C.S. Lewis said the people of the Church of England would have to evangelize their clergy for the church to survive. Even in his time the church had lost the true faith.
Exactly the main problem with the CoE is not outreach and other 'reaches'...rather the main problem is loose and watered down theology and not being guided by the holy spirit in all shapes and form
I guess it was easier when they could just declare their religion a state religion. Believe, or else. Or even create your own church just too get a quicky divorce. But when you sift speculative theologies thru the human mind any world view is possible. No matter how ridiculous it is.
@@hesedagape6122 Yes, considering their history it is hilarious. But, that's how religion works. You are right and everyone else is wrong. It's a business, selling a basterized religiously focused social structure. And a very convenient path to eternal life for those that can accept it as a fact. So why not belittle others Whether it be other faiths or other portions of the population. They believe that they have the moral and spiritual high ground. A superior mandate from their god that they conveniently created for themselves. And of course a strong desire too dominate the religious narrative to their political and economic advantage.
I am 80 years old and have played the organ in various denominations since the age of 13. I agree with the foregoing but I recall being told in Divinity lessons at school that you will not find God in places of worship, ,church or chapel but you WILL find him in the World. I can vouch for that 100 percent. And the poem that says One is nearer God's Heart in a garden than anywhere else on Earth is absolutely relevant. 😊
You cannot save a church with charity work alone. Yes people will come to take advantage of it, yes people will praise its impact in society, but if the gospel is not preached, and if people are not drawn _primarily_ by the gospel, numbers will continue to decline.
The more traditional catholic minded part of the C of E did great things in the poorer parts of London the UK and the world. Many Anglicans have despaired and voted quietly with their feet. The Anglican Ordinariate us growing and unity with the rest of the Western Church given hope. The English know Henry VIII started a process turning the C of E into a puppet of the State and a weak generic. Cut off from the vine it has withered.
@@johnfisher247 I see this argument used by more traditional people from different christian sects but honestly I find that it doesn't fit with what actually happens. People leave churches because it doesn't fit with what they want in life and their worldview. Modern people want convenience and find some trad religious beliefs to be bigotry. People leave because it's not liberal enough. The vatican II actually prevented that the number of catholics felt into a few hundred million instead of more than a billion.
The C of E does lots of good charity work and many of it's congregations are very vibrant, but I personally find it very wishy washy, almost a form of Christian 'lite'. I've now decided (in my 50s) to join the Catholic Church. I understand the point people are making about convenience etc, but for me personally I feel my life should fit in with my faith, not the other way around. 🙂
@@asggerpatton7169 I'd rather see those who have no interest in studying the bible and living according to its teachings leave, than to let them stay and corrupt the church with their unbiblical humanist ideas. A small church that takes the bible seriously is preferable to a large, people pleasing church. A church that conforms to society becomes irrelevant and soon dies, because it has no message. A church that stands firm might remain small, but will persevere. The church, after all, is not a human institution, it is the body of Christ and He will insure the perseverance of the saints.
I left the Anglican Church of Canada 30 years ago, to make my Profession of Faith as a Catholic. I had married a "cradle Catholic", and we alternated Sundays. Over in the late 80's I began seeing worrying changes away from scriptural teaching. I also found myself looking forward to the weeks we attended Mass. I was getting spiritual nourishment that I wasn't getting at my parish. On that Easter Vigil I felt I had finally come home.
I left the Episcopal Church 12 years ago for Catholicism. I have NEVER regretted my decision even for a second. I was literally ashamed of my faith whereas now, I’m extremely proud of it. Viva Cristo Rey!!!
The problem with liberal denominations is that once you capitulate to the society at large there is no reason for folks to come on Sunday. If one is not drawn to worship the Almighty as your focus to go there is no reason to bother.
@@marksandsmith6778 The Church of England has abandoned obviously biblical positions such as opposition to homosexuality. People who genuinely believe in the Gospel will not attend a church that accepts homosexuality, and people who don't believe in the Gospel tend not to go to church at all. A church that supports homosexuality caters to nobody and this is why they have nobody attending their church. They will continue to shrink
I'm an evangelical Anglican (Church in Wales) and I worship online. I love it occasionally I worship in person though much less due to covid. I do tithe occasionally.
You might be thinking of the Episcopal Church in the U.S. which is a total woke joke (It's been cencored by the Anglican communion countless times). But the recently formed conservative Anglican church in the U.S. (formed by disgruntled Episcopalians) is doing quite well.
There's a very simple solution to the problem of falling Anglican membership... Preach the Gospel, Teach the Bible, Help the helpless, Love your neighbour and don't allow any non-biblical ideas to be entertained at all. I worship in a very small church that is in obediance to God and the numbers of people coming through the doors is growing thanks to the ministry we receive.
They have grown by taking in members of other churches, not by expanding outside of that. Once those people die it isn’t a winning strategy. It’s like how the last buggywhip manufacturer had a monopoly on buggywhip sales.
Christianity as a whole is dying. Do you see that as a win? Do you look around at the death of faith and take comfort in the fact that at least you're a Conservative?
I'm Roman Catholic, but I have a lot of love for the Anglican tradition. But that's the problem, people want tradition, and instead of giving them religion, they give them a religious themed community centre. No wonder it's dying. It's forgotten why it exists in the first place
@@chefevilee9566 In terms of the Anglican Church, it sounds like something related to outreach, but I didn't look into it. It's also the name of one of the most notorious cults in the US after Jonestown. They all committed suicide thinking they'd be raised up by hyper advanced aliens or something to that effect.
God(s) don't grow churches, ...people do. People leave the churches when the churches are no longer needed, or relevant to their lives and no longer reflect reality. Hopefully, mankind is moving in the right direction to leave supernatural superstitions behind them.
It’s grim on the ground when you’re a minister. I’m in my 30s, trying passionately to get an aging congregation to become more evangelistic, more committed to practices like Bible study and gathered prayer, but too many are not interested. Too many want to gather for their Sunday social club. Even the ones who have been on the ‘welcome’ training courses I have set up can’t be bothered to welcome newcomers, let alone the normal people in the congregation. We’re one of the biggest churches in the Diocese (the congregation has grown from 80 to over a hundred since 2021) and I was horrified to discover that with 10 children we’re in the highest percentile for under 18s in the Diocese. I feel less like a minister of a church sometimes, and more like a chaplain in a hospice. Too many in the congregation don’t want change, and don’t even want new people. I had someone who had been ill return to the church after six months and noticed that there were about twenty new people there. Because of that, she said ‘it wasn’t her church anymore’ and decided to stop coming to church altogether. There are a few valiant fighters, but they’re getting older and older. As I say, it’s grim.
Unfortunately the problem is that people need to actually have a relationship with Jesus, with God himself. That is what being a Christian is , it is his holy spirit that empowers us to live for God , to evangelize and come to worship together because of the love of God. It really is sad people do need to wake up and evaluate their spiritual life what is truly important to them what do that actually believe. It's not about a church organization. I will say I help run an online evangelizing group and we too are having alot of trouble among Christians to want to join us to witness to people about the gospel of Jesus and pray with us at any age we have very few numbers.
This may speak more to the fact that people are craving close relationships between a few familiar people as opposed to more people, more newness. With all the uncertainty, constant change, and information overload, people want consistency?
@@TheSwissChalet that could be it as well but we have to also remember as Christians we should take great joy in new souls joining our family and welcoming them loving them as the Lord loves. All believers are family.
Here's my anecdotal experience. All the CoE parishes in and around my neighbourhood in Northeast London are either dying or dead (mostly dead). The biggest Anglican church near me which is attached to a large graveyard is now being converted in to some kind of community centre. Sad because it was a beautiful old historic building. Anyways, my experience with Catholicism is the complete opposite. In London at least (can't really say for other parts of England). My local Catholic parish seems to have grown since I started attending it. I was shocked to see packed Sunday Masses throughout the Lent and Eastertide seasons. Yesterday was absolutely packed and I had to squeeze in to a pew just to be able to sit down. Also lots of kids and mums with babies in the back. It wasn't this active during last Eastertide. Likewise, my other local Catholic parish is a smaller Church, but thriving. Note: These are just your basic Novus Ordo Catholic parishes - there is no Latin Mass or anything like that. Also, being a convert to Catholicism, my experience is that there are people out there willing to learn and convert to the faith. Every year, dozens/hundreds of adults get baptised in to the Catholic Church in London alone, especially in the bigger parishes like Westminster Cathedral and the Brompton Oratory. I don't know of any such thing happening in the Church of England except maybe on a very tiny scale.
Our local RC cathedral is packed, but their parish churches generally aren't. A lot of that is Poles. The Italian and Irish families have often fallen away.
@@thursoberwick1948 I hear that. I don't have any Cathedrals near me. Most of them are located in inner London. My local Catholic parishes are on the smaller side, but seem to be doing well. They traditionally had Irish roots but sadly many of the Irish have fallen away (or moved away or died). But now we have quite a few native whites still attending, as well as many Filipinos, Africans, Europeans and Indians. They all come about to imo show a rich display of Catholic faith. Plus our new priest is a young English lad who loves Arsenal.
@@shabs2134 I was actually pretty shocked to find out our local cathedral doesn't seem to have an Italian mass anymore. I know for a fact we have a lot of Italian families around here, and even today some of those people are native Italian speakers.... although some have been here around a century. The vast majority would be RC. There are certainly a few younger Italian immigrants too, but they seem to have become generic "New Europeans", i.e. Americanised in appearance and alienated from most notions of spirituality.
@@TruePT A popular football (soccer) club in the English Premier League. I was trying to emphasise how many of our Priests and Parishioners are normal locals and how Catholicism is healthy, at least in my area.
The German Protestant Church has around the same problem and we are about to die out. My village for example has about 450 Protestants, around 10 show up to church every week. 10 people. Even on some holidays like on Good Friday we were 12. Those are very VERY bad and sad circumstances and if we don't act immediately our Church will die. Christianity is on the brink of extinction here. It is very sad. Lord, please have mercy on us!
Even in the Catholic Church the clergy have ceased to be believers. I first realize this during the ‘60s, I read Hans Kueng and was impressed. Then when I was traveling on the train to Paris with my wife we shared an apartment with an African priest. I mentioned his name and he got very emotional, angry and while he did not much discuss him I realized that he thought of him as a kind of devil. Looking again I realized that Kueng throught of Christianity as a kind of myth, that the Bible was not to be taken as true. I look around today and think of Vatican II as a kind of desperation measure, to prevent what is becoming evident: mass apostasy. The anti-Christ has arrived with science perceived as magic.
As a teen from the UK I can confidently say the reason why most youth and people in general don't go to church is simply because life is too good in the west.. When life is too good we tend to push God aside and enjoy it. Seriously, back in my home country 99% of people would go to church every week and wouldn't miss.. It's only here that I have started to become worldly and start going out with friends since I have money. Pray for me.
same I came to the uk and I get mocked for my beliefs.... Not that ppl don't maintain respect for other religions but Christians get the heat... so much for tolerance....
Praying for you, and please pray this for yourself, to have a powerful hunger for righteousness (Matthew 5 and many Psalms) and God’s Word. See in contrast King Manneseh, eg, 2 Chronicles 33, where he did evil in the side of the Lord, let the people astray, heard the Lord cry out to him, and his people, but ignored the Lord (approximately verses 1 through 10), but then “11Therefore the LORD brought upon them the commanders of the army of the king of Assyria, who captured Manasseh with hooks and bound him with chains of bronze and brought him to Babylon. 12And when he was in distress, he entreated the favor of the LORD his God and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers.” Read the rest and see an example of repentance from the Living Word, and that of his son and grandson. Especially see the grandson, Josiah and how powerfully he responded to the Scriptures which had been neglected and lost in the temple. Follow his example.
I am a young person (in my early twenties) who goes to a CofE church regularly. My dad is the vicar there and as long as I can remember I've been the youngest member of the congregation each week. Even as I have gotten older, I am still the youngest member. I love my church and community but I am considering finding a catholic or orthodox church, I want to see what the spiritual experience is like there. Please pray for my church 🙏
I'm a member of the Church of England currently, but feel like I'm barely hanging on. It feels like a secular left wing organisation for over 50s now. There seems to be little respect for the congregations intelligence (was once given some playdough and told to "make something to show what church means" to me. A most condescending activity) and little respect for the authority of scripture ("it was written by mysoginistic, straight men, afterall" gets used as a dismissal of inconvenient scripture passages frequently). Other things: - Scoffing at the KJV bible as irrelevant - Complete unfamiliarity with the BCP, which they have thrown out for Common Worship instead - Insistence on abandonment of hymns in favour of cheesy, stale "Christian rock" with lots of unchristian emotionalism, and arm waving of course. - Very little acknowledgement of God the Father and God the Son compared to God the Holy Spirit. - Thinking they can "teach" people to "unlock" the gift of prophesy. - Open to the idea that Jesus is just one of many optional ways to God, in direct contradiction of Christ's own words. - An alarmingly growing devotion to secular political issues (racial politics, gender politics and environmentalism) above all else. In the end, what's the point? I feel such a sense of mourning for what it's become. It's become a political cult/party of sorts, one I and many others simply don't feel part of any more. We want The Gospel, not The Guardian.
Use your feet. Find another parish. Nowhere is perfect, but there's usually a better fit up the road yonder! I'm Catholic and even we have charismatic and folk masses that I'd aviod!
It sounds like you'd be much happier in the one true Holy Catholic Church, and unlike the Anglican Church which was founded by a greedy King who declared himself the de facto Pope in England to give himself a Divorce and loot Monasteries, the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ
I think you summed up nicely what I have found. I’m in the US and the same is true. Very little sacred left. There are some sincere and rockin’ evangelical services, which I appreciate. I prefer a liturgical approach so I’m more inclined to Trad Cath, which the Vatican is trying to stamp out or Orthodox.
abandoning the gospel? And where is your G_D? ... Forgotten. Most men read and read the books of Law and gospels and still have not see the Truth as all their time spending on reading they did not realized they were following men, religion and churches, not G_D... And not even learning the teachings that will take men to the Truth, the Lord teachings... not stories and opinions of men
@@itis4peace I'm trying to discern what you're saying. I am a Christan, like those in the CofE so we believe in the same God. What is the truth then? Help me to understand you
@@huwfulcher Once, I was in despair... crying to Him and beging Him to come again for people to know Him as He Is. The Truth is not in any book, not even in the Scriptures as writings are of men as of this world... for men to judge...for men to live...for men to eat...for men to believe... The Truth must be find in your heart... and as a puzzle all start to enlighten your soul and then...He Is. All people look for G_D but they do not know how to find Him. I came to show you the Light as He Is the Light the Way Him Himself... The Light, The Way, The One True Bread from Heaven. Few are those to listen and hear. He wants you to know Him as He Is Truly through Him not through men nor through the lost in letters and law made of and for men... to isolate, separate in faith, judge one another, punish and kill ... all in the name of their own god, creed, faith or religion, faith, churches, temples. One can go to a Temple, a church, chapel, tree, river and mountains but without G_D He will not listen, He will not be there. There are mysteries one cannot see nor understand as should be this way but men uses the unknown to catch souls praising the dead as saints keeping their dead bodies as holly reliques, crucifying your Lord and keep Him dead to invoke to call death, death as a holly mystery to praise and pray to. Your Lord, your G_D Is not there. Men uses men image to call for G_D in every sense when the True Way is not through men. Hear... is as blind guiding blind in circles
Nothing surprising at all. As an Anglican, I can say that the CoE is pretty much irrelevant these days. Their glorious past is long gone, and they had a great past for sure. Sadly the CoE feel prey to the revisionists, allowing the church to deviate from sound Biblical doctrine and teaching. The CoE thought it best to ramp up numbers by becoming more of a PC entertainment group, just like The Episcopal Church, rather than a Church which preaches the Gospel to the ends of the earth. A political action committee they have become.
Go to a fundamentalist, non Calvinist Baptist Church, or, if you can find one, a non Arminian, non "lose you salvation , fundamentalist Pentecostal church .
The glorious past never existed. The Church of England was born of adultery and greed. She grew up to be a prostitute and a mother of prostitutes. It was she who introduced to Creed-professing Christians the Gnostic doctrine that it is lawful to subvert marital relations to prevent the conception of offspring. No heresy has ever polluted the Church to the degree of this one.
The COE is in the minority in terms of the Anglican communion though. The GAFCON churches and Anglican churches in Africa and the global south are still bible based and HAVE NOT conceded to the excesses of the western Anglican church. Around 85% of the Anglican churches worldwide are still preaching and practising the correct version of Anglicanism. They need to replace Welby with someone representative of the whole tradition, not just the COE.
It is like that anywhere in Africa or Asia. Amen! The Europeans and white North Americans are ditching their Christian roots in the name of "political correctness" and based on the anti-Christian media hysteria, which is prevalent in the liberal and left-wing West.
The African clergy ironically are much more sound, despite their own problems, they are currently in a rift with the CofE over openly gay and transsexual priests and the blessing of those sorts of people.
Interesting report. It seems the pattern is consistent...the more liberal a church, the more it is declining. It would be interesting to see Episcopal Church of America contrasted with the more conservative Anglican Church of North America, not in terms of theology, but more in terms of growth and demographics.
When many bishops deny the essential doctrines of the biblical Christian faith why is it surprising that many people follow them? If this is the case why should they attend church services? Man made programming will achieve nothing
In the western world all church attendance is reducing. The liberal churches are showing it the most as more "devoted" members move to more fundamentalist sects. This is actually bad for all churches as the fundamentalist churches ultimately convert their members( particularly those born in the church) to atheism .
@@johnrowland9570 The bishops of The Episcopal Church will accept anything and everything in the church with one notable exception--doctrinal orthodoxy and traditional liturgical worship and forms.
The LCMS Lutheran church in America (most conservative non-Calvinist protestant church in the US) has a weekly attendance rate of 48.1%. Much higher than the Church of England to say the least.
The Anglican clergy who 'swim the Tiber' have an advantage: if they're married, they may remain so. Catholic laymen who want to be ordained must be celibate and yes, they don't like the situation. Catholicism is losing members too, but it still is short of priests, so Protestant clergy who switch brands have an opportunity in Catholicism (if they can stand it).
That’s kinda what happens when you realize you’re basically already Catholic and only have your own denomination because Henry the 8th wanted a divorce lol
I’m one of the two kids in a CofE congregation of around 20 people. Without other kids going with me, I can’t lie, makes it difficult to not leave for a bigger church
@@MrWoaaaaah thanks. Our church had a benefice (A group of parishes served by one incumbent (member of clergy)) yesterday and only 4 additional people showed up. To make matters worse, the other kid that goes to my church is my brother. The good thing is that we have a great ministry that leads us.
I ring the bells at my local 1000 year old church. We've been very successful in generating new ringers in what is also a declining activity. However, we are getting to the stage where we have more ringers than regular attendees at the services. The elderly stalwarts do great work in keeping the church going but the diocese seems to be the problem. They are massively into identity politics and promote D I E events which are of zero interest to the parishioners, all of whom came to terms with the non hetero sexual members of our community years ago. Similarly, the good and gentle Christians who attend services are not much interested in historic slavery guilt. It's not rocket science. Give people some solid scripture, time for collective contemplation and people who lead by example and the C of E can thrive.
