The more competition the better, but I agree with you guys. Tough to penetrate the market. However, I do think a gas XD style Tundra with maybe a 2000-2500 lb payload would be worth while. There are lots of people where the 1400 lb 1/2 ton payload doesn't cut it, but 3000 lb + is overkill.
Yeah. Would be too expensive on setting up the heavy duty servicing centers and support logistics alone. Toyota is probably just fine not feeling the need to dip into that market. Especially with how expensive heavy duties have become, most people who buy them for their personal use do so well-used. And personal use vehicles is really what Toyota wants to focus on.
In 2008, Toyota Tundra came out with a max payload of 2,200 lbs. Half ton. That was 2008. Since then, the max payload has been under 1,900 lbs now. What do you think an XD truck will do?
@@bigstone75 just a current Tundra with some stiffer rear springs and heavier duty tires making it a heavy 1/2 ton like a 1500 HD or F-200. New Tundras are only around 1400 lbs, like a lot of 1/2 tons. Ford F-150s with the heavy payload package are around 2500 lbs.
You may like to see it, but how much would you pay? It will cost at least as much additional as it does in a full size truck. Toyota can do the math better than I can, but given the reduced volumes from extra cost the per unit cost will increase and the volume will decrease even more, driving more increases in per unit costs. I'm sure this is why diesels made a brief appearance in 1/2 ton trucks and then disappeared.
@@Sylvan_dBToyota 2.8L diesel is a refined engine. Powerful, economical and reliable. It would not cost more than $5k add on to the Tacoma/4Runner. I don’t know why Toyota is giving us the Hybrid.
Let the tariffs begin. The big three will whine that you have to protect our industry from foreign automakers. Even though more and more the big 3 are moving production to China.
@@bentonstaffel2471yes because the big 3 lost to Toyota in the small car market back in the 90s and early 2000s so they started increasing tariffs on Toyota which caused them to lose profit so they moved production of some vehicles to America (and now Mexico) to keep their profits high. If Toyota is allowed to bring their diesels here without having to jump through more hoops than the big 3 the would kill the market. Toyota dependability. I mean look at the resale on Tacomas, 4Runners and Tundras. They hold so much value it’s crazy. Meanwhile with the exception of the 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups every other vehicle never holds its value. Even tahoes are so flipped when you buy them. The reason that is is because people know for a fact a used Tacoma will start and run all day doing strenuous work no matter mileage. Same can’t be said for most American made vehicles. That’s why they keep Toyota down and force them to pay all these tariffs and jump through hoops because it would kill the big 3
@@bentonstaffel2471there not made in America they are made in Texas and have been since 2000! Yota is more American than American trucks! F THE BIG 3 they know if yota went this route they would lose tons of money because now there is a reliable HD truck!
I just want them to make a HD Tundra. Not only would it be nice and reliable but it would also be awesome. I would certainly consider getting one one day.
Toyota should just have Hino start making a "commercial grade dually diesel pickup" for the public By doing that, it wouldn't have to go through the strict EPA red tape the OEMs have to go though, or even having to do crash testing because its "commercial grade" and Toyota customers would be over the moon for it 😉
Hino is seen as a subpar brand in the states inregards to medium/heavy duty trucks/tractors. A lot of their medium duty is just rebadged internationals with their underpinnings.
I really hope Toyota does!…. I’d happily buy a Diesel Tundra. Ford’s Superduty is not a DIY truck, GM has destroyed my respect for them, and Dodge has too many electrical and transmission issues.
In 2024 Ford stopped offering the very specific F150 Heavy Duty Payload Package option or HDPP for short. Andre, remember that abbreviation! These half tons had real payloads in the 2375 to 3000 pound range and thus were perfect for popup campers. Then Ford trademarks the F200. Could we see a resurgence of light duty 3/4 trucks like we had in the 70s and early 80s up through 2004 when Chevy had the 1500 HD? NOT SURE as we saw what was happening with the Titan HD. Once we get beyond the distraction of all electric maybe the big 5 will start focusing on these niche markets?
I was thinking the same thing RE the F200. Back in the jellybean years ford had an F250 “Light Duty” too. (Also can we talk about how big of a marketing error it is to call it an f250 light duty rather than f150 heavy duty 😂)
I have a F150 5.0 with HDPP and I love it. Dont think I would get a truck without it. So an F200 sounds super appealing, so did the Nissan XD if it was more reliable and not overpriced at the time.
@MerpSquirrel I wanted an HDPP truck so badly! Ended up needing a vehicle last Feb and settled on a used Powerboost supercrew with 6.5 bed and big mirrors etc. Great truck. But I still wanna trade it for a HDPP so I can get a slide in camper lol. Safe travels my friend.
I dont think Toyota will embark in this endeavor. Why? Because it's not profitable for them. Why do I arrive at this conclusion? I waited for almost 2 years for a new Tundra (1794 with 6.5 foot bed, with TOW Mirrors). The dealer told me I'd never get it, even though this is in their configurator because Toyota's allocation system is geared to build set ups that are purchased by the public in mass. NOT people like me that actually want to tow. Toyota makes way more profit outside of the USA market and they don't need to compete with the big 3. The dieselgate issue you mention is yet another reason Toyota doesnt need to risk getting into this HD market in North America.
I remember the podcast Andre. Mike Smears said it was going to take Toyota three years to bring a new diesel to the US market. I think they wanted to put a diesel in the Tundra but Toyota knew they had to release a new Tundra because customers were getting impatient and buying other makes.
I remember talking to Toyota engineers about this effort (the 2007 one) and they were looking at using the Cummins 5.0 that ended up in the Titan XD but it didn't meet their standards. I think Toyota figured out then and now that it wasn't a market big enough to chase for them.
The US EPA is out to destroy all ICE vehicles. The US EPA/CARB emissions standards are too onerous and they are too expensive in the long-term, particularly for diesel. I suspect ToYo wants nothing to do with those games.
