Supacentre Kings 120Ah Lithium LiFePO4 Battery Performance Teardown Review Part 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ธ.ค. 2024
- Get your Kings Lithium Battery here! amzn.to/3oSG73j
In this episode we tear down the Supacentre Kings 120Ah Lithium LiFePO4 Battery and test the temperature protection of the BMS.
Chris Eade's excellent review of the Mark 1 Kings 120Ah Black Top Battery:
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Did this change you mind about the Kings Battery? Or confirm it?
I would consider the battery based on your review as there is only one issue that is not really a issue for most of Australia. For the other 15% you shouldn’t be relying on the internal functions of the battery (IMO). This function renders the battery unusable until temperatures climb back up. A cheap $50 fix makes the battery still usable for charging and discharging. I live in the other 85% and I protect my batteries again overheating.
It confirmed my opinion. I am very happy to pay more for better quality.
Two fails, the low temp and qr code. The qr code is sus as fk. I'll never buy one, thank you!👍🤠
Have you notice the difference in the weight of some of these batteries? Some are 15.5 kg others are only about 12 something kg ?
Kings says it is because of terminal location with leas wiring. Nearly 3 kg of wiring seems a lot to me.
Great videos 👍
Still looking. There’s an enormous price variation on this product. Very confusing.
I’ve have had on for 4 years, black top. It runs everything my fridges, lights and even a toaster off an inverter. I haven’t had a issue. I capacity tested it last month it still made 117.73 Ah 1513.96Wh . I posted my results on that group you talk about but omg the hate for anything Kings, people just didn’t want to know that they aren’t that bad for the money you pay. The admins began reviewing everything I posted and rejecting any more further test results. So I left the group, the group is really for very basic dc information and I don’t think the admins understood what I was posting! The Kings hate is a real pile on psychosis push by lithium haters and people that represent other battery manufacturers. So let them pay more than double for a battery with the same Wh to run their toaster I say! 😂
I took my 120ah kings battery apart today and its totally different inside, despite testing at 130ah just like yours. Mine has the bms located on the end of the battery near the negative terminal, and instead of 4s setup, it uses 8 cells in a series parallel configuration. It has qr codes but they wont scan either. It does however utilise the same green bms yours has. Its so interesting that kings also did the same with the 200ah, one teardown yielded 4 cells in series, and just weeks later another teardown and there was a 8 cell series parallel configuration.
Blue top?
@LockyourHubs4WDing
yep, appears to be identical to yours from the outside, tested to 130.1ah with victron smartshunt at 1c load, for all intents and purposes its the same battery, just with a different setup inside. Theres also about 40mm of unoccupied space either side of the cells and bms, so these batteries could really be a LOT smaller. Batch number on mine is 23925
Oh and by the way, the small round plugs that cover the screws, most of mine came out simply with some packing tape stuck over and then pulled off, blu tack also works, but if you get a really tight one, a tiny drop of superglue and then i stuck my finger to it and lifted right out. Had 3 like that. Makes for a lot neater removal with out butchering the plugs or battery case.
@@lexicase8805 great! So not all bluetops are the same :(
Something that kind of did work out for me though is because theres a decent amount of spare room in the battery case, i put my victron smartshunt inside the battery which neatens up a lot of stuff and protects the shunt as well.
@@lexicase8805 Victron make a great shunt, I've got a couple of them.
Really impressed. A genuine technical review. I think just a few months would see different cells inside the market is moving so fast. At least I know its a decent cell and not crap!!
I would like to pull a current one apart and have a look at any changes.
Straight shooter extraordinaire! Bloody thorough review too. Greatly appreciated.
If the price is right, I'd buy them, but right now they are selling them for $600 - $650 - they would need to be under $500 as I would need to compensate with additional component for the lack of low temperature cuttoff and the additional risk of unmarked cells. I'm not concerned about used cells - if they deliver the AH claimed and they are not physically bloated, they have another 2000 cycles before they get to 80% or 96AH.
They're $500 on Amazon, but the shipping is a bit rich.
I agree that technically if they were used cells there shouldn't be an issue of the lifespan of the product, though my objection if they are second hand cells is an objection in principle. It's sold as a new product and should contain new cells.
Ecoflow is now selling 100ah lithium for $198 usa , here in nz that's 690 ,should be 400 to 500, give it a few mouths and will be lower
Great videos. Would love to see more vids on batteries, possibly comparing different types on the market. Sounds like you have a wealth of knowledge that needs to be shared with the community! Thanks so much for your hard work.
