. I play through weekly bosses a lot in co-op week-week and it's so boring doing anything but childe and raiden. Signora is better than anything that came out during or after sumeru, but the dot you take is annoying sometimes. and none of the bosses besides raiden I ever lose to in co-op. Even if the team comp is weaker than a solo's. I don't want parrying and allat from something like wuthering waves, but just having optional difficulty for no rewards even is nice. Like I wanna use characters in overworld but I can't use Hu Tao (My main) in overworld often because She isn't worth it with just herself, and by the time I set up my supports, everything is dead. I would use higher enemy levels and even more aggressive enemies with maybe different moves limited to that difficulty that make the daily fights more fun. Something like that wouldn't give you gems, it's just increasing world level, and it would be more fun for me. I can't even use my MAIN in co-op because it's hard to use Hu Tao in a fight with random comps. I can, but it's not fun using her at like half her strength just to make a fight last longer
You know what I think would be cool? some PvP elements. Stealing ideas from another gacha game I played years ago, we can have a Deathmatch mode where players are given the same pool of trial characters and they will match with an opponent and they try to compete to see who can clear a few waves of enemies faster. Each win will net a player a token to advance their rank, and each rank upgrade will win players a set of rewards. As the rank upgrades so do the number of tokens required to upgrade. If the opponent you match with has one or more tokens, you steal all their tokens when you beat them. Another idea from the same game, a ranking event. It is a bi-weekly recurring event where players clear a few waves of enemies and is scored based on their clear times. The players are ranked by score and gets rewards based on their placing at the end of 10days. Cool thing about this mode is that players are sorted into leagues according to how well they did in the last event, and each league has numerous pools of about 500 players, so whales are competing with whales and casuals amongst casuals. the multiple pools ensures more players can get good rewards, while even just participating will give consolation prizes. These 2 PvP modes also have their own banners. and the best rewards for doing well are tickets to pull on their individual event banners which are separate from the main limited/standard banners. Yet another idea from the same game are raid bosses, and the reward is the interesting thing.... it drops the boss as a playable character! and not a bad one at that too. Just that you'll have to repeat the fight more than a hundred times to upgrade that character to max potential. I really enjoyed my time playing that game. too bad they stopped updating the game any more after 4 or 5 years. The reward system of the game makes the game feels generous and have varied gameplay mechanics to maintain interest. I know people with social anxiety will freak out, but I think anything new that is combat based is better than another balloon chasing mini game. I mean if Spiral Abyss is already giving some players excessive anxiety, why would you care about PvP modes giving a minority of people some anxiety. And just don't play them if you hate them.
It seems they've been skimping out on the dungeons lately. There are usually a few one-time domains you can run for some extra Primos, but I can't recall any from Fontaine or Chenyu Vale. It's a little unfortunate, I found them kinda fun.
I think permanent modes with one-time rewards are the best way to go about adding new content that won't stress people out. Those challenge sim universe modes HSR are the ideal endgame to me. I can do it whenever I want, and it provides an interesting challenge when I do it. It even has a lot of lore bits for people to read and piece together. Something like this in Genshin would be pretty cool. Instead of releasing an ancient ruin as an exploration area, they could make that ruin a dungeon instead. More similar to a good Zelda dungeon, that combines puzzle solving and decently challenging fights, with a cool boss at the end.
My notes: -Spiral isn't a very complex game mode. Few floors all very similar to each other, all a dps check. -How about a survive check for once? Makes you build a different team one of shields and healers. -I for one am a player that likes to make their own builds and not look up stuff. I wonder how many others like me there are. -There is a gap in difficulty between abyss and the rest of the game that could need filling. -Boss domains could have a level 100 option. There could also be opt in world level 9 too. Artifact domains which btw sometimes have some cool mechanics like hot and cold or the dmg boosts to certain elements when you're on a square could also use a level 100 option. -How about attrition? Rather than testing you on how long you can live or your dps lets test how many teams you can build. Finally something that forces you to build that 4* you like -Give me a co op abyss pleeeeease!
I've addressed a couple of these in the pinned comment, but I agree they're some pretty cool ideas! I also played around with the idea of a chamber or game mode that doesn't focus on meeting a damage check. We already have one form of that in Floor 11 where you have to defend a monolith. The alternative you brought up for a survival check, I'm not totally certain how engaging it could be. It might be interesting, I do remember seeing early videos of people rocking a strong Zhongli shield and just standing in bad stuff on purpose, but I'm also concerned that it may be too easy in a lot of cases. Since many characters have shields and heals that aren't tied to a resource like energy, you simply rely on your skill's cooldown. I'm sure there are many directions they could take with this idea at its core, but I personally didn't spend too much time thinking about it. I might give it another thought if I have the time... Some recent Genshin events have utilized mechanics where you have to build a variety of teams, or build teams based on characters provided, so your point regarding attrition may be something they're already considering! One problem I had with this as a potential permanent endgame mode is this gives players incentive to pull for a lot of units, which can be seen as a good thing or a bad thing, I think. For a gacha game, I personally believe it's best for the player if you can pull for a character you like strictly for the character and not necessarily for meta purposes. I run an alt account where I pull for characters that I'm interested in specifically for the character, and I do think it's nice that I can clear Spiral Abyss with units like Yoimiya or Wriothesley (not to say either are bad, but I wouldn't consider them "meta-defining"). If we get endgame content that one day requires you to build several well-invested teams, some people may think "man, I don't really like X unit or Y unit, but they'd make this so much easier." I could honestly see arguments for this either way. I'm sure many veteran players already have the means to create a variety of teams, so it's probably much less of an issue than my brain is making it out to be. I'll let the MiHoYo people think about it, I'm not getting paid enough. Or at all, really. Thanks for your thoughts! I enjoyed reading them!
I said this one and I'll say this over and over again: "We need a combat game mode that ask for either 5 or 7 teams at the same time, we have so many characters at this point." (That works even for Honkai Star Rail, we already can make 4 strong teams very easy)
its just so crazy i will see posts on reddit from ppl experiencing genuine sincere frustration that genshin is not generous to longtime players and while I see the point, this game makes billions of effing dollars. theres are hundreds of thousands of players who play as much as possible on their main account and also play a dozen hours on an alt. the game is stagnating because only a sliver of the player base is even in the "endgame" and a huge portion of those players are now hsr faithful which mihoyo still benefits from
Endgame Content doesn't necessarily need to revolve or involve the Spiral Abyss. Already existing one-time clear openworld domains are possibly the best and easiest ways to improve the "Combat Endgame" of Genshin. Especially since they are all already unique in mechanics and enemy line up. What they could do is add an extra mode to the base version of these domains, a challenge mode to be exact. This Challenge Mode could be as simple as just a more difficult version of the base mode or if they care to, add different mechanics, de-buffs, enemies etc. to keep it fresh. After adding Challenge Mode to these domain, make a Weekly System linked to the Reputation System that gives you rewards for clearing 3 of these Unique Challenge Domains. Since currently there are so many of these one-time clear domais, you could just choose whichever 3 that suits your play style, characters etc. and aren't limited to doing the same one's every week. Also, speaking of the Reputation System. It's a bit disappointing that after reaching max point per region, the only benefit you get from it afterwards is Mora. The Reputation EXP all goes to waste after that point. My suggestion would be: - Introduce an additional system, eg. Reputation Shop, that uses the overflow Reputation Points we gain weekly. The Reputation Points could all be regional locked to incentives players to branch out and do other regions to earn the respected points - REPUTATION SHOP could come with special regional items (Since Reputation is Regional Anyways), eg. -- A unique Liyue/Inazuma etc. Wind Glider, 4* Weapon billets, even somethings as strange as a Paint, this Paint can be applied to Characters to create different effects, whether visual changes like negative colors to the current skin, stats changes like random special gimmicks like buffs or even de-buffs for x amount of time. Just some random goofy stuff to keep things fresh. Also it's possible to paint other players in co-op for these random effects. Who knows you may be able to buff or sabotage them 😂. -- Special Cosmetic Accessories, (Weapon, Glider, Character Accessories). Eg. A Gouba chain that attaches to your weapon, or a new Trail effect that applies to your Gliders. -- Special Character Gifts that we can give characters in the Teapot for special interactions. Etc. In regards to the CHALLENGE DOMAIN specific rewards, make it so we have a chance after clearing each run to get special regional rewards like.. -- Unique 5* Weapon Billets - "very small chance to obtain" these can be use to create special 5 star weapons. (These weapons don't have to be at a power level as limited weapons, but should be good enough for players to want to get it.) -- Unique Name cards - After clearing the challenge you are guaranteed to get this Namecard. This Namecard could show information specific to the completion clear of these Challenges Domains in the description, eg. Clear Time, Characters used, Highest DMG, even total deaths and attempts. Also, since you can challenge these domains multiple times, if you get a better clear, the information on the Namecard will update to your best clearance. This Namecard may expire weekly if needs be. It's nothing important to the game but can be used as flex for competitive players. I'm trying to be specific, but this comment is already essaying lol. GENSHIN already has everything in the game. All they need to do is, just like how they improve the same events over time, improve the already existing permanent systems in the openworld.
Dodging in Genshin is a janky mechanic especially when they've designed enemies that stall, eat up stamina and force you to stand at a bit of a distance so that they can market ranged characters. They don't have motivation to make endgame because they would need to fill in the slots for characters to eleviate this and they don't want to do that just yet, they'd rather fill in every possible niche first.
Here is a good example for endgame content: the dark sea from Arcane Odyssey. You sail with your boat to islands that seamlessly (because of the fog) spawn in the direction you're going to, and on that island you can fight bosses and and collect loot. The further you go beyond the map, the harder enemies become. You always have a chance to get hit by lightning every second and your character can even get insanity debuffs if you're there for too long. You can do this activity perpetually until you die or go back to the main sea. Genshin can add the same thing but with loot that you can only utilize in that mode. Since Genshin doesn't currently have anything like this, I'll keep going to Arcane Odyssey after my dailies. Also fun note i stopped buying welkin until something epic happens to genshin (y'all should do the same) and that epic thing in question is not going to be arlecchino for me D:
Hoyo is just reserving all possible end games to newer titles. Genshin is the trial stage for every new thing they experiment with because of its large audience. I believe we will see more minigames implemented as the main end game mode on their possible future titles, were seeing a lot of them already on the new favorite child and the unborn baby.
if Starrail is any indication is that SImulated universe works well as a weekly engame mode they have labyrinth warriors just make 3 more generic layouts for the other regions to procedually generarte floors for and i will garuantee you people will eat it up just make a small shop you can buy some goodies from clearing it like primos and artifact exp bottles or some new stuff like Artifact reroller (only restocs once a month with like 5 being up to be purchased per month) use it on an already levelled +20 artifact and it redistributes all levelups going from +4 to +20 if its used on a +0 piece it gives you 4 new substats the community can only do soo much of hoyos work though
great video but you also didn't mention the local ledgend enemies we find around fontaine and one in chenyu vale where they bring out a much harder challlenge compared to their normal counterparts. i think this is good step in the right direction for a form of endgame content with the special enemies hitting harder, more faster and whatnot. for example the two geovishaps in chenyu vale kinda acts as the boss fight in enkanomiya but on a much smaller scale, when gets knocked out you need to knock the other out within a small time frame or the other geovishap will regain some health. so i do think this might be a good way to get some form of end game content
I really enjoy the local legends! I wasn't sure if I should put them in this video, though. When I was putting this together, it was initially going to cover a lot more, but then I realized it was getting pretty lengthy, so I cut a lot of things that were in the open world and focused more towards other forms of "Spiral Abyss" or events they'd done in the past. In retrospect, I should have just mentioned everything xd
This is a good video but whenever we mention wanting more endgame content abyss isn't the only thing i think about. I actually think more about maybe adding more AR and more co op content. I dont really know if it makes sense,but these things are more fun to me.
Another alternative is divine ingenuity which we got in v3.7 and actually if u look at the description of the furnishing we get in the current hilichurl event from the last stage, they're referencing divine ingenuity and on top of that in 3.7 they made the article regarding making time limted events permanent. So maybe they're working on it? And the next time divine ingenuity comes back, it will be permanent.
Yes! I actually didn't get to finish the event until earlier today (spent most of my recent time working on this video), so that didn't make the cut because I didn't know it was a thing yet xd But thanks for bringing that up! I do hope the event comes back, I enjoyed it!
I've seen couple of comments regarding TCG so maybe i can give unique perspective of something that i went through recently with the game. It's how someone such as me who used to absolutely hate TCG, comment around things such as "they adding cards for 2 players that play this game" or "who asked" and just genuinely confused as to why they spend so many development time on this to absolutely loving it to the point i want more cards and is actively trying to learn new strats. To give a background of what type of player I am, I am a completionist, a subset of players that love 100% the game (so in this case clearing every shop, every region to 100%, getting everything that's unique to the region like ornamental fishes, archives, books and last but not least achievements) we legitimately are like niche subset of players than anyone because I've only come accross 3 people who do this. But I'm just not that subset of players because i love the combat of Genshin and have been advocating for more endgame combat, i love the combat events and always have wondered why we can't get this permanent, why can't Labyrinth be something like SU for Genshin, I love doing the abyss every patch 36*. However i also don't mind casual stuff like whatever casual events they do i find it amusing, something different to break the routine of the daily grind. Also i like building characters too i have pretty much half of the roster built so this should give an idea that I'm not some casual that is defending TCG and Hoyo cause I'm not. I want more combat much as you do. Anyways so I'm pretty much was sitting at around 1100 achievements (before Chenyu) to complete my achievements and being caught up with it excluding the RNG Commission Achievements. The only Achievements now left was TCG, i disliked TCG so much that i dropped it one patch later it came and only picked it up again for 3.7 Event that was based around TCG. I wasn't feeling to do this but since i do value myself in completing everything even if i hate it, i wanted to give it a go. So i searched some decks of things that I'd like to add into my building. After completing the achievements and the TCG books i found myself to love the game even more. My friends are shocked at this as well XD because someone who was so negative about TCG now looking forward to more. I think the reason i liked it was mostly because of the strategy (i love strategy and team building) and it being built around the reaction system which lets you still explore many more team building options some very stupid, some very strong is just amazing. It gave me the same satisfaction of me playing the main combat, even though it's not like to like combat mode at all and not to mention they did make the duels feel faster so the gameplay is no longer as slow as it used to be and the balance changes helps things in the long run to keep it interesting. However I'd like to say this is not a game mode for everyone, it's turn based and i can see why people won't like it, is it like what the fanbase wanted? Absolutely no. But does it deserve to be hated just because it exists? No Just like how there's people that like Teapot, there's equally amount of people that do enjoy it and I'm part of that new niche of players. It's as big as Teapot players imo from what I've seen which isn't bad. I feel like i understand the hate much more because i was part of it but now that i look back i was stupid. Now just because this has satisfied me for endgame doesn't mean the game doesn't deserve more endgame casual as well as combat modes, we absolutely do and having more ain't bad. For people who like TCG they can play that, for people that like SU they can play that, just having more options ain't bad and I hope Hoyo has plans something for Genshin for this. Sorry for it being too long but i just wanted to share a unique perspective and my total 180 of opinion about said gamemode that's hated by the community even though there's a niche audience, just like how there's an audience for the spiral abyss and more hard combat. TCG can exist whilst still asking for new combat modes, no need to ridicule something else just because you didn't get what you asked for (yes I'm a hypocrite)
No worries, thanks for sharing your thoughts! When the TCG was first announced, I was actually pretty excited for it. I played a lot of card games when I was younger and I was interested to see how Genshin combat mechanics would play their part in the game. I played quite a bit when it released and slowed down since then, not necessarily for lack of interest, but mostly because not many of my friends are involved with it. I still pick it back up from time to time when new cards drop just to check them out. I know it's not for a lot of people, but I do think it's more interesting than a lot of people give it credit for. Don't knock it 'til you try it, right?
Let's be real, the true endgame content of Genshin should just be different combinations of the Consecrated beasts all the way 👀, especially the Consecrated Fanged Beast & Consecrated Horned Crocodile...on floor 13+ 🌝
For me I would like something like labyrinth warriors event, back in 2.2. But it would have to be done right. It would be challenging enough for hardcore players but also duable for normal players with good builds by for example obtaining some kind of buffs by doing additional rooms with environmental puzzeles so in that way they also would be able to clear this content. And as of reward I would love to get a something like Fated Artifact Billet where we be able to acquire chosen piece of artifact with chosen main and substat. So players who do care about statistic finally would be able to get those precious 50CV+ artifs (without lunaticly and endlessly farming those ↓ƃuᴉʞɔnɟ↑ domains) and milkdrinkers would be also ok, cuz they didn't care in first place.
In the combat events section, you missed Feast of the Departed Warriors, which was similar to Vagabond but focused more on a tankier enemy with new mechanics rather than increasing player damage taken. My speedrun group of friends and I felt very positive towards the event but among the posts of casuals we’d see people dying on max difficulty with a C6 Zhongli to others saying the event was too easy despite using minimum settings and then insisting that increasing the difficulty would be a waste of a time. Maybe they’ll add permanent higher difficulty combat modes based on their other titles, but as long as I can use my own characters, I don’t really mind if new stuff gets added.
Yes! There were actually a few events I excluded, since they (mostly) reinforced the same point(s). I was aiming to keep the video on the shorter side, but failed miserably.
My idea for a floor 13 is the same difficulty as floor 12 but for chamber 1 they gonna put 2 bosses making them able to utilize reactions instead of being just a thing that gets applied to you when getting hit for chamber 2 a single upgraded boss with new move sets on each and then for chamber 3 you gonna be given the choice to pick 4 of the 8 characters on each side to make a team to face off against a single buffed up weekly boss or put whethering effect with now way to clean the whethering stacks or shear cold or balethunder
I'm of the mind that the entire "excessive anxiety" interview was pretty poorly-conducted and received, because they said that Spiral Abyss (and "similar modes") in particular cause anxiety and not "combat endgame" as a whole. I could see them going in a different direction with combat endgame that is both not anxiety-inducing and not too similar to Spiral Abyss. But more importantly, I think the obvious solution to adding more rewards into the game would be to allow players to pick between Spiral Abyss and a new mode. They get the same rewards, but they can choose a different mode to do it with. Also waiting for a Divine Ingenuity rerun (or permanent mode) since that would completely satisfy me in terms of combat variety lol
well genshin is 95% causal players + it by the devs statment a causal open world gacha so adding difficult content in a casual game (somethign that extremely anti causal ) is bad and stupid it like asking for easy mode in souls game it will simple be middle finger the to the mayority of the player and insult the games overall genre.Casual play for the exploration ,story and build and gathering chrs to use in the open world that the real and only endgame of genshin IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT LEAVE you are not the target audience for this game .
Sorry for my english, I'll crave for a boss raid in coop. As you said, you don't need to get reward like primmogems or stuff, you can instead use your resin for it and get artefacts or other materials you need instead of doing dungeon. That way it makes the grinding more fun, and you can play with your firends .. They had 2 events like that where you have to kill a big boss, in 1.2 with the buffed cryo regisvine, and 2.4 with the ortell like boss. So something with a lot of HP that can tank 4 players, with specific pattern that you need to learn (as Azdaha when he arrived, it was so fun at that time) and something that can be very dangerous if you don't play safely.