The more californians driving teslas means the more pressure we can put on the epa to stop requiring this and that if they dont comply with that id say theyre tyrants. Cant have an engine in a teuck without def but here is this chinese junk runs terrible for a long time
@@electrikoptik I meant the Tundra instead of the Tacoma. Already edited. The upcoming Hilux will share with the Tacoma the platform, so a Diesel option to the Tacoma is possible, but doubt it.
Mike Sweers was on an Autoline Network podcast a year ago and made a mention of when Toyota explored HD, and as a result of their propensity to overbuild things, the HD eventually became a Class V before they scrapped the plan. There's no market for a Toyota HD because they don't have a fleet division in America. They probably don't need to get into that market, either, especially when you consider they outsell Ford, GM, RAM in forklift sales combined. ;-)
The XD doesn’t make sense though. The big 3 half tons have more towing capacity. If Toyota made and actual HD diesel I think they would be a good competitor.
A Toyota rep told me when I posed this question, he said "it would cost 1 billion dollars to build a specific plant to only get 3 % of the market share" I instantly disagreed about 3 %. I said you build it and I will be back. I drove Toyota trucks since I was 16 yrs old. All the way up to 58 yrs old when we bought a fifth wheel. Tundra would not pull it, I vowed my whole life never to drive a Ford or Dodge Ram. Her I am today driving a Ram 3500 which in my opinion is far behind Toyota quality. You video got me very excited. My feelings are it wont happen because it seems our government wants diesel gone, so its only a matter of time.
The problem with Rams are that they tend to rust (at least older generations) and some years have engine issues. Other than that they are pretty reliable- the hemi should last 500k miles or even more before a rebuild, and the Cummins much more than that.
Yes! Give me a strait 6 diesel electric hybrid with NO DEF and a 15k tow capacity. 25-30 mpg would be nice. No I do not need to tow a townhome. Just my 14k dumper.
Toyota already sells heavy duty duallies globally in both gas and diesel engines. The most popular is the Daihatsu Delta w a 10 ft bed as well as the bigger Hino trucks
HD trucks are very profitable for the big 3 and rarely have discounts. I will say making a diesel engine carb complaint is obviously not easy and the commercial truck engines are rated differently and likely can't be brought over to customers. I would be interested in 3/4 ton Toyota if they did a turbo charged gas that makes 700ft pounds torque, 60 gallon fuel tank and make it full time 4wd with center diff. Also offer factory aluminum tray option.
Yeah I thought of this when Nissan came out with their 8 cylinder diesel , Toyota had a diesel in the large suv sold in Australia and other parts of the world and it was a good engine so why not in a version for the US market ?! But now with all the changes in exhaust requirements, maybe it would not meet Eva requirements.!?
Toyota's D4D V8 diesel was a turd by most performance accounts. It would have never made it here even if it were emissions compliant. Toyota's new 70 series with 4 cylinder turbo diesel kind of blows it out of the water. Fullboost has a video on it and it was pretty telling.
I think a heavy duty Tundra would be a great idea. What are HD trucks mostly used for? Businesses. What do businesses need? Low maintenance costs. I'm 100% positive that if Toyota were to come out with a line of heavy trucks, they'd be immediately successful and steal business away from the big 3. I think why Nissan's XD failed is mostly marketing. Was it a "heavy half" or genuinely on par with a 3/4 ton? It was mostly a heavy half but nobody knew that! The "XD" was NOT clear enough. Plus, Nissan should've just went for it and made it a proper 3/4 - 1 ton. Take notes Toyota... If you were to join the fray and enter into the heavy duty segment, don't just dip a toe in. You need to be committed. And that means proper naming/marketing. Don't make the same mistake Nissan did. It'd have to be a Tundra 250 or 2500. Or a Tundra 350 or 3500. And build it to compete with the big three. A heavy half will fail. If you're going to do it, do it right.
I agree with you on your assessment of why the Titan XD failed. That wasn't the entire reason, but it did contribute to it. The fact the 5.0L Cummins ISV V8 was significantly down on power compared to the other diesel trucks, but there was no improvement to the fuel mileage was another big reason. You can't give people a lot less torque and power and expect them to accept the same fuel mileage. Also, the bad design of the EGR emissions on the 5.0L Cummins ISV that resulted in coolant loss was another major problem. You basically have to illegally remove the diesel emissions system if you want a reliable truck. I was really excited for the diesel Titan XD Pro4x. I waited to read all the reviews and just came away from the reviews disappointed.
@@The_Opinion_of_Matt I was very excited for the 5.0 Cummins in the Titan XD as well... The engine was kind of like the truck. Caught in the middle. It needed to either get great MPG or have great power and it did neither.
Andre and Nathan, If you want a Toyota pickup with a one ton payload, check out the Hilux Workmate they sell in Australia. In regard to Hino, they have been using Cummins Diesel engines for a few years as Toyota's in-house Diesels don't meet emission standards. 😁
@@ericcrockett6396 I just learned about the Workmate a couple of weeks ago. With that style of bed, it is such a basic truck which such amazing capability. The price of the ones equipped with the 2.7 gas engine and manual transmission is less than $25,000.
Toyota could probably make a tundra HD work if made a high output version of the iforce max with more powerful hybrid components and more boost through the ice. Keep the lineup simple and only offer the 6.5 and 8 ft beds with the choice of dually or single. The front grill on a tundra has more than enough room to expand cooling and a stout hybrid may be able to match a diesel when it comes to towing mpg even as a gasser.
U.S. diesel regulations add too much cost to a diesel engine to be practical for small diesels in typical on-road consumer vehicles. Even off road use of small diesels is also a challenge in spite of decreased price sensitivity. I expect small diesel engines to disappear rather than become prevalent. Additional restrictions and regulations are coming which are likely to impact even heavy duty "pickup" diesel engines. You think the current $5000-10000 premium for diesel is steep? Just wait.
