Explaining the Irish Fiddle Bowhold
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- Is the Irish fiddle bow hold confusing to you? Not to worry, friend! In this quick Irish fiddle tutorial, I’m breaking down an alternate method for fiddle bowing for you.
You’re likely already familiar with the classical bow hold, but you may have seen pro Irish fiddle players holding their bow differently. This quick lesson will walk you through why I decided to convert to this alternate fiddle bow hold and how you can do the same.
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Have you tried this alternate bow hold before? Do you prefer it over the classical version?
Yes, exactly! I've seen the thumbnail and managed to "avoid" it in favor of mastering my classical bow hold first, but today I cracked and tried it out and.. boom! The difference is huge, and everything about fiddling happens far more naturally than when doing it with the stiffer classic bow hold - like that up and down of your wrist, the shorter and gentler strokes, it all just happens! Thanks for this great tip and your excellent explaination!
You are so welcome, Philip! It sounds like you and I had a similar experience with this bow hold -- there's something about it that really helps the tunes flow better :D.
Thanks so much for this video. Can't wait to try this tomorrow morning (it's late and my neighbours are already mad at me🤣) As a learner I have been having a bit of a bow shake problem and I have a feeling this will help. x
Lol!! I can totally relate to wanting to keep the neighbors happy. How did it go the following morning?
@@HannahHarrisCeol It went well! It definitely helps to minimise the shakiness and also sort of frees up my wrist. Thankyou so much. PS. The neighbours are now having a cellar conversion done with constant banging all day. This is great as I now feel I can make a racket whenever I like!🤪
@@walneylass hahah brilliant! And so glad to hear your wrist feels more free with this bow hold -- I've definitely found the same.
This is so reassuring! I've had a violin for nearly 20 years but I haven't worked hard at it. About a year ago I got an accordion, and recently got a book of Irish music arranged for the piano accordion. I just decided I'd start learning the Irish tunes on the fiddle as well. When I do a classical bow hold but on the wire wrapping, it just feels so much more balanced and comfortable!
I'm so happy to hear that, Adam! You may find that you'll want to change where you hold the bow over time (I think I've moved back down closer to a classical hold than I used to, but still about where you are now on the wire wrapping) -- the important thing is to keep experimenting and knowing that you have options!
I'm self taught and learning late (started at 30). All I really want is to play Irish fiddle tunes well. So like anyone else i just searched "how to hold a violin bow" and of course just assumed the classical hold was the only way to do it.
Anyway I was having lots of trouble. So I was watching videos of folk players and saw someone doing this hold. It kind of blew my mind to see someone playing so well with what I thought was an unconventional technique. I decided to try it for a lark and like you said, just an immediate difference. So here I am googling it to see someone else talk about it.
Thanks for sharing, makes me feel better knowing I'm not the only one that the classical bow hold wasn't working for.
Ahh this is great to read, Bryan! So happy you were willing to experiment and push outside the box to find a technique that helps you get the sound you want. Way to go!
Same! I’m learning for the first time as a self taught 29 year old and the classical hold feels so unbalanced and unnatural to me. I’ve been trying an altered hold somewhere between a classical and this hold and it’s just so much more natural for me. The sound quality comes out better and I feel like I’m more in control of the bow without pressing or gripping. It’s all lighter and softer. Thank you! Love your videos! I’m learning a lot.
I found this hold about a month ago and it has made such a difference for me! Thank you for sharing so others can give it a try
You're so welcome, Judi! So happy it's worked for you too! :D
what fabulous playing, fab sound and great Irish sound
Thank you so much, Neil! Definitely took some work to dial in that sound, so that means a lot!
I naturally hold the bow higher but not as high as you do. I'll try it as you do, see how it works. Thanks for the tip 😊
You are so welcome, Gabi! Definitely reply back and let me know how it goes for you!
As a new player should I concentrate on learning classical or can I just roll with Irish Fiddle hold? I find this hold infinitely more comfortable.
I'd go with the more comfortable hold! It never hurts to be able to do both, especially if you want to branch out into other genres, but if you had to pick one to start with I'd go with the one that feels better to you!
Getting back into Irish FIddle after many years. I tired this bow hold on my brand new violin bow and Fiddle. I can't go back to the classical way, not now. Thank you for High lighting this
Another convert to the higher bow hold! I love it! :D Though I will say, I've changed where I hold my bow over time and have inched back down towards the frog a bit. So never say never! Glad you're back in the world of Irish fiddling, Caroline!
