For those that are still asking about Visual Studio Code being "dropped", check this out: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/163328/what-does-drop-mean-in-this-sentence and JOIN: youtube.com/@azisk/join
@@AZisk Can't wait to hear it. Drop it like it's hot. Apologies for the late response. But a rare internet outage occurred at my ISP right after commenting.
Rider is definitely it's successor. It's much faster and works flawlessly. So vs isn't even needed, I never us vs since I've downloaded rider. Even though it was meant more for cpp and unreal
Wait, this is so confusing. I've heard many CEOs say they're "dropping" something, as in, they're going to stop supporting it. So dropping means both introducing AND ending something? FFS, use more words to express different things people.
I sometimes wonder if the teams at Microsoft, who developed Visual Studio and Visual Studio Code, revel in the joy of knowing that the linguistic ambiguity of those products will continue to confuse people till the end of time. I take a hard guess and say yes.
Visual Studio Code developers was an entire Microsoft team mainly from Europe that started as a lightweight code editor using Electron while Visual Studio has a large multidisciplinary teams (C++, .NET, etc) mainly from USA using a code base with years of development. The name was just a way to associate both projects under the umbrella of MS development tools.
I might be the only person who liked Visual Studio for Mac. I was hoping one day it would catch up to full functionality of MS VS. Every major release got a little better. Kinda bummed about this!
@@imtotallyjustin Rider is great, I use it all the time, granted I come from an IntelliJ background. I'm concerned too because every once in a while I still have to boot up VS for Mac for one reason or another.
I am also big fan of Rider mainly because its compatible with Visual Studio projects and its also capable of using it in teamwork where both IDEs are present.
Not just you. I used VS for Mac and liked it. For some reason, it worked really well on my M1. For my needs, it compared very well to running VS under Parallels or my Lenovo with the 64GB RAM and i7 (12gen). I found the performance was generally very decent, on a par with the Windows box, and for some projects, significantly faster. I'm sorry to see this end, but I learned about Rider from this thread and will look into it.
Visual Studio is an IDE with the Microsoft C/C++/MASM compiler. VSCode is a text editor. The MS compiler without the IDE can be installed separately, it's called the Microsoft Platform SDK at the moment. In the past, MS distributed the compiler-only version of Visual Studio as Microsoft Windows Build Tools. VSCode is an Electron JS app. Whereas, Visual Studio is mostly written in C, .NET, Windows SDK, and partly C++/ MFC, as far as I'm aware. EDIT: The names look somewhat similar.
@@stickguy9109More like a full IDE to a partial one. I understand maybe calling syntax highlighting fancy but vs Code has way too many features to say "fancy text editor". Way beyond notepad++
I knew about Microsoft built tools but not "Microsoft Platform SDK" I'll look into it and see what I find. I know that even if you have clang installed, it'll use msvc for certain things like standard library and linker I think.
The new C# Dev Kit Extension for VS Code is meant to bring a complete C# dev environment, and it does a descent job. You can view solutions and do other stuff in a way similar to the traditional IDEs.
My problem with Visual Studio is speed. It takes a long time to start, long to build, and seems to stagger along for most of the projects I've worked with. VSC is much faster, and I only install the extensions I actually need. I've managed to learn a keyboard shortcut for pretty much everything, and its difficult to move away from that. My main use cases for VS are windows forms (yes, it still exists) and MAUI Blazor Hybrids.
I'm actually developing a new application with WinForms, granted it's guaranteed to run on specialized PCa for the next 10 years, but still it's amazing how it's still around.
Most IDEs have that problem. Android Studio and XCode are slow as hell, too, and they gobble up computer resources like there's no tomorrow. VC Code, being a lightweight *_text editor_* should, of course, be faster than any full-fledged IDE.
@@justadude8716Also still developing new business applications in WinForms - while WPF, WinUI, MAUI came and went, WinForms will never die out. And for someone putting down 500 grand for an application that’s a relevant factor. And accountants don’t care about the looks, only about efficiency
this is why I still use VS2019 for c#. all that AI stuff I didn't ask for in VS2022 is just making the editor lag behind my keystrokes. for javascript, I use VSCode. it's not as lightweight as notepad++, but the ~20x ram usage is worth it.
Does this mean Visual Studio 2022 (or a future release) will be available for Mac? Or has Microsoft just admitted defeat for that demographic to Rider?
@@DizmusT so replace an IDE with a text editor (with some nice plugins)? Can’t see that going down well. Don’t get me wrong, I use VS code a lot, but as soon as I’m working on something substantial I’ll be wanting an IDE. Personally I swapped Visual Studio for Mac with Rider quite a long time ago but I can’t see many devs picking VS Code over Rider if you needed an IDE before.
Apparently you weren't paying attention. It is now legal to run Windows 11 ARM in Parallels on a Mac, and there is also an ARM version of Visual Studio as Alex stated. So Visual Studio 2022 is already available on a Mac, but you have to use Parallels and Windows 11 for ARM. Or you could use an older x86-64 Mac and run Windows 10 or 11 in Parallels or Windows 10 or 11 in free VMWare Fusion Player.
@@mattbosley3531 no. That’s was clear to me. However I use Visual Studio on a Mac I.e. under MacOS. I would like to continue to do so (or I would do if I had t switched to Rider). I’m not the only one either. I don’t want to run Windows to write .Net Core code in MacOS. I want to run an IDE in MacOS.
I'm still an early-stage developer and appreciate the step-by-step mechanics of vs_code. That way I can explore each tool on its own and get familiar with its functions instead of navigating through an "overloaded" IDE. But I guess one day that will change and I will use the "ultimate toolset in the big old plastic suitcase".
Visual studio isn't the ultimate toolset in my view, I actually started there for its integrated convenience, and then as i gained more experience, I realized that it's powerful if you're focused on windows/C# development. I had to switch to VS Code for hardware development, and since then I have come to appreciate Vs Code's strength, which is flexibility and speed.
The main drawback of Visual Studio 2022+ is that you need Windows to run it. And yes this is a drawback for me. .NET is not Windows-only anymore. We hosted our .NET backend on a Linux server for years now. So developing it out of Windows is essential. We make sure that what we develop does not depend on something in Windows. Plus I don’t have to pay all that money to rund Windows cohesively within macOS. This is why I still prefer VS Code for everything, except iOS development; and I pick up just what I need.
