One of my favorites is chives. I edge garden beds with it. They work in full sun and partial shade, pollinators love the blooms, and their scent offers some pest control. Garlic chives, in particular, are a very effective barrier. However, they are prolific seeders. I give it a good chop while the seed heads are still green.
I have planted chives at garden edges in the past but found they weren't too strong at keeping grass from running through them. Have you found this to be the case? Perhaps if they are in combination with other rhizome barriers like comfrey they could work nicely... Any photos? :)
I have used chives as well with some good success, full sun, with some sorrel in there as well. The bed itself is occuped by herbaceous perennials, so that probably helps as well, but I can definitely see the grass coming into the bed still in the areas that have yet to have an intentional rhizome barrier planted. @Justin Edmonds my plantings are about 6" wide
Chives in my garden get taken over by grass. Maybe I just have too few of them and need to plant thicker swathes of them. I love the flowers in salads and sprinkled over dips - such a strong onion flavour for something so tiny.
I wonder about daylilies. They can form quite dense stands, but stay where they are put and they have edible flowers. Stella d'oro in particular produces huge quantities of very tasty flowers all season long and they're beautiful in salads.
@@edibleacres I can't speak to all varieties (they are quite diverse), but Stella d'oro has a definite clump habit. The clumps get bigger over time, but they don't run.
Daylilies in salads?!! Seriously? This is like the greatest channel on the tube: I get great info/ideas here. But I already gave Douglas my viewer's choice comment of the day award, but this really deserves one to. Maybe Sean can give you the official one. ;)
@@tagladyify I can only personally attest to Stella D'oro. There are multiple species of daylily and there is debate about whether all are edible. Hemerocallis fulva is the most recommended for eating. It is also worth noting that some lilies, which superficially resemble daylilies and may be referred to as daylilies in some places are poisonous. I would recommend doing your research and proceeding with caution. There is a good d discussion at delishably.com/vegetable-dishes/Should-You-Eat-Your-Daylilies.
Lots of great info. I've got a lot of rhubarb. I'll put them at edge of my growing beds once I move them from their nursery beds. Working on getting comfrey.
I can remember when I learned how beneficial wasps were. I felt horrible about the damage I had done prior. Now I teach my boys not to kill anything, except rattlesnakes. We have fully committed to the permaculture principle of adding life in response to a less attractive inhabitant. And more runner snakes and more bull snakes mean almost no rattlesnakes. Yay!!!
I have noticed on my place some of the same plants you mentioned that seem to keep my quack grass (creeping rhizomes) in check are rhubarb, comfrey, and lovage. I am going to look into the others. I also finally found some research done on quack grass and none chem control of it, which I will be experimenting with this year. I did not find I could keep quack in check with chives it grows right through mine. My conclusion on that is the chives do not provide enough shade that the quack grass does not like unlike some of the other plants you mention.
Great ideas, Shawn! I was really only familiar with Comfrey and Rhubarb for this purpose, but I actually got Good King Henry and Sea Kale from y’all this fall, so this helps me know another good place to deploy them.
Great, useful information. Love your set up- I keep trying to visualize it in its entirety. Zone 3B is jealous ☺️ we as well are using rhubarb with our raspberry patch- can you grow enough of either?! We also use a variety of yarrows to boarder our hugel mounds.
Another 4b er bemoaning the delaying weather (snow yesterday!) this year. Your garden looks great! Will anything mentioned help with bindweed? About the only tip I have to offer in return is plant chocolate mint along the grass's edge. It won't stop either from spreading but when you hit it with the mower you'll enjoy the mowing - at least for a moment.
Hahaa!! Winner: comment of the day! What a clever idea! I had not thought of using mint as a sacrificial plant. Funny how we, as people, get into a box when "thinking". One's home should be pleasant to all senses. I am going to begin to think about what and where I can plant little sensory bombs around the yard now. Thankyou! It will make mowing a whole new, and more pleasant experience. You're a genius.
I haven't explicitly tried them as a rhizome barrier yet, but we inherited a lot of them with our house and I can say there isn't too much grass in this beds, despite years of neglect. They are also quite tasty. I ate them for lunch today on pasta with fiddleheads and dandelion greens.
This was great info. Thanks so much. I've been looking for info on rhizome barriers and found people saying comfrey and rhubarb work (as you say). I don't want to mow any of my front lawn so I'm looking for a barrier between my yard and next door (the other sides are house, driveway and sidewalk). I'm going to try a line of iris, comfrey, iris, rhubarb, iris, comfrey, iris in full sun - because it's at the front, it should look pretty. There is a plant of my neighbour's that wanders into my back yard in quite a shady spot so I'm going to try sweet cicely. I'm really glad to find out about other possibilities - especially lovage for wet areas. This time of year, one spot at the back is like a swamp.
Sounds like a great design you are describing. I forgot to mention Iris, it seems like a great boundary plant! Also hosta for the wet/shady position might not be a bad idea.
