Ezekiel 36:25-27 (KJV) 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
John 1:12-13 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Yep… it was an interesting talk… even more interesting it’s archived and spoken about… I’m so confused in life.. and I can’t tell a therapist about this story ..and how it is the same conversation I had.. with the same person mentioned… shake my head… so confused…
When he makes reference to 1st John (before 9 mins into the sermon), why on EARTH would he truncate the verses??? WHY??? He doesn't quote all of 1st John 5:1 & 5:5. He just says "believe" but the verses do NOT just say "believe". The whole context of the epistle makes it clear that it's of the utmost importance what you believe. And it's very precise (and repeated so that everyone understands its importance). I'm forever suspicious of men doing this. I was brought up RC (since left obviously) and with hindsight I realized their priests do this all the time and the assumption is that none of the congregation will check what the verses actually say. Is this the case here??
We absolutely must have God dwelling in us: that is the only way we can be led into the truth, led out of slavery to sin and led into His righteousness. But that is NOT actually what Jesus was talking about when He said we must be "born again" or "born of the spirit." Jesus gave Nicodemus an illustration of what it's like to be born of the spirit: "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit" (John 3:8). No one who claims to be born again or born of the spirit is like the wind. They are not invisible, nor are they able to move around without being seen. Can you do that? Of course not. Neither can I. *_But Jesus could do that after His resurrection. He could appear and disappear at will._* Remember how He suddenly appeared in the midst of the disciples, and also disappeared? Upon His resurrection Jesus was spirit; He was born of the spirit, and was immortal. The apostle Paul described Jesus as the "firstfruits." Jesus was the first to be "born of the spirit," to go from flesh to spirit, to go from mortal life to immortal spirit life. Those who are Christ's will also be born of the spirit, and become immortal. When? The apostle Paul explained: "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming" (1 Cor 15:23). In 1 Thessalonians Paul described the resurrection of the "dead in Christ" at Jesus' coming, His return: "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first" (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Read Paul's very clear description of the death and resurrection of the elect: "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: *_It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body"_* (1 Corinthians 15:42-44). When we die our natural mortal body, "born of the flesh," is "sown" or planted back into the ground, the grave. At Jesus' return His elect will be "born of the spirit." The elect who have died will be resurrected with an immortal, spiritual body, just as Jesus - the "firstfruits" - was resurrected. Jesus explained to Nicodemus, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6). In other words, they are two different things. *_You can't be both at the same time._* Jesus has not returned yet. His elect have not yet been resurrected immortal. So as of now Jesus is the only man to have become spirit, born of the spirit and immortal. The "dead in Christ" are waiting for their resurrection at Jesus' return. That's when they too will be "born of the spirit" and immortal. Don't get me wrong: I am not saying we don't need or don't have or can't have God's spirit *_dwelling in us_* while we are mortals. We absolutely must have God dwelling in us: that is the only way we can be led into the truth, and led out of slavery to sin and led into His righteousness. What I'm saying is that the real meaning of being "born again" or "born of the spirit" has to do with actually receiving, at the return of Christ, the "spiritual body" Paul wrote about. *_Not until then will we be like this:_* "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit" (John 3:8). ************* Just a side note about this: we *_cannot see or enter or inherit the Kingdom as mortals;_* we must first receive an immortal spirit body at our resurrection at Jesus' return. Both Paul and Jesus explained this. Here's Paul; in this passage the "trumpet" that sounds announces the return of Christ and "sleep" refers to being dead, in the grave: "Now this I say, brethren, that *_flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption._* Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory" (1 Cor 15:50-54). And here's Jesus saying we can't enter the kingdom unless we're born of the spirit: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, *_he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"_* (John 3:5). Paul said we can't inherit the kingdom as mortals; we must first receive an immortal, spirit body. Jesus said we can't see or enter the kingdom unless we're born of the spirit. When Jesus spoke of being "born of the spirit," He was talking about receiving an immortal, spirit body. As Paul explained, we receive our "spiritual body" when Jesus returns. ************* John wrote in 1 John 5:18: "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." Has anyone that _believes_ they're "born of God" or "born again" stopped sinning? No: they're not born of God yet. In this mortal life we - if we are Christ's - are _begotten_ of God: we have God's spirit in us, leading us out of slavery to sin, leading us into truth and teaching us His righteousness.
