I burst out laughing when you said “and now back to this irrelevant river”. You are spot on with this “review”. They said/showed nothing in regards to what simulation fans want to know about the game. Foliage and water are not what we are looking for despite how great it looks. Let’s hope they refocus their efforts on the game and not just making it look good. To me that’s what Forza Horizon is for!
Forza isn't a sim, its a simcade. Plus, they confirmed tyre compounds, fuel, track temps changes, all good things for the more sim preferring racer. It wasn't bad for a reveal imo
@@battfinkz Only players say its simcade that have no clue how complex the Forza physics engine is even since FM2. Saying that its arcade or simcade is disrespecting the work the devs put into the game in my oppinion. Simcade does only exist in some gamer heads. :P
@@tonitornado69 don't be daft, it's simcade through and through. Race me, you on a wheel and me on controller, I'll win every time, its absolutely set up to appeal to the masses using a controller, with the driving aids clearly built into the controller use, even with all assists turned off. I have tested this on both for countless hours, against my own times with both wheel and controller. Not only that but it has next to no proper sim aspects or race options to create a real, life like race/ series. It's simcade 100% Also I am not disrespecting anything, this is the devs clear vision for Forza, they have never committed to making it as sim as possible, they have always clearly told us that the game is to appeal to all as a balanced title. I also love Forza and enjoy it for what it is, have done since FM1 came out for the og xbox, but its a simcade at best
@@battfinkz You should look at Twitch Kutu182 and his VoD when he was driving iRacing with PS4 pad because of back pain issues so he could not use his wheel. Its a VoD from last year and called "PS4 Controller: Porsche GTE at Nordschleife" Also in Assetto Corsa many people on pad drove in the top 10 of the leaderboards. So what i want to say is that it doesnt matter what input device it matters how good its implemented and if the players has every needed options for it.
I think this presentation was designed to get the most positive impact from a casual fan base to think woow that looks cool, especially as it's a big gaming showcase not focused on just core Forza fans. I'm sure over time as they show the game off just to Forza fans, that the presentation will be a lot more focused on what the core Motorsport fan base will want to see.
But they have a game for those people already, called Forza Horizon 5. That’s the problem with Xbox studios, they just don’t understand what racing fans want.
@@bfcricky But you have to remember that the percentage of people that thinks like Alan is very very small. Even the core Motorsport fan base wouldn't think as deep as what was discussed in this video. So although they could have shown more in terms of suspension models etc, it's not the main purpose of this showcase. There is a lot of time before release for them to do that. The team also knows that the hardcore fans are not going to just give up on the series just because they didn't see everything they wanted to in this first video. We will read every article they release and watch every video they show. A less hardcore fan might see a serious presentation and make an inaccurate immediate judgement that this doesn't look fun. IMO this showcase did what it was supposed to and had just enough information to intrigue my interest for the deeper simulation models, day night cycle impacts, tyre wear etc which we will learn in more detail over time.
@@Shift4g yeah... but my point has always been you have your nfs type game... so let motorsport be .... motorsport.... for all the 'forza was never a sim' people.... the loading screen from FM1.... if you played it, you know.....
They can't have a trailer made for vehicle dynamics enthusiasts at a big Microsoft Bethesda summer even showcase. For that, the trailer made total sense imo. However, they had this second "extended showcase" event, which would have been the perfect place to get more into detail... and they didn't. And it is because there isn't much actually. I too was hoping for a big physics overhaul, but - as some Forza fan pointed out on GamerMuscle's trailer opinions - the "48x higher fidelity" number comes together as this: the XBO generation Forza games updated the track-to-tire interaction/scan part of the physics engine at 60fps, which they bumped to 360fps (same as the rest of their physics engine), which is a factor of 6x, and they also now have 8 contact points per tire instead of just one - 6x8=48. Thinking back of how going from 1 to 5 contact points changed the handling in ACC, that made the car behave much more natural over bumps and curbs, but it didn't change the driving feel. So, in my book, that doesn't add to the "fidelity". And all of this means, the physics model is still the same, they mostly added stuff onto it. Really was hoping they'd go back to the drawing board for some parts of their physics in this comparitively looong break by FM standards.
As a FM veteran i am addicted to FM7 but also never felt quite right. Constant tweaking of wheel settings (i play with csl elite) but FINALLY found a perfect mix of settings! Perfect roadfeel, perfect rotation and forces and now i cant wait to get my hand on the 8th iteration! Specially after the slight disappointment of GT7
Spot on, Alan! I've always said they ruined the handling after FM4 and have personally likened 5-onwards to driving a car with wooden wheels and milk bottle tops for brakes. And agreed, all this graphics nonsense wasted on rivers and engine bays which you'll never see whilst playing. Changing handling for the better is what Forza's been crying out for for ages!
Fucking this!! I absolutely hate how most racing cars slide around corners constantly like they're on ice or something!! Shit is annoying! It's like they punish you for accelerating in general! IMO, For this game to succeed, they would add things like: 1. Actual Racing Rules & flags to penalize shit drivers. 2. AI opponents who don't rely on rubberbanding and bullshit advantages to get ahead. They need to race clean as well. I'm tired of getting rammed in the middle of a corner because some AI Dipshit doesn't see you there! 3. Updated Steering Animations in the cockpit view. Also, a way to adjust your seating position and FOV. 4. Actual pit animations and manual pit strategies. I saw a pit crew in the gameplay demo but only time will tell if they add it in or not(FM7 has pit crews in the trailers but never in the game itself) 5. Safety cars because why not add another random factor that would make racing more immersive?? 6. A safety rating system for online races so shitty rammers can wreck amongst themselves and the cleaner drivers can move up away from them. Also penalties would do wonders. 7. Wayy more tracks at launch and DLC Tracks after the fact. We will pay for new tracks so make them and charge a fair price dammit!! 8. A community storefront that's easy to get to and easy to navigate. 9. A much better UI. The UI in FM7 was pretty shit and needs a major overhaul. 10. Drafting and Tire Wear need to be increased ten fold since they are borderline useless in FM7 most times.
They really didn't say anything we didn't already know then the second reveal once again they didn't tell us anything they told us a few days ago they seemed more focused on talking about graphics and when asked about damage he just spoke about scratches telling a story i really want this to be amazing but I'm starting to doubt it they have also just stated the footage we saw was pc not series x apparently a "mistake"
Ac is improving and so isn't project cars, Forza will be a laughing stock if graphics are the only improvements. I'm starting to want to get gt7 and ac and a racing setup.
It almost feels like they cared more about that river than the driving... They should just make a boating game at this point... Funny you mentioned Forza Motorsport 3 because I feel like that was the best Forza ever released. The handling felt right, the menus, the tracks... In general it felt like a great solid game built for people who like racing cars. Forza Motorsport 5 was indeed the downfall of the series which coincides with Microsoft using them as the console's abilities showcase. Speaking of Motorsport 5, there's a very interesting case regarding Horizon 2. Horizon 2 on 360 is using the FM4/3 physics while on XBone it is using the FM5 physics and hands down H2 plays better on 360 from a driving standpoint. Less gimicky, just pure fun! Forza Motorsport became a game for gamers, I guess you could say, not a game for drivers. It's a game where you get to know its gimmick and live with it, from the silly tuning exploits to the driving it just feels needlessly gimicky for people who like hard games. Like you said, hopefully this is the best racing game ever and we're all wrong, but I'm not hopeful.
I think we should wait and see what it actually plays like when we get our hands on it instead of guessing and thinking we all know exactly how it plays by looking at a showcase demo. Don't forget this isn't the final product.
I appreciate your integrity...unfortunately people like this trash games before they even release...full of shit reviews...and so disingenuous because these same people will turn around and say that Gran Turismo 7 is better than Forza...ive already seen comments that say GT7 is better than Forza Motorsport....just sad and pathetic.
@@dionlandon479 The only thing T10 needs to borrow from PD these days is the mp. Personally I wish they would borrow from PC 1 - 2. A simcade with a similar presentation BUT a huge car list would be amazing imo.
I was a very pretty wee river, that when one is driving, it will be completely irrelevant. It was definitely lacking something but I just can't put my finger on it.
Didn't do it for me either. I think it's clear at this point they have no interest in using Motorsport to cater to racing sim fans. It's just Forza Horizon on race tracks.
@@TeamVVV I only mentioned that because of the way you were picking apart the lack of realism in the course design. I think if they showed a real life track and it had all those issues you pointed out, then it would be a fair gripe. But for a fictional track I don't think most people notice those issues.
You know, I saw the title and was ready to call you a grumpy old man Alan! However, I found myself agreeing with you on every single point you made. Very good video.
