The toilet flange needs to be on top of the finished floor. Meaning the bottom edge of the flange needs to be on the same plane as the toilet. So if your toilet sits on the tile, the flange needs to be on top of the tile too.
Primer does not only clean the fitting/pipe surfaces, but it also sightly softens the surfaces to be mated together. So yes, both surfaces should get primer. And the primer does not need to be completely dry before glue is put on.
This is by far the best, short and effective video...easy, clear and straight to the point. TH-cam, hire this guy as the only approved videos presenter and block all others! Thank you sir. I would take out the flush noise at end as it made me deaf for 3 minutes!
THANKS for the positive feedback! And yes.... I probably shouldn't have put the flushing noise in their, but sometimes I get a little bored with my own narration and I kind of "rebel"..HA! Thanks again for taking the time to comment!
Excellent info and tutorial. But I and many pro's would first finish the floor around the white PCV pipe. And then cut the pipe flush with new floor and the install flange. Good video.
Yes. There are 2 ways to do this for sure. Before I made this video, I wanted to get several opinions from different plumbers. In my local poll, and to my surprise, every single plumber said to finish the floor after, as long as the flooring was regular height tile and nothing unusually thick. The flooring guy said the same thing. You’re the 2nd comment I’ve gotten that that does it the other way. Most folks like me, don’t want to drill through tile and chance cracking it. Better to use a spacer if the tile ends up too high. But like I said, either way for sure, thanks for the comment.
@@PhilCrockett Great video thanks, but also confirming the kid's method is the better way to go. As long as you're the one who set the tile in a well spread mortar bed, there shouldn't be any issues drilling through the tiles whatsoever. In fact, they will give your tapcons a more sure grab as concrete is often inconsistent when mixed and poured, leaving the drilled holes susceptible to crumbling interiors. Also, I recommend cleaning and priming the soil stack just before the flange goes in, as well as giving the flange a quarter turn while it's being inserted. Every weak link I've ever seen in the pvc chain is an under-glued joint. Not that yours was, but I never take chances when it costs pennies and only takes a few seconds. Best of luck, and thanks again for the video!
No need to tile tight to the soil pipe. Tell the installer to hold tile back the width if the flange ring, then fill with thinset. That way you're not drilling thru tile with your tap cons.
AWESOME VIDEO!!!! Simple, clear, to the point, and step by step!! Fantastic how you mention exactly what you need for tools and hardware!! You made my day a hell of a lot easier Sir!!!
This method works PERFECTLY for basement bathrooms. I just completed it exactly as shown in this video on my new basement bathroom and no leaks whatsoever. A regular standard size wax seal worked great. I did not need to buy a thicker wax seal. I also caulked around the toilet but left the rear of the toilet perimeter uncaulked so if there are ever any problems I would see it. make sure you do that if you caulk. Never caulk around the entire toilet (leave the back part uncaulked). Also like he said, make sure you use a metal rimmed flange and not an all plastic/pvc flange. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND his method shown in this video where you put the flange in first and then tile up to it. A+
BTW..... I looked at your main web page and clicked on some of your domains. Good to see a fellow Show-Me State guy doing well. I swear our paths have crossed at some point. I see a lot of similar interests. As a side note, your site: www.Missourimetaldetecting.com is one that I will have to pass on to my friend. He is starting up a metal detecting youtube channel. check it out: th-cam.com/channels/9JfmF1FC4qXpZkv_X2Bd1Q.html Anyway, Thanks again for watching and commenting. I'll be checking out your www.stevenking.biz site more often.
Thnx for keeping the bolts and slots positioned properly, as a remodeler I've had to reposition flanges so many times because some one was too lazy to use a square or tape measure, flushing sound at the end was a nice bonus
For the Tapcons, be sure to use the right size concrete drill bit. And be sure to drill deep enough. You don't want the fastener to bottom out before the head pulls down on the stainless ring. Your drill will twist the the Tapcon head right off the bolt shaft. What a mess!
I installed the Mansfield Vanquish toilet. It's manual said to make the top of flange level with the finished floor. The first time I installed the flange on top of the finished floor and the toilet rocked/wobbled on the flange because it was too high. And yes, I had the flange screwed down. I reinstalled the flange at the instructed height and it worked perfectly. Every brand is different. Make sure you read the instructions.
Glad to see this. So many back and forth comments about installing to cement floor or finished blah blah. I have a concrete floor in my basement and intend on screwing flange right to the floor as shown here because I plan to install this very toilet. Thanks for saving my hours of reading comments. =)
The primer needs to be on both components, unless you only want the cement to reliably stick to one of the pieces. Also, don't let the primer dry. It needs to be wet to bond with the cement and PVC. These are both right on the can, steps 4 and 5.
The flange cap can create a vacuum. Do not leave the towel in between it, as it will slowly get sucked in. Because of this vacuum, I'd be hesitant to leave the cap on for long.
Great video, thank you. Obviously this tile job worked perfectly for the flange in this video, but generally, should the tile work be done first around the waste pipe then have the flange installed on top of that? Or does it not matter?
There's a lot of plumbers that will tell you to have the tile in first. My tile guy wanted the flange in first. if it sits too low, you can add spacers, or just simply use a jumbo wax ring.
