Blizzard does not care about PvPers. We're on a near decade-old honor system that offers the worst rewards for time spent I've likely ever seen in a game. It has a massively flawed ranking system that Blizzard just artificially band-aid fixes instead of gutting it with a redux, we get zero content outside of mass recycled maps, a BG every few xpacs, a new arena (this is not content), and you have a system in place that doesn't actually incentivize players to queue until the final weeks. Classes are left unbalanced for weeks to months at a time, there is no communication to the player base addressing issues or concerns, when they nerf due to PvE issues they just blanket nerf not checking to see if said spec(s) were under/overperforming when they have the tech and ability to nerf/buff separately. This isn't even about "not caring" anymore -- it's a blanket statement of full neglect.
Spot on man the only thing I would add from a personal perspective is that I genuinely detest how the new damage profiles are. Some of the classes are just unfun to play now because of how much they’ve changed.
Any why would they? To fix the problems with pvp, it would take a Herculean effort and a massive amount of money to fix a system that very few people care about, nobody plays it, so it shouldn’t take up any resources, pvp players feel disenfranchised because they are, and it’s not going to change. The game was never about pvp in the first place, and it was always just sort of a mini game.
@@aidanproy1484 So small-minded. This happens when you regurgitate the "majority's" opinion attempting to look informed. WoW is a sub-based game -- why wouldn't want literally all facets of 'your' game to be premium quality? Is it acceptable to not dedicate "resources" to a player base that pays for their sub just like everyone else? If PvP was fun, had regular content drops, was balanced, and found its groove with replayability -- the result would be massive; you'd have people returning to the game and have the secret ingredient: new players actually sticking around and hopefully a reason for PvEers to step in. Defend them all you want, but just look at how putting all their eggs in one basket looks when they can't even get M+ right. Ven is right about it affecting everyone, but you can't call WoW a good game when it willingly accepts parts of its game being on fire. That's not okay. Ever.
Untill the player numbers drastically lower they will not learn. But yet again let's just release earlier versions of the game.when the game was actually good over and over without putting any effort into making something and make billions. Genius marketing model. We're the idiots for falling for it 😂
Tbf they can keep feeding you lot shit and you all lap it up every time. Why put effort into the game when they get all their money off of a store mount lol
Comments like this are everywhere and I want you to realize they make no sense. They're all built on top of one assumption, that playing competitively is not fun. Do you think that is an universal objective truth? What if being competitive is fun to some players? Have you considered that? If you had, you wouldn't post this comment, neither would the other thousands who posted the same comment for decades.
I only play for fun! Nothing serious about a video game! I don’t care about BIS gear or being raider io ranked! I play with my friends and we have all types of fun! If you don’t have fun that’s on you chasing to be elite just play the game and have fun for what it is!
When you play against other players, the point is to be competitive. Also, gearing has never been easyer in PvP. The problem is the complexity of all classes.
Most subbed players don't give a fuck about consistent mythic+ and pvp that play the game. It's a hard pill to swallow for lots of people, but this is the reality of it. Those communities that do are the ones not having fun anymore.
When we say tank/healer have more to do in dungeon it's not referring to some loose category like "holding threat". it means that my Ppal have 4 short duration buff to keep up for the entire 30 minute dungeon otherwise I fall short of block cap and die. If I don't farm enough CDR fast enough, my defensive CD won't be up in time for the next tank buster and I die. When the tank die the group die, and the key is over. If my disc priest don't farm enough CDR and is 3 second late on shadowfiend, I do half the healing during the boss burst damage and the group die. If I'm 0,5 late on mind blast mid-ramp I do half the healing and the group die. a DPS can simply ask to hold off lust for another 10 second if he need more time for his CD to come back and that's it. The complains come from how unforgiving tanking/healing key is... DPS'ing key feel like a game. Tanking/healing feel like a job.
I happily tank dungeon and raid finder. It's fun. I happily heal dungeon and raid finder it's fun. I used prot on some delves when I not surviving. Tank a mythic? You must know everything as tank. You run the whole dungeon. It requires research. I had people shouting / mashing their keyboards at me blaming me for every death because I 'didnt hold agro' and 'stood out of melee range of the boss' so they died. I have flying shields everywhere, and show everyone where im standing with consecration. But it's the tanks fault that a dps pulls or attacks mobe I'm not attacking 😂. So now I'm a basic retadin. Go in, top dps meter and chill. I still don't know all the boss mechanics most of them... I only subbed a month ago... and I'm pleased to say I levelled 5 80s. Earned 150k gold, got my main to ilvl 613, got 50 new mounts, including Siesbarg and Lucid Nightmare among others and I'll resub again in another 5 years. Having played on/off since Vanilla and having not played since Legion... Nobody talks, there's no adventure, there's no fun group content, there's no interaction, it's just headbutt keyboard and follow arrows in a rush to meet the target. They could make it so much more chill and fun.
It's the hamster wheel. Every expansion we get new content that's fun to see and explore but then it quickly goes stale. Mythics are still the same group size, same mechanics, same carrot vs the stick. You work for the same rating you had before. But finding groups is a huge pain because unless you are a healer or tank, it's a 30min to 2hr gamble to even get invited. Then the season ends and it's the hamster wheel all over again with the only difference being you are doing in different dungeons. PvP is the same. One new pvp battle but the rest are exactly the same. Same group size, same thing all over again. Rating really doesn't mean much unless you are in the top 5%. Then you realize you are the hampster for all the effort you put in, you are in the same spot you were 10 years ago.
I am a healer. I played 1000+ rounds this season and my mmr has been stuck at 2100 since before the "MMR Injection". I stopped queueing 2 weeks ago and am just way happier now. Healing is unpleasant because my job is keeping people alive, but a lot of that decision making is in their hands, but I'm the one that gets flamed. Everyone is frustrated by not being able to progress their characters this season, and too many people are willing to take that frustration out on each other. I would queue again if I believed I actually had a chance to push 2400. Without out that there's nothing else for me in shuffle. If I could hit 2400 I would be working on healer alts and pushing them as well.
I did 2400 with holy priest cause that’s the class I like, but that was after 1500 games I can tell you is not worth it. Low CR players in greens joining lobby making you go 3/3 or one bad player losing all 6 games you end up in the same spot.
I tried starting to heal and didn't even try till I had full conquest. Each battle is like a freakin panic attack yet, yeah, im the one who gets raged on if they die when they zug in behind a pillar. It's rough but ill probly just keep struggling on lol
95,2% of players doesn't PvP because the gameplay is shit. Rewards or rank overhaul wont change a thing. Who wants to play when every class has 5 micro-cc's, 3 knockbacks, a tp, infinite mobility while all they do is spamming an AoE rotation and you need a weakaura for every 500 CD's that exist. Class identity doesn't exist in the game anymore like it used to, everyone has everything thanks to m+. Every damage button has a built in AoE from a passive in the tree and everyone is as fast as a lamborghini nowdays. People are not playing because the gameplay isn't fun, if it was fun people would be playing now. Other games have active players because their game is fun to play.
I disagree heartily. Wow gameplay is in one of its better stages right now, I'm actually enjoying playing a lot. But the systems and reward structures are just from a different time.
Where do you people get this? Pvp is huge in this game when the game doesnt suck. tich, sargeras, a52, kz, emerald dream, etc are all high/full servers and almost entirely pvp players. No one is hardly playing the game at all anymore is the problem. m+ design ruined the game.
This is 100% spot on and correct. The class design is horribly homogenized. There is no class identity or differentiation. It’s okay if one class has shit AoE but great ST or one spec has incredible utility that can win matches or stop goes but isn’t the best at ST burst. Turning the game into Fortnite where we all play the same with minor changes depending on our gun is boring and other games (shooters) offer that already
Queue times in PVP are terrible. I only have 1-2 hours to play at night, and every queue takes 15-20 minutes of waiting. Then horde loses the 80% of battlegrounds... such a waste of time.
Alliance loses all the time as well. It’s not really a horde or alliance thing… it’s a matchmaking and luck thing. Most winning games are stomps. Hardly ever a balanced game with a close win or loss.
@@SIIKAP1nah sorry man but alliance win 70-80% of the time I play ALOT of BGs on both factions and horde are honestly so bad you just get quick ques is the only up side
And don't forget that the conquest set grind takes WAY too much fuckin time per character, not everyone enjoys how toxic rating grinds are so you grind regular casual modes and it'll take Hella long to get decent gear that isn't honor
@@danielsmith2483 well, so do I. And winning or losing is a gamble every game. Some days you win a lot, some days you lose a lot. It doesn’t matter the faction, as I play both as well. If I keep losing on alliance, i’ll go to horde, thinking we’ll win, but nope. And before anyone gets any bright ideas, i’m duelist, which isn’t glad or anything, but it’s better than most people you play with in BGs.
Core of the problem is, we are addicted, we invested 10-20 years in this game, and its hard to stop, as its with any addiction. Wast majority of player base is for sure 30+ years old. and we cant get similar dopamine hit from any other game, like we do from wow. and reality is, wow is mediocre for last 8 years. If only we stoped playing, and hit their wallet, they would do something. but we dont so here we are
@@Laito21 Yeah, because junkies only use high quality drug right? Well, they don't, they use bad quality drugs, mixed with crap, because they have nothing else.
"investing" in this game is impossible when everything resets every 6months. I logged on to my mage with over 100days played and I literally have nothing to show for this collosal waste of time except for a bunch of lame mounts. I can play eve online and quit for a couple years and all the assets acquired stay relevant when I come back. Way more respect for your time in that game
I just came back after a 15 year layoff from WoW for TWW, I play 1 or 2 days/week, I'm definitely not addicted and I still think the endgame content progression system sucks. I liked how raiding was when I played in WoTLK, but wish there was a LFG system like there is now and I didn't have to rely on guilds or spamming general chat in order to pug. Mythic and gear upgrading/crests are so stupid and confusing.
He said no other part of wow punishes you and sets you back, but in PvP you actually lose rating. No matter what you do, you will never lose rating in keys. Your key might go down one but you still have the same rating and you can always work that rating up eventually.
100% - that’s unfortunately something people today just don’t understand. They’ve practically stopped thinking for themselves. There always has to be some content creator out there with an answer. For a short while, it was fine - TH-cam was full of people who actually helped. But content creators like him are just scum who make a living off of this, and, like in this case, even make people feel bad about playing a game.
I quit like a year ago. My group had all of these conversations as far back as BFA. Nothing in Bel's video is new, it's the same topics we've been yelling about for multiple years/expansions.
Yep, unfortunately the only thing we can do is opt out and hope that enough other people opt out so blizzard is forced to rethink their scam... I mean design philosophy. Capitalism is a tug of war between corporations who want only profit at any cost, and consumers who SHOULD want quality and value. But if the consumers are too dumb to demand quality and value, and simply throw money at anything the corporation releases... The corporation is not going to focus on quality and value. They will simply focus on what is "good enough" to keep profits flowing.
