Alright. I'll bite. "Perennialism is the belief that there is one metaphysical truth underlying all world religions. Perennialists hold what is universal to be significant, and what is particular is insignificant" (point #1 at 13:59 , sans the flipant remark). Surely that should clue anyone in to the fact that a Christian (Ficino, Mirandola) who is using this philosophy to point out that all religions are implicitly Christian or that pre-Christian religions are essentially proto-Christian, has fundamentally missed the point of Perennialism... Point #6 comes as a direct consequence of point #1, though you've worded it here as if it were a tool for political ends imposed on others, rather than a natural result that happens to a person when they embrace Perennialism. But I deeply disagree with points #2 to #5: defining Perennialism by the actions of those who have acted badly and used its banner as justification is like defining Capitalism to be "the encouragement of sweat shops and child labour" or Communism to be "the systematic slaughter of dissidents". Those things have happened under those banners, but they're hardly the point of those ideologies. It's like looking to Richard Lionheart, Mary Queen of Scots or the the Medici family to describe what Christianity is rather than St Francis, Thomas Merton or Richard Rhor. Houston Smith is a good example of a Christian Perennialist who has understood the point of this philosophy. Aldous Huxley is another great example. Not bloody Ficino or Della Mirandola!
I think Dan is less defining Perennialism philosophically but historicizing it as a concept. Further, while it may emerge from this context (and I agree it does) that doesn't necessarily philosophically doom the project (that'd be the genetic fallacy he mentions). It just means that this historical origin also influences it's historical trajectory as a concept and that's it's better to be conscious of this tendency than not - Especially for folks that identify as part of that tradition.
@@TheEsotericaChannel your reading on this is a testament to your good nature, dear Justin, and I can't find fault with it. Thank you for your perspective. To my discredit, I admit I listened to the first 1/2 hour and just got so hot behind the ears that I may have let fly sooner than I should have, though I wonder how many will have stuck around long enough to extract the nuance you mention, and how many will have walked away with the understanding that Perennialism is essentially colonialism in disguise. Certainly an important discussion, and I'm glad for your helpful input! 🙏
@@FoolishFishBooks In the first few centuries of the development of the concept the two are difficult to separate though even in how 'new age' spirituality sees itself as a more universal thus a supersession to the particularities of Christianity, that trajectory very much continues - though the iron glove of this logic is in a velvet glove rather than just, you know, the Inquisition. Though, speaking for myself, as part of a community for whom our particularity was the very root particularity needing to be 'overcome' by the universal of Christendom, I have to admit that I remain skeptical of the Perennialist impulse. However, and at the same time, I know there are wonderful, thoughtful and progressive people like yourself in this tradition with precisely an eye towards learning from the past and generating a version of the philosophy very much opposed to the sins of that past. I appreciate you deeply for that.
@@TheModernHermeticist What's a Christian Platonist? Do you just mean philosophically? "Christian" would indicate a lot more than a philosophy though. (My Jameses are very calm, by the way. Genuinely curious. Hahaha)
Hey Bruno, thanks for the gift! PayPal works too, and they take a smaller cut, or Patreon (which also takes roughly the same size a cut as PP). YT takes 30% and gives 70% to creators, so not the worst, but not great either. At least better than what you thought here.
As I understand it , the core doctrine of Perennialism is that of unqualified nondualism . The most explicit rendering of this mystical “vision” that is possible in dualistic language is found in Advaita Vedanta .
Hey Dan, I started reading your PhD thesis and got through the first part already. Loving the footnotes! This collaboration with ESOTERICA is the perfect complement. Glad to have found it in one place to download. 90 minutes in. Amazing.
@@TheModernHermeticistHey Dan, I just finished the second section again (after re-reading both the first and the second). I am now following your prose flow much closer - short of having you on audio LOL). You've clarified and answered many questions I have had about this period with your historical overview. Just what I needed. Really, really brilliant. I found an old copy of Reeves The Prophetic Sense of History in Medieval and Renaissance Europe (Variorum Collected Studies) on Amazon in the UK and snatched it up! I'll send you an email to your academic account at SJ when I'm done -- if that's ok. But many thanks once again!
thank you for this talk, i watched it back then and you made a great point about the dangers of universalism and the dark side of wanting to have your cake and eat it too. I see a lot of young people sharing this view of "well, everyone is right in their own special way!" while at the same time being like "no, we have to TELL YOU how YOUR tradition confirms and is integrated by our own readings of it". Also, i wish you made more content like this! dgmw i love the readings, i think it is a very important work that brings these esoteric texts to a broader audience, but your dissertations and history lessons are very interesting and cool, too.
Every culture has the dominant and that which stands at its periphery. The Jewish problem in Europe was more about assimilation. The battle for Europe was the battle for Christianity not any other religion anymore than Zionism is for the Jews; the Islamic excursion into the hermetic or primitive cultures into shamanism. One has to dominate even in a synthesis. Esotericism bears many fruits but its axioms lie mostly in the seven hermetic laws , be that in Kabbalah , shamanism, Buddhism , etc. Not so much in history as a academic study.
“Truth is one, the sages call it by many names.” Rg Veda Samhita 1:164.46 Also, the truth comes from heaven onto the top of the mountain and flows down in many streams.
I'm impressed by how much sociology plays a role, even among "intellectuals". What should it matter if intellectuals disagree? True intellectuals would love to learn from their differences. Or if an intellectual believes he is right, than what does it matter if someone does not believe what he believes. Rather, so much of this is institutions, and power systems, and my club vs your club, even going so far as to justify violence against others, hardly an intellectual move. I've experienced this myself, most people fear getting kicked out of the club, a sociological fear.
Currently working through the intro and excited about where this will go, I like Perennialism but it does have a serious goalpost moving problem. It comes off as just too convenient. One note - It was mentioned that no Perennialist wants to touch something like the code of manu, but I believe Evola is the exception to the rule here - pretty sure he mentions it in some essays, if not in Revolt itself.
3:39:37 Pascal was obscure? I ask from ignorance, because I only know him for a) contributions to Calculus, and b) the quote “I’m sorry I wrote you such a long letter. I didn’t have time to write you a short one.” Question: I want to learn more. Do you have a recommended reading list to learn more about Pythagoras, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle? Again, I ask from ignorance, and so wonder if you might have a recommended list. Thanks 👍
Not sure about Pythagoras. Socrates never wrote anything down, so we only have comments by his students like Plato and Xenophon. As for Plato and Aristotle, there are philosophy teachers here on TH-cam who have posted their lectures on P&A.
I recommend you with all my heart "big history series" from this channel (Modern Hermeticist) there are episodes about those philosophers, but it's better to start from the begining, trust me this playlist is gold mine
Hey Dan, quick question regarding engraved artwork, I guess that’s that it’s called, 8:21 for example, these things blow my mind in all the right ways lol, how are they so fantastically produced!!!! I really would love it if You could clue me in on the Magic, maybe make an image library available for us to peruse, a favorite past time of mine is getting a bit “elevated” 😂 and really doing my own deep dives into these images, they really are extremely fascinating.
You are on to one of the more profound secrets of alchemy/magic. Btw, the Green Lion ate the Sun because He ran out of doritos and taco bell was closed. 😁
The image at 8:21 is of Bellona. I get most of images on Google images with the public domain filter enabled; sometimes I just collect random stuff I find; but I also get a lot of material here and I recommend getting elevated and diving into this databank which I believe is always growing: iconographic.warburg.sas.ac.uk/home
Jeff, get yourself a hardcover copy of "The Greater and Lesser Worlds of Robert Fludd - Macrocosm, Microcosm, and Medicine" by Joscelyn Godwin. the preface begins explaining how Fludd was an encyclopedic author who wrote in Latin, in an almost untranslatable way "However nothing better confirms the adage that a picture is worth a thousand words. Fludd's illustrations, entrusted to some of the best copper engravers in Europe, often bypass the text and make his point directly via the eye." i can tell you from experience you will be stuck admiring this treasure for the rest of your life. do not get the soft cover! Enjoy
Words as weapons, texts as swords that can be turned against their authors - how interesting that this metaphor becomes enshrined in later perennialist esoteric systems, the sword symbolising words, thought, logos, intellect etc. In a way, the historical thought process outlined here is told in that great Christian cabbalist work, the rider waite smith tarot - the way the 1 to 10 of swords starts with the Prisca Theologica symbolised by the ace, the original unified and uncorrupted word that speaks all intellect into being and the only really ‘good’ card of the ten - then when we introduce another with the two we are faced with confusion and a blind choice, and we are on the road to heartbreak, war, exile, imprisonment and ultimately total obliteration as we move through the suit (or down the ‘tree’). Now I think about it, Pico’s metaphor of ‘darts’ even includes the suit’s element of air, and it also provides a way of dealing with that pesky Jesus quote! Of course there’s no way that Waite considered any of this to reflect a ‘dark’ side of perennialism, but we can see that it does. A fascinating video as always, thank you.
