Hello I'm the owner of the Grindstone list and the Tayam Discord, Would you be interested in talking about this decklist in the Tayam discord because in this video there a multiple fallacies and just factually wrong statements, while I do NOT condone people in this comment section or in my Server to insult your decklist and just call it "casual" without giving actual valid criticism I think pointing out decks flaws is always valid if backed up with the proper criticism so I want to have an actual civil discussion explaining the fallacies in your decklist and general statements you made in the video.
Tayam is such a cool commander, it has so much potential, one of those commanders that is as powerful as you want to build it. I have an aggro build that uses Tayam to grind it out in the late game
Honestly i'll assume you haven't been to the Luminous Kingdom server (the server focused on the Luminous Grindstone list) because a lot of people there wouldn't say you are wrong without giving proper reasoning. If you have been to that server it's at least disrespectful to say they don't understand the deck or want to hurt someone's feelings when criticizing a decklist. Of course i don't know what was your experience in the server you joined, but a lot of people have been working on this commander since it's release and want to see new players winning with Tayam. If you're not in the Luminous Kingdom server i recommend you join it, the invite link is in the description of the Luminous Grindstone list. If you were in that server and didn't get proper criticism i'm sorry that you had a bad experience. If you were in that server and got proper criticism, be more respectful.
I love this deck tech. I'm still new to cEDH but I really love all the green combos. Question about Faeburrow Elder and Wall of Roots. Do either of them go infinite or are they just synergistic mana dorks?
Hello! There are some questionable card choices here, I’d recommend checking out the Luminous Grindstone list/primer to help you take tayam to its fullest potential :)
Hermit Druid over weathered wayfarer is a choice. Based on the title being changed I don’t think he’s taking criticisms of his list though. 😔 I like the list overall I think not including the floating loop is a mistake.
@@decktechsfordecksI don’t remember “wrong” being in the title lol I could be wrong though. So it’s strangleroot Geist, a sac outlet preferably carrion feeder, tayam, and a mana enabler like rishkar or enduring vitality. This is the most efficient version but you can also do it by adding tyvar and any undying creature. It’s hard to explain through text. Look up tayam floating loop. It basically lets you dump your entire deck till you can transition the loop into an infinite mana combo.
Ohhh I’m familiar with it I just didn’t know that’s what it was called. I’ve never really liked combos like that in tayam personally it’s just a playstyle thing 😁
As a fellow Tayam enjoy as well as a Tiamat Brewer I get your sediment. What you got going is not casual by any means just misunderstood as you said, I made sure to take some notes on this brew. It’s sad that no one‘s open to nuance. Hopefully I can play Tayam as well as my Ezio Tiamat/maskwood pile list once I Get a better schedule. Don’t get discouraged by peoples closemindedness and keep up the great content!!!
@@decktechsfordecksI haven't been in the Tayam discord in ages, but I stayed long enough to learn how/why things are brewed as they are. Your list reflects your personal preferences in deck building and play patterns which are valid. Given the "enigma" that deck building for Tayam presents, there are bound to be competing visions. In my experience much of the friction during deck building discussions are caused by conflicting goals or evaluations. Keep in mind that many Tayam lists are tuned for the cEDH tournament enviorment where we have a limited round timer which can *drastically* affect things like card quality and play patterns. I'd be happy to share my current working list or more precise/fleshed out critiques of yours if you'd like, but I won't for now in fear of "dog piling" any criticism you might be already getting.
people are calling this a casual list but it’s only a couple cards different than “stock” (Grindstone) and has some unique and creative win lines. i think it’s cool, but certainly don’t ride off the value of the tayam discord server, there are a lot of knowledgeable and intelligent people working on the deck
How to you get the bird to do the damage to get it to explore for the cauldron ballista line. It has zero power. Or maybe I’m just dumb and missing something
Tayam is my main deck. It's good and hard to interact with. But from what I've seen with this list, i dont think it's as powerful as the popular ones. The combos are too fragile, too many cards only work with their other combo piece and nothing else, and you're assuming tayam is on the field for counters too much.
I used to run it. It got a cut after I went to this build sense I’m usually winning off of 1 Tayam activation. Getting 7 cards in the yard just doesn’t happen often.
Cedh players need to really start playtesting decklist before they start working their keyboard strokes... This deck is NOT Tukka's list. Id argue that it is MORE resilient. Try it before you knock it. Super important in this post ban world
@@BisyBackson365 I like the list and I feel like Tukka has too much redundancy as far as there loop is concerned but I still feel like it should be included in the list. Especially given the number to tutors in this list.
