I'll be honest. Yes, the train is outdated, but compared to many trains in Georgia(Which were produced during the Soviet era), this train is quite comfortable, even though it's slow and it's shaking. I've sat on it many times: there are at least basic things like air conditioning, pretty comfortable seats and sockets.
I had gone to Georgia the exact same time you had. At gori, we visited the Stalin museum. There, we saw Stalin’s own personal train carriage. It was very cool.
I'm sure China rail company will follow your design. My country have a beautiful and modern train from China and our Government is ordering 62 new train from China....
Great video! Little correction : The train was made and introduced in Georgia year 2007/08. It was a great train, hassle free for quite some time, 0 squeaks, but after 15+ years and not much maintenance, at least after Covid, the train does show its age. They have started repairing/renovating these particular trains lately, so probably and hopefully they will get better. P.s Even after 15 years, the seats are much more comfortable, than the Stadler Kiss one we have here for Tbilisi-Batumi route. (Talking about 2nd class). First class seats are also really comfortable in these trains, however Stadler’s seats are indeed better, but not twice as much, like the ticket price difference between the two…
The exact Stadlers were build for Moscow AeroExpress system, they even haven't change upholstery of the seats with AeroExpress logos on it, but later some war and annex happend and Stadler delcine the order. So the seats wasn't meant for something more than a 1.5 hour from Moscow center to one of it's airports.
Nice video - I have lived in Tbilisi nearly 4 years and the set-up at the main railway station always gets me. Dodging traffic when accessing it on foot adds to the fun.,
I traveled on one of those units from Tbilisi to Gori last year and I found it fine and while I was disappointed it was a unit and not a VL Class hauled train (like my return journey) it certainly is a step up from the old Soviet time trains from the perspective of a normal passenger as opposed to my nostalgic anorak bias
I had trip from Tbilisi to Zugdidi last winter. And i was curious about this slightly weird train, not soviet, not modern eu. Thank you for explanation. And return to my trip. Next stage was 4 hours in minibus where you must drink georgian wine because if you refuse, wine would be drinked by bus driver :)). The road was to ski resort Mestia in mountains along cliff after snowstorm :))). Minibus was stacked in snow so 10 men pushed it back :))) Mestia is a great place. Returning was 40 minutes on regional turboprop L-410 with outstanding views.
Soviet trains only serve regional lines and they're ridiculously cheap, starting from 50 tetri to 2GEL. Their purpose is not to be comfortable, they're there for the sake of moving people around. Some examples of these are Tbilisi-Borjomi, Tbilisi-Gardabani, Gori-Nikozi, Kutaisi-Tkibuli, Kutaisi-Tskaltubo, Khashuri-Zestafoni and others.
@@qorrro Yes, I went to Tskaltubo from Kutaisi and even getting tickets for it was a bit confusing. The "central" train station in Kutaisi is renovated and yet feels like 1980 inside. Also, this train goes like 2x per day or something
Service on that route, as well as a lot of others was stopped during the pandemic and currently Kutaisi-Tskaltubo and Kutaisi-Tkibuli still aren't operational 😔
@@windows8.1proforthewin Guess what? People who don't speak your language don't have umlauts on their keyboard and don't know its orthographic conventions. If you ask nicely and educate them, they might write "OeBB". When you come across as a jerk, they'll just ignöre yöu.
Hello Simon, thank you for the nice video and the interesting posts. I'm going on holiday to Georgia soon and will be travelling by train. Can you please explain to me again when you get the chance how you can book your tickets using the Georgian railway app? Thank you very much. Kind regent’s from Berlin Andreas
Hi Andreas, sorry if this is too late now, but the app is straightforward and available in English. Just get it from the App Store; it's called TRE.GE - Railway Tickets. You can pay with Visa and Mastercard. Greetings from Copenhagen
We did the same trip on board of one of the Stadler trains about 3 weeks ago. First and foremost: due to the low ticket fares, the trains sell out very fast. With very few departures per day (2 per direction?) you should reserve your tickets at least 7 days in advance. I was looking forward to the ride but it wasn't too special. We traveled 1st class but I thought them to be crammed and the seats not too comfy. Well, we have the same trains for regional connections at home. Wifi came without internet, the view through the windows was blocked by some blends and the train was really slow due to ancient tracks. We made about 30km/h and at one point we stopped and stood around for about one hour without any of the staff providing an explanation. Georgia seems to have had good rail connections in Soviet times. Like many other things they fell into a decline from 1990 but now it seems as if they are finally investing again...
Then compare this to the trains in Japan. Even the rural ones are smoother and don't squeak as if it's falling apart. And the bathrooms are of course excellent in Japan. That said. Interesting and cool video you made of a obscure train from China
I think this is a very old train, i also saw old soviet trains running in this video. New Chinese bullet trains today are as stable or better and runs faster than japanese train.
@@lanzortiz3199 This GRT / VMK is about 12 years old. It looks owed due to poor maintenance and poor track. It does not compare to a typical Japanese train. Chinese HSR run faster and longer lines in Japan... It is a much larger country. Japanese have more luxury cars and better scheduling systems.
@@lanzortiz3199 about 2012-2015. They are high-speed looking. But it looks bad.... I doubt it ever looked good. The noise is bad. The speed is slow because it's not on HSR tracks.
I travel frequently on Greater Anglia and GNER; in the past I've also used GWR, Cross Country and Northern. Can't say I've had any problems with cleanliness on any of those companies' trains.
