I requested a video on this a few months back, awesome to see it. I picked up some Sherwin-Williams oil base primer and latex acrylic enamel paint on their Black Friday sale. Will start painting soon, but not dipping. Thanks Mr. Bob, you’re a wealth of knowledge. Happy New Year!
25 years is a long time for wood to last in that area of the US. If you are going to do something do it right. Great info you have shared. Wax dipping might be great but for a smaller bee operation your linseed oil method can be done with little investment. Thanks Bob. I've used boiled linseed oil mixed with some beeswax and orange oil for my honey supers. I let them breath or age for about three months and had no problem with them. They only stay on for a few months and then they are back in storage so after one year of use they still look new. If I get 10 years of use out of them will be enough because I doubt if I'll worry about them when I'm 80.
Bob, I want to thank you for being so very thorough in your description and showing us wht you do, and explaining WHY. I liked the fact that you mix the 'Frog's Blood' (What we call the green copper napthenate!!!) and Linseed oil. Wen I built my fence at my house, this was the same mix I used!!! I was very happy to see the similar mindset. For my hive box primer, I am instead using a water based clear exterior polyurethane varnish. I had concerns of the frog's blood being bad for the bees, and the two good features of the water-based urethane is it dries rock hard, and bugs, (moth larvae especially) do not chew into it like they do raw wood or waxed wood. And, there is no residual oils or scent, and I have fond the bees do not mind it at all. The good stuff isn't cheap, just like your process....... Thank you for such great guidance and tips for cost savings!!! Always appreciated; Paul Romanowski.
Thanks, Bob! I love your videos. Beautiful shop!! It must be a pleasure to work there. It’s nice that you give kudos to your crew. Best wishes for the new year!
Quick tip…If you store your extra dip in five gallon buckets I would recommend that you double the buckets. My brand new blue Lowe’s bucket cracked last night, and now I have a mess in the shop. The boxes look great though.
I was afraid of this recipe slowly effecting any plastics, so I plan on storing any leftovers in the metal 1 gallon cans the Mineral Spirits came in and just relabel the cans..
I use that Zinsser cover stain and that stuff is great, but the fumes are no joke. It's so good though I don't mind having to wear a respirator when working with it.
Oil based primer with a latex enamel topcoat will hold out longer than anything else. The oil primer will penetrate the wood and grip better. Especially over wood that has been dipped than weathered in Bob's preservative mix. The latex enamel will resist the elements and won't dry out and flake as quickly as an oil topcoat. That's also why Sherwin Williams will warranty their latex products far longer than their oil based top coats.
I really enjoy your videos. I'm a beekeeper in Ohio and just bought a "get-away" home in Blairsville, GA. Would love to take a road trip on the motorcycle next summer to visit your business.
I use Hi-bor treated lumber here in HI for my woodenware. Given the hundreds of cutouts I have done where the hive is surrounded by Hi-bor treated lumber and plywood, I would figure it isn't harming the bees.
Hi Bob- could find this in the comments: How long do you dip the wood in the material? Just enough to coat - or do you let it soak for a period of time?
Bob, Thanks for your videos! Those are some great looking boxes, I’ve always favored white color paint for bee boxes. I do have a couple of questions for you. Do you paint the top and bottom edges of the boxes? Do you build your 10 frame boxes, if so do you have a video on that? I see your handles and conners have different cuts than your Nuc boxes. Thanks for all of your help! I’m definitely looking forward to seeing and hearing you at the Bee Conference in TN.
Hi Don. I have a friend that states it's a borderline sin not paint beehives white. Of course he was smiling when he said that. These days we purchase most of our ten frame boxes but when we did make them we made them the way as our nuc boxes. We don't paint the top and bottom edges if they have been treated with wood preservative.
Those look like Mann Lake boxes. If so, do you encounter fitment issues with them? Their frames are great but I’ve found their hive bodies and supers to be hit and miss when it comes to proper fitting and alignment; mostly miss.
Hey, Bob. I’d like to see your process too. Does time the boxes are submerged or the temperature of the mixture play a part of your process? How big is your tub? Anyway, thanks for your videos. I really enjoy watching them!
@@twapiaries1938 We leave equipment soak for a few seconds in a tub which is about 20% bigger than a deep box and temperature doesn't seem to make any difference.
Hi Kevin. I have a few boxes that are 20 years old that got this treatment, but with no paint. They look like weathered siding on an older house but are not rotting and are still there.
Hi Bob, I'm making 250 colonies and a couple hundred nucs. I'm making the lids and the bottoms in a really cheap kind of plywood. In my country, we call it OSB. My idea is to wax dip it in paraffin and after that painting with some good paint. In this video, you've said that it's not easy to do that. What kind of problem can I have? Thank you for your time and for sharing all your knowledge.
I may have been referring to the idea that it's tricky to paint over wax dipped equipment. It has to be done at just the right time for the paint to stick. I suggest trying a few pieces to get it figured out before setting up to do a lot at one time.
That Tenino brand you have in the video ‘ for smaller users ‘ is available in Europe . It has 2 percentages on it though 17% and 2% as metal . When you refer to the 8% cunap in your video is it the overall % or the % as metal ?
Hello frome Greece make very good job personal i deep boxes in parafin. Also like to have my boxes paint first paint my boxes to plastic collor that use to paint the inside of house and after deep my boxes in parafin .
I notice that in your video you use 8% copper Naphthenate concentrate but the bottle you show as an example is 16% copper naphthenate. Is it necessary to dilute? Many Thanks
Hi Bob , I treat all my brood boxes because they are out year round in the elements, But find no need to treat honey boxes as they spend most of their life in the storage shed. Is this what you do or do you treat all boxes? Clint from NZ
If it’s the same sprayer used for the primer it’s probably a Graco X5 or similar model. It’s on amazon for a little less than Home Depot.... hers the link amzn.to/3nkz8t4 Great video Bob!
