Tommy Pham Slid Into William Contreras for an Out, But Did It Violate the Home Plate Collision Rule?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- White Sox runner Tommy Pham slid into Brewers catcher William Contreras on a play at the plate as Milwaukee cut down Chicago's tying run. Had Contreras dropped the ball, could HP Umpire Edwin Jimenez have called Pham out for a home plate collision rule violation? Report: www.closecallsports.com/2024/...
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Official Baseball Rule 6.01(i)(1) is titled Collisions at Home Plate and pertains to the baserunner's obligations and responsibilities for a play at the plate. OBR 6.01(i)(1) states that a runner may not deviate from their direct pathway to the plate in order to initiate contact with the catcher, nor may they otherwise initiate an avoidable collision. If an illegal plate collision occurs due to the runner's violation, it is a dead ball, the runner is out, and all other runners return to the last base touched at the time of the collision.
Accordingly, was the Pham-Contreras collision "avoidable"? - กีฬา
That was such a horrible path running from third on a tag up.
I can only think he was trying to get in the way of the throw.
@@neohippie7319it’s fairly common tactic, although I think it’s garbage.
Would have been a great tactic had the throw glanced off the runner.
I wonder, too, if he had (or thought he had) better traction on the grass than on the dirt, along with wanting to get in the way of the throw
No he is just trash
White Sox broadcaster: "I don't care how many L's we got this year..." LOL!
Lindsay's follow-up was better - OUCH!!!!
He is the absolute biggest homer- and possibly the worst announcer- in all of sports.
Well that won't be a problem
Thank you for making this. I watched this game live and was calling that illegal right away yet pham gets an attitude about it. And his comments after the game about were childish as well. He is Bush league.
He was upset the catcher was taunting him, not the slide. Stop making shit up
@anthonym7133 yeah and contreas was taunting him because the slide was bush league.
He’s always being a cry baby, the idea is to stay as far as possible from the catcher’s tag specially if he’s giving you all that space on the right side of the plate….and worst of it all: having an attitude and try to fight when he clearly did it all wrong!!!!
These White Sox are funny !!!!
@traptnadream6995 bush league since when, the last five years? Stop being soft. The catcher is in full gear
He would've been out for an avoidable collision. Contreras gave him everything on the foul side of the line.
Not sure of that. The slide seems legal and directly toward the plate in an attempt to score. A slide, by rule, is not a collision.
"Clean play"? He went right at the catcher and not the plate.
Based on his legally established path, he went right at the plate. He just had to go through the catcher to get there.
@MwD676 second time you've commented second time your wrong better stop now
@@williamanderson6006
If what I said is wrong, then what are you saying that is right?
Simply saying something is wrong is not a valid argument.
@@MwD676 exactly saying something is wrong doesnt make you right
@@williamanderson6006
If I read your comment literally, it seems you are scolding yourself. You are the one saying something is wrong without saying anything about what is right.
I am commenting on a baseball play. You are just being argumentative about semantics without making any point about the debate.
Dude was sliding in from the pitchers mound
Runner gets to make their own path unless there is a tag attempt.
@@ericblair5731 I'm pretty sure you aren't allowed to run in from one of the dugouts or the mound...
@@kevink6420 Eric is correct that the runner establishes their own path until there is a tag attempt. He can run toward the mound if he wants. He can run toward the dugout if he wants. He cannot enter the dugout because that is out of play.
Also, your original comment is clearly hyperbole.
White Sox announcers are as bad as their team
Seriously! I was like, “Is this really their broadcasters???”
Hey now, I am NOT a White Sox fan but Steve Stone is one of the best in the business as a color guy. Seriously his breakdowns and knowledge of the game is hard to beat. How he put up with Harry Caray just boggles the mind but he did it better than anyone else could.
It's been a long time since I slid myself, but calling that a slide was pretty generous. It looked more like "oh, I forgot I'm not allowed to freight train him, better get down."
Thing is, baseball still doesn't have malicious contact rules like high school ball does... it has rules regarding interference only. If the catcher gives you a lane and the ball just gets there fast, and you don't deviate from your path, I think you're still within the rules to freight-train him at the plate.