I live in south central Montana, zone 4. When I bought this property there was a small patch of Amaranth, probably came in with some hay for horses. I doubt anyone planted it on purpose. I haven't been able to find any photos that look like it online so I assume it is something that adapted over the years. Maybe similar to Elephant but brown seeds. Very bushy at the base portion and very long leaves. I just measured a leaf at 18 inches long and only 3 inches wide. The flowers are starting to come out on that plant at about 24 inches height. It can also get much bigger and very tall, 6 feet to top of seed stalk, depending on the age of the plant and water availability. It certainly does well here on my property. It's only May 22 and it's starting to bloom. I've dug up roots over 3 inches in diameter from established plants. I've tried harvesting the grain but it doesn't come loose from the hull very well so I just let the chickens eat it. They love to hang out under it in summer. I let it grow along the chicken wire fences. It's the only thing that can easily outdo bind weed that wants to grow up the fence. I much prefer working with the Amaranth over bind weed so the chickens and I encourage it to grow. When it comes up in a garden bed it's not that hard to dig out. I have heard the root is edible but I haven't found how to cook it other than boiling it but no recipes. Does anyone have any experience with cooking the root? Also, my other favorite prolific volunteer that can outgrow other plants here is Mallow. I am letting it spread into pathways and pretty much anywhere it wants to go except the annual beds. I love eating the flower nubs in the summer and it looks really nice even in dry seasons. Also not that hard to keep under control compared to others. Very hot and dry here in summer so it's nice to have something that can stay green and keep the soil cooled off without needing babysitting.
I have a warmer, drier climate, with more sun exposure, so have found clumps of Aloe Vera to be a good barrier instead. Given they don't have the large, shading leaves of the plants you mention, climbing weeds, attempt to climb into the Aloe Vera and root. I view this as a symbiotic relationship, as the spindly climbing weeds, help to shade the ground of the Aloe. But if I want to reef them out, it's virtually no effort at all. As they're not rooted in by much. You certainly won't get grass or other deep rooted weeds, creeping in though.
Hello Sean, fantastic video!...not sure if you drop below 15C but if not Vetiver grass is absolutely wonderful in many, many ways not the least of which erosion solutions, water retention and directive, fodder, nutrient rich mulch, symbiotic relationship with fruit trees, mineral accumulator, rhizome barrier and nutrient/soil retention. Temperature range -15C/+55C...ph 3.5 to 12!!..Elizabeth
That's interesting. I'm in zone 3b. While we are definitely not very far along in the season (trees just leafing out and average last frost date a week away still) we've eaten from the garden (and the woods) every day this week.
yeah i made a comfrey mistake aswell lol but sorrel! sorrel on the western side of my garden will hopefully block out the grass i did some edging and built a waddle fence along the one side to give it a nice look and to mark where i dont want my children trampling my patch of plants . sorrel will be a awesome tasty green to act as a barrier!
Very practical and useful, thanks! The comfrey I bought from you folks is blooming like crazy, I planted it last fall and didn't expect it to be so robust so soon. Your rhubarb shade gradient demonstration is interesting! I'm wondering if anyone out there grows rhubarb in a much hotter climate? I'm trying to grow it for the first time in zone 8a, people here say that it sometimes dies back in the summer, so I'm trying it in several different spots, full sun and partial shade.
The hotter the site, the more important it gets shades from mid-day onward.... To the east of a wall of trees seems like a ncie design. So glad the comfrey is growing well for you!
Thank you for this, I had no idea there was such a thing as a plant acting as a Rhizome barrier. I guess living in California I don't have as much call for that! Now if only there were rhizome barriers for bamboo! After this wet winter, my neighbor's bamboo has come in about 4 feet inside the fence!
Any thoughts on what might work for tall aggressive plants such as Jerusalem artichokes and aggressive brambles? I don't think they'd be as readily stopped by other plants as they can grow above. To date I am aware of two main approaches: mechanical rhizome barrier and surrounding them with maintained lawn and mowing down strays.
Having them be in an island onto themselves is a reasonable plan. I also plant trees into sunchoke patches and then year 1-3 keep the sunchokes cut back and used as mulch until the trees get above them. Works nicely. Moves up through succession like nature wants, too!
I frequently use daylilies as my rhizome barrier, but I am planning to try hostas soon as well. I'd like to try loveage, but I have trouble sourcing a live plant n my area (I am terrible at starting from seed).
At some point, my parents planted comfrey in their yard. Then it escaped and completely took over two large sections along the driveway. I'm surprised it didn't knock down trees. Something to watch for.
I wonder if they dug/tilled at their site? Comfrey really doesn't spread on it's own if left alone (if it's the Bocking russian type, which is the main type out there).
@@edibleacres Yes, but not where the comfrey installed itself. They had one maintained garden, and a few more peripheral areas they let go since they weren't worth the effort in their advancing years. On those edges it might have been planted to make a flowering border and ran down the slopes like crazy. The property was on the north side of a drumlin. Mix of sand, gravel, clay soil. Common Comfrey is noted as invasive. I remember talking about it having been the wrong variety to chose. It's worth investigating.