Great video, very helpful! I just attempted to replace a toilet in the basement and found out that the PVC flange is cracked on both sides. I was going to replace the entire flange but I realized that there was no screws holding it in, so I think the original owner glued it in but never screwed the flange down. This is the basement so I'm assuming concrete underneath. So, I will use a flange repair kit (just a metal ring) and screw it down over the original PVC flange so I can avoid attempting to remove that. I will have to use the masonry bit to drill before the screws and this video showed me how to do that. Wish me luck! lol
great vid, i dont like the sharp pvc edges, that happen after the cover comes off, it can scratch the wax or rubber ring? also, shocked you had to go over 2 inches long?
Those metal flanges disappear pretty quick. The products our there are getting better and better! The first toilet I ever did 20 years ago, was in a basement on concrete. There wasn't even a flange. They just hammer drilled a hole and planted an anchor thought the toilet. of course it rusted away and one day the toilet tipped when the subject leaned over to wipe. It was an epic 'wipe-out'! Ask me how I know........
@@PhilCrockett Stainless steel rings are available, although they typically 400 series, stainless which is magnetic and not the highest grade of stainless. Just to be safe, I painted my stainless steel ring with 3 coats of Rust-Oleum High Performance spray paint before installation. The problem with the all-PVC flanges is that after about 10-15 years it tends to get brittle and can break, especially if that is where the flange bolts are attached. Replacing a PVC flange that has been properly glued to the PVC drain pipe can be a nightmare, especially when drain pipe is installed in concrete slab. If the metal flange ring does corrode, it can be replaced while still leaving the PVC portion of the flange still in place.
Here is the replacement stainless steel ring for the above mentioned Oatey flange. www.amazon.com/Oatey-42778-Grommets-4-Inch-Stainless/dp/B003FX6ED6/ Never use any galvanized steel or zinc coated metal parts around or inside a toilet. Only use stainless steel or solid brass.
FYI. When he says if you have a 4” pipe then you need a 4” flange is misleading. You actually need a 3” x 4” knockout flange to fit inside the 4” pipe. If you buy a 4” knockout flange it will be too big to fit inside the pipe.
I've never understood why you guys use pvc cleaner and glue. When they are used in combination, it is my experience that the 2 pieces are basically welded together, where as if only the glue is used, it's only, well..., "glued". I say this because if you ever have a broken flange, if it is welded, you are pretty much sol, where as if it is only glued, you can at least chip it out to install a new flange. Am I missing something? Other than that, I really enjoyed your vid and gave you a big thumbs up! Thanks!!
Thanks for the thumbs up. sometimes I do things in order to not get more hate mail. If I didn't use the cleaner, I'd never hear the end of it. Glad you liked my vid, Mark!
Actually, the flange can be installed either way. I took a poll at the local plumbing store to see what everyone does. The majority by far, told me they would install to the concrete since my tile wasn't going to add too much height. Now.... if you have super thick flooring, you don't want the flange below the surface. You can always shim it up with flange spacers. A lot of plumbers will argue for either way, but both ways work.
@@PhilCrockett I don't know why there is so much debate on this subject...I've done it both ways and had problems only with installing directly on the concrete slab and tiling around it. Had leaks galore and needed a special gasket as the wax rings weren't able to seal correctly. But again, it does seem like a lot of people will just put it to the concrete. I will NOT be doing it that way again! To each their own though.
First, thanks for the video it is a duplicate of my situation with the rough in stub in the basement. Second I need some advice, I want to sit my toilet on the bare concrete floor for now but in some years I might want to lay floor, if I set the flange flush will I have created a nightmare? My toilet upstairs was installed by the builder and it is NOT on top of the floor either and seems just fine. When I install the basement flange can I sit it just a bit higher to accommodate future flooring or is this a bad idea? Any help is appreciated.
And to all those that say the flange needs to (or must) sit on top of the finished floor; Many times I have pulled up the linoleum and installed ceramic tile that usually comes out even with the top of the toilet flange. It's not a problem. A standard wax rig w/flange will work just fine and there will be no leaks.
I totally agree! In every field I've worked, there are those who have been taught different ways, and they all swear it's the ONLY way. The secret is.......... wait for it...... wait for it......... the secret is....... they all might be right.
Phil, as some others have already stated, your installation is not correct and will lead to leaking toilets... being the novice that I am, I watched your video and installed the flange directly to the subfloor and now I’m staring at a flange that is slightly recessed below the tile. I cannot get mad at you of course, this was my laziness and lack of additional research that got me here... but it would kind of you to at the very least put something in the description urging DIYers to set the toilet flange AFF. For anyone reading this who made the same mistake as me, I would suggest the use of the set rite flange extension kit.
Thanks for the input. I checked with multiple plumbers and flooring subs before I did this, and went with their recommendations. The toilet install on this flange went well, and works wonderfully. No leaks, no problems. It all depends on the thickness of the flooring. In this case, I chose to be a little recessed instead of accidentally having the flange above the surface (that cause rocking, and is super hard to redo). If the flange turns out to be too low, then you use a jumbo ring, or spacers like you said. It's very difficult to have a video that covers everyone's specific situation. Most folks probably have the flooring put in first, but my recommendations for plumbers and flooring guy said to do it like the video shows. Thanks for your input, though. My toilet is doing just fine, and if I had to do this all over again, I wouldn't change a thing (in my situation that is). if you can get it as close to level as you can, then that's great,..... but be sure to not go too high.
