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I think most people who criticize his definition of a "basic" life in Central London are missing the point. He's trying to clarify that while 8.3k a month and 50k bonus is comfortable, it's nowhere near enough to live like Jordan Belfort in Wolf of Wall Street, which is precisely what most people think happens on Wall Street. You're still going to be eating out only a couple nights a week. You're still going to be renting a 700sf apartment. You're still not buying sports cars, and if you do, you won't get the chance to drive it. Most bankers live simple lives. The outliers who misbehave get fired for gross misconduct or washed out. Only once in a couple decades do you get Leo DiCaprio to play out your life on the big screen.
Eric harrington completely agreed. It's like "you either want this or you don't" , unlike some other institutional millionaire traders" selling the dream (who make more from the classes than their trading which allows the dream)
Have you tried to buy land! Renting enough land to make a good living is nearly impossible and no-one will sell you enough land to pay a good living from farming. Most farmers are tenant farmers and the very few ultra rich land owners (like Lord Halifax or The Crown Estates for example) make most of the money from land use with zero risk - they get their rent money even if the produce prices are low.
I have realised that UK Real Estate is hard to get into due being on a small island. In the US I can get around 10 Acres and a 4 Bed farmhouse for around $350,000 (Inbetween Philly & NYC)
Exactly. You're a freelancer? You're still the client's bitch. You spend one third of your time acquiring clients, one third dealing with clients, and one third actually doing the work you're paid for.
decentradical And this is why you will never succeed. You see dealing with clients as a hassle. If you run a business, you are offering a service. The "freedom" comes from having the flexibility to decide HOW you want to offer that service and what YOU think is best for the client as opposed to listening to someone dumber than you but is your boss because he has "seniority." You should be striving to put satisfied smiles on customers' faces. And that in turn should give you satisfaction that you made someone's day better. And in return for that satisfaction, the customer rewards you with currency. Now do you get morons? Absolutely. But by and large, people just want to buy a product or a service to satisfy a need and walk away without feeling cheated.
I watched this in 2020 in the middle of my Finance degree and completely changed my perception on the industry. I now work in Fintech and make ~$80k in my entry level, never work past 6 and have great growth prospects. I hope more people see this and realise there's other paths to work in finance that can be just as lucrative without the modern slavery part
How stressful is it? I am nearing the end of my PhD in physics and consider investment banks/hedge funds more and more each day. They seem to suck up a handful of us MS/PhD's from my university each year.
It depends on What you mean by stress. For me I consider it a responsibility and it keeps me on my toes mainly because I’m dealing with peoples lifesavings. To others that could be stress, to me that’s responsibility because it pushes me to know more and be better at what I do. I also have a degree in physics, didn’t go past BSc. Now I’ve learnt python and I use that in my day activities. The investment sector is huge and you have to know what part of it works for you.
"If you are going to give up the best days of your life i.e. the 20s, waking up in a dark and coming back in a dark. Working 14 hours per day staring at the algorithm on the computer desk, you should know how much you are getting compensated for that." - Anton Kreil
@@jackmiddleton2080 I admire people who spend their 20's doing whatever they like. That's why I don't understand why people want to leave their parents' houses at 18 so much and live, voluntarily in poverty.
Companies have quotas on Managing Directors, similar to how the military has quotas on Generals. No one moves up the ladder until one already on the ladder leaves.
FlightEvolution you will be working 70 hours a week, on a little bit more expensive apartment, eating out every now and then. That’s a basic life. He is trying to destroy the perception that people think they will all become like The Wolf in Wallstreet people. Which is not possible.
@@flightevolution8132 You very obviously were not listening if you managed to not hear the ten times he said "You'd live a basic life" in the video. That was his ENTIRE message. He suggested in the video that at the VP level, you'd be able to save about 1000 pounds a month. That's it. If that's your margin, you are most certainly not living a life in luxury.
I think the point people missed was the perception of traders in the media living this luxury life when in actual fact..."You'd live a basic life" in comparison. Especially if you're living in the city where rates are higher.
He crushed it. I'm glad I didn't go to IB even though I was offered to go right after my engineering degree completion. I became a structural engineer instead and I thought I was getting peanuts compared to IB guys. BUT, I work 37.5hrs a week. I choose to work on contracts as they pay better. 45/hr typically. Work from anywhere you want, show up occasionally at the office. Get paid about 8k/month gross on contract and do little side jobs, add 1.5-2k typically. So say 9.5k a month. The thing is, I run ltd so I'm able to throw in many expenses into accounting. Smart accountant is important. I end up paying about 5k in taxes at the end of the year. So in theory, I make more than IB, I work less than IB, and I have the choice of working anywhere closer to London but definitely not close to central London because that would kill all of it. I managed to find a gf while doing that (now wife) and started a family. I enjoy spending time with my daughter. I still think IBs make more than he says, otherwise who would sacrifice to work that many hours?
It's not necessarily IB that makes good money but rather what you do AFTER IB. Most hedge funds and private equity shops pay upwards of a million if you make it into a middle position (more experienced than entry but not quite management). That usually takes about 10 years or so to attain so you'll be in your mid 30s or early 40s with a 7 figure bank account. Now is it worth the grueling lifestyle? Depends on who you are, I guess. You won't be getting your 20s back. But you get paid for sacrificing your 20s.
People and the media have confused investment banking with private equity. IB is incredibly unsexy, filled with long hours and basic takes such as powerpoint creation. PE is slow but the cash is far and above better when you hit it big.
This guy just helped me decide my path with this video. I'll start my undergrad this september and in the first year at my university, you don't really have a major. I thought about getting into either consulting, banking or politics via international relations. banking is definitely off the table and more than forgotten on my side. I've oftentimes heard how shit of a business banking and especially IB is, but I refused to believe it. Now I finally understood why I should not go into banking.
@@laupeter4594 but for the amount of time you have to put in to it, is it worth it? You literally give up your life for the bank and don't for one second think you're going to be treated well at junior level. I have known people work in investment banks and it's not a glamorous job. They drive average cars, they life an average life. It's no longer now movies like The Wolf of Wall Street portray it to be. For me, it's simply not worth it. You're better of trading from home if you think you're that good at it.
And then you get there, at 40, you look back on your life sat behind a desk for 70/80/90 hours a week, with some potentially hansome zero's in your bank account and realise that time is the most precious commodity you have and you have wasted it trying to gain something material, sacrificing yourself to lubricate the inner workings of the capitalist machine. Come your day of judgement, how important is your brand new BMW x5 going to be? your wee mansion in suburbia? All you will think about is your loved ones and favourite memories, which btw, Bob your gardner, who worked 35 hours a week had plenty of time to make, because he knew the true value of life. Bobs not all that stupid after all.
Spartacus the fallacy you make is you think people who chase money are chasing material goods. There is so much more you can buy with money. It provides you with a level of security for your future livelihood, and that of your spouse, children, and grandchildren. Perhaps there’s a couple of charities you feel strongly about and you know the best way to help them out is to acquire as much money as possible so you can donate to them. Perhaps one day the world will end and Elon musk can take people to mars to escape but there’s only enough time to take 1% of the population. Then you will be wishing you had millions of dollars in the bank.
This guy is the best realest on the planet .. he’s seen stock market dips deeper than any man alive has seen; I can see it in his eyes. Mans been to war in the markets.
Tech requires investment. Tech companies still go public. M&A's still happen every month. So, Investment banks are always relevant, however, it's not as sweet as people think. Same with corporate law.
If you can afford it and living there doesn't affect your standard of living then there's no issue, if it does affect you financially then don't live there, simple.
Go to school... they said Get good grades... they said Go to university... they said Go work for a bank... they said Get a safe and secure job... they said Work hard... they said Save up money... they said That's risky... they said Buy a house... they said MY LIFE IS A LIE!
Are you still alive, man? Uni grades _can_ be good for you, because _once_ you land a job, it's a bit safer than being without one. If you're an entrepreneur, you'll work ten times harder, but often for less, and with _way_ less security. On the flip-side, entrepreneurs are better equipped to make the best out of a poor situation. So here's my take on grades. I have some. And they've given me access to certain jobs that's made my life simpler. On the other hand, I'm also self-thaught in programming and a few other things. That means whenever I apply for a job - at least here in Norway - I'm auto-rejected from jobs where they require a grade within programming etc - even though I'm good at programming! So should I waste time and money on trying to get into uni to get those programming courses? Well, there's a Catch 22 for ya!