Thank you thank you thank you! I despise digging edges, i despise digging and pulling the roots of the ever-present scutch grass. Some of the scutch grass roots I have pulled from our vegetable garden and new orchard have been a yard long. [sigh] Then there's the Creeping Charlie...[facepalm]. Our new orchard of pear and apple was initially covered with 12 inches of wood chips. It helped to kill the lawn underneath, but the west edge is problematic. We planted a row of rosa rugosa on the west of the orchard, as a living fence and weed barrier. This third year they are getting big enough to shade out grass beneath them, so along with grass clippings, they are holding their own without back-breaking work from me. There are still gaps in the rugosa line, though, and we've used grass clippings along edges and on top of the scutch grass. Doesn't help much. We have plenty of comfrey that needs to be moved, so maybe that's something, or the rhubarb. It's worth a try (to save my back and knees!). The east edge of the orchard is overrun with Creeping Charlie. Besides pulling/rolling up mats of it, I have no answer. I hope the community here may have a solution, because it's getting ahead of me (there's only so much CC I can use for medicinal tinctures!)
Creeping charlie tells a great story of soil fertility. Seems to really enjoy rich moist soils, so you are growing your soil well! Maybe it's time for some currants on that side, you can pile more and more soil/mulch around their stems and their canopy is incredibly dense, could be your succession step past the 'charlie!
I love your videos and appreciate all the useful information/ideas. But the math teacher in me has to ask, how can the rhubarb keep grass "more or less 100%" out of your garden? Can grass be more than 100% out of your garden? Thanks again, and keep the videos coming please.
My man over at SkillCult has been encouraging the use of narcissus as a short-lived ground cover beneath establishing fruit trees which may also be a rhizome barrier.
I'm trying some thinking they'll help against moles/voles. Figured worst case pretty with a pear tree. Would love to find out if they could help with bermuda!
would rhizome barriers be effective in keeping roots from oak trees from encroaching into swales/raised beds? does this strategy also work for raspberries?
How do you use sea kale? And I'm seeing sources say it only get 1-2' tall - does that reflect your experience? I'm looking for something that stays relatively shorter to avoid shading my calendula and chammomile
Wow! Were those flower stalks coming up from the rhubarb? I've always removed the flower buds as early in the season as possible. I have 4 clumps, two a bit larger, two a bit smaller. The two smaller ones both tried to flower this spring. If they don't produce decent sized leaf stalks this season, I may take them out, then split the two larger clumps so I'll still have four. Maybe you could do a short video on how you treat your rhubarb. BTW, apple-rhubarb pie, and apple-rhubarb butter are both delicious. I would recommend Big Root Geranium as a rhizome barrier for borders. Once established, which isn't hard, the plantings will get bigger every season, becoming quite dense. I plant this on the outside of my fenced veggie garden, preventing weeds and grasses from invading through the fence. If the geranium grows too far into the yard, it doesn't hurt to cut off a few inches when mowing the grass. My variety has deep pinkish-red flowers, and doesn't seem to be bothered by pests. The foliage is quite aromatic; deer, rabbits, groundhogs won't touch it. www.theimpatientgardener.com/geranium-macrorrhizum/ www.louistheplantgeek.com/4-a-gardening-journal/1352-geranium-macrorrhizum-album-060617
Do you have any suggestions for things to use in wetter areas? Our lawn (which we are trying to rid of grasses) abuts our neighbors at a low spot which collects a lot of standing water in the spring. We are working on water management, but I would like to be able to block the wiregrass while not blocking all of the water! Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated. We are in zone 7b.
Would this work for Bermuda or pasture grasses? They have taken over my garden and I plan on making a lot of food forest areas on our property. I am laying down black plastic around the fence of our garden this season and would like to use comfrey and rhubarb and build up around the outside of our fencing. The Bermuda really reaches and goes crazy if we don’t block it or mow it back.
Comfrey question - are comfrey leaves safe to use as a chop and drop mulch or compost additive ie. do the toxins sit in the soil/compost and get taken up by your food plants? This possibility worries me a little.
There are no toxins to worry about with comfrey. That is a fear created by some funky research. The levels of allantoin you'd need to digest to have any issues from Comfrey is somewhere around 10 pounds of leaves a day for a LONG time, as directly consumed, to have issues. It is an incredibly benign, beneficial and wonderful plant and the leaves are VERY worthwhile as a mulch and compost support element...
Very useful video! I am looking to turn substantial garden bed into a food forest, but I have invasive Couch or Kikuyu grass always invading through the brick lawn barrier. I might try Comfrey lawnside and rhubarb bedside. Is there a productive climbing rhizome barrier anyone can suggest, as I plan to fence off the FF on the bedside of the lawn barrier?
Sounds like some good planning there, I hope it works incredibly well for you! So long as you are patient year one and don't expect it to work perfectly at first things should evolve each year into a deeper and deeper functioning system.
Mainly it's for nursery stock that we can dig up in the fall/spring... Sasha cooks with a bunch and we've sold some stalks in the past. But more than anything I love seeing it in the landscape and letting it do its thing! :)
I've heard about chives and plan to use them but does anyone know if the allium family has a similar effect. I want to use perennial bunching onions .(Kyoto) so I can get a good crop as well as a barrier?
