Nice breakdown, thanks for doing the work I've been too lazy to do! I look forward to the next ones. One note on my flop size, I was fully aware small is the way to go, but genuinely felt like it was worth giving up a little something to put you in spots with sizes its less likely you have studied against. I don't know anyone who uses half pot there, I certainly don't... but figured it may be tougher to play against, at minimal cost.
Appears to have worked, given that he feels he miss-played flop and turn because of it. I have no idea if that comes +ev overall, but putting your opponent outside of their comfort zone and forcing them to make mistakes can't be all bad. Well done!
There's no doubt that easier + higher EV is a compelling reason to play a strategy. But take it from a chess player, there are advantages to playing unusual strategies that give up only a little objective edge, but which take your opponents into areas of the game tree where they are unfamiliar or uncomfortable. Don't think that Negreanu's flop play, for example, is "bad".
Yeah that might work against less experienced players, but not when you're not playing against the HU goat. Doug isn't some amateur that's gonna get confused by a slightly odd sizing.
@@natef3553 This video says otherwise. the GOAT doesn’t adjust to the odd sizing, he tries to apply a similar strategy to small sizes and raises too much, only to get to the river and make a value bet that he acknowledges is exploitable in a big spot. Score one for street poker, there are valuable lessons there.
Wild to think how many different lanes of poker are in your life right while also being a fairly new dad… all while not so long ago you stepped back… congrats on how all is going and thanks for both creating and being part of so much content recently.
Daniel's flop bet size didn't leave him room to maneuver on later streets. This is why position and SPR is so important in higher level poker. Smallish difference, a 25% vs 50% pot sized raise, makes compounded difference on later streets.
From a standpoint of winning the match overall, is it better to bet a smaller size on the river in this situation? Due to the club coming off, it's going to be tough for Daniel to call an all-in without two pair or better. A bet of something like 20k-23k into the 75k pot, leaving 33k-36k behind, will make it very hard for Daniel to fold any ace, and after calling he'll be outchipped 3:1. It's really hard to put him on 2 pair or set when he just calls the turn. Do you ever have bluffs here and just want to protect those bets?
For the graph in the beginning how is his green line only slightly lower than his blue line if his red line is way down in the negatives? Isn't it green line = blue line + red line?
I think this is part of where so many people get lost. Exg: “as you get deeper you want to open larger On button” is this in a HU configuration or full ring as well? Theres so many small pieces of information out there gor such a complex game people hear these things and apply them where they dont get applied.
The hand would have been a lot more interesting if the river didn't improve your hand, yet you still went with the same line. Sounds like Daniel would have called if for a different river card
Great hand, well explained, thanks Douglas Polk Esq. 🎉 Yeah, 22% makes a lot of sense out of the big here. Dnegs' half pot raise did block your raising potential. Raising 54s on the flop leaves the betting open for a Dnegs top pair shove.
I do know that sometimes solver will suggest 0-1% raises unless you allow it to x/r to a very small unorthodox sizing like x/r 25% but maybe not on this board.
Absolutely spot on!! - please guys be quiet when DNegs is going through his thought processes on the river - very simple rule really: when the GOATS are talking, we listen and don’t talk over them😀
I dont like to rely on computers that much, as the end goal is to basically put a cpu in your skull. Just mix up what you do sometimes. This is simply arcanely technical and fallacious, bc ya have to get the same exact spot v the same exact player MANY times to make the math work. I enjoy the misunderstanding bc I have profited from it, especially in games other than NLHE.
The new system are just a reason to believe Everything is right 😊im a old school poker player i think about it and i feel that The kid play it right.Because this dont understand a read and experience! Just my opinion!But i like you chanel to it great that u teach new generation 🤘 Greetings cz75 shadow (Stu Ungar)😊
I get that this is heads up and high stakes. But in reality how many poker players are visualizing chart ranges and calculating bet sizes like this? Maybe only the winning ones I guess.