I think the modern combat events are taking the complete wrong approach. I wish that my characters did as much dmg as they normally would, and the gimic buff raised just raised the numbers. I dont want to fight an enemy with 99% resistance and only and only do as much Dmg as I normally do while the gimic is active, just for the enemy to die in 2 hits with my normal dmg.
The problem I have with the Abyss is the time limit, I play FGO and that game has Challange quests at the end of each event and if it takes you 2 hours to clear, so be it. Thr Local Legends was a nice addition to the overworld and something similar in the Abyss that isnt tied to a time limit would be nice.
I'd love the idea of bigger bosses without necessarily imposing a time limit. I think the Abyss has it because it'd just become a survivability check otherwise. A lot of healing and shielding sources only come from your Elemental Skill, so it'd be pretty easy to sustain yourself as long as you don't die in one hit.
I don't know if it's true or not, but when I hear Razor main, I subscribed. (As I'm also a Razor main, I can clear abyss 12 with his Thundering Furry team though.)
after pure fiction I think we can make something similar for genshin, My idea is 5 or 6 stages where you have a limit time to accumulate points, you will have a wave of enemies and every amount of enemies will summon a boss fight so people with broken units in there accounts can have fun, and for the people that only what the reward aka primogems only the first star will give primogems so everyones happy. also before each stage they will be a buff for the teams, so people can try new team or just play with the ones they have
I love the combat in this game and how complex it is actually under the hood even though I only end up mashing buttons mindlessly every time. When that "excessive anxiety" article first appeared I think it was one of the catalysts that eventually led me to quit the game. The other was their constant TCG updates plus that infamous flagship event with it. I guess that's when I realized that I wasn't really the main demographic of the game anymore. I didn't bother with the World Quests (Aranara, Golden Slumber, etc.) and Story Quests. I didn't explore Sumeru since it was basically desert everywhere. To top it all off, after Nahidaa and Nilou there's essentially no character at the time that I looked forward to pulling for (Furina was way too far at that point, and Dehya is Dehya). Right now because of friends I went back and tried to play again and even though I feel that the game still lacks that endgame content I yearn for, at least Fontaine Archon quest and exploration isn't that bad as it was in Sumeru. Still the game has a lot of text bloat and I really find it annoying as hell. Main takeaway is if you can't resist not playing the game because of the fun you have with it, just try to vote with your wallet and hold it out until Hoyo truly deserves your money, 'coz for me it ain't anymore.
Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone and the game has its fair share of problems. Welcome back, though! I do hope you enjoy the game for as long as you decide to stick around. My comments in the video probably sound like they lean toward the negative side, but despite that, I still have a lot of fun.
How to make good engame content? Simply make the rewards obtainable in a different way for lower skill players. Introducing: «Spiral Abyss: Moonlit Gauntlet», a mode focused a little more on skill expression than just building your characters right. Every Abyss reset, a Moonlit Gauntlet is made available to everyone who has access to the Abyssal Moon Spire. This mode requires only a single team to clear, making it more accessible than, say, Floor 12. Each Moonlit Gauntlet starts off with 3 stages challenged consecutively, with the standard buffs to be obtained between levels, but also a «Lunar Phase Shift» that is a more powerful buff automatically enabled for all participants across all stages. This buff is dependent on the final, 4th stage, which is always either a Weekly Boss, or a World Boss with a more complex moveset. The newbie-friendliness comes from the fact that, if you fail, you can choose to re-enter the run on the same stage with an incremental attack, health and defence buff. About half of primogems is locked behind just clearing each stage, with about 30% locked behind clearing the entire gauntlet with 2, 1 and 0 retries and 20% locked behind clearing the gauntlet with 0 retries and within the time limits. Important note: The enemies have their health reduced and damage increased, to facilitate faster clears or fails and set a faster pace. As an example: a Moonlit Gauntlet themed around the Liue fatui, so you fight 3 stages of fatui footsoldiers and then challenge Childe. Because it’s Childe week, you will get the Lunar Phase Shift: Golden House Special - “Using Elemental Skills increases movement speed and regenerates a chunk of Stamina. Using Elemental Burst creates a zone around you that slows enemies within it.” Childe gains two new attacks: a dash-slash attack where he charges up for a short duration and zooms towards you to deliver a series of slashes (active in Delusion and Foul Legacy forms) and a ranged attack where he fires 3 arrows on an arcing trajectory at your location, when the 3rd arrow lands, the marked location explodes (active in Vision and Foul Legacy forms).
Here's the thing though I would like a place to go fight some enemies and stuff with my well built teams. I just don't want it to be a time limit DPS check. I want to take my time, heal and such then keep fighting not be stopped by an arbitrary time limit.
Lmaoo, Dont get me wrong, but seeing your such detailed analysis really makes me think that you are a part of MiHoYo itself lol.. Really DEEP and INFORMATIVE ANALYSIS!! Im glad that TH-cam recommended this to me, and it should to others too, bcoz thats what most people NEEDS TO LEARN Why "GENSHIN COULD NEVER" and stay away from only one side of the people who only knows how to complain without giving the enough reason why they are complaining and what they can do to make it better. I would Genshin still needs "MORE ENDGAME CONTENT", but yeahh i think they dont need to, or maybe they have better plans for it, maybe in future, im still COPING that THEY WILL ADD IT IN NATLAN CUZ OF NATION OF WAR THEME xDDD Thank you once again, really enjoyed the video, cant wait for another future analysis of yours now lol ❤✨
@@ALittleSIMPle lol don't worry you are doing alright. And Yeaa I can see you really put a lot of effort in making this, from voice to editing to analysis and scripting, all seems PERFECT! 💯✨ Anyways, we are going to get 2 ladies to Simp soon too lol- Acheron and Chiori xD 😏😳
i like exploration but it got annoying after sumeru release now I just want to battle with the units I have but there is nothing aside of abyss which sucks
just make a spiral-abyss-like mode that lets you get the same reward(s) regardless of how well you do; hi3rd does that (as well as genshin itself to some degree in most combat oriented events (where primos are by far the easiest and most important to obtain of the rewards)) id love it if it were roguelike, ideally like that one event where you get given a set of characters to pick from (rather than raw buffs since those are kinda boring and dont generally impact strategy which is a huge thing for me)
awesome vid, hopefully you get a chance to see this comment! I got into genshin since launch and endgame is just kind of it's own non-existant bag of worms. I try to collect everyone at c0 and hate going for 5 star cons cuz I want new gameplay from new units rather than new clear times from maximizing them. (the only exception being dehya who i c6r1'd on release because she is my favorite character in ALMOST all of gacha gaming). i am curious to what you would've thought about a gacha called king's raid if it still existed(well i mean...it does still "exist" but its a shell of its former self and has been on maintenance mode for the past like 3 years now). it was weird in how it basically did the opposite of almost every gacha game with most of its systems but still was very well executed minus the bugs and is still one of my favorite gachas of all time to the point that i didn't play most gachas before it died because everything else seemed overwhelmingly stingy in comparison. if you're interested in hearing how it worked i'd love to give a breakdown but i'd completely understand if u had 0 desire to hear about it. but i personally always found it interesting how they did so many things other gacha games didn't or didn't do(for better and worse but mostly better) nearly as often but still worked very well.
I think aiming for a variety of characters is the way that keeps things feeling the freshest. Also, C6 Dehya is based. You earn a heart. I never played King's Raid, but I did take a few minutes to look up some information. It looks pretty neat, but I'm sad to hear it isn't doing so well. I imagine the gacha economy to be quite tough, it seems to require a lot of careful balancing. If you'd like to tell me about your experience with it, I certainly won't stop you! But also, don't feel obligated to, I wouldn't want to take up too much of your time xd
@@ALittleSIMPle its the very opposite, i type too damn much because of high WPM so what feels like 3 sentences worth of time for me ends up being more like 2 wall of text length paragraphs and then i get made fun of for being a yapper XD. so i didn't wanna talk your head off!
@@DaiPai1777 I'm glad you responded, because I realize I forgot the heart. I'm still adjusting to TH-cam life and there are a lot of comments I'm reading through, but I do enjoy reading them nonetheless! I wouldn't worry too much about yapping xd
alright, if you say so....TD;LR at bottom cuz...jesus this is a long boi. it was a semi-side scrolling cooldown based action rpg with a team of either 4 6 or 8 units depending on the content. i say "semi" side scrolling because some content you were stationary. for one thing it WASN'T a character gacha. you could obtain any unit you wanted for completely free by either buying them with premium currency(which dropped like candy btw even endgame, it wasn't like honeymoon phase and then dried up well later) or you could obtain them with 0 cost by filling up a bar for them that took 2-3 weeks of irl time based on the rarity of the unit. it was very reasonable to obtain literally every character in the game. also one of the big appeals of the game was the amount of damage you could do. easily reaching millions or even billions of dps as if it was an idle game, but in real time. very dopamine rush the main gacha was the unique, character kit defining gear that only that specific character could equip. so you might think hey that just seems like a super exploitable system since the gear could use dupes to become stronger and such which would make fully gearing a character very expensive. and the answer was yesn't. it might sound crazy, but it was actually completely doable get a character to end game levels of investment character without ever touching the gacha gear banner at all, though naturally that would take quite a while and would be more of an endgame viable thing. and the reason for that was because all gacha items were obtainable throughout basically the entire game lol. end game farming content let you farm exclusive gear selection tickets, pvp was pretty easy to climb to a mid-high rank even as a newer player where you got a nice income of premium currency that didn't feel like pennies, and you could use the pvp currency for gear selection tickets as well. so what was the monetary incentive you might wonder to cause people to swipe? well that was its most controversial mechanic which is how you used dupes of gear to make your units stronger. it used a chance based system like an mmorpg enhancing system. the max rank for a piece of gear was 5. if you used a 0 exclusive gear dupe as material for raising another 0* exlcusive gear it was a 100% chance of it becoming 1. if you used a 0 to try to raise a 1* you had a 50% chance of it becoming 2. and so on going as 100-50-25-10-1%. if u wanted to go the guaranteed route you'd need 32 dupes of a weapon to have a fully 100% no risk way of getting a 5*. and each unit had 5 pieces of exclusive equipment so have fun with that lol. most people risked it as there was a fail bonus system as well and on average if you followed the standard least risk method it was more like a range of needing 7-10 dupes which is much more reasonable than 32 and also for the games economy 7-10 was more than reasonable if you were getting it through pure grind since you aren't giving the company money. also even though each character had 5 pieces of exclusive gear, you only really wanted 2 or 3 of them maxed at most(1 of which being their exclusive weapon and then the other 1 or 2 being their exclusive treasures which were basically special additional effects/augments to 1 of the 4 skills the gear pertained to.) unless u were either a whale or wanted to invest HARD into 4 particular units for pvp to min-max their stat lines. as for gameplay mechanics, each character had 3 active abilities and 1 passive usually, though some characters had swap based skills that could switch between modes. like a support unit called juno whose first skill was an aoe heal to the party in her nice form but dealt aoe damage over time to enemies in her evil form and she could swap by using her third skill. most kits were pretty unique without a lot of overlap which was impressive since there was 101 characters iirc. speaking of which the designs were amazing. with a wide variety of body types, ages, tropes, personalities, and racial diversity. there were hot muscle men, ara ara mommies, must protecc smol ones, fuggly dwarfs, and more, literally something for everyone lol. end game was really fun, there was a ton of different game modes. Shakmeh was an auto battler style thing which was the main source of farming exclusive weapon ticket fragments, but you also had raid's for different gear sets. and they actually were like boss battle raids where it was big bosses with huge health bars and lots of mechanics that you had to form a team around. gearing was very chill though (unlike Epic Seven which was probably its main competitor). it was lots of rng yes, but no flat stats, and also you could dismantle gear for dust to make gear selection tickets that let you choose up to 3 out of the 4 substats on a piece of gear. and we also had easy to acquire tickets that let you reroll the 4th stat an infinite amount of times! so getting a perfectly rolled character was only a matter of time, similar to an mmorpg. there was also god king trials which was how you got the end game weapon progression. how i touched on exclusive gear before, their weapons are called unique weapons. and you did god king trials to unlock their soul weapons, which was basically a unique weapon....for their unique weapon...in the form of a jojo stand and no im not joking LOL. but the biggest end game battle was divine punishment raid. and damn was it cool. you were basically doing what felt like an actual MMORPG style raid(though solo) where there was a laundry list of buffs and debuffs on your character and the boss and you had to micromanage all the mechanics and one or two mistakes resulted in an instant wipe, it was brutal but really really satisfying to clear. (just as an example of divine punishment raid, a few of the mechanics: there's a frost counter on your team that reaches up to 7 stacks. if it reaches 7 it freezes your units and dispels ALL of their buffs. so you need to manage the cooldowns of 2 or 3 party wide clensers to rotate them properly. there's a hitcount mechanic on the boss where if it takes 70 instances of damage(meaning multi hit skills ramp it up FAST) it shoots down lightning that interrupts your casting and increases your cooldowns per strike that hits them so you also have to constantly cycle a dispeller to remove the stacks from the boss. also the boss has a phase when it gets low enough hp that it'll wipe your party if you don't bring its CC bar down to 0 and you have a very short amount of time to do it. also the boss has like 75% crit resistance so you need to bring crit buffers or crit resistance reducers. and the list goes on. it really was like an MMORPG raid lol) pvp was also fun(i actually hit rank 1 champion on my server in one of the seasons lol.) it was real time vs another player and while it was a battle of wallets at higher rank, since everyone could get a maxed character super easily you'd eventually be on par with a whale in the standard 4v4 battle in terms of investment even as f2p. the global draft pick pvp is a different story so i wont touch on that since you need like over 18+ fully built units if u want to even stand a chance lol, that was where the true wallet warriors went, though i did reach grandmaster there but never touched challenger league. the story was pretty alright. was quite generic and forgettable early at launch but it got better and better through the years as the writing team gained more experience. and it ended off on quite a high note during the last quarter or so. the music was also solid, but nothing groundbreaking. few bangers here and there though. as i said earlier premium currency income was very generous. to the point where something that would be considered purely a whale event in any other game was totally completable f2p every time it came around pretty easily, which was a premium currency spending event where you could spend up to 50k of the currency to gain bonus rewards.
on that same note, in the energy of GENSHIN COULD NEVER, really most gachas could never; the stamina system was a joke. I kid you not it was very easy to amass MILLIONS of stamina at any point of the game and stages only cost in ranges of like 15-120 depending on the stage. i honestly dont even know why they had the stam system in place cuz it basically doesn't exist. finally the skins, oml the skins. they were all purchasable purely with premium currency, no direct monetary purchases which would be seen as predatory in most other games but again with how generous the currency income was it was actually pretty easy to get skins for your entire roster. also it had one of the best skin systems in gacha gaming, as you could mix and match different parts of the skins with other skins for the unit. so if you like the weapon skin from Kasel skin A, the hair style from Kasel skin C, and the outfit from Kasel Skin B, you could use them all together! on top of additional purchasable accessories to make the character more unique to you. i adored this game, i poured almost 6 years of my life, time, money, and connections in that game. and there will never be another gacha game like it imo, cuz if any of them tried now it would instantly flop in terms of profits with how generous it is. which makes its downfall all the more painful. the game was already kinda having a huge lull state for a year, no events, or any major updates really. and then came the death blow that literally killed the game overnight and im not using gamer exaggeration. i mean the game LITERALLY died overnight, losing most of the dedicated playerbase and forcing the company to file for bankruptcy. The update basically made everyone's gear useless as they either nerfed, removed, changed, or shifted all the set effects, chopped off entire functions/ unique skills from characters kits, slowed mana gain to a crawl, added initial cooldowns to your units, added a new layer of rng to enhancing your weapon by doing the literal worst thing imaginable and going the Korean MMORPG route of having your exclusive gear drop down a level if the enhancement fails, and personally worst of all they gutted all the base stats and damage values/ scaling. My favorite part of the game was taking my favorite characters, going into a raid and seeing how ridiculously funni the numbers got (we're talking about your dps character doing literally billions of dps end game and extremely high investment) cuz it was the fun of real time cooldown based combat with the over the top insanity of damage values of an idle game. Yes I'd even still slightly consider playing even with all that insanity if they just didn't remove my big funni numbers but that was the last straw seeing the character you've spent weeks if not months or YEARS investing into go from dealing 5,000,000,000 dps to 50,000 overnight, with not a sembalance of their old kit really remaining, they are a husk just like the game. TD;LR: gacha part of gacha game wasn't really a requirement at all to reach end game and you could aquire all characters in the game for completely free. the main swiping point was getting dupes for character exclusive gear as you needed many to max it out and maxing out certain gear was mandatory for every unit. stamina system was a joke where you could have millions of it with stages usually costing less than 100 to even only like 20. skins were amazing as they had a mix and match system which let you take your favorite part of invidiual skins from a character and merge them together, and all bought with premium currency. premium currency was extremely easy to aquire and came generously to the point that what would be considered a whale event(premium currency spending event) could be done and maxed by f2p players pretty reasonably. end game content was varied, similar to an MMORPG, especially the hardest content being actually challenging and requiring you to use all your game knowledge and skill. you were able to reach challenger rank pvp on the non-global mode completely f2p fairly reasonably by investing into a dedicated 4 unit pvp team(and most units were good in both pvp and pve.). game then started to fall off because of poor financial and development decisions leading to game going into hospice for like a year straight before releasing an update that basically thanos snapped 80% of the dedicated playerbase(probably closer to like 95% tbh) and now the game is a shell of its former self, might as well be better off used as just a character viewing game rather than playing it now. TD;LR for the TD;LR: game was good, then it was bad. thanks for coming to my ted talk. @ALittleSIMPle
i want the labyrinth warriors as endgame, it is similar to simulated universe from star rail and they do so much for endgame. Give us a spiral abyss that let you multiplayer, give us a spiral abyss focused on many enemys like "pure fiction" in star rail. I would love to have higher abyss rooms not being harder but you need 3-4 teams. What about a new endgame that has an energie system like in some events you can use each Unit only once making less valuable units not useless since you can´t use kazuha everytime or nahida
Make dungeons like that Labyrinth one but add local legends or extremely strong characters from local lore manifest within them like for example previously dead characters or enemies of past, just make it similar to BOTW's master sword trials but this time the only benefit is primogems or other smaller rewards but we also get to know about their lore too and make sure that if you loose once you can't respawn but rather need to start from the beginning this way it makes it better also make then enemies run towards you if they notice you
I also see the argument of Hoyo wanting you to be bored. Genshin has the largest audience and is what attracts people to Hoyo's games usually, but the game just runs out of content from time to time and the most invested players don't have anything to do, but those ghost versions not going that well isn't a big concern, they can focus on the important ones and schedule their other titles updates to fill the gap in content, and thus feeding both fanbases. The discussion about how star rail gives better rewards probably is good foi Hoyo, brings attention to the title, especially from frustrated genshin players that will get 55 wishes on the next patch
well genshin is 95% causal players + it by the devs statment a causal open world gacha so adding difficult content in a casual game (somethign that extremely anti causal ) is bad and stupid it like asking for easy mode in souls game it will simple be middle finger the to the mayority of the player and insult the games overall genre.Casual play for the exploration ,story and build and gathering chrs to use in the open world that the real and only endgame of genshin IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT LEAVE you are not the target audience for this game .
