Since I've read soooo many YA books I grew up HATING the word "chosen" because uuuuusually the "chosen" character is just stupid and wouldn´t survive a day in the real world yet he/she manage to save a magic world without any basic knowledge or power !!???
One of the things I'm doing in my fantasy story is that while there is a "Chosen One," they're not predestined or anything like that. They're chosen because of something they do out of their own free will, not because of their birth.
@@kbear6797 it is a dystopia, is a seemingly perfect happy world that is cut from the outside and they quite literally pay for clean air and the thing that could solve the problem is just trees that guy doesn't want just because he will lose money and power
Complicated by your social situations and government, or socialism, once you've destroyed them you can date. Like my parents, not a metaphor destroy system.
How else should the otherwise useless Teenage MC point out this teeny tiny detail he justed picked up somewhere, which somehow is able to throw over the fiendish masquerades, the evil government is hiding behind.
This is why I have logical explanations for all of the magic etc in my dystopian story, so it’s not just like “special chosen teenager now has superpowers and saves the day”. I also made them young adults as teenagers saving the day is quite illogical
Dorcas Winter well I mean... the Victorian era was a time when hospitals in the west were beginning to experiment with the “rationalization” of society which included the medical field. Physicians and hospitals began finding ways to make hospitals more sanitary and efficient including the use of new sterilising agents to prevent infections after surgery. The methods of those times were far from the refined procedures of today but they were an attempt to remove themselves from the more superstitious or philosophical side of medicine such as humoural theory and bloodletting that were still around during this era.
Hey now, Victorian era hospitals actually had a pretty decent number of patients survive - especially if we're comparing them to their predecessors. I mean, Victorian era was when people started to actually survive appendectomies sometimes. Before that you generally just died, even if they did try to save you with surgery - same with C-sections and a lot of other surgical procedures. Not to mention the notable medical case of Phineas Gage occurred in this era, and he managed not to die somehow. (Seriously, the fact that this guy survived what he did prior to the invention and widespread use of effective antibiotics is a miracle all on its own...)
@@addison-2557 Not really, and the ones it does have it does well for the most part. For number one, Katniss is only a teenager yes, but we don't see her really saving society. She becomes more a figurehead more than anything. It's president Coin, the rest of district 13 and the conspirators who do most of the legwork, she just does a few flashy things and then has her dramatic moment at the end. For number two,the districts are not really factions so much as a caste system, and not even that so much as serfdom. You're born where you're born and not allowed to leave. For number four, I feel there were enough light-hearted or triumphant moments for it to avoid that. I don't remember enough to say if number 5 applies here. Was she described as plain? Even then, she actually has some things going for her outside of her appearance that could cause Gale and Peeta to fall for her. But yeah, this one is probably the least forgivable. For number six, the government is in power because they are a ruthless administration and they have all the weapons. The peace-keepers might be brainwashed, but they are loyal to the government. If I recall correctly, the second district was actually the hardest to take both because it had the Nut and also because so many of its citizens were actually loyal to the capital. It's much the same way the white minority stayed in power in South Africa for so long. For number eight, Katniss was established as a skilled hunter long before she entered the games. Number nine might not have an excuse, at least not in the movies, but I don't remember enough details from the book to say whether that kind of dirtiness was described. And all the other numbers I don't think apply at all.
If you think about the aptitude test, all the people who really like cheese would end up in Amity. They don't find out about the dog until after they choose the cheese. What if they were just hungry? What if they picked up the knife to cut off a chunk of cheese, and ended up in Dauntless? Now that would be a interesting story.
That was the point though? It was literally about people, specifically teens, identifying themselves through specific categories or traits, and how this is absolutely reductionist to the sense of being an individual. Sure the story was simple, but if you're gonna make fun of something, maybe don't ridicule the core thesis of the story as if it's some random mistake in writing.
I wish someone would take the Chosen One trope and have the role go to the Character's Head instantly. Imagine the Female MC looking forward to all the Hot Guys fighting for her, abusing her status as the Chosen One, and generally acting as the worse Chosen One ever.
I've read a bunch of Chinese novels where the reader of a novel (starring a chosen one) gets sucked into the novel's world and ends up usurping the chosen one because he/she is usually a dumbass twat who cant do much without the plot holes protecting them. I feel so satisfied when i see them get wrecked by the foreign character.
Finnick Odair (from the Hunger Games) is the only guy I can think of who suffered from sexual assault. We really do need more sexual assault of men represented in fiction. Great video btw! I love dystopian, but so many of these were spot on.
That's a modern idea. Atwood (and the others mentioned in reply) wrote back when dystopian fiction hadn't been grabbed by writers who think teenagers are idiots.
"You're telling me that this evil government created a society just so that no-one can have running water" I mean, not a government but... Nestle..... wait, does this mean we are living in a really bad dystopian book?
My WIP is a Dystopian, and my heart fell into my stomach when I saw the title of this video. Thankfully, though, I don't think I have any of these tropes.😅
I'd say don't worry too much about it :) It's really about execution; make the story believable. As long as the story doesn't imply _A Wizard did it!_ or _Because technology_ I think you'll for the most part be good.
Same! In my opinion all the tropes are okay... As long as these have an actual logic explanation. I honestly don't notice bad writing... Unless it's hideous. It's execution. You need to know how to handle it so it's logical... You know?
yeah but people are brainwashed into loving the society and those who are privileged at least present themselves as enjoying the society, both of which are more realistic
"Oh. Another person died. I am not remotely invested or surprised at all." I've run into this problem outside of dystopian fiction. A lot of fans of a certain series have stopped caring about it, because there are too many deaths in it and I agree.
@Corvus Morve It's not even realism. If people died at the rate they do in some of these books, societies couldn't keep stable populations. But I agree. A lot of times having characters die makes me lose interest, because while it's shocking and dramatic, and erases all the possible storylines and developments that character could have had.
Don't forget the obligatory forbidden fence, wall, chasim and or border. With supposedly scary Sh!t on the other side ,that you won't see till the final book of the series. (if at all)
Hunger Games did that, except the "scary shit" was just some normal animals, and they spelled that out since the very beginning. Also, they gave a pretty good justification for the fence being there.
@@gabzz72 The fact that they can kill you is a very strong element to stay in power. The concept of people raising in arms to dethrone a tyranny is very naive and childish if you don't have weapons and training like them.
Governments that rule through absolute terror and nothing else tend not to last long. Revolutionary France during the Great Terror? 5 years. Nazi Germany? 12 years. Soviet Union? 74 years. Aztec Empire? 93 years. Not exactly a great track record. And it usually doesn't end well for the dictator who rules like this either. Saddam Hussein? Executed by the USA. Muammar Gaddafi? Killed by his own people. Maximillien Robespierre? Executed by his own former comrades. Joseph Stalin? Technically natural causes, but he died of a stroke because he sent all of his doctors to the Gulag, so it's still ironic. Ruling through terror is not a recipe for successful nation building.
And she has to decide between two of them because the writer can't generate conflict or emotional stakes from the actual story about living in a dystopia.
@@julietfischer5056 It also doesn't help that in real life it's extremely rare for two guys to compete for the same girl. It's pure author wish fullfillment and everyone knows it.
@@ManiaMac1613 I disagree that the phenomenon is rare (witnessed and experienced it multiple times), but I'll grant that two+ ZOMG OUTRAGEOUSLY HUNKY MUSCLE STUDS pursuing a supposedly plain person at the same time is a little more atypical; it's usually more likely people who are similar in attractiveness level to the person being pursued or a mixed range of suitors.
@@ZethsCraftDesk In my personal experience it's much more common for girls to fight over the same dude, I've witnessed that more times than I care to count, but it's fairly uncommon in YA, and even in the cases where it does happen it's resolved fairly quickly, because while we're still talking about character tropes, male YA protagonists tend to be a lot more decisive than female YA protagonists. If you read enough YA it becomes really hard to ignore these tendencies, and it's one of (many) reasons I stopped reading YA a long, long time ago.
@@ManiaMac1613 - If they are competing, it's because she has something they both want, such as wealth or a title. Or, in our modern era, they want her attention.
I'm gonna do my book: #1 ☹️ Yep, it's four teenagers #2 😐 Nope! They all live in a regular-ish town. #3 😐 I guess there isn't a lot of world-building. It's meant to seem close to the world we live in now with one different #4 😐 Depends on the character and what species they are. One protagonist is always terrified and the other is comic relief #5 🙂 My protag cannot go five minutes without making an aro joke #6 😐 They don't like the system, but nobody thinks too much about it. A plot twist is the ones who complain get brainwashed to be docile #7 🙂 Nope. #8 🙂 Nope. The character who can fight well is trained and practices a few times casually. The Smart Guy stays physically weak all the way through #9 😐 Again, it depends on the character #10 ☹️ I mean, they're called zombies, but they're hyper-intelligent, don't eat flesh and aren't always dead. It's more a nickname. But they're still called zombies more than once
@Zabeer Farid In-universe it's more of a slang term, but mainly it's because if they get shot their bodies keep working until they fall to bits. Since they don't feel pain, they keep talking and acting the same as before
I’m gonna do my book! - #1 - Four teenagers, (eh). #2 - They live in dorms, so it’s divided by age… #3 - I really like long descriptions, (Oops). #4 - They’re cursed, they have dollar store superpowers, (one can rotate grass, wow!) They have what’s called, ‘Gray magic,’ but they make the best out of it. #5 - My characters are good looking, but they aren’t little Mrs. Aphrodite, they train at school, so they’re muscular. #6 - I have a secret agency in my book, it’s been passed down, but only now have they been noticing it while they expand the garden. It lets people relive their best years and then kills them. #7 - No, no and no, I don’t really write romance. #8 - My MC’s have trained at a private school, so nope. #9 - The school is high funded, and modern. A lot of donators pay for the less fortunate. #10 - They’re not really zombies, I guess they aren’t in touch with reality, but they still function like a normal human.
