Steinway and Sons to be Sold to The Chinese Government?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- It would now seem likely that the famed piano maker will be sold to the Chinese Government, but why, and how could this have happened? Although both Hamburg, and New York Steinways will likely be sold to the Chinese Government this video discusses mostly the problems associated with the New York Steinways. The Hamburg Steinways continued to use Renner actions during the Teflon years, and were overall more dependable. slippedisc.com/...
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With brand's such as Yamaha, Mason and Hamlin and Baldwin that are less costly, Steinway's position isn't that great.
Saw dust in the key bed.... really. that just sounds insane for such an expensive instrument. Is an industrial vacuum cleaner used properly too much to ask for? I mean.... really.
This reminds me of Gibson guitars. They try to do all these fancy upgrades, but everyone just wants a regular les Paul. Their guitar prices are at a premium just like Steinway.
If I ever get another piano in the future. I’d probably get a mason and Hamlin or a bosendorfer 😍😍🎹🎹
Mason and Hamlin make a nice BB if you select it well.
We like vintage Bosendorfer pianos (200), and we also like the 280VC as well.
Gibson didn't only ruin their guitars, they ruined Baldwin pianos too.
Ryan O'Donnell
We couldn't agree with you more.
It's such a shame too. There was a rather plain looking old Baldwin baby grand in one of the classrooms where I went to college. The tone quality was exquisite! Sure, it needed some TLC in terms of tuning and maybe a little work on the action, but otherwise, it was a great little piano! I don't think anyone there fully appreciated it.
Sorry for posting on here late as you guys may not see it, I play guitar a fair amount and am looking to get a newer, better guitar. I love the Les Paul series but everything I’ve heard about poor quality and guitars going out of tune scares me. Would you guys that play more rate Paul Reed Smith highly ? I looked at I believe a model 594 and the fit and finish was excellent
The Teflon bushings were somewhat fragile according to my understanding. A teacher of mine once remarked that he encountered a piano at his conservatory that played well new but experienced clicking issues only a few months into its break-in period.
Many of the issues criticised in the video (Teflon bushings for example) applied only to NY Steinways, not Hamburgs. The dead area and fast decay (poor sustain) mentioned applies often to both the NY and Hamburg Steinways and to most other makes, and there's always been a problem at the 'break point' in that area (the point at which the strut in the frame requires a gap in the stringing; between C and C# on the model D). I have a NY model D in my home and have played many in concert, mainly Hamburg Steinways (Europe and S Africa) but not by choice because in spite of the inconsistencies in the American pianos I have always felt that the best piano is the best NY model D. I also feel that Steinway lost their quality of tone about twenty or thirty years ago when a more powerful sound was the aim. The Hamburg model D has a very much more pronounced and offensive metallic timbre at forte and above - cheap-sounding to my taste. However, pianists stick with Steinway because they've monopolised the stages for a long time: this has done pianists and the company no good, because competition has effectively been reduced by this monopoly coupled to Steinway's artist policy which results in the company coming down hard and at times in a nasty way on Steinway artists who, dissatisfied with the available Steinway, have dared to play another make instead. Even pianists such as Artur Rubinstein and Glenn Gould got on the wrong side of this policy at times. Most pianists put up with whatever is on the stage - invariably Steinway - because of the enormous costs and hassles to get a different piano into the hall, whether preferred Steinway from the piano bank or some other make. One of the most fabulous NY Steinways was Horowitzes piano from the '60s. It was an exceptional singing instrument with lots of colours possible to a sensitive pianist. When Horowitz changed pianos about the mid '80s the best he could find was not a patch on the older one.
Perhaps if Steinway were owned by an American company with an interest in the arts rather than a football team, and standards at the NY factory were improved, we could again regard Steinways with the same awe as artists did prior to the second world war when all makers suffered the loss of their soundboard wood stockpiles and curing became much more artificial.
I think I was reasonably clear in stating that I liked the Renner action, but that action is not generally available here in the states. The Hamburg Steinway was not what this video was about with the exception of my concerns what will happen under the Chinese government guidance.
This is a very eye-opening and educational video. I enjoyed it immensely. It's so nice to come across another piano lover ( and piano lovers in the comments).