Over the past 50+ years, the Church of England, along with other denominations, have become more modernist and have adopted more and more ways of the world. It's become a weak leader and no longer stands up for its teachings. No one really wants to follow a weak leader and they slowly quit. When the shepherds are doing their job, the sheep won't wander and as we have seen in many other denominations, the shepherds have not been doing their job. As a Catholic, I can see this in my own church too.
I observed this in London: I attended services at Westmister Abbey, which is absolutely huge, and I would say there were no more than 100 people in attendence. The churhes that are growing is the ones that have enthusiasm for the Lord are growing, those who attempt to adopt culture are dying
@@fredinaz799 some of those Anglicans are on fire for jesus. The best sermon I ever heard was from an Anglican bishop back around 1990. The sermon at Westminster Abby was pretty good as well and it was given by archbishop Desmond Tutu.
@@chrisschene8301 I grew up in the Episcopal Church in America and transitioned to The Anglican Mission in America many years ago. We were involved in Alpha and recall Nicky Gumbel at HTB. The sermon by Bishop Tutu would very interesting to listen to.
@@fredinaz799 I was inoculated against christianity 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. However, even though the whole thing is symbolic magic, what it represents is still the body and blood of Jesus. If one eats, symbolically or otherwise, this body and blood of a man, it follows logically that ritual cannibalism is practiced. A simple syllogism will illustrate this: P1: Jesus commanded his followers to eat his body and blood. P2: You symbolically eat the body and blood. C: You are practicing ritual cannibalism.
Remember the Church started with only twelve Apostles and a band of disciples, it can always repeat this feat if it stays on the straight and narrow, with the power of the Holy Spirit.
It is time to accept the fact that the origin of Anglicanism was sexual deviance and murder and so it should be of no surprise the Anglican Church has been plagued by error in regards to sexuality for some time now. Those who see it for what it is have left.
In 1988, I had the exciting privilege of visiting the home of my paternal ancestors - St. Peter Port, Guernsey, Channel Islands. I was able to attend Sunday morning worship at the main Anglican city church on the name-day of Saint Peter. The biggest shock to me was that there were only about twenty people there, and half of us were tourists! Later in the week, I visited a prayer meeting at a church of a different denomination and discovered warm spiritual life there.
I left the Church of England over 20 years ago after a visit to Moscow and the Church of Christ the Saviour. The Sunday service was utterly spectacular. The church was full to the brim, many people were outside listening to the service on loudspeakers. The showing of the true Biblical Christianity was there for all to see. I was given an audience with the then Patriarch Alexi, who though an interpreter, told me that the Orthodox faith is a a sound biblical one that does not bow to things of the modern age. It is Gods Word and must be obeyed. I thoroughly agreed with his words and 3 months later I was baptised into the Orthodox Church. I have never been happier. The churches are full to capacity ever week. The Services are all biblically sound, and yes, uncompromising. The C of E has totally lost its way due to its total lack of biblical teaching and 21st Century philosophy particularly in regard to ethics. It is high time it woke up and returned to Biblical practices and not trying to win popularity prizes with a vocal, morally lost minority.
@@siharpetrussimbolons.th.9470 The Orthodox church speaks from the Word of God. Those members of the priesthood who bow to politicians will answer to a much higher authority which the stand before our Blessed Saviour for judgement. They may hear these words to their eternal shame "you have denied me therefore I deny you. I cast you down"
@@Rose-jz6ix That is very true. I agree wholeheartedly that the Russian Orthodox church is heavily influenced by Putin and his odious regime. Opposition is often met with violence and prison which harkens back to the days of the USSR. Extremely sad to be sure.
The Church of Nice, everything is great and no one is ever challenged on anything is bland and boring. This is happening to Roman Catholics too. Traditional religious orders and parishes (such as TLM parishes or Ordinary one’s blessed to have a really good priest) are growing and thriving. The ones that try to blend into the culture are falling by the way side. Why go to church if you want to be part of the culture?
Well, even when it comes to RC, the decline is happening only in certain parts of the Western World, in other parts, especially in Africa and Asia(where I was born), it's thriving. I, myself, am not a RC, I'm Syro Malabar Catholic
If they would throw the hersey of Vatican II out the window and reinstate the true Latin mass in all churches. And if the Pope and the Vatican would become Catholic again, that would just be the icing on the cake.
@T.W. In Asia and Africa where there is close to zero TLM parishes, the rate of growth of Catholicsm is the highest amongst the world. So rad trads please stop complaining in a non Catholic channel.
@@KK-li1lw You've missed my point. A lot of parents used to drop off their children at church when I was little, and send them to Sunday school. The parents wouldn't generally attend the church themselves regularly.... they saw it as free childcare. I can't entirely blame them for that, but it meant that you ended up with children who didn't have much of a Christian homelife outside of Sunday school. It was good in a way since the children made friends, often had fun and learnt about Christianity, but there were other issues which leads on to the second point - When you hit adolescence though, very little was done to smooth the transition between childhood Sunday School and adulthood, and I think that's where they lost a lot of people. Some churches did have Scouts, Boys Brigade, or even youth clubs, but a lot didn't. I went from a very fun Sundsy school environment to a very dull adult service overnight. This probably alienated a lot of people. I know a lot of middle aged people who attended church as children but have no interest in it as adults, because little was done to maintain their interest o4 connections.
The Church of England that I attend is almost always barely a quarter full, although the congregation is larger. Most of them stay away because they're tired of listening to Woke politics instead of the teachings of Christ. Were another incumbent to take over, and run a religious church rather than a political church, they would without doubt turn up to the services again.
It isn't converts though. The issue at hand is that these demographic questions don't ask it you've converted it not. Bulgarians and other orthodox Christians who move to the UK (almost always London) are the ones who go to orthodox churches. I recall a similar study concerning Roman Catholics in Ireland basically found that of those who stop going to church 90% or more just become some form of None.
@@Gallalad1 do you have a source for that? I'm not trying to refute (in fact, it certainly is a realistic proposition, considering most of the Orthodox population are born Orthodox) I'm simply interested in the exact data :p
Im a Evangelical Protestant in the US turned Eastern Orthodox Christian (im 21) and my parish of some 130-140 people has about 60 people on average show up every Sunday usually. Half of us are converts, often Millenials with children and young Gen Z men like me Eastern Orthodoxy is growing 💪💪☦️
If, as was happening in the Catholic Church where I was employed, another reason for fewer funerals was that children who had already stopped attending chose not to give their parents church funerals. Instead they frequently opted for a quick funeral home service or graveside prayer.
The churches across denominations across the UK are in rapid decline. Immigration has kept the church alive, as the church in London is mostly made up of immigrants. The growth of Orthodox and Pentecostal churches is evidence of this.
Yes, he mentioned comparisons to the Orthodox, Pentecostal, and even Methodist churches. I feel as if there's one left out that should have been included...
I was an Anglican priest for 20 years, a Cathedral Dean twice in Canada, before retiring, having in my lifetime having been Russian Orthodox, Methodist, Lutheran, Roman Catholic in the end. One should be ironic about ecclesiological issues generally.
The thing is with the UK, Churches associated with being CoE, that happen to be conservative-evangelical (not charismatic) have much higher (and signficantly) attendance and are strongly linked (communally). They're very biblically sounds, the ones that have gone more progressive, have lower attendance.
now if only those scripturally sound churches would just wear some simple vestments and use the book of common prayer more :( overally they're showing the way of the Spirit for those who'll listen though
In a pamphlet entitled The Strength of the Mormon Position, the late Elder Orson F. Whitney, of the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, related the following incident under the heading "A Catholic Utterance": Many years ago a learned man, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. I became well-acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue's end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy. One day he said to me: "You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don't even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that's all there is to it. The Orthodox and Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism's attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days." 1 THE APOSTLES FAILED IN THEIR MISSION. THEY NEGLECTED TO PROPERLY APPOINT THEIR SUCCESSORS. WHEN PETER DIED, THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM WERE LOST FROM THE EARTH. THE CHURCH GIVEN TO THEM BY JESUS LAY IN RUINS, OVERCOME BY THE FORCES OF HELL. THE SO-CALLED CHRISTIAN CHURCH WAS NO LONGER THE LORD'S CHURCH. A NEW ORGANIZATION, A "GREAT AND ABOMINABLE CHURCH," CAME INTO EXISTENCE. THIS WICKED CHURCH FOUNDED BY THE DEVIL BECAME KNOWN AS THE "CATHOLIC CHURCH." IN HER CORRUPTION, SHE TOOK AWAY MANY PLAIN AND PRECIOUS PARTS OF THE GOSPEL FROM THE BIBLE, RENDERING IT USELESS FOR CONVEYING THE FULL GOSPEL PLAN. IT REMAINED AN APOSTATE CHURCH DESPITE THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM ONCE AGAIN RESTORED TO THE EARTH THROUGH THE PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claims to be a restoration of the original Church of Jesus Christ. In the 1820's a young man named Joseph Smith, Jr. received a series of heavenly visitations in which he was told that all the sects of Christendom had fallen away from the truth, and none of them still retained the authority of God. He and an associate, Oliver Cowdery, were ordained to the Holy Priesthood and the Apostleship by heavenly messengers in 1829, and they organized the Church of Jesus Christ on April 6, 1830. Prophets and Apostles, as well as the Apostolic authority, have continued in the LDS Church from that time. For more information about the teachings and practices of the LDS Church, see the official LDS website.
@@ГришаФэша except if it's a restoration it's a really bad one, like early Christianity wasn't even the Catholic Church, that surged on later, and early Christianity would be unrecognizable to Mormons, they probably wouldn't have had the belief in the trinity nor would have any structure similar to the Mormon Church
Anglicanism as we know it did not begin until after Henry's death. Other than separating from England he made no actual reform. That came after his death.
Yes, this is unfortunately true. When I lived in Belgium, I had to travel 40 minutes just to get to a somewhat solid Presbyterian church. And that church had only about thirty active members. And yet Christians in America (where I live currently) are convinced that ALL missionary resources need to go to Africa or South America. The third world is in desperate need of the gospel, absolutely. And I will never speak ill on My American brothers and sisters that give their time, talents, and money to mission work in the developing world; this is unarguably good and Biblical outreach. BUT the “post-Christian” Western European nations are struggling and dying, and it pains me to see Americans turn a blind eye.
@@mcgheebentle1958 Europeans turned a blind eye to Europe. The only people who have done widespread and obvious missions to Europe are the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. Maybe the Salvation Army a distant third.
@@mcgheebentle1958 do really expect that American missionaries in Europe would have much success convincing people who have a chosen not to attend church, to attend church?
@@eoghan.5003 I do actually. I mean this is happening right now as we speak. I know my comment was a little bleak, but there are hundreds of missionaries in Europe that are having great success. You just have to have missionaries that are well acquainted with the culture of post-Christian Europe. Western Europe is a type of apathetic secular, with the vast majority of people viewing religion as “outdated” or irrelevant to their lives. Some of the older generations are still holding onto the “science disproves religion”, while the younger generation is more open to nonChristian “spiritualism.” Europeans have a different view of work and government than Americans. We just need missionaries that understand these distinctives and are able to show Europeans a different way (mind you, I’m not talking about showing them the American way, I’m talking about showing them the Christian way.) So yes, I’m cautiously hopeful. There are a lot of places in Europe where small Christian revivals are taking place right now as we speak!
I left the Episcopal Church in 1998, after discovering Holy Orthodoxy, and have never ceased thanking God for leading me to His Church. Uncompromising, unchanging, timeless faithfulness to Scripture and the Fathers, compared to apostasy...my only regret is the wonderful people who remain in a Tradition defying body that cannot honestly be called a Christian communion.
Since the reigning monarch is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England, one thing to keep an eye on will be what happens when Queen Elizabeth II dies and Charles takes the throne. The Queen is very devout in her Christian faith (note how openly and passionately she talks about it during every Christmas Message). Charles on the other hand is less devout, is married to a divorcée, and has said he prefers the title “Defender of Faith” instead of “Defender of *the* Faith”, indicating a desire to change the spirit of the role. If the titular head of faith is not committed to the health of a devout Anglican Church, I think that is another reason for decline.
Why do so many people rag on Prince Charles all the time and wish he would disappear? He's not perfect, but who else is? He's less creepy than Andrew, who is supposed to be the Queen's favorite. Charles may very well surprise you all if he ever gets a chance to be king. The times ARE a-changing, and we all have to adapt or die. It's the way of Nature, whether we like it or not. As for the Defender of the Faith, consider that that title was bestowed first upon Henry VIII, of all people, hardly a paragon of virtue by any means.
Charles, sadly, is an open perennialist, he has no faith in Christ as the only true way, merely as a way to reach at some nebulous "perennial truth" at which all religions are also reaching at.
"A theology which denies the historicity of nearly everything in the Gospels to which Christian life and affections and thought have been fastened for nearly two millennia […] can produce only one or other of two effects. It will make him a Roman Catholic or an atheist.” -C.S. Lewis, while discussing the Church of England considering female priests
I don't know what's happening in England. but here in the Philippines Anglican Church is growing in numbers. I am active church member and i can see that Children are becoming active too because the Church are engaging Children with very interesting and inspiring activities and Masses. especially here in the Cordillera Region, Anglican Churches are growing strong.😊😊💪💪
Churches that take in dissatisfied people who leave other churches grow everywhere. Catholic countries see competition from non-Catholic churches. Protestant countries see growth in Catholic Churches. Although migration and charity/community help has a hand too. Even in an extreme Catholic country like the Philippines, less and less Catholics attend mass and people dissatisfied with Catholicism leave to another church. It’s one big “grass is greener on the other side”. Probably because a big stablished church just stops trying as hard to get new members and can just work on holding on to the current members. Can’t beat mega churches, those people’s whole job is to do religion on overdrive.
@@danielobrien189The IFI belongs to the Lambeth Conference and so it’s allied with the Church of England, Episcopalian Church in the US, etc. The IFI remains a strong and vigorous church in the Philippines: the chief justice of the Supreme Court is an Aglipayan (as IFI members are known in PH). There are already IFI churches in the US because of Filipino immigrants there-another sign of growth. (All of this coming from a Filipino Roman Catholic, so I suppose my situationer of IFI is objective.)
I'm grateful for the Ordinates for Anglicans in the Catholic Church. I'm hoping that they will keep the flame of Anglican culture and faith burning, even as the main Anglican Church declines.
that's the case in the US and Canada. The Ordinnate is growing, offering a traditional Mass in English, often a pontifical style Mass. All without the sourness and arrogance and right wing politics of trad Catholic groups.
The clergy do, but most of the general membership doesn't. An Anglican layman is more likely to marry a Catholic and the kids become Catholic down that route. I've seen that far more often. Roman Catholics are also as guilty as the other churches of not doing much in the way of missionary work within the UK.
@@marcokite Some of them maybe. I've been to our local Tridentine Latin mass here (I'm not RC btw) but the congregation was not that young. Average age late fifties, early sixties, with some much older. Didn't see anyone under thirty there. Attendance was fairly respectable- only the RC cathedral gets large numbers round here.
I'm Episcopalian, happy and proud to be Episcopalian, but am extremely worried about the future of the Anglican Communion. There are a few active young adults in our church, but it is very clear that there are a lot more old people than young people, and there are very, VERY few kids who are active in our church. Even fewer young priests. In rural areas, Episcopal churches are already unstaffed. It's really chilling. Definitely more severe than in the Roman Church. I agree that Anglicanism should become more "full-fat" in terms of theology in order to survive. We need a more robust teaching on the eucharist, heaven and hell, the power of prayer, and chastity. Of course, as Benedict XVI said, the church will be smaller, but more faithful, and that's ok.
There is a small but steadily growing traditional Anglican communion here in the USA. We grew out of the lunacy and epidemic of heresy that infected (and still ravages!) the Episcopalian church in the USA in the 1970s. Seek out a traditional Anglo-Catholic church in your area and attend . . . if you can squeeze into our busy nave on most Sundays.
@@Borzoi86 that’s great, but it sounds like you’re referring to the continuing Anglican movement, which is outside of the Anglican communion. I’d be pleased to visit them, but I’d have the same hesitation about joining them that a Roman would have about joining an SSPX community. I’m very bullish on third world/global south Anglicans, it seems like they’ll be the anchor of our communion for the next century or so
@@TheBrofessor Thanks for your reply. You are technically correct that we are "outside the Anglican communion" since Canterbury does not recognize us. But our bishops decided that Canterbury is fatally afflicted so why not "return to the faith once delivered to the saints." (A recovering Presbyterian here but a flourishing traditional Anglican now for nine years. Soli Deo Gloria!)
I go to a church plant from one of the very few thriving CoE congregations. We have the exact opposite problem. So many people attend, especially young people, that we run out of chairs some Sundays. The message from the pulpit is the simple gospel and the worship is always impactful. When I ask newcomers why they started going, it is always because they were recommended us by a friend.
There's one argument that's being missed here, and that's that the reason so many people leave the church might not be that churches adapt to new social norms, but that they haven't adapted quickly enough to stay relevant for too many people. Problems may include: - Accepting edicts from an undemocratically chosen authority - an increasingly scientifically literate population being asked to accept a host of supernatural claims - clergy not being aware of other approaches to answering people's spiritual needs - an inadequate answer to the increasingly widespread problem of loneliness
Back in the summer of 1971 I visited England. While there I attended a Sunday service near the hotel where I was staying. At St. James Paddington on Sunday morning there was a congregation of just ten which included me a Jew. This fit in what I had been reading. On the previous Saturday I attended services at Bevis Marks, the oldest synagogue in England where there was a nice gongregation. Later on this trip I was fortunate to attend a Sunday evensong at Canterbury Cathedral where a boys choir was assisting in the service. It was just beautiful.
Ezeoma Tamunotonyesia Dr. From Nigeria. Solution go back to the Bible, Matthew6:33 seek the kingdom of God & His righteousness all other things will be added you. Lord Jesus Christ is alive and active in the universe. He is working out HIS purposes out all over the Earth. World wide revival is going on now. Those living a righteous & holy life relying on Holy spirit (St. John 15:5) will be taken away soon at the Rapture. Then man of sin 666 will rule the earth for 7yrs. Etc etc.
Anglicanism was always a rather lukewarm faith. Its a faith you generally inherent it, you certainly do not convert into it, as it lacks evangelicalism. I know almost no religious Anglicans, they don't really know scripture. I always felt that it was Roman Catholicism light version. It was always quite liberal, and always went with the times, but I think they have gone too far now with their woke rhetoric.
exactly that is the reason why CoE is now in its pathetic state...it has watered down theology blended in with the liberal atheist culture at large along with compromising the gospel of christ
Danke für Eure Treue zum Glauben. Wenn manchmal auch Zweifel nagen, so ist doch immer wieder der Glaube an den Gütigen und Allmächtigen unverrückbar. Am 112. Tage des Überfalls von Kyrills Russland auf die Ukraine fragen wir uns demütig, ob die bisherigen 177.695.444.321 Gebete denn nichts bewirken, jedoch wissen wir, dass wir uns bescheiden müssen. Danke, lieber Gott der Liebe,Gott Sohn Jesus: Der Du immer in Deiner Allmacht zuschaust und mitleidest, in Auschwitz, in Butscha, in Stalingrad, im Großen Tsunami, beim verheerenden Hurrikan. Danke, dass Du zuschaust und mitleidest, denn als ALLLLLLMÄCHTIGER Gott hast Du es doch gar nicht nötig, mit dem kleinen Menschlein mitzuleiden. So danke ich Dir, Du allmächtiger Zuschauer und Mitleider mit einem dreifachen kräftigen Amen,amen,Amen. Wer müsste Dich in Deiner liebenden, zuschauenden und mitleidenen Allmacht nicht lieben, lieber Gott der Liebe.
