Steven Walter Guitars - Spruce or Cedar? Two guitars compared.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
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Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:58 Mallorca - Cedar
3:13 Mallorca - Spruce
3:28 Mallorca 2 - Cedar
3:46 Mallorca 2 - Spruce
5:29 Preludio no.2 - Cedar
5:49 Preludio no.2 - Spruce
6:08 Spanish Romance - Spruce
6:40 Spanish Romance - Cedar
7:17 Fugue from BWV998 - Spruce
7:43 Fugue from BWV998 - Cedar
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-Sigma 16mm F 1.4 lens.
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Terrific video, Evan. I did the same experiment with two of Steve's Spruce & Cedar guitars, about 15 years ago. He sent them both to me new, and I settled on the Spruce.
Professor!! Thank you! Amazing, how cool is that? I remembering listening to the album you played with the Walter. The Poul Ruders piece, right? Have you played many of Steve’s guitars since? Even in the short time I’ve played them they’ve gotten so crazy good. I had a 2013, a 2016 and a 2019 before these
I think I used that guitar on recordings of Ruders "Pages" and Giuliani op. 110. Both of them required a guitar with exceptional sustain, and Steve's guitar fit the bill.
I just purchased the spruce Im very happy with it beautiful bass and clarity and sharpness is so satisfying
For romantic songs, Cedar. For bombastic songs, Spruce.
Each guitar sounds exactly as it looks.😊
I love the cedar more. It is warm and richer in its sound.
Not an guitar expert, but the Cedar sounds more melancholy, more into the Spanish Spirit. The Spruce is brighter and clearer. It’s your preference that matters. Very nice playing and thank you for showing us the beauty of a Classical Guitar😊👍
I have 1969 Kohno No. 5 with a spruce top. I got it about two years ago. I was looking for new strings for it, considering La Bella Argento which I had really like on my Godin a few years back. Then I read that, since spruce tends to bring out the high end, low tension strings might be the way to go. I thought I would give it a try and the sound is amazing. Melancholy as you say. I just love it! But, yes that cedar sounds incredible.
No need for me so write any thing here. I would have written exactly the same. I'm an afficionado of the sun burnt Spanish sound of cedar but that doesn't mean it's nicer or better. Just different.
You don't say!
As expected, the spruce has more punch and clarity of the notes, whereas the cedar envelopes the notes in more warmth and is more subtle. If a performer wants express the technical aspects and have each note heard of a piece of music, each note ringing clearly as in a Bach number, the spruce does the job best. However, if the performer wants to convey a sense of fullness and tenderness such a piece from Tarrega should sound, definitely the cedar conveys that feeling best. Both guitars did beautifully in how they excell in their own individual niche. Great playing, by the way!
Both are pretty amazing guitars, the cedar is rounder and more 'Romantic' whereas the spruce has both definition and a certain sweetness and roundness to it as well. Both are great for different applications, there isn't really a 'better' or 'worse', it's good to have the possibility to enjoy both sounds.
I like the cedar, its mellow, dark with somber overtones, the spruce is good for happy go-lucky mischeivious sound, reminds me more of a folky guitar or even flaminco. They each ahve a place though.
Love the cedar.
It has a nicer tone to my ears, the spruce sounds more electro-acoustic like a slight piezo pickup sound. The cedar one just sounds like wood and strings, awesome.
Your playing is the best thing about this video, loved it.
Yes, spruce is what is used in flamenco guitars for that reason. Cedar is better for classical. They both sound great though
A truly great video.Thanks for this and your great playing
Have always been a cedar fan, but in this case the spruce I like better. Soooo many variables!!
Excellent playing and excellent video. Both took a lot of work
Great projection and clarity on the spruce, wow.
As a jazz musician i prefer spruce. Probably paradoxal, but spruce has more projection overall and still has a good among of bass frequencies too. Cedar is specific to classical pieces mostly imo.
Great comparison and superb playing. Thank you!!
Thanks so much!
Well done! Great skill! Besthe comparative analysis video yet .
Thank you very much!
Excellent video Evan! I really enjoyed it. I can't make up my mind, they both sound different and wonderful.