I have to tell you, what you think you're reading, your not. Number one, Born again means a moral reform. Born means to bring about a new understanding in someone's mind. Again means a second time. Nicodemus has another opportunity through his rabbi Jesus to have a new learning on the new policy law.Spirit means all-embracing in this sense Jesus is implying to Nicodemus that he's speaking to Nicodemus of all which he knows about what he read in the scrolls of Nehemiah Ezra and Joel involving slave-trading through exploitation and that the leaders of Judah and Jerusalem has involvement in this exploit with some Greeks merchants and some Arabs merchants including some Africans merchants who all was selling black young innocent Hebrew boys and girls, of which Jesus saw with his own eyes being taken place, right in the temple storeroom area. Nicodemus was to have a review on foreign policy and this is how we came to the west indies now called north america.Our Hebrew God warned Abraham what would happen to us and now were here in a strange land that is not ours.
The Bible Says The only problem with your theory of the new birth is of course that it's massively and incredibly unbiblical. Dead sinners need new life before they have the capacity to believe. The "wind that blows where it wishes" is the Holy Spirit. In both Hebrew and Greek wind and Spirit are the same word. The Father chooses the elect and gives them to the Son, the Son redeems them, and the Spirit regenerates them when they encounter the gospel. John 1:13, John 6:63, 1st John 5:1 "You were dead, But God, made you alive!" Eph 1
You missed it. Water is necessary and immersed in water is the only way. You don't read of new testament Christians in the Bible not being baptized. We made it optional later on. Simple fact.....they were baptized. Even the ones John baptized were baptized again.
Great lesson and good notes I took. I disagree on the point about the water not signifying baptism. The new birth is signified ceremonially as live birth and water is necessary. In this case water is cleansing and regenerating.
The efforts of some to minimize baptism by immersion remind me of the preacher who spends an entire morning worship trying to convince the congregation that "wine" in the Bible is actually "grape juice/fruit of the vine". (As if acknowledging that it was indeed wine somehow means the congregation w/see that as "permission to get smashed on wine"). No. The baptism discussion is simple to me w/o the obvious scriptural references stating it's required for salvation. If Jesus felt the need to be baptized ("so that all righteousness might be fulfilled"), then for me it's mandatory (for my salvation) that I mimic/follow His example. He is sinless and deemed it necessary. How much moreso me in my filthy rags.
@@NVRAMboi baptism is not required for salvation. Baptism is symbolic of a new life in Christ upon conversion. Read what Jesus said to the thief on the cross. Baptism is an outward manifestation that you have accepted Christ as Savior. Jesus said to Nicodemus, "most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God... 'You must be born again'. Read John 3:1-7 read John 1:25-26 John 3: 16- 18 & John 5:24 just to name a few.
In John 3, water does not have anything to do with baptism. Water is a descriptor what the Spirit is doing in regeneration, namely, cleansing. We know this is the case because one, Christian baptism *had not been instituted yet*. In other words, the baptism you're thinking it refers to did not even exist at this time. Second, Jesus expects Nicodemus to know what He's talking about. Think about that. Jesus expects a first century Rabbi, a teacher of the Old Testament, to know what He's talking about. A man like that would not and could not think of Christian baptism. On top of all this, go back to the Old Testament passage that Jesus is referencing, Ezekiel 36:25-27, and you find water being used in the same spiritual sense. "I will sprinkle clean water on you... I will cleanse you from your idols." It is a spiritual cleansing of the Spirit, not a physical cleansing with water.
