Yamaha PWSe. Pretty happy with it, those 70nm of torque are very well used I feel and I do notice some drag past 26k/h but nothing dramatic. I can still climb sets of stairs and steep hills with ease but it does seem to lose power when the battery is below 60%. But I am just neat picking, it is a brilliant motor and everybody that tries it loves it. so on my next ebike i want the PWX because it is the same just better and stronger. Great video, very informative and we needed it. Thank you guys, especially for standing in the rain pretending nothing is wrong hhahahahha cheers! oh and great camera work to the guys behind the lens as well. And editing. 10/10
Not sure why more Giant e-bikes aren't featured as the Yamaha/Giant motor gives 360% assistance and 80Nm in the 2019 Trance-e. They seem to be one of the best value bikes getting around at the moment as they cost half as much as the featured Levo and have higher spec components.
It wouldn't be to good for the sponsors of this show, if they featured Giant bikes to much, I have a 2016 Giant full E and now a Focus Jam2, If I want info on these bikes, I search different videos on TH-cam, This show is great for general info on E mounting bikes.
I first tried a Bosch Haibike and then a Yamaha one. Yamaha all the way - for me. quick engaging, super strong and low drag. I guess they are all pretty good though.
The only one that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole for my use, is the Rocky Mountain. From my brief test and from reading various forums, the chain case clogs and blocks when things get muddy. The only place for it as far as I'm concerned, is Room 101.
PLEASE do a segment on eBikes that offer different motors! ----- WHAT SYSTEM HAS PROVEN ITSELF TO BE TOPS? NORCO offers an E7000 & the E8000... Rocky Mountain has the Dyname 3.0 250w / 48v in Li-Ion 632 Watt/Hr Battery OR Li-Ion 500 Watt/Hr Battery Cannondale offers the Bosch Performance Line in 250W(25km) or in 350W(45km)
Great vid guys, very informative. I have the Performance Line CX on my Haibike. The cut off is quite harsh at 25kph but tbh on descents you don’t notice it. I use mine in tour mode for climbing unless it’s really tech terrain and emtb for descending. Preserves battery power and although it sounds quite a weird way to use it, it works for me. I like the beasting for climbing as it’s good training and then the extra power if needed descending.
I tried few bikes and IMO motor is not the most important. For MTB priorities are ergonomy, geometry, traction , solid design. I accept only integrated battery solution where the battery can be easy removed from the bottom side.(we can mount bottle cage) And of course the price is important too. I bought Scott e-genius 920 for 3600 Euro last year and it has E8000 motor. It is quiet when heavy loaded. If not than it delivers some noise but mistly it is slways loaded. And in Shimano system I like levers for switching assistance level -they are confortabke in use particulary in winter when I use thick gloves. It is a kind of front derailleur😀
Of all the ebikes available, which would you consider your top three when looking at performance, noise, maintenance and overall package.? And perhaps your overall top pick.
@@joggerke5295 The quietest of all the major brands at least. Way more quiet than Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha, TQ. The magnesium version of the Brose Drive S however is a little louder than the aluminium version (if you make heavy use of it uphill / with the most power), but still more quiet than all the other brands. Check out this comparison as well: th-cam.com/video/M0a_eMmtFDA/w-d-xo.html
#AskEMBN great feature. Very informative and look forward to seeing these in context with the TQ and Panasonic motors. Only question that came to mind was: how does the torque rating relate to the level of assistance modes? Would be great if you could clarify. Thanks! Just to illustrate: Bosch performance line CX with 75Nm of torque: In ECO mode it provides 50% assistance, which I figured was around half its max torque output, but if that is the case, what does it mean when it says it provides 300% assistance in Turbo mode? It can't really relate directly to the torque output, can it? Would have thought 100% assistance would equate to the motors max torque output.
@Martin Schmidt Of course the power output is related to the torque. Power is a product of torque and your cadence (revolutions per minute), so the motor will reduce the torque at a cadence to give smaller assistance. But mainly the assistance you get is calculated in extra power, so when you are paddeling with 100 watt, the motor will give you extra 50 watt for example.
What about the raising complaints worldwide about the Bosch Performance CX? Specifically for loud noise, similar to a coffee grinder..... Apparently the motor bearings get dust... There are more and more customers complaining about this
Guys, help me out with this: I own a giant with a Yamaha pwx pro motor. 80nm and 250w. But it is a LOT more powerful than the eclipse2 powered focus I had before... Is this really 250W? Thanks
Hi guys. I have a 2017 turbo Levo. I would like to change for a Rocky mountain power play altitude, or the new Levo. But the Levo is really more expensive than the RM for the same equipment (suspensions). Do you have a brake after 25 km/h with the RM ? As you say you do not have any resistance with the new Levo. Which one will you recommend ? Thanks
QUESTION for EMBN..... Is it ok to ride your E-Bike but keep the motor OFF? Like for long descents or just wanting to save battery. Is it ok for the motor to ride it turned off? Thank you
Where the heck is discussion about Bafang? Huge selection of motors - hub and mids, from 110w hub to 1000w Ultra mid motor that makes the puny 250w Euro spec seem ridiculous.