Yes, the trains do seem a bit wonky and there doesn't seem to be any discernible difference. For comparison sake, I looked up a trip of similar length from Atlanta, Georgia, USA (the state capital) to Birmingham, Alabama via Amtrak's Crescent. The distance is approximately 240 km or 150 miles. The ticket price is $26 US for coach (23.66 Euros). This is a long distance train and the only other accommodations are sleeping rooms which start at $185 US (168.35 Euros). This daily train has a similar travel time of 4:37 being pulled by diesels. However, in the "other" Georgia, that's it as it's the only Amtrak train to currently serve Atlanta once daily. Atlanta has a good (by American standards anyway) Metro system plus a short trolley (tram) system and the usual gaggle of busses.
I took the stadler train in january from Batumi to Tbilisi and then from Tbilisi to the airport. I'm very glad I didn't ride this train though :D Also the slow ride through the mountains was very painful and slow - I'm sure there's a lot of time to save with the construction of the new railway. I also remember spending like 20 minutes searching for the metro when I first arrived in Tbilisi - on my way back I took a cab
Travel alot, so I have been on alot of different trains, including both modern chinese ones and the very old "green skin" ones. Never one that sound like this one. Its very noticeable by all the small details around the station and on the train, that maintenance is lacking(but not even close to the worst Ive seen). Then again its Small and not a rich country, also it fought a war not too long ago. Beautiful countryside, and thanks for the video.
You're wrong about the entrance to the railway station. The way you enter, you have to go all the way up and then down again, it takes a lot of time and unless you require the ticket office (which isn't necessary for regional trains like Tbilisi-Borjomi and Tbilisi-Gardabani, because you can always buy tickets onboard from a machine), there's no need for such a big detour. You can just use the stairs between the Georgian post building and TBC bank. You can also use the road right of TBC Bank. Access to the platforms is also possible from the right side of Tbilisi Central, if that's where you're coming from, you don't have to lengthen your route by going to the main entrance.
So explain to me how your average rail user has to know you don't have to use the MAIN entrance, where are the signs guiding you on the right way? Everything you mention is only something a local knows who has found a work around to what is poor design. Idc about the 2 electric commuter trains, they weren't the videos concern. Every long distance train except the Stadlers require a tirp above the tracks to get to the platforms even if you have got a ticket online. But I guess I'm wrong for using the main entrance at a train station to catch a train 😂
@@Simon-Andersen The platforms have underground passages, you don't need to go up there, it is NOT a necessity. Yes, you are right that locals know of alternate ways to access the station. Although using google maps, you can also easily figure out that there are alternative entrances.
Curious to know what the wire suspended between two poles on the top of train is (seen at 3:50). Looks like a long-wire antenna. As for china trains breaking down and not working, that's not uncommon.
It’s quite curious to me that the CNRs have reliability problems, here in Argentina a good deal of commuter EMUs are CNR and they serve well and provide quite good ride quality. Looks like their much earlier product.
@@NLaertes likely a counterfeit look alike shell . Meh. It looks nice and faster then the other trains. But looks like nothing inside and it's performance of not HSR They bought what they can afford. Even in the USA, many of our light rail and HSR are detuned versions from Japan and Europe. They do require some changes as American couplers are not compatible. Japanese ones are high tech. The USA is better than Georgia, but behind most euro and Asian countries. Geez, rail operators are refurbishing 40+ year old EMD loco than going modern. It is what it is.
Maybe if the Georgian Dream hadn't ruled there they would have got into the EU and had subsidies for new trains. But we'll see on 26 October after the election...
checked withblimited street view and it appears the Tiblisi rail station entrance is on ground flooor and this is where the bus terminal is. Still weird the airport departure level/ramp lacks rail station signage.
Being at the end of the carriage will always give you worse ride quality and probably more squeeky-ness (as is probably comes from the gangway couplings and joints in the vestibules), so the "business" class is probably actually worse than first class if it's always at the end of the carriage...
I had no idea there is a train station at Kutaissi airport. Can i go from there to the city center? I took a train from Kutaissi city to Tbilisi, there was an old train (not like here), but not soviet. Is it the same line?
Yep, there is one. About couple Km away from the airport, though Georgian railways has some minibuses which are free and operate from Kutaisi Airport Railway station to Kutaisi Airport.
Mostly the same line, the Kutaisi city train joins the line at Rioni ive reviewed it before, where as you say, much more old and soviet stock. th-cam.com/video/4d62Z18OpIk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mvijuourVzR7k3bK The station on the airport is on the mainline from Tbilisi to Batumi / other western towns and is located about 2km from the terminal, the station is quite new 2022 iirc and all train depatures are met with a small free shuttle!
The only weirdness I can detect with these trains are the business class without perks, the curtains (like in a plane) and the sounds. Furthermore it is just a train, certainly not weirder than others.
It's amazing how far China has advanced it's rail industry. Today it manufactures high speed trains, metros, and passenger rail providing unit at par or better than European. Just 10 years ago they built this...
I always get confused when first class is a grade UNDER business class.... should work the other way round, or, use the Club (3rd) - Business (2nd) - Executive (1st) class model as some railways do.... but other than not having any difference between business & 1st (accept maybe the sort of public around you... the idea being you are surrounded by "members of the elite"), the train seems generally old but passible... as for the noise... as people say, it's old, but also, not surprising, as the train is going 100km/h on sections of railway designed at best for 50km/h and where the normal average should be between 20km/h and 30km/h not 56km/h as seen here
These trains are barely an improvement on the old USSR period trains. They are uncomfortable and noisy. The Stadler trains from Tblisi to Batumi are something else, smooth quiet and comfortable. I guess that sums up the difference between Swiss manufacturing and chinese junk.