Ezekiel 36:25-27 (KJV)
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
John 1:12-13
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Yep… it was an interesting talk… even more interesting it’s archived and spoken about… I’m so confused in life.. and I can’t tell a therapist about this story ..and how it is the same conversation I had.. with the same person mentioned… shake my head… so confused…
May not be perfect, but this is really solid.
When he makes reference to 1st John (before 9 mins into the sermon), why on EARTH would he truncate the verses???
WHY???
He doesn't quote all of 1st John 5:1 & 5:5.
He just says "believe" but the verses do NOT just say "believe".
The whole context of the epistle makes it clear that it's of the utmost importance what you believe. And it's very precise (and repeated so that everyone understands its importance).
I'm forever suspicious of men doing this. I was brought up RC (since left obviously) and with hindsight I realized their priests do this all the time and the assumption is that none of the congregation will check what the verses actually say.
Is this the case here??
We absolutely must have God dwelling in us: that is the only way we can be led into the truth, led out of slavery to sin and led into His righteousness. But that is NOT actually what Jesus was talking about when He said we must be "born again" or "born of the spirit." Jesus gave Nicodemus an illustration of what it's like to be born of the spirit:
"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit" (John 3:8).
No one who claims to be born again or born of the spirit is like the wind. They are not invisible, nor are they able to move around without being seen. Can you do that? Of course not. Neither can I.
*_But Jesus could do that after His resurrection. He could appear and disappear at will._* Remember how He suddenly appeared in the midst of the disciples, and also disappeared? Upon His resurrection Jesus was spirit; He was born of the spirit, and was immortal.
The apostle Paul described Jesus as the "firstfruits." Jesus was the first to be "born of the spirit," to go from flesh to spirit, to go from mortal life to immortal spirit life. Those who are Christ's will also be born of the spirit, and become immortal. When? The apostle Paul explained:
"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming" (1 Cor 15:23).
In 1 Thessalonians Paul described the resurrection of the "dead in Christ" at Jesus' coming, His return:
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first" (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Read Paul's very clear description of the death and resurrection of the elect:
"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
*_It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body"_* (1 Corinthians 15:42-44).
When we die our natural mortal body, "born of the flesh," is "sown" or planted back into the ground, the grave. At Jesus' return His elect will be "born of the spirit." The elect who have died will be resurrected with an immortal, spiritual body, just as Jesus - the "firstfruits" - was resurrected.
Jesus explained to Nicodemus, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6). In other words, they are two different things. *_You can't be both at the same time._*
Jesus has not returned yet. His elect have not yet been resurrected immortal. So as of now Jesus is the only man to have become spirit, born of the spirit and immortal. The "dead in Christ" are waiting for their resurrection at Jesus' return. That's when they too will be "born of the spirit" and immortal.
Don't get me wrong: I am not saying we don't need or don't have or can't have God's spirit *_dwelling in us_* while we are mortals. We absolutely must have God dwelling in us: that is the only way we can be led into the truth, and led out of slavery to sin and led into His righteousness.
What I'm saying is that the real meaning of being "born again" or "born of the spirit" has to do with actually receiving, at the return of Christ, the "spiritual body" Paul wrote about. *_Not until then will we be like this:_*
"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit" (John 3:8).
*************
Just a side note about this: we *_cannot see or enter or inherit the Kingdom as mortals;_* we must first receive an immortal spirit body at our resurrection at Jesus' return. Both Paul and Jesus explained this. Here's Paul; in this passage the "trumpet" that sounds announces the return of Christ and "sleep" refers to being dead, in the grave:
"Now this I say, brethren, that *_flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption._*
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory" (1 Cor 15:50-54).
And here's Jesus saying we can't enter the kingdom unless we're born of the spirit:
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, *_he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"_* (John 3:5).
Paul said we can't inherit the kingdom as mortals; we must first receive an immortal, spirit body. Jesus said we can't see or enter the kingdom unless we're born of the spirit. When Jesus spoke of being "born of the spirit," He was talking about receiving an immortal, spirit body. As Paul explained, we receive our "spiritual body" when Jesus returns.
