The Customer BROKE A Main Stud Off In Their BRAND NEW LS Block...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ม.ค. 2024
- Shoutout to @EngineRehab for renting me his Gen III LS Main Bearing Bolt Thread Timesert Kit!
A customer left me a voicemail about a sheared off main bolt in his reman LM7 block... This is the type of phone call we typically choose to ignore (kidding lol).
One shop already told him to junk the block, but I said we'd give it a shot. Here are the results!
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#timesert #automotivemachining #jimsautomotivemachineshop - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Shoutout to @EngineRehab for renting me his Gen III LS Main Bearing Bolt Thread Timesert Kit! 🤡
Hell yea!!!! That was nice of him
I bet you will get one on order!! Good job!!
How much does this job cost?
Great job!
Nice work. I have used 100's of Timeserts over the last 20+ years and have never had 1 fail.
I worked in the tool and die field for 50 years running stamping presses with tonnages up to 100 tons and smaller presses running up to 2200 strokes a minute. I've had my share of broken, sheared & stripped bolts and threads in very expensive dies and equipment. Such repairs as time certs, thread savers and sometimes helicoils saved time and money. I don't ever remember having a failed repair. The most tedious part is proper alignment. This block should be just fine.
Dido , A repair as good as original thread 😉
The Rolls-Royce Merlin was made with thread inserts in every bolt hole. Not cheap or rapid manufacturing but it was extremely reliable.
I have been known to use EDM and make a broken fastener go away and send a tap in for freshing h the original threads. Takes time however, the deed is amazing on the end of repair. Stupid hard metals can be tackled with EDM and results are darned nice.
Other shop: "Scrap the block" JAMS Inc: "Hold my beer"
Jams... hold my camera 📷 🤪
I think that other shop was trolling. Even without the timesert, it could have been possible to use a stepped stud, or drill out the main and fit a larger bolt. torquing would be difficult, but nothing a dial gauge couldn't handle. who has that kind of money to throw away a brand new block.
@@martin-vv9lf Other shop: "We'll take if off your hands. It's scrap". NOT
I thought that was a little wild for a machine shop to say that
@@martin-vv9lfSo what’s worse, a shop saying they can’t do the work, or a shop “trolling” in an attempt to upsell?
I really enjoy watching you guys. I'm an old man myself and remember being able to find an excellent machine shop in every town, then within an hour drive, then within a few hours drive, and now it's unbelievably difficult to find one and you have to end up buying new components. Guys like yourself and your father are going extinct, but maybe your presence on the internet will inspire a younger generation to learn time-honored and valued skills! It can also help demonstrate how you rescue amateur mistakes like this! Any of us old motorheads know you don't begin assembling a block without cleaning all threads with appropriate taps.
Nice touch on the drill press when you were drilling out the old fastener. Take your time, don't horse it, let the drill bit do the work. I'd be 100% thrilled with that fix.
Nice save. I have had some success removing bolt and stud "shells" with left hand twist drills.
What I've learned over the years, much by my own mistakes, is for me, it's best to hire a specialty engine machine shop like yours to assemble a long block to the specs I want. I think it saves money long term.
Ok but at that point why not buy a brand new car instead of rebuilding an engine? 😅
@@AlessioSangalli Depends on the shop, not always super expensive and sometimes its nice to have a second set on hands and eyes on a project. Even still every refresh is 99% of the time a deck and head surface etc.
I always check their work myself. That pays off every time.
@@AlessioSangalli You must be Scrooge McDuck, swimming around in your vault full of gold coins, if you can make statements that contemptuous.
@@GGigabiteMjust yesterday I removed the engine of my 20 years old car and I will take it to an automotive machine shop as soon as my health allows it.
I did not overhaul a lot of engines in my time in the automotive field. Things were changing, and it was becoming cheaper to replace heads, blocks, accessories, and so on, the way we did it when I started.
Having said that, in those early years, the guy who taught me how to rebuild an engine would probably have beat my ass if I didn't run a tap down through every single threaded hole on the block and the head(s). It's beyond tedious, but it can save this type of situation exactly.