It even don't have a widely used equivalent in China. China's high speed trains and EMUs are all oriented from either Germany or Japan, and pre-2005ish domestically built EMUs were all eliminated. German and Japanese technologies were later incorporated on locally designed and built trains and sold overseas though.
I was curious as to why an European country has higspeed trains slower than America. These trains reach 120km/h versus America's fastest at 120mph (faster).
@@treytavares6410 there are many reasons. The distances in Europe are smaller as in US. The standard vehicles were developed and designed ( cars, coaches and locomotives) for speeds up to 140 km /h. This is just changing in the last 20-30 years. The problem is the change of the speed of coaches and freight cars. Mostly they need new brake system, improvements in mechanizm etc and often they need autonome power sources and maybe a wiring over the whole train. On top there not enough high speed lines, with special safety systems, signalling, train detection etc. Each of that requires complex changes in the hundred years old tracks. Some countries build new lines instead of update.
@@ivanpetrov9230 ICE, TGV, PENDOLINO reaches speed around 300 km/h. The classic locomotive pulled Railjet runs up to 250km/ of course only on suitable lines.
Your obvious fail is that you're comparing a random European train against America's fastest train. If you compare most Western European countries' fastest trains against America's, you'll wonder why America is so slow. If you compare most Western European trains period to Amtrak's non-Acela services, you'll wonder why America's still in the dark ages. The reason this particular European train isn't very fast is the challenging terrain. There's no point building a 300km/h train for a route that is mostly constrained to 80km/h by gradients and curves. Conversely, the reason that most Amtrak trains are dog-slow is that they use track that's owned by freight companies whose trains don't go faster than 50mph.
I've seen this at other railway stations as well - passengers are made to drag luggage one or two floors up (or elevators do it), only to then descend back down to ground level to access the platforms. Seems efficient.
Unless you allow passengers to cross the tracks, which is very risky, the only options for a station with multiple platforms is that you access them by a bridge or a tunnel. Either one required going up and down stairs/elevators.
Nothing from China seems to be good. On record China's trains are much more better and efficient. The business and the first class has nothing to do with China. It's done by the operators of the train service.
There's nothing strange about the Sokhumi sign at all, because that's where historically the Tbilisi-Sokhumi train would leave from and people have a lot of memories about this place. It's a memorial, as the train no longer runs because Russia invaded Georgia a few times and forcibly displaced ethnic Georgians (about 300 000) from their own land whilst killing those who resisted. The railway was destroyed across Abkhazia, now it works from Gagra to Ochamchire, but from Ochamchire to Zugdidi, the line is still destroyed and I imagine some of it has been stolen as scrap metal. Abkhazia is Georgia. Russia is a terrorist state.
You complelty missed the joke, ovbisouly there is nothing strange about a Monument to your nation's history. But it is a bit strange when it's the only platform sign on the station. Most other places the size of Tbilisi would have plenty of signs on the platform saying Tbilisi (which was the joke 😅)
@@Simon-Andersen I don't know what Georgian railways was thinking when leaving Tbilisi Central in this condition, honestly! A majority of Georgians don't even know how trains work here, where they can find schedules, where the stops are etc. It's a big issue. Other cities in Georgia aren't as bad when it comes to this, train stations have big signs saying what station you're on and the platforms are much easier to access. You could say most other cities are actually built AROUND the train stations, as they're always in the centre. I hope GR fixes all the issues you've pointed out in another reply at some point, because it really is quite confusing for the first time.
It even don't have a widely used equivalent in China. China's high speed trains and EMUs are all oriented from either Germany or Japan, and pre-2005ish domestically built EMUs were all eliminated. German and Japanese technologies were later incorporated on locally designed and built trains and sold overseas though.
It even don't have a widely used equivalent in China. China's high speed trains and EMUs are all oriented from either Germany or Japan, and pre-2005ish domestically built EMUs were all eliminated. German and Japanese technologies were later incorporated on locally designed and built trains and sold overseas though.
@@letsplayfreakde1273I'm not one to make political comments but it's a bit wishful expecting the "war" to be over. Especially if you think Hamas are the ones who are capable of ending it ...
@@abdullahsarker3595 never did I say that it was gonna be over soon, lemme get political and say we're in for funky ass ride if one party doesn't pull emergency breaks real soon.
We have weirder trains here in Formosa under Fake Free China. Thanks to the rudeness of State-run Bento Bistro running trains here, we've got 50 sets of old-designed worms unable to reach Japanese' needs in 1990. We always feel sorry to Japanese making these train sets, as those failed products have given them bad names.
It is funny to see several western travel TH-camrs who took Indonesian high speed train never mentioned its high speed train running 350km/h was made in China. Now you took so much labour to claim that this weird train was made in China, presumably about 20 years ago. WoW! What a fantastic narrative mindset! You seem to be a professional train reviewer, but never actually try trains in China, which has about 70% high speed lines of world and operates highest speed trains. How weird!
I have not taken the Indonesian High-Speed train, so I think it’s a bit bold of you to assume that I would dismiss the fact that it was not made in China. I would love to experience high-speed trains in China at some point, but the Chinese visa policy doesn't exactly make that easy for me. The fact is, many of the trains China has exported globally, especially in the first wave about 20 years ago, have mainly competed on price, resulting in discount trains where you get what you pay for. Even newer ventures, like the CRRC trains for Leo Express or Westbahn, haven’t exactly gone well either. But thanks for drawing your super biased conclusion that there is some conspiracy to undermine Chinese trains in general. The exported ones, which are the most accessible for a westerner like myself to review, have been cheaper "discount" products, while the newer, more advanced trains are only found in much less accessible China. I will be sure to give an honest review once I have the ability to go and make a video about it.