@@frederickhansarmstrongthe1656aside from the sheer number of games and hours of discussion i have had against/with DT about this list. I have also played a fair number of games of players that i running Tukka's or heavily inspired by tukkas list. Including my LGS having a tukka varient. This list controls and simply doesnt die very easily. I tend to be able to ignore and hold up a single spot removal to snipe tukkas list. DT trades redundancy of cards for a multiple and varied combos. Nearly all of which doent just produce counters and creatures but ALSO mana. Many of DTs combos can also win agnostic of tayam like franscio, ballista, devoted druid ect. Really, if you know how to tayam. Just play a few games with the decklist. In my experience, it plays very neatly with the graveyard. It also doesnt die to a greedy pod.
@@BisyBackson365 What you say is fair. I do like having lines thay don't need Tayam. You'd be able to snipe these lines too like you would with your removal you held for Tayam. This list is still hurt by the same things. Circling back to the sniping Tayam with removal to stop them if that was all it took it seems like they were misplaying since they should be reacting. Generally the redundancy allows you to win from that position if you are built up enough or recover. So that redundancy to me is the resilience. I've got the reps on Tayam. I'm not gonna knock this guys list as not worth it trying. He does run things I've tried and disliked due to what Tayam is asking of you as a commander. Appreciate the response.
Too many combo pieces that dont interact with eachother. Leads to a lot of dead hands. Its not casual. You could play this cEDH but this would not fly in tEDH.
I’ve played this vs t1 decks that see a ton of tournament play and it holds a respectable win rate. cEDH players love to gate keep and invalidate your experience. I’ve also heard the “well those players are just bad obviously” you can never win 😔
@@decktechsfordecks saying cEDH players "love to gate keep" is factually wrong, and this sort of statement deters people from the format. Its the complete opposite, across all decks and communities. Just because people want to give you criticism over a deck doesn't mean they are gate keeping anything. What would you prefer, people lie and say the list is great, and misinformation is spread? You have to admit, a lot of your combo pieces are so fragile. They're dead cards without the combo pieces, this makes the overall deck really fragile.
@@sweatybiscuits “they’re dead cards and useless without the combo pieces” That statement is short sighted or intentionally disingenuous and makes me think you lack the ability to evaluate cards properly without bias. If the criticism is fair I’ll listen but it just feels biased. The primer list that everyone plays also plays some fragile combos that fold if you remove the right pieces. Part of cedh is finding the right opening or winning under a silence/grand abolisher effect which this deck runs. My experience brewing cedh decks has not been a very positive one I do it because I love to brew. I even continue to brew cedh decks knowing I’ll get several people in the comments section calling it casual. Just read a few comments and you can see how I came to my conclusion of cedh players gatekeeping the format from “different none primer list brews” I think over criticizing a deck list will keep more people out of the cedh format than someone calling people out for gatekeeping. Even you come off as super rude saying things like “calling this list great would spread misinformation” and it completely disregards my experience with the list. It’s not a science thesis that needs to be picked apart it’s a fun deck that wins games in a card game I enjoy 😂
@@sweatybiscuits your last statement is under the premise of not playing a stax deck. This is a stax deck thats the reason why all these peices tho fragile works. Actual stax decks need to build their engine peices slowly or in a way that plays under their own stax. Which is what this deck aims to do.
@@decktechsfordecksI don’t agree with it not being close but not including the floating loop makes me agree with the statement as a whole. Definitely mid-high power tayam but not Cedh. I do think some of the choices are pretty spicy and I wanna include them in my list though! Edit: dude could have included actual criticism of the list instead of being a douche.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Hello I'm the owner of the Grindstone list and the Tayam Discord, Would you be interested in talking about this decklist in the Tayam discord because in this video there a multiple fallacies and just factually wrong statements, while I do NOT condone people in this comment section or in my Server to insult your decklist and just call it "casual" without giving actual valid criticism I think pointing out decks flaws is always valid if backed up with the proper criticism so I want to have an actual civil discussion explaining the fallacies in your decklist and general statements you made in the video.
You can shoot me a dm if you’d like my discord name is the same as the channels 😁
This is so wholesome
I do gotta say as a back up for Rosie sadistic glee works. Also having the new kambal mayor out wins you the game with the Rosie lizard line also
Yeah but that combo also still works with zp cutthroat due to the tokens being able to sac themselves
Tayam is such a cool commander, it has so much potential, one of those commanders that is as powerful as you want to build it. I have an aggro build that uses Tayam to grind it out in the late game
💯 it was my first cedh commander. I got a couple games in and never looked back 😁
Honestly i'll assume you haven't been to the Luminous Kingdom server (the server focused on the Luminous Grindstone list) because a lot of people there wouldn't say you are wrong without giving proper reasoning.
