Mystery of the Tardis: a ghost in the (time) machine?

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  • @Shipwright1918
    @Shipwright1918 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Was partially addressed in the episode "The Doctor's Wife". The "soul" of the Tardis revealed she let The Doctor steal her away.
    In her own words:
    "Borrowing implies eventually returning the thing you've taken. Just what made you think I'd ever want to give you back?"

  • @DavidDouglas-q7v
    @DavidDouglas-q7v 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    What marvelous questions you always ask!

  • @PetesGuide
    @PetesGuide 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Excellent question. To which I must reply with similar. Do time lords have a limit on how many times they can regenerate? If so, maybe that model was retired to the repair shop to be stripped for parts once all of their time lords had used up their regeneration ability. With the lords’ going poof, there was no longer a bond, and thus no ghosts.
    Which would explain why the Doctor succeeded in acquiring and using the old tardis for so long; it no longer belonged to anyone, and realized that if it were to survive, it would need to find a new lord immediately (or at least before any critical parts were removed).

    • @xheralt
      @xheralt 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The Infinite Child retcon f*ckery means all time lords are infinite. Since the First thru Twelfth Doctors (and the Master) _believed_ they only had 12 regenerations, this must be false memories, perhaps implanted in any Timelord who goes offworld as some sort of safety precaution. To keep the secret of the Infinite Child. Since "First through Twelfth" also had no recollections of prior selves, this is further indication of mind-tampering by the High Council. He didn't "run away", they LET him escape.

    • @RabbiB0Y
      @RabbiB0Y 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      timelords have a limit they can only regenerate 12 times

  • @awesomeatronik
    @awesomeatronik 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

    Fun theory. Clara went back in time to before the doctor left with his granddaughter, her being in the doctors time stream made her a time lord the same way River became a time lord. It's Clara's Tardis she purposely set up for the doctors escape. Bootstrap paradox?

    • @JimmyBlether
      @JimmyBlether 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That's a very clever solution and might still work even though "she got 'killed' by a bird" as she's still technically zooming around the universe in another stolen tardis.

    • @triem23
      @triem23 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@JimmyBletherwhich is really the SAME TARDIS as the Doctor's.
      I mean, if you're gonna bootstrap paradox, let's get really paradoxical, paradoxical!

    • @purefoldnz3070
      @purefoldnz3070 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      cant stand Clara being the nexus point of all the Doctors lives. Awful.

  • @WhyNotAParadox
    @WhyNotAParadox 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Considering the heartless nature of the Time Lords, I wouldn't put it past them to disregard the sentience of a TARDIS in favor of decommissioning early, or to even have a way to force a TARDIS to stop mourning as part of "repairs".

    • @junomiller522
      @junomiller522 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      This was sadly common practice on Gallifrey. The type 40's specifically were prone to numerous faults and were made obsolete very quickly.

  • @MatthewCaunsfield
    @MatthewCaunsfield 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Very interesting question!

  • @RobertFisher1969
    @RobertFisher1969 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    My thought had long been that something happened to the Doctor’s TARDIS that “awoke” it. It had developed a mind of its own and wouldn’t always follow direction. The Doctor didn’t so much steal it as save it from destruction or “reprogramming” or somesuch.

  • @PilotFlight2Mars
    @PilotFlight2Mars 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    It would be great to see this as a 2 parter.
    Or even the ‘ghost’ or time echo of the original Captain being an internal TARDIS only temporary companion(s).
    Or the entire TARDIS Crew from its past being part of a time slip.
    As the 2 two time lords or crew try and put the echo event back in their own stream. The TARDIS itself slipping between it’s past desktop and external form and it’s current.

  • @MeNoOther
    @MeNoOther 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The Doctor's Tardis was the Doctor's Tardis when he/she worked for The Division as Jesse Dayl, the 8 Morbius Doctor's, The Fugitive Doctor, before having her mind wiped and forced regeneration into William Hartnell.
    The Tardis, Sexy, said she stole him in The Wife of The Doctor.
    She sent out telepathic messages to William Hartnell

  • @davidkerr4137
    @davidkerr4137 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I dont buy into the idea of there being a bond with the 'owner', considering that tardis are supposed to be piloted by at least 6 people.

  • @malstang888
    @malstang888 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Like it or loath it, it's now canon that the Doctor went way back before the "1st" Doctor.
    My theory is that the TARDIS was always the Doctor's and after their memory wipe they got drawn back to the same TARDIS. If you remember the episode "The Doctor's wife" the TARDIS made flesh said that she had kidnapped the Doctor.
    Old TARDIS used by the older Doctor's and then found it's way back to the "1st" Doctor.

