I noticed that in Chrono games you see the word "dream" Dream Team, Dream Project, Dreamstone, Dream Devourer, Dreamseeker, Radical Dreamers, Beginning of a Dream, Dream's End, etc Reminds me of Azathoth, in Cthullhu Mythos all of existence is part of Azathoth's dream... Is everything in Chrono games only the dream of the Entity? Is the name "Crono" a coincidence? when he bumped on the princess? The bell ringing in time, the "accident" with the teleporter that turned it into a Time Machine? coincidence? or did the Entity wanted this all to happen...
The Lucca's sidequest almost made think that it was Lucca from another time/dimension that opened these portals because of the way Robo talked during the sidequest. I remember finding so weird that the red portal was opened right during this sidequest and Lucca kind of "expected" that to happen.
Honestly seems most likely to me. I'm playing through the game now and several times during random dialogue a character or NPC will say things like, "Do you think the Earth is alive?", "Some people say the Earth has a spirit."
This was always how I felt. It dies in the future because of lavos and is having it's flashbacks to the most pivotal moments of it's past that lead to it's future. Edit Explains why the gates close permanently after you've saved it and you can only time travel with the epoch which doesn't require gates and Square has done this other times with games like FF7 where the planet is a conscious entity of sorts.
Man, I always just assumed Schala was responsible for bringing everyone together. It's been a long time since I've played CT, but now I'm curious where I got that notion.
My personal fave is the entity is the collective unconscious of life on the planet. Lavos has steered the evolution of life on the planet, but the entity is the sum of all life, resulting in it being opposed to Lavos, as Lavos ultimately destroys all life on the planet. I don't think the entity is "God" or some deity because Lavos is spaceborne. It came from somewhere else to consume us, and presumably there is more than one Lavos out there consuming planets. Whatever the entity is has to be localized to the planet we fight Lavos back from. Or the entity could be the player, but idk, not as poetic to me
I never thought it was strange the portals appeared and took us to exactly the right place in the right time. This WAS a deep dive into Crono Trigger. Thanks for giving me questions I never knew I needed answers to Ben.
In Chrono Cross, the sequel, we learn that the Entity that wanted them to travel through time was FATE, a supercomputer that took over Chronopolis in a future where the planet was saved and not attacked by Lavos.
I think it's the planet, with it's life flashing before it's eyes and using Chrono to go see it. The entity also interjected at points, like making Marle disappear in the middle ages, saving the Gurus and Janus from Lavos, making the duplicate Janus and Melchior that we meet in Zeal, disappear after the ocean palace fiasco is over.
It's the planet (Gaia), not Schala or God or the player. The localization team for NA actually changed dialogue because they felt it would make religious parents upset to have such blatant Gaia/pagan references. It makes no sense for it to be the player because a first-time player would have no memories of the game's events, making the whole forest scene nonsensical. Schala canonically gives up in the Dream Devourer ending. Square had plenty of other games that invoked Gaia: Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma, FF7, etc. In fact, it's weird to even speculate that Gaia *isn't* in Chrono Trigger! Except, she is. In Japan they are much more amenable to the notion of a living planet because of their historical religions of Shintoism and Buddhism. It really would take English-speaking Western Christians to play this game and come to the conclusion of anything BUT Gaia. Western Christianity (God) and individualism (the player) are just not the message that these Japanese game devs were sending.
The Entity is Norstein Bekkler. He is at the beginning, middle, and hardest ending of the game; watching, waiting, and toying with the characters and player all the while.
An interesting possibility I've heard of is that Lavos itself is the entity. How does that work? Basically, it's a very far future rendition of Lavos who eventually gains further consciousness through all the evolution it has undergone, after devouring the essence of many planets, destroying them to prevent considerable retaliation, and reproducing to repeat the process. Each cycle of this process takes a little over 65 million years plus travel time through space. Given the incredibly vast distances between "goldilocks planets" with a suitable environment and evolving life form DNA to devour, almost no Lavos Spawns will survive this process. Almost all will starve to death somewhere amidst the star ocean of space. Thus the need to generate many prospective Spawns at once. Through it's successors, all previous DNA gathered is carried down to the next successful Lavos. Eventually, some hundreds of millions (or possibly some billions) of years in the very distant future, having devoured most or all that this galaxy (and possibly others) has to offer, a much more evolved Lavos reflects back upon all it's previous lives/ancestry. (Probably one and the same for Lavos.) By this point, Lavos has mastered precise direction of the time distortions which it's predecessors had aimlessly strewn about through it's unique energy signature. (Robo notes Lavos radiating this energy after first reaching the Time Gate created by the Chrono Trigger story's incarnation of Lavos making planetary impact circa 65 million BC.) For the first time, Lavos feels a deep remorse and responsibility for destroying countless lives and planets across time and space. But it cannot stop itself in real time, it's biology is hard-wired to kick in and prevent extinction. How is it to stop itself as well as reverse most of it's atrocities, then? By preventing it's distant past self from surviving. But Lavos cannot do this on it's own. There are limits to the breadth of manifesting in another time through it's concurrent time distortions- going back 65 million years is easy, but potentially 650 million or even 6.5 billion years? Not so easy. (Much like how there are limits to the number of intelligent life forms, either biological or mechanical, who can simultaneously use the Time Gates without incurring an overflow error paradox leading to the End of Time.) However, Lavos CAN precisely alter the fluctuations in previously memorized time distortions for the peruse of others in past time periods. The life cycle which Lavos determined held the most likely success for this plan occurred during Chrono Trigger's story. The precise direction