It's always good to see things like this. I feel like you missed the final step, how many parts do you need to do before it's worth the tool investment? We all knew the Sandvik solution would be faster, but at what point does it become more economical?
What wasn't mentioned was there was probably $3 ,000-4,000.00 tooling investment you would have to spend for that tooling. Sandvik is extremely high priced. For a huge lot runs and a large contact that justifies the special tooling costs it may be worth it. Most shops don't get massive P.O.'s. We used to use Sandvik but they got rid of their reps for our area and the personalized help went nonexistent. So we moved on to others that had support.
Actually it’s easy to find something similar to these Sandvik products in much better price. We just got Chamfer mill from Haas Tooling that looks identically to the one that was shown in this video
it was cool to see a comparison in those two different ways to cut the same part. To top it off, do that same exercise with a different tooling brand and see what's their strategy and cycle time.
when you roughed those chamfers you should have used the indexible mill or should have gone bottom up with the solid carbide mill. going the way you did you only used maybe .05 of the cutting edge.
Sandvik has good cutting tools and good service. When we got started and bought our first CNC lathe, we were a 2 man shop, we called around to buy some new/fresh tooling, and they were the only company that gave us the time of day. The sales rep dropped off some inserts, gave us some starting parameters, and checked back with us from time to time. Their 235 grade was the cat's meow 25 years ago and we used it for everything! They've come a long way with grades and if you pay attention to their speed and feed recommendations you can really remove metal fast.
The sandvik chamfer mill will leave tool marks between passes that are not acceptable (unless you don't care about workmanship). I always ball mill big angles like that because it is the only way to get a good finish.
Angles are always a tough feature to deal with when you’re not using 4 or 5 axis and you can just tilt the part where you need it. I typically ballnose any angle that’s not a 45 or bigger than a chamfer - but I do gotta say, that chamfer mill from Sandvik actually had a pretty impressive finish given that it was stepping over! A quick scotchbrite if you wanted to would have made it smooth. In any case, it was cool to see a different approach!
Great video! Thanks for sharing. In the future, it'd be great to see your best effort using readily available tooling against their best effort and tooling. I've never found much value in comparing mediocre to excellence.
There’s lots of improvement to be made with either of those tool sets. A 15-20 min improvement with the first set. And a 1-3 min improvement with the nice tools. Starting with g187 and shortening up those linking move times!!
that part should have been mounted in the middle of the vise or at least put another block on the other side to counter load so that it doesnt cock the moveable vise jaw, your really limitting your clamping power by doing what you did. also should have at least roughed the profile with the 1" indexable would have saved time.
Seems like a big indexable drill or plunge mill could have roughed out the corners much faster. It would be an interrupted cut, and an extra tool, but for production I would try it that way. AND you aren't wearing out expensive end mills just to remove stupid amounts of material. I'm guessing the two inserts for a corbor are way cheaper than one of these end mills.
Great video and you said it best sometimes we just gotta use what we got. But if you want to be a successful shop you have to look at better tooling for bigger jobs and a lot of times those tools can be used later on the smaller jobs.
Thank you very much sir! I’ve definitely found this as well - unless it’s a weird one-off part or feature that you’re likely never going to use again, most tooling invested in for one job quickly finds more applications on other jobs!
You could go faster using your own tools from the shelf. Second tool could make rough outside including chamfer using Optirough. And for drill you could use I,J,K instead of P for pecking.
Most definitely! I was trying to highlight old-style toolpaths, tooling and programming - I tried to avoid using optimized paths except where there wasn’t really any option just to give a good contrast with the new style tooling and toolpaths!
Solid Carbide drill so no spot drilling instead of HSS where you need it. Amazing trick never heard of that. Who Tf didn‘t knew that and is still using Hss Drills in a CNC machine? (I know sometimes it makes sense to use Hss instead of solid Carbide) But must they really do like this is a new amazing thing?
Both of these tool paths were hard to watch. Shrink the roughy stock in the CAM to reduce the air cuts. Could’ve also roughed the angles with the dynamic path.
interesting, the but is , an old school ripper (cob mill) would of been quicker than a tipped tool that Ian used and not far behind the Sandvik if behind at all, as a finger programmer, for the angle i would of gone up and down with a ball nose rather side to side also quicker than Ian , depending what finish you want that tipped tool wont last long before leaving blend lines, you then have the deburr yes nice i can't do that on angles but if i do the finish cut after angle more of a sharp edge than a burr so a bit of scotch brite does the trick , i will say carbide drills are a must for speed although coated cobalt is my go to for stainless if leaving machine running unless you have through coolant then carbide all the way .
Sandvik offers excellent tools but the cost to purchase is high especially for small shops. If your a big shop they're great. Like 30 foot cnc gantry big!!
I know it was a demo, but way to make sandvik look even better than they are 😂 You very well know that you could have finished that part in 15 minutes with the tools you used there. The toolpaths were…well, yeah. Good video!