I'm currently two- and one-half hours into this, taking it in segments every day due to length. I normally don't comment on videos that I haven't finished listening to, but I would make two small observations now, before I forget them. For Dr. Attrell, I think the entire concept of calling out a "dark side" to Perennialism might be close to an anachronism. Is it "dark" principally by 21st century standards, i.e., a failure to value diversity? Is it dark tactically or strategically? Would these scholars have understood the criticism if it had been levelled at them during their lifetimes? Simply examining an intellectual opponent's arguments for the things you agree and disagree with seems like time-honored "compare and contrast" methodology. Likewise, combing through a body of writings for weaknesses or "errors" that can be used in a debate seems more like rigorous preparation than "dark" behavior. The writers were obviously acting in the interest of advancing and strengthening their own belief system; but does that qualify as morally questionable? For Dr. Sledge, his comments regarding the Shekhinah as a response to the Marian cult, implying that it was less than organic, seems to be unnecessarily restrictive. Couldn't the "competition" with the Catholic Church to produce a Jewish divine feminine have been the trigger, or a prompt, but not the final and exhaustive cause? What if the divine feminine was already latent in Jewish thought (it would not be surprising, given the nearly universal occurrence of sacred female figures), and was brought to the surface and elaborated in answer to Mary? All in all, a good program with good content; I am a little put off by some of the value judgements that seem intuitive enough today but might not have been applicable (or even conceivable) when the thinkers discussed were alive. Nevertheless, thank you for the video.
I was thinking of 'dark' more in terms of something like a Jungian shadow than in terms of 'evil' necessarily. It definitely is ahistorical or anachronistic to judge, say, Ficino according to modern beliefs, but there's things to be said about the Perennialism he had some part to play in since it endures into our own day (where it can be judged by modern standards). The problem with the whole 'combing through for error's in another's work' arises when you start forcing people into debates they cannot win out of an incommensurability of religious logics (which didn't happen with Ficino, but it happened among the guys who wrote the texts Ficino extensively cited/quoted from in his own polemical works).
@@TheModernHermeticist Interesting points, and I thank you for the response. I agree that "forcing" anyone into a debate is dishonorable behavior. Taking issue with their writings, however, seems perfectly acceptable; and the line between inquiry and polemic can be shaded in grey. Certainly the forced debates with flesh-and-blood people that employed unfair ground rules, as cited in the video, is reprehensible.
I deeply appreciate the time, research, and effort dedicated to this video, which is rigorous and well-crafted. However, there are also several flaws: The distinction between esotericism and exotericism is not exclusive to the Perennialists but is also made by various academics across diverse disciplines. Moreover, from a purely historical perspective, spiritual traditions have always had one character for their initiates and another for the general public. There isn’t necessarily a bias toward taking what is common and discarding differences. On the contrary, you yourselves explain that Perennialism is not the same as syncretism, which mixes everything together. The Perennialist school has never advocated for diluting religions or synthesizing them because it precisely respects their differences. Cutsinger, the most contemporary Perennialist and an ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN with a doctorate in theology and religious thought, despite engaging in interfaith dialogue, never concealed or diluted the fundamental differences between religions. A Perennialist who was absolutely rigorous, precise, and respectful of doctrinal differences. As you mention, there are fundamental differences in the forms and objectives of Mitra, Krishna, and Jesus. What is UNIVERSAL is the appearance of such figures in all religions. It is not that they are identical and uniform; what matters are the structural similarities or conceptual synchronicities. The video focuses primarily on Marsilio Ficino and Pico della Mirandola, when there are traces of a primordial wisdom (without the name "Perennial") from much older times. Everything said about them refers to their particular political and religious interests. It is not the case that a Perennialist necessarily shares the same logic presented here. In fact, I reiterate that Perennialism does not seek a final religion nor aims to annul diversity, which is evident in more contemporary Perennialists. The impression is given that Theosophy and Perennialism are lumped together, yet Guénon was a direct critic of Theosophy. In fact, Theosophy directly led to the New Age movement, which causes the type of relativistic, morally fluid, and syncretistic individual referenced in the example with the verse from Jesus. On the other hand, Perennialism has produced philosophers and theologians who, far from adopting a hippie or relativistic attitude, identify the universal moral principles of each religion (without necessarily forcing them). A committed Perennialist would never tell you that truth is simply whatever makes you feel good. At least, no committed Perennialist would. I repeat: The hippie, relativistic, and syncretistic mindset (as in the example) comes from New Age thought, a result of Theosophy, which is perfectly suited for neoliberal subjectivization. In contrast, Perennialists, far from being “imperialists,” seek unity in diversity. Traditionalists do not aim for one worldview to dominate others, and many even advocate for local civilizations (which is very different from the uniformity or homogeneity of fascism, imperialism, and even the current globalization). However, I must recognize that Perennialism still lacks a concrete history of its thought. Although the school takes Guénon as a reference, not Ficino or Pico della Mirandola, it also needs to be very rigorous in its analyses and distinctions (something Cutsinger achieved) to avoid the ambiguities you mention. Nonetheless, from what I have read, the philosophical analysis of thinkers like Schuon and Guénon is remarkable and has been recognized by academic philosophers.
“This is trespassing over enemy lines.” A perennialist doesn’t see you as an enemy, but a comrade. Your argument is that perennialism is a type of tribalism, and that’s just not the case. Tribalism is the enemy, not you.
A lot of the criticisms being thrown at perennialism in this video have very shaky ground. You can try and say it’s because of the common thread of thought following platonism, yet a lot of the perennialist thought can be applied, and still fits with, spiritual thought from the Americas, which conveniently gets ignored in this video, typical of western colonizing narcissistic thought. Also, perennialism doesn’t vilify unity nor diversity, at least from what I’ve read, that’s wholly being made up by these guys. From my understanding it’s that each prophet/mystic is trying to paint a portrait of the visions of God they saw, and one artist has one particular style, different from the next, now each is beautiful in its own way and the diversity adds to the beauty of existence, yet we must not get confused thinking they’re painting something entirely different, just because their portraits are in different styles. Otherwise you get childish philosophies thinking They’re the ONLY chosen people and all other heathens should die! (Talk about dark histories “cough”Abrahamic religions”cough”) Lastly, it is verifiable, through personal gnosis and deep meditation. Perennialism is not basing itself in what the Pharisees think, but looking at the writings of mystics in all cultures, and I challenge whoever doubts the existence of the subject matter of the paintings, to try and follow the steps of the mystics and paint their own canvas. It’s not easy, but it is doable, however, it is also an internal phenomenon, hence it will not be something that can be approached through the lens of science, but the west could learn a lot from the east when it comes to internal phenomenology.
@@alejandromadrid8075 😂 yes, because aztecs were the only society doing human sacrifice in religious contexts *cough* European witch hunts *cough cough* stoning sexual nonconformists by all abrahamic religions *cough cough* Unsure what point you’re trying to make, but it’s clear you’re not very well read if you’re confused by who “the east” is, and no it’s not political leftists.
Abrahamic religions have a beautiful history, except you bring forth the exceptions to invert reality, and pretend that is always at war everywhere. Its called anti-Christian propaganda carried out the masonic construct called U.S.A, you are just to simple to perceive it, it will never occur to you, that what you are being told doesnt add up to reality. Reality is different. The entire world would like to live in Christian societies, and no one would want to live in a society built by Aztecs, Brahmins, or the Dragon Emperor of China, or the living God Hiroshito, or the living God Emperor Nero, unless you would like to be thrown to the lions.
@@alejandromadrid8075 wow, the psychological projection and cognitive dissonance in your comment is next level. How am I the one trying to invert reality by bringing up real historical facts? Do facts offend you? Is the truth scary? You should learn about what the Christian nations did during colonization, let me tell you it was NOT beautiful. Have you learned about the thousands of children raped by priests and religious leaders of abrahamic religions? This is not propaganda, it’s mere fact. Things that are ongoing even today. Ask an LGBT person how Abrahamic religions treat them and then sit there and call them beautiful. News flash! The reason the current world order has Christian nations at the top, is due to the atrocities and theft committed by these nations in the past. They are not chosen by God, they are merely the descendants of the most depraved people, people who justified enslaving other people through their religion. Read a little outside the Bible, it’ll do you good.