Isn't the metal flange supposed to be on TOP of your finished floor? The rim of the toilet sits on the finished floor, meaning the bottom of the flange should sit on the finished floor. This is shown wrong. This is shown flush with the floor.
If you use cement in the drain pipe, why not use a bit of primer as well? That doesn't make sense to me, as priner ensures a proper bonding of the 2 pipes.
sure. You can use primer. I use it mainly for water pressure lines. We didn't have this stuff in the old days. It's really like most things over-kill. However.... You are correct. use it if you believe in it. Thanks for watching and commenting , Dave!
Here's the truth of it...................... you really don't even need primer if you're using clean pipe. (ssshhhhhh......don't tell the inspector I said that.....) BTW...... let it dry. It's ok.
Yes. However, if the flange is put in before the tile, you;ll have to give it your best guess on how high to raise it. If you raise too high, the toilet will rock. If it's too low, then all you need is a jumbo wax ring which is a common product and works well. When you can, put the flange on top of the finished floor.
@@PhilCrockett ....If you install a "jumbo" wax ring, then I suggest people watch closely for leaks over time. Two of my downstairs bathrooms were installed with the flange too low...on the subfloor....with 3/4" Advantech, thinset, 3/4" Durock, thinset and tile on top. I had no idea that was done....not the first owner. After the wax deteriorated, they leaked, and destroyed the subfloor. If possible, I recommend people make sure that the flange is at least level with the finished floor, if not on top of it.
I'm replacing my 4" PVC flange. Can i use the same tapcon holes in the cement foundation or how does that work with lining up the mounting screws for the toilet base?
Probably one of the better videos I have watched, but the opinion bit/comment above or below or flush should be explained. Someone needs to do a video on this. Is it actually code in some states, why is it code? Why do some people say on top results in leaks and rocking. I would have a hard time believing it would be code anywhere if that is true. I'm not stating an opinion, I just want to know what the acceptable options are.
The answer, will usually be that the flange sits on top of the floor. However, in many new builds, the tile people want the flange already installed. Which makes sense, because you don't want to screw to tile. So... depending on the thickness of your floor, you will have to give it your best guess and use spacers if you think the floor will be too thick. We're talking about a flange that's 3/16" tall. So if it's flush or on top, that's TRULY NOT A BIG DEAL. However, the worse problem is if it's too low below the surface and too high above the surface. The good news about this is they make a Jumbo wax ring that can seal a low set flange. The bad news is, there is not a quick fix for a high set flange. It was a lot easier when bathroom floors were vinyl sheets. ..... no figuring on height, you just simply screw them down (which BTW, sits "on top of the floor"... if that helps. Some plumbers in the 70's didn't even use flanges, they just screwed the toilet to the floor which works, but dumb for many reasons. Anyway...... The real answer is: flange on top, but be careful not to set it too high. The second answer is, flush works fine, as long as it's not too low. Remember, you can always use spacers and jumbo rings if needed. In this video, I didn't need either, and the flange was fairly flush. I have had, and will have no problems. Before doing all of this, I got advice from my plumbers friends at our local plumber supply store where they hang out. Most said flush is safe in the case of tile coming in second, and some said on top guestimating with spacers.... both sides agreed that it was splitting hairs (a 3/16" hair).....
@@PhilCrockett There are special bits designed to drill into ceramic or porcelain tile like the ones in the link below. Usually, one needs to drill deeper into the concrete or wood subfloor that is below the tile. If there is tile on top of concrete, I would use the drill bit below to get through the tile and switch to a masonry bit size specified by the bolt manufacturer (Tapcon, etc). If wood subfloor is below the tile, then obviously just a ordinary wood bit should be used. www.amazon.com/dp/B000ETWIKM/sr=1-1/qid=1495971979
Thanks for the link Mark! Maybe it will help someone out. I still don't like the idea of drilling through tile. The risk of it cracking increases at those pressure points, but that's just me and my kind of luck. Thanks again for the link!
Oatey, The company that makes these, literally instructs you to install it on top of the finished floor. There's always the guy that says I've been doing this for 30 years but doesn't actually live in the house for 30 years to know that it leaked through the floor because they put it on the subfloor.
There are a couple methods: You can saw it flush with floor and install a regular 'old-school' type ring flange over the top, OR..... You could saw flush with the floor and cut and chisel out the pieces, and put another one like this one in. Here's a video that might give you a ball-park idea:th-cam.com/video/XpJAsRaKKeE/w-d-xo.html
I have the same question. With a 3” pipe and spigot flange the bottom doesn’t sit flush to the floor so it sits too high. I just removed old one since it sat too high and trying to put one in only to discover this. Maybe there is a flange out there that would ?
That's the best way to do it, if the floor is in before the flange. otherwise, it's a close guess. I always side on setting lower, rather than higher. You can always buy a jumbo ring or spacers if a little low. But a flange set too high will cause the toilet to rock.