If you have been to that server it's at least disrespectful to say they don't understand the deck or want to hurt someone's feelings when criticizing a decklist. Of course i don't know what was your experience in the server you joined, but a lot of people have been working on this commander since it's release and want to see new players winning with Tayam.
If you're not in the Luminous Kingdom server i recommend you join it, the invite link is in the description of the Luminous Grindstone list. If you were in that server and didn't get proper criticism i'm sorry that you had a bad experience. If you were in that server and got proper criticism, be more respectful.
I love this deck tech. I'm still new to cEDH but I really love all the green combos. Question about Faeburrow Elder and Wall of Roots. Do either of them go infinite or are they just synergistic mana dorks?
@@mrbluesky2 synergistic dorks
@@mrbluesky2 wall produces counters
I’m glad you enjoyed the deck tech 😁
They can go infinite, if you have Tyvar, a sac outlet and both of those cards you can just loop Faeburrow Elder
Hello! There are some questionable card choices here, I’d recommend checking out the Luminous Grindstone list/primer to help you take tayam to its fullest potential :)
Hermit Druid over weathered wayfarer is a choice. Based on the title being changed I don’t think he’s taking criticisms of his list though. 😔
I like the list overall I think not including the floating loop is a mistake.
Title being changed? I’m down to hear about this combo.
@@decktechsfordecksI don’t remember “wrong” being in the title lol
I could be wrong though.
So it’s strangleroot Geist, a sac outlet preferably carrion feeder, tayam, and a mana enabler like rishkar or enduring vitality. This is the most efficient version but you can also do it by adding tyvar and any undying creature.
It’s hard to explain through text. Look up tayam floating loop. It basically lets you dump your entire deck till you can transition the loop into an infinite mana combo.
Ohhh I’m familiar with it I just didn’t know that’s what it was called. I’ve never really liked combos like that in tayam personally it’s just a playstyle thing 😁
As a fellow Tayam enjoy as well as a Tiamat Brewer I get your sediment. What you got going is not casual by any means just misunderstood as you said, I made sure to take some notes on this brew. It’s sad that no one‘s open to nuance. Hopefully I can play Tayam as well as my Ezio Tiamat/maskwood pile list once I Get a better schedule. Don’t get discouraged by peoples closemindedness and keep up the great content!!!
That’s awesome to hear man I appreciate it! 😁
I just wish the community was more open to new ideas.
@@decktechsfordecksI haven't been in the Tayam discord in ages, but I stayed long enough to learn how/why things are brewed as they are.
Your list reflects your personal preferences in deck building and play patterns which are valid. Given the "enigma" that deck building for Tayam presents, there are bound to be competing visions.
In my experience much of the friction during deck building discussions are caused by conflicting goals or evaluations.
Keep in mind that many Tayam lists are tuned for the cEDH tournament enviorment where we have a limited round timer which can *drastically* affect things like card quality and play patterns.
I'd be happy to share my current working list or more precise/fleshed out critiques of yours if you'd like, but I won't for now in fear of "dog piling" any criticism you might be already getting.
Why not Scurry Oak? Goes infinite with Rosie and also good with Tayam
That would give us infinite creatures and counter but we would lack infinite mana. 😅
This is great, the game needs creativity especially post ban. Trying new things that isn’t just consultation lines.
people are calling this a casual list but it’s only a couple cards different than “stock” (Grindstone) and has some unique and creative win lines. i think it’s cool, but certainly don’t ride off the value of the tayam discord server, there are a lot of knowledgeable and intelligent people working on the deck
How to you get the bird to do the damage to get it to explore for the cauldron ballista line. It has zero power. Or maybe I’m just dumb and missing something
I’m dumb. I just realize that the cauldron gives a plus one plus one counter.
Hair is looking wonderful today!
can we have an update for the tatsunari, toad rider with the new set pls:)
What would you recommend replacing survival of the fittest with?
Birthing pod would be the closest replacement
Wow finally but better question where’s Greasefang
He’s next and the list is complete 😁 🎉
Tayam is my main deck. It's good and hard to interact with. But from what I've seen with this list, i dont think it's as powerful as the popular ones. The combos are too fragile, too many cards only work with their other combo piece and nothing else, and you're assuming tayam is on the field for counters too much.
Definitely check out centaur garden
I used to run it. It got a cut after I went to this build sense I’m usually winning off of 1 Tayam activation. Getting 7 cards in the yard just doesn’t happen often.
One of my favorite notifications, sad that people gonna sit here and hate, the MTG community is normally so disgusting and it's sad..