When I was in college, we transitioned to being an All-Steinway school (no Bostons or Essex, just Steinway). Most of them were complete junk if they could even keep a tune. We got the first two silver edition pianos in the world, a B and a D. The D was/is magnificent - never a problem. The B, however, had to be voiced and regulated about 4 or 5 times before anyone wanted to touch it, and it was a primary-use instrument (whereas the D stayed locked up in a corner for only special performances). Add to that that our dealer was/is a pompous ass. We made several "field trips" to the dealer for piano studio outings where they'd give a presentation about the history of the piano (Steinway) and the construction of it as well as plug their attached music store... and there were constant jabs at the local (non-Steinway) competition. There were also other issues with them and the pianos. Needless to say and after growing up with a Steinway, I am now a loyal customer of the competition where they roll out the red carpet every time that I come in compared to being treated like an idiot at Steinway.
Which college did you go to may I ask? An all-Steinway music school sounds too good to be true if it was in my country.
I had no idea about this; thanks for the info. No company can 'rest on their laurels' for long. There are other makes I like better anyway. When I was in college, we played Steinway, but it felt more like a workout than a pleasure to play.
I'm amazed that they thought Teflon was suitable for this application. It was well known from the earliest uses of Teflon that it does not have high long-term dimensional stability and, critically, undergoes plastic creep under continuous light pressure. So, even if you make a very accurate job of fitting a Teflon bushing to a shaft it is very likely that the bushing will become oval over time under the weight of the shaft alone leaving vertical slop in the assembly. Unless the application is tolerant of this you are going to have issues over time.
Of course this is not perhaps the most expensive error from over-reliance on a new technology. Rolls Royce Aero Engines division, employing some 80,000 people, went bust in 1971 largely because of the problems they encountered with using carbon fibre in the fan construction of the RB211 engine. The knock-ons from this also put a huge dent in the Lockheed Corporation.
Really fascinating, thank you. Some companies think they are above normal market forces. Wrong!
Brand prestige works if the quality and strict attention to details are strictly enforced. When Steinway decided on brand prestige over quality and attention to details to sell pianos Steinway went wobbly.
Why didn't you buy from one of the other factories which you visited? Or just a refurbished Grotrian or manybe Bosendorfer or one other brand?
Charles Walter makes a wonderful 6'4" piano with a Renner action that would have been wonderful as a practice piano, but I was looking for a concert grand for my main piano, and so I found a great used (1995) N.Y.D. I also like the Mason and Hamlin BB, but that was only 7 ft, and again I was looking for a concert grand. Mason and Hamlin also makes a CC 9ft. piano, but I preferred the Steinway over the CC.
i just read this in passing. all i can say is OMG. I remember what happened to Baldwin. Will believe for good things and better days ahead for this Marquis brand. I think its something worth preserving !
After watching this video I'm more and more convinced that it's the German Steinways that kept the the whole company in business. No Teflon experiments, a much more consistent output quality and more modern manufacturing methods especially everything related to the soundboard. There is a reason that the majority of concert grands to be seen around the world are Hamburg Steinways.
Still Steinway is really lacking innovation today. All grand pianos below the model A are outdated in terms of soundboard size and tonal quality.
The speaker is well informed, well spoken, and intelligent. A rare combination. My impression was that the piano industry had contracted because Americans were no longer playing piano, but listening to music. As for Steinway tours, 20 years ago when I was taking a course at Juilliard on piano appreciation, the members of the class were taken on a tour of the Steinway factory in Astoria with no problem. Perhaps it was because our teacher was a great champion of the piano and well connected. Or maybe they changed their visiting policy. This was an excellent presentation.
sawdust left in the piano?!, New York workforce, lol
never thought i'd enjoy this type of info so much! if you have any similar stories about other major manufacturer such as bosendorf, yamaha, fazioli... be sure to share !
I have wanted to say something about what has been going on at Steinway for a long time, but never would because I didn't want to hurt them in any way, because I love their pianos. In the end it just seemed like it had to be told even though it hurt to tell the story.
Keep us informed on this issue! Thanks.