I bought mine from a local plumbing store. I don't know where you live, but I imagine you could get it on Amazon or some other online store. It's a very common product. I hope this helped you out. Thanks for watching and commenting my friend
Some idiot glued the toilet to the concrete in a house my mother owned. . So to tile the floor, I used a carbide bit in a jigsaw to fit the tile pieces around the toilet. . Some day, someone is going to need to remove that toilet and the only way to do it is by shattering it.
1. It is usually required by code to glue it. 2. If using a combination PVC and stainless steel ring as shown in this video, then it is not a given that the PVC part will need to be replaced, even if the metal ring does need to be replaced at some later date.
Yes, you can do that too. not "should", but "can". Since both methods are used in modern day building, I actually went to our local plumbing supply store and surveyed plumbers. I also questioned the tile guys too. Unless the flooring is super thick (thicker than laid tile), then the most common answer was to install the flange first, then have the tile guys run the tile up to the edge. (this was way more common). The funny thing was, ALL the tile guys told me to have the flange in first before calling them. If you have significantly raised flooring, then use a spacer.
The toilet flange needs to be on top of the finished floor. Meaning the bottom edge of the flange needs to be on the same plane as the toilet. So if your toilet sits on the tile, the flange needs to be on top of the tile too.
Thanks, Russell for your opinion!
It's not an opinion, he stated the correct way to install correcting your error.
Good to know!
I just refloored my bathroom and I wasn't sure if I was going to have to step the flange down any.
This is what i was looking for in that video... thank you...
The flange sits on top of the finished floor height
Primer does not only clean the fitting/pipe surfaces, but it also sightly softens the surfaces to be mated together. So yes, both surfaces should get primer. And the primer does not need to be completely dry before glue is put on.
thanks for the tip
It’s guys like you that make home ownership much easier. Thank you for your time and dedication sir 🤙🤙🤙
You bet! Thanks for watching and commenting
This is by far the best, short and effective video...easy, clear and straight to the point. TH-cam, hire this guy as the only approved videos presenter and block all others!
Thank you sir. I would take out the flush noise at end as it made me deaf for 3 minutes!
THANKS for the positive feedback! And yes.... I probably shouldn't have put the flushing noise in their, but sometimes I get a little bored with my own narration and I kind of "rebel"..HA! Thanks again for taking the time to comment!
Excellent info and tutorial. But I and many pro's would first finish the floor around the white PCV pipe. And then cut the pipe flush with new floor and the install flange. Good video.
Yes. There are 2 ways to do this for sure. Before I made this video, I wanted to get several opinions from different plumbers. In my local poll, and to my surprise, every single plumber said to finish the floor after, as long as the flooring was regular height tile and nothing unusually thick. The flooring guy said the same thing. You’re the 2nd comment I’ve gotten that that does it the other way. Most folks like me, don’t want to drill through tile and chance cracking it. Better to use a spacer if the tile ends up too high. But like I said, either way for sure, thanks for the comment.
@@PhilCrockett Great video thanks, but also confirming the kid's method is the better way to go. As long as you're the one who set the tile in a well spread mortar bed, there shouldn't be any issues drilling through the tiles whatsoever. In fact, they will give your tapcons a more sure grab as concrete is often inconsistent when mixed and poured, leaving the drilled holes susceptible to crumbling interiors.
Also, I recommend cleaning and priming the soil stack just before the flange goes in, as well as giving the flange a quarter turn while it's being inserted. Every weak link I've ever seen in the pvc chain is an under-glued joint. Not that yours was, but I never take chances when it costs pennies and only takes a few seconds. Best of luck, and thanks again for the video!
No need to tile tight to the soil pipe. Tell the installer to hold tile back the width if the flange ring, then fill with thinset. That way you're not drilling thru tile with your tap cons.
AWESOME VIDEO!!!! Simple, clear, to the point, and step by step!! Fantastic how you mention exactly what you need for tools and hardware!! You made my day a hell of a lot easier Sir!!!
Glad it was helpful, Scott!
This method works PERFECTLY for basement bathrooms. I just completed it exactly as shown in this video on my new basement bathroom and no leaks whatsoever. A regular standard size wax seal worked great. I did not need to buy a thicker wax seal. I also caulked around the toilet but left the rear of the toilet perimeter uncaulked so if there are ever any problems I would see it. make sure you do that if you caulk. Never caulk around the entire toilet (leave the back part uncaulked). Also like he said, make sure you use a metal rimmed flange and not an all plastic/pvc flange. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND his method shown in this video where you put the flange in first and then tile up to it. A+
Thanks for the super awesome comment, Steven!
BTW..... I looked at your main web page and clicked on some of your domains. Good to see a fellow Show-Me State guy doing well. I swear our paths have crossed at some point. I see a lot of similar interests. As a side note, your site: www.Missourimetaldetecting.com is one that I will have to pass on to my friend. He is starting up a metal detecting youtube channel. check it out: th-cam.com/channels/9JfmF1FC4qXpZkv_X2Bd1Q.html
Anyway, Thanks again for watching and commenting. I'll be checking out your www.stevenking.biz site more often.
this is the best video i have seen short and to the point, thanks
Glad you like my video. Thanks!
Rookie here.. but you step step walk through was very clear 👌 thank you very much
You're welcome, Aman! So glad you liked my vid! Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Perfect. This was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
Excellent!!! I wasn't sure how this video would do, but it seems to be helping a lot more people than I figured. Thanks for the positive feedback!