Cedh players need to really start playtesting decklist before they start working their keyboard strokes...
This deck is NOT Tukka's list. Id argue that it is MORE resilient. Try it before you knock it. Super important in this post ban world
@@BisyBackson365 I like the list and I feel like Tukka has too much redundancy as far as there loop is concerned but I still feel like it should be included in the list. Especially given the number to tutors in this list.
Can I ask in what way you think it is more resilient?
@@frederickhansarmstrongthe1656aside from the sheer number of games and hours of discussion i have had against/with DT about this list. I have also played a fair number of games of players that i running Tukka's or heavily inspired by tukkas list. Including my LGS having a tukka varient.
This list controls and simply doesnt die very easily. I tend to be able to ignore and hold up a single spot removal to snipe tukkas list. DT trades redundancy of cards for a multiple and varied combos. Nearly all of which doent just produce counters and creatures but ALSO mana. Many of DTs combos can also win agnostic of tayam like franscio, ballista, devoted druid ect.
Really, if you know how to tayam. Just play a few games with the decklist. In my experience, it plays very neatly with the graveyard. It also doesnt die to a greedy pod.
@@BisyBackson365 What you say is fair. I do like having lines thay don't need Tayam. You'd be able to snipe these lines too like you would with your removal you held for Tayam. This list is still hurt by the same things. Circling back to the sniping Tayam with removal to stop them if that was all it took it seems like they were misplaying since they should be reacting. Generally the redundancy allows you to win from that position if you are built up enough or recover. So that redundancy to me is the resilience. I've got the reps on Tayam. I'm not gonna knock this guys list as not worth it trying. He does run things I've tried and disliked due to what Tayam is asking of you as a commander.
Appreciate the response.
Ranger captain of eos
My apologies you definitely have him.
Haters gonna hate, this is a fun little deck. Emperor of bones is great here
He’s been an all star for me!
Cute power level 7 deck
Too many combo pieces that dont interact with eachother. Leads to a lot of dead hands. Its not casual. You could play this cEDH but this would not fly in tEDH.
I’ve played this vs t1 decks that see a ton of tournament play and it holds a respectable win rate. cEDH players love to gate keep and invalidate your experience. I’ve also heard the “well those players are just bad obviously” you can never win 😔
@@decktechsfordecks well if Im gatekeeping then 🧙♂️you shall not pass bro 😘
@@decktechsfordecks saying cEDH players "love to gate keep" is factually wrong, and this sort of statement deters people from the format. Its the complete opposite, across all decks and communities. Just because people want to give you criticism over a deck doesn't mean they are gate keeping anything. What would you prefer, people lie and say the list is great, and misinformation is spread?
You have to admit, a lot of your combo pieces are so fragile. They're dead cards without the combo pieces, this makes the overall deck really fragile.
@@sweatybiscuits “they’re dead cards and useless without the combo pieces” That statement is short sighted or intentionally disingenuous and makes me think you lack the ability to evaluate cards properly without bias. If the criticism is fair I’ll listen but it just feels biased. The primer list that everyone plays also plays some fragile combos that fold if you remove the right pieces. Part of cedh is finding the right opening or winning under a silence/grand abolisher effect which this deck runs.
My experience brewing cedh decks has not been a very positive one I do it because I love to brew. I even continue to brew cedh decks knowing I’ll get several people in the comments section calling it casual. Just read a few comments and you can see how I came to my conclusion of cedh players gatekeeping the format from “different none primer list brews”
I think over criticizing a deck list will keep more people out of the cedh format than someone calling people out for gatekeeping. Even you come off as super rude saying things like “calling this list great would spread misinformation” and it completely disregards my experience with the list. It’s not a science thesis that needs to be picked apart it’s a fun deck that wins games in a card game I enjoy 😂
@@sweatybiscuits your last statement is under the premise of not playing a stax deck. This is a stax deck thats the reason why all these peices tho fragile works.
Actual stax decks need to build their engine peices slowly or in a way that plays under their own stax. Which is what this deck aims to do.
Yo where you the tayam OG?
this list is not cedh, not even close...
You’re going to need better bait 😜
@@decktechsfordecksI don’t agree with it not being close but not including the floating loop makes me agree with the statement as a whole. Definitely mid-high power tayam but not Cedh. I do think some of the choices are pretty spicy and I wanna include them in my list though!
Edit: dude could have included actual criticism of the list instead of being a douche.
if partner != "Rograkh, Son of Rogahh" and "Silas Renn, Seeeker Adept":
print("not cedh")
@@heyaephyn true
Ever play tayam? I think the answer will be no😂
Its a casual list
@@kevin171994 no one at a casual table will call this deck casual