Rodrigo! Thanks for the kind comment. I'm with you - it's hard to decide!!
Really sensitively thought out video piece! Some lovely playing (nice room eh!) I was actually surprised how similar the guitars sounded, but ultimately, the Cedar had that mellow richness and the Spruce just a little ’crispness’ on the top end! Thanks for taking the time to produce this! 🥰🥰🎸🎸🍷🍷
I love how each guitar expresses itself differently based on the composition. Preludio no. 2 has a demanding presence and the low end of the cedar comes through much better. Where as in Spanish romance you have a delicacy in the high end notes that the spruce expresses much more clearly.
One of the first comments I completely agree with
actually for fast lines like prelude, you'd want spruce for the clarity. For spanish pieces where it's slow and melody on the treble strings, you'd want the cedar for the rich harmonics that help the melody sing.
Thank you very much for thic fantastic comparisson!! Exactly what I was looking for!!! And for me really difficult to say which one I preffer. Both are so drastically different but each one with his own divine personallity. I love both!
I like both Cedar and Spruce. Enjoyed your amazing playing......👌♥️
Excellent video! Thank you!
Nicely done !
My take is the Cedar guitar has a warmer and softer sound while the Spruce is more crisp and projects more in terms of volume. A concert guitarist might choose to play the Cedar in a more intimate setting and the Spruce in a larger concert hall. Both instruments are breathtakingly beautiful - thank you for this wonderful and enlightening demonstration.
loved the opening of the prelude no. 2. I could just hear it as a classical version of Crossroads.
I'll take both! Thank you very much!😊
Subscribed! On every piece of music it’s clear that cedar is the best for my ear. That extra warmth is always going to be favored by me. Great comparison and great video. Yes, properly edited video takes a very long time for even a short video.
Well done, the muted sound and warmth of cedar win me everytime.
Very nice. I listened to the whole thing with expensive Sennheiser headphones on and I always preferred the Spruce. The Cedar had a midrange kick that I didn't like. That being said it would be fine in and of its own, if you didn't go back to the spruce. But when you played the same on the spruce it was fantastic and a relief to hear a guitar that was nice and didn't have that boosted midrange to every note. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about the midrange of the guitar it self, but every note had a midrange kick in the cedar guitar, this might make it seem louder to you and the audience. The spruce had very good overall balance and a pleasant tone that I prefer. On a slightly different note; personally I will take a good sounding guitars and well balanced guitar any day over loud and badly blanced one. For example I've never had or heard a well balanced double top. I've owned two Dammann's, Ruck double top, Tony Mueller, Michel Bruck, etc etc. all in effort to gain a few db's so people can hear me better. I've found that it's totally not worth it. These days I want a good balance above and beyond anything else. Every one of the double top's I've had and have heard were all horribly balanced and had F#'s or G's - or some note close to those two - that always sounded like a boom box. This goes for the new one you have a video of too, sorry to be so blunt. DT's have these bass notes that pop out without control. Both guitars you're playing are well balanced but for me the spruce took the trophy - I'd also pick it over the Canin in your video - it sounds inferior to either of these. but in this video the spruce sounds more neutral - to me - and is the one I'd walk out of the store with. Thanks for all the work you do. Fantastic channel.
My only guitar is an Alvarez Yairi CY 130 with a cedar top. I’m looking to purchase a second guitar, probably a Cordoba C12 or similar model. I’m really leaning toward a spruce as it seems like it has a little clearer or brighter tone. I really enjoyed your video. It exemplified the difference of tone. Both tones are great with the cedar being a little bit of a rounder, full tone and the spruce being sharper, more piercing. Your video helped me make up my mind that my next classical guitar will be a spruce top. Thanks!
excellent playing ! thanks for the video, this helped me choose which guitar to purchase. I ordered the C10 today ! My other reference to choose the spruce is that my Martin D18 also has spruce top and ebony fretboard and I like the way it sounds. They both sound amazing in your hands so you probably could have made a C5 sound as good too, LOL !