I don't quite get how MAUI is truly multiplatform when Microsoft will only support Windows IDEs. Yeah, you can run VS in Parallels, but that doesn't seem legit cross-platform to me. I'm more likely to trust JetBrains tools, if Microsoft is going to play these old OS games again.
@@theontologist They always play the OS/browser games in cycles it seems. For a year or two they're all "kumbaya" then suddenly they swing back into '90s mode & try to squeeze out competition, pushing the boundaries of law.
Before the C# Dev Kit was released for VS Code, the only way to get better refactoring tools on a Mac was to reach for VS for Mac. Oof. It didn't have other necessary features like shows test results updating as you work. 🤦 You need Windows and Visual Studio to get the developer experience you want.
???? Visual Studio is a fkn atrocity... Crashing, resource hogging, buggy, EVERYTHING is hidden behind some shit GUI, Like, just show me the build configuration I don't want your dumb text fields and check boxes.
@@th0bse_ If you want to revel in JSON configs all day, go ahead. I like to have a nice GUI for my tools. Also VS isn't really buggy, used for almost 10 years now and never had any issues
@th0bse_ Nah, skill issues or ancient versions probably. It consumes more resources than a plain text editor like VSCode, but unless you have only 6GB of RAM then it runs just fine. And I don't remember if it ever crashed on me, so I have no idea what that is about.
If MAUI is as great as what MS claimed to be on cross platforms development, then their Visual Studio 2022/23 should build completely in MAUI. So VS for Mac can still live on
This reminds me of when I was about to graduate with an actuarial science degree, and some people advised me to learn Visual Basic. So I got a library book on the topic and was learning along - I knew BASIC from using it on an apple //e as a kid, but had never used it in a context where I could operate a GUI (all of my programming experience had been strictly via text interfaces). I couldn't work out what it had to do with Actuarial Science, though. After I got rather far along, I finally worked out that I was supposed to be learning Visual Basic as a scripting language for Excel, which was completely different from what I had been teaching myself.
But sometimes a specific function doesn't exists or an infuriating choice was made for Visual Studio. But the culture of vscode around extension makes that you will most likely find an extension fixing your problem, while it's not often the case with Visual Studio. It's like if the big crate of tools include a broken one or is missing a specific screwdriver for an exotic end bit, you can have it if you build your own toolset
I once had a "friend" that tried to tell me that one of the jetbrains IDEs for lua was better than vscode. So I'm like, ok find me a feature that you have that vscode (with proper extensions) doesn't. Not only did he not find anything meaningful, but at the end he told me about the many half broken features that his IDE had and I just showed him one by one every single one of them working perfectly in vscode.
I had to work with Visual Studio for aspnet project in the past but was very happy to move to vscode when .net core became a thing and I ported the project to it. Part of that was because I didn't have to use windows anymore but also because it was lightweight and it could still do everything I needed to the point that I never had to leave it, whatever I'm doing, including database management. Also it had better terminal and tasks.
most of gen z uses vscode because of the time they were introduced to programming, and the popularity of vscode at that time. not really their fault, but it is ignorant to dismiss other ides entirely. ide vs text editor is just a case of the right tool for the job
i haven't used VS a lot, but I'm seeing a lot less extensions for it compared to vs code. Is vs better for gamedev with unity or c++ games? and for what reasons.
I would love to run visual studio 2022 in parallels on my M1 Max MacBook Pro…in fact I did the other day. I do mobile development. The main reason I bought a Mac back in the day was to do xamarin for iOS. So the main reason I have been a fan of visual studio 2022 for Mac is because of what happened the other day. I loaded up parallels with windows 11 for arm, installed visual studio 2022 enterprise because the company I work for bought me a license. I then loaded up my latest xamarin project for android / iOS and worked on it a little bit. I noticed 2 things right away: first, it wasn’t very fast. Things ran slowly. Windows moved slowly. It took longer to build than visual studio 2022 for Mac. The second is that I heard something I hardly every here on my M1 Max Mac….the fan was going full blast. Nuf said…
Here's another reason to use Visual Studio vs VS Code: One of the two is a web browser acting as a text editor with a bunch of javascript helping it to pretend to be an IDE and the other is an actual IDE written in a real programming language. Also I'm glad VS for Mac is dead, it sucked.
I know right? Native apps or desktop apps have always felt much more robust than web apps (and vscode, atom, discord, etc are just apps based on the electron framework which is a way to make a web app look like a desktop app).
Also, one BIG difference between VS and VSC is that VS sports a graphic designer. You can just drag controls onto a form, set the properties, and it'll even create stubs of the event handlers that you'll need to populate with code. Also an amazing feature called Intellisense, which can anticipate what you are trying to do and provide useful suggestions. I think VSC has something of the sort but the one in VS is MUCH BETTER. Which is a Godsend for writing C#, which tends to be really verbose.
I use Visual Studio to create MVC applications and when i want to practice an algorithm. When I want to create an api, I use VScode. One window open for Angular, another for c# code.
So what will be the future of Visual Studio with a MacBook? There won’t be any native support for a Visual Studio to run on a Mac? I recently bought a mac hoping Visual Studio for Mac would grow to the full fledged VS 2022 version. Now they drop it, any comments on it’s future? Do we have to run the windows version on parallels from now on?
I remember when people used to joke about Emacs being too bloated and big for an editor, practically being its own Operating System. Now it would be considered extremely lightweight.
Main reason I use code over VS proper: It supports all the languages and programming environments out of box, and does so very, very well. While there are language specific IDEs that perform better in some instances, like CLion for hardware C code and VS for .NET, I just don't want to learn a new editor that behaves just slightly different enough for me to be annoyed by it. Shortcuts are not the same, my macros are not set up the same, et cetera. When you are working with a dozen languages over a multitude of development tools, C99 one day, C++17 another, Rust a third day, JavaScript / React or Node.js next week, all according to the client... Not requiring the runway to learn a new IDE to be just as productive as the big bois is incredible. VS Code is not perfect, but it is good enough that I can get to 95%+ productivity regardless. :)
VS Code is fine, it's a basic code editor which can be endlessly configured and extended. It has an extension store, and you'll find pretty much anything in there. My biggest gripe with it, is consistency. I much prefer to use an IDE that's purpose-built for something, and excels at that. As such, I mostly use Intellij Ultimate, for both Java and Typescript/angular. Some of my colleagues have ditched VS Code for Intellij. Of course, Intellij is much heavier on the CPU and memory, but it's a big boy tool, and does everything better. Except when it slows down to a crawl 😂.