Everything you said is True and what they told me and my friends at school. The real sad part is ... they are still saying the same thing to children today
I'm glad I'm realizing this as a high school senior. Probably going to save $320k by going to a school that gives me a full-ride than paying for the "best" school I get into for this lifestyle.
I can respect that he is speaking from experience. I much appreciate the honesty . In life , I’ve learned that approaching the world through the leases of realism pays in dividends.
@Guy Pie bro I'm 24k a year in Stockholm central and I do warehouse work at 18, 194k a year is unfathomably lavish lifestyle Taxes are higher and it's one of the most expensive cities on earth to live in and I'm doing it just a bit over UK minimum wage
I wish there was a lecture like this required by law in every university before students have paid their first tuition fee...wouldn't that be great! That would actually make so many people's lives better. I wish I were given "no bullshit" information at the beginning of my program. I would've never chosen to study that field, but I was cheated like everyone else by a system that is held accountable to absolutely nobody anywhere in the world. Universities in this age are businesses and not concerned with the wellbeing of students or the future of the society. I only see parents nowadays as the last line of defense against these predatory institutions; and the majority of parents are failing to advise their children properly. Filling a child with false hope is as destructive as giving him no hope!
If you apply for a FA position and don't even know the basics of tax, cashflow, living cost, understanding of contract, etc. then I am wondering what curriculum you get in your studies.
Charity is exactly what we bankers need when the government does not create jobs, ship existing ones outside, force out liquidity from the economy forcefully, increase taxes without creating new lines of income and opportunities for the economy. We bankers definetly are the filth trying to sell an economy without industries, push out money where there are virtually no opportunities. Oh yes I forgot we filthy bankers also push around financial products where your savings are saved from worthless tax policies created by righteous and altruistic politicians who have only your best interest.... You are right we deserve charity because we are scum right!
I went for a trading job once in the city! I was only 20 or so! I got there early and they were impressed I took the interview seriously in a suit! But I walked out and the queue was unbelievable. They almost needed the Police to shepherd them for a Saturday morning interview! Unreal!!!
Always look at it by pay per hours worked. You can get paid 120k a year but if you’re working 80 hour work weeks you’re doing just as well as 60k a year with normal work weeks. Actually worse since 120k puts you in a higher tax bracket and you’re sacrificing social life and leisure for every hour you work over 40/week.
It's like starting out as a YTS in the Conference South Football league on 100 quid a week, but where you really want to be is the Premiership on 100K a week. But like Anton says the probability of getting there gives you a P number of
Back in the day all my cousins who went to top unis made fun of my cousin who immigrated here at a young age and decided to drop out of secondary and work. The drop out worked hard and didn’t compare himself to no one. His boss died and gave him 100% ownership of his business which I cant disclose. He is 33 with over 3 million in the bank. The uni grads are working but they live an average life. Life has no plan. You literally cannot predict what your future will be.
The information is good but he shouldn't keep banging on about living a basic life. You can live in central london even at £25k a year, just basic. But at £40k-200k, it's definitely not basic. The only thing worth noting about being a trader is the hours you work. If you are working 70 hours a week earning £200k a year, it's the same as someone working the standard 40 hours a week earning £100k a year in terms of your hourly wage. Compared to most people, you are losing 30 hours a week for a good number of years of your life, if that's worth it to you.
Don’t forget there is lifestyle inflation at work here as well. When you’re surrounded by colleagues who are millionaires and any after-work drink ends up with either champagne or whisky, the £40-£80k gets down to 0 really fast. Not even factoring in the ‘conveniences’ from having a >80h workweek. Think of take-out food, Ubers, cabs, tips and coffee on the go. It is not really comparable to a retail worker earning £24-£30k.
Do not agree that it’s impossible to live in the city on 40k a year. No-one actually lives in the city of London. Majority of young professionals in all industries live in Zone 2 bear tube lines and train stations. I can make it into the city in 20 minutes from my Zone 2 flat. Depends entirely also on your lifestyle. If you are a member at the NED, you eat in the Dorchester, and go to Mayfair clubs every Friday and live the true trader London lifestyle then yeah even 100k a year wouldn’t cut it. But a lot of young professionals in the city or London in general don’t do that. Point is you absolutely can like on 40k a year in London.
So you choose to completely ignore the bit where he says we need to be in the office by 6 in the morning? What time are we going to leave the house? 5 am? Wake up at 4? Sleep when? I get off at 10 on a very very good day.
I have done this - he is broadly correct. At the end of the two years, despite being relatively thrifty, having no life, being miserable and sleep deprived, I had made a few thousand. Not anywhere near enough to get a deposit on a flat. It is true that whilst you do need to live close to the office and after tax, in a progressive tax system, it's not a lot of money i.e. most grads get paid about around 30k out of uni and the difference between that and 45k after increased overheads living in central London, costs of suits, shoes wearing out from 14 hour a day wear and tear, there's minimal difference in the salaries. It's an unpleasant job and only a minority stay - the exits can be pretty good though for some people sometimes. He is exaggerating the numbers somewhat to make his points, but not as much as other commentators suggest.
This makes me appreciate my job a lot more. I have a higher apprenticeship with a major engineering firm and the starting salary for me is 18k, with the first year only being in study - a majority of the time doing nothing. End salary of 40k, in a 37 hour week, in 4 years with management roles available depending on performance obviously. Investment bank trading sounds like modern slavery.
palacefloor not too bad i take a ped to work still live at home saved 115k in 3 years so far. If you live like a student and most your friends are broke then you can easily save
First off, if you really care about money, go to Hong Kong/Singapore. Secondly, investment banking is still incredibly prestigious in terms of exit opportunities, and will give you better chance to be successful in life. A 2-year analyst program at a BB will benefit you more than any possible job you can think of upon graduation. After that, so many doors will be open to you it's ridiculous. Source: first-hand experience and observing the life trajectory of peers.
Anton Marusenko I think a little bit more pay, less income tax if not same amount of total pay. Cost for living is 95% of NYC. Alcohol is taxed heavily so if you are not a big drinker it's a good place. Main benefits are kind people in Singapore and the amazing weather all year round. Also Singapore's very clean. Hk on the other hand is super crowded and filled with rude people.
I'm in BB IBD in HK and tax is 16% across all brackets. Base salary is the same as NY, we get free housing on top of that, and bonus is on par or slightly better than NYC/London
What kind of exit opportunities do you guys get? I interviewed and IB analyst a few months back and I wasn't impressed. Best guys I've seen are the ex-consultants.
"The perception of what people get paid and what ends up in their pockets is totally misguided" totally true. I am in computer sciences and when i was studying for me 40k€ (gross )was big and today when i earning it it is nothing.. the rent of the appart is half my net salary...
Yea tell me about it. I got a 5k raise with a new IT position (65k US) and i can barley survive on it and 5k increase only gave me 100$ extra after taxes a paycheck...
£50k is way more than enough as a young person in central London. Flatsharing is one of the best bits about being your 20s, and a reeaally nice (for 20-something standards) one in Zone 1 would be no more than £1500pppm. You'd have enough left over for hols, going out, nice food and savings. If you have a good group of friends and enjoy your job, you can live happily in London for a hell of a lot less than an investment banker. That said, if you surround yourself with big spenders and are desperate to keep up with their lifestyle it's a different story.
I think what he defines as the basic lifestyle is just to explain to people that on those terms you won't live the flash life with loads of money that people portray IB to be, such as buying ferraris etc.
Working for 40-50k for 2 years isn’t that bad. I mean in most jobs you don’t earn a lot in the beginning. As an Associate you earn pretty good already. And in just 5 more years you are Executive Director with a very good salary. So if everything goes well you are on a 200k salary + bonuses with 30. And here you have the possibility to get even more promotions. I don’t see the salary as a problem, because you will still earn a lot more then the average. The bigger Problem is probably the Work-Life-Balance.