11# Government system x-ray When a character that has lived their entire life in a world that is run by a dictatorship can tell that democracy would be better. Even though canonically no one could have told them. Why do they know this? Pft reasons. It would have been great if they had a reason for seing the faults in the world. I'm not saying that the characters can't make remarks about the world they live in, I'm just saying they don't have our perspective. They won't know exactly how a democratic system should work since they have never experienced or even heard of it.
Well, is the entire world engulfed in this system of just a specific country/region/planet, for example? Because realistically, no matter how perfectly controlled the government may think the public is, there is no way media and tales from the outside world don't leak in. Some people will see/hear about the other forms of life and probably even add some embellishments to the stories and eventually, someone might think what they have heard about the other systems may be much better than what they themselves have.
@@sleepysera Yes, I have no problem with that. I have a problem with that most of them seem to get the knowledge from nowhere just because they're a special protagonist snowflake
True. Not only in dystopian settings, but even worse in historical fiction or medieval fantasy you often encounter the bad trope that the protagonist has practically modern day western world 21st century views when it comes to moral standards and human rights. They are all for democracy, freedom rights, female equality, racial equality, freedom of religion etc. even in settings where the vast majority (either by default setting of the author's worldbuilding or by historical fact) does not share or not even know of such views. If the protgonist grew up in a society where such views are outright alien, an explanation is due from where he/she got those ideas and how he/she is so confident that he's right and everyone else is wrong.
THANK YOU!!! I’m so sick of hearing sexual assault only happening to women to a point I’ve heard people claim it can’t happen to a guy. Now I personally don’t like it in stories at all (unless it’s written really well and is the focus of the story), but if your going to have it, can we at least have sometimes where it happens to a guy? It does not just happen to women and shouldn’t be treated as such. Sorry, it just erks me so much to never see it happen and on occasion have it told to me that it doesn’t happen to a guy. Also I’m so glad to see that I’m not the only one who gets annoyed by most of these tropes in distopian stories...
Megamanlanprime Would you mind it so much if I used it to further the story, left a lot to imagination (I personally don’t like writing that stuff), and used the character for better things later on? Asking for general feedback
@Jieming Gan Check out "A Boy and his Dog". Main charater is taken underground, and told he will be helping impregnate the under dweller women. He is at happy, but instead, well, think milking machine
Jieming Gan it could be as simple as groping. If you want it to show some type of back story, you could show the guy getting groped heavily (This is a weird thing to say) while he doesn’t really respond or he just lets it happen and doesn’t want to talk about it (he’s clearly unhappy and it’s clearly non consensual). It could hint that something has happened before in his past and you could dive into his emotions later as he develops into a stronger character. If you want it to be a one-off thing, then you could do a close-call or a situation where he reacts to being touched on his willy or something (again, so very weird to say), and it leads to him hitting some guy or lady and you can take it from there. Maybe he is charged with assault or the person he hits is somehow involved with another character and there is a fight. These are a few ideas that hopefully made sense 😬
Just to add on to my already long comment. If you wanted to do it in a dystopian type thing. Maybe the guy was told to never fight back so he lets people grope him (I hate myself for saying ‘grope’ so much) because he has no other option. Like people take advantage of him because he cannot fight back without getting in trouble or some serious shit happened to him as a child and he has some type of mental block that doesn’t allow him to fight back, he just freezes out of terror. In the other situation, well it really could happen in most genres. Maybe he fought back and hit his best friend’s girlfriend or the governor’s wife or the antagonist’s friend.
@@firstnamelastname6016 Check out Terry Crews. He was at one party where his crotch was rubbed by a guy, and had to do nothing. If he had done anything to tell the guy to back off, he would have been labeled as violent
The worst part about this crap is that it sells... I rarely find fiction that deviates from these tropes and when I do, they usually have few sales. I would much rather write something interesting than writing to these markets, but the money isn't there to really hit the mark. :(
it's hard for something to sell when many publishers consider it 'too risky' to actually try selling it in the firstplace. It's not that there aren't plentiful modern masterpieces, it's just that in certain genres publishers will actively shoot down the not-clones, despite other genres like fantasy sci-fi flourishing easily with massive profits because of new and subversive works. Unfortunately like the movie and tv industry, publishing agents and editors are also affected by truisms rather than the reality of their own platform
Same about fantasy. That's why it's considered a low genre - because it is easier to print the same crap over and over again than to encourage truly talented and brave writers
Even if I make no money, I’d rather be a deviant and poor than a sellout and rich. Hmm... it’s almost as if the uniformity of modern dystopian novels ironically mirror the same conformity they claim to despise...
It occurs to me that most of these YA dystopian novels are simply extensions of high school. Seemingly arbitrary divisions, biggest difficulty facing the protagonist is which boy to choose, system is always evil but incompetent. Yep, sounds like the whole world is now high school. Hmm, satirical YA dystopian novel where high school literally never ends... I might be onto something.
Pure escapism for adults. Divisions become real; system is evil, incompetent and hates you; the biggest difficulty facing you is having time to meet anyone - neither you nor anyone else has time since everybody is perpetually at work and all the unemployed are hanging indoors playing videogames. YA dystopia looks real idyllic suddenly.
The point about fighting made me think about ‘The Matrix’ and Neo’s “I know Kung fu!” after it’s been downloaded! That was a cool way to do it. But I thought it was also clever in the final film when you saw Neo and Trinity fighting in the real world and their lack of physical strength and skill. It all worked so well and felt authentic.
Does anyone want to hear my book idea? No? Well I'll say it anyway. It's called "I wish my blade were sharper" and it's about an "Elegant" that struck down a powerful man for reasons unknown but failed to take his life. Her class, her power and her everything was taken and she was turned into a "Dusty" and from this new perspective sees that her own family is in trouble due to the upcoming rebellion so she joins the rebels to destroy them from the inside but finds that the first incident left her unable to take another's life. Now she must try to out manoeuvre geniuses while trying to find out what started the rebellion in the first place.
Ninga Black Star33 - Hm. If you don't mind sharing, is there a strict class system in this world, and are there classes between the "Elegant" and "Dusty"? Are they separated by money, race, bloodline, magic, species, or something else? Sounds like a fun idea (especially joining a rebellion to destroy it from the inside). Lol. My character has a similar backstory of being part of an upper class and losing everything, except instead of joining the rebels or fighting against them, they're using the rebels to further their goals and don't care about the actual outcome of the rebellion or the impact they have on the rebels or those they rebel against. They just know they can exploit the needs of the desperate and disadvantaged rebels to get what they want. What are the rebels fighting for (in your story)? Is it an equal rights or independence movement, or something else? Of course, you don't have to answer anything (I'm awkward about sharing too much and feel uncomfortable sometimes, so I wouldn't mind, whatever your reason), but I'd love to learn about it.
@@mariesummers. Dustys are the lowest class, lower than commoners. After that there are smokies, drags, watchers, counters, the salties, the tall and the prouds. An Elegant is a Proud with high skills. Above them is the 9circle, the people who make most of the decisions. The classes are separated by wealth and honour. The rebels are fighting for equality and justice because they aren't treated like humans. This is because Dustys are often people who failed their assigned job. The rebels aren't only made up of Dustys though. Some are people who wanted to follow their passion but were forced to do something else. Thanks for asking!
@@ningablackstar3391 - Sounds cool. Is it a magic world or is it more of a normal one? Good luck on writing, by the way, and with publishing, if you plan on doing that.
Ah yes, the most effective way of writing a strong, compelling female character; give her absolutely zero agency for the entire story and have the supporting cast do all the heavy lifting for her.
hey, Jenna. my mom lost her battle with cancer around a week and a half ago. it's been rough, and I'm feeling more alone in the world than I ever have. so I've been marathoning your vids to help distract me. hope you're well, regards to Cliff, and thanks for the new vid 🖤
"...but boy do they wear alot of cargo pants." Me: *looks away while eating pretzels and thinking about my MC whose whole wardrobe is cargo pants and tshirts*
Can you do a video on writing a book on religious topics? Advice on that would be really helpful. Edit: I mean writing angels,demons,and so on and so fourth Edit 2: Wow! Thank you all for the feedback! I didn’t expect this to blow up so quick! ☺️😭
Very difficult topic if you actually want to play around with existing religions. Much potential to both emberass yourself and piss people off (the latter will probably happen no matter how well you do your job, because someone's always going to be offended). I'd say if you want to write urban fantasy with cool superpowered fantasy creatures of light and darkness fighting a shadow war among the humans or something like that, then best keep away from traditional Christianity, Islam etc. and make it a parallel universe with a religion of your own design around it. But if you insist on having e.g. catholic priests trying to drive away demons or team up with angels to hunt down the prophecized antichrist or something like that, then first step is: Do your research thoroughly. You'll probably need to change some things, because real exorcism rites are rather bland and the church isn't actually used to encountering demons in the flesh. But before you start adapting, you need to know how it works in reality. Nothing is both more ridiculous and potentially infuriating for a religious reader than reading about an angel or a priest character that is supposedly Christian preaching nonsense and spreading fortune cookie wisdom that exposes that the author has clearly only a very vague idea what that religion is about and what a genuine religious person would say or do in a given situation.
