@@renafox4481 God help us. In spite of the Sorkin's brilliant writing, this was a democratic fantasy. After the disgrace that is the last 15 years of the Democrat Party, a reboot of this show would be a joke.
I'd favour a continuation of TWW with an independent President taking place after Bartlet's, Santos' , and Vinick's terms in office. This leader would be dealing with dem Senate majority leader Sam Seaborn and his wife, rep House Speaker Ainsley Hayes-Seaborn. I picture this series to be what I feel "Designated Survivor" should've been before the show went off the deep end.
@@duncanwebb9450 Ainsley would probably take his name and not hyphenate. Being Southern and conservative, tradition would be very important to her and she would not see taking her husband’s name as degrading in any way.
@@srednivashtar5432 Slightly misleading. America had the Army Air Force (USAAF) which became the USAF. And the Naval, Marine, and Coast Guard aviation during WWII.
the funny thing is that Sam is supposed to be this great speechwriter, or ' freak' as he is later called... but all the amazing things he wrote were really written by Sorkin. This isn't like a show where someone is famed to be a great athlete or doctor or whatever... they actually had to show Sam's genius at writing.
One of the ways Sorkin helps create that illusion is by shortening the time and effort it takes Sam to come up with words. In the "freak" scene you refer to, for example, Sam is supposed to have come up with those remarks "on the way over, in the car"; in reality it probably took Sorkin days if not weeks to come up with them, and multiple redrafts.
Which means when characters call Sam a genius, Sorkin is actually calling himself a genius. One of several reasons it's a little hard to like Sam as much as Sorkin and Lowe want him to be liked.
@@jerodast you’re overthinking it Yes, Sam is a written character and a lot goes into him. Doubtful Sorkin knows everything that Sam “knows” off the cuff. There’s research and drafts then the final product that so many of us like. I don’t think Sorkin is writing this just to call himself a genius
It's kind of a moon shot reference. A politician says "we will go to the moon, because it is hard", and they did it! With that said, that was a technological push, with science to back it up; finding cures for disease is a scientific push, with technology to back it up. Tinkering towards a goal is probably easier than finding a secret about the world that nobody's ever found before.
Historical accuracy is not a strong suit of the show. Reference CJ talking about the battle of the bulge in her "Women of Qumar" tantrum. Some estimates have that frame count much higher. It wasn't idealism that won WW2. We were an industrial juggernaut on a leash. Great Britain outproduced Germany in every major arms except for tanks and they came close to that as well.
I never got why exactly Sam was mad at Lisa. He was the one who broke of the engagement to go work for Bartlett. He makes some comment about not being "celebrity enough" or some such for her, but it was BS and she said as much. Does he feel guilty for abandoning her?
@@Tim.GsyBloke I know. Just disappointing. I refuse to pay for a treatment that doesn't result in a cure. And yes, I am dealing with such a problem now. I've chosen to risk death rather than continue treatments. In my case, it will be a race to see if a tumor flares up and blinds me while killing my brain - or it spreads to cause fibrosis around my aorta or shuts down my kidneys.
"all [100] of them are caused by something different". I don't think that's true or relevant. Cancer is abnormal cells growth resulting in tumors. I want these cells destroyed, I don't really care what "caused" them to switch to abnormal growth. So what if radiation from my cellphone caused them?
Sam Seaborn was the heart of that ensemble that ran the day to day for Jed Bartlett. Why TPTB ever decided to drop Rob Lowe denies reason. I never ever liked Will Bailey. He hadn’t been through it all; slogging through the trenches to get to the White House. He was the new kid, and drug his step-sister along. Just...strange. Sam was my boy.
I think it was Rob Lowe that pulled the plug. As I have heard the story, initially TWW was going to have him as the main character and he was paid a salary to reflect that and the fact he was probably the most known actor (excluding Martin Sheen - who was meant to have a much smaller role). However the show became more of an ensemble and the other actors’ salaries increased to reflect this, but Rob Lowe’s didn’t or increased less so. I think he left because it was sort of a pay dispute Edit He said he didn’t feel respected when the others got a pay raise and he didn’t.