It's a south/southeastern thing. FL and GA do too b/c Coke is based out of Atlanta, and they have a generic trademark or proprietary eponym. Like how Google can mean ALL search engines in general.
Im a game dev using C# for unity. Well I chose vscode over visual studio because performance. My potato pc can’t handle all intergraded software features that I might not need. I rather hav vscode with only essential tools for my project with saved ton of performance for other tasks. And also to mention visual studio installer used 20GB while Vscode used like 3 or 4GB. It’s a win win ig
Its simple Coding editor vs IDE everyone knows the difference between them dont make it too hard to explain this 😅. VS 2022 is fully integrated development kit, while VSCode is just a code editor basic one without code running or debugging capabilities unless you add extensions its that simple.😊
3:42 Fun fact: text files can be managed with version control. They can be easily compared to see what has changed. Can your binary project format offer that?
2:19 I live and grew up in Texas, everyone here knows when I say I want a coke what I am asking for is a Big Red. Except when I am wanting a Dr Pepper, then I ask for a coke and everyone knows I'm wanting a Dr Pepper. The only problem comes when I'm wanting a Mr Pibb and ask for a coke, partly because Mr Pibb was switched to Pibb Xtra in 2001 and partly because I live in a city where Coca-Cola is bottled so, despite all being owned by the same company, they don't sell Pibb in cities where a bottling plant is or where Dr Pepper is sold. You can't get there from here. In any case, in that case, saying coke but wanting a Pibb, I usually get served some off-brand Root Beer. There are limits to our dialect. And just so you know, I never want a Coca-Cola when I ask for a coke, who does? coKe !Coca-Cola.
Many PhD students and researchers use VScode for its simplicity, integrations and multiplatform nature. And yes , I am one of that weirdos loving pain, as I used Kate on Linux for my Cython programming 🤓
Thank god, I thought from the title they were killing VS 2022 & forcing us all to VS Code. Starting a new project in VS, just brings me joy. It is one of my favourite applications. The only disappointment is they no longer make an add-in for developing powershell.
Vim and nvim are for basically for small text editing (config editing, small bash scripts, etc.), vscode is for actual programming projects (although i use vscodium which doesnt have ms tracking) visual studio is for unity development Edit: these are my use cases
VS for Mac never felt right to me. It felt like a copy of MonoDevelop, even, who knows, maybe Xamarin Studio actually came from that first. I wouldn't mind if macOS had Visual Studio natively too, especially given that Parallels Desktop isn't free.
To ones who are curious why they just don't port VS to other platforms, it is not because they don't want market share, but because they have made the editor in C++ which often relies on system libraries, which are different on every OS. Regarding VSCode, I think that it was a massive misunderstanding with the name, in linux it's just named "code", but "code" is a pretty unsearchable name, so they add the VS in front. Fun fact, there is nothing visual in VSCode, while VS offered programmers a visual representation of their GUI programs instead of forcing them to start their programs each time to see the result, it was (still is but isn't used) a simple way to design desktop and web program by just dragging the elements on the screen.
@@stickguy9109 Because visual editors lack flexibility. Editing manually the GUI code results in something that the visual editor cannot display or edit, resulting in displaying something which is wrong, and because it has some logic on how to save the elements on the screen, it can remove your code. That's why the visual element is used only when you do simple desktop programs and not for programs that need to be displayed on different resolutions and aspect ratios. Back in the day, the designs were simple, but as time went on, a different approach was needed. With "hot reload", programmers just save their changes while the program is running and their GUI is updated.
Strange, isn’t it, that other developers, particularly open-source ones, know how to write cross-platform code in C++ and other languages, but Microsoft can’t figure it out.
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 It's not really about that, it is about having a big azz program with lines of code reaching the millions, which makes the port harder than it should be. There was something else that I did not mention and that is, the file system and window managers which communicate differently on different OSes, making it even harder to port.
@@user-dc9zo7ek5j The Linux kernel is over 20 million lines of code and counting. That has been ported to about two dozen different major processor architectures. No proprietary software product can match that. That’s the biggest, but there are others. E.g. Blender at about 1.5 million lines.
AKA, Microsoft fails yet again. Seriously, I'm a developer and (way back) MCSE, but I figured out a long time ago every time I start to give MS a chance, they blow it. I was just starting to give .Net a second look, and they do this (sigh).
Visual Studio for Mac really helped in my final project as my judges want a GUI where I can demonstrate my project and VSC didn't provide that. So I searched and found VS for Mac but I had to link to Xcode... was a hassle but I passed. RIP Visual Studio for Mac
After about 20 years of Visual Studio I moved to IntellJ last year for all my development tasks. Using Webstorm instead of vscode and Rider instead of Visual Studio. And I do like it a lot.
You mean to say, Visual Studio Code: It can have extensions to make you feel that it just works... Visual Studio: It comes with language specific features with every "language-feature" based features built-in and actually just works...
I wish the Visual Foxpo interface had become a VGER. The command window. Thank you. The data browser. The desktop where you could throw graphics, text. I ran PerI from Foxpro and had it show up in Foxpro. just liked the design of the barebones interface. The command window, the active desktop, and the browser. I just want that basic interface but evolved with lots of new guts.
As a C#/ Angular dev I use both. I swear that the Visual Studio developers must be really pissed off that they aren't allowed to add the editor functionality that is in VS Code. Like easy code reformatting as well as linting which is so temperamental.
Even if Visual Studio for Mac didn't have feature parity with the Windows version, it is still immensely useful and preferable for C# development, as it can run on the MacOS directly without needing the overhead of running Windows, in a VM or otherwise, and it is integrated unlike VS Code.
I really dislike VS code mainly because it's an electron app and it eats memory for breakfast. I will give them credit though because they did make a standard for the LSP which is extremely good. Prior to that everyone just had their own language extension apis and it made it really difficult to transfer them between text editors. So even though I use emacs (Yes you can laugh), I still get the benefits of the LSP systems from VS code. Also when I make TH-cam videos, I use VS code because it's easier for people to understand what I'm doing and I don't have to explain buffers and vim keys/emacs chords. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't use VS code at all.