I've seen this video more times than I can count but always rewatch it when it comes up as suggested - there's something so gripping about it, the level of control he has over the room, the silence of the students. (coming from someone who is in the industry)
I see real wealth in mayfair. He is right. A nice Two bedroom apartment in central london rented is around 3.5 - 4k per month. Eating out in top restaurants 300 - 500 per meal. Owning a Bentley or rolls... expensive. Nice skiing holiday 10K. Anything less is basic.
Wish he had touched on the wild hours especially for analysts/associates. Also, I think he should have addressed that a lot of junior level bankers go to a PE or VC fund after a few years.
You'd be better off being a plumber... no university education but no student loan, almost guaranteed a job with a 8 h working day five days a week. You might not get that fancy business card, but you will not be miserable and you will actually have a life (and money).
A plumber with the skills required in a successful career in IB would probably make more - a lot more in fact. Start with the plumbing, move into opening your own bathroom installation company. The bloke who lives in the £5m house up the road did just that. He's mid 30s if that.
I live in Hong Kong and am among the 3% most well paid employees in the city. Our effective income tax rate is just around 15%. Not too bad right? Yet, i still live a very basic life because property price in Hong Kong is crazily high. I paid USD1m for a 320sqft apartment near central of the city (for the reasons explained by Anton). Mortgage payment eats up a big part of my income. So despite of the low tax rate comparing to US and UK, i see no advantage on our disposable income. Having a decent job is always nice. But you need much more than that to earn a comfortable life.
4:56 It's as if these interviews aren't even concerned about the merits of candidates, but rather indoctrinating a false sense of exclusivity and a prosperity. The result is favorable for the IB's as they get a discount army of industriously compliant servants. Reminds me of the a famous proverb, "If hard work paid off than donkeys would be covered in gold."
I think that working for a few years in an IB isn't to bad because you'll make connections and learn a lot about how the industry and basically the world works. That information is invaluable when trading stocks and if you're planning to start your own business. The main problem with these jobs is where you have to live. The long hours means you need to live in the CBD, whereas if you lived even 15 mins away from the CBD the rent and house prices drop significantly, which makes life so much easier. I really think the bands should partner with some of the real estate companies to get rents for bankers (year 1-6) reduced, assuring that the apartments will always have someone renting it.
I was lucky enough that mentor once told me... The flashy, fancy jobs very often don’t pay as much as people think they do. But because they’re trendy and you can tell your mates “I’m a trader”. It’s often the boring jobs no one wants that’ll pay better.
I earned £17k a year as a first year legal trainee in Edinburgh in the mid 00s (a fair bit higher than the Law Society recommended minimum at the time). Edinburgh is actually more expensive than London on wages to cost of living ratio. I was taking home just over £1,000 net a month. I lived with friends in a share flat. I definitely wasn’t living it large but it actually seemed like a lot of money after being a broke student for 5 years! Maybe the most elite graduates expect to walk into a high paying entry level job but the rest of us are lucky just to find a graduate position and grind it out for a few years.
A big challenge for most people is they enter into an industry when it's past it's boom stage (and only enter into it because of the presumed riches). As Anton mentions, they follow the press and then the graduating cohorts enter into a high profile industry en mass: a manifestation of herd mentality. It's much harder to follow your interest (or to actually have one) that most people don't pay attention to. It turns out that is a better bet.
The whole point of living in Central London at that age is to have fun, go out and do stuff, basically slightly extend your student years if you choose to. It's just a total waste having f--k all money to show for a 70 hour week - and not even in a permanent job. Yes, you can buy that BMW. Not only do you have no time to drive it, in Central London there is NO POINT in driving it. You just don't need it, there's nowhere to park it and the sort of accommodation that has parking will break bank even further. At that age and stage of your career, you can have much better conditions and WLB just doing something else. If you're smart enough to make the cut for an investment bank then you really can do just about anything. I know someone who had it all. Three year Cambridge degree, got a prestigious City job at an investment bank and was a trader for about three years. Burned out. He actually took a postgraduate medical course and is now a consultant gastroenterologist earning more than he ever did in his City analyst role, isn't locked in by stocks and penalties, and not to mention he now lives well away from London and has a stellar quality of life.
50k for central London is moreee than enough to live a really comfortable life!! And I genuinely mean zone 1, money for outings, holidays, etc. If you can’t live in London for nearly 3.8k net a month as a post-grad, you don’t have an income problem, you’ve got a spending problem.
Late response here but I think the issue is first taxes and student loans will eat around 1/3 of the £50K immediately. Then you've got to live in Central London due to the long hours which is quite expensive. Assuming things like standard living costs, vacations, going out and feel good purchases (which you will likely make to cope with everything), you won't have saved anywhere near as much as you think you will especially compared to popular conceptions.
No one lives in central London. Most of the banks are in Canary Wharf or Liverpool Street. Canary Wharf and surrounding areas is hell but dirt cheap, and Liverpool Street, you can live in Shoreditch, Bow, Mile End, Whitechapel etc.at varying price levels. You can commute from St John's Wood etc. in good time to get in at Canary Wharf. And few IBers want to stay on in IB - the whole point is to do it for the better and reasonably paid exit options e.g. in PE. Income tax applies to everyone and only has rhetorical import to a bunch of mediocre students who have never had a job before. You won't get rich in IB especially if you spend only a few years in it, but it's a reasonable living. The problem is that this has to be coupled with the hours and together means it's simply not sustainable.
I'm sorry but living in the s-holes of Canary Wharf, Mile End and Whitechapel is pretty much having a basic life (or below that even, honestly). Then if you live on actual nice neighbourhoods in London you would have to commute to work which would probably make the situation unsustainable as you do not have time to commute. I agree with you though that is definitely important to point out that his main point was that nobody will get really rich in IB and nobody will have an incredibly luxurious life in London out of such job. He also forgot to mention that when you have children, then it's a downward spiral. Children in London = means you gotta buy at least a 3-bedroom flat, then private schools which cost a small fortune, then university fees later on... It is just definitely not worth to trade your youth, and most importantly, health, for such a sad career.
Deborah Domenicci I am sorry but no body fucking wants to live in central anymore it’s a fucking disaster live in central on other hand canary wharf is much cleaner,safer,quieter place to live and it’s also had all the best modern apartments there.
Exit Uni at 21, Analyst for 2 years --> 23, and then associate for 3 years --> 26 years old making 200k base salary+ 100k in bonus. That's not bad really is it?
Banter Smith everyone conveniently skips over the 1 in 10,000 part. Also keep in mind only top graduated even bother applying to an Investment Bank. Also 3 years is absolutely the fastest. Most people take longer to get past associate and just as many wash out because they cant take 100 hour work weeks.
I used to always think about the money in everything in my career choices throughout school. I am now at Uni doing Econ and at one point I suddenly decided that maybe the stress wasn’t worth it to go into a top IB. Since then I’ve started considering things far less competitive (eg jobs at perhaps Bank of England) who may pay less, but in the grand scheme of things, you will still be earning a fair amount, but your life won’t be drained by the time you are 27.
@@yourmastergggg4402 1500 on rent? If your flat sharing you can get it for much less. I'm living in central with uni friends and I am living comfortably, for 500.
Sajid that's the entire point. No one working in a top investment bank would 'share' their apartment. It's a lifestyle choice and these dudes have quite an expensive lifestyle. If you're gonna eat and live like shit to reduce your cost you might as well move somewhere else
At that point why not just join the military officers make 55k plus home expenses and bonus pay if you are working in finance or engineering. You also get a job that is meaningful and fulfilling. You will also get leadership experience.
I think what he is saying is true. Ive seen for myself what financial analysts get. I have spoken to one who has about 6 or 7 years in the industry and surprised he still has to plan hard and compromise on a few things.
I’ve always regretted not selling my soul to the financial industry 17 years ago. Not anymore 😂 I earn way less (And I live in central London!) but I’m not in a flashy industry and do not need expensive things to keep up with the Jones > and I have enjoyed my career in the past 17 years with good work life balance. Thank for this video!
Ya much better just figuring out how to trade on your own. No reason at all one should be working on the markets 70 hours a week that’s how you burn out lmao
50K after tax, national insurance and student loan is 35.3 K divided by 12= £2900 - 2900 minus 800(single bedroom in central London) minus 100 (monthly transport) minus 800 (food and clothes) equals = 1200 savings per month..
