Slight correction: The power for a 250 kW Supercharger is not necessarily enough for 10 25 kW chargers. The power is shared between superchargers, since charging rate is limited by the cars/battery, so there is no need to have the electronics and power supply for all the Superchargers at a site to be working at 250 kW at the same time. For 25 kW charging, almost all the cars/batteries will be capable of drawing 25 kW, so sharing power does not give you an investment saving without significantly sacrificing charging speed when most of the stalls are occupied. So about 5 or 6-ish 25 kW charging pads for a 250 kW Supercharger. Or so. Roughly.
I believe for cybercabs, Tesla will plan its deployment according to peak demand as predicted by James douma. Hence, most cars will be underutilized, and thus they will have plenty of time to charge - charging speed will not be as critical. They only have to make sure all the cybercabs have sufficient charge during peak hours.
Angled parking and parallel parking would be problem if vehicle charging pad location is not standardized. Putting ground pad near curb makes sense since vehicle length can vary, but backing into angled spot has its problems.
Maybe the parking spots in question would be rebuilt for straight parking when the chargers are to be installed. Or the chargers will be installed in other spaces.
...in your opinion. I prefer it that way myself, but I can see that the sideways precision of the end of the vehicle going in first will be better on average if a randomly selected driver goes in forwards, which was the issue in question.
I think for Optimus it makes a lot of sense to have a normal, short power lead. That way, it can continue to work on the tether, and it can plug in literally everywhere.
I was of the understanding that Qi chargers were also resonant chargers where both the coils operate at a constant resonant frequency. Maybe they're talking about being able to tune the resonance with various capacitor banks like in some RFID readers. This will let you increase the Q (basically the peakiness) of the receiving and transmitting coils.
IMHO the cybercab fleet will be owned and operated by Tesla, and rolled out city by city in tandem with wireless charging. First cities covered will be the cities that Cruise and Waymo have been operating in as these municipalities have already greenlit the regulatory approvals for autonomous ride hailing. It will be interesting to see how much market share each company can capture. . . .
@@andrasbiro3007 It would keep up for a short while. Those are some big cities. It will not be dominating the traffic in New Delhi two seconds after it starts production. Some patience is required.
If the Optimus had wireless charging in its feet then it could stand on the charging pad while continuing to work. This would be useful for any type of work where the robot doesn't move much from its workstation.
It's always possible that Tesla owners can "opt-in" to the wireless charging network (and get paid), so robotaxis can charge on their pads in the driveway...
Спасибо за интересное видео. Мы в 2018 году на беспилотный электробус хотели поставить беспроводную зарядку , но отказались от этой идеи (точнее отложили это решение).
For "in road" wireless charging to be feasible - it requires places where cars stop regularly and predictably. The cost for continuous road wireless charging would be ridiculous. Road costs are high enough - without adding additional layers of technical complexity. Traffic lights are an obvious place where "several" wireless charging spots could be sited. Power is there (traffic lights ), cars regularly stop there. Payment for charging ? Car parks may be easier - blocking off a few spaces for works, is better than closing a lane or two in a road...but ICEing may be a problem...
A notable plus for wireless charging (that I don't believe was mention in your pervious videos) is a shared inverter helps lower the fleet coast. While an on car inverter is handy for a personal vehicle, the charing inverter can't be used when it is too is being driven about. For a commercial fleet it is likely more cost effective to drop AC support on the vehicles and adapt the parking lot. Odds are the in car inverted will outlast the car itself anyway, so it is just one less thing to part out.
The current from the coil is also AC, just at a different frequency. The charging electronics will be different, not disappear as it would in a DC charging only vehicle, roughly and hypothetically speaking.
Maybe it would still be worth it because this enables millimetre precision and those chargers will be used a lot of times over many years and the charging efficiency gains will add up. Assuming automatic parking will result in 1 inch misalignment on average what would be the efficiency loss from such misalignment as compared to a perfect one?