The technical aspect of this seems so simple and yet when you get into the weeds it kinda makes me want to quit poker. Like it’s not even fun to worry about .5 more chips or am I doing the optimal thing etc. I know it a real money game but geez. Takes the fun out of gambling
Bruh, this hand a player many normies consider to be the goat bet half pot on flop for the lulz. Solutions are a lot harder to implement in real time than anyone will have you think and if u think anyone is playing solver poker in your local live game ur dreamin
I really dont think Poker needs to be this complicated. I bet the course you've made is so ridiculously confusing there's no point for most people to even bother.
Eh, I enjoy nerding out and I will thoroughly enjoy watching it. Plus, for folks who do wanna get really good a heads up deep dive is a great way to get really strong at theory. But yeah, you can crush a bunch of games without doing all this.
Great breakdown. Very much enjoyed this. I’m an amateur player and don’t use solvers or optimizers. With that disclosure aside-I’m not sure I like Doug pushing all in on the river. If Doug feels like he has the best hand-I think making a medium size bet that actually entices Daniel to call maximizes his chances of winning more. My concern about going all in is that there is a likelihood that Daniel could have caught a bigger flush on the river and set a trap. By going all in-I think Doug reduces his chances of winning more chips, and increases his chances of possibly losing a lot more than he needs to.
I don't think he would have played this hand the same way if it wasn't a heads-up game. I believe the rationale is, if you work that hard to get there, you just have to go with it; If he bets half pot he already put nearly his whole stack in and can't fold anyway.
Who designed the solver and decided exactly what inputs to use for sims, and how do we know that every piece of logic the designer used for all of this is correct?
nobody "decides" what to input or the logic of it. Poker at its very core is a math game. That's all a solver is, it breaks down the math aspect so us humans can grasp it
sigh..... i,m kinda new to poker, and these solver things are hard to understand, my question is , are we supposed to remember all thiese bets and raises ? and when ? and how much? i guess i,m just gonna keep flying by the seat of my pants .
An off suit 2 would give Doug the straight. This would still be the winning hand, but would have been much more difficult for Daniel to see than the obvious fact that Doug may have hit a flush on the river.
Thank you for replying. My thought process was that you prob jamming 90%+ of rivers. anyway, I thought it might make sense to jam turn at some frequency (which will make sense with sets as value and combo draws as bluffs)
Doug, you're smart and I know this should be intuitive to your experience: study naturality within linear algebra and de/compose all these into a consolidated set of matrices vs. deduction, analysis, and memorization (like multiplication tables). I do love the breakdown, but the delta/lambda/etc can do this- it's the origin of the charts anyway w/o a doubt + some brute force (hopefully not any derivation of emotion).
I'm not understanding why Daniel didn't call someone an idiot, yell about how stupid his opponent is, then storm out of the studio. Wait... sorry, nevermind. That's what Phil would have done.
NO! I have never bought, or read a book on poker, nor do I buy into all this crap. I also hate the new philosophy of having a blocker card, it's utterly stupid, unless you have the A of a possible flush, that could be helpfull! I simply play the odds, and would have never played this hand like Doug, or Daniel! I would have called the $4k bet, but the K turn I would have checked back. Sure, I got there on the river, and didn't reap the rewards of Doug's careless play, but it was much safer. When Doug raised on the flop, having Daniel's hand, I would have either raised, or shoved making him fold! Daniel didn't play this great either! Of course, I am nowhere near their stature in poker so what do I know! 😁👍😎✌🗽
Depends on your definition of poker pros. But if I have your definition right, I'd say like 80-90%? But if you consider 1-2$ and 2-5$ grinders "pros", the % probably go down a little.
@@Brazz27 I'm an old school player, and those solvers mean nothing to me. I go by the odds, and that takes a mathematical ability most players don't seem to have so they need these charts which are often wrong in my opinion. I don't know, whatever works for you, go for it!😎✌🗽
@@TOM-C. Charts are not "wrong". They are the optimal strategy to use. Ive been playing for a while too, but I learned to appreciate what the solvers gives us. If you don't want to learn anything from them, you'll be at a disadvantage against players who do know it (nobody knows it perfectly though). But if you never play with people like that, you can still do ok.