I definitely did not optimize anything for this program - my downfeeds were super slow, lots of air milling and the like - I tried to avoid using any modern toolpaths to really highlight just how much time you can waste if you’re not paying attention. Thank you very much for checking it out!
I think I'd just have done a ramp on those 4 corners instead of the standard step down you had. On top of that I'd have probably done a rough for those chamfers as well using either the initial facing tool, or the insert mill. Oh, if we're cheating with dynamic tool paths... that's an entirely different story.
Oh yeah - in reality we actually use a TON of profile ramps here, especially on jobs where there’s little to hold on to, so using something like full flute engagement on an Optirough would be dicey. A ramp with a high-feed is a fantastic way to go as well!
I can write long comment but I believe it is all written down below. All I am gonna say that this video looks like something you would show to someone who knows nothing about CNC, and just started some class where anyone can fill their head with anything.
Definitely could have roughed out that part with the half inch endmill wayyy faster with a adaptive path 200ipm .030 rdoc 1.00 adoc .025 step up. Would have really dropped the ball milling time by going up and down the angle instead of across it.
oh my god. this was so painful to watch. who machines like that? no one? rapids are snail speed, plunge and retract are like extremely slow. feed is so slow. I can machine this part in less than 10min using common tools. this guy either doenst know what he is doing or he is trying so hard deliberately slowing down just to sell expensive tooling.
Sorry but it was painful to watch the first part being made. Dynamic toolpaths and or high feed milling to make this widget. Theres a hundred different ways to make this part but a 5 minute cycle time shouldn't be too hard to accomplish
It's always good to see things like this. I feel like you missed the final step, how many parts do you need to do before it's worth the tool investment? We all knew the Sandvik solution would be faster, but at what point does it become more economical?
What wasn't mentioned was there was probably $3 ,000-4,000.00 tooling investment you would have to spend for that tooling. Sandvik is extremely high priced. For a huge lot runs and a large contact that justifies the special tooling costs it may be worth it. Most shops don't get massive P.O.'s. We used to use Sandvik but they got rid of their reps for our area and the personalized help went nonexistent. So we moved on to others that had support.
Actually it’s easy to find something similar to these Sandvik products in much better price. We just got Chamfer mill from Haas Tooling that looks identically to the one that was shown in this video
As a nobody in the machining world (( hope to change that), I love your content! I love learning so keep pumping these videos out
it was cool to see a comparison in those two different ways to cut the same part. To top it off, do that same exercise with a different tooling brand and see what's their strategy and cycle time.
That's a massive productivity gain!
Amazing!
Thanks for doing these videos! Much appreciated!!!!!
It was extremely impressive to witness - those Hydraulic holders are beasts! Thank you for checking it out!
@@iansandusky417 :)
Good video..thanks for your time
Thank you very much for checking it out!
when you roughed those chamfers you should have used the indexible mill or should have gone bottom up with the solid carbide mill. going the way you did you only used maybe .05 of the cutting edge.
i just liked and subscribed, thanks for the content brooo
Sandvik has good cutting tools and good service. When we got started and bought our first CNC lathe, we were a 2 man shop, we called around to buy some new/fresh tooling, and they were the only company that gave us the time of day. The sales rep dropped off some inserts, gave us some starting parameters, and checked back with us from time to time. Their 235 grade was the cat's meow 25 years ago and we used it for everything! They've come a long way with grades and if you pay attention to their speed and feed recommendations you can really remove metal fast.
The sandvik chamfer mill will leave tool marks between passes that are not acceptable (unless you don't care about workmanship). I always ball mill big angles like that because it is the only way to get a good finish.
Angles are always a tough feature to deal with when you’re not using 4 or 5 axis and you can just tilt the part where you need it. I typically ballnose any angle that’s not a 45 or bigger than a chamfer - but I do gotta say, that chamfer mill from Sandvik actually had a pretty impressive finish given that it was stepping over! A quick scotchbrite if you wanted to would have made it smooth.
In any case, it was cool to see a different approach!
Great video! Thanks for sharing. In the future, it'd be great to see your best effort using readily available tooling against their best effort and tooling. I've never found much value in comparing mediocre to excellence.
Thank you very much for checking it out! Indeed, the Sandvik guys would likely wipe the floor with me no matter how you cut it!
There’s lots of improvement to be made with either of those tool sets.
A 15-20 min improvement with the first set. And a 1-3 min improvement with the nice tools. Starting with g187 and shortening up those linking move times!!
Awesome video! Would like to see videos on the cam side of it. More videos on second op operation.
Thank you very much for checking it out!
that part should have been mounted in the middle of the vise or at least put another block on the other side to counter load so that it doesnt cock the moveable vise jaw, your really limitting your clamping power by doing what you did. also should have at least roughed the profile with the 1" indexable would have saved time.