All fine motors once they are derestricted except for maybe Bosch they are pretty noisy. The 750 watt bafang is so quiet I startle walkers if I dont ring my bell passing them.
I agree, its heavy, overly large with that tiny front ring, also its draggy . I would not buy a bike with that system . The only positive is its very powerful. Ive tried all those systems and be happy with any of the others, the yamaha really is impressive and seems very under rated.
@@RacingSnakeV8 Eco also has a lower peak torque of 40Nm as opposed to Trail at 70Nm. I have my Eco backed off to 30%/20Nm at the moment. Trail response is also non-linear, if you are pedalling lightly the % will be less than the nominal setting and if pushing hard higher.
@@RacingSnakeV8 I have the shimano interface which allow pc connection and I have looked up the percentage for each setting. As Chris has stated the torque on eco is lower than on boost and trail modes, although mine was set at 40nm so that could change from bike brand or even firmware version?
I keep thinking that there are no ( non patronizing) reviews for hybrids, everyday stuff, going to the shops, carrying shopping, comfort, etc. I realize that the glamorous high speed, hurtling down mountains, cost no object bikes will attract sponsors and youngsters with money, enough to own several £5K+ bikes. But where are the real reviews? ie No "what a lovely bell" or indeed " such lovely colours" or "a very nice finish on the headlight and cleverly concealed wiring" Less "Top Gear" more" Auto Express" tell us about innovation in the volume market. Sub £2k good value everyday rides. I'm 70 and haven't riden a non motorized two wheeler in decades. My ebike is my lifeline, it seems that the only advice is from sources with vested interests £££££££. Am I missing something out there?
Oh, come on. Court at EBR has reviewed many hundreds of ebikes - low-end to premium, of all types. And Citrus Cycles provides fantastic, in-depth reviews. Check them both out.
No disrespect but putting out 250W does not mean it lasts two hours from a 500Wh battery. From battery to rear wheel power, it’s a serial efficiency equation which depends on a number of factors such as Amps (torque) and Volts (rpm). If the statement above were true we’d have 100% efficiency and that’s just not physics 😏
Make sure you have updated to latest firmware... The only mode you notice both lag on and overrun off is boost. Eco and trail are very smooth on and off pedalling.
@@scott5731 I think the latest is 4.6.6 and honestly easy to do once you manage to connect etubes app on your phone to the bike via bluetooth :) Apple easier than android from my experience. If using android ensure that you have location services turned on your phone (don't ask)... anyway once you have connected your phone via etubes ap to the bike its dead simple obviously a decent internet connect to your phone helps with speed.
"There's an optional display for the Levo" -holds up a tiny LCD display- "That's 80 pounds" Yeap, typical Specialized, making everything expensive as usual.
Until they start making heavy chains for mid-drives, I will never buy one. I have snapped too many chains and busted my balls too many times and know better.
Which motor does your electric bike use?
A Brose, 2017, 8000km, works still fine !
Rear hub bldc 250w/500w peak :)
Bosch CX
Bosch performance CX
Yamaha PWSe. Pretty happy with it, those 70nm of torque are very well used I feel and I do notice some drag past 26k/h but nothing dramatic. I can still climb sets of stairs and steep hills with ease but it does seem to lose power when the battery is below 60%. But I am just neat picking, it is a brilliant motor and everybody that tries it loves it. so on my next ebike i want the PWX because it is the same just better and stronger. Great video, very informative and we needed it. Thank you guys, especially for standing in the rain pretending nothing is wrong hhahahahha cheers! oh and great camera work to the guys behind the lens as well. And editing. 10/10
Not sure why more Giant e-bikes aren't featured as the Yamaha/Giant motor gives 360% assistance and 80Nm in the 2019 Trance-e. They seem to be one of the best value bikes getting around at the moment as they cost half as much as the featured Levo and have higher spec components.
It wouldn't be to good for the sponsors of this show, if they featured Giant bikes to much, I have a 2016 Giant full E and now a Focus Jam2, If I want info on these bikes, I search different videos on TH-cam, This show is great for general info on E mounting bikes.
One of the best presentations so far, superb and easy at the same time, a lot of information, comparisons to ... Steve, that's it!👌❤❤❤
Great info/video! Thanks!