@@brontewcat Rob Lowe cut his rate to take the show. When the rest of the cast banded together to get their raise, the studio didn't do the same with his as they had already been playing him more than the others. This, asking with friction behind the scenes spelled the end of Sam on the show. There's more to the story that I can't remember off the top of my head, but check out The West Wing Weakly Podcast for the rest. They interview Rob Lowe while going through the first season.
TPTB didn't pull the plug on Rob Lowe, Rob Lowe did. He got further and further sidelined in a show that was initially written to have him as the main character.
He was forced into the show by the network brass who began dictating how much airtime his portion of the scripts should be and it's part of why Sorkin himself left the show. Sorkin thought The Newsroom would be different and with his track record the same antics wouldn't occur but of course they did and he said he won't do TV anymore after the Newsroom...
All I hear, all I see, all day, every day now, when I watch The West Wing, is Aaron Sorkin's voice. Everyone sounds like Sorkin, all the time. Very difficult to distinguish- the bad guys are always room temperature IQ.
I think that is one of the greatest challenges for good authorship: how to create distinct characters. And another challenge: how to create compelling antagonists. For the first, I've actually considered playing around with machine learning models used for author identification to see if they can be coerced into "translating" my writing into multiple different "voices". For the second challenge, I think Arnold Vinick is a good example of doing it right: a smart character who genuinely believes what he clams and who can engage in inelegant discourse with people who disagree with him, not just a paper caricature of an ideology the writers oppose (without actually bothering to understand), who just screams catch phrases at anyone different than them. To do that well in a story like this, the authors need to actually understand the views of both the protagonists and antagonists, they need to write them so that the audience sees both as rationally persuing a goal that is seen as reasonable. Done masterfully, the audience will be sympathetic to *both* sides, wanting both to succeed, and thus be troubled by knowing that that is impossible, that for one to succeed, the other must fail. I think that is why antagonists are so often "bad guys", villains; it's so much easier to write for opponents where the audience is supposed to hate them, even despise them. Where their motives are so reprehensible that the whole audience says "thank God that's not me" (and then secretly hopes that's really true).
@@benjaminshropshire2900 Vinick was also written as elegantly as he was *after* Sorkin had left the show, so it didn't surprise me in the least that they generated a Republican candidate that wasn't a total Bush-Lite farce.
If only the people who actually work in white house were anywhere near that smart, rather than the petty, shallow, vindictive, unfeeling, unthinking people who really are.
We don't vote for "smart." We vote for whomever gives the best raw meat soundbytes. If "smart" won elections rather than "Lock her up!" and "Build that wall!" then we'd be getting smart candidates.
Traylor Howard looks like a woman I went to college with. She was a Chemical Engineering major and was in my Dynamics class. She got up in a huff and left class never to come back except for exams. God, she was brilliant and didn’t suffer fools. She married another friend of mine. Jeeze, I should check in on them.
Because there was no reason to keep it. As beautiful as it is, it was just another part of a speech that was ultimately scrapped. At least, that is the narrative and the point of the story.
Actually the Air Force was part of the Army back then as the United States Army Air Forces. The Airborne were the paratroopers, then and now part of the army.
I'd like to think that Big Pharma wouldn't do that, but we're talking about an industry that profits on misery, an industry that changes a drug for a tablet to a capsule so they can get 17 more years of patent protections.
@@stevechance150 and that's what they would do with a cancer cure - make the cure expensive and make sure they kept the patent. Improvements that lead to fewer side effects also get you money. I'm a researcher in this field and I know some of the industry players and the attempts to seek a cure are not cynical, they are heartfelt and genuine. There's still more than enough profit to be made. Just because you're "cured" of cancer once doesn't mean you can't get it again, and with increasing frequency the longer you live.
You're right. Lowe could never get over the fact that the original intentions for the role changed and that Richard and Brad and Alison and Martin were just doing far more interesting things with the material than he was and inspiring Aaron more. It's a shame that he never learnt to be part of the team and accept that he wasn't *The* star.