@@anteprs7908 tf bro, ill play what i want. Who are you to say someone is playing right or wrong? People play the way that they have most fun doing it. That argument is as good as saying to you to leave the video because this is a video for people frustrated by hoyos decision and thereby not for you
@@anteprs7908 btw HSR is also tagged as casual by Hoyo and do get frequent endgame content regularly to appeal to a larger audience. People who just play for the story and characters just are not forced to play at all, the game just gives more resources so that f2ps dont get the feeling that they are missing out on rewards from the more difficult content
I'm looking forward to it! The timing for this video's release was actually somewhat unfortunate, MiHoYo put out job applications for user-generated content like, a couple of days later, and recent new Abyss leaks have been popping up in the past week or two, so you can imagine how silly that makes me feel xd Could definitely lead to a future discussion topic, though!
I really loved Labyrinth Warriors and I miss it every patch it's gone. It was a crown event so it itself is never gonna rerun, but I wish they'd at least rip the gameplay into a permanent gamemode. I was pretty new to the game when it ran, so the combat was too hard for me to fully enjoy, but even then I had so much fun with the event! And I LOVE those custom boss events. I hate the ones that *seem* custom by letting you choose your buffs, but then all the buffs focus on the trial character and end up limiting your team and reaction comps. I much prefer being able to tune my enemy and challenge to my strength and wants rather than just buffing my characters.
I think the most satisfying thing about Genshin's combat is, emm....how do I phrase it? "A real-time Pokemon like combat?" At least learning the boss's attack pattern like a souls-like game, constantly dodging, parrying, and finding your own attack opportunities is not one of the main "enjoyment" of Genshin's combat. This actually shows that the endgame of Genshin's battle system has a foreseeable "upper limit" just like Pokemon. Apart from making the boss more tanky and making the boss's mechanics and art design more attractive, there is basically nothing more that can be added. The second thing is that this kind of combat system based on stats, if the difficulty of the endgame is not relatively easy, there will be a very big problem with Powercreep. I think Triumphant Frenzy in 4.4 is quite fun, and it’s very suitable to introduce elemental reactions and team comp to Genshin players who are not too engaged in the combat system. But judging from community feedback, many people don't even like this event, so don't even think about a more hardcore endgame.
But actually I think the most important thing is that according to the dev team themselves, less than 10% of the players want more diverse and more difficult combat gameplay.(Source: I forgot where I saw it, I will add it when I find it someday.)
I think a key issue here is maybe everyone is too fixated on "anxiety" in the form of FOMO and other ways of pressuring players. Maybe we need to take a step back and consider if this is actually Hoyo's main marketing tactic at all? Think about it - on one hand they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on out-of-game immersion, such as shorts (both live-action and animated), musical recitals, concerts and collabs with professionals. Why? To build a connection with players of course. People will pull for characters that are strong, yes. But in today's context, people are also more than happy to pull for characters they like and want. Which ties in to my next point which is.. Player choice, agency and control. The FOMO concept assumes that there are absolutely no push factors that oppose FOMO, which is not a fair judgement to make. Nowadays, with the rising general cost of living people are also getting smarter and smarter with their finances. Sure, there may be players who do spend on impulse and make bad decisions, but I'm certain that the reasonable assumption here is that for the younger audience like kids and students, they do not have nearly enough spending power, and for the older audience like working adults, we are capable of just saying no to FOMO. No one likes doing something against their wishes, and FOMO is just that - a fear. It doesn't feel good to spend due to FOMO and I'm certain a company like Hoyo knows that. This loops straight back to my former point, that they have absolutely got to "sell" their game, characters, regions etc. the conventional way, by making players like what they see. If anything, I actually think that of all the gacha game companies out there, Hoyo is in the most apt place to put out this kind of statement saying they do not want player anxiety.
I think I'm picking up what you're putting down, you have some good points! My thinking was limited to within the confines of the game, and what you're saying regarding external factors makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I think all the endgame content people have suggested and the ones you covered yourself are perfectly good addition. As someone else suggested, the difficulty could be between floor 11 and 12. It doesn't need to be more difficult. And while the gameplay is still mildly similar, its fine as that's the core Genshin mechanic. It still however is a different flavor. I personally do not like spiral abyss. I don't like timed content that much. I like high damage bosses where I dodge, but genshin's healers and shielders are over tuned so there's no incentive to play that way. Timers also prevent you from playing that way entirely. I also am of the opinion new endgame contne should not give rewards. Or at least not primogems, it can give random stuff like EXP or billets. Those are useful but msot endgamep layers don't give af, but it's something, I guess. And first-time clear primogems seems fine. As for development time, they already had those events. So, they can just make it permanent in some form with little investment necessary. Sure, engagement may be small among the playerbase but it doesn't really take away from anyone, there's only benefits if implemented properly as laid out above.
In my opinion it ties up to the entire genshin system. The fact is, it takes a lot of time to max out the unit due to resin restiction which also means that people with lower level unit won't try the abyss due to their units not strong enough to clear it with 36 stars. The artifacts add extra level of RNG over it. Also the rewards from clearing the abyss floor 12 is just 150 primos which is not even enough for 1 wish so most of us don't think it's worth to clear it. I personally do clear till floor 11 but most of the time just the buffs changes between each reset not the enemies which also means I can just use the same comp to clear it. If they increase the resin cap and allow players to build units to their max in less time with more rewards on clearing the abyss (such as more primos or self modelling artifact) then I think many people will love to try the abyss.
Unfortunately increasing the resin cap won't allow for people to build units faster, it just means you have more time before you need to log in again. They'd have to increase the rate at which resin is generated, or give us more Fragile/Transient Resin or resin-earned materials. I do agree that building units can feel painfully slow. Spiral Abyss (9-12) being a little out of reach of newer players makes sense since it's endgame combat, if it was clearable too early, then it'd be way too easy for people with older accounts. Floors 1-8 are pretty accessible early on, and they encourage players to try it, since there are free units you can obtain (Xiangling and Collei). They're just not repeatable since those lower stages become (extra) tedious for players at higher investment. It just kind of seems that the higher floors are intended to be optional, since, as you said, the rewards are pretty paltry xd By the game's design, it's not catered towards the people who really want to stretch their (combat) legs. Thanks for your comment, I enjoyed thinking about it!
@@ALittleSIMPle I was also referring to more daily resin similar to the HSR. It's really easy to max the character traces within couple weeks of farming in HSR and in my opinion if overworld bosses start costing 30 resin per run and we get 240 resin cap daily with functionality to auto condense resin, I think many people will start appreciating the process of character building and it may eventually lead them to try the difficult levels of abyss thus generating more people playing it every abyss cycle. Also what are your thoughts about roguelike mode in Wuthering Waves CBT2? If genshin does something on the same level during Natlan that might be a great way to introduce the Arena of the Never Ending War.
@@aksman100 I actually don't have an opinion of it, yet. I didn't get into the Wuthering Waves beta and most of my recent time has been consumed by picking up TH-cam, so I haven't been watching very many people play. I haven't had the chance to see the system work, but I'll absolutely try it when it launches!
I find it very weird that they don't want to add harder contents. As a former whale, the time that I whaled the most was when I first started playing. I whaled for a bunch of constellations and weapons early on because I couldn't beat the harder contents in the game. I started the game in v3.3 but by around v3.7/3.8, I basically have no reason to whale for characters unless I somehow really really like the character since c6 yelan clears abyss too easily. Now adays just having welkin+battle pass gives me enough to pull for who I want. I'd still be whaling consistently if there were harder contents that requires me to pull for more characters (even if I have no interest in their design/personality). I'd imagine there are quite some other paying players who experienced the same?
@@ALittleSIMPle Naah man I have killed more than enough Hillis and Treasure hoarders I want a new batch of healthy enemies to bully...🤣🤣 Natlan is a nation of war and we also know that Mare Jivari is located somewhere there so I hope and cope that we do get some form of a new endgame mode maybe a mode where U need to bring 3 different teams instead of the usual 2, It will be really great for us old players who now have way too many characters but most of them are benched...!!!
If I have said what may be one of the main reason why they might not add endgame or more endgame stuff, in my opinion it could be because of the working class people. Because to me having to even spend time to play Genshin is already hurdle if i didn't have a day off from work to effectively clear everything as my pincushion i would've dropped Genshin due to time restraint. I know some don't even have a day off play genshin so their life is probably worst then i do.
It's also possible! Genshin can take up a large portion of time. That's another reason I thought no rewards might be an okay idea, so if you don't have the time, you really don't lose out on anything.
Edit: This video aged like room-temperature milk.
So my brain is smooth and I forgot to mention concepts like an additional world level and / or difficult bounties for the spectacle of the challenge and some or no additional reward. Might incentivize more co-op stuff. Just wanted to throw that out there.
I'm down for addtional world level, being able to experience abyss level difficulty in the overworld as someone who has a good collection of characters and great artifacts after grinding so much for so many years now.
th-cam.com/video/yvDmPijJgJs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=fE8s36u92BoLP9ab genshin finally hiring people for creating endgame combat content
@@Carlottamain Thanks for letting me know! Guess my timing was less-than-stellar xd...
@@ALittleSIMPlethere is another type of endgame that might work that mario maker type of thing amd theater mechanicus also
@@Carlottamain not really
there is a difference between more and more difficult endgame content and.. just more endgame content. i wouldnt mind if we had endgame content that in regards to its difficulty is somewhere situated between abyss floor 11 and 12. I just want an opportunity to fight stuff without constantly fighting the same enemies for 15 days
i want quantity and variety, thats it really
Yeah, I agree with that. Maybe it wouldn't feel so bad if the phases weren't the same, but I guess they keep them that way so you can try the different units you pulled on the same enemies as the previous phase. I'm so tired of things that dig.
Finally someone thinking, thank you! This game has potential for so much more, as we could see during Divine Ingenuity event. Hoyo simply wastes 90% of potential of this game. I was thinking the same regarding difficulty. To fit most players something between 11 and 12 floor would be great, or - something like most easy versions of floor 12. I myself not rarely have enough of struggle at floor 12, I would appreciate a bit easier but FUN content a lot.
Stealing Honkai's homework could be great for this - things like ER and MA would be awesome for Genshin.
@@MyVanir I always thought that Elysian Realm would be perfect for Genshin. Especially since in Elysian Realm there are certain buffs that change character's (valkyrie's) abilities almost entirely.
i want quantity and variety but also want to get rewards for doing it
tbh i think the reason most harder events didnt get received well was because they came out too early in the game where were not alot of stuff was figured out and power levels in characters still varied as well as not everyone having characters built up.
the amount of people filtered by OG childe
Hyposthatic symphony kicked everyone's teeth in
@@Kittysune12right but like in all seriousness it was so early in the game they probably didnt even have to do that
@@Kittysune12Defeating pre-nerf Childe was one of the most memorable experiences in the game. Especially since he was very strategic - I had to touch walls to remove mark that will otherwise insta-kill me. Childe now? I forgot how his second phase looks like because he dies before leaving the bubble, that's how weak he feels.
@@Kittysune12I was thinking the same. And I have reason to believe that the game outright coddles you at this point. I remember going through Raiden's Story 2 with my omega scuffed Raiden and the game just _would not let me die._
So... okay, I straight up cannot fail these fights. Now what?
We don't have endgame combat because Hoyo is too busy updating the TCG for the 12 people that still play it
I'll be honest, I like collecting the cards for the pictures
hoyo pandering to casual that gave them money ? what a shocker
I've heard TCG is a big thing in CN and also the serenitea pot
Or making a begginer guide for newbies (which is btw already is on the game)
Or maybe the fateometer is SO MUCH more important 🤣
@@iudexnoah2537 I think that the Serenitea Pot is Popular everywhere. I see tons of builds from the EN Community..!
A good endgame content might be the add things that could encourage exploration.
Like maybe there are permanent shops that you can trrade region exclusives and boss mats for to get primos or maybe have endgame content that encourages co op.
The labyrinths are the only.viable end game content i see but ill be honest i think having more skill based minigames would work for each region.
I think one of their bigger concerns that they don't want to mention directly is giving out more currency than they need to. I love the idea of more co-op content, though! More skill-based minigames would also be great. There are quite a few of them that appeared throughout events that I was hoping would be added permanently at some point, but they never came Q ~ Q
I wish there was a shop to trade in boss drops. Like you know how you're hoping for a triple to get exactly 46 drops, but you get a double so you have 45. That means one more fight will leave you with one or two extra.
@@ALittleSIMPle Vibro Crystal Research combat event is still one of my favourites :)
Abyssal dungeons would be cool, repeatable randomly generated dungeons with different rewards at the end based on the difficulty
how to make current abyss more user friendly
1. let us preview our characters, for those that frequently change artifacts onto other characters due to not having dedicated artifacts for those characters yet it can be a hassle of choosing your character then seeing they do no damage exiting the abyss equipping artifacts and weapons then reentering the abyss.
2. genshin has some pretty good combat music tracks so why not let us change the music or have a rotation of songs that we like. hearing the same combat music for three years when enkanomiya has such a banger, this grievance is annoying especially considering the teapot has this feature already with the collectable music disks.
3. might as well through some friendship xp for completing a floor for the first time. doing a "difficult" combat adventure seems like it would strengthen bonds.
Those sound like great ideas.
1: I couldn't tell you how many times I've had to back out because I forgot to swap artifact sets around.
2: I was thinking about music earlier when I was scripting this, but it didn't match the topic of the video. I was kind of playing with the idea of combat music from the region where most of the enemies are from or something to that effect. Your idea sounds better, though xd
3: Friendship experience is a real slog, I wouldn't mind a little bonus here or there.
Another key thing I'd like to see in the Abyss to make it more friendly: let us trial any chamber we've unlocked access to.
Currently, say you are having trouble with 12-2, so you are experimenting with teams. Well, each time you swap teams, you have to do 12-1 again first. This is a large part of what makes the Wenut, something that requires a bit different team make-up than people usually run, such a huge pain. But if you could just trial 12-2 to test the teams, and then do it for real starting at 12-1, you'd be set. Although given that you don't need to 3 star all three chambers in a single run, but instead all that matter is that you 3 star a chamber on any given run, they could also just scrap the entire "start at X-1" thing entirely, though that would kind of trash the difference between a floor and a chamber.
"No rewards" is a bad idea, I think. "Rewards endgame players value" may be the best thing they may do. KQM recently put out a guide on resinless grinding, a way to get like +16 worth of artifact xp and 150k mora daily by collecting respawning items and killing elite enemies. If you don't find it fun to relax to a good podcast while doing some longform grinding this thing is quite a chore. If they put some kind of a rougelike or something like that into the game that gives mora and artifact xp and it would take less time than resinless routes it would be quite a worthwhile endgame content imo.
@@anteprs7908 are you sure you answered the right comment? I did not argue for difficulty at all, my point was centered around developers not needing to make rewards big or contain primogems. They just need to contain rewards that players who are in late stages of clearing content would value, and that, in my eyes, would make that endgame content. If that mode would be varied, for example procedurally generated, I would be doubly happy.
Also, it is strange of you to advice stopping playing the game to the person who talks about doing multi-hour grind runs on daily basis, which would imply that this person considers the game to be their comfort zone.
Overall, I just do not understand the point you are trying to make, since it doesn't mesh well the point of my original message, unless you try trolling.
@@e100pavelwrong click was the comment bellow you my net lagged hahaha but as for your comment i rather anybody who ask for difficult endgame leave and go ww since they are plague on this game .
@@anteprs7908 well, from what I've seen the combat there is not as expressive as in genshin. Casual or not, genshin's combat system is a work of art, and people who like pushing it to the limit ask for more canvas to do so. Variety can be a nice thing for everyone, too, as long as you aren't forced into it. I 100%ed every region in 4 months since starting playing, yet I know people who did not 100% Mondstadt in 3 years. One day they may do it, because it', the only content left, and I may finish fishing achievement, since it's the only content I have left, and you may find yourself excited that exists as a reason for you to return to the game. You never know
@@e100pavel fair enough but but combat can be improved easy just nerf the hell out of kazuha and bennet and you see improvment ,.
For a rogue like, they had labyrith warriors, an event way back with Childe and Xinyan in Inazuma and that event lives in my heart as the best one to date. I really wish they'd make it permanent, since it plays quite a bit like Elysian Realm for HI3rd players and Simulated Universe for HSR players, almost as a mash-up of the two.
The symphony event had the coolest versions of the bosses. I miss them.
Great video again. Looking forward to more content from you!
Thanks! I got more in the works!
The best take so far on the drama, coming from a long time gamer and someone who worked on the business side of game publishing. What most people don’t realize is that the vocal minority is extremely misrepresentative of a game’s playerbase, and this is doubly so when it comes to F2P games. Less than 1% of HSR players complete MoC. Single digit percentages of MMO players engage in end game content, even though they’re invested subscribers. Building content for a tiny fraction of a F2P playerbase has diminishing returns, and as you have stated, can also alienate far more players than it can appease. Said appeasement would also be ephemeral, cf. all the snapshottable Steam thumbs down reviews of games where the person has already invested five hundred hours into the game.
Balancing endgame is difficult when you have a nearly four year old game where the largest segment of players are new. What is difficult for someone a year into the game is too easy for someone with a three year old account. And the account of someone who has played for two years free to play is very different than a dolphin who has dropped $1000 in his first twelve months. There is no scenario where you can appease the majority of players from a balance perspective when it comes to end game - and remember that even still, only a single digit percentage at best of the millions of players even clear the current end game, which most YT commentators say is “too easy.”
The solution you suggested of one time rewards is exactly the approach MHY did with HSR, with variant versions of SU like Gold & Gears. Relatively easy development and one time rewards that consume a large amount of time while offering a much higher difficulty level than existing content. The real problem with Genshin is not that the game lacks content, but that it constantly adds and then removes content. Instead of introducing permanent game modes, it adds limited one time events. From a dev perspective it’s horribly inefficient. From a psychological perspective, it’s clear MHY wants you to engage in the game loop habitually. This is why stamina is capped at under 24 hours. This is why domains are locked per day. This is why if you miss a story event, you are SOL…
Content creators may bitch and scream, but they’re a minority perspective yelling to a minority audience. Genshin still sits at the top of the industry, making money hand over fist and setting revenue records even during a “boycott.” Any changes coming to Genshin will be ones that appeal to the largest part of the playerbase. This is why we have a new catchup banner system for instance, allowing new players to get old characters they missed. This also will accelerate the banner calendar, allowing everyone to get the characters they want sooner. The central design pillar of Genshin after all is character collection.
Does this suck for people who want harder content? Yes, but it also sucks for people who want, say, Soulslike combat, or rhythm game mechanics… Genshin at its core is meant to be engaged horizontally over time, not vertically. This is why the elemental reaction system is the core mechanic of its combat system, which involves building a broad roster. This is a gotta catch em all game since day one, as are 99% of all gacha games. This isn’t an MMO or a Soulslike.
I agree! Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts! It seems like a pretty complicated thing to me, despite how simple some people make it out to sound, but I spent a few days thinking on the topic and I didn't even get to cover everything I wanted to (aimed to keep the video on the short-ish side). Again, thanks for sharing, always nice to hear the thoughts of someone who has more experience than me in these applications.