Wireless charging roads on a large scale aren't going to happen anytime soon for the same reason that overhead power lines for electric trucks aren't going to happen anytime soon. As you pointed out, this kind of infrastructure is very expensive. It can only happen if a very powerful entity pays for it. It can only be profitable if the tech is massively adopted. Say for example a government pays for the construction and forces mass use. As long as it's not totally clear that these are good solutions, no government is going to even attempt it.
Heck, many people believe EV vehicles aren't the future. It'll be a long time before anything futuristic like wireless charging roads ever become a serious topic.
selling a hardware that enables wiresless charging is a product that generates revenue on its own, but it would also increase the technical service required for repairing and fixing, while that too can be profitable, it would affect their current factory layouts so "making space in an already tight space" would be required the biggest argument in my eyes is that both tesla and customer saving on cables and socket adapters, etc, and hopefully that the whole industry will decide to synchronize on the same communication protocol / frequencies technology and/or standard rather than each developing their own, incompatible version --- and let's be realistic, older car manufacturers are unlikely to be inovative enough nor willing to adapt straight away - just look at the NACS topic where there still are a lot of brands who don't have it
I don't understand this. Wirless is less likely to break. Less moving parts. It won't have an affect on factory layouts either, other than to make them simpler.
@@thelimitingfactor i hope so, i only made a speculation that it may hypothetically bring new technical problems tesla would have to be dealing with, - lets hope i am wrong haha
Why not have the wireless charging receiver in the middle of the car rather than front or back? That way, the car can park forwards or backwards into the spot and still accept the wireless charge no matter if a human or “cyber-cab” does the parking.
Every vehicle has a different length, so what you need is a consistent distance from curb/wall, allowing them to park correctly when charging. Front vs rear doesn't matter, so long as you know which way your vehicle goes.
not convinced that the robustness of wireless would outweigh cost. should be trivial to make contacts in such a way that replacement would be cheap and trivial. however wireless might allow charging at the robot workstations in order to allow charging while. it is working. that would significantly increase the value of the robot. having said that wired charging at workstations would also be possible in the same way that we use our mobile phones while they are plugged in. for mostly stationary tasks optimus could plug and unplug itself as it moves around the factory when it switches between tasks
Wireless charging roads make no economic or practical sense, since the charging can start as soon as the car is positioned and handshaking is complete, top up charging a car is likely to be quick and easy.
They are not right around the corner for sure, but a wireless charging road would have HUGE benefits. Namely, allowing vehicles to road trip while having tiny batteries and thus be a very cheap vehicle to purchase. Or to eliminate towing anxiety for the pickup crowd. You don't even need to blanket all roads with wireless charging. You could start at hills, meaning that you eliminate the parts of the journey that cause the most energy drain.
@Bryan46162 but nobody can even build proper roads, much less maintain them, not to mention running high voltage electrical thru them. That's just waaaaay too much to be doing.
Theoretically. There was a study that placed an iPhone to peoples chest that was shown to have some effect on pacemakers. This seems to have been just the phone, so I would actually wonder if it was the NFC instead of the Qi receiver. However, remember that the intensity of a field is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the emitter. So I guess if someone fell over on top of one of the chargers it could have an effect on a pacemaker. However, according to the SAE J2954 Wikipedia page, the chargers communicate with the car via Bluetooth, so it would probably not even activate unless a car was in the way, absorbing most of the radiation.
Slight correction: The power for a 250 kW Supercharger is not necessarily enough for 10 25 kW chargers. The power is shared between superchargers, since charging rate is limited by the cars/battery, so there is no need to have the electronics and power supply for all the Superchargers at a site to be working at 250 kW at the same time. For 25 kW charging, almost all the cars/batteries will be capable of drawing 25 kW, so sharing power does not give you an investment saving without significantly sacrificing charging speed when most of the stalls are occupied. So about 5 or 6-ish 25 kW charging pads for a 250 kW Supercharger. Or so. Roughly.
Thank you!
I believe for cybercabs, Tesla will plan its deployment according to peak demand as predicted by James douma. Hence, most cars will be underutilized, and thus they will have plenty of time to charge - charging speed will not be as critical. They only have to make sure all the cybercabs have sufficient charge during peak hours.
