Spanish FR-8: the "Cetmeton"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- The FR-8 is a Spanish rifle manufactured in the 1950s as part of Spain's adoption of the CETME semiautomatic rifles. Spain was not only moving to their first semiauto rifle, but also changing from 8mm Mauser to the new 7.62mm NATO. It was not possible to immediately equip everybody with the new rifles, so a parallel program was instituted to modify the now-obsolescent bolt action rifle in inventory into a more useful configuration.
FR-8 was the designation for an M43 Mauser (of the model 98 pattern) rebuilt as a training and second-line rifle. The original barrel was replaced with a 7.62mm barrel , along with a front sight duplicating that of the CETME. Where the CETME had a charging handle tube above the barrel, the FR-8 had a similar hollow tube below the barrel, which was used for storing a cleaning kit. The rear sight was similarly modified to duplicate the CETME sight picture and range adjustments. A muzzle brake was fitted so that standard 22mm NATO grenades could be launched (a further benefit for training compatibility).
Contrary to popular misconception, the FR-8 was designed to be used with normal full-power 7.62 NATO ammunition, not a reduced-charge specialty round.
A little tip from an FR 8- owner: You can also load the weapon with a loading strip.
There are "grooves" on the left and right side for this purpose.
Ian, I really hope that you'll read this commentary, because for now it is the only way I can appreciate your work and effort. It is your videos and videos from InRangeTV that inspired my interests in firearms and made me start practice shooting, even though I have to start with airguns. I want to thank you, Ian and Karl, and say that you now have a big fan from the heart of mother Russia - the Moscow city. I really want to support your show, but that's a hard task: I don't really have much money to donate to your Patreon(that's the reality of a typical student of medical faculty here), but If I find a way to support you, I will do that! Keep up the great work, you can inspire lots and lots of people!
Thanks!
The FR-8s were converted in the late 50s, After the adoption and standardization ofthe 7,62 Nato cartridge.
The 1952 date is the manufacture date of the original 7,9 x57 Model 1943, which were made up to at least 1954-5..
These rifles (FR-8) were still in use bythe Tercio ( Spanish Legion) in the African Spanish Enclaves of Ceuta and Mellila until the late 1990s.
Very well thought-out
conversion, and also a very good truck gun without further modification...especially for Feral Pigs.
Beautiful instrument, here in Spain we have it in the Royal Guard. has. much recoil compared to modern ones but they are very nice to handle, thanks for show ,.'^)
"Mosqueton" is not exactly a carbine. It is a rifle with an intermediate length between the rifle and the carbine. Its purpose is to provide a more handle weapon for second-line units, as artillery or engineers. Rifles are for front-line infantry units, "mosquetones" are for second line units (artillery and engineers) and carbine are for cavalry units.
The Fr-8 was not only designed for training users. In 50's Spanish army was converting to CETME assault rifle his front-line infantry units , but it was a slow process. It has the problem that logistic should manage 2 different types of cartridges, the old 7mm for Mausers, and the new 7,62 for CETMEs. In order to unify it , was planed the conversion of old mauser rifles to 7,62 as a cheap solution to equip second-line units unifying the ammunition logistic. As artillery, engineers, Guardia Civil (Guardia Civil is a rural police in Spain), etc... did not need the more modern weapons it was a good solution until there were enough CETMEs to distribute to all units. As these units were traditionally equipped with "Mosqueton" version of Mauser, the name for this conversions was a contraction of CETME +"Mosqueton" = Cetmeton
Thank you for your work. I really enjoy your videos and i'm learning a lot.
"You can store one cartridge, if you wanted it to rattle a lot..."
lol
Seems like a good idea. Make a less expensive bolt gun into a trainer for a semiauto. Seems like an outgrowth of the magazine cutoff philosophy- "reduce their rate of fire so they don't waste ammo!" Military conservativism. Usually accomplished by armchair generals who are nowhere near a battle. Gotta love a parkerized Mauser with a flash hider and add on sights. Eminently sensible. Probably easier to insert a blank cartridge for grenade firing into a bolt gun than a semi, also. Looks like a good pig rifle.Great video as always
One of the few rifles Ian has discussed that I have owned. Got mine in 1993 for $150 w/ sling and bayonet. Handy, tough little rifle.
Thank you for addressing the 7.62 NATO vs 7.62 CETME receiver strength myth. As you said, if it was designed for 8MM than the argument in mute.