Floor 13: Three teams! Reward: 1 wish...(But you'd need 12 built characters to get a single wish)😂
I think adding a new game mode similar to the simulated universe from HSR that you spend resin and get an artifact main stat selector casual players will play it because they want to see to see their characters deal more damage + they get the selector which makes gearing way easier if you're not looking for the godliest artifacts.
And hardcore players will like it because it's a new thing to grind + it solves the mundane artifact farming sessions (+ I might finally get a 50 cv artifact been playing since launch and still haven't got one yet)
The problem with rewards forcing people to do new content can be solved by offering rewards that matters only for that content, like they do for the TCG. It's not ideal for people who want to have fun and *rewarding* content, but if this is a problem, at least there is a workaround for that. Also given that all other primogems-rewarding activity are made mandatory for all players, it doesn't seem to be an issue for MiHoyo (like you cannot skip story or exploration, serenitea pot require significant time investment before you can ignore it). But I do agree that probably numbers of combat-focused players are just not high enough to warrant any development of interesting new content, which is kinda sad
Rewards exclusive to that content also works! I'm just not sure how you'd apply that to combat, though. Maybe through stat buffs that only apply to that content, or something ?
@@ALittleSIMPlehonkai impact 3rd has a similar thing in elysian realm, you needed it's specific currency for upgrades and to unlock other characters you have, didn't play in while, I might be a bit off it also had gacha currency rewards anyways but getting most was easy, and highest difficulty(with a pretty big jump in difficulty) is pretty much just to flex
Something to note is that in 3.7, when floor 12 of the abyss was arguably the hardest is has ever been people generally didn't like it. And it wasn't because the enemies were unfair or something they were pretty much doable, the problem was that like you said yourself the majority of the players are not here for hardcore combat, as cool as that might be. Plus, every time, hoyo makes a hard enemy, like the sumeru beasts or the geo and cry lectors, they are met with an overall negative reception. So, for as cool it would be for genshin to add more endgame, it somewhat makes sense why they are not. But hey, Natlan, being the nation of war, might add another permanent combat mode or another similar thing along those lines.
For real, Ive been flamed many times for not having a life apparently when voicing out the lack of more endgame content. I will say tho it not that I want harder content per se, but I just want MORE end game content. Id prolly pipe down if i had a second abyss with a twist (I.e. Labrynth warriors was a god send), not necessarily die hard cant clear content, but at least its more to do. But I digress, more end game content means more free primos, they aint doing that for sure.
this might be 100% accurate, maybe its the player fault after all. and + the CC at that time must be overreact it, gaslighting the player to hate 3.7 abyss. after 3.7, 3.8 - 4.5 is just easier. u damm right. also yea more endgame content on natlan, that is make sense.
Honestly, 3.7 was a bad abyss on one half. The half with the Sumeru Beasts were really good imo. But putting Cryo and Hydro Heralds in one floor, then the Lector Boss on the other? Dogwater. It restricted the hell out of testing new comps in abyss, forced you to run Hydro, Pyro, Electro/Dendro in one team etc.
Restricting your teams to a select few units on one half feels absolutely horrible to play. It is restrictive, not hard.
Casual Players Ruined Genshin
No, it makes absolutely no sense they are not adding more end-game, cause why even thinking it has to be very hard?... We need diverse content in the first place. Only then we can talk about difficulty. This game barely scratches it's own potential, we could get so much more diverse gameplay it's crazy. People were exploring it themselves with Divine Ingenuity event. Hoyo could at least add this as permanent and let us make content ourselves! No money for Hoyo as long as they waste huge potential of this game!
"genshin takes up too much space on my phone" MOBILE PLAYERS UNITE 💪💪💪💪💪
Let's be real here, Hoyo, at least the team that works on Genshin, don't know how to program a balanced combat mode.
People are saying that Abyss is hard because enemies hit hard or too tanky. In some ways it is. But it's actual difficulty comes from rng behavior of those enemies. Basically they behave unpredictable, which can be a problem for most of players who can't pay attention to such minor details. Nor do they have patience to do that.
If the player have characters that are hyper invested, have cons and options of weapons, that player probably won't feel any problems with rng, but players who stuck in the middle between that hyper investment and f2p options, usually tend to struggle in abyss due to various rng problems that they mistake for "strong" enemies.
I'll try to explain what i mean here - let's take a current 4.4 12-2 for example. On the first half we have two waves of elete eremites, on the second half - Wenut that loves to stall time. On a side, i do a challenge where i play only catalysts users, and my account technically f2p for the most part (i bought welkin 3-5 times and 1 time bp), and i managed to clear this abyss with 36*. Though my major problem came from 12-2.
As a person who limited myself to a certain characters i had to strategize a lot on how to approach that particular room. And what i noticed the most, and what was annoying the most - is enemies behavior. Not their tankiness, not the dmg they were doing, but simply their behavior.
Let's talk about eremites first. The problem here was (a) grouping them together and (b) place my characters that way so the crocodile won't sprint towards me and bird won't spawn behind me. Basically i needed to move in the tight timing window, not to catch any attacks and face enemies at the right spot so i could finally cast a shield (c4 Yanfei) and start attacking with Neuv. Same goes for snake and scorpion later. If at least one of those started behaving somewhat different from what i wanted (like scorpion immediately going under the ground, or crocodile dashing) - it was an instant restart. Also, because my Neuvellette is c0 - the huge portion of my frustration came from constant interruption, which can be solved either with a good shielder (apparently 30k Yanfei is not enough) or his c1 (which is already not a free to play friendly option).
As for the Wenut, i don't why, but this guy is more predictable, he has fixated pattern of behavior except (!) the moment he starts his rotation. Like there's two ways: he either cruising from one side to another, or jumps out of the ground on the place you stand. The rest of his movements is the same. And this difference can be crucial to your winning, because it's much easier to kill him if he starts his rotation from jumping out of the ground. The moments he started cruising around - were instant restart, no matter how good i did on the first half.
When your win depends on rng, and not your skill, builds, characters you have - it is not fun, it's a bad balancing of the game. The solution here is either "grind for better artifacts/characters" or "spend more money". And i'll tell you, most of casual players feel the latter when they're trying to do abyss. Because balance in that mode is basically non-existent.
You start to feel like you're basically forced to pull for a specific characters that can "solve" your struggles, but it's just a bad game design. But if we look at it from another perspective - abyss exists solely because of marketing a new character that can be a solution. Veteran players don't feel that pressure anymore because they already pulled everything they need (characters like Kazuha, Furina, Raiden, Nahida, Neuvellette etc), but new players are forced to face that awful advertisement. And that's what Hoyo is aiming for. That's why the company doesn't care about veteran players.
Why would they create any new mode for veteran players who want to test their character somewhere beside spiral abyss, when the current abyss is doing just fine for the new players as a possible endgame?
Excessive anxiety? That's just an excuse for their laziness and incompetence. Because if they'll create another unbalanced mode where your win depends on the rng - they either will have to deal with the backlash from new players who will accuse them in aggressive advertisement of the characters, or with another disappointment of the og players and whales. With current abyss it's not that serious, because who really cares.
And of course there's also a question of giving more primos, and we all know how stingy Hoyo is. So yeah. This my opinion.
I like the battle system in the game, and i wish we had some permanent endgame mode similar to Simulated Universe in HSR (which was Labyrinth Warriors back in 2.3 i think), but i also see how unbalanced current abyss is, and know that Hoyo won't give more primos than they want, so i kinda understand why we'll never have anything new for the endgame. Because Hoyo doesn't care about veterans, it's just a casual game for casual players who never played other proper games in their life, but too greedy to miss any rewards so they want everything to be easy and casual. Sadge.
I somewhat agree, enemy unpredictability can be the make-it-or-break-it when it comes to clearing in time, but I do think some amount of RNG is important. From a speed-running or min-maxing perspective, it's an absolute nightmare, but things get too boring if they're predictable.
I think the biggest problem people face with the wenut is setting up properly for the few small damage windows you get before he flies up and you get to knock him down for the larger vulnerability period. You have to start using a lot of things way earlier, oftentimes being unable to hit him, so it messes with some debuffs you can apply or changes your rotation priority, otherwise he starts flying off again before you get to finish your burst window. Those opportunities are a little hard to take advantage of, and I think that's why they generally put the wenut on a chamber where the other side can be done relatively quickly. If you can clear the first part quickly, you'll have two good damage windows (and several small ones) for the wenut. Just for the record, I do consider it to be a poorly-designed enemy, but it's mostly because I spend all my time waiting xd
I outlined why I think we don't get more content in the video, but I honestly don't believe it to be laziness. Incompetence with balancing, maybe, but there are a lot of elements in the game that are given careful attention to detail and almost never get seen. I really just think it's not a high priority because the majority of people focus on other aspects of the game.
I doubt HoYo will give more Primos than they think they need to, but newer combat content doesn't necessarily have to change the balance they've set. If we look at HSR, for example, they added Pure Fiction and just split the rewards with Memory of Chaos instead, so now we have a larger variety of content without changing the pull economy.
Thanks for your comment! I've had a lot to think about!
@@ALittleSIMPle i agree that there should be some amount of rng, but not in the way it's done in genshin. Like, do you remember cursed 3.4, 3.5, 3.6 abysses? With sacrificial beast or whatever? The whole win was dependent on will they do their special move (so you can stun them) or not. And i kid you not, those things could cancel their movements midcast! I saw it with my own eyes. The rng should be in the abilities of enemies (variety), not in their movements (cancelations, wide jumps or dashes, that suitable for open world). It was really annoying when instead of doing its ultimate ability those beasts would suddenly do smth else and roll or sprint on the other side of the room. This type of rng is not fun! Especially if the enemy has a hefty amount of hp and you're on a time limit.
As for the Wenut, i don't like him for many reasons, one is that i'm a geo main (on my main account), and until Navia came i had to skip last abyss he was in, because i didn't have many non-geo units at the time (first time after a year of 36* abyss i had to give up). Nor do i have now, but Navia atleast can nuke that beatch. This is also a specifics i don't like sometimes about abyss. It's one thing when you're forced to bring or not bring a shielder/archer/healer, and completely another when you need a specific element to win. Like 3.7 was a burgeon gatekeep for many (if i remember correctly) with three cryo heralds and baptist at the end. Yes, there were showcases of clearing it with even Eula teams or whatever, but i can only imagine the amount of attempts it took. Same with guides for abyss as well. A small difference in builds/cons and the guide is not working for you anymore. Like i remember i couldn't clear Wenut on my second account back in 3.4 or when it was there i don't really remember, until i got c6 Sucrose. The rest of my team and build was a copy of a guide i found that was suitable for me. But it didn't work until i got c6 Sucrose (i had her c2 at the time). Which is also turns us back to the aggressive advertisement Hoyo does with abyss. "You can't clear it without a specific unit" kind of thing. And guides for abyss unintentionally also work that way.
At this point i find HSR more balanced game, even if it crippled my boy Jing Yuan at the start and then decided not to do so with Argenti. Life is unfair.
And it's also sad that Genshin has a potential, but it's killed by devs and people who don't even do abyss. Like i'm at the point when i'm started questioning myself why am i even playing, what am i grinding for? I'm not interested in the story (also, where's my skip button? If the combat became optional, why the hell story is still not? I demand equality!), the exploration kinda meh~ especially in Sumeru (had to do it 3 times, because i'm a masochist apparently and have 3 f***ing accounts), the only "fun" thing is coop and a combat occasionally, but i can't even go full rotation in open world because everything dies even to a meme build phys Qiqi. Eh~ nothing changes, i'll quit soon anyway... Why do i even bother?
@@atomicgrave4340 Possibly an unpopular opinion, but I actually like the consecrated beasts. They had punishing attacks so you couldn't just faceroll them, and they didn't have nonsense resistances like some of the more recent enemies we have (like the wenut). You could stun them and that prevented them from hitting you, but even if you didn't find the opportunity to create that window, it didn't (directly) affect your damage (as far as I recall, at least).
While I agree that choosing some units can make your experience significantly rougher, I still don't think I agree that you need a specific unit to clear. I do remember the Hydro and Cryo Heralds from 3.7, and while I did clear them with Burgeon, I also cleared with a number of other things, some of which were pretty cringe, including Nilou Bloom and Xiao (they're both C0). I think it just encourages people to be creative with what they have.
Regarding HSR, I'm pretty happy with how it's turning out so far. I like that we have options and the character designs got me down bad. Poor Jing Yuan is on his own little roller coaster, but he certainly seems better now than he did before!
And I, too, would appreciate a cutscene skip (for both Genshin and Star Rail). I play Genshin on two accounts (down from three) and while I do enjoy the story, going through it a second time is redundant. It's also the reason I haven't started an alt account for Star Rail. I'd love to try other characters I can't pull for on my main, but I don't wanna sit through all the cutscenes again xd
You have my respect for piloting three accounts, it's a lot of work. But it's good to take a break every once in a while. It's only a game, no need to stress~
@@ALittleSIMPle nah~ the stun did affect the dmg, because while stunned, their dmg resistance was reduced to a half i think. So for people who didn't have overbuild characters - it was a way to save time for the second half and win faster. I didn't like them exactly because they'd cancel their own abilities in favor of rolling away from you or your stationary abilities.
As for the need of the specific character, i was referring more to the way how many people see it. "I can't delete this electro shield fast, i bet i need a dendro character. Who's the best dendro character on the market? Nahida. I guess i need Nahida then" or "I saw how people were easily doing this thing called abyss with Raiden, i don't have her, maybe that's why i'm struggling. I should get Raiden" etc. There're many thoughts processes, but overall sometimes if you stumble upon smth you can't overcome, you tend to look for easier solutions: either not do it, or get a specific character that will help because people are saying it will help.
I'm not saying that you can't overcome the obstacle with creativity, but as a geo main i felt many more restrictions in abyss than any other element users have. Like only recently i was able to clear abyss with geo teams on both sides. For the majority of 3.0 patches starting from 3.4 i couldn't do it with only geo. It literally was not possible unless i had c6 Itto or c6 Albedo or whatever (which i didn't have). So i was forced to use non-geo characters, and that's what i didn't like. That's why Wenut is the worst enemy there. There're just too many enemies that designed without keeping geo in mind. The exclusive dude you've mentioned in the video as well.
Trying different teams for abyss is fine, creativity and whatnot, but many people won't think outside of the box. Plus there's still should be some type of synergy in the team, which is also a hard thing to understand for many players. Like you can't put 4 dps characters on the team and await to clear the content. In the open world, maybe, in abyss - no. I'm not saying you can't clear the abyss without Kazuha, Raiden, Furina etc, you def can (i'm a prime example of it), but most people won't be able to understand that, not only from meta point but also from the basics sometimes. If you get what i mean. They'll feel pressured to get a specific characters because the abyss structured that way for the new players so they'd feel the need so they could overcome the obstacles. At least that's how i felt at the beginning, but i never gave in. I don't have Raiden, Nahida, Furina etc on my main, and the only options i allowed myself to have were Ayato and Baizhu, only because i like Ayato's gameplay and i needed non-geo dps anyway, and because i was waiting for Baizhu since 1.1.
And yes, the reason why i don't have second account in HSR because i don't wanna burn out like in Genshin. My second account in GI was created in times when there's no way of linking a ps4 account to Hoyo account (and i couldn't bring my ps4 on vacation with me), later they added the option, but i was already too deep into grinding so i decided to keep it. Though it's such a normie account, i'm getting bored of it. And my third account is the catalyst only account where i can use only catalyst characters. It's always fun to think out of the box when doing archer challenges and other stuff that designed with specific weapon type in mind. Unfortunately, even here the game doesn't give you so much freedom, forcing you to play characters you don't want, because ofc the game needs to sell them. Eh~
well genshin is 95% causal players + it by the devs statment a causal open world gacha so adding difficult content in a casual game (somethign that extremely anti causal ) is bad and stupid it like asking for easy mode in souls game it will simple be middle finger the to the mayority of the player and insult the games overall genre.Casual play for the exploration ,story and build and gathering chrs to use in the open world that the real and only endgame of genshin IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT LEAVE you are not the target audience for this game .
gotta say, this is a great video! i loved how you went through your ideas and pondered what could and couldn't work... it's a very engaging type of video, and i'm sure you'll get a lot of audience in the following days!
i appreciate this because honestly, when most people comment or post about what new endgame or new gamemode that they want to see in Genshin, they don't really think of the consequences or the technical difficulties that would entail
like everyone must have noticed by now that the existing gamemodes we have in the game are constantly updated because it seems that's what their vision is: a gamemode that doesn't take away from the main point of the game (exploration) but also have longevity (Teapot, TCG, and on a slightly related vein... Fishing LOL)..
a roguelite/roguelike does sound like it would provide infinite replayability, but then there are things to think about: what kind of update can they give in this gamemode? more buffs, more characters or more stages? how would the development of that gamemode affect the overall development of the game? 'cause that takes resources, a whole new kind of planning on top of their insane release schedule and much more
and not gonna lie? i'm glad they haven't reran the Labyrinth Warriors event: that event had a lot of potential, but it was still barebones imo: at most, you can choose between two paths with different buffs, and that's the only thing that changed LMAO only the buffs, not the placement of rooms or anything (obviously, it changed placement of rooms depending on the "stage" you unlock in the following days, but it's not like the placement of rooms change when you pick the same level everytime like Hades or a similar roguelike/roguelite LOL), though i do recognize that it was an event and it only gave us a taste of what we can expect if they ever tackle it again
there's a lot of decisions to weigh when it comes to these things... and i am glad you've shown that in this video
thanks! you get a sub from me bro
Thanks! I put a lot of thought into the video (though, sometimes I think not enough xd)
Even though some of the older events were a bit more barebones, it does give me hope that we get more refined things in the future. A roguelike mode makes me somewhat nervous, 'cause we have that in Star Rail, and while it's fun for a while, I think I got bored of it after a couple of weeks. Arknights has its own roguelike, and I'm having trouble starting the new one 'cause the previous iteration burned me out xd But I guess there are a lot of ways they could do it, it could be neat!
@@ALittleSIMPle i've seen some of your recent videos, and it seemed to me that you were giving your points a lot of thought! don't be too hard on yourself ahaha
i gotta agree, it also makes me excited on whatever they'll cook up for GI's future gamemodes...
speaking of SU, it's one of the reasons why i left the game ahaha i couldn't stomach SU anymore after a few weeks and i couldn't see myself playing it in the future...
more power to those who like it though!
ooooh didn't know Arknights had a gamemode, that's pretty interesting
A significant portion of your statements centered around the Spiral Abyss, a challenging endgame feature in Genshin Impact. I seen somewhere saying that fewer than 10% of players engage with the Abyss on a monthly basis. This statistic suggests that a majority of players adopt a more casual approach, indicating a preference for content beyond the demanding endgame challenges. It's crucial to recognize that catering solely to the endgame may not necessarily enhance Genshin Impact's popularity. In fact, an exclusive focus on endgame content might alienate casual players, potentially leading to dissatisfaction and negative sentiments towards the game. Balancing content to appeal to a broader player base, including those with varying levels of commitment, is key to maintaining Genshin Impact's widespread appeal.
Yes! I actually think I mentioned all of that in the video. The idea was to point out why endgame combat content isn't on MiHoYo's priority list, even if some people (including myself) may want it.