Clean them out first then use a fluted/flared tap then a bottoming/plug tap with cutting fluid.
@@shadowopsairman1583 And good luck even finding the bottoming taps, unless you special-order them ahead of time. You'll most likely get a blank stare if you go into most hardware stores these days and ask for one.
Taps are really too aggressive just for cleaning an existing threaded hole. When I built my engine, I seen that everyone swore by a thread chasing kit. Decent ones are pricey, but they clean the threads, and straighten threads, while cutting at a minimum. I cleaned every single threaded hole with this kit.
In the energy generation field we chase every hole with bolts before reassembling. We only chase with a tap if we find an issue.
@@redmondjp Potting soil and paint ,sure!
When I rebuilt my 360 (5.9l Magnum) for my Dodge truck, every orifice was cleaned with a brush and rinsed well to remove debris. Each bolt hole had a thread chase run down it to make sure it was clean and ready for install.
Awesome work as usual. The timeserts seem to be a legit fix. Always a good feeling to make a solid repair and save a project 👍🏼
Much better than Helicoil in my opinion.
@prevost8686 Torque test channel did a video comparing helicoil to timesert, among other thread repair solutions, all in cast iron. The helicoil actually did better than the timesert. 🤷
I mean, we used them to repair cylinder head threads, at the GM dealership I worked at. I know, dealerships can have their hacks, but this repair was actually engineered up, and passed down to us mechanics on the service info website. I actually had a GM engineer ask me if we could unbolt the rack and pinion from the cradle of a 2002 (was new at the time) Cavalier, and drive it. If you have to think about it, think about it, and then remember that request came from an engineer.
@@Spike-sk7qlthat’s funny stuff right there, lol. I know I’d like beat some down my self lol.
@@stevehicks8944several tests show helicoils are stronger.
The only place time serts excel are where threads are used that will have bolts run in and out several times
Another way to drill out sraight is to clamp it down on Bridgeport mill table Use the right size carbide end mill And index it from the hole on each side of bad one Cant move at all and i have found that a drill bit has flex in it Where end mill doesn’t
I was coming down here to say something like this. I've always found an end mill better for removing a botched bolt than a drill. Drills flex and can go off angle, especially with different hardnesses of bolt vs parent material, but end mills never do in my experience.
It is possible to run into a length issue with end mills, though.
This is how we do it although we use high speed steel end mills since 90% of the time we are removing a broken tap and we consider them sacrificial. But it's way cheaper than scrapping the piece and starting over.
Exactly.
If you have the machine, use a vert. mill.
I've managed many times to bore out a stud then pull out the threads like a coilspring.
@@TheHonestL1ar Even if your endmill isn't long enough, it'll still give you a great flat surface to work with and you can use a center drill to give yourself a perfect start to follow up with the proper size drill bit. Once a drill bit is started straight and it's cutting evenly across both sides it'll go straight but trying to start a drill bit directly on the broken bolt without first cleaning it up is asking for trouble if you need tight tolerances.
@@WhoThisGuy515 so you cut hss with hss?
I seeing you line up the hole with the drill bit, I was reminded that we had a set of drill bit blanks that were for just that purpose. You can take the blank and chuck it and there are no cutting edges to worry about as you place it in the hole. The other thing we used the blank drills for was as references for sizing.
As soon as you flashed that huge tap that “funny/not funny” scenario you mentioned popped into my head. Glad it didn’t go that way 😅
There was a time where thread repair inserts were questionable. The technology and techniques have improved to the point where they provide a strong and durable repair. Most blocks will go to "engine heaven" with this repair still in place. Nice job!
In a lot of cases you're better off running a whole set of timeserts through these old blocks - it's often a better result than using the old block threads.
I agree in some cases. I revert to "If it isn't broken don't fix it". If the rebuild is a factory spec'd project I'd leave it alone. But yes, if the power output is going to be significantly increased the old threads may be the weak spot in the bottom end.
I used timeserts for broken bolts in the alloy swingarm on my motorcycle. Definitely stronger now than they were originally
Awesome fix, thanks for sharing the timesert part number for the specific timesert kit. And thanks for the great content.