Great video. I started WoW 3 months ago. I have experience in other MMOs. I, for a reason i wont get into, have had a bunch of time on my hands, and i wanted to finally try WoW. I love healing in other games, so i wanted to try most of the healers available. I got 3 healers to 70 plus..and others in the 20s and 30s. To be honest, my experience was horrible. Even after i told people i was a new player and of course a new healer. Mechanics etc are NOT the problem The players are the problem...I lost count how many people whispered me to quit or not Q. Mind you this was leveling where people learn. not end game...my final straw was being kicked from group when tank pulled 3 or 4 groups and died while i was drinking. I gave up..and just started classic...People seem very nice...well, nicer..lol. I was healin as a druid, people said classes were more important in classic..so i started a priest and pally...we'll see. anyway...CULTURE needs to change or WoW wont get new noobs like me...
Dampening is bad for the game, especially from a healer perspective. If feels bad playing arena games where my team dies to absolutely nothing (dampening) and I wasn't even CC chained as a healer, the enemy team was just spamming damage like they are in an M+. Remove dampening and maybe buff CC chains, remove micro CC, and make people relearn how to CC and interrupt healers again.
You where right, except the dampening. its like healers can outheal everything in battlegrounds and world pvp, because it lacks dampening. dampening is what make games end, so its not 45mins draws like back in TBC.
@@holmer1982 I've experienced what you're talking about. I've even been in some 45 min draw healer/dps 2v2 games in Wrath and Cata. I still would take dampening out. It would be a buff to double DPS 2s and would incite more double DPS games. Dampening encourages bad gameplay, like playing defensive and waiting for it to kick in before going for a kill. I also think things will die without dampening. BG Blitz is the best PvP mode currently, and it doesn't have dampening, and I have yet to play a blitz game without any deaths on either side. Not only do players die in blitz, they die fast. As long as DPS and CC is high, things can die, even with no dampening.
@@andrewcramer thats why its good to have different game modes, because we really dont agree on best game mode. I think blitz has become the worst after it got rated. Because you have so little influence especially as a dps. If you have 1 bad or not great dps, its not that big of a deal, but if you have 1 great healer on 1 side or 1 poor at 1 side, the side with best healers will almost always win. To see a mw and disc keep everyone alive all game because every button makes ppl go to full health, is really annoying. The insane amount of defensive cd's and instant bigheals with no dampening is not great. I have seen games where only 1 side is getting kills.
@@holmer1982 Well, semi off-topic but I personally hate all of the different game modes. 5 different versions of classic, then shuffle vs real 3v3, blitz vs rbgs. The player base is way too split up. I agree blitz isn't great in the grand scheme of WoW's pvp history, but it seems to be the most popular pvp mode right now. It might be because of MMR as well. I've been in those bad games too where one side gets farmed. Usually that team has low DPS overall or weak healing and the team is just chain dying. It happens
Some easy solutions: Remove healers and tanks from PvP unrated and rated. Put 1v1 ranked arena. Add Glad mount to EVERY rated mode. Fix MMR system like it was on the first week of TWW and leave it there (meaning a good casual player should reach 2400 rating and be able to push for glad mount. Top players must play at 3000 rating). Thats it.
@Thunderstar4 exactly. There is no mode that you can learn your class in pvp. Only 2v2, which contains a healer 99% of the time, meaning a total different gameplay. Then we have 3v3 and 10v10+. It would be really nice to have a competitive 1v1, even if balance wouldn't be around 1v1.
damage down is a pretty bad idea. Because if a dps gets hit by damage.. the healer does not want the player debuffed on top of having to heal him. It's a double negative. The healer would rather the dps get hit and not also then have a weakened dps
I've been experiencing all these problems with mythic+ and I enjoy playing the game but to progress past 11s I never get invited into 12s and I have great gear and over 2700 score. On top of that I had 4 mythic track slots in my vault and got three 1handed weapons and a non upgrade this week. I am now officially playing classic and not coming back to retail.
Similar story here except i did do 12s and its still a shitshow, 1 wipe and the key is over. 11s are not good practice for 12s. ill be back for retail depending on the 11.1 patch
I crashed during a blitz game lost 300 rating, I rebooted the pc as fast as i could and relogged and had be removed with a leave ban "account wide". I was literally a game away from 1800 "nothing flash" but ever since then 1800 in blitz seems to be a dream. My conclusion is that losing 300 rating for a DC/crash with no window Eg "2min relog" since they don't fill as far as im a wear and on top of that you can reque for 30min-1hr that is far too harsh when i only get like 60-80 per "Win" and bizzard really needs too do something about that. Since then im sceard that ill dc or crash and lose another 300 so im left with "whats the point of trying too push". I feel like i cant be the only one to have experienced this more then once
I got the original spirit of competition pet back in the early days and was so proud to rock my tabard. I really only played wow for casual bgs or world PVP but it became so unrewarding and unengaging that I haven't bought the last few expansions. Wish they could make it work
The game has been in a state of copy+paste for the last 10 years. We keep getting the same half ass game. Not even fully complete. This expansion had so many bugs that still persist to this day. There’s private servers that are better kept than retail.
22:38 The reason this doesn't make sense is because if you needed to do a key 10 times to learn how to do it, you would still need to do it 10 times to learn how to do it now but you get downranked every time. Would be nice to give you an option to reroll it or not at the end though.
By my side, I'd like to say that a GOOD idea to make dual system of progression :when you ll have two roles and two pers in one basket. For Example you can play dps+heal, or heal+tank while one of them would be controlled by yourself, second one by UI with your adjusted settings/macro etc. In this case pro-healers could play on dps istead have pocket healer with his own adjustments. In that case mythic could work with 3 players, who's have 6 pers under control, each player have their own two dudes under control :main+UI. The rate of received gear could be worster then for solo content, but at least that's a way to give up New players game more enjoy. Pvp is harder to adjust, but... at least it also can be reverse for dual /solo rating,. Sorry for my English)))
I haven’t played wow in a week or more. Was on a serious kick for like 10-11 months straight but I’m so stuck that I have no idea what to do. Every class at 80 and I can’t stand doing keys or raids. So I beat the game . PvP rewards too hard to get queues too long
Go check out his channel. What’s the ratio of 'videos that help new players get into WoW PvP' to 'videos that drive new players away because he only focuses on problems'? Honestly, WoW has gotten so big that (unfortunately) you can survive just off negative headlines. There are plenty of people who just want to feel validated in their decision to not want to play anymore. Classic Andys, FFXIV Andys, GW2 Andys... the list goes on.
The issue is that the development teams are completely different. GGG actually plays and enjoys their game, it's a passion project. All the OG designers at Blizzard are all long gone, the people at helm now don't care or play WoW. How can a game that's 20 years old require balance patches every month? Not even micro-tuning but full on class identity reworks. It doesn't take two decades to decide what a frost mage should play like. The fact is the team doesn't know what to do so they keep shooting in the dark hoping something sticks. If that fails, monetise nostalgia while they cook up another half baked idea.
Regarding the timer depletion on death, @17:40, that mechanic was introduced because people would perform death skips. The main issue here is that you are forced into a cheesy playstyle in order to skip the hardest packs of the dungeon where maybe you didn't have shroud or mobs had true sight. Blizzard wanted to get rid of it especially when it was showcased for all to see during MDI events. The timer penalty on death does in fact make sense, when you go back and see how the game was played without it.
IT WAS VERY CLEAR FROM BEFORE 2000's THAT MMORPGS ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE! sure they are popular with a lot of players but TRYING TO MAKE THEM FOR EVERYONE INCLUDING THE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT ENJOY CHALLENGE, PROGRESSION, RPGS or GROUP PLAY is the reaason why the game is in a horrible state. Terrible solutionism is only a result of trying to fix the game for everyone for all demands. You cant make it harder and easier at thesame time, You cant have long and rewarding progression journey of leveling and put people in the end game within aa week! THESE ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE!
back in the days we had no addons no data to flex about other than a dummy and being invited to a group where you showcase your dps and rotation and get accepted :) BEST DAYS
I'm a healer in PVE and this is the worst thing to play to try to have fun. It's either you push keys and you have so much to do, fill with dps abilities when you can, stun, interrupt, call for mecanics. If people play well your healing is pretty fine, but if you're in a group were they fuck up every pull you struggle as hell or they get one shoted and you get blames. Second option you just farm lower content, and it's boring because you just spam one DPS ability to be 1/10th of a real dps which is lets face it pretty much useless. Since there is nothing to heal or nothing really dangerous for your group so you are sleeping. I wish i could do real damage like tanks and feel useful in other way than feeling that i have to fill a position in a group where if people play well you are useless. I mean look at Zmok doing +16 without a healer. It says it all. And yet i'm there struggling in +12 because people don't know when to use defensive or keep toping the avoidable damage chart.
Idk man bro lost me when said “no other mode in the game punishes you as much a key depletion” like what does he mean? I’ve lost 400 rating healing shuffles cause donkeys can’t use a parry into a meta pop.
I think what one of the streamers that were watching your video was referring to was kind of how when you complete a key as somebody who joins a group of the same level that your current key is or higher you have the option of changing it. That would be an option if you have banged your head against the wall on a key for three or 45 runsmaybe you no longer want to try that key and you wanna try a different key at the same level, so at the end of the run, you should have the option to say hey let me switch my key and this way you get the best of both worlds. You can either continue trying your key because you don’t have to click that option or if you’re tired of trying with little success, you have the option to move onto another one.
IMO the biggest problem is how many keybinds and buttons you have to have to play at the best the class offers was a manage enthusiast and then switched to BM Hunter in dragon flight and quit shortly after that
9:15 I have been saying this for a few months now. I also commented under the PoddyC that PvP has similar problems with defenses and dmg spikes. Glad that the awareness of these problems are becoming mainstream.
I am a vet healer that played from vanilla to Cata as a healer and then switched to dps as main. I tried healing again each new addon, but either quit the game or sticked to dps. The main reason - healing became a rotational button smashing similar to DPS, but more complicated and sweaty. Instead of slower, strategic resource management gameplay it was some time ago.