There's already dissatisfaction and negative sentiments.
Okay but they've done pretty much nothing but appeal to the casual playerbase and STILL are making the playerbase unhappy 💀
@@danielbarnes1241 That's not necessarily the case. The majority of the player base does not partake in Genshin content outside of the game. And of those that do, the majority of those either probably rarely do so or do mostly "cosmetic" things... looking at some fan-art, cosplay, etc.. And of those, only a small portion comment. So, basically, we are in a social media bubble of like-minded players, but not one that necessarily reflects the game's player base as a whole.
Think about some stuff they've done, like make WL ascension domain easier. Nobody who watches guide videos and such asked for that. Yet Genshin made those things easier. Why did they do that? Well, they most likely either got feedback saying that was a painful experience or they looked at the statistics of when players quit the game, how long they took to complete the domain, how often they died, etc., and found that particular situation was an issue for too many players. Likewise, look at some other QoL features they've added, like the "what talent to focus on" thing, as well as the "artifact loadout" thing. These are not for aimed at players that view guides and such. They're aimed at casuals that don't have a clue.
and how many player have 100% exploration in all zones? Because I don´t know anyone, I think the number of hardcore exploration fans is also pretty limited and I see more and more casuals being burned out by it. Casuals don´t like abyss because it is stiff, but I know many that enjoy the combat events. Genshin needs a roguelike and more interesting battle endgame
All we currently have is Spiral Abyss, a Time Gated DPS Check, I would enjoy a mode were endurance and DPS of your party would count into consideration(For example, more defensive units like Dehya and Qiqi would be more viable in this type of content), and if the mode was Co-Op, It would be even more fun
The mode could be a Raid Boss or a Rogue Like
Thanks for talking about this subject. Also, you forgor to mention the event "Divine Ingenuity" where we could build our own customized domains. It was not perfect but it was a start. You could either build fun and casual domains, or like me make it as hard as possible and have fun with friends that enjoy that. It was a breath of fresh air while it lasted but was forgotten as any other limited event...
I agree with your point or not putting primo rewards to any difficult or challenging content. So it remain optional to the primo addicts.
Lastly I would like to add the argument for content creators as it would be something new to make content with. Even if casuals would not wish to partake in this additional content, they might enjoy watching their favorite streamers attempts, have fun or suffer trying to clear new challenges. I guess it would be overall a small but not negligible bonus publicity for Genshin, thus driving more engagement and bringing new players in.
The cherry on top would be if the content was co-op, streamers would have also the opportunity to do collaborations with those challenges. It should always be playable solo to not exclude anyone, and to make it fair use the general rule of multiplying the boss health per players joining as in any existing co-op content in Genshin Impact.
Oh, you're right! I didn't include it because I didn't remember there being a combat element, but you could put enemies in your domains, huh? I didn't get to dabble with a lot of players' custom domains, I think I was busy during that event, so it just slipped my mind.
Extra combat content could definitely be interesting from a content creator perspective. People love watching people mald xd
And I'd also love to see co-op become a little more prominent instead of feeling like an afterthought. Though, some of my recent co-op experiences had me feeling like some of the servers might not be up to snuff xd
YES!! Divine Ingenuity. I said about it in my own comment. It was amazing, me and my frend never had so much fun in Genshin! And... we could see clearly how this game has huge potential... that is just being wasted. They could at least give us that as permanent. At this point it doesn't even matter if something is polished or not, we really need like... anything! In general, what is often missed, including in this video - we need simply diverse content, that's what is most important. It shouldn't be just talk about hard content, that's a terrible misunderstanding. Hardcore players might get tired and want a bit easier but fun content as well.
@@MarionFR Thanks, it was indeed Divine Ingenuity!
Also, I sense a Noelle main... And I wonder why most of Noelle mains enjoy a good fight. ^^
@@ALittleSIMPleYes, you could put a limited cast of enemies ranging from easy mobs to over-world bosses. My favorite was the ability to put multiples waves of ruin guards during a electro hypostasis boss fight. To make it extra difficult for my crazy endgame players, I've put every mob to lvl95(it was the maximum I could) but the player character would only be at lvl70. It was the most dodging intense gameplay we've ever experienced. But I've also created some casual domain with parkour and agility challenges for my friends to have fun. 10/10 event if only it was permanent like many players wanted...
Indeed co-op experience may vary due to many factors. The most problematic is always lag/desynchronization between players due to connection factors. This is when you see a friend not moving, stuck in a running animation, teleporting all over the place... Lag is the n1 enemy of any multiplayer game. We also have take into account that not every player has the same gaming platform, ultimately exacerbating the connection between all co-op players. For example if the host of the multiplayer session is lagging it will impact even those who don't. It's like the saying "we are as strong as our weakest...". But Genshin has proven us that it can work decently well within the co-op options in domains and events when most of the players have no issues.
well genshin is 95% causal players + it by the devs statment a causal open world gacha so adding difficult content in a casual game (somethign that extremely anti causal ) is bad and stupid it like asking for easy mode in souls game it will simple be middle finger the to the mayority of the player and insult the games overall genre.Casual play for the exploration ,story and build and gathering chrs to use in the open world that the real and only endgame of genshin IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT LEAVE you are not the target audience for this game .
An idea I’ve had for a little while is something akin to a raid boss
Basically as a community or a large group of players we’d be given a boss to fight with an insanely large amount of health more than what could be conceivable for anyone to achieve even for the perfect team with max investment into the characters however the boss’s health rolls over every attempt and everyone else’s attempts contribute to the same health pool.
This obviously works for old players because it’s basically just gonna be a damage sponge which you can wail on to your hearts content but it should also being something that newcomers would still be able to contribute to and obtain rewards for.
This is a lot like in a game called xenoblade chronicles x which had a similar feature if you’d like an idea of how it’d work.
I'd love to see more co-op content. It feels like such an afterthought sometimes. A raid boss would be neat, but I can see how a poor implementation of it would have players very upset xd
@@ALittleSIMPle haha yeah no matter what they do someone’s gonna be angry. I feel like it’s better to at least try these types of ideas though in events and whatnot despite that though it’s not like there’s a whole lot of risk to adding a new game mode just look at the tcg.
I think this idea could work, but it would be much more ideal if it wasn't just one boss shared per server but if each server had a few difficulties and their own HP pool differences depending on AR and whatnot, because some people might want to participate but wouldn't want to feel completely useless against an HP bar that looks like it isn't moving, and the more content hungry players with a bunch of built characters need a HUGE HP pool that's able to handle the kinds of numbers whales can achieve with C6 characters.
@@sneakretster that makes sense maybe players can be grouped by world level with the health of the boss scaling by that metric
And yeah figuring out what health to use would be a nightmare to figure out without making it too hard/easy but I would imagine the devs collect enough data on players to figure something out, I am imagining this boss to have like tens of billions of hp at the highest level but even that might not be enough for everyone playing the game
My idea for endgame content is an endless wave mode. Enemies start off 20 levels lower than your average character level for the team and become a level higher per wave clear, with world bosses showing up at certain break points. Mobs are randomized. Cycling through every world boss that can be 1v4 (so no oceanid) give players half of the primos you can acquire here, full mora, and other goodies.
When the waves repeat at whatever level and you go through the waves again, players get the remaining primos. From there, it keeps scaling up "infinitely" (think of how Tetris is infinite) but the world bosses are now all of the weekly bosses at that appropriate level (so if the mods you're eating through are level 100, you now have to fight a 100 level Raiden). The weekly bosses would have a transition to their stage (such as Dvalin's being the floor literally gives way to reveal the platforms of his arena). If you manage to survive through the weekly boss cycle once, you have a chance to receive the rewards you would have gotten from one of them (imagine a selector for which boss mats you want).
World bosses and mobs are only from regions you have cleared the Archon Quests from, and weekly bosses are only the ones you've unlocked. Resets every week. No timer. This is about how long you can survive, not how fast you can do it. In this way, it includes literally everyone according to their account level and progression, updates with every new region, incentivizes more ways of approaching combat, and also is new player friendly so that they can get hard-to-get mats quicker. I would imagine the primo rewards would be about half of what you get in spiral abyss, but still I think it would be different enough, and most importantly accessible enough, to make a proper addition to Genshin. Plus I just think it's funny to imagine people treating it like Tetris where they try to fully "beat" it by crashing their own game.
Yea essentially:
1) Not worth dev time, cause only
ty on the 2 points
Every single genshin player cares about endgame content. And it won't mean it gets to be P2W. You don't about gachas so you end up being a genshin hater.
I play Genshin for exploration. With the Abyss, it's a mix of fun and lamenting for the rewards. I feel like I personally don't need more combat-related endgame, but wouldn't mind it if:
1. There were no rewards, so that I could skip it in peace if I didn't like it
2. If I were to try it, no content that requires long, uninterrupted engagement. Spiral abyss is fun because it's short and intense. Labyrinth warriors felt like one long never-ending daily commission. I think it's telling that in surveys there's always an option to say, 'I liked the event because I could finish it in an adequate amount of time'. I feel like A LOT of players asking for endgame are asking for Genshin to take more of their time. I don't mind either, but only if it's sectioned into small self-sufficient portions or, like exploration or story, can be paused at any time.
3. No forced coop. Key word forced. [Edit: unless it's a tournament, see below. Would watch it as a viewer]
Tbh, I agree that a lot of complaints come from a vocal minority. I can only think about it in terms of content I'd probably watch on YT.
For example, Abyss tournaments. Like that TCG event they sometimes hold, or those fan-made tournaments, with a drafting stage. I feel like it would make for engaging content both for combat-oriented players and for the viewers.
Or maybe even have a seperate arena for this, with waves of enemies. Allow random and hand-picked matches, and have several options for victory (time for speedrunners, survivability for tanks (whoever can take on more waves), biggest hit for number lovers). HoYo would have to come out and swear on their grandparents' names that there would never ever be even a 500 mora rewards for this, but that's an option.
But like I said, I'm not personally invested, so maybe I'm completely off the mark.
I pretty much dropped spending for the game entirely after they said that, have barely pulled anyone since and have nearly 100k primogems since there is no point in pulling for anything. If wuthering waves is decent i will continue my spending there.
Totally understandable. Nothing to sharpen your claws on, so why bother maintaining them, right?
@@ALittleSIMPle yeah basically. The biggest reason i hate new characters is the artifacts.. impossible to get anything decent, might as well just use who i have already established lol. At least in star rail i can use stuff to get the proper main stat artifact for the set i want to use, even if it isn't good.
I will still play it for the story though and do daily's when i feel like it to keep building primo's. I might pull on Arlecchino she interests me.
@@Talinthis Respect! No money for Hoyo as long as they don't treat us and the game seriously, simple 😎
@@Talinthis Arlecchino has me by the bits. It's all over for me
Excessive anxiety they say, and yet there's the souls games.
The Souls games definitely aren't for everyone xd
souls game are for hardore only players not causal and genshin is for causal only not hardcore .
the elemental reaction combat system is genuinely so interesting, but it's wasted on genshin because spiral abyss straight up just isn't fun or interesting once you have bennett, xingqiu, xiangling, and fischl built
I've been reading that HoYo's looking to hire people to develop some content, so maybe it'll get interesting soon-ish. I get to huff some copium for a while.
the thing is "I" decide when i take a break ... "YOU" dont decide when i take a break or i take a break forever ... which i did
Big fail of Genshin's community was to equate end-game content with highly challenging content...
So community got divided and yeah, it had to flop. While it makes no sense. Yeah, there is a high need for challenging content, also because of hyperinvestment... but most important is simply - diverse content to use our characters, that's all.
I'm afraid this video still barely touched the possibilities. Genshin has HUGE potential for much more. You know where you could see it? Divine Ingenuity - event with custom domains. I never had so much fun in Genshin, my friends were telling the same. Some domains didn't feel like Genshin, but completely different game... But it was Genshin. It's what it could have been... if it's huge potential was not being totally wasted. Small example - I made fighting domain for archers were... best reactions were overload - for AoE and burning - for single target... Would you even think about it? I wouldn't, until I made this domain.
There is so much that can be done with those characters, elements and mechanics, seriously. Just content is needed. If Hoyo doesn't want to give us any... then it could at least give as Divine Ingenuity as permanent, we would make content for ourselves! I will make more fun content than Abyss, bro! Besides, what about end-game content in overworld, for example? We had some events like that. Why not improve it and add some repeatable exploration-fighting content? Other thing - what about defensive content? Could be a bit like Theatre Mechanicus, but let's focus on characters, come on... As for events with bosses mentioned in the video - there were great, super fun! No, it's not just like Abyss. Bosses had special mechanics and at least in some cases it was really cool. As for difficulty - I believe there could be done something to satisfy many players, I don't think it's that hard to find solutions. There is soooo much potential in this game! Well, no money for Hoyo until they start treating us, players and the game seriously, simple.
well genshin is 95% causal players + it by the devs statment a causal open world gacha so adding difficult content in a casual game (something that extremely anti causal ) is bad and stupid it like asking for easy mode in souls game it will simple be middle finger the to the mayority of the players and insult the games overall genre.Casual play for the exploration ,story and build and gathering chrs to use in the open world that the real and only endgame of genshin IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT LEAVE you are not the target audience for this game then.
Incentives in gacha games are important to keep players motivated. To think if the number of players who want more endgame content is the minority, the number of players who are willing to do endgame contents without rewards would be even less.
As for ideas for endgame contents, they actually have many options to give players more things to do. Some of which they have already come up with and they just need to tune them to make better fits as permanent. They can also make contents that take use of the co-op mode. Friendless people can still play co-op contents thanks to the matching system.
But all in all, Genshin is just a cashcow which is still working wonders despite its never evolving gameplay. Being in the cashcow stage, a product tends to only operate as a cash-generator. Forget about the appeal of further investment in a cashcow. The earnings are then funneled to develop future products that will be replacement of the current one.
People who are content with the current state of the game never really give it a chance to evolve and reach its full potential. From HYV's perspective, it's certainly pointless to develop further contents and have to give out more rewards if they are still making the same amount of money. Then again, that will only work if things are kept like this even when other games penetrate their market in the future.
I absolutely agree that incentives are important. My zero-reward proposal is really only applicable to things that would take very little development time to implement while also not disrupting the pull economy they've established. Definitely not perfect, but I just want something to hit.
Co-op is definitely something I'd like to see utilized more, and they also have a lot of things started that could be converted to permanent content, it just doesn't seem they've actually done anything to put any of them in place, which is a shame.
I'm not totally certain I agree with "never-evolving gameplay," since new characters can offer new dynamics to teams, or create new teams altogether, on top of there being new ways to explore the world as more regions get released, but I do agree that there is more to be desired. I'm hoping upcoming titles force some priority shifts.
Thanks for the comment!
The thing is, the game is evolving and improving. Just not in the direction you want which like. I get sucks for you but I hope you find the game you are looking for!
@@ALittleSIMPle Thanks for your input and btw, I agree with your analysis on why some endgame contents like the 13th floor Spiral Abyss is not exactly a tempting idea. However, just because inventing new endgame contents is a challenging task doesn't mean players should expect HYV to give up on that idea totally.
I think I need to make myself clearer as to what I meant by the gameplay is not evolving. It's true that they introduce new mechanics in both the combat and the exploration modes from time to time but the gameplay stays exactly the same. For exploration, you fight, solve puzzles and collect chests but once you reach 100% clearance, there's nothing else the map can offer other than taking a permanent place on your device memory. For combat, it all depends on whether you have the characters that go with that certain mechanic or not. The most recent example is Xianyun. Plus, no matter how many new combat mechanics they introduce, we will only need 2 teams to clear Spiral Abyss.
@@ashi8848 It's funny how often people bring up the same argument like yours. Ditto what I just said above. Despite what you tend to believe, the gameplay is exactly the same since its release.
As someone who has played all kinds of content the game has offered, 100% map and collectibles, have multiple characters and team comps almost maxed out and is ready to try something new, I stand to lose nothing. I understand how business works so I just accept why Genshin will never expand further. The ones who are at a loss here are people who should have benefited more in terms of experience if the game lived up to its potential, and I'm not even suggesting only combat contents but different contents in general. But guess what, the most it will ever do is offer not even that interesting minigames once in a while and take them away after 3 weeks.
Don't worry if I will be able to find another game to play. New is not always better but it will at least be giving me new experiences which Genshin could never.
@@myvu889 I understand what you mean and do agree, but do you think you have any idea how they could go about improving. Maybe it's cuz I don't play a variety of games I can't seem to come up with a good idea they could implement. Minigames are fun, but they'd get old quickly and I think the same applies to combat content. Is there a way they could utilise the map that would be interesting or any other thing they could do?
Not sure if you included this point, but a good chunk of the player-base plays this game on their phone, which is almost certainly more difficulty than playing it on a PC with a keyboard and mouse.
I did not include that point, thanks for bringing it up! I've tried playing on phone. I can confirm that I'm terrible at it.
Speaking from my experience as a mobile player, there are some certain aspects that can pose as hindrances. On top of my mind, playing archers with charged attacks is not the easiest thing on mobiles. That said, people are accustomed to playing on their devices of choice. If you are used to playing on PC, switching to mobile would take time to get acquainted to and vice versa.
A good idea would be to have a customisable game mode, with settings that raise and lower the difficulty and rewards that scale accordingly. There'd also have to be a limit to the amount of rewards you can get per week, but still allow you to play freely afterwards.
I would love customizable difficulty. I just really want something to chew on.
So one of the things I liked about that one abyss a while back that kicked a lot of players butts was that it forced me to use entirely different teams than I usually would. I'm the sort of player who likes to build characters, but I often find my main team punches through pretty much everything quickly enough that I don't actually need to swap it. That abyss forced me to and I actually had a ton of fun trying out different teams to see what would work.
Now, I don't think a game mode that just required different characters would vibe well would work for more casual players. I don't expect anyone else to jave nearly every character built. But whay if they took a page out of Honkai's book and allowed people to "borrow" characters that they don't usually play from their friends, and then gave us content that somehow pushed us to try unusual or different teams? What if this was a roguelike, like SU in Honkai that gave weekly or monthly rewards but could be done just for fun in a way that allows the boffs to keep it feeling new?
I think that could be really fun :)
I feel like the game's been around long enough now that they can release more F12 lvl content that stretches the amount of full teams you can run (i.e. 2 teams, then 3, then 4 up to 6 etc) where you can't use the same characters again
Great content btw!
That's an idea I toyed with, but I wasn't sure it would work with the way Genshin's pull economy is set up. I think it's a little difficult for some people to get three or more full teams. It's absolutely obtainable after some time, but how much time, I'm not too certain. Definitely an interesting idea to think about, though! I'd have to check the accounts of all my friends who quit and see what they had to work with after however much time they played.
Yea it will make people pull the chars that they dont even want@@ALittleSIMPle
What I thought of is a boss, but it has different modifiers (like 10% extra dmg or 2 bosses with half hp each) that you beat either in Co op or solo, a bounty hunt type content, like having an NPC ask you for a certain boss materials from a special boss that requires no resin to claim those mats, yet can't be used on characters either, and idk, get like 60 primos for 1-2 of those mats with claiming it once per day, a maximum of 5 per month or something. I'd find it fun for a while
I'd honestly love it if they just added a difficulty that buffed bounties by like, 20 times. Even if there weren't rewards involved, I'd still go and hit it. I'll really just take anything at this point.
