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- Cloutoons: / coastoons
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Small Scale Dive Coasters with shorter layouts have been a thing since 2011
Starting with Krake at Heide Park in Germany
Then started picking up steam with Oblivion the Black Hole at Gardaland in Italy in 2015
Well they've been a thing since dive coasters exist, with Oblivion at Alton Towers.
@@DaanBruins
Oh yeah true
That whole channel is very America centric though. B&Ms in Europe never were that big, apart from Katun, the two hypers and maybe Superman.
i went on yukon striker today
And Baron 1898 which is the shortest
There were no smaller B&Ms.
Firebird, Patriot, Vortex, Batman the Ride, and many others: AHEN
Nemesis, Oblivion, air, Black Mamba...
@@louiswright8282oblivions drop is literally 180ft and the others are due to height restrictions
@@louiswright8282Nemesis couldnt be big but it still is, oblivion has a 180ft drop. air couldnt be big but it was a huge step forward, black mamba is similar to nemesis. b&m always used alton as their new model tests in a way anyway. it still worked and was huge for what it was
Hollywood Dream, Daemonen
georgia scorcher and superman ultimate flight too
I wish B&M would go back to making the aggressive and whipper rides but it doesn’t appeal to GP as much so that’s prob why they are tamer now
Some whippy rides are AMAZING, but most whippy B&Ms I've been on hurt my neck a lot.
Three out of the four B&Ms I've ridden are forceless.
I wish they were as well
@@IntaminFanGRLPowerCoastersWhich ones?
@dlopez8104 Tatsu (Elite) and Scream, Batman SFMM, and Riddlers Revenge (mid tier, forceless, Boring and Mild, essentially the same🤣)
Mini dives have been popular in Europe for quite a while now, for example Barron 1898 at Efteling is actually the smallest dive, is my favourite dive coaster even over rides like griffon and Yukon striker, the drop is still good and verry punchy despite not having the scale, and the rest of the layout has decent forces, with the theme and presentation being the cherry on top
You are probably saying that without even going on yukon.
@@keepaeditsyea I have it’s pretty good just I prefer Barron lol
I'd say this is actually a common trend that the pandemic just amplified.
Usually when a new coaster model is introduced (especially if it is a new type of coaster) there is a rush to build the biggest, record breaker. Then at some point it just doesn't become economical to go after the record so parks focus on smaller ones. It happened to stand ups, to inverts, to now dives. Eventually a record breaker might be built again, but years after the competition ended (see Banshee).
At this point, unless you are going for a giga dive, trying to take the record from Yukon just ain't worth it.
Another factor is B&M is finally trying to break into the family coaster market. This means creating new models (see seaworld Orlando 2024), but also retrofitting older models to family (what they are doing to the wing). B&M was the only major manufacturer that didn't have family coaster models. Now they are tapping that untapped market.
You didn't even mention Maximus at Legoland Deutschland. There's your tiny wing coaster that isn't even a launched shuttle like Mandrill Mayhem. I expect more of those are on the way, especially in Merlin parks.
Merlin loves their B&M Wings... there are 6 B&M Wings in Europe and 5 of them are at a Merlin park. (Gardaland is my home park, Raptor is my most ridden coaster ever.)
Weirdly, the only one that doesn't feature one is Alton Towers...but that may change in a few years, who knows🤔
@@Mattia_GenuardiAlton Towers is not the only Merlin park without a wing coaster.
Legoland Windsor and Billund also don't have ones.
You forgot that this guy does zerooo research about EU parks, american baised yter it is :))
@@me-myself-i787 Yeah I was excluding the Lego Parks, even tho there's Maximus at Legoland Deutschland
@@me-myself-i787I think that they're coming for those parks
TBH I think a lot it is also room, there just isnt enough room in many of these parks for these super large 200+ ft coasters. Making room by removing whole parts of a park just isn't feasible for a single coaster for most parks, 150+ ft is a solid size that is just big enough to wow the crowd and still draw attention.