Thnx for keeping the bolts and slots positioned properly, as a remodeler I've had to reposition flanges so many times because some one was too lazy to use a square or tape measure, flushing sound at the end was a nice bonus
THanks for that great comment!
If you caulk the base of toilet only, would it take the place of drilling in bolts. It would leave the toilet in an easier maintenance form?
I don't trust caulking. bolt that sucker to the floor and you won't have any issues.
Excellent video! One of the most articulately explaned videos i've seen!
Wow, thanks!
I agree with Adam. This was perfect, direct to the point, and informational.
Thanks, Lee!
The toilet flush at the end is icing on the cake
Sometimes I get bored with my own voice and need to throw something in there. My kids like it.
the toilet 'flush' was a nice touch on this excellent video!
Thanks Steve! Glad you liked my crazy ending. Thanks again for supporting my channel...... you're the best!
Concise video! Great job!
For the Tapcons, be sure to use the right size concrete drill bit. And be sure to drill deep enough. You don't want the fastener to bottom out before the head pulls down on the stainless ring. Your drill will twist the the Tapcon head right off the bolt shaft. What a mess!
yes indeed, Kevin. In fact....... I have a video on that as well! Here it is.....
th-cam.com/video/Nf0sCYxdd-U/w-d-xo.html
Phil Crockett Thank you.
This was perfectly done. Learned everything i needed. Thank you so much for your clear and organized instructions.
Glad it was helpful, Adam! I hope my other DIY videos are just as useful to you. Thanks for taking the time to comment!
@@PhilCrockett this onewas
I installed the Mansfield Vanquish toilet. It's manual said to make the top of flange level with the finished floor. The first time I installed the flange on top of the finished floor and the toilet rocked/wobbled on the flange because it was too high. And yes, I had the flange screwed down. I reinstalled the flange at the instructed height and it worked perfectly. Every brand is different. Make sure you read the instructions.
YES!!!! AGREE!!!
Glad to see this. So many back and forth comments about installing to cement floor or finished blah blah. I have a concrete floor in my basement and intend on screwing flange right to the floor as shown here because I plan to install this very toilet. Thanks for saving my hours of reading comments. =)
The primer needs to be on both components, unless you only want the cement to reliably stick to one of the pieces. Also, don't let the primer dry. It needs to be wet to bond with the cement and PVC. These are both right on the can, steps 4 and 5.
Nice explanation, good 👍
The flange cap can create a vacuum. Do not leave the towel in between it, as it will slowly get sucked in. Because of this vacuum, I'd be hesitant to leave the cap on for long.
thanks for the tip
Finally someone did a good video thanks. Super helpfull.
No problem, Tom! Glad you stopped by!
Great video, thank you. Obviously this tile job worked perfectly for the flange in this video, but generally, should the tile work be done first around the waste pipe then have the flange installed on top of that? Or does it not matter?
There's a lot of plumbers that will tell you to have the tile in first. My tile guy wanted the flange in first. if it sits too low, you can add spacers, or just simply use a jumbo wax ring.
Finally know how start, thank you!!
You're welcome!
Excellent video. Just what I needed
Glad I could help you out, Kevin. I hope my other videos help me out as well
The best video about toilet flange / thanks
You're welcome, Genaro! Thanks for the positive feedback!
😊 Thanks for the tips. Could the toilet be bolted to comment floor over drain?
Great video, very helpful! I just attempted to replace a toilet in the basement and found out that the PVC flange is cracked on both sides. I was going to replace the entire flange but I realized that there was no screws holding it in, so I think the original owner glued it in but never screwed the flange down.
This is the basement so I'm assuming concrete underneath. So, I will use a flange repair kit (just a metal ring) and screw it down over the original PVC flange so I can avoid attempting to remove that.
I will have to use the masonry bit to drill before the screws and this video showed me how to do that.
Wish me luck! lol
let me know how it went, John Doe!
great vid, i dont like the sharp pvc edges, that happen after the cover comes off, it can scratch the wax or rubber ring? also, shocked you had to go over 2 inches long?
Thanks for watching and commenting, MML1!
This was a big help, thank you.
Great! Thanks for taking the time to give positive feedback!
Hello thanks for the video! The cement around the soil pipe is uneven and is slightly sloped. Do I need to level out the concrete first? Thanks
You could use spacers to do the same thing.
Thanks so much for this video it really helped me out.
You're welcome! I appreciate your positive feedback, Baun!
I never use the metal flange kind. Too many times I have replaced/repaired them because the metal rots away in a relatively short amount of time.
Those metal flanges disappear pretty quick. The products our there are getting better and better! The first toilet I ever did 20 years ago, was in a basement on concrete. There wasn't even a flange. They just hammer drilled a hole and planted an anchor thought the toilet. of course it rusted away and one day the toilet tipped when the subject leaned over to wipe. It was an epic 'wipe-out'! Ask me how I know........