Can you talk more about Carl Jung/Joseph Campbell/Jordan Peterson on comparative mythology/Religion? Because it's loaded with Perennialism, reductionism, etc. I'd like to learn more about how the historical/cultural context contradicts the concept of archetypes, these equivocations like you mentioned, the unconscious, etc. And what that says about categories/abstraction and "truth seeking" when you learn there is no inherent meaning in symbolism and too much nuance/complexity when it comes to all these religious cultures Edit: I think it's a "particularist" method of understanding religion...but where do you find meaning when there is infinite nuance and complexity in everything and no inherent meaning. And how do we shape beliefs without falling into that Perennialist/comparative/ etc trap?
Fascinating! I will get his very important book. I would love to hear his take on the Shaykis of the 1840's in Persia and the religion of Mirza Husayn-Ali of Nur (Baha'u'llah 1817-1892).
what is the origin of the term perennialism? bc modern perennialism is very much not what you are describing. the modern petennialosts are clear that the truth is found in actually practicing one of the true religions, an entirely different perspective from pletho. pletho's idea contradicts the idea that there are actually true religions.
How many Greeks did the fall of Constantinople produce in the west? is That enough for the proposed knowledge transfer suggested here ? How much of that knowledge was actually available in greek?
Really enjoying your perspective, Dan. Esoterica is a dialectical materialist and a reductionist from what I've gathered from other discussions. He's highly informed and articulate, but denies that eternal logos is applicable to human life. We all know what grows out of that garden
Hopefully you took that warning sign, though by the first couple minutes I think you can see where it's going. Appreciate your channel btw, you should post more.
Superb stuff! Thank you, Dr. Attrell, and Dr. Sledge, for this! I have known of this "dark side" and the Borg-like nature of many Perennialist arguments for many years, and how they can be deployed very aggressively...I have encountered it particularly badly with people of the Baha'i faith, unfortunately. I do have two questions: 1) At many points you suggest that there is a Perennialist impulse that originates in Platonism, and that the concept of "The One" is--obviously!--very important in all of this. How does Dr. Edward Butler's reading of "the One" being a Christian/monotheist appropriation of something that originally means "uniqueness," "distinctiveness," or even "individuality" rather than "unity" impact this evolving picture? Is it really in Christian monotheizing that Platonism's understood implication in the roots of Perennialism actually resides, then? 2) In the discussion of the mitzvot of Judaism being a way to help repair the cosmos and of God, I am reminded of the corrected version of the Emerald Tablet that Brian Cotnoir's returning to the Arabic originals has provided--to wit: it's not "As Above, So Below," but instead "What is above is [made] from what is below, and what is below is [made] from what is above." Thus, in perhaps a strange sort of way, some of the Renaissance Humanist discussions that involve deriving the Prisca Theologia from Hermes Trismegistus that you were discussing might, in relation to these kabbalistic ideas, be somewhat "right" by accident...!?! ;) I hope to make a donation to you, and to Dr. Sledge (and probably Dr. Puca) soon, as I have a little bit of money I can currently put toward such worthy individuals! Thanks so much, as always!
Hi Dr. Phil, hope you're well. I got your gift this morning, thank you kindly for your generous support, I really appreciate it. To answer your questions to the best of my ability: 1) I think while there is a perennial impulse in Platonism (see the whole discussion on 'Platonic Orientalism' by Walbridge and Hanegraaff), I think it arises out of a fusion of late Platonic logocentric metaphysics in conjunction with the exclusivist principle of Abrahamic monotheism. Each of these elements alone seem to mostly lack a proselytizing/homogenizing dimension, but when you marry them together, you get a more agressive impulse to work from common denominators. I haven't read Dr. Butler's work on this, but I think the Judeo-Christian god is also "unique" and "distinct" as much as he is "unity". The word holy or sacred, which is always used to refer to gods, fundamentally means 'set apart' or 'special,' so the Seraphim circling around God's throne sing "Set apart! Set apart! Set apart is the Lord of Hosts." So the idea of uniqueness or distinctness in my mind works alongside with the idea of unity rather than contradicting it. 2) For the Prisca Theologia, there's a kind of arc in Ficino's life where he first attributes it to Hermes, but overtime he becomes more partial to Zoroaster (and the Chaldean Oracles) as being the original font of wisdom (and Pico from the beginning accused Hermes of being a sorcerer rather than a true theologian, in keeping with the generic position held by Augustine). Ficino was also aware of many Hermeses (after Abu Ma'Shar) which made it more difficult to argue that one Hermes started it all. I actually don't know if Ficino was familiar with the Emerald Tablet... that's something I should look into.
@@phillipbernhardt-house6907 As I understand it, Dr. Butler doesn't really distinguish between "uniqueness," "distinctiveness," or "individuality," and "unity" or "unities," especially regarding the conception of the Gods in Platonic metaphysics. The Gods are "the Ones," and they are all unique and distinctive individualities in unison with each other. Each in all, all in each simultaneously. The "Oneness" is a reflection of the holistic, perpetual and fluctuating unities. Christianity, it would seem, vulgarized this conception by positing a superior, exclusivist deity who holds an everlasting monopoly over competing spiritual agents. Dr. Attrell is spot on when he posits a fusion of late Platonic logocentric metaphysics in conjunction with the exclusivist principle of Abrahamic monotheism. Although, it could be argued that 'logocentricity' can be imagined to be more of a conjugated 'system' of interdependent oscillation.
Wow. Just stumbled across this a few minutes after the post. Dan and Justin on Perennialism. Has to be good. Happy birthday to Esoterica. Didn't agree with your comments on AI, Justin. Beginning of the fucking end.
I love how you said Crystal logical that means learning as much as you can not taking anybody else's opinion and digging through history and trying to find the new discoveries 2 compared to make sure everything matches up in time that's why Jesus always had more than one witness or disciple. So when people us-iran emperor or King decides to control with the masses can read or learn.
@1:35:10, another misnomer. You should say he shifts from anti-judaism to anti-jewism, to say he shifted to anti-semitism, is as if he spoke ill of all the semite-phone peoples. Clearly, the misnomer "antisemitsm" is to deflect attention away.
Wise as snakes, you two! Thank you for your incredibly valuable contribution to human thought and understanding. All paths lead to the same thing in my opinion so I choose to listen to all the snakes! Knowledge is my candle and my heart is my compass on this long dark road to compassion! You two are flame keepers no doubt! If the great mystery and fate grant me money I will certainly give you a large chunk. I'm a hermit, not really into money, just breathing. If you are going to invest in other people's beliefs about the unknowable I think it's wise to understand them fully! Knowing and living something are very different! Highest blessings to the seeker! My limited opinion says god divided itself to get to know itself. Countless iterations.... The galaxies We see in the sky are nothing more than iterations of the same thing. We are in a hyper cube of mirrors. We are a part of god lost in the information of consciousness. So divided we forgot who we really are. Evil is just inharmonious information. The darkness is wonderful! It's where imagination is born. It's the soil good information grows. It pushes us to the light! Religion casts a division among us. Everyone knows everything already so there is no room for growth. They forget they speak of the unknowable... 😏 That's why I refuse to label my beliefs. They change too much anyway. Apart we are little sparks in the flame, together we are everything! We are all chosen or we wouldn't be down here. Just my opinion. I don't know anything! I would never want anyone to fallow my idea of the truth. I think the point in all of this is to find your own!! We are here to learn if nothing else. Edit: Speech to text doing me wrong again, sorry. GD!
@@pathkeepers willfully ignorant, I'm so sorry. You just watched a four hour video and you can't read a comment. That's kind of sad. I'm sure if you can't digest this easy to read, loving comment you made it four hours through a video so dense in wisdom. You probably have that mental illness no one talks about, the PROFOUND disability of knowing everything. Why are you here? Waiting for the simple magic words that change your misery into light? Hope this wasn't to long to read LOL! Good luck man. You can't piss me off , the more you communicate the more I just feel sad for you. Thumbs up your own comment kind of says all I need to know about you. Yeah, I'm sure a person like you hiding behind ks has multiple accounts. The more you communicate the more it benefits these guys so please go on my well read companion. Please enlighten me!!! 🤪 I'm not hiding!
Resistance to the light is truly futile. What that truth is should always change with our prescription. I think god knows through the eyes of the living. The collective electromagnetic field of the beating heart is the most powerful machine on the planet. I wonder when we'll come into our power. Are you the fire or the ashes?
@@luke144 I would posit, rather, that "resistance is futile" in regard to _what frames the light._ That is, the darkness or void to which all things arise from and dissipate into. We always tend to not notice the obvious _space_ between things (yes, even light, visible to the senses), which frame all things in existence.