Dorney is tiny, only having 7 COASTERS, 3 of them basically being kiddie/family coasters, they have plenty of room for a way bigger ride than IrOn MeNaCe
Prediction before watching the video: cause they're too expensive.
True, B&Ms are so expensive, although Cedar Fair is not shy to spend the money on them somewhat.
I think market forces in general are also forcing B&M to change up their strategy and offerings. Like you said, most big parks already have multiple large B&Ms and despite variances primarily in their train style and elements, they are all kind of same-y. I think Pipeline and Mandrill Mayhem are good indicators to look at when considering that B&M is realizing in order to stay relevant and in-demand, they need to start innovating again in creative new ways and be more adaptable to different park sizes and needs.
The coaster wars are over and they need to start being a compelling option again for an exciting new ride in the face of RMC, new-gen Intamin blitzes and shuttle coasters, Mack extreme spinners, etc.
I live in the uk, the only reason why we have a 60 ft wing at chessington is cause it’s a park which primarily focuses on children’s rides cause that’s their audience, young children
'Chessington park'... (And yes i have been on Mandrill Mayhem but the reason it's smaller is because Chessington World of Adventures is more of a family park) (It was also the first B&M I went on because it is smaller, I've been on Galactica too now, I'm trying to get over my fear slowly).
(You don’t need to put everything in brackets)
Seriously… you are replying to a 7 month old comment saying that. If you don’t have anything good to say, don’t say it.
The reason why B&M aren't building the large coasters anymore is that the large rides that they built just don't attract the guests they used to in the 90s etc. They aren't the hottest hot, new and shiny. Even GP has seen multiple rides of that type when they visit parks, so the value isn't there. When large coasters are built nowadays, they end up still being a supporting coaster for the park, which isn't worth it (Gatekeeper comes to mind, don't know if Yukon has really drawn in huge crowds etc). Smaller scale B&Ms aren't cheap still, but they are a very reliable supporting coaster, that can still appeal to people.
Hell, I think that parks have seen too many warning examples of coasters from less reliable manufacturers ending up as maintenance nightmares that end up costing more for the park than a B&M ever would, which is the reason why these smaller rides are now catching on. For example, Cedar Fair isn't working with RMC anymore, but seems to be going for more B&Ms, despite the latter being more expensive on paper.
Expensive to build, easy to maintain and reliable supporting coasters, that pay themselves back over time almost certainly. Save the more risky investments for the headliners.
---
Also, as others have pointed out, smaller B&Ms have been all the rage outside the US for all this time. "The Biggest" and "The Fastest" marketing has just been very effective in America, which lead to larger coasters being built.
I think it's a mix of many things. Space, Price, ROI. These rides are built for the GP not us enthusiasts. They'll get a similar ROI on a 150ft ride as they would a hyper. That's just how the GP work. You make it look scary and fun and it's a hit.
Space is a big one, most major parks are very fully developed from the coaster wars of the late 90’s and early 2000’s
Unless you’re KI or Dollywood most high attendance American parks don’t have much land to fit large new coasters without removing existing attractions and the smaller ones with the undeveloped land don’t have the attendance to justify such large scale additions from a budget standpoint.
Even though most B&Ms aren't scary and they're completely forceless nowadays.
However, most B&Ms are extremely expensive. A small-scale dive coaster would probably cost more than an insane, whippy Vekoma or Intamin coaster.
@@lightningboatBruh
You made great points in your reasoning with the money aspect as well as the oversaturation of other B&M coasters (lol Dorney has 2!) But I think it's unfair to slight them for not really pushing the limit with this new coster. Considering this is their first new one since 2005 and Cedar Fair seemingly putting them on the back burner, I am glad the distant 3rd place (maybe 4th place) park in the Philly area is getting something to get people to walk through the door. Dorney is the closet park to me by time and distance and I've been to Hershey and SF Great Adventure a ton more.
smaller dives i postulate is because of cost for parks & the increased use of vest restraints requiring stronger airtime (95° drop) since you can't just float anymore (just like woodies when buzz bars went away)
I'm not so sure about that. I'm pretty sure B&M have built a few new dives with the old OTSRs, it's just park preference.