"LM7" engine, my God what a great engine! I love it! Great save with this repair done! Hello from TEXAS!
Well done. You have the right tooling and skills for making the end result better than new!
That time certs will last forever. We used to do the 4.6 Northstars all the time and never had and issues with the time cert failing.
Good job! Really enjoy watching the quality work you and your dad do at your shop!
Nice bit of metal surgery there. Back in the day when I was in the workshop, 🦋we learnt fast in not being overzealous with parts, and we did a good job. You got to develop a good hand and a keen eye.🐞
Always fun to watch careful machinists.
Hopefully the aftermarket internals keep up their quality.
Great Job getting the old stud-out and repairing the hole. owner will be very happy to have his LS Block back..
I'm surprised you didn't at least start off with a left-hand drill bit. Iv walked out sooo many drill outs that way saving the original threads. It's obviously never a guarantee, but it's always my goal to try and save the original threads.
This! It works in the majority of cases.
YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD YES - YES START WITH LEFT HAND DRILL I'VE DONE HUNDREDS 😊
Thank you for posting.
Outstanding save n that block, thank you for your time!
Phenomenal result. Great work as always
Those aftermarket china bolts sure are a bargain
Good job. Usually that’s stressful to watch. Not bad … going at a reasonable pace and clearing the chips is a thing of beauty.
I'm so glad for you guys' channel and videos, I'd never have known engine shop capabilities otherwise!
Ton of engineering and thought put into that timesert tool. Very nice. Excellent work done on the block!
Clean and solid. Looks like a win. Thanks for letting us look over your shoulder.
Love the TCM 25-used one for 25+ tears and it was versatile and unbeatable! The forearm rest on the spoke wheel comes in very handy!
Awesome work as usual. I love watching engines being machined, assembled, and torn down. Take care guys. Those Timesert's are awesome tools for sure.
They are the only game in TOWN today for that thread. Unless you make a special one.
I love the way you blinked the first time the torque wrench clicked on the new main thread😂. I knew exactly how you felt; whether it's lower or upper mains, the excitement of waiting for the click is always good to get the old heart racing!
Once I made a new thread for the timing chain idler sprocket on an aluminum head, no inserts but that final click of the torque wrench feels nice.
It does indeed. I redid an old Kawasaki bike and when I tightened down the head studs (special long oversize-thread bolts), I was swearing for the last 10Nm :D @@JavoCover
Just got done doing a kia sedona block, overheated and pulled the threads out the block, cutting threads will test your nerves lol
Great content man. Video quality, sound, the whole thing. Exceptional content. Great to see a younger generation in our trade. Thanks man.
Much appreciated!
Very interesting, loved watching machinist work! Great Job!
Thanks for the tutorial. I over torqued a head bolt on a chev small block when I was starting out. A friens came and helped me check true and drill and tap for a heli-coil
Nice!! You guys do great work you and you’re dad are super professionals!!!
Nice job! I cant believe another 'shop' said "Just junk the (brand new) block" before even attempting to do anything to fix it. Teels you alot about the state of everything nowadays.... pretty sad to hear. A 'machine shop' that doesn't want to fix something as simple like this is pathetic. Hell I've seen some of these guys repair a broken main, or something else. It all comes down to how qualified they are. Nice vid, and thanks for diing the right thing and not taking the easy way out like the 'other' guy did. And thanks to your friend @EngineRehab for his assistance too, I'll have to check him out too.
I have used time certs for years and they are a solid fix for little mistakes
For old alloy cases and heads of old motorcycles, I ve found that broken studs are rarer than stripped threads , alignment to the original hole location is crucial, helps if you have a mating component as a jig.
Just done 3 helicoils 3/16 Whit x24 tpi today, find older pre-wind inserting tools much superior. Timesert 14mm spark plug insert, copper coated solid much superior than helicoils, at least on air cooled heads.
Have found that left hand drills can be a great help in winding out broken studs, but ONLY with a keyed chuck!!