I think they should do a BUILT turbo v6 gas hybrid or turbo v8 gas hybrid that makes similar hp and tq to a 3500 diesel. Think about that. No emissions except cats, no def and dpf crap. Just hybrid Toyota goodness to give the big 3 a run for their money in the HD market
Moderns diesels, even when running "defeat devices" have proven to be nightmares. Either buy and delete or get the gas. In that regard maybe Toyota could find a marked with a beefy Tundra and the 5.7. Its reliable and doesnt lack power.
Diesel are great for towing, because it's a function of torque and frame / suspension. But the towers are far fewer in between compared to the haulers who wants to load u p 2500lbs+ in their bed. I hope they do consider a heavy duty version for haulers.
I'd love them to bring a diesel to market here. Especially a small diesel. But the R&D needed to bring it to the US and be compliant is too much. I see diesel Colorados and Canyons everywhere around me, but sadly they were discontinued.
They just made it junk bro imagine youre at war in iraq the epa is bearing down on you to keep the terrorists air clean you keep dumping gasoline and animal piss in it. Its what happens here it doesnt seem right to me its so complex the quality control is set to sub optimal and then they polish the turd until it shines and someine goes and pays top dollar
There's not enough heavy duty market in the U.S. to make it worth it. Heavy duty trucks outside the U.S. markets are a whole different animal and they compete there with Hino.
I have owned two tundras. Both over 200k miles and absolutely love them. That being said I am having to switch brands just so I have the ability to tow a fifth wheel. Make a tundra with 2500lbs of payload and I’m sold.
I think you should look into hino and dieselgate. Hino had to stop selling trucks in 21 due to emissions problems with their trucks. They had to cut a deal with cummins and install cummins motors in all their trucks. On the cab overs they had to cut a deal with isuzu and the new hino can overs are rebadged isuzu trucks. So right now im not sure they can sell a diesel in the usa. That im not sure of but its my speculation, or they did it to avoid a law suit.
I just got back from Costa Rica and the diesel Hilux were everywhere. Very few American brands at all. I saw 1 F-250, 2 F-150's, and 1 Silverado. The Mitubishi diesel small truck was everywhere.
Toyota should make an HD take on the hybrid electric drive like the Ramcharger. Aim for 25k tow and 4k payload. Leave the big three to keep trying to one up themselves with cray tow numbers 🤪
Toyota has a lot of Diesel engine options for this. They have the Toyota 1VD-FTV 4.5L V8 from the VDJ200 Land Cruiser and the current F33A-FTV 3.3L V6 from the FJA300 Land Cruiser for their General Purpose engines. For a bit of a "heavier duty", Toyota could use the Hino J08E engine family, which is about the same size range as a Cummins ISB 6.7, since the Hino J08E is a 7.7L Straight-6. On other countries actually, they use the same engine as full-size bus and medium-duty truck engines with upwards of 300 horsepower and 1,000+ N.m of torque.
Toyota already manufacturers HD hydrogen powertrains for Kenworth semi trucks for the US market. I don't think we need more bro trucks crowding the roads.
That was a big screw up on Toyotas part because I know a ton of business owners that only run 1 tons and 3/4 tons and they all said they would switch to Toyota immediately!
They already have one polar biome name covered (Tundra) ...They could name this one the TOYOTA TAIGA ..reffering to the Boreal Forested areas ..just a thought.
No it doesn’t go well with Nissan and the XD because they didn’t properly market their truck. Trying to create a in between heavy truck that no one asked for. If Nissan would have went all out and made it a real Heavy duty truck then it wouldn’t have flopped.
We have a 2011 F250 Gasser, and a 2011 Toyota Tundra, the Tundra is just a better truck, bullet proof and it tows 10k basically daily. We also have an 8ft V plow on it in the winter and about 2000lbs in the bed all winter, handles it with ease. If Toyota cane out with an HD truck, i would sell our F250 and buy a Tundra HD immediately
I just wish they would bring over the 70-series Land Cruisers. They already meet EU emissions regulations which are more strict than U.S. emissions regulations. I'm sure the safety rating isn't bad either. If they bring it over and water it down with a "life style" vehicle towing and payload ratings then I wouldn't buy it.
Your point is valid. However, I would also like to add that US legislation protects American brands from foreign competition. Just imagine Toyota making a diesel as reliable as its V8s, V6s, and 4 cylinders. It will obliterate the competition which only Americans brands have a hold on. These politicians will miss their checks from their customers lobbyists
Diesels are more reliable than hybrid systems. This was a mistake to only offer the hybrids as many truck customers don’t care about technology that will break.
Really!?? You just did a video about Ram Diesel Gate and you think Toyota is going to jump into the Diesel market when it's clear that it's almost impossible to make clean diesels.
I've been on the fence about swapping my Sierra 1500 for a Tundra but after driving one, I think i'll still stick to GMC. I love Toyota and want to switch back for myself (bought the Sequoia for my wife) but the Sierra feels like a pickup because it is a pickup. The new Tundras feels like an SUV pretending to be a pickup. If Toyota ever came out with an HD model, I'd consider the swap for real.
I think Toyota would be foolish to try to compete in the HD diesel line up but not in the HD Gas lineup. Let me explain, the hybrid option brings diesel-like characteristics to gas engines, tundra has 580 TQ and Ford 570 TQ, these numbers exceed the TQ figures for legendary engines like the I9 or 7.3 powerstroke of the era. The current Ford power stroke with the HO is already towing 40K which in my estimation is way more than a HD truck should tow safety. Marrying a hybrid to a diesel would produce say 1500TQ and tow 50K, what is the real practicality of that? Add the advent of emissions that is bringing reliability issues to otherwise reliable HD engines and you create a demand for HD Gas engines that can perform like diesel engines without all the emission control drawbacks. There is a definite demand for HD gas alternatives which we've seen already with the 7.3 Godzilla, 6.4 Hemi and 6.6 Chevy. You all made the point to talk about diesel-gate, why would Toyota, known for its reliability, fool with diesels and have to play the emission game when they can hybrid a large gas engine, lead the HD Gas industry in TQ and crush the HD market? I think you add their existing hybrid powertrain to a large, naturally aspirated engine like Ford's 7.3 Godzilla and make diesel like TQ and its game over for diesels. Why even play the diesel game with the big three? If they can achieve 800TQ from their gas powertrain, we are in basic 2500 Cummings territory with the additional benefit of the horsepower a gas powertrain will likely have to compliment those torque numbers. If a current 7.3 Godzilla can tow 20k imagine what this beast could tow with fairly decent MPG. It would be a beast! I can't believe Ford isn't doing this already, they have all the pieces to the puzzle???