Odd thing to notice about the circuit footage; why are there flashes going off in the crowd? I get it is supposed to indicate people taking pictures, but everyone just uses their smartphone of choice to take the pictures these days, and the flashes on those never come on when there is light like this as they are useless.
Forza Motorsports was always fairly arcadey, but since we have Forza Horizon, I was hoping that FM could mature and shift more towards real racing game modes (practice, quali, race) and more detailed and realistic physics.
as long as they focus on controller we will never get properly engaging and realistic physics. thats why sims have poor controller support, each games physics is designed around its input device. just so happens that the input device of a wheel is 100% accurate to real life
Exactly, y’all stay over there!!! Since Forza 1 it has been marketed as simcade not simulation! Is to Fking boring and difficult! Forza is was always meant for the casual gamer or serious gamers that just want to have fun!
I'm very late to this video, but the gameplay demo video is extremely compressed, it's not the best idea to judge the tarmac detail when you can't make out what's actually there. Also, with the lighting looking kinda flat, that's an inherant limitation of realtime lighting. It's a tradeoff, it could be hyperrealistic with perfect ambient lighting, but it would all have to be precalculated with no dynamic time of day. Let's wait and see what it looks like when they go into more detail, or when they show off real tracks. To be clear. I think the criticism is fair, they didn't do a great job of showing it off. I just thought I'd explain why I think some stuff is the way that it is.
I've seen a 4K presentation, made no difference in detail perception. The texture work behind the realism expected, just isn't there. Lighting is an artistic approach, not a technical limitation. Suffice to say, if this is the best they had available, it doesn't bode well.
@@TeamVVV 4k or not, the bitrate and compression is terrible, nothing to do with resolution. As for the lighting, it shows all the inheritant limitations of realtime lighting, the GI is lacking which gives it the very flat look. If you're criticising something else I might be wrong, but if its what I think it is then it's not artistic.
Agree for the most, accept for the fact that I think turn10 physics didn’t start to feel lacking until Forza 6. I felt 5 was a nice improvement over 4 in physics department, the problem was that was the only improvement over 4. Both gt and forza both feel a bit stale as of late, hopefully the rebranding back to just forza Motorsport means back to form.
Sure, regarding FM5 the physics failing wasn't an opinion, it was a provable fact. Went through it all in detail at the time and shared my findings in various videos, the beginning of a downhill slope.
@@TeamVVV perhaps I need to reply 4 and 5 to be sure I’m remembering things correctly, it’s been some time. I also feel like the sense of speed has disappeared since 4
There are a lot of new and old sim games but till date no one has improved on the tyre feeling of rfactor 2 which is baffling. It seems that developers nowadays are more interested in making money rather than getting it right.
I was hoping for a more realistic campaign progression. I hated the cards and the random bonuses to win a car. Let me start with a cheap everyday car and work my way up the ranks like FM2.
This presentation was aimed at the casual gamer, that's for sure. Does it mean the handling will be arcadeish? No, but it really doesn't bode well. About Mapple Valley tricky last corner: it couldn't look tricky on the video because strangely, the cars were slow, I noticed that by the velocimeter.
Was massively into FM2 and FM4, especially online. Super competitive and the peak of FM, and its community. Since then, the series has gone downhill, the community are mostly a cult following, any negativity on the official forums end in user bans. Fortunately I've got a proper sim rig, and proper sim titles, so FM isnt needed anymore.
I agree with Alan. I'm not wowed by this new Forza Motorsport at all. I feel like I've seen it all before. Footage of rivers etc doesn't mean anything because you won't see it when you're driving. The car damage looks really poor. The car hit the wall flush and the car stays intact??? Burnout Revenge has better damage visuals. Forza 4 looked better for it's time than this. That game was polished. I haven't seen anything to make me buy an Xbox console post the 360. This is a Con.
Some car manufacturers won't let games show their cars with bits falling off as they think it'll impact sales lol. So these days scratches on the paint are as good as it gets sadly.
This was going to be the game that made me buy a xboxx, its too much Horizon for me, all fairgrounds and fireworks rather than racing. Initially disappointing.
To me it looks like they are going for grid legends gfx style than realistic. Though they said there will be race weekends, like practice, quali, race so may be like Pcars.
Yeah , you have put your finger on it , when I watched it , I didn’t know what to feel , my heart wanted to scream in jubilation, but something held me back
I was also very confused when I watched this trailer. It is as if they are just showing of their graphics engine. And while it is very impressive, you are right that it isn't always very realistic, so what even is the point? They seem to have forgotten that it is a GAME they're marketing...
Forza has always just been a drift game to me. The grip racing never feels good enough. It always feels like the game is punishing you for accelerating. I wish it would go back to FM1/2. Then again I only like those games because they were clearly just aping Gran Turismos bit. Part of me thinks Microsoft thinks GT is boring because the cars grip, so they overcompensate by making everything slidy and exciting maybe
Yup! This right here!! Its like the cars have an annoying tendency to slide constantly when your accelerating! Even if you properly input the throttle via a controller! What is wrong with a car having realistic grip???
100% agreed Alan. I’m a sim racer. Been fortunate enough to drive a few Ferrari’s. It just seems after it’s peak of Motorsport 6. 7 was awful. Wrong direction. It seems like Horizon has influenced it badly.
I agree that the trailers and showcase didn't show much. But I'm keen to see how this next-gen Forza fares against GT7. Hopefully the spring 2023 release could make all things right.
The majority will like it for the visuals being similar to forza horizon. It’s only the hardcore that want an actual Motorsport game that will complain, wfh but will probably be the minority.
The problem i have with the short trailer as well as with the gameplay video is that this game was supposed to be a reboot of the series right? Thats what they said when it was announced like two years ago and thats what they claimed now. But neither the snippets trailer nor the gameplay video did or showed anything that would highlight this. I did not see anything that has anything to do with a reboot. Go watch previous trailers and gameplay videos and this is exactly the same direction or stuff we got to see now. Where is the reboot here, where the novelty or change in the series philosophy? Its not there based on what they showed. If it was there, i am sure they would not hide it. I am yet to see something that justifies them taking a 5 year long break from the series. What has been shown until now could've been as well Forza Motorsport 8 that released in 2019 on their usual 2 year schedule.
What worries me is, the game is 4 months from the Blu-Ray mass duplication retail process and there is almost no proper gameplay footage. This stuff was in-engine and shown on PC. I wasn't worried about what I saw, because it was "produced" to look how it did. But I was more concerned about the fact that it wasn't an actual replay of Series X code running natively on the console. There is precious little time left, and precious little "real game" stuff in the public eye. The game has been in development since 2019. I'm also not interested in seeing my ray-traced car reflected onto the rear bumper of the car in front of me as I approach to overtake it. It's a replay eye-candy feature that's wasted in my mind. Even GT7 has screwed it's own gameplay due to OTT graphics settings, which means it cannot stay smooth whilst you're driving. Completely ruined GT7 for me. I'm quietly confident that Turn 10 will stick rigidly to "frame time" limits and a locked 60fps at all times. But I'd rather all the XB hardware be involved in creating as deep a game as possible where it counts. Car reflections as you pass a car are barely visible and a wasted in my mind. I'd rather have an extra 4 AI cars on track racing than have RT reflections. I want more detail on the track surface, not RT reflections. As you say Alan, something is going to have to give to make RT possible. All those highly detailed engine bays, and yet when we race on track they are under covers. I hope Turn 10 throw details down our throats every month for 4 months solid now, time is running out. I'm dreading them announcing a move to a Christmas launch, but with so little on display for us - what else do they expect some of us to think.
We learned nothing really if importance really. The emphasis on graphics does kind of make sense at a general public expo, but lack of real details on gameplay, physics, and even FFB is concerning. They have a chance to actually compete with Gran turisimo if the racing becomes the focus and they nail the gameplay, I enjoyed FH5, especially with the improved FFB, but that would be a bad direction to take FM8.
I do not think I have ever heard you sound this grumpy. Personally I do not want another Assetto Corsa or Project CARS. I want Forza, a game that plays perfectly on a controller. And I completely do not understand the need for a game to look "real". If I want reality, I go outside. Forza Motorsport has never been a true sim, and hopefully it never will be. It has its own unique take on motorsport. And while the Xbox One games have been somewhat disappointing, they still delivered hundreds of hours of awesome gameplay.
I agree with you on the car handling. Playing on a wheel had no feel whatsoever so I hope that’s addressed with this one. I do think you need to go to specsavers tho with regards to the graphics. This is head and shoulders above anything currently available and that includes GT7 which is still stuck in last gen and looked nothing like their initial reveal trailer.