Great video, I must be older even than the Cleaning Guy..any thanks from 'over the pond'
It is amazing what can be done and salvaged with the correct tools and experience.
I love Timeserts. I've accumulated a few kits over the years. I made a mint on Northstar head bolt holes with the Timesert fixture. Ford Triton plugs, too.
That was an awesome job. Respect to you sir.
I'm not a machinist but love watching you guys work your magic.
Enjoy your instructions on machine work.
Found it very interesting and yes you seem to do an extremely professional workmanship.......
NIce video ! Great save ! Thanks for sharing !
Another great tool to add to the shop is a set of LH twist drills. They will pay for them selves in one successful use.
Good point. LH drill can remove the bolt by itself during the drilling, while RH can tighten the bolt even more. Choose what fits your needs.
Torque Test Channel did an aweome video on different thread repair methods. I would feel 100% confident in that repair at any power level. Also as I'm sure you know, most Loctite products get stronger over time.
Nice save on the block I’m sure the customer will be very pleased Awesome job.
Love your videos bud. Satisfying and educational ✊🏻
Nice work.
Timeserts are great!
Amazing job!!! That turned out great!!
Look good and will work. Great Job. Enjoyed the video. Thanks......
Nice job on the repair....good content and thanks
Good repair guys. cheers for the video.
I've used timesert many times in my career and I've never had one fail. Nice fix 👍
Customer probably should have had you check line bore. Yes, that insert should have not changed anything but I am thinking more so, did the last shop actually check it.
I LOVE time-sert.... sure they are so expensive, but DAMN how nice did that work out? It's the definition of having the right tool for the right job :) - a JOY to work with even though they are $$$$
I love this! Such clean work!
Our shop has several EDM sinker machines. You can take a piece of copper tubing and burn out broken bolts, taps, etc. in short time.
Don't forget all HARD crap we can remover also and save the threads with our picks.
Nice!
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
Always interesting! Great videos.
That's a rock solid repair. I don't see why that won't last the life of the block, as long as they use quality parts and read instructions and follow them on installing the studs. I wish I could find a competent machine shop like you guys in Az.
I use left hand drills to remove broken studs. If a stud starts to move it will come out with the direction of the drill rotation,,,, hope this helps
This. This is stud/bolt removal 101. No reason not to do this.
Was wondering why this method was not tried.
Left hand drill bit works well for cases such as when the bolt head snapped off, and there is no real tension on the bolt threads. However, in my experience, it doesn't work well when the threads are gummed up by dirt, corrosion, or thread locker.
@@superbarnie How about when the bolt is stretched as in torqued? I've had shit for luck extracting or drilling anything out that's been snapped off.
@@Guillotines_For_Globalists The bolt stretches because the threads are pulling the bolt down the threads while the bolt head is keeping the top part from going in any further, thereby stretching the bolt.
However, once the head snaps off, then there is no longer tension on the bolt because the head isn't holding it anymore. If the broken bolt in the threads isn't turning with a small amount of force then it is because of friction in the threads. This could be because the threads are dirty or stuck or seized for whatever reason. In those cases it is very unlikely that a left hand drill bit will be able to exert enough torque to turn it out.
Another method I've had success with is welding a nut or bolt to the broken fastener to be able to turn it out. The heat helps a lot to burn off any contaminants in the threads, and the expansion and contraction can break chemical bonds in the threads. Of course, this method is only application when the broken bolt is accessible with a welder.
In the end, bolt extraction is a shit show and there is no guaranteed way to success. If all else fails, try to see if you find a broken drill/tap/bolt specialist with a EDM machine, they can often work miracles.
Good job my guy! Takes real skill to fix someone's fu** up when they already tried drilling it as well...
I just installed a Timesert in a Ford Model A block. It's a great product.
Its good folk like you that save good folk like me from getting heart attacks, if that happened to me I would be needing a few G & T's and a cold pack on my brain.
Nice to see you just shrug your shoulders and sort it "all in a days work" Brilliant my friend yet another good video of a craftsman doing his craft.