Heavy duty pickups are such an American thing. Toyota wants nothing to do with this kinda truck. If they did not get into it in 2008 they’re not starting today.
One of the best Diesel pickup trucks in south America and Australia are Toyota and Nissan I just wish the Americans would finally import one of them because they are way superior to what we have here.
Yes please!!!! As much as I love the new suburbans, I’m scared of all the nightmares you might encounter with afm, transmissions issues and the common GM electrical issues
@@visof30 Those issues, while they can happen, are rare especially when you compare it to the percentage of those sold and on the road. The internet should not be trusted- no matter how much ever people harp on it Even with AFM, there are examples that have hit 250,000+ miles. I would say to give GM a few years to work the bugs out of the current generation. Toyota will not make a Grand Sequoia because that is simply not their market and they sell very few Sequoias every year anyways. I know next that you will say X person had these issues with his Yukon/Tahoe/Suburban and he got ride of it etc but then again, that does not guarantee you will have the same issues with the one you will buy/ or are looking to buy. As long as you do your oil changes timely and with the correct type it will minimize the likelihood of failure. Proper maintenance schedules need to be checked for these vehicles. Also, I have not heard too many complaints with regards to the AFM in the Middle East where they are also sold.
I really don't see Toyota building a Heavy Duty pickup. If they do, it will be stupid expensive. I don't know about you,. but I'm not spending over a 100k, for a Toyota! or any vehicle for that matter. Cool concept but nah! Maybe bring the Hilux diesel engine over and put it in the new Tacoma. That would be sweet!
Toyota has issues (and a class action lawsuit) with the DPF/DEF systems on the Hilux, Land Cruiser, and Fortuner , which also explains why they are not interested in bringing diesels to the US.
They should have done that a long time ago. Now its kind of pointless, especially with the big push for EV's. I could see if you are dominating half ton market then try and step into HD market, but I would not if I was being out sold 5 times or so. I don't see it worth the money.
They need to measure regular sales I think not overall sales where they include fleet sales. I don't see a alot of Ford in my area and within a 500 mile radius
I believe that Toyota should take over he HD truck market in America. Competition is healthy for the market. And I do think that toyota can provide durability, Quality and affordableness.
An HD Tundra would almost be as sweet as Andrey’s “robot” moves 😂
The more competition the better, but I agree with you guys. Tough to penetrate the market. However, I do think a gas XD style Tundra with maybe a 2000-2500 lb payload would be worth while. There are lots of people where the 1400 lb 1/2 ton payload doesn't cut it, but 3000 lb + is overkill.
I agree with this. Have option to increase payload to 2000 to 2500 lbs.
Yeah. Would be too expensive on setting up the heavy duty servicing centers and support logistics alone. Toyota is probably just fine not feeling the need to dip into that market. Especially with how expensive heavy duties have become, most people who buy them for their personal use do so well-used. And personal use vehicles is really what Toyota wants to focus on.
In 2008, Toyota Tundra came out with a max payload of 2,200 lbs. Half ton. That was 2008. Since then, the max payload has been under 1,900 lbs now. What do you think an XD truck will do?
@@bigstone75 just a current Tundra with some stiffer rear springs and heavier duty tires making it a heavy 1/2 ton like a 1500 HD or F-200. New Tundras are only around 1400 lbs, like a lot of 1/2 tons. Ford F-150s with the heavy payload package are around 2500 lbs.
Remember the Titan XD????
I would rather see Toyota put their 4 Cylinder 2.8L Turbo Diesel into their new Tacoma pickups...
You may like to see it, but how much would you pay? It will cost at least as much additional as it does in a full size truck. Toyota can do the math better than I can, but given the reduced volumes from extra cost the per unit cost will increase and the volume will decrease even more, driving more increases in per unit costs. I'm sure this is why diesels made a brief appearance in 1/2 ton trucks and then disappeared.
@@Sylvan_dBToyota 2.8L diesel is a refined engine. Powerful, economical and reliable. It would not cost more than $5k add on to the Tacoma/4Runner. I don’t know why Toyota is giving us the Hybrid.
Emissions
@@f4.5naw woke ass California laws.
Let the tariffs begin. The big three will whine that you have to protect our industry from foreign automakers. Even though more and more the big 3 are moving production to China.
Although Toyota is headquartered in Japan, tundras are made in america lol. 😂 your comment makes no sense
Well all im saying uts its a shitshow I think theyre all junk they keep reselling the same trash like its new
@@bentonstaffel2471yes because the big 3 lost to Toyota in the small car market back in the 90s and early 2000s so they started increasing tariffs on Toyota which caused them to lose profit so they moved production of some vehicles to America (and now Mexico) to keep their profits high. If Toyota is allowed to bring their diesels here without having to jump through more hoops than the big 3 the would kill the market. Toyota dependability. I mean look at the resale on Tacomas, 4Runners and Tundras. They hold so much value it’s crazy. Meanwhile with the exception of the 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups every other vehicle never holds its value. Even tahoes are so flipped when you buy them. The reason that is is because people know for a fact a used Tacoma will start and run all day doing strenuous work no matter mileage. Same can’t be said for most American made vehicles. That’s why they keep Toyota down and force them to pay all these tariffs and jump through hoops because it would kill the big 3
Toyota trucks actually have more parts made in America than any of the big 3 American truck makers.
@@bentonstaffel2471there not made in America they are made in Texas and have been since 2000! Yota is more American than American trucks! F THE BIG 3 they know if yota went this route they would lose tons of money because now there is a reliable HD truck!