I would love to do a battery performance testing video, not just the differences in the chemistries (that I've already covered) but directly measured performance testing as well.
The reality is in Australia the low temp cutoff isn’t necessarily important considering the batteries will highly unlikely reach below zero where mounted in a van or vehicle.
If you do consistently travel in super cold areas you should be looking at some form of insulation around your batteries and not 100% rely on a sensor that could fail at anytime without notice.
You make some valid points, though if they've gone to the trouble of adding a functional temp probe, why wouldn't they program the cold temps as well as the hot ones.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing agree with that but I wouldn’t 100% rely one
I tend to agree with you there, the other thing is that a lot of the mid range DC DC chargers that have a lithium charging profile that say they have Temperature Sensing also do not have a temp cutoff when the temp is to low, its in fact there to increase charge on cold days and reduce charge on hot days lead acid batteries. I am in this pickle right now, having ordered a lithium battery to find the temp probe on the CTEK unit i have does not have a cutoff feature when the temp gets too low, which is a problem for me as my battery is in the back of my ute (even if it is under a canopy). Having said that it might be -4 to -6 on the very odd day around here during winter but im tipping the inside of the battery itself is still well above 0, so ill try an insulating jacket around it and a rubber matt beneath to decouple it from its metal base plate.
Thanks for both your videos on these batteries. Its always intriguing to know whats inside stuff that is being sold so much cheaper than the alternative brands.... like cells with no QR codes.
I"m very tempted by the Kings slimline 100ah. I imagine it has a similar standard of internal components.
PS, i'm now a subscriber, Iits good to see someone doing a tear down that knows all the ins and outs.
I was concerned about the QR codes, Supercentre actually reached out asking about the batch number then went radio silent replying to emails.....
Great video thanks 👍- good description and breakdown of how it all works.
These batteries are good value for money IMHO.
I was using mine just this weekend powering my electric blanket out camping! (It's snowing here in Victoria!) Still working like a champion.
(The BMS can disconnect the battery to prevent damage from over or under temperature) i cut and pasted this from their website. I purchased one of these batteries a few months ago and questioned kings via there customer service email on this subject. I live in Vic and was concerned with cold mornings. In short i got nowhere, the customer service guy escalated it to someone else and it became clear he was just googling the answers lol. Looks like i need to invest in a battery protection thingy, i didn't know they existed. Great video, thanks.
Glad to help, it's strange they would implement one without the other to me.
Most batteries or chargers don't have a temperature sensor, this a a feature to look for or perhaps buy a battery with built in heater if your above the snowline. There is nothing inherently wrong with the older gell pack batteries except they can't be charged as quickly. I have to say the newer kings battery should be able to accept more current ,I sure many will end up connected to an alternator.
@@LockyourHubs4WDingmany of these battery types have high temp cut off, but dont have low temp cutoff, even the more expensive varieties. I have seen other reviews where low temp cutoff is claimed but failed when tested.
I think this video proves the reviews we have been seeing, the QR code being scratched out is a little sus but Kings seem to be really good at honouring their warranty and add to that the amount of stores now popping up all over the country means if anything does go wrong you have a lot of places to go.
That's one of the main reasons I own a Toyota, it is the dealer network. There's definitely something to be said for a substantial national dealer network when you have an issue that needs to get sorted out.
Great vid, the fact the QR codes have been removed shows a blatant deception on the part of the manufacturer, kings need to find another supplier and not be part of this deception. Who knows how much life these things have left in them. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, I was not impressed with the QR code issue either, you would think the retailer would want to be as upfront with the customers as possible, considering past indiscretions.
It explains the price though.
@@HardstylePete it does.
They may not only need a new supplier, but they need to lift their own standards at the same time.
Kings staff will be aware of these issues and made decisions based on cost over quality. Also internal construction of battery and cheaper Bms indicates cost over quantity of build won out.
A lot of assemblers also remove identifying codes to make it more difficult to reverse engineer. For example, if you don't know the exact part number or the manufacturer it would make it harder to make counterfeit products by sourcing similar products. So, for example, the assembler may be doing this to prevent their own customers from going around them to buy the components.
All feedback on these blue top batteries seems to very positive. It would pay to keep tabs on these to make sure the quality doesn't drop. For now the value for money seems to be pretty good.
I agree, as you can pick them up for around $500, that's decent for the price. I'll be testing it in a year or so after constant use running the fridge on solar and see how it degrades over time.
@@LockyourHubs4WDinglooking forward to the retest.
I bought one and tested it's capacity and got way more than 120Ah out of it so I am happy and the cells are new like they claim and not dodgy 2nd hand with less capacity so that's very good.