I've heard the one that criticize me in the past mentioned that Mary motorcycle I'm not sure he was talkin about is booked as well. And I really respect both of y'all y'all like a fountain of information information information cannot be learned at all and yes I meant to do 3 because my God is 3N1
“Quantum physics thus reveals a basic oneness of the universe.” Erwin Schrodinger For the enlightened one all that exists is nothing but the Self. When you realize that the nature of your mind and the universe are nondual, you are enlightened. All one needs is a burning desire to know oneself, devotion, and discipline.
Christianty is the ancient true religion of all mankind! True religion of Ancient Israel fulfilled was Christianity not so called modern day Judaism which started after the time of Christ! Judaism was the new religion not Christianity! You might find that offensive but I find it offensive that you would disagree!
I don’t think humankind is pure enough to wield the Perennial philosophy in the way it was intended. Nothing wrong in reaching for the heavens, but no group should presume to be the betters of all. :(
This is in terms of the true and sound history, STILL these were mixed up and this is the fallicious dogma of perennials (across time and hence ad hoc hogging)
Sometimes one is sent many times that's why it says the Lord of spirits all those that believe shall become one that are the elect and on top of this the Jewish people are the bookkeepers and even in the books mini is spoken of but to find thyself in the book is the greatest honor go to Isaiah chapter 3 and just like I say in/and is the same word said but different spelling two different ideas in Isaiah you have to listen to it and the context is speaking of and you shall find that America is Zion but I might be giving too much of what The floodgate oh show me since I have prayed for them to be released and I know and the secret arts why it should be at the beginning of the month or when that was born in the month is the beginning of the month and that's why I like the word that I said I love how you used it those that seek the truth shall find it it is written and now this is well for his glory not my
Truly ironic that in your talk on perennialism (you assume that the word requires no adjectives i assume because you've only heard it used since, and in reference too Huxley) you seem unaware that for hundreds of years the church referred to gnosticism, from which hermeticism springs, as the perennial heresy. Anyway you should never assume that your audience is too high brow for adjectives with such a broad word as perennialism, especially when publishing to TH-cam.
They were the foreshadows....Melchizedek to which Christ was compared in the NT(christianity)....was of what religion? When he visited Abraham Judaism and Israel did not exist. So...of what kind of priest was he? Perennial Christianity acknowledges portions of Christ teachings were primordial and flowed thru many "religions" . From Adam to Melchizedek...from Abraham to Moses...and who else had Melchizedek "blessed". Appropriation is somewhat non applicable because all religions academically use the culture they begin in in their own religions....Platonic Christianity is another example. If a symbol is effective in any religion it can be utilized in the peak of the mountain. Now..what that peak is, is a matter of faith, culture and perception. Perennialists are simply presenting...the peak of that mountain, has the same base, and the traces of that base are found all around albeit often incorrectly portrayed...even within the religion that claims it alone..is the base.
Jesus did not say I am the peak of the mountain. He said I am the way the truth and the light. There is only one way to salvation and it's Jesus. Repent of your heretical teachings and come back to your Lord and God.
@@Bildgesmythe true perennial thought isn’t a borrowing. Platonic doctrine isn’t a borrowing, it just happens to speak in a manner suited for a place and time, of something that is eternal, furthermore platonism is a tradition not a religion, and perennial thought discerns truth from falsehood, is not bound to but includes the true religions of the world and only speaks of the their essential unity and not a formal one.
@@michaelbell7795 Perennialists are more dogmatic than the Pope 'Trust me bro, there is a True Super religion that includes them all. No matter if most of them explicitly denies that, I know more abot Islam than Muslims (I misread Ibn Arabi), more about Judaism than Jews (I misread the Kabbalah) more than Christianity than Christians (I misread Origen) Trust me bro"
@@michaelbell7795 1. How do you discern between "true religions" and false ones? 2. Based on what do perennialists discern between truth and falsehood in general?
@@Maxpsychologie as Dan said they don’t really have a system for discernment it may sound crude but perennialsm can be summed up as cherry picking what one would like to be an eternal universal truth inherent in all religions but also at the same time transcending them thus making religions kind of obsolete. They literally saw of the branch on which they are sitting on.
It boils down to this: Diversity can be tolerated so long as it does not disturbed the Race. The question of assimilation is not a dark side but is when it involves cruelty and genocide. And neither is it man made given that each Folk-Soul has its own Logos guided by whatever spirit and to avoid a clash of civilizations the above always holds true. The Kabbalists then synthesizing it with Christianity was the most logical and practical conclusion. As was Greek Hermeticism and philosophy with the Arab World's Koran. And the Jews Torah with Egyptian mystery schools
The main reason I study Occult topics is to find a common ground in truth and love to lead them to the Christian Gospel! Praise Be Yod Hey Shin Vau Hey Yeshua Jesus Christ!
I believe the perennial philosophy points to The Gospel of Jesus Christ as should be used to convert people to Christianity! So I am Offended when you call it weaponizing and immoral! When you use it to oppose the Gospel that is immoral! Lecture should be called the light side of Perennial Philosophy!
@miguelakinson Interesting that you should point that out. The late Stella Corbin, wife of the late and great Henry Corbin, a brilliant though controversial scholar of Islam, accused Seyyed Hossein Nasr (descendant of the Prophet and a significant proponent of the modern perennial school) of just that as per Peter Kingsley (in his Catafalque). Henry rightly refused. Henry did believe in a perennial philosophy but he was also an Eranos contributor (Psychology overall being a huge bugaboo of the modern Traditionalist school). It was my first clue that despite the often amazing scholarship of the modern school, it has serious flaws. In fact, there’s too much of Islamic Philosophy in it with little Jewish and Christian philosophy. One can still learn amazing things from their writings because they’re learned, but ….
It seems evident that the diversity of "truth" is the result of the fall as a degeneration of true religion. As a Catholic I believe that the reality of God is vast, and that cultural variety is something sacred and precious, however the preservation of the many (world) is only possible in the body of Christ. The problem is not different systems of logic or the multiplicity of perspective, but the separation of man from God which perverts how one relates to other. We exist to love and to be loved, this is positive freedom as opposed to the negative freedom of unlimited possibility which though seemingly broad leads to destruction. The emancipation of law is tyranny.
![A Problem With My Religion - (in defense of Perennialism) [Esoteric Saturdays]](/img/n.gif)
Alright. I'll bite.
"Perennialism is the belief that there is one metaphysical truth underlying all world religions. Perennialists hold what is universal to be significant, and what is particular is insignificant" (point #1 at 13:59 , sans the flipant remark).
Surely that should clue anyone in to the fact that a Christian (Ficino, Mirandola) who is using this philosophy to point out that all religions are implicitly Christian or that pre-Christian religions are essentially proto-Christian, has fundamentally missed the point of Perennialism...
Point #6 comes as a direct consequence of point #1, though you've worded it here as if it were a tool for political ends imposed on others, rather than a natural result that happens to a person when they embrace Perennialism.
But I deeply disagree with points #2 to #5: defining Perennialism by the actions of those who have acted badly and used its banner as justification is like defining Capitalism to be "the encouragement of sweat shops and child labour" or Communism to be "the systematic slaughter of dissidents". Those things have happened under those banners, but they're hardly the point of those ideologies.
It's like looking to Richard Lionheart, Mary Queen of Scots or the the Medici family to describe what Christianity is rather than St Francis, Thomas Merton or Richard Rhor.
Houston Smith is a good example of a Christian Perennialist who has understood the point of this philosophy. Aldous Huxley is another great example.
Not bloody Ficino or Della Mirandola!
I think Dan is less defining Perennialism philosophically but historicizing it as a concept. Further, while it may emerge from this context (and I agree it does) that doesn't necessarily philosophically doom the project (that'd be the genetic fallacy he mentions). It just means that this historical origin also influences it's historical trajectory as a concept and that's it's better to be conscious of this tendency than not - Especially for folks that identify as part of that tradition.
@@TheEsotericaChannel your reading on this is a testament to your good nature, dear Justin, and I can't find fault with it. Thank you for your perspective. To my discredit, I admit I listened to the first 1/2 hour and just got so hot behind the ears that I may have let fly sooner than I should have, though I wonder how many will have stuck around long enough to extract the nuance you mention, and how many will have walked away with the understanding that Perennialism is essentially colonialism in disguise.