As a professional recording ...writer and arranger as well as a pianist ...personally I have NEVER played a Steinway that was worth its weight...It is in the end a matter of opinion and subjection....again personally i have ALWAYS been a fan of Boesendorfer...as well as the house of Mason &Hamlin...Steinway has done this to themselves....they call it....GREED.
Steinway made some wonderful pianos, but I feel their time has passed to be among the greats being made today.
From a business strategy point of view, a Chinese company would not be interested in Steinway, because it is simply too big. An up-and-coming Chinese piano builder would be interested in the art and secrets of piano building, which can be had from any high-end piano builder. It doesn't have to be Steinway. Take a look at the situation from Pearl River's point of view in its acquisition of Schimmel. For its purpose, Schimmel is just as good as Steinway, because they would have a lot of learning/catching up to do from any high-end company. So, why bother paying through the nose for a well-known name like Steinway? It was interesting to see that Pearl River bought Schimmel after it was rehabilitated after filing for bankruptcy. I don't know the details of the deal, but I am guessing Pearl River got a very good deal.
I really enjoy your programs. Is the Steinway company for sale and you really think they would ask a billion dollars for it?
There are a number of articles about the sale. slippedisc.com/2018/08/steinway-to-be-sold-to-chinese-state-company/
I just googled the sale. Dang
It is a sad day for sure!
Well, yes. But, it can work out well if the company is financed and not compromised (or pseudo-Steinway knock-offs start appearing which would be horrible).
Surprised to have only just come across this video.
A couple of years ago, whilst at a dealership (not a Steinway one),the dealer was saying that the only real assets Steinway had was it's real estate.
The stock had little value,and the people sniffing around were just interested in the land and property.
I've been lucky insofar as I bought an ex teachers model a,a particularly good one(Hamburg).
I would never have bought a new York Steinway anyway.
Whenever I have had to use one,I've always been underwhelmed.
I believe that Steinway has recently sold off a large portion of the land that houses their factory.
Thanks for this video -- very well done and very informative!
Steinway have lost the plot. They are far to controlling. Give me a good German piano such as as Bechstein or Bluthner any day or a restored pre war German Steinway .
I love my 1995 N.Y. D.
I love it too.
You have educated me and I appreciate it. I am deeply saddened that the Grand old lady has gone. I desire a Bluthner now. For an instrument company to expect a musician to purchase a piano unauditioned, let alone sight unseen is INSANE. They will unfortunately get what they deserve. Tell it like it is. WTG, James. Frazzle dude must have as much money as Bill Gates..
Frazzle dude is just a cool "dude" who loves music and pianos in general. He has three amazing pianos for sure and his Fazioli 308 is to die for. It very well could be the best piano I have ever played. He also was kind enough to let me come into his home and review his pianos and point out the faults with his $250,000.00 Steinway. I think to me it shows his honesty and integrity, I proudly call him my friend.
I've played Steinways from the earliest days to present, I have never had the clicking.
It was there, but most of the Teflon actions have been replaced.
Don't you think that Steinway is doing exactly what Gibson (or Fender) did decades ago ? Overpriced instruments, not enough quality control, and too much marketing ? Fender just missed to disappear, Gibson is about to, so is the Steinway company ? Very expensive, boomy, and not so subtile instruments, compared to Bechsteins (only to quote a single high-end brand...) or Yamahas (or...). As the music instruments market is drasticly shrinking (with a giant decent quality offer), any customer has, more than ever, reasons to ask himself: "do I really have what I pay for?"
Excellent commentary James ... wish you well regards Mike
I was considering a top Steinway concert grand. I am now convinced not to buy one or any piano from any company that operates like what you mentioned. I think I will buy a Bechstein. Any company that would sell out to China can go to hell.
If you buy a Bechstein and you live in the states you also we need to purchase that piano off your dealer that owns your zip code. They need to change that policy, and all companies need to state you can buy any of their pianos from any dealer and until that happens you can always consider buying a used piano as we have.