The argument about emperor, dr db and iron menace is so wrong like the "mini" dives have been a thing for years over here in Europe, i dont see how its so surprising
Also the smaller dives seem to be easier to theme ex: Baron, both Oblivions and Krake
Weren't some of B&M's first coasters smaller stand up coasters?
It's not because they "cannot afford a bigger coaster"... It's because the cost of steel went up, and to build a coaster thats 200ft + would cost significantly more than what it would have 10 years ago.
It has nothing to do with not affording more, it has everything to do with they can afford what they used to be able to buy, but that same price has now shrunk and they can afford what they used to be able to which results in smaller rides.
Space is a big one, most major parks are very fully developed from the coaster wars of the late 90’s and early 2000’s
Unless you’re KI or Dollywood most high attendance American parks don’t have much land to fit large new coasters without removing existing attractions. For example the last new coaster at CP that didn’t take the place of an existing attraction was Maverick back in 2007.
and the smaller ones with the undeveloped land don’t have the attendance to justify such large scale additions from a budget standpoint.
Maverick replaced the log flume White Water Landing, which closed in 2005
I will say though about pipeline, a part of the reaspn why stand up coasters were so painful and uncomfortable was how forceful they were which really wasnt great considering you're standing up.
Well, I'm just glad my home park has the tallest Dive Coaster. It's sad if B&M does down size the rest of there up coming coasters.. B&M should make more Kumba style rides IMO
Love this video! Keep up the great work
It’s 8 minutes and you commented it 1 minute ago
@@masterwatermelonthemeparks SO I watched enough to know I liked it
@@roslevy1219 he is that good
back to what u said they kind of have done this with inverts cause the most recent one was monster at grona lund and its very small/short/compact so i wonder if when they ever build an invert again its gonna be that small scale
Dorney is my home park so I’m really excited about it but if it was bigger longer faster it would be better but it looks like a good addition to the park
My feelings are still hurt that BGW didn't put in a B&M flying coaster where Big Bad Wolf stood. Verbolten is a such a travesty on that piece of land it sits on.
I think people who have never edited before don't appreciate the amount of work that went into editing this video. I mean, WOW, GREAT JOB! Of course your content and delivery is also awesome. I have to ask from a perspective of what i should be doing on my channel: did you edit this all yourself or do you have a team?
I edit the videos myself
@@Coastoons once again, that's spectacularly impressive! Great job!
Hi im a brit at 5:20 he points out that a b&m wing coaster is only 65 feet and i can tell u that the park (chessington world of adventures) its located at is for familys and children idk when but at some point chessington had a flat ride that was for the teens and adults market ( I also dont rember its original name only the name it was given after being relocated ) and they removed it and relocated it to thorpe park and theme park targeted at teens and adults so the reason its 65 feet is cause they wanted it to be suitable for children and chessington dosent strive from that as shown when they removed the flat ride for teens and adults
I think Iron Menace looks better than Dr. Diabolical, tbh. Diabolical may be a little longer, but the mid course comes so soon and trims so hard it kills the pacing. Then the second half drags.
No mid course means that Dorney's ride will at least keep the speed and thrills to the end, even if it's short.
the reason for the name "iron menace" is because dorney park has some iron factorys next to iron menace which is why it has the name that it has
The parks make the ending choice.