Beautiful playing, as usual. Love the comparison. I have always wanted to play one of Steve’s spruce tops. I love how you don’t spend much time on the strings, as I have found that the guitar itself is much more important to the overall sound than the strings. I still play a 1994 cedar top with Brazilian back and sides that he made for me in Tallahassee. It’s beautiful.
I think the spruce top sounded great for the Preludio no 2 passage- nice compliment to the articulation and "pop" that the wood brings. Overall, I preferred the roundness and warmer tones that the cedar brought. Personally, I think it would be satisfying to pay attention to choosing which pieces to play or record on which instrument (every detail ultimately matters right?), but I do think there's no right or wrong regarding wood choice- only artistic freedom/expression. Also, I have to point out that everything you played sounded incredibly beautiful; especially tone-wise regarding the fashion in which you played each note and technique-wise. You have inspired me deeply today to pick up my classical guitar after some amount of time. Big thanks!! Subscribed!
Good job Evan doing this video. I know it require lots of time and efforts.
Wow very nice video! Interesting to hear the side by side differences
Glad you liked it!
Thank you for an excellent video. I listened to the comparison twice and honestly have trouble hearing the difference. I do find it interesting to read how others interpret the differences. Thanks again, KB.
Thanks for the comment KB! It’s much easier to hear the different with headphones or a high quality pair of speakers. Cheers!
I own a Spruce guitar, but in this video, I like the sound of the Cedar better. It has better dynamics.
The spruce is more responsive when you try to get different timbre, be it by playing closer to the bridge or changing the angle of your right hand, doing rest stroke, etc. The low strings can have an agressive, sometimes metallic sound, depending on your strings and mainly on how the top is built. Cedar doesn't have that range of variation in its sound, which is really convenient for certain playing styles/music and I'd argue it's a bit easier for beginners. It even has a far shorter development process than spruce.
The Spruce one sounds deep and warm, I love it.
A superb comparison video. Thank you.
Both guitars sound fantastic and your playing is exquisite. I don’t really have a preference, but I had a Ramirez with Cedar which I couldn’t take to. I’m currently playing a Cordoba - with Spruce, which has a much sweeter sound. Neither were in the league of your instruments (or my playing). If pressed, I’d opt for the brighter spruce.
Your playing is extraordinary and I can honestly say your guitar solos were way more compelling than any slight tonal difference between cedar and spruce. I get the endless discussion of which tone wood is "better" - yet the music is the star of the show not the wood (IMHO). Thank you for your efforts - I have a cedar topped classical guitar and I will work towards your level of mastery before adding a spruce topped guitar to my collection. Bottom line - I can't imagine anyone leaving one of your performances and saying, "If only Evan had a spruce topped guitar it would have been so much more enjoyable!"
Thank you,
Jeffrey
Hi Evan - cool video. Thank you for putting this together. I also reviewed your other vid with the Martin Blackwells.
I'm considering upgrading from my current Cedar (La Patrie Concert CWQ1).
I lean toward a Spruce top and really like the crisp sparkle. This works well with pieces like Fugue BWV998.
I'm kind of used to the darker, softer Cedar mood. This works well with darker pieces like Mallorca
Dang, I want both of 'em!
Hope to see more work from you! Liked and subbed
I'm typically more of a cedar guy so I liked it more on everything except Preludio No. by Joaquin Rodrigo, that's where cedar sounded too 'soft spoken' whereas the spruce sounded assertive like the piece needed. I'm grateful for this comparison, it helped me understand where I might prefer a spruce-top.
for me the difference in the sound has always been in the middle strings. separation is clearer in the spruce top than in the cedar which is why, in my opinion, you get that warmth, and spanish flavor from cedar. spruce notes are clear all the way through and sometimes, the most extreme example being a spruce lattice braced guitar with carbon strings, some of the treble string notes can be a bit "nasal" (especially the first string). at least that is what I have always heard
also Evan, my new Lucio Nunez guitar was finished last week so here is my reddit post on that since you mentioned wanting to see it
www.reddit.com/r/classicalguitar/comments/odca84/my_new_guitar/
I am.a beginner and have a spruce i bought well before i knew the difference. Now i know better to to go or the warmer spannish .melancholic cedar top onmy upgrade in the future. Thanks for rhe video
This video is great. The music is wonderful! ❤❤❤
Superb moving playing. Flamenco for my spruce top. Cedar for my classical mostly . Your playing the star of the show well done
No doubt must have both for different music requirements , besides choice of strings are also vital , very nice works !
