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The Roast of Michael was fantastic......but that is also Michael's superpower.....his authenticity and transparency. That is why we listen to this show
Great discussion. My wife got me a Rolex for my 30th birthday which cost around $6000 at the time. I also received a sizable bonus and bought a ton of AAPL stock right after the initial iPhone release. 17+ years later, the Rolex is worth $3500 and AAPL has 46x’d. We are now retired early thanks to the AAPL investment with stealth wealth and I am keeping the Rolex as a reminder of my younger foolish days.
I’m an American living in Japan, and my elderly mother-in-law apparently lost a lot of money in the Japanese bubble bursting. She thought it was crazy to ever invest money in the stock market, or start an anime retail business, but 30 years later I’ve been quite well from myself. You gotta check your biases.
You guys live the life. Dont work too much and lots of travel, holidays, vehicles, new mud rooms. Good on you, im jealous . Its been tough slogging with two jobs . You've made good choices and are highly intelligent
I’m sure they work a lot more than you think. This isn’t their only gig and probably spend a lot of time doing research. It looks easy from the outside but analyzing financials and advising clients are anything but.
Even then it is misleading. There is a lot of context such as expenses, cost of living, years to fund retirement, etc. This becomes more apparent when you are actually retired because it is a lot more complex than just one number.
Price gouging during natural disasters, while ugly, actually helps improve the situation, and this has been proven. The anti price gouging laws create disincentive for people to import emergency goods to the emergency zone. If you want someone to drive with a Uhaul full of batteries across 3 states, you gotta pay the man.
33:29 My company deals in pre-owned Rolex, amongst other luxury items, and the margin on these watches is minuscule. If we buy a pre-owned Rolex from a dealer and resell it the net margin is around 10%. If we had margins like this on all of our products we would go out of business. We only offer these watches as a service to our clients and not because it makes financial sense.
My wife bought a monitor for her desk, came same day. Was 27”, too big…sent it back. Ordered replacement monitor, 20”, perfect size, came later that same day. Happy now. We already had 3 monitors in the house and we can both get monitors from our work. Like WTF. #consumerism #the4percent
My son dropped a class last semester and I told him if he screws up again he’s getting loans and paying himself. I see Michael’s grades and maybe I’m being too tough and at least there’s still hope.
I've come to believe Michael is not well-rounded but is trying to be. He doesn't scoff at knowledge he doesn't possess and remains teachable. I originally found his ignorance of things many would consider common knowledge to be irritating, but after watching many shows, I realize he has strengths in other areas that I know nothing of -- which is why I tune in. As of this writing, he has 17k views, which means he has the ability to interpret raw information and bring it each week in a way that makes sense to his viewers. I, too, was a bit of a troglodyte in my younger days, but eventually formed a habit of learning and remaining curious. Being a troglodyte does not have to be a life-long affliction if we remain open-minded.
Taxing unrealized gains is the wrong solution to the “Buy, borrow, die” strategy that billionaires use. What’s a better solution? I think (a) tax incentive stock options properly and (b) fix the step-up basis upon death loophole.
Real Estate. I like to browse Zillow, sometimes I save the posting. I decided to review my saved homes, some listing going back 2yrs. I had 63 homes saved. 55 homes went off market , no sale. 7 homes sold. Mostly in the 500k to 750k price range. the 7 homes that sold had huge price discounts. What does that mean?
Pricing things in gold makes perfect sense. Gold may have some cyclical volatility, but it's the most stable form of money that's ever existed. Certainly a far more useful measuring stick than the "fiat" (yes Ben, it's a useful term) dollar, which has depreciated by close to 100% over the past century.
@@thebarryman The power of Gold: history of an obsession by Peter Bernstein Stocks for the long run by Siegel has a good section describing how stocks rallied with the abandonment of the gold standard. Which incidentally was suspended anyway during Napoleonic war, and ww1as it was realised debt was needed to fund these ventures. Debt which decreased in value over time… because of inflation. Inflation is a feature, not a bug
@@pathflight9803 Yes, inflation is intentional in order to monetize debts. Not sure why any of that information means you can't price assets in gold to obtain a more stable measure of their real value, though. Thanks for the book recs.
@@thebarryman no worries sorry I was snarky. Judging by how risk assets have skyrocketed with the abolition of the gold standard; I’m pretty sure the wealthy would make damn sure it was never reinstated in any case!
