The Customer BROKE A Main Stud Off In Their BRAND NEW LS Block...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ธ.ค. 2024
- Shoutout to @EngineRehab for renting me his Gen III LS Main Bearing Bolt Thread Timesert Kit!
A customer left me a voicemail about a sheared off main bolt in his reman LM7 block... This is the type of phone call we typically choose to ignore (kidding lol).
One shop already told him to junk the block, but I said we'd give it a shot. Here are the results!
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For business inquires: Contact info@jamsionline.com
#timesert #automotivemachining #jimsautomotivemachineshop - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Shoutout to @EngineRehab for renting me his Gen III LS Main Bearing Bolt Thread Timesert Kit! 🤡
Hell yea!!!! That was nice of him
I bet you will get one on order!! Good job!!
How much does this job cost?
Great job!
Nice work. I have used 100's of Timeserts over the last 20+ years and have never had 1 fail.
I worked in the tool and die field for 50 years running stamping presses with tonnages up to 100 tons and smaller presses running up to 2200 strokes a minute. I've had my share of broken, sheared & stripped bolts and threads in very expensive dies and equipment. Such repairs as time certs, thread savers and sometimes helicoils saved time and money. I don't ever remember having a failed repair. The most tedious part is proper alignment. This block should be just fine.
Dido , A repair as good as original thread 😉
The Rolls-Royce Merlin was made with thread inserts in every bolt hole. Not cheap or rapid manufacturing but it was extremely reliable.
I have been known to use EDM and make a broken fastener go away and send a tap in for freshing h the original threads. Takes time however, the deed is amazing on the end of repair. Stupid hard metals can be tackled with EDM and results are darned nice.
I really enjoy watching you guys. I'm an old man myself and remember being able to find an excellent machine shop in every town, then within an hour drive, then within a few hours drive, and now it's unbelievably difficult to find one and you have to end up buying new components. Guys like yourself and your father are going extinct, but maybe your presence on the internet will inspire a younger generation to learn time-honored and valued skills! It can also help demonstrate how you rescue amateur mistakes like this! Any of us old motorheads know you don't begin assembling a block without cleaning all threads with appropriate taps.
Nice touch on the drill press when you were drilling out the old fastener. Take your time, don't horse it, let the drill bit do the work. I'd be 100% thrilled with that fix.
Nice save. I have had some success removing bolt and stud "shells" with left hand twist drills.
My same thought and then I noticed his keyless chuck which will just "un-chuck" when running in reverse
(ccw). Switching to a Jacobs will do it...
Other shop: "Scrap the block" JAMS Inc: "Hold my beer"
Jams... hold my camera 📷 🤪
I think that other shop was trolling. Even without the timesert, it could have been possible to use a stepped stud, or drill out the main and fit a larger bolt. torquing would be difficult, but nothing a dial gauge couldn't handle. who has that kind of money to throw away a brand new block.
@@martin-vv9lf Other shop: "We'll take if off your hands. It's scrap". NOT
I thought that was a little wild for a machine shop to say that
@@martin-vv9lfSo what’s worse, a shop saying they can’t do the work, or a shop “trolling” in an attempt to upsell?
What I've learned over the years, much by my own mistakes, is for me, it's best to hire a specialty engine machine shop like yours to assemble a long block to the specs I want. I think it saves money long term.
Ok but at that point why not buy a brand new car instead of rebuilding an engine? 😅
@@AlessioSangalli Depends on the shop, not always super expensive and sometimes its nice to have a second set on hands and eyes on a project. Even still every refresh is 99% of the time a deck and head surface etc.
I always check their work myself. That pays off every time.
@@AlessioSangalli You must be Scrooge McDuck, swimming around in your vault full of gold coins, if you can make statements that contemptuous.
@@GGigabiteMjust yesterday I removed the engine of my 20 years old car and I will take it to an automotive machine shop as soon as my health allows it.