I just want them to make a HD Tundra. Not only would it be nice and reliable but it would also be awesome. I would certainly consider getting one one day.
Them diesel hilux is awesome where I’m from
🙋🏻♂️I’m in! My Ram 2500 is a piece of shit!
Toyota should just have Hino start making a "commercial grade dually diesel pickup" for the public
By doing that, it wouldn't have to go through the strict EPA red tape the OEMs have to go though, or even having to do crash testing because its "commercial grade" and Toyota customers would be over the moon for it 😉
Hino is seen as a subpar brand in the states inregards to medium/heavy duty trucks/tractors. A lot of their medium duty is just rebadged internationals with their underpinnings.
Hino are junk!
I really hope Toyota does!…. I’d happily buy a Diesel Tundra. Ford’s Superduty is not a DIY truck, GM has destroyed my respect for them, and Dodge has too many electrical and transmission issues.
In 2024 Ford stopped offering the very specific F150 Heavy Duty Payload Package option or HDPP for short. Andre, remember that abbreviation! These half tons had real payloads in the 2375 to 3000 pound range and thus were perfect for popup campers. Then Ford trademarks the F200. Could we see a resurgence of light duty 3/4 trucks like we had in the 70s and early 80s up through 2004 when Chevy had the 1500 HD? NOT SURE as we saw what was happening with the Titan HD. Once we get beyond the distraction of all electric maybe the big 5 will start focusing on these niche markets?
Chevy had 1500HD past 04. They’re great I have a 07 classic
5/8’s ton
I was thinking the same thing RE the F200. Back in the jellybean years ford had an F250 “Light Duty” too. (Also can we talk about how big of a marketing error it is to call it an f250 light duty rather than f150 heavy duty 😂)
I have a F150 5.0 with HDPP and I love it. Dont think I would get a truck without it. So an F200 sounds super appealing, so did the Nissan XD if it was more reliable and not overpriced at the time.
@MerpSquirrel I wanted an HDPP truck so badly! Ended up needing a vehicle last Feb and settled on a used Powerboost supercrew with 6.5 bed and big mirrors etc. Great truck. But I still wanna trade it for a HDPP so I can get a slide in camper lol. Safe travels my friend.
An HD Toyota truck would go hard AF.
It would be an absolute monster.
I dont think Toyota will embark in this endeavor. Why? Because it's not profitable for them. Why do I arrive at this conclusion? I waited for almost 2 years for a new Tundra (1794 with 6.5 foot bed, with TOW Mirrors). The dealer told me I'd never get it, even though this is in their configurator because Toyota's allocation system is geared to build set ups that are purchased by the public in mass. NOT people like me that actually want to tow. Toyota makes way more profit outside of the USA market and they don't need to compete with the big 3. The dieselgate issue you mention is yet another reason Toyota doesnt need to risk getting into this HD market in North America.
I remember the podcast Andre. Mike Smears said it was going to take Toyota three years to bring a new diesel to the US market. I think they wanted to put a diesel in the Tundra but Toyota knew they had to release a new Tundra because customers were getting impatient and buying other makes.
I remember talking to Toyota engineers about this effort (the 2007 one) and they were looking at using the Cummins 5.0 that ended up in the Titan XD but it didn't meet their standards. I think Toyota figured out then and now that it wasn't a market big enough to chase for them.
The US EPA is out to destroy all ICE vehicles. The US EPA/CARB emissions standards are too onerous and they are too expensive in the long-term, particularly for diesel. I suspect ToYo wants nothing to do with those games.
The more californians driving teslas means the more pressure we can put on the epa to stop requiring this and that if they dont comply with that id say theyre tyrants. Cant have an engine in a teuck without def but here is this chinese junk runs terrible for a long time
Since the new Tundra shares the platform with the Land Cruiser, they more likely use the V6 Twin Turbo Diesel.
They share the same basic architecture but they are not identical. The Tacoma's TNGA-F is gauged down to fit the needs of a mid-size pickup.
Dosnt meet CARB emissions
@@electrikoptik I meant the Tundra instead of the Tacoma. Already edited. The upcoming Hilux will share with the Tacoma the platform, so a Diesel option to the Tacoma is possible, but doubt it.
Mike Sweers was on an Autoline Network podcast a year ago and made a mention of when Toyota explored HD, and as a result of their propensity to overbuild things, the HD eventually became a Class V before they scrapped the plan. There's no market for a Toyota HD because they don't have a fleet division in America. They probably don't need to get into that market, either, especially when you consider they outsell Ford, GM, RAM in forklift sales combined. ;-)
Just imagine the size of the chin spoiler on an HD Tundra!
The Titan XD is a cautionary tale that Toyota must have analyzed.
The XD doesn’t make sense though. The big 3 half tons have more towing capacity. If Toyota made and actual HD diesel I think they would be a good competitor.
Wow can you image that 😊
I welcome it, all competition is good for us. No matter if you like ford chevy or dodge. This will only make the others improve.
Dodge ? 😂😂😂 Dodge hasn’t made a HD truck for 14 years dude. When RAM and Dodge split in Oct 2009. Production was moved the Chrysler.
@@AussieDazza The current Ram HD is pretty good, especially with the Cummins. The 6.4 is also good, except the MDS issues.
A Toyota rep told me when I posed this question, he said "it would cost 1 billion dollars to build a specific plant to only get 3 % of the market share" I instantly disagreed about 3 %. I said you build it and I will be back. I drove Toyota trucks since I was 16 yrs old. All the way up to 58 yrs old when we bought a fifth wheel. Tundra would not pull it, I vowed my whole life never to drive a Ford or Dodge Ram. Her I am today driving a Ram 3500 which in my opinion is far behind Toyota quality. You video got me very excited. My feelings are it wont happen because it seems our government wants diesel gone, so its only a matter of time.
The problem with Rams are that they tend to rust (at least older generations) and some years have engine issues. Other than that they are pretty reliable- the hemi should last 500k miles or even more before a rebuild, and the Cummins much more than that.