But what are you saving for? Assuming you never spend a bean of that remaining £1200 and live like a monk, that is £14.4k per year. That's absolutely measly considering the hours you work. It is most definitely NOT enough for the likes of a house deposit and you are just treading water. Saving £1200 a month in London as a young person is just not realistic. You will want to spend that money, go out and do things, take trips etc.
The moral of he story that I see here is the following: if you are a highly intelligent and clever guy that dedicates his life to the trading profession for life, it is better to raise some basic capital that would let you make consistent money and then trade on your own living a peaceful life somewhere in countryside far away from noisy & expensive city
In all honesty, leave the salary, a job in trading is 100 times more intellectually stimulating and interesting than some bs desk job. Instead of asking people how their day was in morning meetings and trying to take 2 weeks to fix an issue just to have your manager say it’s useless, a trader gains knowledge of how the world really works which to be honest is priceless. And of course it also teaches you risk taking etc which would be vital if one wants to grow money in their personal lives.
Wow. And there was I, jealous of the haves and me being the have not. All I can do is thank this gentleman for explaining the miserable life of the ' wannabe '.
I like Anton Kriel but he is so unbelievably out of touch with anything even close to reality if he thinks that £8.3k pcm post-tax is even remotely closely akin to living a "basic life", central London or otherwise, & that's not even taking the £50k post-tax bonus into account! He needs to spend a bit more time with his family & school friends in Liverpool to regain some perspective.
Living in central London is absolutely miles more expensive than Liverpool. Have you seen central London rents and the cost of living? It all goes in and nearly all comes right back out again. He's a realist but also dispelling the myth that as soon as you get into investment banking you can live a rich lifestyle of massive bonuses and luxury.
His point was if you want to live like a "banker" based on most people's perception, £8k a month is nowhere near enough. And he's right! You'll need a whole lot more to be living in a luxury serviced apartment in central London and drinking Veuve Clicquot whilst snorting lines of coke up some hooker's ass every night. After all that's what a lot of undergrads fantasise about working in the City.
A modern newley renovated 1 bed room apartment in central London with hardly any commute (max 5min), you can reckon between 3-5k pcm with fees included. That leaves you at 3-4k and then you still have to pay for anything extra, plus food etc. so you maybe still have 1.5k over, if you want to actually join in going for lunch and dinner with colleagues. So now you have "lived" and worked 70+ h a week with hardly anything to spare in an old apartment maybe even shared flat for 8 years and can finally move into a 1 bedroom (!!) apartment and after 10 more years if you save every penny you may have 700k ish in you bank acc. You havent got a nice car, you dont have any hobbies, no free time, no family, no large apartment and the barest minium of everything else. Yes that seems desirable.
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"I consider a business card what you put in the ATM" This guy is a beast
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Every student in this room is rethinking their career choice right about now.
Back to social studies I guess!
Jacob Sellers I guarantee it!
this video explains why rich people hates paying taxes
@LazicStefan lol
Not just in that room fam!
I think most people who criticize his definition of a "basic" life in Central London are missing the point. He's trying to clarify that while 8.3k a month and 50k bonus is comfortable, it's nowhere near enough to live like Jordan Belfort in Wolf of Wall Street, which is precisely what most people think happens on Wall Street. You're still going to be eating out only a couple nights a week. You're still going to be renting a 700sf apartment. You're still not buying sports cars, and if you do, you won't get the chance to drive it. Most bankers live simple lives. The outliers who misbehave get fired for gross misconduct or washed out. Only once in a couple decades do you get Leo DiCaprio to play out your life on the big screen.
why is this comment not getting more attention?
FACTS
Right~
You don't get paid compared to New York. I think it's worse there because there's a higher tax bracket there.
Where did you get the 8.3k per month? He said you only make at most 40k per year...
I love his "no bullshit" attitude.
Eric harrington the dudes fucking legit. Total breath of fresh air!
Eric harrington completely agreed. It's like "you either want this or you don't" , unlike some other institutional millionaire traders" selling the dream (who make more from the classes than their trading which allows the dream)
@Treizez34 aka the Instagram traders smh
Eric harrington I
He's one of the most arrogant sounding people I've ever listened to.
moral of the story... not worth it. Farming never looked better.
Reelworthy are you farming now?
Have you tried to buy land! Renting enough land to make a good living is nearly impossible and no-one will sell you enough land to pay a good living from farming. Most farmers are tenant farmers and the very few ultra rich land owners (like Lord Halifax or The Crown Estates for example) make most of the money from land use with zero risk - they get their rent money even if the produce prices are low.
I have realised that UK Real Estate is hard to get into due being on a small island. In the US I can get around 10 Acres and a 4 Bed farmhouse for around $350,000 (Inbetween Philly & NYC)
exactly
HAHAHA. LOL
If you don't work for yourself, you'll always live on someone else's terms.
Exactly. You're a freelancer? You're still the client's bitch. You spend one third of your time acquiring clients, one third dealing with clients, and one third actually doing the work you're paid for.
If you work on your own, you'll always be working for the customers
@decentradical client is not a boss, and you get the full amount of the contract rather than an hourly pay.
decentradical And this is why you will never succeed. You see dealing with clients as a hassle. If you run a business, you are offering a service. The "freedom" comes from having the flexibility to decide HOW you want to offer that service and what YOU think is best for the client as opposed to listening to someone dumber than you but is your boss because he has "seniority." You should be striving to put satisfied smiles on customers' faces. And that in turn should give you satisfaction that you made someone's day better. And in return for that satisfaction, the customer rewards you with currency. Now do you get morons? Absolutely. But by and large, people just want to buy a product or a service to satisfy a need and walk away without feeling cheated.
@@LordTrayus you speak the truth
I watched this in 2020 in the middle of my Finance degree and completely changed my perception on the industry. I now work in Fintech and make ~$80k in my entry level, never work past 6 and have great growth prospects.
I hope more people see this and realise there's other paths to work in finance that can be just as lucrative without the modern slavery part
How stressful is it? I am nearing the end of my PhD in physics and consider investment banks/hedge funds more and more each day. They seem to suck up a handful of us MS/PhD's from my university each year.
It depends on What you mean by stress. For me I consider it a responsibility and it keeps me on my toes mainly because I’m dealing with peoples lifesavings. To others that could be stress, to me that’s responsibility because it pushes me to know more and be better at what I do. I also have a degree in physics, didn’t go past BSc. Now I’ve learnt python and I use that in my day activities. The investment sector is huge and you have to know what part of it works for you.
"If you are going to give up the best days of your life i.e. the 20s, waking up in a dark and coming back in a dark. Working 14 hours per day staring at the algorithm on the computer desk, you should know how much you are getting compensated for that." - Anton Kreil
Without money what else are you going to do? Play video games from 20 to 30.
Im a computer nerd, I would love to do that.
@@jackmiddleton2080 You do both.
@@jackmiddleton2080 I admire people who spend their 20's doing whatever they like. That's why I don't understand why people want to leave their parents' houses at 18 so much and live, voluntarily in poverty.
🔥
Dude, I felt my dreams get crushed listening to this guy and I never even wanted to work in finance lol
He kept it real
dude, dont be. its ruthless out there and if you really want it, you can get it. just like he did.
Moral of this story:
Comfortable and basic lifestyles are subjective terms.
moral of this story: most people don't recognize the difference between gross and net.
This is a very important lecture that anyone applying at an IB needs to watch so we can weed-out the misguided from the doomed.
This video should have been screened to all senior students in all universities. Because this is accurate for all majors
Companies have quotas on Managing Directors, similar to how the military has quotas on Generals.
No one moves up the ladder until one already on the ladder leaves.
They can bring people in externally as well.
@@grahambutler734 it’s very rare. Even being brought in as a VP is very rare. Most people start from the bottom up
This is actually fucking hilarious you could hear the students souls leave their body.
Just scaring off the weak ones
i love how he just has to fight off his laughter in this video :D
@@5orgen51 scary off anyone who has sense - so much more money to be mad in other fields with way better work life balance. No brainier.
A dose of reality kicked in for sure
Could be worse, you could be a junior doctor working in the NHS in London.
The take away for me was
Well you could but you’d live a basic life.