Yes I tried it. I can play faster. Thanks so much. Its very helpful. My problem of not being fast enough to play Irish music (The faster stuff) has been a rodblock for a long time . I thought my arms were too short so I bought a 3/4 violin bow, which helped, but the tone is not as rich. I've been experimenting with your method today and am already seeing significant improvement.
Well done, you! I'm so happy to hear this method is helping you see the results you want in your playing. Keep at it, and let me know if I can be of any additional assistance!
I can't wait to try this; thanks!!
You are so welcome, Jill! I'd love to hear how it goes for you -- feel free to write back when you try it!
Thanks ... this may help with my arthritis issues in my right shoulder.
Andrew Finn Magill gave some great general advice in a past workshop I took with him: if something's hurting in your playing set up, it's a good indication that you need to change positioning! So with that in mind, I absolutely hope this helps you with your arthritis and gives you an opportunity to explore more options there!
It also has to do with the balance point of the bow it the balance point requires you to hold it more like a classical player because of the weight distribution then there is no choice. So an excuse to to bow shopping :)
LOVE this! I have NEVER felt comfortable holding it the 'normal' way...my fingers and hand look like it belongs to a T-Rex! I hold the bow with my little finger off and my fingers up further and it is so much more comfortable! I'm sure purists would hate my bow hold! 😂
Yes!! I think it's so silly to assume that "one" bowhold is going to work for everyone. Good on you for finding a way that works for you!
It's also a common Donnegal style hold
You know, that’s probably where I first picked it up is learning from a couple of Donegal fiddlers at the Blas summer school! Great point!
@@HannahHarrisCeol mairéad ní mhaoinaigh from Altan/Clannad uses it most famously a Donnegal girl. Whose father wrote what The Corrs coined as Louth Erin Shore
Thank you for your information. I don't play the fiddle but I would like to try and because I have arthritis this may help me.
Oh I hope it does! The world can always use another fiddler :) You are most welcome!
Hi Hannah. Very good tip. A shorter amount of bow is better for the tunes. My dad uses a 3/4 bow and prefers it.
That's so neat, Stan! Have you tried the 3/4 bow too? Thanks so much!
@@HannahHarrisCeol I did. I used to own that bow Dad uses now. I played with it for about four years.
The classical bow hold can produce ‘shaker bow’ whilst performing which is not ideal. Máiread ní mhaoinaigh of Altan & So many Cape Brenton fiddle seem to as well. I think the shorter and quicker fiddle Bowing the longer the distance between the bow/ string contact point to bow hold point will provide shaker bow on fast tunes easily. We are not classical players and I think there might need to be a fiddler acceptance group hahaha our technical bag is very different
Oh, you should have told me that you made a birthday present (12.08) for me last year :-). Thank you so much!
May i ask were is your thumb i cant see it
I'm an adult, not complete beginner but not intermediate. I can read music, I can pick out the music easily. First position notes, no problem at all. However, there's no other way to say this, my bowing sucks balls. My dog looks at me like "Seriously, it doesn't take that long to kill a cat." I'm very close to being able to tune by ear. Intonation, I can tell right away when I'm off by even a little. I'm beginning to think a fiddle bow is a tool of the devil. I can get a good sound bowing open strings, just long, slow bows and I love how it feels, just the sound combined with the physical sensation is unbelievable. But if I'm playing anything faster than a half note, I make my own ears bleed. My bow is straight but changing direction sounds terrible. Can you recommend anything? I understand bowing is the hardest part so am I just impatient?
Hi Amy! Thanks so much for your question, and it's lovely to connect with you on here! I'd be curious to see what you're doing with your bow that makes the direction change an unpleasant experience for you. Some areas where you can do a bit of self assessment are parameter: how much bow are you using (while you can use long flowy bows in Irish music, it doesn't take much bow to create a full sound with practice). The other area I'd look at is weight and speed -- how much are you leaning into the string? Does the bow bounce when you change direction, or does it sound crunchy? The first means you'll want more connection with the string and the second means you may want to speed the bow up and lighten the amount of weight you're putting into the string. Let me know if you have questions on that!
@@HannahHarrisCeol Wow, your good, that was fast. Thank you. I'm having trouble holding the bow. I'm 63, rheumatoid arthritis plus as you age your fingerprint ridges flatten and you don't produce much oil so your grip gets crappy. Great time to take up the fiddle. I finally broke down and got a bow buddy. It helps but it's bulky. I'm tempted to modify it a little. I nearly had heart failure putting it on. Unscrew the bow hair?🤤
I have occasional bow bounce but not often, I only get the skitters when I get mad at the bow. I have a squeal when the bow starts and stops. I had a hard time breaking myself of the habit of picking up the bow anytime I stopped, like beginners do. The sort of start stop start stop. I pick the notes, mandolin like, until I'm familiar so I'm not looking at the strings. I'm not sure about how tight the bow should be. I've found if it's to tight it bounces, too loose skitter. I'm looking for the Goldilocks zone.