Another way to drill out sraight is to clamp it down on Bridgeport mill table Use the right size carbide end mill And index it from the hole on each side of bad one Cant move at all and i have found that a drill bit has flex in it Where end mill doesn’t
I was coming down here to say something like this. I've always found an end mill better for removing a botched bolt than a drill. Drills flex and can go off angle, especially with different hardnesses of bolt vs parent material, but end mills never do in my experience.
It is possible to run into a length issue with end mills, though.
This is how we do it although we use high speed steel end mills since 90% of the time we are removing a broken tap and we consider them sacrificial. But it's way cheaper than scrapping the piece and starting over.
Exactly.
If you have the machine, use a vert. mill.
I've managed many times to bore out a stud then pull out the threads like a coilspring.
@@TheHonestL1ar Even if your endmill isn't long enough, it'll still give you a great flat surface to work with and you can use a center drill to give yourself a perfect start to follow up with the proper size drill bit. Once a drill bit is started straight and it's cutting evenly across both sides it'll go straight but trying to start a drill bit directly on the broken bolt without first cleaning it up is asking for trouble if you need tight tolerances.
@@WhoThisGuy515 so you cut hss with hss?
I seeing you line up the hole with the drill bit, I was reminded that we had a set of drill bit blanks that were for just that purpose. You can take the blank and chuck it and there are no cutting edges to worry about as you place it in the hole. The other thing we used the blank drills for was as references for sizing.
I would have welded the hole shut with an inferior metal like slag and shoved a little bit of JB and had the shipping crate readily to go.
Awesome work as usual. The timeserts seem to be a legit fix. Always a good feeling to make a solid repair and save a project 👍🏼
Much better than Helicoil in my opinion.
@prevost8686 Torque test channel did a video comparing helicoil to timesert, among other thread repair solutions, all in cast iron. The helicoil actually did better than the timesert. 🤷
I mean, we used them to repair cylinder head threads, at the GM dealership I worked at. I know, dealerships can have their hacks, but this repair was actually engineered up, and passed down to us mechanics on the service info website. I actually had a GM engineer ask me if we could unbolt the rack and pinion from the cradle of a 2002 (was new at the time) Cavalier, and drive it. If you have to think about it, think about it, and then remember that request came from an engineer.
@@Spike-sk7qlthat’s funny stuff right there, lol. I know I’d like beat some down my self lol.
@@stevehicks8944several tests show helicoils are stronger.
The only place time serts excel are where threads are used that will have bolts run in and out several times
When I rebuilt my 360 (5.9l Magnum) for my Dodge truck, every orifice was cleaned with a brush and rinsed well to remove debris. Each bolt hole had a thread chase run down it to make sure it was clean and ready for install.
I did not overhaul a lot of engines in my time in the automotive field. Things were changing, and it was becoming cheaper to replace heads, blocks, accessories, and so on, the way we did it when I started.
Having said that, in those early years, the guy who taught me how to rebuild an engine would probably have beat my ass if I didn't run a tap down through every single threaded hole on the block and the head(s). It's beyond tedious, but it can save this type of situation exactly.
Clean them out first then use a fluted/flared tap then a bottoming/plug tap with cutting fluid.
@@shadowopsairman1583 And good luck even finding the bottoming taps, unless you special-order them ahead of time. You'll most likely get a blank stare if you go into most hardware stores these days and ask for one.
Taps are really too aggressive just for cleaning an existing threaded hole. When I built my engine, I seen that everyone swore by a thread chasing kit. Decent ones are pricey, but they clean the threads, and straighten threads, while cutting at a minimum. I cleaned every single threaded hole with this kit.
In the energy generation field we chase every hole with bolts before reassembling. We only chase with a tap if we find an issue.
@@redmondjp Potting soil and paint ,sure!
"LM7" engine, my God what a great engine! I love it! Great save with this repair done! Hello from TEXAS!
As soon as you flashed that huge tap that “funny/not funny” scenario you mentioned popped into my head. Glad it didn’t go that way 😅
There was a time where thread repair inserts were questionable. The technology and techniques have improved to the point where they provide a strong and durable repair. Most blocks will go to "engine heaven" with this repair still in place. Nice job!
In a lot of cases you're better off running a whole set of timeserts through these old blocks - it's often a better result than using the old block threads.