I’d say same as the other guy that replied, but I’d say stay away from demons/angels that appear in religious work unless the story is about those entities (ex. I wouldn’t add a subplot where the MC has to kill Beelzebub for whatever reason in a story where all the other demons they kill are explicitly unnamed, but something like Supernatural could do something like that because it also pulls a lot of other stuff from said works) And if you do choose to feature known demons, do your research. It will be hard because so many demons and angels have contradicting stories, only one story or none at all, but even a mid tier knowledge would be good Also- figure out what kind of demons you want. I’ve only really seen two kinds- Physical demons and Possession Demons. Physical Demons (think Good Omens ) have a constant form, and never change it. You can generally kill a physical demon with any kind of weapon. Their no big on Possessions either because they can’t or it’s just east to kill people with claws. Possession Demons (Supernatural) have no kind of form. They can only function when possessing someone, so you can’t really kill them, just exorcise them or kill the host. Most can’t really be killed. That’s all I got though. Hope it helped
Ocean Blue Then you’re overlooking it. There’s more to work with when you have an entire pantheon of gods and shit, Christianity doesn’t have that to the scale of Greek, Egyptian and Norse mythologies. Why have one god, one devil, and a shit ton of demons, a handful of angels when you can have everything; a multitude of gods and monsters with enough lore to give you vertigo
Ocean Blue There was recently some backlash from the Hindu community when a video game character resembled one of the Hindu gods. There me have been a ton of Christian themed Angels vs Demons urban/contemporary fantasy. If you throw vampires into the mix then that dramatically increases those numbers.
Freckles are cute. Braces don't make you ugly. Acne is temporary. Don't fixate on those little things, work on your personality to make people like you.
@@reasyrandom uh thanks for the advice my dood but I was referencing how every YA writer gives their character freckles. I don't mind freckles whatsoever
Veronica Roth did use factions but she devided the population with actual logic.Like Erudite-the smart,Dauntless-the brave,Candor-the honest etc and it made sense.
I’m writing a dystopia which disguises itself to look like a utopia. Plus, the main character is part of the “better” and richer part of society but runs away from that life after finding out what’s really going on and helps out the rebels. I’ve never really seen that done before and I wanted to give it a go.
_"Unless it's relevant to the story, cut it"_ This might be the best all-round writing advice. Apply this to every aspect of your book and you'll be fine.
Yeah I’m listening to your story The Savior’s Champion on audible, and I got to say, you took my creative writing teachers words “you (the writers) need to be sadistic” I was like DANG!!
I like some of the old dystopians...and then it became a Ya trash heap of love triangles and ridiculous premises for setting/plot. I'd also like to add that most zombie novels fall under apocalypse/post apocalypse which tend to deal with the collapse of society or post collapse rather than a weird society that is built around a philosophical tweak which is the hallmark of dystopians. I have yet to read a dystopian zombie novel but id really like some names for them if anyone knows a good one. It really seems like an incompatible relationship zombie/dystopia.
Where is most male rape occuring? I was under the impression it was in prison. Portraying male rape only makes since if they're aren't any ladies to rape.
@@frankmiller4550 Male rape happens outside of prison and is not limited to male-on-male. However, this is not the best topic to discuss in the TH-cam comments section. There are better sites on the 'net who can cover this topic better so I recommend poking around for some of those.
I'm personally writing a zombie story and am guilty of it myself but I agree there overdone but not in the way that "There too many zombie books In general". it's really more that they always have the same story and are repetitive. I just hope I can have something less repetitive.
Unwashed Mass: "How'd you learn to fight so good?" MC: "We forgot to pay our taxes, so the gov. used technomagic to overrun our village with Stumblers."
And yet it's still a good read. Amusingly, I'm like Four, in that no matter what clothes I put on in the morning, they magically morph into jeans and T-shirt by smoko time.
7:23 Come to any country in Africa. We have corruption, and an undying disdain for the government :) Trust me, we tried a coup d'état. Suffice to say it only made things worse.
kbear it’s when a group of people (in our case, most of the population) forcefully try to overthrow a government. It worked, the president left but was replaced by someone just as bad, now the country is a mess.
Ikr, only a few democracies can boast that most of their citizens approve of their government. Edit: In the History of humanity, not just the 21st century
have you read flawed by cecelia ahern? it seems like it fits under the first trope you mentioned, but it actually is done in a way that makes it a believable story. it's a really good dystopian book that i'd definitely reccomend, even though it is a little predictable at first. it's really underappreciated as a book, and should definitely be given more credit and attention.i'm reading the sequel, perfect, right now, and it's also really good. i'd like to hear your opinion on the book! (sorry for my bad spelling. english is not my fist language
Me: *writing Jenna:*uploads Me: Not today, it's JENNA TIME! No, but really, your videos are the best part of my week. Tips on writing physical/emotional pain?
Honestly my favourite "dystopian" story i had ever read/watched is definitely "The Lobster". Because it seems so normal at first. But then you get to know the world and realize that it's probably one of the worst dystopian worlds ever.
#2, nonsensical factionalism, has always annoyed me since "Divergent". Yes, we as people have a bad habit of mentally reducing others to singular characteristics, but organizing an all-consuming, rigid social structure in that fashion just seems illogical to me. Primarily because personality is too complex to reduce to "Candor" or "Parkcore" or whatever. For me, the "Hunger Games" district system made more sense because it was about regional economic inequality, which is really an exaggerated version of reality. Also, "Harry Potter" gets away with it because their Houses are limited to low-stakes school competitions and because the nature of the personalities of the Houses is amorphous. Like, it's hard to fully explain each House individually, but we can totally "sort" our friends when we think about it for 5 seconds.
They're the best ones because you can understand why society isn't screaming against the system. Even if your mc feels like something is not right they assume everyone else is satisfied.
I have an idea for a book!(yes I know ideas are a dime a dozen), what if we had a king who murdered his way to the throne but intended to rule nobly, and had the skills to do so, but because he stole the kingship (from a mediocre king) the fates(vague supernatural force) have put forth a chosen one of royal blood to dethrone him, and he must use both his cunning bombast to stave him off because despite the chosen one's inexperience and lack of resources he manages to get constant lucky breaks, and succeed, because the narrative of fate will bend both logic and probability to restore what it sees proper ruler of the kingdom.
I find it amazing how many of these sound like somebody wanted to copy The Hunger Games without bothering to understand why the tropes actually work in those books.
I loved your point on sexual assault, I understand why people will skip over it but I think it is very well said! Personally, I don’t write sexual assault or rape in my WIPs because I don’t think I’d be skilled enough to do it justice (meaning I fear I’d write something that victims would find offensive, not glorifying the assault)
I was motivated to start a dystopian fanfic after watching this so thank you, also I'm going to try and avoid most of the issues talked about here. Besides the real question is will I finish it ever.
Jenna’s point at 9:25 made me rethink the dystopian portion of my novel. Then I re-rethought it and changed nothing. I have reasons for the rundown cities and absurd crime rates, I swear.
What I hate the most in zombie stories: whenever it goes on about the possibility of finding a cure and almost the whole story or books keep giving you false hope with a big quest they go on to try to find it. But then then there is no cure, and the "solution" to saving humanity just ends up being a handful of "special" immune individuals all living together in an isolated place away from the rest of the world so that they can carry on the human race there while the rest of the survivors are just left to die out and become zombies. I hate that SO much and I just want to see something for once where they can cure people and save everything!
funny and witty, I started pointlessly looking at this as entertainment only, but I am very inspired and motivated to pursue my creative streak little by little, thank you.
Yeah, as a Sci-fi, Fantasy, and Dystopian writer, my characters have some sad pasts. I also have a couple of books about evil governments, but not EVERYONE hates them
I always felt Jin-roh: The Wolf Brigade was one of the best dystopian movies I have ever watched. If only because of how it goes out of its way to humanize the oppressors and show what day to day life is for them. No one gets overthrown by a group of rebels. Hell, the morality of the "Rebels" is sometimes very unclear. And while some of the Kerberos forces really ARE evil, oppressive stormtroopers, many of them are just strung out average joes, stuffed into scary looking armor and just doing the job they were told to do. And that job is usually some variation of "trying desperately to prevent japanese civilization from completely imploding for just one more day." Isn't there a remake in the works? I would love to see it.
@@EvilSandwich Yes. I recommend. Ends different than the japanese version, less cynically... not as good an ending if you ask me, but the overall flick is worth it. On Netflix.
There used to be a pattern to dystopian fiction. Most of the people accept the system in the dystopian society. It's all they have ever known, but the protagonist has an eye opener and he or she starts questioning things. However, unlike superhero and other fantasy genres, the hero's spirit is usually crushed by the end of the novel. The eset dystopian novel for me is the granddaddy of them all-1984.
I write a dystopian fanfic just for fun these days, and I have a 1 paragraph-long rape scene, male on male, that I tried my best to make repulsive and sad... At the beginning of your video, I was afraid I'd be called out on that, but listening to your point makes me realise I'm not the worst out there.
