I know the last puzzle ends in a stalemate anyway because the tie would happen earlier than that but the way you presented it in the video is misplayed because you would just target your opponent with the broadside bombardiers ability if they let themselves get to two life
I don't think it matters for the result, but in the final game, the shoal player would need to cast it before being at two life, otherwise the bombardier can sack the furnace in response aimed at the face to finish the game
I'm the guy of the chancellor+Jace+store land. Second time I participate and second time my deck is in a video for a weird scenario. I don't win a lot but I guess we all have a good time with my stall strategies 😅
Yep, I saw that too. The "may" option does let them keep the solitude, which might matter in some matchups, but when it comes to this matchup it didn't really matter. Still cool find!
I also saw the solitude line. Missed the other two, though. For the first one, I just immediately discarded the "but the opponent has to draw a card" line from my brain, since generally the point of this effect is that it gives absolutely no downside in 3CB. But this is an exception. For the last one, I just didn't consider you could redirect the damage to yourself - genius move to avoid the damage redirection
3 puzzle is a win for the shining shoal player. That card can redirect combat dmg, so if the broadside attack or block the shining shoal player can use it to kill it without losing the goblin.
If the Shining Shoal player ever attempts to redirect combat damage that the Broadside attack is doing, Broadside can respond by sacing an artifact to kill the goblin. The game is a tie for the reasons described in the video.
@@eiszeiten4037 Shoal does not let you do that. "The next X damage that a source of your choice would deal to *you and/or creatures you* control this turn is dealt to any target instead."
The one time I skip over a puzzle video for a month and I've got a deck in it. (Dread deck) Glad to see my deck in a video, even if it is one of my worst meta calls.
In the third puzzle, if P2 the Shining Shoals player waits until they're at 2 life to play Shoals, they lose the game. ex. Bombadier attacke, P2 casts Shoals to redirect damage, P1 sacks Forge in response targeting P2 face (not the goblin) for 2 before Shoals resolves. P2 can't play Shoals before the attack is commited either, as P1 could just delay attacking for the round as they have enough health buffer to lose a round of damage. P2 would have to make the Shoals play on the round they're at 4 life to force a Draw like is described in the video.
Yes, you are correct. I stumbled right at the finish line of delivering the correct answer to that puzzle, but fortunately I think that the actual correct line was close enough to what I presented the people have been able to put it together themselves.
Wow, I am not very good at these. I enjoy the challenge, though, it almost feels like my years of magic experience get in the way here, since you need to think outside the box!
I wish you would explain how the order of the exile and opponent drawing a card would be determined by the rules text in the first puzzle. And if they happen at the same time, why does the jace deck still win?
An effect will resolve in order from top to bottom, so in this case, Baleful Mastery has the draw card portion of its effect take place while Jace is still on the battlefield to replace it with "win the game". If the effect were to exile Jace before the card was drawn, then Jace would not be around to see the card draw and it would not be replaced. So the order that those two elements are written on the card does impact the outcome of that match.
Player 2 wouldn't even have to activate the +1 ability. Player 1 only has 4 mana on his turn so the same problem remains. If he taps his land to put a 5th counter on it and passes player 2 will draw for turn and win.
I think I'm missing something but why is the skrelv player able to play anything? Don't they have to tap remote farm once per turn for 2 mana, and that mana is lost between phases?
Either I am misunderstanding you or you have misread one of the cards. The Skrelv's Hive player is not obligated to use tap their Remote Farm by any effects. Chancellor of the Annex has a one time tax of 1 mana that must be paid on the first spell the Skrelv's player casts or that spell is countered. The Skrelv's player does not have any extra mana to pay for that one time tax, so the first spell they cast will always be countered. If they play Skrelv's first, it gets countered and they can nolonger win the game. For that reason, they *want* to cast Soul Partition first, but as described in the video, Soul Partition will have no valid targets if the Chancellor player opts out of creating a goblin token. This means that the game will end in a tie/stalemate.