I agree in some cases. I revert to "If it isn't broken don't fix it". If the rebuild is a factory spec'd project I'd leave it alone. But yes, if the power output is going to be significantly increased the old threads may be the weak spot in the bottom end.
I used timeserts for broken bolts in the alloy swingarm on my motorcycle. Definitely stronger now than they were originally
I use left hand drills to remove broken studs. If a stud starts to move it will come out with the direction of the drill rotation,,,, hope this helps
This. This is stud/bolt removal 101. No reason not to do this.
Was wondering why this method was not tried.
Left hand drill bit works well for cases such as when the bolt head snapped off, and there is no real tension on the bolt threads. However, in my experience, it doesn't work well when the threads are gummed up by dirt, corrosion, or thread locker.
@@superbarnie How about when the bolt is stretched as in torqued? I've had shit for luck extracting or drilling anything out that's been snapped off.
@@Guillotines_For_Globalists The bolt stretches because the threads are pulling the bolt down the threads while the bolt head is keeping the top part from going in any further, thereby stretching the bolt.
However, once the head snaps off, then there is no longer tension on the bolt because the head isn't holding it anymore. If the broken bolt in the threads isn't turning with a small amount of force then it is because of friction in the threads. This could be because the threads are dirty or stuck or seized for whatever reason. In those cases it is very unlikely that a left hand drill bit will be able to exert enough torque to turn it out.
Another method I've had success with is welding a nut or bolt to the broken fastener to be able to turn it out. The heat helps a lot to burn off any contaminants in the threads, and the expansion and contraction can break chemical bonds in the threads. Of course, this method is only application when the broken bolt is accessible with a welder.
In the end, bolt extraction is a shit show and there is no guaranteed way to success. If all else fails, try to see if you find a broken drill/tap/bolt specialist with a EDM machine, they can often work miracles.
Awesome fix, thanks for sharing the timesert part number for the specific timesert kit. And thanks for the great content.
Awesome work as usual. I love watching engines being machined, assembled, and torn down. Take care guys. Those Timesert's are awesome tools for sure.
They are the only game in TOWN today for that thread. Unless you make a special one.
That time certs will last forever. We used to do the 4.6 Northstars all the time and never had and issues with the time cert failing.
Nice job! I cant believe another 'shop' said "Just junk the (brand new) block" before even attempting to do anything to fix it. Teels you alot about the state of everything nowadays.... pretty sad to hear. A 'machine shop' that doesn't want to fix something as simple like this is pathetic. Hell I've seen some of these guys repair a broken main, or something else. It all comes down to how qualified they are. Nice vid, and thanks for diing the right thing and not taking the easy way out like the 'other' guy did. And thanks to your friend @EngineRehab for his assistance too, I'll have to check him out too.
I'm surprised you didn't at least start off with a left-hand drill bit. Iv walked out sooo many drill outs that way saving the original threads. It's obviously never a guarantee, but it's always my goal to try and save the original threads.
This! It works in the majority of cases.
YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD YES - YES START WITH LEFT HAND DRILL I'VE DONE HUNDREDS 😊
Nice bit of metal surgery there. Back in the day when I was in the workshop, 🦋we learnt fast in not being overzealous with parts, and we did a good job. You got to develop a good hand and a keen eye.🐞
Customer probably should have had you check line bore. Yes, that insert should have not changed anything but I am thinking more so, did the last shop actually check it.
Great Job getting the old stud-out and repairing the hole. owner will be very happy to have his LS Block back..
It last just fine. Ive actually had to heli coil main bolt holes in race engines. Not a preferred deal but sometimes you got to do what you got to do
Emergency use of silicon on a blown head gasket is a thing.
We use a Carbide endmill and a Pure Carbide drill bit and pull out the threads or dill till the threads look like a Helicoil, OR we tap the block for 7/16 threads and put in a ARP stud,
That is the real FIX and linehone the block.