I have one that I found at a pawnshop 15 years ago. Very accurate rifle. Thanks for the history lesson!
Im glad to see spanish firearms reviews, thanks
The FR-7 and FR-8 rifles are Mauser model 1916 and 1943 rifles to which the original 56 and 61 cm 7x57 and 8x57 caliber barrels were changed for a 46 cm 7.62 NATO caliber barrel, respectively.
They were a transitory solution to equip the troops in their services with weapons in the barracks. They were not conceived as combat weapons, only to "peel guards" and go to the shooting.
The number of the year stamped on the action does not correspond to the reform but to the production of the original rifle.
The FR-8 is an excellent base for building a "Scout" rifle.
They are usually very accurate rifles.
Los fusiles FR-7 y FR-8 son fusiles mauser modelo 1916 y 1943 a los que se les cambíó el cañon de 56 y 61 cm y calibre 7x 57 y 8x57 originales por un cañon de 46 cm del calibre 7,62 OTAN respectivamente.
Fueron una solucion transitoria para equipar a la tropa en sus servicios de armas en los acuartelamientos. No fueron concebidos como armas de combate, solo para "pelar guardias" e ir al tiro.
El numero del año estampado en la acción no corresponde al de la reforma sino al de produccion del fusil original-
El FR-8 es una excelente base para construir un rifle "Scout"
Suelen ser rifles muy precisos
Stop it. Stop making these videos, my gun bucket list keeps getting bigger and bigger! The struggle is real! Love these videos.
Yup and I just got my C&R license. Its not looking good for me.
I'm a sucker for the old cool stuff too
I bought three so far and and i have the same contagious disease of MilSurpitis! As everyone else. Just think of it as investing in your retirement in precious metals, instead of gold and silver your buying steel, brass, copper and lead.
My father bought one of these for $79.99 on clearance at a local store that was going under in the early 2000s 😅 even came with a bayonet.
I have one of the M43 Spanish Mauser rifles. I love it and I would really like one of these to round out the collection.
Hey Cody did you get one yet?
Under barrel tactical cigar holster ?
Spanish firearms are really interesting, and criminally underrated. I might have to assemble a collection...
The Spanish Black Legend, everything from Spain is Bad... very far of Reality
@@ASTFRER36 definitely, I can only guess at the origin of this reputation. Hopefully the recent influx of excellent Star pistols will set the record straight in the United States.
Very nice review again Ian , always a pleasure to watch your work :)
Finally, i asked you to make an video about this rifle some years ago and now its here! Thanks and as always great work! I just adore this rifle, thats why i bought two ;)
I carried an FR8 in my pickup truck for years. I bought another FR8 that was gunsmith modified to use M14 mags at a gun show and bought what looked to be brand new, unissued condition FR8. Awesome rifles for anything and everywhere.
I just bought one of these, and this video has been incredibly helpful in figuring my way around it.
They’re not very common anymore. I snatch them up whenever possible. Can I ask what you paid? When I do see them selling I see them going for upwards of anywhere from $500-$800 each
Got a very nice one for $650 recently PPT.
$550 for mine with bayonet.
I myself purchased one in San Diego back in the late 90s Excelente rifle Fierd marvelous and easy to maintain 👌
The flash hider is useful because it also holds the standard CETME bayonet knife and is pinned by the tool holder spike as welll
i bought an fr8 in the mid 90s along with 200 rounds of 7.62x51 nato for 100.00
Yep! Me too... but I paid $150.00 for the rifle, a NATO 180 cartridge vinyl battle pack and a bayonet. I still have all three, and I totally enjoy shooting it. GR8 little rifle.
Love my FR-8. Used it for many years for many white tail hunts. It is quite accurate and reliable.
I always enjoy your videos, they are so informational and well made.:D
I really love the way it looks, i guess i just like unusual looking bolt action rifles
Mandella effect: 40 yrs of going to gun shows and books on surplus rifles and never came across these til recently.
I have seen this in use in Brazil for training today.
Thanks Ian, I am beginning to be fascinated by Spanish rifles, I recently bought a real CETME C rifle civil version, from "new old stock" made as a semi auto in .307 W caliber ( 308 was illegal for civil use in Spain and the .307 was a rimmed .308!), but converted to .308/7.62 nato by fitting an H&K G3 bolt assembly, by Zelenysport in the Czech republic, they overstamped the "7" in the caliber with "8".