A lot of German companies have partnerships with China. I think Bechstein does. Fuerich is either Viennese or German and they do. Schimmel does.The piano industry is very aligned with Chinese companies now. www.irishtimes.com/business/manufacturing/facing-the-music-how-china-is-buying-germany-s-piano-industry-1.2621028
Yes they due, but all have suffered in quality. If you move production to save money then you will cut cost in other ares as well. Fuerich is now made in China, but people are saying they play terrible. The premium brand of Bechstein is still made in Germany, and Schimmel pianos have not impressed me for some time.
Yes. Bechstein Concert and Academy are made in Germany. I think the Hoffmanns are made in Eastern Europe. But maybe some of the Zimmermann's are made in China now? There are some Feurichs built in Vienna. I guess for those wanting real European brands on a budget, these new Chinese-German pianos are a more affordable way to get them, but with compromised quality.
Get bosendorfer
Teflon was used to speed up production and cost cut. Wood expands and shrinks teflon doesn't.
I think everyone agrees that the Steinway Teflon era was a complete failure.
rather odd if not sad story to hear about such a great piano maker!
i'm guessing it's due to some kind of a management change (perhaps even a major change in ownership?) that's making such truly bad marketing mistakes because you're right: that's not how a business, especially a well-reputed business works!
speaking of a Chinese take over of the Steinway ... well, let's see if Trump would agree with that? ;-)
almost OT; speaking of a light (soft) key action in pianos, i may have told you this in another one of your fine videos already: ever touched a British-made piano brand by the name of Challen by any chance?
i used to have an old used upright model of theirs in the 1970s (the piano itself was probably a 1950s or earlier model but not sure about that really) that did suffer from certain issues but the key-action on it was probably the lightest/softest i have experienced on a piano to this very day ... i also had the chance to play one of their grand models in a college in England for a short while and that one's key-action was also just as light/soft to the touch ...
if you ever happen to find one (i guess the company's no longer in business but not sure) you'd probably like it ...
some links to do with the Challen pianos:
www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=H2zrXNf2D4_F-gS_zoLgBQ&q=Challen+piano&oq=Challen+piano&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.6941.8989..22277...0.0..0.95.413.6......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i20i263j0i67j0i10i67.U1fmC1k8JdA
It's all true.
The enemy of all good brands is complacency and Steinway is no exception. Chinese ownership, or for that matter, any deep-pocketed investor will enable the brand to survive while it reshuffles the management and experiments with change. One hopes the management bad apples will be escorted by security to the back door where they will be let go. Good riddance. It was their fault Steinway fell into disrepute. As for those who say Chinese ownership will be the end of the brand, such critics are the problem: their unquestioning worship of the brand enabled the Steinway management to become arrogant and unyielding to customer preferences because "We're Steinway, so deal with it." This happened to Detroit automakers in the 1970s when Chevy took on Toyota and balked at the Japanese car company. I like Yamaha and Toyota. I will need to think about whether I would ever pay for a Steinway or a Chevrolet. Congratulations on your Steinway. You are an empowered buyer. The rest of us can't afford the time and hassle to deal with such challenges.
Well, my boss has not told me this plan though. . Had you also explain on " the harmonics" and the mechanical system? Is the company Pearl River who is building ESSEX series? Boston is by KAWAI which introduced the teflon plastic technology they use in KAWAI top priced pianos. Thank you for sharing your oppinion and experience.
PaulusSANtosoCI Widjaja Boston is by Steinway.
Wrong. Kawai actions use ABS (Millenium) or carbon-filled ABS (Millennium III) structural parts in their actions, not teflon bushings.
@@gambacel
Boston pianos are built by Kawai under contract to Steinway.
How do you haggle on Steinways? I'm not in the market anytime soon, but I'd like to know. It's frustrating that someone like you can't buy from another dealer out of your territory.
The best market right now is for used Steinways. If you can handle a 9ft piano the used market is even better. I was able to get a great deal on mine because I was able to purchase it right on the spot, and it needed to be sold right away as the house was sold already. I am having some ideas coming up soon about buying new and used Steinways, and what to expect, and where the deals are going to be in the next several years.
@@ThePianoforever where did you buy the piano? I contacted a guy a couple of months back that inherited a Steinway D and was selling it for like 40k or so, don't remember.
