GEARBOX REPAIRED - How to AVOID Fifth Gear DAMAGE in Fiat Ducato Motorhome
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2022
- A few weeks ago we lost fifth gear in the gearbox of our 1998 Hymer B564 based on a Fiat Ducato 2.5D motorhome. Since then we've had it replaired and I'm going to explain what went wrong and how you can avoid the same problem.
Transmission Services
www.transmission-services.co.uk/
FIAT DUCATO 2.5 / 2.8 DIESEL COMPLETE 5TH GEAR KIT 35 / 58 TEETH 1994 - 2002
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1821482049...
Coastal Motorhomes
coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/
Or call them for expert advice (not just Hymers or Fiat) on (+44) 01202978554
Use the voucher code HERMAN to get a 10% discount.
Our 1998 Hymer B564 is based on a Fiat Ducato chassis with 2..5D engine.
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mer B564 is based on a Fiat Ducato chassis. We’ll be replacing the front brake calipers and pads in this video.
#vanlife
My man said exactly the same thing... as our vans are near maximum weight all the time don't change up too soon. 👍
The 2.8TD can pull itself up hill on idle in fifth which is not good for it - forgot to mention that, PK 😩
Congratulations glad you got it fixed and by a expert who was a lucky find.
Thanks MrFHLH. I'm not sure it was luck really. Chas had a long chat with before hand and got the impression that this guy knows his stuff.
@@HermanHitstheRoad well done Chas
Really good to hear the cause of our 5th gear problems from an expert , i had heard that short shifting might cause small issues , but now I'm much better informed , thanks Ads and happy motoring 👍😎
Thanks Mark. Yes, short shifting is a term for it too, same thing.
I had that problem too in my old Hobby 600 motorhome that had a 2.5l engine and when it was fixed the gearbox was filled up with fully Synthetic oil which I was told that it was a lot better for the gearbox, and it really was a fantastic drive afterwards, so smooth. Glad you got Herman fixed now looking forward to seeing more vlogs. 👍😎
Hahah, thanks Paul. He recommended Semi synthetic 75W90
Great tip about the 50 mph shift change! The gearbox in our 2008 Hymer went last Oct. It’s a 6 speed but the same principle applies no doubt. Only had it 6 months when it happened with 178k on the clock and had only done about 4,000 km since getting it - but then again am not sure what kind of driving it was subjected to by the previous owner. All good now but wasn’t cheap and still a bit stiff putting into reverse. Am very mindful of the 50 mph (80kph) tip now so I appreciate that.
Thanks The Irish Megaphone. I'm glad you found the video useful 👍👍🥰
Great info again, thanks. Had a ‘96 Hymer 584 till recently and changed the front suspension struts after watching you and Chas. Re: gearbox expert ; love meeting these people, a dying breed !!!
Thanks John. It's good to know folks find my videos useful
Brilliant explanation Ads, well done........see, things are already 'gearing' up nicely for a cracking 2023.
Oh but Fred, Herman has in the garage again and this time it's expensive 😫
Thanks though 👍👍
Good to see you have now got your gear on and your balls have not fallen out . . .
Haha thanks Sleepy Cat 👍👍
Brilliant info. Thanks for sharing 👍
My pleasure, Peter. 👍👍
Well done, interesting.
Cheers Bake been. We're glad you enjoyed it 👍
Cool! Thank you for sharing!
Thanks for watching, @RGSTR 👍👍. I'm glad you enjoyed the video
Awesome video thank you
Thanks. We're glad you enjoyed the video, Hornetboy36 👍👍👍
Interesting stuff, hopefully that's it with the repairs for a while!
Me too, Alex 👍👍
Not if it's a Fiat based vehicle it isn't.
I know your pain.
I have a fiat 2.8jtd & 300 miles after buying the motorhome the 5th gear went. Out came the gearbox & a 100mile trip to a gearbox company & they checked the gearbox over & the gears & changed 5th gear.
The boxs went back in & about 15 months later 5th gear stopped working & 4th gear was screaming 🤔 out came the gearbox again & sent off to A1 gearboxes
They changed all the internal parts & found & fixed a hole in the casing 🤔
The gearbox came back & the garage told me they had given me a new / different gearboxe 🤔😲
But on checking the numbers stamped in the box it was the same box but it looked brand new 😁
A1 gearbox picked up the box did all the work & sent it back with in 3 weeks & it cost me £2000.