What a lot of people do not know about the Anglican church, is that it is responsible, (through creation of the King James version of the bible in the early 1600's) for bringing literacy to the masses, not just in England but throughout the world.
As someone who grew up in the Episcopal Church USA, and left in 1980 after they weighed anchor and set sail to secular winds, I am not surprised by this information.
I'm in my 30s/English and have never been to church outside of Christenings, marriages and funerals. Never read a Bible...etc. It's pretty standard these days, I've never known anyone that attends Church outside of those three events. I've found myself becoming more interested in religion over the past several years and looked into some local churches during lockdown. Some put their Sunday Services online but checking them out actually put me off. They had no life or energy to them, no one under 50... it was pretty grim. A major change is needed if they want to reverse that.
They can't reverse it, only the Sovereign God of the Universe can control the destiny of His church. It is exactly where His sovereign purpose has decreed.
It sounds like you've only been looking at Christianity. In which case why? Are you actually seeking a theology that best makes you understand and worship God or are you just wanting something to make you fluffy and nice? You should approach things from a blank slate and look at the merits of each given faith. Christianity in it's orthodox incarnation is fails in every measure. It doesn't own any characteristics about itself. Not it's name, not the name of its founder and you'd be hard pressed to find any practice that is prescribed by the bible. Even with the bible the only God given scripture is the old testament. Not even the supreme figure of the Christian faith was given a scripture according to yourself. The scripture associated with him is the new testament. Which is more of a biography. Although I understand your reservations but look at Islam. It is the complete faith that is logical from every angle.
@duouk2000 Hello there, I am a Christian living in England and I can attest that you are right about church attendance. It is unfortunate that you could not find a church that is has any life. It is really encouraging to hear that you are becoming more interested about Religion. If you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins, was buried and rose again, then you can be saved and go to heaven. I hope you think about this, and it sad that this truth is not being preached in every church over the UK. I would you encourage you to continue to seek for the Lord and if possible find a Church(assembly) not forsake the assembling of ourselves; (take a look at Hebrews 10:25 KJV in the New Testament, towards the back of your Bible.) I understand it can be hard finding a living church these days but God promises they will always exist in every age.(Matthew 16:18). I am able attend a Baptist church nearby with lots of willing believers and a range of ages. I hope you continue to seek God, but remember the Bible says it is a gift He gives us, not something we earn from Him. I hope this is helpful, Louis
It’s a painful thing to see. I’m relatively new to my faith but connected with my Anglo-Catholic church in my city. It took me a very long time to find somewhere that felt as if it fit for my faith, as every other church I visited and spoke to were on the extreme Protestant or more “new age church” style of worship, which did nothing for me. The beautiful 14th century church in my hometown was a miserable affair, the services being small in attendance with little to no community spirit, we sang along to new Christian-pop songs instead of actual hymns, and the vicar certainly didn’t seem as if she was bothered too much about the quality of service being provided. Now there is nothing wrong with this type of practise, but to a newcomer to the C of E like myself, I found the lukewarm approach to spirituality disheartening and cynical, so the draw of the more catholic inspired wing of the C of E was intense for me, and was something that I felt more attuned to in terms of actual devotion and practise. I am not alone in this either, every member of every medieval parish church I have spoken to have expressed their desire to reconnect with the high church side and more catholic side of things, with a few even making the moves towards conversion to Roman Catholicism - a move I may one day consider myself. Yet the people in charge of the C of E seem to have the idea that they need to make the church more and more progressive and pander more and more to the new age spiritualists, which is fine, but is against what the traditional and even newer members of the congregation seem to be asking for (in my experience). As for the British public, this is a different issue entirely when it comes to drawing in new followers and getting into the good books of the public. Unfortunately, years of secularism and refusal to help the church through fear of offending some has effectively killed off any basic knowledge of the church in the view of the everyday Brit. The general public seems to be in this unshakeable state of malaise and hatred of anything and everything that isn’t on their TV screens or benefits them in terms of intoxication or greed. My parent’s generation (40-50 year olds) seem to be very anti-Christian, cynical, and unwilling to venture outside of their door to try new things that they can’t eat, drink, or use to flaunt on social media to flaunt their disposable income. This is a generalised view, of course, and these people are generally still lovely, but it’s obvious that there is a serious lack of faith and positivity in the lives of the British public right now and it is showing in terms of church attendance and attitudes towards the C of E. I don’t know if the C of E as an institution can be saved, and perhaps if it can’t be, then it is for the best. The Anglo-Catholics can gravitate towards the RCC, and the low church Anglicans can gravitate towards the more prominent Protestant groups. Either way, I just hope and pray that the ancient churches are not innocent victims in this and can carry on in a religious manner.
For a church to be "ancient" it has to be at least 1000 yrs old. The oldest Protestant "church" is C of E which is only 500 yrs old. The Catholic Church is 2000 yrs old.
I resonate with this very strongly. I'm an Anglican and was briefly in ordination training but for personal reasons I could not continue. However some of the things on training were shocking. Critical Race Theory featured in the core reading for ordinands. Anything remotely connected to the dreaded 'T word' (tradition) was scoffed at mercilessly. You have to be on board with arm waving modern cheesy Rock worship music or you're not considered to be spiritual. One Ordinand was even wearing a Hindu bindi dot on her former everyday and was not remotely challenged or questioned about her unbiblical views on her "third eye" or her "chakras". Indeed, the main thrust of the meetings was around 'racial justice' and 'going carbon neutral by 2030'. It is not q church any more, its more of a middle class left wing charity with a lukewarm spiritual veneer. I would suggest looking to RCC or Orthodox, or perhaps a more Conservative protestant denomination. I am still lost spiritually, and don't know where I'll end up, so I have no bias to a church. All I know is that the CofE did more to hurt my faith than strengthen it.
@@BlueOstinato you’ve put it perfectly. I pray that you find a path to follow on your spiritual journey. The final straw for me has been coming home from university to find my local parish church (CoE) has become even more modernised and resembles something that to me has no element of English Anglican Christianity anymore. Unsurprisingly the attendance has fallen even more to almost nobody attending at all. I have decided that, upon my return to my university city, I will be speaking to the good people at the RC cathedral and discussing what I will need to do for my initiation.
Thankyou, I listened to all your words . God bless you . Here in America we have some of the worst goings on in churches ! Some terrible pastors .. They seem to forget that God is watching them .
I was confirmed in the Diocese of Southwark in the Church of England in the mid-80s while I was attending university in London. Used to be the only Chinese altar server in Southwark Cathedral. Really like the Catholic High Church liturgical worship at the cathedral and the Great Missal sung (sometimes in Latin) on Sunday Solemn Eucharist.
@@miltonthomaslowe High catholic in the sense of Roman-esque beliefs and traditions. They are considered Anglo-Catholic in the Church of England. I am Anglo-Catholic in the Episcopal Church. There's a lot more varying views on things outside theology such as LGBTQ+ Rights and what not. Overall, I know enough to write a book on it, and I don't even know the beginning of it.
@@SirRyanChadius thanks Ryan. The original post mentioned great missal in which Latin is sometimes said in the mass. How often is Latin used? Second, is, is Anglo Catholicism is distinguished from the Anglican church in the use Latin liturgy? As I understand Anglicanism has articles which prohibits latin. Can you explain if possible?
@@miltonthomaslowe Yes. The Church of England is so designed that various congregations can have very different flavours, and some do. Many default to a certain flavour, and have become very vague. In my limited experience Anglo-Catholics don't tend to use Latin, but some probably do. It's a self-defeating movement as many leave to join Rome.
@@miltonthomaslowe Not per se. Latin is just kinda seen down upon becuase of the Franca Lingua reasons for the split in the first place. Ultimately Anglo Catholicism is just high liturgical. I'd say the only things required are big poofy vestments, reverence for eucharist, and just believing similarly to people such as Saint John Henry Newman*Without splitting off from the church directly, whether that be because of the aformentioned gay rights, women in priesthood, or just thinking the Pope is a stinky loser or something* Obviously though, it's complicated. I can explain to you my thoughts, you can find other peoples thoughts, and you can read about it. TLDR: No, it's not required to be anglo catholic to have latin, nor is latin outlawed, but instead seen as taboo.
i live in the US and am 81 years old. For a little over 12 years I was an Episcopalian (US Anglican). Then about 30 years ago i left because I could see no evidence they believed in or let it affect it in any way what the Bible said and what the church tradition was. I became Catholic. I have not been to church since the pandemic started. Why? in all that time I can't remember a single sermon that showed the priest actually believed in a supernatural reality. If there is no such reality, there is no need for a church. the only thing that our minister says is that Jesus loves you, but nothing is required of you. It got to wondering why bother.
Is this your experience in your Catholic parish too? If so, you may need to find another parish, or at least talk to your priest about his views. Sadly there are quite a few heterodox Catholic Priests out there. In my local Catholic parishes, the Priests obviously preach love, well since that is the greatest commandment, but they also preach about repentance, the devil, hell, and the sacraments.
"I can't remember a single sermon that showed the priest actually believed in a supernatural reality" So true. This is the crucial problem of modern Christianity. Lack of faith in the clergy.
I left the Episcopal Church and became Orthodox 24 years ago and haven't looked back. I was tired of being blindsided by innovations that run from silly to heretical. The rector at the last church I attended was a big fan of John Spong, a bishop who openly denied the Resurrection of Christ and the Virgin Birth among other things.
Yes, Episcopalism is more liberal, but you went from bad to worse. The Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox churches are the spawn of satan and the scum of the earth. Jesus and the Bible NEVER gave the "the church" the power and the authority to "save" people, dispense salvation, redeem souls from sin, guilt, and hell or be the sole arbiter and interpreter of the Bible and what it means. Sacerdotalism is a synonym for satanism. We are saved by Grace alone through faith alone in the Trinity of God, the Deity and full Godhood of the Lord God Jesus Christ and his sin atoning, sin paying for, penal substitutionary death and His glorious Resurrection, NOT good works, sacraments, rituals, the church, church membership, joining the church, church attendance, rosaries, scapulars and various other blasphemies. The book of Revelation calls the roman catholic church (and orthodox)the Whore of Babylon and the mother of abominations. Get out of it, run for you life, before it drags you to hell!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd be very interested in attending qn orthodox church to learn more but I'm over an hour's drive away from my closest orthodox church. Very few and far between!
@@BlueOstinato It's very easy, It's the Catholic church(which is already bad enough) on crack. The sacerdotalism(sacramentalism) ritualism , formalism, and legalism is completely out of control and is a mirror image of the Pharisees. Especially if you count theirs' (and the Catholic Church's) extrabiblical, unbiblical tradition in addition to the sacerdotalism(sacramentalism) ritualism , formalism, and legalism, they are modern day Pharisees.
I was born into the Church of England and had attended for most of my life. I'm an old man but it wasn't until a few years ago that I left. As I identify as orthodox the situation became untenable because everything thing became so watered down that in one sermon, the priest suggested that there was no such thing as blasphemy with far worse being said. I'm afraid, although I'm a believer, I am completely disenfranchised. Therefore, thank you for your channel.
My paternal grandmother died in the 1950s and my maternal grandmother died in the ‘60s. It never occured to me, while they were living, to question them closely about their understanding of the relationship between religious beliefs and practices on the one hand and religious organizations on the other hand. I think religious organizations such as the Church of England have done - and continue to do - many things that are helpful to individuals, to families and to society as a whole but my personal view is that Christianity is and always was a personal religion - not an institutional one: i.e. that organization is a useful tool of the church but that the church consists of all believers, regardless of our denominational affiliation or lack thereof. For that reason, I’m not particularly concerned about how many people profess to be Christians (see Matthew 7:22 & 23), much less how many people are affiliated with religious organizations or denominations. A couple of years ago, I heard a pastor mention his concern that the number of people who were attending services in a particular church building was declining. After the service, I suggested that he re-read the story of Gidion’s army (Judges 7) and consider that there might still be too many people attending services in that place. It would be well for Christians everywhere to consider that real “church growth” is the spiritual growth of Christians*. Whether the Lord chooses to translate that into numbers of people who profess faith in him or numbers of people who attend formal or semi-formal worship services is entirely up to him. *’Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus, Just to take Him at His Word; Just to rest upon His promise, And to know, “Thus saith the Lord!” Refrain: Jesus, Jesus, how I trust Him! How I’ve proved Him o’er and o’er; Jesus, Jesus, precious Jesus! Oh, for grace to trust Him more! Oh, how sweet to trust in Jesus, Just to trust His cleansing blood; And in simple faith to plunge me ’Neath the healing, cleansing flood! Yes, ’tis sweet to trust in Jesus, Just from sin and self to cease; Just from Jesus simply taking Life and rest, and joy and peace. I’m so glad I learned to trust Thee, Precious Jesus, Savior, Friend; And I know that Thou art with me, Wilt be with me to the end. Louisa M. R. Stead, 1882
Your personal view is wrong. Jesus put men in place to govern the Church. The Church is the final judge in disputes between Christians. They are first to try and work it out between themselves, then they bring it to some other Christians, and if that doesn't work, they bring it to the Church. The Church must be something other than the set of all believers, because it is impossible to bring any dispute before all believers everywhere. You cannot be commanded to observe an impossibility. Also, your commitment to nondenominationalism is insensible. You say the Church consists of all believers. Believers in what? Conveniently undefined by you.
basically the truth. African churches growing are those that recruit and deploy ministers and missionaries not those who have a lot of pew sitters. Unfortunately Angliicans see ordination as too great a thing
@@iphidamasfilms1245 A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. So you are welcome to think I’m wrong. On the other hand, someone else who is reading this might benefit from continuing this dialog. The view that the Sanhedrien was the highest authority on Earth was what led many Hebrews to join in demanding that Pilate have Jesus crucified. A millennium later, the view that a church organization was the highest authority was what led many to assume that burning “heretics” was the right thing to do. On the one hand, anyone reading what I wrote about believers being the church can define “believers” any way they wish. On the other hand, I’m willing to consider anyone a member of the universal church who doesn’t claim to be without sin. I’m aware of the instruction Jesus gave about church discipline - as recorded in Matthew 18. Like you, I don’t understand the phrase in verse 17, “tell it unto the church” to mean that every Christian in the whole world should be involved in every dispute between two Christians. Instead I understand that phrase to mean that, only after steps one and two have been carefully undertaken, if the matter is still not resolved, the local congregation of which those two Christians are members should be asked to make a decision. If you prefer the hierarchical model of church organization, that probably means you understand the phrase, “tell it unto the church” to mean that the pastor or the officers of the congregation should make a decision and, if either party to the original disagreement is not willing to accept the decision, disciplinary action is appropriate. I understand “tell it unto the church” to mean that step three in the process is for any and all voting members who attend the next “business meeting” of the congregation to carefully consider both sides of the dispute and then vote on whether one or the other or both parties to the dispute should be a) suspended from one or more privileges of voting membership for a specified length of time or b) deprived of voting membership until or unless both parties are willing to abide by the decision of the local congregation. I can think of only one situation where such a decision should be made by some other entity than the local congregation. In a situation where the dispute is between a pastor and a lay member and IF pastoral assignments are made by an administrative council elected by delegates of several local congregations, it would be appropriate for that council to decide whether the pastor is in the wrong and, if so, take whatever action is deemed appropriate by the members of the council - but not to exceed depriving that pastor of financial support and assigning a new pastor to take his place.
@@snuurferalangur4357 In you're opinion is Jesus god? If so is he all powerful? If he is both why can he not communicate with everyone on earth directly himself? To me it's all a fairy tale, no god at all.
My husband and I have journeyed in our Christian faith into the Anglican Church in North America. We watch what is happening to the CofE and The Episcopal Church and weep. There are some lively and traditional CofE parishes but they have a hard road in front of them. The ACNA has emerged as a safe haven for Sacramental Christians who can no longer abide progressive worldviews.
Same here. We had to leave former denomination that had slipped from Biblical Orthodoxy into woke heresy. Anglicans in the UK are seeing this trend as in the US Episcopalian churches. ACNA is more in line with the Anglican churches throughout the world who are sticking with the Bible.
After attending our previous, more "contemporary", church of 12yrs, the pandemic allowed us to reset and seek a church that aligned better with our theological beliefs. We ended up at an LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod). However, we were exploring the ACNA as well. Unfortunately, one of our requirements was also to be apart of our community, and the nearest ACNA church was over an hour away across state lines. I believe (given the right diocese) the ACNA is a lovely option and many should seek it out! (Of course, I'm very happy with my LCMS church, and I'd probably have made the same decision given the robust theological document of the Augsburg Confession that the LCMS ascribes to).
"The ACNA has emerged as a safe haven for Sacramental Christians who can no longer abide progressive worldviews." The ACNA allowing some jurisdictions to "ordain" women makes that not completely true.
Attended an Anglican Church in a village in southern England for 18 months between house moves It was pretty much rammed every Sunday and had to run multiple services It was and is full on Charismatic with links to Holy Trinity Brompton mentioned by other posters Anglican churches running under the New Expressions model also seem to be doing well So the picture seems to be forget denominations and look at the theology of the individual church Those which hold to a radical Spirit driven life are doing ok
Holy Trinity Brompton is not normal Anglican. Charismatics are a VERY VERY small minority of Christians, and not all of them are actually Christian (Bethel rings a bell).
@@rachelm9350 A recent report showed that 'Pentecostal' churches, including Charismatics, are actually the fastest growing stream of Christianity across the world. 'Not all of them are actually Christian'. May I ask how you come to that statement please, as it seems to be somewhat adrift from evidential reality.
@@mauricefrost8820 The Jesus preached at Bethel has more in common with the Jesus of JWs or Christian Science. Its not the same Jesus. Its not the same message, and its not the gospel. The focus isn't on saving the lost but acquiring super powers, which they think can be transmitted by their select group of who they call apostle or prophet. The gospel is not preached. Here is just a few of the false things they teach: th-cam.com/video/5SmYzDIXekk/w-d-xo.html
as a member of the rebel Church of Nigeria, formerly a province in the COE, I wanted to join back to the COE when I moved to Germany and I kid not when I say the atmosphere was drab. Most sermons were so cold they put me to sleep, I could only remember two preachers that sparked any fire in the church. Unfortunately, the church didn´t have a permanent priest then, so we had to welcome an officiating priest once every two months, I spent almost half of the sermon t looking up the visiting priest´s view on theology, to ensure I wasn´t going to be fed the wrong message. It got so bad that I left service sometimes empty, so I had to switch to a baptist church. In the baptist church, I met an Indian lady and her experience was much similar to mine. I miss the hymns and the eucharist liturgy though, but overall I don´t think I will ever go back.
As an Episcopalian in the US choirboy and acolyte and now almost 76 years old I have seen the Church for years being torn between progressive and conservative sides. One reason for this problem is that many people from other demoninations became Episcopalians for social and status reasons. This also would include the Clergy and wives of the Clergy.The Church has become so WOKE!