@@ThePianoforever p.s. I'd like to join your Facebook group and have sent a request to join
That is about what they are worth on the used market. The problem is finding a good one as most will have problems, but if you are lucky they will have problems that you can fix without getting really carried away. Watch the 6th octave for poor sustain. Steinways can be tricky to buy new or used.
@@ThePianoforever yeah an annoying thing about Steinway D's is that their bass often overpowers their treble. For a pianist, it might be good to learn how to compensate with your own playing. If/how can the bad sustain in the treble be fixed?
Steinway is way too expensive, I would love to see if Chinese company buy it and selling the pianos for half price and keeping the quality at the same time
What quality, for decades NY turned out unfinished and defective "instruments". How about the pianos from the 50's where the pH was not adjusted on the bushings and the action was frozen by verdigris 20-30 years later, or defective strings in the 80's and even more shocking hammers that struck only 2 out of three strings and the Steinway Tech in the Nation's Capital would say, "just play a couple years for the felt to settle in". Then when you ask for refund on deposit on a new B because it lacks any singing character in the upper mid range that you had experienced on a S or 1080 upright as a child, and you've deduced to go to purchase one in Europe from Hamburg, New York sends you a letter with a litany of warnings: you'll never get parts here, it won't hold up to the climate in the mid-Atlantic, technicians will not know how to regulate it, etc., etc. Then as you are leaving the US to make a selection of a B from SEVEN, New York says they will make ONE available for you in their New York showroom! Insulting Bombast!
There are many outstanding pianos available in all sizes at competitive prices made around the world. NY has been living off their 19th Century reputation for too long and turning out unfinished garbage. D's might be an exception but reputable professional artists and concert halls will not risk their reputation on defective pianos. Both he critics and patrons will know better.
But for your home, find another brand or restored pre-WWI model.
(Proud owner of a Hamburg B and C. Bechstein B)
I think in terms of workmanship, the Japanese are still doing a better job because of their cultural work ethics even though their reputation in terms of build and sounds may not be the top.
The top-level Japanese concert grand pianos actually have quite the reputation for having excellent quality, and even the more affordable models are often revered for being dependable and reliable.
@@ThePianoforever I totally agree. And they are always seeking improvements.
This is the saddest news I've ever heard. It could have been another brand of piano, or another company in general.
Why Steinway? All things come to an end some time. (Tears).
I think everyone will agree that a government should not own a musical company.
Very well said!!
So, it's been a year - is Steinway Chinese yet?
It seems that no one is willing to pay the price they are asking.
Update: In the end China (or a Chinese company) did not buy Steinway. Paulson & Co. (American investment management firm) bought Steinway. Yes, that is the hedge fund manager John Paulson's company.
John Paulson IS the one trying to sell Steinway to China, but so far China is not willing to buy it.
@@ThePianoforever Sorry, my mistake, you're right. Thank you for that correction.
I have always heard that Bosendorfer was best. Your thoughts? I'll continue to look over your videos in case it is there.
The nicest Bosi I have ever played, and just maybe the great piano ever made.
th-cam.com/video/1d-wURq6tyE/w-d-xo.html
agreed! my piano of choice
What is worst than greed?
Greedy and stupid.
Steinway executives are both, I hope the buyer will resurrect Steinway quality.
So did they buy Steinway
No one is willing to pay what the owner is asking for Steinway.
NO!!!
They may....MAY follow japans trent upward, but it chinese tools are anything to go by, they wont....they are just rubbish workmanship....the steel is ok but never finished anythig but rough and out of alighnment.....the pianos will NEVER be like the real thing either.
Dealer territory sucks!
I guess Mason and Hamlin will be the new Steinway if Steinway falls.
Top two pianos sold in the world today are Fazioli and Yamaha CFX.
Is Faziolo China owned? If so, my 278 ownership goal will siess!... I'll just get a foto and remodel a room in the house..
You are safe as long as Paolo Fazioli is alive.
I don't buy anything from China anymore--if I can help it.
Probably, Yamaha will buy it!
I wouldn't mind seeing Yamaha end up with Steinway! They have done wonderfully with Bosendorfer, so I think if they were to purchase Steinway the pianos would be wonderful.
Why would Yamaha buy a maker of inferior pianos?