Hey! Hope this finds you doing well! I have a few questions. I’m prepping equipment for the Spring. Is it too late to dip the boxes, season and paint to use by this spring? In mixing everything together, can I mix it in a tote? Should I dip the unassembled boxes in it and lay to dry or best to build and then dip? Does it matter? Is there an amount of time I should leave them in? Thank you so much! See you at GBA conference!
Hi Angela. You still have time. We like to assemble and the dip so they will air out quicker. After dipping stack them them out in the sun and the rain.
Does it matter if the mineral spirits is low odor, odorless, or can paint thinner be used? The information that you post in your videos is greatly appreciated, and I have learned countless things from your many videos and years of experience. Thanks for all that you do!
Because we let our boxes air out and season in the weather for at least a couple of months I not sure it matters. I know of some beekeepers that use kerosene to keep costs down but of course I have to be careful not to openly say that's the way to go.
Hi Bob, I have one question. Since there is no copper naphthenate in my country, is it good or bad to dip boxes in a water solution of copper II sulphate pentahydrate (bluestone)?
Bob, if one were to scuff the inside of the hive for propolis deposit around broodnest, would this treatment only go on outside edges, or it should be ok inside the hive box too?
What’s the shelf life on your mixture? Thoughts on EcoWood treatment? Thinking about dipping supers in the EcoWood and I know it only has a shelf life of 1 year after mixed.
I'm not sure what the shelf life for our mixture is. It seems to be fine if we carry it over from one year to the next. I don't have any personal experience with EcoWood.
Thanks Bob, great video. After you dip them in the copper napthenate mixture and season dry them. How or are you painting the places where each box contacts the next box. Do you paint that seam or does dipping take care of that? Happy new year
I am just starting off learning how to waxdipp as a wood preservative. I have also used "Shou Sugi Ban " a japaneese burn and brush method to close the fibers in the wood. As you mention, it is hard to paint. Therefor am I experimenting with plantcolouring before I waxdipp. I will continuesly seek for the best plant/muchroom to boild in colour into the wood. The I dry the wood in a room with an airdryer. Put the precis together and waxdipp. Since you've been "doing bees" for such a long time... have you ever come across something similar? Do you have any suggestions? Lot's of love from Sweden!
@@bobbinnie9872 so far the plantcolour from Aronia is still bright in the wood. One has to be loving bees if still awake waxdipping at 04.02 am😉 Aronia was a good choise. Still lila after waxdipping. I wish I could share fotos on TH-cam. Then you could see for yourself. I got 2 shades of lila from this batch. Some boxes where in the colour for 2 days , some for a week. Those who where in for 2 days got a bright shade. Those for a week a dark shade. Next year I try to grow tumeric to plancolour with. Aronia will turn greyish when it ages. Hope the bees will like thoose boxes. It will be interesting to follow if the plantcolour will be persist. You can go in on Kamon Reynolds fb page, there are some photos.
Thanks for posting Bob & best wishes for a happy and productive New Year. I would think you have had a good bit of experience with wax dipping. In your experience, is it possible or even recommended to add Copper Naphthenate to melted wax? I try to do everything I can to stave off the fire ants. They are terribly destructive to the boxes.
You could dip them first in the copper and after they've cured do a wax dip. Lot of work I suppose but maybe worth it. I didn't know fire ants eat wood. Glad we don't have them here in MN. When I lived in TX I got bit many times with them little bastards. Hate them things.
Thanks, there's not much out there on using copper. I mixed 5/20/5 of copper/mineral spirits/linseed. It was in a 55 gallon drum and over the summer either evaporated or leaked out, not sure which. What do you use to store and dip in?
@@eugencristianradut7968 We store whatever is left over in buckets. It usually needs to be stirred before using it again because it settles and turns thick at the bottom. No problem storing it as long as the bucket is sealed.
@@bobbinnie9872 finally, i did the mixture and dipped some woood in it. The wood's texture changed a lot, and varies a lot, like in your video, the wood surface is a little oily, thanks to the lindseed oil, and the smell is not that strong, thanks to the white spirit odourless properties, and the diluted mixture. Hard to find CuNap 8% here, in Europe. I used boiled lindseed oil, and intend to paint after two weeks. Plenty of good whishes to the BIG BOSS !!
Bob, I know this is an older video but would buying flaxseed oil work as good as linseed oil? I found a supplier that sells it cheaper than buying the linseed version.
Hi Bob! Thanks for the great info! I have a couple questions if I may. The first is that, I believe you stated, you prefer raw linseed oil instead of boiled because the BLO has petroleum ingredients in it. However, your mixture has mineral spirits, which is petroleum based, so my question is why then does it matter if you use raw linseed oil instead of boiled? Second, your mixture quantities are for I assume 1000’s of boxes, can you say how much product is needed per box? Trying to recalculate since I would only be doing a dozen or so boxes at a time. Thanks!
Hi Andrew. Raw linseed oil is the purest form, but is sometimes impractical for wood workers due to the extended drying times. It can take several weeks for raw linseed oil to cure. Boiled linseed oil is more common as a wood finish because it dries much faster but contains some potentially hazardous drying compounds. I know mineral spirits isn't exactly food grade and that's one of the reasons we let the boxes season a while before we use them. I've never had any problems. I'm guessing that dipping 12 deep boxes uses about one gallon of mixture.
Hi Bob! Before I painted my hives with enamel paint, I gave them 2 coats of linseed oil, but only on outside parts of hive. Would it have been good to apply linseed oil on the inside too? Happy new year!!!
I thought that by dipping the hives in that copper napthenate and linseed oil mixture, it would get inside the hive as well . What is the mixture ratio?
@@norbertalbu6616 Dipping does get treatment on the inside as well but I'm OK with that because of the time we let it season outside in the weather. I know many people are concerned with the idea of the bees being exposed to it, especially if they can't wait for seasoning. In this case treating the edges and outside is the next best step. Our wood preservative recipe: 1 gallon "Cu-Nap 8%" copper naphthenate concentrate, 6 gallons mineral spirits, 2 gallons raw linseed oil.
