I Killed the Kings Lithium battery...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2024
- 6 months ago, i purchased a Kings 100ah 12V Lithium battery, i've taken it away on our big 4x4 trip, and well now its dead...
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build your own, would make a great video.
Build a massive one haha
Also would like to see this, just make it all inside a waterproof case this time!
Yeah would love to see that
Would be a sick video idea
Did that, it's almost the same cost as buying one on special.
Kudos to you for being impartial and honest in this video. Most people would have simply blamed the Kings quality for the issue. Respect. ✊ NOTE: Check the lithium battery spec of each brand before buying another one, as not all lithium batteries can be mounted at any which way. Some must be mounted vertical only. The warranty will be void if mounted any other way.
yeah it seemed like there was not alot of protection on the cells on the large flat side he had facing down, this on top of the cells themselves not being supported and just laying flat ontop of one another the bottom cell would of been copping a flogging and getting squished/squeezed when going over large bumps or whoops in the sand on fraser, that on top of the water ingress, even if water did not enter the battery id be surpised if it lasted another 12 months after this trip. stay away from pouch cells when possible for automotive applications imo.
what dictates the orientation of a lithium battery?
As for Aussie Arvo, should be get another Kings, before installing it, waterproof it with, as he said, a bead of silicon around the compartment and the terminals.
Where it was mounted, he had no option?
The padding orientation
He probably had plenty of options,just road testing or in this case thrash testing
You were asking a lot puting it under the vehicle - I'm surprised it didn't get staked as well. When I saw you place the battery in the build video, I wondered how long it would last - not long at all, it turned out. Just get another one and throw it inside. Use that spot for a water tank or something.
Absolutely the right advice! I would add, this time get a LiFePO4 battery - much lower fire risk when mounting inside.
Yeah inside is definitely the ideal way to go, however Liam didnt have the space inside the cab, and didn't want it in the canopy so he could still have the battery on the vehicle for short missions when the canopy is off!
@@BenMitro the battery is LifePo4 but uses pouch instead of prismatic cells same applies to the standard size 100ah kings lifepo4 whereas the 120ah uses prismatic.
@@AussieArvos You could just build a sealed battery box because I don't think lithium batteries need to vent
@@cyclemoto8744 How do you explain 6 cells then? If they were LiFePo4, it would be a 9.6V battery. (3s2p). Packaging doesn't determine the electrochemistry potentials, only chemistry will do that.
just a quick point on this battery regarding configuration. It's configured in 4s2p.2 packs of 4 batteries in series paralleled together. Each pack is nominally 3.2 volts 3.2 x 4 =12.8 volts.
You'd have noticed the single pack had 55aH written on the side of it. Parallel 2 for 110aH.
Fire from a lithium battery resembles that of a mega angry oxy acetylene torch on steroids and the smoke from a lithium fire is really bad due to the toxins in it like cobalt and hydrogen fluoride.
Interesting video, thanks for sharing.
lifepo4 chemistry don't burn or explode like other lithium ion chemistries
@@jamesemery1 They do smoke which is burning... not like a ion battery thou
@@markwright196 "smoke"doesn't mean fire it's off gassing not "burning"
@@jamesemery1 Confirmed, I build my own high capacity packs using 300+Ah LIFePO4 cells. At one point I had few damaged cells from shipping (crush damage) I couldn't use, so I used them for destructive testing. It didn't matter how abusive I was to the cells, shorting with a copper bus bar, over charging, over discharging and cutting into them with an axe, the worst I got was a bit of electrolyte boil off, no smoke/fire or explosion.
@jamesemery5795 given enough of a failure, lifepo⁴ will burn. But as you said. It's not going to be as spectacular as a lipo or li-ion
🤣 Not gonna lie.. That explosion made me jump watchin with surround sound headphones on hahaha
Hahaha I couldn't resist!! 🤣 Sorry!!
