Another reason for the pink colour could also be tied to Japan's cherry blossoms and its representation of mortality. Cherry blossoms in Japan, at least from my readings and understanding (I could be completely off, someone correct me if I am), represents human mortality and the fragility of life. So in a way you could use pink to show life and death, the colour of mortals, another mockery of the mortals Zamasu hates so much. Also, its representation of inevitable death is why he has a scythe at one point, the symbol of death in many cultures. It's also why Marluxia in Kingdom Hearts has pink hair, a pink scythe, and has cherry blossoms trail around him like a leaking water bottle.
There's also the fact that red and blue are commonly seen as discordant colours, clashing with each other, so it could be seen as the 'inverse' of SSJG's blue tinted energy. All these aspects really come together as one whole supporting each other aspect, too.
Or maybe it has to do with gold, because the hair color of a SSJ is gold not blond. Rose, blue and even white,green and black are all colors gold can have if mixed and treated right. where blue is a near 50/50 mix of gold and a other metal. Just as SSJ blue is a mix of god ki and SSJ ki. Rose is mix of 75/25 witch could explain why black goku resembled a more evil goku more at that point then his former self.
I love this TFS scene because Goku Black's line is so perfect for evil Goku. It sounds evil, he does something evil right afterwards, but it also has the idiot feeling of Goku.
kyrudo I agree. But at the same time, I don't think it would have fit Goku and Vegeta very much. It is really a colour that just works really well with Goku black in particular.
Mostly, I love the contrast between the dark gray of Goku Black and the Rose of his aura, it kind off remind me of a chocolate cake filled with raspberry ice cream.
To me, Goku Black's voice in his Super Saiyan Rosé form is glorious. It makes him sound like he has a superiority complex. His base form is basically Goku mixed with Doctor Claw.
Technically *any* divine title would net a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan Blue the ability to transform into Super Saiyan Rose. Rose is essentially Blue if the user has the title of a God (IE; Supreme Kai, G.o.D., Kai, etc)
Another potential hidden meaning: apparently the color pink is associated with cherry blossoms, and by extension samurai who died before their time. It could symbolize how Goku Black killed Goku before his time was up.
That association basically makes pink a macho color in Japan, so if you think about it, Goku Black could've gone with Super Saiyan Rosé just because it was the manliest thing he could come up with.
god ki would be the opposite of negetive ki used in dbgt (baby's negetive ball, 17 attack, omega shenron etc).. or chaos ki vs god ki. a combination of random kis in chaotic fashion vs the purest most filtered undisturbed ki
normal ki is raw ki. all materials can be purified to become a better material or diluted to be a new material. negetive ki or pure ki. or chaos ki vs god ki
I just love all the meanings behind the transformations and what it represents. While SSJ up to SSJ3 (Including SSJ Rage) is usually about anger, the God forms are different. SSJG represents the burning passion to fight which is why it's aura is flame like. SSJB represents tranquility and control which the complete opposite of that of the SSJ. Then SSJ Rose which MasakoX just explained.
Gohan should be able to achieve that form too. Would make sense that only half saiyan can achieve it. But i honnestly just think it's deus ex machina. If i'm right it never appeared in the manga. Instead Trunks is a healer (like kibito) not that it's any better..
Super Saiyan Rosè, Blue and Rage really needs more explanation. Blue is kinda easy to forgive since we kinda get the idea but the other two came outta nowhere.
Rose is also pretty easy to get the idea. It's Zamasu's version of Blue, using a dark, more corrupted ki. Rage... Yeah, there needs to be an explanation.
rakmal 786 Well Rose is just blue with pink hair dye, something to do with Zamasu's Ki. Rage (though I really like Super Saiyan Ikari) does need something.
Blue is easy - it's simply SSJ1 with god ki. Rose? This wasn't exactly explained but I think it's simply a SSJ1 form with natural god ki. Goku and Vegeta learned how to use god ki but they're still mortals - meanwhile Zamasu is a god and his ki is natural. Rage? We can see some blue ki inside of its golden aura, most likely Trunks acquired some level of god ki through his training with Vegeta (most of said training wasn't shown on screen) . Vegeta obviously is not Whis, so he couldn't properly teach Trunks how to use it - but apparently through rage something happened. That being said, only Blue was properly explained in the series. But then again, SSJ3 also wasn't properly explained. We just accepted it as a higher form of SSJ.
While roses may have an influence on the meaning of the name, I believe "Rosé" is also a reference to the champagne (they even bluntly leave the little accent on the "e" and add the infliction when pronouncing the name). In Super, most of the new characters are named after alcoholic drinks: Beerus (beer), Champa (champagne), Whis (whiskey), Vados (Calvados), etc. So, it really wouldn't be a stretch to also associate the name to the drink, as well as the roses.
That's a good point, but I see it more as a trend amongst the deities to have a pun for alcoholic names rather than something that applies to a particular kind of god (much like Saiyans have a pun for vegetables). He could have called it, "Rose," but went with Rosé, which is a type of wine, and also happens to be the color of his hair.
Calvados is a French apple cider/spirit. I think they simply took the "Cal" out of "Calvados" like they did "gne" out of "champagne" or "key" out of "whiskey."
Hakaishin names are all alcoholic drink puns. Just like Saiyan names are all vegetable puns. Super Saiyan Rosè doesn't have anything to do with alcoholic puns.
The other meaning this transformation has is that we have Goku BLACK and his transformation is the Super Sayan ROSE (I know its Rosé), getting this all together we have the BLACK ROSE which was mentioned in the video, but what wasnt mentioned is that in Japan the black rose is a symbol directly associated to death, which was what Goku Black spread around the world and his original plan, of killing all NINGEN, what reinforces this "Goku Black is death itself" theory is the fact that he created a scythe, the weapon used by death itself in most of its encarnations and imaginations.
When I 1st heard of a pink ssj I thought it was a stupid idea, but after watching episode 56 and saw the form, I was pretty impressed on how good it looked! That aura thou! It's most definitely Subarashi!!
Actuallly in many cultures pink is considered to be a more violent colour then red , by the virtue of being a colour of freshly sliced meat and inner organs. So... I am not sure that this meaning would be all that offencive to sayan.