@@edibleacres the environment limits the grasses anyway due to pathways between allotments so I'm trialing a simple system. I'll know the result next year :). I'll probably back it up with sorrels etc but not this year.
@@edibleacres so I'm thinking maybe sorrels first then the onions. How wide a barrier of sorrel would you recommend? Have you used red veined sorrel? What sorrel do you use?
hmmm, I just planted a bunch of comfrey intended as a rhizome barrier for my annual beds. If they start to be intrusive I can just dig some up and re-plant somewhere else? I also edged that side of the garden with old lumber which might prevent the comfrey from getting in there...maybe. (The Creeping Charlie is the main intruder in these parts it seems)
The problem with comfrey is that a tiny fragment of root left behind will turn into a new plant. Same thing with horseradish, and several other tuberous or rhizomatic plants.
Assume that if you EVER dig in the annual beds you will be spreading comfrey into it over time. Perhaps the bed is annuals this year, with a plan to plant perennial or shrubs right next to the comfrey in the fall (currants do great with this) and that it is moving up in succession now that comfrey is in the picture! :)
If it's an annual bed I and the comfrey is newly planted I would take it out now. I made a similar mistake once but stopped it quickly. A couple of comfreys still tried to come up but I sheet mulched with about 3 sheets of newspaper and that was enough to kill it off. (Because it wasn't heavily established)
@@justinedmonds3645 because the comfre will try and spread underground into my annual beds? It is OK on the perimeter of a perennial bed though? (Edlderberries, blackberries, currants, Gojis, etc)
@@ironcloudz52 Roots spread out from a plant underground, and any digging near the plant (at the edge of the bed next to the comfrey) will break off pieces of root. Comfrey's root segments sprout into new plants, with their own spreading roots, bringing the edge closer towards the center of the bed.
I wouldn't try to move it. Just enjoy it, work with it extensively, and look at a longer term plan of committing more shrubs and trees to your landscape in those areas. It's the path of least resistance anyway!
I've thought about this before for near fruit trees but then I wondered how I would harvest the roots... That's the only problems. I can see, otherwise I suspect it would act like comfrey, and it would have brassica flowers for the insects
Horseradish is like comfrey; a tiny piece of root turns into a new plant. If you know you never will want to move it, it's an awesome plant. I chop and drop mine as mulch. I love fresh horseradish sauce, too!
I agree with other commenters... very much a useful design element BUT it would be as a rhizome barrier, but not as a harvestable crop. You wouldn't want to dig down to get the roots if you have trees or shrubs or other perennials you want for long term there...
Purple cone flower (echinacea purpurea) is working well on the outskirts of my garden (zone 8a)
Thats awesome to know!
One of my favorites is chives. I edge garden beds with it. They work in full sun and partial shade, pollinators love the blooms, and their scent offers some pest control. Garlic chives, in particular, are a very effective barrier. However, they are prolific seeders. I give it a good chop while the seed heads are still green.
How wide a barrier do you use for this effect. 6"... 1ft..?
I second Justin's question.
I have planted chives at garden edges in the past but found they weren't too strong at keeping grass from running through them. Have you found this to be the case? Perhaps if they are in combination with other rhizome barriers like comfrey they could work nicely... Any photos? :)
I have used chives as well with some good success, full sun, with some sorrel in there as well. The bed itself is occuped by herbaceous perennials, so that probably helps as well, but I can definitely see the grass coming into the bed still in the areas that have yet to have an intentional rhizome barrier planted.
@Justin Edmonds my plantings are about 6" wide
Chives in my garden get taken over by grass. Maybe I just have too few of them and need to plant thicker swathes of them. I love the flowers in salads and sprinkled over dips - such a strong onion flavour for something so tiny.
I wonder about daylilies. They can form quite dense stands, but stay where they are put and they have edible flowers. Stella d'oro in particular produces huge quantities of very tasty flowers all season long and they're beautiful in salads.
Daylilies seem like a nice potential design element. Don't they run though?
@@edibleacres I can't speak to all varieties (they are quite diverse), but Stella d'oro has a definite clump habit. The clumps get bigger over time, but they don't run.
Daylilies in salads?!! Seriously? This is like the greatest channel on the tube: I get great info/ideas here. But I already gave Douglas my viewer's choice comment of the day award, but this really deserves one to. Maybe Sean can give you the official one. ;)
Nice to know about another edible flower. Is it only Stella that are edible or is it standard for daylilies in general?
@@tagladyify I can only personally attest to Stella D'oro. There are multiple species of daylily and there is debate about whether all are edible. Hemerocallis fulva is the most recommended for eating. It is also worth noting that some lilies, which superficially resemble daylilies and may be referred to as daylilies in some places are poisonous. I would recommend doing your research and proceeding with caution. There is a good d discussion at delishably.com/vegetable-dishes/Should-You-Eat-Your-Daylilies.
Lots of great info. I've got a lot of rhubarb. I'll put them at edge of my growing beds once I move them from their nursery beds. Working on getting comfrey.
