NT Wright on Gnosticism, the Created Order, Gender and Trans Identity
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2024
- In this thoughtful clip from the Ask NT Wright Anything podcast, NT Wright delves into questions surrounding transgender identity and gender 🌍✨, addressing contemporary issues with a lens informed by Christian theology 📖. Wright explores the concept of Gnosticism 🧩 as it relates to modern understandings of the body and identity, clarifying points from a previous article where he discussed these themes. Wright discusses Gnosticism's dualistic view - where spirit and body are separated -and clarifies that, in Christian belief, the created order is to be redeemed, not rejected. He highlights the biblical teaching that "the heart is deceitful above all things" (Jeremiah 17:9) and references Jesus’ words that it is from the heart that actions proceed (Mark 7:21). This perspective invites faith communities to engage thoughtfully, kindly and compassionately 💬❤️ with questions and members of of gender and identity.
#NTWright #AskNTWrightAnything #genderidentity #transgender #christiantheology #gnosticism #faithandgender #biblicalperspective #christianpodcast #theologytalk
• Subscribe to the Unbelievable? podcast: pod.link/26714...
• More shows, free eBook & newsletter: premierunbelie...
• For live events: www.unbelievabl...
• For online learning: www.premierunb...
• Support us in the USA: www.premierinsi...
• Support us in the rest of the world: www.premierunb...
When I was a teenager in the 1970s, my female cousin and I were at the cottage my grandfather built by a lake, and some wood needed to be chopped. We decided that sounded like fun and tried our hand at chopping wood. Later that day, I was knitting. My grandfather had done some mental processing of it being ok for girls to chop wood - but he did it by thinking we had decided to take on the boy's role. And here I was knitting. So he saw that as contradictory.
No, I hadn't decided to be like a boy instead of being like a girl. I had decided to try my hand at chopping wood. And later I felt like knitting. My gender neither prohibits me nor requires me to do either one.
A problem I have with the trans idea is that it's putting altogether too much stock in which gender a person is. We can be free to be ourselves in the bodies we were given.
hi, as a trans person, the whole "we can be free with the bodies we were given" sounds like "you can get over your depression by just being less sad".
gender dysphoria is a disorder that comes from a physical mismatch between the sex of their body and the sex their brain is programed to run. you would get dysphoria if you were forced onto testosterone. i just really struggle to understand what about your experience is relevant to my experience being trans.
@fakename-r7q your not a trans person. Their is no such category of human beings. Your just a person like me and everyone else.
I would say that you can overcome trans feelings just like any other sinful inclination. Will it be easy? Probably not. But through Jesus all sin can be put in subjection.
I encourage you to stop identifying yourself through your sexuality and illness and begin to explore other aspects of your identity. You may be able to draw strength from that which exists outside the ideological framework of transgenderism.
@@tyronedawson8553 you are very arrogant, even for a christian. the bible never said being trans is a sin, you just made that up because youre kinda awful and assume everything you dont like or understand is a sin. the way you speak to others is truly disgusting and people like you are why i have such a distaste for christians. you truly make your god and your religion seem awful. i dont know who raised you, but they did not raise you to be kind, compassionate, understanding, respectful, or anything good.
i encourage you to learn some basic manners. the way you christians treat the lgbt is just cruel. if your gods "love" feels as hatefilled as you then i want nothing to do with it.
@@tyronedawson8553 An identity with Christ is still an identity. I dont see the actual argument here youre proposing. Already assuning that this lady here has sinned.
@kiminobigballs4167 an identity with Christ is a biblical identity and it affirms a spiritual truth. Trans identity affirms a rejection of biological reality.
I don't think I assumed anything about anyone's sins. I try to keep my response focused on what they actually say and stay away from personal attacks. Ideas are my focus in responses.
If I did falsely accuse someone or misunderstand I apologize.
In short, Christians must reject the homosexual and trans identity agenda.