@@Simon-Andersen Visa is a hassle but a worthwhile one. It would be worth to go just for the transportation stuff, let alone all the rest it has to offer. It will also give you context on China and its society, which really is impossible to understand as a westerner without actually being there. Apart from that, their high speed network is the fastest in the world, it's by far the biggest, and in my opinion slightly just below the Shinkansen in terms of comfort (for economy and business class, but first class is much much better than any other train seat I've ever put my butt on)
Are you alright? This video was not about Indonesian high-speed rail (or even high-speed rail), nor did he ever generalize Chinese made trains as bad. This video was a honest review of a particular train in Georgia that happen to be built in China. I am guessing you want to claim westerners as biased ("western travel TH-camrs" as you call them), but please do realize you are doing exactly the same thing by trying to push your Chinese bias onto others. An honest review should be just as this video. No antagonizing, honest but not mean, and straight to the point.
@@luisramos123 He wouldn't be going as a visitor but as a content creator would rather require a business visa. And we all know how China handles these.
It even don't have a widely used equivalent in China. China's high speed trains and EMUs are all oriented from either Germany or Japan, and pre-2005ish domestically built EMUs were all eliminated. German and Japanese technologies were later incorporated on locally designed and built trains and sold overseas though. 1
I'll be honest. Yes, the train is outdated, but compared to many trains in Georgia(Which were produced during the Soviet era), this train is quite comfortable, even though it's slow and it's shaking. I've sat on it many times: there are at least basic things like air conditioning, pretty comfortable seats and sockets.
Haha.. sounds like someone screaming for help while being sliced😅😂
Chinese quality lol
I would never change Siemens/Stadler/Alstom for those, whatever they are called, commie products.
👍
Horší než RegioJet
I had gone to Georgia the exact same time you had. At gori, we visited the Stalin museum. There, we saw Stalin’s own personal train carriage. It was very cool.
Sounds like you had a intresting trip :D
I'm sure China rail company will follow your design. My country have a beautiful and modern train from China and our Government is ordering 62 new train from China....
Great video!
Little correction :
The train was made and introduced in Georgia year 2007/08. It was a great train, hassle free for quite some time, 0 squeaks, but after 15+ years and not much maintenance, at least after Covid, the train does show its age.
They have started repairing/renovating these particular trains lately, so probably and hopefully they will get better.
P.s Even after 15 years, the seats are much more comfortable, than the Stadler Kiss one we have here for Tbilisi-Batumi route. (Talking about 2nd class).
First class seats are also really comfortable in these trains, however Stadler’s seats are indeed better, but not twice as much, like the ticket price difference between the two…
The operator decides about the build in seats, not the builder of the train.😉
@@janv777 That’s for sure, but it’s still better than any Stadler Kiss 2nd class seats I’ve been in, for instance - Westbahn one, DB, CD etc.
Thanks! It was really hard to find info on when these actually arrived in Georgia, Railgallery had them listed in 2010 railgallery.ru/model/119/
The exact Stadlers were build for Moscow AeroExpress system, they even haven't change upholstery of the seats with AeroExpress logos on it, but later some war and annex happend and Stadler delcine the order. So the seats wasn't meant for something more than a 1.5 hour from Moscow center to one of it's airports.
@@FayFromGallifrey Did I ever mention that Georgian railways isn’t there to blame?
It’s horrible even for the Airport route.
The weirdness of the station, the bonkyness of the train, I love it :D
Nice video - I have lived in Tbilisi nearly 4 years and the set-up at the main railway station always gets me. Dodging traffic when accessing it on foot adds to the fun.,
😂 samething happened with Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. As usual, Chinese items are’WORLD CLASS’
I traveled on one of those units from Tbilisi to Gori last year and I found it fine and while I was disappointed it was a unit and not a VL Class hauled train (like my return journey) it certainly is a step up from the old Soviet time trains from the perspective of a normal passenger as opposed to my nostalgic anorak bias
I had trip from Tbilisi to Zugdidi last winter. And i was curious about this slightly weird train, not soviet, not modern eu. Thank you for explanation. And return to my trip. Next stage was 4 hours in minibus where you must drink georgian wine because if you refuse, wine would be drinked by bus driver :)). The road was to ski resort Mestia in mountains along cliff after snowstorm :))). Minibus was stacked in snow so 10 men pushed it back :))) Mestia is a great place. Returning was 40 minutes on regional turboprop L-410 with outstanding views.
cant complain! it works just fine and smooth!
Did you hear the squeaking in the video or saw the broken one being dragged by a VL18 in the video. Hardly works just fine 😂
Better than whatever soviet train I rode in Georgia in January 2023. 😅
Soviet trains only serve regional lines and they're ridiculously cheap, starting from 50 tetri to 2GEL. Their purpose is not to be comfortable, they're there for the sake of moving people around. Some examples of these are Tbilisi-Borjomi, Tbilisi-Gardabani, Gori-Nikozi, Kutaisi-Tkibuli, Kutaisi-Tskaltubo, Khashuri-Zestafoni and others.
@@qorrro Yes, I went to Tskaltubo from Kutaisi and even getting tickets for it was a bit confusing. The "central" train station in Kutaisi is renovated and yet feels like 1980 inside.
Also, this train goes like 2x per day or something
@@realhawaii5o Sadly, it doesn't run anymore!
Service on that route, as well as a lot of others was stopped during the pandemic and currently Kutaisi-Tskaltubo and Kutaisi-Tkibuli still aren't operational 😔
In the West, "Business Class" would be the midrange tier, below "First Class" in cost and amenities.