I personally love Super Saiyan Rosé! I never would have guess a PINK Super Saiyan would become my second favourite SSJ form! The light pink hair, the light grey eyes, and the dark purple ki aura just works out! It comes together harmoniously!!
I always saw Super Saiyan Rose as less of a corruption of Super Saiyan Blue and more like the opposite side of the coin. While SSJ Blue represented one who had good in their heart, SSJ Rose represented evil, so they're really just the same thing, just with different colors to show the character's alignment, the yin and yang if you will. This is especially true since in fiction, red and blue are often depicted as being opposites, this being no exception.
Thank you so much for not sounding like a dork (it might be the accent). You have no idea how many times I had to stop youtube videos because the guys voice was like nails on a chalkboard. Knowledge is great but presentation is key. Without that, doors will not open. Again, thank you for having the knowledge to educate your fellow nerds, including myself, without sounding like one.
ActionAbe1 This is what happens when you throw something out there and on the merit of your previous work, an audience over analyzes your work and claims it to have more meaning than you ever intended it to. Many seem to overlook the fact that from a design and working standpoint, it's a lot less effort for the artists (Toei production or Toyotaro)to do. Towards the audience it's "impossible" that such a simple design doesn't have deep meaning because the "impossible" would then be that the design... Is nothing special, besides the plain obvious. People never saw the design of SS and thought "Oh this colour is the symbolism of glory and rebirth!" but 2 decades pass and suddenly Toriyama goes, "Goku base, slim, red" and fans look at this thinking it's too plain and underwhelming but wait! "Hold on! His Aura, it's red and glistening with a different flow. It's definitely a representation of passion and fury, or the different fire intensitys given off by my kitchen stove. 10/10". Meanwhile the aura is actually just the byproduct of digital animations advancement since they no longer need to draw Ki powerups on old Cel lines. Later on, Toriyama gets interviewed on why he chose this particular design. He basically says it was to keep things simple and the colour really popped out for him. Fucking plain and simple.
I don't think so. In some cultures, the Black Rose represents death, immorality and revenge. And also a bad seed who was born inside a good garden (just like Zamasu is a evil God on the middle of the kaioshins). And if you look the arc, when Zamasu is first introduced, there's white petals falling from the tree at the side of the tea's table (like they also do on the opening). But when Zamasu starts to question the Gods and why they allow the mortals to do bad things, the petals become pink. Some episodes later, when he is aware and angry about Goku, deciding to do something against the mortals, the petals are red, and when he finally is going to kill Gowasu, the petals become completely black (the exact same color who appears on the opening). It's a small detail, but it really points to Toei/Toriyama doing this conexion between the flower being corrupted and becoming evil/black. Even Black doing a scythe to fight Goku, that many people sees as dumb, shows the connection between Black and death itself.
Marcos Paulo da Silva So while I can appreciate the insight you've provided, I sadly can only dismiss all of it. In the adaptation of Toyotaro's none of those details are added in, keep in mind that him and Toei's production group receives the same manuscript which will always have key scenes and details that he (Toriyama) specifies them to do. The scythe and the petal scene are exclusive only to Toei's adaptation. Which means it wasn't in the manuscript and the scenes were concocted solely by Toei and not the intention of Toriyama. These "symbolic" scenes and moments are no different to how Toei was building up Goku with the Superman archetype. You could maybe argue that the petals required colour to illustrate the connection but you couldn't possibly say that Toyotaro couldn't draw a scythe into Black's hands. Illustrating the petal scene could also be done by just having the colour go from white to gray to black so it isn't impossible, it just wasn't included.
NoBeastLikeMe Sadly it doesn't, Toriyama's works have never really emphasized symbolical meaning in such a manner, the man is more technical in his work and art and only works in the manner of practicality. Can't blame him, he was doing a crazy schedule back in his heyday, so he had to be a minimalist. When speaking on Dragon Ball or any other of his works, regarding his art, he always describes it from a technical aspect. Never really saying anything on deeper or hidden themes of his design or what it signifies, not to the point that the colour of the SS forms represent other elements like fire intensity or different light wave spectrums. That isn't Toriyama's style, at best, he likes to add puns to character names and choose designs that are practical to work with and good enough to look at.
+iTouchin But than doesn't prove the contrary. First, because the manga tends to rush many things, every month and Zamasu was pratically a bad guy from the start, with evil looks and all that. Even Black is just a fusion of Majin Vegeta and Zaiko on his panels. And Toyotaro doesn't really make new things, but takes all the references from Dragon Ball Z. Even repeating some panels with different characters, 8 times in a single manga, like the last one. And even if it was Toei alone who decided to do this (and I never tough otherwise), the Black beign a Super Saiyan Rose, with a history, intentions and name who fix perfectly on the meanings of the Black Rose, is not something to be ignored. Plus, even if Toriyama likes to keep things more simple, it doesn't mean that he doesn't take great inspirations for Dragon Ball. Afterl all, even Son Goku and his journey for the Dragon Ball is openly inspired by the legend of the Monkey God and the Journey to the West. The hakaishins have inspiration from many gods of different cultures. Frieza has inspiration from Alien. Master Roshi's longevity has inspiration from the martial arts ideals for prolonging the life. The history of Goku is inspired by Superman, and his fighting style on Jackie Chan. .. And even Master Roshi's longevity has inspiration from the martial arts ideals of prolonging the life. So even if is something that Toei just decided to explore the best (and for that, they have my congratulations), it doesn't mean that it wasn't Toriyama's idea from the start.
It seems to me that Zamasu says "Utskushi, da ro ?" meaning that he finds the color beautiful (not human, which would be "ningen"). Otherwise, the hidden sense of pink Roses (beauty & joy) and Black roses (change and revolution) make perfectly sense, nice interpretation, MasakoX. =)
Am I the ONLY one that DOESN'T hate the Trunks arc ending? I feel like a lot of people just hate it because popular youtubers do too and they themselves can't form an opinion of their own.
You are not the only, and I agree with you about the youtubers. I think the last episode could be a little more longer (or even 2), but I think it was good. Plus, I think that Zen'o erasing everything was needed to show his powers for this new arc. And Toriyama connecting the ideas from the arcs somehow, is great.