I know your pain
Ouch, Yan. Ouch
I'm sorry to hear that ☹
I hope it's running well now?
@@HermanHitstheRoad I was told that the Las owner of my motorhome didn't want till he was doing 50mph before going into 5th gear & put 5th gear under a lot of pressure 🤔 then when the gearbox went off for the second time I was told do not use 5th gear till you are at 50mph or more.
Good advice for anyone with a early fiat ducato with the add on 5th gear.
I was also told be gentle when coming off the clutch & that will help the gears as well.
You have to treat 5 gear as a overdrive
I've come to realise that now, John 👍👍👍
Your channel continues to be an amazing source of information. Thank you so much for putting this together and sharing it. You should put a Patreon up so that people like me can donate a little bit each month it'll add up and you could maybe then afford even a 6th gear.
So are you saying that a preventative method to avoid the 5th gear wearing out might be to open up the box before it goes and flip that ring around? I'm asking because I'm heading to Morocco where they're good mechanics but they're lacking parts. If I found a mechanic that I felt like I could trust I might have them just open it up and flip that ring around. Mine is a 1996 with 150,000 km. Since I've had it from 80k I was sure to always rev it up high before I put it into 5th. I've got the 2.5 TDI really there was not enough power to put it into fifth unless you really revved it up high.
Thanks so much, Matthew 👍
If you loose 5th gear then flipping over the ring could fix the problem. I wouldn't worry about it until it does go though. It sounds like you are driving it as you should anyway. You might want to find out what gear you need and a place where you can order the parts from, just in case
@@HermanHitstheRoad Thank you.
On this subject... do you know whether or not it is recommended to change the gearbox oil? I'm pretty sure the same lube is in there going all the way back to the Smashing Pumpkins being the hit on the radio. I've noticed lately that the shifting seems a bit stiffer.
Oops well I've answered my own question.. or rather 1kenobitoby has answered it. th-cam.com/video/WjTGKbcvbUQ/w-d-xo.html. So I'll check that first. Most likely that's it.. just a little bit seized up with a rusty linkage.
I had the synco mesh go on 4 th gear on a car that had just gone out of Warranty, it would thrown it out of gear, but could get it to go in at the second try (most of the time). I have done a bit of work on gear boxes over the years. mainly on Ford Escorts when the reverse selector spring would break leaving you without reverse.
You must know about gearboxes then, Digger Buckett? 👍👍
I've found out that I need to be doing over 2500 revs in fourth to nearly 50mph before the 2.8 litre engine will power on in 5th gear and this is purely because it's fully loaded.
Excellent video and well done for someone who claims to know nothing about gearboxes.
Wondering how many out takes it took to do the video ?
Thanks, Das. I'm not sure what you mean by "how many outtakes". It was filmed as one shot 🤥🤪
@@HermanHitstheRoad
Then you did an excellent job remembering what you learned about the gearbox.
Bravo
That’s very interesting and great to know because sometimes I go into 5th just after 40mph. Thanks for sharing Ray K UK 🇬🇧 YNWA
You're welcome, Ray. Glad you enjoyed the video 👍👍
It's a known issue because of this. I never let mine labour in 5th, better to drop to 4th and have some revs.
That's what I'm doing now, Mark. It's difficult though. Everything tells me to change gear sooner
@@HermanHitstheRoad That's true. These older diesels do seem to like a few more revs when compared with modern stuff. I find mine seems happier rather than labouring as you can almost feel the torque doing wrong thing in the gearbox! haha
@@markburton8303 being doing that a lot mainly up hills on motorways
Really useful video to see it all up close. Thanks. Could you hold the gear lever in gear and it would drive and stay in gear?
Thanks therabster. We're glad you found it useful. I could hold the gear into 5th but I could feel it trying to pop out. I could drive it but I was concerned that I was making things worse.
Apparently the 5th gear fails a lot more on motorhomes than the vans as they are lugging around much more weight.