On planes not on trains. OBB has business above first for instance
@@Simon-Andersen Doesn't trenitalita have first above business?
@@Simon-Andersen Seeing people using O instead of Ö just hurts my eyes, to be honest. if you can't write the letter Ö write "Oe" in place.
@@windows8.1proforthewin Guess what? People who don't speak your language don't have umlauts on their keyboard and don't know its orthographic conventions. If you ask nicely and educate them, they might write "OeBB". When you come across as a jerk, they'll just ignöre yöu.
Nice review.
Hello Simon, thank you for the nice video and the interesting posts. I'm going on holiday to Georgia soon and will be travelling by train. Can you please explain to me again when you get the chance how you can book your tickets using the Georgian railway app? Thank you very much. Kind regent’s from Berlin Andreas
Hi Andreas, sorry if this is too late now, but the app is straightforward and available in English. Just get it from the App Store; it's called TRE.GE - Railway Tickets. You can pay with Visa and Mastercard. Greetings from Copenhagen
Thumbs Up! Very good Video!
Thank you! Cheers!
We did the same trip on board of one of the Stadler trains about 3 weeks ago.
First and foremost: due to the low ticket fares, the trains sell out very fast. With very few departures per day (2 per direction?) you should reserve your tickets at least 7 days in advance.
I was looking forward to the ride but it wasn't too special. We traveled 1st class but I thought them to be crammed and the seats not too comfy. Well, we have the same trains for regional connections at home. Wifi came without internet, the view through the windows was blocked by some blends and the train was really slow due to ancient tracks. We made about 30km/h and at one point we stopped and stood around for about one hour without any of the staff providing an explanation.
Georgia seems to have had good rail connections in Soviet times. Like many other things they fell into a decline from 1990 but now it seems as if they are finally investing again...
JUST USE SOME LUBE ALREADY! Georgian Railways
Good video,make more videos about the georgian railways
More to come! Thank you!
Then compare this to the trains in Japan. Even the rural ones are smoother and don't squeak as if it's falling apart.
And the bathrooms are of course excellent in Japan.
That said. Interesting and cool video you made of a obscure train from China
I think this is a very old train, i also saw old soviet trains running in this video. New Chinese bullet trains today are as stable or better and runs faster than japanese train.
@@lanzortiz3199 This GRT / VMK is about 12 years old. It looks owed due to poor maintenance and poor track. It does not compare to a typical Japanese train.
Chinese HSR run faster and longer lines in Japan... It is a much larger country. Japanese have more luxury cars and better scheduling systems.
@@TexasCat99 12 years old? 😅 It looks like 30 years old. I guess they are not good at maintaining them.
@@lanzortiz3199 about 2012-2015. They are high-speed looking. But it looks bad.... I doubt it ever looked good. The noise is bad. The speed is slow because it's not on HSR tracks.
It looks far cleaner than most modern UK trains and a helluva lot cheaper !!😊
I travel frequently on Greater Anglia and GNER; in the past I've also used GWR, Cross Country and Northern. Can't say I've had any problems with cleanliness on any of those companies' trains.
@@beeble2003I'm assuming you mean LNER? GNER ceased existing in 2007
@@Danse_Macabre_125 Oops. But, yeah, I mean "Whatever company most recently bid too much money to run the ECML."
@@beeble2003 Sometimes I heard the phrase "Whoever's turn it is to run the ECML this week"
@@Danse_Macabre_125 That's a little unfair -- they all lasted at least a month! 🤣
Thank you for your video! The train itself seems to me quite cool. 😊
Yes, the trains do seem a bit wonky and there doesn't seem to be any discernible difference.
For comparison sake, I looked up a trip of similar length from Atlanta, Georgia, USA (the state capital) to Birmingham, Alabama via Amtrak's Crescent. The distance is approximately 240 km or 150 miles. The ticket price is $26 US for coach (23.66 Euros). This is a long distance train and the only other accommodations are sleeping rooms which start at $185 US (168.35 Euros). This daily train has a similar travel time of 4:37 being pulled by diesels. However, in the "other" Georgia, that's it as it's the only Amtrak train to currently serve Atlanta once daily. Atlanta has a good (by American standards anyway) Metro system plus a short trolley (tram) system and the usual gaggle of busses.
Nice!Congrats with 20K subscribers 😊
Thank you so much 😀
I took the stadler train in january from Batumi to Tbilisi and then from Tbilisi to the airport. I'm very glad I didn't ride this train though :D Also the slow ride through the mountains was very painful and slow - I'm sure there's a lot of time to save with the construction of the new railway. I also remember spending like 20 minutes searching for the metro when I first arrived in Tbilisi - on my way back I took a cab
Travel alot, so I have been on alot of different trains, including both modern chinese ones and the very old "green skin" ones. Never one that sound like this one. Its very noticeable by all the small details around the station and on the train, that maintenance is lacking(but not even close to the worst Ive seen). Then again its Small and not a rich country, also it fought a war not too long ago. Beautiful countryside, and thanks for the video.
Maintenance definetly plays a part along with the overall quality, i wonder how long Georgia is gonna keep these "working" Thanks for watching :D
You're wrong about the entrance to the railway station. The way you enter, you have to go all the way up and then down again, it takes a lot of time and unless you require the ticket office (which isn't necessary for regional trains like Tbilisi-Borjomi and Tbilisi-Gardabani, because you can always buy tickets onboard from a machine), there's no need for such a big detour. You can just use the stairs between the Georgian post building and TBC bank. You can also use the road right of TBC Bank. Access to the platforms is also possible from the right side of Tbilisi Central, if that's where you're coming from, you don't have to lengthen your route by going to the main entrance.