![[안방1열 풀캠4K] 베이비몬스터 'FOREVER' (BABYMONSTER FullCam)│@SBS Inkigayo 240707](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_2HL-ogzzBU/mqdefault.jpg)
Sam is president Bartlet's idealist. Toby is his moral center. C.J. is his compassion. Josh is his ambition. And Leo is his walking stick
The ultimate American idealist! Loves the military, loves war, loves the rich, hates the poor.
and charlie is his heart
That's why when they showed the future, Bartlett had a regular walking stick, because Leo wasn't around anymore.
@@ClarinoI At that point he'd also lost (and I guess partially regained) Toby, and Sam.
This was excellently put
Saddest moment, when Sam decides to hit delete, instead of “archive”.... 😞
Back in the day you paid by the floppy disk
Aaron sorkin is the king of dialogue scenes
too many "yea's," but I agree
What was edited out at the end of this video is Sam hitting CTRL-Z getting back all that text he just "deleted."
And then CTRL-A and setting font to comic sans
Please re-boot The West Wing with a President Seaborn.
I’d watch that... as long as Sorkin writes it.
They're working on it!
@@renafox4481 God help us.
In spite of the Sorkin's brilliant writing, this was a democratic fantasy.
After the disgrace that is the last 15 years of the Democrat Party, a reboot of this show would be a joke.
I'd favour a continuation of TWW with an independent President taking place after Bartlet's, Santos' , and Vinick's terms in office. This leader would be dealing with dem Senate majority leader Sam Seaborn and his wife, rep House Speaker Ainsley Hayes-Seaborn. I picture this series to be what I feel "Designated Survivor" should've been before the show went off the deep end.
@@duncanwebb9450 Ainsley would probably take his name and not hyphenate. Being Southern and conservative, tradition would be very important to her and she would not see taking her husband’s name as degrading in any way.
Here is Sam’s dress rehersal for the presidency
Between January of 1940 and August of 1945, the United States manufactured 300,317 military aircraft.
It didn’t, however, have an Air Force, with the USAF not forming as an independent service until 1947.
@@srednivashtar5432 Lowercase air force I guess :)
@@srednivashtar5432 Slightly misleading. America had the Army Air Force (USAAF) which became the USAF. And the Naval, Marine, and Coast Guard aviation during WWII.
@@eddietat95 so, what you’re saying is that the USA didn’t have an Air Force in WW2 then...
@@srednivashtar5432 Army Air Force is upper case Air Force...
the funny thing is that Sam is supposed to be this great speechwriter, or ' freak' as he is later called... but all the amazing things he wrote were really written by Sorkin. This isn't like a show where someone is famed to be a great athlete or doctor or whatever... they actually had to show Sam's genius at writing.
The Galileo 5 speech does that.
One of the ways Sorkin helps create that illusion is by shortening the time and effort it takes Sam to come up with words. In the "freak" scene you refer to, for example, Sam is supposed to have come up with those remarks "on the way over, in the car"; in reality it probably took Sorkin days if not weeks to come up with them, and multiple redrafts.
The west wing had 25+ writers.
Which means when characters call Sam a genius, Sorkin is actually calling himself a genius. One of several reasons it's a little hard to like Sam as much as Sorkin and Lowe want him to be liked.
@@jerodast you’re overthinking it
Yes, Sam is a written character and a lot goes into him. Doubtful Sorkin knows everything that Sam “knows” off the cuff. There’s research and drafts then the final product that so many of us like. I don’t think Sorkin is writing this just to call himself a genius
Having some politician saying we want to cure cancer isn't the hard part.
It's kind of a moon shot reference. A politician says "we will go to the moon, because it is hard", and they did it! With that said, that was a technological push, with science to back it up; finding cures for disease is a scientific push, with technology to back it up. Tinkering towards a goal is probably easier than finding a secret about the world that nobody's ever found before.
That moment you realize Rob Lowe and Patrick Dempsey have the exact same voice.
Rob Lowe was initially going to Derek Shepherd but he refused and Patrick got the role. They both have that idealist McDreamy charm working for them.
The only problem with what Sam said is the US didn't produce 100,,000 planes. It produced almost 350,000 planes.