The cross-stringing was not accepted by everybody; it creates a muddiness that sounds ugly.
It was simply a push for the louder sound needed in larger 20th cent. concert halls for concerto work. C. Bechstein has retain some of the original color or timbre that was present in their 1850-90's pianos raved by Liszt, Debussy, etc.
Maybe if Lang Lang were to buy the company instead it might be improved.
Chinese digital Steinway keyboards incoming.
Available on Ebay: DIY Steinway piano kit. Bids start at $0.99. Genuine U/S seller. Now improved + bigger keys! Contents may change from pictures.
Are you referring to Steinway production in New York or in Hamburg too?
Just New York.
ThePianoforever that’s good. I wish the best for the company and who knows what will happen, but I’m very skeptical of Chinese ownership. I can imagine it would be very profitable to cheaply mass produce many “Steinway” pianos for the large Chinese market...
My lawyerly instincts tell me that if a company refuses to sell to customers who reside outside its zip code, it may be in violation of civil rights laws.
I would think that it would violate competition laws in a lot of countries as well?
It may be an antitrust issue, but not civil rights.
Thank you, that was very interesting and informative! I truly enjoy your channel.
Thank you very much as I love the feedback as much as doing the videos.
that seems to be the nature of the piano & up scale companies in the USA...last time I went to a piano store I ended up buying a harpsichord from a local luthier. I am self taught & simply wanted the experience of playing on a quality instrument.
In music we have many choices!
If any foreign company takes over Steinway it's pretty irrelevant these days. Steinways were mass produced and hundreds of thousands were built in their best years. Right now around the country there are shops doing rebuilding and re-manufacturing of these classic instruments to a level better than the new work coming out of the factory and they are doing it for a much lower price than a new instrument. And there are no territory issues....you can go around and have the better shops rebuild one to order at any level of restoration you choose. Cincinnati Baldwins and Boston or Rochester Mason & Hamlins can be bought for less than Steinways because currently the name recognition of those brands has been lost, but the quality is still superb when rebuilt. The USA awash in fine old pianos that are waiting to be refreshed for a new life. There is no need to buy new pianos at high prices.
Any great rebuilder will tell you, a rebuilt piano is only as good as the rebuilder. You must also do a great amount of research when choosing someone to rebuild a piano.
Thank you for the history very interesting concern steinway What was or is the relationship Columbia broadcasting system and Steinway
Most musical people would agree that music and CBS do not get along well. CBS no longer has a financial interest in Steinway.
The only way that a company could own a music company and thrive would be due to a strong love of music, and CBS has only had a strong love of the almighty dollar.
Hi James..Thank you for this important information..
I really enjoy watching your fantastic channel..
RJ
Thank you for coming by.
It's awful that dealers want to control who you buy the piano from due to distance to the extent that you can't even get the piano that you feel is the best one and you're willing to travel to get. That's really awful.
It's a fact that made us buy a used piano for sure.
Sell Stoneways at WalMart, lol
umajunkcollector No. I would not want the good reputation of Sam Walton to be tarnished with the stained Steinway name.
Bösendorfer
I don't know what the Chinese government knows about music, but they must consider the acquisition of Steinway to be in their interest, which suggests that we should be cautious about doing business with it.
My piano tuner says Steinway pianos don’t stay tuned...they drift. He LOVES my 1971 Yamaha upright.
I bought a 48" Yamaha in 1974 when I worked for the local Steinway dealer! There was no comparison between the U1D and a SS 1098. This was 2 years after they sold out to CBS...
This video is very informative. I enjoyed your many videos.
That was a very interesting video about the history of pianos and Steinway in particular. I´d like to watch more videos like this in the future ! ? :-)
I have wanted to do this video for some time, but really was concerned about hurting Steinway. It was just that now things were getting so crazy that I couldn't hold it back any more.
Thought you might like to know that I just finished one on Bösendorfer to be uploaded tomorrow.
Thanks. It popped up in my sub feed and I am going to watch it now :-)
cool broski
Thank you, that was interesting and very eye-opening. I'd love a Steinway grand but that's not to be. I have a 78 Baldwin Acrosonic, good enough, I guess.
I love Baldwins too! Our family has worked on many older Acrosonics over the years.