I love watching your Farmville videos
🤣🤣🤣wasn’t gonna admit it but me too 🤣🤣🤣
You guys like experimenting, buy another kings slimline $399 and fully incase it in silicone. You only need a few cheap tubes of silicone and make it 5mm thick all the way around, leaving the terminals clear. When it is set put it in the same spot and connect the wires and silicone over them. Just to see how well it lasts. If you put one inside it means rewiring and sealing the floor of the canopy. I have two kings 120ah in parallel and they are great. Keep the great videos coming. 😃👍
If you want to waste more money on Kings batteries, the 100A Slim are in stock $399 on clearance, so they must have a newer model coming, brands are up to you, I would be going up to a 200A so it gives you more options, and mount it inside the canopy.
That was never going to last where it was mounted, even vibration would have killed that eventually. I would just get another Kings one, but the sealed cell type (prismatic). Mount it in the cab or tool box and keep it dry. A few years ago I had a different brand of battery in a battery box in my tray. I thought it was well sealed, however it wasn't and water got in and it must have seeped through the terminals or a joint somewhere. It did take a year to fail though. When it was pulled apart it had lots of individual cells that looked like D size batteries all spot welded with strips of metal in a series parallel arrangement. Anyway the cells all tested evenly, so it all got some WD40 and a brush clean, then a new BMS and it's been running fine INSIDE my tool box for another 3 or 4 years since. Mine get strapped down with lots of foam under them just to keep vibrations down as well. Thanks for pulling it apart to let us see what's inside. And always wear gloves/glasses/PPE when dealing with this sort of stuff, you only get one set of lungs and 2 eyes and they don't grow back.
Were they 18650 cells?
@@ex.perdition No mate, 18650 cells are a bit like big AA batteries. The ones in my battery are like D size batteries.
@@markholly3757 It would have been a 22650, a common size for LiFePO4 cells.
Great video and plenty of questions! I think the days of folks building their own batteries are somewhat over. There seems to be more price parity between the cells and a BMS plus box etc and a finished product, unless you have a special use case or need something quite different to the commercail options. Be good to know whether you think the size etc you had is what you'd go for again? If not, and you don't mind spending a bit more then DIY. It'll be fun and we'll all learn loads!
You could give another Kings battery a go but mount it in a different location, away from the elements 👍
I reckon seal it and mount it in the same location. See what happens. More to be learnt this way
Possibility of burning the ute down if your unlucky though...
@@tiggerrm21 LiFePO4 batteries don't catch fire because they don;t contain Cobalt, if punctured they will smolder inside emit smoke for about 5 minutes but that's about it.
I've built a couple of Lithium Batteries and have just started my 3rd. It's not hard to do. See Andy's videos on Off Grid Garage. Has links to the best places to get the cells and BMS. Pretty crazy opening up that cell, even it being discharged. At least wear some safety gear, gloves and glasses. Love the videos. Cheers
It's interesting to see what's inside the Kings Lithium battery. I currently have a Kings AGM aux battery and 6yrs on, it's still going strong. So I'm seriously considering a Kings Lithium to replace it soon. The explosion b-roll shown as Liam inserted the knife into the cell was priceless. 🤣 Good one boys. 👍
Keep your agm battery for safety reason
Fascinating and scary in equal measures! Thanks for posting - glad you survived and didn't burn down the (awesome) shed!
Great video boys. If you get another kings, maybe run some silicone around the joins before you install ??
One other thing, I would recommend wearing safety classes when you open up the cell just in case.
Great video. You are correct that there is no required mounting orientation for that type of battery technology. Also, the battery probably is “water resistant” as they claim, but of note water resistant is a measure of how much water ingress you can get depending on water pressures applied to the object. If you hit this with high pressure water, e.g. in an under body car wash, or hitting a water crossing at speed, then the water pressure will exceed the water resistance of the packaging. But again, great video, informative and fun to watch!
💯 I’d love to see you build your own battery
It’s very intriguing watching this one
Keep up the good work lads 👍🏽
Definitely be keen to see a custom built one! Great video as always boys!
Be great to see you build a lithium battery. Keep up the good content fellas, love your work.
If you're going to go the route of building your own, you could effectively make it work inside the canopy to not take up a whole lot of room and still make it easy to disconnect when you want to lift the canopy off at any stage, plus it will keep it protected from the elements. Something to consider anyway and would make for an interesting project. 😎
Perfect video to start a good Sunday morning
Get another kings and mount either in the same spot, seal it and see if it does it again or mount upright somwhere and see if it has any issues. I think most people are more interested in seeing how well budget stuff holds up over time. I myself am watching closely as I wanted to do a small kings power system and your battery was the one I was looking at for my car too.