Marcos Paulo da Silva Agreed. All I'd change about that ending is making Vegetto's fight a bit longer, maybe like 3 episodes, then it'd really be one hour long. "Oh they used too much power so defused" is stupid. And they could've used the Super Dragon Balls to restore the future timeline, instead of taking Trunks and Mai to another one. There could even be some episodes of them looking for the Super DBs. That's all though. Trunks defeating Zamasu with the help of the humans was a clever way to make them help in the defeat of the villain that has been terrorizing their lives. And as you said, showing off Zeno's power was smart too.
It objectively had a bad ending ,Toei relied on constant asspulls to wrap things up. I was generally disappointed episode 66+. Also, SSJ rage still needs a valid explanation.
i like trunks arc ending. not every ending should be happy. zamasu wished for immortality and getting cut in half by trunks cant break that. also, that part when gohan gives trunks that sendoff is the most emotional moment in the whole show, i was crying.
Can someone explain why Zamasu, a person who hates humans.... wishes for a human form. Its like a KKK members wishing to be a black person because of the physical attributes black people. It don't make sense.
When you think about even more, the orginal timeline (or earth atleast) was destined for ruin. Frieza comes along and should destroy it bit Trunks comes along. Granted Goku still could've beat Frieza but everyone else would have still died. Also, if Trunks didn't give Goku the medicine for the heart virus he would've died leaving no hope for earth.
I'm so glad you caught the "black rose" thing. I've been saying that since it's reveal but no one ever acknowledged it :/ very refreshing to see you caught it which shows me your dedication to the DB universe :)
Not sure if anyone has commented this yet, but if I recall correctly, Black didn't name himself. He continued to use the name "Son Goku." If I'm not mistaken it was Bulma who gave him the name "Goku Black" to differentiate between this new menace and her late friend.
So about the "black" name and rose thing. Although the in story reason is Bulma referring to him that way, I do believe you are spot on with the "rose" concept as a whole. Neat video!
If anyone remembered the episode before Goku Black transformed, the scene where Zamasu decides observing mortals only is also a sin. There was some explicit imagery of rose petals and their changes as Zamasu really hit his point of no return on his views. I thought it was a really nice prelude to Goku Black's transformation in the following episode.
I think your version would look different and resemble blue’s more simple aura more. I’ve done a lot thinking on a different comment but basically what i came up is that the base version of rose without Zamasu’s influence would probably ave the outline color and outer be the same and the innermost color would be white or the same yellowish color. I would like to explain why but i just got done doing that only for the effort to get erased so, if you ever do respond and I manage to see it I might explain my reasoning.
@@Arichson Id love to know the thought process and reasoning behind this form you came up with. Would it resemble Goku Black’s SSJ form from the manga?
hey Masako just something you might wanna look into in connection for a video. the way the Goku Black arc ends is a fair sum up to how fans feel from the out with the old fashion from Cannon to Non Cannon. with Trunks left a character without a timeline. the Black Rose description you read to me was quite a clever way of justifying or imply some sort of recognition for sore fans that He has commited a form of Mutiny to even if its for the better. the Black Rose to mark that everything we knew of Dragonball is changing or more setting itself to be strongly connected instead of the circumstances that the old cannon and movies caused
You know I always wondered if there plan had been successful what would they have done being the only 2'people in existence in the entire multiverse I'd get so bored if it was just me by myself.
There's also the way goku black and zamasu are on opposite sides of the colour wheel (black and pink, white and green) they make each other POP at the audience when side by side.
The worst part about the ending is that I'm 90% sure that the manga will do the same, it already looks like Toyotaro will finish the arc in the next chapter and I don't think it's Toei's idea to kill everyone
Awesome plot theory! The Grand Priest is Goku Black in disguise who uses the Universal Tournament and influences Zen-oh as a means to carry out his Zero Mortal plan while at the same time, observing Goku's power more and growing stronger from it.
*Bardock Father of Goku ABRIDGED* Freeza: Which wine should I have?? Red wine? White wine? Or dare I say........ ROSE??? Abridged Freeza knew about Rose before it was cool :P :P XD XD XD XD
Calling it. The last hidden meaning of Goku Black and the purpose for having him introduced into the story is FORESHADOWING. With Goku getting so strong and the fact that he IS NOT the savoir that Earth just fights strong guys tells me that he might become the evil that needs to be stopped or at the very least he will see that he is becoming this and stop himself. When will Goku's need to fight be satisfied and will he become so desperate that he is willing to be a villain to get what he wants? Well he has already done this by having the tournament of power to begin with regardless if it was to be erased or not. But when will Goku realize what he is becoming?
XxKhaos VoidxX if goku didn't push the tournament his along with most of the othet universes would've been erased you dumb ass now they all have a chance to survive
I just recently thought up an explanation for Trunks’ new form. Goku and Vegeta got their power Super Saiyan Blue form from training with Beerus, a God of Destruction. However, Trunks trained with Supreme Kai and Elder Kai (who was in the Z Sword), Gods of Creation. What if training around different types of God Ki causes Saiyans to achieve different forms? If so, it makes three forms in the arc more symbolic. Saiyan Ki + God of Destruction Ki = Super Saiyan Blue Saiyan Ki + Kai Ki directly infused into a mortal body = Super Saiyan Rose Saiyan Ki + God of Creation Ki = Whatever Trunks is now
Good video. I would never have thought to analyze Super Saiyan Rose for thematic meaning. I think most people wrote it off as a plot device to make Black strong enough to be a real threat. I know I did.
Pink is also a colour that represents decedents witch goku black had in droves he thought. He liked the finer things. Love your content Masako insightful and with substance >_
The meaning of the black rose blew my mind! It turns out that the rose motif had been there for the character long before the form carrying the name was unveiled!
surprisingly it started out as a fanmade thing Goku Black and the SSJR form where both fanmade hell even evil Goku had a SSJR form on a few pictures that I saw but now it's an actual thing, I still can't get over the fact that both SSJGSSJ Vegito and Evil Goku and SSJR that I thought where never going to be a thing are now actually all a thing, it's crazy but really cool how it played out.