You mean there is less hate today for homosexuals and you can’t stand it. You’re not focused on the real issues like protecting children from paedophile priests and pastors within these churches and why the church is hiding their crimes to protect the church - and not the children. The C of E was born out of adultery and set up by Henry VIII just to enable divorce which is the main thing Jesus preached against. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality in his sermons or preachings only adultery and divorce - but you haters will vote for Donald Trump even if he’d been married 30 times - but not if he was gay…. and monogamous. The Churches are in decline because people see you as you really are and they are repulsed.
Social climbing Episcopal clergy, especially former Methodists and Presbyterians are the bane of the laity and the greatest recruiters for Catholic, Orthodox and even Buddhist churches. I finally told my erstwhile Presbyterian rector when he stopped by my barbershop that I couldn’t think of any reason for showing up aside from having raised Episcopalian and that that wasn’t a good enough reason to bother anymore. Like everyone else the vestry had hired since the ‘fifties he was a supercilious preppy with Ivy League connections having attend the divinity school affiliated with Columbia University. People like that are worse than useless. If the Episcopal church wanted good clergy they would pay the ordinands way through church divinity schools only and also demand that the ordinands live in community while training. But it’s too late now as the church has pretty much already died. I became Buddhist having read the entire Alan Watts canon. My favorite Anglican clergy are the ones who quit, like Watts and Tom Harpur, both now deceased. Harpur wrote The Pagan Christ.
I am Filipino here in the Philippines, and I am certified Anglican. and I still going to Church because attending Mass makes yourself complete as Human being 👍👍
In addition to the decline in attendance and affiliation is the practical issue of real estate. After the reformation the Church of England "acquired" the medieval properties of the Catholic Church. From the most remote country chapel to Canterbury Cathedral and York Minster, the upkeep of numerous buildings requires huge amounts of cash. This has seen houses of prayer built by the widow's penny, turned into expensive museums with a side line in services. The C of E is basically a property consortium using historic funds to support notional congregations. When the Anglican communion succumbs to the inevitable, what will happen to thousands of medieval properties?
@@hesedagape6122 let's get real. Even internally they are projecting the end of the CoE within 30 years. Electing another nationality, what happened to Bishop Michael Nazri-Ali?
An uncomfortable truth is the Queen of England, Supreme Governor of the Church of England (a title handed down from Henry VIII in 1534) signed on a bill in 1967 permitting abortion up to 28 weeks gestation, or 7 months. One might expect some moral stance from the monarchy, but the religious role makes it even more onerous. Without getting political, she could have just abstained from affixing her signature. The slippery slope is of course leading to unbiblical marriage, etc. You can't have it both ways.
28 weeks , that’s 7 month old , what they would call a Premature Baby if it was born and spend Thousands of £ with teams of Doctors and Nurses fighting for its life in an Incubator!
The monarch not signing a bill (granting assent) would be the same as a veto. Under the British constitution the bill cannot become law without the queen's signature, so that would have precipitated a constitutional crisis. But your point stands - she should have refused if she had any moral principles. King Baudouin of Belgium (a Roman Catholic) was presented with a bill legalizing abortion in 1990. He refused to sign - so parliament declared him incapacitated, passed it into law, and then restored his capacity. The Church of England has abandoned anything resembling orthodox Christian faith. Gay marriage, gay and women "bishops", feminist sermons. The pink logo says it all. Perhaps it's the inevitable fate of a church which, ultimately, only exists because once upon a time the King of England couldn't get a divorce from the pope.
@@genghiskhan5701 Better a constitutional crisis than millions of murdered babies. Moral choices are hard even more weighty on the head that bears the crown. Again, the British monarch is also the head of the Church of England which makes it more incumbent for moral leadership.
Most old churches are full of old people who dont want new people in their groups. From what I have seen I'm supprised at the lack of friendship and understanding in many of these places. So sad and opposite to the way.
This is also happening in the churches of the Nordic countries for decades. They get baptized and never show up after that. They are members of a church on paper but have never step foot in a church building.
The effect of wokeism in the C of E should not be underestimated. That's why people are looking to the Orthodox and Catholic traditions, people are craving the authentic message, they don't want some diluted and PC version of the faith that's more in tune in with "the times" they want the true message full of tradition and mystery.
Wow I couldn't agree more! I'm Greek orthodox now converted 11 years ago and never looked back!! I was a devout Anglican but got very dismayed with the whole church I was used to growing up all the changes were kinda not biblical! I feel so much more fulfilled in the Greek orthodox church.
I went back to the Anglican Catholic Church here in the USA. They kept the old liturgy (1928 BCP). The music is wonderful (no electric guitars, basses or drums - just a pipe organ). All the 'smells and bells' too. Seems like they're gaining lots of refugees from the episcopal church.
Is there a reason you didn't mention statistics for the Catholic Church in England? Seems like that might have been an interesting comparison next to Eastern Orthodoxy.
@@christophersalinas2722 Thank God Poland is the fastest secularizing country in Europe. Tho I wish it was lietuva my souther brothers who would atlast abandon the religion of their enemies.
I am CofE. Some of the things the Archbishop of Canterbury has come out with is insane. It is saddening to see my local Church in sharp decline. We're lucky to get 15 on a Sunday... But, there is hope! I am to be baptised in July, and hopefully people will follow my example
Hi Joshua, thanks again for your work. After watching this one, I’d be very interested in a similar video looking at the the Scandinavian national churches (Norway, Sweden, Denmark).
The Anglican Church modernized and has accepted all the modern beliefs for good and evil. When church looks like and offers no more than the rest of the world, why bother?
Let's be real the issue is that the church stopped preaching, teaching and living out the gospel. It substituted the veracity of the gospel, it's foundation, for liberal moralistic teaching and acclimated to the culture rather than the culture acclimating to tje gospel.
People need substance to stand on and fill up with! We need to gospel taught in its entirety! The church isn’t dying it’s ceasing to be the church so people are walking out.
I had a good time in the Church of England before returning home to Catholicism. Problem was, it was not a demanding faith, and didn’t really nourish me. Felt very little emphasis was given on sin and repentance in the mainstream of the tradition. I’m sure there are good parishes, particularly in the evangelical and Anglo Catholic traditions, b
@@richardharrold9736 Yes and no. It is why _most_ people don't attend church, or come only on holidays, and live largely secular lifestyles. But for those who truly embrace faith, it's exactly the opposite. Those people _want_ what you dismiss as "the sin, repentance, and guilt tripping." Those are the people looking for moral and spiritual guidance, in order to be better people, and attain salvation after death. Those people _want_ the rules to follow, because those rules, they believe, tell them how to live as better people. A similar thing happens with ideology, and Geo. Orwell correctly identified it (with emphasis added on the relevant part): “[Hitler] has grasped the falsity of the hedonistic attitude to life. Nearly all western thought since the last war, certainly all ‘progressive’ thought, has assumed tacitly that human beings desire nothing beyond ease, security, and avoidance of pain. In such a view of life there is no room, for instance, for patriotism and the military virtues. Hitler, because in his own joyless mind he feels it with exceptional strength, knows that human beings don’t only want comfort, safety, short working-hours, hygiene, birth-control and, in general, common sense; _they also, at least intermittently, want struggle and self-sacrifice, not to mention drums, flag and loyalty-parades…_ Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a grudging way, have said to people ‘I offer you a good time,’ Hitler has said to them ‘I offer you struggle, danger and death,’ and as a result a whole nation flings itself at his feet.” The appeal of some ideologies, and the appeal of many religions, is that they offer a person a chance to be a part of something greater than the individual, but people have to work and sacrifice for it. But they do it, very willingly, because they believe the very struggle, the difficulty, makes the reward all the greater. The modern, liberal, increasingly secularized Protestant denominations have lost sight of this, and that's why they are losing members. People who want a secular community center have a wide array to chose from; they join a _church_ for something different, and something harder, but commensurately more valued because of it.
This is a concern that keeps churchmen at the established churches awake at night, trust me I know, because I'm one of them. (1) There is some truth that the sheep tend to flock where sound doctrine is preached, rather than culturally sensitive safe spaces are created. (2) I wonder how much of that Orthodox Church growth is a result of changing geographic distributions of the global population though? (3) What the statistics do show is a general decline in church attendance and an increasing number of people who identify as not having any particular religious affiliation. We are living in a post-Christian world and church leaders will have to become imaginative about how we go about reaching people.
Yes, Churches have become imaginative about how they reach people. Primarily, they try to reach people by making their churches irreverent and otherwise compromised. They've made themselves soft-exits for people to leave Christianity.
If you're assuming a "post Christian" church, why do you even want to "reach" them? I would think that clergy, who love _being_ the "Noble Lie", are the problem that spiritually hungry people _flee_ in the established churches!
Church leaders need not do more than listen to the minds of the young sons. The relationship between the Father and the Son has been severed by a spirit of conflict and intolerance for voicing irrationality, dissent and distrust. The clergy as the Father has been executing moves without relation to the Son and is surprised when he leaves.
@@Nick_fb Christ was always obedient to the will of our Father in heaven and his adoptive father (Joseph) on earth, even he didn't understand or was personally opposed to it.
I took my sons to Sunday school for the first 18 years of their lives. I still practice only because I separate my belief from the C of E. I despair at the unacceptable, woke leadership of Justin Welby who does great damage to the level of church attendance.
There was only one reference to Jesus in all the comments and it was about His love, not that sinners need to repent and accept His forgiveness. Liberalism vs. Conservatism is not the issue. God sent His Son Jesus to the cross to be the sacrifice for our sin. All we have to do is accept His sacrifice and believe in Him. Then confess to others so that they might believe as well. Social programs are a result of the love of Jesus in our hearts. But repentance must come first.
It is in one sense. A lot of these churches are not preaching Christ. In fact, I've heard some of their sermons and scratched my head as to what Christian content there actually was.
im a British Anglican, and the biggest downfall of our churches is this woke stuff, we have a woke all inclusive Archbishop of Canterbury and its making the church lose its way. The church doesnt seem to understand that people want church moral guidance, and the more the church moves away from tradition, and in to the woke world, the more attendance will suffer, is suffering, and its true, the more the individual churches fight the instruction to go woke, those churches are growing, while the others are not. Complicated for us tho, because our churches are state backed, so in some ways are forced to follow what the goverment tells them to do. It is reported that the head church leaders and bishop were in fact threatened by the goverment, that if they didnt follow the law of inclusivity, (and stop all the church scripture nonsense) the goverment would by law, force them to do it, and since then, the church as gone in to deep decline, and in fact is going through a schism, as other world Anglican church organizations, have denounce Canterbury as its lead church and told Welby the archbishop, to repent and have gone as far as calling him a heretic
As a former Episcopalian in the United States, it is also apparent the Episcopal Church USA is in a deep decline. However the Anglican Church in North America ( ACNA) is gaining strength daily and will soon overtake the Episcopal Church in numbers. This will eventually happen in England as well. The extreme material wealth of the CoE & the Episcopal Church is what has allowed the two to continue for so long. When you have large endowments such as Trinity Church Wall Street with billions of dollars and even obscure parishes with millions, a hollow church can continue even without much of a congregation. It is sad to see so many clergy happy with this condition - empty churches with splendid buildings, great music, fat salaries & benefits, generally professing a politically liberal point of view. The new Anglicanism already encompasses a larger group of people racially and socially. It is not limited to the old Upper Class & Upper Middle Class White Anglo-American of the old Episcopal Church.
I’m also a former Episcopalian who tried being a Catholic monk, was invited to become a Greek Orthodox monk, but then eventually became a Buddhist. There is no doubt that the Episcopal Church is in effect a museum church. And as a museum church it is presided over by curatorial over-educated narcissistic douchebags who patronize the few people who bother to show up. These people then disappear unless they have something to prove. The greatest Episcopal priest of the past one hundred years was the English immigrant Alan Watts. Another great man was Tom Harpur of the Anglican Church of Canada who wrote The Pagan Christ. Literal belief in the gospels has become insupportable as even Bishops Pike and Spong both admitted.
Perhaps if the churches preached whats actually in the scriptures , oh wait they cant , that would mean kicking out women preist's not performing same sex marriage , but the Word of God has no place in the church . Diversity , equality are far more important to the church of England than the actual word of the Lord.
@@HatterTobias oh thank you very much. Somebody else told me about that cult. But I guess the Anglican church has a new outreach program and that is what it’s called? someone else made a comment about they need to figure out their branding because that is not a good name for their outreach ministry? So I was trying to figure out where in the heck this is posted at? I went to the church of England but I can’t find it🤷♀️
The outreach program sharing a name with an obscure US cult probably won't cause much scandal in the context of Britain. The average Brit isn't aware it exists/existed.
I'm an atheist who left the Anglican Church of Canada behind me several decades ago. The Anglican churches in my city, along with churches of many other denominations, are closing their doors on a very regular basis. Religiosity among legacy Canadians has been in steady decline for decades, but the robust and lax immigration policies are importing immigrants with a variety of religious beliefs from poor and under educated countries. Some Anglican churches are receiving a new life a Buddhist temples, or houses of worship for other religions, but the majority are being renovated and converted into luxury condominium apartments, retaining their arched and stained glass windows where possible. The immigrant attended Christian churches have popped up everywhere in storefronts and small commercial rental spaces to meet the needs of their tiny congregations.
C.S. Lewis said the people of the Church of England would have to evangelize their clergy for the church to survive. Even in his time the church had lost the true faith.
Exactly the main problem with the CoE is not outreach and other 'reaches'...rather the main problem is loose and watered down theology and not being guided by the holy spirit in all shapes and form
I guess it was easier when they could just declare their religion a state religion. Believe, or else.
Or even create your own church just too get a quicky divorce. But when you sift speculative theologies thru the human mind any world view is possible. No matter how ridiculous it is.
@@thomasridley8675 why do Roman Catholics feel the need to run down other faiths?
@@hesedagape6122
Yes, considering their history it is hilarious.
But, that's how religion works. You are right and everyone else is wrong.
It's a business, selling a basterized religiously focused social structure. And a very convenient path to eternal life for those that can accept it as a fact.
So why not belittle others
Whether it be other faiths or other portions of the population. They believe that they have the moral and spiritual high ground.
A superior mandate from their god that they conveniently created
for themselves. And of course a strong desire too dominate the religious narrative to their political and economic advantage.
The CofE do not preach the Gospel, Simple as.
People don't need a church to be like the world. They need a church to change them to be unlike the world.
Beter to have a church of red necks who are racist, sexist and lgbt hating to the core? The more bigoted the better!??!
Well said.
I am 80 years old and have played the organ in various denominations since the age of 13. I agree with the foregoing but I recall being told in Divinity lessons at school that you will not find God in places of worship, ,church or chapel but you WILL find him in the World. I can vouch for that 100 percent. And the poem that says One is nearer God's Heart in a garden than anywhere else on Earth is absolutely relevant. 😊
This. The Church needs to "overcome the world" again (John 16:33).
Amen!
You cannot save a church with charity work alone. Yes people will come to take advantage of it, yes people will praise its impact in society, but if the gospel is not preached, and if people are not drawn _primarily_ by the gospel, numbers will continue to decline.
The more traditional catholic minded part of the C of E did great things in the poorer parts of London the UK and the world. Many Anglicans have despaired and voted quietly with their feet. The Anglican Ordinariate us growing and unity with the rest of the Western Church given hope. The English know Henry VIII started a process turning the C of E into a puppet of the State and a weak generic. Cut off from the vine it has withered.
@@johnfisher247 I see this argument used by more traditional people from different christian sects but honestly I find that it doesn't fit with what actually happens. People leave churches because it doesn't fit with what they want in life and their worldview.
Modern people want convenience and find some trad religious beliefs to be bigotry.
People leave because it's not liberal enough.
The vatican II actually prevented that the number of catholics felt into a few hundred million instead of more than a billion.
th-cam.com/video/W6jjNjntwtI/w-d-xo.html
The C of E does lots of good charity work and many of it's congregations are very vibrant, but I personally find it very wishy washy, almost a form of Christian 'lite'. I've now decided (in my 50s) to join the Catholic Church. I understand the point people are making about convenience etc, but for me personally I feel my life should fit in with my faith, not the other way around. 🙂
@@asggerpatton7169 I'd rather see those who have no interest in studying the bible and living according to its teachings leave, than to let them stay and corrupt the church with their unbiblical humanist ideas. A small church that takes the bible seriously is preferable to a large, people pleasing church. A church that conforms to society becomes irrelevant and soon dies, because it has no message. A church that stands firm might remain small, but will persevere. The church, after all, is not a human institution, it is the body of Christ and He will insure the perseverance of the saints.
I left the Anglican Church of Canada 30 years ago, to make my Profession of Faith as a Catholic.
I had married a "cradle Catholic", and we alternated Sundays. Over in the late 80's I began seeing worrying changes away from scriptural teaching.
I also found myself looking forward to the weeks we attended Mass. I was getting spiritual nourishment that I wasn't getting at my parish.
On that Easter Vigil I felt I had finally come home.
Easter vigil was my own turning point too, many many years ago.
Bow down to the statue of Mary
@malcolmscrivener8750 whatever Scoob. How is life in the 16th Century?
@@stevenweaver3386Take your boys to the priest .
Or are you the priest ?
@malcolmscrivener8750 nope, not a priest. Just a dad. The priests I have known I am glad I have known. Good and caring men. A credit to their faith.
I left the Episcopal Church 12 years ago for Catholicism. I have NEVER regretted my decision even for a second. I was literally ashamed of my faith whereas now, I’m extremely proud of it. Viva Cristo Rey!!!
Happy to have you brother
AVE CHRISTUM REX
Well said.
Welcome home, brother.
We love you and would still love you if you're not Catholic.
The problem with liberal denominations is that once you capitulate to the society at large there is no reason for folks to come on Sunday. If one is not drawn to worship the Almighty as your focus to go there is no reason to bother.
@@marksandsmith6778 libtards transform church. Church now worthless. Libtards no more go to church. Jews laugh.
Great truthful words, Kevin.
@@marksandsmith6778 The Church of England has abandoned obviously biblical positions such as opposition to homosexuality. People who genuinely believe in the Gospel will not attend a church that accepts homosexuality, and people who don't believe in the Gospel tend not to go to church at all. A church that supports homosexuality caters to nobody and this is why they have nobody attending their church. They will continue to shrink
I'm an evangelical Anglican (Church in Wales) and I worship online. I love it occasionally I worship in person though much less due to covid. I do tithe occasionally.
You might be thinking of the Episcopal Church in the U.S. which is a total woke joke (It's been cencored by the Anglican communion countless times). But the recently formed conservative Anglican church in the U.S. (formed by disgruntled Episcopalians) is doing quite well.
There's a very simple solution to the problem of falling Anglican membership... Preach the Gospel, Teach the Bible, Help the helpless, Love your neighbour and don't allow any non-biblical ideas to be entertained at all. I worship in a very small church that is in obediance to God and the numbers of people coming through the doors is growing thanks to the ministry we receive.
Hello Robert, how are you doing today.
You need the living presence of Jesus in the Eucharist only found in the Catholic Church.
@@margaretcox9252 The Catholic church is declining too. which is not helped by the pope being pro lgbtq now.
The Anglican Church does have the Eucharist. @@margaretcox9252
Liberal churches decline while conservative churches increase. How shocking.
They have grown by taking in members of other churches, not by expanding outside of that. Once those people die it isn’t a winning strategy. It’s like how the last buggywhip manufacturer had a monopoly on buggywhip sales.