I dont think I could ever trust a home made one 😅
Great video guys. Good to see the battery is basically good and decently made. My Kings 120Ah lithium battery I reviewed a year or so ago is still going strong and I reckon these batteries are excellent value. My buddy bought the 200Ah and rates it highly too. Maybe get another and weatherproof it yourself?
Great to see your budget builds, unlike some of the sponsored channels out there. Throw another Kings battery in there and test it to the limits again for us
Good vid!
Considering how quickly the BMS rusted, I wonder if the underbody carwash recirculates salty water, or if they use fresh water?
If your not running induction cookers and coffee machines, maybe see if you can fit two sealed duel purpose lead acids or agms under the tray - just a thought (have to keep them upright probably)
Interesting video, though the 8 cells are in a 4S2P (4 series 2 parallel ) configuration.
Each pair of cells are in parallel (so the voltage remains the same but the capacity Ah doubles) and those 4 pairs are in series to get the nominal 12.8v.
Each cell should be 3.2v 50Ah .
It would be interesting to see you guys custom build a Lifepo4 battery.
awesome vid once again! i reckon you should build your own cause that would be really good to see, or buy another kings and build a sealed battery box if you mount it under the tray again, thats another awesome thing about lithium, they don't need to vent🥳 so seal her up!😁
Build your own. See Andy from Offgrid Garage in QLD. He has some great recommendations and good testing data. You could quite easily make a 330AH battery. I have recently built myself a 300AH LIFEPO4 battery for my camper trailer. You can also pick a BMS that will give you a better current draw than then kings one.
I agree they could have run silicone around it but I am surprised you didn't do that yourself considering the mounting location.
I would have also used an enclosed mounting box with no top and sealed it with rubber seals against the bottom of the truck tray to fully protect it from the environment and a breather tube like a diff breather.
Great video, you don't try to blame everyone but yourself for the problem though.
We all learn from our mistakes, and I've made a few over the years.
No battery should be strapped on underside of a car. Your failure is self learning. Salt conducts as does moisture. Your honesty shows you understand. Well done.
plenty of evs with a battery pack strapped under the car 😅✌🏻
@@siiioxide7807Yeah they are, in a case. However any dent to one of these cases in a EV is a write off because they need to replace the whole battery.
Thermal runaway can happen that day, days or weeks later.
Thanks for the video. I was contemplating pulling the trigger on one of these exact batteries to mount in almost the exact same location😅 At least I know it'll need a full IP rated enclosure around it now haha don't know if I would trust just siliconing the join
The itechworld slimline battery says its ip67 waterproof. Would be good to see you try that. I liked seeing the battery attached to the car and not canopy, but like many of us having no space in the cab or underbonnet.
awesome stuff guys very very interesting what's in side one of them ... big thumbs up 👍😃👍
First up, a very fair and balanced assessment of the Kings battery. Whilst building your own would be an interesting video, if you want a reliable, Australian made battery, itechworld batteries (and inverter) have severed me well.
Honestly I reckon if you were in Vic all the time and it was mounted under the tray you’d be right but the salt water and under washer in QLD might’ve killed it
Until they get to winter and we have rain for 3 months...
Also, unforseen deep water crossings would kill the battery. (Yes that deep slow moving water)
Apart from where you mounted it there maybe more to orientation than you think. You should take a look at Tim Bates 4wd adventures and see his vid on his experience on mounting slim line lithium horizontally. Went through 2 batteries in 11 months and they were mounted under back seat. Keep up the great content. Really enjoyed your trip up north.
Please explain your rooftop tent , I just saw you stored in the back of you truck . Is your tent on the ground or on topmm no of your truck
Very interesting teardown. Would've liked to see you set a cell off.
I'm an ex volunteer firefighter - used to set gas cylinders alight, cars (magnesium wheels are fun) and watched a house burn from a match from inside.
I recon a custom built unit would make for a super awesome episode. I also however reckon checking out the kickass stuff. Mine have been awesome 👍
I’d love to see you build one on the channel 👍
A conversation starter and a half this video is.