@@edenassos got plenty of memory. My desktop has 128 gigs. Still doesn't mean that I want a text editor to use over 2 gigs on it's own. It's pure waste born from the app being built with JavaScript and electron. Emacs and vim on the other hand use maybe 100megs of ram.
i’m glad you did this video. i was wondering what i was missing out on since ditching Vs for vscode, five years ago. code has been ticking all the boxes… but i can now see that some performance tools are missing
I use VS Mac when I absolutely have to, but other than that I spend 99% of my time in Jetbrains RIDER, a greatly superior cross-platform IDE that runs like a dream on macOS.
I used Visual Studio first with Unity Engine and then at my job I used Visual Studio. I was so surprised to learn that even the keyboard shortcuts were different between the two. It made no sense to me why MS would do that. Of course you can change the keyboard mappings, but still.
Why be excited for killing it for Mac instead of being disappointed they never made it a direct parallel to the Windows version? Wouldn’t you want to use just one OS instead of having added steps and a yearly subscription? I’m not mad about it, just puzzled by the reaction
My experience Visual studio code did NOT need half of my ssd just for and 100% of my ram Visual Studio did not give me inferior debugger and didn't break when making more than 1000 lines of code and multiple files
Honestly, visual studio have better gui builder than other. I just missed it, we can drag and drop, resize, move visually without looking at styles code.
Wow, I"m STILL SO CONFUSED now. I have "Visual Studio Code 1.92" on my Windows computer, but I use it only EXTREMELY RARELY because I just did not understand it much. IS THAT NOW ALSO BEING OBSOLETED ALREADY? This happened to me often that Microsoft just pulled the plug out from whatever I was using.
I wasn't aware that Visual Studio for Mac existed so I don't really know how to feel about it going away. I stopped using Visual Studio years ago because of integration... err bloat that caused the IDE to slow to a crawl and essentially become unusable. I was thrilled when Visual Studio Code became a thing and still use it today.
Yes VSCode is lighter but as a feather?? win7 is lighter than VSCode and its a whole os (yeah I over exaggerated but I meant electron is not light at all).
I've been using Visual Studio since 2013, and the current version I am using is 2019. I started using VSCode since 2021, and to me, it felt like using Microsoft Word and then moving to notepad. But this might feel different to others. By the way, this is not VSCode vs. other IDE, but Visual Studio vs. VSCode.
I like to compare it to buying a Dell laptop off the shelf with everything built in/ready to go, and buying a Raspberry Pi with extra required hardware and software but loads of more customization.
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For those that are still asking about Visual Studio Code being "dropped", check this out: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/163328/what-does-drop-mean-in-this-sentence and JOIN: youtube.com/@azisk/join
So Alex, are you part of the Hip-Hop scene?
@@Br0adCastYourS3lf i’ll be dropping an album soon
@@AZisk Can't wait to hear it. Drop it like it's hot.
Apologies for the late response. But a rare internet outage occurred at my ISP right after commenting.
Rider is definitely it's successor. It's much faster and works flawlessly. So vs isn't even needed, I never us vs since I've downloaded rider. Even though it was meant more for cpp and unreal
Wait, this is so confusing. I've heard many CEOs say they're "dropping" something, as in, they're going to stop supporting it. So dropping means both introducing AND ending something? FFS, use more words to express different things people.
Visual Studio's relationship with Visual Studio Code is like Java's relationship with JavaScript
very well-said.
How?
@@RandyHanley thanks!
@@entx8491 the pair have similar names but not actually the same or one.
@@entx8491 they absolutely have nothing to do with each other, other than sharing some words in their names
I sometimes wonder if the teams at Microsoft, who developed Visual Studio and Visual Studio Code, revel in the joy of knowing that the linguistic ambiguity of those products will continue to confuse people till the end of time. I take a hard guess and say yes.
More than likely, some exec came up with the name, leaving the devs cynically laughing at the confusing result
Of course it was Xamarin, as a separate company, that “invented” Xamarin Studio, which was rebranded as VS for Mac after the acquisition.
Visual Studio Code developers was an entire Microsoft team mainly from Europe that started as a lightweight code editor using Electron while Visual Studio has a large multidisciplinary teams (C++, .NET, etc) mainly from USA using a code base with years of development. The name was just a way to associate both projects under the umbrella of MS development tools.
So is Visual Studio not for coding?
@@vikingthedude Nah, it's for developing ;)
I might be the only person who liked Visual Studio for Mac. I was hoping one day it would catch up to full functionality of MS VS. Every major release got a little better. Kinda bummed about this!
@@imtotallyjustin Rider is great, I use it all the time, granted I come from an IntelliJ background. I'm concerned too because every once in a while I still have to boot up VS for Mac for one reason or another.
me too!
I am also big fan of Rider mainly because its compatible with Visual Studio projects and its also capable of using it in teamwork where both IDEs are present.
Not just you. I used VS for Mac and liked it. For some reason, it worked really well on my M1. For my needs, it compared very well to running VS under Parallels or my Lenovo with the 64GB RAM and i7 (12gen). I found the performance was generally very decent, on a par with the Windows box, and for some projects, significantly faster.
I'm sorry to see this end, but I learned about Rider from this thread and will look into it.
Bro, what did u expected? really. THEY KILLED THE WINDOWS PHONE AND IT WAS AWESOME, JUST NEEDED MORE APPS
Visual Studio is an IDE with the Microsoft C/C++/MASM compiler. VSCode is a text editor. The MS compiler without the IDE can be installed separately, it's called the Microsoft Platform SDK at the moment. In the past, MS distributed the compiler-only version of Visual Studio as Microsoft Windows Build Tools. VSCode is an Electron JS app. Whereas, Visual Studio is mostly written in C, .NET, Windows SDK, and partly C++/ MFC, as far as I'm aware.
EDIT: The names look somewhat similar.
Basically we're talking an actual IDE vs fancy notepad
@@stickguy9109More like a full IDE to a partial one. I understand maybe calling syntax highlighting fancy but vs Code has way too many features to say "fancy text editor". Way beyond notepad++
I knew about Microsoft built tools but not "Microsoft Platform SDK" I'll look into it and see what I find.
I know that even if you have clang installed, it'll use msvc for certain things like standard library and linker I think.
Visual Studio is mostly written in C#, definitely not C. The whole UI is WPF.
It's not just a code editor, it's a generic IDE
The new C# Dev Kit Extension for VS Code is meant to bring a complete C# dev environment, and it does a descent job. You can view solutions and do other stuff in a way similar to the traditional IDEs.
thanks for sharing that
Nuget package manager is not good in vscode
@@venumadhavanvthat is true, the command line is better than vscode for nuget.