Yes, that's right and commercial vans tend to be be thrashed which helps the gear
Thanks. More great info! Can you remind us how many miles you had on the old box before this happened please? Just interested as I have a Ducato of the same age ... 🙁
Herman has now done 112k miles, Tommo. We're glad you found the video useful 👍👍
@@HermanHitstheRoad thanks mate. Mines only done 48k so I've got some miles to go yet 😉 Good to know though
Had our 5th gear "Pop" twice now on 2.9 Fiat Ducato 2002, first time put Motorhome off the road for 6 weeks, sending gears back and forth to Italy, second time got the new 5th gear overnight on e-bay from a company in Southport, Lancs. spoke on phone with them and they said to get the Gearbox type number off front of gearbox for the right gear set-up, 5 mins on the floor infront of van and I had the numbers required, rub sandpaper across front lower edge of gearbox and a wipe of oil and there was needed number.
Thanks for the info, Ray. I've never seen the numbers. I'll take a look when I'm next under there.
Now you have the box sorted are you doing the (slightly overfill) the gearbox oil trick? Or did gearbox guru advise against it.
I forgot to ask, Paul but I would have thought he'd have mentioned it when we were talking about what oil to use.
Love the Zoe stand in Ads!!😂😂
Haha, I knew someone would like it. Thanks Johnny 😊 👍👍
The thing is. Too low rpm’s in fifth will starve the gear of oil as the gear sits outside the gearbox and relies on enough rpm’s to "fling” or carry the oil over to the gear.
Hitting 50 is irrelevant, high enough rpm’s before putting a load on the gear is the fix.
Thanks for the info, @kjartanbeate 👍👍
I am told that the fifth gear can be replaced with one of a higher ratio and it does not require a gearbox strip down as the fifth gear is at the side of the box and risibly accessible. Also Swift have the standard box and Autotrail have the modified box. I would be interested to know if this it 100% correct.
The fifth gear can be replaced while it is still attached to the engine. You just have to remove the cover. It'll take 1 to 2 hours to replace.
I don't know about the other points you make, @donaldtrumpton6252
I've never heard of going into 5th too soon as causing wear (snubbing) to the syncro engagement teeth, could you have misunderstood when he said 'too quickly' might he have meant too fast or too aggressive ? Back from developing syncronisers we'd see that most drivers don't give them time to work and shift so quickly between gears, and as you pointed out, would be in top gear way too soon, because lets face it thats when it's most economical (is the common thinking). I know on some cars 5th is essentially an add on to a 4spd transmission, so issues have arisen with poor lubrication and worn bearings causing excessive play on that shaft and resulting in 5th popping out when under load.
Thanks for commenting, Keith Riley. No, I didn't misunderstand him. The problem is that because of the location of the 5th gear oil doesn't get up there to lubricate it and changing too early causes more torque on those teeth. The lack of oil in our gearbox wasn't the issue. The wear on the teeth was wear and tear based on my driving.
@@HermanHitstheRoad Fair enough 👍
hi iv got the old box 2000 1.9 motorhome did the clutch and dropped the gear box oil to find water in there changed it out and all seemed good but on startup its now got a rattle until you rev it or turn of and on again! all gears work and don’t jump out etc any idea on what it can be? oil is correct level and type for the box
Hmmm, sorry I have no idea, @user-bn5kr1wd4d. Are you sure the rattle is coming from the gearbox? What is the most obvious thing it could be? Have you tightened all the fixings? The puzzling part is that it stops if you on/off it
@@HermanHitstheRoad thanks fixed it now apparently they added a 5th gear to a 4 gear motor and has to be topped up a extra 750 ml to get it to splash that gear, running normal now thanks
Possibly labouring for too long in 5th can be an issue too?
That's right, Vintage Vantics same thing. Thank for commenting
Thanks for workshop video lovly Hello from Lolland Denmark xpost Bjarne ♨️🚍🔩⚙️🔧⚙️🛠🇬🇧🇩🇰
Thanks Bjarne and hello to Lolland, we're glad you enjoyed the video 👍 👍😃
A gear has always a pair (at least) on an other shaft. The other one is its counterpart to which it connects
Do you mean the synchromesh gear, Dávid?
@@HermanHitstheRoad No, I mean the 2nd gear at 2:28. The right position is at 2:32 on the other, parallel shaft. The simple one is on the end of the main shaft, the gear with synchro is on the end of the counter shaft in this Ducato gearbox.