I bought a 100AH from custom lithium. They’re based in Brisbane.
The build quality is superior to the budget options I was considering.
I mounted mine behind seat. Weighs 11kg. I’ve had it 12 months now and is used everyday powering a fridge.
go with itech world, ive had great experiences with 2 of there 100ah lithium batteries, also they make slimline one that would go where the kings one was, or super slim ones that would actually fit in the cab of your patrol behind the seats
I have been using a Solarking battery for 3 years now. Relatively cheap. We have it mounted in a cheap plastic battery box and bounced it across the country, shorted it out, overloaded it etc. Not much more $ than a Kings.
Well done 👍✅ very interesting and rare to see a real battery being REALly dismantled.
ATG are good mid-range batteries. Prismatic cells, Bluetooth, good bms and assembled in Aus! I really rate mine.
Would be good to see a battery build with costings too.
I'm 4 years in with a Lifepo4 from ANTPAK in Bayswater. It's been awesome. I think 400 for a 120a lithium. Mounted in my canopy...
Awesome vid guys I would love to see you guys make one
That battery is Lithium Iron Phosphate. It's much more stable than a lithium ion battery in your phone (or anything with Cobalt in the mix). You could probably drill through those cells and everything would be fine. Even if it did catch fire, they don't run away like lithium ion does, it would probably smoke, but as it doesn't produce oxygen as it burns, it's a fairly mild experience and would likely not produce enough heat to burn the adjacent cell.
Their chemical stability is the primary reason they're used in residential applications. Also orientation of the cells/BMS doesn't matter, outside of case construction and water ingress considerations.
Thanks for clarifying Rhyse!
Its not a LiFePo4 - you need 4 cells in series to make a 12V battery with LiFePO4. He had a total of 6 cells at 50AH each, so they are some other Li Ion chemistry arranged as 3s2p to provide 12V @100AH. So catching fire is a definite possibility. I think he said it all when he said "this is why men don't live as long as women"...
That model is sold as lithium iron phosphate
@@BenMitro LiFePO4 is actually the name of the atoms in the molecules that make up the chemical structure of the battery chemistry and nothing to do with the number of cells. Li = Lithium, Fe = Iron, P = Phosphorus, O = Oxygen, 4 = the number of oxygen atoms in the molecule. Similar to water H2O is two hydrogen atoms to one oxygen atom.
A LiFePO4 battery can have as many or as little cells as it needs to achieve the desired power output. There is no hard and fast rule here.
This battery is billed as LiFePO4, so unless Kings are lying and putting in much more expensive and less stable Li Ion cells in their battery, then I think it's safe to assume that it is as presented on the label.
@@BenMitro he counted 8 cells in the pack 4S2P go back and have another look.
Definitely interested in seeing you build your own battery! Could even keep the kings box to trick people 😂
What did you do with the dismantled battery ?
Was the BMS facing the chassis or facing the ground? I wonder if it was facing the chassis if it would not be lying in puddles of water then.
Probably wouldn't matter as the condensation would corrode and short the circuits anyway.
I reckon give the Kings another shot, especially if you were happy with it before it got saturated. I think you might be best to try and put a bead of silicon along the casing where it joins together and maybe put some kind of enclosure around the battery under your tray to try and avoid the same thing happening
Asking a lot of it where you mounted it. Cheers for showing the autopsy though. 😊
Look into the kickass stuff man quality seems to be alot better than the kings stuff ive had both.
can always buy the same battery and just mount it with the bms to the top since you know on which side it is, and maybe drill a small drain plug into the side plug it and after a trip or pressure clean, remove it to drain the bit of water that gets in
can also just put some silicone around the cap when new
I'd love to see you build your own battery. Something different compared to the other channels... I need another battery for my canopy and still weighing up my options in terms of DIY or buy premade. Not affiliate whatsoever but have bought a battery from them. Oz company with 0 negative feedback selling lifepo4 batteries which I suggest checking out if you don't build your own: ATG batteries in WA (free delivery for purchase in addition for warranty returns should an issue occur). Cheers
Buy same or similar battery. Drill holes in side to fill up with spray-foam. Make sure to silicone attached leads to hinder rust, even if stainless steel bolts and copper lug arrangement.