The reason there are low amounts of healers in PvP and the same applies to Mythic + is because those roles are actually very stressful, very tedious and at times enraging to play. No DPS in the world gets blamed when they mess up their burst in PvP - but if a healer messes up their healing, it's a lost round. Responsibility is huge and the number one thing that healers in PvP complain about is the dreaded 3-3 - yes, some DPS slacked, or whatever is the reason - even if all DPS are playing good, you're still more likely to go 3-3 than anything else because healers, USUALLY, have no agency to impact the games (Blizzard wanted to fix this by adding damage to healers, healers want to heal, not do damage). That is the real reason why people don't like healing. At least, not in solo shuffle. Hell, at this point, make a 4v4 bracket with 1 healer, just tone the damage down so that a healer can actually heal through that and see where it goes. That's 2 more DPS players per game. Mythic+ tanking and healing is just horrendous at this point. Tanks were nerfed to oblivion (any 10 key is a sweatfest EVERY trash pull), Healers are constantly healing 25%>100% - 33%>100% on tanks who are rotating their cooldowns to the best of their ability. They need to mostly revert the tanking nerfs that happened at the start but not making them into absolute immortal gods. You want people to play the least-played roles, they are least-played roles for a reason, there is 0 incentive to make those roles even harder or more tedious to play.
No content creator is trustworthy. People make their money with headlines. And with the way the world is right now, you make more money with negative headlines. Look at his videos. In how many of them does he actually help or include new players in WoW-PvP?
Retail gets really jarring when you play classic for a bit. Obviously there are a ton of QoL improvements, but there are a ton of things that simply feel worse
For once I don't mind the balance of pvp right now. It is the total lack of anything fun outside of instanced pvp. All these new zones but no pvp events or world quests outside of weekly sparks. It isn't that complicated to create some dynamic pvp events that run on a timer that are actually fun-centric with cool rewards. Soloqueue pvp has its flaws but the trade off is not having to sit around waiting for a group to form longer than 10-15 minutes, and it is relatively stable queue times. Clone the Soloqueue system for pve and give it a rating and be done with it. That's what Bliz will end up doing anyway. Rewards for pvp are abysmal. A total overhaul of pvp is needed in terms of fresh content. Releasing a new arena or bg map is not anywhere close to enough. New Soloqueue mount for 50 wins above 2400. New arenas and bgs and new game modes would be a solid start.
This is why i play classic, at least the pvp makes sense. Each class has a perk that you could want. In retail you can play any class and itll have anything you need.
I was a long time healer and a long time pvper. I stopped playing pvp, just felt stuck and never progressed, so I stopped. I use to be a 2k+ player that was stuck in 1500 to 1600 solo. I then went to pve as a healer, did that for awhile and had fun. Then stopped healing there, annoying how much more responsibility you have compared to dps or even a tank (I'm tanking now 2k+ IO on all tanks). Healers have far too much they are responsible for. DPS doesn't care if they take extra damage, tanks don't care if they take extra damage, the mindset is always the healer will take care of it or THEY suck. I don't have any intention of going back to pvp unless there is a 100% rework. Instead of giving it a try again I just go and download / play a different game.
I'm not having fun in either pve or pvp, wow used to be chill and relaxing to play. Now it's 10k apm button mashing in every type of content. Too much ability clutter (There's no way to fit all abilities without using macros and alot extra quickbars, 12 button mouse etc). They even gutted the only spec I like, resto druid through the floor. Healing sux so hard now, RIP healing kitty :(
This brings me back to visions, and how Blizz had a GREAT thing going on with them. They should've built on visions from BFA and made it so you can earn endgame gear from it.
I had fun in solo rbgs and got 2400 that way at the beginning of the season, despite it taking like 100 matches due to the rating gain cap. Blizzard will never give arena the support it deserves, so I only play it when dps queues aren’t 30 minutes long
People get 6M+ gear from delves, but then are forced to do M+ for better upgrades. Proper solution: Make delve gear scale to max ilvl, even if it means making them super hard. Blizzard's solution: Make delve gear garbage so nobody plays them. Mark my words-they WILL do it this way.
Ya surprised they haven't nerfed delves already lol...right now you more gold from time walking dungeons than mythic dungeons.. its like they want to make it a miserable experience.
Two days ago I did a Blitz where a player on my team was AFK from the beginning and got kicked from the match. Down a player we obviously lost pretty quickly. I lost 14 points for that match. Later that day I had a match where my team started with 7 people and one person actually left as well, so we got stomped down 6-8. I lost 15 points for that match. I was done with rated PVP after that day and haven't queued since. So little effort goes into PVP on Blizzard's part that it's not worth continuing to play. Just get your personal goal like mount or mog and then quit.
This is my first expansion ever doing Tank warrior and although it started off absolutely rough I kind of like the intense gameplay and mapping routes but unlike most pugs I'm usually in comms with my healer which is like almost a requirement. I'd say maybe dial it back from 10 to like 8.
I quit healing solo shuffle cause the way the rating works. You go 3-3 cause you have a bad dps and gain nothing. I'm a glad experienced healer. Not even gold would get me healing again.
I don’t think that making people climb through each key level is necessary. Assuming you need 30 minutes to complete a dungeon, 8 total dungeons, and a key goal of 10s across the board, that would take 2400 minutes, or 40 hours. That doesn’t include queue times, and doesn’t allow for a single failed key.
Challenge mode: gold itemisation was the best. If they could make gear scale up towars the content where it was looted but not BiS for others, that would fix the gearing problem. I remember gearing out from heroics just to get the best stats (i can't remember if sockets), just to go and try over and over some challenge mode: golds, and it was hell of fun. If we could add an iteration of this system to modern WoW, it would help people to play whatever they like, but not overperforming for other kinds of content, forcing a given player to actual play the game and progress through every content: If you are a peak player in arena, you can get your gear to the "pre-BiS" gear in other forms of content (let's say max hero gear for every content out of arena). If you are a peak player in M+, you can get your gear to the "pre-BiS" gear in other forms of content (let's say max hero gear for every content out of M+). If you are a peak player in delves, you can get your gear to the "pre-BiS" gear in other forms of content (let's say max hero gear for every content out of delves). Mythic raiding should still be what it is, just because it is "hard" and probably, WoW's essence. Personally, I would like to see a WoW season where item level would be "always blue", but with alot of borrowed power (sockets, procs, tier bonuses...), with ilvl scaling in a given content; if you progress higher, you get better rewards that will be useful in that given content, but trivial compared to other items in other content. That would give not raiding PvEers an easy way to start up gearing fresh characters, with a feeling of progression, and also, not allowing boosteds to get BiS in Mythic or whatever other content, to jump and be BiS in every other content.
You need to disconnect from WoW for an extended period of time and play other games, it's like a drug and you won't truly understand until you're on the other side.
13:41 I'm sorry, but who is inviting non-rated players who have semi-decent gear into their +6s and expect it to go well? You only do that in +2 and only because nobody runs m0 so there's no reasonably lower key to run below that. At +6 I'd only invite low rated players if they have one of two things: a ++ in that dungeon at +4 level or +++ in any other dungeon, or if they have a main linked to that character which has strong rating. The fact this is happening is such a foreign concept to me and completely counter to my general experience of being denied for any key level I haven't done at a level above it.
I agree i don't play mythic as ques of a night time take ages to get a group together so i do delves but hit the point that i get nothing from them. So hit the point that i do my vaults and then move on to the next alt. I like healing but never got into PVP and never found anyone in game to have the time to do pvp games so i can learn how to heal in pvp tactics. Maybe Blizzard need to do a coaching pvp for Healers and Tanks bit like the follower dungeons.
Greetings Venruki, the truth is that the problem with WoW is Blizzard, but currently there are many better and free games to play, think about it, people are paying to not have fun, there is not much to understand why people do not play, but it is a shame because the gameplay in general shows that there is no clear idea of Blizzard, it seems that they do not know their own game, that is the feeling that it gives about the developers, there are many things that are not right in the game.The game needs people, that's the problem with the game, nobody wants to play a game that's bad, and besides you have to pay, even though I like wow, that's the reality from an objective point of view.
If solo-Q M+ is implemented, it for sure needs a Yelp! Review type system and a way to weight it into group compositions. I dont wanna solo-Q into a dungeon on my mage with a Brewmaster who cant stay alive or an hpriest that cant make aoe healing checks. Theres exceptional players of every spec, but unless they undo tank nerfs and re-buff aoe healing spells to make these rolls much easier, I'm likely to desert my soloQ dungeons too.
i just realized what is going on. its like learning piano, practice all the time and you will be successful. this is not a game you can play 20 minutes between family time and be successful.
Working up in M+ , advance to +3 by completing +2, u leave the key like an a$$hole, u lose 2 ranks in progress, if something goes poop, set a vote to abandon key without punishment or restart.
Blizzard does not care about PVPers, or Mythic+ enjoyers. They've always only cared about the dang raids and it's just become more obvious this season.
I feel like ESO solved a lot of these issues in their game. In ESO, the tank is really only responsible for holding threat on the boss/lieutenant in a pack. The minions often fixate on other members of the party and it is their responsibility to either CC or kill them. This spreads the responsibility around and encourages players to use their defensive abilities naturally. I think this would help PvP as well because class design could focus less on cleaving and AoE micro CCs.
Long Video response dissertation incoming: With regards to healers in PvP, especially Solo Shuffle, I am still firmly resolved that it is rating that is the problem. I dont care about gold. I think more people would be inclined to heal if the rating was adjusted for healers specifically. I dont care if they receive 100 points for a 3/3 lobby. I dont care if they get 25 points more rating per win than a DPS. Personally, I was hoping Solo Shuffle would be where people were cutting their teeth in competitive arena. However, it is unfortunate that it has become the default and murdered 2v2 and 3v3 brackets. This is understandable when one considers the alternative is grabbing a random from LFG (really no better than Solo Shuffle match making process) and then slowly by surely grinding your way up a bracket 15 points per win at a time. Instead, just Q solo shuffle, get a favorable lobby and have 2k plus MMR off your first 6/0 and gain hundreds of rating. Wash rinse repeat 5 times 1800 MoG done. I do think bliz could fix that by adjusting rating gains in those brackets to make them more appealing like if I beat a 1900 rated team in my first match, let me get my 300+ rating gain man. This huge jump should keep happening till my Rating is even with the teams Im competing against. Not these silly 18 and 20 point incremental changes. At a minimum rating should be adjusted massively in 2v2 and 3v3 based on participation in those brackets and while we may not have the exact number Bliz certainly does and there is no excuse for ignoring this glaring problem which has caused 75% of my friends list (all PvPers) to cancel their subs already when they were really excited about TWW. His assertion around 18:27 that no other area of the game sets punishes you by setting your progress back is reflective of someone with limited PvP experience or willfull blindness. I have seen even certain (ahem clears throat) blizcon Champions get set back 100+ rating and be hard stuck at the new lower rating in a bad Q session in PvP. It is my understanding that Mythic+ players do not lose rating for failure. I am not saying they should have their keys bricked I am just pointing out the game does take away players progress for failure in other areas of the game. Also, not a hill I want to die on because I have extremely limited Mythic+ experience (only when forced by my brother) but Tanks do still have to deal with threat issues not as much in experienced groups but as this video points out some people are coming directly from delves into Mythic+. I have seen a mage go brazy on AoE when the tank hss barely initiated the pull, and the mobs responded accordingly. Final side note the chat participant that said his opinions should carry little value because he is barely an ahead of the curve player IS THE PROBLEM. Thanks for the video Champ.🫡
How many people do you put your trust in in life, and their career is the thing you trust them to be good at. Doctors School Teachers Bus Drivers Airline Pilots ect. There are MANY people that work in these industries that chose to do it primarily because the pay is good, but you still get the surgery all the same. Reward the Tanks and Healers.