@@ggunnelspct I don’t think that’s entirely true. There is a lot of growth in the Orthodox Church of young families.
Not true
If you think the C of E is liberal you're not well informed.
Christianity as a whole is dying. Do you see that as a win? Do you look around at the death of faith and take comfort in the fact that at least you're a Conservative?
I'm Roman Catholic, but I have a lot of love for the Anglican tradition. But that's the problem, people want tradition, and instead of giving them religion, they give them a religious themed community centre. No wonder it's dying. It's forgotten why it exists in the first place
Nope. God is cleaning His planet and Church from heresies and bringing the Ego-Saxon empire to its knees.
It forgot to preach the cross of Jesus
people want jesus, not sinner's traditions
I think its the growth in none believers or Aethism.
@@thetraditionalist All the sacraments in the Catholic Church were instituted by Christ and are in the life of the Latter.
"A new mission initiative called Heaven's Gate"
That is some questionable branding.
"Well the church is dying so why dont we all die with it" lol
What is “Heaven’s Gate”?
@@chefevilee9566 In terms of the Anglican Church, it sounds like something related to outreach, but I didn't look into it. It's also the name of one of the most notorious cults in the US after Jonestown. They all committed suicide thinking they'd be raised up by hyper advanced aliens or something to that effect.
@@Sousabird Oh thank you so much for your answer. I remember that unfortunate cult of people. So sad.
Well it looks like I have a new topic of study!
Maybe it's time to reclaim this phrase for legitimate purposes
Why would God grow a church that ignores his word and has forgotten his mission? Church isn't about maintaining building, its about saving souls.
God(s) don't grow churches, ...people do. People leave the churches when the churches are no longer needed, or relevant to their lives and no longer reflect reality. Hopefully, mankind is moving in the right direction to leave supernatural superstitions behind them.
And Calvin does neither! He is a religious loop. Wake up.
Amen 🙏
"saving souls" necessitates preaching threats that give cause to salvation. People are no longer buying those stories of fear and it is good.
When is breaching hate about saving anything?? 😆😆😆
It’s grim on the ground when you’re a minister. I’m in my 30s, trying passionately to get an aging congregation to become more evangelistic, more committed to practices like Bible study and gathered prayer, but too many are not interested. Too many want to gather for their Sunday social club. Even the ones who have been on the ‘welcome’ training courses I have set up can’t be bothered to welcome newcomers, let alone the normal people in the congregation. We’re one of the biggest churches in the Diocese (the congregation has grown from 80 to over a hundred since 2021) and I was horrified to discover that with 10 children we’re in the highest percentile for under 18s in the Diocese. I feel less like a minister of a church sometimes, and more like a chaplain in a hospice. Too many in the congregation don’t want change, and don’t even want new people. I had someone who had been ill return to the church after six months and noticed that there were about twenty new people there. Because of that, she said ‘it wasn’t her church anymore’ and decided to stop coming to church altogether. There are a few valiant fighters, but they’re getting older and older. As I say, it’s grim.
Thanks for sharing what you've seen. That's not good news, but also not surprising.
Prayers for You! ✝️
Unfortunately the problem is that people need to actually have a relationship with Jesus, with God himself. That is what being a Christian is , it is his holy spirit that empowers us to live for God , to evangelize and come to worship together because of the love of God. It really is sad people do need to wake up and evaluate their spiritual life what is truly important to them what do that actually believe. It's not about a church organization. I will say I help run an online evangelizing group and we too are having alot of trouble among Christians to want to join us to witness to people about the gospel of Jesus and pray with us at any age we have very few numbers.
This may speak more to the fact that people are craving close relationships between a few familiar people as opposed to more people, more newness. With all the uncertainty, constant change, and information overload, people want consistency?
@@TheSwissChalet that could be it as well but we have to also remember as Christians we should take great joy in new souls joining our family and welcoming them loving them as the Lord loves. All believers are family.
Here's my anecdotal experience. All the CoE parishes in and around my neighbourhood in Northeast London are either dying or dead (mostly dead). The biggest Anglican church near me which is attached to a large graveyard is now being converted in to some kind of community centre. Sad because it was a beautiful old historic building.
Anyways, my experience with Catholicism is the complete opposite. In London at least (can't really say for other parts of England). My local Catholic parish seems to have grown since I started attending it. I was shocked to see packed Sunday Masses throughout the Lent and Eastertide seasons. Yesterday was absolutely packed and I had to squeeze in to a pew just to be able to sit down. Also lots of kids and mums with babies in the back. It wasn't this active during last Eastertide. Likewise, my other local Catholic parish is a smaller Church, but thriving. Note: These are just your basic Novus Ordo Catholic parishes - there is no Latin Mass or anything like that.
Also, being a convert to Catholicism, my experience is that there are people out there willing to learn and convert to the faith. Every year, dozens/hundreds of adults get baptised in to the Catholic Church in London alone, especially in the bigger parishes like Westminster Cathedral and the Brompton Oratory. I don't know of any such thing happening in the Church of England except maybe on a very tiny scale.
Our local RC cathedral is packed, but their parish churches generally aren't. A lot of that is Poles. The Italian and Irish families have often fallen away.
@@thursoberwick1948 I hear that. I don't have any Cathedrals near me. Most of them are located in inner London. My local Catholic parishes are on the smaller side, but seem to be doing well. They traditionally had Irish roots but sadly many of the Irish have fallen away (or moved away or died). But now we have quite a few native whites still attending, as well as many Filipinos, Africans, Europeans and Indians. They all come about to imo show a rich display of Catholic faith.
Plus our new priest is a young English lad who loves Arsenal.
@@shabs2134 I was actually pretty shocked to find out our local cathedral doesn't seem to have an Italian mass anymore. I know for a fact we have a lot of Italian families around here, and even today some of those people are native Italian speakers.... although some have been here around a century. The vast majority would be RC. There are certainly a few younger Italian immigrants too, but they seem to have become generic "New Europeans", i.e. Americanised in appearance and alienated from most notions of spirituality.
@@shabs2134 What’s Arsenal?
@@TruePT A popular football (soccer) club in the English Premier League. I was trying to emphasise how many of our Priests and Parishioners are normal locals and how Catholicism is healthy, at least in my area.
The German Protestant Church has around the same problem and we are about to die out. My village for example has about 450 Protestants, around 10 show up to church every week. 10 people. Even on some holidays like on Good Friday we were 12. Those are very VERY bad and sad circumstances and if we don't act immediately our Church will die. Christianity is on the brink of extinction here. It is very sad. Lord, please have mercy on us!
Martín Luther lost the time so much persecution and preaching to do a better christian.😭😭😭☹️😞😔
You will find true faith in the one holy catholic church
Protestant Moment:
Even in the Catholic Church the clergy have ceased to be believers. I first realize this during the ‘60s, I read Hans Kueng and was impressed. Then when I was traveling on the train to Paris with my wife we shared an apartment with an African priest. I mentioned his name and he got very emotional, angry and while he did not much discuss him I realized that he thought of him as a kind of devil. Looking again I realized that Kueng throught of Christianity as a kind of myth, that the Bible was not to be taken as true. I look around today and think of Vatican II as a kind of desperation measure, to prevent what is becoming evident: mass apostasy. The anti-Christ has arrived with science perceived as magic.
Catholicism or orthodoxy can save Christianity from extinction in Germany.
As a teen from the UK I can confidently say the reason why most youth and people in general don't go to church is simply because life is too good in the west.. When life is too good we tend to push God aside and enjoy it.
Seriously, back in my home country 99% of people would go to church every week and wouldn't miss.. It's only here that I have started to become worldly and start going out with friends since I have money. Pray for me.
same I came to the uk and I get mocked for my beliefs.... Not that ppl don't maintain respect for other religions but Christians get the heat... so much for tolerance....
Most young people aren’t interested in faith of any kind in England now. I say that as someone whose attending Bible College next year.
@@albertjose8879 fr
Praying for you, and please pray this for yourself, to have a powerful hunger for righteousness (Matthew 5 and many Psalms) and God’s Word.
See in contrast King Manneseh, eg, 2 Chronicles 33, where he did evil in the side of the Lord, let the people astray, heard the Lord cry out to him, and his people, but ignored the Lord (approximately verses 1 through 10), but then “11Therefore the LORD brought upon them the commanders of the army of the king of Assyria, who captured Manasseh with hooks and bound him with chains of bronze and brought him to Babylon. 12And when he was in distress, he entreated the favor of the LORD his God and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers.”
Read the rest and see an example of repentance from the Living Word, and that of his son and grandson. Especially see the grandson, Josiah and how powerfully he responded to the Scriptures which had been neglected and lost in the temple. Follow his example.
What a tragedy! How dare you go out with friends and enjoy life!?
I am a young person (in my early twenties) who goes to a CofE church regularly. My dad is the vicar there and as long as I can remember I've been the youngest member of the congregation each week. Even as I have gotten older, I am still the youngest member. I love my church and community but I am considering finding a catholic or orthodox church, I want to see what the spiritual experience is like there. Please pray for my church 🙏
I'm a member of the Church of England currently, but feel like I'm barely hanging on. It feels like a secular left wing organisation for over 50s now. There seems to be little respect for the congregations intelligence (was once given some playdough and told to "make something to show what church means" to me. A most condescending activity) and little respect for the authority of scripture ("it was written by mysoginistic, straight men, afterall" gets used as a dismissal of inconvenient scripture passages frequently). Other things:
- Scoffing at the KJV bible as irrelevant
- Complete unfamiliarity with the BCP, which they have thrown out for Common Worship instead
- Insistence on abandonment of hymns in favour of cheesy, stale "Christian rock" with lots of unchristian emotionalism, and arm waving of course.
- Very little acknowledgement of God the Father and God the Son compared to God the Holy Spirit.
- Thinking they can "teach" people to "unlock" the gift of prophesy.
- Open to the idea that Jesus is just one of many optional ways to God, in direct contradiction of Christ's own words.
- An alarmingly growing devotion to secular political issues (racial politics, gender politics and environmentalism) above all else.
In the end, what's the point? I feel such a sense of mourning for what it's become. It's become a political cult/party of sorts, one I and many others simply don't feel part of any more.
We want The Gospel, not The Guardian.
I'll pray for you. Hope you find hope in this mess.
Use your feet. Find another parish. Nowhere is perfect, but there's usually a better fit up the road yonder! I'm Catholic and even we have charismatic and folk masses that I'd aviod!
@@BungleZippie I have decided to use the new year to find a new parish. Perhaps a new church altogether. Thanks for your advice man
It sounds like you'd be much happier in the one true Holy Catholic Church, and unlike the Anglican Church which was founded by a greedy King who declared himself the de facto Pope in England to give himself a Divorce and loot Monasteries, the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ
I think you summed up nicely what I have found. I’m in the US and the same is true. Very little sacred left. There are some sincere and rockin’ evangelical services, which I appreciate. I prefer a liturgical approach so I’m more inclined to Trad Cath, which the Vatican is trying to stamp out or Orthodox.
CofE will be a case study in the devastating effects of capitulating to society and abandoning the Gospel for decades to come.
Soon they will start marrying same-sex couples.
abandoning the gospel? And where is your G_D? ... Forgotten. Most men read and read the books of Law and gospels and still have not see the Truth as all their time spending on reading they did not realized they were following men, religion and churches, not G_D... And not even learning the teachings that will take men to the Truth, the Lord teachings... not stories and opinions of men
@@itis4peace I'm trying to discern what you're saying. I am a Christan, like those in the CofE so we believe in the same God. What is the truth then? Help me to understand you
@@huwfulcher Once, I was in despair... crying to Him and beging Him to come again for people to know Him as He Is. The Truth is not in any book, not even in the Scriptures as writings are of men as of this world... for men to judge...for men to live...for men to eat...for men to believe... The Truth must be find in your heart... and as a puzzle all start to enlighten your soul and then...He Is. All people look for G_D but they do not know how to find Him. I came to show you the Light as He Is the Light the Way Him Himself... The Light, The Way, The One True Bread from Heaven. Few are those to listen and hear. He wants you to know Him as He Is Truly through Him not through men nor through the lost in letters and law made of and for men... to isolate, separate in faith, judge one another, punish and kill ... all in the name of their own god, creed, faith or religion, faith, churches, temples. One can go to a Temple, a church, chapel, tree, river and mountains but without G_D He will not listen, He will not be there. There are mysteries one cannot see nor understand as should be this way but men uses the unknown to catch souls praising the dead as saints keeping their dead bodies as holly reliques, crucifying your Lord and keep Him dead to invoke to call death, death as a holly mystery to praise and pray to. Your Lord, your G_D Is not there. Men uses men image to call for G_D in every sense when the True Way is not through men. Hear... is as blind guiding blind in circles
@@huwfulcher I am trying to help you to get understanding and hear and see your G_D as He Is. He Is the One you will get understanding from.
Nothing surprising at all. As an Anglican, I can say that the CoE is pretty much irrelevant these days. Their glorious past is long gone, and they had a great past for sure. Sadly the CoE feel prey to the revisionists, allowing the church to deviate from sound Biblical doctrine and teaching. The CoE thought it best to ramp up numbers by becoming more of a PC entertainment group, just like The Episcopal Church, rather than a Church which preaches the Gospel to the ends of the earth. A political action committee they have become.
Go to a fundamentalist, non Calvinist Baptist Church, or, if you can find one, a non Arminian, non "lose you salvation , fundamentalist Pentecostal church .
The glorious past never existed. The Church of England was born of adultery and greed. She grew up to be a prostitute and a mother of prostitutes. It was she who introduced to Creed-professing Christians the Gnostic doctrine that it is lawful to subvert marital relations to prevent the conception of offspring. No heresy has ever polluted the Church to the degree of this one.
The COE is in the minority in terms of the Anglican communion though. The GAFCON churches and Anglican churches in Africa and the global south are still bible based and HAVE NOT conceded to the excesses of the western Anglican church. Around 85% of the Anglican churches worldwide are still preaching and practising the correct version of Anglicanism. They need to replace Welby with someone representative of the whole tradition, not just the COE.
I'm amazed by active membership in the church of England, in South Africa a church service at Anglican is over 200 people in most churches. It's huge
It is like that anywhere in Africa or Asia. Amen! The Europeans and white North Americans are ditching their Christian roots in the name of "political correctness" and based on the anti-Christian media hysteria, which is prevalent in the liberal and left-wing West.
Not surprised. Countries with big problems have big flocks. Poland in the 80s comes to mind.
Especially in our black community
The African clergy ironically are much more sound, despite their own problems, they are currently in a rift with the CofE over openly gay and transsexual priests and the blessing of those sorts of people.
Interesting report. It seems the pattern is consistent...the more liberal a church, the more it is declining. It would be interesting to see Episcopal Church of America contrasted with the more conservative Anglican Church of North America, not in terms of theology, but more in terms of growth and demographics.
When many bishops deny the essential doctrines of the biblical Christian faith why is it surprising that many people follow them? If this is the case why should they attend church services? Man made programming will achieve nothing
In the western world all church attendance is reducing. The liberal churches are showing it the most as more "devoted" members move to more fundamentalist sects. This is actually bad for all churches as the fundamentalist churches ultimately convert their members( particularly those born in the church) to atheism .
@@johnrowland9570 The bishops of The Episcopal Church will accept anything and everything in the church with one notable exception--doctrinal orthodoxy and traditional liturgical worship and forms.
@Keith Wesley Cahill Francis is extremely liberal
The LCMS Lutheran church in America (most conservative non-Calvinist protestant church in the US) has a weekly attendance rate of 48.1%. Much higher than the Church of England to say the least.
This must be why I keep seeing stories every month or so about Anglican bishops and priests converting to Catholicism. They're fleeing a sinking ship.
The Anglican clergy who 'swim the Tiber' have an advantage: if they're married, they may remain so. Catholic laymen who want to be ordained must be celibate and yes, they don't like the situation. Catholicism is losing members too, but it still is short of priests, so Protestant clergy who switch brands have an opportunity in Catholicism (if they can stand it).
@@Vurbanowicz Its all about branding and money.I was reared Catholic but became atheist, religion is rubbish.
That’s kinda what happens when you realize you’re basically already Catholic and only have your own denomination because Henry the 8th wanted a divorce lol
I’m one of the two kids in a CofE congregation of around 20 people. Without other kids going with me, I can’t lie, makes it difficult to not leave for a bigger church
Respect. Keep going in your faith, even if it means going elsewhere 👍
@@MrWoaaaaah thanks. Our church had a benefice (A group of parishes served by one incumbent (member of clergy)) yesterday and only 4 additional people showed up.
To make matters worse, the other kid that goes to my church is my brother. The good thing is that we have a great ministry that leads us.
@@MrWoaaaaah
Haha few kids brainwashed by desperate priests doesn't change the fact that nearly all English people hate Christianity
Religion is about courage, not business.
I ring the bells at my local 1000 year old church. We've been very successful in generating new ringers in what is also a declining activity. However, we are getting to the stage where we have more ringers than regular attendees at the services. The elderly stalwarts do great work in keeping the church going but the diocese seems to be the problem. They are massively into identity politics and promote D I E events which are of zero interest to the parishioners, all of whom came to terms with the non hetero sexual members of our community years ago. Similarly, the good and gentle Christians who attend services are not much interested in historic slavery guilt.
It's not rocket science. Give people some solid scripture, time for collective contemplation and people who lead by example and the C of E can thrive.
No living presence of Jesus in the Eucharist , no Church.
Over the past 50+ years, the Church of England, along with other denominations, have become more modernist and have adopted more and more ways of the world. It's become a weak leader and no longer stands up for its teachings. No one really wants to follow a weak leader and they slowly quit. When the shepherds are doing their job, the sheep won't wander and as we have seen in many other denominations, the shepherds have not been doing their job. As a Catholic, I can see this in my own church too.
I observed this in London: I attended services at Westmister Abbey, which is absolutely huge, and I would say there were no more than 100 people in attendence.
The churhes that are growing is the ones that have enthusiasm for the Lord are growing, those who attempt to adopt culture are dying
Chris, totally agree. We Christians are called to impact culture, not letting culture impact the "church", i.e., the body of Christ.
@@fredinaz799 some of those Anglicans are on fire for jesus. The best sermon I ever heard was from an Anglican bishop back around 1990. The sermon at Westminster Abby was pretty good as well and it was given by archbishop Desmond Tutu.
@@chrisschene8301 I grew up in the Episcopal Church in America and transitioned to The Anglican Mission in America many years ago. We were involved in Alpha and recall Nicky Gumbel at HTB. The sermon by Bishop Tutu would very interesting to listen to.
what keeps me on track are all the personal
testimonies of hell online
@@fredinaz799 I was inoculated against christianity
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
However, even though the whole thing is symbolic magic, what it represents is still the body and blood of Jesus. If one eats, symbolically or otherwise, this body and blood of a man, it follows logically that ritual cannibalism is practiced. A simple syllogism will illustrate this:
P1: Jesus commanded his followers to eat his body and blood.
P2: You symbolically eat the body and blood.
C: You are practicing ritual cannibalism.
Remember the Church started with only twelve Apostles and a band of disciples, it can always repeat this feat if it stays on the straight and narrow, with the power of the Holy Spirit.
This is 100% correct! There is a clearinghouse happening in the Anglican churches. A new crew they are coming you better believe that to be true!