They do seem like a decent thing!
If you're getting more capacity than stated it would be likely they are second hand higher capacity batteries that have degraded a little.
@@turbostyler that's definitely a possibility, though as they've removed the QR codes, there is no way to tell!
@@turbostyler that's one theory but then once again there's no proof, the cells are not swollen from any long use like they always swell up and end up looking like not perfect rectangle after 300+ cycles 😌
@@michaelmedicworldoftanks33fps You're right, we can only speculate. Even if they were second hand good cells from a refurbished battery it wouldn't bother me at that price point. My mate just picked up 2 of them for his boat a week ago and I'm a little jelly and am thinking of converting my lead acid setup to lithium in my canopy.
FYI Kings seems to have changed their supplier it comes in a standard cardboard box rather than the pervious coloured on, and the plastic battery case is slightly taller/ different shape.. who knows if the internals are the same.. I bought a second one in order to run it in parallel
Let's hope it's the same!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I’m waiting on a Victron smart shunt and I will test the capacity at least… I think I may buy another of the new ones though as to not have two different battery’s, lesson learned though, buy them at the same time !
The Victron shunts are great, you can actually connect a VE direct to USB cable directly to your computer and use Victron's software to datalog the discharge.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I didn’t know you could do that, good to know !
Great video mate. What sort of lifespan would you expect from this battery?
LiFePO⁴ batteries should be good for about 10 years.
Great review Simon !
Thanks mate
Great video, I have the blacktop 200AH Kings lithium batteries. According to the kings video on that battery they state that is uses brand new grade A prismatic cells.
It's still working fine, let's hope you get the same run out of your 200Ah that I'm getting from the 120Ah.
The cells looked good with no bloating. More likely 2nd hand Chinese used cells but still with a good AH rate of discharge Remove the BMS and fit JK BMS with Bluetooth and 2A active balance. Could build a cheap 24v set up.Shame the cells are welded tho! Great review thanks
Cells are welded no doubt because it's cheaper at volume. I agree, a decent BMS would go a long way toward improving this battery.
Comment for the algorithm. Thanks for these tests and teardowns. Qld shouldnt be a problem. The $value seems to be ok for this product. Aussie Arvos have used one for a year and a half without issues apparently. Need to make a 24V battery for my (secondhand) Garmin Force trolling motor. I'd love to buy the Rolls Royce of everything but I was gagging at the nearly $4K for the secondhand Garmin unit. My Son had an issue with his Garmin trolling motor and the Garmin guys replaced the contol panel under warranty within days, no questions asked.. I was blown away by the service from the Garmin people and their dealers. Matt Mott from Bass to Barra in Kingaroy deserves a shout out. They're an outstanding operation as well.
It's great to hear when companies do the right thing by their customers. Unfortunately, we usually only hear when they do wrong and not often enough when they do the right thing!
Thanks, Simon, for this video. I actually didn't need a graph to understand what you're talking about in this one, But the QR codes being removed 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
I was thinking how I could make a graph for you in this one mate, sorry I failed! I promise the next will be chock right full of them. :)
note: nickel is also ferromagnetic (busbar material check, so not all ?magnetic? things are steel.) - copper and aluminium of course are not.
Did 4WDSupacentre respond to the temperature protection (or lack of low temp charge protection)
4WDSC claim "A-Grade" cells. - maybe but not new?? needs a response.
(in cold climates, insulating and warming LFP batteries - warm to maintain above freezing - avoids the need to wait for it all to warm up in the morning after a frost.)
Good point about nickel, Supacentre never did return my email inquiry after I supplied them with the batch number of the battery at their request.
I not sure the low temp protection is that big of a deal in our market, though it strikes me as strange as they already have a BMS with the necessary thermocouple probe, that surely implementing the cold protection would simply be a matter of updating the BMS firmware.
Be interesting to see if battery from a different batch, same rating as this one etc, has the QR codes or not.
Narrowing down whether it was an issue with a particular batch, particular shipment, or is actually the norm.
At the moment, it's a guess, and or speculation as to the "why", without enough information to be able to narrow down further.
Great testing process etc you have gone through. A "you test" and we "learn" video. Neat.
Was watching this of theirs, and it does say brand new grade A prismatic cells.
then as you say, grouped and balanced.
maybe the QR code scenario was an issue with that batch/shipment, or who knows.
I had an inquiry from a Kings employee, sent them the batch number and as of now unfortunately hasn't gotten back to me.