Bro u need to ask Blizzard to get rid of every addon that makes screen look like a hacking battle ground...It's so annoying to watch....It passively makes the players themselves get tired....They don't even realise it themselves....PvP will be harder at start bt eventually players will get used to it!!
Making +2-10 queued, and leaving 11+ in the group finder is the perfect solution imo. Edit: Also the primary counter argument to removing depletion (which I agree with) is that it would incentivize toxic behavior like doing crazy pulls early in the dungeon to save time, and chain-resetting until it works. However, this could be fixed by just adding "charges" to keystones (e.g. you can fail it X number of times before it depletes). Additionally, the aforementioned toxic behavior only matters for title keys, so maybe anything below a +10 should just not deplete, and only 11+ have the possibility to deplete after X failures. There are so many solutions to some of these problems, but Blizzard just doubles down constantly on punishing people and wasting their time via overly aggressive systems. Kiss/Curse mechanics are a great way to incentivize behavior, but I also think Blizzard relies too heavily on the Curse mechanics. Give people bonuses for correctly doing mechanics, don't punish them for failing. It's the exact same result, by psychologically feels much better.
I am wondering if a personal loot system ilvl etc. based off players performance in any group or solo content could help the game. The better you do by interupting, dodging mechanics and or pumping big numbers etc.
Over the past few years, I feel like every game has shifted over for casual players to try and increase their player base, which in turn ruins the game for the true fans. You either get hand held through all the content, or spawn with everything pretty much gifted to you on a platter without doing anything
At the end of a run, allow each player to give out a single thumbs up to another player. Have this factor into that player's rating score. Make it a scoreboard with unlocks.
Why cant once you complete all portals at level 10 you can get an achievement that grants an omni keystone and then you can slam in any key in any dungeon at any level.
i wait 10 minutes for a battleground just to get destroyed from the enemy group and find out after 20 seconds that we will lose the bg.... everyone leaves the bg... log in another char....repeat....and sometimes we will do this to the enemy...sometimes a whole day without a good battleground... THE BURST DMG IN TWW IST JUST STUPID
The only way to save PvP in retail is to simplify the abilities used. Each class needs 8-10 abilities for it to be considered a serious e-sport. It would not be difficult for the PvE version of the game to separate from the PvP version in terms of abilities and the values of those abilities.
Nah even for pvp, Whats shit about pvp is that you have to basically spec into every extra defensive and cc skill, they need to just drop the amount of abilities in the game by half, that'll make balancing easier and make pvp and pve less of a headache, my unholy dk has 3 full bars of abilities including consumable like healthstones and health pots and it still fights at a lower level than things like bm hunters, the game rn has too much bloat for some classes and too little for others, they need to keep all classes at like 15abilities max imo
I heal for the fast Q’s. I’d love to dps but I have no patience and time to wait the long q’s. The biggest thing about solo shuffle is that healing is actually punishment. It literally feel horrible. I consistently leave the game because the experience is so bad. Only to come back a few months later because I’ve been addicted to the game since I was a kid lmao
Vin, did you see how they tried to fix queues in PvP during transition from DF season 4 to TWW season 1. the queues overall got smaller, based on solo shuffle. outside what they did in DF, like incentivizing healers with more conquest and etc. So let me tell you, because you play at such high MMR that you probably didnt notice what happen. it's only noticeable if you play mid. So in DF, when arena started, you would generally withing first 20 sec find a window to use your 3 min CD, so it's up one more time during the fight. first 2 minutes, nothing really happened, it's when major CDs (2 min+) came back 2nd time, is when the kill is secured. so average fight was about 4 min, so for lobby on average lasted 24 minutes. in TWW, if you noticed, if you use your 3 min cd right away, out of the gates, you never getting it back, like fight will end before 3 min cds come back, and 2 min cds, it's about 50/50 chance they come back. also securing the kill early on became a possibility. they sped up the SS lobby games, but ramping up dumpening faster and giving people a bit more damage. this also led to healers like resto druid who have no cacoon or PS, to just fall off meta badly. in 1800 bracket whole DF, ss queues on dps were about 20-30 minutes, now they are 11-15 mins. Also, before TWW, after few weeks into season, you'd never see glads in 1600-1800 mmr games. blizzard expanded consideration of MMR in matchmaking, letting higher rated players, like 2.4k and etc, to match into 1800 lobbies. this also led to decreasing queue times at higher rating, so instead of waiting a hour, you now wait 45 minutes. So instead of attracting PVEer by giving mythic track loot and etc, making rewards more attainable, they literally fucked every casual and mid player to make queues few minutes less. people couldnt get rewards before, still cant get it and they just quit.
It's not even rocket science. These are basic, fundamental ideas. They don't do this for a reason, and I think Blizzard is still struggling with retaining retaining ideals within WoW
I honestly just feel like people got too used to M+ being too easy. When it started in Legion it was quite challenging at reasonably high levels. Granted, addition of newer bigger affixes increased the difficulty, but the process feels very similar and the results are too. People are just mad they can't do 20s and 30s in season 1 gear. lol. My biggest complaint in pvp is still how thin the queues are and with Plunderstorm on the way back, I don't see that improving any time soon.
I agree with the way keys progress. i got the same 3 dungeons up thru +6 and I got a +7 i'd never done and didnt feel right trying to put a group together to do it.
I've definitely been saying for a while that you don't want to just incentivize people to play a role you have to make it so they actually want to play it.
Reason for keys depleting is just so the game content last longer meaning, you have to waste more time gearing for raiding so that you don't finish up all the content before it is planned. This is called Planned obsolescence, Apple does it, car company does it, video card manufacturers does it, and also software developers does it as well. Simply they don't have enough resources to create content faster than the pace that players would like to consume them.
All of these problems, both PVE and PVP revolve around the fact that people are trying to play an MMO as a solo player game. The foundation of an MMO is community and I would say that maybe that moment in gaming has passed, except we saw its return in classic.
what’s the difference between key depletion and losing arena rating when losing? are we saying we shouldn’t lose arena rating when we lose games as well? Playing devils advocate here
I just unsubscribed yesterday. I took 2 weeks off hoping it would be better when I came back. Played 2 days and unsubed. Rbgs are dead and rbg blitz has long que times. If you don't play disc as a healer you're pretty worthless. And every 2s games are nothing but fetal druids or fury war. I have never seen life cocoon one min into a game last maybe 1 sec with fury war burst. It's Absolutely ridiculous dmg. Feral is worse. All other classes are worthless. GG blizz!
Just make everything the same tier and make it somewhat difficult. People will overcome the inconvenience for the reward, and as long as the reward is worthwhile people will commit the time.
Holding the aggro is the problem because most of the people are watching MDI but none of them realise that in MDI every DPS gives to Tank 2-5 sec to set up pull and build up aggro. Also, a lot of people don’t realise how impactful their death is because they didn’t use defensive. Let me explain. Every tank have a route, in that route he knows how much will he pull and therefor defensive CD’s are in sync with route. Now if you die as DPS, just for example in first pull in GB and fight goes on too long, tank needs to use his major defensive that he planned to have in next 3-4 pack pull, now all of a sudden tank does not have that CD and he needs to split pull, but from some reason you are mad because tank is “pussy”. It’s stressful as hall, but no one realise that until they try to tank. Question for DPS player, is it better to have huge pull well prepared and grouped with 5 sec delay on opener or mobs running around and you started your DMG ASAP?
M+ 2-5 shld drop the best crests, everything past that shld b skill based in full gear which makes it easier to start pushing and those that dont wana push can max out ilvl in m+ 2-5 now everyone is happy, ppl that wana push still get to push, ppl that wana max gear and do something else, get to, and now ppl doing higher keys are only ppl that like pushing keys, not ppl just trying to get their vault/gear
Blizzard does not care about PvPers. We're on a near decade-old honor system that offers the worst rewards for time spent I've likely ever seen in a game. It has a massively flawed ranking system that Blizzard just artificially band-aid fixes instead of gutting it with a redux, we get zero content outside of mass recycled maps, a BG every few xpacs, a new arena (this is not content), and you have a system in place that doesn't actually incentivize players to queue until the final weeks. Classes are left unbalanced for weeks to months at a time, there is no communication to the player base addressing issues or concerns, when they nerf due to PvE issues they just blanket nerf not checking to see if said spec(s) were under/overperforming when they have the tech and ability to nerf/buff separately. This isn't even about "not caring" anymore -- it's a blanket statement of full neglect.
Spot on man the only thing I would add from a personal perspective is that I genuinely detest how the new damage profiles are. Some of the classes are just unfun to play now because of how much they’ve changed.
Spot on. Blizzard just doesn’t give a fuck to DO better because they’re still rolling in dough.
I hit 1800 then logged out till the last two weeks of the season… 😢
Any why would they? To fix the problems with pvp, it would take a Herculean effort and a massive amount of money to fix a system that very few people care about, nobody plays it, so it shouldn’t take up any resources, pvp players feel disenfranchised because they are, and it’s not going to change. The game was never about pvp in the first place, and it was always just sort of a mini game.
@@aidanproy1484 So small-minded. This happens when you regurgitate the "majority's" opinion attempting to look informed. WoW is a sub-based game -- why wouldn't want literally all facets of 'your' game to be premium quality? Is it acceptable to not dedicate "resources" to a player base that pays for their sub just like everyone else? If PvP was fun, had regular content drops, was balanced, and found its groove with replayability -- the result would be massive; you'd have people returning to the game and have the secret ingredient: new players actually sticking around and hopefully a reason for PvEers to step in. Defend them all you want, but just look at how putting all their eggs in one basket looks when they can't even get M+ right. Ven is right about it affecting everyone, but you can't call WoW a good game when it willingly accepts parts of its game being on fire. That's not okay. Ever.
Blizzard makes an ungodly amount of money off this game there’s zero excuse for anything quite frankly
💯
Selling mounts in the game store is easier than balancing the game. Why would they bother when they can make all the money?