Certainly an important discussion, and I'm glad for your helpful input! 🙏
@@FoolishFishBooks In the first few centuries of the development of the concept the two are difficult to separate though even in how 'new age' spirituality sees itself as a more universal thus a supersession to the particularities of Christianity, that trajectory very much continues - though the iron glove of this logic is in a velvet glove rather than just, you know, the Inquisition. Though, speaking for myself, as part of a community for whom our particularity was the very root particularity needing to be 'overcome' by the universal of Christendom, I have to admit that I remain skeptical of the Perennialist impulse. However, and at the same time, I know there are wonderful, thoughtful and progressive people like yourself in this tradition with precisely an eye towards learning from the past and generating a version of the philosophy very much opposed to the sins of that past. I appreciate you deeply for that.
What is funny is that the religions cling desperately to the insignificant parts, that is why most religious people are very confused.
Well bit....😉👍
This conversation really rustled some jimmies.
Across the vast and majestic gulf of time and space, the jimmies rustled softly
As any good conversation should.
@@TheModernHermeticist What's a Christian Platonist? Do you just mean philosophically? "Christian" would indicate a lot more than a philosophy though. (My Jameses are very calm, by the way. Genuinely curious. Hahaha)
My Jimmie is a force of nature... Watch out!
@@TheModernHermeticist 🤭
Tremendous lecture - affected my own thinking greatly. I'd love to see more in this vein - even if it takes me several listens to ingest.
also - let us know what kind of cut YT takes on these donations - I can use paypal if it's better economics for you
turns out YT takes 70% 🤦
Hey Bruno, thanks for the gift! PayPal works too, and they take a smaller cut, or Patreon (which also takes roughly the same size a cut as PP). YT takes 30% and gives 70% to creators, so not the worst, but not great either. At least better than what you thought here.
Facts
As I understand it , the core doctrine of Perennialism is that of unqualified nondualism . The most explicit rendering of this mystical “vision” that is possible in dualistic language is found in Advaita Vedanta .
Jai Sri Ramakrishna 🙏
Truly fantastic. I would love to hear more about your personal beliefs one day.
Hey Dan, I started reading your PhD thesis and got through the first part already. Loving the footnotes! This collaboration with ESOTERICA is the perfect complement. Glad to have found it in one place to download. 90 minutes in. Amazing.
Awesome, thank you, glad to hear you're enjoying the work, and the footnotes in particular!
@@TheModernHermeticistHey Dan, I just finished the second section again (after re-reading both the first and the second). I am now following your prose flow much closer - short of having you on audio LOL). You've clarified and answered many questions I have had about this period with your historical overview. Just what I needed. Really, really brilliant. I found an old copy of Reeves The Prophetic Sense of History in Medieval and Renaissance Europe (Variorum Collected Studies) on Amazon in the UK and snatched it up!
I'll send you an email to your academic account at SJ when I'm done -- if that's ok. But many thanks once again!
thank you for this talk, i watched it back then and you made a great point about the dangers of universalism and the dark side of wanting to have your cake and eat it too. I see a lot of young people sharing this view of "well, everyone is right in their own special way!" while at the same time being like "no, we have to TELL YOU how YOUR tradition confirms and is integrated by our own readings of it".
Also, i wish you made more content like this! dgmw i love the readings, i think it is a very important work that brings these esoteric texts to a broader audience, but your dissertations and history lessons are very interesting and cool, too.
Every culture has the dominant and that which stands at its periphery. The Jewish problem in Europe was more about assimilation. The battle for Europe was the battle for Christianity not any other religion anymore than Zionism is for the Jews; the Islamic excursion into the hermetic or primitive cultures into shamanism. One has to dominate even in a synthesis. Esotericism bears many fruits but its axioms lie mostly in the seven hermetic laws , be that in Kabbalah , shamanism, Buddhism , etc. Not so much in history as a academic study.
Excellent, a lot of material to back up and expand on a few things I'd sussed out for myself. Thanks for the effort and making this available.
These were the first episodes of Esoterica I ever watched. Thanks for this mega edit, and best of luck on your way to 100k!
“Truth is one, the sages call it by many names.” Rg Veda Samhita 1:164.46 Also, the truth comes from heaven onto the top of the mountain and flows down in many streams.
Great lecture Dan- I really enjoyed it. Keep up the awesome work 👍
I'm impressed by how much sociology plays a role, even among "intellectuals". What should it matter if intellectuals disagree? True intellectuals would love to learn from their differences. Or if an intellectual believes he is right, than what does it matter if someone does not believe what he believes. Rather, so much of this is institutions, and power systems, and my club vs your club, even going so far as to justify violence against others, hardly an intellectual move. I've experienced this myself, most people fear getting kicked out of the club, a sociological fear.
New post! I look forward to listening to this!
Yes Justin everything you say in the intro is very important to keep reminding us. And thank-you to Dan because I had no idea about this dark side.
This is one of the best lectures on this channel!
Currently working through the intro and excited about where this will go, I like Perennialism but it does have a serious goalpost moving problem. It comes off as just too convenient.
One note - It was mentioned that no Perennialist wants to touch something like the code of manu, but I believe Evola is the exception to the rule here - pretty sure he mentions it in some essays, if not in Revolt itself.
Interesting, thank you for pointing this out.
He does very often quote manu in revolt
This is gold!
Thanks a lot Canis
3:39:37 Pascal was obscure? I ask from ignorance, because I only know him for a) contributions to Calculus, and b) the quote “I’m sorry I wrote you such a long letter. I didn’t have time to write you a short one.”
Question: I want to learn more. Do you have a recommended reading list to learn more about Pythagoras, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle? Again, I ask from ignorance, and so wonder if you might have a recommended list.
Thanks 👍
Not sure about Pythagoras. Socrates never wrote anything down, so we only have comments by his students like Plato and Xenophon. As for Plato and Aristotle, there are philosophy teachers here on TH-cam who have posted their lectures on P&A.
I recommend you with all my heart "big history series" from this channel (Modern Hermeticist) there are episodes about those philosophers, but it's better to start from the begining, trust me this playlist is gold mine
@@arturhashmi6281 thank you; I’ll definitely start listening to this series.
Hey Dan, quick question regarding engraved artwork, I guess that’s that it’s called, 8:21 for example, these things blow my mind in all the right ways lol, how are they so fantastically produced!!!! I really would love it if You could clue me in on the Magic, maybe make an image library available for us to peruse, a favorite past time of mine is getting a bit “elevated” 😂 and really doing my own deep dives into these images, they really are extremely fascinating.
You are on to one of the more profound secrets of alchemy/magic. Btw, the Green Lion ate the Sun because He ran out of doritos and taco bell was closed. 😁
The image at 8:21 is of Bellona. I get most of images on Google images with the public domain filter enabled; sometimes I just collect random stuff I find; but I also get a lot of material here and I recommend getting elevated and diving into this databank which I believe is always growing: iconographic.warburg.sas.ac.uk/home
@@TheModernHermeticist🙏
@@YoungDaVinci6996Sometimes Ya gotta make due lol.
Jeff, get yourself a hardcover copy of "The Greater and Lesser Worlds of Robert Fludd - Macrocosm, Microcosm, and Medicine" by Joscelyn Godwin.
the preface begins explaining how Fludd was an encyclopedic author who wrote in Latin, in an almost untranslatable way "However nothing better confirms the adage that a picture is worth a thousand words. Fludd's illustrations, entrusted to some of the best copper engravers in Europe, often bypass the text and make his point directly via the eye."
i can tell you from experience you will be stuck admiring this treasure for the rest of your life. do not get the soft cover!
Enjoy
Words as weapons, texts as swords that can be turned against their authors - how interesting that this metaphor becomes enshrined in later perennialist esoteric systems, the sword symbolising words, thought, logos, intellect etc.
In a way, the historical thought process outlined here is told in that great Christian cabbalist work, the rider waite smith tarot - the way the 1 to 10 of swords starts with the Prisca Theologica symbolised by the ace, the original unified and uncorrupted word that speaks all intellect into being and the only really ‘good’ card of the ten - then when we introduce another with the two we are faced with confusion and a blind choice, and we are on the road to heartbreak, war, exile, imprisonment and ultimately total obliteration as we move through the suit (or down the ‘tree’).
Now I think about it, Pico’s metaphor of ‘darts’ even includes the suit’s element of air, and it also provides a way of dealing with that pesky Jesus quote! Of course there’s no way that Waite considered any of this to reflect a ‘dark’ side of perennialism, but we can see that it does. A fascinating video as always, thank you.
I'm currently two- and one-half hours into this, taking it in segments every day due to length. I normally don't comment on videos that I haven't finished listening to, but I would make two small observations now, before I forget them.