Wright is correct by focusing on the heart as being the inward feelings/values of an individual. Live by those inward perceptions, and transgenderism might be the result. Isn't that what the Gospel indeed confronts with the outward-originating, spiritual viewpoint? Great discussion!
Philosopher Nancy Pearcy's approach to speaking to transgenders has been helpful to me. She says it is a good springboard to draw attention to their "cognitive dissonance," which means holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time.
Most transgenders believe in scientific materialism: reality is only what you see. If that is the case however, one needs to accept what one's physical body tells them. If there is a reality beyond the physical, then we need to discover what the truth of that is? Then merge into apologetics on the Bible's view.
physical reality includes brain structures. there is no way to force a trans persons brain to not be trans, there is a way to change the bodies phenotypic sex.
i really wish you would just admit that you are confused instead of projecting your confusions onto trans people. its just rude
Very well explained, thank you.
Going to have to agree with the other comments. You must agree that certain aspects of gender are, indeed socially constructed-what clothing signifies masculinity, femininity, and so on is cultural, not natural. These things are becoming less rigid these days because modern societies don't need to reinforce gender roles in the ways that they once did, what with birth control, woman's rights, and so on. But, at its core, gender is not something that can be "wished upon you by people other than you." There is growing evidence that there are physiological differences between transgender people (a very small minority of the population) and cis people. Yes, young people get to play with gender expression in more visible ways these days, but kids and teens have always done so to some degree, just as they are now able to explore sexual attraction more openly but have always done so in secret. Those who are genuinely transgender are not simply persuaded by others to believe that they are so. The social pressure is still overwhelmingly to conform to their sex. It is not easy to be medically recognized as transgender and to get the proper medical help-nobody gets to transition on a whim.
@terrencebucker how gender is expressed can be influenced by culture, but gender is immutable. Their are no nuances in the fact that you are either a man or woman and should express yourself in a way that reflects this reality.
Their are no transgender people. On male and female people. Sin leads to all forms of delusions that reject Gods creative order. The ideology of trangenderism is only one.
@terrencebucker you make numerous statements that affirm an ideology that is inaccurate and unbiblical.
1. "Modern societies don't need to reinforce gender roles"
Their is no evidence that the departure from gender roles has been a positive change within soceity as a whole. In fact, historically, the move towards sexual liberation has always proceeded a societal collapse.
2."gender is not something that can be wished"
This is true in that gender and sex are the same thing. A male is a male, and a female is a female.
However, the trend of transgenderism as a movement is in part caused by social media and its influence on the minds of young boys and girls.
3. "Physiological differences between transgender people"
This proves nothing. Their are physiological differences between all people. What needs to be shown is that trans people are genetically different ( in their DNA and chromosomes) in such a substantial way that we can test your blood for trans traits. This will never happen because such markers do not exist
At the end of the day. Trans people are just people like me and you who don't wanna conform to the reality of their biology.
@@tyronedawson8553 I think you lack of understand on what "psychological differences" means in the context of therapy is doing a lot of the heavy lifitng in this argument of yours
@kiminobigballs4167 you can think that, but you'd be wrong.
Trans ideology is fundamentally based on a denial of reality. It is self-evident that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. I think it is particularly cruel to promote something that clearly disconnects people from what's real.
@kiminobigballs4167 psycological or physiological. Im not following your point. Restate it please.
this is how you can tell if someone is a real christian, if they have yielded to social pressures of sin to claim that god supports gays and trans or if they will stand by the bible which is very clear on this
“What I have written, I have written.” Let’s see . . . Where does that quote come from???
Pontius Pilate
I disagree. Those scriptures are not addressing all of humanity and what exists. If you are born with both a vagina and penis. What are you suppose to do? You cannot impose an ancient worldview on modern discoveries and science. You cannot impose the majority on a minority and act is if they do not exist. Transgender and gay people have always been here. It is the church that has ignored them. We have two straight white men up on here talking as if their experiences are universal. The constant downplaying of your feelings and emotions is a cult tactic for control and emotional abuse/manipulation. The identity argument is total B.S. as if straight people don't look to their feelings and emotions to form their self and get a sense of who they are. You can have an identity and take on Christ. Why are these two married if they didn't go by their feelings?