ThePianoforever James does your family own a piano store?
No we have never owned a piano store, but we have repaired pianos as a hobby, and my mom taught piano for the same reason. I will start a recording studio in Tennessee and am presently in the process of setting that up. We just returned from three weeks working on the studio, and hope to return soon to continue working on the studio.
ThePianoforever Wish you all the BEST & Succsess for your future recording Studio Project.
RJ
Best place in the world for a recording studio.
My dream and wish is to have an own grand piano 😢😢
slippedisc.com/2018/08/steinway-to-be-sold-to-chinese-state-company/
It’s also important to remember that pianos go out of regulation even if they just sit and don’t get played.
They can, but it is a known fact that N.Y. Steinways were coming from the factory during certain years needing a great amount of regulation.
@@ThePianoforever And they are still dealing with the reputation from this era, fair or not.
And by Chinese government, you mean government run company, right? Eww, gross (I mean Chinese government run company.
Wow, this was fascinating and so clearly explained with your own telling experience as well as the general history! I didn't know any of this. I've been part of the general public that is just impressed by the name Steinway & Sons. And I think of Yamaha pianos* as excellent, too, but brighter, and for some classical pieces perhaps too bright. (In a recent review of the Yamaha P515, I believe you chose to play Satie in the Bösendorfer voice.)
* I began learning to play piano on a new Yamaha baby grand in a practice room at a university. Just the sound of it gave me goosebumps. It was so inspiring to play on, and my teacher was a graduate student in piano, who right away had me learning easy classical pieces and focusing on musicality. I was in heaven! Of course, I practiced scales, too, but I could see the need for that. Then he graduated and moved away, and soon after, I graduated too. With no amazing teacher and no piano, I stopped playing.
Now, 20 years later, I want to take up the piano again. I subscribed to your channel, because you offer clear, unbiased reviews of keyboards like the Yamaha P515 and the Kawai ES8,† which offer a reentry point for me at a price that makes sense for now. Living in a rural area during a pandemic, I suppose next I'll have to research piano lessons online.
† I really love your channel, and I see now that I have years of earlier videos to watch, while I wait for your direct comparison between those two contenders.
But......people pay top dollar for Steinway used pianos.....and piano technicians revamp the pianos and everyone pays top dollar. I can't think of how many Steinways that are OLD......redone by rechnician…..and PRICE GOES UP! Thanks for the mention about Baldwin - I have a Baldwin grand from 1960's …..and you're right - it's a good piano! I love the sound! Good job! Lots of relevant information!
I don't see this coming, really not. China's government has been quitting the control of production chain in the last 40 years, and in recent years it even quit the running of salt, which had controlled by government for over 2000 years. The only one stand a chance is Pearl River, but it spent tons of money from purchasing Schimmel.
Yamaha was doing the same thing in China, that only allow you to purchase from the local store, and also the warranty. Why these brands could not focus on what lead them to success?
Sad to hear about the venerable Steinway.
But not anymore a disaster because there are newer brands like the Fazioli, Yamaha CFX, the Shigeru Kawai, and the old European brands to take the place.
Hello. Looking at buying a piano, what can you tell me about a Steinveg? 1995
What are some questions I should ask? About it.
Thanks for any help.
Rene
One more reason to dislike Steinways. I never liked them as a brand anyways. Overrated and pricey. With the same money I can get a Bösendorfer, Fazioli or C.Bechstein.
Chinese want to buy Steinway and Sons to compete with the Japanese and Yamaha. I guess they have given up on quality and simply want to buy their way into quality.
Various experimental plastics were used in piano actions ..since injection moulding lended itself well to making tiny complex parts.. Pratt Reed...Rippen...and Knight all had their disasters..caused by brittleness and moisture absorption and deformation in the case of teflon.
These are great videos.. How do you think Kimball rate compared to Baldwin which seem to be readily available on used market?
Thanks
I can tell the difference in German Steinways, and the American ones. Both in action and brilliance of sound.
Gibson is kinda like the Steinway of the guitar world.