@@PhilCrockett Stainless steel rings are available, although they typically 400 series, stainless which is magnetic and not the highest grade of stainless. Just to be safe, I painted my stainless steel ring with 3 coats of Rust-Oleum High Performance spray paint before installation. The problem with the all-PVC flanges is that after about 10-15 years it tends to get brittle and can break, especially if that is where the flange bolts are attached. Replacing a PVC flange that has been properly glued to the PVC drain pipe can be a nightmare, especially when drain pipe is installed in concrete slab. If the metal flange ring does corrode, it can be replaced while still leaving the PVC portion of the flange still in place.
Here is the replacement stainless steel ring for the above mentioned Oatey flange.
www.amazon.com/Oatey-42778-Grommets-4-Inch-Stainless/dp/B003FX6ED6/
Never use any galvanized steel or zinc coated metal parts around or inside a toilet. Only use stainless steel or solid brass.
@@PhilCrockett, lol! “The subject.” Great video. Thanks.
Thanks for the great video. One question. How did you drill the holes for the Tapcon Concrete Screws (what size)? Thanks again in advance.
Maybe this will help: th-cam.com/video/Nf0sCYxdd-U/w-d-xo.html
Great my builder never screwed mine into the concrete.
Not sure why he didn't.
Easy to use and install.
excellent!
FYI. When he says if you have a 4” pipe then you need a 4” flange is misleading. You actually need a 3” x 4” knockout flange to fit inside the 4” pipe. If you buy a 4” knockout flange it will be too big to fit inside the pipe.
thanks for the tip
I've never understood why you guys use pvc cleaner and glue. When they are used in combination, it is my experience that the 2 pieces are basically welded together, where as if only the glue is used, it's only, well..., "glued". I say this because if you ever have a broken flange, if it is welded, you are pretty much sol, where as if it is only glued, you can at least chip it out to install a new flange. Am I missing something? Other than that, I really enjoyed your vid and gave you a big thumbs up! Thanks!!
Thanks for the thumbs up. sometimes I do things in order to not get more hate mail. If I didn't use the cleaner, I'd never hear the end of it. Glad you liked my vid, Mark!
I'm subscribing this time
THANKS FOR SUBBING!!!!!
The flange is suppose to sit on top of the finished floor no?
Actually, the flange can be installed either way. I took a poll at the local plumbing store to see what everyone does. The majority by far, told me they would install to the concrete since my tile wasn't going to add too much height. Now.... if you have super thick flooring, you don't want the flange below the surface. You can always shim it up with flange spacers. A lot of plumbers will argue for either way, but both ways work.
@@PhilCrockett I don't know why there is so much debate on this subject...I've done it both ways and had problems only with installing directly on the concrete slab and tiling around it. Had leaks galore and needed a special gasket as the wax rings weren't able to seal correctly. But again, it does seem like a lot of people will just put it to the concrete. I will NOT be doing it that way again! To each their own though.
@@tyslink because there no it all that no nothing
Extremely helpful!
Glad it was helpful, Randy!
First, thanks for the video it is a duplicate of my situation with the rough in stub in the basement. Second I need some advice, I want to sit my toilet on the bare concrete floor for now but in some years I might want to lay floor, if I set the flange flush will I have created a nightmare? My toilet upstairs was installed by the builder and it is NOT on top of the floor either and seems just fine. When I install the basement flange can I sit it just a bit higher to accommodate future flooring or is this a bad idea? Any help is appreciated.
well..... the real answer is: 'flush with the floor" if you can. There are spacers and jumbo wax rings for any play otherwise. Hope this helps.
@@PhilCrockett Thanks Phil.
And to all those that say the flange needs to (or must) sit on top of the finished floor; Many times I have pulled up the linoleum and installed ceramic tile that usually comes out even with the top of the toilet flange. It's not a problem. A standard wax rig w/flange will work just fine and there will be no leaks.
I totally agree! In every field I've worked, there are those who have been taught different ways, and they all swear it's the ONLY way. The secret is.......... wait for it...... wait for it......... the secret is.......
they all might be right.
Very through
Thank tou
Phil, as some others have already stated, your installation is not correct and will lead to leaking toilets... being the novice that I am, I watched your video and installed the flange directly to the subfloor and now I’m staring at a flange that is slightly recessed below the tile. I cannot get mad at you of course, this was my laziness and lack of additional research that got me here... but it would kind of you to at the very least put something in the description urging DIYers to set the toilet flange AFF. For anyone reading this who made the same mistake as me, I would suggest the use of the set rite flange extension kit.
Thanks for the input. I checked with multiple plumbers and flooring subs before I did this, and went with their recommendations. The toilet install on this flange went well, and works wonderfully. No leaks, no problems. It all depends on the thickness of the flooring. In this case, I chose to be a little recessed instead of accidentally having the flange above the surface (that cause rocking, and is super hard to redo). If the flange turns out to be too low, then you use a jumbo ring, or spacers like you said. It's very difficult to have a video that covers everyone's specific situation. Most folks probably have the flooring put in first, but my recommendations for plumbers and flooring guy said to do it like the video shows. Thanks for your input, though. My toilet is doing just fine, and if I had to do this all over again, I wouldn't change a thing (in my situation that is). if you can get it as close to level as you can, then that's great,..... but be sure to not go too high.
Thank you very helpful
Glad it helped
Very good information thank you. God/Jesus bless you
Thanks Di Si!
Shouldn't the tile have been installed first since you were at new? That way the flange sits over the tile?