Trailer didn't wow me either. But at the end of the day its just a trailer so I hope to learn more as we get closer to the game's release. But very little shown seemed to have a purpose. The BMW cruising through the last corner behind the Ferrari was a missed opportunity. Rather than cruise through at 110mph they could have shown it hunting down the Ferrari at higher speed on the edge of grip; zooming in on the car from side-on in slow motion to show the suspension travel and the car bottoming out before resuming the chase down the straight to show the slipstream effect and the two cars fighting side by side into turn 1. That would have captured the essence of Forza Motorsport much better.
Just clicked to watch the video and even without watching it i agree already with the title. After i have watched the video edit: I went and took a look at the official GT7 trailer, it's 3minutes something long and they did a way better job showing more of the driving and what the game will be about than Forza Motorsport did in over 6-7 minutes if you combine both trailers. GT7 tried to show off menus, campaign, some proper driving, there was no showing of how nice the environment looks other than what you could see from the replay cam that was actually focused on the cars. For all the faults of GT7 but that trailer back then gave me more information than this here. I agree with everything that was said in this video and i am highly sceptical about this game, as i was with Forza 6 and 7 after that awful 5 - and those games were indeed just what i expected. They were underwhelming at best. Now, don't get me wrong, i don't expect GT or Forza to feel as good as iRacing, ACC etc, but i do expect them to feel like they at least tried to make it a simulator and not simply a graphical showcase. Yes i appreciate good graphics even in sims but i end up having more fun in iRacing on tracks that have cardboard trees simply because the racing action and driving feel is superb, the moment-to-moment driving experience delivers. Sure, bring on the theme parcs and the fireworks and goofy voices and festivals and whatnot, but just not when you are trying to make a serious motorsport game. Leave all that to Forza Horizon, they make a way better job with this and embed it in the game's philosophy so that it just works. But from Motorsport i expect something completely different. And yes, the colors look way too cartoony and at the same time there is a washed out feel about them too.
Agree with this and also I think turn 10 has still more to learn on pd. Fans want to know what will be the content of the game but instead what they show is the graphics fans like content not quality actually when they show the gameplay and trailer I was amazed but now after reading this comment I'm having doubts for this game
The only thing I really took from it was: “ooo look how pretty our game looks because that’s about all the fuck we have to offer as we don’t actually understand how racing works. Pitlane you say, tyre model you say… what’s that ?, I think you mean that our game now has night and day, track conditions, time of day change, gravel. Oh look our cars… take damage, but we don’t know what you mean when you say the track surface looks extremely flat, clean and unused, our cars unrealistically understeer absolutely everywhere and our tyres don’t actually wear, switch on, get second wind or tac up they simply just… exist. But hey why don’t we check in with Dan who’s blazing past that river with a wild otter Otter floating through the water”
From a sim racers perspective I think this game isn't for us. I was on some general gaming forum and people seem excited for it. So I'm guessing that is there target market. It's a shame though because, I always wanted a game with realistic physics and racing where you could mod your cars. The direction of Forza Motorsport changed when Horizon came out. I'm sure its the same game engine for both and maybe it isn't flexible enough for some realistic physics.
Would be a mistake trying to make a game for people who turn their nose up at the series, even if they did try to make it a sim, those players would be back on ACC or iR in a week. But personally I hope they drop some of the gimmicky FH stuff like themed racing suits. Although I'd love the option to create and share races like FH5, that's a game changer for the genre
This game has an all new engine compared to FH5, they both use photogramitry for asset creation but completely different way of using lighting and new physics engine. Apparently the old engine tires had one point of impact updating at 60hz and the new engine has eight points of contact updating at 360hz.
@@retrostansolo There's lot's of games that feature different elements. I could literally write a thesis on best practice and examples. But I'll save that for my consultancy work.
Like a lot of things now, the game looks like it was designed by committee. It’s being dumbed down. I’m sure it’ll be fun but it probably won’t be the ‘simulator’ it once was. That’s too niche an idea now 🤷🏻♂️ Love your analysis as always.
How hard can it be to remake FM4 with modern tech? Or is there somekind of hidden agenda at work here 🤔 totally lost with this team, its almost a government cover-up job, 5 years and still no idea how the real world works.
Jeez a bunch of people are all being super negative about this.... It's a literal teaser.... When have they ever gone on a serious in depth talk about handling in the past? Never.... They have always mentioned graphics first physics second. They have claimed they have re made the physics and tyre info/data 48 times more detailed than it has been before. Most of what they showed for a teaser is actually solid, dynamic time day night cycle. Cars in there that haven't been in the motorsport franchise before. Off track details like gravel and such look good, track surfaces look detailed. The rain looks pretty good definitely an improvement over 7. Sparks and things look cool, the lighting mainly on reflections looks cool, the only issue i have is the damage it's looked crap pretty much since forza has existed bumps and dents and scratches.... But i think they said before it's more down to licensing or something they couldn't pay for.... More like didn't want to pay for 😂 but other than that i am 80% happy what the smidge of what we have seen. When we get a more detailed look later on down the line we can judge whether it drives like they claim it does.
Great video Allen. Smells like Grid to me. Graphics seems to be the focus. I hope they toss us a demo like last time. I saved $65 thanks to that demo 👍🏾😄.
It's like turn10 aren't interested in winning actual fans of motorsport over at all, and definitely not trying to bring back old fans back either. There's nothing they've shown or said that warrants a reboot so far, just a bunch of fluff. Hopefully that'll change. Right now, i get the feeling this reboot will be nothing but a crafty marketing ploy, and what people are really getting is Forza 8.
I genuinely don't see what Forza is attempting to achieve with their wooden physics. Like its shocking how much of a pretend sim it is. You have in depth telementary data and tuning menus, yet the physics are completely out of whack. That kerb behaviour from the limited gameplay looks concerning... like it was almost regressing to FM5. This whole marketing of built from the ground up is nonsense. So many things now are superficial and are sugar coated with BS. Let the developers be transparent and speak directly to the community. I'm going to have to infer that Microsoft is to blame for this misdirection and they force Turn 10's hand to turn out subpar games because they want the game to live up to their expectations of using "advanced technology" for good PR. Take the ray tracing and stupid drivatar AI's for example. The game is built for Microsoft to look good, not to service its players. People say Project CARS series is dead because of PC3, but what series really needs to die is Forza Motorsport. It is not going to return to the X360 days. With Microsoft in charge, it can never be purposeful and focused on things that actually matter. The game series has run its course. Unfortunately there are so many casual gamers out there who are just going to continue prop up this series because "muh nice car and graphics".
as someone who plays FH5 more than any other racing game. I would much rather play a game with graphics such as rFactor 2 but it's handle or like ACC etc etc than whatever the hell FM7's handling is. If you want to make it arcady do FH5 physics, where it's not stupid like The Crew or Need for Speed, and is actually fun. Otherwise, make it properly Simy. FM7 is trying to be both and instead it's just fricken awful and just joyless to drive. It would be amazing if this new Forza Motorsport could be the ultimate sim of both simulation and graphics. Like they have had years to make this game, I'm sure by far the highest budget for any game of it's type. It has no excuse for not being amazing. Shame they are so anti modding too though. So I guess it can never really be top tier without that anyway.
I guess you'll have to wait until you get your hands on the game before you can make a final judgement. Until you get hands on, you won't be able to know if the game feels right or not.
@@TeamVVV Yeah, you did mention that briefly (almost in passing). But for the majority of the video it sounded like u were ready to throw the game in the trash/bin based on a sizzle reel trailer and a 5 minute walk through that barely touched on any gameplay features or anything outside of the new graphics technology they're using. I just didn't understand why u were going so hard on a game you haven't had the opportunity to try yet, and u barely have any information about 🤔.
@@lateesjp i do understand why: because as a Motorsport game and not a Horizon game they did really a poor job showing off the racing action or anything thats related to actual racing like an animated pit stop, people in the pit boxes running around or doing work on a car etc, onboard footage of racing action, some cool overtakes, slowmotion going over curbs, showing off suspension work and tyre deformation. thats what they should have used the gameplay video for. instead they chose to just show off the landscape, the rock details, falling leaves, how nice the water flows around the river bed stones, the quality of the gras behind the barrier and some cool looking cones, raytraced engine bays that you totally don't see when you are racing. now, dont get me wrong, this is all nice and good, but thats not why i buy a Forza Motorsport game. Thats maybe a factor why i pick up a Forza Horizon game.
@@th3orist Well hopefully over the next 8 or 9 months before the game releases they will go into more detail about the racing aspects of the game. I just didn't feel as strongly about it as you guys. To me they were clearly just focusing on graphics in the reveal, which is generally the initial WOW factor that people notice in new racing games. I don't think they wanted to cater the the hardcore sim audience on the initial reveal. Now if we get to October/November and they still haven't addressed these issues, then I'd be worried.