Perhaps Toyota should concentrate on producing a viable 1/2 ton pickup before considering building a heavy duty pickup.
Yes! Give me a strait 6 diesel electric hybrid with NO DEF and a 15k tow capacity. 25-30 mpg would be nice. No I do not need to tow a townhome. Just my 14k dumper.
Toyota already sells heavy duty duallies globally in both gas and diesel engines. The most popular is the Daihatsu Delta w a 10 ft bed as well as the bigger Hino trucks
Hino are junk!
Toyota doesn't build a serious 1/2 ton, there's no way they can build a HD, they also don't sell enough Tundras to justify it.
Do you guys at TFL have what’s going on with Edison Motors on your radar? They’re taking preorders for the diesel/electric conversion kit now.
HD trucks are very profitable for the big 3 and rarely have discounts. I will say making a diesel engine carb complaint is obviously not easy and the commercial truck engines are rated differently and likely can't be brought over to customers. I would be interested in 3/4 ton Toyota if they did a turbo charged gas that makes 700ft pounds torque, 60 gallon fuel tank and make it full time 4wd with center diff. Also offer factory aluminum tray option.
Yeah I thought of this when Nissan came out with their 8 cylinder diesel , Toyota had a diesel in the large suv sold in Australia and other parts of the world and it was a good engine so why not in a version for the US market ?! But now with all the changes in exhaust requirements, maybe it would not meet Eva requirements.!?
The reliability and efficiency was lost when they had to be EPA compliant.
Toyota's D4D V8 diesel was a turd by most performance accounts. It would have never made it here even if it were emissions compliant. Toyota's new 70 series with 4 cylinder turbo diesel kind of blows it out of the water. Fullboost has a video on it and it was pretty telling.
Thanks for the info!
I think a heavy duty Tundra would be a great idea. What are HD trucks mostly used for? Businesses. What do businesses need? Low maintenance costs. I'm 100% positive that if Toyota were to come out with a line of heavy trucks, they'd be immediately successful and steal business away from the big 3.
I think why Nissan's XD failed is mostly marketing. Was it a "heavy half" or genuinely on par with a 3/4 ton? It was mostly a heavy half but nobody knew that! The "XD" was NOT clear enough. Plus, Nissan should've just went for it and made it a proper 3/4 - 1 ton.
Take notes Toyota... If you were to join the fray and enter into the heavy duty segment, don't just dip a toe in. You need to be committed. And that means proper naming/marketing. Don't make the same mistake Nissan did. It'd have to be a Tundra 250 or 2500. Or a Tundra 350 or 3500. And build it to compete with the big three. A heavy half will fail. If you're going to do it, do it right.
I agree with you on your assessment of why the Titan XD failed. That wasn't the entire reason, but it did contribute to it. The fact the 5.0L Cummins ISV V8 was significantly down on power compared to the other diesel trucks, but there was no improvement to the fuel mileage was another big reason. You can't give people a lot less torque and power and expect them to accept the same fuel mileage. Also, the bad design of the EGR emissions on the 5.0L Cummins ISV that resulted in coolant loss was another major problem. You basically have to illegally remove the diesel emissions system if you want a reliable truck. I was really excited for the diesel Titan XD Pro4x. I waited to read all the reviews and just came away from the reviews disappointed.
@@The_Opinion_of_Matt I was very excited for the 5.0 Cummins in the Titan XD as well... The engine was kind of like the truck. Caught in the middle. It needed to either get great MPG or have great power and it did neither.
Andre and Nathan, If you want a Toyota pickup with a one ton payload, check out the Hilux Workmate they sell in Australia. In regard to Hino, they have been using Cummins Diesel engines for a few years as Toyota's in-house Diesels don't meet emission standards. 😁
I would love and think alot of truck users (real users not 3/4 ton grocery getters) would love the utility of a aussie style bed
@@ericcrockett6396 I just learned about the Workmate a couple of weeks ago. With that style of bed, it is such a basic truck which such amazing capability. The price of the ones equipped with the 2.7 gas engine and manual transmission is less than $25,000.
well cummins doesn't seem to be much better than hino diesels
@@miraphycs7377 Yes that is true and let's not forget what a failure the Cummins used in the Nissan Titan was.
Would be cool! They made a chassis for rvs back in the 90s. They should try and build it here!
Toyota could probably make a tundra HD work if made a high output version of the iforce max with more powerful hybrid components and more boost through the ice. Keep the lineup simple and only offer the 6.5 and 8 ft beds with the choice of dually or single. The front grill on a tundra has more than enough room to expand cooling and a stout hybrid may be able to match a diesel when it comes to towing mpg even as a gasser.
Anyone else remember when the Tundra was rumored to get the 5.0 Cummins like the Titan XD?
I do
U.S. diesel regulations add too much cost to a diesel engine to be practical for small diesels in typical on-road consumer vehicles. Even off road use of small diesels is also a challenge in spite of decreased price sensitivity. I expect small diesel engines to disappear rather than become prevalent. Additional restrictions and regulations are coming which are likely to impact even heavy duty "pickup" diesel engines. You think the current $5000-10000 premium for diesel is steep? Just wait.
I think they should do a BUILT turbo v6 gas hybrid or turbo v8 gas hybrid that makes similar hp and tq to a 3500 diesel. Think about that. No emissions except cats, no def and dpf crap. Just hybrid Toyota goodness to give the big 3 a run for their money in the HD market
Agreed, just do a beefed up V6 turbo hybrid. Up the boost and hybrid system. Get 7 to 800 ft lbs tof torque. Beef up the brakes and full float axles.
Moderns diesels, even when running "defeat devices" have proven to be nightmares. Either buy and delete or get the gas. In that regard maybe Toyota could find a marked with a beefy Tundra and the 5.7. Its reliable and doesnt lack power.
Toyota used to be low maintenance, reliable and reasonable prices. But they have been changing their core of their philosophy.