Agreed
Angled parking and parallel parking would be problem if vehicle charging pad location is not standardized. Putting ground pad near curb makes sense since vehicle length can vary, but backing into angled spot has its problems.
Maybe the parking spots in question would be rebuilt for straight parking when the chargers are to be installed. Or the chargers will be installed in other spaces.
Reversing into a tight parking slot is always easier than doing it forwards.
see - Tesla FSD tightest parking EU.
...in your opinion. I prefer it that way myself, but I can see that the sideways precision of the end of the vehicle going in first will be better on average if a randomly selected driver goes in forwards, which was the issue in question.
stellar as always!
Thanks man!
I think for Optimus it makes a lot of sense to have a normal, short power lead. That way, it can continue to work on the tether, and it can plug in literally everywhere.
it should have ungrounded 120v cord dragging from its butt........lol.
I was of the understanding that Qi chargers were also resonant chargers where both the coils operate at a constant resonant frequency. Maybe they're talking about being able to tune the resonance with various capacitor banks like in some RFID readers. This will let you increase the Q (basically the peakiness) of the receiving and transmitting coils.
Qi is inductive, not resonant inductive. That's why it doesn't work with a signifcant air gap
IMHO the cybercab fleet will be owned and operated by Tesla, and rolled out city by city in tandem with wireless charging. First cities covered will be the cities that Cruise and Waymo have been operating in as these municipalities have already greenlit the regulatory approvals for autonomous ride hailing. It will be interesting to see how much market share each company can capture. . . .
Tesla is planning to make them by the millions. A slow deployment won't keep up with that volume.
@@andrasbiro3007 It would keep up for a short while. Those are some big cities. It will not be dominating the traffic in New Delhi two seconds after it starts production. Some patience is required.
If the Optimus had wireless charging in its feet then it could stand on the charging pad while continuing to work. This would be useful for any type of work where the robot doesn't move much from its workstation.
It's always possible that Tesla owners can "opt-in" to the wireless charging network (and get paid), so robotaxis can charge on their pads in the driveway...
Спасибо за интересное видео. Мы в 2018 году на беспилотный электробус хотели поставить беспроводную зарядку , но отказались от этой идеи (точнее отложили это решение).
For "in road" wireless charging to be feasible - it requires places where cars stop regularly and predictably. The cost for continuous road wireless charging would be ridiculous. Road costs are high enough - without adding additional layers of technical complexity. Traffic lights are an obvious place where "several" wireless charging spots could be sited. Power is there (traffic lights ), cars regularly stop there. Payment for charging ? Car parks may be easier - blocking off a few spaces for works, is better than closing a lane or two in a road...but ICEing may be a problem...
A notable plus for wireless charging (that I don't believe was mention in your pervious videos) is a shared inverter helps lower the fleet coast. While an on car inverter is handy for a personal vehicle, the charing inverter can't be used when it is too is being driven about. For a commercial fleet it is likely more cost effective to drop AC support on the vehicles and adapt the parking lot. Odds are the in car inverted will outlast the car itself anyway, so it is just one less thing to part out.
🎯
The current from the coil is also AC, just at a different frequency. The charging electronics will be different, not disappear as it would in a DC charging only vehicle, roughly and hypothetically speaking.
An idea: the coil in the power pad could move inside the pad to align itself perfectly with the coil in the car.
That would just increase the cost and maintenance. Why to move mechanism in pads when you have autonomous cars that can park precisely.
🎯
No need. It just adds cost.
Maybe it would still be worth it because this enables millimetre precision and those chargers will be used a lot of times over many years and the charging efficiency gains will add up. Assuming automatic parking will result in 1 inch misalignment on average what would be the efficiency loss from such misalignment as compared to a perfect one?
Wireless charging roads on a large scale aren't going to happen anytime soon for the same reason that overhead power lines for electric trucks aren't going to happen anytime soon. As you pointed out, this kind of infrastructure is very expensive.