I think the reason people think Real Estate is a better investment than stocks when surveyed is the below example. A person buys there home, lets say for $500k and they put $50k down for the deposit. After 3 years the home is worth $700k. This person sees that they have on paper made $200k which is a huge amount of money. They don't necessarily intuitively see that they are highly leveraged and the actual year over year gain is 13%. However, due to their leverage they have made a 400% gain. Stocks on the other hand, normal people don't usually use leverage. So if a person puts the same $50k into the stock market and makes a higher percentage gain, say 20% each of the 3 years, they come out with $86,400, so a $36,400 gain representing a 72.8% gain.
Oh I can tell you exactly why they believe real estate is a better investment. You can use 3.5% down to leverage a half a million dollar asset, get all the upside of that asset, what downside is there? You live there
@36:09 "Who thinks that's a good idea ?" People who didn't flunk economics, for one. High prices induce more sellers to enter the market, alleviating the lack of supply. If sellers were banned from charging $13 in the middle of a hurricane, who'd risk their life to do it ?
I pay property taxes on 'unrealized value', including money that i mostly put in......so what is the big deal in taxing unrealized gains for the super rich? We cannot have oligarchs running this country, and right now, i see a lot of oligarch types all over America calling the shots and buying out politicians, buying out land, buying influence.
4:24 Last time I flew out of Denver the tsa/pre/clear/etc had reached a tipping point and the normal standard security line was as much as 5 minutes faster. These companies need to be more exclusive/pricey or they will die soon.
About the wealth survey...does it include the real estate owned...? or is it just Cash and liquid investments....? seems it does make a lot of difference... please someone comment thanks
I think I have a good answer to why people think real estate makes sense as the best performing asset. Much less volatile than stocks and the TCO is never fully apparent (you only see price bought price sold - you don’t see all the maintenance, taxes, HOA, insurance, closing costs). Several very educated friends are terrified of the stock market. A friend of mine has over 500k in cash. She works for FAANG and her only stock exposure outside of her 401k is her company stock. She does not like the ups and downs of the market.
You cant say the fed was late to raise in the first place and then say their hikes didnt slow down inflation. They didnt raise to insane levels to crush the economy, they raised to what they thought were appropriate to keep consumers and job from overheating but not destroy them.
5 % of people have multiple jobs ? My two cents ... Ive always had multiple jobs. Im always wondering why people complain about not having enough to live,yet dont think they should have a side hustle ? Im pretty old now but the spread between myself and my peers is like the grand canyon. Im so comfortable . And good thing because the body breaks down and you cant work hard forever.
re: Nvidia employees who are complaining about work culture and allegedly working crazy hours. WINNING CURES EVERYTHING. The moment the company starts hitting rocky times, there will be more complaining about their work/life balance. I just think the media and/or these anonymous employees are just embellishing their story.
37:34 I keep hearing that the billionaires don’t pay their “fair share” (I hate that phrase btw) And that they borrow against their assets so that they don’t have to pay taxes. I’m not an economist and this might be stupid but why not they propose that that the Billionaires pay an income tax on the loan that they take out against their assets instead of this stupid unrealistic unrealized tax they are pushing?
Taxing the unrealized capital gains of the ultra rich sounds like a great idea to me, but I am sure it will never happen. I am sure if there is ever a serious concern about the growth of government debt they will cut spending on programs that benefit the poor and middle class and possibly raise taxes on the working class.
Agreed. ZH is a refreshing relief from the sanitized "corporate" opinions that you get from mainstream media. They've been first with many important stories and they continue to shine a light on the hypocrisy and outright criminality of politicians on both sides of the aisle. I certainly wouldn't make financial decisions based on what I read on ZH, but nor would I do so based on what I'd heard on Animal Spirits.
Would the readers who bought Nvidia 2 decades ago also bought a whole other basket of stocks like JDS Uniphase, Lucent, Cisco, etc with a few thousand dollars each. And just left that basket alone whilst getting on with life. Would they have just bought only Nvidia stock, nothing else?
Michael being kinda petty sounding not giving any credit to those investors. For all we know they had a solid thesis and when it dipped they bought more because their thesis in the company was intact. These people were investing, not trading. Now did any of them see ai coming and nvidia being there for it. Probably not. Just like nobody saw Apple being the number one cell phone make in the US. Just sounded Petty Michael.
48:29 inflation has moved the goalposts! I haven’t gotten a pay raise since before Covid, so bc of the approximately 27% compounded inflation, in my mind I have gotten a 27% pay cut.
This episode is sponsored by YCharts. Get 20% off your initial YCharts Professional subscription when you start your free trial through Animal Spirits (new customers only). Sign up at: go.ycharts.com/animal-spirits
The Roast of Michael was fantastic......but that is also Michael's superpower.....his authenticity and transparency. That is why we listen to this show
I feel like the "what is wealthy?" question needs to be age rated. Having $2.5M at 90yr old isn't the same as having $2.5M at 35.