Untill the player numbers drastically lower they will not learn. But yet again let's just release earlier versions of the game.when the game was actually good over and over without putting any effort into making something and make billions. Genius marketing model. We're the idiots for falling for it 😂
@ThyFleshConsumed Exactly, I'll laugh they come out with the brutosaur on a 12 month subscription bundle lol. 🤣
Tbf they can keep feeding you lot shit and you all lap it up every time. Why put effort into the game when they get all their money off of a store mount lol
Pvp is so dead, we got an ex-awc,r1 streamer watching an argument for m+ improvement.
and a comment from Xraid, which I loved. Seriously, good comment.
it's actually pretty fucking funny if you say it loud lmaoooo
Lmao
The game is way too competitive. Both in terms of gearing and skill. This goes for both PvP and PvE. No one is truly playing for fun anymore.
This is pretty true. If you eliminated gear score, I honestly don’t know what would happen to the game.
Comments like this are everywhere and I want you to realize they make no sense. They're all built on top of one assumption, that playing competitively is not fun. Do you think that is an universal objective truth?
What if being competitive is fun to some players? Have you considered that? If you had, you wouldn't post this comment, neither would the other thousands who posted the same comment for decades.
I only play for fun! Nothing serious about a video game! I don’t care about BIS gear or being raider io ranked! I play with my friends and we have all types of fun! If you don’t have fun that’s on you chasing to be elite just play the game and have fun for what it is!
When you play against other players, the point is to be competitive. Also, gearing has never been easyer in PvP. The problem is the complexity of all classes.
Most subbed players don't give a fuck about consistent mythic+ and pvp that play the game. It's a hard pill to swallow for lots of people, but this is the reality of it. Those communities that do are the ones not having fun anymore.
When we say tank/healer have more to do in dungeon it's not referring to some loose category like "holding threat". it means that my Ppal have 4 short duration buff to keep up for the entire 30 minute dungeon otherwise I fall short of block cap and die. If I don't farm enough CDR fast enough, my defensive CD won't be up in time for the next tank buster and I die. When the tank die the group die, and the key is over.
If my disc priest don't farm enough CDR and is 3 second late on shadowfiend, I do half the healing during the boss burst damage and the group die. If I'm 0,5 late on mind blast mid-ramp I do half the healing and the group die.
a DPS can simply ask to hold off lust for another 10 second if he need more time for his CD to come back and that's it.
The complains come from how unforgiving tanking/healing key is... DPS'ing key feel like a game. Tanking/healing feel like a job.
I happily tank dungeon and raid finder. It's fun. I happily heal dungeon and raid finder it's fun. I used prot on some delves when I not surviving.
Tank a mythic? You must know everything as tank. You run the whole dungeon. It requires research. I had people shouting / mashing their keyboards at me blaming me for every death because I 'didnt hold agro' and 'stood out of melee range of the boss' so they died. I have flying shields everywhere, and show everyone where im standing with consecration. But it's the tanks fault that a dps pulls or attacks mobe I'm not attacking 😂. So now I'm a basic retadin. Go in, top dps meter and chill. I still don't know all the boss mechanics most of them... I only subbed a month ago... and I'm pleased to say I levelled 5 80s. Earned 150k gold, got my main to ilvl 613, got 50 new mounts, including Siesbarg and Lucid Nightmare among others and I'll resub again in another 5 years.
Having played on/off since Vanilla and having not played since Legion... Nobody talks, there's no adventure, there's no fun group content, there's no interaction, it's just headbutt keyboard and follow arrows in a rush to meet the target. They could make it so much more chill and fun.
@@Robert-l6g8i"no adventure" so real 😢
It's the hamster wheel. Every expansion we get new content that's fun to see and explore but then it quickly goes stale. Mythics are still the same group size, same mechanics, same carrot vs the stick. You work for the same rating you had before. But finding groups is a huge pain because unless you are a healer or tank, it's a 30min to 2hr gamble to even get invited.
Then the season ends and it's the hamster wheel all over again with the only difference being you are doing in different dungeons. PvP is the same. One new pvp battle but the rest are exactly the same. Same group size, same thing all over again.
Rating really doesn't mean much unless you are in the top 5%. Then you realize you are the hampster for all the effort you put in, you are in the same spot you were 10 years ago.
you nailed it
Yep it's boring as fook
There's no more player progression. The whole game is to get to end game and do end game content. Different expansions, same stuff. Gets boring.
I am a healer. I played 1000+ rounds this season and my mmr has been stuck at 2100 since before the "MMR Injection". I stopped queueing 2 weeks ago and am just way happier now.
Healing is unpleasant because my job is keeping people alive, but a lot of that decision making is in their hands, but I'm the one that gets flamed.
Everyone is frustrated by not being able to progress their characters this season, and too many people are willing to take that frustration out on each other.
I would queue again if I believed I actually had a chance to push 2400. Without out that there's nothing else for me in shuffle.
If I could hit 2400 I would be working on healer alts and pushing them as well.
I did 2400 with holy priest cause that’s the class I like, but that was after 1500 games I can tell you is not worth it. Low CR players in greens joining lobby making you go 3/3 or one bad player losing all 6 games you end up in the same spot.
I tried starting to heal and didn't even try till I had full conquest. Each battle is like a freakin panic attack yet, yeah, im the one who gets raged on if they die when they zug in behind a pillar. It's rough but ill probly just keep struggling on lol
@@Fr33manoh but your talking about pve.
Just download imorph, forged gladiators fel bat right away :)
@@Fr33man ??????
95,2% of players doesn't PvP because the gameplay is shit. Rewards or rank overhaul wont change a thing.
Who wants to play when every class has 5 micro-cc's, 3 knockbacks, a tp, infinite mobility while all they do is spamming an AoE rotation and you need a weakaura for every 500 CD's that exist.
Class identity doesn't exist in the game anymore like it used to, everyone has everything thanks to m+. Every damage button has a built in AoE from a passive in the tree and everyone is as fast as a lamborghini nowdays.
People are not playing because the gameplay isn't fun, if it was fun people would be playing now. Other games have active players because their game is fun to play.
I disagree heartily. Wow gameplay is in one of its better stages right now, I'm actually enjoying playing a lot. But the systems and reward structures are just from a different time.
YES ! 100% Agree
Where do you people get this? Pvp is huge in this game when the game doesnt suck. tich, sargeras, a52, kz, emerald dream, etc are all high/full servers and almost entirely pvp players.
No one is hardly playing the game at all anymore is the problem. m+ design ruined the game.
This is 100% spot on and correct. The class design is horribly homogenized. There is no class identity or differentiation.
It’s okay if one class has shit AoE but great ST or one spec has incredible utility that can win matches or stop goes but isn’t the best at ST burst.
Turning the game into Fortnite where we all play the same with minor changes depending on our gun is boring and other games (shooters) offer that already
@@Cashinn_Outt1754 We need classes to be more unique again 🙏🏼 also less Aoe and mobility
Queue times in PVP are terrible. I only have 1-2 hours to play at night, and every queue takes 15-20 minutes of waiting. Then horde loses the 80% of battlegrounds... such a waste of time.
Alliance loses all the time as well. It’s not really a horde or alliance thing… it’s a matchmaking and luck thing. Most winning games are stomps. Hardly ever a balanced game with a close win or loss.
play classic sod as horde then you win 90%
@@SIIKAP1nah sorry man but alliance win 70-80% of the time I play ALOT of BGs on both factions and horde are honestly so bad you just get quick ques is the only up side
And don't forget that the conquest set grind takes WAY too much fuckin time per character, not everyone enjoys how toxic rating grinds are so you grind regular casual modes and it'll take Hella long to get decent gear that isn't honor
@@danielsmith2483 well, so do I. And winning or losing is a gamble every game. Some days you win a lot, some days you lose a lot. It doesn’t matter the faction, as I play both as well. If I keep losing on alliance, i’ll go to horde, thinking we’ll win, but nope. And before anyone gets any bright ideas, i’m duelist, which isn’t glad or anything, but it’s better than most people you play with in BGs.
Core of the problem is, we are addicted, we invested 10-20 years in this game, and its hard to stop, as its with any addiction. Wast majority of player base is for sure 30+ years old. and we cant get similar dopamine hit from any other game, like we do from wow. and reality is, wow is mediocre for last 8 years. If only we stoped playing, and hit their wallet, they would do something. but we dont so here we are
Is it even possible to be addicted to retail wow currently ? Idk man.
@@Laito21 yes, personally when i get a good pvp game i literally cannot requeue fast enough, no other game does that for me
@@Laito21 Yeah, because junkies only use high quality drug right? Well, they don't, they use bad quality drugs, mixed with crap, because they have nothing else.
"investing" in this game is impossible when everything resets every 6months. I logged on to my mage with over 100days played and I literally have nothing to show for this collosal waste of time except for a bunch of lame mounts. I can play eve online and quit for a couple years and all the assets acquired stay relevant when I come back. Way more respect for your time in that game
I just came back after a 15 year layoff from WoW for TWW, I play 1 or 2 days/week, I'm definitely not addicted and I still think the endgame content progression system sucks. I liked how raiding was when I played in WoTLK, but wish there was a LFG system like there is now and I didn't have to rely on guilds or spamming general chat in order to pug. Mythic and gear upgrading/crests are so stupid and confusing.
He said no other part of wow punishes you and sets you back, but in PvP you actually lose rating. No matter what you do, you will never lose rating in keys. Your key might go down one but you still have the same rating and you can always work that rating up eventually.
Playing wow whitout streamers. TH-cam. Social media . Was something else.
100% - that’s unfortunately something people today just don’t understand. They’ve practically stopped thinking for themselves. There always has to be some content creator out there with an answer. For a short while, it was fine - TH-cam was full of people who actually helped. But content creators like him are just scum who make a living off of this, and, like in this case, even make people feel bad about playing a game.
I quit like a year ago. My group had all of these conversations as far back as BFA. Nothing in Bel's video is new, it's the same topics we've been yelling about for multiple years/expansions.
Yep, unfortunately the only thing we can do is opt out and hope that enough other people opt out so blizzard is forced to rethink their scam... I mean design philosophy. Capitalism is a tug of war between corporations who want only profit at any cost, and consumers who SHOULD want quality and value. But if the consumers are too dumb to demand quality and value, and simply throw money at anything the corporation releases... The corporation is not going to focus on quality and value. They will simply focus on what is "good enough" to keep profits flowing.
this guy from the first video "Not to fix M+ but to embrace that is broken right now and to solve the entire thing" wtf are you sayin man
lol
Great video. I started WoW 3 months ago. I have experience in other MMOs. I, for a reason i wont get into, have had a bunch of time on my hands, and i wanted to finally try WoW. I love healing in other games, so i wanted to try most of the healers available. I got 3 healers to 70 plus..and others in the 20s and 30s. To be honest, my experience was horrible. Even after i told people i was a new player and of course a new healer. Mechanics etc are NOT the problem The players are the problem...I lost count how many people whispered me to quit or not Q. Mind you this was leveling where people learn. not end game...my final straw was being kicked from group when tank pulled 3 or 4 groups and died while i was drinking. I gave up..and just started classic...People seem very nice...well, nicer..lol. I was healin as a druid, people said classes were more important in classic..so i started a priest and pally...we'll see. anyway...CULTURE needs to change or WoW wont get new noobs like me...