I fix others people’s foulups all the time. No good deed goes unpunished. Picture a shop the size of two Costcos. I use a milling machine, NOT a freaking drill press. I hold the part securely and locate the problem hole exactly. For a fastener I flatten the top and use a spot drill, then a left hand drill under the minor size of the thread. The left hand drill might loosen the fastener and back it out so I’m ready on the quill to let it happen. Then I try an “Easy out”. If that didn’t work, I interpolate out to the minor hole size feeding down manually ready for the remainder to come out. If it doesn’t, all that’s left is the helical thread that be picked, pealed or wiggled out. Taps are a bit more complicated and carbide can burned out but in all cases you got to be dead on and rigid. The worst thing is when some monkey tried and failed, further complicating or necessitating a Heilicoil or Keensert.
I have built multiple handfuls of those engines and have never had a main bolt issue. Also, with the arp studs, it should be line honed.
the ARP studs will be more precise than factory; the register in the block determines alignment
@donwest5387 it is still recommended to line hone the block with fastener upgrades as well as connecting rods be checked and resized if needed. Of course, cracked style rods can't be done.
@@donwest5387totally agree! No metal was removed from the cap or the block.
Now, they might want to line hone the mains.
In my opinion, I'd run it like it is.
Our shop has several EDM sinker machines. You can take a piece of copper tubing and burn out broken bolts, taps, etc. in short time.
Don't forget all HARD crap we can remover also and save the threads with our picks.
Just got done doing a kia sedona block, overheated and pulled the threads out the block, cutting threads will test your nerves lol
Well done. You have the right tooling and skills for making the end result better than new!
I love the way you blinked the first time the torque wrench clicked on the new main thread😂. I knew exactly how you felt; whether it's lower or upper mains, the excitement of waiting for the click is always good to get the old heart racing!
Once I made a new thread for the timing chain idler sprocket on an aluminum head, no inserts but that final click of the torque wrench feels nice.
It does indeed. I redid an old Kawasaki bike and when I tightened down the head studs (special long oversize-thread bolts), I was swearing for the last 10Nm :D @@JavoCover
Outstanding save n that block, thank you for your time!
Another great tool to add to the shop is a set of LH twist drills. They will pay for them selves in one successful use.
Good point. LH drill can remove the bolt by itself during the drilling, while RH can tighten the bolt even more. Choose what fits your needs.
Clean and solid. Looks like a win. Thanks for letting us look over your shoulder.
I have used time certs for years and they are a solid fix for little mistakes
Good job. Usually that’s stressful to watch. Not bad … going at a reasonable pace and clearing the chips is a thing of beauty.
Man i tool metal shop and loved it...i thought i would be doing emgine work.. fab.. everything.. but i am so high strung.. all over the place.. after watching your show seems like everryone is so mellow and chill...
Love the TCM 25-used one for 25+ tears and it was versatile and unbeatable! The forearm rest on the spoke wheel comes in very handy!
It’s great watching what you guys do on a daily basis. Top notch work.
Always fun to watch careful machinists.
Hopefully the aftermarket internals keep up their quality.
Love to watch you fix a problem, out standing!!!
Will you need to check the main bore alignment now ..I was always told when you put studs you need to align bore
I’m certain blocks it’s a 9/10 times you’ll get the main bores line honed. I’ve found that iron Ls stuff does not shift when installing studs. The aluminum blocks are a 50/50.
I still get mine all aligned out regardless
Hi Nick, excellent job. With bolts I think it will last a long time, With studs forever! Will that repair have any effect on the line bore? Does it need to be checked??
I love Timeserts. I've accumulated a few kits over the years. I made a mint on Northstar head bolt holes with the Timesert fixture. Ford Triton plugs, too.
Torque Test Channel did an aweome video on different thread repair methods. I would feel 100% confident in that repair at any power level. Also as I'm sure you know, most Loctite products get stronger over time.
kinda nice you suggested that folks weren't incapable of removing broken studs but that they don't have the proper tools. That's called respect
Have to remember I ONLY see the FAILED bolt extraction attempts. The successful ones never have to come to me lol! So my viewpoint may be skewed 😀
👍👍
I'm not a machinist but love watching you guys work your magic.
I'm so glad for you guys' channel and videos, I'd never have known engine shop capabilities otherwise!