Why does Shining Shoal not redirect both the attack damage and the sacrifice ability of Broadside Bombardiers? SS doesn't specify that it only redirects a single instance of damage just the next X damage so it should redirect 7 total. All the damage is also from the chosen source of BB 2 from attack and 2 from ability. I tried to look up any rulings for this and found 614.9 which is a description of redirection and 615.7 which is about damage prevention but describes the same kind of ability that SS has. 615.7 says "Such effects count only the amount of damage; the number of events or sources dealing it doesn’t matter." and without any specific rules for damage redirection specifying otherwise I don't understand why it would work any differently than damage prevention.
You are correct, Shining Shoal works the way you describe, there is just never a point where what you are describing is relevant to this puzzle. Remember that the Broadside Bombardier player is fishing for a tie. If Shining Shoal is cast before attacks are declared, Broadside will choose not to attack to wait out the effect. If Shining Shoal is cast after attacks are declared (before combat damage is dealt), Broadside can boast in response to Shining Shoal to sac Mana Crypt (or Great Furnace if they have already sac'd Mana Crypt) to kill the Goblin before Shining Shoal resolves. The only way for Shining Shoal to prevent both the damage from Broadside Bombardier's ability and attack would be if the Bombardier player cooperated in producing that outcome.
@@MTG3CardBlind I see what I was missing now. The boast ability is used in response so it goes on the stack before Shining Shoal and happens before the damage redirection has a chance to activate. Thanks for taking the time to explain.
I know the last puzzle ends in a stalemate anyway because the tie would happen earlier than that but the way you presented it in the video is misplayed because you would just target your opponent with the broadside bombardiers ability if they let themselves get to two life
Big oopsies on my part, thank you for pointing that out!
I don't think it matters for the result, but in the final game, the shoal player would need to cast it before being at two life, otherwise the bombardier can sack the furnace in response aimed at the face to finish the game
Slight clarification for at 5:55. Random effects are least favorable to the *owner* of the effect, not the controller
So if I owned a card that my opponent controls with a random effect he gets to make it go gangbusters ? why not just have it be the controller ?
@joshuaturner4602 this is because we dont want situations where you use an effect to donate something with a really strong random negative effect
I'm the guy of the chancellor+Jace+store land.
Second time I participate and second time my deck is in a video for a weird scenario.
I don't win a lot but I guess we all have a good time with my stall strategies 😅
i didn't even consider the may ability of forgechan. I did see that they can solitude their own token, though.
Yep, I saw that too.
The "may" option does let them keep the solitude, which might matter in some matchups, but when it comes to this matchup it didn't really matter.
Still cool find!
Neat! I guess there are two solutions here!
I also saw the solitude line. Missed the other two, though.
For the first one, I just immediately discarded the "but the opponent has to draw a card" line from my brain, since generally the point of this effect is that it gives absolutely no downside in 3CB. But this is an exception.
For the last one, I just didn't consider you could redirect the damage to yourself - genius move to avoid the damage redirection
i was player 2 in the 2nd puzzle!
I was player one! This is my first month playing, so very excited to be in a video. What an interesting match
I screwed up in the last one because i forgot great furnace is an artifact and that mana crypt is a spell xD
3 puzzle is a win for the shining shoal player. That card can redirect combat dmg, so if the broadside attack or block the shining shoal player can use it to kill it without losing the goblin.
If the Shining Shoal player ever attempts to redirect combat damage that the Broadside attack is doing, Broadside can respond by sacing an artifact to kill the goblin. The game is a tie for the reasons described in the video.
@@MTG3CardBlind Didnt saw the artifact land. Yep
@@MTG3CardBlindbombardier sacs manacrypt at his own face, shoal player can redirect combat damage to the bombardier
@@eiszeiten4037 Shoal does not let you do that.
"The next X damage that a source of your choice would deal to *you and/or creatures you* control this turn is dealt to any target instead."
@@MTG3CardBlind Why can't shoal redirect the combat damage from the unblocked attack back at the attacking creature? Also thanks for replying!
The one time I skip over a puzzle video for a month and I've got a deck in it. (Dread deck)
Glad to see my deck in a video, even if it is one of my worst meta calls.