It is time to accept the fact that the origin of Anglicanism was sexual deviance and murder and so it should be of no surprise the Anglican Church has been plagued by error in regards to sexuality for some time now. Those who see it for what it is have left.
amen
There is NOTHING Apostolic in authority or succession in the Anglican or CoE. NONE. WHAT. SO. EVER. Move on, Boomer
You surly do not really believe the mythology.
In 1988, I had the exciting privilege of visiting the home of my paternal ancestors - St. Peter Port, Guernsey, Channel Islands. I was able to attend Sunday morning worship at the main Anglican city church on the name-day of Saint Peter. The biggest shock to me was that there were only about twenty people there, and half of us were tourists! Later in the week, I visited a prayer meeting at a church of a different denomination and discovered warm spiritual life there.
I left the Church of England over 20 years ago after a visit to Moscow and the Church of Christ the Saviour. The Sunday service was utterly spectacular. The church was full to the brim, many people were outside listening to the service on loudspeakers. The showing of the true Biblical Christianity was there for all to see. I was given an audience with the then Patriarch Alexi, who though an interpreter, told me that the Orthodox faith is a a sound biblical one that does not bow to things of the modern age. It is Gods Word and must be obeyed. I thoroughly agreed with his words and 3 months later I was baptised into the Orthodox Church. I have never been happier. The churches are full to capacity ever week. The Services are all biblically sound, and yes, uncompromising. The C of E has totally lost its way due to its total lack of biblical teaching and 21st Century philosophy particularly in regard to ethics. It is high time it woke up and returned to Biblical practices and not trying to win popularity prizes with a vocal, morally lost minority.
Orthodox Church had sanctified Putin’s war….so eager to see the face of “God” these clerics can’t wait for Armageddon.
Ortodox Church is not independent. It is undercontrol of the Government. The ortodox church can not speak the thruth of the bible.
@@siharpetrussimbolons.th.9470 The Orthodox church speaks from the Word of God. Those members of the priesthood who bow to politicians will answer to a much higher authority which the stand before our Blessed Saviour for judgement. They may hear these words to their eternal shame "you have denied me therefore I deny you. I cast you down"
There are several different orthodox churches. Russian orthodox is just one. They do not all get along with each other.
@@Rose-jz6ix That is very true. I agree wholeheartedly that the Russian Orthodox church is heavily influenced by Putin and his odious regime. Opposition is often met with violence and prison which harkens back to the days of the USSR. Extremely sad to be sure.
The Church of Nice, everything is great and no one is ever challenged on anything is bland and boring. This is happening to Roman Catholics too. Traditional religious orders and parishes (such as TLM parishes or Ordinary one’s blessed to have a really good priest) are growing and thriving. The ones that try to blend into the culture are falling by the way side. Why go to church if you want to be part of the culture?
Because you said "Church of Nice," I don't care if you like Michael Voris. Don't send that place any money.
When it comes to churches being normal and progressive just isn’t good for business it’s why the Amish do good
Well, even when it comes to RC, the decline is happening only in certain parts of the Western World, in other parts, especially in Africa and Asia(where I was born), it's thriving.
I, myself, am not a RC, I'm Syro Malabar Catholic
If they would throw the hersey of Vatican II out the window and reinstate the true Latin mass in all churches. And if the Pope and the Vatican would become Catholic again, that would just be the icing on the cake.
@T.W. In Asia and Africa where there is close to zero TLM parishes, the rate of growth of Catholicsm is the highest amongst the world. So rad trads please stop complaining in a non Catholic channel.
How sad. They should do everything they can to minister to young families. If your church isn’t crying, it’s dying.
The CofE was great at being a creche for lazy parents, not so great at being a youth club for older kids.
@@thursoberwick1948 you sound childless
@@KK-li1lw You've missed my point. A lot of parents used to drop off their children at church when I was little, and send them to Sunday school. The parents wouldn't generally attend the church themselves regularly.... they saw it as free childcare. I can't entirely blame them for that, but it meant that you ended up with children who didn't have much of a Christian homelife outside of Sunday school.
It was good in a way since the children made friends, often had fun and learnt about Christianity, but there were other issues which leads on to the second point -
When you hit adolescence though, very little was done to smooth the transition between childhood Sunday School and adulthood, and I think that's where they lost a lot of people. Some churches did have Scouts, Boys Brigade, or even youth clubs, but a lot didn't. I went from a very fun Sundsy school environment to a very dull adult service overnight. This probably alienated a lot of people. I know a lot of middle aged people who attended church as children but have no interest in it as adults, because little was done to maintain their interest o4 connections.
The Church of England that I attend is almost always barely a quarter full, although the congregation is larger. Most of them stay away because they're tired of listening to Woke politics instead of the teachings of Christ. Were another incumbent to take over, and run a religious church rather than a political church, they would without doubt turn up to the services again.
I doubt it.
Yes, they will turn up again
As an Orthodox Christian, it's heartwarming to see Orthodoxy grow so vibrantly in England, we welcome you with open arms!
It isn't converts though. The issue at hand is that these demographic questions don't ask it you've converted it not. Bulgarians and other orthodox Christians who move to the UK (almost always London) are the ones who go to orthodox churches. I recall a similar study concerning Roman Catholics in Ireland basically found that of those who stop going to church 90% or more just become some form of None.
@@Gallalad1 do you have a source for that? I'm not trying to refute (in fact, it certainly is a realistic proposition, considering most of the Orthodox population are born Orthodox) I'm simply interested in the exact data :p
Im a Evangelical Protestant in the US turned Eastern Orthodox Christian (im 21) and my parish of some 130-140 people has about 60 people on average show up every Sunday usually. Half of us are converts, often Millenials with children and young Gen Z men like me
Eastern Orthodoxy is growing 💪💪☦️
Convert here from atheism… our wonderful church is full every Sunday!
Also Orthodox converted from atheism. Last couple of years have shown a steady and significant increase in catechumens
If, as was happening in the Catholic Church where I was employed, another reason for fewer funerals was that children who had already stopped attending chose not to give their parents church funerals. Instead they frequently opted for a quick funeral home service or graveside prayer.
Heartbreaking
The churches across denominations across the UK are in rapid decline. Immigration has kept the church alive, as the church in London is mostly made up of immigrants. The growth of Orthodox and Pentecostal churches is evidence of this.
not our coptic church its growing all the time
@@traderden6907 same with my Orthodox Parish. The core membership (The Church Council) are either English or Afro-Caribbean
Yes, he mentioned comparisons to the Orthodox, Pentecostal, and even Methodist churches. I feel as if there's one left out that should have been included...
The CofE is not a UK-wide church, it's an English church.
@@thursoberwick1948 I think we all understand that
I was an Anglican priest for 20 years, a Cathedral Dean twice in Canada, before retiring, having in my lifetime having been Russian Orthodox, Methodist, Lutheran, Roman Catholic in the end.
One should be ironic about ecclesiological issues generally.
The thing is with the UK, Churches associated with being CoE, that happen to be conservative-evangelical (not charismatic) have much higher (and signficantly) attendance and are strongly linked (communally). They're very biblically sounds, the ones that have gone more progressive, have lower attendance.
now if only those scripturally sound churches would just wear some simple vestments and use the book of common prayer more :( overally they're showing the way of the Spirit for those who'll listen though
RIP Melvin Tinker :(
I have observed this also
In a pamphlet entitled The Strength of the Mormon Position, the late Elder Orson F. Whitney, of the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, related the following incident under the heading "A Catholic Utterance":
Many years ago a learned man, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. I became well-acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue's end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy. One day he said to me: "You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don't even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that's all there is to it. The Orthodox and Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism's attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days." 1
THE APOSTLES FAILED IN THEIR MISSION. THEY NEGLECTED TO PROPERLY APPOINT THEIR SUCCESSORS. WHEN PETER DIED, THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM WERE LOST FROM THE EARTH. THE CHURCH GIVEN TO THEM BY JESUS LAY IN RUINS, OVERCOME BY THE FORCES OF HELL. THE SO-CALLED CHRISTIAN CHURCH WAS NO LONGER THE LORD'S CHURCH. A NEW ORGANIZATION, A "GREAT AND ABOMINABLE CHURCH," CAME INTO EXISTENCE. THIS WICKED CHURCH FOUNDED BY THE DEVIL BECAME KNOWN AS THE "CATHOLIC CHURCH." IN HER CORRUPTION, SHE TOOK AWAY MANY PLAIN AND PRECIOUS PARTS OF THE GOSPEL FROM THE BIBLE, RENDERING IT USELESS FOR CONVEYING THE FULL GOSPEL PLAN. IT REMAINED AN APOSTATE CHURCH DESPITE THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM ONCE AGAIN RESTORED TO THE EARTH THROUGH THE PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claims to be a restoration of the original Church of Jesus Christ. In the 1820's a young man named Joseph Smith, Jr. received a series of heavenly visitations in which he was told that all the sects of Christendom had fallen away from the truth, and none of them still retained the authority of God. He and an associate, Oliver Cowdery, were ordained to the Holy Priesthood and the Apostleship by heavenly messengers in 1829, and they organized the Church of Jesus Christ on April 6, 1830. Prophets and Apostles, as well as the Apostolic authority, have continued in the LDS Church from that time. For more information about the teachings and practices of the LDS Church, see the official LDS website.
@@ГришаФэша except if it's a restoration it's a really bad one, like early Christianity wasn't even the Catholic Church, that surged on later, and early Christianity would be unrecognizable to Mormons, they probably wouldn't have had the belief in the trinity nor would have any structure similar to the Mormon Church
Invented by a King, felled by politics
Anglicanism as we know it did not begin until after Henry's death. Other than separating from England he made no actual reform. That came after his death.
The Bible did warn us about false teachers
It needs to be said that mainstream churches in Europe are all in really bad shape, not just the Church of England.
Entryism.
Yes, this is unfortunately true. When I lived in Belgium, I had to travel 40 minutes just to get to a somewhat solid Presbyterian church. And that church had only about thirty active members. And yet Christians in America (where I live currently) are convinced that ALL missionary resources need to go to Africa or South America. The third world is in desperate need of the gospel, absolutely. And I will never speak ill on My American brothers and sisters that give their time, talents, and money to mission work in the developing world; this is unarguably good and Biblical outreach.
BUT the “post-Christian” Western European nations are struggling and dying, and it pains me to see Americans turn a blind eye.
@@mcgheebentle1958 Europeans turned a blind eye to Europe. The only people who have done widespread and obvious missions to Europe are the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. Maybe the Salvation Army a distant third.
@@mcgheebentle1958 do really expect that American missionaries in Europe would have much success convincing people who have a chosen not to attend church, to attend church?
@@eoghan.5003 I do actually. I mean this is happening right now as we speak. I know my comment was a little bleak, but there are hundreds of missionaries in Europe that are having great success.
You just have to have missionaries that are well acquainted with the culture of post-Christian Europe. Western Europe is a type of apathetic secular, with the vast majority of people viewing religion as “outdated” or irrelevant to their lives. Some of the older generations are still holding onto the “science disproves religion”, while the younger generation is more open to nonChristian “spiritualism.” Europeans have a different view of work and government than Americans. We just need missionaries that understand these distinctives and are able to show Europeans a different way (mind you, I’m not talking about showing them the American way, I’m talking about showing them the Christian way.)
So yes, I’m cautiously hopeful. There are a lot of places in Europe where small Christian revivals are taking place right now as we speak!
I left the Episcopal Church in 1998, after discovering Holy Orthodoxy, and have never ceased thanking God for leading me to His Church. Uncompromising, unchanging, timeless faithfulness to Scripture and the Fathers, compared to apostasy...my only regret is the wonderful people who remain in a Tradition defying body that cannot honestly be called a Christian communion.
Since the reigning monarch is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England, one thing to keep an eye on will be what happens when Queen Elizabeth II dies and Charles takes the throne.
The Queen is very devout in her Christian faith (note how openly and passionately she talks about it during every Christmas Message). Charles on the other hand is less devout, is married to a divorcée, and has said he prefers the title “Defender of Faith” instead of “Defender of *the* Faith”, indicating a desire to change the spirit of the role.
If the titular head of faith is not committed to the health of a devout Anglican Church, I think that is another reason for decline.
Great point!
That and all the kiddy fiddling
Why do so many people rag on Prince Charles all the time and wish he would disappear? He's not perfect, but who else is? He's less creepy than Andrew, who is supposed to be the Queen's favorite. Charles may very well surprise you all if he ever gets a chance to be king. The times ARE a-changing, and we all have to adapt or die. It's the way of Nature, whether we like it or not. As for the Defender of the Faith, consider that that title was bestowed first upon Henry VIII, of all people, hardly a paragon of virtue by any means.
Charles, sadly, is an open perennialist, he has no faith in Christ as the only true way, merely as a way to reach at some nebulous "perennial truth" at which all religions are also reaching at.
She is her own counterpart in the Church of Scotland
"A theology which denies the historicity of nearly everything in the Gospels to which Christian life and affections and thought have been fastened for nearly two millennia […] can produce only one or other of two effects. It will make him a Roman Catholic or an atheist.” -C.S. Lewis, while discussing the Church of England considering female priests
I visited the local Anglican Church when I was trying to find a parish to join, I think I was the youngest person there by at least 40 years.
I don't know what's happening in England. but here in the Philippines Anglican Church is growing in numbers. I am active church member and i can see that Children are becoming active too because the Church are engaging Children with very interesting and inspiring activities and Masses. especially here in the Cordillera Region, Anglican Churches are growing strong.😊😊💪💪
All religious denominations are in the rise in the Philippines., especially the JWs. People are desperate for hope.
Churches that take in dissatisfied people who leave other churches grow everywhere. Catholic countries see competition from non-Catholic churches. Protestant countries see growth in Catholic Churches. Although migration and charity/community help has a hand too.
Even in an extreme Catholic country like the Philippines, less and less Catholics attend mass and people dissatisfied with Catholicism leave to another church. It’s one big “grass is greener on the other side”. Probably because a big stablished church just stops trying as hard to get new members and can just work on holding on to the current members. Can’t beat mega churches, those people’s whole job is to do religion on overdrive.
What are your thoughts about the Iglesia Filipina Independiente? I hope to move to the Philippines from the US when I retire.
@@danielobrien189 They are making good ways in their own too. I've seen many Churches of them here in the Philippines
@@danielobrien189The IFI belongs to the Lambeth Conference and so it’s allied with the Church of England, Episcopalian Church in the US, etc. The IFI remains a strong and vigorous church in the Philippines: the chief justice of the Supreme Court is an Aglipayan (as IFI members are known in PH). There are already IFI churches in the US because of Filipino immigrants there-another sign of growth. (All of this coming from a Filipino Roman Catholic, so I suppose my situationer of IFI is objective.)
I'm grateful for the Ordinates for Anglicans in the Catholic Church. I'm hoping that they will keep the flame of Anglican culture and faith burning, even as the main Anglican Church declines.
Hello James, how are you doing today.
that's the case in the US and Canada. The Ordinnate is growing, offering a traditional Mass in English, often a pontifical style Mass. All without the sourness and arrogance and right wing politics of trad Catholic groups.
As a Catholic I’m not exactly upset about this. A lot of the Anglican clergy even became Catholic.
The clergy do, but most of the general membership doesn't. An Anglican layman is more likely to marry a Catholic and the kids become Catholic down that route. I've seen that far more often.
Roman Catholics are also as guilty as the other churches of not doing much in the way of missionary work within the UK.
your church is in decline too, don't forget it. and rightly so, for it has abused people for 2000 years and continues to do so.
The Catholic and Anglican churches are very similar anyways due to the Anglican church being created for political reasons.
@@marcokite Some of them maybe. I've been to our local Tridentine Latin mass here (I'm not RC btw) but the congregation was not that young. Average age late fifties, early sixties, with some much older. Didn't see anyone under thirty there. Attendance was fairly respectable- only the RC cathedral gets large numbers round here.
I think the Catholic church should let priests get married. It would solve lots of problems within the church since peoole aren't meant to live alone.
I'm Episcopalian, happy and proud to be Episcopalian, but am extremely worried about the future of the Anglican Communion. There are a few active young adults in our church, but it is very clear that there are a lot more old people than young people, and there are very, VERY few kids who are active in our church. Even fewer young priests. In rural areas, Episcopal churches are already unstaffed. It's really chilling. Definitely more severe than in the Roman Church.
I agree that Anglicanism should become more "full-fat" in terms of theology in order to survive. We need a more robust teaching on the eucharist, heaven and hell, the power of prayer, and chastity.
Of course, as Benedict XVI said, the church will be smaller, but more faithful, and that's ok.
There is a small but steadily growing traditional Anglican communion here in the USA. We grew out of the lunacy and epidemic of heresy that infected (and still ravages!) the Episcopalian church in the USA in the 1970s. Seek out a traditional Anglo-Catholic church in your area and attend . . . if you can squeeze into our busy nave on most Sundays.
@@Borzoi86 that’s great, but it sounds like you’re referring to the continuing Anglican movement, which is outside of the Anglican communion. I’d be pleased to visit them, but I’d have the same hesitation about joining them that a Roman would have about joining an SSPX community.
I’m very bullish on third world/global south Anglicans, it seems like they’ll be the anchor of our communion for the next century or so
@@TheBrofessor Thanks for your reply. You are technically correct that we are "outside the Anglican communion" since Canterbury does not recognize us. But our bishops decided that Canterbury is fatally afflicted so why not "return to the faith once delivered to the saints." (A recovering Presbyterian here but a flourishing traditional Anglican now for nine years. Soli Deo Gloria!)
@@Borzoi86 I guess time will tell. God bless you my brother/sister!
I go to a church plant from one of the very few thriving CoE congregations. We have the exact opposite problem. So many people attend, especially young people, that we run out of chairs some Sundays. The message from the pulpit is the simple gospel and the worship is always impactful. When I ask newcomers why they started going, it is always because they were recommended us by a friend.
I’m English, yet the COE has fallen so far in my lifetime it’s unreal. It’s an embarrassment.
People now have knowledge at their finger tips,no longer forced to blindly believe unquestioned preachers. 🎉.
Anglicans who are actually fussed about religion would generally be happier in another faith .
High Church to Roman Catholic
Low Church to Evangelical
When church preaches the same Netflix and Hollywood does, this happens.
There's one argument that's being missed here, and that's that the reason so many people leave the church might not be that churches adapt to new social norms, but that they haven't adapted quickly enough to stay relevant for too many people.
Problems may include:
- Accepting edicts from an undemocratically chosen authority
- an increasingly scientifically literate population being asked to accept a host of supernatural claims
- clergy not being aware of other approaches to answering people's spiritual needs
- an inadequate answer to the increasingly widespread problem of loneliness
Heaven’s Gate is a REALLY bad name to use.
Is Heaven's Gate even a thing in the UK?
@@intergalactichumanempire9759 Yes, we've heard of it.
It is like using the term People's Temple.
Back in the summer of 1971 I visited England. While there I attended a Sunday service near the hotel where I was staying. At St. James Paddington on Sunday morning there was a congregation of just ten which included me a Jew. This fit in what I had been reading. On the previous Saturday I attended services at Bevis Marks, the oldest synagogue in England where there was a nice gongregation. Later on this trip I was fortunate to attend a Sunday evensong at Canterbury Cathedral where a boys choir was assisting in the service. It was just beautiful.
So, you were the Minyan man for the church?