I love the giver. Not only does that book have reasons for making society the way that it is it also asks some very thought provoking questions about the imperfect world. I got genuine chills when the mc asks what if we gave people choice. Like what if they could choose the colour of their stuffed animal at birth. It wouldn’t effect much. But what if people had more choice. What if they could choose who they could marry, or what job they wanted. But how would that work? What if they chose wrong?
Finnick from The Hunger Games is a great example of male sexual assault! Him and Haymitch are both confirmed to be victims, and Gloss was implied to have dealt with it as well. In terms of sexual assault in dystopian novels, THG is the very best representation i’ve seen of showing trauma affecting characters (especially men) while not fetishizing or overexplaining it.
I've been really hooked on your channel recently. These videos are really informative. I was wondering have you made a video about how to finish a novel well? Like, what is the best way to end the story without it sounding too awkward or cliche. What kind of scene would be good? I'm finishing my novel and while I know what the last chapter will have in it, I have no idea what would be a good way to actually wrap it all up.
It made me so proud that I've missed every single worst troupe and hit on almost all of the best ones in your Dystopian videos. Like, "Yes, the bar was so low, and without even trying I passed it!"
the only one I got was the teen one cuz my characters are in their late teens 💀 the series is gonna span several years tho so I guess they don’t save the world till later
"Everybody hates the government. How the hell is the government in power then?" ... I... I can give you like three different examples of how that happens. But also - the number one thing to remember about any dystopian fiction where it suggests everyone hates the government is that it's going to be written from the perspective of those who hate the government and whatever close group of people they surround themselves with that agree -- even when the writer is trying write from third person. It's really easy to become convinced that your preferred politics are actually well received and near universal when you either cut everyone out of your life who disagrees with you - or you and those people come to a mutual decision to not discuss these topics with each other because you value your over-all relationship above the damage this one aspect if focused on could cause.
Here’s another trope: It’s always set in ‘Murica. Let’s be real here, if there was some dystopian war or something, America would probably be the first place to go. Occasionally we get one in either Asia or the UK, which is better to say the least, though very rare. Set it in like Kenya or something, that would be unique.
As a fantasy writer myself, I rarely use "because of magic." I feel like even in a fantasy setting it's important to show your character struggling to learn how to fight or to use their powers. This is super prevalent in a novel I'm writing right now. There is a school for training magical powers that the characters were born with (it's the magical equivalent of English class for native speakers, somewhat useless but still important enough to keep around) and a good chunk of the story watching a character improve at sword fighting. I've learned over my writing journey that if characters don't work hard they aren't relatable. If they aren't jerks for a good reason at one point, that can also make them less relatable. Using magic as an excuse to get out of a little extra storytelling really bugs me. A wonderful example of a book that doesn't entirely cut corners is The Door Within. It's in a trilogy and the next two books are just as good as the first.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Since I've read soooo many YA books I grew up HATING the word "chosen" because uuuuusually the "chosen" character is just stupid and wouldn´t survive a day in the real world yet he/she manage to save a magic world without any basic knowledge or power !!???
Those books are just bad.
"A magic word"
@@m_e_nere thanks for pointing that out ^^
Good point. It's usually down to bad writing...
One of the things I'm doing in my fantasy story is that while there is a "Chosen One," they're not predestined or anything like that. They're chosen because of something they do out of their own free will, not because of their birth.
The Lorax is an amazing dystopian, change my mind
It's not a dystopian
@@kbear6797 it is a dystopia, is a seemingly perfect happy world that is cut from the outside and they quite literally pay for clean air and the thing that could solve the problem is just trees that guy doesn't want just because he will lose money and power
too much use of pastels, and the sun is out and in full color.
It's not dystopian, it's too real
I can't change your mind. It is the best dystopian.
I mean, knocking over a corrupt gov is easy, but boyfriends....truly a difficult situation
As a teenage female I totally agree with this statement
me when my alien bf cheats on me after the area 51 raid
Thats basically hunger games well one and two are what hunger games is.
Complicated by your social situations and government, or socialism, once you've destroyed them you can date. Like my parents, not a metaphor destroy system.
I mean, it’s the difference between a clearly evil group that you know must fall and dun dun DUN!!!!
Social interaction.
But Jennnna, know the exact square footage of every closet is the key to stopping big bad government and the Zombie horde
Haha I'd definitely read Dystopian novel XD
Nice.
FUCK LMAO
Haha 😆 omg
How else should the otherwise useless Teenage MC point out this teeny tiny detail he justed picked up somewhere, which somehow is able to throw over the fiendish masquerades, the evil government is hiding behind.
Dystopian movies/books are like modern Hollywood horror movies - they are the places were logic goes to die (like a Victorian era hospital)
Nice.
This is why I have logical explanations for all of the magic etc in my dystopian story, so it’s not just like “special chosen teenager now has superpowers and saves the day”.
I also made them young adults as teenagers saving the day is quite illogical
Dorcas Winter well I mean... the Victorian era was a time when hospitals in the west were beginning to experiment with the “rationalization” of society which included the medical field. Physicians and hospitals began finding ways to make hospitals more sanitary and efficient including the use of new sterilising agents to prevent infections after surgery. The methods of those times were far from the refined procedures of today but they were an attempt to remove themselves from the more superstitious or philosophical side of medicine such as humoural theory and bloodletting that were still around during this era.
Hey now, Victorian era hospitals actually had a pretty decent number of patients survive - especially if we're comparing them to their predecessors. I mean, Victorian era was when people started to actually survive appendectomies sometimes. Before that you generally just died, even if they did try to save you with surgery - same with C-sections and a lot of other surgical procedures. Not to mention the notable medical case of Phineas Gage occurred in this era, and he managed not to die somehow. (Seriously, the fact that this guy survived what he did prior to the invention and widespread use of effective antibiotics is a miracle all on its own...)
Jenna: Factions
Me: *choking on my drink*
Veronica Roth: *sneezing somewhere*
This was exactly what I thought. I like Veronica Roth, but those books kind of fell flat for me.
@@addison-2557 Not really, and the ones it does have it does well for the most part.
For number one, Katniss is only a teenager yes, but we don't see her really saving society. She becomes more a figurehead more than anything. It's president Coin, the rest of district 13 and the conspirators who do most of the legwork, she just does a few flashy things and then has her dramatic moment at the end.
For number two,the districts are not really factions so much as a caste system, and not even that so much as serfdom. You're born where you're born and not allowed to leave.
For number four, I feel there were enough light-hearted or triumphant moments for it to avoid that.
I don't remember enough to say if number 5 applies here. Was she described as plain? Even then, she actually has some things going for her outside of her appearance that could cause Gale and Peeta to fall for her. But yeah, this one is probably the least forgivable.
For number six, the government is in power because they are a ruthless administration and they have all the weapons. The peace-keepers might be brainwashed, but they are loyal to the government. If I recall correctly, the second district was actually the hardest to take both because it had the Nut and also because so many of its citizens were actually loyal to the capital. It's much the same way the white minority stayed in power in South Africa for so long.
For number eight, Katniss was established as a skilled hunter long before she entered the games.
Number nine might not have an excuse, at least not in the movies, but I don't remember enough details from the book to say whether that kind of dirtiness was described.
And all the other numbers I don't think apply at all.
@@addison-2557 a better example would be the Divergent series.
If you think about the aptitude test, all the people who really like cheese would end up in Amity. They don't find out about the dog until after they choose the cheese. What if they were just hungry? What if they picked up the knife to cut off a chunk of cheese, and ended up in Dauntless? Now that would be a interesting story.
That was the point though? It was literally about people, specifically teens, identifying themselves through specific categories or traits, and how this is absolutely reductionist to the sense of being an individual. Sure the story was simple, but if you're gonna make fun of something, maybe don't ridicule the core thesis of the story as if it's some random mistake in writing.
I wish someone would take the Chosen One trope and have the role go to the Character's Head instantly.
Imagine the Female MC looking forward to all the Hot Guys fighting for her, abusing her status as the Chosen One, and generally acting as the worse Chosen One ever.
It has to have been done, if only as satire or parody.
@@julietfischer5056 Basically the KonoSuba treatment.
All I can think of is this:
Harry: - But I am the Chosen One
Hermione: *whacks him with a book*
@@owlnemo lmao yeah
I've read a bunch of Chinese novels where the reader of a novel (starring a chosen one) gets sucked into the novel's world and ends up usurping the chosen one because he/she is usually a dumbass twat who cant do much without the plot holes protecting them. I feel so satisfied when i see them get wrecked by the foreign character.
It isn’t a trope but the amount of times I’ve seen gray cloudy skies with birds(crows usually) flying by is funny
Bonus if it’s drizzling
Happens a lot in my WIP, not because it's dystopian, but because it's in San Francisco
Jayce Marvel I laughed more that I should have-
Look, that's just normal UK weather..don't judge.
I actually love days like this, and crows have a great deal of symbolism. I'm fine with this pseudo-trope.
But that's what it looks like outside right now...
Finnick Odair (from the Hunger Games) is the only guy I can think of who suffered from sexual assault. We really do need more sexual assault of men represented in fiction. Great video btw! I love dystopian, but so many of these were spot on.
Try Outlander 👌
Try Outlander
I almost forgot about his situation. He was basically forced to be a male prostitute for the nobility.