of opened Time Gates (such as the telepod warp mechanism reacting with Marle's Dreamstone-derived pendant to create an exact realtime 600 AD Time Gate) did not occur in the original timeline. Future Lavos altered the direction of newly opened Time Gates at opportune moments, which itself created a new timeline in realtime. This new timeline is conducted through the events of Chrono Trigger. This also explains the paradox of the post-apocalyptic 2300 AD on Earth existing for time travel by the party, even though the events of the game's story should negate it from ever existing. It is not until the party defeats Lavos in this new timeline that the restored Earth of 2300 AD begins to exist. Recall that in the epilogue, the final remaining Time Gate in Leene's Square circa 1000 AD (the first one altered) continues to briefly remain open long enough for the party to return to their respective eras before disappearing forever. The reason for this lull is because just like there was a lag in between history changing for Queen Leene to not be found, resulting in Marle disappearing from existence, there was also a lag in between history changing for Lavos to be killed in an earlier time period before the concurrent Lavos itself ceased to exist. One could surmise this was all instead due to something nebulous like "the Will/Law of the Earth," which apparently might be canon? But is it really the Earth's will for Crono's mother and a bunch of cats to go through the last Time Gate at the last moment? Or for Crono and Marle to suddenly be put in grave danger by propelling them into the upper atmosphere with balloons and the wind? No, that would be erroneous. In fact, leaving the Epoch intact itself would be fairly erroneous on the Earth's part. Someone with ill intent could eventually misuse it to cause destruction on the level of Lavos. Thus, this possibility being left open is an anomaly not reasonably accounted for. The only endings which could thus make sense for the canon of "the Earth's Will" is one of the two where Epoch is used to ram through Lavos' exterior shell. Which means not completing the Black Omen dungeon that is needed to satisfy the requirements for New Game +, since doing so leaves the Lavos shell exterior exposed for entry up to circa 1999 AD. (And it would make no sense to ram through with Epoch if the exterior shell Lavos organ is destroyed, since that organ never regenerates in subsequent parts of the same timeline sequence.) If one were to further tie this into Chrono Cross, then the one remaining ending where "Earth's Will" is canon makes sense is the ending where you don't revive Crono with the Time Egg, and do use Epoch to ram the outer shell. Interestingly, this is the one where Lucca does not mention the "greater force" wanting the party to experience the story's events. It's notable in that Lucca somehow invents an alternative time travel process using the telepod without using Lavos-derived Time Gates or the Epoch, and the Lavos-based limitations on 4+ party members with this method. Marle is then carried by the wind with the balloons to the World Tree at the peak of Death Peak when the Time Egg is presumably used and Marle runs toward the silhouette of Crono walking through a mysterious navy blue shroud. That was all way too damn long, but there you go!
In this "Future Lavos is the entity" theory, the main version of the Beyond Time (not variant) ending seems to make the most sense. Lavos sets motions into place which encourage the Epoch remaining in humanity's hands, in case they need to deal with an unaccounted for Lavos Spawn. This also means the Black Omen is cleared, and New Game + is unlocked, which sets the story's events in motion again with a greater chance of success. The Earth would not risk putting itself through destruction multiple times. There's no reason for the Earth to make it's saviors stronger once the danger has passed; whereas a Future Lavos entity's interests are to increase the party's power and have it be passed down so another possible surviving Lavos cannot cause the destruction done in it's original timeline. "Future Lavos is the entity" also makes more sense for how the red Time Gate appears in the Fiona's Forest sidequest. Lucca's mother Lara not being crippled is not relevant to ensuring the planet's survival. However, Lucca's psychological state & Robo gaining understanding of the entity is important to contributing toward ensuring Lavos' destruction. Which seems like the same goal, but the Earth can be preserved just fine without saving Lara. Whereas it contributes toward destroying Lavos multiple times over.
I know it's old, but it's a very beautiful theory. I like it. But the theory that the entity is The Planet has just stuck to me like glue, and it just makes too much sense to me. Also, I tend to think of Lavos is ultimately a parasitic form and, however long it lives, it's still a parasite, and will remain as one.
i believe the "entity" is the mana beast or the mana fortress since both this game and Secret of Mana have some kind of connection, that being that most of the plot from Chrono Trigger may have been content from Secret of Mana's, therefore the content was cut out from SoM to save on memory space, plus i also learned that some plot devices might have a bit of FFIV in it
During the campfire sequence, they do talk about what it looks like when someone's life flashes before their eyes when they die and think it was as if something wanted them to see all these things. The planet in the game is just set to slowly rot and crumble into dust after all
I always thought that the only entity to be able to do that is Gaspar. Since he's the one at the end of time. I'm pretty sure he was able to travel anytime in te world entering the portals but he knew he wasnt the right person to do it. The game is all about time travel and Gaspar IS the Guru of time.
I just figured it was Schala is whole time, didn't know that was lame lol I don't think it's the "player", because we didn't put the portals there. It's either the Dev's, Earth/Destiny itself or Schala imo.
No. The big Imperfect Cell looking creature inside of Lavos’ shell is more like a defense mechanism for Lavos interior. And the final form after that seems to be a culmination of all the DNA and power Lavos has accumulated over its time on the planet.
No, that's just Lavos. You fight the outer shell, then you fight this weird mech defense, and finally you get to the center of the lavos tootsie pop to give him his third and final lick.
I feel like it might be the old man at The End Of Time. He's very mysterious and it isn't really explained who- or what- he is. He really reminds me of the all-knowing vague mentor character you see in fantasy sometimes. Maybe he's a divine being? Maybe he's some kind of puppet for them? That's my guess.