Hi Bob, You mention linseed oil as part of the preservative, I have been under the impression that linseed oil causes mold growth, have you found that to be true ? Thank you
Yes, the copper naphthenate is a anti-fungal agent. That's why it inhibits rot and common termites. Fungi need to turn the wood into termite food before termites can consume it. Of course, the Formosan termites are a different story
Hi Bob, It seems that the only thing I can find the is straight Copper Naphthenate is Tenino Copper Naphthenate 17% (2% as Metal). Being that it is 17%, what should I thin it down with, to get it to 8.5% with? Or should I just double up on the other ingredients? Thanks!
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks for the reply. Is that what you are doing with the 6 gallons of mineral spirits you are already using, or would that be in addition to?
Good day Bob, thank you for the time and effort you donate to making videos for us. I went to the company's website that makes the Cu-Nap sold by Mannlake that you shown in the video. There is a link for the MSDS of the product provided by the company and written in the MSDS it clearly states that "wood treated with this product shall not be used for the construction of beehives" The EPA controls pesticide use, considers the MSDS to be the label and the label is the law. What are your thoughts on this Bob?
The Msds you looked at could be for another product, maybe a higher concentration, or with other additives to it. I looked at the msds for the cu-nap and didn't see any restrictions on beehive use, so I am not sure what you saw. Can you post the link to the specific msds you were looking at in case I was looking at the wrong one? They may make a special formula just for Mann Lake that is approved for beehives. You would need to ask the company directly whether that Msds applies to the exact product sold by Mann Lake.
@@ke6gwf hello Ben, this link is a copy of the label that is attached to the container of Cu-Nap sold by Mannlake. The link is available at CoperCare.com the manufacturer of the product. On the left hand side of the label just below Environmental Hazards it is stated. coppercare.com/DesktopModules/LiveContent/API/Download/DownloadFile?PortalId=0&ModuleId=458&eid=3 Also stated in the MSDS, here is a link. coppercare.com/DesktopModules/LiveContent/API/Download/DownloadFile?PortalId=0&ModuleId=459&eid=4 All Cu-Nap is made from Copper Naphthenate which is copper salts, poisonous to humans. I searched Copper Naphthenate, the pesticide is not allowed to be used around the production of food products, in this case honey. There's no special formula made for Mannlake, Cu-Nap is a pesticide poisonous to humans. Also note fhe brand in question contains 30% diesel fuel. Sure might make your boxes last longer but at what expense?
I believe any petroleum base product would be considered toxic to bees, that is why we let it season so long. When this is done I've never seen or heard of any issue. My guess is the glue and paint we use would be considered toxic too.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks for the reply Bob, the paint and glue doesn't contain copper, paint is on the outside, copper however is on the interior. With more reading the restriction is not to protect the bees, it's to prevent contamination of the food produced that humans will eat. Happy New years.
If 2% I would use it full strength and not add mineral spirits. Adding linseed oil adds oil to the wood and can be helpful but it's not absolutely necessary. We choose to do it.
We use a weaker solution on supers because they are only on the colonies a few months a year and never in the winter when moisture can really soak in. We don't need to soak lids or bottoms because the HDO lumber we use doesn't need it. On the 4 way bee pallets we have the 2x4 and 1x6 lumber dipped in diesel and used motor oil but not the HDO top surface.
Ha Bob You have a nice set up, the nuc boxes u made are beautiful u could make money selling them They are better then any thing you can buy else where. I have a question for u and U are smart u have 2500 to 3000 hives and u use queen excluders. I was thinking yesterday I have problems geting my bees to go threw them I cause them to want to swarm when I use them.. what do u do to encourage your bees to go through the excluders and not fill up the brood chamber Thanks for your wisdom have a great day and Happy new year
Hi Frances. We only use excluders on our single story colonies and yes it can increase swarming. For us it's all about timing. We don't use excluders on our double deeps.
@@bobbinnie9872 wow thanks I tryed last year and it was a desister not spelled right I had never done it before I always just let the queen go where ever she wanted I believe it is called unrestricted brood area, i inspect every 10 days and would move the brood down is this what u do thanks
@@framcesmoore I have grown to running two boxes of brood, I feel for me it gives me a bigger batch of frames for making splits with. Above the two boxes I use an excluder. At first, they do NOT like to go up much at all. I have found that adding a frame or two that are built and empty, or lightly loaded with nectar/ honey will encourage the bees to move up. Also, I will feed them at first with a 1/2:1 sugar water mix; they can use the water, and they will take this, every time, and in spring start to use it to build comb. Once they move up there for building comb well, I quit feeding. To get them to go up and build new comb is difficult at first, it helps to give them a little food to promote making more comb. Once the become accustomed to going up, they do so regularly.
We're dipping boxes next week that we intend on using in May. They will weather outside for several months. Many people would use them sooner but we wait to be extra careful. Never had a problem.
I would consider any petroleum based product toxic to bees. That is why we let the equipment season so long before using. Although there will of course be residue left it seems to be low enough to cause no issues. At least that has been my experience.
I’m concerned that our state inspector would object. I’ll have to look into the regulations. Do other states require registration, and perform periodic inspections? I’m in Illinois.
@@1768ify Hi Mike. You and the inspector may find this study interesting. Effect of Wood Preservative Treatment of Beehives on Honey Bees and Hive Products www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pd...
Bob, Two questions: 1. Why wouldn't you use an oil based topcoat versus the water based "high gloss acrylic latex enamel"? I thought oil was tougher than any water based available. You went to the trouble to use an oil based primer so why not go all the way with oil based paint. Additionally , oil based was actually cheaper by 5-10% at Home Depot however that savings is likely offset due to the added cost of Mineral Spirits for clean up. 2. It does not appear that you are painting the top and bottom edges of the boxes. Why not? The answer may be to avoid the boxes sticking together since latex binds boxes together however this is avoided if oil based paint is used since it fully cures. It just seems that painting the edges (although not suitable for your speed painting approach of lots of boxes) would be best for maximum protection since water can stand on any exposed box ledge and sit between boxes due to box misalignment or nonuniformities (no harm to bees to paint the edges as the don't contact the edges).