I can only make observations based on what is available. This didn't give us much to go on in this presentation and didn't impress for reasons highlighted. If you felt there were specific comments you disagreed with, please outline those and we can discuss.
This is not FM tbh i am very shocked on the map textures look like an xbox game not next gen, so gutted ! I got a day 1 series x wasted 2 years waiting for it, ray tracing its the tarmac textures thats been sucked out, reminds me from a racing game set in the 50s-60s. Love the points you are saying because racing games is all about details on and off the track, and has a driver 99% of the time all you will see in the gray flat tarmac and 1% kerbs but also look poor.
When was the last time you played FM4 with a wheel? I can guarantee you your remembering it with Rose tinted glasses because I still have it, and played it recently and it's absolute garbage compared to FM7 on the same wheel. We all know this is more of a tech/graphics showcase, let's wait a bit for all the juicy details
The game handled great at launch, however an update further down the line broke the handling. My memory is vague now but it had something to do with drifters wanting 900 degree steering, then it all went wrong.
@@TeamVVV the only thing that changed for wheel players in an update was when they removed the input glitch that was reducing input range when the car oversteered. It was a major issue and had to be fixed. If you relied on that bug to drive and feel that that bug made the game "great" I have no words....
Very well said. I would not expect anything less from a True Sim racer.. I'm afraid the real problem with Turn 10 is the feed back their fan base provides them.. During the development faze of Forza MS 2023, They used the Forza community from the TORA racing community. These are a group of guys that are already bias toward Forza MS7. Turn10 also has a Vocal fan base on TH-cam that fan boi for Graphics and push this strange nerative for Ray-Traycing. I guess The real head scratcher to me. I can't understand how a much smaller studio like Studio 397, Kunos or Even the old Slightly mad Studios form 2015 can make a much better baseline fundamental Sim racer with Far less resources.
Forza has always maintained a certain stylisic look that will never be mistaken for reality. I have followed Forza through the first and second Xbox consoles and have always yearned for it to achieve Gran Turismo's level of photorealism but it never did. With all the technology and power the Xbox Series X has it is now proven that it is not a hardware limitation that prevents Forza from looking photoreal. This is either intentional by developer Turn 10, or they need to hire a new creative director if they're aiming for photorealism.
Turn 10 are always dazzling us with statements about the evolution of the forza games. Those statements in general amount to nothing more than a marginal improvement that ultimately is a dissapointment. It's just marketing hype. For me forza motorsport is not a true racing games as the physics are unrealitic and wheel implimentation always seems to an after thought. Games like Granturismo took serious gamers and turned them into real race drivers. That has to be testiment to how good the granturismo games are.
This video should be forwarded to the Motorsport Devs! I seemed have agreed with everything said. With 9 more months of development time, hopefully majority of the points made will be taken into consideration.
I was also very underwhelmed, i literally yelled at the screen “why am I looking at a fair?” But if you look at the trailer using the downvote add on it has 30,000 likes and only 700 dislikes so people loved it. This reveal wasnt aimed at people who are fans of driving this was aimed at the general gaming public, we’ll need to wait for more details over the next few months for actual information
Tô be honest, Forza 4 was good, but after that there was too much talking and no showing. We’ll see. It appeal to current Forza players… the Forza Motorsport players are not the same anymore, most of them migrated to other series.
Jesus christ im not sure about this. Looks too much like forza 7. What did i buy a series x for? It seesm turn 10 are trying to turn this into forza horizon. I dont know whats going on here.
Forza design team is not good at all for fictional tracks, they always miss something, breaking markers, lines, real sponsors, I mean realistic wise, none stood up in my opinion. maybe fujimi kaido, and Im not even sure.
These games are meant to played on a console with a controller, that comes first, its not iracing or asseto corsa. And them pushing the envelope on visuals is a bad thing, make your mind up you said it doesnt look like a Forza game, then 8 mins in you said it looks like a Forza game, make your mind up.
It's meant to be played with a controller or wheel. Yep, it's like we expect Forza 8 to be, I guess after 5 years and a full brand reset I expected better. If you are happy with it, and the issues highlighted don't affect you, good for you.
@@TeamVVV how can you say its has issues when you have not even played the game yet? dont forget Forza was not made with force feedback as a priority. if you dont like the feel of a game play another there are plenty of racing games/sims. just wondering do you use normal or Simulation steering in Forza games?
@@TeamVVV I'll reserve my criticism for the final ”full” simulation/game is out. Then I'll have an idea of what I'm actually talking about. For now I will just leave it at, it looks like the most technically advanced game I have ever seen. I'm talking about hands-on experience not just speculation.
@@TeamVVV It's not a personal attack. I'm just pointng out the errors in your video. All issues you stated are incorrect and false. Motorsports 8 when it comes out as advertised will be the best looking racing game ever. And do realize we're talking about developer Turn 10 studios.
You forgot to say at the beginning "PAID FOR BY PLAYSTATION AND GT7" they showed less and lied about raytracing. The graphics look like 2017. But you praised it. You are no longer credible.
my opinion don’t mean nothing to turn 10 studios better yet Microsoft! Forza has been the dominated platform for gamers for a long time now! Numbers don’t lie! That’s the only opinion they care for! Simcade is the money maker!!! You want simulation get a PC and a rig!!! 😂 turn 10 have a winning formula for the Forza series and that won’t change if the numbers don’t!!!! Let’s all Cheer for another groundbreaking Forza edition!!! Simulation haters/crowd moving it along and get lost!!!
I burst out laughing when you said “and now back to this irrelevant river”. You are spot on with this “review”. They said/showed nothing in regards to what simulation fans want to know about the game. Foliage and water are not what we are looking for despite how great it looks. Let’s hope they refocus their efforts on the game and not just making it look good. To me that’s what Forza Horizon is for!
Forza isn't a sim, its a simcade. Plus, they confirmed tyre compounds, fuel, track temps changes, all good things for the more sim preferring racer. It wasn't bad for a reveal imo
@@battfinkz Only players say its simcade that have no clue how complex the Forza physics engine is even since FM2. Saying that its arcade or simcade is disrespecting the work the devs put into the game in my oppinion. Simcade does only exist in some gamer heads. :P
@@tonitornado69 don't be daft, it's simcade through and through. Race me, you on a wheel and me on controller, I'll win every time, its absolutely set up to appeal to the masses using a controller, with the driving aids clearly built into the controller use, even with all assists turned off. I have tested this on both for countless hours, against my own times with both wheel and controller. Not only that but it has next to no proper sim aspects or race options to create a real, life like race/ series. It's simcade 100%
Also I am not disrespecting anything, this is the devs clear vision for Forza, they have never committed to making it as sim as possible, they have always clearly told us that the game is to appeal to all as a balanced title. I also love Forza and enjoy it for what it is, have done since FM1 came out for the og xbox, but its a simcade at best
@@battfinkz You should look at Twitch Kutu182 and his VoD when he was driving iRacing with PS4 pad because of back pain issues so he could not use his wheel. Its a VoD from last year and called "PS4 Controller: Porsche GTE at Nordschleife" Also in Assetto Corsa many people on pad drove in the top 10 of the leaderboards. So what i want to say is that it doesnt matter what input device it matters how good its implemented and if the players has every needed options for it.
@@tonitornado69 if forza is a simulator it's a pretty poor one
I think this presentation was designed to get the most positive impact from a casual fan base to think woow that looks cool, especially as it's a big gaming showcase not focused on just core Forza fans.
I'm sure over time as they show the game off just to Forza fans, that the presentation will be a lot more focused on what the core Motorsport fan base will want to see.
But they have a game for those people already, called Forza Horizon 5. That’s the problem with Xbox studios, they just don’t understand what racing fans want.
@@bfcricky But you have to remember that the percentage of people that thinks like Alan is very very small. Even the core Motorsport fan base wouldn't think as deep as what was discussed in this video. So although they could have shown more in terms of suspension models etc, it's not the main purpose of this showcase. There is a lot of time before release for them to do that.
The team also knows that the hardcore fans are not going to just give up on the series just because they didn't see everything they wanted to in this first video. We will read every article they release and watch every video they show. A less hardcore fan might see a serious presentation and make an inaccurate immediate judgement that this doesn't look fun.
IMO this showcase did what it was supposed to and had just enough information to intrigue my interest for the deeper simulation models, day night cycle impacts, tyre wear etc which we will learn in more detail over time.
@@bfcricky But they probably do understand that no matter what they give fans, they will find something wrong.