His identity is explained at the Ocean Palace and subsequent revisit to the End of Time after the big Ocean Palace event. His identity isn't a mystery, it's fully revealed in the game dialogue.
I always thought it was the Earth. Also, in most time periods you meet a member of the Leene bloodline. Your first real quest in the game is that you save Marle's ancestor. So not only does the planet see Lavos as an existential threat that must be defeated and pushes you towards assembling a particular group of heroes to accomplish this task, but it sees the Leene bloodline as one that must be preserved in the future. The one lingering thread across Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross is that Magus is never reunited with Schala. Magus wants to save Schala at the end of Chrono Trigger, and saving Schala is the ultimate goal of Chrono Cross, but Magus and Schala never meet.
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I think there is a temporal paradox that resulted from Lucca inventing a time machine. It is possible that the are multiple Lucca's adjusting the time sequences causing the present day characters to appear in the proper locations at the proper time. Lavos could also have been created from the errors in time travel.
My first immediate thought is, it's Crono. He dies, in proximity to a literal time god. Revived or not, in the infinity of the cosmos death, even for a fraction of a second is kissing eternity.
It would be interesting if the the entity is the Chrono in the moment of his death. "life passes you by at the moment of your death" A variant of magic seems to be the usage of your dreams (subconscious) as shown in the city of Enhasa. In the moment of his death a lot of energy and magic is used and released. Lavos, Zeal&Schala and the "Dreamstone entities"(Masamume Spirits, Pendant, Mammon Machine - Gaia?) all together cause chaos. Zeal says she wants to curse us so that we are forever a part of Lavos. This Chrono in the moment of his death, captured in time and space, helps us and wants us to try again and again until we beat Lavos.
maann, i really love when i see people talking about my favourite game, i literally use "crono" as a nickname in all my games and accounts. honestly the best game ever, the queen of RPGs...
I personally think the entity should have been lavos, it would make sense. It's Ascension being that has had tens of millions of years to reflect on what it was doing. Make sense it might be conflicted in having a moral dilemma it wants to settle, play picking people from across history, in order to give humanity a Fighting Chance. Thus, resolving the conflicted nature it has within itself about what it is doing. This would have made the plot a whole lot better and if they ever remake Chrono trigger, they should go this route.
The entity is the planet itself. I do believe it didn't want to be destroyed it was abundant it wanted to continue to facilitate life. These themes are even cracked down harder on in Final Fantasy VII as the end of that game poses the question if humans really are harmful to the planet and if we are even necessary in the planets plan. Chron Cross really hits on this, but I think the nail that seals all of these connections is Tetsuya Takahashi himself. Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VII, and Xenogears all have a lot in common. There is a "forbidden flame" of knowledge that influences human evolution. There are multiple themes to environmentalism, jungian psychology, and gnostic esoteric knowledge through. All games had a "god" or alien, that had a will different to the planet that fell from outer space. Xenogears is "Deus" FF7 "Jenova" Chrono Trigger "Lavos" all plans are foiled by those who want to see the planet continue creating life. Basically we know around this time it was the time Saga and Takahashi's script was rejected for Final Fantasy VII but parts of were used in various different Square properties, Parasite Eve and Final Fantasy X alongside the other aforementioned games.
I dont think we can rule out the Christian God as a possibility. For one thing, Christianity's theological conception of God (as with classical theism generally) fits with the way the timeless Entity operates to help the players accomplish its overall plan within time, by divine providence turning evil events to serve a greater good than it would have been without them. But more specifically, it is interesting how Crono is killed by Lavos in sacrificing himself to save the rest, only to be resurrected on a mountain with a vision of him arms stretched out over a tree on Death's Peak, by using an egg (think Easter). Additionally, the three gurus of reason are named after the traditional names of the three Magi, and the sin of the kingdom of Zeal is rather like St. Augustine's description of pagan worship as a religion built on seeking to use magic to control the world and exalt the self, in a worship of pride that only truly serves to enslave the user to the devil. And then of course the redemption of Magus from villain to hero companion is rather similar to the conversion of Paul (though of course, not having quite the same purpose). There's some deep spiritual elements going on here. So while it isn't necessarily the Christian God that is being referred to here (in that there is not a "Jesus" figure, per se), they've certainly incorporated some of the same symbolic elements from the traditional understanding of Christianity into the game's events and overall narrative. It actually adds a layer to the game that enriches its value even more.
Schala is the only one who can create time rift. Because she merged with lavos, everytime lavos appear, a time rift appears. She still has control over her mind but gradually faded because lavos takeover. Thats why she open time rift for crono and magus. Its all make senses. The only time rift created by accident is the first rift, because the pendant mysterious origin. How the fuck guardia royal family have schala pendant. Its only one in existence by the way. Marle's pendant is schala's pendant.
What about the Shades from the DS versions? Obviously, they have some kind of connection to the Ghost Children of Crono, Marle, and Lucca in Chrono Cross, but are they related? Or are they also part of the Entity?
Always thought it was an alternative universe Lucca or multiple universes Luccas to get the best outcome.. using chrono trigger logic, they disappeare as their realities are no longer possible
I'm super surprised you guys didn't mention the developers being the entity ..... Im pretty sure its the developers and the writers and or creators of the game You even mentioned one of the characters hinting to it being more than one and it being higher than any one basically in the game could understand so thier (the characters of the game chrono trigger ) creators It would seem very accurate if this was the case square now being square enix would be or have been that entity I absolutely need to go back and play this game again along with ff6 Its been over 20 years since I've played and beat either of these games Now that I'm older I heard there is way more to both these games than I could understand at the time I knew they both was amazing at first sight I fell in love with them both and maximum carnage red addition (the case was red and yes I beat carnage) at the very end you have to play him 2ice and all the main guys at the end of the game its brutal but a lot of secrets in the game that made it easier to beat the end
I figured it out. The Entity is Chrono. He is a silent protagonist, meaning he has stuff to hide. Every decision, especially with the gates, were decided by him. Only when Crono went through the gates did it make a huge impact on the story. And when Crono dies, the game no longer gives you directions on where it wants you to go next, almost as if the entity isnt there anymore.