@@austin.draude I think the NCAA has a malicious contact rule. I believe in the NCAA it is called "Collision Rule" (Rule 8-7).
OBR requires the runner to not deviate from his pathway to initiate contact. It also requires the runner to not initiate an avoidable collision.
@@MwD676 Yup. If the catcher moves into the base runner's path after receiving the ball to block the plate, it would be considered not 'avoidable'. In this case, the catcher clearly wasn't moving into the path, therefore completely avoidable.
@@tervalas Catcher is legal. Runner’s path is legal. Runner slides directly at the plate in a legitimate attempt to score. Catcher legally blocks that path since he has possession. Both catcher and runner performed actions that are legal.
You are assuming that the play should always look like what the rule assumes the play looks like.
"Tommy Pham is *really* hot!"
"Yes, 'Happy Pride' and all that..."
That was SLICK. 🤣
The peacocking from Pham is pretty weak ngl. Thanks for the vid!
Yeah, he came off looking like a jackass. He might not have earned an ejection, but if I was coaching Little League and one of my players did that I'd bench him for a game. A grown man doing it is even a worse look.
Announcer said Pham has to be held back. Not sure what play he’s watching but he was backing up the whole time. Agreed. Contreras was in right. Pham caused issue and made issue bigger.
There's a reason he's on a new team all the time
Pham bam thank you ma’am.
Hey, came here from Jomboy video mentioning the channel and this is a great breakdown of the rule. I'm now more knowledgeable about such plays, I really appreciate it!
I wish the runner getting the foul line to foul territory and the catcher getting fair territory was just a set in stone rule. The 'own path' a runner takes from 3rd to home never needs to be in fair territory. Either they're rounding the base so they'll start outside or they're starting on the base and can easily set up for it legally
Unless the runner is avoiding a batted ball.
@@JohnnyChapman-jp1ej Runners take a lead in foul ground so that if touched by a batted ball, it is simply foul-not interference.
You could simplify a lot of baseball rules if you just prescribed the path the runner must run on all bases. The question that raises in my mind is if this is still baseball as we understand it.
There's homer Steve Stone. It was a clean play on all sides? Really? I don't remember the last time I've seen a runner that far into the grass running to home for absolutely no reason.
Clearly had a reason. It is totally legal to establish your own base path until the tag attempt occurs.
Actually think we had a similar situation in a CCS video earlier this year-or maybe it was last year. (Runner from 3rd legally and successfully affected the throw home by 3B, in that case.)
Announcer is so cringe
1 of my 2 reasons I beleive he's done this:
A) To prevent the ball from getting to the catcher by potentially using his body to block the ball coming in.
B) )Wanting to make contact with the catcher and realizes at the end he can't.
Note:
With previous year the base is wider than it used to be. Which means he has to deviate inside the grass 3 feet inside from his starting position on the base.
To violate, he must deviate from his path as he is “attempting to score.” Not sure that starts all the way back at 3rd base. He can also establish any path until a tag attempt occurs.
Only question is if this is an “appropriate” slide.
I saw the clip often on twitter yesterday and couldn't imagine what Pham was so hot about. If there was anyone out of line, it was clearly him. I suppose Contreras told him as much. Next time, take the lane given to you, PAB.
"Happy Pride and all that" after "he's really hot"
The bi flag for color coding the running lanes.
I love it and I'm here for it!
Oh is it pride?
Thank you for this clarification. I had originally read the rule as "...deviate from their direct pathway to A) initiate contact with the catcher, or B) otherwise initiate an avoidable collision." In other words, I thought "deviate" was a necessary condition to deem this illegal. It should be easy to fix this in the rule book, so I guess that means that it will stay as it is forever.
I see Reinsdorf has found his homer replacement for Hawk
The new play-by-play guy is awful. Steve Stone is pretty good for the most part. Schriffen is just awful.
Looking at the line/path the runner took,he had to deviate just to get to home plate.
“Getting to home plate” is his natural path. The rule is intended to prevent the runner from going away from the plate to contact the catcher.
Saying the runner has to stay in foul territory is somewhat at odds with the plate being in fair territory
Sort of the same as RLI.