@@Shift4g yeah... but my point has always been you have your nfs type game... so let motorsport be .... motorsport....
for all the 'forza was never a sim' people.... the loading screen from FM1.... if you played it, you know.....
I agree with you, somethings off here.
It did it for me it looks bloody great
Absolutely, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
It looks like forza horizon 5 physics on realistic tracks
Love the detailed thoughts as always!
They can't have a trailer made for vehicle dynamics enthusiasts at a big Microsoft Bethesda summer even showcase. For that, the trailer made total sense imo. However, they had this second "extended showcase" event, which would have been the perfect place to get more into detail... and they didn't. And it is because there isn't much actually. I too was hoping for a big physics overhaul, but - as some Forza fan pointed out on GamerMuscle's trailer opinions - the "48x higher fidelity" number comes together as this: the XBO generation Forza games updated the track-to-tire interaction/scan part of the physics engine at 60fps, which they bumped to 360fps (same as the rest of their physics engine), which is a factor of 6x, and they also now have 8 contact points per tire instead of just one - 6x8=48. Thinking back of how going from 1 to 5 contact points changed the handling in ACC, that made the car behave much more natural over bumps and curbs, but it didn't change the driving feel. So, in my book, that doesn't add to the "fidelity". And all of this means, the physics model is still the same, they mostly added stuff onto it. Really was hoping they'd go back to the drawing board for some parts of their physics in this comparitively looong break by FM standards.
If anyone truly cared about FM, they could have just watched Forza monthly and heard more details about the gameplay.
Your review is exactly how I feel. Obviously the graphics will improve with a far more powerful system. Didn't learn anything important.
As a FM veteran i am addicted to FM7 but also never felt quite right. Constant tweaking of wheel settings (i play with csl elite) but FINALLY found a perfect mix of settings! Perfect roadfeel, perfect rotation and forces and now i cant wait to get my hand on the 8th iteration! Specially after the slight disappointment of GT7
well dont keep the settings to yourself!
I’ve got close but nothing like assetto corsa
@10:30 I'm glad im not the only one annoyed that the track looks to clean!
Spot on, Alan! I've always said they ruined the handling after FM4 and have personally likened 5-onwards to driving a car with wooden wheels and milk bottle tops for brakes. And agreed, all this graphics nonsense wasted on rivers and engine bays which you'll never see whilst playing. Changing handling for the better is what Forza's been crying out for for ages!
Fucking this!! I absolutely hate how most racing cars slide around corners constantly like they're on ice or something!! Shit is annoying! It's like they punish you for accelerating in general!
IMO, For this game to succeed, they would add things like:
1. Actual Racing Rules & flags to penalize shit drivers.
2. AI opponents who don't rely on rubberbanding and bullshit advantages to get ahead. They need to race clean as well. I'm tired of getting rammed in the middle of a corner because some AI Dipshit doesn't see you there!
3. Updated Steering Animations in the cockpit view. Also, a way to adjust your seating position and FOV.
4. Actual pit animations and manual pit strategies. I saw a pit crew in the gameplay demo but only time will tell if they add it in or not(FM7 has pit crews in the trailers but never in the game itself)
5. Safety cars because why not add another random factor that would make racing more immersive??
6. A safety rating system for online races so shitty rammers can wreck amongst themselves and the cleaner drivers can move up away from them. Also penalties would do wonders.
7. Wayy more tracks at launch and DLC Tracks after the fact. We will pay for new tracks so make them and charge a fair price dammit!!
8. A community storefront that's easy to get to and easy to navigate.
9. A much better UI. The UI in FM7 was pretty shit and needs a major overhaul.
10. Drafting and Tire Wear need to be increased ten fold since they are borderline useless in FM7 most times.
They really didn't say anything we didn't already know then the second reveal once again they didn't tell us anything they told us a few days ago they seemed more focused on talking about graphics and when asked about damage he just spoke about scratches telling a story i really want this to be amazing but I'm starting to doubt it they have also just stated the footage we saw was pc not series x apparently a "mistake"
Exactly this - been waiting/anticipating this title for so long that smoke and mirrors just won't cut it.
@@gregbest90 yeah mate I went on the forza website and they have put that the footage shown was on pc not xbox like we was led to belive
Ac is improving and so isn't project cars, Forza will be a laughing stock if graphics are the only improvements. I'm starting to want to get gt7 and ac and a racing setup.
It almost feels like they cared more about that river than the driving... They should just make a boating game at this point...
Funny you mentioned Forza Motorsport 3 because I feel like that was the best Forza ever released. The handling felt right, the menus, the tracks... In general it felt like a great solid game built for people who like racing cars.
Forza Motorsport 5 was indeed the downfall of the series which coincides with Microsoft using them as the console's abilities showcase.
Speaking of Motorsport 5, there's a very interesting case regarding Horizon 2. Horizon 2 on 360 is using the FM4/3 physics while on XBone it is using the FM5 physics and hands down H2 plays better on 360 from a driving standpoint. Less gimicky, just pure fun!
Forza Motorsport became a game for gamers, I guess you could say, not a game for drivers. It's a game where you get to know its gimmick and live with it, from the silly tuning exploits to the driving it just feels needlessly gimicky for people who like hard games.
Like you said, hopefully this is the best racing game ever and we're all wrong, but I'm not hopeful.
I think we should wait and see what it actually plays like when we get our hands on it instead of guessing and thinking we all know exactly how it plays by looking at a showcase demo.
Don't forget this isn't the final product.
I appreciate your integrity...unfortunately people like this trash games before they even release...full of shit reviews...and so disingenuous because these same people will turn around and say that Gran Turismo 7 is better than Forza...ive already seen comments that say GT7 is better than Forza Motorsport....just sad and pathetic.
@@dionlandon479 The only thing T10 needs to borrow from PD these days is the mp. Personally I wish they would borrow from PC 1 - 2. A simcade with a similar presentation BUT a huge car list would be amazing imo.
It looks interesting however the flatness, unrealistic overuse of trees and bloom effects all reek of Horizon copy and paste...
Dan Greenawalt personifies marketing spin - no substance.
I was a very pretty wee river, that when one is driving, it will be completely irrelevant. It was definitely lacking something but I just can't put my finger on it.
Didn't do it for me either. I think it's clear at this point they have no interest in using Motorsport to cater to racing sim fans. It's just Forza Horizon on race tracks.
Also, Maple Valley is a fictional course, lol
Yep, great course, done many laps here.
@@TeamVVV I only mentioned that because of the way you were picking apart the lack of realism in the course design. I think if they showed a real life track and it had all those issues you pointed out, then it would be a fair gripe. But for a fictional track I don't think most people notice those issues.
Yes, sad they didn't show a real life track.
You know, I saw the title and was ready to call you a grumpy old man Alan! However, I found myself agreeing with you on every single point you made. Very good video.
Good review and feedback for their team. With 9 months to go there's plenty of time for these points to be polished hopefully.
I agree the trailer was very action. As for the presentation they simply wanted to fire at Sony since GT7 environment look bad.
Actually gran turismo 7 environment look good on ps5 it has balanced environment and improved over gran turismo sport not sure about PS4 Pro version
Odd thing to notice about the circuit footage; why are there flashes going off in the crowd? I get it is supposed to indicate people taking pictures, but everyone just uses their smartphone of choice to take the pictures these days, and the flashes on those never come on when there is light like this as they are useless.
Spot on! But all has yet to be seen at the end of the day. Still hopes :P
Forza Motorsports was always fairly arcadey, but since we have Forza Horizon, I was hoping that FM could mature and shift more towards real racing game modes (practice, quali, race) and more detailed and realistic physics.
as long as they focus on controller we will never get properly engaging and realistic physics. thats why sims have poor controller support, each games physics is designed around its input device. just so happens that the input device of a wheel is 100% accurate to real life
Forza 4 was the last Turn 10 game I played. Their are SO many better racing titles to spend money on. Sim racers don't even pay attention to Forza.
Exactly, y’all stay over there!!! Since Forza 1 it has been marketed as simcade not simulation! Is to Fking boring and difficult! Forza is was always meant for the casual gamer or serious gamers that just want to have fun!
I'm very late to this video, but the gameplay demo video is extremely compressed, it's not the best idea to judge the tarmac detail when you can't make out what's actually there.
Also, with the lighting looking kinda flat, that's an inherant limitation of realtime lighting. It's a tradeoff, it could be hyperrealistic with perfect ambient lighting, but it would all have to be precalculated with no dynamic time of day. Let's wait and see what it looks like when they go into more detail, or when they show off real tracks.
To be clear. I think the criticism is fair, they didn't do a great job of showing it off. I just thought I'd explain why I think some stuff is the way that it is.