Not if you die at 36.
In both cases it's generational wealth.
Great discussion. My wife got me a Rolex for my 30th birthday which cost around $6000 at the time. I also received a sizable bonus and bought a ton of AAPL stock right after the initial iPhone release. 17+ years later, the Rolex is worth $3500 and AAPL has 46x’d. We are now retired early thanks to the AAPL investment with stealth wealth and I am keeping the Rolex as a reminder of my younger foolish days.
I’m an American living in Japan, and my elderly mother-in-law apparently lost a lot of money in the Japanese bubble bursting. She thought it was crazy to ever invest money in the stock market, or start an anime retail business, but 30 years later I’ve been quite well from myself. You gotta check your biases.
You guys live the life. Dont work too much and lots of travel, holidays, vehicles, new mud rooms.
Good on you, im jealous . Its been tough slogging with two jobs . You've made good choices and are highly intelligent
I’m sure they work a lot more than you think. This isn’t their only gig and probably spend a lot of time doing research. It looks easy from the outside but analyzing financials and advising clients are anything but.
Michael: “I’m good at geography”
Also Michael: Doesn’t know which Kansas City he’s in for the entire trip
Lmao I remember that episode
Hey Batnick, thank you for showing your transcript. Now I understand.
Going from a 1.4 GPA to becoming a CFA is insanely impressive. Gives me hope!
The grocery thing is a real thing especially if u use apps where you can see what your cost was and recreate the order and see what it is now
I don't find average retirement balances useful, much better to use median values.
Even then it is misleading. There is a lot of context such as expenses, cost of living, years to fund retirement, etc. This becomes more apparent when you are actually retired because it is a lot more complex than just one number.
My wife needs a demo video of the chicken shredder. She heard you talking about it and said "that thing doesn't fucking work"
59:44 “kids don’t know how good we have it Ben!” 😂😂😂
Ahhh The wealth of being first 🥇
Batnick would put 20% on each of the poll options? That's a Grand Rapids hedge if I ever heard one.
Price gouging during natural disasters, while ugly, actually helps improve the situation, and this has been proven. The anti price gouging laws create disincentive for people to import emergency goods to the emergency zone. If you want someone to drive with a Uhaul full of batteries across 3 states, you gotta pay the man.
What is wealth? Baby don’t hurt me.
Bens section on who not to trust was gold hahahaha
Happy Birthday Duncan🎉🎉🎉
Thanks!
33:29 My company deals in pre-owned Rolex, amongst other luxury items, and the margin on these watches is minuscule. If we buy a pre-owned Rolex from a dealer and resell it the net margin is around 10%. If we had margins like this on all of our products we would go out of business. We only offer these watches as a service to our clients and not because it makes financial sense.
"Anyone who uses the word Fiat!"
Lol, hes jus ignoring history at that point.
Happy Birthday Duncan!!
Thanks Mike!
Michael, WHAT'S YOUR "WEALTH" Goalpost threshold!!?
You danced around it, but never said!
We need a chart of hours of work needed to purchase the S&P500
Ben you rock 🎉Am in with all your lists👏
43:42 How is housing getting more adorable if you own a home when insurance, maintenance, taxes and all those good things have increased? Like?
Happy birthday Duncan
Thanks!
My wife bought a monitor for her desk, came same day. Was 27”, too big…sent it back. Ordered replacement monitor, 20”, perfect size, came later that same day. Happy now.
We already had 3 monitors in the house and we can both get monitors from our work. Like WTF. #consumerism #the4percent
I love Mike's filters.
I had diagnosed ADHD and when I took the SATs in 7th grade my score was about the same as Michael’s
My son dropped a class last semester and I told him if he screws up again he’s getting loans and paying himself. I see Michael’s grades and maybe I’m being too tough and at least there’s still hope.
7:00 Michael clearly slept through all of his economics courses in college
I've come to believe Michael is not well-rounded but is trying to be. He doesn't scoff at knowledge he doesn't possess and remains teachable. I originally found his ignorance of things many would consider common knowledge to be irritating, but after watching many shows, I realize he has strengths in other areas that I know nothing of -- which is why I tune in. As of this writing, he has 17k views, which means he has the ability to interpret raw information and bring it each week in a way that makes sense to his viewers. I, too, was a bit of a troglodyte in my younger days, but eventually formed a habit of learning and remaining curious. Being a troglodyte does not have to be a life-long affliction if we remain open-minded.
The guy who called Michael a troglodyte was really just trying to say Michael is the salt of the earth!