Great comparison, thanks for making this! I found I preferred the warmth of cedar for the Spanish pieces, and the clarity of the spruce for stuff like the Bach fugue.
That' s my opinion too.
Very elegant comparison. And humble appraisal. The fact of the cedar top guitar having been played more really does seem to shine through. Micro differences in tuning seem to be less forgiving with the spruce top. I am currently awaiting delivery of a new spruce top guitar. I wanted the small boost in brightness although I love the look of the cedar. My guitar is matte. I wonder if other guitarists consider matte to be a little less "bright" in its sound? Thanks. --Douglas.
They both sound good in your hands!
Nice job!
Great video! I would choose both guitars as they both bring differnt moods, timber, and resonance.
My current instrument is a 7 year old Breedlove (made in USA) deadnought that uses Sidka Spruce top so I'm biased. It resonates so well and its timbre I feel in love with it within 10 seconds of playing it.
Both are beautiful guitars and played brillantly!
My opinion (been playing different guitars 50 years now) .. I think the spruce top was a little brighter mid range and the bass clearer . All comes down to personal experience
Thanking you so much. Definitely, a cedar sounds awesome, especially when you play play romance.
Wow, Evan. Amazing video and playing! It's difficult to say there's a favorite, each of them has their own characteristics. Buy maybe I'll have a tendency to the spruce this time for what I'm searching for. Which one you like more?
This almost epitomizes, if not exaggerates, the typical difference between spruce and cedar classical guitars. Both are amazing in their own right, but I find the singing clarity of the spruce guitar more preferable. Thank you for a wonderful video!
Nice playing man
Thank you for this video, Evan. Both guitars sounded absolutely beautiful. I felt like your Cedar guitar sounded more mellow overall. Your melody lines seemed to stand out a bit more than the arpeggios or chordal parts with the Spruce guitar, almost like there were different instruments playing the lines. The same lines on the cedar seemed to me to be blended like they were made by one instrument.
The second piece Preludio No. 2 sounded beautiful but somewhat stark and metalic on the Spruce. I couldn't hear all the parts as distinctly as I could on the Cedar. The Cedar handled your volume better and somehow I could hear the multiple lines distinctly. I doubt it, but could it have been that there was greater volume coming out of the Cedar and you were redlining the sound levels a bit?
I think I only liked the Spruce on the softer slow pieces. The music with more of an edge to them and more volume and intensity wasn't as pleasing to my ears on the Spruce.
I wonder if the sound was bouncing off the Brazillian Rosewood back and sides and jumping out kind of pointedly, but somehow flowed out more smoothly from the Indian Rosewood back and sides. I don't know, I'm no expert. it kind of sounded like sounds in an almost empty room with a concrete floor vs. sounds in a room with an old hardwood floor with some Persian rugs on it.
Overall, I love your playing and I love both instruments. I'd pick the Cedar at this point.
Thanks for this video. Very helpful i think!
First of all..brilliant playing thank you.!!
Both guitars sound absolutely beautiful.
Depending on the acoustics of where you are performing, choose accordingly.
So for larger venues where you're looking for more projection/articulation, it would be the spruce....and for smaller, more intimate locations... the cedar.
wow i know this is just to test out the two guitars but your playing made me tear up, so beautiful thank you
First of all, you have an amazing right-hand technique, that would make any guitar to sound like a dream.
Both are excellent guitars, The Cedar top, by nature, has a little depper - morkier sound , while the spruce being a lighter density tone-wood, has a more distinct-ringing sound.
I try to simply describe the Cedar as a MMMMMMMMM ( close your lips and pronumce a long M) and Spruce tops as N ( ( pronumce a long NNN). again both are excellent sounds. Thank you for A GREAT VIDEO
I found my preference was for the Cedar. Terrific video. The cedar sounded more balanced in tambre between the basses and the trebles, on virtually every piece.