An excellent, informative episode. One of your best.
Brose, on a Turbo Levo. Very silent, I love it.
I first tried a Bosch Haibike and then a Yamaha one. Yamaha all the way - for me. quick engaging, super strong and low drag. I guess they are all pretty good though.
Brose, 2019 turbo levo expert. Love it
Some good unique info for those researching the motor types - particularly the noise variables
I've got giant using Yamaha pwx motor . Just great long fire roads rides nice , but the power if needed on climbs is just there .
The only one that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole for my use, is the Rocky Mountain. From my brief test and from reading various forums, the chain case clogs and blocks when things get muddy. The only place for it as far as I'm concerned, is Room 101.
The chain routing does look overly complex from pics I have seen.
PLEASE do a segment on eBikes that offer different motors! ----- WHAT SYSTEM HAS PROVEN ITSELF TO BE TOPS?
NORCO offers an E7000 & the E8000...
Rocky Mountain has the Dyname 3.0 250w / 48v in Li-Ion 632 Watt/Hr Battery OR Li-Ion 500 Watt/Hr Battery
Cannondale offers the Bosch Performance Line in 250W(25km) or in 350W(45km)
Great vid guys, very informative. I have the Performance Line CX on my Haibike. The cut off is quite harsh at 25kph but tbh on descents you don’t notice it. I use mine in tour mode for climbing unless it’s really tech terrain and emtb for descending. Preserves battery power and although it sounds quite a weird way to use it, it works for me. I like the beasting for climbing as it’s good training and then the extra power if needed descending.
A good look at the different options Gents. Excellent vid. 👍
Cheers Mark! 👊
Another great story, thanks!
Thanks Andrew 🤟
I tried few bikes and IMO motor is not the most important.
For MTB priorities are ergonomy, geometry, traction , solid design.
I accept only integrated battery solution where the battery can be easy removed from the bottom side.(we can mount bottle cage)
And of course the price is important too.
I bought Scott e-genius 920 for 3600 Euro last year and it has E8000 motor.
It is quiet when heavy loaded.
If not than it delivers some noise but mistly it is slways loaded.
And in Shimano system I like levers for switching assistance level -they are confortabke in use particulary in winter when I use thick gloves.
It is a kind of front derailleur😀
Of all the ebikes available, which would you consider your top three when looking at performance, noise, maintenance and overall package.? And perhaps your overall top pick.
It is a pity that EMBN does not answer that question, is about to buy my first emtb and am looking for the best and quietest engine ..
Fazua Evation... it's SIXTY (60) Nm of torque, not sixteen (16), Steve...
I tested , and for me, the brose tested the best. It is the most silent and is super powerfull.
Same for me, at least the same power as a Bosch CX, but a much better, more natural feeling and more quiet.
@@_-Lea_- Is the engine really that quiet?
@@joggerke5295 The quietest of all the major brands at least. Way more quiet than Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha, TQ. The magnesium version of the Brose Drive S however is a little louder than the aluminium version (if you make heavy use of it uphill / with the most power), but still more quiet than all the other brands. Check out this comparison as well: th-cam.com/video/M0a_eMmtFDA/w-d-xo.html
#AskEMBN great feature. Very informative and look forward to seeing these in context with the TQ and Panasonic motors. Only question that came to mind was: how does the torque rating relate to the level of assistance modes? Would be great if you could clarify. Thanks!
Just to illustrate: Bosch performance line CX with 75Nm of torque: In ECO mode it provides 50% assistance, which I figured was around half its max torque output, but if that is the case, what does it mean when it says it provides 300% assistance in Turbo mode? It can't really relate directly to the torque output, can it? Would have thought 100% assistance would equate to the motors max torque output.
@Martin Schmidt Of course the power output is related to the torque. Power is a product of torque and your cadence (revolutions per minute), so the motor will reduce the torque at a cadence to give smaller assistance. But mainly the assistance you get is calculated in extra power, so when you are paddeling with 100 watt, the motor will give you extra 50 watt for example.
brose motor. totally standard and not derestricted using the lightblue app.
What about the raising complaints worldwide about the Bosch Performance CX? Specifically for loud noise, similar to a coffee grinder..... Apparently the motor bearings get dust... There are more and more customers complaining about this
Guys, help me out with this: I own a giant with a Yamaha pwx pro motor. 80nm and 250w. But it is a LOT more powerful than the eclipse2 powered focus I had before... Is this really 250W? Thanks
Giant have a different software. Better and more powerful on the same motor.
Flyon Tq motor review please guys I'm very interested in the new haibike flyon range and would like your honest opinion please.