I'd be looking at Big Wei batteries with the stainless steel case. Automotive grade cells with Daly or JBD BMS and made in Australia with lifetime service warranty. Not a cheap battery, but a once off reliable purchase.
Big Wei, Custom Lithium etc are definitely great batteries, but that's not the same demographic looking to buy a Kings Lithium or one of their similarly priced competitors.
Only concern is King's after sales service. Thanks for the content. Cheers
There are some reports that it can be a little hot or miss.
@@LockyourHubs4WDingI’ve found their after sales to be good for legitimate complaints.
Great vid. Really enjoyed both parts. Really didn't look like any damage when you cranked the battery up to the 120+amps. Even the welds looked ok. 👍
It looked fine, I agree, so I was pretty happy about that.
Thanks for the excellent review. Does the term "new" battery still hold true if the cells are pre-used? That really disappointed me, I was just ready to buy one of these. How do we know the more expensive ones don't apply this practice - just because they are more expensive doesn't mean they don't. Thanks again.
You're welcome, and you're right, without intact QR codes, you'll never know.
Thanks for the rear down video - glad i saw this before purchase ... ;)
You're welcome!
to be fair to kings i don't think they advertise them as having cold temperature cutoff and the battery did provide more than the rated capacity in the previous test which indicates the cells are good.
so i don't really see any reason not to get one you can fit a cold temperature cutoff from $10 up.
might be a good idea for a video, testing cheap cold temp cutoffs against the $80 victron.
It just struck me as strange that they would go to the trouble of using a BMS with a thermocouple probe, enable the high temp cut off and leave the low temp cut off on the table.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing yes you would think they would have it just to avoid warranty disputes. it would be good to see them either put one in the battery or sell one separately to those that need it.
@@6226superhurricane sounds like a simple programming issue to me. Easy fix.
The BMS can disconnect the battery to prevent damage from over or under temperature.... Taken directly from their website, I questioned them on this when I purchased one a few months ago, got nowhere
@@filthylucre351 yes you're right, last time i checked i didn't see cold temp cut off advertised. they will need to get on top of that. because there would be no dispute when it comes to warranty they said it's protected so any damage from sub zero charging would warranty.
another great review, I did think about Kings last year but went with a company called Top Lithium battery.3x100amp for the camper trailer and are getting charged by my usi-160 by Traxide Tronics ultra smart isolator without a problem.
Great to hear they're working out for you. That's the main thing.
Good review matey and cheers for that. Got two of these although one black top and one blue. Running in parralel on solar charge. You think there would be an issue with the two diffent cells?
There shouldn't be, though you could be limited slightly by the battery with the slightly lower capacity.
Cold temp charge temp disable is not a big deal. Just use DC2DC or solar controllers. With temp monitoring. They cost like 10 Bucks more.(Put the probe on the battery. Not hanging next to the controller. People... I see this alot.)
If the cells are 3000 or 6000 cycles. Who cares? Thats 8 or 16 years of charge and recharge. Once a day.
If you using them in some type of power bank for solar storage. That matters.
The most important thing is the. Advertised capacity, max output and maximum charge input. Are as stated correct
As a camping battery solution. It is more than adequate.
They seem like a decent solution, especially if you're moving from an AGM to your first Lithium battery.
Excellent video! Do you use Victron shunts by any chance? If so, would you consider explaining how to set one up with a lithium battery like this? The settings are very confusing but I have a lot of faith in your methods!! Cheers
I must admit, I'm a bit of a Victron fanboy! For people who like to tinker, their system is great. All my high amperage battery testing is done with a Victron shunt.
Awesome. Would love more victron content sometime. Thanks!!@@LockyourHubs4WDing
Great video, many thanks
You're welcome
I have 2 x 300 ah kings battery systems. My 95L national Luna fridge use 280 amps before cutting out and still 12.7v on Victron 712. For 1249$ on special it’s a no brainer for me. We use no gas and only 240v appliances.
My old system was a 120x itechworld x2 batteries. My fridge cut out at 190 amps used. At 800$ a pop, it was not hard to make the change.
On another not, most 4wd campers don’t use their vehicle the whole time. That battery is probably sitting 80% of the time and idle mode, doing nothing. Can’t see the need spending thousands if the kings can do the same job.
You make a great point, most aren't living full time in their 4WDs or Caravans so for the most part, the Kings gear can make great economic sense.
Good job & review Simon. I think they will have a second sensor for low temp shutoff, not a biggy tho, you can use a 12v pet blanket if needed or a temp sensor & relay to cut charging if this is an issue.