@@marna_li still vs 2022 ide have a xaml ui conceptoer (drag and drop designer) and more easy Property ui that vs code dont even 2uth extension
lmao... i guess the kids here have never picked up any enterprise level projects... Not everything is about vscode
My problem with Visual Studio is speed. It takes a long time to start, long to build, and seems to stagger along for most of the projects I've worked with. VSC is much faster, and I only install the extensions I actually need. I've managed to learn a keyboard shortcut for pretty much everything, and its difficult to move away from that.
My main use cases for VS are windows forms (yes, it still exists) and MAUI Blazor Hybrids.
I'm actually developing a new application with WinForms, granted it's guaranteed to run on specialized PCa for the next 10 years, but still it's amazing how it's still around.
Most IDEs have that problem. Android Studio and XCode are slow as hell, too, and they gobble up computer resources like there's no tomorrow.
VC Code, being a lightweight *_text editor_* should, of course, be faster than any full-fledged IDE.
@@justadude8716Also still developing new business applications in WinForms - while WPF, WinUI, MAUI came and went, WinForms will never die out. And for someone putting down 500 grand for an application that’s a relevant factor. And accountants don’t care about the looks, only about efficiency
this is why I still use VS2019 for c#. all that AI stuff I didn't ask for in VS2022 is just making the editor lag behind my keystrokes. for javascript, I use VSCode. it's not as lightweight as notepad++, but the ~20x ram usage is worth it.
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING
Does this mean Visual Studio 2022 (or a future release) will be available for Mac? Or has Microsoft just admitted defeat for that demographic to Rider?
I assume 2nd option
They want you to use VS code
@@DizmusT so replace an IDE with a text editor (with some nice plugins)? Can’t see that going down well.
Don’t get me wrong, I use VS code a lot, but as soon as I’m working on something substantial I’ll be wanting an IDE. Personally I swapped Visual Studio for Mac with Rider quite a long time ago but I can’t see many devs picking VS Code over Rider if you needed an IDE before.
Apparently you weren't paying attention. It is now legal to run Windows 11 ARM in Parallels on a Mac, and there is also an ARM version of Visual Studio as Alex stated. So Visual Studio 2022 is already available on a Mac, but you have to use Parallels and Windows 11 for ARM. Or you could use an older x86-64 Mac and run Windows 10 or 11 in Parallels or Windows 10 or 11 in free VMWare Fusion Player.
@@mattbosley3531 no. That’s was clear to me. However I use Visual Studio on a Mac I.e. under MacOS. I would like to continue to do so (or I would do if I had t switched to Rider). I’m not the only one either.
I don’t want to run Windows to write .Net Core code in MacOS. I want to run an IDE in MacOS.
I'm still an early-stage developer and appreciate the step-by-step mechanics of vs_code. That way I can explore each tool on its own and get familiar with its functions instead of navigating through an "overloaded" IDE. But I guess one day that will change and I will use the "ultimate toolset in the big old plastic suitcase".
Same here
Visual studio isn't the ultimate toolset in my view, I actually started there for its integrated convenience, and then as i gained more experience, I realized that it's powerful if you're focused on windows/C# development. I had to switch to VS Code for hardware development, and since then I have come to appreciate Vs Code's strength, which is flexibility and speed.
same bro
i like the fact that vs code opens in less than an hour and doesn't freeze for a full second every time i press a key
@@juniorjunior8494 vs code is good for cross platform.
The main drawback of Visual Studio 2022+ is that you need Windows to run it. And yes this is a drawback for me. .NET is not Windows-only anymore. We hosted our .NET backend on a Linux server for years now. So developing it out of Windows is essential. We make sure that what we develop does not depend on something in Windows.
Plus I don’t have to pay all that money to rund Windows cohesively within macOS.
This is why I still prefer VS Code for everything, except iOS development; and I pick up just what I need.
I don't quite get how MAUI is truly multiplatform when Microsoft will only support Windows IDEs.
Yeah, you can run VS in Parallels, but that doesn't seem legit cross-platform to me. I'm more likely to trust JetBrains tools, if Microsoft is going to play these old OS games again.
@@theontologist They always play the OS/browser games in cycles it seems. For a year or two they're all "kumbaya" then suddenly they swing back into '90s mode & try to squeeze out competition, pushing the boundaries of law.
Nobody uses Dotnet for anything important. Even Microsoft will not use it in flagship software like -Office- 365.
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 surely you're joking, right? Right???
@@joelv4495 It’s a fact.
Visual Studio was one of the reasons why I loved C# so much.
Before the C# Dev Kit was released for VS Code, the only way to get better refactoring tools on a Mac was to reach for VS for Mac. Oof. It didn't have other necessary features like shows test results updating as you work. 🤦 You need Windows and Visual Studio to get the developer experience you want.
@@SeanPoulter Rider by JetBrains is pretty good too.
???? Visual Studio is a fkn atrocity... Crashing, resource hogging, buggy, EVERYTHING is hidden behind some shit GUI, Like, just show me the build configuration I don't want your dumb text fields and check boxes.
@@th0bse_ If you want to revel in JSON configs all day, go ahead. I like to have a nice GUI for my tools.
Also VS isn't really buggy, used for almost 10 years now and never had any issues
@th0bse_ Nah, skill issues or ancient versions probably. It consumes more resources than a plain text editor like VSCode, but unless you have only 6GB of RAM then it runs just fine. And I don't remember if it ever crashed on me, so I have no idea what that is about.
I don’t use Microsoft products and often I have no idea what this guy is talking about, but I LOVE watching his videos, I often ask myself why :)
maybe you like to learn :) and my silly jokes :)
@@AZisk Now you have a poor linux fanboy hater. Lol!
If you never tried VS Code then you clearly missed something.
I personally use a mix of VS code and IntelliJ ultimate.
I never met a single person who confused Visual Studio with VS Code
try running a youtube channel with comments on :)
@@AZisk tru
I did!