😀
Ezeoma Tamunotonyesia Dr. From Nigeria. Solution go back to the Bible, Matthew6:33 seek the kingdom of God & His righteousness all other things will be added you. Lord Jesus Christ is alive and active in the universe. He is working out HIS purposes out all over the Earth. World wide revival is going on now. Those living a righteous & holy life relying on Holy spirit (St. John 15:5) will be taken away soon at the Rapture. Then man of sin 666 will rule the earth for 7yrs. Etc etc.
Anglicanism was always a rather lukewarm faith. Its a faith you generally inherent it, you certainly do not convert into it, as it lacks evangelicalism. I know almost no religious Anglicans, they don't really know scripture. I always felt that it was Roman Catholicism light version.
It was always quite liberal, and always went with the times, but I think they have gone too far now with their woke rhetoric.
exactly that is the reason why CoE is now in its pathetic state...it has watered down theology blended in with the liberal atheist culture at large along with compromising the gospel of christ
Danke für Eure Treue zum Glauben. Wenn manchmal auch Zweifel nagen, so ist doch immer wieder der Glaube an den Gütigen und Allmächtigen unverrückbar. Am 112. Tage des Überfalls von Kyrills Russland auf die Ukraine fragen wir uns demütig,
ob die bisherigen 177.695.444.321 Gebete denn nichts bewirken, jedoch wissen wir, dass wir uns bescheiden müssen.
Danke, lieber Gott der Liebe,Gott Sohn Jesus: Der Du immer in Deiner Allmacht zuschaust und mitleidest,
in Auschwitz, in Butscha, in Stalingrad, im Großen Tsunami, beim verheerenden Hurrikan.
Danke, dass Du zuschaust und mitleidest, denn als ALLLLLLMÄCHTIGER Gott hast Du es doch gar nicht nötig,
mit dem kleinen Menschlein mitzuleiden. So danke ich Dir, Du allmächtiger Zuschauer und Mitleider mit einem dreifachen kräftigen
Amen,amen,Amen. Wer müsste Dich in Deiner liebenden, zuschauenden und mitleidenen Allmacht nicht lieben, lieber Gott der Liebe.
The fall of the church of England and the rise and rise of the mosque of ENGLAND.
Believe it or not, Christianity will disappear from the west for good. Goodbye Christianity and good riddance.
Not everywhere
What a lot of people do not know about the Anglican church, is that it is responsible, (through creation of the King James version of the bible in the early 1600's) for bringing literacy to the masses, not just in England but throughout the world.
As someone who grew up in the Episcopal Church USA, and left in 1980 after they weighed anchor and set sail to secular winds, I am not surprised by this information.
I'm in my 30s/English and have never been to church outside of Christenings, marriages and funerals. Never read a Bible...etc. It's pretty standard these days, I've never known anyone that attends Church outside of those three events. I've found myself becoming more interested in religion over the past several years and looked into some local churches during lockdown. Some put their Sunday Services online but checking them out actually put me off. They had no life or energy to them, no one under 50... it was pretty grim.
A major change is needed if they want to reverse that.
They can't reverse it, only the Sovereign God of the Universe can control the destiny of His church. It is exactly where His sovereign purpose has decreed.
It sounds like you've only been looking at Christianity. In which case why? Are you actually seeking a theology that best makes you understand and worship God or are you just wanting something to make you fluffy and nice?
You should approach things from a blank slate and look at the merits of each given faith. Christianity in it's orthodox incarnation is fails in every measure. It doesn't own any characteristics about itself. Not it's name, not the name of its founder and you'd be hard pressed to find any practice that is prescribed by the bible. Even with the bible the only God given scripture is the old testament. Not even the supreme figure of the Christian faith was given a scripture according to yourself. The scripture associated with him is the new testament. Which is more of a biography.
Although I understand your reservations but look at Islam. It is the complete faith that is logical from every angle.
@@Michael_Chandler_Keaton What if God’s will is for them to reverse it?
Be that change. You could be used to be part of face of the change. By your interest you could spark other people’s interest.
@duouk2000 Hello there,
I am a Christian living in England and I can attest that you are right about church attendance. It is unfortunate that you could not find a church that is has any life. It is really encouraging to hear that you are becoming more interested about Religion.
If you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins, was buried and rose again, then you can be saved and go to heaven. I hope you think about this, and it sad that this truth is not being preached in every church over the UK. I would you encourage you to continue to seek for the Lord and if possible find a Church(assembly) not forsake the assembling of ourselves; (take a look at Hebrews 10:25 KJV in the New Testament, towards the back of your Bible.) I understand it can be hard finding a living church these days but God promises they will always exist in every age.(Matthew 16:18).
I am able attend a Baptist church nearby with lots of willing believers and a range of ages.
I hope you continue to seek God, but remember the Bible says it is a gift He gives us, not something we earn from Him.
I hope this is helpful,
Louis
It’s a painful thing to see. I’m relatively new to my faith but connected with my Anglo-Catholic church in my city. It took me a very long time to find somewhere that felt as if it fit for my faith, as every other church I visited and spoke to were on the extreme Protestant or more “new age church” style of worship, which did nothing for me. The beautiful 14th century church in my hometown was a miserable affair, the services being small in attendance with little to no community spirit, we sang along to new Christian-pop songs instead of actual hymns, and the vicar certainly didn’t seem as if she was bothered too much about the quality of service being provided.
Now there is nothing wrong with this type of practise, but to a newcomer to the C of E like myself, I found the lukewarm approach to spirituality disheartening and cynical, so the draw of the more catholic inspired wing of the C of E was intense for me, and was something that I felt more attuned to in terms of actual devotion and practise. I am not alone in this either, every member of every medieval parish church I have spoken to have expressed their desire to reconnect with the high church side and more catholic side of things, with a few even making the moves towards conversion to Roman Catholicism - a move I may one day consider myself. Yet the people in charge of the C of E seem to have the idea that they need to make the church more and more progressive and pander more and more to the new age spiritualists, which is fine, but is against what the traditional and even newer members of the congregation seem to be asking for (in my experience).
As for the British public, this is a different issue entirely when it comes to drawing in new followers and getting into the good books of the public. Unfortunately, years of secularism and refusal to help the church through fear of offending some has effectively killed off any basic knowledge of the church in the view of the everyday Brit. The general public seems to be in this unshakeable state of malaise and hatred of anything and everything that isn’t on their TV screens or benefits them in terms of intoxication or greed. My parent’s generation (40-50 year olds) seem to be very anti-Christian, cynical, and unwilling to venture outside of their door to try new things that they can’t eat, drink, or use to flaunt on social media to flaunt their disposable income. This is a generalised view, of course, and these people are generally still lovely, but it’s obvious that there is a serious lack of faith and positivity in the lives of the British public right now and it is showing in terms of church attendance and attitudes towards the C of E.
I don’t know if the C of E as an institution can be saved, and perhaps if it can’t be, then it is for the best. The Anglo-Catholics can gravitate towards the RCC, and the low church Anglicans can gravitate towards the more prominent Protestant groups.
Either way, I just hope and pray that the ancient churches are not innocent victims in this and can carry on in a religious manner.
For a church to be "ancient" it has to be at least 1000 yrs old. The oldest Protestant "church" is C of E which is only 500 yrs old. The Catholic Church is 2000 yrs old.
@@Anon.5216 Reformed from Medieval errors.
I resonate with this very strongly. I'm an Anglican and was briefly in ordination training but for personal reasons I could not continue. However some of the things on training were shocking. Critical Race Theory featured in the core reading for ordinands. Anything remotely connected to the dreaded 'T word' (tradition) was scoffed at mercilessly. You have to be on board with arm waving modern cheesy Rock worship music or you're not considered to be spiritual. One Ordinand was even wearing a Hindu bindi dot on her former everyday and was not remotely challenged or questioned about her unbiblical views on her "third eye" or her "chakras". Indeed, the main thrust of the meetings was around 'racial justice' and 'going carbon neutral by 2030'. It is not q church any more, its more of a middle class left wing charity with a lukewarm spiritual veneer. I would suggest looking to RCC or Orthodox, or perhaps a more Conservative protestant denomination. I am still lost spiritually, and don't know where I'll end up, so I have no bias to a church. All I know is that the CofE did more to hurt my faith than strengthen it.
@@BlueOstinato you’ve put it perfectly. I pray that you find a path to follow on your spiritual journey. The final straw for me has been coming home from university to find my local parish church (CoE) has become even more modernised and resembles something that to me has no element of English Anglican Christianity anymore. Unsurprisingly the attendance has fallen even more to almost nobody attending at all.
I have decided that, upon my return to my university city, I will be speaking to the good people at the RC cathedral and discussing what I will need to do for my initiation.
@@tyrsjmy86 Thank you friend. I think your plan sounds considered and wise. I will likewise pray for your walk with Christ.
Thankyou, I listened to all your words . God bless you . Here in America we have some of the worst goings on in churches ! Some terrible pastors .. They seem to forget that God is watching them .
I was confirmed in the Diocese of Southwark in the Church of England in the mid-80s while I was attending university in London. Used to be the only Chinese altar server in Southwark Cathedral. Really like the Catholic High Church liturgical worship at the cathedral and the Great Missal sung (sometimes in Latin) on Sunday Solemn Eucharist.
So, is the high Catholic church and great missal under the authority of the Anglican church?
@@miltonthomaslowe High catholic in the sense of Roman-esque beliefs and traditions. They are considered Anglo-Catholic in the Church of England. I am Anglo-Catholic in the Episcopal Church. There's a lot more varying views on things outside theology such as LGBTQ+ Rights and what not. Overall, I know enough to write a book on it, and I don't even know the beginning of it.
@@SirRyanChadius thanks Ryan. The original post mentioned great missal in which Latin is sometimes said in the mass. How often is Latin used? Second, is, is Anglo Catholicism is distinguished from the Anglican church in the use Latin liturgy? As I understand Anglicanism has articles which prohibits latin. Can you explain if possible?
@@miltonthomaslowe Yes. The Church of England is so designed that various congregations can have very different flavours, and some do. Many default to a certain flavour, and have become very vague.
In my limited experience Anglo-Catholics don't tend to use Latin, but some probably do. It's a self-defeating movement as many leave to join Rome.
@@miltonthomaslowe Not per se. Latin is just kinda seen down upon becuase of the Franca Lingua reasons for the split in the first place. Ultimately Anglo Catholicism is just high liturgical. I'd say the only things required are big poofy vestments, reverence for eucharist, and just believing similarly to people such as Saint John Henry Newman*Without splitting off from the church directly, whether that be because of the aformentioned gay rights, women in priesthood, or just thinking the Pope is a stinky loser or something* Obviously though, it's complicated. I can explain to you my thoughts, you can find other peoples thoughts, and you can read about it.
TLDR: No, it's not required to be anglo catholic to have latin, nor is latin outlawed, but instead seen as taboo.
i live in the US and am 81 years old. For a little over 12 years I was an Episcopalian (US Anglican). Then about 30 years ago i left because I could see no evidence they believed in or let it affect it in any way what the Bible said and what the church tradition was. I became Catholic. I have not been to church since the pandemic started. Why? in all that time I can't remember a single sermon that showed the priest actually believed in a supernatural reality. If there is no such reality, there is no need for a church. the only thing that our minister says is that Jesus loves you, but nothing is required of you. It got to wondering why bother.
Is this your experience in your Catholic parish too? If so, you may need to find another parish, or at least talk to your priest about his views. Sadly there are quite a few heterodox Catholic Priests out there. In my local Catholic parishes, the Priests obviously preach love, well since that is the greatest commandment, but they also preach about repentance, the devil, hell, and the sacraments.
Which pandemic? You've got another one now to excuse closing the churches and to avoid worshipping in person.
so sad to hear that you turned to the Roman church; there are better options than THAT cult.
I'm Lutheran and have plenty of criticisms against the Roman church but I can safety say your experience with the RC church was atypical.
"I can't remember a single sermon that showed the priest actually believed in a supernatural reality" So true. This is the crucial problem of modern Christianity. Lack of faith in the clergy.
I left the Episcopal Church and became Orthodox 24 years ago and haven't looked back. I was tired of being blindsided by innovations that run from silly to heretical. The rector at the last church I attended was a big fan of John Spong, a bishop who openly denied the Resurrection of Christ and the Virgin Birth among other things.
Yes, Episcopalism is more liberal, but you went from bad to worse. The Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox churches are the spawn of satan and the scum of the earth. Jesus and the Bible NEVER gave the "the church" the power and the authority to "save" people, dispense salvation, redeem souls from sin, guilt, and hell or be the sole arbiter and interpreter of the Bible and what it means. Sacerdotalism is a synonym for satanism. We are saved by Grace alone through faith alone in the Trinity of God, the Deity and full Godhood of the Lord God Jesus Christ and his sin atoning, sin paying for, penal substitutionary death and His glorious Resurrection, NOT good works, sacraments, rituals, the church, church membership, joining the church, church attendance, rosaries, scapulars and various other blasphemies. The book of Revelation calls the roman catholic church (and orthodox)the Whore of Babylon and the mother of abominations. Get out of it, run for you life, before it drags you to hell!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd be very interested in attending qn orthodox church to learn more but I'm over an hour's drive away from my closest orthodox church. Very few and far between!
@@BlueOstinato what part of the country?
@@BlueOstinato It's very easy, It's the Catholic church(which is already bad enough) on crack. The sacerdotalism(sacramentalism) ritualism , formalism, and legalism is completely out of control and is a mirror image of the Pharisees. Especially if you count theirs' (and the Catholic Church's) extrabiblical, unbiblical tradition in addition to the sacerdotalism(sacramentalism) ritualism , formalism, and legalism, they are modern day Pharisees.
@@BlueOstinato The closest to you are one on Leyland and one in Salford. About a half an hour drive.
I was born into the Church of England and had attended for most of my life. I'm an old man but it wasn't until a few years ago that I left. As I identify as orthodox the situation became untenable because everything thing became so watered down that in one sermon, the priest suggested that there was no such thing as blasphemy with far worse being said. I'm afraid, although I'm a believer, I am completely disenfranchised. Therefore, thank you for your channel.
My paternal grandmother died in the 1950s and my maternal grandmother died in the ‘60s. It never occured to me, while they were living, to question them closely about their understanding of the relationship between religious beliefs and practices on the one hand and religious organizations on the other hand.
I think religious organizations such as the Church of England have done - and continue to do - many things that are helpful to individuals, to families and to society as a whole but my personal view is that Christianity is and always was a personal religion - not an institutional one: i.e. that organization is a useful tool of the church but that the church consists of all believers, regardless of our denominational affiliation or lack thereof.
For that reason, I’m not particularly concerned about how many people profess to be Christians (see Matthew 7:22 & 23), much less how many people are affiliated with religious organizations or denominations.
A couple of years ago, I heard a pastor mention his concern that the number of people who were attending services in a particular church building was declining.
After the service, I suggested that he re-read the story of Gidion’s army (Judges 7) and consider that there might still be too many people attending services in that place.
It would be well for Christians everywhere to consider that real “church growth” is the spiritual growth of Christians*. Whether the Lord chooses to translate that into numbers of people who profess faith in him or numbers of people who attend formal or semi-formal worship services is entirely up to him.
*’Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus,
Just to take Him at His Word;
Just to rest upon His promise,
And to know, “Thus saith the Lord!”
Refrain:
Jesus, Jesus, how I trust Him!
How I’ve proved Him o’er and o’er;
Jesus, Jesus, precious Jesus!
Oh, for grace to trust Him more!
Oh, how sweet to trust in Jesus,
Just to trust His cleansing blood;
And in simple faith to plunge me
’Neath the healing, cleansing flood!
Yes, ’tis sweet to trust in Jesus,
Just from sin and self to cease;
Just from Jesus simply taking
Life and rest, and joy and peace.
I’m so glad I learned to trust Thee,
Precious Jesus, Savior, Friend;
And I know that Thou art with me,
Wilt be with me to the end.
Louisa M. R. Stead, 1882
Your personal view is wrong. Jesus put men in place to govern the Church. The Church is the final judge in disputes between Christians. They are first to try and work it out between themselves, then they bring it to some other Christians, and if that doesn't work, they bring it to the Church. The Church must be something other than the set of all believers, because it is impossible to bring any dispute before all believers everywhere. You cannot be commanded to observe an impossibility.
Also, your commitment to nondenominationalism is insensible. You say the Church consists of all believers. Believers in what? Conveniently undefined by you.
basically the truth. African churches growing are those that recruit and deploy ministers and missionaries not those who have a lot of pew sitters. Unfortunately Angliicans see ordination as too great a thing
@@iphidamasfilms1245 A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. So you are welcome to think I’m wrong.
On the other hand, someone else who is reading this might benefit from continuing this dialog.
The view that the Sanhedrien was the highest authority on Earth was what led many Hebrews to join in demanding that Pilate have Jesus crucified. A millennium later, the view that a church organization was the highest authority was what led many to assume that burning “heretics” was the right thing to do.
On the one hand, anyone reading what I wrote about believers being the church can define “believers” any way they wish. On the other hand, I’m willing to consider anyone a member of the universal church who doesn’t claim to be without sin.
I’m aware of the instruction Jesus gave about church discipline - as recorded in Matthew 18. Like you, I don’t understand the phrase in verse 17, “tell it unto the church” to mean that every Christian in the whole world should be involved in every dispute between two Christians.
Instead I understand that phrase to mean that, only after steps one and two have been carefully undertaken, if the matter is still not resolved, the local congregation of which those two Christians are members should be asked to make a decision.
If you prefer the hierarchical model of church organization, that probably means you understand the phrase, “tell it unto the church” to mean that the pastor or the officers of the congregation should make a decision and, if either party to the original disagreement is not willing to accept the decision, disciplinary action is appropriate.
I understand “tell it unto the church” to mean that step three in the process is for any and all voting members who attend the next “business meeting” of the congregation to carefully consider both sides of the dispute and then vote on whether one or the other or both parties to the dispute should be a) suspended from one or more privileges of voting membership for a specified length of time or b) deprived of voting membership until or unless both parties are willing to abide by the decision of the local congregation.
I can think of only one situation where such a decision should be made by some other entity than the local congregation. In a situation where the dispute is between a pastor and a lay member and IF pastoral assignments are made by an administrative council elected by delegates of several local congregations, it would be appropriate for that council to decide whether the pastor is in the wrong and, if so, take whatever action is deemed appropriate by the members of the council - but not to exceed depriving that pastor of financial support and assigning a new pastor to take his place.
@@snuurferalangur4357 In you're opinion is Jesus god? If so is he all powerful? If he is both why can he not communicate with everyone on earth directly himself?
To me it's all a fairy tale, no god at all.
@@snuurferalangur4357 I'm sure any all powerful god would leave one in no doubt so I would probably go to the doctor.
My husband and I have journeyed in our Christian faith into the Anglican Church in North America. We watch what is happening to the CofE and The Episcopal Church and weep. There are some lively and traditional CofE parishes but they have a hard road in front of them. The ACNA has emerged as a safe haven for Sacramental Christians who can no longer abide progressive worldviews.
Same here. We had to leave former denomination that had slipped from Biblical Orthodoxy into woke heresy. Anglicans in the UK are seeing this trend as in the US Episcopalian churches. ACNA is more in line with the Anglican churches throughout the world who are sticking with the Bible.