There's also another meaning behind the Black Rose, and that fits Black perfectly: In some cultures, the Black Rose represents death, immorality and revenge. And also a bad seed who was born inside a good garden (just like Zamasu is a evil God on the middle of the kaioshins). And if you look the arc, when Zamasu is first introduced, there's white petals falling from the tree at the side of the tea's table (like they also do on the opening). But when Zamasu starts to question the Gods and why they allow the mortals to do bad things, the petals become pink. Some episodes later, when he is aware and angry about Goku, deciding to do something against the mortals, the petals are red, and when he finally is going to kill Gowasu, the petals become completely black (the exact same color who appears on the opening). It's a small detail but, it really points to Toei/Toriyama doing this conexion between the flower being corrupted and becoming evil/black. Even Black doing a scythe to fight Goku, that many people sees as dumb, shows the connection between Black and death itself.
Remember that old interview with Toriyama when he said he chose Super Saiyan Blue over White because if they had White hair it would be hard to tell them apart from an upcoming villain? White and Pink are two very soft and light colors which could be hard to tell apart at high speeds. Also Fused Zamasu had white hair so they were probably trying to mix things up there as well.
great video masako this discussion has got me thinking is there a way to change the color of the godly energy like zamasu did to make different colors? also those reads about the different colored roses was very well done :D //
I find that the use of his pink aura is more menacing than brolys green. it's a soft hot pink with purple highlights, in a warm warming and calm, but also yet as if it was poisonous. Also with the name, black is usually used as a term for dark in japan. for example, In Super Smash Bros for Wii U, on of the characters, Dark Pit, is named Black Pit in the Japanese version. Great video as always masako.
Masako, I could tell you added some background music to the discussion, but it was only through headphones and some-what high volume. Maybe increase it just a tad? Just some feedback.
Subarashii👏
Subarashii ningen
lmao
Goku Black NINGEN
SOHNNNN GOHKUUHHHHH
Poser I am more darker than you Black !
Another reason for the pink colour could also be tied to Japan's cherry blossoms and its representation of mortality. Cherry blossoms in Japan, at least from my readings and understanding (I could be completely off, someone correct me if I am), represents human mortality and the fragility of life. So in a way you could use pink to show life and death, the colour of mortals, another mockery of the mortals Zamasu hates so much. Also, its representation of inevitable death is why he has a scythe at one point, the symbol of death in many cultures. It's also why Marluxia in Kingdom Hearts has pink hair, a pink scythe, and has cherry blossoms trail around him like a leaking water bottle.
Arsio12 Marluxia is a great example. I always loved his design and general aesthetic.
Arsio12 tbh I just thought it was black rose a symbol of death
There's also the fact that red and blue are commonly seen as discordant colours, clashing with each other, so it could be seen as the 'inverse' of SSJG's blue tinted energy. All these aspects really come together as one whole supporting each other aspect, too.
Dont forget the cherry blosoms when ever we saw Zamasu and gowasu together
Or maybe it has to do with gold, because the hair color of a SSJ is gold not blond. Rose, blue and even white,green and black are all colors gold can have if mixed and treated right. where blue is a near 50/50 mix of gold and a other metal. Just as SSJ blue is a mix of god ki and SSJ ki. Rose is mix of 75/25 witch could explain why black goku resembled a more evil goku more at that point then his former self.
Vegata: How? HOW ARE YOU SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL THAN ME?!
Goku Black: Because, Vegeta, a rose by any other name-(stabs Vegeta)-is still Goku.
Wow a tfs joke,how original.I bet masako never heard of this one!
Soloz Zerker Hey bro, if it's funny, it's funny. Doesn't matter who says it.
I love this TFS scene because Goku Black's line is so perfect for evil Goku. It sounds evil, he does something evil right afterwards, but it also has the idiot feeling of Goku.
we were expecting white goku. instead we got pinkie goku. sakura goku.
Goku Black: you done yet?
goku is the new pink
(goku is the new rose quartz)
Goku: hmm different timeline same result eah best buddy
Anybody else love Rose form way better than Blue? Damn, it's beautiful
kyrudo I agree. But at the same time, I don't think it would have fit Goku and Vegeta very much. It is really a colour that just works really well with Goku black in particular.
Mysterious Stranger If that is indeed the case, forget what I said.
kyrudo Zamasu hijacked another body! Get him!!!
yup
Mostly, I love the contrast between the dark gray of Goku Black and the Rose of his aura, it kind off remind me of a chocolate cake filled with raspberry ice cream.
Goku Black is the only character who made pink to looked badass
Well, Buu did it too.
burgerkingJ more like fat ass
xex A Fat ass that can kick ass, definitely badass.
find my comment😉... welcome
Its not pink its Rose
funfact: if you inverse the color of super saiyan blue, you get rosé and vice versa. Basically it is the anti-super saiyan blue.
Nurse Valentine No. if you invert Blue then you get an orange variation, meanwhile with Rose you'd get a neon green.
Livarax, No. SSB isn't actually blue. The hair is more Cyan. If you inverse it (in photoshop for example), it's changes to Rose Pink. Try it yourself.
super saiyan blue turned into red and rosé blueish
So basically a shiny goku
WGSXFrank I did. It turns into an orange.
To me, Goku Black's voice in his Super Saiyan Rosé form is glorious. It makes him sound like he has a superiority complex. His base form is basically Goku mixed with Doctor Claw.
K.A.W, you just made my day.
K.A.W _ naw it's him trying to make gt canon.
K.A.W _ haha yes that too!
Joshua Street his base form sounds like Sean Schemmel imitating Nuova Shenron's voice
jrpludacrous Also a possibility
Super Saiyan Rosé is awesome. I like it more than SSJ Blue, due to its uniqueness and exclusivity to a certain character.
Goku would be able to get it if he trained enough and became a G.o.D.... So...
Cancerous meme How do you know that?
Falcon me to
Technically *any* divine title would net a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan Blue the ability to transform into Super Saiyan Rose. Rose is essentially Blue if the user has the title of a God (IE; Supreme Kai, G.o.D., Kai, etc)
Another potential hidden meaning: apparently the color pink is associated with cherry blossoms, and by extension samurai who died before their time. It could symbolize how Goku Black killed Goku before his time was up.
Or could symbolize Zamasul fall from grace.
That association basically makes pink a macho color in Japan, so if you think about it, Goku Black could've gone with Super Saiyan Rosé just because it was the manliest thing he could come up with.
This man powered up to Rick Ross level lol ROSE-AY
PMB - I was hoping someone would say that. Good job.