Dampening is bad for the game, especially from a healer perspective. If feels bad playing arena games where my team dies to absolutely nothing (dampening) and I wasn't even CC chained as a healer, the enemy team was just spamming damage like they are in an M+. Remove dampening and maybe buff CC chains, remove micro CC, and make people relearn how to CC and interrupt healers again.
Thank you!
You where right, except the dampening. its like healers can outheal everything in battlegrounds and world pvp, because it lacks dampening. dampening is what make games end, so its not 45mins draws like back in TBC.
@@holmer1982 I've experienced what you're talking about. I've even been in some 45 min draw healer/dps 2v2 games in Wrath and Cata. I still would take dampening out. It would be a buff to double DPS 2s and would incite more double DPS games.
Dampening encourages bad gameplay, like playing defensive and waiting for it to kick in before going for a kill. I also think things will die without dampening. BG Blitz is the best PvP mode currently, and it doesn't have dampening, and I have yet to play a blitz game without any deaths on either side. Not only do players die in blitz, they die fast. As long as DPS and CC is high, things can die, even with no dampening.
@@andrewcramer thats why its good to have different game modes, because we really dont agree on best game mode. I think blitz has become the worst after it got rated. Because you have so little influence especially as a dps. If you have 1 bad or not great dps, its not that big of a deal, but if you have 1 great healer on 1 side or 1 poor at 1 side, the side with best healers will almost always win. To see a mw and disc keep everyone alive all game because every button makes ppl go to full health, is really annoying. The insane amount of defensive cd's and instant bigheals with no dampening is not great. I have seen games where only 1 side is getting kills.
@@holmer1982 Well, semi off-topic but I personally hate all of the different game modes. 5 different versions of classic, then shuffle vs real 3v3, blitz vs rbgs. The player base is way too split up.
I agree blitz isn't great in the grand scheme of WoW's pvp history, but it seems to be the most popular pvp mode right now. It might be because of MMR as well. I've been in those bad games too where one side gets farmed. Usually that team has low DPS overall or weak healing and the team is just chain dying. It happens
Some easy solutions: Remove healers and tanks from PvP unrated and rated. Put 1v1 ranked arena. Add Glad mount to EVERY rated mode. Fix MMR system like it was on the first week of TWW and leave it there (meaning a good casual player should reach 2400 rating and be able to push for glad mount. Top players must play at 3000 rating). Thats it.
Dueling queues FTW
@danielsmith2483 that would be one of the best days in life!
No lmao
Why is there no 1v1s in wow? Handling one class’s kit would be more manageable. There’s a lot of depth to be had there.
@Thunderstar4 exactly. There is no mode that you can learn your class in pvp. Only 2v2, which contains a healer 99% of the time, meaning a total different gameplay. Then we have 3v3 and 10v10+. It would be really nice to have a competitive 1v1, even if balance wouldn't be around 1v1.
They don’t care about PvP or pve when they are making millions off micro transactions. They are making more money than ever
damage down is a pretty bad idea. Because if a dps gets hit by damage.. the healer does not want the player debuffed on top of having to heal him. It's a double negative. The healer would rather the dps get hit and not also then have a weakened dps
I've been experiencing all these problems with mythic+ and I enjoy playing the game but to progress past 11s I never get invited into 12s and I have great gear and over 2700 score. On top of that I had 4 mythic track slots in my vault and got three 1handed weapons and a non upgrade this week. I am now officially playing classic and not coming back to retail.
Similar story here except i did do 12s and its still a shitshow, 1 wipe and the key is over. 11s are not good practice for 12s. ill be back for retail depending on the 11.1 patch
I crashed during a blitz game lost 300 rating, I rebooted the pc as fast as i could and relogged and had be removed with a leave ban "account wide". I was literally a game away from 1800 "nothing flash" but ever since then 1800 in blitz seems to be a dream. My conclusion is that losing 300 rating for a DC/crash with no window Eg "2min relog" since they don't fill as far as im a wear and on top of that you can reque for 30min-1hr that is far too harsh when i only get like 60-80 per "Win" and bizzard really needs too do something about that. Since then im sceard that ill dc or crash and lose another 300 so im left with "whats the point of trying too push".
I feel like i cant be the only one to have experienced this more then once
This same thing happened to me. Haven't been able to recover.
I got the original spirit of competition pet back in the early days and was so proud to rock my tabard. I really only played wow for casual bgs or world PVP but it became so unrewarding and unengaging that I haven't bought the last few expansions. Wish they could make it work
The game has been in a state of copy+paste for the last 10 years. We keep getting the same half ass game. Not even fully complete. This expansion had so many bugs that still persist to this day. There’s private servers that are better kept than retail.
I literally just commented this same thing. Since legion the game has been copy paste. I knew M+ was going to negatively effect the game from day 1.
22:38
The reason this doesn't make sense is because if you needed to do a key 10 times to learn how to do it, you would still need to do it 10 times to learn how to do it now but you get downranked every time. Would be nice to give you an option to reroll it or not at the end though.
By my side, I'd like to say that a GOOD idea to make dual system of progression :when you ll have two roles and two pers in one basket. For Example you can play dps+heal, or heal+tank while one of them would be controlled by yourself, second one by UI with your adjusted settings/macro etc. In this case pro-healers could play on dps istead have pocket healer with his own adjustments. In that case mythic could work with 3 players, who's have 6 pers under control, each player have their own two dudes under control :main+UI. The rate of received gear could be worster then for solo content, but at least that's a way to give up New players game more enjoy. Pvp is harder to adjust, but... at least it also can be reverse for dual /solo rating,. Sorry for my English)))
I haven’t played wow in a week or more. Was on a serious kick for like 10-11 months straight but I’m so stuck that I have no idea what to do. Every class at 80 and I can’t stand doing keys or raids. So I beat the game . PvP rewards too hard to get queues too long
i agree with everything you said up until the pvp rewards.. you can get full conquest in a day or two.
@ rewards as in getting to 1800. Queues are too long w ehh rewards
@@GardenisLifeYeah if you play for many hours each day. That’s not possible for many people
@@GardenisLifeconquest cap has entered the chat...
I got geared in a few days WTH u talking about. U can literally fly around for warchest and get conquest
People should stop watch Bellular. He is the doomsayer of WoW and the only content he have is talk fictional problems of WoW
Go check out his channel. What’s the ratio of 'videos that help new players get into WoW PvP' to 'videos that drive new players away because he only focuses on problems'?
Honestly, WoW has gotten so big that (unfortunately) you can survive just off negative headlines. There are plenty of people who just want to feel validated in their decision to not want to play anymore. Classic Andys, FFXIV Andys, GW2 Andys... the list goes on.
Blizzard doesn’t care period. Bots killed it for me.
It's a blizzard doesn't care about players thing. They gave up way back in the day. They are purely profit-driven and that is all.
ye because it ain't blizzard anymore, the company is called blizzard Activision Microsoft
Yes they are a public ordeal now, and unfortunately WoW is a cash-cow product, so it will continue to be abused for short term profits only.
If Blizzard listened to player feedback like GGG does with PoE 2, the whole game would be amazing. They let us down severely.
The issue is that the development teams are completely different. GGG actually plays and enjoys their game, it's a passion project. All the OG designers at Blizzard are all long gone, the people at helm now don't care or play WoW. How can a game that's 20 years old require balance patches every month? Not even micro-tuning but full on class identity reworks. It doesn't take two decades to decide what a frost mage should play like. The fact is the team doesn't know what to do so they keep shooting in the dark hoping something sticks. If that fails, monetise nostalgia while they cook up another half baked idea.
Regarding the timer depletion on death, @17:40, that mechanic was introduced because people would perform death skips. The main issue here is that you are forced into a cheesy playstyle in order to skip the hardest packs of the dungeon where maybe you didn't have shroud or mobs had true sight. Blizzard wanted to get rid of it especially when it was showcased for all to see during MDI events.
The timer penalty on death does in fact make sense, when you go back and see how the game was played without it.
IT WAS VERY CLEAR FROM BEFORE 2000's THAT MMORPGS ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE!
sure they are popular with a lot of players but TRYING TO MAKE THEM FOR EVERYONE INCLUDING THE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT ENJOY CHALLENGE, PROGRESSION, RPGS or GROUP PLAY is the reaason why the game is in a horrible state. Terrible solutionism is only a result of trying to fix the game for everyone for all demands. You cant make it harder and easier at thesame time, You cant have long and rewarding progression journey of leveling and put people in the end game within aa week! THESE ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE!
back in the days we had no addons no data to flex about other than a dummy and being invited to a group where you showcase your dps and rotation and get accepted :)
BEST DAYS
I'm a healer in PVE and this is the worst thing to play to try to have fun. It's either you push keys and you have so much to do, fill with dps abilities when you can, stun, interrupt, call for mecanics. If people play well your healing is pretty fine, but if you're in a group were they fuck up every pull you struggle as hell or they get one shoted and you get blames. Second option you just farm lower content, and it's boring because you just spam one DPS ability to be 1/10th of a real dps which is lets face it pretty much useless. Since there is nothing to heal or nothing really dangerous for your group so you are sleeping.
I wish i could do real damage like tanks and feel useful in other way than feeling that i have to fill a position in a group where if people play well you are useless.
I mean look at Zmok doing +16 without a healer. It says it all. And yet i'm there struggling in +12 because people don't know when to use defensive or keep toping the avoidable damage chart.
One of the issues is that like how you alluded to, healers have way more on their shoulders. Casual players don't want to stress out.
Idk man bro lost me when said “no other mode in the game punishes you as much a key depletion” like what does he mean? I’ve lost 400 rating healing shuffles cause donkeys can’t use a parry into a meta pop.
I cannot staaaaaaand Belulars manerisms and fake delivery.
I think what one of the streamers that were watching your video was referring to was kind of how when you complete a key as somebody who joins a group of the same level that your current key is or higher you have the option of changing it. That would be an option if you have banged your head against the wall on a key for three or 45 runsmaybe you no longer want to try that key and you wanna try a different key at the same level, so at the end of the run, you should have the option to say hey let me switch my key and this way you get the best of both worlds. You can either continue trying your key because you don’t have to click that option or if you’re tired of trying with little success, you have the option to move onto another one.
