Yeah OS/2 might be more technically advanced but the amount of applications available for Windows 95 came out I switched as well. Windows 95 worked well enough for me to leave the OS/2 camp.
I saw your video on extracting MS-DOS from windows 2000 and kind of walked away not sure how to feel about it. It felt like you did a lot of running in place without a concise takeaway from it. But after seeing how your videos build on one another I love it. Keep it up man.
0:44: Actually, this is only half true. Netware for OS/2 shows MVDM is actually pretty capable to run full operating systems inside it. Is just you have to write support and drivers for it (in the form of PDD OS/2 kernel support modules and OS/2 VDM drivers, alonside a few base drivers and patches for your guest OS). Would be more correct to say MVDM can't run unmodified OSs on it. A similar case happens with Merge386/Win4Lin v4 on UNIX/Linux. You should explore both Netware for OS/2 and Merge386 technologies.
I don't think my statement contradicts with what you're actually saying. By full hardware abstraction I mean it specifically in context of technologies like present-day VMware, Hyper-V and such, or contemporary technologies like SoftPC. The DOS virtual machines of the time (NT's NTVDM, OS/2s MVDM, even Win3x/9x DOS VDM) are something different. But that doesn't mean, they're not capable at all. Your statements about the driver's customization, or even running Novell Netware, are fully correct. Though I'm tempted to say, you missed my previous video on this topic, Check it out at th-cam.com/video/7EbvxH9BXYQ/w-d-xo.html Because in there I demonstrate running other DOS versions, and even CP/M inside OS/2's MVDM, including some of the hardware-related pitfalls. A good example to your statement about custom drivers is the need for a tailored HIMEM.SYS, in order to overcome the A20 gate restrictions, as the MVDM, as opposed to a full hardware abstraction and virtualization, doesn't get an emulated A20, but at the same time, is not allowed to access the hardware's native A20 gate.
Never used that feature when I mained OS/2 Warp 4. It was one of those things that no one knew it existed. I believe that most dual booted or used NVDM exclusively.
Windows 95 in the 950 OEM Upgrade Release also had the ability to use progman instead of explorer - so it looked similar to windows 3.11 (with modern window layout).
That was retained in the setup program of all the OSR1/2.x versions of Windows 95, too. Windows 98 and Me have the functionality, if you edit system.ini to use progman.exe as the shell, but the setup program doesn't offer a convenient switch anymore.
@@mikeonthecomputer My Win98 doesnt have progman.exe installed. I guess there are more steps needed, because my Win95 was using program.exe as shell, so Win98 deleted the file. Regarding OSR2, no idea, never had Win 95b or 95c.
I don't think that matters because Win9x is effectively Windows in 386 enhanced mode and Win32s... which I don't think can run in OS/2. I may be wrong tho.
That's a good question, and in order to answer it fully, I would need to deliver some benchmarks and a video I guess ;-) But generally, the V86 mode doesn't restrict you in speed per se, so you're not suddenly running at 4.7 MHz of the original 8086/8088 CPUs, but at your native CPU clock rate. There may be a small drop in performance, because of the overhead imposed by the host OS, but that is generally neglegible, at least for "well-behaved" applications. Now, "well-behaved" in that sense, that they used the DOS API. Many old DOS apps however bypassed DOS and accessed the hardware directly to improve speed. Well known examples are serial file transfer applications, like Laplink, etc. So these either won't run at all in a DOS VDM, independent on OS/2, Win3x/9x, or NT. Or, they really run slow, as they had to detect that direct hardware access was not possible, and then fallback to the DOS API. In such a scenario, the performance impact would become immediately visible.
How good are the German translations for your operating systems? in my experience, OSs translations to my country language (Spanish) are really awful, all of them. DOS and Linux probably the worst, but Windows is really bad too. I had to switch to English, even for smarphones and other interfaces like smart TVs, that's how bad they all are.
Bah, don't ask. We get fancy things like "Systemabschluss" (that's what the simple "Shutdown" is called in OS/2 in german). Software translations sometimes are really ......
@@THEPHINTAGECOLLECTORYou can run quake 3 arena windows version on os/2 warp 4 and even in 3 with fix pack forty two or three i don't remember exactly.
I was a heavy OS/2 user from 1993-1995... but when Windows95 came out... that was it.
Yeah OS/2 might be more technically advanced but the amount of applications available for Windows 95 came out I switched as well. Windows 95 worked well enough for me to leave the OS/2 camp.
I love these OS/2 vids so much! Keep up the great work!
Guess I need to do some more then ;)
I saw your video on extracting MS-DOS from windows 2000 and kind of walked away not sure how to feel about it. It felt like you did a lot of running in place without a concise takeaway from it. But after seeing how your videos build on one another I love it. Keep it up man.