However, the plug in the recoil tube that serves as bayonet lug (on a civil rifle!!) is removed exactly as shown on your fr8 video. Lo and behold, I found a cleaning kit comprising 3 plastic ampoules of oil, articulated brush holder and chamber brush in the aluminium cartridge that was revealed.
A grenade launcher on a civilian rifle is also a novelty,
If ever you would like to do a vid on the real civil CETME's (not MARS or Century arms)please contact me.
In the meantime please keep up the good work and I'll get hold of a bayonet and start looking for a FR8!
No habian prohibido los cetmes C hace pocos años por las nuevas restricciones o es una version civil de fabrica ?
those simple bolt actions look real good with detach mags
That little guy is actually quite a nice design from an optical point of view (imho). Reminds me of the VK-98 in terms of simplicity and recycling - which I like a lot. :)
Maybe someone could build a successor as some sort of mass-produced "economy" 2nd-line weapon for NATO and the civilian market, it would be quite affordable for both parties.
Ive got one! 1952 date stamp. I love its look and function. Its one of my favorites
That is one COOL looking bolt action rifle.. Wish I would have been of age when these rifles were available for a cheap price.
Nice video. You always educate and entertain
I have one I bought YEARS ago, and I love this silly thing.
So we have one! Probably my favorite one
I so wish I had picked one of these up when I had the chance!
looks like a pretty nice rifle id get one
There are slots in the front of the flash hider that I believe are for cutting wire.
I love my FR-8
Thank you so much for doing a video on this rifle, it was the first rifle I ever purchased, not knowing what it actually is. Mine has been changed though, the bottom tube is missing and the ring to hold it in place under the Barrel was welded off - so I can't use the bayonet unfortunately.. Another thing I noticed, my FR8 doesn't have this "block" in the magazine, it's just the follower. I think that's were the jams come from, because when I want to load a round in the chamber, it often just jams up, hard to describe when english isn't your first language ^^ should I get that replaced? Mine also doesn't shoot too well, I get 2-3 inch groups at 50m.. which grain ammo would you suggest for it? I'd be thankful if you would read this, I've been waiting for quite a while to ask an expert about all this! Been a fan of your channel for quite a while, I love your videos, awesome work!
at age 12 my dad bought me and my brother fr8s we saw in a bucket of cosmoline caked rifles at a lane dept store in schukill haven P.A. while on our annual deer hunting trip .. at 12 yrs old there could not be a cooler looking bolt action rifle and after we got it home and cleaned it up I couldn't wait for the first opportunity to shoot it.. pretty stout recoil but I don't think I cared . fast forward 2 seasons and while at a day on the rifle range my beautiful fR8 exploded in my face. thank god for Mauser saftey lug because every other part was shattered or bent ..broke front lugs , bent floor plate split stock extractor went flying ect..a true catastrophic event.. we never really got a definite answer from the smith's we knew regarding the cause, some said obviously ammo related others said soft receiver.. anyways, although I was uninjured, I realized that I nearly died , and that sunk in ..it took me a year to get behind anything more than a 22 lr as I had developed a flinch that I couldn't cute and still have apprehension with certain rifles ,older , higher power ones at least.
I'd like to get one of these. They're really neat. I got what I am guessing would be the FR7. It's the m1916 conversion.
FR 7 same layout as FR 8 but on a 96 action , have FR 8 myself nice gun , funny Ian didn't mention the FR7 version.
I have a FR7 version nice rifle I need to take some pics and post when I have time
I've got one of these and it kicks the crap outta of your shoulder.
luv this channel.
Nice video, i've never heard of this rilfe until now and i'm Spanish
Been eyeing these
I have one rebarreled to 7x57mm that was sporterized. It handles the old 7mm Mauser cartridge with sterling accuracy, though the rear mounted and front bolted sights did not initially have a loving relationship.
Un gran arma, potente y precisa👍
Los únicos que no podemos disfrutar de esta arma tanto estás como los CETME somos los españoles,todo el mundo puede hasta tenerlas menos nosotros,los ciudadanos comunes.
That is a handy looking rifle that today might fall into the "Scout Rifle" category, very nicely! Small, light, handy, possibly bothersome to shoot much in reality.
I have one of these. Such a handy, fun little rifle. I call it the “assault bolt rifle”. I usually stick to US firearms, but this one was so cool I couldn’t pass on it.