Bloody lucky mate.. thank God it didn't catch fire or blast on ya.
suggest since in the area go to Pakenham and get a power Paul battery at least has a 180ah in slim and has active balancer and Bluetooth to know what's going on with the cells and the bms
My ute came with the same size AGM in the position. Now that was fun to remove without a hoist.
It would be interesting to see if you can make the kings case waterproof. Whilst you have it and its empty, you could try seal it up and even vac pressure test.
Get another kings and build a better box enclosure around it.
How do you dispose of the used lithium batterie?
Time for a all spark IP68 rated lifepo4 battery from offroad living 😊❤️ ahaha, good video tho i was curious as to how long it was gonna last and how they were made
I reckon build your own battery, either with pre-made prismatic, or 18650’s?
Or go with another kings, I’m sure Patty can vouch for them by now given the price, it also went for 399 yesterday.
Suits the theme of the channel more, budget, DIY style.
Considering you've already knocked up a decent mount for it, I'd probably just buy another one and seal it with something like Sikaflex 227. Also it may not hurt to add a (padded) air gap between the battery and the tray so you can flush all the dirt/sand out, just for rust prevention reasons.
Was there moisture inside the battery when you opened it up??
You could get more capacity in a smaller footprint by building ur own inside the canopy, if you do go this route I would suggest a JK BMS.
Also do you realise you do still have 4 good 52A cells you could use to make a smaller portable battery as a spare.
Haven't watched to the end yet, but the LiFePO4 cells I use only die from two scenarios. 1. Severe over voltage at a cell level either by imbalance or overall over voltage. I lost 8 headway 38120HP cells this way from a pack of 16 in 4s4p configuration used as a starting bank on our boat, alternator was charging at 18.6V well over the 14.6 max for 4S LiFePO4 and a salt water damaged balance board (no BMS for me due to 1000+ Amperes). 2. Reverse current discharging them below zero, only through imbalance. Lost a few that way to headlights left on and balance board couldn't keep up. I have discharged mine to zero and left them there for MONTHS and just charged them back up, still performing like champs after years and multiple to-zero discharges. YMMV with other packs, though. Just got 4 150Ah prismatic cells from China for 735nzd shipped (cheaper to Aus) and it's going into a 550kg 1.3m wide kei car as a starting and accessory battery that will allow me to run radio or lights for days and still start easily. Going to do the same for our 100 series landcruiser but 200 to 300Ah cells, 8 of, turn it into a giant powerbank/solar generator on wheels.
That was a great episode mate very interesting
As an FYI regarding lithium battery fires, it's not a matter of water getting to the lithium that creates the fire it's when there is a defect (naturally occuring or puncture) that creates a short circuit path for the massive stored energy to be released much like a welding arc but with a lot more energy that then makes the defect worse and so on until the stored energy is released.
Water ingress can create shorts when the lithium salts and water combine with the electrodes.
Ternary cells also have a very highly flammable electrolyte. Couple that with self oxidation of the lithium salt, this makes them so susceptible to thermal runaway. LFP cells have a largely non-flammable and non toxic electrolyte.
good test, why didn't you mount it inside?
Interesting that not many of these LiPo4 batteries are waterproof at all. The biggest concern for me is the soft pouches for the cells. I know it would take a pretty hard and pointed whack to get through the case, but once that is breached.... I'd be happy enough to have one in a decent enclosure, but not so sure about mounted under the car.
VOLT-X BLADE no its not waterproof but 100ah with 200amp draw.
Been using mine since 2020 and still going strong.
Itech claim their slimline as waterproof, so presumable it's just a straight swap for the same location. Otherwise I can recommend ATG batteries and Powerpaul, powerpaul have a 175ah that fits in a standard battery box
Not bat fellas. Good starting point for people to understand what's in their batteries.
Kings won't be buying second hand cells but rather seconds, which basically means batteries that fall into B, and C class. These are cells that don't perform as well has manufactured spec but not bad enough to fail. The date sticker will be cell manufacture date before kings get it. The black "stuff" in the cell is the graphite compound which the lithium ions move from while discharging. Only the anode is copper, the cathode is aluminium. The white sheet is the porous insulator.