The Cosmic Egg prophecy is unfolding. Know this and i will be with you brother. It was in front of our faces this whole time. Book of Enoch. Everything. EVERY THING man... Much love. The chrono trigger community saw this coming since the 90s.
Because the time line of the original game only exists in the time crash the FATE computer of that universe caused the gates to appear where they did to ensure its own future in the time line where chrono trigger occurred. At least that is my take.
With the game having a number of other Christian references such as Gaspar, Balthazar and Melchior being named after the three wise men bearing gifts, Lavos being a star falling from the sky and corrupting the hearts and minds of humans much like the Devil, and the whole death/resurrection thing, I always interpreted the entity to be God. Maybe not strictly, but I think the developers deliberately left that open to interpretation for the player.
I think the entity is spekkio the master of war. I think he is manipulating you into destroying lavos the only thing powerful enough to stop time from ending. But I never played Chrono Cross so something in there might destroy my theory.
I always thought it was obvious. It was one of the first RPGs ever where multiple endings based on gameplay decisions were possible - and to this day, still one of the best examples of the execution of this concept - and one of the first to make use of New Game + (a mechanic which lent itself perfectly to the multiple endings/changeable story mechanics) - everything in the game is built around the idea that nothing is static or predetermined, and the player can play it many times and make many different choices, dramatically changing the outcome. Of COURSE it's the player!
Will you guys ever do a deep dive of chrono cross? I saw the game is on sale and i even saw my local retro game store has 1 copy :o I enjoyed playing through trigger but i dont think i would have done it without the game club 👍
Why not the Christian God? To me, it sounded like and as depicted that heavenly beings in the bibles are weird alien looking ethereal beings. No im not offended in some sort but to over simplify the Christian God as a magical man in the sky is outrageous(although thats what's the general consensus among the believers thinks) I find it specially interesting thing God in my religion says to have different concept of time. A day can be a blink of an eye and also a day can be a thousand years to God.
A pet peeve of mine is when youtubers suggest a video or persons content with no link. Especially when it's your own video. Is there a reason youtubers do that? I need to know
I always thought it was Gaia the spirit of the earth (fighting in her own way lavos which is like a cancer )since one of the creatr of this game also made the final fantasy games, that theory is very recurring in every single game he made on top of the final fantasy movies. Earth VS an alien entity like in ff spirit within, cant prove it but i know for sure this is the most likely the case
🙄 it's not a mystery its the planet itself opening the portals, wanting them to help it and themselves or at least see it's memories..... Jesus Christ....
Important update: Here's an answer to this question from the game's writer himself! th-cam.com/video/mrLiIRHSyyM/w-d-xo.html
The entity in chrono trigger is chrono's cat
I noticed that in Chrono games you see the word "dream"
Dream Team, Dream Project, Dreamstone, Dream Devourer, Dreamseeker, Radical Dreamers, Beginning of a Dream, Dream's End, etc
Reminds me of Azathoth, in Cthullhu Mythos all of existence is part of Azathoth's dream...
Is everything in Chrono games only the dream of the Entity? Is the name "Crono" a coincidence? when he bumped on the princess? The bell ringing in time, the "accident" with the teleporter that turned it into a Time Machine? coincidence? or did the Entity wanted this all to happen...
...can someone create a vid?
also in 19,000 Bc in Chrono Trigger, there's an NPC who says something like "truth is in dreams, world is in me"
is entity like the one that pulls the strings
The Lucca's sidequest almost made think that it was Lucca from another time/dimension that opened these portals because of the way Robo talked during the sidequest. I remember finding so weird that the red portal was opened right during this sidequest and Lucca kind of "expected" that to happen.
Lucca is a goddess confirmed
I really like this theory
I think Lucca did something before she go to the past when Marle and Chrollo travel to the past...
I always liked the idea of the Entity being the planet itself.
Like primus of the transformers
Honestly seems most likely to me. I'm playing through the game now and several times during random dialogue a character or NPC will say things like, "Do you think the Earth is alive?", "Some people say the Earth has a spirit."
This was always how I felt. It dies in the future because of lavos and is having it's flashbacks to the most pivotal moments of it's past that lead to it's future.
Edit
Explains why the gates close permanently after you've saved it and you can only time travel with the epoch which doesn't require gates and Square has done this other times with games like FF7 where the planet is a conscious entity of sorts.
It also goes online with a lot of Japanese spiritual concepts.
No that was lame and stupid
Man, I always just assumed Schala was responsible for bringing everyone together. It's been a long time since I've played CT, but now I'm curious where I got that notion.
Probably a combination of Janus's predictions and sending him away knowing the events would play out the way they did
My personal fave is the entity is the collective unconscious of life on the planet. Lavos has steered the evolution of life on the planet, but the entity is the sum of all life, resulting in it being opposed to Lavos, as Lavos ultimately destroys all life on the planet.
I don't think the entity is "God" or some deity because Lavos is spaceborne. It came from somewhere else to consume us, and presumably there is more than one Lavos out there consuming planets. Whatever the entity is has to be localized to the planet we fight Lavos back from.