I've seen a 4K presentation, made no difference in detail perception. The texture work behind the realism expected, just isn't there.
Lighting is an artistic approach, not a technical limitation. Suffice to say, if this is the best they had available, it doesn't bode well.
@@TeamVVV 4k or not, the bitrate and compression is terrible, nothing to do with resolution.
As for the lighting, it shows all the inheritant limitations of realtime lighting, the GI is lacking which gives it the very flat look. If you're criticising something else I might be wrong, but if its what I think it is then it's not artistic.
Agree for the most, accept for the fact that I think turn10 physics didn’t start to feel lacking until Forza 6. I felt 5 was a nice improvement over 4 in physics department, the problem was that was the only improvement over 4. Both gt and forza both feel a bit stale as of late, hopefully the rebranding back to just forza Motorsport means back to form.
Sure, regarding FM5 the physics failing wasn't an opinion, it was a provable fact. Went through it all in detail at the time and shared my findings in various videos, the beginning of a downhill slope.
@@TeamVVV perhaps I need to reply 4 and 5 to be sure I’m remembering things correctly, it’s been some time. I also feel like the sense of speed has disappeared since 4
I had the exact same feelings watching the reveal
There are a lot of new and old sim games but till date no one has improved on the tyre feeling of rfactor 2 which is baffling. It seems that developers nowadays are more interested in making money rather than getting it right.
If you want to discuss this, or any other video live with me. Follow me on Twitch and you can catch me on stream. www.twitch.tv/teamvvv
I was hoping for a more realistic campaign progression. I hated the cards and the random bonuses to win a car. Let me start with a cheap everyday car and work my way up the ranks like FM2.
This presentation was aimed at the casual gamer, that's for sure. Does it mean the handling will be arcadeish? No, but it really doesn't bode well. About Mapple Valley tricky last corner: it couldn't look tricky on the video because strangely, the cars were slow, I noticed that by the velocimeter.
Aw man, we are never getting another Racing Sim on Xbox.
Was massively into FM2 and FM4, especially online. Super competitive and the peak of FM, and its community.
Since then, the series has gone downhill, the community are mostly a cult following, any negativity on the official forums end in user bans.
Fortunately I've got a proper sim rig, and proper sim titles, so FM isnt needed anymore.
I agree with Alan. I'm not wowed by this new Forza Motorsport at all. I feel like I've seen it all before. Footage of rivers etc doesn't mean anything because you won't see it when you're driving. The car damage looks really poor. The car hit the wall flush and the car stays intact??? Burnout Revenge has better damage visuals. Forza 4 looked better for it's time than this. That game was polished. I haven't seen anything to make me buy an Xbox console post the 360. This is a Con.
Some car manufacturers won't let games show their cars with bits falling off as they think it'll impact sales lol. So these days scratches on the paint are as good as it gets sadly.
@@GethAndroid I hate to break it to those manufacturers but most of us were never going to buy a Ford GT or Koenigsegg anyway. Just let us have fun.
The river part was just a cut scene 😒
This was going to be the game that made me buy a xboxx, its too much Horizon for me, all fairgrounds and fireworks rather than racing. Initially disappointing.
Preach brother preach! couldn't agree more, I really hope we are wrong but it looks like more of the same
The chase cam is terrible,u cant See the front tires, even when turn.
But we can’t conclude yet, the game is still in the development.
Yep, no final conclusions made in this video. Let's hope the game reaches its potential.
Yes fully agree Alan. 👍 also the pitlane looks lifeless yet again weres all the pit crew??
To me it looks like they are going for grid legends gfx style than realistic. Though they said there will be race weekends, like practice, quali, race so may be like Pcars.
Yeah , you have put your finger on it , when I watched it , I didn’t know what to feel , my heart wanted to scream in jubilation, but something held me back
I was also very confused when I watched this trailer. It is as if they are just showing of their graphics engine. And while it is very impressive, you are right that it isn't always very realistic, so what even is the point? They seem to have forgotten that it is a GAME they're marketing...
Forza Motorsport is more niche then you might think so they were actually marketing the engine here not the game
Forza has always just been a drift game to me. The grip racing never feels good enough. It always feels like the game is punishing you for accelerating. I wish it would go back to FM1/2. Then again I only like those games because they were clearly just aping Gran Turismos bit. Part of me thinks Microsoft thinks GT is boring because the cars grip, so they overcompensate by making everything slidy and exciting maybe
Yup! This right here!! Its like the cars have an annoying tendency to slide constantly when your accelerating! Even if you properly input the throttle via a controller! What is wrong with a car having realistic grip???
100% agreed Alan. I’m a sim racer. Been fortunate enough to drive a few Ferrari’s. It just seems after it’s peak of Motorsport 6. 7 was awful. Wrong direction. It seems like Horizon has influenced it badly.
I agree that the trailers and showcase didn't show much. But I'm keen to see how this next-gen Forza fares against GT7. Hopefully the spring 2023 release could make all things right.
The majority will like it for the visuals being similar to forza horizon. It’s only the hardcore that want an actual Motorsport game that will complain, wfh but will probably be the minority.
The problem i have with the short trailer as well as with the gameplay video is that this game was supposed to be a reboot of the series right? Thats what they said when it was announced like two years ago and thats what they claimed now. But neither the snippets trailer nor the gameplay video did or showed anything that would highlight this. I did not see anything that has anything to do with a reboot. Go watch previous trailers and gameplay videos and this is exactly the same direction or stuff we got to see now. Where is the reboot here, where the novelty or change in the series philosophy? Its not there based on what they showed. If it was there, i am sure they would not hide it.
I am yet to see something that justifies them taking a 5 year long break from the series.
What has been shown until now could've been as well Forza Motorsport 8 that released in 2019 on their usual 2 year schedule.
How would you compare this to gran turismo 7 another sim/console racer?
What worries me is, the game is 4 months from the Blu-Ray mass duplication retail process and there is almost no proper gameplay footage. This stuff was in-engine and shown on PC. I wasn't worried about what I saw, because it was "produced" to look how it did. But I was more concerned about the fact that it wasn't an actual replay of Series X code running natively on the console. There is precious little time left, and precious little "real game" stuff in the public eye. The game has been in development since 2019.
I'm also not interested in seeing my ray-traced car reflected onto the rear bumper of the car in front of me as I approach to overtake it. It's a replay eye-candy feature that's wasted in my mind. Even GT7 has screwed it's own gameplay due to OTT graphics settings, which means it cannot stay smooth whilst you're driving. Completely ruined GT7 for me. I'm quietly confident that Turn 10 will stick rigidly to "frame time" limits and a locked 60fps at all times. But I'd rather all the XB hardware be involved in creating as deep a game as possible where it counts. Car reflections as you pass a car are barely visible and a wasted in my mind. I'd rather have an extra 4 AI cars on track racing than have RT reflections. I want more detail on the track surface, not RT reflections. As you say Alan, something is going to have to give to make RT possible. All those highly detailed engine bays, and yet when we race on track they are under covers.
I hope Turn 10 throw details down our throats every month for 4 months solid now, time is running out. I'm dreading them announcing a move to a Christmas launch, but with so little on display for us - what else do they expect some of us to think.
We learned nothing really if importance really. The emphasis on graphics does kind of make sense at a general public expo, but lack of real details on gameplay, physics, and even FFB is concerning. They have a chance to actually compete with Gran turisimo if the racing becomes the focus and they nail the gameplay, I enjoyed FH5, especially with the improved FFB, but that would be a bad direction to take FM8.
I do not think I have ever heard you sound this grumpy.
Personally I do not want another Assetto Corsa or Project CARS. I want Forza, a game that plays perfectly on a controller. And I completely do not understand the need for a game to look "real". If I want reality, I go outside.
Forza Motorsport has never been a true sim, and hopefully it never will be. It has its own unique take on motorsport. And while the Xbox One games have been somewhat disappointing, they still delivered hundreds of hours of awesome gameplay.
I agree with you on the car handling. Playing on a wheel had no feel whatsoever so I hope that’s addressed with this one. I do think you need to go to specsavers tho with regards to the graphics. This is head and shoulders above anything currently available and that includes GT7 which is still stuck in last gen and looked nothing like their initial reveal trailer.
T10 can't win, when they had some overcast weather in FM7 it was dull. Hopefully now we can change this like a PC2, the argument can be put to bed.
Trailer didn't wow me either. But at the end of the day its just a trailer so I hope to learn more as we get closer to the game's release. But very little shown seemed to have a purpose. The BMW cruising through the last corner behind the Ferrari was a missed opportunity. Rather than cruise through at 110mph they could have shown it hunting down the Ferrari at higher speed on the edge of grip; zooming in on the car from side-on in slow motion to show the suspension travel and the car bottoming out before resuming the chase down the straight to show the slipstream effect and the two cars fighting side by side into turn 1. That would have captured the essence of Forza Motorsport much better.