Iron Menace reminds me of a bigger version of “Baron”
As a rider and a Canadian rider of Yukon, it’s better then Sheikra (the only dive I’ve ridden)
Yeah I've been on 3 Yukon, Sheikra and Valravn and CW has the best by far IMO
I’m kind of happy they need to do something different I think. B&m have been kind of unexciting to me lately maybe they’ll start taking more risks to bring the brand back to the spotlight. I love big rides but like you said, EVERYONE has a huge b&m coaster
that's all true but mandrill mayhem went to a family park so of course it is less intense and chessington can't build above the tree line so it would naturally be shorter anyway
South Whitehall also has a height restriction. That’s one of the reasons why.b&ms have been good to dorney with talon and hydra, plus you have no dove coaster on the north east. I can’t believe dorney beat sfga and Hershey park to a certain coaster style. Also prepandemic dorney was possibly going with a wooden shuttle coaster. Im glad they scrapped that and went bigger
I believe Dorney has sound restrictions not height restrictions. Steel Force was initially going to be 230ft.
The last thing I expected clicking on a roller coaster video was a carti leak instrumental in the background lmao
5:37 Meanwhile Der Schwur des Kärnarn at Hansa park who didnt sacrifice any intensity for theming......
I've been on mandrill mayhem and I'll say its an amazing ride just not much when compared to something like the swarm
Went on mandrill mayhem on sla school end of year trip and I have to say it is the best at Chessington but it’s SOO small. That’s a theme with Chessington.
Do a hot take 5 I have a hot take, raptor at cedar point is underrated
Same with Montu both awesome Inverted coasters 💯🔥
Montu needs to be higher in is top 25
@@JAGsFamily80montu gets consistently ranked as a top tier invert lol
People want taller, faster, longer and greater intensity. I think the parks are only looking at their investors, and if it means sacrifices to their additions, so be it! At least the board is happy, yes?
We have little kids riding all the B&M at Wonderland and they love it! It's clear that we have reached new heights with scare tolerance, we need more!
They can do things with small spaces so parks don’t have to remove other attractions and with dogs be coasters they can make steep drops to get the desired speeds without getting too tall
I think this is happening to all coasters in general. The family thrill coaster market is expanding rapidly with companies such as RMC joining in. A lot of parks are going down the family thrill coaster route because they already have extreme rides, the GP will like these rides more as they're less intense, it appeals to a wider audience and they're cheaper.
What about nemesis, oblivion and air/Galactica? There small in height but all 3 are amazing rides
B&M Intamin and Rocky Mountain Construction are the best coaster manufacturers in my opinion
There is a even smaller Wingcoaster at 55.8 Feet at Legoland Deutschland, and unlike the one in England it´s a full circuit coaster with a Lift Hill. Looks kinda wrong to see a short 5-Car Train and tight Elements on a Wing Coaster, but from what I heard so far it´s still apparently a fun ride.
That being said, I feel like most Parks began to understand that just having the biggest, fastest, longest and most intense coasters kinda doesn´t matter. I mean, why bother with building a Giga to please a few Enthusiasts and maybe win an award or two when at the end of the day a Hyper is probably going to please the crowds at least as well, if not more so because it doesn´t look as scary too them. Same thing with the Dive´s, a 150 footer looks more managble to the average park guest than a 200+ one.
Baron 1898, Krake, Oblivion the Black Hole and Valkyria have been around for years and are all about the same height or shorter than Emperor, Iron Menace and Dr. Diabolical. There's nothing really new about smaller dive coasters.
B&M still offer the larger model coasters. But parks want budget friendly options that offer a good experience.
Rides are getting shorter and shorter which sucks for enthusiasts but for the GP and park they are marketed as a brand new ride. Most people when they hear Brand new ride, 90 degree drop, loops etc they get excited. Coaster enthusiasts are like.. Umm... it's been done before, breaks no records, is short, not all that great honestly...
The GP and marketing budgets/teams of these parks greatly outweight the coaster enthusiast population (sadly). SeaWorld Orlando is a prime example of this. In 2016 they installed a B&M Hyper, It did good for a few years but hardly ever had a line. They have moved to Ice Breaker and Pipeline, both much smaller, shorter ride experiences. Still brings in the crowed for a "new" attraction and are marketable as that at a fraction of the price.