Or the entity could be the player, but idk, not as poetic to me
Great theory since Dreamstone is a mineral naturally occurring in the earth and it can absorb and subdue Lavos' energy
I never thought it was strange the portals appeared and took us to exactly the right place in the right time. This WAS a deep dive into Crono Trigger. Thanks for giving me questions I never knew I needed answers to Ben.
In Chrono Cross, the sequel, we learn that the Entity that wanted them to travel through time was FATE, a supercomputer that took over Chronopolis in a future where the planet was saved and not attacked by Lavos.
I wouldn’t bring cross’s convoluted story. In chrono trigger the entity is the planet. This has been confirmed by the developers.
Really? Is there a video or article that is translated somewhere?@acmilanshevachels
I never even thought about the entity being anything other than the player…. It always felt that way lol
I think it's the planet, with it's life flashing before it's eyes and using Chrono to go see it. The entity also interjected at points, like making Marle disappear in the middle ages, saving the Gurus and Janus from Lavos, making the duplicate Janus and Melchior that we meet in Zeal, disappear after the ocean palace fiasco is over.
It's the planet (Gaia), not Schala or God or the player. The localization team for NA actually changed dialogue because they felt it would make religious parents upset to have such blatant Gaia/pagan references. It makes no sense for it to be the player because a first-time player would have no memories of the game's events, making the whole forest scene nonsensical. Schala canonically gives up in the Dream Devourer ending. Square had plenty of other games that invoked Gaia: Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma, FF7, etc. In fact, it's weird to even speculate that Gaia *isn't* in Chrono Trigger! Except, she is. In Japan they are much more amenable to the notion of a living planet because of their historical religions of Shintoism and Buddhism. It really would take English-speaking Western Christians to play this game and come to the conclusion of anything BUT Gaia. Western Christianity (God) and individualism (the player) are just not the message that these Japanese game devs were sending.
Clearly the Entity is Johnny, who else would it be?
No, "the entity" are the 4 Magi. Bathazar, Melchior, Gaspar, and Nu. Nu especially, because they exist in all time.
THIS
IS
IT
As a 2d character, a 3d player/dev looking from above is god
So wait if we create a cartoon, game, comic, or movie were like gods?
The Entity is Norstein Bekkler. He is at the beginning, middle, and hardest ending of the game; watching, waiting, and toying with the characters and player all the while.
An interesting possibility I've heard of is that Lavos itself is the entity. How does that work? Basically, it's a very far future rendition of Lavos who eventually gains further consciousness through all the evolution it has undergone, after devouring the essence of many planets, destroying them to prevent considerable retaliation, and reproducing to repeat the process.
Each cycle of this process takes a little over 65 million years plus travel time through space. Given the incredibly vast distances between "goldilocks planets" with a suitable environment and evolving life form DNA to devour, almost no Lavos Spawns will survive this process. Almost all will starve to death somewhere amidst the star ocean of space. Thus the need to generate many prospective Spawns at once. Through it's successors, all previous DNA gathered is carried down to the next successful Lavos.
Eventually, some hundreds of millions (or possibly some billions) of years in the very distant future, having devoured most or all that this galaxy (and possibly others) has to offer, a much more evolved Lavos reflects back upon all it's previous lives/ancestry. (Probably one and the same for Lavos.) By this point, Lavos has mastered precise direction of the time distortions which it's predecessors had aimlessly strewn about through it's unique energy signature. (Robo notes Lavos radiating this energy after first reaching the Time Gate created by the Chrono Trigger story's incarnation of Lavos making planetary impact circa 65 million BC.)
For the first time, Lavos feels a deep remorse and responsibility for destroying countless lives and planets across time and space. But it cannot stop itself in real time, it's biology is hard-wired to kick in and prevent extinction. How is it to stop itself as well as reverse most of it's atrocities, then?
By preventing it's distant past self from surviving.
But Lavos cannot do this on it's own. There are limits to the breadth of manifesting in another time through it's concurrent time distortions- going back 65 million years is easy, but potentially 650 million or even 6.5 billion years? Not so easy. (Much like how there are limits to the number of intelligent life forms, either biological or mechanical, who can simultaneously use the Time Gates without incurring an overflow error paradox leading to the End of Time.) However, Lavos CAN precisely alter the fluctuations in previously memorized time distortions for the peruse of others in past time periods. The life cycle which Lavos determined held the most likely success for this plan occurred during Chrono Trigger's story.
The precise direction of opened Time Gates (such as the telepod warp mechanism reacting with Marle's Dreamstone-derived pendant to create an exact realtime 600 AD Time Gate) did not occur in the original timeline. Future Lavos altered the direction of newly opened Time Gates at opportune moments, which itself created a new timeline in realtime. This new timeline is conducted through the events of Chrono Trigger. This also explains the paradox of the post-apocalyptic 2300 AD on Earth existing for time travel by the party, even though the events of the game's story should negate it from ever existing. It is not until the party defeats Lavos in this new timeline that the restored Earth of 2300 AD begins to exist.
Recall that in the epilogue, the final remaining Time Gate in Leene's Square circa 1000 AD (the first one altered) continues to briefly remain open long enough for the party to return to their respective eras before disappearing forever. The reason for this lull is because just like there was a lag in between history changing for Queen Leene to not be found, resulting in Marle disappearing from existence, there was also a lag in between history changing for Lavos to be killed in an earlier time period before the concurrent Lavos itself ceased to exist.