For Dr. Attrell, I think the entire concept of calling out a "dark side" to Perennialism might be close to an anachronism. Is it "dark" principally by 21st century standards, i.e., a failure to value diversity? Is it dark tactically or strategically? Would these scholars have understood the criticism if it had been levelled at them during their lifetimes? Simply examining an intellectual opponent's arguments for the things you agree and disagree with seems like time-honored "compare and contrast" methodology. Likewise, combing through a body of writings for weaknesses or "errors" that can be used in a debate seems more like rigorous preparation than "dark" behavior. The writers were obviously acting in the interest of advancing and strengthening their own belief system; but does that qualify as morally questionable?
For Dr. Sledge, his comments regarding the Shekhinah as a response to the Marian cult, implying that it was less than organic, seems to be unnecessarily restrictive. Couldn't the "competition" with the Catholic Church to produce a Jewish divine feminine have been the trigger, or a prompt, but not the final and exhaustive cause? What if the divine feminine was already latent in Jewish thought (it would not be surprising, given the nearly universal occurrence of sacred female figures), and was brought to the surface and elaborated in answer to Mary?
All in all, a good program with good content; I am a little put off by some of the value judgements that seem intuitive enough today but might not have been applicable (or even conceivable) when the thinkers discussed were alive. Nevertheless, thank you for the video.
I was thinking of 'dark' more in terms of something like a Jungian shadow than in terms of 'evil' necessarily. It definitely is ahistorical or anachronistic to judge, say, Ficino according to modern beliefs, but there's things to be said about the Perennialism he had some part to play in since it endures into our own day (where it can be judged by modern standards). The problem with the whole 'combing through for error's in another's work' arises when you start forcing people into debates they cannot win out of an incommensurability of religious logics (which didn't happen with Ficino, but it happened among the guys who wrote the texts Ficino extensively cited/quoted from in his own polemical works).
@@TheModernHermeticist Interesting points, and I thank you for the response. I agree that "forcing" anyone into a debate is dishonorable behavior. Taking issue with their writings, however, seems perfectly acceptable; and the line between inquiry and polemic can be shaded in grey. Certainly the forced debates with flesh-and-blood people that employed unfair ground rules, as cited in the video, is reprehensible.
I deeply appreciate the time, research, and effort dedicated to this video, which is rigorous and well-crafted. However, there are also several flaws:
The distinction between esotericism and exotericism is not exclusive to the Perennialists but is also made by various academics across diverse disciplines. Moreover, from a purely historical perspective, spiritual traditions have always had one character for their initiates and another for the general public.
There isn’t necessarily a bias toward taking what is common and discarding differences. On the contrary, you yourselves explain that Perennialism is not the same as syncretism, which mixes everything together. The Perennialist school has never advocated for diluting religions or synthesizing them because it precisely respects their differences. Cutsinger, the most contemporary Perennialist and an ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN with a doctorate in theology and religious thought, despite engaging in interfaith dialogue, never concealed or diluted the fundamental differences between religions. A Perennialist who was absolutely rigorous, precise, and respectful of doctrinal differences.
As you mention, there are fundamental differences in the forms and objectives of Mitra, Krishna, and Jesus. What is UNIVERSAL is the appearance of such figures in all religions. It is not that they are identical and uniform; what matters are the structural similarities or conceptual synchronicities.
The video focuses primarily on Marsilio Ficino and Pico della Mirandola, when there are traces of a primordial wisdom (without the name "Perennial") from much older times. Everything said about them refers to their particular political and religious interests. It is not the case that a Perennialist necessarily shares the same logic presented here. In fact, I reiterate that Perennialism does not seek a final religion nor aims to annul diversity, which is evident in more contemporary Perennialists.
The impression is given that Theosophy and Perennialism are lumped together, yet Guénon was a direct critic of Theosophy. In fact, Theosophy directly led to the New Age movement, which causes the type of relativistic, morally fluid, and syncretistic individual referenced in the example with the verse from Jesus. On the other hand, Perennialism has produced philosophers and theologians who, far from adopting a hippie or relativistic attitude, identify the universal moral principles of each religion (without necessarily forcing them). A committed Perennialist would never tell you that truth is simply whatever makes you feel good. At least, no committed Perennialist would.
I repeat: The hippie, relativistic, and syncretistic mindset (as in the example) comes from New Age thought, a result of Theosophy, which is perfectly suited for neoliberal subjectivization.
In contrast, Perennialists, far from being “imperialists,” seek unity in diversity. Traditionalists do not aim for one worldview to dominate others, and many even advocate for local civilizations (which is very different from the uniformity or homogeneity of fascism, imperialism, and even the current globalization).
However, I must recognize that Perennialism still lacks a concrete history of its thought. Although the school takes Guénon as a reference, not Ficino or Pico della Mirandola, it also needs to be very rigorous in its analyses and distinctions (something Cutsinger achieved) to avoid the ambiguities you mention. Nonetheless, from what I have read, the philosophical analysis of thinkers like Schuon and Guénon is remarkable and has been recognized by academic philosophers.
“This is trespassing over enemy lines.”
A perennialist doesn’t see you as an enemy, but a comrade. Your argument is that perennialism is a type of tribalism, and that’s just not the case. Tribalism is the enemy, not you.
Ive never heard of this idea. Excited to learn
A lot of the criticisms being thrown at perennialism in this video have very shaky ground. You can try and say it’s because of the common thread of thought following platonism, yet a lot of the perennialist thought can be applied, and still fits with, spiritual thought from the Americas, which conveniently gets ignored in this video, typical of western colonizing narcissistic thought.
Also, perennialism doesn’t vilify unity nor diversity, at least from what I’ve read, that’s wholly being made up by these guys. From my understanding it’s that each prophet/mystic is trying to paint a portrait of the visions of God they saw, and one artist has one particular style, different from the next, now each is beautiful in its own way and the diversity adds to the beauty of existence, yet we must not get confused thinking they’re painting something entirely different, just because their portraits are in different styles. Otherwise you get childish philosophies thinking They’re the ONLY chosen people and all other heathens should die! (Talk about dark histories “cough”Abrahamic religions”cough”)
Lastly, it is verifiable, through personal gnosis and deep meditation. Perennialism is not basing itself in what the Pharisees think, but looking at the writings of mystics in all cultures, and I challenge whoever doubts the existence of the subject matter of the paintings, to try and follow the steps of the mystics and paint their own canvas. It’s not easy, but it is doable, however, it is also an internal phenomenon, hence it will not be something that can be approached through the lens of science, but the west could learn a lot from the east when it comes to internal phenomenology.
cough** aztecs** cough cough** sacrificing humans** cough cough** who is the east? Anyone who votes for the democrats?
@@alejandromadrid8075 😂 yes, because aztecs were the only society doing human sacrifice in religious contexts *cough* European witch hunts *cough cough* stoning sexual nonconformists by all abrahamic religions *cough cough*
Unsure what point you’re trying to make, but it’s clear you’re not very well read if you’re confused by who “the east” is, and no it’s not political leftists.
Abrahamic religions have a beautiful history, except you bring forth the exceptions to invert reality, and pretend that is always at war everywhere. Its called anti-Christian propaganda carried out the masonic construct called U.S.A, you are just to simple to perceive it, it will never occur to you, that what you are being told doesnt add up to reality. Reality is different. The entire world would like to live in Christian societies, and no one would want to live in a society built by Aztecs, Brahmins, or the Dragon Emperor of China, or the living God Hiroshito, or the living God Emperor Nero, unless you would like to be thrown to the lions.
@@alejandromadrid8075 wow, the psychological projection and cognitive dissonance in your comment is next level. How am I the one trying to invert reality by bringing up real historical facts? Do facts offend you? Is the truth scary? You should learn about what the Christian nations did during colonization, let me tell you it was NOT beautiful. Have you learned about the thousands of children raped by priests and religious leaders of abrahamic religions? This is not propaganda, it’s mere fact. Things that are ongoing even today. Ask an LGBT person how Abrahamic religions treat them and then sit there and call them beautiful. News flash! The reason the current world order has Christian nations at the top, is due to the atrocities and theft committed by these nations in the past. They are not chosen by God, they are merely the descendants of the most depraved people, people who justified enslaving other people through their religion. Read a little outside the Bible, it’ll do you good.
Excellent discussion. Very detailed.