That might've been a clean play back in the 70's when Steve Stone was a player, but he should know better now.
I expect that MLB will issue a memo clarifying this type of play, declaring that the catcher gets all fair territory while the runner is entitled to the foul line and all foul territory.
I'm curious- does the rule for Catcher specify they need to be in fair territory and cede the foul territory, or is that just the norm as a throw is presumably coming from fair territory? ie: If a LF is playing a ball in the corner and there is a runner trying to score, can the Catcher setup in foul ground and cede the full line+fair side of the plate to the runner? And if so, would the runner then be forced to move from foul ground (assuming he rounded third) into fair ground to avoid the collision?
Runner needs an unobstructed path to the plate. So if the throw is coming from foul ground, he could set up to the foul side of the plate.
@@MwD676There is a difference between saying that the catcher needs to yield A PATH TO the runner and THE PATH OF the runner.
If it is just a path then I would humbly suggest that the runner can cross over the pitchers mound and come down the 1st Baseline.
If it is the path the runner has selected then a runner who sets up on the infield side forces the catcher to the foul territory side.
@@ericblair5731 The point of the question is a hypothetical where LF has the ball well into foul ground and is throwing toward the plate. In this case, the catcher could be on the foul side of the base to receive the throw as long as he does not block the natural path of the runner as he tries to score.
It is not normal that MLB parks have that much room in foul ground. It is normal that runners establish a path well into foul ground because of rounding 3rd. Neither fact is pertinent to my statement.
My point is that nothing precludes the catcher from setting up in foul ground as long as he does not block the runner.
Insane that he was literally running on the infield grass on a sac-fly.
Was it?! If the throw hit him, it would not be interference because he is allowed to establish his own path.
Lindsay, please stop flashing the graphics so quickly. Many of us would like to read the graphic without have to pause or rewind.
Can we replace Justice Alioto with Justice Imber? A Justice does not have to be a lawyer or a law school graduate, but all Justices have been trained in the law. The laws of the national sport should be sufficient, eh?
No we cannot but you're welcome to replace Sotomayor or Kagan or Jackson.
I’d be mad too getting thrown out by Christian Yelich 😂
What’s your point? Must not watch much baseball
@@jrm2383 He has no arm.
Yeah, that too! 🤣😂
@@12-stringchords That throw was an absolute strike!
Great analysis! No idea what Pham was thinking tagging on that short of a fly ball, and trying to cause contact to pop the ball out
Also noticing how late the slide was.. glad no one was injured
3rd base coach sent him. 🤷♂
again great analysis thanks calm level tone... not making it seem like the world will end on every word.. i guess that is the announcer's job.
Who the heck runs that far into fair territory going third to home? Obviously, he has to tag up on the caught fly ball and all of third base, like all bases, is in fair territory but, knowing you could get an interference call or malicious contact (and guarantee yourself to be out…) I do not understand why he ran that route to the plate. And then…what is he saying to the catcher after the play? What is he upset about? He gave you the plate. He gave you foul territory AND the line…and you chose to come in on fair territory. What a hump…
You run that path to take the angle of the throw from the left fielder.
It is similar to the idea for R3 of "down in foul, back in fair" where the runner will lead off in foul territory and return to the base in fair territory to take the angle of the throw from the catcher to the fielder at third.
Yes. He is clearly trying to interfere with the throw by running way inside the foul line.
It’s basic geometry….the shortest distance between two points is around the pitchers mound. 🙄. It’s funny how baseball has become such a soft sport that they make rules to prevent the catcher from “blocking”, “interfering” or just setting up in the baseline….but it’s ok for base runners to deviate from the base path to “interfere” or “block” throws from the catcher or fielders. They’ve even made the bases bigger to help the base runners, yet all I see are overpaid crybabies who don’t seem to understand the true gift of the game. Sorry, I used to love baseball, but it’s become no fun.
@@MwD676 He may be trying to interfere with the ANGLE of the throw. There is no indication that he tried to interfere with the ball or the flight of the thrown ball.
@@user-px1gz7kd6j Of course. If his actions look intentional, then it would be interference.