National Parks 🤙 Seen a Bunch of them. Glacier national Park and Zion national Park are The 2 that amazed me the most but they are all amazing 🤙
Taxing unrealized gains is the wrong solution to the “Buy, borrow, die” strategy that billionaires use. What’s a better solution? I think (a) tax incentive stock options properly and (b) fix the step-up basis upon death loophole.
This is the first time I’ve heard Ben have such wild takes.
Great episode
Ben, I have a long time rule. Never trust someone who wears a bow tie!
Korean dishwashing gloves from amazon. Thank me later Michael
Wealth, for me, means having enough money that I don't have to work a 9-to-5 job I'm not passionate about.
Real Estate. I like to browse Zillow, sometimes I save the posting. I decided to review my saved homes, some listing going back 2yrs. I had 63 homes saved. 55 homes went off market , no sale. 7 homes sold. Mostly in the 500k to 750k price range. the 7 homes that sold had huge price discounts. What does that mean?
Michael what dorm at IU? I hope Northwest quadrant and you were at least climbing the social ladder!
Wealthy is defined by the person that signs checks on the front. The people that cash those checks can be rich
The same chicken shredder is $2.97 on Temu which MB bought for $15😂
29:10 completely agree with all of Ben's list of people he doesn't trust. Especially the bow tie wearers
Pricing things in gold makes perfect sense. Gold may have some cyclical volatility, but it's the most stable form of money that's ever existed. Certainly a far more useful measuring stick than the "fiat" (yes Ben, it's a useful term) dollar, which has depreciated by close to 100% over the past century.
Omg. Read a book
@@pathflight9803 Any recommendations?
@@thebarryman The power of Gold: history of an obsession by Peter Bernstein
Stocks for the long run by Siegel has a good section describing how stocks rallied with the abandonment of the gold standard. Which incidentally was suspended anyway during Napoleonic war, and ww1as it was realised debt was needed to fund these ventures. Debt which decreased in value over time… because of inflation. Inflation is a feature, not a bug
@@pathflight9803 Yes, inflation is intentional in order to monetize debts. Not sure why any of that information means you can't price assets in gold to obtain a more stable measure of their real value, though. Thanks for the book recs.
@@thebarryman no worries sorry I was snarky. Judging by how risk assets have skyrocketed with the abolition of the gold standard; I’m pretty sure the wealthy would make damn sure it was never reinstated in any case!
I think the reason people think Real Estate is a better investment than stocks when surveyed is the below example.
A person buys there home, lets say for $500k and they put $50k down for the deposit. After 3 years the home is worth $700k. This person sees that they have on paper made $200k which is a huge amount of money. They don't necessarily intuitively see that they are highly leveraged and the actual year over year gain is 13%. However, due to their leverage they have made a 400% gain.
Stocks on the other hand, normal people don't usually use leverage. So if a person puts the same $50k into the stock market and makes a higher percentage gain, say 20% each of the 3 years, they come out with $86,400, so a $36,400 gain representing a 72.8% gain.
If it’s all about luck why would I hire an advisor?
Oh I can tell you exactly why they believe real estate is a better investment. You can use 3.5% down to leverage a half a million dollar asset, get all the upside of that asset, what downside is there? You live there
@36:09 "Who thinks that's a good idea ?" People who didn't flunk economics, for one. High prices induce more sellers to enter the market, alleviating the lack of supply. If sellers were banned from charging $13 in the middle of a hurricane, who'd risk their life to do it ?
I pay property taxes on 'unrealized value', including money that i mostly put in......so what is the big deal in taxing unrealized gains for the super rich?
We cannot have oligarchs running this country, and right now, i see a lot of oligarch types all over America calling the shots and buying out politicians, buying out land, buying influence.
4:24
Last time I flew out of Denver the tsa/pre/clear/etc had reached a tipping point and the normal standard security line was as much as 5 minutes faster. These companies need to be more exclusive/pricey or they will die soon.
Im with mike. Wealthy is what I would consider having “dumb money” or their kids-kids will be well off
All Mainers know Cape Air! Super cool view if you fly Bar Harbor to Boston.
I love this show, I feel so old listening to it tho 😂.
About the wealth survey...does it include the real estate owned...? or is it just Cash and liquid investments....? seems it does make a lot of difference... please someone comment thanks
I think I have a good answer to why people think real estate makes sense as the best performing asset. Much less volatile than stocks and the TCO is never fully apparent (you only see price bought price sold - you don’t see all the maintenance, taxes, HOA, insurance, closing costs).
Several very educated friends are terrified of the stock market. A friend of mine has over 500k in cash. She works for FAANG and her only stock exposure outside of her 401k is her company stock. She does not like the ups and downs of the market.