I think there still need to be done on the game that's why they didn't tell and show everything on the showcase
There will be more to come as they said, but im excited nontheless for this game
Just clicked to watch the video and even without watching it i agree already with the title.
After i have watched the video edit: I went and took a look at the official GT7 trailer, it's 3minutes something long and they did a way better job showing more of the driving and what the game will be about than Forza Motorsport did in over 6-7 minutes if you combine both trailers. GT7 tried to show off menus, campaign, some proper driving, there was no showing of how nice the environment looks other than what you could see from the replay cam that was actually focused on the cars. For all the faults of GT7 but that trailer back then gave me more information than this here.
I agree with everything that was said in this video and i am highly sceptical about this game, as i was with Forza 6 and 7 after that awful 5 - and those games were indeed just what i expected. They were underwhelming at best.
Now, don't get me wrong, i don't expect GT or Forza to feel as good as iRacing, ACC etc, but i do expect them to feel like they at least tried to make it a simulator and not simply a graphical showcase.
Yes i appreciate good graphics even in sims but i end up having more fun in iRacing on tracks that have cardboard trees simply because the racing action and driving feel is superb, the moment-to-moment driving experience delivers. Sure, bring on the theme parcs and the fireworks and goofy voices and festivals and whatnot, but just not when you are trying to make a serious motorsport game. Leave all that to Forza Horizon, they make a way better job with this and embed it in the game's philosophy so that it just works. But from Motorsport i expect something completely different.
And yes, the colors look way too cartoony and at the same time there is a washed out feel about them too.
Agree with this and also I think turn 10 has still more to learn on pd. Fans want to know what will be the content of the game but instead what they show is the graphics fans like content not quality actually when they show the gameplay and trailer I was amazed but now after reading this comment I'm having doubts for this game
The only thing I really took from it was:
“ooo look how pretty our game looks because that’s about all the fuck we have to offer as we don’t actually understand how racing works. Pitlane you say, tyre model you say… what’s that ?, I think you mean that our game now has night and day, track conditions, time of day change, gravel. Oh look our cars… take damage, but we don’t know what you mean when you say the track surface looks extremely flat, clean and unused, our cars unrealistically understeer absolutely everywhere and our tyres don’t actually wear, switch on, get second wind or tac up they simply just… exist. But hey why don’t we check in with Dan who’s blazing past that river with a wild otter Otter floating through the water”
From a sim racers perspective I think this game isn't for us. I was on some general gaming forum and people seem excited for it. So I'm guessing that is there target market. It's a shame though because, I always wanted a game with realistic physics and racing where you could mod your cars. The direction of Forza Motorsport changed when Horizon came out. I'm sure its the same game engine for both and maybe it isn't flexible enough for some realistic physics.
Would be a mistake trying to make a game for people who turn their nose up at the series, even if they did try to make it a sim, those players would be back on ACC or iR in a week. But personally I hope they drop some of the gimmicky FH stuff like themed racing suits. Although I'd love the option to create and share races like FH5, that's a game changer for the genre
This game has an all new engine compared to FH5, they both use photogramitry for asset creation but completely different way of using lighting and new physics engine. Apparently the old engine tires had one point of impact updating at 60hz and the new engine has eight points of contact updating at 360hz.
I'll happily keep with the new F1 game and project cars 2
Всё сказано очень точно, прямо как и есть на самом деле
Allen, what do you want from Forza Motorsport?
An authentic racing experience, that captures, the energy, action and adrenalin of real motorsport.
@@TeamVVV What racing game gives you that that's out there now?
@@retrostansolo There's lot's of games that feature different elements. I could literally write a thesis on best practice and examples. But I'll save that for my consultancy work.
@@retrostansolo look at project cars 2, assetto corsa.
Like a lot of things now, the game looks like it was designed by committee. It’s being dumbed down.
I’m sure it’ll be fun but it probably won’t be the ‘simulator’ it once was. That’s too niche an idea now 🤷🏻♂️
Love your analysis as always.
How hard can it be to remake FM4 with modern tech? Or is there somekind of hidden agenda at work here 🤔 totally lost with this team, its almost a government cover-up job, 5 years and still no idea how the real world works.
Good analysis. Felt pretty similar. It does look very cartoony, the lighting is just not realistic at all.
This is more so a simulation than a game at this point. In regards to physics, the jump from the previous game to this is astronomical.
Jeez a bunch of people are all being super negative about this.... It's a literal teaser.... When have they ever gone on a serious in depth talk about handling in the past? Never.... They have always mentioned graphics first physics second. They have claimed they have re made the physics and tyre info/data 48 times more detailed than it has been before. Most of what they showed for a teaser is actually solid, dynamic time day night cycle. Cars in there that haven't been in the motorsport franchise before. Off track details like gravel and such look good, track surfaces look detailed. The rain looks pretty good definitely an improvement over 7. Sparks and things look cool, the lighting mainly on reflections looks cool, the only issue i have is the damage it's looked crap pretty much since forza has existed bumps and dents and scratches.... But i think they said before it's more down to licensing or something they couldn't pay for.... More like didn't want to pay for 😂 but other than that i am 80% happy what the smidge of what we have seen. When we get a more detailed look later on down the line we can judge whether it drives like they claim it does.
Hey Allan 👋 its Wayne from primary school.
Best to lower expectations.
It looks to me like motorsport by name, Horizon by nature.
Wayne, good to see you here!
Great video Allen. Smells like Grid to me. Graphics seems to be the focus. I hope they toss us a demo like last time. I saved $65 thanks to that demo 👍🏾😄.
It's like turn10 aren't interested in winning actual fans of motorsport over at all, and definitely not trying to bring back old fans back either. There's nothing they've shown or said that warrants a reboot so far, just a bunch of fluff. Hopefully that'll change.
Right now, i get the feeling this reboot will be nothing but a crafty marketing ploy, and what people are really getting is Forza 8.
I genuinely don't see what Forza is attempting to achieve with their wooden physics. Like its shocking how much of a pretend sim it is. You have in depth telementary data and tuning menus, yet the physics are completely out of whack. That kerb behaviour from the limited gameplay looks concerning... like it was almost regressing to FM5.
This whole marketing of built from the ground up is nonsense. So many things now are superficial and are sugar coated with BS. Let the developers be transparent and speak directly to the community.
I'm going to have to infer that Microsoft is to blame for this misdirection and they force Turn 10's hand to turn out subpar games because they want the game to live up to their expectations of using "advanced technology" for good PR. Take the ray tracing and stupid drivatar AI's for example. The game is built for Microsoft to look good, not to service its players.
People say Project CARS series is dead because of PC3, but what series really needs to die is Forza Motorsport. It is not going to return to the X360 days. With Microsoft in charge, it can never be purposeful and focused on things that actually matter. The game series has run its course.
Unfortunately there are so many casual gamers out there who are just going to continue prop up this series because "muh nice car and graphics".
as someone who plays FH5 more than any other racing game. I would much rather play a game with graphics such as rFactor 2 but it's handle or like ACC etc etc than whatever the hell FM7's handling is.
If you want to make it arcady do FH5 physics, where it's not stupid like The Crew or Need for Speed, and is actually fun. Otherwise, make it properly Simy. FM7 is trying to be both and instead it's just fricken awful and just joyless to drive.
It would be amazing if this new Forza Motorsport could be the ultimate sim of both simulation and graphics. Like they have had years to make this game, I'm sure by far the highest budget for any game of it's type. It has no excuse for not being amazing.
Shame they are so anti modding too though. So I guess it can never really be top tier without that anyway.
I guess you'll have to wait until you get your hands on the game before you can make a final judgement. Until you get hands on, you won't be able to know if the game feels right or not.
That's what it says in the video.
@@TeamVVV Yeah, you did mention that briefly (almost in passing). But for the majority of the video it sounded like u were ready to throw the game in the trash/bin based on a sizzle reel trailer and a 5 minute walk through that barely touched on any gameplay features or anything outside of the new graphics technology they're using. I just didn't understand why u were going so hard on a game you haven't had the opportunity to try yet, and u barely have any information about 🤔.