I don't know how you do it. I could never teach this. The sound makes my teeth itch. You must have the patience of Jobe. You make it look so easy. Your fingers look like they barely touch the strings. I grew up with Uncles who played. Went to many contests here in Texas.
For as aggravated as I get, when I realize I've improved, even the tiniest bit, it just makes me so happy. Thank you for these videos, you just don't know how much they help.
@@AVToth aww you are most welcome! That's really good to hear that they're helping the way I was hoping they would! My Goldilocks zone for the bow tightness is sticking a pinky finger in between the stick + hair. Depending on humidity and other environmental influences this can change even in the span of a few minutes so it's good to keep checking in on the tension every so often.
@@HannahHarrisCeol When you stick your pinky between stick and hair, is hair supposed to touch pinky? If so, barely or that your finger goes between, touches finger but the contact doesn't disturb the line the hair is on, if that makes any sense. Or does finger go between with slight but complete clearance?
OR
For crying out loud, tighten til your pinky goes between. After that, tighten or loosen until the screeching, skittering, and/or bouncing stops.
(If I was a teacher, of adults, of adult women, this is one of the questions that would eventually drive me to drink. My response would end up "Lady, if you want a more precise answer then stick a crowbar in your wallet and pay for a class!"
Probably wouldn't have a lot of students.
You are one of the things that make You Tube magic. Where else can you learn to play the fiddle and learn to build a thermonuclear device out of gum wrappers, a q-tip and a couple bobby pins?
@@AVToth ahaha this is great -- I'm typically feeling a bit of resistance both from the stick and the hair, but it does clear. Might have to throw this in a future tutorial so I can demonstrate it visually! :D
Very cool video and thank you for his! Do you find the Irish bowhold prevents you from doing classical music or impacts your ability to have the dynamic range that a classical bowhold has? I have used the classical bowhold all of my violin playing life and it feels constricting so just wondering your thoughts. I'll definitely give the Irish bowhold a shot! :)
Hey, great question and you are so welcome! I actually had a classical gig about a week and a half ago, and it didn't negatively affect my tone at all. The baroque pieces were easier if you take into account the shorter baroque bows! That being said, I'm sure a lot of my former private teachers would say I shied away from the frog even as a classical student (lol), so I always recommend being able to do both if you're going to try the alternate option!
@@HannahHarrisCeol Lol I, too, shed away from the frog. My teacher always said that I play with the top half more than anything else and used to make me do drills at the frog! Good memories, hahaha. I'll definitely play around with it all and see what works for me. I don't play publicly any more (injuries and body issues) but when I do get time in to practice, my bow is my weakest part. Hopefully a new hold will revitalize that!
I don't see this being used much in Scotland, where it would probably be less than ideal for airs and Strathspeys. In Irish sessions you mainly hear jigs, reels and polkas where it might work quite well. But a lot of the legendary Irish players use a conventional hold, so it's a personal choice - see Kevin Burke, Liz Carroll, Tommy Peoples etc as examples.
It is absolutely a personal choice! Like you said, quite a few of the greats use a conventional hold, while others use the one in this video. I would also say that being able to use more than one type of bow hold for different situations is an extremely valuable skill to build up. I.e. playing another genre like Scottish or even a fiddle style that uses more chopping and requires a flattened thumb -- or playing a session in a crowded pub setting where you're shoulder to shoulder with other players and really don't have the space to use a lower bow hold. Next time I see Scottish trad played live, I'm going to keep an eye on how they hold their bows out of curiosity. It's so neat to observe the individual mechanics of different players! :)
@@HannahHarrisCeol One of the things I enjoy about the trad world compared to snootier world of classical music is the much wider range of acceptable options for technique and style.
I've jammed with fabulous musicians who play with the fiddle on their chest, and with all kinds of bow holds and left hand positions. Because we don't have to worry about fancy schmancy Italianate virtuoso techniques pretty much anything can be made to work.
Each to their own, as you say.
The main exception, in my experience, is Scottish Strathspey playing in the east coast style. It's quite technical, and most of the top exponents use a fairly conventional technique.