One could surmise this was all instead due to something nebulous like "the Will/Law of the Earth," which apparently might be canon? But is it really the Earth's will for Crono's mother and a bunch of cats to go through the last Time Gate at the last moment? Or for Crono and Marle to suddenly be put in grave danger by propelling them into the upper atmosphere with balloons and the wind? No, that would be erroneous. In fact, leaving the Epoch intact itself would be fairly erroneous on the Earth's part. Someone with ill intent could eventually misuse it to cause destruction on the level of Lavos. Thus, this possibility being left open is an anomaly not reasonably accounted for.
The only endings which could thus make sense for the canon of "the Earth's Will" is one of the two where Epoch is used to ram through Lavos' exterior shell. Which means not completing the Black Omen dungeon that is needed to satisfy the requirements for New Game +, since doing so leaves the Lavos shell exterior exposed for entry up to circa 1999 AD. (And it would make no sense to ram through with Epoch if the exterior shell Lavos organ is destroyed, since that organ never regenerates in subsequent parts of the same timeline sequence.)
If one were to further tie this into Chrono Cross, then the one remaining ending where "Earth's Will" is canon makes sense is the ending where you don't revive Crono with the Time Egg, and do use Epoch to ram the outer shell. Interestingly, this is the one where Lucca does not mention the "greater force" wanting the party to experience the story's events. It's notable in that Lucca somehow invents an alternative time travel process using the telepod without using Lavos-derived Time Gates or the Epoch, and the Lavos-based limitations on 4+ party members with this method. Marle is then carried by the wind with the balloons to the World Tree at the peak of Death Peak when the Time Egg is presumably used and Marle runs toward the silhouette of Crono walking through a mysterious navy blue shroud.
That was all way too damn long, but there you go!
In this "Future Lavos is the entity" theory, the main version of the Beyond Time (not variant) ending seems to make the most sense. Lavos sets motions into place which encourage the Epoch remaining in humanity's hands, in case they need to deal with an unaccounted for Lavos Spawn. This also means the Black Omen is cleared, and New Game + is unlocked, which sets the story's events in motion again with a greater chance of success.
The Earth would not risk putting itself through destruction multiple times. There's no reason for the Earth to make it's saviors stronger once the danger has passed; whereas a Future Lavos entity's interests are to increase the party's power and have it be passed down so another possible surviving Lavos cannot cause the destruction done in it's original timeline.
"Future Lavos is the entity" also makes more sense for how the red Time Gate appears in the Fiona's Forest sidequest. Lucca's mother Lara not being crippled is not relevant to ensuring the planet's survival. However, Lucca's psychological state & Robo gaining understanding of the entity is important to contributing toward ensuring Lavos' destruction. Which seems like the same goal, but the Earth can be preserved just fine without saving Lara. Whereas it contributes toward destroying Lavos multiple times over.
I know it's old, but it's a very beautiful theory. I like it.
But the theory that the entity is The Planet has just stuck to me like glue, and it just makes too much sense to me.
Also, I tend to think of Lavos is ultimately a parasitic form and, however long it lives, it's still a parasite, and will remain as one.
I always thought the entity could be Fate, something that Chrono Cross explored
Chrono Cross's fate only existed in El Nido and was a creation of Belthasar to orchestrate the events of freeing Schala from the time devourer.
@YTisfullofcucks how DARE you!?
i believe the "entity" is the mana beast or the mana fortress since both this game and Secret of Mana have some kind of connection, that being that most of the plot from Chrono Trigger may have been content from Secret of Mana's, therefore the content was cut out from SoM to save on memory space, plus i also learned that some plot devices might have a bit of FFIV in it
During the campfire sequence, they do talk about what it looks like when someone's life flashes before their eyes when they die and think it was as if something wanted them to see all these things. The planet in the game is just set to slowly rot and crumble into dust after all
I always thought that the only entity to be able to do that is Gaspar. Since he's the one at the end of time. I'm pretty sure he was able to travel anytime in te world entering the portals but he knew he wasnt the right person to do it.
The game is all about time travel and Gaspar IS the Guru of time.
I thought so, too. Who knows?
I just figured it was Schala is whole time, didn't know that was lame lol I don't think it's the "player", because we didn't put the portals there. It's either the Dev's, Earth/Destiny itself or Schala imo.
I have a simple question. Is the Entity the thing you fight inside of Lavos at the end?
No. The big Imperfect Cell looking creature inside of Lavos’ shell is more like a defense mechanism for Lavos interior. And the final form after that seems to be a culmination of all the DNA and power Lavos has accumulated over its time on the planet.
No, that's just Lavos. You fight the outer shell, then you fight this weird mech defense, and finally you get to the center of the lavos tootsie pop to give him his third and final lick.
The player is the entity, all the players reunited to play this single timeless art.
I feel like it might be the old man at The End Of Time. He's very mysterious and it isn't really explained who- or what- he is. He really reminds me of the all-knowing vague mentor character you see in fantasy sometimes. Maybe he's a divine being? Maybe he's some kind of puppet for them? That's my guess.
Gaspar. He lived in the age of antiquity. Lavos sent him and everyone present at the Mammon machine's activation to different time periods.
His identity is explained at the Ocean Palace and subsequent revisit to the End of Time after the big Ocean Palace event. His identity isn't a mystery, it's fully revealed in the game dialogue.
Schala is the entity. She became the Devourer of Time in the DS port
I always thought it was the Earth. Also, in most time periods you meet a member of the Leene bloodline. Your first real quest in the game is that you save Marle's ancestor. So not only does the planet see Lavos as an existential threat that must be defeated and pushes you towards assembling a particular group of heroes to accomplish this task, but it sees the Leene bloodline as one that must be preserved in the future.