My guy, another banger, see these are the types of discussions that I like to have, unfortunately my friend 100% judges everything I say and defends any choice they make. My idea is that the "Data" that they get NEEDS to be public, because without it we're basically at a dead end. I also would encourage a public dialog with the devs and idk, POLLS, Public Polls that can easily be sent in game like the surveys, with a reward for participating. Rather than being like Blizzard and TELLING us what we want, ASK what we want and publish the results in an unbiased manner and implement the majority votes. Surely the millions they make can afford a simple public Poll right? Unless they're afraid of what the actual results will be.
It can be hard to have discussions like these, some people are really set in their ways. I'm reading through everyone's (or mostly everyone's) thoughts and it feels like some people come into these videos with a comment already loaded in the barrel.
A company being transparent with their players would go a really long way, I'd love to know more about what statistics they collect and what they reflect. Unfortunately, that opens up a lot of windows for PR nightmares and I doubt MiHoYo would ever willingly do that xd
One thing I am curious about is how many people complete the in-game surveys. I know a few of my friends don't do them at all, and some of them just click whatever option just for the rewards. It's possible their internal data is more telling than actual surveys, which is a little unfortunate. It devalues the information obtained from the players that are making meaningful submissions.
Thanks for your comment!
@ALittleSIMPle Pretty much, I like to discuss these things and to keep my mind open, but time and time again we get left in the dark so it'd be interesting for them to be more transparent. But the sad part is I feel that even Dawei isn't able to do so as I recall him in an interview crying tears for Honkai Impact 3rd and how it was #1 for him while at the same time Genshin Impact and Honkai Star Rail were breaking record sales and he hasn't been that emotional about their success. I can understand that Honkai and Gun Girl Z is their baby, is it me or does it seem disingenuous to Genshin and Star Rail never provoking that reaction? I'm not throwing shade either because I know those were his babies, but it feels wrong to blatantly ignore Genshin Impact's massive success and say that Honkai Impact 3rd is #1 and undefeatable. Sorry for the ramble but these questions just bug me 😩
Congrats on 1k! I’ve been subbed since 600 (also good video)
Thank you! I appreciate it ♥
With regards to Abyss, there was a period during Sumeru when Abyss was pretty hard. There were consecrated beasts in it that could not be stunned or I believe even frozen, they would happily send you flying or squish you against the wall where you can hardly do anything to avoid damage. And there were tons and tons of complaints that Abyss is too hard and that it's not the right kind of challenge. Given where we are in the Fontaine, it's about the same time and Abyss is nowhere that hard as it used to be. My conclusion is that despite what developers said during that aged interview, they were testing what harder Abyss will do with the playerbase and based on the experience they tuned it down to make it more accessible.
While we still have no info about it, the devs recently announced that they're hiring for UGC content.
Among the few details we have, we know that combat will be included. And while this might not bear fruit for a few months at least, it's something to look forward to and hope that it's close if not exactly what the game needs.
I heard about this! I'm looking forward to it!
I’ve seen there was a fairly recent video making the rounds about the rougelike event Genshin had briefly. I really loved that and at the time I thought those were tests for new gamemodes.
They technically were since Simulated Universe exists, but all those surveys and tests never brought a change in the game (aside from Zhongli)
By this point I quit Genshin a few patches ago, but I basically stopped doing Spiral Abyss in the first year, not because I didn’t want endgame combat, but because I just really hated the gameplay loop.
I enjoyed the roguelike event! There's an item we recently acquired in the game that seems to hint at a possible return (hopefully soon!)
I can understand your reason for quitting, it's certainly not for everyone. Hope things are going well!
damn man u are doing great, i remember our talk from ur last stream i am the 700th subscriber xd a lot of fun i will surely come again, love illuman999
Hi! I remember, glad to see you here!
The best system I think is one that borrows from Arknights's Rogue-like mode. It uses a reward track, and you gain progress along this even on runs that don't reach the end, so you can do more runs with a weaker account and still get all the rewards. This reward track does not expire, so there's no FOMO, no rush. The reward track is expanded every month, so hardcore/high-playtime players don't get mega-long droughts of rewards. What characters you have access to, and their level caps, are impacted by a special currency and RNG, adding randomness to it, as well as to having a more developed roster, adding value to various characters you might not otherwise play. But you can use the equivalent of trial characters, so still friendly to newer/casual players. And to unlock characters takes a special currency, with lower tier characters being cheaper than higher rarity ones, which means those lower tier characters have value. Each run also has an end (multiple ones, actually, with a base path and other ones that are harder to complete), which combined with the RNG factors mean things don't get too stale. And on top of that, they add entire new versions of it once in a while, with some new mechanics, new buffs/debuffs, their own reward path, so yet another way they stop things from getting stale, while also avoiding the issue of something like a character costume being way, way too far down the reward path.
A system like this could work well with Genshin. Much of it has already been done in various events. Unlocking buffs/debuffs? Been done. Randomized nodes as you go along, been done. Character and character level cap unlocking? Been done. Reward track? That's the BP, pretty much. The biggest issue would be what rewards to give. Not because Genshin doesn't have rewards it could offer players, but because Genshin devs suck and are super stingy with things like Fragile Resin (why are these not a reward staple from events?) and permanent wishes (again, why aren't these given out more freely?), on top of other things like artifact xp and more talent/weapon mats... things we can always use.
But the short of it, there are a ton of gacha games out there that have had similar concerns to the ones Genshin has, and, like Arknights, at least some of them have come up with systems that are designed to appeal to a variety of players, to still be casual friendly, low anxiety, while also offering up something to the more invested players. The issue isn't a matter of "it can't be done" or "it would take revolutionary thought". It isn't a matter of "we can't reward players because anxiety." It isn't a matter of not enough murder boners, because Genshin routinely tosses out other bits of low boner count content. It's that Genshin devs can't be bothered, because Genshin has no real competition, so they can be lazy and it doesn't matter.
And that said, Wanderer is probably my least favorite weekly boss fight. Just has a lot of bad mechanics. First part is just a bag of hp, as it is too trivial so the special mechanics mean nothing. Then you get a period of time where you don't really do much, especially if you have a good healer. Then you get the stupid bit when it charges the hard hitting attack, which far too many characters can't interact with the 3 floating things. And then you either get either another trivial finishing bit or some more running around.
Genshin has a lot of routes they could take and a lot of things that were implemented in events, which is somewhat surprising that they haven't resurfaced in a more permanent manner. Seems odd to put the development time into something you only use once or twice. I did see a notice that HoYo is hiring people for developing user generated content, though, so maybe we'll have something on the way soon...?
I've been busy with TH-cam and stuff, so I haven't gotten to try IS4 very much, but I hope you're enjoying it!
Also, I agree, Scaramouche fight was neat for the spectacle once, after that, it's a lot of nothing.
I think that I don't want harder content. I just want the same as floor 11/12 but with more replayability. Like how simulated universe or the roguelike mode from 2.1 isn't hard for anyone after they start being able to grind artifacts and level characters to 90, etc. Simulated universe and the variations of it are optional, have good rewards, are fun to play and allow you to play with your well built characters. I don't care if there is less rewards. I just want more to do with the combat. Or at least make weekly bosses and enemies more about challenge at higher levels (or maybe a world level 9/10 where enemies are level 100 in the overworld and have more aggressive mechanics). Like in the video, Weekly bosses have been just boring asf. I play through weekly bosses a lot in co-op week-week and it's so boring doing anything but childe and raiden. Signora is better than anything that came out during or after sumeru, but the dot you take is annoying sometimes. and none of the bosses besides raiden I ever lose to in co-op. Even if the team comp is weaker than a solo's. I don't want parrying and allat from something like wuthering waves, but just having optional difficulty for no rewards even is nice. Like I wanna use characters in overworld but I can't use Hu Tao (My main) in overworld often because She isn't worth it with just herself, and by the time I set up my supports, everything is dead. I would use higher enemy levels and even more aggressive enemies with maybe different moves limited to that difficulty that make the daily fights more fun. Something like that wouldn't give you gems, it's just increasing world level, and it would be more fun for me. I can't even use my MAIN in co-op because it's hard to use Hu Tao in a fight with random comps. I can, but it's not fun using her at like half her strength just to make a fight last longer
You know what I think would be cool? some PvP elements.
Stealing ideas from another gacha game I played years ago, we can have a Deathmatch mode where players are given the same pool of trial characters and they will match with an opponent and they try to compete to see who can clear a few waves of enemies faster. Each win will net a player a token to advance their rank, and each rank upgrade will win players a set of rewards. As the rank upgrades so do the number of tokens required to upgrade. If the opponent you match with has one or more tokens, you steal all their tokens when you beat them.
Another idea from the same game, a ranking event. It is a bi-weekly recurring event where players clear a few waves of enemies and is scored based on their clear times. The players are ranked by score and gets rewards based on their placing at the end of 10days. Cool thing about this mode is that players are sorted into leagues according to how well they did in the last event, and each league has numerous pools of about 500 players, so whales are competing with whales and casuals amongst casuals. the multiple pools ensures more players can get good rewards, while even just participating will give consolation prizes.
These 2 PvP modes also have their own banners. and the best rewards for doing well are tickets to pull on their individual event banners which are separate from the main limited/standard banners.
Yet another idea from the same game are raid bosses, and the reward is the interesting thing.... it drops the boss as a playable character! and not a bad one at that too. Just that you'll have to repeat the fight more than a hundred times to upgrade that character to max potential.
I really enjoyed my time playing that game. too bad they stopped updating the game any more after 4 or 5 years. The reward system of the game makes the game feels generous and have varied gameplay mechanics to maintain interest. I know people with social anxiety will freak out, but I think anything new that is combat based is better than another balloon chasing mini game. I mean if Spiral Abyss is already giving some players excessive anxiety, why would you care about PvP modes giving a minority of people some anxiety. And just don't play them if you hate them.
I´ve always hoped they added dungeons, the level up and Character quest trials were always , atleast to me
It seems they've been skimping out on the dungeons lately. There are usually a few one-time domains you can run for some extra Primos, but I can't recall any from Fontaine or Chenyu Vale. It's a little unfortunate, I found them kinda fun.
I think permanent modes with one-time rewards are the best way to go about adding new content that won't stress people out. Those challenge sim universe modes HSR are the ideal endgame to me. I can do it whenever I want, and it provides an interesting challenge when I do it. It even has a lot of lore bits for people to read and piece together. Something like this in Genshin would be pretty cool. Instead of releasing an ancient ruin as an exploration area, they could make that ruin a dungeon instead. More similar to a good Zelda dungeon, that combines puzzle solving and decently challenging fights, with a cool boss at the end.
My notes:
-Spiral isn't a very complex game mode. Few floors all very similar to each other, all a dps check.
-How about a survive check for once? Makes you build a different team one of shields and healers.
-I for one am a player that likes to make their own builds and not look up stuff. I wonder how many others like me there are.
-There is a gap in difficulty between abyss and the rest of the game that could need filling.
-Boss domains could have a level 100 option. There could also be opt in world level 9 too. Artifact domains which btw sometimes have some cool mechanics like hot and cold or the dmg boosts to certain elements when you're on a square could also use a level 100 option.
-How about attrition? Rather than testing you on how long you can live or your dps lets test how many teams you can build. Finally something that forces you to build that 4* you like
-Give me a co op abyss pleeeeease!
I've addressed a couple of these in the pinned comment, but I agree they're some pretty cool ideas! I also played around with the idea of a chamber or game mode that doesn't focus on meeting a damage check. We already have one form of that in Floor 11 where you have to defend a monolith. The alternative you brought up for a survival check, I'm not totally certain how engaging it could be. It might be interesting, I do remember seeing early videos of people rocking a strong Zhongli shield and just standing in bad stuff on purpose, but I'm also concerned that it may be too easy in a lot of cases.
Since many characters have shields and heals that aren't tied to a resource like energy, you simply rely on your skill's cooldown. I'm sure there are many directions they could take with this idea at its core, but I personally didn't spend too much time thinking about it. I might give it another thought if I have the time...
Some recent Genshin events have utilized mechanics where you have to build a variety of teams, or build teams based on characters provided, so your point regarding attrition may be something they're already considering! One problem I had with this as a potential permanent endgame mode is this gives players incentive to pull for a lot of units, which can be seen as a good thing or a bad thing, I think. For a gacha game, I personally believe it's best for the player if you can pull for a character you like strictly for the character and not necessarily for meta purposes. I run an alt account where I pull for characters that I'm interested in specifically for the character, and I do think it's nice that I can clear Spiral Abyss with units like Yoimiya or Wriothesley (not to say either are bad, but I wouldn't consider them "meta-defining"). If we get endgame content that one day requires you to build several well-invested teams, some people may think "man, I don't really like X unit or Y unit, but they'd make this so much easier." I could honestly see arguments for this either way. I'm sure many veteran players already have the means to create a variety of teams, so it's probably much less of an issue than my brain is making it out to be. I'll let the MiHoYo people think about it, I'm not getting paid enough. Or at all, really.
Thanks for your thoughts! I enjoyed reading them!
I said this one and I'll say this over and over again: "We need a combat game mode that ask for either 5 or 7 teams at the same time, we have so many characters at this point."
(That works even for Honkai Star Rail, we already can make 4 strong teams very easy)
thank you for making me laugh when i needed it the most
You have my favorite comment of the day.
its just so crazy i will see posts on reddit from ppl experiencing genuine sincere frustration that genshin is not generous to longtime players and while I see the point, this game makes billions of effing dollars. theres are hundreds of thousands of players who play as much as possible on their main account and also play a dozen hours on an alt. the game is stagnating because only a sliver of the player base is even in the "endgame" and a huge portion of those players are now hsr faithful which mihoyo still benefits from
Endgame Content doesn't necessarily need to revolve or involve the Spiral Abyss.
Already existing one-time clear openworld domains are possibly the best and easiest ways to improve the "Combat Endgame" of Genshin. Especially since they are all already unique in mechanics and enemy line up.
What they could do is add an extra mode to the base version of these domains, a challenge mode to be exact. This Challenge Mode could be as simple as just a more difficult version of the base mode or if they care to, add different mechanics, de-buffs, enemies etc. to keep it fresh.
After adding Challenge Mode to these domain, make a Weekly System linked to the Reputation System that gives you rewards for clearing 3 of these Unique Challenge Domains. Since currently there are so many of these one-time clear domais, you could just choose whichever 3 that suits your play style, characters etc. and aren't limited to doing the same one's every week.
Also, speaking of the Reputation System. It's a bit disappointing that after reaching max point per region, the only benefit you get from it afterwards is Mora. The Reputation EXP all goes to waste after that point.
My suggestion would be:
- Introduce an additional system, eg. Reputation Shop, that uses the overflow Reputation Points we gain weekly. The Reputation Points could all be regional locked to incentives players to branch out and do other regions to earn the respected points
- REPUTATION SHOP could come with special regional items (Since Reputation is Regional Anyways), eg.
-- A unique Liyue/Inazuma etc. Wind Glider, 4* Weapon billets, even somethings as strange as a Paint, this Paint can be applied to Characters to create different effects, whether visual changes like negative colors to the current skin, stats changes like random special gimmicks like buffs or even de-buffs for x amount of time. Just some random goofy stuff to keep things fresh. Also it's possible to paint other players in co-op for these random effects. Who knows you may be able to buff or sabotage them 😂.
-- Special Cosmetic Accessories, (Weapon, Glider, Character Accessories). Eg. A Gouba chain that attaches to your weapon, or a new Trail effect that applies to your Gliders.
-- Special Character Gifts that we can give characters in the Teapot for special interactions. Etc.
In regards to the CHALLENGE DOMAIN specific rewards, make it so we have a chance after clearing each run to get special regional rewards like..
-- Unique 5* Weapon Billets - "very small chance to obtain" these can be use to create special 5 star weapons. (These weapons don't have to be at a power level as limited weapons, but should be good enough for players to want to get it.)
-- Unique Name cards - After clearing the challenge you are guaranteed to get this Namecard. This Namecard could show information specific to the completion clear of these Challenges Domains in the description, eg. Clear Time, Characters used, Highest DMG, even total deaths and attempts. Also, since you can challenge these domains multiple times, if you get a better clear, the information on the Namecard will update to your best clearance. This Namecard may expire weekly if needs be. It's nothing important to the game but can be used as flex for competitive players.
I'm trying to be specific, but this comment is already essaying lol.
GENSHIN already has everything in the game. All they need to do is, just like how they improve the same events over time, improve the already existing permanent systems in the openworld.
Dodging in Genshin is a janky mechanic especially when they've designed enemies that stall, eat up stamina and force you to stand at a bit of a distance so that they can market ranged characters. They don't have motivation to make endgame because they would need to fill in the slots for characters to eleviate this and they don't want to do that just yet, they'd rather fill in every possible niche first.
Here is a good example for endgame content: the dark sea from Arcane Odyssey. You sail with your boat to islands that seamlessly (because of the fog) spawn in the direction you're going to, and on that island you can fight bosses and and collect loot. The further you go beyond the map, the harder enemies become. You always have a chance to get hit by lightning every second and your character can even get insanity debuffs if you're there for too long. You can do this activity perpetually until you die or go back to the main sea. Genshin can add the same thing but with loot that you can only utilize in that mode. Since Genshin doesn't currently have anything like this, I'll keep going to Arcane Odyssey after my dailies.
Also fun note i stopped buying welkin until something epic happens to genshin (y'all should do the same) and that epic thing in question is not going to be arlecchino for me D:
Hoyo is just reserving all possible end games to newer titles.
Genshin is the trial stage for every new thing they experiment with because of its large audience.
I believe we will see more minigames implemented as the main end game mode on their possible future titles, were seeing a lot of them already on the new favorite child and the unborn baby.
if Starrail is any indication is that SImulated universe works well as a weekly engame mode
they have labyrinth warriors just make 3 more generic layouts for the other regions to procedually generarte floors for and i will garuantee you people will eat it up
just make a small shop you can buy some goodies from clearing it like primos and artifact exp bottles or some new stuff like
Artifact reroller (only restocs once a month with like 5 being up to be purchased per month)
use it on an already levelled +20 artifact and it redistributes all levelups going from +4 to +20
if its used on a +0 piece it gives you 4 new substats
the community can only do soo much of hoyos work though
great video but you also didn't mention the local ledgend enemies we find around fontaine and one in chenyu vale where they bring out a much harder challlenge compared to their normal counterparts. i think this is good step in the right direction for a form of endgame content with the special enemies hitting harder, more faster and whatnot. for example the two geovishaps in chenyu vale kinda acts as the boss fight in enkanomiya but on a much smaller scale, when gets knocked out you need to knock the other out within a small time frame or the other geovishap will regain some health. so i do think this might be a good way to get some form of end game content
I really enjoy the local legends! I wasn't sure if I should put them in this video, though. When I was putting this together, it was initially going to cover a lot more, but then I realized it was getting pretty lengthy, so I cut a lot of things that were in the open world and focused more towards other forms of "Spiral Abyss" or events they'd done in the past. In retrospect, I should have just mentioned everything xd
@@ALittleSIMPle that's fair you can only cover so much in a video after all
This is a good video but whenever we mention wanting more endgame content abyss isn't the only thing i think about. I actually think more about maybe adding more AR and more co op content. I dont really know if it makes sense,but these things are more fun to me.