If MAUI is as great as what MS claimed to be on cross platforms development, then their Visual Studio 2022/23 should build completely in MAUI. So VS for Mac can still live on
Microsoft doesn't have the resources to rewrite anything from scratch, not even redo paint right with layers and transparency
This reminds me of when I was about to graduate with an actuarial science degree, and some people advised me to learn Visual Basic. So I got a library book on the topic and was learning along - I knew BASIC from using it on an apple //e as a kid, but had never used it in a context where I could operate a GUI (all of my programming experience had been strictly via text interfaces). I couldn't work out what it had to do with Actuarial Science, though. After I got rather far along, I finally worked out that I was supposed to be learning Visual Basic as a scripting language for Excel, which was completely different from what I had been teaching myself.
Visual Studio = IDE , Visual Studio Code = Text Editor
But sometimes a specific function doesn't exists or an infuriating choice was made for Visual Studio. But the culture of vscode around extension makes that you will most likely find an extension fixing your problem, while it's not often the case with Visual Studio.
It's like if the big crate of tools include a broken one or is missing a specific screwdriver for an exotic end bit, you can have it if you build your own toolset
I once had a "friend" that tried to tell me that one of the jetbrains IDEs for lua was better than vscode. So I'm like, ok find me a feature that you have that vscode (with proper extensions) doesn't. Not only did he not find anything meaningful, but at the end he told me about the many half broken features that his IDE had and I just showed him one by one every single one of them working perfectly in vscode.
The people who say "why use VS 2022 when there is VS Code" is the very people who don't use THE Visual Studio. Gen Z I suppose? My first VS was VS 6.
My first was Visual Studio C++ 1.5
I had to work with Visual Studio for aspnet project in the past but was very happy to move to vscode when .net core became a thing and I ported the project to it. Part of that was because I didn't have to use windows anymore but also because it was lightweight and it could still do everything I needed to the point that I never had to leave it, whatever I'm doing, including database management. Also it had better terminal and tasks.
Its the ones you don't like an "IDE" you know what VS gives you.
most of gen z uses vscode because of the time they were introduced to programming, and the popularity of vscode at that time. not really their fault, but it is ignorant to dismiss other ides entirely. ide vs text editor is just a case of the right tool for the job
i haven't used VS a lot, but I'm seeing a lot less extensions for it compared to vs code. Is vs better for gamedev with unity or c++ games? and for what reasons.
I would love to run visual studio 2022 in parallels on my M1 Max MacBook Pro…in fact I did the other day. I do mobile development. The main reason I bought a Mac back in the day was to do xamarin for iOS. So the main reason I have been a fan of visual studio 2022 for Mac is because of what happened the other day. I loaded up parallels with windows 11 for arm, installed visual studio 2022 enterprise because the company I work for bought me a license. I then loaded up my latest xamarin project for android / iOS and worked on it a little bit. I noticed 2 things right away: first, it wasn’t very fast. Things ran slowly. Windows moved slowly. It took longer to build than visual studio 2022 for Mac. The second is that I heard something I hardly every here on my M1 Max Mac….the fan was going full blast. Nuf said…
Alex, I've always been confused; What's the difference between Visual Studio vs VS Code?
Please answer ASAP, sir 🙏🏼
🤦♂️ Luke!!!! Just watch this video:
th-cam.com/video/N3kuEuauWv4/w-d-xo.html
@@AZisk 🤣🤣🤣
Here's another reason to use Visual Studio vs VS Code: One of the two is a web browser acting as a text editor with a bunch of javascript helping it to pretend to be an IDE and the other is an actual IDE written in a real programming language. Also I'm glad VS for Mac is dead, it sucked.
I know right? Native apps or desktop apps have always felt much more robust than web apps (and vscode, atom, discord, etc are just apps based on the electron framework which is a way to make a web app look like a desktop app).
Why , its a great product. VS-Code doesnt have the same feature set.
it was a great product 10 years ago
@@AZisk it was my first IDE , I remember building my first project on it. Good times :'(
Not once was neovim mentioned. Not once.
Maybe if the video was named "top worst Side's"
I would compared visual studio and vscode as 'coffee' and 'redbull'
Rest In Peace Visual Studio for Mac 🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️
Also, one BIG difference between VS and VSC is that VS sports a graphic designer. You can just drag controls onto a form, set the properties, and it'll even create stubs of the event handlers that you'll need to populate with code. Also an amazing feature called Intellisense, which can anticipate what you are trying to do and provide useful suggestions. I think VSC has something of the sort but the one in VS is MUCH BETTER. Which is a Godsend for writing C#, which tends to be really verbose.
I use Visual Studio to create MVC applications and when i want to practice an algorithm. When I want to create an api, I use VScode. One window open for Angular, another for c# code.
So what will be the future of Visual Studio with a MacBook? There won’t be any native support for a Visual Studio to run on a Mac?
I recently bought a mac hoping Visual Studio for Mac would grow to the full fledged VS 2022 version. Now they drop it, any comments on it’s future? Do we have to run the windows version on parallels from now on?
yes, either windows version via parallels, or vscode with extensions
@@AZisk thanks alot for replying man 👍🏻too bad this happened 😐
I find it so funny that vscode is considered light weight. It is a giant ball of javascript bundled with the whole rendering engine of a browser.
I remember when people used to joke about Emacs being too bloated and big for an editor, practically being its own Operating System. Now it would be considered extremely lightweight.
Main reason I use code over VS proper: It supports all the languages and programming environments out of box, and does so very, very well.
While there are language specific IDEs that perform better in some instances, like CLion for hardware C code and VS for .NET, I just don't want to learn a new editor that behaves just slightly different enough for me to be annoyed by it. Shortcuts are not the same, my macros are not set up the same, et cetera.
When you are working with a dozen languages over a multitude of development tools, C99 one day, C++17 another, Rust a third day, JavaScript / React or Node.js next week, all according to the client... Not requiring the runway to learn a new IDE to be just as productive as the big bois is incredible.
VS Code is not perfect, but it is good enough that I can get to 95%+ productivity regardless. :)
We were all using Rider on Mac anyway.
I refuse to pay a monthly subscription for an IDE, when I get like 3 hours a month to work on a side project.
@@g9icy then just use vs code, or buy subscription for a year or more and you’ll get lifetime license for the product you’ve bought
1:32 the fact that VS Code is “lightweight” compared to the beast that is proper Visual Studio is pretty funny to me
VS Code is fine, it's a basic code editor which can be endlessly configured and extended. It has an extension store, and you'll find pretty much anything in there. My biggest gripe with it, is consistency. I much prefer to use an IDE that's purpose-built for something, and excels at that. As such, I mostly use Intellij Ultimate, for both Java and Typescript/angular. Some of my colleagues have ditched VS Code for Intellij. Of course, Intellij is much heavier on the CPU and memory, but it's a big boy tool, and does everything better. Except when it slows down to a crawl 😂.