It was hinted that Joanna from the hunger games was also in Finnicks position.
DestinyHime yeah but Joanna is a woman. We are talking about male victims of sexual assault
"You mean dystopian books exist outside of YA?"
You might want to ask Margaret Atwood about that.
Doug Puthoff or George Orwell 😂
Laurie Bancroft. She can't ask him. He's dead.
Or Bradbury or Huxley... But yeah they're dead too lmao
Margret Atwood all day.
That's a modern idea. Atwood (and the others mentioned in reply) wrote back when dystopian fiction hadn't been grabbed by writers who think teenagers are idiots.
"You're telling me that this evil government created a society just so that no-one can have running water" I mean, not a government but... Nestle.....
wait, does this mean we are living in a really bad dystopian book?
People in third world countries certainly are.
thesukeneko No, we're just the prologue to one.
r/boringdystopia would like a word with you
Are you living on the American West Coast? If so, yes.
Damn.
My WIP is a Dystopian, and my heart fell into my stomach when I saw the title of this video. Thankfully, though, I don't think I have any of these tropes.😅
Erica Farner same!
Tropes are ok if you use them well. This video may make you feel better about it:
th-cam.com/video/tZ3FnbzNwss/w-d-xo.html
I'd say don't worry too much about it :)
It's really about execution; make the story believable.
As long as the story doesn't imply _A Wizard did it!_ or _Because technology_ I think you'll for the most part be good.
@@drske3379 (insert Gandalf approval)
Same! In my opinion all the tropes are okay... As long as these have an actual logic explanation. I honestly don't notice bad writing... Unless it's hideous. It's execution. You need to know how to handle it so it's logical... You know?
“Men suffer from sexual assault too”
THANK YOU
Everyone hates the government, how the hell are they in power then?
Laughs in Hong Kong
Hey, your people tried to replace LOMOSAI with the granny in his stomach. And then it turns out they're are in the same pocket.
*sighs in North Korean language*
@@boogiewoogie343 North Korea doesn't have supertech, just regular tech worse than historical 1984
@@teslashark I'm talking about the communism in the country
yeah but people are brainwashed into loving the society and those who are privileged at least present themselves as enjoying the society, both of which are more realistic
"Oh. Another person died. I am not remotely invested or surprised at all."
I've run into this problem outside of dystopian fiction. A lot of fans of a certain series have stopped caring about it, because there are too many deaths in it and I agree.
Why I stopped watching Game of Thrones.
@Corvus Morve It's not even realism. If people died at the rate they do in some of these books, societies couldn't keep stable populations. But I agree. A lot of times having characters die makes me lose interest, because while it's shocking and dramatic, and erases all the possible storylines and developments that character could have had.
Lerena Leigh Helena *cough* walking dead.
dystopian factions be like: often just fancier versions of high school cliques
Because the writer never got over eating alone at lunch.
😂😂😂😂😂
Wow that.....that actually makes a lot of sense. You're right. Why didn't I see it before?
....too damn accurate
Lmaoo
Don't forget the obligatory
forbidden fence, wall, chasim and or border.
With supposedly scary Sh!t on the other side ,that you won't see till the final book of the series.
(if at all)
One of the things I love about the Uglies books, they leave all the time.
Hunger Games did that, except the "scary shit" was just some normal animals, and they spelled that out since the very beginning.
Also, they gave a pretty good justification for the fence being there.
You can say divergent, it's okay
Lol even Game of Thrones/ASoIaF has this trope
@@ronjakempf3587 Does that count as dystopian? Ehh what the heck I'll allow it with how bad the last season went.😓
"Everyone hates the goverment. How are they still in power?"
Fear?
Alicia Marrow right? look at poor Hong Kong right now. Or North Korea, or Iran, or ya know like a lot of the governments in the world right now.
@@gabzz72 The fact that they can kill you is a very strong element to stay in power. The concept of people raising in arms to dethrone a tyranny is very naive and childish if you don't have weapons and training like them.
Food?
Because they took the first napkin
Governments that rule through absolute terror and nothing else tend not to last long. Revolutionary France during the Great Terror? 5 years. Nazi Germany? 12 years. Soviet Union? 74 years. Aztec Empire? 93 years. Not exactly a great track record. And it usually doesn't end well for the dictator who rules like this either. Saddam Hussein? Executed by the USA. Muammar Gaddafi? Killed by his own people. Maximillien Robespierre? Executed by his own former comrades. Joseph Stalin? Technically natural causes, but he died of a stroke because he sent all of his doctors to the Gulag, so it's still ironic.
Ruling through terror is not a recipe for successful nation building.
I would love to see Jenna and terrible writing advice do a collab. Like an angel and a demon on your shoulder giving you writing advice
That would be awesome.
Oh god i wanna see xD
Plebs: Infinity War is the most ambitious crossover in history!
Me, an intellectual: *THE LOVE TRIANGLE*
HAHAHA! That’d be awesome to have!
YES
But Jenna, my dystopian book has zombies that clean everything in massive Swiffer-wielding hordes.
Zombies that clean people? That would make a funny story. Like they're being controlled by a mysophobic sorcerer.
@@kimifw58 I'd read that! 😂
@@kimifw58 "Germs! Gerrrrrmmss!" *people scream as zombies shamble after them with bottles of hand sanitizer and lysol*
Fido
lmao
" And the boys in these books are tall, muscular and hunky and she's...still a dishrag. " - Jenna Moreci 2019 and I am dead 😂😂😂
And she has to decide between two of them because the writer can't generate conflict or emotional stakes from the actual story about living in a dystopia.
@@julietfischer5056 It also doesn't help that in real life it's extremely rare for two guys to compete for the same girl. It's pure author wish fullfillment and everyone knows it.
@@ManiaMac1613 I disagree that the phenomenon is rare (witnessed and experienced it multiple times), but I'll grant that two+ ZOMG OUTRAGEOUSLY HUNKY MUSCLE STUDS pursuing a supposedly plain person at the same time is a little more atypical; it's usually more likely people who are similar in attractiveness level to the person being pursued or a mixed range of suitors.
@@ZethsCraftDesk In my personal experience it's much more common for girls to fight over the same dude, I've witnessed that more times than I care to count, but it's fairly uncommon in YA, and even in the cases where it does happen it's resolved fairly quickly, because while we're still talking about character tropes, male YA protagonists tend to be a lot more decisive than female YA protagonists. If you read enough YA it becomes really hard to ignore these tendencies, and it's one of (many) reasons I stopped reading YA a long, long time ago.
@@ManiaMac1613 - If they are competing, it's because she has something they both want, such as wealth or a title. Or, in our modern era, they want her attention.
The Giver is absolutely the best dystopian novel ever, and the rest of her novels set in this world are amazing.
Do best dystopian tropes, please.
YASS!!
what about 1984 and World War Z
I’m reading The Giver for school right now and I absolutely love it!
There are more!?!
@@glitzicurities9075 I read the second but it's terrible. Not recommended.
I'm gonna do my book:
#1 ☹️ Yep, it's four teenagers
#2 😐 Nope! They all live in a regular-ish town.
#3 😐 I guess there isn't a lot of world-building. It's meant to seem close to the world we live in now with one different
#4 😐 Depends on the character and what species they are. One protagonist is always terrified and the other is comic relief
#5 🙂 My protag cannot go five minutes without making an aro joke
#6 😐 They don't like the system, but nobody thinks too much about it. A plot twist is the ones who complain get brainwashed to be docile
#7 🙂 Nope.
#8 🙂 Nope. The character who can fight well is trained and practices a few times casually. The Smart Guy stays physically weak all the way through
#9 😐 Again, it depends on the character
#10 ☹️ I mean, they're called zombies, but they're hyper-intelligent, don't eat flesh and aren't always dead. It's more a nickname. But they're still called zombies more than once
@Zabeer Farid In-universe it's more of a slang term, but mainly it's because if they get shot their bodies keep working until they fall to bits. Since they don't feel pain, they keep talking and acting the same as before
@@CantDraw-bq6pj Kool breakdown, got me excited to hear more. They sound more like necromorph from dead Space tho - but that's still pretty cool.
@@neilcognito I'll have to check that out
I’m gonna do my book! -
#1 - Four teenagers, (eh).
#2 - They live in dorms, so it’s divided by age…
#3 - I really like long descriptions, (Oops).
#4 - They’re cursed, they have dollar store superpowers, (one can rotate grass, wow!) They have what’s called, ‘Gray magic,’ but they make the best out of it.
#5 - My characters are good looking, but they aren’t little Mrs. Aphrodite, they train at school, so they’re muscular.
#6 - I have a secret agency in my book, it’s been passed down, but only now have they been noticing it while they expand the garden. It lets people relive their best years and then kills them.
#7 - No, no and no, I don’t really write romance.
#8 - My MC’s have trained at a private school, so nope.
#9 - The school is high funded, and modern. A lot of donators pay for the less fortunate.
#10 - They’re not really zombies, I guess they aren’t in touch with reality, but they still function like a normal human.
@@deletedbecauseofhate-9971 #7 was about sexual assault. How can you answer that by saying you don't write romance?! Assault is not romantic!
11# Government system x-ray
When a character that has lived their entire life in a world that is run by a dictatorship can tell that democracy would be better. Even though canonically no one could have told them.