Well you clearly weren't listening very well. Is making 200k and working all hours of the day a basic life? Where the hell do you come from
FlightEvolution you will be working 70 hours a week, on a little bit more expensive apartment, eating out every now and then. That’s a basic life. He is trying to destroy the perception that people think they will all become like The Wolf in Wallstreet people. Which is not possible.
@@flightevolution8132 You very obviously were not listening if you managed to not hear the ten times he said "You'd live a basic life" in the video. That was his ENTIRE message. He suggested in the video that at the VP level, you'd be able to save about 1000 pounds a month. That's it. If that's your margin, you are most certainly not living a life in luxury.
I think the point people missed was the perception of traders in the media living this luxury life when in actual fact..."You'd live a basic life" in comparison. Especially if you're living in the city where rates are higher.
He crushed it. I'm glad I didn't go to IB even though I was offered to go right after my engineering degree completion. I became a structural engineer instead and I thought I was getting peanuts compared to IB guys. BUT, I work 37.5hrs a week. I choose to work on contracts as they pay better. 45/hr typically. Work from anywhere you want, show up occasionally at the office. Get paid about 8k/month gross on contract and do little side jobs, add 1.5-2k typically. So say 9.5k a month. The thing is, I run ltd so I'm able to throw in many expenses into accounting. Smart accountant is important. I end up paying about 5k in taxes at the end of the year. So in theory, I make more than IB, I work less than IB, and I have the choice of working anywhere closer to London but definitely not close to central London because that would kill all of it. I managed to find a gf while doing that (now wife) and started a family. I enjoy spending time with my daughter. I still think IBs make more than he says, otherwise who would sacrifice to work that many hours?
What do you study bro
It's not necessarily IB that makes good money but rather what you do AFTER IB. Most hedge funds and private equity shops pay upwards of a million if you make it into a middle position (more experienced than entry but not quite management). That usually takes about 10 years or so to attain so you'll be in your mid 30s or early 40s with a 7 figure bank account. Now is it worth the grueling lifestyle? Depends on who you are, I guess. You won't be getting your 20s back. But you get paid for sacrificing your 20s.
this is the dream right here fellas, hope it's only got better 3 years later.
I love how he slightly giggles after everything he says
I have holdings in CLX
Clx cant produce the amount people want to buy these Days!!
#Corona Virus
he's a sneerer
@@aza1479 whats CLX?
People and the media have confused investment banking with private equity. IB is incredibly unsexy, filled with long hours and basic takes such as powerpoint creation. PE is slow but the cash is far and above better when you hit it big.
This guy is loving destroying people’s dreams !! 😂
This guy just helped me decide my path with this video. I'll start my undergrad this september and in the first year at my university, you don't really have a major. I thought about getting into either consulting, banking or politics via international relations. banking is definitely off the table and more than forgotten on my side. I've oftentimes heard how shit of a business banking and especially IB is, but I refused to believe it. Now I finally understood why I should not go into banking.
nah he actually did the opposite thing
being an investment banker isn't a noble dream
but most of them will still get a bonus which is non existent in other industries.
@@laupeter4594 but for the amount of time you have to put in to it, is it worth it? You literally give up your life for the bank and don't for one second think you're going to be treated well at junior level. I have known people work in investment banks and it's not a glamorous job. They drive average cars, they life an average life. It's no longer now movies like The Wolf of Wall Street portray it to be. For me, it's simply not worth it. You're better of trading from home if you think you're that good at it.
you can hear a pin drop in this room
He's wearing a lapel mic, its not gonna pic up anything in the room.
I did not hear it
What's wrong with 40 gs?
10of Coinz I listened to the vid again and I couldn't hear it!
I heard a lot of hopes and dreams being shattered the more he spoke lol
hes really getting a kick out of this and who wouldnt
And then you get there, at 40, you look back on your life sat behind a desk for 70/80/90 hours a week, with some potentially hansome zero's in your bank account and realise that time is the most precious commodity you have and you have wasted it trying to gain something material, sacrificing yourself to lubricate the inner workings of the capitalist machine.
Come your day of judgement, how important is your brand new BMW x5 going to be? your wee mansion in suburbia? All you will think about is your loved ones and favourite memories, which btw, Bob your gardner, who worked 35 hours a week had plenty of time to make, because he knew the true value of life. Bobs not all that stupid after all.
Yeah the hours just don't match up. Your practically giving up a huge portion of your life for $ (which is the reality some ppl face)
I agree however I would rather do it working for myself than making a company money like a slave.
Some people enjoy being at the top and working nonstop and would get deathly bored working 40 hours a week, it's just personal choice.
Bob's my uncle.
Spartacus the fallacy you make is you think people who chase money are chasing material goods. There is so much more you can buy with money. It provides you with a level of security for your future livelihood, and that of your spouse, children, and grandchildren. Perhaps there’s a couple of charities you feel strongly about and you know the best way to help them out is to acquire as much money as possible so you can donate to them. Perhaps one day the world will end and Elon musk can take people to mars to escape but there’s only enough time to take 1% of the population. Then you will be wishing you had millions of dollars in the bank.
This guy is the best realest on the planet .. he’s seen stock market dips deeper than any man alive has seen; I can see it in his eyes.
Mans been to war in the markets.
I think spending 10-25 hours a week on your own personally managed investments, and holding a regular full time job is the move
2008 killed IB. Tech is where the money is now.
I make between 10k - 12k per month in the last 8 years or so. Im 39 now and work as a freelancer. I don't even have a car nor do I own a house lol.
You are absolutly right!
Tech requires investment. Tech companies still go public. M&A's still happen every month. So, Investment banks are always relevant, however, it's not as sweet as people think. Same with corporate law.
Tech is where the money is *for now*
it's actually the same thing. Being a tech developer is as hard as an IB. unless you start your own business.
If you’re gonna work 80 hours a week for ten years, pick a nicer city than London
Literally the best city for a 70 hour week job if you can afford it.
@@whotube88 the weather is amazing /s
@@whotube88 Literally isn't.
If you can afford it and living there doesn't affect your standard of living then there's no issue, if it does affect you financially then don't live there, simple.
Who cares about the weather when you are working 70hrs a week?
Go to school... they said
Get good grades... they said
Go to university... they said
Go work for a bank... they said
Get a safe and secure job... they said
Work hard... they said
Save up money... they said
That's risky... they said
Buy a house... they said
MY LIFE IS A LIE!
exactly
Sheep.
Are you still alive, man? Uni grades _can_ be good for you, because _once_ you land a job, it's a bit safer than being without one. If you're an entrepreneur, you'll work ten times harder, but often for less, and with _way_ less security. On the flip-side, entrepreneurs are better equipped to make the best out of a poor situation.
So here's my take on grades. I have some. And they've given me access to certain jobs that's made my life simpler. On the other hand, I'm also self-thaught in programming and a few other things. That means whenever I apply for a job - at least here in Norway - I'm auto-rejected from jobs where they require a grade within programming etc - even though I'm good at programming! So should I waste time and money on trying to get into uni to get those programming courses? Well, there's a Catch 22 for ya!
Everything you said is True and what they told me and my friends at school. The real sad part is ... they are still saying the same thing to children today
I'm glad I'm realizing this as a high school senior. Probably going to save $320k by going to a school that gives me a full-ride than paying for the "best" school I get into for this lifestyle.
I'm so glad TH-cam exists.
This guy is amazing! Saw him on tha reality show about investors, he made his way by working early with best name in the market.
I can respect that he is speaking from experience. I much appreciate the honesty . In life , I’ve learned that approaching the world through the leases of realism pays in dividends.
£175k in central London a basic life?! Is this guy washing his hands in Moët
But you gotta admit his swag level is over 9000.
Yeah at that point I stopped listening.
@Guy Pie bro I'm 24k a year in Stockholm central and I do warehouse work at 18, 194k a year is unfathomably lavish lifestyle
Taxes are higher and it's one of the most expensive cities on earth to live in and I'm doing it just a bit over UK minimum wage
@@xectia he's saying that that much money can afford a very lavish lifestyle. He earns 24k
If you have a family then yeah you will live a basic life on £175k in central London, even if it is just one kid
I wish there was a lecture like this required by law in every university before students have paid their first tuition fee...wouldn't that be great! That would actually make so many people's lives better. I wish I were given "no bullshit" information at the beginning of my program. I would've never chosen to study that field, but I was cheated like everyone else by a system that is held accountable to absolutely nobody anywhere in the world. Universities in this age are businesses and not concerned with the wellbeing of students or the future of the society. I only see parents nowadays as the last line of defense against these predatory institutions; and the majority of parents are failing to advise their children properly. Filling a child with false hope is as destructive as giving him no hope!