Do Pham was being a big sensitive baby about it and was the asshole in this situation. Watching it live my thought was how far can you deviate into the infield while running the bases?
Glad someone took the time to fully explain the rules. Oh and the Sox announcers are tools.
Tommy Pham is a hothead so his conduct is not surprising in the least. I've come to expect this type of behavior from him, and he rarely disappoints
The base is right on the foul line, so if he’s tagging up from third, he should be hugging the line as he runs, yet he appears to be intentionally further in fair territory, which definitely makes this look intentional. It’s odd to see a runner that far into fair territory.
Probably hoping the thrown ball will hit him.
But he is allowed to do that. Absent a tag attempt he can start from directly behind the pitchers mound if he wants to.
It is very puzzling to me that the rules on one hand say: "the runner can take any running path they want" while also saying "the runner must slide into home on the foul side of the 3rd base line."
The runner can’t take any path if the purpose is to cause a collision. When tagging from third, the only path that makes sense is to basically hug the foul line. There’s no reason why he should be 2-3 feet into fair territory on this play.
@@Mosk915the rules don't require the runner to have a reason for any particular path they take to the bag.
Sure there is no reason to take the path he did, but he is allowed to take it and it is the responsibility of defensive players not in possession of the ball to stay out of his way.
@@ericblair5731 Did you watch the video? The rule clearly states he can’t deviate from his direct path to the plate in order to initiate contact. He was several feet into fair territory, so he clearly deviated. He also made no attempt to avoid the collision, which is also against the rule. Pretty clear cut he violated the rule.
Tommy was in the inside of the base path from the get go. perhaps that was the plan to avoid a tag? but he met his match at the plate, and got arrogant.
If you called this a slide violation for failure to avoid a collision, you'd have to eject me. For all intents and purposes, he was already sliding by the time he would have recognized the Catcher had the ball. He could not have in that window deviated path to avoid a collision. If you are saying that he should have run a farther loop towards foul territory to make sure he is in foul territory even before the catcher possessed the ball...that's ridiculous! You'd have to show me the text of the rule stating a runner must slide in foul territory. That essentially creates a runner's lane going into home plate. It's dumb at first and even dumber to have that at home.
The rule cited 6.01 (i) (1) actually seems to specifically indicate this is a LEGAL slide. "The runner’s lowering of the shoulder, or the runner’s pushing through with his hands, elbows or
arms, would support a determination that the runner deviated from the pathway in order to initiate contact with the catcher in violation of Rule 6.01(i), or otherwise initiated a collision that could have been avoided. A slide shall be deemed appropriate, in the case of a feet first slide, if the runner’s buttocks and legs should hit the ground before contact with the catcher. The runner’s lowering of the shoulder, or the runner’s pushing through with his hands, elbows or arms, would support a determination that the runner deviated from the pathway in order to initiate contact with the catcher in violation of Rule 6.01(i), or otherwise initiated a collision that could have been avoided. A slide shall be deemed appropriate, in the case of a feet first slide, if the runner’s buttocks and legs should hit the ground before contact with the catcher."
If you wanted to go frame by frame to see if his butt hit prior to his left foot contacting the catcher...I'd have to see better angles for that. But there is NOTHING in this rule cited about fair/foul territory for the runner. The rule indicates the MANNER of the slide is what matters.
You say pham was the only one upset or saying anything but you failed to mention all the screaming and hollering Contreras was doing 🤷🏽♂️
You are the Khan Academy of baseball. I love it
Hmm, I thought you were going to suggest that the catcher needed to setup in foul territory because the runner established his path inside of the line. But since this is the result, I suppose every catcher should just setup in fair territory no matter what.
No. Incorrect. There was zero deviation. Pham started on that line and that’s it. Whether he did it to get in the way of throw or not, that was his path. Zero deviation. Good try though
Excellent breakdown of the play! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Pham is an ex-Cardinal, and I'm sure that had a lot to do with his attitude towards the Brewers. He was going after Contreras, methinks. Good call.
100% agree with your analysis.
Awesome analysis you got a new sub in me. Nice post.
For the slide, can one cross over into foul territory to touch the plate (even with an outstretched hand or leg)? Because I would think cutting across the foul line and 3 feet into foul territory would be suspect at the least.