The layout is giving Six Flags vibes.
whenever i see a new coastoons video im so happy
In my opinion it's because they realized size doesn't matter, it's how you use it. (If you know what I mean)
mini dives sound better then the bigger dives… parks would rather spend money on a good quality ride with a good layout then a simple one trick pony like Sheikra and Griffon. those rides were only built like that to break records and fuel coaster wars so they aren’t as great quality.
Chessington is mainly a family park, but I feel when you have a ARROW SUSPENDED then you could justify maybe 100 feet for the family coaster
I'm okay with it a small dive coaster in a park like Dorney. That being said. I don't really like dive coasters to begin with. I love them before I actually learned more and more about coasters. I road Valraven and although I did fly out of my seat falling on the first drop, the rest I couldn't care less. Its older so it had a shook and I felt a lot of positive forces on it, especially during the Valleys.
I'm ALL IN on RMC, and Intiman blitz coasters. Follow by a hyper. So after they take care of all of those, perhaps a smaller dive would be nice. I rather them get an interesting rail coaster or hell RMC new wild mouse which I thought was silly till I watched it a few times.
What's your opinion on why Kings Island didn't make Orion top out at say 326+? They went epic with D-Back and Banshee...I think it was more of a Cedar Fair decision, partly because of not wanting to top Millennium, and because they wanted a GP pleaser vs enthusiast pleaser.
B&M builds what parks want and what the chain want to spend relative to the park. Dorney is a small park bottom 1/3rd of Cedar Fair parks they aren't getting a massive B&M b/c the finances of the park don't support the needed ROI. The same can be said for why Sea World San Diego got a small dive(height limit) & smaller park in the chain so they got 11-12M coaster while Sea World Orlando got a 20M+ B&M Surf coaster. Also this same park size and finances is why Kings Island got a 30M B&M giga and Dorney got what they got. To summarize this all., manufacturers will build whatever parks will pay for.
I did not know this till now so good vid and speed is amazing and that needs big
bro thank you for reminding me about the twisted spike giga at bgw i completley forgot about that
omg, even coasters are experiencing shrinkflation... i cant take it anymore
So, B&M dives ARE NOT getting “smaller”, they are returning back to original size. SheiKra was DESIGNED to be a record breaker. Griffon was just supposed to be the sister. But then coaster casuals *ate it up* and then suddenly Valravyn and Yukon Striker had to become a thing. Now that the economy has been screwed by 2019-2020, smaller parks are getting their hands on smaller models. The appeal is the DROP, meaning whatever you get is just gravy. Oblivion, the MOTHER of all wasn’t a 200 foot beast. It played on darkness and the diving motion.
As for Iron Menace, it’s supposed to reference the literal local steel mills that made up the backbone of the local economy. Allentown has built itself ON that legacy. Iron Menace also plays off the neighboring Scream Factory and its metal theme. It makes sense.
As for your cheap shot at DarKoaster, it’s meant to be a stepping stone between Invadr and bigger coasters. It’s not meant to be a capacity monster. It’s an air conditioned appetizer for bigger things. And considering I was 12 when the OG opened, I rather DarKoaster happen than another Dark Knight Rises coaster.
hey coastoons, on the topic of dive coasters could they be a giga coaster? i mean it could be possible
Iron menace was the name of a furnace in a factory I swear
Hot take: Most parks should follow SFOG's route by letting the GP name a new coaster.
Mandrill Mayhem ain't even the smallest Wing Coaster 🤣
this really shows it’s not really about what the park ask for. i mean they give a idea but it’s really what b&m wants to do
B&M will make nearly whatever the park wants if they can afford it. They'll make suggestions along the way, but money talks, even to B&M.