Thank you!
Glad you came back then!
0:44: Actually, this is only half true. Netware for OS/2 shows MVDM is actually pretty capable to run full operating systems inside it. Is just you have to write support and drivers for it (in the form of PDD OS/2 kernel support modules and OS/2 VDM drivers, alonside a few base drivers and patches for your guest OS). Would be more correct to say MVDM can't run unmodified OSs on it.
A similar case happens with Merge386/Win4Lin v4 on UNIX/Linux. You should explore both Netware for OS/2 and Merge386 technologies.
I don't think my statement contradicts with what you're actually saying.
By full hardware abstraction I mean it specifically in context of technologies like present-day VMware, Hyper-V and such, or contemporary technologies like SoftPC.
The DOS virtual machines of the time (NT's NTVDM, OS/2s MVDM, even Win3x/9x DOS VDM) are something different.
But that doesn't mean, they're not capable at all.
Your statements about the driver's customization, or even running Novell Netware, are fully correct.
Though I'm tempted to say, you missed my previous video on this topic,
Check it out at th-cam.com/video/7EbvxH9BXYQ/w-d-xo.html
Because in there I demonstrate running other DOS versions, and even CP/M inside OS/2's MVDM, including some of the hardware-related pitfalls.
A good example to your statement about custom drivers is the need for a tailored HIMEM.SYS, in order to overcome the A20 gate restrictions, as the MVDM, as opposed to a full hardware abstraction and virtualization, doesn't get an emulated A20, but at the same time, is not allowed to access the hardware's native A20 gate.
Glad I came across your channel. I like watching your videos as I like experimenting with computers too
Never used that feature when I mained OS/2 Warp 4. It was one of those things that no one knew it existed. I believe that most dual booted or used NVDM exclusively.
because your videos are all good, you got an instalike!
Steven use OS/2 all of the time on his IBM PC. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands
Windows 95 in the 950 OEM Upgrade Release also had the ability to use progman instead of explorer - so it looked similar to windows 3.11 (with modern window layout).
That was retained in the setup program of all the OSR1/2.x versions of Windows 95, too.
Windows 98 and Me have the functionality, if you edit system.ini to use progman.exe as the shell, but the setup program doesn't offer a convenient switch anymore.
@@mikeonthecomputer My Win98 doesnt have progman.exe installed. I guess there are more steps needed, because my Win95 was using program.exe as shell, so Win98 deleted the file.
Regarding OSR2, no idea, never had Win 95b or 95c.
@@Jerrec 98 and Me includes the program. You gave to delete it to not have it.
I don't think that matters because Win9x is effectively Windows in 386 enhanced mode and Win32s... which I don't think can run in OS/2. I may be wrong tho.
If it uses the virtual 8086 mode, what is the performance of DOS applications in the virtual DOS machine within OS/2?
That's a good question, and in order to answer it fully, I would need to deliver some benchmarks and a video I guess ;-)
But generally, the V86 mode doesn't restrict you in speed per se, so you're not suddenly running at 4.7 MHz of the original 8086/8088 CPUs, but at your native CPU clock rate.
There may be a small drop in performance, because of the overhead imposed by the host OS, but that is generally neglegible, at least for "well-behaved" applications.
Now, "well-behaved" in that sense, that they used the DOS API.
Many old DOS apps however bypassed DOS and accessed the hardware directly to improve speed.
Well known examples are serial file transfer applications, like Laplink, etc.
So these either won't run at all in a DOS VDM, independent on OS/2, Win3x/9x, or NT.
Or, they really run slow, as they had to detect that direct hardware access was not possible, and then fallback to the DOS API.
In such a scenario, the performance impact would become immediately visible.
i moved to the Linux world from Os/2 world
How good are the German translations for your operating systems? in my experience, OSs translations to my country language (Spanish) are really awful, all of them. DOS and Linux probably the worst, but Windows is really bad too. I had to switch to English, even for smarphones and other interfaces like smart TVs, that's how bad they all are.
Bah, don't ask.
We get fancy things like "Systemabschluss" (that's what the simple "Shutdown" is called in OS/2 in german).
Software translations sometimes are really ......
As It so happens back then i use Odin32
Unfortunately, and just as with ReactOS, its support is still very crude, and doesn't match what Wine can do on Linux.
Remember odin32 was created when wine was a meh. The main problem of reactos is Windows drivers of course.
@@asanjuashmmm ... just reminding me of ReactOS. I didn't look into this one again since a few years.
@@hyoenmadanAdmittedly, I never used ODIN, as by the time it came, I had already moved along to 95 and NT4.
@@THEPHINTAGECOLLECTORYou can run quake 3 arena windows version on os/2 warp 4 and even in 3 with fix pack forty two or three i don't remember exactly.