Why do they know this? Pft reasons. It would have been great if they had a reason for seing the faults in the world.
I'm not saying that the characters can't make remarks about the world they live in, I'm just saying they don't have our perspective. They won't know exactly how a democratic system should work since they have never experienced or even heard of it.
This!!
Well, is the entire world engulfed in this system of just a specific country/region/planet, for example?
Because realistically, no matter how perfectly controlled the government may think the public is, there is no way media and tales from the outside world don't leak in. Some people will see/hear about the other forms of life and probably even add some embellishments to the stories and eventually, someone might think what they have heard about the other systems may be much better than what they themselves have.
@@sleepysera Yes, I have no problem with that. I have a problem with that most of them seem to get the knowledge from nowhere just because they're a special protagonist snowflake
HaichaoTeaLover you assume the author of our shitty dystopian took that into account when the protagonist made up democracy
True. Not only in dystopian settings, but even worse in historical fiction or medieval fantasy you often encounter the bad trope that the protagonist has practically modern day western world 21st century views when it comes to moral standards and human rights. They are all for democracy, freedom rights, female equality, racial equality, freedom of religion etc. even in settings where the vast majority (either by default setting of the author's worldbuilding or by historical fact) does not share or not even know of such views. If the protgonist grew up in a society where such views are outright alien, an explanation is due from where he/she got those ideas and how he/she is so confident that he's right and everyone else is wrong.
THANK YOU!!! I’m so sick of hearing sexual assault only happening to women to a point I’ve heard people claim it can’t happen to a guy. Now I personally don’t like it in stories at all (unless it’s written really well and is the focus of the story), but if your going to have it, can we at least have sometimes where it happens to a guy? It does not just happen to women and shouldn’t be treated as such. Sorry, it just erks me so much to never see it happen and on occasion have it told to me that it doesn’t happen to a guy.
Also I’m so glad to see that I’m not the only one who gets annoyed by most of these tropes in distopian stories...
Megamanlanprime
Would you mind it so much if I used it to further the story, left a lot to imagination (I personally don’t like writing that stuff), and used the character for better things later on? Asking for general feedback
@Jieming Gan Check out "A Boy and his Dog". Main charater is taken underground, and told he will be helping impregnate the under dweller women. He is at happy, but instead, well, think milking machine
Jieming Gan it could be as simple as groping.
If you want it to show some type of back story, you could show the guy getting groped heavily (This is a weird thing to say) while he doesn’t really respond or he just lets it happen and doesn’t want to talk about it (he’s clearly unhappy and it’s clearly non consensual). It could hint that something has happened before in his past and you could dive into his emotions later as he develops into a stronger character.
If you want it to be a one-off thing, then you could do a close-call or a situation where he reacts to being touched on his willy or something (again, so very weird to say), and it leads to him hitting some guy or lady and you can take it from there. Maybe he is charged with assault or the person he hits is somehow involved with another character and there is a fight. These are a few ideas that hopefully made sense 😬
Just to add on to my already long comment.
If you wanted to do it in a dystopian type thing. Maybe the guy was told to never fight back so he lets people grope him (I hate myself for saying ‘grope’ so much) because he has no other option. Like people take advantage of him because he cannot fight back without getting in trouble or some serious shit happened to him as a child and he has some type of mental block that doesn’t allow him to fight back, he just freezes out of terror.
In the other situation, well it really could happen in most genres. Maybe he fought back and hit his best friend’s girlfriend or the governor’s wife or the antagonist’s friend.
@@firstnamelastname6016 Check out Terry Crews. He was at one party where his crotch was rubbed by a guy, and had to do nothing. If he had done anything to tell the guy to back off, he would have been labeled as violent
"Dystopian and contemporary are misery..."
THANK YOU. I was wondering if it was just me getting all depressed reading those things!
I mean you are kinda meant to.
@@bessieburnet9816 lol true
The worst part about this crap is that it sells... I rarely find fiction that deviates from these tropes and when I do, they usually have few sales. I would much rather write something interesting than writing to these markets, but the money isn't there to really hit the mark. :(
IKR! Seriously, everything on sale is terrible and repetitive while the REAL modern originals are hard and costly to find! :(
it's hard for something to sell when many publishers consider it 'too risky' to actually try selling it in the firstplace. It's not that there aren't plentiful modern masterpieces, it's just that in certain genres publishers will actively shoot down the not-clones, despite other genres like fantasy sci-fi flourishing easily with massive profits because of new and subversive works. Unfortunately like the movie and tv industry, publishing agents and editors are also affected by truisms rather than the reality of their own platform
Same about fantasy. That's why it's considered a low genre - because it is easier to print the same crap over and over again than to encourage truly talented and brave writers
Even if I make no money, I’d rather be a deviant and poor than a sellout and rich.
Hmm... it’s almost as if the uniformity of modern dystopian novels ironically mirror the same conformity they claim to despise...
It occurs to me that most of these YA dystopian novels are simply extensions of high school. Seemingly arbitrary divisions, biggest difficulty facing the protagonist is which boy to choose, system is always evil but incompetent. Yep, sounds like the whole world is now high school.
Hmm, satirical YA dystopian novel where high school literally never ends... I might be onto something.
Please go for that! I want to read it!
@@johannageisel5390 i want to read it too even though I don't know English!!!
@@kotrena What? You're writing in English. How can you do that without knowing English?
@@johannageisel5390 Google translate + just a liiiiiitle bit of my own knowledge
Pure escapism for adults. Divisions become real; system is evil, incompetent and hates you; the biggest difficulty facing you is having time to meet anyone - neither you nor anyone else has time since everybody is perpetually at work and all the unemployed are hanging indoors playing videogames.
YA dystopia looks real idyllic suddenly.
Oh Jenna, you know we love you trashing genres... and it gives you a golden chance to dump on bad writing and teach us stuff indirectly! Win-win! :)
The point about fighting made me think about ‘The Matrix’ and Neo’s “I know Kung fu!” after it’s been downloaded! That was a cool way to do it. But I thought it was also clever in the final film when you saw Neo and Trinity fighting in the real world and their lack of physical strength and skill. It all worked so well and felt authentic.
I'm writing a fantasy novel about magic monks who live in caves and your videos have helped me and given me a laugh, thanks Jenna! :D
Lol, I guess the Maormi are cool.
Awesome, good luck with that and have fun writing.
@@presleybaldwin3756 thank you, Arcanum has been incredibly fun to write so far
@@paint0772 You're welcome and that's a great name for it.
@@presleybaldwin3756 thanks lol
Does anyone want to hear my book idea? No? Well I'll say it anyway.
It's called "I wish my blade were sharper" and it's about an "Elegant" that struck down a powerful man for reasons unknown but failed to take his life. Her class, her power and her everything was taken and she was turned into a "Dusty" and from this new perspective sees that her own family is in trouble due to the upcoming rebellion so she joins the rebels to destroy them from the inside but finds that the first incident left her unable to take another's life. Now she must try to out manoeuvre geniuses while trying to find out what started the rebellion in the first place.
Ninga Black Star33 - Hm. If you don't mind sharing, is there a strict class system in this world, and are there classes between the "Elegant" and "Dusty"? Are they separated by money, race, bloodline, magic, species, or something else?
Sounds like a fun idea (especially joining a rebellion to destroy it from the inside). Lol. My character has a similar backstory of being part of an upper class and losing everything, except instead of joining the rebels or fighting against them, they're using the rebels to further their goals and don't care about the actual outcome of the rebellion or the impact they have on the rebels or those they rebel against. They just know they can exploit the needs of the desperate and disadvantaged rebels to get what they want.
What are the rebels fighting for (in your story)? Is it an equal rights or independence movement, or something else? Of course, you don't have to answer anything (I'm awkward about sharing too much and feel uncomfortable sometimes, so I wouldn't mind, whatever your reason), but I'd love to learn about it.
@@mariesummers. Dustys are the lowest class, lower than commoners. After that there are smokies, drags, watchers, counters, the salties, the tall and the prouds. An Elegant is a Proud with high skills. Above them is the 9circle, the people who make most of the decisions. The classes are separated by wealth and honour.
The rebels are fighting for equality and justice because they aren't treated like humans. This is because Dustys are often people who failed their assigned job. The rebels aren't only made up of Dustys though. Some are people who wanted to follow their passion but were forced to do something else.
Thanks for asking!
@@ningablackstar3391 - Sounds cool. Is it a magic world or is it more of a normal one? Good luck on writing, by the way, and with publishing, if you plan on doing that.
@@mariesummers. It's a normal world but more advanced technologically
I love how in point 2 she's basically like "Divergent sucks. Deal with it" XD
Supernova She's doing that in almost all the points, honestly.😂
"Be patience! I need a boyfriend before I take down the evil government! I can't do this on my own, although I am totally overpowered!"
Ah yes, the most effective way of writing a strong, compelling female character; give her absolutely zero agency for the entire story and have the supporting cast do all the heavy lifting for her.
hey, Jenna. my mom lost her battle with cancer around a week and a half ago. it's been rough, and I'm feeling more alone in the world than I ever have. so I've been marathoning your vids to help distract me. hope you're well, regards to Cliff, and thanks for the new vid 🖤
"...but boy do they wear alot of cargo pants."
Me: *looks away while eating pretzels and thinking about my MC whose whole wardrobe is cargo pants and tshirts*
don’t worry, i’m a real human and i wear cargo pants every day because they’re super convenient.