Considering the Feds are trying to drive out Cummins and likely will target Powerstroke and Duramax next I don't think I would wade into that pool.
It’ll be a big NO! Andrey is right! Because the US is a small market for them. It will not be smart for them to throw money away.
Diesel are great for towing, because it's a function of torque and frame / suspension.
But the towers are far fewer in between compared to the haulers who wants to load u p 2500lbs+ in their bed.
I hope they do consider a heavy duty version for haulers.
I would seriously consider a light 3/4 ton betweener toyota tundra
I'd love them to bring a diesel to market here. Especially a small diesel. But the R&D needed to bring it to the US and be compliant is too much. I see diesel Colorados and Canyons everywhere around me, but sadly they were discontinued.
They just made it junk bro imagine youre at war in iraq the epa is bearing down on you to keep the terrorists air clean you keep dumping gasoline and animal piss in it. Its what happens here it doesnt seem right to me its so complex the quality control is set to sub optimal and then they polish the turd until it shines and someine goes and pays top dollar
There's not enough heavy duty market in the U.S. to make it worth it. Heavy duty trucks outside the U.S. markets are a whole different animal and they compete there with Hino.
I had a Toyota dually with a 22re in it I loved it
I have owned two tundras. Both over 200k miles and absolutely love them. That being said I am having to switch brands just so I have the ability to tow a fifth wheel. Make a tundra with 2500lbs of payload and I’m sold.
Is that a book, a movie laying on your desk? > "Man Bites Dog" .. looks interesting.. Thank you!
Toyota is the grown up in the room full of frat boys arm wrestling and beating each other up just to impress one another.
I think you should look into hino and dieselgate. Hino had to stop selling trucks in 21 due to emissions problems with their trucks. They had to cut a deal with cummins and install cummins motors in all their trucks. On the cab overs they had to cut a deal with isuzu and the new hino can overs are rebadged isuzu trucks. So right now im not sure they can sell a diesel in the usa. That im not sure of but its my speculation, or they did it to avoid a law suit.
They should collaborate with Nissan and make a HD japanese line-up
I just got back from Costa Rica and the diesel Hilux were everywhere. Very few American brands at all. I saw 1 F-250, 2 F-150's, and 1 Silverado. The Mitubishi diesel small truck was everywhere.
rangers are everywhere overseas.
Toyota should make an HD take on the hybrid electric drive like the Ramcharger.
Aim for 25k tow and 4k payload. Leave the big three to keep trying to one up themselves with cray tow numbers 🤪
Toyota has a lot of Diesel engine options for this.
They have the Toyota 1VD-FTV 4.5L V8 from the VDJ200 Land Cruiser and the current F33A-FTV 3.3L V6 from the FJA300 Land Cruiser for their General Purpose engines.
For a bit of a "heavier duty", Toyota could use the Hino J08E engine family, which is about the same size range as a Cummins ISB 6.7, since the Hino J08E is a 7.7L Straight-6. On other countries actually, they use the same engine as full-size bus and medium-duty truck engines with upwards of 300 horsepower and 1,000+ N.m of torque.
If they didn't build it in 2007-2008 they are not going to do it now!
This has been a rumor for over 20 years. Not happening. Toyota won't sell a diesel passenger vehicle in the US due to emissions standards here...
They don't need a Hd truck,but a diesel option for the Taco/Tundra would be nice.
Toyota already manufacturers HD hydrogen powertrains for Kenworth semi trucks for the US market. I don't think we need more bro trucks crowding the roads.
That was a big screw up on Toyotas part because I know a ton of business owners that only run 1 tons and 3/4 tons and they all said they would switch to Toyota immediately!
i been wanting a dually for a while now and if Toyota did in fact come out with one i would be getting one, when the time comes.
They already have one polar biome name covered (Tundra) ...They could name this one the TOYOTA TAIGA ..reffering to the Boreal Forested areas ..just a thought.
Here in Australia 94% of all pickups sold are diesel.
I think this would be huge if successful. Hopefully Honda wakes up and makes a real body on frame truck. Because they are lacking
Honda will make BOF trucks when one of the D3's make generators and ATV's
No it doesn’t go well with Nissan and the XD because they didn’t properly market their truck. Trying to create a in between heavy truck that no one asked for. If Nissan would have went all out and made it a real
Heavy duty truck then it wouldn’t have flopped.
yota doesn't even compete well with the tundra,they would do even worse with a heavy duty
Toyota knows this. Plus with the government regulations it’s not worth the risk.
We have a 2011 F250 Gasser, and a 2011 Toyota Tundra, the Tundra is just a better truck, bullet proof and it tows 10k basically daily. We also have an 8ft V plow on it in the winter and about 2000lbs in the bed all winter, handles it with ease. If Toyota cane out with an HD truck, i would sell our F250 and buy a Tundra HD immediately
Thanks for the candor on topics like this. Stay with what you’re good at Toyota.
Thank you for watching.
Any additional production capacity should be building a Maverick-fighter
I just wish they would bring over the 70-series Land Cruisers. They already meet EU emissions regulations which are more strict than U.S. emissions regulations. I'm sure the safety rating isn't bad either. If they bring it over and water it down with a "life style" vehicle towing and payload ratings then I wouldn't buy it.
They won't do it. Not enough market. The tundra barely competes compared to the big 3.
Toyota has ignored this segment for years. They don’t take American truck buyers serious. I’m calling 1000% VAPORWARE
Your point is valid. However, I would also like to add that US legislation protects American brands from foreign competition. Just imagine Toyota making a diesel as reliable as its V8s, V6s, and 4 cylinders. It will obliterate the competition which only Americans brands have a hold on. These politicians will miss their checks from their customers lobbyists
I love how Toyota makes truck for the north american market and they're not even really trying that hard, because they don't honestly care lol
Single wheel HD ,long wheel base 1ton Diesel truck?
Diesels are more reliable than hybrid systems. This was a mistake to only offer the hybrids as many truck customers don’t care about technology that will break.