Aww yea. Just popped the wrapper on a Twinkie and bottle of ice cold milk. Digging in
Can you talk more about Carl Jung/Joseph Campbell/Jordan Peterson on comparative mythology/Religion? Because it's loaded with Perennialism, reductionism, etc. I'd like to learn more about how the historical/cultural context contradicts the concept of archetypes, these equivocations like you mentioned, the unconscious, etc. And what that says about categories/abstraction and "truth seeking" when you learn there is no inherent meaning in symbolism and too much nuance/complexity when it comes to all these religious cultures
Edit: I think it's a "particularist" method of understanding religion...but where do you find meaning when there is infinite nuance and complexity in everything and no inherent meaning. And how do we shape beliefs without falling into that Perennialist/comparative/ etc trap?
Fascinating! I will get his very important book. I would love to hear his take on the Shaykis of the 1840's in Persia and the religion of Mirza Husayn-Ali of Nur (Baha'u'llah 1817-1892).
what is the origin of the term perennialism? bc modern perennialism is very much not what you are describing. the modern petennialosts are clear that the truth is found in actually practicing one of the true religions, an entirely different perspective from pletho. pletho's idea contradicts the idea that there are actually true religions.
4 hours hope this goes subconscious while I snooze
How many Greeks did the fall of Constantinople produce in the west? is That enough for the proposed knowledge transfer suggested here ? How much of that knowledge was actually available in greek?
Each assertion should map on to a phenomenon we all can experience. I would love to know more about "what it means" that "what it says".
If one is speaking of one religion they are not perennial and if one is boasting their own religion over another, they are not perennial
1:24:00
I would love to hear more about Christian Platonism.
Really enjoying your perspective, Dan. Esoterica is a dialectical materialist and a reductionist from what I've gathered from other discussions. He's highly informed and articulate, but denies that eternal logos is applicable to human life. We all know what grows out of that garden
You can’t condense it into less than four hours?
Hopefully you took that warning sign, though by the first couple minutes I think you can see where it's going.
Appreciate your channel btw, you should post more.
Superb stuff! Thank you, Dr. Attrell, and Dr. Sledge, for this!
I have known of this "dark side" and the Borg-like nature of many Perennialist arguments for many years, and how they can be deployed very aggressively...I have encountered it particularly badly with people of the Baha'i faith, unfortunately.
I do have two questions:
1) At many points you suggest that there is a Perennialist impulse that originates in Platonism, and that the concept of "The One" is--obviously!--very important in all of this. How does Dr. Edward Butler's reading of "the One" being a Christian/monotheist appropriation of something that originally means "uniqueness," "distinctiveness," or even "individuality" rather than "unity" impact this evolving picture? Is it really in Christian monotheizing that Platonism's understood implication in the roots of Perennialism actually resides, then?
2) In the discussion of the mitzvot of Judaism being a way to help repair the cosmos and of God, I am reminded of the corrected version of the Emerald Tablet that Brian Cotnoir's returning to the Arabic originals has provided--to wit: it's not "As Above, So Below," but instead "What is above is [made] from what is below, and what is below is [made] from what is above." Thus, in perhaps a strange sort of way, some of the Renaissance Humanist discussions that involve deriving the Prisca Theologia from Hermes Trismegistus that you were discussing might, in relation to these kabbalistic ideas, be somewhat "right" by accident...!?! ;)
I hope to make a donation to you, and to Dr. Sledge (and probably Dr. Puca) soon, as I have a little bit of money I can currently put toward such worthy individuals! Thanks so much, as always!
Hi Dr. Phil, hope you're well. I got your gift this morning, thank you kindly for your generous support, I really appreciate it. To answer your questions to the best of my ability:
1) I think while there is a perennial impulse in Platonism (see the whole discussion on 'Platonic Orientalism' by Walbridge and Hanegraaff), I think it arises out of a fusion of late Platonic logocentric metaphysics in conjunction with the exclusivist principle of Abrahamic monotheism. Each of these elements alone seem to mostly lack a proselytizing/homogenizing dimension, but when you marry them together, you get a more agressive impulse to work from common denominators. I haven't read Dr. Butler's work on this, but I think the Judeo-Christian god is also "unique" and "distinct" as much as he is "unity". The word holy or sacred, which is always used to refer to gods, fundamentally means 'set apart' or 'special,' so the Seraphim circling around God's throne sing "Set apart! Set apart! Set apart is the Lord of Hosts." So the idea of uniqueness or distinctness in my mind works alongside with the idea of unity rather than contradicting it.
2) For the Prisca Theologia, there's a kind of arc in Ficino's life where he first attributes it to Hermes, but overtime he becomes more partial to Zoroaster (and the Chaldean Oracles) as being the original font of wisdom (and Pico from the beginning accused Hermes of being a sorcerer rather than a true theologian, in keeping with the generic position held by Augustine). Ficino was also aware of many Hermeses (after Abu Ma'Shar) which made it more difficult to argue that one Hermes started it all. I actually don't know if Ficino was familiar with the Emerald Tablet... that's something I should look into.
@@TheModernHermeticist Excellent points, thanks so much! :)
@@phillipbernhardt-house6907 As I understand it, Dr. Butler doesn't really distinguish between "uniqueness," "distinctiveness," or "individuality," and "unity" or "unities," especially regarding the conception of the Gods in Platonic metaphysics. The Gods are "the Ones," and they are all unique and distinctive individualities in unison with each other. Each in all, all in each simultaneously. The "Oneness" is a reflection of the holistic, perpetual and fluctuating unities. Christianity, it would seem, vulgarized this conception by positing a superior, exclusivist deity who holds an everlasting monopoly over competing spiritual agents.
Dr. Attrell is spot on when he posits a fusion of late Platonic logocentric metaphysics in conjunction with the exclusivist principle of Abrahamic monotheism. Although, it could be argued that 'logocentricity' can be imagined to be more of a conjugated 'system' of interdependent oscillation.
Good reasons why I appreciate the Vedanta Society. They don’t feel the need to convert or proselytize to others. That is an endeavor which reaps evil.
Wow. Just stumbled across this a few minutes after the post. Dan and Justin on Perennialism. Has to be good.
Happy birthday to Esoterica.
Didn't agree with your comments on AI, Justin.
Beginning of the fucking end.
More accurately, the end of the beginning 🤣😂
@@gogogo1064 I'll go with that :D
Kind of a short video, hmmmm? Well, at the well of eternity....
I love how you said Crystal logical that means learning as much as you can not taking anybody else's opinion and digging through history and trying to find the new discoveries 2 compared to make sure everything matches up in time that's why Jesus always had more than one witness or disciple.
So when people us-iran emperor or King decides to control with the masses can read or learn.
@1:35:10, another misnomer. You should say he shifts from anti-judaism to anti-jewism, to say he shifted to anti-semitism, is as if he spoke ill of all the semite-phone peoples. Clearly, the misnomer "antisemitsm" is to deflect attention away.
Wise as snakes, you two! Thank you for your incredibly valuable contribution to human thought and understanding. All paths lead to the same thing in my opinion so I choose to listen to all the snakes! Knowledge is my candle and my heart is my compass on this long dark road to compassion! You two are flame keepers no doubt! If the great mystery and fate grant me money I will certainly give you a large chunk. I'm a hermit, not really into money, just breathing. If you are going to invest in other people's beliefs about the unknowable I think it's wise to understand them fully! Knowing and living something are very different! Highest blessings to the seeker!
My limited opinion says god divided itself to get to know itself. Countless iterations.... The galaxies We see in the sky are nothing more than iterations of the same thing. We are in a hyper cube of mirrors. We are a part of god lost in the information of consciousness. So divided we forgot who we really are. Evil is just inharmonious information. The darkness is wonderful! It's where imagination is born. It's the soil good information grows. It pushes us to the light! Religion casts a division among us. Everyone knows everything already so there is no room for growth. They forget they speak of the unknowable... 😏 That's why I refuse to label my beliefs. They change too much anyway. Apart we are little sparks in the flame, together we are everything! We are all chosen or we wouldn't be down here. Just my opinion. I don't know anything! I would never want anyone to fallow my idea of the truth. I think the point in all of this is to find your own!! We are here to learn if nothing else.
Edit: Speech to text doing me wrong again, sorry. GD!
TLDR version?
@@pathkeepers willfully ignorant, I'm so sorry. You just watched a four hour video and you can't read a comment. That's kind of sad. I'm sure if you can't digest this easy to read, loving comment you made it four hours through a video so dense in wisdom. You probably have that mental illness no one talks about, the PROFOUND disability of knowing everything. Why are you here? Waiting for the simple magic words that change your misery into light? Hope this wasn't to long to read LOL! Good luck man. You can't piss me off , the more you communicate the more I just feel sad for you. Thumbs up your own comment kind of says all I need to know about you. Yeah, I'm sure a person like you hiding behind ks has multiple accounts. The more you communicate the more it benefits these guys so please go on my well read companion. Please enlighten me!!! 🤪 I'm not hiding!