Love this. My wife and I are very neat and tidy people and this will help tremendously. Thanks for posting.
Hope it serves well.
Aside of the rhizome barrier being helpful to keep control of other plants another great benefit to them is to serve as a wind break.
I just planted Hostas along a shady bed. As they form really dense clumps, they should work great. And the shoots are edible, too.
This is awesome! I've been waiting for a video like this since one of your earlier videos introduced me to this idea - thanks Sean!
Just found your channel. Really enjoyed this video and looking forward to seeing others as I live in zone 5b also
Welcome to the community!
Ive never really thought about wasps being beneficial. Im going to try to attract them now
I can remember when I learned how beneficial wasps were. I felt horrible about the damage I had done prior. Now I teach my boys not to kill anything, except rattlesnakes. We have fully committed to the permaculture principle of adding life in response to a less attractive inhabitant. And more runner snakes and more bull snakes mean almost no rattlesnakes. Yay!!!
Excellent video. I was going to mention skillcults videos on this topic as well but see others already have.
I have noticed on my place some of the same plants you mentioned that seem to keep my quack grass (creeping rhizomes) in check are rhubarb, comfrey, and lovage. I am going to look into the others. I also finally found some research done on quack grass and none chem control of it, which I will be experimenting with this year. I did not find I could keep quack in check with chives it grows right through mine. My conclusion on that is the chives do not provide enough shade that the quack grass does not like unlike some of the other plants you mention.
Any update on your non chem control of quack grass?
Great ideas, Shawn! I was really only familiar with Comfrey and Rhubarb for this purpose, but I actually got Good King Henry and Sea Kale from y’all this fall, so this helps me know another good place to deploy them.
Great, useful information. Love your set up- I keep trying to visualize it in its entirety. Zone 3B is jealous ☺️ we as well are using rhubarb with our raspberry patch- can you grow enough of either?! We also use a variety of yarrows to boarder our hugel mounds.
Thank you for this vid. I have a young food forest and the neighbours grass is my biggest pain. Need to use this type of system:))
Really worth developing for sure.
Another 4b er bemoaning the delaying weather (snow yesterday!) this year. Your garden looks great! Will anything mentioned help with bindweed? About the only tip I have to offer in return is plant chocolate mint along the grass's edge. It won't stop either from spreading but when you hit it with the mower you'll enjoy the mowing - at least for a moment.
Hahaa!! Winner: comment of the day! What a clever idea! I had not thought of using mint as a sacrificial plant. Funny how we, as people, get into a box when "thinking". One's home should be pleasant to all senses. I am going to begin to think about what and where I can plant little sensory bombs around the yard now. Thankyou! It will make mowing a whole new, and more pleasant experience. You're a genius.
If you find a good answer for bind weed please pass it along. I have one corner where it has probably lived well over a hundred years.
Excellent information. I need to diversify my Rhizome barriers.
All in good time.
I’m trying out hostas this year. Stefan Sobkowiak raves about them in both sun and shade. We’ll see how it works here in Zone 7B. 🤞🏻
I haven't explicitly tried them as a rhizome barrier yet, but we inherited a lot of them with our house and I can say there isn't too much grass in this beds, despite years of neglect. They are also quite tasty. I ate them for lunch today on pasta with fiddleheads and dandelion greens.
Please share notes. I think Hosta is a great plant, I haven't worked with it enough to know how well it would work...
They are tasty to the deer-- they've eaten 90% of my gorgeous hostas this year, so beware the placement. Hostas will draw deer to our plot.
This was great info. Thanks so much. I've been looking for info on rhizome barriers and found people saying comfrey and rhubarb work (as you say). I don't want to mow any of my front lawn so I'm looking for a barrier between my yard and next door (the other sides are house, driveway and sidewalk). I'm going to try a line of iris, comfrey, iris, rhubarb, iris, comfrey, iris in full sun - because it's at the front, it should look pretty. There is a plant of my neighbour's that wanders into my back yard in quite a shady spot so I'm going to try sweet cicely. I'm really glad to find out about other possibilities - especially lovage for wet areas. This time of year, one spot at the back is like a swamp.
Sounds like a great design you are describing. I forgot to mention Iris, it seems like a great boundary plant! Also hosta for the wet/shady position might not be a bad idea.
I live in south central Montana, zone 4. When I bought this property there was a small patch of Amaranth, probably came in with some hay for horses. I doubt anyone planted it on purpose. I haven't been able to find any photos that look like it online so I assume it is something that adapted over the years. Maybe similar to Elephant but brown seeds. Very bushy at the base portion and very long leaves. I just measured a leaf at 18 inches long and only 3 inches wide. The flowers are starting to come out on that plant at about 24 inches height. It can also get much bigger and very tall, 6 feet to top of seed stalk, depending on the age of the plant and water availability. It certainly does well here on my property. It's only May 22 and it's starting to bloom. I've dug up roots over 3 inches in diameter from established plants. I've tried harvesting the grain but it doesn't come loose from the hull very well so I just let the chickens eat it. They love to hang out under it in summer. I let it grow along the chicken wire fences. It's the only thing that can easily outdo bind weed that wants to grow up the fence. I much prefer working with the Amaranth over bind weed so the chickens and I encourage it to grow. When it comes up in a garden bed it's not that hard to dig out. I have heard the root is edible but I haven't found how to cook it other than boiling it but no recipes. Does anyone have any experience with cooking the root? Also, my other favorite prolific volunteer that can outgrow other plants here is Mallow. I am letting it spread into pathways and pretty much anywhere it wants to go except the annual beds. I love eating the flower nubs in the summer and it looks really nice even in dry seasons. Also not that hard to keep under control compared to others. Very hot and dry here in summer so it's nice to have something that can stay green and keep the soil cooled off without needing babysitting.