Its good folk like you that save good folk like me from getting heart attacks, if that happened to me I would be needing a few G & T's and a cold pack on my brain.
Nice to see you just shrug your shoulders and sort it "all in a days work" Brilliant my friend yet another good video of a craftsman doing his craft.
All the best from across the pond.👍👍🤜
For old alloy cases and heads of old motorcycles, I ve found that broken studs are rarer than stripped threads , alignment to the original hole location is crucial, helps if you have a mating component as a jig.
Just done 3 helicoils 3/16 Whit x24 tpi today, find older pre-wind inserting tools much superior. Timesert 14mm spark plug insert, copper coated solid much superior than helicoils, at least on air cooled heads.
Have found that left hand drills can be a great help in winding out broken studs, but ONLY with a keyed chuck!!
Great video, I must be older even than the Cleaning Guy..any thanks from 'over the pond'
Thanks for the tutorial. I over torqued a head bolt on a chev small block when I was starting out. A friens came and helped me check true and drill and tap for a heli-coil
Nice save on the block I’m sure the customer will be very pleased Awesome job.
Fresh and clean block, yes it can be saved, dirty blocks are more of a challenge
Good job! Really enjoy watching the quality work you and your dad do at your shop!
Phenomenal result. Great work as always
Great Job with an assist from Engine Rehab!
Question: Is there any concern with the counterbore being larger? I assume it's not used for locating the caps so it should be fine but I'm not sure.
I believe the only function of the counterbore is clearance because they don't need to thread the entire depth of the hole and of course to clear the non threaded part of the bolt
Something a little different. Nice to see it came out well, but it is JAMSI after all! I suppose you guys will buy one of these kits now?
You should try som left hand drillbit’s. Great Tool when you have broken bolts.
I thought I was the only one to go back and double click everything, just to make sure! Great job, the cleaning guy taught you patience.
Ton of engineering and thought put into that timesert tool. Very nice. Excellent work done on the block!
That's a rock solid repair. I don't see why that won't last the life of the block, as long as they use quality parts and read instructions and follow them on installing the studs. I wish I could find a competent machine shop like you guys in Az.
I had to drill a starter bolt hole ... in a 400 sm. block after the engine was installed. 1985 or so. Long drill bit and some patience. NOTHING LIKE THIS MESS. Great job!! Great videos!!
Back in day timeserts had four spurs that you drove down into threads that you made for insert this locked it into place.
If that doesn't work or you don't feel comfortable building it because of possible cap alignment or walking I have a nos LM7 gen three block in the original crate I can send you!! Might be the last one out there! Love your videos guys!!!
Good job my guy! Takes real skill to fix someone's fu** up when they already tried drilling it as well...
What is the thread size and pitch of the mains studs? I'm pretty sure it would be metric those thread repair kits last forever. If done correctly.
Great content man. Video quality, sound, the whole thing. Exceptional content. Great to see a younger generation in our trade. Thanks man.
Much appreciated!
I just wanted to ask Did you re-tap the rest of the holes that had sand in them, so He doesn't do the same thing again.I have that same kit, and a ton of inserts, al sizes, Love those things.You can fix anything with patience. Great repair
Nice repair ! good video , suggestion maybe little limiter on air pressure for blow gun ?
I've used timesert many times in my career and I've never had one fail. Nice fix 👍
Was there a remnant of the old bolt in the bottom? Awesome job. Love watching this stuff. Is there a curing time for the locktite?
Left-hand cut drills.. Your new best friend for things like this.
If a bolt broke off because the threads bound up, you are screwed either way, Left hand drills are useful for broken bolts that break from overtorque or shearing off. Bound threads or rusty threads generally make left hand drills exactly as useful as right hand drills. However, if you are going to drill it anyways, a left hand drill is your best bet, in case you get lucky.
I snaped a main bolt in my 5.3. Luckily it threaded right out. Went and bought ARP main studs.