*Filling a child with false hope is much worse than giving him no hope!*
Dude you're Muslim they teach you that in the Koran off the first page
@@eskimoto4417 lol
@@eskimoto4417 LMAO
If you apply for a FA position and don't even know the basics of tax, cashflow, living cost, understanding of contract, etc. then I am wondering what curriculum you get in your studies.
Let's start a charity for these poor bankers not able to get a good meal everyday.
The bankers in the UK got bailed out by tax payer after the 2008 crash. A lot of ordinary people suffered bc of austerity.
Charity is exactly what we bankers need when the government does not create jobs, ship existing ones outside, force out liquidity from the economy forcefully, increase taxes without creating new lines of income and opportunities for the economy. We bankers definetly are the filth trying to sell an economy without industries, push out money where there are virtually no opportunities. Oh yes I forgot we filthy bankers also push around financial products where your savings are saved from worthless tax policies created by righteous and altruistic politicians who have only your best interest.... You are right we deserve charity because we are scum right!
😂
Clearly you are not selling dream here. Good work. Honestly is still the best policy
I went for a trading job once in the city! I was only 20 or so! I got there early and they were impressed I took the interview seriously in a suit! But I walked out and the queue was unbelievable. They almost needed the Police to shepherd them for a Saturday morning interview! Unreal!!!
Always look at it by pay per hours worked. You can get paid 120k a year but if you’re working 80 hour work weeks you’re doing just as well as 60k a year with normal work weeks. Actually worse since 120k puts you in a higher tax bracket and you’re sacrificing social life and leisure for every hour you work over 40/week.
This guy always looks sleep deprived lol
Banking hours leaves a mark on ya
vaguevoices Definitely ! I don't think I could handle it ahaha
Exactly. The money is only one aspect and it isn't worth giving your life and soul for.
@Anon Gambler good luck being homeless and souless
@@Blashmack cocaine leaves a mark on you.
It's like starting out as a YTS in the Conference South Football league on 100 quid a week, but where you really want to be is the Premiership on 100K a week. But like Anton says the probability of getting there gives you a P number of
Great analogy. Football is exactly the same
Man, those bags don't lie
Some say he still hasn’t slept since his contract started
😂
Back in the day all my cousins who went to top unis made fun of my cousin who immigrated here at a young age and decided to drop out of secondary and work. The drop out worked hard and didn’t compare himself to no one. His boss died and gave him 100% ownership of his business which I cant disclose. He is 33 with over 3 million in the bank. The uni grads are working but they live an average life. Life has no plan. You literally cannot predict what your future will be.
The younger generation kept talking about the eye instead of focusing on the message ....
This guy has lived the life
And he's not even 40
lol how has he lived a life when he only sees darkness going to and fro for work everyday? maybe he THINKS he has lived a life thats what
@@laupeter4594 we are talking about life of an investment banker, something he clearly is very aware of
The information is good but he shouldn't keep banging on about living a basic life. You can live in central london even at £25k a year, just basic. But at £40k-200k, it's definitely not basic. The only thing worth noting about being a trader is the hours you work. If you are working 70 hours a week earning £200k a year, it's the same as someone working the standard 40 hours a week earning £100k a year in terms of your hourly wage. Compared to most people, you are losing 30 hours a week for a good number of years of your life, if that's worth it to you.
You're thinking to small then. Those who are wealthy and those who aren't truly have different mindsets. It is a basic life.
Don’t forget there is lifestyle inflation at work here as well. When you’re surrounded by colleagues who are millionaires and any after-work drink ends up with either champagne or whisky, the £40-£80k gets down to 0 really fast. Not even factoring in the ‘conveniences’ from having a >80h workweek. Think of take-out food, Ubers, cabs, tips and coffee on the go. It is not really comparable to a retail worker earning £24-£30k.
I think when you are the type of person that pursues finance you consider basic to be anything that doesn't impress people.
@@LaidbackLuc9 damn i would literally prefer a lobotomy to that life
The amount of times he says "you'll live a basic life" really hits home 🤦🏼♂️
Do not agree that it’s impossible to live in the city on 40k a year. No-one actually lives in the city of London. Majority of young professionals in all industries live in Zone 2 bear tube lines and train stations. I can make it into the city in 20 minutes from my Zone 2 flat. Depends entirely also on your lifestyle. If you are a member at the NED, you eat in the Dorchester, and go to Mayfair clubs every Friday and live the true trader London lifestyle then yeah even 100k a year wouldn’t cut it. But a lot of young professionals in the city or London in general don’t do that. Point is you absolutely can like on 40k a year in London.
So you choose to completely ignore the bit where he says we need to be in the office by 6 in the morning? What time are we going to leave the house? 5 am? Wake up at 4? Sleep when? I get off at 10 on a very very good day.
I would rather work in a bank working 70+ hrs than a min wage job
I have done this - he is broadly correct. At the end of the two years, despite being relatively thrifty, having no life, being miserable and sleep deprived, I had made a few thousand. Not anywhere near enough to get a deposit on a flat. It is true that whilst you do need to live close to the office and after tax, in a progressive tax system, it's not a lot of money i.e. most grads get paid about around 30k out of uni and the difference between that and 45k after increased overheads living in central London, costs of suits, shoes wearing out from 14 hour a day wear and tear, there's minimal difference in the salaries. It's an unpleasant job and only a minority stay - the exits can be pretty good though for some people sometimes. He is exaggerating the numbers somewhat to make his points, but not as much as other commentators suggest.
Think by doing that he is also decreasing the competition on the job market, which basically means a lower supply of applicants.
If the players would get it through their heads to do their jobs "remotely", like Branson does, then the playing field levels out.
This makes me appreciate my job a lot more. I have a higher apprenticeship with a major engineering firm and the starting salary for me is 18k, with the first year only being in study - a majority of the time doing nothing. End salary of 40k, in a 37 hour week, in 4 years with management roles available depending on performance obviously. Investment bank trading sounds like modern slavery.
palacefloor not too bad i take a ped to work still live at home saved 115k in 3 years so far. If you live like a student and most your friends are broke then you can easily save
You also get a bonus! Your work is actually productive.
Getting any job is a form of slavery anyway
as long as you are an employee, you are a slave.
First off, if you really care about money, go to Hong Kong/Singapore.
Secondly, investment banking is still incredibly prestigious in terms of exit opportunities, and will give you better chance to be successful in life. A 2-year analyst program at a BB will benefit you more than any possible job you can think of upon graduation. After that, so many doors will be open to you it's ridiculous.
Source: first-hand experience and observing the life trajectory of peers.
why is hk / sg better? less tax?
Anton Marusenko I think a little bit more pay, less income tax if not same amount of total pay. Cost for living is 95% of NYC. Alcohol is taxed heavily so if you are not a big drinker it's a good place. Main benefits are kind people in Singapore and the amazing weather all year round. Also Singapore's very clean. Hk on the other hand is super crowded and filled with rude people.
I'm in BB IBD in HK and tax is 16% across all brackets. Base salary is the same as NY, we get free housing on top of that, and bonus is on par or slightly better than NYC/London
I'm interested in working in IB, would you like to share your work experience? By the way I'm also applying internship to Singapore
What kind of exit opportunities do you guys get? I interviewed and IB analyst a few months back and I wasn't impressed. Best guys I've seen are the ex-consultants.
Moral of the story: don't do investment banking as a financial analyst. Work somewhere else. Try to do a top MBA and then get in as associate
Except then , half your associate salary will be going to pay your student loan
@@pratikchaudri6404 and loans NEED TO BE REPAID. DUH!
@@pratikchaudri6404 There are ways around that.
Moral of the story: Traders aren’t investment bankers
"The perception of what people get paid and what ends up in their pockets is totally misguided" totally true. I am in computer sciences and when i was studying for me 40k€ (gross )was big and today when i earning it it is nothing.. the rent of the appart is half my net salary...