Historical accuracy is not a strong suit of the show. Reference CJ talking about the battle of the bulge in her "Women of Qumar" tantrum. Some estimates have that frame count much higher. It wasn't idealism that won WW2. We were an industrial juggernaut on a leash. Great Britain outproduced Germany in every major arms except for tanks and they came close to that as well.
I never got why exactly Sam was mad at Lisa. He was the one who broke of the engagement to go work for Bartlett. He makes some comment about not being "celebrity enough" or some such for her, but it was BS and she said as much. Does he feel guilty for abandoning her?
I wonder if whomever wrote this years SOTU, was a TWW fan,.
category pets and animals?
Cute.
why was this scratched?
I cant imagine unprecedented funding against the most lethal cancers. what would it look like and what results it could bring?
The problem with curing cancer is is that there are over 100 types of cancers and all of them are caused by something different!
True, but there is s pattern to how most of them work. I am surprised that we haven't cured cancers yet - or at least most of them.
@@mikemesser4326 because there's more money to be made in treatment than there is in cure.
@@Tim.GsyBloke I know. Just disappointing. I refuse to pay for a treatment that doesn't result in a cure. And yes, I am dealing with such a problem now. I've chosen to risk death rather than continue treatments. In my case, it will be a race to see if a tumor flares up and blinds me while killing my brain - or it spreads to cause fibrosis around my aorta or shuts down my kidneys.
@@mikemesser4326 I hope you're doing okay...
"all [100] of them are caused by something different". I don't think that's true or relevant. Cancer is abnormal cells growth resulting in tumors. I want these cells destroyed, I don't really care what "caused" them to switch to abnormal growth. So what if radiation from my cellphone caused them?
Sam Seaborn was the heart of that ensemble that ran the day to day for Jed Bartlett. Why TPTB ever decided to drop Rob Lowe denies reason.
I never ever liked Will Bailey. He hadn’t been through it all; slogging through the trenches to get to the White House. He was the new kid, and drug his
step-sister along. Just...strange.
Sam was my boy.
I think it was Rob Lowe that pulled the plug. As I have heard the story, initially TWW was going to have him as the main character and he was paid a salary to reflect that and the fact he was probably the most known actor (excluding Martin Sheen - who was meant to have a much smaller role). However the show became more of an ensemble and the other actors’ salaries increased to reflect this, but Rob Lowe’s didn’t or increased less so. I think he left because it was sort of a pay dispute
Edit He said he didn’t feel respected when the others got a pay raise and he didn’t.
He chose to leave
@@brontewcat Rob Lowe cut his rate to take the show. When the rest of the cast banded together to get their raise, the studio didn't do the same with his as they had already been playing him more than the others. This, asking with friction behind the scenes spelled the end of Sam on the show.
There's more to the story that I can't remember off the top of my head, but check out The West Wing Weakly Podcast for the rest. They interview Rob Lowe while going through the first season.
TPTB didn't pull the plug on Rob Lowe, Rob Lowe did. He got further and further sidelined in a show that was initially written to have him as the main character.
He was forced into the show by the network brass who began dictating how much airtime his portion of the scripts should be and it's part of why Sorkin himself left the show. Sorkin thought The Newsroom would be different and with his track record the same antics wouldn't occur but of course they did and he said he won't do TV anymore after the Newsroom...
All I hear, all I see, all day, every day now, when I watch The West Wing, is Aaron Sorkin's voice. Everyone sounds like Sorkin, all the time. Very difficult to distinguish- the bad guys are always room temperature IQ.
I think that is one of the greatest challenges for good authorship: how to create distinct characters. And another challenge: how to create compelling antagonists.
For the first, I've actually considered playing around with machine learning models used for author identification to see if they can be coerced into "translating" my writing into multiple different "voices".
For the second challenge, I think Arnold Vinick is a good example of doing it right: a smart character who genuinely believes what he clams and who can engage in inelegant discourse with people who disagree with him, not just a paper caricature of an ideology the writers oppose (without actually bothering to understand), who just screams catch phrases at anyone different than them. To do that well in a story like this, the authors need to actually understand the views of both the protagonists and antagonists, they need to write them so that the audience sees both as rationally persuing a goal that is seen as reasonable. Done masterfully, the audience will be sympathetic to *both* sides, wanting both to succeed, and thus be troubled by knowing that that is impossible, that for one to succeed, the other must fail.