    • @CaritasGothKaraoke
      @CaritasGothKaraoke 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Don’t forget that the Hartnell Doctor nearly picked the wrong TT capsule until a splinter of Clara redirected him.

    • @malstang888
      @malstang888 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@CaritasGothKaraoke Yes I agree. But it still stands as Clara could have done the work for the TARDIS.
      Also the retcon of the Doctor's past and Clara is problematic as wouldn't she have seen his earlier incarnations? Thank f##k it's all make-believe 😁

  • @AcbTyson
    @AcbTyson 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    My theory (based on this video):
    The Tardis was on the (metaphorical) scrap heap.
    Mourning its former pilot and its former life.
    The Doctor turns up and 'borrows' the Tardis.
    His initial intention was genuinely a short term use of the Tardis.
    The Tardis however is now invigorated with its new pilot.
    The Tardis makes a strong telepathic connection with the Doctor.
    Unbeknownst to the Doctor, the Tardis has telepathically 'encouraged' the Doctor to keep running and keep travelling.
    The Doctor's adventures have been organised by the Tardis, for the Tardis's own entertainment.

  • @JimmyBlether
    @JimmyBlether 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Honestly, these are excellent points. I'm not too well versed in who lore but the master had a tardis a number of times, and has also died repeatedly, so what does that tardis think (assuming its not also destroyed)

    • @PilotFlight2Mars
      @PilotFlight2Mars 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I was pondering as I watched this video…
      ‘What if’ the Masters TARDIS became evil, and through the deaths of the Master, it being cast aside for new TARDISs it became deeply psychologically damaged.
      ‘What if’ it decided it didn’t need a pilot and from the Masters past influence it embarks on a journey of revenge and destruction.
      What damage an insane and unstable TARDIS could cause.

  • @richdouble4380
    @richdouble4380 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Does it have to be the case that TARDISes belonged to any one person typically? We only see renegade timelords operating others and as implied in Journey’s End, the console is designed to be operated by a crew. Perhaps they were more usually just like a fleet of starships, warships or science vessels, as the situation required?

  • @Concreteowl
    @Concreteowl 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The Tardis was previously operated by... The Doctor. An Agent of the Division aka the Celestial Intervention Agency. They had their memory repeated erased. When it came to escaping Gallifrey (with some prompting) the Doctor returned to his original TT capsule.

  • @FortressMinimus
    @FortressMinimus 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I always got the feeling that TARDISes didn't "belong" to individual Time Lords. They were used by Time Lords for specific purposes or missions, e.g. exploration and scientific study, rather than as a family car. The Doctor's TARDIS, in particular, was used by The Doctor when they worked for Division and also alone (human companions like Lee don't count), when most were usually crewed by a number of operators (not sure if that's a Division thing or a Doctor thing). I'm guessing that's the same TARDIS as the old girl was able to sense her future (they experience time differently, remember) and thus disguised herself as a police box when the Fugitive Doctor went into hiding. So, when the TARDIS and The Doctor both ran away from Gallifrey (for the second time!) after the mindwipe they picked each other, subconsciously in the Doctor's case, as they were familiar with each other - the bond may have started during those missions but during the course of their many extended travels together after they fled is when the symbiotic link fully formed, something that wouldn't normally happen in the brief travels most TARDISes undergo with their crews.
    The upshot: IMHO there isn't really a previous "owner", unless you count Division.

    • @originaluddite
      @originaluddite 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah, without focusing too much on this concept of a bond, I had assumed they were state property to be used interchangeably.

  • @mcarp555
    @mcarp555 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I think that as others in the comments have pointed out, that there was no single individual piloting this TARDIS before the Doctor. My opinion is that they were used by crews of six (or more) for exploration, since long ago it was established that the Time Lords would watch but not interfere (at least until the Time War). They might have been like a fleet of golf buggies or rental cars.

  • @AJFisherDesign
    @AJFisherDesign 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Fun topic to discuss. I grew up watching Doctor Who on PBS when it used to air late Friday or Saturday nights I think before sign off.
    Is it possible this Tardis’ previous operator/companion was a distant future version of the Doctor who went back in time a la a closed time loop?
    Thanks again.

  • @jeffwalker7185
    @jeffwalker7185 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I believe that a Tardis should have up to six crew piloting it - hence the hexagonal control console.

    • @90lancaster
      @90lancaster 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Or 6 ages of the same person. (Because Doctor Who is weird like that)

  • @purefoldnz3070
    @purefoldnz3070 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    its simple in the new series its implied that the Tardis time capsules are alive and grown like coral.