Try an Ordinaraite Catholic service if you can. True Anglo-Catholicism
After attending our previous, more "contemporary", church of 12yrs, the pandemic allowed us to reset and seek a church that aligned better with our theological beliefs. We ended up at an LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod). However, we were exploring the ACNA as well. Unfortunately, one of our requirements was also to be apart of our community, and the nearest ACNA church was over an hour away across state lines. I believe (given the right diocese) the ACNA is a lovely option and many should seek it out! (Of course, I'm very happy with my LCMS church, and I'd probably have made the same decision given the robust theological document of the Augsburg Confession that the LCMS ascribes to).
Just become Catholic already
"The ACNA has emerged as a safe haven for Sacramental Christians who can no longer abide progressive worldviews."
The ACNA allowing some jurisdictions to "ordain" women makes that not completely true.
I’m in the episcopal church and I will say my faith in God is unshakable but my alignment with my church feels rocky at times.
"Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall," (Proverbs 16:18
Attended an Anglican Church in a village in southern England for 18 months between house moves
It was pretty much rammed every Sunday and had to run multiple services
It was and is full on Charismatic with links to Holy Trinity Brompton mentioned by other posters
Anglican churches running under the New Expressions model also seem to be doing well
So the picture seems to be forget denominations and look at the theology of the individual church
Those which hold to a radical Spirit driven life are doing ok
Holy Trinity Brompton is not normal Anglican. Charismatics are a VERY VERY small minority of Christians, and not all of them are actually Christian (Bethel rings a bell).
@@rachelm9350 A recent report showed that 'Pentecostal' churches, including Charismatics, are actually the fastest growing stream of Christianity across the world.
'Not all of them are actually Christian'. May I ask how you come to that statement please, as it seems to be somewhat adrift from evidential reality.
@@mauricefrost8820 The Jesus preached at Bethel has more in common with the Jesus of JWs or Christian Science. Its not the same Jesus. Its not the same message, and its not the gospel. The focus isn't on saving the lost but acquiring super powers, which they think can be transmitted by their select group of who they call apostle or prophet. The gospel is not preached. Here is just a few of the false things they teach: th-cam.com/video/5SmYzDIXekk/w-d-xo.html
@@rachelm9350
Most people leaving Christianity
Stop lying churches are empty 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
as a member of the rebel Church of Nigeria, formerly a province in the COE, I wanted to join back to the COE when I moved to Germany and I kid not when I say the atmosphere was drab. Most sermons were so cold they put me to sleep, I could only remember two preachers that sparked any fire in the church. Unfortunately, the church didn´t have a permanent priest then, so we had to welcome an officiating priest once every two months, I spent almost half of the sermon t looking up the visiting priest´s view on theology, to ensure I wasn´t going to be fed the wrong message. It got so bad that I left service sometimes empty, so I had to switch to a baptist church. In the baptist church, I met an Indian lady and her experience was much similar to mine. I miss the hymns and the eucharist liturgy though, but overall I don´t think I will ever go back.
As an Episcopalian in the US choirboy and acolyte and now almost 76 years old I have seen the Church for years being torn between progressive and conservative sides. One reason for this problem is that many people from other demoninations became Episcopalians for social and status reasons. This also would include the Clergy and wives of the Clergy.The Church has become so WOKE!
You mean there is less hate today for homosexuals and you can’t stand it. You’re not focused on the real issues like protecting children from paedophile priests and pastors within these churches and why the church is hiding their crimes to protect the church - and not the children. The C of E was born out of adultery and set up by Henry VIII just to enable divorce which is the main thing Jesus preached against. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality in his sermons or preachings only adultery and divorce - but you haters will vote for Donald Trump even if he’d been married 30 times - but not if he was gay…. and monogamous. The Churches are in decline because people see you as you really are and they are repulsed.
join us RC's!!! we have an Anglican Use that is liturgically splendid!!
That is a very apt assessment of American Episcopalianism. I would recommend a conservative Protestant Church.
Social climbing Episcopal clergy, especially former Methodists and Presbyterians are the bane of the laity and the greatest recruiters for Catholic, Orthodox and even Buddhist churches. I finally told my erstwhile Presbyterian rector when he stopped by my barbershop that I couldn’t think of any reason for showing up aside from having raised Episcopalian and that that wasn’t a good enough reason to bother anymore. Like everyone else the vestry had hired since the ‘fifties he was a supercilious preppy with Ivy League connections having attend the divinity school affiliated with Columbia University. People like that are worse than useless. If the Episcopal church wanted good clergy they would pay the ordinands way through church divinity schools only and also demand that the ordinands live in community while training. But it’s too late now as the church has pretty much already died. I became Buddhist having read the entire Alan Watts canon. My favorite Anglican clergy are the ones who quit, like Watts and Tom Harpur, both now deceased. Harpur wrote The Pagan Christ.
I am Filipino here in the Philippines, and I am certified Anglican. and I still going to Church because attending Mass makes yourself complete as Human being 👍👍
Shocking Information! Thank you for your research, you are doing a great service for us all.
In addition to the decline in attendance and affiliation is the practical issue of real estate. After the reformation the Church of England "acquired" the medieval properties of the Catholic Church. From the most remote country chapel to Canterbury Cathedral and York Minster, the upkeep of numerous buildings requires huge amounts of cash. This has seen houses of prayer built by the widow's penny, turned into expensive museums with a side line in services. The C of E is basically a property consortium using historic funds to support notional congregations. When the Anglican communion succumbs to the inevitable, what will happen to thousands of medieval properties?
Anglican Communion is alive and well and soon the Ecumenical Primate Archbishop may be a Ghanaian, Nigerian or Kenyan Archbishop rather than British.
Heres an answer:
THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND MUST RETURN THEIR PARISHES TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
@@hesedagape6122 let's get real. Even internally they are projecting the end of the CoE within 30 years. Electing another nationality, what happened to Bishop Michael Nazri-Ali?
Give them back to their rightful owners and we'll see whether the Roman Catholic Church can steward them properly.
@@lelandunruh7896 The CofE have to turn around 500 years of managed decline. Give them back as you found them.
An uncomfortable truth is the Queen of England, Supreme Governor of the Church of England (a title handed down from Henry VIII in 1534) signed on a bill in 1967 permitting abortion up to 28 weeks gestation, or 7 months. One might expect some moral stance from the monarchy, but the religious role makes it even more onerous. Without getting political, she could have just abstained from affixing her signature. The slippery slope is of course leading to unbiblical marriage, etc. You can't have it both ways.
28 weeks , that’s 7 month old , what they would call a Premature Baby if it was born and spend Thousands of £ with teams of Doctors and Nurses fighting for its life in an Incubator!
The monarch not signing a bill (granting assent) would be the same as a veto. Under the British constitution the bill cannot become law without the queen's signature, so that would have precipitated a constitutional crisis. But your point stands - she should have refused if she had any moral principles.
King Baudouin of Belgium (a Roman Catholic) was presented with a bill legalizing abortion in 1990. He refused to sign - so parliament declared him incapacitated, passed it into law, and then restored his capacity.
The Church of England has abandoned anything resembling orthodox Christian faith. Gay marriage, gay and women "bishops", feminist sermons. The pink logo says it all. Perhaps it's the inevitable fate of a church which, ultimately, only exists because once upon a time the King of England couldn't get a divorce from the pope.
The Queen doesn't actually sign bills. Royal assent is given from the house of Lords
The Queen was constitutionally bound to sign the law lest she starts a constitutional crisis
@@genghiskhan5701 Better a constitutional crisis than millions of murdered babies. Moral choices are hard even more weighty on the head that bears the crown. Again, the British monarch is also the head of the Church of England which makes it more incumbent for moral leadership.
Most old churches are full of old people who dont want new people in their groups. From what I have seen I'm supprised at the lack of friendship and understanding in many of these places. So sad and opposite to the way.
This is also happening in the churches of the Nordic countries for decades. They get baptized and never show up after that. They are members of a church on paper but have never step foot in a church building.
Sad 😞
The Church of England is in decline, the Church of Sweden, Norway and Denmark are already dead
I laughed at England as a Catholic, but saddened as a Christian. God bless England may you stay close to Christ.
The effect of wokeism in the C of E should not be underestimated. That's why people are looking to the Orthodox and Catholic traditions, people are craving the authentic message, they don't want some diluted and PC version of the faith that's more in tune in with "the times" they want the true message full of tradition and mystery.
The House of Bishops have lost the plot
@@Keithjohnson-v9cI agree. The biggest enemies of the Church are the house of Bishops.
Wokeism is a fantasy ✨️
Wow I couldn't agree more! I'm Greek orthodox now converted 11 years ago and never looked back!!
I was a devout Anglican but got very dismayed with the whole church I was used to growing up all the changes were kinda not biblical!
I feel so much more fulfilled in the Greek orthodox church.
Anglicanism must return to it’s Catholic origins
Anglo-Catholicism already exists, and along that line, the Anglican Continuum
It has begun in 2009 with Anglicanorum Coetibus.
I went back to the Anglican Catholic Church here in the USA. They kept the old liturgy (1928 BCP). The music is wonderful (no electric guitars, basses or drums - just a pipe organ). All the 'smells and bells' too. Seems like they're gaining lots of refugees from the episcopal church.
Is there a reason you didn't mention statistics for the Catholic Church in England? Seems like that might have been an interesting comparison next to Eastern Orthodoxy.
RC churches are thriving thanks mainly to Poles and Lithuanians and refugees from Anglicianism
They are in decline, but still better than CoE
@@papi8659 praise the Lord for such things🙏.
@@christophersalinas2722 Thank God Poland is the fastest secularizing country in Europe. Tho I wish it was lietuva my souther brothers who would atlast abandon the religion of their enemies.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 haha very funny joke
I am CofE. Some of the things the Archbishop of Canterbury has come out with is insane.
It is saddening to see my local Church in sharp decline. We're lucky to get 15 on a Sunday...
But, there is hope! I am to be baptised in July, and hopefully people will follow my example
Get out. It was literally founded because the Pope wouldn't let King Henry divorce his wife. 😂😂😂
@@Adrian_M it is a little bit more nuanced than that, but more or less yeh
@@fabulouschild2005 It's time to become Catholic!
@@catholicinformationvideos God NO.
Hi Joshua, thanks again for your work. After watching this one, I’d be very interested in a similar video looking at the the Scandinavian national churches (Norway, Sweden, Denmark).
do for iceland too and faroese islands
oh much awaited
The Anglican Church modernized and has accepted all the modern beliefs for good and evil. When church looks like and offers no more than the rest of the world, why bother?
Very true!
If a house isn't built by God, the builders were tired in vain... Psalms
Let's be real the issue is that the church stopped preaching, teaching and living out the gospel. It substituted the veracity of the gospel, it's foundation, for liberal moralistic teaching and acclimated to the culture rather than the culture acclimating to tje gospel.
People need substance to stand on and fill up with! We need to gospel taught in its entirety! The church isn’t dying it’s ceasing to be the church so people are walking out.
More people leave Christianity.
@@slayedclaw317 actually Christianity is steadily the same, it’s just people switching denominations
I had a good time in the Church of England before returning home to Catholicism. Problem was, it was not a demanding faith, and didn’t really nourish me. Felt very little emphasis was given on sin and repentance in the mainstream of the tradition. I’m sure there are good parishes, particularly in the evangelical and Anglo Catholic traditions, b
Funnily enough, it's the sin, repentance and guilt tripping that puts most people off Christianity in general.
@@richardharrold9736 Yes and no. It is why _most_ people don't attend church, or come only on holidays, and live largely secular lifestyles. But for those who truly embrace faith, it's exactly the opposite. Those people _want_ what you dismiss as "the sin, repentance, and guilt tripping." Those are the people looking for moral and spiritual guidance, in order to be better people, and attain salvation after death. Those people _want_ the rules to follow, because those rules, they believe, tell them how to live as better people.
A similar thing happens with ideology, and Geo. Orwell correctly identified it (with emphasis added on the relevant part):
“[Hitler] has grasped the falsity of the hedonistic attitude to life. Nearly all western thought since the last war, certainly all ‘progressive’ thought, has assumed tacitly that human beings desire nothing beyond ease, security, and avoidance of pain. In such a view of life there is no room, for instance, for patriotism and the military virtues. Hitler, because in his own joyless mind he feels it with exceptional strength, knows that human beings don’t only want comfort, safety, short working-hours, hygiene, birth-control and, in general, common sense; _they also, at least intermittently, want struggle and self-sacrifice, not to mention drums, flag and loyalty-parades…_ Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a grudging way, have said to people ‘I offer you a good time,’ Hitler has said to them ‘I offer you struggle, danger and death,’ and as a result a whole nation flings itself at his feet.”
The appeal of some ideologies, and the appeal of many religions, is that they offer a person a chance to be a part of something greater than the individual, but people have to work and sacrifice for it. But they do it, very willingly, because they believe the very struggle, the difficulty, makes the reward all the greater.
The modern, liberal, increasingly secularized Protestant denominations have lost sight of this, and that's why they are losing members. People who want a secular community center have a wide array to chose from; they join a _church_ for something different, and something harder, but commensurately more valued because of it.
Y yo, que tengo el mismo problema en la Iglesia Católica... ¿a cuál debo regresar?
This is a concern that keeps churchmen at the established churches awake at night, trust me I know, because I'm one of them. (1) There is some truth that the sheep tend to flock where sound doctrine is preached, rather than culturally sensitive safe spaces are created. (2) I wonder how much of that Orthodox Church growth is a result of changing geographic distributions of the global population though? (3) What the statistics do show is a general decline in church attendance and an increasing number of people who identify as not having any particular religious affiliation. We are living in a post-Christian world and church leaders will have to become imaginative about how we go about reaching people.
Most of the Orthodox movement is coming from the East. A few Anglicans have joined it, but not many.
Yes, Churches have become imaginative about how they reach people. Primarily, they try to reach people by making their churches irreverent and otherwise compromised. They've made themselves soft-exits for people to leave Christianity.
If you're assuming a "post Christian" church, why do you even want to "reach" them? I would think that clergy, who love _being_ the "Noble Lie", are the problem that spiritually hungry people _flee_ in the established churches!
Church leaders need not do more than listen to the minds of the young sons. The relationship between the Father and the Son has been severed by a spirit of conflict and intolerance for voicing irrationality, dissent and distrust. The clergy as the Father has been executing moves without relation to the Son and is surprised when he leaves.
@@Nick_fb Christ was always obedient to the will of our Father in heaven and his adoptive father (Joseph) on earth, even he didn't understand or was personally opposed to it.
Lord God, lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy. Amen.🙏
I took my sons to Sunday school for the first 18 years of their lives. I still practice only because I separate my belief from the C of E. I despair at the unacceptable, woke leadership of Justin Welby who does great damage to the level of church attendance.
There was only one reference to Jesus in all the comments and it was about His love, not that sinners need to repent and accept His forgiveness. Liberalism vs. Conservatism is not the issue. God sent His Son Jesus to the cross to be the sacrifice for our sin. All we have to do is accept His sacrifice and believe in Him. Then confess to others so that they might believe as well. Social programs are a result of the love of Jesus in our hearts. But repentance must come first.
Shut up mixbreed!
It is in one sense. A lot of these churches are not preaching Christ. In fact, I've heard some of their sermons and scratched my head as to what Christian content there actually was.
@@thursoberwick1948 mostly, it is "send us your money."
"When things are back to normal"? That's quite a presumption!
im a British Anglican, and the biggest downfall of our churches is this woke stuff, we have a woke all inclusive Archbishop of Canterbury and its making the church lose its way. The church doesnt seem to understand that people want church moral guidance, and the more the church moves away from tradition, and in to the woke world, the more attendance will suffer, is suffering, and its true, the more the individual churches fight the instruction to go woke, those churches are growing, while the others are not. Complicated for us tho, because our churches are state backed, so in some ways are forced to follow what the goverment tells them to do. It is reported that the head church leaders and bishop were in fact threatened by the goverment, that if they didnt follow the law of inclusivity, (and stop all the church scripture nonsense) the goverment would by law, force them to do it, and since then, the church as gone in to deep decline, and in fact is going through a schism, as other world Anglican church organizations, have denounce Canterbury as its lead church and told Welby the archbishop, to repent and have gone as far as calling him a heretic
As a former Episcopalian in the United States, it is also apparent the Episcopal Church USA is in a deep decline. However the Anglican Church in North America ( ACNA) is gaining strength daily and will soon overtake the Episcopal Church in numbers. This will eventually happen in England as well. The extreme material wealth of the CoE & the Episcopal Church is what has allowed the two to continue for so long.
When you have large endowments such as Trinity Church Wall Street with billions of dollars and even obscure parishes with millions, a hollow church can continue even without much of a congregation. It is sad to see so many clergy happy with this condition - empty churches with splendid buildings, great music, fat salaries & benefits, generally professing a politically liberal point of view.
The new Anglicanism already encompasses a larger group of people racially and socially. It is not limited to the old Upper Class & Upper Middle Class White Anglo-American of the old Episcopal Church.
I’m also a former Episcopalian who tried being a Catholic monk, was invited to become a Greek Orthodox monk, but then eventually became a Buddhist. There is no doubt that the Episcopal Church is in effect a museum church. And as a museum church it is presided over by curatorial over-educated narcissistic douchebags who patronize the few people who bother to show up. These people then disappear unless they have something to prove. The greatest Episcopal priest of the past one hundred years was the English immigrant Alan Watts. Another great man was Tom Harpur of the Anglican Church of Canada who wrote The Pagan Christ. Literal belief in the gospels has become insupportable as even Bishops Pike and Spong both admitted.
Perhaps if the churches preached whats actually in the scriptures , oh wait they cant , that would mean kicking out women preist's not performing same sex marriage , but the Word of God has no place in the church . Diversity , equality are far more important to the church of England than the actual word of the Lord.
Wouldn't it also mean ending remarriage of divorced ppl or somehow dealing with the 1st marriage vows made before Jesus and His church?
Nothing in the scripture says a women can't preach? Although I completely agree with the rest
@@AnEagle actually it does 1ST TIMOTHY 2V12
"Heaven's Gate"
Somebody tell them
Where are you finding this information about “Heaven’s Gate”? I will search the Internet twice now and I cannot find anything
@@chefevilee9566 Heaven's Gate is the name for a cult
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group)
@@HatterTobias oh thank you very much. Somebody else told me about that cult. But I guess the Anglican church has a new outreach program and that is what it’s called? someone else made a comment about they need to figure out their branding because that is not a good name for their outreach ministry? So I was trying to figure out where in the heck this is posted at? I went to the church of England but I can’t find it🤷♀️
The outreach program sharing a name with an obscure US cult probably won't cause much scandal in the context of Britain. The average Brit isn't aware it exists/existed.
I'm an atheist who left the Anglican Church of Canada behind me several decades ago. The Anglican churches in my city, along with churches of many other denominations, are closing their doors on a very regular basis. Religiosity among legacy Canadians has been in steady decline for decades, but the robust and lax immigration policies are importing immigrants with a variety of religious beliefs from poor and under educated countries. Some Anglican churches are receiving a new life a Buddhist temples, or houses of worship for other religions, but the majority are being renovated and converted into luxury condominium apartments, retaining their arched and stained glass windows where possible. The immigrant attended Christian churches have popped up everywhere in storefronts and small commercial rental spaces to meet the needs of their tiny congregations.