Yes, the contrast in tones is as expected. They are beautiful in their own way. I have no preference really, because it depends on my mood. It is just like food, sometimes you feel like to have steak and some other times fish. I, my self, have cedar and spruce, which I play alternately.
I like the cedar, more center to the sound, not as much edge as the spruce
What I learned from this video is that one clearly needs to, instead of choosing their absolute favourite guitar, own a range of guitars. They both sound excellent...and very different. Personal preference, for me, would be the darker, rounder sound. But once in a while you want to pluck it up a notch and have some punch. Anyhow, great video. Super interesting to hear the back-to-back difference in the same phrases. You made the right decision with the editing.
Great and efficient video!👍 the best way to compare Cedar and spruce tops! and very well played also.. thanks! I recognize so and so the same tipical carateristics than i have on my two Contreras C1 spruce and C5 cedar. I'm pleasantly surprised by your spruce top, but i still prefer cedar all the way long, like for my guitars. ..Otherwise, did you already try both cedar and spruce together(with nomex in between) on the same doble top? i 'm curious to know if we can get also a mix of both sounds too.. 😃
That was a great comparison. I am a guitar lover more than a performer, but lean towards the cedar for most of the romantic and emotional pieces. Has that warm flourish.
Wondering how they would sound with gut trebles?
Great, lovely video. Thanks so much. I must say I guess you put more of yourself in the romance with the cedar one than with the spruce.
I'm trying to bring out the best qualities of each of the guitar. I think the 1st string punches a little harder on the cedar. Hard to say though. Also, difficult to play exactly the same way on each! Glad you enjoyed :)
Really great video, so useful to see them side by side like this! Thanks for the valueable content!
Thanks so much Beatrix! For the stream as well. Really have been enjoying your videos!
@@evantaucher thank you, glad to hear it :)
Thanks for the video. I have been struggling with the decision to buy a spruce top instrument. I have owned many cedar tops, but never a spruce top guitar. I am struck by the sound of many Torres designs that have a mellow sound even with a spruce top. I suspect that age is a critical factor in sound production.
Theo sound of cedar is so beutiful...amazing vídeo
When I listened on my phone, I preferred the cedar. Today I hooked up speakers to my laptop and I preferred the spruce. The spruce has more clarity, wider range/contrast to me. The trebles are clear and bass strings stand out, especially on the Bach piece. Both guitars sound world class and the playing is exceptional.
I come more from the steel string acoustic side, it has been held that cedar sounds good from the start but has little improvement over age where spruce takes time to age but will significantly improve with time. Not many old cedar Martins to compare but old spruce for sure is a treasure.
I like the Cedar on every piece.
Both sounds beautiful because they were in good hands
Beautyful, ❤Thank you very much for your very informativ Video🙏💐
I did a blind test, just listening. The one that kept impessing me the most is the cedar top one. I think it's a superior instrument, but perhaps as you say, it's because it's your main instrument and you know how to get the best out of it. But they're so similar that I don't think you need two of these guitars. I'd choose one, and just play on that one.
Nothing beats a cedar top even on steel string acoustic guitars it's my favorite tone wood. It's the most even sound across the bass mids and treble. I prefer mahogany back and sides with a rosewood finger board.
Really enjoyed listening to this comparison. I now know I enjoy the cedar top sound a little more than the spruce, even though they both sound great.
I tend to like spruce top for more modern music and find usually cedar darker as I have a cedar Jose Ramirez one but on this specific example your cedar top guitar sounds so good, it's got such a sweet sound that is not about how bright on non bright etc , is just the tone that is so good so yes on this occasion only, the cedar top one is the winner for me as I find the spruce one slightly bland.
Cedar = jazz/harmony/chords
Spruce = classical/melody/single notes
The sound quality of the recording is top notch. Even on my I can hear the differences quite well.
I love spruce!
They are failing to mention that the spruce guitar sound gets better with age.
It's a little difficult to say one is better than the other. Both guitars to me were clean sounding, especially trebles.