Isn't Joe Torre MLB supervisor of baseball officiating, should he make a recommendation of the slide rule or the baseball owners?
Did Allie Beth Stuckey ever apologize for her slanderous comments about John MacArthur where she supports Julie Roys?
Nice piece, thank you.
At lower levels, would this collision be severe enough to be considered malicious contact?
Great question. Not sure if there is enough for malicious contact. Hard slide for sure. Malicious? Tough call
Absolutely not. The slide was legal.
He got pissed that Contreras flapped his glove to say "bye bye" after that clearly illegal slide!! Pham can dish it out but can't take it? He should've been ejected for that bush move!!
L!
😂😂😂😂😂 BRUTAL, Lindsay.
Please, stop - they're already dead!
The fact that he wanted to fight proves he was out to injur Contreras
Hes gonna F someone up for sliding into the catcher? He could have slide outside!?... typical Chicago announcers too
I am happy, Pham is not anymore in SD.
Hold me back.
I believe Pham was hoping the throw would hit him...
He was running in the grass...
He fully intended to cause the collision (right or wrong), his behavior afterwards was a bit dramatic. He should calm down and head back to the bench (or minors per his contract this year). The pitcher looked like he was the vocal one that was yelling in celebration. Keyboard “experts” always say the players have emotions. Then maybe it was Pham fault for over reacting.
Pham, sooooo surprised
1:00 lmaoooo
Perfect video.
Thanks.
White Sox are just embarrassing right now
OK, so the path to home is the path to home... but said path shouldn't have been the curved Jeremy Bearamy route he tried to take to the plate. Pham should have been angling towards the back of the plate before he gets to the dirt.
The idea that is is a normal running path to home from third is totally absurd. The guy is coming practically from the front of the plate. He's not just a bit into fair, he's in the GRASS! Seriously, there needs to be some limit to their "natural" base path - the infield grass should be it at the least.
The rules don't require the runner to take a "normal" or "natural" path. They can take any path they want.
He had a chance (albeit slim, but still) at avoiding the tag making a slide to the foul side ... maybe a swim tag or SOMETHING other than what he did, lol
Yeah, his geometry needs some refreshing. The angle he took was abysmal. Outside edge and try to nick the plate with the left hand. Just a trainwreck of a sequence from soup to nuts.
The basepath rule is sort of silly. It's clear Pham INTENDED to create the situation from the beginning. He begins on third base. The 'direct' path is down the line, not 3 feet plus on the grass, and nobody is taught to run that way unless on purpose.
Love the new colour choices to show the fair/foul side of the base line 🏳🌈🏳⚧
He should be fined or even suspended. He made no effort to try for the plate. In fact he went another 2 feet deeper into the grass to make contact
The fact that his "basepath" was 2 feet into the grass is ridiculous.
They are allowed to run 3 feet on either side of the foul line, so that was legal.
@@smokin19861 No. 3 feet from a path that is only established at the moment of a tag attempt. Foul line is not part of that rule.
I would say the runner has the right to establish his path to the next base. Therefore the catcher must adapt to the runner's path. Here the runner established the path to the inside and the catcher clearly blocked his path to the plate in receiving the throw so interference should have been the call.
When is MLB going to stop this insanity and require the catcher to stay in an avoidable position for the tag?
Pham clearly established his path to the base (on the inside) and yet the catcher sets up in that path .....?
Looks like the catcher made some comments to Pham, but Pham definitely deserved it after that bush league move (on a Sac Fly!! Jeez…)
Never was a big fan of Pham. I think he is a selfish player that only cares about himself and his personal successes rather than doing what is best for the team he is playing for. Granted, this year he may get somewhat of a pass for it is probably tough to be "in it for the team" as a veteran ballplayer on the worst team in MLB and yes, Jorge Lopez, the White Sox are the worst team in MLB, not the Mets...your former employer.
It's true that he could be thought of as a selfish player, but the truth is he's not good enough to warrant me thinking of him at all. Just another mediocre player trying to make up for a lack of talent.