I prefer the prismatic cells to the older pouch variety myself. I would love to see a review on the Kings 200A lithium battery, I recently bought one ($800 on special) and am curious about what BMS and cell type they use in the 200A model, and they claim can be series connected up to 48v which makes these batteries very versatile for connecting 12v, 24v & 48v inverters.
Andy’s off grid garage YT channel has a lot of good info & testing on this battery type & all things solar, he recently assembled his 48v “Frankenstein battery” made up of 280A cells after 2 yrs of hard testing conditions & some bloating etc, they still pulled 278A.
I think the Kings batteries seem like a reasonable option for the price point.
When I removed the BMS from the cell pack, I only saw the one temp probe.
@@LockyourHubs4WDingas an update, I just bought a 2nd Kings 200A lithium battery 1 week later, which has now arrived and has a blue top on it & is about 25mmm-30mm wider than the first battery to arrive that has a black top, it would be very interesting to know/see the difference between these two battery versions. I am guessing that the black top may be pouch cells, while the blue top battery may have updated to a prismatic cell allocation.
I have 12v, 24v & 48v inverters, so I would like 4 of these (at the $800 price specials) they make reasonable economic sense, & are supposed to have the ability to be connected in 4x series for up to 48v, so would be versatile for use between my 12v canopy camper setup and 24v & 48v inverters I run in my other off grid Bus, shed & house setups. I would love to see some real tests done on these Kings Lithium batteries to prove their BMS’s can be 4 x series connected and deliver prolonged reliable current under decent loads.
Active balancing works by taking the excess voltage from a higher cell & transferring it to the lowest cell in the pack & is generally a much higher current up to 5-10A and is a much better method for balancing of larger cells in particularly.
Passive balancing is the most commonly used method probably because it is cheaper in design, it generally trims the voltage of higher cells via resistive load, and accordingly varies from a few milliamperes up to maybe 150 milliamperes depending on many variables built into its design, it works, but is generally too slow to be able to balance cells efficiently, and are probably not really a suitable solution for cells of 100A or more especially if they are being drawn reasonably hard on a daily basis, active balancers are needed at least occasionally to help keep battery cell balance in check.
I have 3 x Seplos ‘Suntorque” 48v 5kwh batteries with passive balancers - 10yr warranty I bought through Commodore last year, 2 of which are failing dismally in under a year, 1 has lost 35% capacity, the 2nd has lost about 25% capacity and the 3rd battery is still at 100% capacity, so I will be seeking a warranty claim on those 2 batteries before long, and I think they are getting up to 240mv out of balance between cells.
I also have 16 x 310A cells hooked up to a JK BMS with 2A active cell balancing for about another 15kwh paralleled to the 15kwh Suntorque bank, which has kept the battery cells within 2-3mv flawlessly on a daily basis. I also have 2 x 24v 5kwh battery banks (paralleled) in a bus up north with JK BMS’s & 2A active balancers which also work great keeping the cells at 2-3mv delta.
Hope I haven’t bored you too much. Cheers
I
Kings have a video about the blacktop 200A lithium battery they sell. In that video they explain that the cells are brand new grade A and are prismatic.@@evil17
Thanks for sharing. Cheers
Glad you liked it!
I run a couple of Renogy batteries with Victron charger and shunt in my van and happy with these. With the Enerdrive inverter and all the extras it's been a bit of an investment. Have also been considering replacing my 4WD under bonnet wet battery with a lithium in the cargo space but will also need a new DCDC charger so the $ start to get up there for just running a fridge. This is now a more budget friendly option.
Bit of a concern with the origin of the cells though.
Sounds like you have a great setup, Victron especially make some quality gear. I was quite surprised about the QR codes as well.
Be interesting to see if the slim version has the same internals just rearranged
Yep, not sure about that one, I haven't even seen one up close yet
Hi , great video, how do you think it would cope on vibrations eg corrugations
It's packed well with plenty of foam, so should be fine.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Have you ever opened up any other brands
Perfect review, thanks again. The lack off low temp shut off and scrubbed qr codes are a downer but for the money, this is a battery I could get behind 👌🍻
The cells certainly looked new, though some shonky wholesalers have also been caught rewrapping them as well. The low temp cut off is probably only an issue for us southerners, though you definitely want to make sure you're not changing the battery in subzero temps.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing -3 here (CW NSW) winters mornings, so definitely could happen 🧐
Excuse my ignorance, but what is the worst that could happen when charging in those colder climate conditions?
I live south of the border as well. 😄
@@colintranter5162 charging LiFePO⁴ cells below 0 degrees C kills the cells permanently.