Oddly enough we have had very good service out of the "high gloss" latex enamel. Satin, semi gloss or flat doesn't work as well and of course the latex is much easier to use. I have used a lot of oil base for cover coats in the past but am pleased with the latex as long as we use the right product. Your are right that painting the edges would add more protection but my experience with dipping the boxes in copper and linseed oil has proved to be good in that area.
Bob, Thank you so much for the quick reply. I will use latex high gloss enamel. But I will prime and paint edges since I am not dipping my boxes. Your channel has been extremely helpful and I appreciate your very practical and balanced approach. I am finding that balance and practicality are quickly disappearing quickly our society so yours is appreciated even more so.
We use oil base primer because it adheres better but use latex enamel for the cover coat. We've found that as long as we have a good primer the acrylic enamel lasts as long as we need it and is much easier to use. "Enamel" is the key here.
Before using HDO we did paint our lids and had decent luck with the same combination that we put on our boxes which is a good quality oil base primer and Acrylic Latex Enamel (high gloss) for the cover coats.
How do you go about stacking them as you paint them ? Half are marine plyw other half is HDO board .. Just trying to figure out plan how im going to lay them out . its in the teens so i need to keep the pile in the shop
@@bobbinnie9872 , to your understanding ? Well to my understanding it can last 65 years and it said wash hands before Eating , I looked up the chemical copper naphthenate , So remind me to wash my hands before I NEVER buy any honey from you ever . But the good news is your wood in the bee boxes will last 65 years , I just wonder if the people will live that long to enjoy the honey ?
Cool, all the more honey for everyone else. All research seems to show it has no effect on honey or bees if used properly and gear is weathered properly. All our honey in NZ is tested for any tiny traces of contamination by chemicals and no results show positive outcomes for copper nap. YOU need to get some manners and stop being so NEGATIVE. You will find you have a happier life
@@Stoneynz, All research (SEEMS) to show it has no effect on honey or Bees ? Well it seems that anything with a warning ⚠️ on the label should be avoided especially when there is other natural products that work ! So you do want to and I'll do the same !
![ILLSLICK X YOUNGOHM - We're The same [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yUJNkobYR0E/mqdefault.jpg)
I would enjoy a video of your dipping process. What equipment and materials needed for that whole process. Great video as always!
I requested a video on this a few months back, awesome to see it. I picked up some Sherwin-Williams oil base primer and latex acrylic enamel paint on their Black Friday sale. Will start painting soon, but not dipping. Thanks Mr. Bob, you’re a wealth of knowledge. Happy New Year!
25 years is a long time for wood to last in that area of the US. If you are going to do something do it right. Great info you have shared. Wax dipping might be great but for a smaller bee operation your linseed oil method can be done with little investment. Thanks Bob. I've used boiled linseed oil mixed with some beeswax and orange oil for my honey supers. I let them breath or age for about three months and had no problem with them. They only stay on for a few months and then they are back in storage so after one year of use they still look new. If I get 10 years of use out of them will be enough because I doubt if I'll worry about them when I'm 80.
You have the whole process covered. Lots of experience is showing. Thanks.
Hello sir,
Can u make a video on how you dip your boxes?
Very efficient process you have going there Bob! For my little backyard operation I just use some good old enamel paint double coated no diluting.
Hi Bob - I hope you had a Merry Christmas and hope you have a Great New Year !
Thanks, you too!
Bob, thanks for your videos and Happy New Year.
Bob, I want to thank you for being so very thorough in your description and showing us wht you do, and explaining WHY. I liked the fact that you mix the 'Frog's Blood' (What we call the green copper napthenate!!!) and Linseed oil. Wen I built my fence at my house, this was the same mix I used!!! I was very happy to see the similar mindset. For my hive box primer, I am instead using a water based clear exterior polyurethane varnish. I had concerns of the frog's blood being bad for the bees, and the two good features of the water-based urethane is it dries rock hard, and bugs, (moth larvae especially) do not chew into it like they do raw wood or waxed wood. And, there is no residual oils or scent, and I have fond the bees do not mind it at all.
The good stuff isn't cheap, just like your process....... Thank you for such great guidance and tips for cost savings!!! Always appreciated; Paul Romanowski.
Thanks, Bob! I love your videos. Beautiful shop!! It must be a pleasure to work there. It’s nice that you give kudos to your crew. Best wishes for the new year!
Thank you very much!
Quick tip…If you store your extra dip in five gallon buckets I would recommend that you double the buckets. My brand new blue Lowe’s bucket cracked last night, and now I have a mess in the shop. The boxes look great though.
I was afraid of this recipe slowly effecting any plastics, so I plan on storing any leftovers in the metal 1 gallon cans the Mineral Spirits came in and just relabel the cans..
I do use paraffin and I do paint my boxes right away - straight from the paraffin while its hot. I use water soluble paint and it sticks fine...
I use that Zinsser cover stain and that stuff is great, but the fumes are no joke. It's so good though I don't mind having to wear a respirator when working with it.
Thanks, Bob. Happy New Year from Romania!🎄
Thank you sir and the same to you.
Thank you,
Greatly appreciated
Excelent works. Explain what is wisdom..
Oil based primer with a latex enamel topcoat will hold out longer than anything else. The oil primer will penetrate the wood and grip better. Especially over wood that has been dipped than weathered in Bob's preservative mix. The latex enamel will resist the elements and won't dry out and flake as quickly as an oil topcoat. That's also why Sherwin Williams will warranty their latex products far longer than their oil based top coats.
I know your staff works hard, but it appears to me that your accountant is your best hire. Your bugs are living in a better house than I am.
Could you do a video of the dipping process
I really enjoy your videos. I'm a beekeeper in Ohio and just bought a "get-away" home in Blairsville, GA. Would love to take a road trip on the motorcycle next summer to visit your business.
We're 1-1/2 hour from Blairsville.
I use Hi-bor treated lumber here in HI for my woodenware. Given the hundreds of cutouts I have done where the hive is surrounded by Hi-bor treated lumber and plywood, I would figure it isn't harming the bees.