@@TOM-C. It's not that it works for him. It's mathematically and empirically proven that it works. The solvers use a math branch called game theory and processing power of cloud computing to literally solve the optimal strategy. You're not smarter than that. Not even close. But you are entitled to believe that you are😆
All these eval's with a one card "blocker" are a joke! You block absolutely nothing and barely reduce your opponent's odds. Also, there is NO SUCH THING AS EQUITY IN ANY POKER HAND!!! Stop misusing that word already. All of you have nerve calling yourselves pros while misusing a simple word. Look up the definition for pete's sake
How embarrassing is this comment for you? To tell someone they don't know what the word "equity" means when in fact you yourself don't understand the term
These guys use computers to tell them how to play, Daniel gets worse buy buying to that shit. So, Daniel is heads up and only beaten by an AQ or AK no ones is raised a flopped set, just put it on on the turn and make him pay to draw at a 30 percent chance to win on the River, he HAS TO FOLD. Instead he calls 21 k, LMAO. These chumps are to risk averse.
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why can't those announcers STFU when daniel is working through the hand
Nice breakdown, thanks for doing the work I've been too lazy to do! I look forward to the next ones. One note on my flop size, I was fully aware small is the way to go, but genuinely felt like it was worth giving up a little something to put you in spots with sizes its less likely you have studied against. I don't know anyone who uses half pot there, I certainly don't... but figured it may be tougher to play against, at minimal cost.
The goat 🐐
It’s cool hearing the line of thinking from the other side. Wish guys involved in these hands commented more!
A rematch would be dope
Sure you did
Appears to have worked, given that he feels he miss-played flop and turn because of it. I have no idea if that comes +ev overall, but putting your opponent outside of their comfort zone and forcing them to make mistakes can't be all bad. Well done!
There's no doubt that easier + higher EV is a compelling reason to play a strategy. But take it from a chess player, there are advantages to playing unusual strategies that give up only a little objective edge, but which take your opponents into areas of the game tree where they are unfamiliar or uncomfortable. Don't think that Negreanu's flop play, for example, is "bad".
chess shmess
Yeah that might work against less experienced players, but not when you're not playing against the HU goat. Doug isn't some amateur that's gonna get confused by a slightly odd sizing.
@@natef3553He literally made a mistake due to unorthodox sizing with the flop raise and admitted that was the reason in the video.
@@natef3553 This video says otherwise. the GOAT doesn’t adjust to the odd sizing, he tries to apply a similar strategy to small sizes and raises too much, only to get to the river and make a value bet that he acknowledges is exploitable in a big spot. Score one for street poker, there are valuable lessons there.
TH-cam comments are hilarious.
Wild to think how many different lanes of poker are in your life right while also being a fairly new dad… all while not so long ago you stepped back… congrats on how all is going and thanks for both creating and being part of so much content recently.
Daniel's flop bet size didn't leave him room to maneuver on later streets.
This is why position and SPR is so important in higher level poker. Smallish difference, a 25% vs 50% pot sized raise, makes compounded difference on later streets.
Great breakdown! Love these hand analyses.
I love when Doug tells us what the point of the matter is
From a standpoint of winning the match overall, is it better to bet a smaller size on the river in this situation? Due to the club coming off, it's going to be tough for Daniel to call an all-in without two pair or better. A bet of something like 20k-23k into the 75k pot, leaving 33k-36k behind, will make it very hard for Daniel to fold any ace, and after calling he'll be outchipped 3:1. It's really hard to put him on 2 pair or set when he just calls the turn. Do you ever have bluffs here and just want to protect those bets?
I’m just a 1/2 misreg end boss
Doug, i was hoping you'd make a video about Wesley's scam. Been waiting for that one
Is there any way to still get the older heads up poker course?
Email support and you can purchase it
For the graph in the beginning how is his green line only slightly lower than his blue line if his red line is way down in the negatives? Isn't it green line = blue line + red line?
I love this, what does negs do if you 5 x the flop. Does negs fold any riv jam except an A,K or J even without a club?
We've come a long way since the retirement videos.
Love these breakdowns Doug!!!!!
4:27 was crazy. I thought screen froze for a seconds.
I think this is part of where so many people get lost. Exg: “as you get deeper you want to open larger On button” is this in a HU configuration or full ring as well? Theres so many small pieces of information out there gor such a complex game people hear these things and apply them where they dont get applied.