@@pathkeepers I'll give you that thumb. I know you hunger for it!
@@luke144 I hunger for a condensed version of your comment
@@pathkeepers again kind of sad... If you have trouble reading I'd be happy to help. It sounds like you just want someone to do your homework though.
To the Hindu man doesn’t go from error to truth, but from truth to truth, from lower truth to higher truth. Paraphrase from Swami Vivekananda
Perennialism simply accepts all religions and that it is a path that leads to a single path
Dreams of a final theory
Resistance is truly futile.
Resistance to the light is truly futile. What that truth is should always change with our prescription. I think god knows through the eyes of the living. The collective electromagnetic field of the beating heart is the most powerful machine on the planet. I wonder when we'll come into our power. Are you the fire or the ashes?
@@luke144 I would posit, rather, that "resistance is futile" in regard to _what frames the light._ That is, the darkness or void to which all things arise from and dissipate into. We always tend to not notice the obvious _space_ between things (yes, even light, visible to the senses), which frame all things in existence.
Oh Please Dr. Sledge, could you do an episode on Johann Weyer? If not you, who?
Yes
I've heard the one that criticize me in the past mentioned that Mary motorcycle I'm not sure he was talkin about is booked as well.
And I really respect both of y'all y'all like a fountain of information information information cannot be learned at all and yes I meant to do 3 because my God is 3N1
“Quantum physics thus reveals a basic oneness of the universe.”
Erwin Schrodinger
For the enlightened one all that exists is nothing but the Self. When you realize that the nature of your mind and the universe are nondual, you are enlightened. All one needs is a burning desire to know oneself, devotion, and discipline.
What a bloated pretentious statement you've made. And very derivative. Ultimately flat.
Christianty is the ancient true religion of all mankind! True religion of Ancient Israel fulfilled was Christianity not so called modern day Judaism which started after the time of Christ! Judaism was the new religion not Christianity! You might find that offensive but I find it offensive that you would disagree!
I don’t think humankind is pure enough to wield the Perennial philosophy in the way it was intended. Nothing wrong in reaching for the heavens, but no group should presume to be the betters of all. :(
Ta Dan wonderful x
Everyone is skeptical of what they disagree with. That doesn't make you a Skeptic.
This is in terms of the true and sound history, STILL these were mixed up and this is the fallicious dogma of perennials (across time and hence ad hoc hogging)
We are the Borg. You will be assimilated.
Sometimes one is sent many times that's why it says the Lord of spirits all those that believe shall become one that are the elect and on top of this the Jewish people are the bookkeepers and even in the books mini is spoken of but to find thyself in the book is the greatest honor go to Isaiah chapter 3 and just like I say in/and is the same word said but different spelling two different ideas in Isaiah you have to listen to it and the context is speaking of and you shall find that America is Zion but I might be giving too much of what The floodgate oh show me since I have prayed for them to be released and I know and the secret arts why it should be at the beginning of the month or when that was born in the month is the beginning of the month and that's why I like the word that I said I love how you used it those that seek the truth shall find it it is written and now this is well for his glory not my
Truly ironic that in your talk on perennialism (you assume that the word requires no adjectives i assume because you've only heard it used since, and in reference too Huxley) you seem unaware that for hundreds of years the church referred to gnosticism, from which hermeticism springs, as the perennial heresy.
Anyway you should never assume that your audience is too high brow for adjectives with such a broad word as perennialism, especially when publishing to TH-cam.
They were the foreshadows....Melchizedek to which Christ was compared in the NT(christianity)....was of what religion? When he visited Abraham Judaism and Israel did not exist. So...of what kind of priest was he? Perennial Christianity acknowledges portions of Christ teachings were primordial and flowed thru many "religions" . From Adam to Melchizedek...from Abraham to Moses...and who else had Melchizedek "blessed". Appropriation is somewhat non applicable because all religions academically use the culture they begin in in their own religions....Platonic Christianity is another example. If a symbol is effective in any religion it can be utilized in the peak of the mountain. Now..what that peak is, is a matter of faith, culture and perception. Perennialists are simply presenting...the peak of that mountain, has the same base, and the traces of that base are found all around albeit often incorrectly portrayed...even within the religion that claims it alone..is the base.
Jesus did not say I am the peak of the mountain. He said I am the way the truth and the light. There is only one way to salvation and it's Jesus. Repent of your heretical teachings and come back to your Lord and God.
Was Moses real or a character??? Either can be assumed. But the latter most likely to fit a bill..
What you are talking about is not accurate, and you can’t be a skeptic and a platonic Christian, you have a lot of information but lack discernment
Talking for 4 hours and you think it's all inaccurate? I can see someone disagreeing, but inaccurate? What facts are you referring to?
@@Bildgesmythe true perennial thought isn’t a borrowing. Platonic doctrine isn’t a borrowing, it just happens to speak in a manner suited for a place and time, of something that is eternal, furthermore platonism is a tradition not a religion, and perennial thought discerns truth from falsehood, is not bound to but includes the true religions of the world and only speaks of the their essential unity and not a formal one.
@@michaelbell7795 Perennialists are more dogmatic than the Pope 'Trust me bro, there is a True Super religion that includes them all. No matter if most of them explicitly denies that, I know more abot Islam than Muslims (I misread Ibn Arabi), more about Judaism than Jews (I misread the Kabbalah) more than Christianity than Christians (I misread Origen) Trust me bro"
@@michaelbell7795 1. How do you discern between "true religions" and false ones? 2. Based on what do perennialists discern between truth and falsehood in general?
@@Maxpsychologie as Dan said they don’t really have a system for discernment it may sound crude but perennialsm can be summed up as cherry picking what one would like to be an eternal universal truth inherent in all religions but also at the same time transcending them thus making religions kind of obsolete. They literally saw of the branch on which they are sitting on.
Finally some substantial critique of the perennialist trend.
👀
Yes they are!! 😂
It boils down to this: Diversity can be tolerated so long as it does not disturbed the Race. The question of assimilation is not a dark side but is when it involves cruelty and genocide. And neither is it man made given that each Folk-Soul has its own Logos guided by whatever spirit and to avoid a clash of civilizations the above always holds true. The Kabbalists then synthesizing it with Christianity was the most logical and practical conclusion. As was Greek Hermeticism and philosophy with the Arab World's Koran. And the Jews Torah with Egyptian mystery schools
The main reason I study Occult topics is to find a common ground in truth and love to lead them to the Christian Gospel! Praise Be Yod Hey Shin Vau Hey Yeshua Jesus Christ!
Yeah you sound delusional
Ebola did not like facism, btw, nor did he sympathize with it.
I believe the perennial philosophy points to
The Gospel of Jesus Christ as should be used to convert people to Christianity! So I am
Offended when you call it weaponizing and immoral! When you use it to oppose the Gospel that is immoral! Lecture should be called the light side of Perennial Philosophy!
Forced debates and forced conversion is darkness, even according to the church.
Not forced but friendly persuasion!
@@mjsculdee and also couldn't perennialism be used to also converts others to different religions like islam or Hinduism for instance
@miguelakinson Interesting that you should point that out.
The late Stella Corbin, wife of the late and great Henry Corbin, a brilliant though controversial scholar of Islam, accused Seyyed Hossein Nasr (descendant of the Prophet and a significant proponent of the modern perennial school) of just that as per Peter Kingsley (in his Catafalque). Henry rightly refused. Henry did believe in a perennial philosophy but he was also an Eranos contributor (Psychology overall being a huge bugaboo of the modern Traditionalist school). It was my first clue that despite the often amazing scholarship of the modern school, it has serious flaws. In fact, there’s too much of Islamic Philosophy in it with little Jewish and Christian philosophy. One can still learn amazing things from their writings because they’re learned, but ….
Yeah, that's not why the Talmud was forbidden. It was because it was full of anti-Christian slurs.
Nobody is gunna watch a 4 hour video
Call it evil. Condemn it as evil. Stop blabbering.
All truth points to Jesus Christ Yod Hey Shin Vau Hey!
It seems evident that the diversity of "truth" is the result of the fall as a degeneration of true religion. As a Catholic I believe that the reality of God is vast, and that cultural variety is something sacred and precious, however the preservation of the many (world) is only possible in the body of Christ. The problem is not different systems of logic or the multiplicity of perspective, but the separation of man from God which perverts how one relates to other. We exist to love and to be loved, this is positive freedom as opposed to the negative freedom of unlimited possibility which though seemingly broad leads to destruction. The emancipation of law is tyranny.
What is this true religion you speak of then ?
just another western dude in love with distinctions
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