You can install either way, however, the way I show it in my video is how most plumbers do it in new construction. This method has never failed me.
@@PhilCrockett how did you get your drain pipe cut so flush?
I used a sawzall
Good job
THANKS!
wonderful
Thank you! Cheers!
Thank you so much for your video
You're welcome, Erick!
Isn't the metal flange supposed to be on TOP of your finished floor? The rim of the toilet sits on the finished floor, meaning the bottom of the flange should sit on the finished floor. This is shown wrong. This is shown flush with the floor.
Good call. Read the first comment in the video description for an explaination.
If you use cement in the drain pipe, why not use a bit of primer as well? That doesn't make sense to me, as priner ensures a proper bonding of the 2 pipes.
sure. You can use primer. I use it mainly for water pressure lines. We didn't have this stuff in the old days. It's really like most things over-kill. However.... You are correct. use it if you believe in it. Thanks for watching and commenting , Dave!
1:20 my favor toilet flange is all pvc bcz never ever corroded those with metal after few years starting corrosion and toilet start leaking real bad
yes indeed
Very helpfully
Thanks, Kenneth!
Dank nice job
Thanks, Art!
thanks for the great video. what is the name of that flange
Check out my video description for the product. I dropped a link to Amazon
Would I be able to use my Ramset tool to secure the closet flange to the cement instead of Tapcon screws?
I never used ramset so I don't know
I was instructed to NOT let the primer dry before applying the glue??
Here's the truth of it...................... you really don't even need primer if you're using clean pipe. (ssshhhhhh......don't tell the inspector I said that.....) BTW...... let it dry. It's ok.
I have always heard though that the flange should be installed on top of the finish floor not on the subfloor
Yes. However, if the flange is put in before the tile, you;ll have to give it your best guess on how high to raise it. If you raise too high, the toilet will rock. If it's too low, then all you need is a jumbo wax ring which is a common product and works well. When you can, put the flange on top of the finished floor.
@@PhilCrockett ....If you install a "jumbo" wax ring, then I suggest people watch closely for leaks over time. Two of my downstairs bathrooms were installed with the flange too low...on the subfloor....with 3/4" Advantech, thinset, 3/4" Durock, thinset and tile on top. I had no idea that was done....not the first owner. After the wax deteriorated, they leaked, and destroyed the subfloor. If possible, I recommend people make sure that the flange is at least level with the finished floor, if not on top of it.
This is done on purpose to keep home owners from being able to fix it themselves.
yes indeed!
I'm replacing my 4" PVC flange. Can i use the same tapcon holes in the cement foundation or how does that work with lining up the mounting screws for the toilet base?
Find a flange that has different pattern of holes, and drill new spots if you can.
Appreciate the video - well done except you calling it a soil pipe!! 🤣🤣
🤭
Probably one of the better videos I have watched, but the opinion bit/comment above or below or flush should be explained. Someone needs to do a video on this. Is it actually code in some states, why is it code? Why do some people say on top results in leaks and rocking. I would have a hard time believing it would be code anywhere if that is true. I'm not stating an opinion, I just want to know what the acceptable options are.
The answer, will usually be that the flange sits on top of the floor. However, in many new builds, the tile people want the flange already installed. Which makes sense, because you don't want to screw to tile. So... depending on the thickness of your floor, you will have to give it your best guess and use spacers if you think the floor will be too thick. We're talking about a flange that's 3/16" tall. So if it's flush or on top, that's TRULY NOT A BIG DEAL. However, the worse problem is if it's too low below the surface and too high above the surface. The good news about this is they make a Jumbo wax ring that can seal a low set flange. The bad news is, there is not a quick fix for a high set flange. It was a lot easier when bathroom floors were vinyl sheets. ..... no figuring on height, you just simply screw them down (which BTW, sits "on top of the floor"... if that helps. Some plumbers in the 70's didn't even use flanges, they just screwed the toilet to the floor which works, but dumb for many reasons. Anyway...... The real answer is: flange on top, but be careful not to set it too high. The second answer is, flush works fine, as long as it's not too low. Remember, you can always use spacers and jumbo rings if needed. In this video, I didn't need either, and the flange was fairly flush. I have had, and will have no problems. Before doing all of this, I got advice from my plumbers friends at our local plumber supply store where they hang out. Most said flush is safe in the case of tile coming in second, and some said on top guestimating with spacers.... both sides agreed that it was splitting hairs (a 3/16" hair).....
@@PhilCrockett There are special bits designed to drill into ceramic or porcelain tile like the ones in the link below. Usually, one needs to drill deeper into the concrete or wood subfloor that is below the tile. If there is tile on top of concrete, I would use the drill bit below to get through the tile and switch to a masonry bit size specified by the bolt manufacturer (Tapcon, etc). If wood subfloor is below the tile, then obviously just a ordinary wood bit should be used.
www.amazon.com/dp/B000ETWIKM/sr=1-1/qid=1495971979
@@PhilCrockett Thanks for taking the time to reply and the thought!
Thanks for the link Mark! Maybe it will help someone out. I still don't like the idea of drilling through tile. The risk of it cracking increases at those pressure points, but that's just me and my kind of luck. Thanks again for the link!