Wow, Ben’s list of “don’t listen to for financial advice” runs deep…
It’s Texas, smoked sausage is a food group there
You cant say the fed was late to raise in the first place and then say their hikes didnt slow down inflation. They didnt raise to insane levels to crush the economy, they raised to what they thought were appropriate to keep consumers and job from overheating but not destroy them.
Americans are prob the most marketed to group in the world, which explains why we spend so much. We get blasted with commercials or ads constantly!
5 % of people have multiple jobs ? My two cents ... Ive always had multiple jobs. Im always wondering why people complain about not having enough to live,yet dont think they should have a side hustle ?
Im pretty old now but the spread between myself and my peers is like the grand canyon. Im so comfortable . And good thing because the body breaks down and you cant work hard forever.
I got the yellow gloves
Gloves sometimes
Ben you should make a letterboxd account
People with hair do dollar cost averaging, people who are bald try to buy the dip
Funny hearing Michael call people lucky that held onto their winners. Dude, you have to hold onto stocks for more than 2 weeks for that to happen. 😂
12:00 there's a difference between being smart and being right over time...
re: Nvidia employees who are complaining about work culture and allegedly working crazy hours. WINNING CURES EVERYTHING. The moment the company starts hitting rocky times, there will be more complaining about their work/life balance. I just think the media and/or these anonymous employees are just embellishing their story.
No f’ing way Michael. No way. Give me the modest life with more time for me.
How could someone be up 15 million on a stock and still haven’t sold it. I’d love to have enough money to not withdraw money from that big of a winner
37:34 I keep hearing that the billionaires don’t pay their “fair share” (I hate that phrase btw) And that they borrow against their assets so that they don’t have to pay taxes. I’m not an economist and this might be stupid but why not they propose that that the Billionaires pay an income tax on the loan that they take out against their assets instead of this stupid unrealistic unrealized tax they are pushing?
I thought Furiosa was amazing! 10/10 gosh I think ill watch it again. I prefer it over the first one actually. I must note that I saw Furiosa first
Taxing the unrealized capital gains of the ultra rich sounds like a great idea to me, but I am sure it will never happen. I am sure if there is ever a serious concern about the growth of government debt they will cut spending on programs that benefit the poor and middle class and possibly raise taxes on the working class.
Boiler Up!
So what’s Mike’s magic number for wealth?
closing in on when you two jump the shark
Easily double if you don't go you won't know
Houses have utility in use.
I’d have Bitcoin outperforming all of that
👋 bus stop dad
ZeroHedge is awesome if you understand what it is
Agreed. ZH is a refreshing relief from the sanitized "corporate" opinions that you get from mainstream media. They've been first with many important stories and they continue to shine a light on the hypocrisy and outright criminality of politicians on both sides of the aisle. I certainly wouldn't make financial decisions based on what I read on ZH, but nor would I do so based on what I'd heard on Animal Spirits.
Chicken shedder😂 LOL
It's not logically possible to legislate against price gouging.
Would the readers who bought Nvidia 2 decades ago also bought a whole other basket of stocks like JDS Uniphase, Lucent, Cisco, etc with a few thousand dollars each. And just left that basket alone whilst getting on with life. Would they have just bought only Nvidia stock, nothing else?
They deserve credit because they believed in the company.
What is wealth? I wouldn't be for knowing.
Shaq net worth 500M. I believe that is wealth.
I bought in 2016
Gen x had it best! We got WW2 grandparents and the Matrix movie. 🎥 🍿🍾
Didn’t you get fired from being a caddy too?
You don’t need gloves anymore bc the soap is softer on your hands.
Omg Don't force it when meeting a mate. Its the quickest way to divorce. Wealthy $10 m. Especially since homes are 1 million bucks😅
Michael being kinda petty sounding not giving any credit to those investors. For all we know they had a solid thesis and when it dipped they bought more because their thesis in the company was intact. These people were investing, not trading. Now did any of them see ai coming and nvidia being there for it. Probably not. Just like nobody saw Apple being the number one cell phone make in the US.
Just sounded Petty Michael.
first
Edit the opening segment to go through topics quicker, gracias
"In today's episode". Who cares ? Just start talking.
Did Ben drop an F-bomb? Lol
33:26 speaking of Crypto Bros… I wonder how much money Kevin O’Leary, one of the biggest Charlatans, has lost buying & selling watches.
👍
48:29 inflation has moved the goalposts! I haven’t gotten a pay raise since before Covid, so bc of the approximately 27% compounded inflation, in my mind I have gotten a 27% pay cut.