Wow, great tips!!! Thank you so much!
I have a warmer, drier climate, with more sun exposure, so have found clumps of Aloe Vera to be a good barrier instead. Given they don't have the large, shading leaves of the plants you mention, climbing weeds, attempt to climb into the Aloe Vera and root. I view this as a symbiotic relationship, as the spindly climbing weeds, help to shade the ground of the Aloe. But if I want to reef them out, it's virtually no effort at all. As they're not rooted in by much. You certainly won't get grass or other deep rooted weeds, creeping in though.
Ha! Never thought of using kale in this fashion. Excellent idea!!
Crambe Maritima, 'Sea Kale' is who I'm talking about, not the standard garden kale, just FYI...
@@edibleacres I did pick up on that. But sea kale is an interesting looking plant. I definitely see how it would be a nice border.
Hello Sean, fantastic video!...not sure if you drop below 15C but if not Vetiver grass is absolutely wonderful in many, many ways not the least of which erosion solutions, water retention and directive, fodder, nutrient rich mulch, symbiotic relationship with fruit trees, mineral accumulator, rhizome barrier and nutrient/soil retention. Temperature range -15C/+55C...ph 3.5 to 12!!..Elizabeth
We go to -15F, so -26C... Vetiver is a great plant, but certainly not one we can try!
Wow, your growing season is so much further than ours. We still can't get any plants in the ground in 4b :(
Snow and rain here today haha
Yes, another 4b resident here and it's depressing!!!
That's interesting. I'm in zone 3b. While we are definitely not very far along in the season (trees just leafing out and average last frost date a week away still) we've eaten from the garden (and the woods) every day this week.
I'm sure it'll happen soon enough for you!
Zone 4 here. Only in the 40's this week. Projects held at bay for a couple more weeks.
Thank you so much!
yeah i made a comfrey mistake aswell lol but sorrel! sorrel on the western side of my garden will hopefully block out the grass i did some edging and built a waddle fence along the one side to give it a nice look and to mark where i dont want my children trampling my patch of plants . sorrel will be a awesome tasty green to act as a barrier!
Really interesting. Thanks
Very practical and useful, thanks! The comfrey I bought from you folks is blooming like crazy, I planted it last fall and didn't expect it to be so robust so soon. Your rhubarb shade gradient demonstration is interesting! I'm wondering if anyone out there grows rhubarb in a much hotter climate? I'm trying to grow it for the first time in zone 8a, people here say that it sometimes dies back in the summer, so I'm trying it in several different spots, full sun and partial shade.
The hotter the site, the more important it gets shades from mid-day onward.... To the east of a wall of trees seems like a ncie design. So glad the comfrey is growing well for you!
Thank you for this, I had no idea there was such a thing as a plant acting as a Rhizome barrier. I guess living in California I don't have as much call for that! Now if only there were rhizome barriers for bamboo! After this wet winter, my neighbor's bamboo has come in about 4 feet inside the fence!
I don't think there is a barrier for bamboo, period!
Any thoughts on what might work for tall aggressive plants such as Jerusalem artichokes and aggressive brambles? I don't think they'd be as readily stopped by other plants as they can grow above.
To date I am aware of two main approaches: mechanical rhizome barrier and surrounding them with maintained lawn and mowing down strays.
Having them be in an island onto themselves is a reasonable plan. I also plant trees into sunchoke patches and then year 1-3 keep the sunchokes cut back and used as mulch until the trees get above them. Works nicely. Moves up through succession like nature wants, too!
@@edibleacres Are sunchokes forever, like comfrey?
I frequently use daylilies as my rhizome barrier, but I am planning to try hostas soon as well. I'd like to try loveage, but I have trouble sourcing a live plant n my area (I am terrible at starting from seed).
At some point, my parents planted comfrey in their yard. Then it escaped and completely took over two large sections along the driveway. I'm surprised it didn't knock down trees. Something to watch for.
I wonder if they dug/tilled at their site? Comfrey really doesn't spread on it's own if left alone (if it's the Bocking russian type, which is the main type out there).
@@edibleacres Yes, but not where the comfrey installed itself. They had one maintained garden, and a few more peripheral areas they let go since they weren't worth the effort in their advancing years. On those edges it might have been planted to make a flowering border and ran down the slopes like crazy. The property was on the north side of a drumlin. Mix of sand, gravel, clay soil.