  • @90lancaster
    @90lancaster 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    She likely engineered the circumstances of her own er... "Kidnapping" so she could be in the right time and place to get stolen.
    Oh and one of her prior owners was perhaps one of Clara's temporal duplicates (as there is nothing to say that her duplicates have to be human) but is the Gallirayans and humans are the same species is a whole other question (they likely are otherwise they'd not be able to re-produce) even with the 'after market' mods done to them. They even implied a normal born native had one heart a normal human life span and they also said Humanity had completely died and re-evolved "identically" many times (14 times I think ?) so yeah there is an obvious series of loops there and the doc if he knows it or not is likely defending Humanity as failure to do so would extinct his own species.
    It is a bit like Star Trek time in that regard (or if you stretch it a bit) back to the future..
    Think of there being an "Twin Pines" timeline and a later "Lone Pine" offshoot same deal.
    Like how the past Captain Kirk experiences IS NOT the same one Katheryn Janeway was taught at school & ironically due to recursive loops likely not the same one Johnathan Archer was taught either...
    The temporal eco-system seems to have some self-correcting functions... but one of those functions seems to be
    1, even if you kill humans off they come back (repeatedly)
    2, same with the daleks.
    3. The Timelords will exist as they do exist and again if they die they will "un-die" at some point.
    I think the doc likely is essentially some sort of god even if he has not become that being yet or forgot that he was that being and even actively avoided being it at some points (like the Pandoirca) I think that is heavily implies he's some sort of god being.
    So yeah.. bit pervy way to interact with humanity these days but there you go.
    Ultimately though I think I will see that loop ending when Jodie got physically vomited out the Tardis door.

  • @triem23
    @triem23 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Several people in comments are speculating the Doctor's TARDIS used to belong to a pre-Hartnell Doctor (and was "in for repairs" following a Division mind wipe), or a Clara Oswald fragment.
    Just for gits and shiggles, I'm gonna opine it used to be the MASTER'S TARDIS, and this is the true root of the Master's enmity.
    I'm gonna ignore those correctly pointing out TARDISes have been said to have six-person crews.

    • @CaritasGothKaraoke
      @CaritasGothKaraoke 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      This isn’t speculation. The Ruth Doctor had that TARDIS, stuck in police box form. Ruth preceded the Hartnell doctor.
      When the Hartnell Doctor went to steal a TT capsule, a splinter of Clara pointed him at his TARDIS.

  • @lpkelly
    @lpkelly 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Sadly, as long as Chibnall’s Timeless Child gubbins evades being taken behind the woodpile and shot, the TARDIS being the one from the pre-Hartnell Doctors’ existence remains the “best” explanation.
    Of course, it then kicks the question of the TARDIS’s origin further back into the historical long grass, almost a chicken & egg question!
    Plus, either way, how did Clara know to tell First to take THAT one? (But then, why didn’t she see the pre-First Doctors in “his” time stream? Questions beget questions!) And why did the TARDIS never seem to like Clara much? Some precognition of her eventual death & unnatural resurrection? She (the TARDIS) didn’t display anything like that with Jack, and we saw the lengths she went to to try to get away from him after the fact…

  • @KingofPotatoPeople
    @KingofPotatoPeople 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Was the Fugitive Doctor’s police box TARDIS the same one? Why was it a police box? In my mind the Timeless Child was given a secret TARDIS found somewhere in the universe, which was from the future…and it’s just the same TARDIS looping round through time. Which is actually what I think the Timeless Child is. The First Doctor is still first because the earliest Timeless Child is a memory wiped and reset Doctor from the future sent back in time. That’s my personal canon anyway.

  • @jamestwhelan6693
    @jamestwhelan6693 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Very “esoteric”…🤭! I think we would have a situation like “Snoopy Come Home”, where Charlie Brown finds out he has a “used dog”…😂! Snoopy still cares about original owner, Lila, but ultimately Charlie is his guy…❤!!

  • @mineofilms
    @mineofilms 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Be an interesting thread if the Tardis was really a living being, the distant distant future entity of the Doctor.

  • @lucidmoses
    @lucidmoses 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    That's a smashing good question and would have made a good episode back in the day. Nowadays I don't think that would even entice me to watch the new episodes.

  • @andiholman2543
    @andiholman2543 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Maybe it was always his. I imagine them being for official use only like ministerial cars.

  • @kasterborous1701
    @kasterborous1701 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    *Marnal, not Marnel.

  • @JoeyJoejoe-sq9io
    @JoeyJoejoe-sq9io 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Dr Who sucks now.

    • @the-scamp
      @the-scamp 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That's your opinion

  • @tooblackinto
    @tooblackinto 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    And it probably connected to the Doctor's previous incarnations (eg. Jo Martin's Doctor), so there's some timey whimy associations going on there. I was surprised that you did not make mention of this in the video (as well as Clara through the Doctor's time streams). In the Doctor's Wife, the incarnated TARDIS clearly states that she chose him. Also pointing to a preexisting connection perhaps?