PMB this was funny
god ki would be the opposite of negetive ki used in dbgt (baby's negetive ball, 17 attack, omega shenron etc).. or chaos ki vs god ki. a combination of random kis in chaotic fashion vs the purest most filtered undisturbed ki
normal ki is raw ki. all materials can be purified to become a better material or diluted to be a new material. negetive ki or pure ki. or chaos ki vs god ki
Ayyy wuss good Breeton
I just love all the meanings behind the transformations and what it represents. While SSJ up to SSJ3 (Including SSJ Rage) is usually about anger, the God forms are different. SSJG represents the burning passion to fight which is why it's aura is flame like. SSJB represents tranquility and control which the complete opposite of that of the SSJ. Then SSJ Rose which MasakoX just explained.
And then there's Super Saiyan Rage!...which represents...um...a-anger!...again.
Gohan should be able to achieve that form too. Would make sense that only half saiyan can achieve it. But i honnestly just think it's deus ex machina. If i'm right it never appeared in the manga. Instead Trunks is a healer (like kibito) not that it's any better..
hxcvocalist I wouldn't exactly say Deus machine since Trunks anger came from all the pain Zamasu was causing through his timeline.
Super Saiyan Rosè, Blue and Rage really needs more explanation. Blue is kinda easy to forgive since we kinda get the idea but the other two came outta nowhere.
rakmal 786 SSR is SSB for the Gods, simple. Rage was an asspull and a way to sell merchandise, simple.
Rose is also pretty easy to get the idea. It's Zamasu's version of Blue, using a dark, more corrupted ki. Rage... Yeah, there needs to be an explanation.
rakmal 786 Well Rose is just blue with pink hair dye, something to do with Zamasu's Ki. Rage (though I really like Super Saiyan Ikari) does need something.
Arsio12 no it's zamasu's version of ssj not ssjssb
Blue is easy - it's simply SSJ1 with god ki.
Rose? This wasn't exactly explained but I think it's simply a SSJ1 form with natural god ki. Goku and Vegeta learned how to use god ki but they're still mortals - meanwhile Zamasu is a god and his ki is natural.
Rage? We can see some blue ki inside of its golden aura, most likely Trunks acquired some level of god ki through his training with Vegeta (most of said training wasn't shown on screen) . Vegeta obviously is not Whis, so he couldn't properly teach Trunks how to use it - but apparently through rage something happened.
That being said, only Blue was properly explained in the series. But then again, SSJ3 also wasn't properly explained. We just accepted it as a higher form of SSJ.
"Dark Goku, Nega-Goku, Ukog" Nice TFS reference man!
While roses may have an influence on the meaning of the name, I believe "Rosé" is also a reference to the champagne (they even bluntly leave the little accent on the "e" and add the infliction when pronouncing the name). In Super, most of the new characters are named after alcoholic drinks: Beerus (beer), Champa (champagne), Whis (whiskey), Vados (Calvados), etc. So, it really wouldn't be a stretch to also associate the name to the drink, as well as the roses.
I think those only apply to the G.O.Ds and their angles.
That's a good point, but I see it more as a trend amongst the deities to have a pun for alcoholic names rather than something that applies to a particular kind of god (much like Saiyans have a pun for vegetables). He could have called it, "Rose," but went with Rosé, which is a type of wine, and also happens to be the color of his hair.
Megami Akuhei I am pretty sure that Vados is actually supposed to sound like Vodka, but that's just what I think.
Calvados is a French apple cider/spirit. I think they simply took the "Cal" out of "Calvados" like they did "gne" out of "champagne" or "key" out of "whiskey."
Hakaishin names are all alcoholic drink puns. Just like Saiyan names are all vegetable puns. Super Saiyan Rosè doesn't have anything to do with alcoholic puns.
The other meaning this transformation has is that we have Goku BLACK and his transformation is the Super Sayan ROSE (I know its Rosé), getting this all together we have the BLACK ROSE which was mentioned in the video, but what wasnt mentioned is that in Japan the black rose is a symbol directly associated to death, which was what Goku Black spread around the world and his original plan, of killing all NINGEN, what reinforces this "Goku Black is death itself" theory is the fact that he created a scythe, the weapon used by death itself in most of its encarnations and imaginations.
When I 1st heard of a pink ssj I thought it was a stupid idea, but after watching episode 56 and saw the form, I was pretty impressed on how good it looked! That aura thou! It's most definitely Subarashi!!
Goku in ultra instict kick black gokus ass😂
Actuallly in many cultures pink is considered to be a more violent colour then red , by the virtue of being a colour of freshly sliced meat and inner organs. So... I am not sure that this meaning would be all that offencive to sayan.
My profile picture for the longest time was a Black Rose. Then when we saw Goku Black transform into Rosè I felt like I called it. 2 years in advance.
Toby-Z do you still have the photo?
how old are yu like 10?
i smashed yo grandma says the guy with the name I smashed yo grandma
Hex Gamer hahaha
@@realdeadbeatdad I have a feeling that this is a joke but I'mma still point out that you can't spell and that your name is... that
I personally love Super Saiyan Rosé!
I never would have guess a PINK Super Saiyan would become my second favourite SSJ form!
The light pink hair, the light grey eyes, and the dark purple ki aura just works out! It comes together harmoniously!!
Callum Andrews its my #1 favorite. It looks all sinister with the double aura look. Pink on black. Looks more evil than red and black.
Callum Andrews it does its my fav form
DigiWarriorCallum ikr
Too Much Pink Energy Is Dangerous
Nairot not true
Does anybody else like how ssj rose goku black english voice sounds like in xenoverse 2
Screwhead281 yes
i don't like it. in my opinion it's horrible.
hate it
i hate it because it doesn't fit him. to me the base form voice was a lot better.
i love it because it matches his personality of superiority
2:39 that art/animation/draw call it how you want. Was ABSOLUTELY beautiful. Color grading over his shoulder are simply looking awesome.
I always saw Super Saiyan Rose as less of a corruption of Super Saiyan Blue and more like the opposite side of the coin. While SSJ Blue represented one who had good in their heart, SSJ Rose represented evil, so they're really just the same thing, just with different colors to show the character's alignment, the yin and yang if you will. This is especially true since in fiction, red and blue are often depicted as being opposites, this being no exception.