So explain to me how your average rail user has to know you don't have to use the MAIN entrance, where are the signs guiding you on the right way? Everything you mention is only something a local knows who has found a work around to what is poor design. Idc about the 2 electric commuter trains, they weren't the videos concern. Every long distance train except the Stadlers require a tirp above the tracks to get to the platforms even if you have got a ticket online. But I guess I'm wrong for using the main entrance at a train station to catch a train 😂
@@Simon-Andersen The platforms have underground passages, you don't need to go up there, it is NOT a necessity. Yes, you are right that locals know of alternate ways to access the station. Although using google maps, you can also easily figure out that there are alternative entrances.
@qorrro why not to put in normal signs so that everyone, not just locals know how ans where to go .
Curious to know what the wire suspended between two poles on the top of train is (seen at 3:50). Looks like a long-wire antenna.
As for china trains breaking down and not working, that's not uncommon.
I agree (as a non-expert) that it looks like a radio antenna. Possibly needed for communication in the mountains?
I have no idea actually about the wires, hopefully someone else can enlighten us!
Stadler Kiss in Georgia? I did not expect that. Looking forward to the video. Your train in this video on the other hand 🤣
Yes, on Tbilisi - Batumi route
The trains are squeaking. One thing is buying a train, another is mantaining it at a proper level
It’s quite curious to me that the CNRs have reliability problems, here in Argentina a good deal of commuter EMUs are CNR and they serve well and provide quite good ride quality. Looks like their much earlier product.
Excellent video
Glad you liked it
This looks like a second hand MagLev unit repurposed for conventional railways
@@NLaertes likely a counterfeit look alike shell . Meh. It looks nice and faster then the other trains. But looks like nothing inside and it's performance of not HSR They bought what they can afford. Even in the USA, many of our light rail and HSR are detuned versions from Japan and Europe. They do require some changes as American couplers are not compatible. Japanese ones are high tech.
The USA is better than Georgia, but behind most euro and Asian countries. Geez, rail operators are refurbishing 40+ year old EMD loco than going modern.
It is what it is.
One thing is to buy a train, another is mantaining at a proper level.
Could you please ride the latvian new skoda 16ev's? They're very nice!
At some point, but I don't know when I'll be in the Baltics again
Maybe if the Georgian Dream hadn't ruled there they would have got into the EU and had subsidies for new trains. But we'll see on 26 October after the election...
checked withblimited street view and it appears the Tiblisi rail station entrance is on ground flooor and this is where the bus terminal is. Still weird the airport departure level/ramp lacks rail station signage.
It's very wierd in general and there are no signs really guiding you where to enter
Apparently the fine for traveling without a ticket is only 20 lari or around US$7.50. They must not take it that seriously.
Excellent video my Friends greeting 😊From Argentina 😊
Thank you very much!
Being at the end of the carriage will always give you worse ride quality and probably more squeeky-ness (as is probably comes from the gangway couplings and joints in the vestibules), so the "business" class is probably actually worse than first class if it's always at the end of the carriage...
Good review. Out of interest, do you buy two tickets so that you have an empty seat next to you for filming purposes? 🤔
No and on this train i did not even have a empty seat to me, i just filmed it when the person next to me went to the toilet :P
@@Simon-Andersen Ah, I see!
I had no idea there is a train station at Kutaissi airport. Can i go from there to the city center?
I took a train from Kutaissi city to Tbilisi, there was an old train (not like here), but not soviet. Is it the same line?
Yep, there is one. About couple Km away from the airport, though Georgian railways has some minibuses which are free and operate from Kutaisi Airport Railway station to Kutaisi Airport.
Mostly the same line, the Kutaisi city train joins the line at Rioni ive reviewed it before, where as you say, much more old and soviet stock. th-cam.com/video/4d62Z18OpIk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mvijuourVzR7k3bK The station on the airport is on the mainline from Tbilisi to Batumi / other western towns and is located about 2km from the terminal, the station is quite new 2022 iirc and all train depatures are met with a small free shuttle!
@@Simon-Andersen why didn't they just move the tracks and build the station at the airport...
The only weirdness I can detect with these trains are the business class without perks, the curtains (like in a plane) and the sounds. Furthermore it is just a train, certainly not weirder than others.
It's amazing how far China has advanced it's rail industry. Today it manufactures high speed trains, metros, and passenger rail providing unit at par or better than European. Just 10 years ago they built this...
01:12 07:12 09:24 Well brought jokes, man 🤣
Interesting journey. At least, toilets were clean 😅
Great vid 😉👍
Thank you!
The point of the business class seems to be that no people are walking through it. It also means that you need to walk longer to get there and back.
Some people like to pay more in order to "prevent" others to join.
I wonder if the business class used to get additional services or perks.
Maybe! On the Stadler you get free coffee and tea at least.
Looks primeval but at least it's something. Where I am we have nothing.
Why was the station using Fahrenheit for weather lmfaooo
Someone took a kick back to allowed that Chinese tatt into the Georgian network, buying Chinese, some folk just never learn.
I always get confused when first class is a grade UNDER business class.... should work the other way round, or, use the Club (3rd) - Business (2nd) - Executive (1st) class model as some railways do.... but other than not having any difference between business & 1st (accept maybe the sort of public around you... the idea being you are surrounded by "members of the elite"), the train seems generally old but passible... as for the noise... as people say, it's old, but also, not surprising, as the train is going 100km/h on sections of railway designed at best for 50km/h and where the normal average should be between 20km/h and 30km/h not 56km/h as seen here
Tiblisi station reminds me of Odense Banegårdscenter, it is about as confusing and unaesthetic.