Hi! Cis, straight, white male here. Thank you for this comment. If you are interested, I would like to discuss the question of feelings as an identity marker or tool to make decisions. I think there are some distinctions to be made. If you are speaking as a Christian, I think you would agree that our identity comes from God, not from our ever changing feelings. To let go of the old man and wear the new man is, in a way, the work of aligning one's feelings on Christ's. Anyone, regardless of gender or sexual orientation would have this identity anchor in heaven, and the same duty.
Now, regarding the feelings in one's heart, they are not inherently misaligned with their identity in Christ and it is not a sin to go along with them, as long as they are confirmed by the truth, the revelation of the Bible. There you will have people disagree over what it says on sexuality, but the decision making of a Christian should be more a question of understanding the scriptures than to rely on one's feelings. Ultimately, accepting Christ as king means that your feelings will need to be subjugated to His will at some point, because there is evil in everyone's heart. So Tom and Justin's marriages would be an acceptable way to follow their feelings, as it does not contradict the revelation. Now, wether a gay marriage does or not contradict revelation becomes a question of understanding scriptures rather than of the place of feelings in the Christian faith. Would you agree with that assessment?
I am writing in a friendship spirit. Have a good day!
@@insisyphemat6540 Everyone negotiates the scripture, no matter what they will tell you. God is the author of feelings and emotions. Emotions are important because they safe guard us. Sexuality and gender identity are an innate part of who you are as a person which does not in any way contradict a person's identity in Christ. The identity argument is just a way to invalidate the lived experiences of others and claim that they are not true Christians because they have not denied themselves. Taking on the identity of Christ does not equal denying the way in which God has created you from the beginning. I use the example of the two men's marriages to point out the hypocrisy and double standards when evangelicals discuss feelings. If they don't go based on their feelings...they wouldn't have a marriage or have dated or had sex. How do they know that person is what God wants for them? Is solely based on interpretation of scripture? Subjugating your feelings to Christ and examining your choices or thoughts to do better in this life, to love your neighbor, to walk humbly with your God, to love mercy and act justly, does not involve denying reality or God's creation and the least of these among us.
Thank you for your answer. I don't think we will agree, because I think the Scriptures really drive the point of distrusting our own feelings. I don't think that this pertains exclusively to marriage or sexuality, but rather I see the distrust we are to have of our feelings as a core ingredient of the Christian faith. I would have tended to agree more with you if you said that gay marriage is okay because it is approved by Scripture rather than because our feelings are always good on their own. Thank you for clarifying your point of view.
@NC-vz6ui feelings that contradict reality need to be rejected. That's the first thing we have to acknowledge. The second is that gender is determined by biology, not feelings. That's not only a biblical truth it's a scientific truth.
If a person is born with a vagina and a penis they have a deformity. It is abnormal, and something has gone wrong. We don't redefine and reorder soceity around that.
The Bible applies to all generations and all time periods because it is the word of God.
I've tried to address some of your comments. You are basically misinformed and clearly have some emotional attachment to trans ideology.
@@NC-vz6ui um Christianity commands us to deny and die to self. So, if you refuse to do this, you're not a Christian.
"Nobody saw this coming." Really?
But we already accept that people have genders in a way we don't accept that they are pandas. Meaning, when a person says they are a "woman," I understand what they mean in a way a I don't understand a person who says they are a panda. It would seem any ontological speculation beyond this is self-serving and obtuse. "Gender dysphoria" has a long history in many cultures, its certainly nothing new. The only thing that is new is such people insisting upon their right to exist as they choose, which hardly seems worth arguing about.