Masterge77 ssjr is just blacks version of ssb
God _illuminated so how do you become a god?
I enjoy how great the color scheme is with the pinks and purples mixing with his black Kai outfit.
I'm a simpla man... I see Goku Black, i press like
Thank you so much for not sounding like a dork (it might be the accent). You have no idea how many times I had to stop youtube videos because the guys voice was like nails on a chalkboard. Knowledge is great but presentation is key. Without that, doors will not open. Again, thank you for having the knowledge to educate your fellow nerds, including myself, without sounding like one.
THE TRUE DIVINE COLOR😍🌹
As soon as you were going to explain the meaning behind a pink rose or whatever an ad came on. Suspense is killing me.
i bet toriyama just made him pink and called him goku black because it he thought it was cool.
ActionAbe1 This is what happens when you throw something out there and on the merit of your previous work, an audience over analyzes your work and claims it to have more meaning than you ever intended it to.
Many seem to overlook the fact that from a design and working standpoint, it's a lot less effort for the artists (Toei production or Toyotaro)to do. Towards the audience it's "impossible" that such a simple design doesn't have deep meaning because the "impossible" would then be that the design... Is nothing special, besides the plain obvious.
People never saw the design of SS and thought "Oh this colour is the symbolism of glory and rebirth!" but 2 decades pass and suddenly Toriyama goes, "Goku base, slim, red" and fans look at this thinking it's too plain and underwhelming but wait! "Hold on! His Aura, it's red and glistening with a different flow. It's definitely a representation of passion and fury, or the different fire intensitys given off by my kitchen stove. 10/10".
Meanwhile the aura is actually just the byproduct of digital animations advancement since they no longer need to draw Ki powerups on old Cel lines.
Later on, Toriyama gets interviewed on why he chose this particular design. He basically says it was to keep things simple and the colour really popped out for him. Fucking plain and simple.
I don't think so.
In some cultures, the Black Rose represents death, immorality and revenge. And also a bad seed who was born inside a good garden (just like Zamasu is a evil God on the middle of the kaioshins).
And if you look the arc, when Zamasu is first introduced, there's white petals falling from the tree at the side of the tea's table (like they also do on the opening). But when Zamasu starts to question the Gods and why they allow the mortals to do bad things, the petals become pink.
Some episodes later, when he is aware and angry about Goku, deciding to do something against the mortals, the petals are red, and when he finally is going to kill Gowasu, the petals become completely black (the exact same color who appears on the opening).
It's a small detail, but it really points to Toei/Toriyama doing this conexion between the flower being corrupted and becoming evil/black.
Even Black doing a scythe to fight Goku, that many people sees as dumb, shows the connection between Black and death itself.
Marcos Paulo da Silva So while I can appreciate the insight you've provided, I sadly can only dismiss all of it.
In the adaptation of Toyotaro's none of those details are added in, keep in mind that him and Toei's production group receives the same manuscript which will always have key scenes and details that he (Toriyama) specifies them to do.
The scythe and the petal scene are exclusive only to Toei's adaptation. Which means it wasn't in the manuscript and the scenes were concocted solely by Toei and not the intention of Toriyama. These "symbolic" scenes and moments are no different to how Toei was building up Goku with the Superman archetype.
You could maybe argue that the petals required colour to illustrate the connection but you couldn't possibly say that Toyotaro couldn't draw a scythe into Black's hands. Illustrating the petal scene could also be done by just having the colour go from white to gray to black so it isn't impossible, it just wasn't included.
NoBeastLikeMe Sadly it doesn't, Toriyama's works have never really emphasized symbolical meaning in such a manner, the man is more technical in his work and art and only works in the manner of practicality.
Can't blame him, he was doing a crazy schedule back in his heyday, so he had to be a minimalist. When speaking on Dragon Ball or any other of his works, regarding his art, he always describes it from a technical aspect. Never really saying anything on deeper or hidden themes of his design or what it signifies, not to the point that the colour of the SS forms represent other elements like fire intensity or different light wave spectrums. That isn't Toriyama's style, at best, he likes to add puns to character names and choose designs that are practical to work with and good enough to look at.
+iTouchin But than doesn't prove the contrary. First, because the manga tends to rush many things, every month and Zamasu was pratically a bad guy from the start, with evil looks and all that. Even Black is just a fusion of Majin Vegeta and Zaiko on his panels.
And Toyotaro doesn't really make new things, but takes all the references from Dragon Ball Z. Even repeating some panels with different characters, 8 times in a single manga, like the last one.
And even if it was Toei alone who decided to do this (and I never tough otherwise), the Black beign a Super Saiyan Rose, with a history, intentions and name who fix perfectly on the meanings of the Black Rose, is not something to be ignored.
Plus, even if Toriyama likes to keep things more simple, it doesn't mean that he doesn't take great inspirations for Dragon Ball. Afterl all, even Son Goku and his journey for the Dragon Ball is openly inspired by the legend of the Monkey God and the Journey to the West.
The hakaishins have inspiration from many gods of different cultures. Frieza has inspiration from Alien. Master Roshi's longevity has inspiration from the martial arts ideals for prolonging the life. The history of Goku is inspired by Superman, and his fighting style on Jackie Chan. .. And even Master Roshi's longevity has inspiration from the martial arts ideals of prolonging the life.
So even if is something that Toei just decided to explore the best (and for that, they have my congratulations), it doesn't mean that it wasn't Toriyama's idea from the start.
It seems to me that Zamasu says "Utskushi, da ro ?" meaning that he finds the color beautiful (not human, which would be "ningen"). Otherwise, the hidden sense of pink Roses (beauty & joy) and Black roses (change and revolution) make perfectly sense, nice interpretation, MasakoX. =)
Am I the ONLY one that DOESN'T hate the Trunks arc ending? I feel like a lot of people just hate it because popular youtubers do too and they themselves can't form an opinion of their own.
You are not the only, and I agree with you about the youtubers.
I think the last episode could be a little more longer (or even 2), but I think it was good. Plus, I think that Zen'o erasing everything was needed to show his powers for this new arc. And Toriyama connecting the ideas from the arcs somehow, is great.