I think that is why antagonists are so often "bad guys", villains; it's so much easier to write for opponents where the audience is supposed to hate them, even despise them. Where their motives are so reprehensible that the whole audience says "thank God that's not me" (and then secretly hopes that's really true).
@@benjaminshropshire2900 Vinick was also written as elegantly as he was *after* Sorkin had left the show, so it didn't surprise me in the least that they generated a Republican candidate that wasn't a total Bush-Lite farce.
the bad guys are the protagonists, Aaaaron Sorkin is just that out of touch with reality.
@@NathanJosephCole Liberals produce this show, "conservatives" produce The Potwins.
I don’t wanna be that guy but I will be. This chick is nowhere near Sam Seaborns league, dudes a stud.
Thats not the problem… the problem is that juan has plan A,B,C…Z. And 28 years to prepare.
Easy foe Barlett to make that promise since he probably won't be the president at the end of the decade.
Neither would JFK have been when he promised America would land on the Moon by the end of the decade.
@Daniel Dickson had he not been assassinated, he would have been around till early 69. No doubt he would have been reelected in 64.
If only the people who actually work in white house were anywhere near that smart, rather than the petty, shallow, vindictive, unfeeling, unthinking people who really are.
We don't vote for "smart." We vote for whomever gives the best raw meat soundbytes. If "smart" won elections rather than "Lock her up!" and "Build that wall!" then we'd be getting smart candidates.
Bevan +and would we have gotten better had she won?no.
Well, they don't bring their shallow ideology into the TH-cam comment section, so they're a lot smarter than you
Bevan Yeah, because "Hope and Change" is so brilliant. You assholes voted for an unqualified idiot because he is black. Don't lecture us.
@@MrJamberee If Obama was unqualified, then what in the hell does that make Trump.
Traylor Howard looks like a woman I went to college with. She was a Chemical Engineering major and was in my Dynamics class. She got up in a huff and left class never to come back except for exams. God, she was brilliant and didn’t suffer fools. She married another friend of mine. Jeeze, I should check in on them.
CJ is his Compassion?...Last thing CJ is .Is Compassionate
Why did he delete
I believe that he hit ctrl-z to add back what he deleted.
Because there was no reason to keep it. As beautiful as it is, it was just another part of a speech that was ultimately scrapped. At least, that is the narrative and the point of the story.
Actually wasn't the Air Force in ww2. Army airborne.
Army Air Corps
Actually the Air Force was part of the Army back then as the United States Army Air Forces. The Airborne were the paratroopers, then and now part of the army.
Cancer- If I cut down the tree, I make money from it but once. I f I merely trim it back, I'll make money from it for the next thirty years.
I'd like to think that Big Pharma wouldn't do that, but we're talking about an industry that profits on misery, an industry that changes a drug for a tablet to a capsule so they can get 17 more years of patent protections.
@@stevechance150 and that's what they would do with a cancer cure - make the cure expensive and make sure they kept the patent. Improvements that lead to fewer side effects also get you money. I'm a researcher in this field and I know some of the industry players and the attempts to seek a cure are not cynical, they are heartfelt and genuine. There's still more than enough profit to be made. Just because you're "cured" of cancer once doesn't mean you can't get it again, and with increasing frequency the longer you live.
The flagrant justice fittingly object because mary neurologically heap off a overconfident locket. abundant, glossy story
Joe Biden these days.
Sam Seaborn was the worst character on the show. It was a vanity role for the actor.
Couldn’t disagree more...
You're right. Lowe could never get over the fact that the original intentions for the role changed and that Richard and Brad and Alison and Martin were just doing far more interesting things with the material than he was and inspiring Aaron more. It's a shame that he never learnt to be part of the team and accept that he wasn't *The* star.
Um.....Mandy???
@@mattschwisow9982 Pardon me?
@@seanwebb605 The worst character in the show was Mandy. No contest.
that's how it works, you highlight it and press delete