Common Comfrey is noted as invasive. I remember talking about it having been the wrong variety to chose. It's worth investigating.
I wish i could buy some plants. Sold out. Good for you, bad for me. Either way i like these videos. I learn a lot. Thanks
Thank you thank you thank you! I despise digging edges, i despise digging and pulling the roots of the ever-present scutch grass. Some of the scutch grass roots I have pulled from our vegetable garden and new orchard have been a yard long. [sigh]
Then there's the Creeping Charlie...[facepalm].
Our new orchard of pear and apple was initially covered with 12 inches of wood chips. It helped to kill the lawn underneath, but the west edge is problematic. We planted a row of rosa rugosa on the west of the orchard, as a living fence and weed barrier. This third year they are getting big enough to shade out grass beneath them, so along with grass clippings, they are holding their own without back-breaking work from me. There are still gaps in the rugosa line, though, and we've used grass clippings along edges and on top of the scutch grass. Doesn't help much. We have plenty of comfrey that needs to be moved, so maybe that's something, or the rhubarb. It's worth a try (to save my back and knees!).
The east edge of the orchard is overrun with Creeping Charlie. Besides pulling/rolling up mats of it, I have no answer. I hope the community here may have a solution, because it's getting ahead of me (there's only so much CC I can use for medicinal tinctures!)
Creeping charlie tells a great story of soil fertility. Seems to really enjoy rich moist soils, so you are growing your soil well! Maybe it's time for some currants on that side, you can pile more and more soil/mulch around their stems and their canopy is incredibly dense, could be your succession step past the 'charlie!
just found your channel, like it!
Welcome :)
I love your videos and appreciate all the useful information/ideas. But the math teacher in me has to ask, how can the rhubarb keep grass "more or less 100%" out of your garden? Can grass be more than 100% out of your garden? Thanks again, and keep the videos coming please.
Rhubarb keeps grass 104% out of the garden. That is according to my most recent calculations. :)
Making me laugh 3 years later.
My man over at SkillCult has been encouraging the use of narcissus as a short-lived ground cover beneath establishing fruit trees which may also be a rhizome barrier.
Seems like a nice design element for the early spring!
@@edibleacres His talk about it is worth 5 minutes of your time: th-cam.com/video/WXrYZs75KJw/w-d-xo.html
I'm trying some thinking they'll help against moles/voles. Figured worst case pretty with a pear tree. Would love to find out if they could help with bermuda!
would rhizome barriers be effective in keeping roots from oak trees from encroaching into swales/raised beds? does this strategy also work for raspberries?
I can't imagine a rhizome barrier interrupting the roots of established trees. Raspberries, maybe, at least worth trying!
How do you use sea kale? And I'm seeing sources say it only get 1-2' tall - does that reflect your experience? I'm looking for something that stays relatively shorter to avoid shading my calendula and chammomile
I think 1-2' seems about right as a general size. A bit taller when specifically in flower.
Wow! Were those flower stalks coming up from the rhubarb? I've always removed the flower buds as early in the season as possible. I have 4 clumps, two a bit larger, two a bit smaller. The two smaller ones both tried to flower this spring. If they don't produce decent sized leaf stalks this season, I may take them out, then split the two larger clumps so I'll still have four. Maybe you could do a short video on how you treat your rhubarb. BTW, apple-rhubarb pie, and apple-rhubarb butter are both delicious.
I would recommend Big Root Geranium as a rhizome barrier for borders. Once established, which isn't hard, the plantings will get bigger every season, becoming quite dense. I plant this on the outside of my fenced veggie garden, preventing weeds and grasses from invading through the fence. If the geranium grows too far into the yard, it doesn't hurt to cut off a few inches when mowing the grass. My variety has deep pinkish-red flowers, and doesn't seem to be bothered by pests. The foliage is quite aromatic; deer, rabbits, groundhogs won't touch it.
www.theimpatientgardener.com/geranium-macrorrhizum/
www.louistheplantgeek.com/4-a-gardening-journal/1352-geranium-macrorrhizum-album-060617
great reminder on big root geranium. We're trialling it more and more now in various contexts and it's pretty amazing!
Thx for the good info. Btw, are your rhubarb already flowering? Cheers
They are. I know I should cut the stalks but we have enough and I love the flowers!
I was just surprised and I agree, the flowers look good. Cheers
Do you have any suggestions for things to use in wetter areas? Our lawn (which we are trying to rid of grasses) abuts our neighbors at a low spot which collects a lot of standing water in the spring. We are working on water management, but I would like to be able to block the wiregrass while not blocking all of the water! Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated. We are in zone 7b.
Would this work for Bermuda or pasture grasses? They have taken over my garden and I plan on making a lot of food forest areas on our property. I am laying down black plastic around the fence of our garden this season and would like to use comfrey and rhubarb and build up around the outside of our fencing. The Bermuda really reaches and goes crazy if we don’t block it or mow it back.
I don't have direct experience, but it would be helpful at the least. May not work year 1, so you'd have to keep up with things for a while...