Oatey, The company that makes these, literally instructs you to install it on top of the finished floor. There's always the guy that says I've been doing this for 30 years but doesn't actually live in the house for 30 years to know that it leaked through the floor because they put it on the subfloor.
How would you replace the flange if it breaks later on?
There are a couple methods: You can saw it flush with floor and install a regular 'old-school' type ring flange over the top, OR.....
You could saw flush with the floor and cut and chisel out the pieces, and put another one like this one in. Here's a video that might give you a ball-park idea:th-cam.com/video/XpJAsRaKKeE/w-d-xo.html
@@PhilCrockett 👍
A little difficult with a 3” pipe, right? I assume you have to chisel out the concrete?
If you have 3", then just use the standard brass flange and screw it to the floor.
I have the same question. With a 3” pipe and spigot flange the bottom doesn’t sit flush to the floor so it sits too high. I just removed old one since it sat too high and trying to put one in only to discover this. Maybe there is a flange out there that would ?
Do you still have to use a gasket on this style flange?
?.... wax ring.
I wouldn't glue it. I just screw it to the floor. And leave extra play for my bolts so when I install my toilet I can have some play.
sounds good to me. There's more than one way to skin a cat!
What size of reciprocating blade did you use to cut it?
Not sure the size. just get one longer than the diameter of the pipe.
@@PhilCrockett got a 12 in one should do the trick!
yes!
Correct one
yes
Isn’t the flange supposed to sit on top of the floor?
That's the best way to do it, if the floor is in before the flange. otherwise, it's a close guess. I always side on setting lower, rather than higher. You can always buy a jumbo ring or spacers if a little low. But a flange set too high will cause the toilet to rock.
I had to take a soil about half way thru.
I'm soiling right now!
@@PhilCrockett lol good video, i gotta do this tmrw
Let me know how it 'works out' for you.
My concrete floor is not flush. Any suggestions on how to get it flush?
Do you mean "level"?
Yes. The floor is not level so the flange does not sit flush. On one side it is flush and the other side I can fit my index finger under the flange.
Yes. The floor is not level so the flange does not sit flush. On one side it is flush and the other side I can fit my index finger under the flange.
PVC cement unless you are using ABS.
nice tip, Paul!
Don’t use the one with the metal ring they rot
there needs to be a better quality flange made. I have not found one yet that lasts as long as I wish.
Where can i get this flange ?
I bought mine from a local plumbing store. I don't know where you live, but I imagine you could get it on Amazon or some other online store. It's a very common product. I hope this helped you out. Thanks for watching and commenting my friend
No need for bowl wax?
wax ring?
@@PhilCrockett I think they're the same..the thing place between the bowl and the flange.
Ok...Yes! when you install a toilet, you will need a wax ring. I have a couple toilet install videos if you need to see this done.
@@PhilCrockett thanks
you bet! Any time!
👍👍👍!!
glad you like, Raul!
What if the center is 16”
hmmmm........
Has anyone ever had a code officer check hiw the primer was installed on the soil pipe?
not if it's DIY.......LOL
Grout around flange right way
alrighty
Use a wax free seal and it does not matter if flange is above or below
interesting..... never heard of it, or used it.
@@PhilCrockett It's a big rubber O-ring Phil,it seals the water closet from leakage
But how to remove the flange?
unscrew it
What is the height for the soil pipe??
I cut it flush to the floor.
Thanks
You're Welcome!
It should be installed to finish floor grade not sub floor grade.
ok
谢谢
别客气
Some idiot glued the toilet to the concrete in a house my mother owned.
.
So to tile the floor, I used a carbide bit in a jigsaw to fit the tile pieces around the toilet.
.
Some day, someone is going to need to remove that toilet and the only way to do it is by shattering it.
HA!!! I had an old toilet one time that was held down only by the wax ring and caulking.
But he didn’t prime the pipe why
He knows that priming a pipe that has no pressure is a useless cost of buying primer.
I am not a pro but I know one thing,I would not of glued the flange down to the 4" drain line..that flange will need to be replaced in the future..
I've got a video for that as well: th-cam.com/video/XpJAsRaKKeE/w-d-xo.html
1. It is usually required by code to glue it.
2. If using a combination PVC and stainless steel ring as shown in this video, then it is not a given that the PVC part will need to be replaced, even if the metal ring does need to be replaced at some later date.
What brand and style flange was that?
Oatey brand
@@PhilCrockett Thanks. I paused the video and blew it up and figured it out. Thanks for the video. Great information.
Good deal. Thanks for watching and commenting, Scott!
No glue
yes glue
tap cons dont want to be hammered.
they sure don't
Flange should of been installed on top of the tile finished floor
Yes, you can do that too. not "should", but "can". Since both methods are used in modern day building, I actually went to our local plumbing supply store and surveyed plumbers. I also questioned the tile guys too. Unless the flooring is super thick (thicker than laid tile), then the most common answer was to install the flange first, then have the tile guys run the tile up to the edge. (this was way more common). The funny thing was, ALL the tile guys told me to have the flange in first before calling them. If you have significantly raised flooring, then use a spacer.
No good need to be on top of tile finish floor
Thanks for wanting to learn how to do this by watching my video. Read the comments to explain your question. Thanks again, Rennie!