The hand would have been a lot more interesting if the river didn't improve your hand, yet you still went with the same line. Sounds like Daniel would have called if for a different river card
Great hand, well explained, thanks Douglas Polk Esq. 🎉
Yeah, 22% makes a lot of sense out of the big here.
Dnegs' half pot raise did block your raising potential.
Raising 54s on the flop leaves the betting open for a Dnegs top pair shove.
It wasn't a "half pot raise", it was a "half pot bet"
I do know that sometimes solver will suggest 0-1% raises unless you allow it to x/r to a very small unorthodox sizing like x/r 25% but maybe not on this board.
I mean vs the larger flop cbetting sizings.
What not raise the flop w 4c5c so you can try to get a free turn card ? I know that's a limit strategy but couldn't it carry to nl?
huh?
@@VVeZoX clearly you don't play poker so it'd be like explaining it to a wall
Negranu looks like he created himself in a video game. Wtf.
What a show!!!! Congratz both!!
Given this runout, how could Doug have enough bluffs to make calling correct for DN?
I wanted those guys to shut up so I could hear Daniel’s thought process!😡 2 poker giants gettin down, you’ve gotta love it!🤘
Absolutely spot on!! - please guys be quiet when DNegs is going through his thought processes on the river - very simple rule really: when the GOATS are talking, we listen and don’t talk over them😀
extremely big problem PokerGo has. The commentators never shut up
Ohhh that course looks like a banger!
I dont like to rely on computers that much, as the end goal is to basically put a cpu in your skull. Just mix up what you do sometimes. This is simply arcanely technical and fallacious, bc ya have to get the same exact spot v the same exact player MANY times to make the math work. I enjoy the misunderstanding bc I have profited from it, especially in games other than NLHE.
FINALLY!!! The vid! I can't wait to see what you would do, in contrast to what I would do! (90/10 call/raise pre), raise to $10k on the flop.
It was really interesting to see you show the solver. I had considered 80/20, but I thought that 80% would be just too loose. Don't you think so?
The new system are just a reason to believe Everything is right 😊im a old school poker player i think about it and i feel that The kid play it right.Because this dont understand a read and experience! Just my opinion!But i like you chanel to it great that u teach new generation 🤘 Greetings cz75 shadow (Stu Ungar)😊
Hey Doug, I've always enjoyed your analysis of hands, but the deep diving in the software wasn't interesting to me. Just sayin.
I get that this is heads up and high stakes. But in reality how many poker players are visualizing chart ranges and calculating bet sizes like this? Maybe only the winning ones I guess.
The technical aspect of this seems so simple and yet when you get into the weeds it kinda makes me want to quit poker. Like it’s not even fun to worry about .5 more chips or am I doing the optimal thing etc. I know it a real money game but geez. Takes the fun out of gambling
Well good thing we only have to worry about it enough to beat the table, not the Doug showing off solver memes to advertise his course on youtube
Bruh, this hand a player many normies consider to be the goat bet half pot on flop for the lulz. Solutions are a lot harder to implement in real time than anyone will have you think and if u think anyone is playing solver poker in your local live game ur dreamin
I really dont think Poker needs to be this complicated. I bet the course you've made is so ridiculously confusing there's no point for most people to even bother.
Eh, I enjoy nerding out and I will thoroughly enjoy watching it.
Plus, for folks who do wanna get really good a heads up deep dive is a great way to get really strong at theory.
But yeah, you can crush a bunch of games without doing all this.
you also aren't playing heads up for hundreds of thousands, so, ykno
Great breakdown. Very much enjoyed this. I’m an amateur player and don’t use solvers or optimizers. With that disclosure aside-I’m not sure I like Doug pushing all in on the river. If Doug feels like he has the best hand-I think making a medium size bet that actually entices Daniel to call maximizes his chances of winning more. My concern about going all in is that there is a likelihood that Daniel could have caught a bigger flush on the river and set a trap. By going all in-I think Doug reduces his chances of winning more chips, and increases his chances of possibly losing a lot more than he needs to.
I don't think he would have played this hand the same way if it wasn't a heads-up game. I believe the rationale is, if you work that hard to get there, you just have to go with it; If he bets half pot he already put nearly his whole stack in and can't fold anyway.