We do call every soda here in Texas "cokes"...you just reenacted what happens at a Texas restaurant.
haha.
It's a south/southeastern thing. FL and GA do too b/c Coke is based out of Atlanta, and they have a generic trademark or proprietary eponym. Like how Google can mean ALL search engines in general.
everything integrated into one environment == 90GB of disk space or more.
VScode does have the built-in feature of being the veganism of developer tools.
byom (bring your own meat)
Im a game dev using C# for unity. Well I chose vscode over visual studio because performance. My potato pc can’t handle all intergraded software features that I might not need. I rather hav vscode with only essential tools for my project with saved ton of performance for other tasks. And also to mention visual studio installer used 20GB while Vscode used like 3 or 4GB. It’s a win win ig
The helium voice bumped my focus to 100% for a short period of time :)
Same here: also a geek using VSCode on Windows, Mac & Linux. Love it!
Its simple Coding editor vs IDE everyone knows the difference between them dont make it too hard to explain this 😅.
VS 2022 is fully integrated development kit, while VSCode is just a code editor basic one without code running or debugging capabilities unless you add extensions its that simple.😊
" Why do I drink coffee if there is water " well one is clearly better, water.
Said no programmer ever! 😉
@@GarryGri if you need some sort of drugs to make your brain work that is up to you lol
3:42 Fun fact: text files can be managed with version control. They can be easily compared to see what has changed. Can your binary project format offer that?
What is my binary project format?
2:19 I live and grew up in Texas, everyone here knows when I say I want a coke what I am asking for is a Big Red. Except when I am wanting a Dr Pepper, then I ask for a coke and everyone knows I'm wanting a Dr Pepper. The only problem comes when I'm wanting a Mr Pibb and ask for a coke, partly because Mr Pibb was switched to Pibb Xtra in 2001 and partly because I live in a city where Coca-Cola is bottled so, despite all being owned by the same company, they don't sell Pibb in cities where a bottling plant is or where Dr Pepper is sold. You can't get there from here. In any case, in that case, saying coke but wanting a Pibb, I usually get served some off-brand Root Beer. There are limits to our dialect. And just so you know, I never want a Coca-Cola when I ask for a coke, who does? coKe !Coca-Cola.
Thank you for making this video, I’m a junior developer. Usually my boss (non tech guy) won’t trust what I said or explain. So this video help me out
Many PhD students and researchers use VScode for its simplicity, integrations and multiplatform nature. And yes , I am one of that weirdos loving pain, as I used Kate on Linux for my Cython programming 🤓
By the way, I use JetBrains.
I for one am very annoyed with Microsoft’s official solution for windows on apple silicon being use parallels
VS Code is the only thing Microsoft has ever done right. That said, there's time and space to ruin it.
Thank god, I thought from the title they were killing VS 2022 & forcing us all to VS Code. Starting a new project in VS, just brings me joy. It is one of my favourite applications. The only disappointment is they no longer make an add-in for developing powershell.
VSCode -> React
VS2022 -> Angular
OK...the "coke/pepsi" bit made me LoL. Great video, as per usual.
Vim and nvim are for basically for small text editing (config editing, small bash scripts, etc.), vscode is for actual programming projects (although i use vscodium which doesnt have ms tracking) visual studio is for unity development
Edit: these are my use cases
Your sense of humor is a force to be reckoned with. I'm definitely following 😂😂
Thank for the clarity.
glad you enjoyed it
Rust "people" 💀
VS for Mac never felt right to me. It felt like a copy of MonoDevelop, even, who knows, maybe Xamarin Studio actually came from that first.
I wouldn't mind if macOS had Visual Studio natively too, especially given that Parallels Desktop isn't free.
I love PEPSI !!!!! Taste better than CC and has less sugar !! TOP
To ones who are curious why they just don't port VS to other platforms, it is not because they don't want market share, but because they have made the editor in C++ which often relies on system libraries, which are different on every OS. Regarding VSCode, I think that it was a massive misunderstanding with the name, in linux it's just named "code", but "code" is a pretty unsearchable name, so they add the VS in front. Fun fact, there is nothing visual in VSCode, while VS offered programmers a visual representation of their GUI programs instead of forcing them to start their programs each time to see the result, it was (still is but isn't used) a simple way to design desktop and web program by just dragging the elements on the screen.
Why isn't it used though
@@stickguy9109 Because visual editors lack flexibility. Editing manually the GUI code results in something that the visual editor cannot display or edit, resulting in displaying something which is wrong, and because it has some logic on how to save the elements on the screen, it can remove your code. That's why the visual element is used only when you do simple desktop programs and not for programs that need to be displayed on different resolutions and aspect ratios. Back in the day, the designs were simple, but as time went on, a different approach was needed. With "hot reload", programmers just save their changes while the program is running and their GUI is updated.
Strange, isn’t it, that other developers, particularly open-source ones, know how to write cross-platform code in C++ and other languages, but Microsoft can’t figure it out.
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 It's not really about that, it is about having a big azz program with lines of code reaching the millions, which makes the port harder than it should be. There was something else that I did not mention and that is, the file system and window managers which communicate differently on different OSes, making it even harder to port.
@@user-dc9zo7ek5j The Linux kernel is over 20 million lines of code and counting. That has been ported to about two dozen different major processor architectures. No proprietary software product can match that.
That’s the biggest, but there are others. E.g. Blender at about 1.5 million lines.
AKA, Microsoft fails yet again. Seriously, I'm a developer and (way back) MCSE, but I figured out a long time ago every time I start to give MS a chance, they blow it. I was just starting to give .Net a second look, and they do this (sigh).
Visual Studio for Mac really helped in my final project as my judges want a GUI where I can demonstrate my project and VSC didn't provide that. So I searched and found VS for Mac but I had to link to Xcode... was a hassle but I passed. RIP Visual Studio for Mac
After about 20 years of Visual Studio I moved to IntellJ last year for all my development tasks. Using Webstorm instead of vscode and Rider instead of Visual Studio. And I do like it a lot.
“No pain, No gain” -Vim user, probably
😂
I ll be happy when finally vscode allows detach script window from the main program and use it in the other monitor.