Yea tell me about it. I got a 5k raise with a new IT position (65k US) and i can barley survive on it and 5k increase only gave me 100$ extra after taxes a paycheck...
Then you are just irresponsible if you spend half of it
@@updaet6870 no. The problem is: The high paying jobs are mostly in very expensive cities - Especially in the US
Dude 40k€ a month is very good money. I
@@jacekcierpiszewski it’s a year
£50k is way more than enough as a young person in central London. Flatsharing is one of the best bits about being your 20s, and a reeaally nice (for 20-something standards) one in Zone 1 would be no more than £1500pppm. You'd have enough left over for hols, going out, nice food and savings. If you have a good group of friends and enjoy your job, you can live happily in London for a hell of a lot less than an investment banker.
That said, if you surround yourself with big spenders and are desperate to keep up with their lifestyle it's a different story.
I think what he defines as the basic lifestyle is just to explain to people that on those terms you won't live the flash life with loads of money that people portray IB to be, such as buying ferraris etc.
"I have to go return some video tapes ".
Gabe Night that’s only because his father owns the investment bank.
You can absolutely live in central London on 50K. I managed on 29K when I first moved to Earl's Court renting a room for £800 just a few years ago.
800£ will get you a really tiny shoebox today. Unless you have some relations it's almost impossible to find a decent flat in London for
Earl's Court isn't Central London, for one thing.
And secondly £800 out there is either a total bargain or you're asking what the catch is.
@@mxbx307 earls court isnt centra london no?i think you need a map lol
Working for 40-50k for 2 years isn’t that bad. I mean in most jobs you don’t earn a lot in the beginning. As an Associate you earn pretty good already. And in just 5 more years you are Executive Director with a very good salary. So if everything goes well you are on a 200k salary + bonuses with 30. And here you have the possibility to get even more promotions. I don’t see the salary as a problem, because you will still earn a lot more then the average. The bigger Problem is probably the Work-Life-Balance.
I've seen this video more times than I can count but always rewatch it when it comes up as suggested - there's something so gripping about it, the level of control he has over the room, the silence of the students. (coming from someone who is in the industry)
Yep, these talks inspired me to pursue my own business .
Control my hours and effort .
gross starting salary is 50-55k now excluding bonus , although everything here may still apply considering cost of living/rent changes
you still have to live in central london
8300 a month plus 50k bonus, you can have a nice life in central London. I live in central London on a lot less, this guy is the king of FUD 🤣🤣🤣
he means you cant live a life thats worth giving up all your 20s for
You obviously have low aspersions. That’s ok mate. Not everyone can reach for the stars. Park my car and I’ll give you a 5 quid tip. Good boy
You bell pieces don't know the difference in lifestyle between a trader and someone in IBD😂
I see real wealth in mayfair. He is right. A nice Two bedroom apartment in central london rented is around 3.5 - 4k per month. Eating out in top restaurants 300 - 500 per meal. Owning a Bentley or rolls... expensive. Nice skiing holiday 10K. Anything less is basic.
@@mattemeny2606 Low aspersions ? Good one you uncultured swine.
"oi m8 ya got a loisence for that money?"
The absolute state of Bongland
Wish he had touched on the wild hours especially for analysts/associates. Also, I think he should have addressed that a lot of junior level bankers go to a PE or VC fund after a few years.
Traders do not go work for PE/VC
They don’t they go to hedge funds primarily
You'd be better off being a plumber... no university education but no student loan, almost guaranteed a job with a 8 h working day five days a week. You might not get that fancy business card, but you will not be miserable and you will actually have a life (and money).
Just have that permanent shit smell
A plumber with the skills required in a successful career in IB would probably make more - a lot more in fact.
Start with the plumbing, move into opening your own bathroom installation company. The bloke who lives in the £5m house up the road did just that. He's mid 30s if that.
i dont like dookie :(
Anyone with a brain needs this kind of mental stimulation, plumbing is boring and unsatisfying.
correct, a few weeks ago i saw some builders buy a whole lot of gold in cash !
I live in Hong Kong and am among the 3% most well paid employees in the city. Our effective income tax rate is just around 15%.
Not too bad right? Yet, i still live a very basic life because property price in Hong Kong is crazily high. I paid USD1m for a 320sqft apartment near central of the city (for the reasons explained by Anton). Mortgage payment eats up a big part of my income. So despite of the low tax rate comparing to US and UK, i see no advantage on our disposable income.
Having a decent job is always nice. But you need much more than that to earn a comfortable life.
Damn this guy is good, this should be shared with other undergrads. Very informative and surprising!
I would love to see the breakdown for politicians. So many public servants that become millionaires whilst in office, it's rather amazing..
4:56 It's as if these interviews aren't even concerned about the merits of candidates, but rather indoctrinating a false sense of exclusivity and a prosperity. The result is favorable for the IB's as they get a discount army of industriously compliant servants. Reminds me of the a famous proverb, "If hard work paid off than donkeys would be covered in gold."
That's because a donkey isn't fucking human
8000Brad I know a lot of donkey humans that work a lot but are fucking poor
Thank you for posting this video it really puts things into perspective 10,000 qualified people for each vacancy
I think that working for a few years in an IB isn't to bad because you'll make connections and learn a lot about how the industry and basically the world works. That information is invaluable when trading stocks and if you're planning to start your own business. The main problem with these jobs is where you have to live. The long hours means you need to live in the CBD, whereas if you lived even 15 mins away from the CBD the rent and house prices drop significantly, which makes life so much easier. I really think the bands should partner with some of the real estate companies to get rents for bankers (year 1-6) reduced, assuring that the apartments will always have someone renting it.
Investment banking doesn’t really translate to trading stock
Love this bloke. Brutal honesty, love that!
I was lucky enough that mentor once told me...
The flashy, fancy jobs very often don’t pay as much as people think they do. But because they’re trendy and you can tell your mates “I’m a trader”. It’s often the boring jobs no one wants that’ll pay better.
I earned £17k a year as a first year legal trainee in Edinburgh in the mid 00s (a fair bit higher than the Law Society recommended minimum at the time). Edinburgh is actually more expensive than London on wages to cost of living ratio. I was taking home just over £1,000 net a month. I lived with friends in a share flat. I definitely wasn’t living it large but it actually seemed like a lot of money after being a broke student for 5 years! Maybe the most elite graduates expect to walk into a high paying entry level job but the rest of us are lucky just to find a graduate position and grind it out for a few years.
Some 2 beds in the new high rises in Canary Wharf go for less than £3k/month (with onsite cinemas!), £8,3K/month is certainly not a "basic" life.
A big challenge for most people is they enter into an industry when it's past it's boom stage (and only enter into it because of the presumed riches). As Anton mentions, they follow the press and then the graduating cohorts enter into a high profile industry en mass: a manifestation of herd mentality. It's much harder to follow your interest (or to actually have one) that most people don't pay attention to. It turns out that is a better bet.
These numbers changed a lot over the pandemic. 1st year grads start at 125k now. Usually bonus 100%. Also, pay in NYC is way better than in London.
because there's been massive inflation?
The whole point of living in Central London at that age is to have fun, go out and do stuff, basically slightly extend your student years if you choose to. It's just a total waste having f--k all money to show for a 70 hour week - and not even in a permanent job. Yes, you can buy that BMW. Not only do you have no time to drive it, in Central London there is NO POINT in driving it. You just don't need it, there's nowhere to park it and the sort of accommodation that has parking will break bank even further.
At that age and stage of your career, you can have much better conditions and WLB just doing something else. If you're smart enough to make the cut for an investment bank then you really can do just about anything.
I know someone who had it all. Three year Cambridge degree, got a prestigious City job at an investment bank and was a trader for about three years. Burned out. He actually took a postgraduate medical course and is now a consultant gastroenterologist earning more than he ever did in his City analyst role, isn't locked in by stocks and penalties, and not to mention he now lives well away from London and has a stellar quality of life.
Cor bet he’s fun at parties
Um... you can definitely live in Central London on 50k. Honestly, you can live in London on 28-30k...
Central London on 50k Gross?? Youre dreaming. He's talking about Covent Garden or South bank, where a 1 bed apartment costs you 26k a year.