I was hoping for a new video just yesterday!
Miss the frequent uploads 😢
what the heck. feels criminal to be this early. love your work tho Doug. blocking out the next 20 minutes for this gem.
Who designed the solver and decided exactly what inputs to use for sims, and how do we know that every piece of logic the designer used for all of this is correct?
nobody "decides" what to input or the logic of it. Poker at its very core is a math game. That's all a solver is, it breaks down the math aspect so us humans can grasp it
The timing of uploads and the introduction of new courses/ opening new card rooms is no coincidence
The ultimate in clickbait title :p You're missing the "and" in there..
sigh..... i,m kinda new to poker, and these solver things are hard to understand, my question is , are we supposed to remember all thiese bets and raises ? and when ? and how much? i guess i,m just gonna keep flying by the seat of my pants .
That's my guy Doug
Daniel rockin that beard
hello, Doug
Lol
Didn’t understand the off suit 2 comments.
An off suit 2 would give Doug the straight. This would still be the winning hand, but would have been much more difficult for Daniel to see than the obvious fact that Doug may have hit a flush on the river.
How do you not? Look how an off suit 2 would change the board...do you even understand poker
Yes. I saw it weeks ago after the first comment. Misread the board.
Who's Doug poke
so where is the STRAIGHT FLUSH?? Nice troll bait, 10/10
I’m gonna be pissed if this hand doesn’t feature significant rake
Is Doug as good as Airball?
Straight flush??
read the title again buddy
Well good luck
Hell yeah this was a surprise drop!
Why show ur hand at the end? I know ur friends and maybe that's why but is it really beneficial to show or not to show?
Who said that the romance had gone out of poker 😳
Dougie who are you making this for? You know damn well 99% of viewers don't know what piosolver even is
I remember when his videos were entertaining
None of this applies to a non pro playing low- mid stakes
@dougpolkpoker Great analysis and great match! Q: why wont you consider overbet jamming the turn with all that equity?
Why would he do that?
Because it is a less valuable strategy!
Thank you for replying. My thought process was that you prob jamming 90%+ of rivers. anyway, I thought it might make sense to jam turn at some frequency (which will make sense with sets as value and combo draws as bluffs)
20 mins of edging and you didn't even get paid off
AJ is cards that are 88 % better than anyone elses
But Doug, you are never critical of your own play, and yet you were here. It almost sounds like random YT commenters got this one wrong.
Why do the small pictures of the players at the bottom look like they are AI generated?
🔥🤯🔥**I HAVE A STRAIGHT FLUSH**🔥🤯🔥(draw)
Quick breakdown.Doug plays a suited hand and hits the flush on the river in a brilliant move goes all in.
Negreanu won the next 26 hands.
The Supreme Leader
I hate it when commentators talk over the players.
Did you just show the cards? I sure hope you didn't lose this match in the end
Doug, you're smart and I know this should be intuitive to your experience: study naturality within linear algebra and de/compose all these into a consolidated set of matrices vs. deduction, analysis, and memorization (like multiplication tables). I do love the breakdown, but the delta/lambda/etc can do this- it's the origin of the charts anyway w/o a doubt + some brute force (hopefully not any derivation of emotion).
Watching this I can see why Airball lost a mil HU in no time
Oh no
Your the man Doug. #lovepoker
*You're
I Have A STRAIGHT FLUSH Draw vs Daniel Negreanu ? did you mean a straight and a flush ?
no? he has a straight flush draw... the 6 of clubs give him one...
do you not know what the word "draw" means?
How is that a straight flush?
??? he never said it was
@VVeZoX you are right, it was a draw, all I bothered to read was "I Have A STRAIGHT FLUSH"
I have a STRAIGHT FLUSH
draw
This breakdown is almost as useless as Doug Polk's reputation #BradGang
Do you think Daniel's slight off play was intentional?
He explained it in a comment here already.
Recent lol
I'm not understanding why Daniel didn't call someone an idiot, yell about how stupid his opponent is, then storm out of the studio.
Wait... sorry, nevermind. That's what Phil would have done.