For some reason they remind me of the AGC trains operated by SNCF
Wow, I'm kinda shocked to see any railway in Europe match Victoria's ticket prices.
Well, that`s Georgia, I wouldn`t expect MUCH from`em anyways
You pay for business class to travel among your fellow business people :)))
I suppose most people are more than happy that they have a means of transportation - as usual a compromise when there is a budgetary squeeze .
I'm sure of that! Trains in Georgia are often full and dirt cheap!
These trains are barely an improvement on the old USSR period trains. They are uncomfortable and noisy. The Stadler trains from Tblisi to Batumi are something else, smooth quiet and comfortable. I guess that sums up the difference between Swiss manufacturing and chinese junk.
You really compare 2008 train to 2020+? Good job
What do you expect coming from China. Same situation with the Chine cars.
Remember golden rule: the more you pay, the better you get.
Little difference between Business classes and economy class in short haul inter-EU cities OR US domestic flights！！
It even don't have a widely used equivalent in China. China's high speed trains and EMUs are all oriented from either Germany or Japan, and pre-2005ish domestically built EMUs were all eliminated. German and Japanese technologies were later incorporated on locally designed and built trains and sold overseas though.
even the pantograph is from the seventies.
Standard China export train quality I guess
Beautiful European Country!
Wierd and wonky with fake classes....sounds a lot like DSB especially ic4
The train stations look so dirty
I was curious as to why an European country has higspeed trains slower than America.
These trains reach 120km/h versus America's fastest at 120mph (faster).
Acela runs at 150 mph
@@ivanpetrov9230 so it's even faster!
@@treytavares6410 there are many reasons. The distances in Europe are smaller as in US. The standard vehicles were developed and designed ( cars, coaches and locomotives) for speeds up to 140 km /h. This is just changing in the last 20-30 years. The problem is the change of the speed of coaches and freight cars. Mostly they need new brake system, improvements in mechanizm etc and often they need autonome power sources and maybe a wiring over the whole train.
On top there not enough high speed lines, with special safety systems, signalling, train detection etc. Each of that requires complex changes in the hundred years old tracks. Some countries build new lines instead of update.
@@ivanpetrov9230 ICE, TGV, PENDOLINO reaches speed around 300 km/h. The classic locomotive pulled Railjet runs up to 250km/ of course only on suitable lines.
Your obvious fail is that you're comparing a random European train against America's fastest train. If you compare most Western European countries' fastest trains against America's, you'll wonder why America is so slow. If you compare most Western European trains period to Amtrak's non-Acela services, you'll wonder why America's still in the dark ages.
The reason this particular European train isn't very fast is the challenging terrain. There's no point building a 300km/h train for a route that is mostly constrained to 80km/h by gradients and curves. Conversely, the reason that most Amtrak trains are dog-slow is that they use track that's owned by freight companies whose trains don't go faster than 50mph.
Come to India to explore Indian railways specially Vande Bharat and RRT of delhi
At some point!
...it is even crazier: that train is old German tech they just copied.
like every train? every train looks exactly the same lol
I've seen this at other railway stations as well - passengers are made to drag luggage one or two floors up (or elevators do it), only to then descend back down to ground level to access the platforms. Seems efficient.
Unless you allow passengers to cross the tracks, which is very risky, the only options for a station with multiple platforms is that you access them by a bridge or a tunnel. Either one required going up and down stairs/elevators.
@@beeble2003 Yes that's a very good point. Agreed that track crossing would be a terrible idea.
Call it Gruzia to prevent confusion.
I think using the name on the Monument I am referring to makes more sense.
I believe that name is used only in Russia.
@@xandervk2371 Not anymore. Its use prevents a mix-up with the US state of Georgia. Similar to Türkiye now being used instead of Turkey.
@@krautsky You don't know what's you're talking about.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
It's OK calling Generalissimus Stalin a dictator. The man was a total dick.
I make videos about trains, not deep diving into the acts and politics behind important historic people. :-)
My my student id has a discount on gr so i pay half pries in second class like 3,5 euros
Cool video, but i don't understand why it is "weird", the way you showed it makes it looks just like an average train
It's mostly a refrence to the buisness class product :-) But yeah thats more on the operator.
Thankyou for travelling , spending and sharing.
Hope TH-cam revenue refunds you +
These trains are positively super luxurious compared to the pacer trains we used to have in the UK.
Pacers did not use to run across the country on 6 hours trips tho
@@Simon-Andersen No but I once did Manchester -Chester on one, felt like six hours!!!
Wow, a long-distance train that's nicer than a commuter train! Never would have expected that!
6:30 That’s an annoying sound
That squeaking sound is annoying. Chinese train cars are pretty junky.
h=3600s
Nothing from China seems to be good. On record China's trains are much more better and efficient. The business and the first class has nothing to do with China. It's done by the operators of the train service.
There's nothing strange about the Sokhumi sign at all, because that's where historically the Tbilisi-Sokhumi train would leave from and people have a lot of memories about this place. It's a memorial, as the train no longer runs because Russia invaded Georgia a few times and forcibly displaced ethnic Georgians (about 300 000) from their own land whilst killing those who resisted. The railway was destroyed across Abkhazia, now it works from Gagra to Ochamchire, but from Ochamchire to Zugdidi, the line is still destroyed and I imagine some of it has been stolen as scrap metal. Abkhazia is Georgia. Russia is a terrorist state.