London Bridge/Borough/Aldegate East is 800-900pm. You can live well on 28-30 easily.
he really told something useful, general people will not know about all these.
Thank you for this free lecture/seminar. Way ahead of time.
He also forgot that the enourmous student loan will drain even more of your salary.
Are you American?
50k for central London is moreee than enough to live a really comfortable life!! And I genuinely mean zone 1, money for outings, holidays, etc.
If you can’t live in London for nearly 3.8k net a month as a post-grad, you don’t have an income problem, you’ve got a spending problem.
Late response here but I think the issue is first taxes and student loans will eat around 1/3 of the £50K immediately. Then you've got to live in Central London due to the long hours which is quite expensive. Assuming things like standard living costs, vacations, going out and feel good purchases (which you will likely make to cope with everything), you won't have saved anywhere near as much as you think you will especially compared to popular conceptions.
No one lives in central London. Most of the banks are in Canary Wharf or Liverpool Street. Canary Wharf and surrounding areas is hell but dirt cheap, and Liverpool Street, you can live in Shoreditch, Bow, Mile End, Whitechapel etc.at varying price levels. You can commute from St John's Wood etc. in good time to get in at Canary Wharf. And few IBers want to stay on in IB - the whole point is to do it for the better and reasonably paid exit options e.g. in PE.
Income tax applies to everyone and only has rhetorical import to a bunch of mediocre students who have never had a job before.
You won't get rich in IB especially if you spend only a few years in it, but it's a reasonable living. The problem is that this has to be coupled with the hours and together means it's simply not sustainable.
I'm sorry but living in the s-holes of Canary Wharf, Mile End and Whitechapel is pretty much having a basic life (or below that even, honestly). Then if you live on actual nice neighbourhoods in London you would have to commute to work which would probably make the situation unsustainable as you do not have time to commute. I agree with you though that is definitely important to point out that his main point was that nobody will get really rich in IB and nobody will have an incredibly luxurious life in London out of such job. He also forgot to mention that when you have children, then it's a downward spiral. Children in London = means you gotta buy at least a 3-bedroom flat, then private schools which cost a small fortune, then university fees later on... It is just definitely not worth to trade your youth, and most importantly, health, for such a sad career.
Deborah Domenicci I am sorry but no body fucking wants to live in central anymore it’s a fucking disaster live in central on other hand canary wharf is much cleaner,safer,quieter place to live and it’s also had all the best modern apartments there.
Exit Uni at 21, Analyst for 2 years --> 23, and then associate for 3 years --> 26 years old making 200k base salary+ 100k in bonus. That's not bad really is it?
Banter Smith sure if you are willing to sacrifice almost all your leisure time, you work would be your life for that 5 years
Banter Smith everyone conveniently skips over the 1 in 10,000 part. Also keep in mind only top graduated even bother applying to an Investment Bank. Also 3 years is absolutely the fastest. Most people take longer to get past associate and just as many wash out because they cant take 100 hour work weeks.
not bad if by 26 youre ok with being utterly and completely BURNT OUT
Did you even fucking listen to the talk?
I used to always think about the money in everything in my career choices throughout school. I am now at Uni doing Econ and at one point I suddenly decided that maybe the stress wasn’t worth it to go into a top IB. Since then I’ve started considering things far less competitive (eg jobs at perhaps Bank of England) who may pay less, but in the grand scheme of things, you will still be earning a fair amount, but your life won’t be drained by the time you are 27.
50k in central, not that bad. 1k a month for a nice flatshare. 2k spending.
This guy's definition of a basic life and my definition of a basic life are quite different
@@yourmastergggg4402 1500 on rent? If your flat sharing you can get it for much less. I'm living in central with uni friends and I am living comfortably, for 500.
Sajid that's the entire point. No one working in a top investment bank would 'share' their apartment. It's a lifestyle choice and these dudes have quite an expensive lifestyle. If you're gonna eat and live like shit to reduce your cost you might as well move somewhere else
I just clicked because looking from my TH-cam homepage, he looked like the real-life version of Gordon Gekko.
I’ve heard at Goldmansachs they don’t even give you a desk until you have CFA level 1
I’m a financial analyst in the US, going on my 3rd year and I’m at 60k...
is your job exiting or boring ?
J Andre you must not be very good at your job...just kidding. Dude move into a new industry
At that point why not just join the military officers make 55k plus home expenses and bonus pay if you are working in finance or engineering. You also get a job that is meaningful and fulfilling. You will also get leadership experience.
I think what he is saying is true. Ive seen for myself what financial analysts get. I have spoken to one who has about 6 or 7 years in the industry and surprised he still has to plan hard and compromise on a few things.
I’ve always regretted not selling my soul to the financial industry 17 years ago. Not anymore 😂 I earn way less (And I live in central London!) but I’m not in a flashy industry and do not need expensive things to keep up with the Jones > and I have enjoyed my career in the past 17 years with good work life balance.
Thank for this video!
What you do btw? XD
Ya much better just figuring out how to trade on your own. No reason at all one should be working on the markets 70 hours a week that’s how you burn out lmao
50K after tax, national insurance and student loan is 35.3 K divided by 12= £2900 - 2900 minus 800(single bedroom in central London) minus 100 (monthly transport) minus 800 (food and clothes) equals = 1200 savings per month..
But what are you saving for? Assuming you never spend a bean of that remaining £1200 and live like a monk, that is £14.4k per year.
That's absolutely measly considering the hours you work. It is most definitely NOT enough for the likes of a house deposit and you are just treading water.
Saving £1200 a month in London as a young person is just not realistic. You will want to spend that money, go out and do things, take trips etc.
So what's the end game here? What he just referred to isn't the way to go so what should we do?
Meditate in the woods.
Work at McDonalds instead
The moral of he story that I see here is the following: if you are a highly intelligent and clever guy that dedicates his life to the trading profession for life, it is better to raise some basic capital that would let you make consistent money and then trade on your own living a peaceful life somewhere in countryside far away from noisy & expensive city
Stop making the rich richer and start your own business!
gee you have a point
In all honesty, leave the salary, a job in trading is 100 times more intellectually stimulating and interesting than some bs desk job. Instead of asking people how their day was in morning meetings and trying to take 2 weeks to fix an issue just to have your manager say it’s useless, a trader gains knowledge of how the world really works which to be honest is priceless. And of course it also teaches you risk taking etc which would be vital if one wants to grow money in their personal lives.
That face looks like he lives in central London
No he lives in Singapore
Wow. And there was I, jealous of the haves and me being the have not. All I can do is thank this gentleman for explaining the miserable life of the ' wannabe '.
I like Anton Kriel but he is so unbelievably out of touch with anything even close to reality if he thinks that £8.3k pcm post-tax is even remotely closely akin to living a "basic life", central London or otherwise, & that's not even taking the £50k post-tax bonus into account! He needs to spend a bit more time with his family & school friends in Liverpool to regain some perspective.
Living in central London is absolutely miles more expensive than Liverpool. Have you seen central London rents and the cost of living? It all goes in and nearly all comes right back out again. He's a realist but also dispelling the myth that as soon as you get into investment banking you can live a rich lifestyle of massive bonuses and luxury.
His point was if you want to live like a "banker" based on most people's perception, £8k a month is nowhere near enough. And he's right! You'll need a whole lot more to be living in a luxury serviced apartment in central London and drinking Veuve Clicquot whilst snorting lines of coke up some hooker's ass every night. After all that's what a lot of undergrads fantasise about working in the City.
A modern newley renovated 1 bed room apartment in central London with hardly any commute (max 5min), you can reckon between 3-5k pcm with fees included. That leaves you at 3-4k and then you still have to pay for anything extra, plus food etc. so you maybe still have 1.5k over, if you want to actually join in going for lunch and dinner with colleagues. So now you have "lived" and worked 70+ h a week with hardly anything to spare in an old apartment maybe even shared flat for 8 years and can finally move into a 1 bedroom (!!) apartment and after 10 more years if you save every penny you may have 700k ish in you bank acc. You havent got a nice car, you dont have any hobbies, no free time, no family, no large apartment and the barest minium of everything else. Yes that seems desirable.
That´s why the best choice is to apply for investment banks in Madrid, more salary and less expensive life
8.3k is after 6-8 years and only a small portion ever get to that level.