It can only happen if a very powerful entity pays for it. It can only be profitable if the tech is massively adopted. Say for example a government pays for the construction and forces mass use.
As long as it's not totally clear that these are good solutions, no government is going to even attempt it.
I agree!
Heck, many people believe EV vehicles aren't the future. It'll be a long time before anything futuristic like wireless charging roads ever become a serious topic.
my wife suggested they install a charging pad to fill in the potholes in the existing roads. 8) (love her humor)
😂
What about the interaction with pacemakers?
It's been safety tested for that. You can easily look this up online by punching in the charging standard I mentioned.
10:40 Cybertruck has wireless charging?
The headers
selling a hardware that enables wiresless charging is a product that generates revenue on its own, but it would also increase the technical service required for repairing and fixing, while that too can be profitable, it would affect their current factory layouts so "making space in an already tight space" would be required
the biggest argument in my eyes is that both tesla and customer saving on cables and socket adapters, etc, and hopefully that the whole industry will decide to synchronize on the same communication protocol / frequencies technology and/or standard rather than each developing their own, incompatible version --- and let's be realistic, older car manufacturers are unlikely to be inovative enough nor willing to adapt straight away - just look at the NACS topic where there still are a lot of brands who don't have it
I don't understand this. Wirless is less likely to break. Less moving parts. It won't have an affect on factory layouts either, other than to make them simpler.
@@thelimitingfactor i hope so, i only made a speculation that it may hypothetically bring new technical problems tesla would have to be dealing with, - lets hope i am wrong haha
Why not have the wireless charging receiver in the middle of the car rather than front or back? That way, the car can park forwards or backwards into the spot and still accept the wireless charge no matter if a human or “cyber-cab” does the parking.
Probably because the battery takes up most of the space between the wheel ( middle of car), leaving front and rear space for charging/electronics
🎯
Every vehicle has a different length, so what you need is a consistent distance from curb/wall, allowing them to park correctly when charging. Front vs rear doesn't matter, so long as you know which way your vehicle goes.
Optimus charging should be done with the old Tesla charging snake ;)))
😂
not convinced that the robustness of wireless would outweigh cost. should be trivial to make contacts in such a way that replacement would be cheap and trivial. however wireless might allow charging at the robot workstations in order to allow charging while. it is working. that would significantly increase the value of the robot. having said that wired charging at workstations would also be possible in the same way that we use our mobile phones while they are plugged in. for mostly stationary tasks optimus could plug and unplug itself as it moves around the factory when it switches between tasks
Wireless charging roads make no economic or practical sense, since the charging can start as soon as the car is positioned and handshaking is complete, top up charging a car is likely to be quick and easy.
They are not right around the corner for sure, but a wireless charging road would have HUGE benefits. Namely, allowing vehicles to road trip while having tiny batteries and thus be a very cheap vehicle to purchase. Or to eliminate towing anxiety for the pickup crowd. You don't even need to blanket all roads with wireless charging. You could start at hills, meaning that you eliminate the parts of the journey that cause the most energy drain.
@Bryan46162 but nobody can even build proper roads, much less maintain them, not to mention running high voltage electrical thru them. That's just waaaaay too much to be doing.
What about people with implanted heart pacemakers - is wireless charging safe for them?
Theoretically. There was a study that placed an iPhone to peoples chest that was shown to have some effect on pacemakers. This seems to have been just the phone, so I would actually wonder if it was the NFC instead of the Qi receiver.
However, remember that the intensity of a field is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the emitter. So I guess if someone fell over on top of one of the chargers it could have an effect on a pacemaker.
However, according to the SAE J2954 Wikipedia page, the chargers communicate with the car via Bluetooth, so it would probably not even activate unless a car was in the way, absorbing most of the radiation.
Tested, no issues
@@thelimitingfactor already tested? Also for those high power car chargers? Would you mind sharing the links to those tests/studies?
It would be a bigger problem for the poor old lady with the pacemaker that she is now squeezed under a parked Tesla.
If ownership of cybercabs is profitable, hope that Tesla will give the old Tesla owner priority to buy. One for each bought.❤