Are you here to learn or to podium your opinion?
@@mattmckeown9806 really? And I suppose you are willing to teach me by getting on your podium and sharing your opinion. How droll.
@@ericb9804 Yes really a question. As far as I am aware God is the only omniscient being. Loving debate should not be a diatribe of someone who has no desire to see others perspectives.
@@mattmckeown9806 Ok, then I'm not really interested in your sermon, no. As far as I am aware, there is no god, which is exactly why those who insist there is always seem to be using the idea as a cudgel to push their own agenda, even as we speak right now: For why is it that sharing your opinions is "loving debate" while sharing mine is a "diatribe?" You haven't given me any reason to think your "perspective" is anything more than a shocking lack of self-awareness.
@@ericb9804 Excuse me I have to go and troll some athiest youtube channels...
Lumping everyone with gender dysphoria into the category of gnosticism is an overly reductive rhetorical move from someone who can otherwise be a careful thinker. Wright hints that his pastoral approach might be more nuanced, but starting the conversation off by handwringing over things like people wanting to be pandas or mermaids is merely latching onto extreme ends of culture-war pearl-clutching rather than focusing on the well-studied psychological topic of gender identity.
Surely we battle against the powers and principalities behind these things, rather than the flesh and blood, though set in the background of broken and wounded humanity.
I agree with N.T. It ultimately comes down to the denial of outer reality for inner reality. All transgenders do this.
@@mattmckeown9806 But the point is, its unclear what you think you are "battling" or even why you feel the need to "battle" in the first place. Its unclear in what sense humanity is "broken and wounded" beyond just seeming to exist in a way you refuse to acknowledge.
One thing that the last five years have proven beyond any doubt is that the topic of gender identity has not been "well-studied" by the psychological professions.
@@Helmutandmoshe That is wholly disingenuous. Just because a topic is controversial doesn't mean it isn't "well-studied." Which isn't to say we don't have more to learn, just that videos such as this show how easy it is to be willfully ignorant of such studies and yet still feel compelled to offer opinions.
I have lost all respect for N T Wright. He must save his Judeo Christian fairytale to keep his job. He knows the ancient texts do not support what he is teaching. You can stay in your Christian bubble if you want, or you can embrace reality. This is all there is. There is no God. The Bible is not a revelation from God.
Why are seemingly well spoken, educated people using Jewish folklore and myth (Bible) as a reference point for all things modern?
@Austinite333 this statement would be valid if you were educated in biblical history and theology. These are the statements of a person who hasn't researched the historical validity of the biblical account and latched onto atheistic talking points.
Outside of the spiritual revelation within the Bible o ly a fool would deny the overarching wisdom revealed within the pages of the book that has influenced every single culture on earth. Smh
@ So when someone exposes your fairytales you call them uneducated and a fool. I expected no less.
@Austinite333 are you implying that you have done enough research to reach the logical conclusion that the Bible is akin to a fairytale and contains all the components of imaginative literature.
If not... you are, as I said, making an uneducated truth claim.
If you have done the research, please share the top 3 reasons you reject the bible.
You haven't exposed anything as of yet. You've only made claims.
@@tyronedawson8553 One does not have to get deep into Genesis to have their BS detectors start flashing. So according to one version God creates the Earth, the animals and then Adam. Eve has not been created. God tasked Adam with naming the animals. My question to you is please tell me what language Adam was speaking when naming the animals? How could the only human being on the planet possibly have a language when there was no one else to talk to? And who recorded this? Moses?
@Austinite333 Good questions, but if you begin with the premise that God created Adam, your question doesn't make any sense. Again, you display ignorance.
God created the universe through words and then created Adam in His image. Wouldn't it be logical for Adam to be able to use words?
So, again, why do you reject the biblical account? You can't refute a claim you don't understand, and you clearly don't understand the bible.
So, on what basis do you claim it's a fairytale. So far, you have failed to convince me, sir.