You complelty missed the joke, ovbisouly there is nothing strange about a Monument to your nation's history. But it is a bit strange when it's the only platform sign on the station. Most other places the size of Tbilisi would have plenty of signs on the platform saying Tbilisi (which was the joke 😅)
@@Simon-Andersen I don't know what Georgian railways was thinking when leaving Tbilisi Central in this condition, honestly! A majority of Georgians don't even know how trains work here, where they can find schedules, where the stops are etc. It's a big issue. Other cities in Georgia aren't as bad when it comes to this, train stations have big signs saying what station you're on and the platforms are much easier to access. You could say most other cities are actually built AROUND the train stations, as they're always in the centre. I hope GR fixes all the issues you've pointed out in another reply at some point, because it really is quite confusing for the first time.
@@Simon-Andersen By the way, the platform sign, the lampposts and the chair are supposed to mimic the ones in Sokhumi as far as I know.
Interesting, looks and sound better than the Danish IC4 🙂
@@EVtestDK yeah, Danish IC4 is horrible 😃
The station in Tbilisi reminds me of Warszawa Centralna, only smaller and in worse condition
見た目が名鉄の1700系に似てますね。
It's not great, but even the regular class seats are still acceptable. Rail beats private car any day of the week.
The buyer decides what the inside looks like. They get what they pay for. Nothing to do with the Chinese supplier.
It even don't have a widely used equivalent in China. China's high speed trains and EMUs are all oriented from either Germany or Japan, and pre-2005ish domestically built EMUs were all eliminated. German and Japanese technologies were later incorporated on locally designed and built trains and sold overseas though.
Business Class is higher than first class....strange
That's normal on european railways
@@jakubsimek6246 in Germany we just have 2. And 1. Class
@@Anderten1989 yeah, but for example öbb/čd railjets have a business class above first.
Thats ussualy how it works on trains. But yeah opposite of planes
Better than Boeing products that are always falling to the sea.
It even don't have a widely used equivalent in China. China's high speed trains and EMUs are all oriented from either Germany or Japan, and pre-2005ish domestically built EMUs were all eliminated. German and Japanese technologies were later incorporated on locally designed and built trains and sold overseas though.
You should come visit the tel aviv light rail wite me!
Maybe some day in the future now its actually open!
@@Simon-Andersen thank you
@@Simon-AndersenMaybe wait before the war is over tho lol, we wouldn't want Hamas to get you Simon lol
@@letsplayfreakde1273I'm not one to make political comments but it's a bit wishful expecting the "war" to be over. Especially if you think Hamas are the ones who are capable of ending it ...
@@abdullahsarker3595 never did I say that it was gonna be over soon, lemme get political and say we're in for funky ass ride if one party doesn't pull emergency breaks real soon.
What about dictator and mass murderer Stalin instead of "Soviet leader"?
Both are true at the same time 🤷
It is a channel about trains and railways. It’s not about evaluating people from history.
I make videos about trains, not deep diving into the acts and politics behind important historic people. :-)
@@Simon-Andersen Ok sure but the guy killed millions
We have weirder trains here in Formosa under Fake Free China. Thanks to the rudeness of State-run Bento Bistro running trains here, we've got 50 sets of old-designed worms unable to reach Japanese' needs in 1990. We always feel sorry to Japanese making these train sets, as those failed products have given them bad names.
I think I will not be subscribing, too much complaining
It is funny to see several western travel TH-camrs who took Indonesian high speed train never mentioned its high speed train running 350km/h was made in China. Now you took so much labour to claim that this weird train was made in China, presumably about 20 years ago. WoW! What a fantastic narrative mindset! You seem to be a professional train reviewer, but never actually try trains in China, which has about 70% high speed lines of world and operates highest speed trains. How weird!
I have not taken the Indonesian High-Speed train, so I think it’s a bit bold of you to assume that I would dismiss the fact that it was not made in China.
I would love to experience high-speed trains in China at some point, but the Chinese visa policy doesn't exactly make that easy for me.
The fact is, many of the trains China has exported globally, especially in the first wave about 20 years ago, have mainly competed on price, resulting in discount trains where you get what you pay for. Even newer ventures, like the CRRC trains for Leo Express or Westbahn, haven’t exactly gone well either.
But thanks for drawing your super biased conclusion that there is some conspiracy to undermine Chinese trains in general. The exported ones, which are the most accessible for a westerner like myself to review, have been cheaper "discount" products, while the newer, more advanced trains are only found in much less accessible China. I will be sure to give an honest review once I have the ability to go and make a video about it.
@@Simon-Andersen Visa is a hassle but a worthwhile one. It would be worth to go just for the transportation stuff, let alone all the rest it has to offer. It will also give you context on China and its society, which really is impossible to understand as a westerner without actually being there. Apart from that, their high speed network is the fastest in the world, it's by far the biggest, and in my opinion slightly just below the Shinkansen in terms of comfort (for economy and business class, but first class is much much better than any other train seat I've ever put my butt on)
Are you alright? This video was not about Indonesian high-speed rail (or even high-speed rail), nor did he ever generalize Chinese made trains as bad. This video was a honest review of a particular train in Georgia that happen to be built in China.
I am guessing you want to claim westerners as biased ("western travel TH-camrs" as you call them), but please do realize you are doing exactly the same thing by trying to push your Chinese bias onto others.
An honest review should be just as this video. No antagonizing, honest but not mean, and straight to the point.
@@luisramos123 He wouldn't be going as a visitor but as a content creator would rather require a business visa. And we all know how China handles these.
TH-cam please do not recommend propaganda videos to me. Thank you.
It even don't have a widely used equivalent in China. China's high speed trains and EMUs are all oriented from either Germany or Japan, and pre-2005ish domestically built EMUs were all eliminated. German and Japanese technologies were later incorporated on locally designed and built trains and sold overseas though.
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