I think the cedar responds quicker.
I think in time, the spruce will have a more mature voice.
Both look beautiful and sound very nice. I have a spruce and cedar, so I know what it's like to have both.
You play wonderfully.
Very carefully done! Each one of those woods have pros and cons, depending on what is the result that one wants. For some passages I prefer spruce, for others I prefer cedar. Also, depending on the time that each one had to mature and dry, sounds are different. Good luthiers may make a spruce-top guitar to sound like a cedar-top guitar... So, I whish I had enough money to spend on more than one good guitar. Congrats on the excellent video!
Ricardo, thanks for the kind comment - I absolutely agree. Thank you!!
My favorite is the sound from the cedar guitar
I love the look of the sprucetop, but prefer the sound of the cedar. But I would be very happy to own one of them, because they sound both very nice.
I’ve had a spruce Loriente Clarita for about 14 years now and I, recently, have had a hankering for a cedar topped guitar.
I think cedar is more forgiving and is more mellow and romantic, but both have their place, so I would have both guitars and choose either for whatever mood I’m in. Also, I’d choose cedar if my playing is a bit clumsy, as spruce can be a bit unforgiving on notes that are not played cleanly!
I love them both.
Hey Michael! Sounds like you've had an enjoyable time with the spruce guitar of yours. I have to say though - I haven't found the generalizations about spruce vs cedar (brighter vs warmer) to be true. You hear it talked about everywhere, but it's really not the case. It's on an instrument to instrument basis. I've had cedar guitars that are bright and unforgiving, and spruce guitars that are sweet and warm that disguise every click/bad nail.
Great job Evan! I preferred the spruce, but the cedar had its moments where it felt more appropriate (particularly during romance and bwv 998.) How did you record the guitars? You got a great sound
Thanks George!! That’s interesting. I recorded them with a pair of Neumann KM184’s, about arms distance away, spaced about 12” apart
Great job as always Evan! Bach definately better on the Spruce as a bit crisper. otherwise so very close to my ear. Well done.
Muito legal. Grato.
Super nice video! As you said, both are incredible instruments. And I must say that your playing did them both justice. As for the comparison, I imagine it's a matter of taste. Much like fine coffee (my main addiction), some people live a sharper blend served black. I'm more of a "don't spare the real cream" guy, so enjoy the cedar a bit more. I actually prefer mahogany back and sides as well.
That is such a wonderful comparison to coffee!! I'm an amateur coffee roaster myself so I understand the addiction. Thanks for the comment and kind words.
You deserve millions of views.
Thanks Nikos. I'd rather have 100 meaningful views
GOOD SIR I HAVE TO FIND YOU ON SPOTIFIY
The cedar seemed a bit brighter, more volume in mids. I preferred the warmer sounding spruce. The exception was the faster piece which had a lot of clarity and separation with the cedar as where the spruce seemed to muddy up the quick notes. All in all though these perceptions were minor as they are both very good sounding guitars.
It's really preference when it comes down to it. So, I have both. My Cordoba C5 Iberia Cedar top sounds great. However, I just bought a Cordoba C12 Luthier Spruce top and it sounds amazing. My Spruce top will sound better and better as it ages.
Cool - I just bought a Cordoba C12 Spruce as well - been experimenting w strings mostly to get a nice tone from E1 - Knobloch carbons I’ve settled with - how about you
My preference for all melodies is cedar. Although spruce is preferred by most, cedar is always my favorite guitar top. Great talent!
So I am.....I've Ramirez cedar and she very sweety , in spruce with carbone strings I've a metallical impression , yes thé projection IS stronger but a part of mystery get out......but the two
Woods are that thé sensibility of thé player enjoy......good day of France.....
I find the cedar is a little warmer, maybe because it's been played more. The notes on the spruce are cleaner but have less low end. Nice comparison!
Didn’t hear a difference at all. I even listened it without looking- I had no idea when you switched guitars.
Having said that, your playing is wonderful. It took me places. Thanks.
I'm a novice but the Cedar sounded warmer to me while the spruce was a little harsher.