IMO the biggest problem is how many keybinds and buttons you have to have to play at the best the class offers was a manage enthusiast and then switched to BM Hunter in dragon flight and quit shortly after that
9:15 I have been saying this for a few months now.
I also commented under the PoddyC that PvP has similar problems with defenses and dmg spikes.
Glad that the awareness of these problems are becoming mainstream.
I am a vet healer that played from vanilla to Cata as a healer and then switched to dps as main. I tried healing again each new addon, but either quit the game or sticked to dps. The main reason - healing became a rotational button smashing similar to DPS, but more complicated and sweaty. Instead of slower, strategic resource management gameplay it was some time ago.
The reason there are low amounts of healers in PvP and the same applies to Mythic + is because those roles are actually very stressful, very tedious and at times enraging to play. No DPS in the world gets blamed when they mess up their burst in PvP - but if a healer messes up their healing, it's a lost round. Responsibility is huge and the number one thing that healers in PvP complain about is the dreaded 3-3 - yes, some DPS slacked, or whatever is the reason - even if all DPS are playing good, you're still more likely to go 3-3 than anything else because healers, USUALLY, have no agency to impact the games (Blizzard wanted to fix this by adding damage to healers, healers want to heal, not do damage). That is the real reason why people don't like healing. At least, not in solo shuffle.
Hell, at this point, make a 4v4 bracket with 1 healer, just tone the damage down so that a healer can actually heal through that and see where it goes. That's 2 more DPS players per game.
Mythic+ tanking and healing is just horrendous at this point. Tanks were nerfed to oblivion (any 10 key is a sweatfest EVERY trash pull), Healers are constantly healing 25%>100% - 33%>100% on tanks who are rotating their cooldowns to the best of their ability.
They need to mostly revert the tanking nerfs that happened at the start but not making them into absolute immortal gods. You want people to play the least-played roles, they are least-played roles for a reason, there is 0 incentive to make those roles even harder or more tedious to play.
I'm having more fun than ever in both PvE and PvP, what is wrong with you people?
Bellular can not be trusted.
No content creator is trustworthy. People make their money with headlines. And with the way the world is right now, you make more money with negative headlines. Look at his videos. In how many of them does he actually help or include new players in WoW-PvP?
Retail gets really jarring when you play classic for a bit. Obviously there are a ton of QoL improvements, but there are a ton of things that simply feel worse
For once I don't mind the balance of pvp right now. It is the total lack of anything fun outside of instanced pvp. All these new zones but no pvp events or world quests outside of weekly sparks. It isn't that complicated to create some dynamic pvp events that run on a timer that are actually fun-centric with cool rewards. Soloqueue pvp has its flaws but the trade off is not having to sit around waiting for a group to form longer than 10-15 minutes, and it is relatively stable queue times. Clone the Soloqueue system for pve and give it a rating and be done with it. That's what Bliz will end up doing anyway. Rewards for pvp are abysmal. A total overhaul of pvp is needed in terms of fresh content. Releasing a new arena or bg map is not anywhere close to enough. New Soloqueue mount for 50 wins above 2400. New arenas and bgs and new game modes would be a solid start.
This is why i play classic, at least the pvp makes sense. Each class has a perk that you could want. In retail you can play any class and itll have anything you need.
I was a long time healer and a long time pvper. I stopped playing pvp, just felt stuck and never progressed, so I stopped. I use to be a 2k+ player that was stuck in 1500 to 1600 solo.
I then went to pve as a healer, did that for awhile and had fun. Then stopped healing there, annoying how much more responsibility you have compared to dps or even a tank (I'm tanking now 2k+ IO on all tanks).
Healers have far too much they are responsible for. DPS doesn't care if they take extra damage, tanks don't care if they take extra damage, the mindset is always the healer will take care of it or THEY suck.
I don't have any intention of going back to pvp unless there is a 100% rework. Instead of giving it a try again I just go and download / play a different game.
I'm not having fun in either pve or pvp, wow used to be chill and relaxing to play. Now it's 10k apm button mashing in every type of content. Too much ability clutter (There's no way to fit all abilities without using macros and alot extra quickbars, 12 button mouse etc).
They even gutted the only spec I like, resto druid through the floor. Healing sux so hard now, RIP healing kitty :(
💯 way too much button bloat. Too fast-paced & complicated. No wonder it’s so hard to attract & retain new players in pvp.
Skill issue
This brings me back to visions, and how Blizz had a GREAT thing going on with them. They should've built on visions from BFA and made it so you can earn endgame gear from it.
Basically don´t force players to do something they don´t wanna do. Let players choose how they wanna gear up.
I had fun in solo rbgs and got 2400 that way at the beginning of the season, despite it taking like 100 matches due to the rating gain cap.
Blizzard will never give arena the support it deserves, so I only play it when dps queues aren’t 30 minutes long
Lol arena is the only PvP that blizz balances the game around wich has contributed to PvP being shit
People get 6M+ gear from delves, but then are forced to do M+ for better upgrades.
Proper solution: Make delve gear scale to max ilvl, even if it means making them super hard.
Blizzard's solution: Make delve gear garbage so nobody plays them.
Mark my words-they WILL do it this way.
Ya surprised they haven't nerfed delves already lol...right now you more gold from time walking dungeons than mythic dungeons.. its like they want to make it a miserable experience.
I think a better solution would be dropping at veteran or champion at most, and add ilvl scaling when doing world\delve content.
Two days ago I did a Blitz where a player on my team was AFK from the beginning and got kicked from the match. Down a player we obviously lost pretty quickly. I lost 14 points for that match. Later that day I had a match where my team started with 7 people and one person actually left as well, so we got stomped down 6-8. I lost 15 points for that match. I was done with rated PVP after that day and haven't queued since. So little effort goes into PVP on Blizzard's part that it's not worth continuing to play. Just get your personal goal like mount or mog and then quit.
This is my first expansion ever doing Tank warrior and although it started off absolutely rough I kind of like the intense gameplay and mapping routes but unlike most pugs I'm usually in comms with my healer which is like almost a requirement. I'd say maybe dial it back from 10 to like 8.
I quit healing solo shuffle cause the way the rating works. You go 3-3 cause you have a bad dps and gain nothing. I'm a glad experienced healer. Not even gold would get me healing again.
is he still salty aboud his addon?
I don’t think that making people climb through each key level is necessary. Assuming you need 30 minutes to complete a dungeon, 8 total dungeons, and a key goal of 10s across the board, that would take 2400 minutes, or 40 hours. That doesn’t include queue times, and doesn’t allow for a single failed key.
Challenge mode: gold itemisation was the best. If they could make gear scale up towars the content where it was looted but not BiS for others, that would fix the gearing problem.
I remember gearing out from heroics just to get the best stats (i can't remember if sockets), just to go and try over and over some challenge mode: golds, and it was hell of fun. If we could add an iteration of this system to modern WoW, it would help people to play whatever they like, but not overperforming for other kinds of content, forcing a given player to actual play the game and progress through every content:
If you are a peak player in arena, you can get your gear to the "pre-BiS" gear in other forms of content (let's say max hero gear for every content out of arena).
If you are a peak player in M+, you can get your gear to the "pre-BiS" gear in other forms of content (let's say max hero gear for every content out of M+).
If you are a peak player in delves, you can get your gear to the "pre-BiS" gear in other forms of content (let's say max hero gear for every content out of delves).
Mythic raiding should still be what it is, just because it is "hard" and probably, WoW's essence.
Personally, I would like to see a WoW season where item level would be "always blue", but with alot of borrowed power (sockets, procs, tier bonuses...), with ilvl scaling in a given content; if you progress higher, you get better rewards that will be useful in that given content, but trivial compared to other items in other content. That would give not raiding PvEers an easy way to start up gearing fresh characters, with a feeling of progression, and also, not allowing boosteds to get BiS in Mythic or whatever other content, to jump and be BiS in every other content.
You need to disconnect from WoW for an extended period of time and play other games, it's like a drug and you won't truly understand until you're on the other side.
played other games, nothing else compares to or will ever compare to wow arena pvp sadly
13:41 I'm sorry, but who is inviting non-rated players who have semi-decent gear into their +6s and expect it to go well? You only do that in +2 and only because nobody runs m0 so there's no reasonably lower key to run below that. At +6 I'd only invite low rated players if they have one of two things: a ++ in that dungeon at +4 level or +++ in any other dungeon, or if they have a main linked to that character which has strong rating.
The fact this is happening is such a foreign concept to me and completely counter to my general experience of being denied for any key level I haven't done at a level above it.
I agree i don't play mythic as ques of a night time take ages to get a group together so i do delves but hit the point that i get nothing from them. So hit the point that i do my vaults and then move on to the next alt.
I like healing but never got into PVP and never found anyone in game to have the time to do pvp games so i can learn how to heal in pvp tactics. Maybe Blizzard need to do a coaching pvp for Healers and Tanks bit like the follower dungeons.
Greetings Venruki, the truth is that the problem with WoW is Blizzard, but currently there are many better and free games to play, think about it, people are paying to not have fun, there is not much to understand why people do not play, but it is a shame because the gameplay in general shows that there is no clear idea of Blizzard, it seems that they do not know their own game, that is the feeling that it gives about the developers, there are many things that are not right in the game.The game needs people, that's the problem with the game, nobody wants to play a game that's bad, and besides you have to pay, even though I like wow, that's the reality from an objective point of view.
If solo-Q M+ is implemented, it for sure needs a Yelp! Review type system and a way to weight it into group compositions. I dont wanna solo-Q into a dungeon on my mage with a Brewmaster who cant stay alive or an hpriest that cant make aoe healing checks.
Theres exceptional players of every spec, but unless they undo tank nerfs and re-buff aoe healing spells to make these rolls much easier, I'm likely to desert my soloQ dungeons too.
i just realized what is going on. its like learning piano, practice all the time and you will be successful. this is not a game you can play 20 minutes between family time and be successful.
All they care about is money boys.
Working up in M+ , advance to +3 by completing +2, u leave the key like an a$$hole, u lose 2 ranks in progress, if something goes poop, set a vote to abandon key without punishment or restart.
Blizzard does not care about PVPers, or Mythic+ enjoyers. They've always only cared about the dang raids and it's just become more obvious this season.
Yep because most people subbing to the game don't give a fuck about it. How is anyone surprised by this?
I feel like ESO solved a lot of these issues in their game. In ESO, the tank is really only responsible for holding threat on the boss/lieutenant in a pack. The minions often fixate on other members of the party and it is their responsibility to either CC or kill them. This spreads the responsibility around and encourages players to use their defensive abilities naturally. I think this would help PvP as well because class design could focus less on cleaving and AoE micro CCs.