Hi guys. I have a 2017 turbo Levo. I would like to change for a Rocky mountain power play altitude, or the new Levo. But the Levo is really more expensive than the RM for the same equipment (suspensions). Do you have a brake after 25 km/h with the RM ? As you say you do not have any resistance with the new Levo. Which one will you recommend ? Thanks
I’m currently riding my Merida eone sixty great bike but I do find it pretty noisy is there any tricks to quietening these motors
Liked this comparison of motors! Thanks #EMBN
Thanks Paul👍
QUESTION for EMBN..... Is it ok to ride your E-Bike but keep the motor OFF? Like for long descents or just wanting to save battery. Is it ok for the motor to ride it turned off? Thank you
Hey Dan, Yes this is completely fine but not really needed due to the freewheel in the rear hub. 👍
Where the heck is discussion about Bafang? Huge selection of motors - hub and mids, from 110w hub to 1000w Ultra mid motor that makes the puny 250w Euro spec seem ridiculous.
Any motor is great if you have a cardio like me😁
All fine motors once they are derestricted except for maybe Bosch they are pretty noisy. The 750 watt bafang is so quiet I startle walkers if I dont ring my bell passing them.
Im not a fan of displays. Buttons with different led lights is fine for me.
Bosch used to be the best, now they are the worst. Only motor I wouldn't want on my bike (from this list)
I agree, its heavy, overly large with that tiny front ring, also its draggy . I would not buy a bike with that system . The only positive is its very powerful. Ive tried all those systems and be happy with any of the others, the yamaha really is impressive and seems very under rated.
What are the % assistance levels for the Shimano motor?
Eco is 60%, Trail 70%, 90% or 110% and Boost is 150%, 200% or 300%. Trail and boost are tuneable via etube app hence 3 setting for each of them.
@@DAZ1925 I have my Trail and Boost set to low but it feels like more than an extra 10% when going from Eco to Trail. Are you sure Eco is that high?
@@RacingSnakeV8 Eco also has a lower peak torque of 40Nm as opposed to Trail at 70Nm. I have my Eco backed off to 30%/20Nm at the moment. Trail response is also non-linear, if you are pedalling lightly the % will be less than the nominal setting and if pushing hard higher.
@@RacingSnakeV8 I have the shimano interface which allow pc connection and I have looked up the percentage for each setting. As Chris has stated the torque on eco is lower than on boost and trail modes, although mine was set at 40nm so that could change from bike brand or even firmware version?
I keep thinking that there are no ( non patronizing) reviews for hybrids, everyday stuff, going to the shops, carrying shopping, comfort, etc.
I realize that the glamorous high speed, hurtling down mountains, cost no object bikes will attract sponsors and youngsters with money, enough to own several £5K+ bikes.
But where are the real reviews? ie No "what a lovely bell" or indeed " such lovely colours" or "a very nice finish on the headlight and cleverly concealed wiring"
Less "Top Gear" more" Auto Express" tell us about innovation in the volume market. Sub £2k good value everyday rides. I'm 70 and haven't riden a non motorized two wheeler in decades. My ebike is my lifeline, it seems that the only advice is from sources with vested interests £££££££.
Am I missing something out there?
Oh, come on. Court at EBR has reviewed many hundreds of ebikes - low-end to premium, of all types. And Citrus Cycles provides fantastic, in-depth reviews. Check them both out.
Clue is in the title, EMBN Electric Mountain Bike Network
Shimano E8000 all the way ...
No disrespect but putting out 250W does not mean it lasts two hours from a 500Wh battery. From battery to rear wheel power, it’s a serial efficiency equation which depends on a number of factors such as Amps (torque) and Volts (rpm). If the statement above were true we’d have 100% efficiency and that’s just not physics 😏
I wish the shimano had the instant characteristics of the yamaha, the slight lag at engagement is annoying
Make sure you have updated to latest firmware... The only mode you notice both lag on and overrun off is boost. Eco and trail are very smooth on and off pedalling.
derek harper im on version 4.4.5 and i get lag on all modes even eco, im worried I'll brick it if i update
@@scott5731 I think the latest is 4.6.6 and honestly easy to do once you manage to connect etubes app on your phone to the bike via bluetooth :) Apple easier than android from my experience. If using android ensure that you have location services turned on your phone (don't ask)... anyway once you have connected your phone via etubes ap to the bike its dead simple obviously a decent internet connect to your phone helps with speed.
i wanna see faster bikes *Please*
"There's an optional display for the Levo"
-holds up a tiny LCD display-
"That's 80 pounds"
Yeap, typical Specialized, making everything expensive as usual.
Bosch needs to update it's displays, Looks dated like some old 1990 Casio.
Until they start making heavy chains for mid-drives, I will never buy one. I have snapped too many chains and busted my balls too many times and know better.