I LOVE time-sert.... sure they are so expensive, but DAMN how nice did that work out? It's the definition of having the right tool for the right job :) - a JOY to work with even though they are $$$$
Salt water cooled Chevrolet marine based engines have head bolts that go into the water jackets. Doing a valve job on an older engine would sometimes pull the threads out of the block deck on final torque. Off came the head. Spent a lot of time squaring the drill to the block while working on a 45 degree surface in a sometimes cramped bilge. Put bolts in adjacent holes to visibly establish 90 degrees in both directions. Drilled by hand with a portable drill. Then had to square the Helicoil tap the same way. Installed the Helicoil and broke the tab into the water jacket.Then held my breath when final torqueing. Also ran a tap into all 32-34 block threads using a battery drill with the screw clutch set as loose as possible. Clutch would slip if the tap bound up or if it cross threaded when starting . It allways worked! I know now that I was supposed to use thread chasers which I now have. No machine shop precision but good results anyway. Probably could have used the head as a guide for the drill bit but still has to remove the head to install the Helicoil.
Nice!
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
I just installed a Timesert in a Ford Model A block. It's a great product.
Question? Green thread locker, is it because the way the threads are cut for the insert? Ive got my self in trouble with red thread locker. Like the videos please keep it up, thanks!
Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried using Reverse Cut drill bits? Since the cutting edge is turning the same direction the bolt would turn coming out, it can end up backing the bolt out. If it doesn't, you still end up drilling out the bolt. This was taught to me by an old school mechanic, and I have used to with 50/50 success.
Ah yes the old school term.
I have a set of left hand drill bits. 9 times out of 10 the bit will grab the broken stud or bolt and back it out. You can feel when the bit grabs and then you let the pressure off and come right out.
No substitute for a good machine shop - treat these people right and be friends for life!
Found it very interesting and yes you seem to do an extremely professional workmanship.......
Good work.
Thanks!
Small trick I use is I get an old head bolt or mains bolt weld the threads a little and use that to wind the time sert in.
Then, you come in with the expander tool.
I've had the expander tool spread the insert early, this is a big pain in a hole.
Once you wind the insert in with an old bolt, you use a rattle gun to wind it out.
It is amazing what can be done and salvaged with the correct tools and experience.
TimeSerts kick ass. They make HeliCoil look like epoxy. (JB is a nice fellow but he'll only go so far)
I believe that it is gonna last, The reason being because you did it. And you have the proper tools to do everything.
Love the videos.👍👈🌝
Hi thank you for your video's when i served my time i was always told for the price of a drill cut the fluting parts of the drill and use the stud to line up the miller with the original hole
As far as I'm concerned you NAILED it on setting up.
This is what I do when removing broken screws from guns.
Without a mill type set up you're doomed to failure.
👍
My drill and tap jigs for firearms are just a smaller version of your jig with D&T bushings. Pretty cool to see an upscaled application.
Good job !! Glad to see I am not the only one using the TCM for more than cylinder heads :) Just curious, what bore scope is that you are using ?
Nice!! You guys do great work you and you’re dad are super professionals!!!
Great video. Out of pure curiosity- why would you bother just put in a thicker main stud into the larger threaded hole in the block? It seems to me that the Tynesert just adds risk?
My 2009 Harley-Davidson Heritage Softail had Heli-coils in many of the threaded aluminum holes. They were stronger threads than the aluminum threads were. My 1966 Corvair Monza has a few in it as well.
Very interesting, loved watching machinist work! Great Job!
looks good i used same type of set to repair block head bolts on honda v6
If you go in with a full bore size 140 degree spot drill then a left hand drill that is at the tapping diameter you can either pull the stud right out or drill and pull the wire of the threads right out. Of course, you need to do this with a well-trammed mill. I always send a tap back through it too. Although I think the good inserts are just as good.
Nothing like seeing a job done right .. and that job was superb.
A couple of suggestions.
Try a left-handed drill first. You might have got the remains of the stud out without having to do the repair.
Buy your shop a bottle of ANCHORLUBE cutting paste. It tends to stay put and works on almost any metal. Highly recommended for drilling and tapping.
Thanks for the video.
Hell yea, that'll last. Good job brother
That was an awesome job. Respect to you sir.