Thanks Bob!
Hi Bob- could find this in the comments: How long do you dip the wood in the material? Just enough to coat - or do you let it soak for a period of time?
Hi Tommy. Just enough to coat.
Honeybee at 7:47 is already looking to move in.
Thanks Bob...How do you taper the hand holes?
As shown in the video we just lay the board down on the dado blade which is set at about 5/8 inch deep. Not as nice as factory cuts but still work OK.
Bob, Thanks for your videos! Those are some great looking boxes, I’ve always favored white color paint for bee boxes. I do have a couple of questions for you. Do you paint the top and bottom edges of the boxes? Do you build your 10 frame boxes, if so do you have a video on that? I see your handles and conners have different cuts than your Nuc boxes.
Thanks for all of your help! I’m definitely looking forward to seeing and hearing you at the Bee Conference in TN.
Hi Don. I have a friend that states it's a borderline sin not paint beehives white. Of course he was smiling when he said that. These days we purchase most of our ten frame boxes but when we did make them we made them the way as our nuc boxes. We don't paint the top and bottom edges if they have been treated with wood preservative.
My how the economy has changed! That primer is now $170 for 5 gallons (Dec. 4, 2023).
Those look like Mann Lake boxes. If so, do you encounter fitment issues with them? Their frames are great but I’ve found their hive bodies and supers to be hit and miss when it comes to proper fitting and alignment; mostly miss.
We did have a recent incident with Mann Lake where about ten percent of the ends wouldn't fit right. In the past we had good luck with them.
If you get a chance, interested in seeing or learning more about the dipping process.
Perhaps I should have waited and added that. It's fairly simple. We dip them in a square tub and stack them on pallets soak and wet.
That’s ok Bob, gives us another video to look forward to. 😃
Hey, Bob. I’d like to see your process too. Does time the boxes are submerged or the temperature of the mixture play a part of your process? How big is your tub? Anyway, thanks for your videos. I really enjoy watching them!
@@twapiaries1938 We leave equipment soak for a few seconds in a tub which is about 20% bigger than a deep box and temperature doesn't seem to make any difference.
Bob do you paint the edges or is the cu napthelate enough to prevent rot on the edges and corners?
Do you treat your honey supers with Copper Nap?
Yes, but I tend to use a little weaker solution.
How do you keep the boxes from sticking together when painting like this?
They are somewhat stuck and have to be pried apart.
Do you have to paint it? What is the life if left with just oil and copper?
Hi Kevin. I have a few boxes that are 20 years old that got this treatment, but with no paint. They look like weathered siding on an older house but are not rotting and are still there.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks Bob. You give so much to the bee community. It is appreciated.
Hi Bob, I'm making 250 colonies and a couple hundred nucs. I'm making the lids and the bottoms in a really cheap kind of plywood. In my country, we call it OSB. My idea is to wax dip it in paraffin and after that painting with some good paint. In this video, you've said that it's not easy to do that. What kind of problem can I have?
Thank you for your time and for sharing all your knowledge.
I may have been referring to the idea that it's tricky to paint over wax dipped equipment. It has to be done at just the right time for the paint to stick. I suggest trying a few pieces to get it figured out before setting up to do a lot at one time.
That Tenino brand you have in the video ‘ for smaller users ‘ is available in Europe .
It has 2 percentages on it though 17% and 2% as metal . When you refer to the 8% cunap in your video is it the overall % or the % as metal ?
Yes, 8% copper.
Why raw Lin oil over the boiled? I thought the boiled dried faster?
Boiled drys faster but it can have additives that are toxic.
Do you sell these boxes in your retail store?
We do sell painted boxes but they are not dipped.
Hello frome Greece make very good job personal i deep boxes in parafin. Also like to have my boxes paint first paint my boxes to plastic collor that use to paint the inside of house and after deep my boxes in parafin .
I notice that in your video you use 8% copper Naphthenate concentrate but the bottle you show as an example is 16% copper naphthenate. Is it necessary to dilute? Many Thanks
The product we are using in the video is www.mannlakeltd.com/cunap-wood-treatment-8 We use 6 to 1 gallons of mineral spirits to dilute it.
@@bobbinnie9872 you might want to delete, this link goes to ECCO wood treatment at man lake, now
Hi Bob , I treat all my brood boxes because they are out year round in the elements, But find no need to treat honey boxes as they spend most of their life in the storage shed. Is this what you do or do you treat all boxes? Clint from NZ
We do treat honey supers but we use a thinner mix than what is used for brood boxes.
I'm a neophyte as to such things, can you tell me the paint sprayer used? Always enjoy the Binnie Video Productions!
We purchased it from Home Depot. I can't see the model number any more but I remember it was considered pro grade.
If it’s the same sprayer used for the primer it’s probably a Graco X5 or similar model. It’s on amazon for a little less than Home Depot....
hers the link amzn.to/3nkz8t4
Great video Bob!
@@dwightcarter6334 You may want to look at Menards if there's one in your area too. The X5, as of 3/29/21, is $266 with the 11% rebate.
@Bob Binnie what is the age of the oldest hive bodies that you have that you used this preserving method on?
25 years. They look old but have not rotted.
@Bob Binnie thank you sir!
Hey! Hope this finds you doing well! I have a few questions.
I’m prepping equipment for the Spring. Is it too late to dip the boxes, season and paint to use by this spring?
In mixing everything together, can I mix it in a tote? Should I dip the unassembled boxes in it and lay to dry or best to build and then dip? Does it matter? Is there an amount of time I should leave them in?
Thank you so much! See you at GBA conference!
Hi Angela. You still have time. We like to assemble and the dip so they will air out quicker. After dipping stack them them out in the sun and the rain.
Does it matter if the mineral spirits is low odor, odorless, or can paint thinner be used? The information that you post in your videos is greatly appreciated, and I have learned countless things from your many videos and years of experience. Thanks for all that you do!
Because we let our boxes air out and season in the weather for at least a couple of months I not sure it matters. I know of some beekeepers that use kerosene to keep costs down but of course I have to be careful not to openly say that's the way to go.