Doug knew negs be watching so he bought out the STATS (plenty of it)
I love that you are making science out of something that is basically chance
Well, in the end it's calculating probabilities, so mathematics, a science... 😉
Doug needs to start roasting people again…seemed pretty dry
Parkour
I play Doug’s video at 1.5x speed and he talks at a normal speed then
CLICK bait
You look dead while being alive if that’s even a thing
Luckily it took exactly 20 mins to do this breakdown
What percent of professional players use these solvers? Do the old schoolers think about this too?
NO! I have never bought, or read a book on poker, nor do I buy into all this crap. I also hate the new philosophy of having a blocker card, it's utterly stupid, unless you have the A of a possible flush, that could be helpfull! I simply play the odds, and would have never played this hand like Doug, or Daniel! I would have called the $4k bet, but the K turn I would have checked back. Sure, I got there on the river, and didn't reap the rewards of Doug's careless play, but it was much safer. When Doug raised on the flop, having Daniel's hand, I would have either raised, or shoved making him fold! Daniel didn't play this great either! Of course, I am nowhere near their stature in poker so what do I know! 😁👍😎✌🗽
Depends on your definition of poker pros. But if I have your definition right, I'd say like 80-90%?
But if you consider 1-2$ and 2-5$ grinders "pros", the % probably go down a little.
@@Brazz27 I'm an old school player, and those solvers mean nothing to me. I go by the odds, and that takes a mathematical ability most players don't seem to have so they need these charts which are often wrong in my opinion. I don't know, whatever works for you, go for it!😎✌🗽
@@TOM-C. Charts are not "wrong". They are the optimal strategy to use. Ive been playing for a while too, but I learned to appreciate what the solvers gives us.
If you don't want to learn anything from them, you'll be at a disadvantage against players who do know it (nobody knows it perfectly though). But if you never play with people like that, you can still do ok.
@@TOM-C. It's not that it works for him. It's mathematically and empirically proven that it works. The solvers use a math branch called game theory and processing power of cloud computing to literally solve the optimal strategy. You're not smarter than that. Not even close. But you are entitled to believe that you are😆
20 minutes of my life I'm never getting back, totally boring Doug
All these eval's with a one card "blocker" are a joke! You block absolutely nothing and barely reduce your opponent's odds. Also, there is NO SUCH THING AS EQUITY IN ANY POKER HAND!!! Stop misusing that word already. All of you have nerve calling yourselves pros while misusing a simple word. Look up the definition for pete's sake
How embarrassing is this comment for you? To tell someone they don't know what the word "equity" means when in fact you yourself don't understand the term
too much yapping ...
Why is there no talk of R*p*ng mothers? This is not REAL poker.
So much bla-bla-bla to explain pure luck. A bluf that was going to fail miserably turned into a huge hit on the river.
this is all bollocks - it just depends on what's turned.
Watch your comments or Doug will turn you in to TH-cam saying you hurt his feelings.
Apparently he can't handle anyone's opinion but his own
what do you mean he'll turn you into TH-cam
He could just block you. Doubt here cares about your comme t.
@@mrhumble2937 seems like he is a big baby
@@mbradycf he complains that you hurt his feelings
@@lynndragoman2454 words can be hurtful
1
Honestly all this technical analysis takes the fun out of poker and makes me miss the old days. Maybe we should go back to fixed limit.
who's we? limit's still there, go play it
3 letters P L O learn it nerd
zz click baite!
Why's it say Straight Flush? Click bait?
Does the 6 of clubs make a straight flush?
Try reading the word after...
easy fold on the river for daniel. doug should have read that and went for salvage payoff bet on the river.
These guys use computers to tell them how to play, Daniel gets worse buy buying to that shit. So, Daniel is heads up and only beaten by an AQ or AK no ones is raised a flopped set, just put it on on the turn and make him pay to draw at a 30 percent chance to win on the River, he HAS TO FOLD. Instead he calls 21 k, LMAO. These chumps are to risk averse.
It seems you don't understand these 2 are deep in the solver streets. Daniel knows his opponent and what he is capable of. You wouldn't stand a chance
useless breakdown of a very simple hand that even a 1/2 player would play the same. Nice Doug 😂