I take it you have yet to have a CETME as usually you post a link. Are they particularly rare to find or have you not come across one yet because I would be interested to see since we've had several Spanish arms recently (not sure if you're doing a series or if there's just a collection that luckily has gone up for auction) but I feel that for many people in the US, the Spanish Arms industry is kind of Forgotten and I think it would be neat to see since we're way more familiar with American, British, Belgian, Russian, Czech, Austrian, Italian, German, and even Japanese (sometimes French) but not much else. I always enjoy when you bring us "little known" weapons.
The rifle even comes with a tactical skittles holder, sweet! In all seriousness though, that is a handy little storage compartment, I have a fire starting kit that would fit right in there.
Brilliant
I have one of these I bought 15+ years ago at Dunham's Sporting Goods, came with the sling and bayonet but no cleaning kit. Thought it was a cool gun at the time and didn't cost that much, later found out the history behind it, pretty cool. Don't know if they are at all rare or not but I'll probably never sell it.
great platform for a scout or brush rifle.
Very nice
I got one some guy try to refurbish. He did a great job but sanded and refinished the stock, re-Parkerized the whole thing and turned down the bolt. He couldn't sell it as a result, so I got it for $200. So I turned it into a scout rifle with a 4x power long eye relief scope. It's an amazing shooter and is a lot of fun.
Good video
A nice video Ian, I wish our cadets had a 5.56 trainer like that.
..any minuté possibility of some straight pull semi-auto 5.56 NATO L98A1 (or even L98A2) Cadet Rifles made it across the pond for testing somewhere ?
So if they shipped it by train, was it called a "FR8 TRAIN"? hahaha ok I'll see myself out.
that joke was gr8. M8. Don't take my b8. Find a d8. Sorry for that. I 8 a poisonous snake.
+FireFox Gameplay! better not w8 til 8 or you'll be l8
gr8 deb8 m8s, i r8 it 8/8
grab the fr8 out da cr8 dump the clip seal your f8 see you at the golden g8s with all ur m8s why the h8 I'm the greatest in all the st8s that's why when I see myself in the mirror I masturb8 clean the sl8 I'm a heavy w8 I'm s8an I'm t8 I'm gr8 oh w8 I sk8 but fuck eight
If they're made in Granada Spain. They are GR8 rifles. 😄
I got one of these a few years ago for $150. Probably the best deal I've ever gotten. I wish there was a more practical way to mount a scope on it, scout rifle style.
I need to try to pick this one up. I had one but sold it thinking I could replace it, and of course they became harder to get right after I did. I need one to be a companion to my CETME, ha.
I remember seeing these advertised in the long defunct Guns-N-Stuff publication back in the late 90's for a hundred or a hundred and fifty bucks or so.
This rifle has a curious history: a Spanish weapons factory had a huge number of rifle bolts manufactured for old Mauser , but it was decided not to manufacture more Mauser since it was decided that the Spanish army uses Cetme rifles (assault rifles). To take advantage of these bolts, the factory decided to make these small rifles with the same machinery with which it manufactured the Cetmes but with the old bolts. In total about 150,000 of these rifles were manufactured, but not used, they were stored. Several years passed without being used since the regulatory rifle was the Cetme, then it was ordered to destroy these FR-8 by obsolete. When it had destroyed half of them, a German arms dealer found out and those who had not yet been destroyed bought them at scrap prices, which he resold in the United States for gun enthusiasts
I've seen and read about this rifle before, but i have just realized how much Ruger gunsite scout is similar in looks.
anybody else miss the old intro with the music and all?
These rifles were hardly used since they went from using the 1911 mauser to the cetme, so they are mostly as new ones. They were made of various calibers and in the end it was decided to destroy them. Fortunately a German gun dealer, who learned that the project to destroy them, bought a huge amount of them at a very low price and resold
them in the USA
I don't know why the sights on this gun haven't been used on more guns very simple easy to use sights
One of the sexiest guns ever made
A few videos back was the Gewehr 98, and the sights bottomed out at 400m, and about 55 years later, same basic rifle and the sights top out at 400m.
I actually meet some former employees of this factory, few years ago. They have really interesting stuff to tell.
My local gunsmith is a savant of his craft, but he will fight me to the grave that 7.62 will make an FR8 explode. I got an earful about it when I brought it in for an extractor swap one time.
What about the FR-7 built on the Small Ring Receiver? Are they safe to shoot with full power 308 Winchester?
Should be the Spanish army did .
10 years ago I couldn’t give mine away! Sold it for 150$ looked it up a few days ago and 600$
The storage tube looks a lot like the add on barrel stabilizers for mini 14s. Wonder if it does triple duty: storage, bayonet, & stabilizer.