Another alternative is divine ingenuity which we got in v3.7 and actually if u look at the description of the furnishing we get in the current hilichurl event from the last stage, they're referencing divine ingenuity and on top of that in 3.7 they made the article regarding making time limted events permanent. So maybe they're working on it? And the next time divine ingenuity comes back, it will be permanent.
Yes! I actually didn't get to finish the event until earlier today (spent most of my recent time working on this video), so that didn't make the cut because I didn't know it was a thing yet xd But thanks for bringing that up! I do hope the event comes back, I enjoyed it!
I've seen couple of comments regarding TCG so maybe i can give unique perspective of something that i went through recently with the game.
It's how someone such as me who used to absolutely hate TCG, comment around things such as "they adding cards for 2 players that play this game" or "who asked" and just genuinely confused as to why they spend so many development time on this to absolutely loving it to the point i want more cards and is actively trying to learn new strats.
To give a background of what type of player I am, I am a completionist, a subset of players that love 100% the game (so in this case clearing every shop, every region to 100%, getting everything that's unique to the region like ornamental fishes, archives, books and last but not least achievements) we legitimately are like niche subset of players than anyone because I've only come accross 3 people who do this. But I'm just not that subset of players because i love the combat of Genshin and have been advocating for more endgame combat, i love the combat events and always have wondered why we can't get this permanent, why can't Labyrinth be something like SU for Genshin, I love doing the abyss every patch 36*. However i also don't mind casual stuff like whatever casual events they do i find it amusing, something different to break the routine of the daily grind. Also i like building characters too i have pretty much half of the roster built so this should give an idea that I'm not some casual that is defending TCG and Hoyo cause I'm not. I want more combat much as you do.
Anyways so I'm pretty much was sitting at around 1100 achievements (before Chenyu) to complete my achievements and being caught up with it excluding the RNG Commission Achievements. The only Achievements now left was TCG, i disliked TCG so much that i dropped it one patch later it came and only picked it up again for 3.7 Event that was based around TCG. I wasn't feeling to do this but since i do value myself in completing everything even if i hate it, i wanted to give it a go. So i searched some decks of things that I'd like to add into my building. After completing the achievements and the TCG books i found myself to love the game even more. My friends are shocked at this as well XD because someone who was so negative about TCG now looking forward to more.
I think the reason i liked it was mostly because of the strategy (i love strategy and team building) and it being built around the reaction system which lets you still explore many more team building options some very stupid, some very strong is just amazing. It gave me the same satisfaction of me playing the main combat, even though it's not like to like combat mode at all and not to mention they did make the duels feel faster so the gameplay is no longer as slow as it used to be and the balance changes helps things in the long run to keep it interesting. However I'd like to say this is not a game mode for everyone, it's turn based and i can see why people won't like it, is it like what the fanbase wanted? Absolutely no. But does it deserve to be hated just because it exists? No
Just like how there's people that like Teapot, there's equally amount of people that do enjoy it and I'm part of that new niche of players. It's as big as Teapot players imo from what I've seen which isn't bad. I feel like i understand the hate much more because i was part of it but now that i look back i was stupid. Now just because this has satisfied me for endgame doesn't mean the game doesn't deserve more endgame casual as well as combat modes, we absolutely do and having more ain't bad. For people who like TCG they can play that, for people that like SU they can play that, just having more options ain't bad and I hope Hoyo has plans something for Genshin for this.
Sorry for it being too long but i just wanted to share a unique perspective and my total 180 of opinion about said gamemode that's hated by the community even though there's a niche audience, just like how there's an audience for the spiral abyss and more hard combat. TCG can exist whilst still asking for new combat modes, no need to ridicule something else just because you didn't get what you asked for (yes I'm a hypocrite)
No worries, thanks for sharing your thoughts! When the TCG was first announced, I was actually pretty excited for it. I played a lot of card games when I was younger and I was interested to see how Genshin combat mechanics would play their part in the game. I played quite a bit when it released and slowed down since then, not necessarily for lack of interest, but mostly because not many of my friends are involved with it. I still pick it back up from time to time when new cards drop just to check them out. I know it's not for a lot of people, but I do think it's more interesting than a lot of people give it credit for. Don't knock it 'til you try it, right?
TCG is not endgame content
Let's be real, the true endgame content of Genshin should just be different combinations of the Consecrated beasts all the way 👀, especially the Consecrated Fanged Beast & Consecrated Horned Crocodile...on floor 13+ 🌝
For me I would like something like labyrinth warriors event, back in 2.2. But it would have to be done right. It would be challenging enough for hardcore players but also duable for normal players with good builds by for example obtaining some kind of buffs by doing additional rooms with environmental puzzeles so in that way they also would be able to clear this content. And as of reward I would love to get a something like Fated Artifact Billet where we be able to acquire chosen piece of artifact with chosen main and substat. So players who do care about statistic finally would be able to get those precious 50CV+ artifs (without lunaticly and endlessly farming those ↓ƃuᴉʞɔnɟ↑ domains) and milkdrinkers would be also ok, cuz they didn't care in first place.
In the combat events section, you missed Feast of the Departed Warriors, which was similar to Vagabond but focused more on a tankier enemy with new mechanics rather than increasing player damage taken.
My speedrun group of friends and I felt very positive towards the event but among the posts of casuals we’d see people dying on max difficulty with a C6 Zhongli to others saying the event was too easy despite using minimum settings and then insisting that increasing the difficulty would be a waste of a time.
Maybe they’ll add permanent higher difficulty combat modes based on their other titles, but as long as I can use my own characters, I don’t really mind if new stuff gets added.
Yes! There were actually a few events I excluded, since they (mostly) reinforced the same point(s). I was aiming to keep the video on the shorter side, but failed miserably.
Lol
My idea for a floor 13 is the same difficulty as floor 12 but for chamber 1 they gonna put 2 bosses making them able to utilize reactions instead of being just a thing that gets applied to you when getting hit for chamber 2 a single upgraded boss with new move sets on each and then for chamber 3 you gonna be given the choice to pick 4 of the 8 characters on each side to make a team to face off against a single buffed up weekly boss or put whethering effect with now way to clean the whethering stacks or shear cold or balethunder
That could be kind of neat!
I'm of the mind that the entire "excessive anxiety" interview was pretty poorly-conducted and received, because they said that Spiral Abyss (and "similar modes") in particular cause anxiety and not "combat endgame" as a whole. I could see them going in a different direction with combat endgame that is both not anxiety-inducing and not too similar to Spiral Abyss.
But more importantly, I think the obvious solution to adding more rewards into the game would be to allow players to pick between Spiral Abyss and a new mode. They get the same rewards, but they can choose a different mode to do it with. Also waiting for a Divine Ingenuity rerun (or permanent mode) since that would completely satisfy me in terms of combat variety lol
I loved the Divine Ingenuity event! And I agree, an alternative to Spiral Abyss would be great for those that don't like it. Maybe one day....
well genshin is 95% causal players + it by the devs statment a causal open world gacha so adding difficult content in a casual game (somethign that extremely anti causal ) is bad and stupid it like asking for easy mode in souls game it will simple be middle finger the to the mayority of the player and insult the games overall genre.Casual play for the exploration ,story and build and gathering chrs to use in the open world that the real and only endgame of genshin IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT LEAVE you are not the target audience for this game .
Sorry for my english, I'll crave for a boss raid in coop. As you said, you don't need to get reward like primmogems or stuff, you can instead use your resin for it and get artefacts or other materials you need instead of doing dungeon. That way it makes the grinding more fun, and you can play with your firends .. They had 2 events like that where you have to kill a big boss, in 1.2 with the buffed cryo regisvine, and 2.4 with the ortell like boss. So something with a lot of HP that can tank 4 players, with specific pattern that you need to learn (as Azdaha when he arrived, it was so fun at that time) and something that can be very dangerous if you don't play safely.
I would love more co-op and big boss content! I hope to see more events like those run in the future, I enjoyed them thoroughly.
I think the modern combat events are taking the complete wrong approach. I wish that my characters did as much dmg as they normally would, and the gimic buff raised just raised the numbers. I dont want to fight an enemy with 99% resistance and only and only do as much Dmg as I normally do while the gimic is active, just for the enemy to die in 2 hits with my normal dmg.
I agree! Hitting something with too much resistance doesn't activate the neurons.
These are fun to listen to even tho I haven’t played genshin since 2.8
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you find my bitching entertaining xd
The problem I have with the Abyss is the time limit, I play FGO and that game has Challange quests at the end of each event and if it takes you 2 hours to clear, so be it. Thr Local Legends was a nice addition to the overworld and something similar in the Abyss that isnt tied to a time limit would be nice.
I'd love the idea of bigger bosses without necessarily imposing a time limit. I think the Abyss has it because it'd just become a survivability check otherwise. A lot of healing and shielding sources only come from your Elemental Skill, so it'd be pretty easy to sustain yourself as long as you don't die in one hit.
So glad you are starting to get the subs you deserve (tho it's not nearly enough yet)
I don't know if it's true or not, but when I hear Razor main, I subscribed. (As I'm also a Razor main, I can clear abyss 12 with his Thundering Furry team though.)
Razor was my first main, and he'll always hold a special place in my heart ♥
after pure fiction I think we can make something similar for genshin, My idea is 5 or 6 stages where you have a limit time to accumulate points, you will have a wave of enemies and every amount of enemies will summon a boss fight so people with broken units in there accounts can have fun, and for the people that only what the reward aka primogems only the first star will give primogems so everyones happy. also before each stage they will be a buff for the teams, so people can try new team or just play with the ones they have
It could be kinda neat! Honestly, I think I'd be happy with anything at this point xd
I love the combat in this game and how complex it is actually under the hood even though I only end up mashing buttons mindlessly every time. When that "excessive anxiety" article first appeared I think it was one of the catalysts that eventually led me to quit the game. The other was their constant TCG updates plus that infamous flagship event with it. I guess that's when I realized that I wasn't really the main demographic of the game anymore. I didn't bother with the World Quests (Aranara, Golden Slumber, etc.) and Story Quests. I didn't explore Sumeru since it was basically desert everywhere. To top it all off, after Nahidaa and Nilou there's essentially no character at the time that I looked forward to pulling for (Furina was way too far at that point, and Dehya is Dehya). Right now because of friends I went back and tried to play again and even though I feel that the game still lacks that endgame content I yearn for, at least Fontaine Archon quest and exploration isn't that bad as it was in Sumeru. Still the game has a lot of text bloat and I really find it annoying as hell. Main takeaway is if you can't resist not playing the game because of the fun you have with it, just try to vote with your wallet and hold it out until Hoyo truly deserves your money, 'coz for me it ain't anymore.
Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone and the game has its fair share of problems. Welcome back, though! I do hope you enjoy the game for as long as you decide to stick around. My comments in the video probably sound like they lean toward the negative side, but despite that, I still have a lot of fun.
"he will be dominated if you don't die."
"No sum game," fren
How to make good engame content? Simply make the rewards obtainable in a different way for lower skill players. Introducing: «Spiral Abyss: Moonlit Gauntlet», a mode focused a little more on skill expression than just building your characters right.
Every Abyss reset, a Moonlit Gauntlet is made available to everyone who has access to the Abyssal Moon Spire. This mode requires only a single team to clear, making it more accessible than, say, Floor 12. Each Moonlit Gauntlet starts off with 3 stages challenged consecutively, with the standard buffs to be obtained between levels, but also a «Lunar Phase Shift» that is a more powerful buff automatically enabled for all participants across all stages. This buff is dependent on the final, 4th stage, which is always either a Weekly Boss, or a World Boss with a more complex moveset. The newbie-friendliness comes from the fact that, if you fail, you can choose to re-enter the run on the same stage with an incremental attack, health and defence buff. About half of primogems is locked behind just clearing each stage, with about 30% locked behind clearing the entire gauntlet with 2, 1 and 0 retries and 20% locked behind clearing the gauntlet with 0 retries and within the time limits. Important note: The enemies have their health reduced and damage increased, to facilitate faster clears or fails and set a faster pace.
As an example: a Moonlit Gauntlet themed around the Liue fatui, so you fight 3 stages of fatui footsoldiers and then challenge Childe. Because it’s Childe week, you will get the Lunar Phase Shift: Golden House Special - “Using Elemental Skills increases movement speed and regenerates a chunk of Stamina. Using Elemental Burst creates a zone around you that slows enemies within it.” Childe gains two new attacks: a dash-slash attack where he charges up for a short duration and zooms towards you to deliver a series of slashes (active in Delusion and Foul Legacy forms) and a ranged attack where he fires 3 arrows on an arcing trajectory at your location, when the 3rd arrow lands, the marked location explodes (active in Vision and Foul Legacy forms).
Here's the thing though I would like a place to go fight some enemies and stuff with my well built teams. I just don't want it to be a time limit DPS check.
I want to take my time, heal and such then keep fighting not be stopped by an arbitrary time limit.
Lmaoo, Dont get me wrong, but seeing your such detailed analysis really makes me think that you are a part of MiHoYo itself lol..
Really DEEP and INFORMATIVE ANALYSIS!!
Im glad that TH-cam recommended this to me, and it should to others too, bcoz thats what most people NEEDS TO LEARN Why "GENSHIN COULD NEVER" and stay away from only one side of the people who only knows how to complain without giving the enough reason why they are complaining and what they can do to make it better.
I would Genshin still needs "MORE ENDGAME CONTENT", but yeahh i think they dont need to, or maybe they have better plans for it, maybe in future, im still COPING that THEY WILL ADD IT IN NATLAN CUZ OF NATION OF WAR THEME xDDD
Thank you once again, really enjoyed the video, cant wait for another future analysis of yours now lol ❤✨
Don't get too excited, these last few videos wrinkled my brain. I kinda just wanna go back to simping for somebody... xd
@@ALittleSIMPle lol don't worry you are doing alright. And Yeaa I can see you really put a lot of effort in making this, from voice to editing to analysis and scripting, all seems PERFECT! 💯✨
Anyways, we are going to get 2 ladies to Simp soon too lol- Acheron and Chiori xD 😏😳
i like exploration but it got annoying after sumeru release now I just want to battle with the units I have but there is nothing aside of abyss which sucks
just make a spiral-abyss-like mode that lets you get the same reward(s) regardless of how well you do; hi3rd does that (as well as genshin itself to some degree in most combat oriented events (where primos are by far the easiest and most important to obtain of the rewards))
id love it if it were roguelike, ideally like that one event where you get given a set of characters to pick from (rather than raw buffs since those are kinda boring and dont generally impact strategy which is a huge thing for me)
My fingers are crossed for another roguelike to pop up in the future. I really liked the last one we got so many moons ago...
awesome vid, hopefully you get a chance to see this comment! I got into genshin since launch and endgame is just kind of it's own non-existant bag of worms. I try to collect everyone at c0 and hate going for 5 star cons cuz I want new gameplay from new units rather than new clear times from maximizing them. (the only exception being dehya who i c6r1'd on release because she is my favorite character in ALMOST all of gacha gaming).
i am curious to what you would've thought about a gacha called king's raid if it still existed(well i mean...it does still "exist" but its a shell of its former self and has been on maintenance mode for the past like 3 years now). it was weird in how it basically did the opposite of almost every gacha game with most of its systems but still was very well executed minus the bugs and is still one of my favorite gachas of all time to the point that i didn't play most gachas before it died because everything else seemed overwhelmingly stingy in comparison. if you're interested in hearing how it worked i'd love to give a breakdown but i'd completely understand if u had 0 desire to hear about it. but i personally always found it interesting how they did so many things other gacha games didn't or didn't do(for better and worse but mostly better) nearly as often but still worked very well.
I think aiming for a variety of characters is the way that keeps things feeling the freshest. Also, C6 Dehya is based. You earn a heart.
I never played King's Raid, but I did take a few minutes to look up some information. It looks pretty neat, but I'm sad to hear it isn't doing so well. I imagine the gacha economy to be quite tough, it seems to require a lot of careful balancing. If you'd like to tell me about your experience with it, I certainly won't stop you! But also, don't feel obligated to, I wouldn't want to take up too much of your time xd
@@ALittleSIMPle its the very opposite, i type too damn much because of high WPM so what feels like 3 sentences worth of time for me ends up being more like 2 wall of text length paragraphs and then i get made fun of for being a yapper XD. so i didn't wanna talk your head off!