Really!?? You just did a video about Ram Diesel Gate and you think Toyota is going to jump into the Diesel market when it's clear that it's almost impossible to make clean diesels.
I've been on the fence about swapping my Sierra 1500 for a Tundra but after driving one, I think i'll still stick to GMC. I love Toyota and want to switch back for myself (bought the Sequoia for my wife) but the Sierra feels like a pickup because it is a pickup. The new Tundras feels like an SUV pretending to be a pickup. If Toyota ever came out with an HD model, I'd consider the swap for real.
Living beside the new Toyota battery plant in NC definitely a need here for HD everything;)
Omg yes 👍🏻
Toyota make a huge 6.5l+ turbo diesel?
Id be curious to see this.😅
I am so thankful for the EPA
I think Toyota would be foolish to try to compete in the HD diesel line up but not in the HD Gas lineup. Let me explain, the hybrid option brings diesel-like characteristics to gas engines, tundra has 580 TQ and Ford 570 TQ, these numbers exceed the TQ figures for legendary engines like the I9 or 7.3 powerstroke of the era. The current Ford power stroke with the HO is already towing 40K which in my estimation is way more than a HD truck should tow safety. Marrying a hybrid to a diesel would produce say 1500TQ and tow 50K, what is the real practicality of that? Add the advent of emissions that is bringing reliability issues to otherwise reliable HD engines and you create a demand for HD Gas engines that can perform like diesel engines without all the emission control drawbacks. There is a definite demand for HD gas alternatives which we've seen already with the 7.3 Godzilla, 6.4 Hemi and 6.6 Chevy. You all made the point to talk about diesel-gate, why would Toyota, known for its reliability, fool with diesels and have to play the emission game when they can hybrid a large gas engine, lead the HD Gas industry in TQ and crush the HD market? I think you add their existing hybrid powertrain to a large, naturally aspirated engine like Ford's 7.3 Godzilla and make diesel like TQ and its game over for diesels. Why even play the diesel game with the big three? If they can achieve 800TQ from their gas powertrain, we are in basic 2500 Cummings territory with the additional benefit of the horsepower a gas powertrain will likely have to compliment those torque numbers. If a current 7.3 Godzilla can tow 20k imagine what this beast could tow with fairly decent MPG. It would be a beast! I can't believe Ford isn't doing this already, they have all the pieces to the puzzle???
No way in hell would Toyota build a diesel powered truck for NA. A gas powered HD, maybe. But I see them sticking to their current segments.
I need an HD but don't want to get rid of my tundra. If they made an hd tundra under 80k I would absolutely get it.
Heavy duty pickups are such an American thing. Toyota wants nothing to do with this kinda truck. If they did not get into it in 2008 they’re not starting today.
Would be cool, but with all the red tape in the way. The US won’t see a heavy duty nor a diesel option. Unfortunately it’s just a pipe dream.
T100 was hino built and they were beasts.
One of the best Diesel pickup trucks in south America and Australia are Toyota and Nissan I just wish the Americans would finally import one of them because they are way superior to what we have here.
I also want toyata to make a suburban competitor, and call it the "Grand Sequoia" 🙏🏽🙏🏽
Yes please!!!! As much as I love the new suburbans, I’m scared of all the nightmares you might encounter with afm, transmissions issues and the common GM electrical issues
@@visof30 Those issues, while they can happen, are rare especially when you compare it to the percentage of those sold and on the road. The internet should not be trusted- no matter how much ever people harp on it Even with AFM, there are examples that have hit 250,000+ miles. I would say to give GM a few years to work the bugs out of the current generation. Toyota will not make a Grand Sequoia because that is simply not their market and they sell very few Sequoias every year anyways.
I know next that you will say X person had these issues with his Yukon/Tahoe/Suburban and he got ride of it etc but then again, that does not guarantee you will have the same issues with the one you will buy/ or are looking to buy. As long as you do your oil changes timely and with the correct type it will minimize the likelihood of failure. Proper maintenance schedules need to be checked for these vehicles.
Also, I have not heard too many complaints with regards to the AFM in the Middle East where they are also sold.
I really don't see Toyota building a Heavy Duty pickup. If they do, it will be stupid expensive. I don't know about you,. but I'm not spending over a 100k, for a Toyota! or any vehicle for that matter. Cool concept but nah! Maybe bring the Hilux diesel engine over and put it in the new Tacoma. That would be sweet!
They should bring the global Hilux with the diesel engine. There you have a midsized pickup with over 2000lbs payload and 7000lbs++ towing capacity
Whats Missing ? ? Dual Wheels in the Front !
A hybrid diesel would be amazing.
Toyota also had an emissions scandal with their propane lifts a little while back iirc
Toyota has issues (and a class action lawsuit) with the DPF/DEF systems on the Hilux, Land Cruiser, and Fortuner , which also explains why they are not interested in bringing diesels to the US.
I believe I would want a heavy duty truck from Toyota because of the reliability
Why not ??? Toyota has dominated almost every segment in the world’s car market now, it is just a matter of time now !!!
Toyota could easily make a 2500 hybrid v8 if they wanted to. For the foreseeable future you’ll have to go to the big 3 for 2500 and up
I would buy one in heart beat call it tundra hd
If Toyota builds an heavy duty truck I’ll, trade my 2018 Tundra on one ASAP!!
They should have done that a long time ago. Now its kind of pointless, especially with the big push for EV's. I could see if you are dominating half ton market then try and step into HD market, but I would not if I was being out sold 5 times or so. I don't see it worth the money.
They need to measure regular sales I think not overall sales where they include fleet sales. I don't see a alot of Ford in my area and within a 500 mile radius
If they would make a taco with a 6- speed manual with a v6 engine diesel I would definitely buy one
The 10.5" Tundra rear axles are built by Hino.
I believe that Toyota should take over he HD truck market in America. Competition is healthy for the market. And I do think that toyota can provide durability, Quality and affordableness.
There have been rumors about a heavy-duty Tundra from many years ago.