@LockyourHubs4WDing OK. That's pretty important then!
So, other than tearing down a battery, like you did, there is no way of checking all these factors... pretty muck at their mercy. And even if I bought a high-end brand, it might still have these issues?
Low temperature sensor are a separate one than the high temperature sensor it should have a sensor for each
Why would you use 2? There was only one thermocouple from the BMS.
Would you expect the kings 100ah slimline battery to have the same performance/quality as this one? Would love to see a review on the slimline.
I'm not sure, unfortunately I haven't pulled one apart.
Another good analysis. It really gives me confidence on this battery. Though those rubbed out QR codes are a slight concern.
They sure are an issue for me as well.
Did the BMS have one tem sensor or two?
I have seen plenty that have two... The reason why I ask is maybe the BMS is using the average of the two sensors for it's readings? And therefore -10C wasn't enough to trigger it ? As opposed to the 100°C you tried!
Only the one external probe, as you saw later in the video I completely removed the BMS from the cell pack. Additionally during testing, I managed to get the steel plate to -30C with the probe attached.
According to an electrical engineer from the USA, the packs should also be numbered in series like Packs 1,2,3 and 4. Not 1,3,5 and 7. He also said, there is a problem with the age, like how long were they sitting on a shelf before being used to make a battery. But as you have shown, are they new packs or second hand. Bit of a con job with Lithium batteries and ya take ya chances.
It's not great when they remove the QR codes, it leaves more questions than answers.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Exactly. It's why after lots of research, I decided to stick with my trusty AGM's and they are cheaper to replace.
@@Mrbullet1952
I don't find AGM battery's "trusty"
Heavy poor depth of discharge.... And as far as trusty I have had even very high quality ones just kick the tin
The electrical engineer from the USA is probably getting people to buy insanely high priced battery's and the like to ..
@@MegaRyan123456 He actually tested batteries from Battle Born Batteries and even they were surprised with the results.
Mate could you break down a VoltX battery? Your expertise would be greatly appreciated. Great video legend.
Hmmmm, I would just need to get my hands on one!
Enjoy your videos sounds like the battery is a good one would be possible to look at the kings mppt 40a dcdc charger but implementation to a caravan
Thanks
Ted
If I can get hold of one, no worries!
Once again great video it seems over all for the price you found a diamond in the rough with kings products 😅
Im interested in the victron temperature gauge i have a BMV712 and want to buy a temp gauge can this new gauge synchronise and how can this stop the charge a video on this world be good once again great video 😊
I'm not sure the BMV712 temp gauge can also stop the DCDC from charging, you might have to check with Victron on that one.
Very informative, some over my head but I’ll go by the comments and your opinion, cost of lithium still bit high for my budget, still agm for me for now, probably go kings when $$$ available, appreciate your sharing this 👍👍👍👍
Happy to help! I think other than the cold temp protection, the battery seems like a decent buy.
Some AGM's are even more expensive than the Kings.
@@strikemaster1 full river for instance!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yup mate... Batteries direct are selling the 120 FR AGM bat for $580 and I think Kings Li is cheaper. Same with Victron and Redarc. I do admit however, the FR bat is a good AGM. I had one a few years ago coupled with a Ctek charger, and it never missed a beat.
Kings are selling the 120Ah for $300 today (21/12/23)
Any chance you could do a review on the powertech lithium 120ah from RTM? they are $500 at the moment, wondering if they are any good? I cant find any reviews anywhere.
I've not heard of that battery (though in all fairness, there are probably lots I haven't heard of!)
Unfortunately, I don't have one to test.
@@LockyourHubs4WDingif it helps: RTM is pretty much the same as Jaycar (same parent company I think) - big overlap in stock, same product ids, same design web site.
I'm thinking of getting the 200ah version. They have a black top. Do you know what the cell format is in those?
I fortunately not, I do know the black top 120Ah version had pouch cells though. Though I have seen blue top 200Ah batteries in store advertised with prismatic cells and a higher 200A discharge rating.
The lads from “aussie arvos “ run one these 120 batteries and did a 12 month review note long ago and rated it. Hope over and check them out, that review and this one is what sold me to get the 120 kings battery. As someone else mentioned it’ll sit idle a lot of the time and I’m only running an 80lt dual zone fridge and some led lights plus the water pump,in the camper. 200w solar blanket through a redarc 1240D should see me with cold bevies and fresh tucker for a while 😊
The mark 1 (the one from Aussie Arvos) is a pouch cell battery, other than the branding, it's a completely different battery. Though they seem pretty decent as well.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing cheers, I hadn’t realized the difference but hopefully the mk2 is just as reliable. Love your videos by the way, been a long term follower. Bought the 12v travel buddy and am about to install it with the 15v stepup converter as per your video 😎👍
@@LockyourHubs4WDingthanks, I was wondering about the AArvo’s battery, I thought it was a prismatic cell type, it performed well under test. I prefer the newer prismatic type cells over the pouch calls.