I think Steinway has been hyped up for a long time, Mason is better
rather odd if not sad story to hear about such a great piano maker!
i'm guessing it's due to some kind of a management change (perhaps even a major change in ownership?) that's making such truly bad marketing mistakes because you're right: that's not how a business, especially a well-reputed business works!
speaking of a Chinese take over of the Steinway ... well, let's see if Trump would agree with that? ;-)
almost OT; speaking of a light (soft) key action in pianos, i may have told you this in another one of your fine videos already: ever touched a British-made piano brand by the name of Challen by any chance?
i used to have an old used upright model of theirs in the 1970s (the piano itself was probably a 1950s or earlier model but not sure about that really) that did suffer from certain issues but the key-action on it was probably the lightest/softest i have experienced on a piano to this very day ... i also had the chance to play one of their grand models in a college in England for a short while and that one's key-action was also just as light/soft to the touch ...
if you ever happen to find one (i guess the company's no longer in business but not sure) you'd probably like it ...
some links to do with the Challen pianos:
www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=H2zrXNf2D4_F-gS_zoLgBQ&q=Challen+piano&oq=Challen+piano&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.6941.8989..22277...0.0..0.95.413.6......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i20i263j0i67j0i10i67.U1fmC1k8JdA
The Steinway family is no longer involved in the making of pianos. Presently Steinway is up for sale to what it would seen to be for the highest bidder. The owner is a hedge fund manager and wants to sell it to double his money, but seems to have been having problems finding a buyer that will pay his price. I personally do not feel this will end nicely.
@@ThePianoforever more disheartening news then! if the Steinway piano's situation is that bad, then probably the Chinese take over wouldn't be so bad after all ...
China's been notorious for making cheap corny electronics or mechanical tools of all kinds but something many people simply don't see is the fact that China makes high quality products as well: just check out most components and motherboards in majority of the computers, laptops and tablets and smartphones all over the world: MADE IN CHINA! and they do it at a very low price too ...
if China just sponsors the Steinway by keeping the good personnel and workers there to continue doing the good old stuff again, that could go well actually ...
Don't have it sold to China, it's a waste!
Hahaha! The Chinese government will never run a piano manufactory! It may be sold to a Chinese investor or a company but never to the government...
A distinction without a difference.
1:52 might be a little generous, Weber and several other companies gave some fierce competition to S&S. And over in Europe you had pianos just as good or better by Bechstein, Bluthner & Bosendorfer And like you said, Baldwin later became Steinway peer
This video was dealing only with the N.Y. Steinway, as the Hamburg Steinway was always held to higher standards.
ThePianoforever all I’m trying to get at is that Steinway has always had competition, in the states and abroad, with other high end manufacturers, in the 1880s to 1920s that company was Weber, later Baldwin and now they’ve just about monopolized the concert stage
Thank You!! :)
Thank you to my friend from Indiana.
you're welcome, take care!
did this happen?
Oh, very interesting
Glad you stopped by.
Are "we" surprised...?
When the last investor purchased the company a while back the writing seemed to be on the wall.
Exactly. And of course, China seemingly wants to "own" everything and everyone. Period. Thank You for the feedback. I enjoy your channel.
Thanks James for a most informative video! Have you done any video on tips for adult learning to play ?
Thank you! And no, I have not done any videos like that.
What a great idea, Pandji Christian! James, I'm sure an adults-learning-to-play-piano video would be a big hit! It could also be very informative and helpful. Most of the comments here are by people who are very experienced with and knowledgeable about pianos, but a lot of your subscribers, especially new subscribers (c'est moi) and potential subscribers could really benefit from such a video.
I really hope not to sell Steinway to China Government or company. Thank you for your explanation.
I don't know of anyone who thinks that is a good idea, but the future is at risk anyway you look at it.
I have never liked the sound of Steinway - tone has an edge, like breaking glass. Steinway has fallen behind the competition.
Are you independently wealthy JPS? How do you earn your livelihood? Do you concertize?
You are definitely a super musician, very skilled, and as a speaker, articulate in a great way!
Not wealthy. I have spent my college fund in setting up my recording studio. I live very simple, and basically spend all my money on music. My only source of income presently is my TH-cam channel.
The Chinese is is going to ruin the brand. Look at what they did to IBM PC