Marcos Paulo da Silva Agreed. All I'd change about that ending is making Vegetto's fight a bit longer, maybe like 3 episodes, then it'd really be one hour long. "Oh they used too much power so defused" is stupid. And they could've used the Super Dragon Balls to restore the future timeline, instead of taking Trunks and Mai to another one. There could even be some episodes of them looking for the Super DBs. That's all though. Trunks defeating Zamasu with the help of the humans was a clever way to make them help in the defeat of the villain that has been terrorizing their lives. And as you said, showing off Zeno's power was smart too.
It objectively had a bad ending ,Toei relied on constant asspulls to wrap things up. I was generally disappointed episode 66+. Also, SSJ rage still needs a valid explanation.
i like trunks arc ending. not every ending should be happy. zamasu wished for immortality and getting cut in half by trunks cant break that. also, that part when gohan gives trunks that sendoff is the most emotional moment in the whole show, i was crying.
Trovão me!
I was just researching this a day ago and couldn't find any good explanations.
Thank you for uploading this!
Can someone explain why Zamasu, a person who hates humans.... wishes for a human form.
Its like a KKK members wishing to be a black person because of the physical attributes black people. It don't make sense.
Rambo G It's a mockery of his enemy.
He wanted to carry the sins of gods and mortals in his body.
Is a messianic complex.
+Henry T damn, and people say that dragonball has no thought/story behind it. liked.
Along with the other comments here, Goku was the strongest person he knew and even stronger than him, he needed his body.
brings up uncle rukus from boondocks
it's like that but opposite
The dept of akira and his staff is truly spectacular. Roses also blooms only in summer. Which refer to this is his moment and i have grown.
If you think about it, Future Trunks was the original timeline, it wasn't tampered with in anyway it was the true time, and it just died
When you think about even more, the orginal timeline (or earth atleast) was destined for ruin. Frieza comes along and should destroy it bit Trunks comes along. Granted Goku still could've beat Frieza but everyone else would have still died. Also, if Trunks didn't give Goku the medicine for the heart virus he would've died leaving no hope for earth.
I'm so glad you caught the "black rose" thing. I've been saying that since it's reveal but no one ever acknowledged it :/ very refreshing to see you caught it which shows me your dedication to the DB universe :)
Not sure if anyone has commented this yet, but if I recall correctly, Black didn't name himself. He continued to use the name "Son Goku." If I'm not mistaken it was Bulma who gave him the name "Goku Black" to differentiate between this new menace and her late friend.
So about the "black" name and rose thing. Although the in story reason is Bulma referring to him that way, I do believe you are spot on with the "rose" concept as a whole. Neat video!
Akira Toriyama: "Look at the shit I can write and these idiots eat it up" Super saiyan Rose, explained xD
If anyone remembered the episode before Goku Black transformed, the scene where Zamasu decides observing mortals only is also a sin. There was some explicit imagery of rose petals and their changes as Zamasu really hit his point of no return on his views. I thought it was a really nice prelude to Goku Black's transformation in the following episode.
Alright fuck school then I guess
Black Hydra Same
Black Hydra same
Black Hydra yoo
I'm done with school for a couple months
predat0r178 lmaooooo rip. Back to skl
thx Masako for using Saiyan Enigma's badass Theme, his remixes are lit
Rose is my favorite transformation and honestly the one I would want if I was a Super Saiagin
Firstly: Saiyan*
Secondly: Its just a Saiyan, a Super Saiyan is a tranformation
Dency Ribura yeah I love Rose I would say it’s my favorite form
I think your version would look different and resemble blue’s more simple aura more. I’ve done a lot thinking on a different comment but basically what i came up is that the base version of rose without Zamasu’s influence would probably ave the outline color and outer be the same and the innermost color would be white or the same yellowish color. I would like to explain why but i just got done doing that only for the effort to get erased so, if you ever do respond and I manage to see it I might explain my reasoning.
@@Arichson Id love to know the thought process and reasoning behind this form you came up with. Would it resemble Goku Black’s SSJ form from the manga?
hey Masako
just something you might wanna look into in connection for a video.
the way the Goku Black arc ends is a fair sum up to how fans feel from the out with the old fashion from Cannon to Non Cannon. with Trunks left a character without a timeline. the Black Rose description you read to me was quite a clever way of justifying or imply some sort of recognition for sore fans that He has commited a form of Mutiny to even if its for the better.
the Black Rose to mark that everything we knew of Dragonball is changing or more setting itself to be strongly connected instead of the circumstances that the old cannon and movies caused
You know I always wondered if there plan had been successful what would they have done being the only 2'people in existence in the entire multiverse I'd get so bored if it was just me by myself.
bad guys dont think that far ahead
Ryan Nicholson
Technically it was successful. All mortals were obliterated, making Zamasu the only villain to ever succeed at their goal.
I actually love this arc, even the ending
Goku is the new black
S0up3rD0up3r Facepalm😂
S0up3rD0up3r orange is the new black
@@spiritual9574 orange is the new goku
There's also the way goku black and zamasu are on opposite sides of the colour wheel (black and pink, white and green) they make each other POP at the audience when side by side.
The worst part about the ending is that I'm 90% sure that the manga will do the same, it already looks like Toyotaro will finish the arc in the next chapter and I don't think it's Toei's idea to kill everyone
Black rose of death is another meaning behind that form which I absolutely loved.
Best thing in Black Arc?
memes
MrDarkSunshine I would say no it was vegito but no since he now only last 4 minutes -___-
now*
MrDarkSunshine the truth
Hold your fire this man isent black
Awesome plot theory! The Grand Priest is Goku Black in disguise who uses the Universal Tournament and influences Zen-oh as a means to carry out his Zero Mortal plan while at the same time, observing Goku's power more and growing stronger from it.
*Bardock Father of Goku ABRIDGED*
Freeza: Which wine should I have?? Red wine? White wine? Or dare I say........ ROSE???
Abridged Freeza knew about Rose before it was cool :P :P
XD XD XD XD
Great choice of background music. I've been listening to it since it was released a year or so ago. I wish this was his offical song. It's so good!
👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼
Subarashii
Ningen Destroyer sorry... Comment already pinned
Good concept; didn't see much into there being "black" roses, though. Great, Masako, keep it up.
can you do a review of the goku black arc in the manga once its done?
He said he does not want to read the manga. He said he is waiting for it to be completed to read it all in one go.