Can you do a video on writing a book on religious topics? Advice on that would be really helpful.
Edit: I mean writing angels,demons,and so on and so fourth
Edit 2: Wow! Thank you all for the feedback! I didn’t expect this to blow up so quick! ☺️😭
Very difficult topic if you actually want to play around with existing religions. Much potential to both emberass yourself and piss people off (the latter will probably happen no matter how well you do your job, because someone's always going to be offended). I'd say if you want to write urban fantasy with cool superpowered fantasy creatures of light and darkness fighting a shadow war among the humans or something like that, then best keep away from traditional Christianity, Islam etc. and make it a parallel universe with a religion of your own design around it. But if you insist on having e.g. catholic priests trying to drive away demons or team up with angels to hunt down the prophecized antichrist or something like that, then first step is: Do your research thoroughly. You'll probably need to change some things, because real exorcism rites are rather bland and the church isn't actually used to encountering demons in the flesh. But before you start adapting, you need to know how it works in reality. Nothing is both more ridiculous and potentially infuriating for a religious reader than reading about an angel or a priest character that is supposedly Christian preaching nonsense and spreading fortune cookie wisdom that exposes that the author has clearly only a very vague idea what that religion is about and what a genuine religious person would say or do in a given situation.
I’d say same as the other guy that replied, but I’d say stay away from demons/angels that appear in religious work unless the story is about those entities (ex. I wouldn’t add a subplot where the MC has to kill Beelzebub for whatever reason in a story where all the other demons they kill are explicitly unnamed, but something like Supernatural could do something like that because it also pulls a lot of other stuff from said works)
And if you do choose to feature known demons, do your research. It will be hard because so many demons and angels have contradicting stories, only one story or none at all, but even a mid tier knowledge would be good
Also- figure out what kind of demons you want. I’ve only really seen two kinds- Physical demons and Possession Demons. Physical Demons (think Good Omens ) have a constant form, and never change it. You can generally kill a physical demon with any kind of weapon. Their no big on Possessions either because they can’t or it’s just east to kill people with claws. Possession Demons (Supernatural) have no kind of form. They can only function when possessing someone, so you can’t really kill them, just exorcise them or kill the host. Most can’t really be killed.
That’s all I got though. Hope it helped
Ocean Blue
Then you’re overlooking it.
There’s more to work with when you have an entire pantheon of gods and shit, Christianity doesn’t have that to the scale of Greek, Egyptian and Norse mythologies. Why have one god, one devil, and a shit ton of demons, a handful of angels when you can have everything; a multitude of gods and monsters with enough lore to give you vertigo
TALK TO PEOPLE WITH THOSE BELIEFS!!!
Ocean Blue
There was recently some backlash from the Hindu community when a video game character resembled one of the Hindu gods.
There me have been a ton of Christian themed Angels vs Demons urban/contemporary fantasy. If you throw vampires into the mix then that dramatically increases those numbers.
Thank you for touching on male sexual assault. As a victim of such, I really appreciate it.
DON'T GET ME sTaRtEd ON THE FRECKLES
Freckles are cute.
Braces don't make you ugly.
Acne is temporary.
Don't fixate on those little things, work on your personality to make people like you.
@@reasyrandom uh thanks for the advice my dood but I was referencing how every YA writer gives their character freckles. I don't mind freckles whatsoever
@@laurahorn9285 Yeah, but it's annoying how people immediately think people are ugly for having freckles.
@@reasyrandom people think that? Really? That's weird and illogical
@@laurahorn9285 I know right?
I don't even have freckles and it makes no sense to me.
Hmm. Veronica Roth and Suzanne Collins are quaking.
She said 'factions' and I *choked*
Maybe they are quacking too.
Veronica Roth did use factions but she devided the population with actual logic.Like Erudite-the smart,Dauntless-the brave,Candor-the honest etc and it made sense.
Rona Rushiti there is literally 0 logic in her faction system.
At least the Districts are divided in what they provide. None of that "personality" bullshit.
Oh wow I'm early! Quick, gotta think of a joke...
*Veronica Roth's writing*
To quote April Ludgate, "buurn."
ManiaMac1613 Twilight
You think Divergent is a joke? Hahaha!
@@bessieburnet9816 Divergent isn't a joke. Jokes are supposed to be funny.
@@ManiaMac1613 dauyyummm
The Cybord Queen has uploaded! And it's about my genre! I can't wait to have my confidence crushed 😂😂
Lol
Same 😂
I’m writing a dystopia which disguises itself to look like a utopia. Plus, the main character is part of the “better” and richer part of society but runs away from that life after finding out what’s really going on and helps out the rebels. I’ve never really seen that done before and I wanted to give it a go.
Metropolis by Thea Harbou, movie by Fritz Lang
_"Unless it's relevant to the story, cut it"_
This might be the best all-round writing advice. Apply this to every aspect of your book and you'll be fine.
Yeah I’m listening to your story The Savior’s Champion on audible, and I got to say, you took my creative writing teachers words “you (the writers) need to be sadistic” I was like DANG!!
Nothing like a Jenna rant to keep me distracted from my work! The dishrag facts renewed my work ethic.
I like some of the old dystopians...and then it became a Ya trash heap of love triangles and ridiculous premises for setting/plot.
I'd also like to add that most zombie novels fall under apocalypse/post apocalypse which tend to deal with the collapse of society or post collapse rather than a weird society that is built around a philosophical tweak which is the hallmark of dystopians. I have yet to read a dystopian zombie novel but id really like some names for them if anyone knows a good one. It really seems like an incompatible relationship zombie/dystopia.
The only one I can think of is World War Z. Lmao I usually just play zombie dystopian videogames so I know a few of those too
"Male sexual assault is under represented... female sexual assault is over represented..."
Thank you for calling this out.
Where is most male rape occuring? I was under the impression it was in prison. Portraying male rape only makes since if they're aren't any ladies to rape.
@@frankmiller4550 Male rape happens outside of prison and is not limited to male-on-male. However, this is not the best topic to discuss in the TH-cam comments section. There are better sites on the 'net who can cover this topic better so I recommend poking around for some of those.
@@ChrisDreher your incoherent, non-argumentative statement leads me to believe you're one of those "people" that doesn't know which bathroom to use.
Frank Miller Oh fuck off you transphobe. Female on male rape happens and by denying it you’re part of the problem.
@@frankmiller4550 Oof transphobia isn't a good look, my friend.
I am actually starting a urban fantasy, dystopian novel! This is amazing advice!
#10. I LOVE zombie tropes. But 100% agree they're overdone.
I'm personally writing a zombie story and am guilty of it myself but I agree there overdone but not in the way that "There too many zombie books In general". it's really more that they always have the same story and are repetitive. I just hope I can have something less repetitive.
Mk. Rowe I just want a zombie story where the cause is supernatural and not sci-fi like in the original myths
@@pisces2569 Original myths?
Mk. Rowe zombies have origins in African and Haitian myths
@@pisces2569 Interesting. I'll have to google that.
:)
*I didn't know how much I needed this video until it appeared on my notifications.*
Unwashed Mass: "How'd you learn to fight so good?"
MC: "We forgot to pay our taxes, so the gov. used technomagic to overrun our village with Stumblers."
They leveled up via grinding mobs?
All I could think about during this video is about how almost all of your tropes apply to Divergent 😂
And yet it's still a good read. Amusingly, I'm like Four, in that no matter what clothes I put on in the morning, they magically morph into jeans and T-shirt by smoko time.
7:10 "I'm just saying that mobs of men don't clamor to f--- a dishrag."
NOW I HAVE TO CLEAN MY LAPTOP SCREEN FROM MY SPIT-TAKE THANKS JENNA
Next 👏Topic 👏!
Best tropes for Anti-Hero's and/or Tragic Hero's
I do the tragic mentally broken heros way way way too much
“Lots of writers try to pretend there not zombies by calling them something new”
*maze runner series* **cough cough** *cranks*
Those horror novels are too damn dark 😕
Dystopian novels: hold my pen
Real life : hold my pen you both
"Pretty people live here!" *Points at screen *
Me: *Blushes *
7:23
Come to any country in Africa.
We have corruption, and an undying disdain for the government :)
Trust me, we tried a coup d'état. Suffice to say it only made things worse.
What's a coup d'état?
kbear it’s when a group of people (in our case, most of the population) forcefully try to overthrow a government.
It worked, the president left but was replaced by someone just as bad, now the country is a mess.
Ikr, only a few democracies can boast that most of their citizens approve of their government.
Edit: In the History of humanity, not just the 21st century
gabzz haven’t you heard? America is the only country that exists
? Are you Algerian
Thanks for touching on the unecessary descriptions! I havs yet to put a book down to figure how long is 50 feet!
Sigh sadly reality is too dystopian for me to enjoy reading any dystopian novel.
I avoid zombie stuff like a plague lol
Yeah, well not every dystopia is zombie related
@@bessieburnet9816 Thank God lol
No need to worry about getting infected then ;)
have you read flawed by cecelia ahern? it seems like it fits under the first trope you mentioned, but it actually is done in a way that makes it a believable story. it's a really good dystopian book that i'd definitely reccomend, even though it is a little predictable at first. it's really underappreciated as a book, and should definitely be given more credit and attention.i'm reading the sequel, perfect, right now, and it's also really good. i'd like to hear your opinion on the book!