@@DaiPai1777 I'm glad you responded, because I realize I forgot the heart. I'm still adjusting to TH-cam life and there are a lot of comments I'm reading through, but I do enjoy reading them nonetheless! I wouldn't worry too much about yapping xd
alright, if you say so....TD;LR at bottom cuz...jesus this is a long boi.
it was a semi-side scrolling cooldown based action rpg with a team of either 4 6 or 8 units depending on the content. i say "semi" side scrolling because some content you were stationary. for one thing it WASN'T a character gacha. you could obtain any unit you wanted for completely free by either buying them with premium currency(which dropped like candy btw even endgame, it wasn't like honeymoon phase and then dried up well later) or you could obtain them with 0 cost by filling up a bar for them that took 2-3 weeks of irl time based on the rarity of the unit. it was very reasonable to obtain literally every character in the game. also one of the big appeals of the game was the amount of damage you could do. easily reaching millions or even billions of dps as if it was an idle game, but in real time. very dopamine rush
the main gacha was the unique, character kit defining gear that only that specific character could equip. so you might think hey that just seems like a super exploitable system since the gear could use dupes to become stronger and such which would make fully gearing a character very expensive. and the answer was yesn't. it might sound crazy, but it was actually completely doable get a character to end game levels of investment character without ever touching the gacha gear banner at all, though naturally that would take quite a while and would be more of an endgame viable thing. and the reason for that was because all gacha items were obtainable throughout basically the entire game lol. end game farming content let you farm exclusive gear selection tickets, pvp was pretty easy to climb to a mid-high rank even as a newer player where you got a nice income of premium currency that didn't feel like pennies, and you could use the pvp currency for gear selection tickets as well. so what was the monetary incentive you might wonder to cause people to swipe? well that was its most controversial mechanic which is how you used dupes of gear to make your units stronger. it used a chance based system like an mmorpg enhancing system. the max rank for a piece of gear was 5. if you used a 0 exclusive gear dupe as material for raising another 0* exlcusive gear it was a 100% chance of it becoming 1. if you used a 0 to try to raise a 1* you had a 50% chance of it becoming 2. and so on going as 100-50-25-10-1%. if u wanted to go the guaranteed route you'd need 32 dupes of a weapon to have a fully 100% no risk way of getting a 5*. and each unit had 5 pieces of exclusive equipment so have fun with that lol. most people risked it as there was a fail bonus system as well and on average if you followed the standard least risk method it was more like a range of needing 7-10 dupes which is much more reasonable than 32 and also for the games economy 7-10 was more than reasonable if you were getting it through pure grind since you aren't giving the company money. also even though each character had 5 pieces of exclusive gear, you only really wanted 2 or 3 of them maxed at most(1 of which being their exclusive weapon and then the other 1 or 2 being their exclusive treasures which were basically special additional effects/augments to 1 of the 4 skills the gear pertained to.) unless u were either a whale or wanted to invest HARD into 4 particular units for pvp to min-max their stat lines.
as for gameplay mechanics, each character had 3 active abilities and 1 passive usually, though some characters had swap based skills that could switch between modes. like a support unit called juno whose first skill was an aoe heal to the party in her nice form but dealt aoe damage over time to enemies in her evil form and she could swap by using her third skill. most kits were pretty unique without a lot of overlap which was impressive since there was 101 characters iirc. speaking of which the designs were amazing. with a wide variety of body types, ages, tropes, personalities, and racial diversity. there were hot muscle men, ara ara mommies, must protecc smol ones, fuggly dwarfs, and more, literally something for everyone lol.
end game was really fun, there was a ton of different game modes. Shakmeh was an auto battler style thing which was the main source of farming exclusive weapon ticket fragments, but you also had raid's for different gear sets. and they actually were like boss battle raids where it was big bosses with huge health bars and lots of mechanics that you had to form a team around. gearing was very chill though (unlike Epic Seven which was probably its main competitor). it was lots of rng yes, but no flat stats, and also you could dismantle gear for dust to make gear selection tickets that let you choose up to 3 out of the 4 substats on a piece of gear. and we also had easy to acquire tickets that let you reroll the 4th stat an infinite amount of times! so getting a perfectly rolled character was only a matter of time, similar to an mmorpg. there was also god king trials which was how you got the end game weapon progression. how i touched on exclusive gear before, their weapons are called unique weapons. and you did god king trials to unlock their soul weapons, which was basically a unique weapon....for their unique weapon...in the form of a jojo stand and no im not joking LOL. but the biggest end game battle was divine punishment raid. and damn was it cool. you were basically doing what felt like an actual MMORPG style raid(though solo) where there was a laundry list of buffs and debuffs on your character and the boss and you had to micromanage all the mechanics and one or two mistakes resulted in an instant wipe, it was brutal but really really satisfying to clear. (just as an example of divine punishment raid, a few of the mechanics: there's a frost counter on your team that reaches up to 7 stacks. if it reaches 7 it freezes your units and dispels ALL of their buffs. so you need to manage the cooldowns of 2 or 3 party wide clensers to rotate them properly. there's a hitcount mechanic on the boss where if it takes 70 instances of damage(meaning multi hit skills ramp it up FAST) it shoots down lightning that interrupts your casting and increases your cooldowns per strike that hits them so you also have to constantly cycle a dispeller to remove the stacks from the boss. also the boss has a phase when it gets low enough hp that it'll wipe your party if you don't bring its CC bar down to 0 and you have a very short amount of time to do it. also the boss has like 75% crit resistance so you need to bring crit buffers or crit resistance reducers. and the list goes on. it really was like an MMORPG raid lol)
pvp was also fun(i actually hit rank 1 champion on my server in one of the seasons lol.) it was real time vs another player and while it was a battle of wallets at higher rank, since everyone could get a maxed character super easily you'd eventually be on par with a whale in the standard 4v4 battle in terms of investment even as f2p. the global draft pick pvp is a different story so i wont touch on that since you need like over 18+ fully built units if u want to even stand a chance lol, that was where the true wallet warriors went, though i did reach grandmaster there but never touched challenger league.
the story was pretty alright. was quite generic and forgettable early at launch but it got better and better through the years as the writing team gained more experience. and it ended off on quite a high note during the last quarter or so. the music was also solid, but nothing groundbreaking. few bangers here and there though.
as i said earlier premium currency income was very generous. to the point where something that would be considered purely a whale event in any other game was totally completable f2p every time it came around pretty easily, which was a premium currency spending event where you could spend up to 50k of the currency to gain bonus rewards.
on that same note, in the energy of GENSHIN COULD NEVER, really most gachas could never; the stamina system was a joke. I kid you not it was very easy to amass MILLIONS of stamina at any point of the game and stages only cost in ranges of like 15-120 depending on the stage. i honestly dont even know why they had the stam system in place cuz it basically doesn't exist.
finally the skins, oml the skins. they were all purchasable purely with premium currency, no direct monetary purchases which would be seen as predatory in most other games but again with how generous the currency income was it was actually pretty easy to get skins for your entire roster. also it had one of the best skin systems in gacha gaming, as you could mix and match different parts of the skins with other skins for the unit. so if you like the weapon skin from Kasel skin A, the hair style from Kasel skin C, and the outfit from Kasel Skin B, you could use them all together! on top of additional purchasable accessories to make the character more unique to you.
i adored this game, i poured almost 6 years of my life, time, money, and connections in that game. and there will never be another gacha game like it imo, cuz if any of them tried now it would instantly flop in terms of profits with how generous it is. which makes its downfall all the more painful. the game was already kinda having a huge lull state for a year, no events, or any major updates really. and then came the death blow that literally killed the game overnight and im not using gamer exaggeration. i mean the game LITERALLY died overnight, losing most of the dedicated playerbase and forcing the company to file for bankruptcy.
The update basically made everyone's gear useless as they either nerfed, removed, changed, or shifted all the set effects, chopped off entire functions/ unique skills from characters kits, slowed mana gain to a crawl, added initial cooldowns to your units, added a new layer of rng to enhancing your weapon by doing the literal worst thing imaginable and going the Korean MMORPG route of having your exclusive gear drop down a level if the enhancement fails, and personally worst of all they gutted all the base stats and damage values/ scaling. My favorite part of the game was taking my favorite characters, going into a raid and seeing how ridiculously funni the numbers got (we're talking about your dps character doing literally billions of dps end game and extremely high investment) cuz it was the fun of real time cooldown based combat with the over the top insanity of damage values of an idle game. Yes I'd even still slightly consider playing even with all that insanity if they just didn't remove my big funni numbers but that was the last straw seeing the character you've spent weeks if not months or YEARS investing into go from dealing 5,000,000,000 dps to 50,000 overnight, with not a sembalance of their old kit really remaining, they are a husk just like the game.
TD;LR: gacha part of gacha game wasn't really a requirement at all to reach end game and you could aquire all characters in the game for completely free. the main swiping point was getting dupes for character exclusive gear as you needed many to max it out and maxing out certain gear was mandatory for every unit. stamina system was a joke where you could have millions of it with stages usually costing less than 100 to even only like 20. skins were amazing as they had a mix and match system which let you take your favorite part of invidiual skins from a character and merge them together, and all bought with premium currency. premium currency was extremely easy to aquire and came generously to the point that what would be considered a whale event(premium currency spending event) could be done and maxed by f2p players pretty reasonably. end game content was varied, similar to an MMORPG, especially the hardest content being actually challenging and requiring you to use all your game knowledge and skill. you were able to reach challenger rank pvp on the non-global mode completely f2p fairly reasonably by investing into a dedicated 4 unit pvp team(and most units were good in both pvp and pve.). game then started to fall off because of poor financial and development decisions leading to game going into hospice for like a year straight before releasing an update that basically thanos snapped 80% of the dedicated playerbase(probably closer to like 95% tbh) and now the game is a shell of its former self, might as well be better off used as just a character viewing game rather than playing it now.
TD;LR for the TD;LR: game was good, then it was bad.
thanks for coming to my ted talk. @ALittleSIMPle
i want the labyrinth warriors as endgame, it is similar to simulated universe from star rail and they do so much for endgame. Give us a spiral abyss that let you multiplayer, give us a spiral abyss focused on many enemys like "pure fiction" in star rail. I would love to have higher abyss rooms not being harder but you need 3-4 teams. What about a new endgame that has an energie system like in some events you can use each Unit only once making less valuable units not useless since you can´t use kazuha everytime or nahida
There are a lot of things they can do! Hoping the rise of new competition forces them to do something about it...
Make dungeons like that Labyrinth one but add local legends or extremely strong characters from local lore manifest within them like for example previously dead characters or enemies of past, just make it similar to BOTW's master sword trials but this time the only benefit is primogems or other smaller rewards but we also get to know about their lore too and make sure that if you loose once you can't respawn but rather need to start from the beginning this way it makes it better also make then enemies run towards you if they notice you
Fingers crossed they do something interesting in the future! They have a lot of things set up, I'm sure they've got ideas somewhere...
the worst thing tho is that all of those events are temporary
An action rpg but the "action" is silent
I also see the argument of Hoyo wanting you to be bored. Genshin has the largest audience and is what attracts people to Hoyo's games usually, but the game just runs out of content from time to time and the most invested players don't have anything to do, but those ghost versions not going that well isn't a big concern, they can focus on the important ones and schedule their other titles updates to fill the gap in content, and thus feeding both fanbases. The discussion about how star rail gives better rewards probably is good foi Hoyo, brings attention to the title, especially from frustrated genshin players that will get 55 wishes on the next patch
"No such thing as bad publicity", right? I bet all the arguments are good for getting their titles on people's radar xd
@@ALittleSIMPle and both communities kill each other arguing wich game is better while Hoyo gets their money anyway
well genshin is 95% causal players + it by the devs statment a causal open world gacha so adding difficult content in a casual game (somethign that extremely anti causal ) is bad and stupid it like asking for easy mode in souls game it will simple be middle finger the to the mayority of the player and insult the games overall genre.Casual play for the exploration ,story and build and gathering chrs to use in the open world that the real and only endgame of genshin IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT LEAVE you are not the target audience for this game .
@@anteprs7908 tf bro, ill play what i want. Who are you to say someone is playing right or wrong? People play the way that they have most fun doing it. That argument is as good as saying to you to leave the video because this is a video for people frustrated by hoyos decision and thereby not for you
@@anteprs7908 btw HSR is also tagged as casual by Hoyo and do get frequent endgame content regularly to appeal to a larger audience. People who just play for the story and characters just are not forced to play at all, the game just gives more resources so that f2ps dont get the feeling that they are missing out on rewards from the more difficult content
Will see what Hoyo cook for 4.7 , if you watch leaks it will be surprising especially abyss change one
I'm looking forward to it! The timing for this video's release was actually somewhat unfortunate, MiHoYo put out job applications for user-generated content like, a couple of days later, and recent new Abyss leaks have been popping up in the past week or two, so you can imagine how silly that makes me feel xd Could definitely lead to a future discussion topic, though!
I really loved Labyrinth Warriors and I miss it every patch it's gone. It was a crown event so it itself is never gonna rerun, but I wish they'd at least rip the gameplay into a permanent gamemode. I was pretty new to the game when it ran, so the combat was too hard for me to fully enjoy, but even then I had so much fun with the event!
And I LOVE those custom boss events. I hate the ones that *seem* custom by letting you choose your buffs, but then all the buffs focus on the trial character and end up limiting your team and reaction comps. I much prefer being able to tune my enemy and challenge to my strength and wants rather than just buffing my characters.
They were a lot of fun! I'm hoping at least something similar comes back in the (near) future. Glad to see you enjoy them, too!
Tbh the Narwhal example is hilarious because if you bruteforce the 1st phase fast enough you can just skip the 2nd and 3rd ones entirely.
You can! I chose not to for the video example because I needed footage of the other two phases xd
@@ALittleSIMPle For me it's usually Hu Tao teams, Yoi teams or Navia teams that destroy the whale in no time. :D
Bruh i almost forgot about that guy the geo knight from chasm yeah they should make more exclusive mob in abyss
I miss him. Baby, come back.
I think the most satisfying thing about Genshin's combat is, emm....how do I phrase it? "A real-time Pokemon like combat?"
At least learning the boss's attack pattern like a souls-like game, constantly dodging, parrying, and finding your own attack opportunities is not one of the main "enjoyment" of Genshin's combat.
This actually shows that the endgame of Genshin's battle system has a foreseeable "upper limit" just like Pokemon. Apart from making the boss more tanky and making the boss's mechanics and art design more attractive, there is basically nothing more that can be added.
The second thing is that this kind of combat system based on stats, if the difficulty of the endgame is not relatively easy, there will be a very big problem with Powercreep.
I think Triumphant Frenzy in 4.4 is quite fun, and it’s very suitable to introduce elemental reactions and team comp to Genshin players who are not too engaged in the combat system. But judging from community feedback, many people don't even like this event, so don't even think about a more hardcore endgame.
But actually I think the most important thing is that according to the dev team themselves, less than 10% of the players want more diverse and more difficult combat gameplay.(Source: I forgot where I saw it, I will add it when I find it someday.)
I do believe there's not a lot of interest for higher level combat. It certainly isn't for everyone. I'll just lament in the corner.
I think a key issue here is maybe everyone is too fixated on "anxiety" in the form of FOMO and other ways of pressuring players. Maybe we need to take a step back and consider if this is actually Hoyo's main marketing tactic at all?
Think about it - on one hand they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on out-of-game immersion, such as shorts (both live-action and animated), musical recitals, concerts and collabs with professionals. Why? To build a connection with players of course. People will pull for characters that are strong, yes. But in today's context, people are also more than happy to pull for characters they like and want. Which ties in to my next point which is..
Player choice, agency and control. The FOMO concept assumes that there are absolutely no push factors that oppose FOMO, which is not a fair judgement to make. Nowadays, with the rising general cost of living people are also getting smarter and smarter with their finances. Sure, there may be players who do spend on impulse and make bad decisions, but I'm certain that the reasonable assumption here is that for the younger audience like kids and students, they do not have nearly enough spending power, and for the older audience like working adults, we are capable of just saying no to FOMO. No one likes doing something against their wishes, and FOMO is just that - a fear. It doesn't feel good to spend due to FOMO and I'm certain a company like Hoyo knows that. This loops straight back to my former point, that they have absolutely got to "sell" their game, characters, regions etc. the conventional way, by making players like what they see.
If anything, I actually think that of all the gacha game companies out there, Hoyo is in the most apt place to put out this kind of statement saying they do not want player anxiety.
I think I'm picking up what you're putting down, you have some good points! My thinking was limited to within the confines of the game, and what you're saying regarding external factors makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
6:03 was SMOOTH ASF
I think all the endgame content people have suggested and the ones you covered yourself are perfectly good addition. As someone else suggested, the difficulty could be between floor 11 and 12. It doesn't need to be more difficult. And while the gameplay is still mildly similar, its fine as that's the core Genshin mechanic. It still however is a different flavor. I personally do not like spiral abyss. I don't like timed content that much. I like high damage bosses where I dodge, but genshin's healers and shielders are over tuned so there's no incentive to play that way. Timers also prevent you from playing that way entirely.
I also am of the opinion new endgame contne should not give rewards. Or at least not primogems, it can give random stuff like EXP or billets. Those are useful but msot endgamep layers don't give af, but it's something, I guess. And first-time clear primogems seems fine.
As for development time, they already had those events. So, they can just make it permanent in some form with little investment necessary. Sure, engagement may be small among the playerbase but it doesn't really take away from anyone, there's only benefits if implemented properly as laid out above.
Your videos are very good. Remember me when you're famous.
In my opinion it ties up to the entire genshin system. The fact is, it takes a lot of time to max out the unit due to resin restiction which also means that people with lower level unit won't try the abyss due to their units not strong enough to clear it with 36 stars. The artifacts add extra level of RNG over it. Also the rewards from clearing the abyss floor 12 is just 150 primos which is not even enough for 1 wish so most of us don't think it's worth to clear it. I personally do clear till floor 11 but most of the time just the buffs changes between each reset not the enemies which also means I can just use the same comp to clear it.
If they increase the resin cap and allow players to build units to their max in less time with more rewards on clearing the abyss (such as more primos or self modelling artifact) then I think many people will love to try the abyss.
Unfortunately increasing the resin cap won't allow for people to build units faster, it just means you have more time before you need to log in again. They'd have to increase the rate at which resin is generated, or give us more Fragile/Transient Resin or resin-earned materials. I do agree that building units can feel painfully slow.
Spiral Abyss (9-12) being a little out of reach of newer players makes sense since it's endgame combat, if it was clearable too early, then it'd be way too easy for people with older accounts. Floors 1-8 are pretty accessible early on, and they encourage players to try it, since there are free units you can obtain (Xiangling and Collei). They're just not repeatable since those lower stages become (extra) tedious for players at higher investment. It just kind of seems that the higher floors are intended to be optional, since, as you said, the rewards are pretty paltry xd By the game's design, it's not catered towards the people who really want to stretch their (combat) legs.
Thanks for your comment, I enjoyed thinking about it!
@@ALittleSIMPle I was also referring to more daily resin similar to the HSR. It's really easy to max the character traces within couple weeks of farming in HSR and in my opinion if overworld bosses start costing 30 resin per run and we get 240 resin cap daily with functionality to auto condense resin, I think many people will start appreciating the process of character building and it may eventually lead them to try the difficult levels of abyss thus generating more people playing it every abyss cycle.
Also what are your thoughts about roguelike mode in Wuthering Waves CBT2? If genshin does something on the same level during Natlan that might be a great way to introduce the Arena of the Never Ending War.
@@aksman100 I actually don't have an opinion of it, yet. I didn't get into the Wuthering Waves beta and most of my recent time has been consumed by picking up TH-cam, so I haven't been watching very many people play. I haven't had the chance to see the system work, but I'll absolutely try it when it launches!
I find it very weird that they don't want to add harder contents. As a former whale, the time that I whaled the most was when I first started playing. I whaled for a bunch of constellations and weapons early on because I couldn't beat the harder contents in the game. I started the game in v3.3 but by around v3.7/3.8, I basically have no reason to whale for characters unless I somehow really really like the character since c6 yelan clears abyss too easily. Now adays just having welkin+battle pass gives me enough to pull for who I want.
I'd still be whaling consistently if there were harder contents that requires me to pull for more characters (even if I have no interest in their design/personality). I'd imagine there are quite some other paying players who experienced the same?
The roguelike event and level maker should really just be permanent.
I agree! I had a lot of fun with those events!
I would definitely like a Pure Fiction mode in Genshin NOW.....!!!!!
I would love a mode that just has endless little goobers I can bully. Kind of like earlier Spiral Abyss floors, but just... more xd
@@ALittleSIMPle Naah man I have killed more than enough Hillis and Treasure hoarders I want a new batch of healthy enemies to bully...🤣🤣 Natlan is a nation of war and we also know that Mare Jivari is located somewhere there so I hope and cope that we do get some form of a new endgame mode maybe a mode where U need to bring 3 different teams instead of the usual 2, It will be really great for us old players who now have way too many characters but most of them are benched...!!!
It's not probably... It's definitely
If I have said what may be one of the main reason why they might not add endgame or more endgame stuff, in my opinion it could be because of the working class people.
Because to me having to even spend time to play Genshin is already hurdle if i didn't have a day off from work to effectively clear everything as my pincushion i would've dropped Genshin due to time restraint. I know some don't even have a day off play genshin so their life is probably worst then i do.
It's also possible! Genshin can take up a large portion of time. That's another reason I thought no rewards might be an okay idea, so if you don't have the time, you really don't lose out on anything.
also becuase the game is causal open world gacha stated and market by devs and casual game dont have challanging content .
if the game feels like a 2nd job then you should play something else. Like do you enjoy genshin at the moment?
@@sakutaro3musik486 I play all 4 of my Gacha Apathetically but it doesn`t mean i have to quit them.
Because that is how the majority play any game.
All gachas need endgame content. If you can't do it, don't do it. We don't care.