Hi Bob, I have one question. Since there is no copper naphthenate in my country, is it good or bad to dip boxes in a water solution of copper II sulphate pentahydrate (bluestone)?
I'm not familiar with that so I couldn't say.
@@bobbinnie9872 Ok, thank you.
Been eye balling some sheets of pvc sheeting might try that on lids . R value is alot higher . little cheaper too .
Good idea, thanks.
Where do you buy your boxes in bulk?
Most of our boxes come from Mann Lake.
How long do you dip in copper naphthenate?
Just a few seconds. We let drip for about 20 seconds and then stack wet.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thank You!
Bob, if one were to scuff the inside of the hive for propolis deposit around broodnest, would this treatment only go on outside edges, or it should be ok inside the hive box too?
If you don't mind the labor the ruffing up the entire inside surface would be helpful.
I meant to ask would copper naphthanate go only on outside or both in and out of the box after I scuff the insides
We dip the whole box so it's inside and outside.@@robotron7
What’s the shelf life on your mixture? Thoughts on EcoWood treatment? Thinking about dipping supers in the EcoWood and I know it only has a shelf life of 1 year after mixed.
I'm not sure what the shelf life for our mixture is. It seems to be fine if we carry it over from one year to the next. I don't have any personal experience with EcoWood.
Hey Bob,
Would you mind sharing what you are currently paying for HDO plywood right now and how many come in a skid/bundle?
Thanks for the info!
46 in a bundle at $58.00 each.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks for the info. I really appreciate your help and your approach to beekeeping!
Thanks !!
Thanks Bob, great video. After you dip them in the copper napthenate mixture and season dry them. How or are you painting the places where each box contacts the next box. Do you paint that seam or does dipping take care of that?
Happy new year
The dipping seems to be good enough so we don't paint the edges.
I am just starting off learning how to waxdipp as a wood preservative. I have also used "Shou Sugi Ban " a japaneese burn and brush method to close the fibers in the wood. As you mention, it is hard to paint. Therefor am I experimenting with plantcolouring before I waxdipp. I will continuesly seek for the best plant/muchroom to boild in colour into the wood. The I dry the wood in a room with an airdryer. Put the precis together and waxdipp. Since you've been "doing bees" for such a long time... have you ever come across something similar? Do you have any suggestions?
Lot's of love from Sweden!
I have not seen anything like that but please let us know how it works if you do it. Thanks.
@@bobbinnie9872 so far the plantcolour from Aronia is still bright in the wood. One has to be loving bees if still awake waxdipping at 04.02 am😉 Aronia was a good choise. Still lila after waxdipping.
I wish I could share fotos on TH-cam. Then you could see for yourself. I got 2 shades of lila from this batch. Some boxes where in the colour for 2 days , some for a week. Those who where in for 2 days got a bright shade. Those for a week a dark shade. Next year I try to grow tumeric to plancolour with. Aronia will turn greyish when it ages. Hope the bees will like thoose boxes. It will be interesting to follow if the plantcolour will be persist. You can go in on Kamon Reynolds fb page, there are some photos.
Thanks for posting Bob & best wishes for a happy and productive New Year. I would think you have had a good bit of experience with wax dipping. In your experience, is it possible or even recommended to add Copper Naphthenate to melted wax? I try to do everything I can to stave off the fire ants. They are terribly destructive to the boxes.
You could dip them first in the copper and after they've cured do a wax dip. Lot of work I suppose but maybe worth it. I didn't know fire ants eat wood. Glad we don't have them here in MN. When I lived in TX I got bit many times with them little bastards. Hate them things.
Thank you. I honestly don't know if adding that to wax would help or not or if it would even work OK. The CP seems to work OK alone.
@@bobbinnie9872 So far, I have been having very good results wax dipping using a 50/50 mix of paraffin/micro-crystalline wax.
Thanks, there's not much out there on using copper. I mixed 5/20/5 of copper/mineral spirits/linseed. It was in a 55 gallon drum and over the summer either evaporated or leaked out, not sure which. What do you use to store and dip in?
We use a square pan to dip and put the left over in 5 gallon buckets.
@@bobbinnie9872 and the left over can be reused? What-s happening with the rest of cunap-oil-mineral spirit mixture?
@@eugencristianradut7968 We store whatever is left over in buckets. It usually needs to be stirred before using it again because it settles and turns thick at the bottom. No problem storing it as long as the bucket is sealed.
@@bobbinnie9872 finally, i did the mixture and dipped some woood in it. The wood's texture changed a lot, and varies a lot, like in your video, the wood surface is a little oily, thanks to the lindseed oil, and the smell is not that strong, thanks to the white spirit odourless properties, and the diluted mixture. Hard to find CuNap 8% here, in Europe. I used boiled lindseed oil, and intend to paint after two weeks. Plenty of good whishes to the BIG BOSS !!
What is consumption for base. Coat and finish coat. How many gallons per x amount of boxes. Same for treatment. Thanks
I think we get around 20 to 25 boxes per gallon with the primer and paint. I honestly couldn't say with the dip treatment.
Bob, I know this is an older video but would buying flaxseed oil work as good as linseed oil? I found a supplier that sells it cheaper than buying the linseed version.
I believe flaxseed oil and linseed oil are the same thing.
@bobbinnie9872 thank you.
Hi Bob! Thanks for the great info! I have a couple questions if I may. The first is that, I believe you stated, you prefer raw linseed oil instead of boiled because the BLO has petroleum ingredients in it. However, your mixture has mineral spirits, which is petroleum based, so my question is why then does it matter if you use raw linseed oil instead of boiled?
Second, your mixture quantities are for I assume 1000’s of boxes, can you say how much product is needed per box? Trying to recalculate since I would only be doing a dozen or so boxes at a time.
Thanks!