Great stuff again mate. Thanks :)) 👍👏
You're welcome!
Where did you get the 2 amps per mm2 from? I’m designing a power distribution hub and everywhere I read it’s 0.8 amps per mm2 for aluminium and 1.2 amp per mm2 for copper. Seems a bit overkill seen 100mm2 will only do 120 amps in that case.
Admittedly that was your friendly neighbourhood AI, ChatGPT.
I'm suspecting I should have dragged out the 30 year old physics text books from back in the day.
I'll look into it and put any corrections in the description.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing well chat gpt makes more sense logically like 50mm2 can handle 200 amps quite nicely which would be that 4amps per mm2 but as soon as you mention busbars people seem to think you require 1.2 amps per mm2
If it was mounted in the boot could you use this as the starter battery?
Usually LiFePO4 batteries don't really enjoy being alternator charged and much prefer a DCDC charger.
What would be the resting voltage of say a fully charged kings 300 ah lithium battery be ?
The resting voltage should be around 13.6v for any 4S LiFePO⁴ battery.
Hi, i know its been 2 months, but do you have a physical size/dimensions on those cells? As far as i can tell they are CALB cells, just wondering about their dimensions.
Sorry, no.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing All good, thanks!
Good video for the algorithm
Let's hope it's a better video for the viewers!
@Lock your Hubs 4WDing lol it's good for the viewer, comment was for the algorithm and help promote it
Are these batteries ok to lay on there side/back with terminals facing outwards ?
Should be fine, they're not like flooded lead acid batteries.
Hey mate, keen to do a tear down on an iTech?
Would love to, just need to get my hands on one.....
Mate have you considered a uhf antenna comparison.. eg best type for the situation cheap v expensive? Love your stuff by the way
I've always been interested in radio, even since the 27Mhz CB days. I think that would be a great video, the list of videos I want to make is starting to get a bit long, but that's definitely being tacked onto the list.
Lovely stuff
Cheers!
Is there a limit on how many of these batteries I can connect in parallel so that I can run an inverter for longer periods ?
I didn't see anything in the documentation, though there is a warning sticker that when placing batteries in parallel, they must be at the same voltage.
I think 4 is the limit. It's on their Web page.
@@turbostyler thanks for the info!
@@turbostylertheir current web site says 2 parallel, 4 series - also mentions that they need to be the "same batch".
the cells from aliexpress come with the qr code on battery as a few people i know have them.. but them being removed like that is very suspect
I've gotten a couple of eve 280Ah cells have QR codes as well. Though my app unfortunately doesn't read them, I must chase up a better app.
Sure there is not another temp probe? Some bms has 2 temp sensors for some insane reason..
I did search, only the one temp probe.
Can you do the kings 200anh next please ?
If I can get my hands on one, I would love too!
can you measure the dimensions of the individual cells?
Sorry, I didn't.
@@LockyourHubs4WDingno worries cheers mate... useful vid.
seems about 155x155 measuring off the video...
Also - any issues with the BMS once hooked back up? ie a tamper proof (seen some that will shut down if they think they've been messed with). probably gonna crack mine open so I can get them in a smaller case (got 2 of em :P )
@@sn0wchyld The battery seems to be still working fine, no issues with the BMS.
This leads me to now ask…..so what is “the best affordable ” lithium battery ? You had me sold on the first video but being from Vic you lost me on the second video 🥶 ❄️
As a fellow Mexican 😁 and having a small Victron addiction, I'll sort out the temp protection issue with the chargers.
There will never be a "best" just a "best for your use case". Like most things in life....
If you're a Queenslander, and only use low draw equipment, this battery will be ideal, straight out of the box.
I'll be putting this one in the 80, running an Engel 75 combi 24/7 on solar. We'll see in a year how much capacity it has lost.
Oh man, I don’t understand a lot of what you are saying but I brought a kings lithium battery and am sick in my stomach to think yet again I’m talked into buying garbage 😢
In all fairness, the good lady wife tells me the same thing, she has no idea what I'm on about half the time! (Probably for the best ...)
You'll be happy to know mine (the one in the video) is still doing camping duty nearly every other weekend. (It's currently living in a Projecta battery box).