Man shut up you don't know what the hell you talking about it's whatever the park wants and can afford it's space all that matters
and what about baron 1898 it got built almost 5 years before covid and i believe this is one of the shortest ones out there
Your wrong, what are you talking about? Fury 325 is big, they make what customers want.
still waiting for the “i was wrong about dragster” video
They’ve made inverts a lot tamer
there's a 55ft wing in germany at legoland deutschland
Coastoons uploaded let’s gooooooo!!!! 🎉
Awesome
Shrink faction is also with roller coasters damn
It isn’t just b&m gravity group is almost exclusively making family woodies now
Acting like small dives are weird is funny. Look outside the United States for once
I would love b&m wing coaster converted to x2
Then you got the S&S 4D which no matter how small it'll drain your entire bank account. Thank god Magic Mountain is close by and X2 is my #1
No small B&Ms nemesis 43ft but it is amazing
Man I miss those big giant b&ms
Your take on B&M makes no sense. They are not getting smaller they just build what the park wants. Kind of like automakers you can get a sports car with a basic V6, V8 and then the ultimate performace. Example the Mustang. Also its not like B&M has stopped building massive coasters. In the last 11 years they've built 3 Gigas, longest invert, tallest faster wing coaster, 2 massive dive coasters, 2 awesome hypers. Dorney park doesn't have the budget or the need to build the "est" of a coaster.
Arnt coasters that are more small and compact really good, Smiller, L loco, and Raptors.
Phoenix rising pretty much confirms this
Coastoons do a video and Valley Fair please
Just like Tiny homes they making "smart coasters " everything is shrinking.
Wasn’t Emperor planned before the pandemic though?
Can’t be the only one who read B&M coaster as B A M
One word, Inflation and in this case, ‘Shrinkflation’
B&Ms are expensive regardless of size. If parks want to save money they aren’t putting in a B&M. Wing coasters aren’t very intense and while they may look nice they don’t draw in the crowds like a dive coaster. People today prefer to ride a coaster with one big drop then compact elements after which is why RMC and Intimin is so popular. Big loops and immelmans aren’t super intense elements and very generic now a days. This is why B&Ms are shrinking unless they are hypers. Compact layouts are more intense then massive element to element layouts.
There are small dives all across Europe. This isn’t new.
If only there was a b&m hyper invert.
I don’t get why everyone hates on floorless coasters
Not making a trip to Dorney for Iron Menace? GOOD, WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE!!! LESS LINES FOR THE NEWEST GROUND-UP COASTER IN THE PARK'S HISTORY SINCE 2005. DON'T BE SUCH A BABA BOOEY NEXT TIME!!
what is a baba booey
I want another montu like ride
I really like your style of videos but you are way too US-centric (in every video), and that's okay when focussing on us-centric topics, but when talking about an evolution of a manufacture you can't just look at whats in your country. The smaller dive coasters were instruduced 12 years ago in Europe, and were really succesfull (Krake, baron, Oblivion the black hole, Valkyria). In this Video you are acting like Emperor was the first small dive coaster lol, it's just a concept from overseas that caught on in the US.
Besides, I think you left out on a major reason for the models shrinking. One of the main reasons parks go all out for height are world records for marketing, but nowadays, the records to brake are just too high, looking at the dive model, the record is at 220ish feet, thats insanely high for a dive, parks don't have the amount of space and/or money at that level of height. And if you can't get the record (which every tall dive coaster did in the past, just to be outclassed from the next one), why build tall? if you can't market it as the tallest dive in the world, the crowds wont care if it is 30feet taller or smaller.
The early B&M inverts were small
Cost??? Parks aren't ordering bigger ones?
5:27 Lego land dive ;)
Sadly my credit s aren't that much, so sadly I didn't ride any bigger or whippier rides. But would love to ride one...
Uhh what dude? Six Flags has B&Ms in every park and was home to the first B&M invert and countless iconic hypers like Raging Bull and Nitro. Dorney has Hydra and Talon too so what are you even talking about.
There have been a grand total of 2 B&Ms built at Six Flags parks since they went bankrupt
"200 feet for an invert!"
The tallest invert is literally less than 200 feet and most of them are closer to 150.
Also B&M just got done making a wave of massive gigas and dive coasters for Cedar Fair parks.