The one lingering thread across Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross is that Magus is never reunited with Schala. Magus wants to save Schala at the end of Chrono Trigger, and saving Schala is the ultimate goal of Chrono Cross, but Magus and Schala never meet.
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In my mind as a kid Lavos created portals for those time periods to learn their combat techniques, that's ehy he mimic the bosses.
FATE
Was it not basically confirmed to be the Earth?
I think there is a temporal paradox that resulted from Lucca inventing a time machine. It is possible that the are multiple Lucca's adjusting the time sequences causing the present day characters to appear in the proper locations at the proper time. Lavos could also have been created from the errors in time travel.
My first immediate thought is, it's Crono. He dies, in proximity to a literal time god. Revived or not, in the infinity of the cosmos death, even for a fraction of a second is kissing eternity.
I too forget the epoch doesn't have wings at first every time i play through this game. Which is about every 5 or 6 years.
Entity is that guy with the hat at the end of time. EZ.
I always thought WE were the entity.
It would be interesting if the the entity is the Chrono in the moment of his death.
"life passes you by at the moment of your death"
A variant of magic seems to be the usage of your dreams (subconscious) as shown in the city of Enhasa.
In the moment of his death a lot of energy and magic is used and released. Lavos, Zeal&Schala and the "Dreamstone entities"(Masamume Spirits, Pendant, Mammon Machine - Gaia?) all together cause chaos.
Zeal says she wants to curse us so that we are forever a part of Lavos.
This Chrono in the moment of his death, captured in time and space, helps us and wants us to try again and again until we beat Lavos.
Finding out who the true Entity is should be the leading tie in to Chrono Break!
maann, i really love when i see people talking about my favourite game, i literally use "crono" as a nickname in all my games and accounts. honestly the best game ever, the queen of RPGs...
I personally think the entity should have been lavos, it would make sense. It's Ascension being that has had tens of millions of years to reflect on what it was doing. Make sense it might be conflicted in having a moral dilemma it wants to settle, play picking people from across history, in order to give humanity a Fighting Chance. Thus, resolving the conflicted nature it has within itself about what it is doing.
This would have made the plot a whole lot better and if they ever remake Chrono trigger, they should go this route.
The entity is the planet itself. I do believe it didn't want to be destroyed it was abundant it wanted to continue to facilitate life. These themes are even cracked down harder on in Final Fantasy VII as the end of that game poses the question if humans really are harmful to the planet and if we are even necessary in the planets plan. Chron Cross really hits on this, but I think the nail that seals all of these connections is Tetsuya Takahashi himself. Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VII, and Xenogears all have a lot in common. There is a "forbidden flame" of knowledge that influences human evolution. There are multiple themes to environmentalism, jungian psychology, and gnostic esoteric knowledge through. All games had a "god" or alien, that had a will different to the planet that fell from outer space. Xenogears is "Deus" FF7 "Jenova" Chrono Trigger "Lavos" all plans are foiled by those who want to see the planet continue creating life.
Basically we know around this time it was the time Saga and Takahashi's script was rejected for Final Fantasy VII but parts of were used in various different Square properties, Parasite Eve and Final Fantasy X alongside the other aforementioned games.
hey, just wanted to say thanks for all of your Chrono Trigger videos Ben, also your narating voice is quite amazing
Hey, thanks so much! We appreciate it!
That Palpatine laugh is too soon, Hanson. Too soon!
It was probably the FATE super computor from cross.
I dont think we can rule out the Christian God as a possibility. For one thing, Christianity's theological conception of God (as with classical theism generally) fits with the way the timeless Entity operates to help the players accomplish its overall plan within time, by divine providence turning evil events to serve a greater good than it would have been without them.
But more specifically, it is interesting how Crono is killed by Lavos in sacrificing himself to save the rest, only to be resurrected on a mountain with a vision of him arms stretched out over a tree on Death's Peak, by using an egg (think Easter). Additionally, the three gurus of reason are named after the traditional names of the three Magi, and the sin of the kingdom of Zeal is rather like St. Augustine's description of pagan worship as a religion built on seeking to use magic to control the world and exalt the self, in a worship of pride that only truly serves to enslave the user to the devil. And then of course the redemption of Magus from villain to hero companion is rather similar to the conversion of Paul (though of course, not having quite the same purpose). There's some deep spiritual elements going on here.
So while it isn't necessarily the Christian God that is being referred to here (in that there is not a "Jesus" figure, per se), they've certainly incorporated some of the same symbolic elements from the traditional understanding of Christianity into the game's events and overall narrative. It actually adds a layer to the game that enriches its value even more.
The entity is the player. We made it all happen
Maybe it could be the old man at the end of time.
the entity is FATE from chrono cross
exactly
Schala is the only one who can create time rift. Because she merged with lavos, everytime lavos appear, a time rift appears. She still has control over her mind but gradually faded because lavos takeover. Thats why she open time rift for crono and magus. Its all make senses. The only time rift created by accident is the first rift, because the pendant mysterious origin. How the fuck guardia royal family have schala pendant. Its only one in existence by the way. Marle's pendant is schala's pendant.
Chrono Trigger is light-hearted, but everything in it is deep. Haha. and spiritual
its the game developers themselves right?
i'm so glad i'm not the only one who still pronounces magus like that
How else would it be pronounced?
Maybe they took the existence of God into consideration as possible?
What about the Shades from the DS versions? Obviously, they have some kind of connection to the Ghost Children of Crono, Marle, and Lucca in Chrono Cross, but are they related? Or are they also part of the Entity?
I always thought the entity was the planet.
Did you get your brains back in your ears?!