Hi Andrew. Raw linseed oil is the purest form, but is sometimes impractical for wood workers due to the extended drying times. It can take several weeks for raw linseed oil to cure. Boiled linseed oil is more common as a wood finish because it dries much faster but contains some potentially hazardous drying compounds. I know mineral spirits isn't exactly food grade and that's one of the reasons we let the boxes season a while before we use them. I've never had any problems.
I'm guessing that dipping 12 deep boxes uses about one gallon of mixture.
@@bobbinnie9872 Ok, makes sense. Thanks!
Hi Bob! Before I painted my hives with enamel paint, I gave them 2 coats of linseed oil, but only on outside parts of hive.
Would it have been good to apply linseed oil on the inside too?
Happy new year!!!
The edges and the outside are more important than the inside. The inside should get coated by the bees eventually.
I thought that by dipping the hives in that copper napthenate and linseed oil mixture, it would get inside the hive as well
. What is the mixture ratio?
@@norbertalbu6616 Dipping does get treatment on the inside as well but I'm OK with that because of the time we let it season outside in the weather. I know many people are concerned with the idea of the bees being exposed to it, especially if they can't wait for seasoning. In this case treating the edges and outside is the next best step.
Our wood preservative recipe: 1 gallon "Cu-Nap 8%" copper naphthenate concentrate, 6 gallons mineral spirits, 2 gallons raw linseed oil.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks for your time. Great video. Wishing you a Happy New Year fully loaded with health and of course with honney🍯🍯🍯
Hi Bob, You mention linseed oil as part of the preservative, I have been under the impression that linseed oil causes mold growth, have you found that to be true ? Thank you
You are right but when combined with the copper it doesn't.
@@bobbinnie9872 Awesome thank you.
Yes, the copper naphthenate is a anti-fungal agent. That's why it inhibits rot and common termites. Fungi need to turn the wood into termite food before termites can consume it. Of course, the Formosan termites are a different story
Hi Bob, It seems that the only thing I can find the is straight Copper Naphthenate is Tenino Copper Naphthenate 17% (2% as Metal). Being that it is 17%, what should I thin it down with, to get it to 8.5% with? Or should I just double up on the other ingredients? Thanks!
We use mineral spirits for thinning.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks for the reply. Is that what you are doing with the 6 gallons of mineral spirits you are already using, or would that be in addition to?
@@FuzzyOne37 Six gallons is how much we use on the concentrated Cu-nap we get from Mann Lake.
Good day Bob, thank you for the time and effort you donate to making videos for us.
I went to the company's website that makes the Cu-Nap sold by Mannlake that you shown in the video. There is a link for the MSDS of the product provided by the company and written in the MSDS it clearly states that "wood treated with this product shall not be used for the construction of beehives" The EPA controls pesticide use, considers the MSDS to be the label and the label is the law. What are your thoughts on this Bob?
The Msds you looked at could be for another product, maybe a higher concentration, or with other additives to it.
I looked at the msds for the cu-nap and didn't see any restrictions on beehive use, so I am not sure what you saw.
Can you post the link to the specific msds you were looking at in case I was looking at the wrong one?
They may make a special formula just for Mann Lake that is approved for beehives.
You would need to ask the company directly whether that Msds applies to the exact product sold by Mann Lake.
@@ke6gwf hello Ben, this link is a copy of the label that is attached to the container of Cu-Nap sold by Mannlake. The link is available at CoperCare.com the manufacturer of the product. On the left hand side of the label just below Environmental Hazards it is stated.
coppercare.com/DesktopModules/LiveContent/API/Download/DownloadFile?PortalId=0&ModuleId=458&eid=3
Also stated in the MSDS, here is a link.
coppercare.com/DesktopModules/LiveContent/API/Download/DownloadFile?PortalId=0&ModuleId=459&eid=4
All Cu-Nap is made from Copper Naphthenate which is copper salts, poisonous to humans. I searched Copper Naphthenate, the pesticide is not allowed to be used around the production of food products, in this case honey.
There's no special formula made for Mannlake, Cu-Nap is a pesticide poisonous to humans. Also note fhe brand in question contains 30% diesel fuel. Sure might make your boxes last longer but at what expense?
I believe any petroleum base product would be considered toxic to bees, that is why we let it season so long. When this is done I've never seen or heard of any issue. My guess is the glue and paint we use would be considered toxic too.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks for the reply Bob, the paint and glue doesn't contain copper, paint is on the outside, copper however is on the interior. With more reading the restriction is not to protect the bees, it's to prevent contamination of the food produced that humans will eat.
Happy New years.
@Colin Nickerson bees making food for humans inside a box lined with poison, to each their own.
I see the Amazon product is only 2% metal instead of 8%. Would you just use that straight or mix with the mineral spirits/linseed oil ?
If 2% I would use it full strength and not add mineral spirits. Adding linseed oil adds oil to the wood and can be helpful but it's not absolutely necessary. We choose to do it.
One more question, do you use this treatment on honey supers, or any other wooden ware besides deeps?
We use a weaker solution on supers because they are only on the colonies a few months a year and never in the winter when moisture can really soak in.
We don't need to soak lids or bottoms because the HDO lumber we use doesn't need it. On the 4 way bee pallets we have the 2x4 and 1x6 lumber dipped in diesel and used motor oil but not the HDO top surface.
@Colin Nickerson More mineral spirits.
Ha Bob You have a nice set up, the nuc boxes u made are beautiful u could make money selling them They are better then any thing you can buy else where. I have a question for u and U are smart u have 2500 to 3000 hives and u use queen excluders. I was thinking yesterday I have problems geting my bees to go threw them I cause them to want to swarm when I use them.. what do u do to encourage your bees to go through the excluders and not fill up the brood chamber Thanks for your wisdom have a great day and Happy new year
Hi Frances. We only use excluders on our single story colonies and yes it can increase swarming. For us it's all about timing. We don't use excluders on our double deeps.