(sorry for my bad spelling. english is not my fist language
Me: *writing
Jenna:*uploads
Me: Not today, it's JENNA TIME!
No, but really, your videos are the best part of my week.
Tips on writing physical/emotional pain?
Honestly my favourite "dystopian" story i had ever read/watched is definitely "The Lobster". Because it seems so normal at first.
But then you get to know the world and realize that it's probably one of the worst dystopian worlds ever.
A Brave New World by Aldous Huxley and1984 by George Orwell are absolute masterpieces in the dystopian genre and just in general.
Did you read "We" by Zamyatin? It's a masterpiece which inspired Orwell
Trashing popular stuff, or popular trash?
Harmony Alexandria What the fuck are you talking about?
@Harmony Alexandria Commie detected.
Cody Johnson both of those are some of my favorite books
#2, nonsensical factionalism, has always annoyed me since "Divergent". Yes, we as people have a bad habit of mentally reducing others to singular characteristics, but organizing an all-consuming, rigid social structure in that fashion just seems illogical to me. Primarily because personality is too complex to reduce to "Candor" or "Parkcore" or whatever. For me, the "Hunger Games" district system made more sense because it was about regional economic inequality, which is really an exaggerated version of reality.
Also, "Harry Potter" gets away with it because their Houses are limited to low-stakes school competitions and because the nature of the personalities of the Houses is amorphous. Like, it's hard to fully explain each House individually, but we can totally "sort" our friends when we think about it for 5 seconds.
One dystopian plot that I love but that isn’t mainstream is the society has the appearance of being a Utopia. We need more like this Jenna!!!!!!!!
They're the best ones because you can understand why society isn't screaming against the system. Even if your mc feels like something is not right they assume everyone else is satisfied.
I have an idea for a book!(yes I know ideas are a dime a dozen), what if we had a king who murdered his way to the throne but intended to rule nobly, and had the skills to do so, but because he stole the kingship (from a mediocre king) the fates(vague supernatural force) have put forth a chosen one of royal blood to dethrone him, and he must use both his cunning bombast to stave him off because despite the chosen one's inexperience and lack of resources he manages to get constant lucky breaks, and succeed, because the narrative of fate will bend both logic and probability to restore what it sees proper ruler of the kingdom.
*Hey it's Jenna, Back at it again messing up her characters and hating on your square footage*
I find it amazing how many of these sound like somebody wanted to copy The Hunger Games without bothering to understand why the tropes actually work in those books.
I loved your point on sexual assault, I understand why people will skip over it but I think it is very well said! Personally, I don’t write sexual assault or rape in my WIPs because I don’t think I’d be skilled enough to do it justice (meaning I fear I’d write something that victims would find offensive, not glorifying the assault)
Basically shots fired at The Handmaid's Tale... with zombies.
🤔on second thought, Syfy needs to call me, I just thought of a potential game changer.
honestly, if that idea was done right, that would be so intresting
I was motivated to start a dystopian fanfic after watching this so thank you, also I'm going to try and avoid most of the issues talked about here.
Besides the real question is will I finish it ever.
Jenna’s point at 9:25 made me rethink the dystopian portion of my novel. Then I re-rethought it and changed nothing. I have reasons for the rundown cities and absurd crime rates, I swear.
SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!!
SOMEONE ACTUALLY KNOWS THE MOVIE!!!! whenever I say that to someone other than my dad no one understands
IKR? I’ve waited forever for someone else to get the joke
You need to find an older crowd. Soylent Green is pratically a trope by now. XD
I love your advice and personality. Your advice is amazingly helpful. Thank you.
“I’m *dying* for something different.”
As she talks about zombies. i see that pun.
What I hate the most in zombie stories: whenever it goes on about the possibility of finding a cure and almost the whole story or books keep giving you false hope with a big quest they go on to try to find it. But then then there is no cure, and the "solution" to saving humanity just ends up being a handful of "special" immune individuals all living together in an isolated place away from the rest of the world so that they can carry on the human race there while the rest of the survivors are just left to die out and become zombies. I hate that SO much and I just want to see something for once where they can cure people and save everything!
I know! That is so annoying!
I'm going to write a dystopia where everybody writes and read terrible dystopia stories...
Oh wait.
funny and witty, I started pointlessly looking at this as entertainment only, but I am very inspired and motivated to pursue my creative streak little by little, thank you.
Your intro "Heeeellllooo Everybody" is a youtube notification on my cell phone LOL
How is he suddenly a ninja?
Power of montage of course
I see me! Video was super cute!!!
Yeah, as a Sci-fi, Fantasy, and Dystopian writer, my characters have some sad pasts. I also have a couple of books about evil governments, but not EVERYONE hates them
I always felt Jin-roh: The Wolf Brigade was one of the best dystopian movies I have ever watched. If only because of how it goes out of its way to humanize the oppressors and show what day to day life is for them.
No one gets overthrown by a group of rebels. Hell, the morality of the "Rebels" is sometimes very unclear. And while some of the Kerberos forces really ARE evil, oppressive stormtroopers, many of them are just strung out average joes, stuffed into scary looking armor and just doing the job they were told to do. And that job is usually some variation of "trying desperately to prevent japanese civilization from completely imploding for just one more day."
Isn't there a remake in the works? I would love to see it.
There's a Korean live-action. Illang, the wolf brigade.
@@asgrimurhartmannsson any good?
@@EvilSandwich Yes. I recommend. Ends different than the japanese version, less cynically... not as good an ending if you ask me, but the overall flick is worth it.
On Netflix.
There used to be a pattern to dystopian fiction. Most of the people accept the system in the dystopian society. It's all they have ever known, but the protagonist has an eye opener and he or she starts questioning things. However, unlike superhero and other fantasy genres, the hero's spirit is usually crushed by the end of the novel. The eset dystopian novel for me is the granddaddy of them all-1984.
The exception that proves the list: Mad Max. Especially Road Warrior and Fury Road and yes, I know they aren't books...sue me! :P
I write a dystopian fanfic just for fun these days, and I have a 1 paragraph-long rape scene, male on male, that I tried my best to make repulsive and sad... At the beginning of your video, I was afraid I'd be called out on that, but listening to your point makes me realise I'm not the worst out there.
:( But, Jenna, I like reading upon the square footage of all the closets.
I love the giver. Not only does that book have reasons for making society the way that it is it also asks some very thought provoking questions about the imperfect world. I got genuine chills when the mc asks what if we gave people choice. Like what if they could choose the colour of their stuffed animal at birth. It wouldn’t effect much. But what if people had more choice. What if they could choose who they could marry, or what job they wanted. But how would that work? What if they chose wrong?
Finnick from The Hunger Games is a great example of male sexual assault! Him and Haymitch are both confirmed to be victims, and Gloss was implied to have dealt with it as well. In terms of sexual assault in dystopian novels, THG is the very best representation i’ve seen of showing trauma affecting characters (especially men) while not fetishizing or overexplaining it.
Almost every hunger game victor was assaulted/abused
Thank you so much for making this video Jenna. I love dystopian fiction!!!!
8:51 no you don't understand there was a training montage
I've been really hooked on your channel recently. These videos are really informative. I was wondering have you made a video about how to finish a novel well? Like, what is the best way to end the story without it sounding too awkward or cliche. What kind of scene would be good?
I'm finishing my novel and while I know what the last chapter will have in it, I have no idea what would be a good way to actually wrap it all up.
To this day, my favorite dystopian remains "The Group Hopper".
It made me so proud that I've missed every single worst troupe and hit on almost all of the best ones in your Dystopian videos. Like, "Yes, the bar was so low, and without even trying I passed it!"
the only one I got was the teen one cuz my characters are in their late teens 💀 the series is gonna span several years tho so I guess they don’t save the world till later
"Everybody hates the government. How the hell is the government in power then?"
... I... I can give you like three different examples of how that happens. But also - the number one thing to remember about any dystopian fiction where it suggests everyone hates the government is that it's going to be written from the perspective of those who hate the government and whatever close group of people they surround themselves with that agree -- even when the writer is trying write from third person.
It's really easy to become convinced that your preferred politics are actually well received and near universal when you either cut everyone out of your life who disagrees with you - or you and those people come to a mutual decision to not discuss these topics with each other because you value your over-all relationship above the damage this one aspect if focused on could cause.
Love your channel,big fan of dystopian fiction!
Here’s another trope: It’s always set in ‘Murica. Let’s be real here, if there was some dystopian war or something, America would probably be the first place to go. Occasionally we get one in either Asia or the UK, which is better to say the least, though very rare. Set it in like Kenya or something, that would be unique.
As a fantasy writer myself, I rarely use "because of magic." I feel like even in a fantasy setting it's important to show your character struggling to learn how to fight or to use their powers. This is super prevalent in a novel I'm writing right now. There is a school for training magical powers that the characters were born with (it's the magical equivalent of English class for native speakers, somewhat useless but still important enough to keep around) and a good chunk of the story watching a character improve at sword fighting. I've learned over my writing journey that if characters don't work hard they aren't relatable. If they aren't jerks for a good reason at one point, that can also make them less relatable.
Using magic as an excuse to get out of a little extra storytelling really bugs me. A wonderful example of a book that doesn't entirely cut corners is The Door Within. It's in a trilogy and the next two books are just as good as the first.