Buy an AO Lithium 100ah $348 on sale atm. This has a 200A 10sec bms, however, one youtuber ran it @ 200 for the entire discharge cycle. You can easily safely run a 2000w inverter of one of these - you cannot do that with a single kings battery.
And, the AO has bluetooth with onboard current and soc monitoring. For $348 it is a no brainer.
Buy an itechworld battery they are IPF68 rates for place like your underbody - I use them in my 4x4 and Caravan and they work well
Loved the cut to the explosion - well done to the editor - the timing was perfect.
That cell type is prone to kabooms, thankfully you opened a completely flat cell. Also without knowing what electrolyte it is handling its innards with bare hands....very risky. The "reason why women live longer than men" not just the chance of a kaboom, but also blood poisoning....I wonder if any nasties in the cell were absorbed through your skin absorbed into your bloodstream?
Get a kings and seal it with silicone before installing it. Can check the posts too if they are water tight.
Building your own would be an interesting video, but I’ll just say my 120ah Kickass lithium is a fantastic battery, holds charge extremely well and runs all my excessive gear (2 fridges, oven, 2000w inverter) like a champ!
For mobile use I'd always go off the shelf. For staionary use I build my own. BTW you could salvage the 4 good cells, put them in series with a 50amp BMS and voila - you have a 50 amp 12V battery for not a lot of money. You have to have a case - just pad the one you have. You were lucky you didn't start a fire with water ingress in the battery like that. A dead short would not have been pretty.
Great video. Get another one and seal it this time. I think there's more to be learnt for the broader 4wd community rather than building one 😊
a very informative video,im still laughing at Patrick standing back,off camera ,telling you, stick the knife in.whats the worst that could happen.😂😂😂.so saying the battery was good until it wasn't,buy another and mount it in a dry spot.like in canopy, or build a WATERPROOF box for it.i cant see that laying it down would contribute to the demise of the battery.👍
Maybe buy another kings they’re good batteries, I have two but find somewhere safer and out of the weather to mount it?
Go knings again just keep it in a enclosed space haven’t had an issue with my 300amp
Do you think it is worth doing up a patrol like you did cuz I’m not sure
Condensation could be an issue if mounted outside the vehicle,
Just get a std kings, place in a battery box and strap that in your canopy, that way you can easily use it went camping away from the car
I do this all the time
get another Kings battery and put it inside. I have a 200AH and its the bomb. However seeing you make one would be very interesting!
It would be interesting to buy a new one and do your own sealing and see how long it lasts.. this time round..
Would be interesting to see you guys build your own. Can get a bit spenny but would be valuable content for us viewers as it could help us when we build ours
Use VOLTX. I have purchased a 200ah Lithium battery from them and they are excellent for quality and power output. However if your putting the battery outside the vehicle put it in a secure and sealed location where it wont be vibrating a lot and away from water. Next time just seal/protect the lithium battery however I am also not sure how well a lithium battery will go in a sealed environment but should be safer for the battery itself.
Not for that application mounted under the tray exposed to everything, why didn't you seal it?
Nothing are bead of silicone cant fix one of my friends mounted their Red Arc lithium battery in the same way on his D Max and the water got inside and killed it, luckily Red Arc replaced it when he got the new ones he ran a bead of Silicone around all the spots that we thought water could get in and it's been perfect ever since.
So what your saying? If you buy one put silicon around it to protect it from the weather?
Build your own and show us the process. Very interested to see that
Verry informative Thankyou ❤
Looks like it might have vent holes in the blue top panel?
Do you think if you buy another Kings batt and run the silicon bread yourself, that it would prevent the same outcome? If so... do that. You said it was a great battery.
Cheers, dd
Mate I'm no auto sparky but I do have some understanding of 12v all I can say there must be some good protection inside that battery....count your lucky stars that the battery didn't short internally....man your lucky to not have a fire and burn your rig....if you use that particular battery again put it in the canopy because the way you had it installed there would be no insurance....otherwise mate no surprise a battery for the application your after to be installed under the tray will cost some bigger bikies.
i built my own battery and its going good all the parts came to about $600 as of 2 years ago i would deffentaly have a go at making your own as its good to konw what is in the battery
ps dont cheap out on a bms learnt that the hard way