Catcher was set up right, pham straight up ran into catcher.😂
Pham is just continuing to throw his career away at the expense of his ego.. you don't team hop because of your athletic ability or lack thereof, it's because you got an attitude problem. The guy is a hell of a baseball player too and it kind of sucks to watch his downfall. I hope he can find what he needs before he has lost all the respect from the fans and the players.
This interpretation of the rules doesn't make any sense at all. Without a tag attempt there is no basepath, so if the catcher sets up directly on the 3rd base line, why can't the catcher claim: "I provided him a path, all he has to do is run across the pitchers mound and down the 1st base line."
I understand that as a matter of interpretation the officials are being told to call the catcher for blocking the plate when he sets up in foul territory, but it seems like that interpretation should be contingent on the runner electing to run in foul territory.
When the runner instead elects to run in fair territory, then I would expect the catcher to set up in foul territory, and more generally that the catcher is supposed to cede the line and whatever side of the line the runner elects to run in.
Instead this interpretation appears to be prescribing how the runner is expected to run from 3rd to home, which is contrary to the rest of baseball's rules regarding base running.
Man, I'm late again. 🤣👌
My favorite is when is starts shadow boxing has he enters the outfield. What a tool😂
Of course you can issue warnings at any time for any reason... but if you do anything here (and of course, doing nothing is a perfectly fine option), you eject Pham for being an idiot and trying to stir something up.
I wouldn't have an issue if the umpires decided to eject Pham for unsportsmanlike conduct.
From postgame comments, Pham thought he would probably be out but went because the third base coach told him to
The only problem with this analysis is that the runner does not initiate an "avoidable collision."
This is a classic case of everyone on the field doing what they are supposed to do and being in the same spot in the same time.
It is also difficult to classify a legal side into the plate as "initiating a collision."
The runner is out because he is out on the tag.
It is difficult to say anything else.
Clearly an an avoidable collision bud! 😂
@@badger1102 Legal contact is not a "collision."
The slide was legal. The catcher is in a legal position. The runner did not try to "truck" the catcher (which would be a collision.)
This is nothing more than legal contact.
Pham had a better chance at scoring if he slid to the far side/foul side of home plate.
That was a weak @$$ slide by Pham. Dollars to donuts, that's what the catcher was telling him, and Pham got his feelings hurt.
Illegal slide, then got mad cause the guy he could have totally avoided told him about it. Take another L.
We ain't taking that from the Brewers,,,
Yes you are.
3 times in a row, to be specific
Pham is a punk
He should be fined and suspended for that "slide"
Lucky nobody was hurt
Nice flag for this channel , suits you well
Tommy Pham always looked for confrontation (instead of just playing baseball), even with the Cardinals. He has mental issues. He’ll get his as$ whooped if he pushes it with the wrong person. I hope I see it. He’s a first class punk.
He could have just kept running upright and possibly scored.
it was a legal slide out on the tag no need for other explanation
Pham has a reputation as being a bit of a punk
Illegal? Straight to jail? The tag at the plate resulted in an out. Nothing illegal. Nobody goes to jail. Nobody even knows what the runner was upset about. Catcher tagged runner = out.
Runner is upset about being on a losing team.
Tommy Pham ran inside the baseline on purpose in order to hurt Contreras. He should be fined $50,000.00.
And suspended 10 games.
Bi Pride flag spotted lmao
Con stopped him cold out
How was that an avoidable collision? From where he was halfway down the baseline The only way to get to the plate without running around the catcher was through the catcher.
If you can’t avoid the catcher when you know he is setting up inside within 45 feet, you may not be a pro athlete
Sorry Pham,you ran to far to your left. Bad run job.
Pham is turning into a bit of a jerk. Can't say I miss him.
1:00 that happy pride was so good haha thank you!
"happy pride and all of that".... has me dying!
Pham is one of those guys that is known for running his mouth rather than playing ball. He's a very mediocre player. That's why he's on the White Sox.
Pham has always had the tendency to be a douche, so it was 100% a planned dick move by him. He only cares what he thinks and how he is right. Probably why a 'decent' player has been on 6 teams in the last 4 years. Anyways, the call was right and he is lucky he did his little half crap slide because he probably would have been thrown out of the game.