@@tullochgorum6323 I believe it! I have a book of Neil Gow compositions that definitely require a lot of the technique I developed in the classical world -- so interesting to hear about the different playing styles! That's an area I'd love to learn more about. :)
@@HannahHarrisCeol The North East Scottish style (Doric Style) can be quite Italianate. It requires a relatively sophisticated bow technique, especially the Strathspeys and Slow Strathspeys.
Many of the top composers and exponents have a classical background.
For example Scott Skinner had a good classical training from a member of the Halle Orchestra in Manchester.
The Scots tradition is perhaps less well known than the Irish, but it's it's a vast and varied world that's well worth exploring - including the Doric style, the West Highland style, the Shetland style, the Donegal style of the Scots emigres in Ireland, and the Cape Breton style of the Scots emigres in Canada.
@@tullochgorum6323 I would say of those I'm most familiar with Cape Breton, Donegal and a tad bit of Shetland -- definitely room to learn more though! Thank you for sharing!
l've been playing fiddle for a couple months now, self taught, and l find the higher grip to be way more instinctive when playing, the only problems l come across is that l have less bowlength for long notes and that l get cramps quite easily when l'm playing fast, if anyone has advice on that please lemme know :)
Hi Henrik! Thanks for watching and being a subscriber. I would shorten your bow length for faster-paced/more note-y tunes like reels, jigs and hornpipes. You really only need to use long bows for airs, slow airs and maybe waltzes. As for the cramping, hopefully that goes away with shorter bows, but if it doesn't I'd have a professional check your technique and see if you need to hold the instrument differently. While you're exercising new muscles it's natural to be a little sore, but any major pain isn't good. Let me know if I can be of more support to you in this area!
@@HannahHarrisCeol o my god thank you so much for the information that's actually really helpful! l'll let you know if there's anything l come across. Here? or do you have another platform?
@@henrikdewolf6154 you are so welcome! I'm so happy it helped! And here is fine, or you can also DM me on Instagram! @hannahharrisceol
Are any of your fingers on the hairs? or strickley on the stick
Hi Rebecca! I try to keep them mostly on the stick, but it's possible with the angle I use that there's some contact with the inner hairs on the bow. Since I'm not using a lot of the frog or lower half, this isn't as big an issue but for other styles, you'll want to minimize getting finger oils on the bow hair for longer durability and better tone quality!
I just started fiddling a few months ago so I have no idea what I'm talking about, but is this grip used because shorter bows are better for dancing music?
Hi Kenney, sorry I missed seeing this! You do tend to need less bow for the faster dance tunes, so a lot of fiddlers prefer this grip to get more bow control since they don't need to play all the way down at the frog.
@@HannahHarrisCeol hey thanks for replying! That makes sense! I've been working on using this grip and I do find it a bit easier to control. I've also seen smaller looking bows in videos that kind of look like baroque bows, I'd love to try something like that.
@@KenneyCmusic ooo yes, baroque bows or something similar would be really cool to try with Irish trad music. If you end up giving it a go, I'd love to hear what you think!
Please back to youtube and continue
None of the great Irish/Scottish fiddlers use this bow hold as far as I can see. Thinking Kevin Burke, Ali Bain, Martin Hayes, Hanneke Cassell and others. Reviewing your videos, you actually hold the bow a lot closer to the frog than in this video.
It would never have occurred to me to try a higher bow hold if I hadn't observed other teachers using it in masterclasses! Bríd Harper, Connie O'Connell, Winifred Horan, Cathal Hayden for example. Depending on the day, I will hold the bow a bit closer to the frog but still higher than what my classical hold would have been. I love the variation in this music -- both in the notes itself and in the way the instrument can be held and played well!
I think if you look at Martin Hayes you will see he does hold his bow higher
I'm a classical player, but for certain Jig tunes and some bluegrass music I find this a fun alternative, double stops seem easier to control too. For me it is an option depending on the style of music being played. Learn both and adapt as necessary, like everything in life, one size never fits all!
Please don't refer to this as an "Irish bow hold". It's merely an alternative bow hold that's probably far more common amongst OT players than anyone else. There is no such thing as an "Irish bow hold" and many players (including almost all of the greats) use a normal bow hold. It's perpetuating a falsehood to refer to it as this. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing your opinion, Corin! I agree that "alternative" is a better term for this bowhold and it's certainly not exclusive to an Irish traditional style (although I first observed it from multiple fiddlers I would consider as "greats" in Limerick). I love that there are multiple bow hold styles out there and that it's so individual to the player -- and it's important for students to know there are options outside of what's typically taught in classical music. I appreciate you!
Sharon Corr from The Corrs uses this!