Cuando estuve en el servicio militar en España me toco a Canarias y en infantería 50 en el año 85 teniamos este mosqueton fr 8 como arma y cuando subíamos a tiro tenia una precisión tremenda lo malo era que tenias 5 tiros y cada vez que cargabas tenias que tirar del cerrojo por lo demas muy ligero y preciso buenos culatazos te pegaba en el hombro.
I wonder why we don't see that sight system more often.
Been wondering about this, so I figure I may just as well ask it..
Your "universal gun disassembly tool" is just a pen is it not?
Lafeel Abriel lol
🤦🏼♂️
There's some debate about if these are safe to use with commercial .308 Winchester ammunition. Is the large ring Mauser safe to use with .308 Win or is there any work needed to change the chambering?
would've been really awesome if those were converted to use the cetme 20 round box mags. would make these rifles so much cooler
So many people still making the mistake of believing that .308 is significantly hotter than 7.62 NATO. The two were measured in different units, CUP vs PSI. In reality, there is no concern with cartridge pressure firing .308 in a 7.62 NATO bolt action rifle. I WOULD be concerned enough to verify safe headspace before doing so, however. And reloading with 7.62 NATO brass you need to take into account the smaller case capacity due to thicker brass.
Also, the small ring conversions from 7mm Mauser were made specifically to fire 7.62 NATO, not the lower pressure CETME round. This is another myth that gets thrown around everywhere. If you do a quick search, you'll find pictures of the military manual for those converted rifles listing the caliber as 7.62 NATO. Surplus 7mm has been known to test at pressures well into 7.62/.308 range and those rifles fired that ammo safely for many years. Whether you want to feed them a steady diet of it, that's up to you. I load mine down a bit just to be safe, but I wouldn't hesitate shooting 7.62 NATO out of it if I had some because it headspaces just fine and it can take it IMO. I reload for it so I don't shoot any surplus or commercial ammo since the only two guns I have that shoot that round are the two small-ring converted Spanish Mausers.
Any idea how many were imported and/or manufactured? Or the price they usually fetch?
last i checked the price was 400.00
did the fact that the flash hider cab be used to cut barbed wire get edited out?
Can you fit a cigar in the tube?
Etymology Cigarillo 3.5 inch
Well now when he just shows the forearm and barrel all I see is a wood forearmed G3 with its sight flipped upside down. Can’t unsee shit like that.
Question What would make the flash hider less relevant on this bolt action rifle? Or is it just that it’s a training rifle
I am Spaniard, l was able to watch this kind of weapon in my military service in the decade of seventies and in that time belonged to Engineers.
my friend fred masterton runs the best Spanish mauser Website
Are the small ring mauser rifles safe to shoot in 7.62 nato?
Pls do a video on Galilean style sights
Ian hello.. What is the difference between the Spanish FR-8 rifle and the FR-7 police rifle i see out there for sale right now ? THANKS
FR 8 a 98 action ; FR 7 96 action is the difference .
My father trained with one like that in its mili (obligatory military service)
I have one of these
*Grunts in Jeff Cooper*
my Spanish fr-8 does not have any markings it does not looked to be taken off just the cal and serial numbers so I don't know the year the numbers is 30xxxx what would the year be you think
The one thing I hate about modern bolt action rifles is that they don't have iron sights, typically. Not all of us hunt, and not all hunters want scopes. We want a bolt action rifle just like men had long ago. No scope, no frills. There should be no reason for example a Remington 700 shouldn't have a stripper clip guide, iron sights and a bayonet lug.
Have you ever reviewed a FR-7?
I was sifting through the comments to see if anyone mentioned the FR-7. I'd really love some concrete proof one way or the other if the FR-7 is safe to shoot. There's just so much conflicting information online, that in the end, really, it's only Gun Jesus I'll trust to set the record straight.
The FR-7 is safe to shoot. Why would the Spanish make a rifle that wasn't ?
See these occasionally in Australia. Hard to find anything but 308win ammo though
I shoot .308 and 7.62 NATO in mine no noticeable difference and no signs of headspace problems on the brass.
thats where the large ring mauser shines .308 winchester is perfectly fine the 8 mm mauser that it was designed for is a more powerful cartridge.the fr 7 being a small ring mauser worrys most folks but will fire 7.62 x 51 nato safely.
I have one!