Comfrey question - are comfrey leaves safe to use as a chop and drop mulch or compost additive ie. do the toxins sit in the soil/compost and get taken up by your food plants? This possibility worries me a little.
There are no toxins to worry about with comfrey. That is a fear created by some funky research. The levels of allantoin you'd need to digest to have any issues from Comfrey is somewhere around 10 pounds of leaves a day for a LONG time, as directly consumed, to have issues. It is an incredibly benign, beneficial and wonderful plant and the leaves are VERY worthwhile as a mulch and compost support element...
@@edibleacres Thank you for replying and making the case for Comfrey.👍
Very useful video! I am looking to turn substantial garden bed into a food forest, but I have invasive Couch or Kikuyu grass always invading through the brick lawn barrier. I might try Comfrey lawnside and rhubarb bedside. Is there a productive climbing rhizome barrier anyone can suggest, as I plan to fence off the FF on the bedside of the lawn barrier?
Sounds like some good planning there, I hope it works incredibly well for you! So long as you are patient year one and don't expect it to work perfectly at first things should evolve each year into a deeper and deeper functioning system.
@@edibleacres Thank you for the encouragement! And the wisdom to be patient 😃
Wow, what do you and Sasha do with all that 'barb?!
They probably run a 'barbers' salon. Sorry....lol
Mainly it's for nursery stock that we can dig up in the fall/spring... Sasha cooks with a bunch and we've sold some stalks in the past. But more than anything I love seeing it in the landscape and letting it do its thing! :)
Dale Redpath ahahah, awesome!
EdibleAcres right, so, dug up, potted and sold? How does Sasha use it?
I've heard about chives and plan to use them but does anyone know if the allium family has a similar effect. I want to use perennial bunching onions .(Kyoto) so I can get a good crop as well as a barrier?
Please let us know how it works for you. I've found alliums are excellent support plants but do not hold running grass back well enough for my needs.
@@edibleacres the environment limits the grasses anyway due to pathways between allotments so I'm trialing a simple system. I'll know the result next year :). I'll probably back it up with sorrels etc but not this year.
@@justinedmonds3645 I put walking onions all around a new bed but the grass is coming through.
@@edibleacres so I'm thinking maybe sorrels first then the onions. How wide a barrier of sorrel would you recommend? Have you used red veined sorrel? What sorrel do you use?
Do you think Rhubarb will block goutweed?
I think that is quite possible.
I've never thought of using plants as garden edge, interesting.
It really can work wonders.
hmmm, I just planted a bunch of comfrey intended as a rhizome barrier for my annual beds.
If they start to be intrusive I can just dig some up and re-plant somewhere else? I also edged that side of the garden with old lumber which might prevent the comfrey from getting in there...maybe.
(The Creeping Charlie is the main intruder in these parts it seems)
The problem with comfrey is that a tiny fragment of root left behind will turn into a new plant. Same thing with horseradish, and several other tuberous or rhizomatic plants.
Assume that if you EVER dig in the annual beds you will be spreading comfrey into it over time. Perhaps the bed is annuals this year, with a plan to plant perennial or shrubs right next to the comfrey in the fall (currants do great with this) and that it is moving up in succession now that comfrey is in the picture! :)
If it's an annual bed I and the comfrey is newly planted I would take it out now. I made a similar mistake once but stopped it quickly. A couple of comfreys still tried to come up but I sheet mulched with about 3 sheets of newspaper and that was enough to kill it off. (Because it wasn't heavily established)
@@justinedmonds3645 because the comfre will try and spread underground into my annual beds? It is OK on the perimeter of a perennial bed though? (Edlderberries, blackberries, currants, Gojis, etc)
@@ironcloudz52 Roots spread out from a plant underground, and any digging near the plant (at the edge of the bed next to the comfrey) will break off pieces of root. Comfrey's root segments sprout into new plants, with their own spreading roots, bringing the edge closer towards the center of the bed.
I’m nervous I planted too much comfrey last year.. not possible to dig it up and move it without causing havoc?
The problem with comfrey is that a teeny tiny fragment of root left behind will turn into a new plant. It's very difficult to eradicate once planted.
I wouldn't try to move it. Just enjoy it, work with it extensively, and look at a longer term plan of committing more shrubs and trees to your landscape in those areas. It's the path of least resistance anyway!
Ok thanks for the advice 🙏
This was a great video, but cliff hanger with the air prune beds /boxes ! Pray tell more ! :D :D :D
Pray show us more!*** :D
I'm planning to make videos on them pretty darn soon!
How about horseradish?
I've thought about this before for near fruit trees but then I wondered how I would harvest the roots...
That's the only problems. I can see, otherwise I suspect it would act like comfrey, and it would have brassica flowers for the insects
Horseradish is like comfrey; a tiny piece of root turns into a new plant. If you know you never will want to move it, it's an awesome plant. I chop and drop mine as mulch. I love fresh horseradish sauce, too!
I agree with other commenters... very much a useful design element BUT it would be as a rhizome barrier, but not as a harvestable crop. You wouldn't want to dig down to get the roots if you have trees or shrubs or other perennials you want for long term there...