The entity is the old guy in the end of time.
Always thought it was an alternative universe Lucca or multiple universes Luccas to get the best outcome.. using chrono trigger logic, they disappeare as their realities are no longer possible
I'm super surprised you guys didn't mention the developers being the entity .....
Im pretty sure its the developers and the writers and or creators of the game
You even mentioned one of the characters hinting to it being more than one and it being higher than any one basically in the game could understand so thier (the characters of the game chrono trigger ) creators
It would seem very accurate if this was the case square now being square enix would be or have been that entity
I absolutely need to go back and play this game again along with ff6
Its been over 20 years since I've played and beat either of these games
Now that I'm older I heard there is way more to both these games than I could understand at the time
I knew they both was amazing at first sight I fell in love with them both and maximum carnage red addition (the case was red and yes I beat carnage) at the very end you have to play him 2ice and all the main guys at the end of the game its brutal but a lot of secrets in the game that made it easier to beat the end
The booklet says the entity is the planet. Your welcome!
I figured it out. The Entity is Chrono. He is a silent protagonist, meaning he has stuff to hide. Every decision, especially with the gates, were decided by him. Only when Crono went through the gates did it make a huge impact on the story. And when Crono dies, the game no longer gives you directions on where it wants you to go next, almost as if the entity isnt there anymore.
lavos and jenova came from the same place....
Earth, god, gaia.. Same guy in chrono trigger.
I always thought the entity was the player.
Here's a crazy theory: the game's trying to tell a story. I know, bonkers.
Wait, when did Robo suggest the entity couldn't be one person?
It's gotta be Darryl from FF6.
The Guru of Time is the entity
The Cosmic Egg prophecy is unfolding. Know this and i will be with you brother. It was in front of our faces this whole time. Book of Enoch. Everything. EVERY THING man... Much love. The chrono trigger community saw this coming since the 90s.
Because the time line of the original game only exists in the time crash the FATE computer of that universe caused the gates to appear where they did to ensure its own future in the time line where chrono trigger occurred. At least that is my take.
It's the dream devourer
Akira Toriyama is the entity. RIP
With the game having a number of other Christian references such as Gaspar, Balthazar and Melchior being named after the three wise men bearing gifts, Lavos being a star falling from the sky and corrupting the hearts and minds of humans much like the Devil, and the whole death/resurrection thing, I always interpreted the entity to be God. Maybe not strictly, but I think the developers deliberately left that open to interpretation for the player.
This is head cannon for me, I really like the parallels with the Bible. That said it's probably something like the Planet in FFVII :p
The christian references were added in the translation, the original names had nothing to do with the christian myth.
I think the entity is spekkio the master of war. I think he is manipulating you into destroying lavos the only thing powerful enough to stop time from ending. But I never played Chrono Cross so something in there might destroy my theory.
The player is the entity. I thought this was obvious.
I always thought it was obvious. It was one of the first RPGs ever where multiple endings based on gameplay decisions were possible - and to this day, still one of the best examples of the execution of this concept - and one of the first to make use of New Game + (a mechanic which lent itself perfectly to the multiple endings/changeable story mechanics) - everything in the game is built around the idea that nothing is static or predetermined, and the player can play it many times and make many different choices, dramatically changing the outcome. Of COURSE it's the player!
The truth: The Entity is Nu.
Will you guys ever do a deep dive of chrono cross? I saw the game is on sale and i even saw my local retro game store has 1 copy :o
I enjoyed playing through trigger but i dont think i would have done it without the game club 👍
Paul Sanchez No plans yet, maybe down the road.
Why not the Christian God?
To me, it sounded like and as depicted that heavenly beings in the bibles are weird alien looking ethereal beings.
No im not offended in some sort but to over simplify the Christian God as a magical man in the sky is outrageous(although thats what's the general consensus among the believers thinks)
I find it specially interesting thing God in my religion says to have different concept of time.
A day can be a blink of an eye and also a day can be a thousand years to God.
I like this video. Cool.
And the entity is Pipo.
A pet peeve of mine is when youtubers suggest a video or persons content with no link. Especially when it's your own video. Is there a reason youtubers do that? I need to know
Simple answer. The entity are the developers
Bro!! The way you ended this!
I think the Entity are the Nu's
The entity are the Nu. Because they are everywhere in the game, in every time period. And as we all know, all life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.
If you think of it, it's really Curiosity.
Explain?
The Entity is Lavos, he's the one sending the four gurus to the Middle Age, Present, Future, and End of Time.
So Lavos sent Crono through various time periods to gather the crew that would ultimately defeat him?
Its Chrono from the future
I cant get through the stupid rat chase. Im stuck there for a month 💀
The video game developers lol
It was God
Me: 😑
But not the Christian God
Me: Tell me more 😃
Better yet
The entity is a random nu
Hey now, the least interesting one is actually "The writers." ;)
Yep. Christian God. Could be. lol. Not that Christianity is a big deal in Japan. Sadly.
I always thought it was Gaia the spirit of the earth (fighting in her own way lavos which is like a cancer )since one of the creatr of this game also made the final fantasy games, that theory is very recurring in every single game he made on top of the final fantasy movies. Earth VS an alien entity like in ff spirit within, cant prove it but i know for sure this is the most likely the case
Chrono Trigger is not a light-hearted game at all.
🙄 it's not a mystery its the planet itself opening the portals, wanting them to help it and themselves or at least see it's memories..... Jesus Christ....
The entity is Jesus because he predestined the development & publication of Chrono Trigger.
Bro, CT is not lighthearted.
So, you've just listed a few theories... That's.... it?
It is!👆