*************
John wrote in 1 John 5:18:
"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."
Has anyone that _believes_ they're "born of God" or "born again" stopped sinning? No: they're not born of God yet. In this mortal life we - if we are Christ's - are _begotten_ of God: we have God's spirit in us, leading us out of slavery to sin, leading us into truth and teaching us His righteousness.
I have to tell you, what you think you're reading, your not. Number one, Born again means a moral reform. Born means to bring about a new understanding in someone's mind. Again means a second time. Nicodemus has another opportunity through his rabbi Jesus to have a new learning on the new policy law.Spirit means all-embracing in this sense Jesus is implying to Nicodemus that he's speaking to Nicodemus of all which he knows about what he read in the scrolls of Nehemiah Ezra and Joel involving slave-trading through exploitation and that the leaders of Judah and Jerusalem has involvement in this exploit with some Greeks merchants and some Arabs merchants including some Africans merchants who all was selling black young innocent Hebrew boys and girls, of which Jesus saw with his own eyes being taken place, right in the temple storeroom area. Nicodemus was to have a review on foreign policy and this is how we came to the west indies now called north america.Our Hebrew God warned Abraham what would happen to us and now were here in a strange land that is not ours.
The Bible Says
The only problem with your theory of the new birth is of course that it's massively and incredibly unbiblical. Dead sinners need new life before they have the capacity to believe. The "wind that blows where it wishes" is the Holy Spirit. In both Hebrew and Greek wind and Spirit are the same word. The Father chooses the elect and gives them to the Son, the Son redeems them, and the Spirit regenerates them when they encounter the gospel. John 1:13, John 6:63, 1st John 5:1
"You were dead, But God, made you alive!" Eph 1
You missed it. Water is necessary and immersed in water is the only way. You don't read of new testament Christians in the Bible not being baptized. We made it optional later on. Simple fact.....they were baptized. Even the ones John baptized were baptized again.
Great lesson and good notes I took. I disagree on the point about the water not signifying baptism. The new birth is signified ceremonially as live birth and water is necessary. In this case water is cleansing and regenerating.
The efforts of some to minimize baptism by immersion remind me of the preacher who spends an entire morning worship trying to convince the congregation that "wine" in the Bible is actually "grape juice/fruit of the vine". (As if acknowledging that it was indeed wine somehow means the congregation w/see that as "permission to get smashed on wine"). No.
The baptism discussion is simple to me w/o the obvious scriptural references stating it's required for salvation. If Jesus felt the need to be baptized ("so that all righteousness might be fulfilled"), then for me it's mandatory (for my salvation) that I mimic/follow His example. He is sinless and deemed it necessary. How much moreso me in my filthy rags.
@@NVRAMboi baptism is not required for salvation. Baptism is symbolic of a new life in Christ upon conversion. Read what Jesus said to the thief on the cross. Baptism is an outward manifestation that you have accepted Christ as Savior. Jesus said to Nicodemus, "most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God... 'You must be born again'. Read John 3:1-7 read John 1:25-26 John 3: 16- 18 & John 5:24 just to name a few.
In John 3, water does not have anything to do with baptism. Water is a descriptor what the Spirit is doing in regeneration, namely, cleansing. We know this is the case because one, Christian baptism *had not been instituted yet*. In other words, the baptism you're thinking it refers to did not even exist at this time. Second, Jesus expects Nicodemus to know what He's talking about. Think about that. Jesus expects a first century Rabbi, a teacher of the Old Testament, to know what He's talking about. A man like that would not and could not think of Christian baptism.
On top of all this, go back to the Old Testament passage that Jesus is referencing, Ezekiel 36:25-27, and you find water being used in the same spiritual sense. "I will sprinkle clean water on you... I will cleanse you from your idols." It is a spiritual cleansing of the Spirit, not a physical cleansing with water.
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