Seems like a big indexable drill or plunge mill could have roughed out the corners much faster. It would be an interrupted cut, and an extra tool, but for production I would try it that way. AND you aren't wearing out expensive end mills just to remove stupid amounts of material. I'm guessing the two inserts for a corbor are way cheaper than one of these end mills.
Amazing , we need that hd closeup though
That would have been awesome for sure!
Great video and you said it best sometimes we just gotta use what we got. But if you want to be a successful shop you have to look at better tooling for bigger jobs and a lot of times those tools can be used later on the smaller jobs.
Thank you very much sir! I’ve definitely found this as well - unless it’s a weird one-off part or feature that you’re likely never going to use again, most tooling invested in for one job quickly finds more applications on other jobs!
You could go faster using your own tools from the shelf. Second tool could make rough outside including chamfer using Optirough. And for drill you could use I,J,K instead of P for pecking.
Most definitely! I was trying to highlight old-style toolpaths, tooling and programming - I tried to avoid using optimized paths except where there wasn’t really any option just to give a good contrast with the new style tooling and toolpaths!
@@iansandusky417 will you purchase one or more of these Sandvik tools for your shelf?
Solid Carbide drill so no spot drilling instead of HSS where you need it.
Amazing trick never heard of that.
Who Tf didn‘t knew that and is still using Hss Drills in a CNC machine?
(I know sometimes it makes sense to use Hss instead of solid Carbide)
But must they really do like this is a new amazing thing?
Very cool!
Thank you very much for checking it out!
Good tooling is important but i feel like a lot of the sandvic effects could be achieved with program improvements
Both of these tool paths were hard to watch. Shrink the roughy stock in the CAM to reduce the air cuts. Could’ve also roughed the angles with the dynamic path.
Very interesting topic. But the audio quality is sadly lacking :(
How many horsepower was this machine in the demo?
interesting, the but is , an old school ripper (cob mill) would of been quicker than a tipped tool that Ian used and not far behind the Sandvik if behind at all, as a finger programmer, for the angle i would of gone up and down with a ball nose rather side to side also quicker than Ian , depending what finish you want that tipped tool wont last long before leaving blend lines, you then have the deburr yes nice i can't do that on angles but if i do the finish cut after angle more of a sharp edge than a burr so a bit of scotch brite does the trick , i will say carbide drills are a must for speed although coated cobalt is my go to for stainless if leaving machine running unless you have through coolant then carbide all the way .
This was hard to watch xD
Who programmed this part?
Sandvik offers excellent tools but the cost to purchase is high especially for small shops. If your a big shop they're great. Like 30 foot cnc gantry big!!
I know it was a demo, but way to make sandvik look even better than they are 😂 You very well know that you could have finished that part in 15 minutes with the tools you used there. The toolpaths were…well, yeah. Good video!
I definitely did not optimize anything for this program - my downfeeds were super slow, lots of air milling and the like - I tried to avoid using any modern toolpaths to really highlight just how much time you can waste if you’re not paying attention. Thank you very much for checking it out!
@@iansandusky417 Makes sense! Looking forward to more videos! Maybe some mitee bite clamp fixturing? 😁
The comparison was supposed to be the tools, not the toolpaths.
Definately could have cut the cycle time in half or better with the non-sandvik tools.
Technically every cutting tool is a cutting edge tool
I think I'd just have done a ramp on those 4 corners instead of the standard step down you had. On top of that I'd have probably done a rough for those chamfers as well using either the initial facing tool, or the insert mill.
Oh, if we're cheating with dynamic tool paths... that's an entirely different story.
Oh yeah - in reality we actually use a TON of profile ramps here, especially on jobs where there’s little to hold on to, so using something like full flute engagement on an Optirough would be dicey. A ramp with a high-feed is a fantastic way to go as well!
Dynamic is standard operating procedure, not cheating. Z level roughing with insert tooling cheats you out of productivity…
Gripper jaws. Let er rip
If iwould run my mashine so slow, my boss will KILL me, dont matters if its 1 or 100 parts
I can write long comment but I believe it is all written down below. All I am gonna say that this video looks like something you would show to someone who knows nothing about CNC, and just started some class where anyone can fill their head with anything.
Definitely could have roughed out that part with the half inch endmill wayyy faster with a adaptive path 200ipm .030 rdoc 1.00 adoc .025 step up. Would have really dropped the ball milling time by going up and down the angle instead of across it.
oh my god. this was so painful to watch. who machines like that? no one? rapids are snail speed, plunge and retract are like extremely slow. feed is so slow. I can machine this part in less than 10min using common tools. this guy either doenst know what he is doing or he is trying so hard deliberately slowing down just to sell expensive tooling.
Please upgrade your microphone.
So much wrong with that first program.
Sorry but it was painful to watch the first part being made. Dynamic toolpaths and or high feed milling to make this widget. Theres a hundred different ways to make this part but a 5 minute cycle time shouldn't be too hard to accomplish
Thumbs Down. I never got to see the video. All We saw was an ad.