Got ya, thanks 👍
Any idea how to change the gearbox oil on your motorhome? I'd like to change mine.
We sure do, Matthew. We've recently filmed that. Watch from 13 mins th-cam.com/video/L_Z8FnOTEu8/w-d-xo.html
@@HermanHitstheRoad I read on a forum that there are 16 variations of the gearbox for the 2.5 ducatos!
So I think I have the same sensor plug. But how did you get the old gearbox oil out? I've got something looking like maybe an 8mm square female near the bottom. Rusty as all get out.
I have a this manual in German and they talk about 3 different gearboxes. The ME5TU, ML5TU, and MG5TU. Any idea which yours is? They have drawings of each but I can't work out what I have.
Only marking is a sticker that clearly says BVU 251. If you search for MG5TU (the one I think i might have) and BVU 251, you land on pages that seem like the radiation that is at the edge of the Universe. I think I may have found the end of the Internet with that.
At the lowest point of the gearbox is the drain plug.
@@HermanHitstheRoad I made a short clip where I film what I think you are talking about. Could you have a look? th-cam.com/video/GkvJDHbqhJc/w-d-xo.html. Thank you! Also in there is a bolt at the front that could be used for filling?
Sorry, Matthew YT blocked your comment and I've only just seen it.
Yes, that is the gearbox oil drain plug. I don't know what the one on the front of the gearbox is.
Do you have a contact for your gearbox repair man? We are limping home in 4th gear from France to Wales via Portsmouth. Hope he can repair ours!
I'm sorry to hear that, @03timm. I got Transmission Services in Guildford to do it. They did it without taking the gearbox out. I bought the parts but I'm sure they can do that for you.
www.transmission-services.co.uk/
Let me know how you get on 👍👍
@@HermanHitstheRoad many thanks Ads, I will try them
Helo kan du hjelper mig med 5 gær sider fast de er sfert at skifter autocamper fiat ducato 2.5 årg 1991
Hi @naimmiftari959, we get most of our spare parts from Coastal Motorhomes in the UK. Buy online coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/
Or call them for expert advice (not just Hymers or Fiat) on (+44) 1202978554
Use the voucher code HERMAN to get 10% discount.
"Hymer based on Fiat", you surely know that F. I A T. stands for Fix It Again Tony., in Australia I've never heard of a dependable Fiat......ever.
🤣 I've not heard that one before, Mr Wyatt. Very good 🤣
Wait, people go faster than 50?
Only on Tuesdays, Andreas
@@HermanHitstheRoad hahaha :D
I understand your gearbox (single drain plug) has a capacity of 2.7lt of SAE 75W-90.
For additional protection of the oil-starved 5th gear, it is recommended to overfill the gearbox via the reversing switch on top of the gearbox. This entails removing the large rubber hose from the air filter to the turbo and unscrewing the 17mm plastic switch. Now there is loads of information about the frequency of change, but almost nothing about capacity. The only mention I have seen is to add to the 2.7lt, another 700ml for a total of 3.4lt. Can anybody confirm the recommended total fill capacity when overfilling for 5th gear longevity, please?
Hi Steve, thanks for the info. We did overfilled the gearbox like you described. We added 2.8 litres. However, we've had a garage sort out a gearbox problem for us and I don't know how much they've put in. But I now always drive up to 50mph in 4th and then change gear until everything is warm
Actually it could be replaced easily in maximum 1 h on your driveway.
I did look into it, @parguth327. It would take 2 hours and we weren't prepared to dive into the gearbox with the possibility of messing it up.
@@HermanHitstheRoad Well it took me less than an hour.
Pointless video
Problem, faulty gearbox
Remedy ,get it fixed or rebuilt at gearbox workshop
No video required
Thanks for your opinion, Al. I'm glad you enjoyed the video
@@HermanHitstheRoad
Yeah 😂
Let us know next time you cant fix something and make a pointless video
I will get the whole family round to watch it, or sell tickets ,rent a venue with a large screen
A pointless video with a pointless comment
@Big Al’s motorhome - The Tip regarding 50mph and gearing up too soon was quite informative - so you are wrong Big Al, it wasn’t pointless at all. I’d say it must have been the first time Big Al you were ever wrong in your life.
@@TheIrishMegaphone
Oh my im heart broken