@@bobbinnie9872 wow thanks I tryed last year and it was a desister not spelled right I had never done it before I always just let the queen go where ever she wanted I believe it is called unrestricted brood area, i inspect every 10 days and would move the brood down is this what u do thanks
@@framcesmoore I have grown to running two boxes of brood, I feel for me it gives me a bigger batch of frames for making splits with. Above the two boxes I use an excluder. At first, they do NOT like to go up much at all. I have found that adding a frame or two that are built and empty, or lightly loaded with nectar/ honey will encourage the bees to move up. Also, I will feed them at first with a 1/2:1 sugar water mix; they can use the water, and they will take this, every time, and in spring start to use it to build comb. Once they move up there for building comb well, I quit feeding. To get them to go up and build new comb is difficult at first, it helps to give them a little food to promote making more comb. Once the become accustomed to going up, they do so regularly.
@@paulromanowski4703 Thank you have a blessed new year
How much time is needed between copper naphthanate and use? Is it too late for gear to be used this spring?
We're dipping boxes next week that we intend on using in May. They will weather outside for several months. Many people would use them sooner but we wait to be extra careful. Never had a problem.
@@bobbinnie9872 I am about an 1.5 hours from your shop. Would you be interested in selling 10 or 20 Gallons for your mix?
@@robbywhite8041 There may be times when I would but not this time because I don't want to run short.
Cu-Nap is not to be legally used on Bee Hives? Off label use?
I would consider any petroleum based product toxic to bees. That is why we let the equipment season so long before using. Although there will of course be residue left it seems to be low enough to cause no issues. At least that has been my experience.
The naphthenate at Amazon is 17% instead of 8%. Would you cut it to a half gallon in your formula?
If you look closely that product is only 2% metal rather than 8%.
I see that now. In that case you probably don’t need any mineral spirits. Given the labeling, I think I will avoid it for now.
I’m concerned that our state inspector would object. I’ll have to look into the regulations. Do other states require registration, and perform periodic inspections? I’m in Illinois.
@@1768ify Hi Mike. You and the inspector may find this study interesting. Effect of Wood Preservative Treatment of Beehives on Honey Bees and Hive
Products www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pd...
Bob, Two questions:
1. Why wouldn't you use an oil based topcoat versus the water based "high gloss acrylic latex enamel"? I thought oil was tougher than any water based available. You went to the trouble to use an oil based primer so why not go all the way with oil based paint. Additionally , oil based was actually cheaper by 5-10% at Home Depot however that savings is likely offset due to the added cost of Mineral Spirits for clean up.
2. It does not appear that you are painting the top and bottom edges of the boxes. Why not? The answer may be to avoid the boxes sticking together since latex binds boxes together however this is avoided if oil based paint is used since it fully cures. It just seems that painting the edges (although not suitable for your speed painting approach of lots of boxes) would be best for maximum protection since water can stand on any exposed box ledge and sit between boxes due to box misalignment or nonuniformities (no harm to bees to paint the edges as the don't contact the edges).
Oddly enough we have had very good service out of the "high gloss" latex enamel. Satin, semi gloss or flat doesn't work as well and of course the latex is much easier to use. I have used a lot of oil base for cover coats in the past but am pleased with the latex as long as we use the right product. Your are right that painting the edges would add more protection but my experience with dipping the boxes in copper and linseed oil has proved to be good in that area.
Bob, Thank you so much for the quick reply. I will use latex high gloss enamel. But I will prime and paint edges since I am not dipping my boxes. Your channel has been extremely helpful and I appreciate your very practical and balanced approach. I am finding that balance and practicality are quickly disappearing quickly our society so yours is appreciated even more so.
What spray gun equipment is he using?
It is a Graco brand airless sprayer. I don't remember the model but it was around $369.00 a few years ago.
Why don't you guys use oil base paint instead of Latex?
I thought oil based paint is better, is it due to cost?
We use oil base primer because it adheres better but use latex enamel for the cover coat. We've found that as long as we have a good primer the acrylic enamel lasts as long as we need it and is much easier to use. "Enamel" is the key here.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks!
For how many month do you season boxes
Two or three if we can.
Do you sell nuc boxes?
Not as this time. We need all that we just built for next year. I wish I had more time to make more to sell.
Whats the trick to painting lids ? i have 300 some need paint
Before using HDO we did paint our lids and had decent luck with the same combination that we put on our boxes which is a good quality oil base primer and Acrylic Latex Enamel (high gloss) for the cover coats.
How do you go about stacking them as you paint them ? Half are marine plyw other half is HDO board .. Just trying to figure out plan how im going to lay them out . its in the teens so i need to keep the pile in the shop
When we painted the top surface on lids we had to lay them out on rails, like 2x4s. It took a lot of room.
Ok thanks basically no way around it going to take alot room maybe ill hold off till it warms up then
Do you sell boxes ?
We're not selling any at this time as I am going to use all that we made.
I’m surprised your not on the wax dip train. The trick is to paint when hot
Guessing efficiency rules the game here. Spraying individual hot boxes would take more man-hours and incur more waste than painting stacks.
We stopped wax dipping because our Insurance wouldn't cover people of building near a vat of propane heated resin..........
👍👍👍👍👍
Copper naphthenate in my honey taste great 👍 ,
More please !
If boxes are left to weather before using the exposure is very minimal to my understanding.
@@bobbinnie9872 , to your understanding ?
Well to my understanding it can last 65 years and it said wash hands before
Eating ,
I looked up the chemical copper naphthenate ,
So remind me to wash my hands before I NEVER buy any honey from you ever .
But the good news is your wood in the bee boxes will last 65 years ,
I just wonder if the people will live that long to enjoy the honey ?
Cool, all the more honey for everyone else. All research seems to show it has no effect on honey or bees if used properly and gear is weathered properly. All our honey in NZ is tested for any tiny traces of contamination by chemicals and no results show positive outcomes for copper nap. YOU need to get some manners and stop being so NEGATIVE. You will find you have a happier life
@@Stoneynz,
All research (SEEMS) to show it has no effect on honey or Bees ?
Well it seems that anything with a warning ⚠️ on the label should be avoided especially when there is other natural products that work !
So you do want to and I'll do the same !
@@jimthomas1989sometimes if you have nothing pleasant to say you should reconsider.
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