@@lateesjp i do understand why: because as a Motorsport game and not a Horizon game they did really a poor job showing off the racing action or anything thats related to actual racing like an animated pit stop, people in the pit boxes running around or doing work on a car etc, onboard footage of racing action, some cool overtakes, slowmotion going over curbs, showing off suspension work and tyre deformation. thats what they should have used the gameplay video for.
instead they chose to just show off the landscape, the rock details, falling leaves, how nice the water flows around the river bed stones, the quality of the gras behind the barrier and some cool looking cones, raytraced engine bays that you totally don't see when you are racing.
now, dont get me wrong, this is all nice and good, but thats not why i buy a Forza Motorsport game. Thats maybe a factor why i pick up a Forza Horizon game.
@@th3orist Well hopefully over the next 8 or 9 months before the game releases they will go into more detail about the racing aspects of the game. I just didn't feel as strongly about it as you guys. To me they were clearly just focusing on graphics in the reveal, which is generally the initial WOW factor that people notice in new racing games. I don't think they wanted to cater the the hardcore sim audience on the initial reveal. Now if we get to October/November and they still haven't addressed these issues, then I'd be worried.
I can only make observations based on what is available. This didn't give us much to go on in this presentation and didn't impress for reasons highlighted. If you felt there were specific comments you disagreed with, please outline those and we can discuss.
This is not FM tbh i am very shocked on the map textures look like an xbox game not next gen, so gutted !
I got a day 1 series x wasted 2 years waiting for it, ray tracing its the tarmac textures thats been sucked out, reminds me from a racing game set in the 50s-60s.
Love the points you are saying because racing games is all about details on and off the track, and has a driver 99% of the time all you will see in the gray flat tarmac and 1% kerbs but also look poor.
When was the last time you played FM4 with a wheel? I can guarantee you your remembering it with Rose tinted glasses because I still have it, and played it recently and it's absolute garbage compared to FM7 on the same wheel.
We all know this is more of a tech/graphics showcase, let's wait a bit for all the juicy details
The game handled great at launch, however an update further down the line broke the handling. My memory is vague now but it had something to do with drifters wanting 900 degree steering, then it all went wrong.
Worth deleting the cache on the game, playing offline and then trying it. That way you'll be able to play the original build.
@@TeamVVV the only thing that changed for wheel players in an update was when they removed the input glitch that was reducing input range when the car oversteered. It was a major issue and had to be fixed. If you relied on that bug to drive and feel that that bug made the game "great" I have no words....
I never platyed any Forza with a wheel before 7, were they even worse then, because 7 just did not feel right with a wheel. great with a pad though!
@@FenderUsa 100% any forza game before fm7 was rubbish on wheel, much worse FFB and latency issues
Very well said. I would not expect anything less from a True Sim racer.. I'm afraid the real problem with Turn 10 is the feed back their fan base provides them.. During the development faze of Forza MS 2023, They used the Forza community from the TORA racing community. These are a group of guys that are already bias toward Forza MS7. Turn10 also has a Vocal fan base on TH-cam that fan boi for Graphics and push this strange nerative for Ray-Traycing.
I guess The real head scratcher to me. I can't understand how a much smaller studio like Studio 397, Kunos or Even the old Slightly mad Studios form 2015 can make a much better baseline fundamental Sim racer with Far less resources.
Forza has always maintained a certain stylisic look that will never be mistaken for reality. I have followed Forza through the first and second Xbox consoles and have always yearned for it to achieve Gran Turismo's level of photorealism but it never did. With all the technology and power the Xbox Series X has it is now proven that it is not a hardware limitation that prevents Forza from looking photoreal. This is either intentional by developer Turn 10, or they need to hire a new creative director if they're aiming for photorealism.
Turn 10 are always dazzling us with statements about the evolution of the forza games. Those statements in general amount to nothing more than a marginal improvement that ultimately is a dissapointment. It's just marketing hype. For me forza motorsport is not a true racing games as the physics are unrealitic and wheel implimentation always seems to an after thought. Games like Granturismo took serious gamers and turned them into real race drivers. That has to be testiment to how good the granturismo games are.
Ha ha gt sucks worst game they have made
This video should be forwarded to the Motorsport Devs! I seemed have agreed with everything said. With 9 more months of development time, hopefully majority of the points made will be taken into consideration.
Only have ps5 anyway so il stick with gt7 f1 assetto corsa
Codemasters f1 visually similar to forza motorsport..gt7 not perfect but looks more real
way too early to tell yet
I was also very underwhelmed, i literally yelled at the screen “why am I looking at a fair?” But if you look at the trailer using the downvote add on it has 30,000 likes and only 700 dislikes so people loved it.
This reveal wasnt aimed at people who are fans of driving this was aimed at the general gaming public, we’ll need to wait for more details over the next few months for actual information
Tô be honest, Forza 4 was good, but after that there was too much talking and no showing. We’ll see.
It appeal to current Forza players… the Forza Motorsport players are not the same anymore, most of them migrated to other series.
i bought every forza from 4 and tbh this time I will only try it on gamepass, zero new ideas.
I hope they don’t cater for the FH fan base trying to bring them over to FM… silly driver customisation and all that rubbish
Forza never ran the franchise as a simulation game!!!
Looks pretty, but you want a proper sim experience, you will not find it on console. Period
Agreed. It’s been edging closer and closer to horizon for my liking and this looks like it’s not changing that
Jesus christ im not sure about this. Looks too much like forza 7. What did i buy a series x for? It seesm turn 10 are trying to turn this into forza horizon. I dont know whats going on here.
@teamvvv let’s see you make a game then
Would love to, to be in a position to create games of this size and scale is a wonderful privilege, the pay packet to match.
They did show a bunch of nothing.
Those are 3D trees in Forza Motorsport 8.
I guess this guy preferred the cardboard cutout trees of Gran Turismo sport.
I prefer whatever trees that integrate into the scene while maintaining a high frame rate and optimised visuals.
Forza franchise lately been nothing but disappointment for me
Forza design team is not good at all for fictional tracks, they always miss something, breaking markers, lines, real sponsors, I mean realistic wise, none stood up in my opinion. maybe fujimi kaido, and Im not even sure.
These games are meant to played on a console with a controller, that comes first, its not iracing or asseto corsa. And them pushing the envelope on visuals is a bad thing, make your mind up you said it doesnt look like a Forza game, then 8 mins in you said it looks like a Forza game, make your mind up.
It's meant to be played with a controller or wheel. Yep, it's like we expect Forza 8 to be, I guess after 5 years and a full brand reset I expected better. If you are happy with it, and the issues highlighted don't affect you, good for you.
@@TeamVVV how can you say its has issues when you have not even played the game yet? dont forget Forza was not made with force feedback as a priority. if you dont like the feel of a game play another there are plenty of racing games/sims. just wondering do you use normal or Simulation steering in Forza games?
I watched the entire video and there's points were his guy is talking out both sides of his face and neck...😤 16:45
Ok so rather than just bash me personally, let's discuss those points. Can you detail them?
@@TeamVVV I'll reserve my criticism for the final ”full” simulation/game is out.
Then I'll have an idea of what I'm actually talking about.
For now I will just leave it at, it looks like the most technically advanced game I have ever seen.
I'm talking about hands-on experience not just speculation.
So, you attack me personally, then don't back that up by discussing the points made in the video you disagree with.
@@TeamVVV
It's not a personal attack.
I'm just pointng out the errors in your video.
All issues you stated are incorrect and false. Motorsports 8 when it comes out as advertised will be the best looking racing game ever.
And do realize we're talking about developer Turn 10 studios.
no matter what happens, im hyped especially after the GT7 bullshit, even in BETA fm would still kick GT7's ass
Na forza is poser
@@olavofernandes7286 your delusional mate 🤣 😂
@@jam201984 gran turismo 7 is getting better just need more updates 😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁 how are car models in forza?
@@olavofernandes7286 looking pretty sharp mate the whole thing is looking epic
You forgot to say at the beginning "PAID FOR BY PLAYSTATION AND GT7" they showed less and lied about raytracing. The graphics look like 2017. But you praised it. You are no longer credible.
This is another great example of a comment directly attacking me personally rather than any issue highlighted in the video.
@@TeamVVV nope. You praised GT7. To trick people into thinking it was close to flawless. I wish you pointed out lies and issues in that game 🤔
Again sad personal attacks, I'm always happy to discuss any specific aspect on any VVV video you disagree with.
my opinion don’t mean nothing to turn 10 studios better yet Microsoft! Forza has been the dominated platform for gamers for a long time now! Numbers don’t lie! That’s the only opinion they care for! Simcade is the money maker!!! You want simulation get a PC and a rig!!! 😂 turn 10 have a winning formula for the Forza series and that won’t change if the numbers don’t!!!! Let’s all Cheer for another groundbreaking Forza edition!!! Simulation haters/crowd moving it along and get lost!!!
Watch it. The Xbox fanboys only care about the graphics over the physics. Got to look better then anything on PS5. LOL