All the best from across the pond.👍👍🤜
Another job well done!! And another great video!!
man, i love seeing stuff get fixed proper like
Outstanding....good job
very nice and clean job, hats off to ya
Nice repair ! good video , suggestion maybe little limiter on air pressure for blow gun ?
Excellent job 👏
I have built multiple handfuls of those engines and have never had a main bolt issue. Also, with the arp studs, it should be line honed.
the ARP studs will be more precise than factory; the register in the block determines alignment
@donwest5387 it is still recommended to line hone the block with fastener upgrades as well as connecting rods be checked and resized if needed. Of course, cracked style rods can't be done.
@@donwest5387totally agree! No metal was removed from the cap or the block.
Now, they might want to line hone the mains.
In my opinion, I'd run it like it is.
Something a little different. Nice to see it came out well, but it is JAMSI after all! I suppose you guys will buy one of these kits now?
I believe that it is gonna last, The reason being because you did it. And you have the proper tools to do everything.
Love the videos.👍👈🌝
Installed lots of coils and solid inserts over the years.
That one will be fine. 👍
Great job the threads are better now then it was new
Small trick I use is I get an old head bolt or mains bolt weld the threads a little and use that to wind the time sert in.
Then, you come in with the expander tool.
I've had the expander tool spread the insert early, this is a big pain in a hole.
Once you wind the insert in with an old bolt, you use a rattle gun to wind it out.
Great job sir!
kinda nice you suggested that folks weren't incapable of removing broken studs but that they don't have the proper tools. That's called respect
Have to remember I ONLY see the FAILED bolt extraction attempts. The successful ones never have to come to me lol! So my viewpoint may be skewed 😀
👍👍
Nice job. That insert will be fine.
Nothing like seeing a job done right .. and that job was superb.
I thought I was the only one to go back and double click everything, just to make sure! Great job, the cleaning guy taught you patience.
It will hold no problem .. Nice job
We use a Carbide endmill and a Pure Carbide drill bit and pull out the threads or dill till the threads look like a Helicoil, OR we tap the block for 7/16 threads and put in a ARP stud,
That is the real FIX and linehone the block.
I fix others people’s foulups all the time. No good deed goes unpunished. Picture a shop the size of two Costcos. I use a milling machine, NOT a freaking drill press. I hold the part securely and locate the problem hole exactly. For a fastener I flatten the top and use a spot drill, then a left hand drill under the minor size of the thread. The left hand drill might loosen the fastener and back it out so I’m ready on the quill to let it happen. Then I try an “Easy out”. If that didn’t work, I interpolate out to the minor hole size feeding down manually ready for the remainder to come out. If it doesn’t, all that’s left is the helical thread that be picked, pealed or wiggled out. Taps are a bit more complicated and carbide can burned out but in all cases you got to be dead on and rigid. The worst thing is when some monkey tried and failed, further complicating or necessitating a Heilicoil or Keensert.
That looks real good!! Yep
Awesome job Brother.
Sweet, love a success! Nice work, I love timeSerts ~!
Fresh and clean block, yes it can be saved, dirty blocks are more of a challenge
Looks like it went nicely !
TimeSerts kick ass. They make HeliCoil look like epoxy. (JB is a nice fellow but he'll only go so far)
Isn't it cool to have all the big eq. Nice job.
looks good i used same type of set to repair block head bolts on honda v6
The most striking thing in the video is the ease and accuracy of recentering on the same hole after multi axes table moves. Sure the DRO will get you there but still need to double check.
I usually run a tap/thread chaser in every hole to make sure it is free of anything that'll cause a bolt to bind up when I'm building an engine. Adds time to the labor cost but well worth the effort. You're always one bolt away from being a two week ordeal. Plus, spending money on good equipment saves time and makes the job way easier.
Most people can't drill/tap their own because they don't have anything to really hold the drill bit still enough to not flex. A $300 kit is an excellent tool to save a block.
Also, people go to hf expecting to get good drill bits, give up, and take it to someone who bought bits somewhere else, and end up spending way more than if they had just bought quality tools.
two days ago i was just thinking about if you broke a bolt , great vidio