If you said to me you were Jeff Bezos's younger brother, I'd actually believe you.
You mean to say,
Visual Studio Code: It can have extensions to make you feel that it just works...
Visual Studio: It comes with language specific features with every "language-feature" based features built-in and actually just works...
I wish the Visual Foxpo interface had become a VGER. The command window. Thank you. The data browser. The desktop where you could throw graphics, text. I ran PerI from Foxpro and had it show up in Foxpro. just liked the design of the barebones interface. The command window, the active desktop, and the browser. I just want that basic interface but evolved with lots of new guts.
You are not alone. I also use Linux, Mac, and Windows as well.
As a C#/ Angular dev I use both. I swear that the Visual Studio developers must be really pissed off that they aren't allowed to add the editor functionality that is in VS Code. Like easy code reformatting as well as linting which is so temperamental.
Funnily enough the "coke" analogy is true in some countries.
In Egypt you ask for a "Pepsi" and the response would be: Sure, what kind?
So I use Jetbrains all products, I never trust Microsoft.
Yes! I also use Visual Studio on my Mac by Paralles😀
Even if Visual Studio for Mac didn't have feature parity with the Windows version, it is still immensely useful and preferable for C# development, as it can run on the MacOS directly without needing the overhead of running Windows, in a VM or otherwise, and it is integrated unlike VS Code.
I really dislike VS code mainly because it's an electron app and it eats memory for breakfast. I will give them credit though because they did make a standard for the LSP which is extremely good. Prior to that everyone just had their own language extension apis and it made it really difficult to transfer them between text editors. So even though I use emacs (Yes you can laugh), I still get the benefits of the LSP systems from VS code. Also when I make TH-cam videos, I use VS code because it's easier for people to understand what I'm doing and I don't have to explain buffers and vim keys/emacs chords. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't use VS code at all.
Broke guy who can't afford RAM over here.
Please tell me you dont go htop every few minutes
@@edenassos got plenty of memory. My desktop has 128 gigs. Still doesn't mean that I want a text editor to use over 2 gigs on it's own. It's pure waste born from the app being built with JavaScript and electron. Emacs and vim on the other hand use maybe 100megs of ram.
i’m glad you did this video. i was wondering what i was missing out on since ditching Vs for vscode, five years ago. code has been ticking all the boxes… but i can now see that some performance tools are missing
I use VS Mac when I absolutely have to, but other than that I spend 99% of my time in Jetbrains RIDER, a greatly superior cross-platform IDE that runs like a dream on macOS.
The comparison with water and coffee was perfect :D
Wow, this man has an excellent sense of humor) It's probably the funniest tech news/review/talk I've ever watched.
The example conversation about Coke sounds like a normal restaurant conversation in Texas.
I used Visual Studio first with Unity Engine and then at my job I used Visual Studio. I was so surprised to learn that even the keyboard shortcuts were different between the two. It made no sense to me why MS would do that. Of course you can change the keyboard mappings, but still.
Microsoft IDE marketing is like the Apple of consumer device marketing.
the difference is simple: Visual Studio is the best IDE while vs code is the best text editor
That's one more reason I think Microsoft should adopt Rider as the main IDE for .NET platform, even for Windows.
I love your sense of humor 😹
Visual Studio IDE where I work, Visual Studio Code where I play.
Why be excited for killing it for Mac instead of being disappointed they never made it a direct parallel to the Windows version? Wouldn’t you want to use just one OS instead of having added steps and a yearly subscription? I’m not mad about it, just puzzled by the reaction
yes. but it was never going to happen. id rather have more resources focused on making visual studio for arm better
@@AZisk Totally understand your perspective. Let’s hope future editions of VS Studio brings killer features
My experience
Visual studio code did NOT need half of my ssd just for and 100% of my ram
Visual Studio did not give me inferior debugger and didn't break when making more than 1000 lines of code and multiple files
Honestly, visual studio have better gui builder than other. I just missed it, we can drag and drop, resize, move visually without looking at styles code.
I never ever use VS Code all what I do I do it in Visual Studio. I am a C# developer and I love it and that's all I know. 👍
The thing is Visual Studio doesn't support R.
Wow, I"m STILL SO CONFUSED now. I have "Visual Studio Code 1.92" on my Windows computer, but I use it only EXTREMELY RARELY because I just did not understand it much. IS THAT NOW ALSO BEING OBSOLETED ALREADY? This happened to me often that Microsoft just pulled the plug out from whatever I was using.
VSCode is basically chrome with built-in Chrome extension store
I remember using Visual Studio 2008 to learn C#. Good days ❤
Bring back VB 6!
I wasn't aware that Visual Studio for Mac existed so I don't really know how to feel about it going away. I stopped using Visual Studio years ago because of integration... err bloat that caused the IDE to slow to a crawl and essentially become unusable. I was thrilled when Visual Studio Code became a thing and still use it today.
VSCode is as light as a feather, Visual Studio is the mass of a black hole
vscode, light as a feather? my 2012 netbook disagrees...
i'd rather grant that title to sublime, or neovim
Yes VSCode is lighter but as a feather?? win7 is lighter than VSCode and its a whole os (yeah I over exaggerated but I meant electron is not light at all).
I've been using Visual Studio since 2013, and the current version I am using is 2019. I started using VSCode since 2021, and to me, it felt like using Microsoft Word and then moving to notepad.
But this might feel different to others. By the way, this is not VSCode vs. other IDE, but Visual Studio vs. VSCode.
It may be fast enough for some person. But it never be light-weight because it’s Electron-based app.
Microsoft deleting the competitions like it is still the '90s
And VS Code is light, lighter than VS 2022, xD Greetings, Alex!
Welcome back. Haven't seen you for a while. Yes, VSCode is much lighter.
@@AZiskYOU MISSED ME AND REMEMBER ME?! Yeah, a lot of work, I've to catch up a lot of your videos, xD Stay safe and keep the good work!
Also use Mac windows and Linux daily…had zero idea Visual Studio was available on Mac and I’m still not sure why.
Studio also has all the reporting functionality that you can build into C# applications.
The odd thing about Visual STudio, yeah it has stuff built, but not everything is installed out of the box, you may not need all of its features.
You only setup what you need for your project.
I like to compare it to buying a Dell laptop off the shelf with everything built in/ready to go, and buying a Raspberry Pi with extra required hardware and software but loads of more customization.