And while I haven't done a follow up capacity test, it seems to be working just fine.
Why didn't you load test the battery to check the capacity? That may have shown up if they were dodgy.
Check out part 1 of the video! th-cam.com/video/bgeho89TXrc/w-d-xo.html
G'day! Any chance you could let me know the batch number of this battery?
As you can appreciate I've done plenty of in-house tear downs and I hadn't come across this...
I'll try track one down for myself!
Cheers,
Cahn
G'day Cahn, shoot us an email at our contact address and I'll send you a photo of the batch number.
Cheers
Simon
You'd be surprised how cold it can get in certain parts of QLD!
Especially the deserts!
@joshuamccabe7729 I've been there many times! I live in Vic. ,but when I was working in Central QLD many years ago it was well below freezing!
@joshuamccabe7729 yeah I'd only been to QLD a couple of times, but when I worked there I had no idea that it actually got that cold! I was near a place called Stanthorpe, that joint is cold af
never watch YOU TUBE averts! turn off and do something else! you are the product
Whilst you're right, it's a double edged sword, without ads, content creators can't create content.
I just bought 2 of these to run in parallel in my 4x4 and the kings dc-dc which has a temp sensor, so it might help in the cold weather.
Maybe you could test the dc-dc (I have the 40A) to see if that works.
You have definitely boosted my confidence in these batteries, thanks.
You're welcome! We've done an install of the older Kings 25a DCDC, though not sure if that model is still available or not.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I don't think that is available as the new ones are lithium compatible.
That's right! I might have to have a look at the new models
I'd love to see this done on a itechworld lithium battery.
I'll happily tear one apart. I installed one in a mate's 200, but he seemed reluctant to let me tear his brand new battery apart! :)
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I ask to see what's inside their battery a couple of years ago at the 4×4 show and was basically told to leave.
I was going to suggest the same thing, I would like to see the 120X teardown and tested properly.
Have anyone here have an idea of the 300 amps from kings?
I haven't yet! Though I wouldn't mind pulling one apart :)
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I think you should my brother I’m about to do a whole system in my 4x4 and been thinking on those but now after this video your shared I wonder. Great informative context mate. Thanks for sharing it. 🙏👍🫡
Needs Bluetooth and a active balancer
Everything is better with Bluetooth!
They will be degraded 150ah cells. Also in your last video if you can see the bms that clearly with thermal cam and the wires on the outside of the box its a lot hotter than the hot temp you read from outside the box which is bad.
I was thinking that might be the case myself, though without the QR codes, who knows!
You get what you pay for!
You certainly do!
Thats bullshit ! How would you know....
Did you say you were Mexican?
Yes! I'm Victorian...... :)
Very dodgy, in having no QR codes on the battery cells provides the question : What are they (manufacturers) hiding? and having the temperature sensor issues. No thanks..
I was pretty disappointed as well.
Was somewhat impressed until I seen the QR codes removed..
And King's still hasn't answered that one....
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Mmmm that's a little concerning. Easier to replace under rated wire as such than it is lithium cells you know nothing about..
Love your videos though man!
This a hobby or are you an auto sparky/electro engineer?
I'm a fully qualified epistemophilic 😁
For $499 on special……. I would buy one …….they’re all made in China now
Most! Well the cells at least anyhow.
So, why do you seem to be amused at strangely unfunny points within your video? I asked Kings about their batteries and how they could state they were A Grade. They initially sent me a spec sheet and then I said that was not what I was looking for. I asked how they knew that their batteries were A Grade cells and their answer was “because if we sold anything else, then we could be sued”. I advised them so, “if your manufacturer told you these were A grade and they turned out not to be, how would you know?” Would you be liable?
They could not answer and no Kings do not make these batteries, they are made on King's behalf by another company.
Well, I watched this video and the last one, this battery has 4 cells in series, sure you mentioned 4 x12 in parallel at some point, and you banged on how the Battery management makes sure each cell is charged to the same level.
There is a flaw in your what you said. Sure the battery management may be looking at each cell, but all it can do is switch on or off the current flow of the battery , cause all negative wires to the BM, come from the same point on the last battery in series , there reason there is 4 wires, cause each electronic switch can only handle a set amount of power so requiring four devices to spread the load.
Yes I have a electronics trade qualification, the fact you didn’t know this, mean you should not be doing any kind of testing and sharing your thoughts, and I bet your getting paid for these reviews by Kings. I wont bother watching any more of your videos and I say to other viewers, to be careful this guy is a stooge !