MasakoX's regular speaking voice is basically what Rose Goku Black's would be like in DBZA
You left out one thing...
MARKETING!
Sp Ghost true
I'm so glad James Marsters is voicing Zamasu since he was the only person who genuinely tried to make evolution good
Subarashii *Clap,Clap* you done my english voice perfect
Great explanation. Also, I love when you add TFS quotes to your videos, MasakoX. :D
Calling it.
The last hidden meaning of Goku Black and the purpose for having him introduced into the story is FORESHADOWING.
With Goku getting so strong and the fact that he IS NOT the savoir that Earth just fights strong guys tells me that he might become the evil that needs to be stopped or at the very least he will see that he is becoming this and stop himself. When will Goku's need to fight be satisfied and will he become so desperate that he is willing to be a villain to get what he wants? Well he has already done this by having the tournament of power to begin with regardless if it was to be erased or not. But when will Goku realize what he is becoming?
XxKhaos VoidxX if goku didn't push the tournament his along with most of the othet universes would've been erased you dumb ass now they all have a chance to survive
I just recently thought up an explanation for Trunks’ new form. Goku and Vegeta got their power Super Saiyan Blue form from training with Beerus, a God of Destruction. However, Trunks trained with Supreme Kai and Elder Kai (who was in the Z Sword), Gods of Creation. What if training around different types of God Ki causes Saiyans to achieve different forms? If so, it makes three forms in the arc more symbolic.
Saiyan Ki + God of Destruction Ki = Super Saiyan Blue
Saiyan Ki + Kai Ki directly infused into a mortal body = Super Saiyan Rose
Saiyan Ki + God of Creation Ki = Whatever Trunks is now
Manga did it better
Good video. I would never have thought to analyze Super Saiyan Rose for thematic meaning. I think most people wrote it off as a plot device to make Black strong enough to be a real threat. I know I did.
This video was beautifully done! Great job sir!
You finally got your “ssj white” as mastered ultra instinct @MasakoX
Pink is also a colour that represents decedents witch goku black had in droves he thought. He liked the finer things. Love your content Masako insightful and with substance >_
I think MasakoX has got Valentine's Day covered.
The meaning of the black rose blew my mind!
It turns out that the rose motif had been there for the character long before the form carrying the name was unveiled!
I like the look of Super Saiyan Rose... personally one of my favourite transformations.
surprisingly it started out as a fanmade thing Goku Black and the SSJR form where both fanmade hell even evil Goku had a SSJR form on a few pictures that I saw but now it's an actual thing, I still can't get over the fact that both SSJGSSJ Vegito and Evil Goku and SSJR that I thought where never going to be a thing are now actually all a thing, it's crazy but really cool how it played out.
well i must say, you've made me appreciate the future trunks arc in super alot more lol. good job
I love the idea of Goku Black telling Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks "Thank you!" for the power
There's also another meaning behind the Black Rose, and that fits Black perfectly:
In some cultures, the Black Rose represents death, immorality and revenge. And also a bad seed who was born inside a good garden (just like Zamasu is a evil God on the middle of the kaioshins).
And if you look the arc, when Zamasu is first introduced, there's white petals falling from the tree at the side of the tea's table (like they also do on the opening). But when Zamasu starts to question the Gods and why they allow the mortals to do bad things, the petals become pink.
Some episodes later, when he is aware and angry about Goku, deciding to do something against the mortals, the petals are red, and when he finally is going to kill Gowasu, the petals become completely black (the exact same color who appears on the opening).
It's a small detail but, it really points to Toei/Toriyama doing this conexion between the flower being corrupted and becoming evil/black.
Even Black doing a scythe to fight Goku, that many people sees as dumb, shows the connection between Black and death itself.
Can't wait to hear Masako do black's voice in abridged!
I thought of the black rose meaning literally as soon as he transformed, how do so many people not notice this?
Remember that old interview with Toriyama when he said he chose Super Saiyan Blue over White because if they had White hair it would be hard to tell them apart from an upcoming villain? White and Pink are two very soft and light colors which could be hard to tell apart at high speeds. Also Fused Zamasu had white hair so they were probably trying to mix things up there as well.
I actually really love this theory. Well done
great video masako this discussion has got me thinking is there a way to change the color of the godly energy like zamasu did to make different colors? also those reads about the different colored roses was very well done :D //
I think you put more thought into this than the own writers
Black's transformation shall be called, from now on, Super Saiyan Fashion
I just noticed that whenever you do a Goku black voice it sounds just like your Ginyu in Goku's body voice.
Been waiting for this one.
I personally adore the form and would love to death to see it again sometime in the future
The flower website reminds me of searching names on urbandictionary. What a fantastic source
Fast forward to DLC Pack 3 of Xenoverse 2 and Masako's Impression of Goku Black is almost spot on to the English Dub.
Also pink and black looks cool together
I find that the use of his pink aura is more menacing than brolys green. it's a soft hot pink with purple highlights, in a warm warming and calm, but also yet as if it was poisonous. Also with the name, black is usually used as a term for dark in japan. for example, In Super Smash Bros for Wii U, on of the characters, Dark Pit, is named Black Pit in the Japanese version. Great video as always masako.
Honestly his aura is more purple than pink and purple+black usually just marks someone as evil.
Also, when you invert the colors of Rosé wine, on Photoshop for example, the color becomes greenish blue
I noticed you can hear EnigmaTNG's Unofficial Goku Black theme in the background very slightly.
Fun fact: SSJR was originally SSB but the colour of the ki has changed of the duct he still was a kai
I saw the stream waiting for this Yass
My IRL friends were upset about Rose Goku Black. But I felt going pink made sense for Zamasu's eloquent demeanor. Now it seems that way even more so.
I also think the name Rosé was chosen as a reference to the Gods Of Destruction as well. Carrying on the theme of them being named after alcohol
I agree. The Super Saiyan Rose form is Zamasu's godly power combined with the power of Goku's body and the Super Saiyan transformation.
Dammit Masako. Now I'll think "Ukog" when I see Goku Black.
Masako, I could tell you added some background music to the discussion, but it was only through headphones and some-what high volume. Maybe increase it just a tad? Just some feedback.
11:06 if you add the hatred towards mortals, that really what Goku Black is...and that's why I LOVE HIM!!!