In the third puzzle, if P2 the Shining Shoals player waits until they're at 2 life to play Shoals, they lose the game.
ex. Bombadier attacke, P2 casts Shoals to redirect damage, P1 sacks Forge in response targeting P2 face (not the goblin) for 2 before Shoals resolves.
P2 can't play Shoals before the attack is commited either, as P1 could just delay attacking for the round as they have enough health buffer to lose a round of damage.
P2 would have to make the Shoals play on the round they're at 4 life to force a Draw like is described in the video.
Yes, you are correct. I stumbled right at the finish line of delivering the correct answer to that puzzle, but fortunately I think that the actual correct line was close enough to what I presented the people have been able to put it together themselves.
This sort of thing would be great for testing a rules engine lol
Wow, I am not very good at these. I enjoy the challenge, though, it almost feels like my years of magic experience get in the way here, since you need to think outside the box!
I wish you would explain how the order of the exile and opponent drawing a card would be determined by the rules text in the first puzzle. And if they happen at the same time, why does the jace deck still win?
An effect will resolve in order from top to bottom, so in this case, Baleful Mastery has the draw card portion of its effect take place while Jace is still on the battlefield to replace it with "win the game". If the effect were to exile Jace before the card was drawn, then Jace would not be around to see the card draw and it would not be replaced. So the order that those two elements are written on the card does impact the outcome of that match.
@@MTG3CardBlind
That's what I was wondering. I wanted to know why the exile didn't happen first. Thank you!
Player 2 wouldn't even have to activate the +1 ability. Player 1 only has 4 mana on his turn so the same problem remains. If he taps his land to put a 5th counter on it and passes player 2 will draw for turn and win.
I think I'm missing something but why is the skrelv player able to play anything? Don't they have to tap remote farm once per turn for 2 mana, and that mana is lost between phases?
Either I am misunderstanding you or you have misread one of the cards. The Skrelv's Hive player is not obligated to use tap their Remote Farm by any effects. Chancellor of the Annex has a one time tax of 1 mana that must be paid on the first spell the Skrelv's player casts or that spell is countered. The Skrelv's player does not have any extra mana to pay for that one time tax, so the first spell they cast will always be countered. If they play Skrelv's first, it gets countered and they can nolonger win the game. For that reason, they *want* to cast Soul Partition first, but as described in the video, Soul Partition will have no valid targets if the Chancellor player opts out of creating a goblin token. This means that the game will end in a tie/stalemate.
I didn’t see the line in the third one
Why does Shining Shoal not redirect both the attack damage and the sacrifice ability of Broadside Bombardiers? SS doesn't specify that it only redirects a single instance of damage just the next X damage so it should redirect 7 total. All the damage is also from the chosen source of BB 2 from attack and 2 from ability. I tried to look up any rulings for this and found 614.9 which is a description of redirection and 615.7 which is about damage prevention but describes the same kind of ability that SS has. 615.7 says "Such effects count only the amount of damage; the number of events or sources dealing it doesn’t matter." and without any specific rules for damage redirection specifying otherwise I don't understand why it would work any differently than damage prevention.
You are correct, Shining Shoal works the way you describe, there is just never a point where what you are describing is relevant to this puzzle. Remember that the Broadside Bombardier player is fishing for a tie.
If Shining Shoal is cast before attacks are declared, Broadside will choose not to attack to wait out the effect.
If Shining Shoal is cast after attacks are declared (before combat damage is dealt), Broadside can boast in response to Shining Shoal to sac Mana Crypt (or Great Furnace if they have already sac'd Mana Crypt) to kill the Goblin before Shining Shoal resolves.
The only way for Shining Shoal to prevent both the damage from Broadside Bombardier's ability and attack would be if the Bombardier player cooperated in producing that outcome.
@@MTG3CardBlind I see what I was missing now. The boast ability is used in response so it goes on the stack before Shining Shoal and happens before the damage redirection has a chance to activate. Thanks for taking the time to explain.
I'm clearly missing something obvious, but why can the Skrelv player not just collect three storage counters, cast the hive, and pay the tax?
Remote Farm is not a Storage Land, but a Depletion land
@@Mekmassimochannel Ohhh right, reading the card explains the card. Thanks!
An AI should be trained how to calculate the results of these matches