Long Video response dissertation incoming:
With regards to healers in PvP, especially Solo Shuffle, I am still firmly resolved that it is rating that is the problem. I dont care about gold. I think more people would be inclined to heal if the rating was adjusted for healers specifically. I dont care if they receive 100 points for a 3/3 lobby. I dont care if they get 25 points more rating per win than a DPS. Personally, I was hoping Solo Shuffle would be where people were cutting their teeth in competitive arena. However, it is unfortunate that it has become the default and murdered 2v2 and 3v3 brackets. This is understandable when one considers the alternative is grabbing a random from LFG (really no better than Solo Shuffle match making process) and then slowly by surely grinding your way up a bracket 15 points per win at a time. Instead, just Q solo shuffle, get a favorable lobby and have 2k plus MMR off your first 6/0 and gain hundreds of rating. Wash rinse repeat 5 times 1800 MoG done. I do think bliz could fix that by adjusting rating gains in those brackets to make them more appealing like if I beat a 1900 rated team in my first match, let me get my 300+ rating gain man. This huge jump should keep happening till my Rating is even with the teams Im competing against. Not these silly 18 and 20 point incremental changes. At a minimum rating should be adjusted massively in 2v2 and 3v3 based on participation in those brackets and while we may not have the exact number Bliz certainly does and there is no excuse for ignoring this glaring problem which has caused 75% of my friends list (all PvPers) to cancel their subs already when they were really excited about TWW.
His assertion around 18:27 that no other area of the game sets punishes you by setting your progress back is reflective of someone with limited PvP experience or willfull blindness. I have seen even certain (ahem clears throat) blizcon Champions get set back 100+ rating and be hard stuck at the new lower rating in a bad Q session in PvP. It is my understanding that Mythic+ players do not lose rating for failure. I am not saying they should have their keys bricked I am just pointing out the game does take away players progress for failure in other areas of the game.
Also, not a hill I want to die on because I have extremely limited Mythic+ experience (only when forced by my brother) but Tanks do still have to deal with threat issues not as much in experienced groups but as this video points out some people are coming directly from delves into Mythic+. I have seen a mage go brazy on AoE when the tank hss barely initiated the pull, and the mobs responded accordingly.
Final side note the chat participant that said his opinions should carry little value because he is barely an ahead of the curve player IS THE PROBLEM. Thanks for the video Champ.🫡
How many people do you put your trust in in life, and their career is the thing you trust them to be good at.
Doctors
School Teachers
Bus Drivers
Airline Pilots
ect.
There are MANY people that work in these industries that chose to do it primarily because the pay is good, but you still get the surgery all the same.
Reward the Tanks and Healers.
Bro u need to ask Blizzard to get rid of every addon that makes screen look like a hacking battle ground...It's so annoying to watch....It passively makes the players themselves get tired....They don't even realise it themselves....PvP will be harder at start bt eventually players will get used to it!!
pvp so dead that the bellular genre of doomposting is more lucrative
The problem with a solo que in mythic+ is that the people that pay to be carried would time 10s and then que in.
Making +2-10 queued, and leaving 11+ in the group finder is the perfect solution imo.
Edit: Also the primary counter argument to removing depletion (which I agree with) is that it would incentivize toxic behavior like doing crazy pulls early in the dungeon to save time, and chain-resetting until it works. However, this could be fixed by just adding "charges" to keystones (e.g. you can fail it X number of times before it depletes). Additionally, the aforementioned toxic behavior only matters for title keys, so maybe anything below a +10 should just not deplete, and only 11+ have the possibility to deplete after X failures.
There are so many solutions to some of these problems, but Blizzard just doubles down constantly on punishing people and wasting their time via overly aggressive systems. Kiss/Curse mechanics are a great way to incentivize behavior, but I also think Blizzard relies too heavily on the Curse mechanics. Give people bonuses for correctly doing mechanics, don't punish them for failing. It's the exact same result, by psychologically feels much better.
I am wondering if a personal loot system ilvl etc. based off players performance in any group or solo content could help the game. The better you do by interupting, dodging mechanics and or pumping big numbers etc.
Over the past few years, I feel like every game has shifted over for casual players to try and increase their player base, which in turn ruins the game for the true fans. You either get hand held through all the content, or spawn with everything pretty much gifted to you on a platter without doing anything
At the end of a run, allow each player to give out a single thumbs up to another player. Have this factor into that player's rating score. Make it a scoreboard with unlocks.
Why cant once you complete all portals at level 10 you can get an achievement that grants an omni keystone and then you can slam in any key in any dungeon at any level.
i wait 10 minutes for a battleground just to get destroyed from the enemy group and find out after 20 seconds that we will lose the bg.... everyone leaves the bg... log in another char....repeat....and sometimes we will do this to the enemy...sometimes a whole day without a good battleground... THE BURST DMG IN TWW IST JUST STUPID
so much crying jeez
Are there any videos of beluwhine actually doing mythic plus?
The only way to save PvP in retail is to simplify the abilities used. Each class needs 8-10 abilities for it to be considered a serious e-sport. It would not be difficult for the PvE version of the game to separate from the PvP version in terms of abilities and the values of those abilities.
Nah even for pvp, Whats shit about pvp is that you have to basically spec into every extra defensive and cc skill, they need to just drop the amount of abilities in the game by half, that'll make balancing easier and make pvp and pve less of a headache, my unholy dk has 3 full bars of abilities including consumable like healthstones and health pots and it still fights at a lower level than things like bm hunters, the game rn has too much bloat for some classes and too little for others, they need to keep all classes at like 15abilities max imo
I heal for the fast Q’s. I’d love to dps but I have no patience and time to wait the long q’s. The biggest thing about solo shuffle is that healing is actually punishment. It literally feel horrible. I consistently leave the game because the experience is so bad. Only to come back a few months later because I’ve been addicted to the game since I was a kid lmao
Vin, did you see how they tried to fix queues in PvP during transition from DF season 4 to TWW season 1. the queues overall got smaller, based on solo shuffle. outside what they did in DF, like incentivizing healers with more conquest and etc. So let me tell you, because you play at such high MMR that you probably didnt notice what happen. it's only noticeable if you play mid. So in DF, when arena started, you would generally withing first 20 sec find a window to use your 3 min CD, so it's up one more time during the fight. first 2 minutes, nothing really happened, it's when major CDs (2 min+) came back 2nd time, is when the kill is secured. so average fight was about 4 min, so for lobby on average lasted 24 minutes. in TWW, if you noticed, if you use your 3 min cd right away, out of the gates, you never getting it back, like fight will end before 3 min cds come back, and 2 min cds, it's about 50/50 chance they come back. also securing the kill early on became a possibility. they sped up the SS lobby games, but ramping up dumpening faster and giving people a bit more damage. this also led to healers like resto druid who have no cacoon or PS, to just fall off meta badly. in 1800 bracket whole DF, ss queues on dps were about 20-30 minutes, now they are 11-15 mins. Also, before TWW, after few weeks into season, you'd never see glads in 1600-1800 mmr games. blizzard expanded consideration of MMR in matchmaking, letting higher rated players, like 2.4k and etc, to match into 1800 lobbies. this also led to decreasing queue times at higher rating, so instead of waiting a hour, you now wait 45 minutes. So instead of attracting PVEer by giving mythic track loot and etc, making rewards more attainable, they literally fucked every casual and mid player to make queues few minutes less. people couldnt get rewards before, still cant get it and they just quit.
It's not even rocket science. These are basic, fundamental ideas. They don't do this for a reason, and I think Blizzard is still struggling with retaining retaining ideals within WoW
I honestly just feel like people got too used to M+ being too easy. When it started in Legion it was quite challenging at reasonably high levels. Granted, addition of newer bigger affixes increased the difficulty, but the process feels very similar and the results are too. People are just mad they can't do 20s and 30s in season 1 gear. lol.
My biggest complaint in pvp is still how thin the queues are and with Plunderstorm on the way back, I don't see that improving any time soon.
I agree with the way keys progress. i got the same 3 dungeons up thru +6 and I got a +7 i'd never done and didnt feel right trying to put a group together to do it.
I've definitely been saying for a while that you don't want to just incentivize people to play a role you have to make it so they actually want to play it.
Reason for keys depleting is just so the game content last longer meaning, you have to waste more time gearing for raiding so that you don't finish up all the content before it is planned. This is called Planned obsolescence, Apple does it, car company does it, video card manufacturers does it, and also software developers does it as well.
Simply they don't have enough resources to create content faster than the pace that players would like to consume them.
All of these problems, both PVE and PVP revolve around the fact that people are trying to play an MMO as a solo player game. The foundation of an MMO is community and I would say that maybe that moment in gaming has passed, except we saw its return in classic.
what’s the difference between key depletion and losing arena rating when losing? are we saying we shouldn’t lose arena rating when we lose games as well? Playing devils advocate here
Very good video man it's rare these days to be truly interested ty
I just unsubscribed yesterday. I took 2 weeks off hoping it would be better when I came back. Played 2 days and unsubed. Rbgs are dead and rbg blitz has long que times. If you don't play disc as a healer you're pretty worthless. And every 2s games are nothing but fetal druids or fury war. I have never seen life cocoon one min into a game last maybe 1 sec with fury war burst. It's Absolutely ridiculous dmg. Feral is worse. All other classes are worthless. GG blizz!
Just make everything the same tier and make it somewhat difficult. People will overcome the inconvenience for the reward, and as long as the reward is worthwhile people will commit the time.
Turned off when he said bellular lmao
if they dont time a key, they dont lose score it will always increase and never decrease - unlike arena rating.
I just love this addon and PVP at the moment. Only dumb thing are the queue times. Classes make so much fun to play.
If I hade to sum the game up it would be , convoluted
Holding the aggro is the problem because most of the people are watching MDI but none of them realise that in MDI every DPS gives to Tank 2-5 sec to set up pull and build up aggro. Also, a lot of people don’t realise how impactful their death is because they didn’t use defensive. Let me explain. Every tank have a route, in that route he knows how much will he pull and therefor defensive CD’s are in sync with route. Now if you die as DPS, just for example in first pull in GB and fight goes on too long, tank needs to use his major defensive that he planned to have in next 3-4 pack pull, now all of a sudden tank does not have that CD and he needs to split pull, but from some reason you are mad because tank is “pussy”. It’s stressful as hall, but no one realise that until they try to tank. Question for DPS player, is it better to have huge pull well prepared and grouped with 5 sec delay on opener or mobs running around and you started your DMG ASAP?
M+ 2-5 shld drop the best crests, everything past that shld b skill based in full gear which makes it easier to start pushing and those that dont wana push can max out ilvl in m+ 2-5 now everyone is happy, ppl that wana push still get to push, ppl that wana max gear and do something else, get to, and now ppl doing higher keys are only ppl that like pushing keys, not ppl just trying to get their vault/gear